/STG/ Star trek general

First for lonely OP.

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It's time to make Cardassia great again, folks!

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The Bajorans have got to be stopped.

They're bringing resistance fighters
They're bringing Federation sympathisers
They're criminals
And some of them, I presume, would make good labourers.

We need to build a Nor Station, and Bajor is going to pay for it!

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Don't you want to be on the right side of History, my child?

My opponent, Skrain Dukat, has said some pretty awful things about the prophets. And his followers love it. They cheer each time he says they're "just aliens" or "not really gods".

But then, his followers are like that. Half of them, I'd say, would fall into what I would call the Order of Pah Wraith sympathisers.

>>50158733
Oy vey, muh 10 million Bjorunz only it was more like 15 million.

We want reprashuns for the 20 million killed during the occupation.

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I love Bajoran women. I'm just attracted to them like a tachyon field. When I see a Bajoran woman I just have to own her.

And they let you. When you can have their entire family killed they let you do whatever you want. Buy em, dress em up, grab em by the earring. It's great.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ark_Royal

Because I said I would.

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>>50159868
Excellent. I've been waiting for this.

>>50160143
I'll add more to it later hopefully. I did minimal because at work.

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Did Star Fleet adopt the slipstream drives in the novel series?

>>50161727
Nice. I've never seen a full model of one of the museum ships before.

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Here's an amusing thing I just thought of, how would Enterprise have been different if it had used the ships/timeline from the Starfleet Museum instead of making it up as they went along?

Anyone got the beta material for Star Trek Adventures yet?

>>50158117

This is probably a stupid question, but why do torpedoes even have warheads in Star Trek? I mean, they can fire at greater than the speed of light. Even throwing a pound of sand at .9999c would probably destroy an entire planet. Now, I don't know what kind of wonky physics you need to get to FTL, but presumably that photon torpedo moving at 20-30 times the speed of light carries an awful amount of energy, planet busting amounts of energy, even if there's no warhead at all.

>>50162273
So that you don't have to directly hit something to damage/destroy it, and so that you can keep the projectile from just keeping on going for zillions of years until it hits something?

>>50162273
Torpedoes use the warp field of the firing ship when launched at warp. They don't go to warp when fired at sublight speeds.

Presumably, when fired at a planet at warp speed, the warp field probably collapses and the torpedo does same damage as regularly, or just disintegrates.

>>50162346
>and the torpedo does same damage as regularly
Which is still, like, 50 times the Tsar Bomba, right?

>>50162346
>Presumably, when fired at a planet at warp speed, the warp field probably collapses and the torpedo does same damage as regularly, or just disintegrates.


Why would it? I mean, presumably, if you're suicidal, you could ram a planet with a ship at warp speed. Why would a torpedo suddenly decelerate?

>>50162273
It's best in any sci-fi setting to assume that the achievable sublight speeds do NOT go particularly relativistic, and the FTL drives in question laugh in your face if you try to use them as FTL missiles.

>>50162401
>Which is still, like, 50 times the Tsar Bomba, right?

Something like that. I think Voyager mentioned that a photon torpedo could destroy a city in seconds.

Doesn't really gel with the screen depiction of ships getting hammered with numerous torpedoes and suffering some hull damage and exploding consoles, of course.

>>50162415
>Why would it? I mean, presumably, if you're suicidal, you could ram a planet with a ship at warp speed. Why would a torpedo suddenly decelerate?

Because in Star Trek, ships don't just go faster than light and keep going. They need a stable warp field to sustain the travel. A ship that loses warp capability drops out of warp. Same with a torpedo.

>>50162073
It probably would have been more like submarines in space. no viewscreen. Just visible sensors and primitive subspace sensors. Hunter-destroyers using low yield phasers and spacial torpedoes. Capital ships carrying a compliment of photon torpedoes to be deployed like ICBMs.

Sounds pretty fun actually.

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>>50162496
Remember that they only had nukes and laser beams back then.

>>50162537
So just Babylon 5 then? I'm still okay with that.

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>>50162073
Well, the whole format would have to be different.

SFM establishes that pre-romulan war the top speeds are fractions between warp 2 and 3, that the engines are giant fusion reactors not matter/anti-matter, and that for the most part it's still dealing with ships having to operate in fleets.

The ship is bigger, full of crewmen, slower, most time spent in travel and dealing with resupplying. Technical solutions to problems at a real minimum, akin to TOS. Transporters really not present rather than just not trusted, meaning a lot of travel by shuttle and bringing teams/tools with them down to planets they explore, establishing temporary bases rather than relying on being able to go back to the ship at will.

There'd be a real frontier feel to the whole affair, with even the close states requiring a lot of travel time to get to. Can't just nip back to Earth whenever required even if just operating in the local area.

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>>50162745
I-is that ship painted like a cow?

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>>50163501
It might be.

>>50159868
Nice. Thanks.

>>50158627
>>50158771
My favorite part about the Occupation? They killed fifteen million over a FIFTY year period. Three hundred thousand per year, and this was not a Pre-Warp civilization. They had several moons that are bajoraformed, and presumably off planet colonies, since they've been warping around since the 1500's. They had a VERY large population. In comparison, our entire planet has a little over two million per year.

Fifteen million. If anything, the Cardassians INCREASED life expectancy.

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>>50164861
Not necessarily. Trek has always cited anomalously low population numbers for non-human species whose hat isn't brutal overcrowding, and from what we've seen of Bajor, even its large metropoli pale in comparison to modern-day New York City.

Possibly most races just don't overpopulate like humans do. Also, consider that the 300,000 figure might be only those directly exterminated by Cardassian phasers, not counting industrial deaths.

>>50165072
The only source I can find for the population of Bajor is the Star Trek: Star Charts book. It states that Bajor has a population of 3.8 billion.

>>50165275
Well, there you go, then. A much, MUCH lower population. Fifteen million people is .39% of the population - that's just the number that was directly killed by the occupation forces. We don't know how many died in the invasion, or how many died due to secondary occupation issues, like restricted access to healthcare and food, but we do know that the Cardies were restricting the amount of food Bajorans could have. This would also have had a huge negative impact on Bajoran population growth.

Remember, the spoonheads weren't running extermination camps, they were running slave labor. Because for some reason, their best ideas are always "let's go enslave a bunch of people who are gonna hate us and want to kill us for it" rather than "hey, let's go build a bunch of robots and strip-mine the shit out of a bunch of asteroids and uninhabitable moons nobody gives a FUCK about!"

Is there a comparison between the various trek RPGs anywhere? Like which one does ship combat best, which one gives better character customization or whatever?

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Actually...

> Starfleet escapades you don't get to see in the show.
>> Time: Between the Scum Contact Incident and the reassignment of Commander Amanda Jung and Ensign Faith O'Mally to USS Ark Royal
>> USS Ambassador, NX-10521. First Officer Amanda Jung in command, as the Captain has taken leave of absence.

> A small Federation member race, the Evora, has called upon Starfleet to investigate a problem that appears to be becoming urgent. This small race was critically endangered in 2375 following an industrial disaster on their homeworld that virtually wiped them out, leaving a population of only 300,000,000 individuals; aware of the Federation thanks to contact with Ferengi traders for whom "The Prime Directive" was but a pesky non-issue, the Evora launched a crash program to develop Warp Drive in the hopes of making contact with the UFP and appealing for aid. They succeeded.
> 44 years later, with the assistance of the United Federation of Planets and massive population growth subsidies, the Evora's population has almost returned to 1,000,000,000. The Evora homeworld is still all but uninhabitable, and unsuited to containing the Evora's population, while the Evora Regency prefers to reclaim their home before striking out into the stars. The Evora are long-used to living in pressurized habitats on moons and space installations, and with the UFP's assistance they have some of the finest.
> The Evora are now attempting to expand outward from their homeworld, to claim the rimward portions of their solar system, but when they approach all the best asteroids and moons in the outer system, automated beacons spring to life, warning away any vessel which approaches. These beacons are not toothless, and fire warning shots across the bow of any vessel which approaches closer than they'd like; the Evora have thus far not tested them, and called for Starfleet to investigate the matter.

>> Thus arrives USS Ambassador, a sleek, older Starfleet Explorer - but an Explorer.

>>50165975
> USS Ambassador arrives on scene, takes political and military envoy from the Evora Regency aboard, warps into orbit of a gas giant.
>> Her commander, an albino from Brooklyn with a body full of non-Federation augmentations, is doing an admirable job maintaining her calm despite her nerves. She never asked for the responsibility of commanding a starship. It's exhilarating, but all-too terrifying for a career-minded manipulative bureaucrat, keenly aware of not just how her own career and life are potentially on the line here, but the lives of her shipmates if things go sour.
>>> Fortunately, the non-Federation augs in her body include quite a few that allow her some control over her body's responses, so she isn't jittering with nerves, sitting in the Big Seat and having the personal AI assistant, 'muse,' in her head constantly searching Starfleet regs to feed her lines and details.

> Ambassador's general sensors are orders of magnitude more powerful than those the Evora light vessels have. Their dedicated survey sensors are nothing to sneeze at, but aren't the right tools for identifying hostile vessels.
>> The 'beacon' in this case appears to a network of small-ish satellites, the size of a Starfleet Captain's Yacht, orbiting a gas giant's cloudy moon, not unlike Titan in the Sol system. They broadcast an automated alert that's gibberish to the Universal Translator.
>>> Cmdr. Jung orders Ambassador to approach to warning shot distance. As predicted, an energy beam, flourescent blue, lances out from the satellite. Ambassador, although shielded, was taking no evasive actions; it's clearly an intentional warning shot, not a piss-poor shot for effect.
>>> Ambassador backs off, commander requests analysis.

> Science Happens.
> cont.

>>50166175
>> Conclusions: The weapon is a coherent beam of Tetryon Plasma, not dissimilar to a disruptor or phaser. A number of minor races utilize these weapons, which are known to be able to skip from one shield facing to another, damaging all of a ship's shields.
>>> This particular energy signature is not known. Judging by its power output, even conservatively estimating a 25% power shot, Ambassador is far more than a match for the entire satellite network.
>> The Evora are unhappy that their system is being squatted, but don't issue any demands for Starfleet to summarily remove the drones violently.

