Is the idea of magic / wizard schools just fucking stupid? Does

No. It's just the logical conclusion to the idea of a sorcerer's apprentice.

>>50177878
No, but it makes magic less magical to make magic users borderline autists who can't relate to or function in the mundane world.

>>50177878
Is that you, antidice-kun?

>>50178007
Apparently, it's the product of a 17th century decision between a bunch of European mages to keep their world separate from the Muggle one, if only for their own safety and convenience. Kind of like the Treaty of Westphalia defining what a nation-state is.

>>50177878
No, but it does require the author to define what magic can and cannot do, which I personally think is a good thing.

>>50178092

I'll agree with this, more or less.

I don't want magic to be defined too deeply, but if I see a setting/system where magic has absolutely zero Hard Rules (preferably about what it cannot do), then I know it's 1) going to be a catch-all for whenever the author's feeling lazy and/or 2) overpoweringly broad, if not also an unwieldy behemoth to worldbuild around.

>>50177878
I generally tend to like a bit of a mixture. For example, the biggest power is a militant magocracy where one's magical capabilities are tantamout to one's power. However, magic isn't simply something that you can just read a book and perform -- there's a certain knack to it, a spark in one's blood that allows them to control the forces around them. So the nation is essentially led and divided up into ruling families who have intermarried over the centuries to increase the potency of their bloodlines.

However, just having the capacity does not mean that you have the skill to utilize it, and thus the nation's filled with myriad schools that educate the youth in mundane studies as well as the various schools of magic. In fact, the process of matriculation -- when a student signs their name on a university's roster -- is essentially the coming of age ritual for the people there.

Friendly reminder that Ilvermorny is racist and so is JKR.

>>50177878
It's actually genius because it introduces a relatable element into the setting. Pretty much everyone in the western world has gone to school.

>>50178145
This. The institution of a school the PC has visited, or a university where they lived or a master under whom they grew up is just an element that makes the PC interesting, and establishes a relationship that can be part of the story.

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Morgan le Fay learned magic at a nunnery. Clearly academia is the most efficient way to master magic.

I've used mage schools in settings before. Some where it's mandatory, and those who refuse are frowned upon by society, so they tend to try and either live far away from big towns and cities, or form underground societies. Magic wasn't regimented per se, but I was monitored.
In games where it wasn't compulsory attendance, people either went and trained under the schools masters, or hired their own tutors. if you didn't go to one of the colleges, and could hire a tutor, you were a folk mage who learned from someone in your village or taught yourself. While not exactly respected in the cities, they generally knew enough to save your ass if you were hurt.

it seems to be quite logical for people with similiar skills and abilities to get together and teach others how to control it. magic in most systems generally returns a consistent effect whenever you do a specific ritual, so it makes sense that people would study it to see how they can make it work

of course depends on the setting

>>50178092
t. Rollpllayer

>>50177878
I prefer the idea of mage colleges personally. If magic is the sort of thing that can be learned or taught in the slightest, then it stands to reason that there would be places for mages to gather and compare notes.

Even if magic does work a bit differently for each mage or if it is more of an art form than a real science, being able to discuss it among peers and note examples of the various ways magic can work is something likely to occur.

It's going to be a gathering of artists, philosophers, and scientists, all trying to interpret this thing they each only understand an aspect of.

What about a mage Republic of Letters?

I generally don't like settings where magic is common enough for magic users to organize into such massive institutions. A small coven of witches or a circle of druids is fine, but nothing close to Hogwarts scale and certainly nothing that's churning out level one wizards like it's a production line.

>>50177878
Is the idea of a military academy just fucking stupid? Does it make fighting less badass to boil everything down to technique and training?

>>50177878
I like having a decentralized network of wizards, the more advanced of which usually have money for facilities (often housed in towers, keeps, or manors to stay away from prying eyes), and they each train up to about a dozen apprentices or fellow-wizards at a time. You'd also have more obscure wizards who could only afford to have one to three apprentices working in the wizard's house. This is usually in exchange for the apprentices doing work like lab stuff, cleaning, copying tomes, or whatever the wizard needs. Apprentices are generally expected to provide for their own expenses (which often means a part-time job in addition), although wizards will often cover those for talented students who can't pay. Apprenticing is really hard and stressful given the workload, so only like 30-60% of apprentices even make it through the first six months, after which point they can actually begin to use the weakest magic.