>> Hailing Frequencies Open.
>> Same automaed beacon.
>> Universal Translator works.
>>> Simple enough message stating that this body has been claimed and the claimants demand the claim be respected.
>> No notification to the claimant's identity is disclosed.

>> Launch probe towards beacon. Warning shot is ignored. Subsequent shot fires for effect and destroys probe.
>> Shuttlecraft sent in slow, on attitude thrusters alone. Warning shot is heeded.
>> Finally, a small rock is sent towards the beacon, given a gentle push with a tractor beam. Rock is pulled into orbit with the probe, a robotic transport is dispatched from the surface. Rock is collected - 24 hrs later.
>>> IDEA!

>> The ship's sciences officer proposes that they send the freak.
> Cont.

>>50165559
I reckon the Cardassians thought they were helping the Bajorans. After all, they were a vulnerable world with relatively primitive tech. The Cardassians also lived in a society where total dedication to the state was expected and lauded. Their most beloved novel was named "The Never Ending Sacrifice" for god sake. So, seeing as they had annexed Bajor with little-to-no resistance, it was just assumed the the Bajorans would get with the program and endure a few decades of hardship in return for eventual integration into Cardassian society. Maybe even a role in administration, once more races were added to the Union.

When the Bajorans resisted, Cardassia responded as it would to a dissident movement anywhere else in the Union: an aggressive crackdown. This only pissed off the Bajorans more which, in turn, ramped up resistance. Ultimately both sides ended up hating each other so much that reconciliation was impossible. Hence the majority of casualties of the occupation happened in the latter half of it.


As to the vehement hatred that Kira seems to have for a relatively small number of deaths, I have a theory.

We assume that Bajor was unified before the occupation. But what if they weren't? We mostly hear of the atrocities in the Dahkur province. What if Dahkur was an individual state, one that resisted more than any other? What if, rather than collaborating like other Bajoran nations, Dahkur refused to surrender? When viewed as a world wide populace, 15 million is peanuts. But for a single nation to lose that number (or a significant portion of it) would definitely resonate more clearly.

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>>50166264
>> Ship's sciences head is promptly told off for referring to one of his subordinates as 'the freak,' and ordered to report to the brig to spend the rest of his duty shift in confinement.
>>> Technically within the vessel commander's prerogative, though possibly unwise as the Scienceshead is a good friend of the Captain.

>> Nevertheless, the officer in question, Ensign Faith O'Mally, is summoned to the briefing room, and briefed on the situation. She immediately volunteers, pointing out that her body is vacuum-hardened and she's rated for upwards of 336 hours exposed in proximity to a gas giant, and at least 96 hours on the surface of a Titan-like moon. She volunteers to go.
>>> Faith tools up, another rock is procured, Ensign O'Mally is dispatched on a rock. Rock is collected, robotic transport dispatched, duly arrives and collects the Snek.
>> Inside the transport, Faith goes to work, a Starfleet computer scientist with engineering cross-training, armed far, far more than just a toolbelt's worth of tools, loose inside a robotic transport.

>> Quickly hijacks the transport's controls, lets it continue on automatic to where it was going, lands at surface installation. Finds it to be full of Exocomps. Faith infiltrates the facility's computer network, discovers that there's no way in hell she's going to be able to execute commands without dozens of sapient synthetics going aggro on her, chooses a different tack of identifying herself and requesting to speak with what- or whom-ever operates this base.
>> Exocomps surround her, but despite having weapon tips, hold their fire; Faith holds her own, and puts down her weapon.
>>> Faiith is informed that these Exocomps grew tired of being studied by the Federation, misappropriated a Danube-class runabout (which they volunteer to return,) and made their escape.
> cont.

>>50166267
Or maybe the Bajorans just never had a world war style conflict? It seems relatively small to us, but considering their low population perhaps they had never seen death and suffering on that scale at all before. Maybe Bajor was a nice place unlike earth.

>>50166448
They certainly seemed to be a pacifist society before the occupation so that might work.

>>50166448
Going by the novels (I know) the Bajorans had a major Crusade/Holy War like clockwork every couple hundred years or so, and were basically large city states. So like Italy.

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>>50166436
> With the jig up and contact having been established, Faith assures the Exocomps (who have no leader, governing their group as a pure collectivist democracy,) that Starfleet has no intention of violently removing them, but points out that they are squatting in another race's home system.
>> The Exocomps are aware of this; they arrived in 2370, five years before the Evora had Warp Drive. They considered revealing themselves to the Evora, but chose not to commit what the Federation might view as a Prime Directive breach and thus, grounds to remove them. Then the Evora achieved Warp Drive and their very first act was to seek the Federation, whom the Exocomps believed themselves to be fugitive from, so they remained quiet.
>> Ambassador is contacted, invited to orbit freely and retrieve their crewwoman. Faith O'Mally is beamed back aboard, and the Evora and Exocomps are formally introduced to one another. The military envoy is irate at the squatting, but quickly shut down by the Regent's diplomatic envoy, who opens negotiations with the Exocomps to recognize their sapience and invite them to consider formalizing their polity and working out a treaty of shared territory in the Evora's home system, or else to join the Evora Regency as full citizens.

> USS Ambassador lives up to her name, her conference rooms play host to mature, intelligent and thoughtful diplomatic discussions during which no Starfleet personnel need do anything more taxing than providing refreshments.
>> Everybody gets to warp home happily, with the newly-coined Exocomp Consensus and the Evora Regency hammering out details on the mutual exploration and exploitation of the Evora home system. Exocomps are more than happy to work in environments humanoids can't tolerate without hardsuits, after all, and the Evora offer diplomatic protection and legitimacy.
>> All's well that ends well.

>>50165072
That's actually a good point. We're apparantly the most fecund race in the quadrant, with only the Jem Hadar being made faster. Hell, we actually had a worldwide nuclear war, and have populated the entirety of the Federation in less time and with more people than the Klingon Empire. Maybe that's why everyone's so resentful, we're the equivalent of space rabbits in Space Australia.

>>50166267
>As to the vehement hatred that Kira seems to have for a relatively small number of deaths, I have a theory.
>We assume that Bajor was unified before the occupation. But what if they weren't? We mostly hear of the atrocities in the Dahkur province. What if Dahkur was an individual state, one that resisted more than any other? What if, rather than collaborating like other Bajoran nations, Dahkur refused to surrender? When viewed as a world wide populace, 15 million is peanuts. But for a single nation to lose that number (or a significant portion of it) would definitely resonate more clearly.

This would seem to be supported by >>50166512
Even if we assume that Dahkur was really, really large - no, we'll make her FUCKING GARGANTUAN, giving her the same proportion of Bajor's 3.8b population that the PRC (1.381b) has of Earth's present-day population (7.5b,) then Dahkur has 18.41% of Bajor's entire population.
That yields a total of 699,580,000 Bajorans in Fightin' Dahkar Province, of which we are told the Cardassians exterminated - directly murdered, that is, not including deaths from other sources - 15,000,000.
> That's 2.14% of the population!
Imagine taking every ten-thousand random Bajorans in Dahkur, and shoot 214 of them. That's whole villages wiped out.
To put that in perspective, picture a packed-to-the-cheap-seats game at Michigan Stadium. 115,109 people attend to watch a bunch of sweaty men throw around a pigskin. 2,463 (and a third) of those people aren't leaving that stadium alive, and this isn't counting the ones who get raped, tortured, and casually brutalized.

>>50158117
Holy shit, I've just realized how friggin' cool this thread's intro image is. Does anybody read weeaboo and can tell us what that says?

>>50158117
>>50166784

http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9945633-star-trek-online%3A-steel-and-karma

Hah! I don't know what the page caption says, but this is actually a pretty good, very short story.

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Hey, STO players, how badly did they shit STO up since like, 2010?

I just saw this shit: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10238603-lifetime-subscription-sale

I'll be fucked in the ass (by a dude, not a futa or a chick with a dildo,) before I'll subscribe to a pay-to-win went-free MMO... But $100 for EVERYTHING is only ~$10 worse than the average AAA release + Season Pass, and it comes with an allowance of 500 "Zen" a month, which I assume is the paystore currency they're using these days.

So, would you guys say that's a good deal, or not a good deal?

>>50166634
Well look at us compared to earth creatures, is there any creature of our size with a better population?

>>50167054
Also, can you put diplomacy-granted boffs in Starfleet uniforms now? I mean, I like my sexy, sexy Orion fabrications engineer, but...

Alternatively, can you get Orions in Starfleet now?

>>50167054
It's 199.99, not 99.99. It's an okay deal if you expect to play a lot, and want the gimmicks.

>>50167123
It's on sale for $100 until November 23rd.

>>50167054

It's a decent deal, in that you can purchase some of the basic services, get two races no one else can play, and have access to the Veteran starships out of the gate (the Chimera and the Manticore - the Manticore is T6. Both are good ships capable of decent DPS).

With the split between the ground and space traits, the skill system revamp, the specialization system for post 50 leveling, and the new graphical update... Things are looking okay.

However, the power creep is real, and the $199 price tag is still a lot for a game if you're not planning on playing a lot.

>>50167142

Not on PC. Take a look at that link again.

>>50167118

I don't think so. You can't play as Orions in Starfleet, unfortunately.

>>50167142
"We are pleased to announce a sale on Lifetime Subscriptions from now until November 23rd, 2016 at 10am PST, bringing the price down by $100 to $199.99!"

That's not what that says. And looking at the subscription page, it's 199.99

>>50167054
Well, here's the list of stuff you get for subscribing.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Lifetime_subscription#Benefits

And these.

http://sto.gamepedia.com/Veteran_Rewards

As for is it worth it?
Well, story content is pretty ok until we hit the delta rising territory.
After that it starts going all over the place with most of delta rising being shit, the iconian war starting up promisingly and building up towards a shitty ending and then we have a time war, which is as fun as youd imagine it.

End game stuff isn't necessary, but all of those perks sound pretty tasty to me (then again im a fucking slave who has fallen to the eternal grind, although currently im grinding just to get our fleet a TOS era popsicle factory in space).

>>50167118
Not to my knowledge.

>>50167169
Ah. I did indeed misread that.

Yeaaaaaaah, it's probably not worth it at that price.

>>50162235
Not yet. They're waiting to have that playtest material cleared by CBS

>>50167296
That could take a while.

>>50167054
STO is way better than it was back then. Going F2P was definitely for the better. Lots of power creep, if you don't like that. At this point I wouldn't necessarily get a lifetime (I got one a few years ago), as I don't know how long the game will last before it goes into zombie mode (like Champions). Just the ships alone would probably be $110, keep that in mind.

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Bump

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>>50170783
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that doesn't like the TOS MU uniforms. I just hate the short tank look. Same for the ENT MU uniforms, but to a much lesser degree.

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Andorian native to cold dressing warmer than Vulcan native to warm.

>>50170869
Could be that the Andorian's the only one who gives a damn about practicality and/or modesty? Or that the Vulcan woman is a strict adherent to regulations, which combined with her powerful metabolism, mean that technically, she doesn't need to dress any more modestly than that in that weather.

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So what happened to all the Borg that got liberated?

>>50171584
That's a person-by-person issue. How they deal with liberation and reintegration into society depends on how they are received and how much of their past life they remember.

>>50172615
Also how long they were Borgified, and how much autonomy they were given.

Jean-Luc Picard, for instance, wasn't drowned out by the Collective because the Queen felt he was more valuable as a partly-autonomous unit with individuality, and he was only Borg for a short time. So he made more-or-less a full recovery.

Seven of 36DD, on the other hand, was Borged at a very young age, to the point that she actually rejected the first opportunity she had to reject the Collective, going so far as to sabotage the others' attempts to get free, too. Her "recovery" was difficult, as the majority of her personality was Borg. Even after she fully turned from the Collective, she retained a lot of Borg mentality, which led to her clashing with the other Voyager crew on a lot of occasions.

I would imagine that a lot of ex-Borg pine for some degree of collectivism, but not enforced, all-voices-as-one hivemind collectivism. I'd also expect that they're either going to fall into two camps: those who are abjectly horrified at the augmentations, and insist they all be removed even if it leaves them, say, without a limb, or on lifelong life support, and those who are all for augmentations and would rather have some that are low-profile and don't itch.

Honestly, I'd expect the latter to be some of the leading champions of transhumanism (transoriginism?) in Trek.

Thread theme?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH8lvwXx_Y8

>>50172726
That's not bad, but I think it should be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh8KDD4FsUk

It's Trek, Jim... But not as we know it.

>>50162273
They don't fire torpedoes during warp in any of the series precisely to avoid that discussion.

In the alternate reality a.k.a. JJTrek, there was that Dreadnaught class ship that could fire weapons during warp. The explanation is that the 'sci-' part took a backseat in those films, focusing instead on what the millenial audience finds entertaining. In anycase, I wouldn't worry about it too much, because if it really bothers you, you can always make your own story/world/setting/franchise where starships are armed with gravel and sand projectiles launched at relativistic speeds.

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>>50172872
>They don't fire torpedoes during warp in any of the series

This is so wrong I can't believe you've actually watched any of it.

>>50172956
DEJA VU

>>50172956
NACELLA DRIFTING!

>>50172956
I want off Mr Gowron's wild ride

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>>50174890
Mr Gowron says

THE RIDE NEVER ENDS

>>50174934
Robert O'Reilly has the best of all possible Klingon faces. Only J.G. Hertzler beats him, and that's just because his Martok voice is 10/10.

>>50172670
But how long can a disconnected drone among only other disconnected drones survive on a planet of a Cube without access to fresh food and such things?

There could have been trillions of deaths from this alone.

>>50166532
Savin it for the 1d4chan page.

So much stuff to go through and I am not good at this.

>>50175014
Thanks. I archived the last two threads on sup/tg/ just so the stories wouldn't be lost because I didn't threadcap them.

Here, have some fucking awesome Trek cover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_z2nbcySC4

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>>50174934
Only a fool stands before the wind, Gowron.

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>>50176197
Indeed, only a fool stands before a hurricane, a typhoon. However, lesser winds can be conquered.

Cowardice is retreating in the face of all winds; folly is standing before the hurricane.
Wisdom is telling winds that can be resisted from winds that cannot be.

Thus:
> The meek who value safety above all else retreat in the face of even a stiff breeze.
> The fool stands before the hurricane and the typhoon.
> The wise stand fast before winds that can be conquered, and retreat from winds that cannot be.

>>50162537
yeah the only problem is that once someone creates the deflector disc that you're pretty fucked because that will just stop your lasers cold. The nukes may still work but that's no guarantee they would be as effective since most of the damage may be blocked by the deflector field.

>>50176383
Not to mention it can be jury rigged to solve any problem.

>>50176383
>>50177014
Maybe that was the big breakthrough that won the war for Earth. The Romulans started off the war with better weapons and better warp capability but ended up having to sue for peace after half of their arsenal became redundant.

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>>50177102
>>50176383

Given the pic/discussion is specifically the SFM continuity, no, why they won is pretty clearly laid out.

Also the ships already had navigational deflectors, the emitter is behind the black tip.

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>>50177192
Will someone please tell me what the sodding hell this "Starfleet Museum" shit is and where it came from and why the only thing that looks even VAGUELY Trek-like is the Daedalus?

Pictured: actually Star Trek, not a giant spaceborn potato/dildo/potato-dildo.

>>50177507
Can you not just google the words star fleet museum? Seriously you can literally just ask for it if you're on a phone these days, no typing required.

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>>50174973
>>50171584
>>50172615
>>50172670
Well, if you take really high budget fanfic into account. The boy Borg, Icheb got to Earth. Then was dicked over by Sector 31 and afterwards went on the run and became a mercenary/raider.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE2Wgop9VLM

>>50174934

CAN IT BE YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD THE OPERA THAT TELLS THE TALE OF OUR FAMILY'S HOUSE?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FjzFHyjhVI

>>50177560
That would require that I give enough of a fuck about it to actually want to go and read up on it myself; I do not.

I give just enough of a fuck about it to be annoyed at seeing space dildos shitting up my Trek threads, but not sufficiently annoyed that I WON'T listen to what an anon who actually gives more than a fuck about it tell me about why it's the greatest thing ever and I should care about space dildos instead of the NX-01 Enterprise and other ship designs that are from on-screen canon.

It's the diet coke of not-giving-a-fuck. There's a slight fuck - a partial fuck given. A quick fingerbanging, you might say.

>>50179299
Pretty much, the starfleet museum is fanfic tier shit some asshole made up that people masturbate too even though nothing about it is startrek.

>>50176197
Fuck off you cloned mockery

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>>50179415
Thank you.

>>50177560
Was that so hard? Really?


Here, have a nice-looking b-canon ship in turn.

>>50167054

Had a lifetime sub since live. After getting routinely fucked out of zen on the monthly allowance, customer service dosn't have a record of when your allowances are supposed to come.

So what I'm saying is if you you play all the time and keep track of it you'll probably be fine, but if you only play every few months you're going to get jewed.

Also 500 is jack shit and with the new admirality system if you don't have a bunch of lockbox ships already you're just wasting time going back.

They made a lot of improvements and then shit all over it.

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>>50180341
That's kind of disappointing to hear. So is it worth it to play STO in the FTP mode worth it at all if you know? I could play every so often but don't want to grind like crazy get for a decent ship. And I kind of want to play pic related in a game.

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we dead?

>>50179894
>refit
There's no evidence that the Akula, or any of the other Film era ships were refits. While it's fair to say that a couple of the classes may have existed around TOS and then received an up-gunning, I don't imagine that the entire Starfleet is 30+ years old. Some of those designs have to be new.

>>50181965
Fact is, nobody really knows, so may as well call it "refit" to fit in with the TOS Movie-era ships.

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Cutest tactical escort ship passing through.

>>50182791
Wooof, you don't believe in Anti-Aliasing, do you?

Still, that is kinda cute. KINDA. Cute.

Not as cute as the crab-claw escort, mind you. But still kinda cute.

>>50166175
GYAAAAH how did I screw that up? Amanda's from FLUSHING, not Brooklyn.

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>>50182797
Tacticute.

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> USS Ark Royal returning to the interior of the Federation, to receive some shipyard loving following successfully locating and demolishing a Ferengi corsair haven which was using bootleg, lost and surplussed Starfleet vessels to attack outlying races, letting the UFP take the heat for their piracy.

> Lt. Kiryuin Satsuki leading tactical analysis team in the tactical analyst theatre, a small amphitheater-shaped room around a holo-tank.
>> For once, everyone's caught up on everything. All of Ark Royal's recent encounters have been thoroughly analyzed and the information therefrom disseminated. The Tactical Chief was pleased to hear that his shooting, 74% of the time, exceeds the computer's best recommendations when given the amount of time to create a firing solution that he had, and equals the computer's 15% of the remaining 26% of the time.
>>> Partly this is due to the Angry Discowhale's extremely ad-hoc beam array network, leaving the computer forced to calculate the variables on many different weapon systems individually on the fly, but it can't all be attributed to that; the man is a damn good shot, and Ark Royal is the better for having a Klingon riding shotgun.
>>>> Satsuki probably should order the Tactical staff to stop using the moniker "Angry Discowhale" to refer to the Ark Royal when she flies in beams blazing, but she finds it funny so she won't.
>> Still, she can't let these people get bored. Bored tactical officers start talking to bored engineers and scientists, and then Mad Science happens. Mad Science is reserved for Lieutenants and above, and their personal friends and family.

> Cont.

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>>50183033

> Fortunately, she found inspiration in the refit dock that Ark Royal is currently holding station by, with a ship with a very familiar name. She has a way to keep idle hands constructively focused.
>> Lieutenant?
>> Yes, Ensign?
>> Is it true that ship was named for your sister?
> Satsuki smiles, as the question brings back memories - memories long-past, of donating her old scabbards and replicas of her blades, and long-before-then memories of a bloodsoaked battle aboard a then-important space station, katana and wakizashi meeting bat'leth and mek'leth head-on.
>> You tell me, Ensign.
>>> Loknar-clas USS Kiryuin Ryuko, NCC-2786

> Silence.
>> Regardless, I have a tactical exercise for you. Analyze the Loknar-class specifications, determine its potential in today's combat environment.
>> Lieutenant, that's not very hard. It's the same vintage as the Miranda. So, it could potentially be refit into a light-duty rearguard vessel that could serve as ablative meat for a real starship, but would quickly be crushed on its own.
>>> Issue The Thin Smile at the Ensign. He done fucked up and knows it.