Having that kind of system means that would-be magicians can have profoundly different experiences, repertoires, and worldviews based partly who they worked under, their background, and whether the apprentice succeeded or dropped out. Each wizard tower has its own quirks and focuses. One head-wizard might have gotten a reputation for magic potions, so he focuses his apprentices on magical alchemy, but is also a dick who his apprentices hate. Another might have been a huge badass warrior so his students come to him mainly for battle-magic, but is a chill guy who gives his apprentices relative freedom. And so on.

And then you have possibilities like the different relations that a master-wizard can have with colleagues and apprentices. Some masters might be abusive, others reasonable. Those wizards would have rivals and friends among other wizard-masters. Apprentices might have their own bonds and petty rivalries (often competing to be the master's heir), and could transfer from one wizard-tower to another and have to re-adjust to a new culture.

When 5e was first being floated and talked about using archetypes I was thinking something cool would be the idea of academic peer groups.

Basically, groups of wizards like a fraternity/soroity that focuses on a specific sort of magic research such that they have a club/organization based on it that persists and continues the research as well as being groups that help fund and take care of each other like a guild of sorts.

This way you could have some level of infamey or fame based one what group you were attached to.

"Oh, you're one of those freaks still continuing that line or research. Why don't you do something more respectable?"

If magic is so common that your merry band of adventurers has one (or two or three), then logically there has to be schools for them, at least in larger populaces. You can't have a huge percentage of the population know magic, and not one person suggest that "Hey, you seem pretty good at fireballs. If we could gather fellow magic users, train them to be better and..."

>>50179622
>If magic is so common that your merry band of adventurers has one (or two or three), then logically there has to be schools for them

How does that make sense? Adventurers are exceptional and do not represent the populations they come from.

>>50178007
In the case of the HP books, I feel that was either a gross oversight OR something pretty clever on JKR's part. You have a bunch of kids who may have little magical background (or in the case of the titular hero, going through early years with NO magical background) getting all wide-eyed at the thought of becoming wizards. But then they realize they have to actually go to SCHOOL and start lamenting all the studying and papers they have to do. This is a society where almost all medical and technological issues can be solved with magic, and the populace is too spoiled to even put effort into their craft. Thus, much of their society was run by childish organization. I may have hated homework as a student, but if was suddenly accepted into a wizardry school I'd put in my best damn effort to be valedictorian of that class.

Which is why the best solution for powerful magic users in many settings is still going to be apprenticeship. You can't just assembly line your wizards like we do our own students, especially when they're young brats who don't give a shit about structured education. The reason Voldemort got as powerful as he did was because he SOUGHT the knowledge for becoming a fucking lich. Even with all the "House" competition, there was little motivation for students to try and beat their peers, and so very few wizards/witches sought greatness. Hogwarts coddled its students way too much, and if it weren't for the semester-occurring threats of Voldemort and his minions there would be no sense of urgency to learn better arts.

>>50177878
not really, there's been similar concepts in mythology and folklore for ages, look up the concept of the Scholomance sometime

>>50179735
>magic is so great
>studying still sucks though
Anon, every field of study is like that. Loads of people, including those who ultimately enjoy their choices of study, still hate cramming for finals and showing up for early morning classes. This applies especially to young teenagers and college-age kids who don't have many choices in their education (they pretty much have to be in school taking many classes they don't enjoy) and have yet to fully grasp the importance of their learning.

Also, wizardry isn't such a big deal for most of those kids. Just about everyone they know can do magic, and they've seen it being performed their whole lives. In the wizarding world, it's a mundane prerequisite for adult life, not the fantastical unique thing that a muggle would perceive it as. It's like saying that we should all be captivated in wonder at the prospect of taking driving lessons or computer literacy classes.

>>50180303
studying itself is cancer for me, but I persist anyway because I truly do enjoy what im learning, and I end up reading up on material related to my lessob on my own because I have some child like wonder at learning new things. the bad stuff is more manageable, if you can still visualize what got you to pick your course in the first place

lectures are still crap though

>>50180303
Perhaps we should feel wonder at driving magical horseless carriages at death defying speeds, or sending messages instantly around the world. Magic tends to loose it's wonder when it becomes commonplace.

>>50180384
maybe we as a species should occasionally stop and appreciate what wondrous things we have created. we take it for granted we have all of it

>>50180384
And then they one up us with FLYING magical horseless carriages at death defying speeds and TELEPORTING.