>> A starship that size could easily carry a crew of 20-100 in this day and age, depending on how much automation you install, whether you provide it with extra facilities, and whether or not it's carrying extra security personnel to serve as boarding/counter-boarding marines. Do you want to tell those 20-100 Starfleet officers their lives and the ship they're proud to serve on aren't a "real" starship, and serve only as ablative armor for a ship that is worthy, Ensign?
>>> Deer-just-before-the-arrow-is-loosed look meets her. He knows that punitive reassignment to just such a vessel is now on the table.
>>>> Can see in his eyes that he's calculating his average life expectancy on a century-old refit versus aboard Ark Royal.

>> Now, I have a task for you. You've seen what a Loknar-class looks like. Cast your gaze to the following. This is an Abbé-class.
> Cont.

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>>50183103
>> And I'm sure you all know what an Akula looks like, right?
>> Your task, ladies, gentlemen, herms, neuters and other, is to analyze these classes. Gain an understanding of the roles they were engineered for, the war they were built to fight.
>> To comprehend the differences between that war, and the conflicts we've had most recently -
>> And thus, to gain an appreciation of how the power of these vessels - and make no mistake, ladies and gentlemen, these were and remain powerful vessels - can be made fit for service again, brought out of mothballs to serve the Federation once more. Yes?

>> Lieutenant, this vessel was named after you.
> Satsuki examines the name on the hull of the holographic Abbé; USS Kiryuin Satsuki. She smiles.
>> Yes. It was. If you board this vessel and look under her dedication plaque, you'll find a sword stand with a Daisho very much identical to the one I wear. The blades are replicas; the scabbards were mine a century ago.
>> If exploring the history of these vessels helps you connect to the classes and cease to see them as flying ablative armor, by all means do so.
>> Regardless, you have time to spend on this project: one week, barring other duties coming up. I expect a full report on how these vessels might be utilized in the modern era.
>> Thinking outside the box is encouraged; however, using them as automated warp-speed megatorpedoes stuffed to the hull with antimatter is not.
>> Nor is assigning them as piloted kamikaze vessels, and if you had that thought you should be ashamed of yourself; nor is writing them off as suicidally-reckless escorts for modern ships permitted.
>>> Smile the Thin Smile again.
>> Seperate into three teams; you're all nominally adults, you should be able to do so on your own initiative. One team takes a hypothetical Abbé, one an Akula, and one the Loknar. Assume a task group consisting of one vessel of each of those classes. Good luck.

> That should keep them busy inna holodeck for a week.

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One thing I don't get about the whole USS Ark Royal thing:

Where's the risk?
Seriously, when are they ever at risk of destruction or even just failure (even just on a personal level) to complete a mission? Do you have to pull a TOS and make every other big bad some sort of godlike entity to actually pose a threat? What can't they just badass their way through?

Genuine question btw.

>>50184419
Barclay built the Event Horizon engine.

Half the problems the ship encounter are home made.

The other half are external.

A percentage f the external threats are from Starfleet hierarchy or UFP bureaucracy.

>>50184419
>Do you have to pull a TOS and make every other big bad some sort of godlike entity to actually pose a threat?
That was a TNG thing, TOS threw klingons at them as the legitimate threat. The godlike entities were the shit yourself threats.

>>50184697

There are fewer episodes in TOS featuring klingons than there are episodes featuring godlike beings.

Godlike Beings

>Where No Man Has Gone Before
>Charlie X
>The Squire of Gothos
>Errand of Mercy
>The City on the Edge of Forever
>Who Mourns for Adonais?
>Metamorphosis
>The Gamesters of Triskelion
>Plato's Stepchildren

Klingons

>Errand of Mercy
>A Private Little War
>The Day of the Dove
>The Trouble with Tribbles

Gene really liked his god-like beings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lHgbbM9pu4

>>50184828
Roddenberry: Classic Tipping.

>>50180388
three times a year, for the Summer, Christmas, and Anneversary Holiday events they give away a top tier ship if you do the event's daily mission durring the event enough times, so technicaly you don't need to drop any money for that at least.

Now getting the top tier version of a ship you actualy want on the other hand, that you would have to drp money or grind dilithium to trade for Zen, the cash shop currency.

That said you should be okay with just the free ships for most of the story content.

>>50184419
Even for a ship as large and powerful as Ark Royal, with its fighter complement, taking out, say, a pirate port full of ships that will fight back is no easy task; hence the ship putting into spacedock.

Also, hostile boarding parties are a weekly thing. Folk get hurt and sometimes killed during those, and it's not always the bad guys.

That having been said, a lot of their drama and trouble would be internal; Dave having a particularly bad day and holing up in one of the warp nacelles and fortifying it, for instance; members of the crew damn-near or actually coming to blows over some difference of opinion or other, etc.

And of course, there's random space bullshit that can disable a ship no matter how large it is; half of the TNG plots, for instance.

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>Latest mission in STO in a nutshell
>Except for the klink being a Lukari captain
>And actually, she didn't even kill anyone, it was all me and two of my bridge officers going around breach and clearing an ancient space station

>>50187403
>Klingon

Shit, forgot what this picture looked like and only noticed the Ferengi.
Disregard everything.

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>>50187477
It's too late, I've seen everything.

>>50181965
>>50182024
I'm of the camp that calling the Enterprise post TMP a "refit" is a disservice to how much work was actually done to the ship. It's a new Class, and calling it the Constitution Refit makes it sound like it's a simple Block III or IV situation.

>>50187708
It is just a refit, literally in the case of the Ent (and maybe the Ent-A, if the Yorktown story is to be believed). They stuck on new bits, especially the engines, and changed the paint, but that still counts as a refit. I have, however, seen it referred to as the Enterprise-class.

>>50187708
It IS just a Block IV situation. A drastic refit, but a refit nonetheless.

>>50184828
It's not like TNG didn't have a lot of those episodes themselves but the reactions of the crew were so just not human. They really became too passive aggressive and didn't show any real fear or humility that they were fucking with shit they shouldn't be trying to piss off. The only time that you see them shitting themselves is when Q really wants to teach them that they are not hot shit. And that's the first time we are introduced to the Borg and the captain had to beg to be saved. And any thime after that was deus ex all the way whenever the Borg showed up again which was TOTAL BULLSHIT EVERYTIME!!! The Borg should not have been that easy to beat but of course if the Borg won that's kind of the end of the show. BUT IT WAS STILL BULLSHIT HOW THEY OVERCOME THE BORG EVERY TIME AFTER THEY FIRST SHOW UP!

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So... Who remembers this?

>>50187670
As much as I love the Lancaster, I would love to see one edited with the saucer of the Al-Burak for some super carrier action.

>>50189053
I don't know Trek doesn't like the setting to do space carrier type action. Since you have such heavy and accurate firepower from most line ships in the setting. Being a fighter jock sounds like you have a death wish. I'm guessing drone spam would be better but are there any races in the setting that do that as their stick. How tough are fighters in the Trek setting anyway? Most shuttle craft they show in most series seem to fold in a bit of turbulent space weather. I can't really see them holding up well in a real space battle between capital ships.

>>50177192
God Damn you could throw these bitches into Diaspora and Albedo pretty easy.

>>50190357
>How tough are fighters in the Trek setting anyway?
Starfleet Museum is a fanon universe and works in a slightly different way, fighters seem to do relatively well.

In the Starfleet Battles Universe they go down pretty hard to anyone with proper defenses but can tear people up if they can't stop them, just like real fighters and bombers.

As for canon, they had fighters in the dominion war (that seemed more the size of a PT boat equivalent) that did pretty good in battle. They got shot down less than the Mirandas at least.

>>50190629
I do.

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>>50191048
Is there any place in 'canon' that fighters are used in the setting? And I don't mean alien shit like you sometimes see in DS9 or the other series? I want novels and series where these Star Fleet fighters get used. Because fan wank stuff doesn't really hold any weight with me. And the Delta Flyer doesn't count it's an up gunned shuttle. Fighters for Star fleet is a joke until I see some canon proof to the counter that they aren't.

>>50192133
Later in DS9 we see Peregrine Fighters deployed by Starfleet in the Dominion War.

>>50192133
Starfleet Battles/Starfleet Command. Fighters are terrifyingly dangerous little glass cannons. Anyone with proper point defenses, or anyone with the time and reaction speed to dedicate primary phasers to killing them will shred them.

Anyone who fails to do so will be promptly murderlized.

>>50192133
There are literally Federation fighters in DS9. Watch the damn show.

>>50188868
Don't know what it is. Please, anon, enlighten us.

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>>50182791
>>50182797
And that's why I edit pictures. I'm running STO on a crock-of-shit laptop so unedited screenshots look terrible.

>>50192133
Read the post you linked, three seperate universes, one fanon and two canon were described.

>>50193300
Damn that's pretty nice

>>50180388
>>50185790

If you treat it as a free game, it's very good.

>>50167118
Only using 'alien' as a race - no official orions.

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>>50193275
That's ShipEdit. It's a modding program that was made to allow for modding of Starfleet Command II: Empires at War.

I'm in the middle of a project to revise all the Federation starships to my liking.
Right there is me revising the F-BCJ, the New Jersey class Battlecruiser (Excelsior variant,) into a badass dedicated missile boat, capable of tossing out the hard cap of missiles from her hull.

>>50193664
That's kinda stupid, since even in STO they acknowledge that most Orions are, in fact, UFP citizens.

>>50193926

I suspect it's so that they can keep Orion sexiness entirely on the kDF side

>>50193964
That’s such craaaaaaaaaaaap. It's extra stupid since you can just, you know, /make/ one.

>>50193926
>That's kinda stupid, since even in STO they acknowledge that most Orions are, in fact, UFP citizens.
Wouldn't that make it hard (no pun intended) for other UFP citizens to be around them especially the females? Or is there a canon excuse that lets this be ok?

>>50194941

First: I wonder how gay/bi/pansexual ladies and members of hermaphrodite races respond to Orion pheromones?
Second: I'd presume that it's relatively easy to pharmaceutically deactivate the pheromones, or dispense an aerosol counteragent from some kind of collar-mounted thingy.
Third: Fun times consist of taking a two-week voyage in a Danube runabout/captain's yacht/Delta Flyer, just you, an Orion grill, and no pheromone control.

>>50194237

I agree completely

>>50193300
PROBERT/10

What is more advantageous to have; A galaxy class ship or the equivalent weight in runabouts?

>>50197218
Id go for a Sovereign myself.

But if it absolutely must be either or, then i suppose the Runabouts.
At least those don't have a small crew of little children on them.
Just imagine it, several decks forbidden for all intelligent life due to them having the nursery on them and all of the inhabitants of that said nursery.
And civilians and their problems like "can we land on that planet for a short walk?", "Could we stop by that space station for some groceries?" and "Look, we just want to have a festival and the engineer running hydrophonics banned us from there, so you better find a planet or else we will clog the ships toilets again!".

Are there any known mechanical protections from being scanned by telepaths in canon/or at least in the novels?

Surely there's some technobabble'd implant or shield that people can stick to their brains to at least block stuff the way the Ferengi and similar ones do?

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>>50197459
Sticking stuff in your brain for a practical and understandable reason?

You mean trying to improve yourself in a tangible way?

HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU ARE LITERALLY THE BORG!! No good can come of this meddling with the natural order of things. You mark my words the moment, the very moment, somebody suggests physically improving or adapting the natural body for a change in the environment they are automatically messing with things that they can't possibly understand and are super evil beyond redemption.

>>50197542

How about if it came in the form of a magic armband or one of those plasters with lights on it that doctors love?

>>50197592
That's fine so long as it's a Starfleet trained blue shirt.

If it's anyone else doing it then they are obviously developing psy blockers, unperfected psy blockers with possible health consequences, for nefarious bastards to evade detection by totally innocent over hearing of you most private thoughts by total accident.

If its a blue shirt doing it the patients are pioneers in medical technology risking their all in the noble effort of developing personal freedoms and security to thwart evil psychics from intentionally violating your privacy.

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>>50197459
I'm sure you can make a space magic field that will block telepaths.
Failing that, you just need a disciplined mind.

>>50188868
WHO CODED THIS FUCKING GAME!?

> shiplist.txt
>> Actually a spreadsheet; can be modified by the purpose-built ShipEdit program, or Excel, Open/LibreOffice Calc, etc.
>>> You have to use both; a spreadsheet to manage large-scale batch modifications, ShipEdit for sanity and UI purposes.
>>> Needs to be present in two locations, both of which must be identical or the game decides to pull the data from either one at random.
>>> Contains a column for ship names that contains the full name displayed for the ship class in-game.
>>>> Does not actually provide the string that is displayed in-game.
>>>> Game only reads the first 15 characters; "Fast Battlecruiser" is parsed as "Fast Battlecrui"
>>>>> The parsed 15 characters "Fast Battlecrui" are then matched to an entry in strings.txt
>>>>>> The matched entry: "Fast Battlecruiser"

Why? By the PROPHETS, whyyyyyy?!
And more importantly, why not make it obvious in shiplist.txt with something like "F-BCE_classString" or something?


I will not be defeated by coding more than half as old as I am.
Mine is the keyboard that shall pierce these heavens!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKIKzuTwP6k

>>50198733
>Why? By the PROPHETS, whyyyyyy?!
Because it's a quick and dirty tool to leverage variable/memory exploits from some CSVs.

Remember trainers for Diablo?

>>50195679
Is tat a good thing or...?

>>50200095
>>Why? By the PROPHETS, whyyyyyy?!
>Because it's a quick and dirty tool to leverage variable/memory exploits from some CSVs.

I actually had a programmer friend of mine explain this to me after I told him about this. It's madness. It's like gazing into the void and having the void gaze back.

I now see why programmers drink. They don't make insane calls because they're drunk.
They get drunk because entirely reasonable choices lead to absurd and retarded outcomes that, when looked at, lead to what the fuckery.

>Remember trainers for Diablo?
I don't actually, and for that perhaps I should be very, very thankful.

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tfw can't afford to spend all my dollerydoos on starships right now

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>>50200215
>I don't actually, and for that perhaps I should be very, very thankful.
They were a little better put together than this, and benefited from people coming up with pre-generated inputs. An example item it could easily generate was a ring that gave +255 to all stats.

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>>50200161
Gee, I wonder.

>>50200631
>yes or no answer
>chooses snark

For the record I quite like the alternate Ambassador

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>>50201259
You mean >>50165975 and pic related?

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Pondering cobbling together a SFM romulan war wargame for a bit of mental exercise, any suggestions as to what to look at for inspiration in terms of game system? Other than SFB that is because I don't intend to go down the full simulation route, I've not got all year to sit and jiggle warp factors over time of grid spaces in order to accommodate fighting that goes from sublight to warp 4 and a bit, where missile ranges are listed in AU and fights roll across a solar system.
Think the fighting in Balance Of Terror except without the invisibility, and a few more ships as they fly about all over the area rather than the times where everyone faces off like cowboys in a western.
I figure a bit more simple, not quite BF:G abstract but at least, I dunno, Just spitballin' here.

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So how advanced is medical science in the UFP during the TNG era? I would think that if you lost any limbs or a eye in that future, it would be routine to have new ones grown/3D printed and just sewn on or more likely medic laser fused to where your old stuff used to be. The thing with Geordi's visor was just a gimmick he should have just had cloned eyes and been done with it in reality. Hell, they made Worf a fucking new spine in an episode. You should have practical immortal at the tech level of the TNG era.

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>>50205347
This advanced.

>>50205347
In one episode they created a new breed of human that was clinically immortal, grew to maturity in a few years, highly intelligent, immune to all known diseases, stronger, faster, more durable, telepathic and telekinetic but with none of the psycopathic tendencies of previous augments.

It was a ditched project because their immune systems killed any old style human they came into contact with.

Given the Starfleet prejudiced against any form of genetic engineering it can be assumed that any attempts to fix the problem were not permitted because racial purity and all genetic engineering is EVIL™.

And yes, if the UFP consistently applied their shit the average citizen would be a near immortal super man living in a hyper advanced utopia like almost-gods.

Does anyone have any art of female vulcans that's not in science/medical colours?

>>50205347
>So how advanced is medical science in the UFP during the TNG era?

Easy and rapid reversal of any injury that's not fatal. When they need somebody to have a disease for plot reasons, they need to come up with an imaginary one because all the real ones were already cured.

My favorite detail is in ST4 where Bones just gives some granny a pill and she grows a new kidney. And that was in TOS era.

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>>50206985

>>50207107
Just because they've been drawn on doesn't make them art.

Good call otherwise

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Bumping.

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>>50211285
Why are the TOS era ships just so beautiful?

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>>50211311
Probably something math related.

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Took a while for the TOS style to grow on me, I think it worked when finally people could finally render the ships with a decent amount of lighting effects going on, in the old cgi with flat lighting they don't really look all that good, because the lack of surface detail really doesn't hold up without shadows and the like.

>>50211311
Because although they have a measure of elegance they look ships rather than a collage students modern art project.

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>>50211449
Amen to that.

>>50211311
They explode real pretty

>>50205384
Oh, sorry, what was that mister LTJG? Did you just sass not only a Commander, but your direct superior and Chief Medical Officer? Good luck getting your career back, have fun being put on flu shot duty forever.

>>50176197
I forget, who is this guy?

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>>50214457
Ah it's Pulaski, she probably runs things a bit rough-and-read with a high-banter crew; she can take it, she can deal it.

>tfw would rather have had her the entire rest of TNG than Crusher
>tfw she was never mentioned again

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>>50214604
I see what you did there.

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Some of you shipfags might like this.

>>50166958
thank you friend

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>>50214624
>TFW she was a Star Trek hottie in TOS.

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>>50216004
Damn right she was.

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>>50216063
>TFW I'm watching this episode right now on cable......
I really wish the current ST stuff wasn't so SJW.

>>50216279
>current
>being anything

>>50216292
>Star Trek Discovery will have a female lgbt first officer and makes a point to call this out in leaked info.
Anon, I really wish it was no happening but it is.

>>50216472

...and? The first star trek had a Russian officer when the Cold War was a major thing. Star Trek's never really been one to avoid going to areas other people might not be comfortable with.

>>50216472
Discovery is dead in the water.

>>50216589
Producer? left the show to do other shit.

>>50216733
He's still the executive producer on the project as far as I know. So he will still be around I guess but just not as involved. Don't know if that means the new series will tank.

>>50170922
Remember that Andorians can also survive temperatures that would cook a human alive. Shran once spent three days in a next of bore worms, with temperatures up near the boiling point of water. The only effect was that he lost 10% of his body weight.

Despite being the natives of a frozen moon, Andorians might actually be able to take the heat better than Vulcans.

My theory is that the moon of Andoria once oscillated between extremes of surface temperatures, but something happened to cause it to become locked on the gas giant's night side relative to Procyon A (a white main sequence star), causing the moon to freeze and only receive occasional sunlight from the weak Procyon B (a white dwarf).

(Putting Andor at Procyon is taken from Star Trek Star Charts, the closest we'll ever get to a canon statement on the matter)

Man, reading Michael Piller's book about Insurrection has made me wish we'd gotten that movie. I mean, it's the same plot basis, but it's not as bad, and we'd have had an actual TNG movie with Picard not lurching around without direction or sanity. Though really Fade In is fascinating on its own.

>>50218408
Most alternatives I feel would have been an improvement on what we got.

>>50218720
From the looks of things, the movie was essentially gutted by the script modifications suggested by Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner. Though the stupid aspects are all Piller's, the initial thrust was that an old Academy friend of Picard's goes native on what would be the Son'a planet, and Picard realizes what the Admiralty is doing and goes rogue in a guerilla war sequence.

im surprised sisko didn't identify more with odo and that other changeling's plight after he stabbed that klingon

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>>50218917
Speaking of Sisko, that whole wormhole alien thing should have been more unsettling for him than it was.

>>50219164
Never watched DS9, didn't the man punch Q? Why would me give a shit if someone calls themselves a god in a world where sufficiently powerful aliens are demonstratively a thing.

>>50220944
What purpose does the neck serve on the Saladin class? It seems superfluous to place it like that.

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>>50221859

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl5TUw7sUBs

>>50220944
>>50221915
Why the heck do they have windows in the neck of that ship? Do they actually have living quarters there? If not windows seem like a very big waste of time since most of the time people would only be passing though it quickly.

>>50223019
Well, the schematics don't seem to bear it out, but my personal guess would otherwise have been that that is where the engineering section is.

Which is no reason for windows, but it does mean that people wouldn't be hanging around there, not simply passing through.

>>50223314
Shit, forgot to turn off the trip.

So we had Voyager, which believed that enlisted crewmembers were a thing for other programs. Does this mean we're going to get a kickass show of nothing but enlisted Starfleet crewmember antics, with a minimum of three proto-O'Brians who suffer each season? Because I'd like to see a Starfleet version of Band of Brothers or something like that. Maybe we could do the Cardassian war.

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>>50225467
>Does this mean we're going to get a kickass show

Outlook: unlikely

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>>50225467
>>50226584

I think we can just forget the notion that Trek will ever be good again.

>>50219594
it's a great show, you should give it a chance

it has a rocky start with season 1 but gets much better as it goes along like tng

>>50226610
>>50226584
I blame J. J. Abrams. He's responsible for ruining two of my three favorite things.

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>>50226870
I blame a lot of things. Not just one individual.

>>50226584
So I've not been following anything related to ST: Discovery. Why do people think it's gonna be bad?

>>50227059
Abramsverse
Modern TV trends
Ugly ship
Captain is not the main character
'SJWs'
The Old Trek guy leaving over 'creative differences'

Basically, there's not really any signs that it's actually going to be anything but yet another bland modern TV series that's a veneer of star trek over something else.

I hope to be disappointed.

>>50227059

This is the only cast and crew info we have:

>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ql_1

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>>50211311
They aren't.
TOS era ships a shit.

Pictured: Not a shit ship. Still fanon, but not a shit. I can't help but think the guy who designed it wasn't aware of the Okinawa-class frigate from SFC2, though.

>>50227136
>Abramsverse
Fucking UGH, lost any and all interest there.

STOP WITH THIS ABRAHMSVERSE BULLSHIT, PARAMOUNT!

>>50228142
>TOS era ships a shit.
Please find a Klingon to kill yourself with.

>>50228172
Go get deep-throated by the bastard offspring of a Naussican and a Ferengi, you stupid glowy-dome gold-parabola lover.

>>50227136
i thought they were doing discovery in the main timeline

>>50227136
>Abramsverse
They confirmed primeline months ago though, and nothing has been said about that being changed.

>The Old Trek guy leaving over 'creative differences'
Bryan Fuller? He didn't leave; he's working on it in a reduced capacity because he's running two other shows too and the suits don't want to have to delay Discovery yet again just to fit his schedule.

>>50228501
Sorry, those aren't involved with TOS so that is not possible. I am not sure how loving the superior art deco inspired ship designs makes me stupid. If anything it would suggest a refinement of taste as I don't require overdesigned messes and piles of gribblies and glowy bits to keep myself visually entertained.

Bump with how bad could Star Trek Discovery really be? I'm just hoping for above what CW considers Sci-fi maybe.

>>50231869
I'm expecting something as incoherent as voyager.

>>50192093
"Fourteen of Two"...?

That's not how Borg designations work

>>50167116

I think it's not until you get to insect species that you get past the 7 billion number that we currently have.

>>50232340
And assimilation doesn't usually work as a sexually transmitted disease.

14 of 2 plays by his own rules.

and possibly lives on the Ark Royal with the rest of the freaks

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>>50192133
>>50193088
>>50193529

There was also the Valkyrie series of fighters from that one game by the same people who did Starlancer and Freelancer.

>>50215018
Nice attention to detail. All round quite well done.


>>50232400
I think "being transferred to the Ark Royal" should become /stg/-shorthand for when something doesn't make sense.

>>50217443
>executive producer

That doesn't mean anything. Stan Lee was an Executive Producer on Dr Strange. It's a meaningless title that doesn't actually involve said individual actually contributing to the project in any way.

>>50232404
ST: Invasion was great. Took me ages to get past the Romulans and Cardassians but as ps1 games go it was fantastic.

>>50232438
It can be like that, or it can be a position where the show's tone and writing are determined. It's just as likely that even if Brian Fuller has an opinion, it will be drowned out by people asking for an asexual Vulcan Catgirl to show how inclusive the series is.

>>50232454

>Vulcan Catgirl

Not now penis, I'm trying to dislike that idea intellectually.

>>50232481
I'm talking anime con catgirl. You know, the 400 pound one in a TOS miniskirt, poorly glued ear points and B.O.

Captcha: Lighthouses. Even /stg/ likes Vulcan Catgirls.

>>50231869
They fucked up royal by setting it pre-TOS, and giving it that absurdly derptastic ship.

I won't be able to take it seriously with that absurd era's aesthetics, they just don't LOOK like machines to me, like ships, they look like fucking art projects.

Perhaps I'm unfortunately literal-minded, but I don't care how good the writing is, the characterization is, or any of that; if I can't take the setting precepts seriously, if I can't ignore all the drama and the allegories and bullshit and picture myself or a character of my making in that setting, having my own adventures, and like it/take it seriously, then they've lost me.

They should have set it anywhere from TMP to STO.

>>50225467
The problem with Voyager was that the writing room was a complete clusterfuck. It was a stressful, adversarial working environment both due to the people in the room shooting each other down for their own survival and the suits from Paramount meddling more than usual. That's why there was very little continuity on the show - it explains everything from Janeway's inconsistent behavior to the lack of any enlisted crew being mentioned more than two or three times to little things, like Naomi Wildman's parents just sort of disappearing.

When Voyager suddenly received the ability to call home, I was really expecting there to be something like that moment in Home Movies where Brendan is frozen in terror because his father is on the phone. You know, some kind of drama. Naomi's dad has just been on DS9 the whole time, not even knowing he has a child. And she's probably been told about him all her life but sees him as a stranger and a threat, part of the inevitable "homecoming" that will destroy the only life she's ever known aboard Voyager. There should have been... I dunno, something.

>>50233794
Is this the new thing, hating on TOS? If anything it is the easiest one to picture oneself in since they act like actual humans instead of perfect, future, talk down to those uncivilized aliens humans. So maybe your problem is with your "taking it seriously" rather than any faults of the series, ships, technology, or otherwise.

>>50234215
TOS is absurd and camp. The aesthetics are art-deco trash, the machinery looks like toys and props in a low-budget play; oh, and let's not forget that Klingons looked like Puerto Ricans and dressed like they were going to a night club.

Not that there's anything wrong with Puerto Ricans. They don't look like space aliens, which means space aliens shouldn't look like them. Puerto Ricans should be represented on Star Trek as a human dude/ette from Puerto Rico, not being recruited to portray a space alien as a guy with the fashion sense of a 1970s discotheque dancer.
So now the new show will have to choose one of three options, and they all suck, and will fail entirely to please the fanbase.

> 1: Use TOS-era Klingons, which will enrage everybody for whom Lt. Worf was their first Klingon and General Martok is their dawg.
> 2: Use TNG-era Klingons, creating a plot hole you could fly the Galaxy-class USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) through, which will enrage everybody who gives the slightest of fucks about continuity.
> 3: Don't use Klingons at all, which will enrage everybody.

>If anything it is the easiest one to picture oneself in since they act like actual humans instead of perfect, future, talk down to those uncivilized aliens humans.
No, it really isn't. TOS was the era when Roddenberry reigned supreme, which was both good, and ill. Roddenberry was a utopist, remember, he's the one who thought everything could become perfect. Perfect is a goal, but it's almost certainly unachievable. TOS also gave us shit like "Spock's Brain" which was, let's be frank, stupider than even Voyager's most stupid episode. Yes, I went there. It really is stupider.

I don't like TOS. It's too fucking camp, too absurd. Sure, it had some good episodes, but so did Voyager. It also had some absurd turds, and so did DS9 - or have you forgotten about Allamarain? You had, hadn't you, and now you recall it. You're welcome, I went and slaughtered the sacred calf.

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>>50234396
Move Along Home. Nobody forgets Move Along Home. Which is still a better episode than Profit and Lace, so not the worst in the series.

Also there's option 4 which I believe has been reported: Klingon redesign. Neither TOS nor TNG. I am ok with this.

>>50234396
>Not using Fusion Klingons.
Plebbiest of pleb. And if anything DS9 got Klingons into the mess they were in for Enterprise. They should have just had Michael Dorn show up in the original Klingon makeup with no one batting an eye.

>>50234396
What are you talking about, anon? S1E10 never happened. It's always been a mystery as to why, whenever they show it, it's just an hour of a black screen.

As for the Klingons. I present an alternate option. Use both. Enterprise has given us that option and we may as well get used to it being canon. Though I admit I am biased. I'm the one that created a timeline for a Klingon civil rights reformation, after all.

>>50234396
>TOS is absurd and camp.
I'd rather have something fun that something shit.

Also TOS ships a best.

>>50234764
TOS ships a pretty good. But they only manage 3rd place compared to the film era and the early TNG era.

>>50234764
>Also TOS ships a best.
TOS ships are crap.

I want my space ships to look like SHIPS. If they're made by the Federation, then they can be beautiful, because the Federation has time to spend molding form to look good without compromising function.

What I do NOT want are "ships" that look like a frustrated wannabe artiste/exterior decorator stuck in the 1930s got sent to engineering school against his wishes. TOS-era shit just looks camp and crappy to me; TMP looks like ships that actually do something.

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>>50235004
Ok.

>>50234396

Everything you've said is true. But it's worth remembering that TOS was very experimental. It was this weird, low budget series written by this odd TV writer who had gotten sick of cop shows and westerns. So yeah, they had some disasters. On the other hand when I went back and re-watched some old TOS I was amazed at how good the good episodes really were.

YMMV.

>>50234396
>he doesn't like Move Along Home
What next, you going to hate on The House of Quark?

>>50235004
TOS ships looked more like space ships than the modern art project widget encrusted later ships.

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>>50235061
I didn't say that they weren't. Like I said, TOS had some amazingly well-written episodes; Balance of Power (even if it was clearly a recycled WWII U-boat script,) Trouble with Tribbles, etc. But just like later incarnations, it had its share of absolute shitbombs, too.

I don't have beef with TOS's writing; no more or less than I do with ENT or VOY or TNG or DS9, anyway.
I just can't fucking stand the aesthetics. The glowy-ball nacelle ends are tolerable, barely, to me, when they're on the end of the NX-01's nacelles. That fucking stupid gold DishTV network deflector, though, is an unforgivable offense. And my god, that fuck-ugly ship that we last saw for Discovery?

THAT'S the kind of shit that makes you reach for the brain bleach.

>>50235080
Actually, I loved The House of Quark, and I totally ship Quark x Grillka, and I'm salty that Worf ended up married to her in STO rather than Quark.

>>50235150
>TOS ships looked more like space ships than the modern art project widget encrusted later ships.
Please, go on, tell me how the one in the upper-left is a "widget-encrusted modern art project" and the one immediately to the right of it is more correct than literally all of the rest of those "widget-encrusted modern art projects".

>>50234215
>in TOS they act like actual humans instead of perfect, future, talk down to those uncivilized aliens humans

[citation needed]

In TOS they were way more aggressive about showing off their superiority to other cultures. Remember the Richter Scale of Culture? Remember how excited they were that the space Romans had finally gotten around to inventing Jesus? Remember how they took over the gangster planet? They were boldly saving native populations from themselves on a weekly basis. The Prime Directive was really more of a Prime Vague Suggestion, as they took it even less seriously than they did in later series.

>>50235667
Upper left isn't a space vehicle.

Maybe I should have clarified and written space ship.

>>50235842
Not obeying the prime directive like it's holy writ as they do in TNG is to their credit as it doesn't lead to shit like watching an inhabited planet die and doing nothing because "man should not interfere with the Destiny of lesser races".

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>>50235946
>Upper left isn't a space vehicle.
No, it's got something far, FAR more important in common with the others than the medium in which it sails: it's a ship named Enterprise (CVN-65).

>Maybe I should have clarified and written space ship.
You did. So please, compare and contrast with these, why don't you?
[blistering_sarcasm]They sure are sleek and streamlined, a vision of art-deco loveliness, without any surface detail or widgets, right?[/blistering_sarcasm]


Face it, your idea of what constitutes a "space ship" is entirely rooted in the art-deco camp bullshit of '60s Star Trek - and then, specifically the original, most camp one, the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 pre-refit.

> Real space ships are functional vehicles, they have "widgets" where widgets are appropriate, because those "widgets" are components that have function.
>> We may not know what the functions the "widgets" on a fictional starship have, but it is important - even vital - that they HAVE them, that they look like they have some kind of use; and importantly, so that the showrunners can give them a use later, or, preferably, always have had that use in mind for them.

Even the "real space ships" you're thinking about, the sleek and streamlined ones, have that form because they are AERODYNAMIC, because those are the bits that were intended to take off and land through the Earth's atmosphere. Payload fairings on rockets are sleek and aerodynamic because they have to be; landing capsules and the Orbiter body is sleek and aerodynamic because they have to be. Because that is part of their function.

>>50236007
Honestly, the Prime Directive needs to loosen up. It should read
> Try not to interfere with the development of pre-Warp races, because it can really screw up their development and have devastating colonial effects on their culture.
>> If NOT interfering has more intolerable repercussions than interfering [Ex. not interfering leads to the destruction of a sapient race,] then do it RIGHT.
>>> Try to avoid revealing yourself if at all possible, and if not possible, then go whole-hog, introduce the UFP, welcome the new members of the galactic community, refute any suggestions that aliens are gods, demons, or other supernatural entities, and call in the UFP diplomatic and uplift corps as fast as possible, because handling first contact with pre-warp races REALLY takes specialists.
>>> Also, if another Warp-capable race has contacted a race in the past, they are no longer considered a culture protected by the Prime Directive, and normal spacefaring first-contact protocols are in place.
>>> Ditto if they're in any way, shape, or form, an interplanetary power; by the time you're colonizing other planets in your home solar system, even if you somehow missed Warp tech, your culture is mature enough to take First Contact.
>>> A lost colony (Ex. Humans who left on an interstellar generation ship/cryo-freeze ship/were abducted by aliens in the past) are NOT considered a culture protected by the Prime Directive, but castaways, shipwrecked refugees, or kidnapping victims, and must be contacted with all haste, no matter how their technology base has progressed or regressed.

>>50236814
These are pretty reasonable. I'm a huge fan of that last one, though I think that they should be given the option, but not the requirement to join the Federation.

Personally I'm of the opinion that if it looks like they're going to be destroyed and it's their own fault (global thermonuclear war) they should be left to recover on their own. Destruction that is in no way their fault should absolutely be rescued.

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>Starfleet Assault Cruiser Technology Item Set

>Items in set:
>Console - Universal - Metreon Gas Canisters
>>Found on the Assault Cruiser Refit
>Console – Universal – Incremental Phase Cloaking Device
>>Found on the Intel Assault Cruiser [T6]
>Console – Universal – Metreon Gas Warhead Launcher
>>Found on the Command Assault Cruiser [T6]

>Set Bonuses
>2pc: Assault Cruiser Versatility
>>+Turn Rate
>>+Directed Energy Damage

>3pc: Battle Cloak
>>Grants an ability that allows the user to engage a Battle Cloaking device

I don't know if it'll actually be worth shit in STO, but the thought of a Sovereign-class with a battle cloak is pretty damn enticing.

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>>50236966
Battle cloak, at least with Roms gives them a damn fine damage boost right when they decloak, making them the DPS kings of the block.

Mfw i have been an assault cruiser fan till now and i have been waiting for that damn Tier 6 ass cruiser to come.
Then when it comes it takes its brother with it and invites me over for a party.

>>50236945
>These are pretty reasonable. I'm a huge fan of that last one, though I think that they should be given the option, but not the requirement to join the Federation.

Well, yeah. Obviously, everybody should be free to tell the UFP to go eat a bag of dicks.

> Destruction that is in no way their fault should absolutely be rescued.
Of course! Star about to go nova, dinosaur-killer about to hit their planet like the fist of an angry god, etc, absolutely you rescue them.

>Personally I'm of the opinion that if it looks like they're going to be destroyed and it's their own fault (global thermonuclear war) they should be left to recover on their own.
This, I cannot agree with. No matter what the "cause," any given civilization is going to be made up of at least tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, millions, or billions of individuals. THEIR side may or may not be the antagonists in any given conflict with global-destructive potential; they may be bystanders entirely, as helpless to do anything about it as the inhabitants of Madagascar are to prevent, say, the Russian Federation and the United States of America from deciding to have WWIII: Nuclear Bugaboo. And even those citizens of the belligerent powers; even the antagonist power, if it's a clear-cut case of antagonist versus innocent, don't deserve to have their entire culture and society wiped out in an exchange of global thermonuclear war.

If their "natural cultural development" is leading to a world-ending nuclear exchange, then their natural cultural development is at an end, and it's time for them to be saved - from themselves, yes, if need be, just as surely as if their homeworld were tearing itself apart through natural geological processes. There's no reason to allow them all to die because "they deserve it."
> "They Deserve It" is truly unenlightened thinking.

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>>50236725
>>50235667
>>50234396
>>50233794

I'm not the anon you've been arguing with, but:

>widgets should have function

Yes they should. Unfortunately, Trek has a habit of giving zero fucks about what the designer thought or wanted. Pic related.

>TOS has the worst episodes!

Yep. It also has some of the best. That's the trouble with TOS. It's this weird mixture of the very best and very worst of Trek, and Gene's hand is very strong throughout.

>low budget props

Yeah. A great deal of TOS sets are made from particle board. But this isn't exactly something new. There's bits and bobs of the TMP era movies that made their rounds through TNG, DS9, and VOY that were reused and repainted cardboard. Making sets is expensive - TNG originally didn't have an Engineering set until Roddenberry complained about it. As well, CGI at one time was extremely expensive.

>Puerto Rican klingons

TOS not only had to fight for its budget, but creating unique makeup or prosthetic pieces for every klingon they wanted to show onscreen wouldn't have been feasible. We have to just accept it was a different time, with less developed special effects techniques, and a shoestring TV budget.

>>50237114
>Making sets is expensive
No fucking joke. Here's some of the set costs from Insurrection. Note that both of these were cut.

SC.108-TRANSPORTER ROOM (for one 3 page scene)
Construction revamp and restoration $30,804
Construction labor fringe $6,038
Set Dressing $16,300
TOTAL POTENTIAL SAVINGS $53,142

SC.111-SICKBAY
Construction revamp and restoration $20,000
Construction labor fringe $3,920
Set Dressing $32,750
TOTAL POTENTIAL SAVINGS $56,670

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>>50237114

>TOS Connie is garbage

You can hold that opinion. I don't share it, but then, I spent my formative years watching TOS re-runs, and that's how I was introduced to Trek in the first place. Trek's whole take on starships was completely different than had come before, because in previous shows and movies, they were either flying saucers or atomic rocket ships.

The TOS Connie plays with both, and shows that a starship with technology far beyond ours might look far different from what we might expect. Everything on that ship does have function, because Jeffries did know where things were supposed to be on the ship.

The main reason it has a lack of surface details is that Jeffries recognized that spacewalks are inherently dangerous, and he chose to put most of the Enterprise's critical systems inside the hull where people could work on them safely in an environment with gravity (which does in fact, simply things greatly).

I'll admit, the design isn't perfect. The neck from the stardrive section to the saucer section needs to be thickened. The nacelle pylons could have done with a backsweep like the ones on the TMP refit model.

That said, the Discovery is dogshit.

>>50237187
Oh and animal training for a single scene joke.

Llama Rental and Buyout for cutting fur $35,800
Animal Trainers $28,514
Feed $1,000
Below the Line Fringe $7,984
TOTAL POTENTIAL SAVINGS $73,298

>>50236966
I was hype as fuck for this until I read that you can't get the code from online orders. I have no idea if there's anywhere around here to buy that kinda shit.

>>50235842

As opposed to TNG where:

>pre-warp civilization is going to be destroyed through a natural disaster
>intervention could save them, but it would violate the Prime Directive
>lets dogmatically adhere to the Prime Directive, even though its purpose is to protect them from us, rather than give us lease to abandon them to a cruel fate
>we get to see the religious reverence the Federation holds toward the Prime Directive when Riker goes on a tangent about an unknowable "cosmic plan"

Yeah. Real awesome.

>>50237696
Meanwhile Kirk and crew find a planet killer sized rock heading towards bronze age dudes.

"Cosmic plan" dictates that they be left to die. Fuck that noise.

Spock stuck the ship in the path of the rock because the ships warp-core detonating when the rock killed them all would be enough to destroy the planet killer boulder. Saved only because Kirk managed to activate an ancient laser system on the planet surface.

>>50237965
So, you cant use your phasers, torpedoes, shuttlecraft or the fucking tractor beam, but you can doom your entire ship and crew by having it fall into the path of the asteroid...

Seriously, who the fuck writes these rules in the starfleet!

>>50234396
How does it feel to be this much of a millennial?

>>50238008
I think there was a week as fuck in universe reason for it but basically yes it was shit writing to give Spock and the crew a reason to demonstrate that they were willing to go into that black night to save others.

Contrast that with Picard who just stood there a mumbled some cheap whore platitudes whilst watching millions of men, women and children and an entire unique and irreplaceable planet die because muh Destiny.

>>50238174
And had warlord Janeway been there, she would have probably added some warheads into that meteorite, nudged it into a new course and destroyed her enemies with it.

>>50238174
>>50238008

They used their weapons and such but massively overtaxed the ship to the point of breaking the warp drives in attempting to deflect the asteroid.
So, no, not weak, not rules.

>>50237965
>>50238008
That was a weird episode. The asteroid was, a few hours away from the planet when traveling at warp 9. So it's something like 1 light year away, and it's traveling slower than light. The force of one torpedo applied to it in almost any direction will send it far, far away from the planet. And yet they seem to have trouble with it.

>>50238381
Or, you know.
Send a team on a shuttle to its surface, bore a hole into it and drop a torpedo down into that hole.
Either the explosion creates a temporary jet that launches it to another direction or it shatters it and one light year away from the planet those shards have a snowballs chance in hell on hitting it.

>>50237114
Nothing you have said is untrue, anon. But the thing is, that doesn't mean we should aspire to ape the awful.

Do like they do in-character: embrace the good bits from those times (The good writing,) and just kind of shove the bad (the godawful unconvincing props, the camp and cheese) into the back of the cupboard and forget about it. The aesthetics were NOT the strong suit of TOS, and the ship design of that era is quite simply dogshit.

>>50237197
> Spacewalks are dangerous.
If you want a life entirely safe from danger, don't join Starfleet. In fact, don't go to space! Hell, you probably shouldn't go out to sea without an emergency transporter beacon that will let you beam yourself straight to the main municipal transporter pad in the town you're from, and probably shouldn't ever get into traffic at all.

Starships have need of stuff on the hull, because some things make no sense to put anywhere else. Weapons, for instance, need to project through the hull to fire, unless you're firing terrapedoes straight out of Schlock Mercenary, right onto the bridge of the enemy ship. Engines, airlocks, sensors, the shields, etc.

Seriously, what, on the hull of the Enterprise-E, doesn't need to be on the hull? I can't see anything that doesn't have a reason to be there, except maybe the surface paint. But you know what? On a vessel massing kilotons, maybe a few tons of paint make no practical difference, and it makes the ship look good. That's reason enough for it to be there for the UFP.

The TOS Connie just doesn't look like a VEHICLE, it looks like a low-res model of one.

>That said, the Discovery is dogshit.
Agreed.

>>50237696
>>50237965
Gene had some really bad ideas WRT the Prime Directive.

>>50238174
Yeah, I like to think that that incident is one that Picard ranks as one of his all-time greatest failures, as a Captain, as a person and as a leader/example to others. I headcanon that as being why he went hard-line against that nonsense in Insurrection; seeking redemption for that bullshit.

>>50238645
I would like to believe that, I really would. But that was not the only time Picard was prepared to let an entire planet die Just 'Cause.

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I like the TOS aesthetic in places. Not a fan of the uniforms (though I likes the sensible coats they had in The Cage, I guess they made everyone look too similar on tv and didn't really add much when they were pushing for colour). The ship design, well it can it can look bad. The original footage suffers a lot from it, the remastered versions drastically improves effects heavy episodes like The Doomsday Machine, so when the stuff is built, shot and lit in higher detail and from angles not at all possible at the time of the original, it tends to look a lot nicer. Strange that.

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>>50238631

You can simply ignore TOS if you don't like it. I do, so I'll enjoy it for what it is.

>safety and hull protrusions

Cosmic radiation is a huge hazard in space travel, and particularly in deep space. But, I am reminded that Trek often doesn't care about it, trivializes it, or ignores it completely until it's time to use it for tension.

As for bits and bobs extending from the hull, the TOS Connie does in fact, have these things. There's just not as many of them.

I will agree that the Sovereign is a pretty good example of a now no longer contemporary take on the starship design principles TOS laid down. I really don't have issues with it - it's generally fan made stuff that I don't care for.

Something I specifically like about the Sovereign is the torpedo launcher on the bottom of the saucer. It's a great feature. I'm not a fan of the bussard collectors on the front of the nacelles though. But, I'm not a fan of that style on the Intrepid either. Something about the post TNG nacelles has always bothered me. At least the ones on the Sovereign are fairly balanced as for as their width/length/placement on the pylons is concerned.

>TOS Connie doesn't look like a vehicle

I think you're being too hard on a half-painted, hand crafted model from the late '60s. To me, it does in fact look like a vehicle. You can see where her impulse engines are. You can see the nacelles that generate the warp field. She has a prominent shuttle bay. She has protrusions on the top and bottom of the saucer for the phaser banks, as well as one on the end of the stardrive hull above the shuttle bay. There's even a photon torpedo launcher hanging from the saucer (just above the sensor dome).

Honestly, you don't like it. Nothing wrong with that. You're entitled to that opinion. But I can't bring myself to agree with you or see the TOS Connie the way you do.

But, at least we can be united in our distaste for Discovery.

>>50238381
Shit, you could gently push it to one side with a phaser and have 364.5 more days to watch it. It's just another symptom of science fiction writers being unable to comprehend interstellar distance scales.

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>>50239948

Pretty much this.

>>50239593
>Cosmic radiation is a huge hazard in space travel, and particularly in deep space.
To a shielded starship? Or someone spacewalking on the hull of a shielded starship? Or someone spacewalking on the hull of a starship which had the good sense to pull into orbit of a planet whose magnetic field offers adequate protection against the worst radiation at their orbital altitude?

Trek trivializes cosmic radiation the way we'd trivialize a distance of < 10 miles. That was not a trivial distance even if you had a good horse and were traveling light, though it was by no means a whole day's travel. On foot, though, if you happened to be a commoner, it was.

Has there, in any bit of Star Trek material... ever been the story of an Oberth-class ship doing something heroic? We have seen Connies, Excelsiors, Ambassadors, Galaxies, Defiants, Intrepids, even Akiras doing heroic things.

Never poor Oberth-chan.

It seems some people are getting too hung up on the way everything looks and what the show was trying to show as a possible future for mankind. The effects, ideas and fashions they were showing were a product of the time they were created in. But the core of the scope of what they were trying to put forth shaped the idea of what kind of form the tech/ideas of the future would take. They had no idea how strong an influence it would have or how right they got a few things. Bluetooth, cell phones, and card like things that somehow hold data, it's kind of scary how much life has imitated art really.

>>50241289

>shielded starship in range of a suitable body with a magnetosphere

If you're going to cherry pick the best case scenario, sure.

>>50241289
I think a better example of how what was a adventure/life changing event is travel from continent to continent. Before the 20th century, it was really a situation of taking your life into your own hands doing that. Now it isn't even an after thought for most if you want to go from US to the EU the possible danger in the travel flight wise anyway. It's not totally safe but the worst most get from it nowadays is long lines and jetlag. Something like that would turn most people's world upside down before the age of flight.

>>50242442
You conveniently forgot the deflector dish alone being adequate for all three of those suggestions.

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>>50242609

>"It sure is a good thing that Engineer Nobody lined our EV suits with unobtanium, or else losing the main deflector would have really cooked our goose!"

Everyone also seems to be forgetting the Workbees we see in TMP and STIII and IV, too.

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>Get home from work, pop on to see whats new in the world of trek.
>mfw its another "I HATE THIS THING LETS ARGUE FOR AN ENTIRE DAY" thread.

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Bump for Khan did nothing wrong.

>dukat manages to corrupt winn and destroy her faith in the prophets all within the span of a day or two

absolutely

devilish
e
v
i
l
i
s
h

>>50246448
Winn never really believed though. She had never been able to hear the Prophets, so felt it was all one big lie.

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>>50219594
>didn't the man punch Q?
Yes, yes he did.

And a lot of other people. And he lied to get the Romulans into the war. But you know what? He can live with it.

>>50226870
At least he didn't ruin masturbation for you, right?

>>50246465
Most of the Bjorans don't have a direct speed dial line to the Prophets like The Sisko has.


There was no indication that she had no faith in them prior to her crisis of faith that the Pah' Wraiths took advantage of.

Also Dukat has maxed out Charisma and he was their party face.

>>50246900
Apparently unless you're a psychic cripple the Orbs will at least show you something. She got zip.

>>50246910
Then she, in a galaxy full of psychics with a disturbing lack of understanding of privacy, had the good fortune to be born with psychic insulation. Truly she was blessed by her gods.

>>50247162
>psychic insulation
I think that's code for having no actual empathic ability and zero true spirituality. That bitch was a sham from beginning to end as a priest to her people.

>>50249002
Really?

I never got that from before the writers needed her to be a sham.

Before that she just seemed ambitious and a bit of an asshole.

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>>50246910
>Dukat calls Kira up to tell her he fuged her mum
>Prophets let her go back in time just to see if he was lying

>Winn never gets a vision or anything

>>50249131
To be fair, I think 90% of the interaction the crew of DS9 had with the Prophets was solely to troll the Sisko. Hell the novels outright state that across the multiverse there must always be a Sisko, something they came up with quite literally after meeting the Sisko from DS9 in the Pilot, and altering countless universes to do it. We're talking even a Sisko of Borg here. The only non-Sisko Sisko is that Cardie chick Kira was supposed to be, and that's because she went nuts and decided that Kira Nerys was who she really was, and the only way to be Kira was to kill all the Kiras. DS9's relaunch is weird as fuck.