>this is what passes for a gun in the Imperium ayy lmao

>>50150837
Yeah? It's a super-powerful lazer blaster. That can be powered from any energy source. And can be produced for peanuts.

>>50151888
>super-powerful
>cant fucking kill an Ork

I think the Guardsmen are just too dim or ignorant to properly set them at full power.

>>50151893
Orks can survive having their heads transplanted by deranged paindoks, they are pretty ridiculous when it comes to surviving

>>50150837
looks more like yo momma

>>50151888
> super-powerful
It's not significantly more powerful than a modern service rifle. Its advantages are in ease of use and logistics, not stopping power.

It doesn't need to be good, it needs to be cheap, efficient with it's ammo, and capable of killing a man.

Sure it's not a bolter, but it's an imperial logistic officer's wet dream.

>>50151893
>Can't kill an Ork

Can with headshots, which is about as good as you'll get for anything that's not a legion boltgun or stronger to the chest. Orkz are tough motherfuckers, Anon, that's the point.

I think you guys forget how powerful lasguns are. They're fully capable of shooting through concrete walls and engine blocks.

It's just that they're up to bat against motherfuckers who can demolish buildings with headbutts and guns that rapid-fire tiny missiles or super-heated bolts of fuckyou gas.

They only seem weak in comparison.

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The average lasgun on medium setting can blow a mans arm clean off

Love solar auxillia's lasgun, the best variant ever produced lore-wise

>>50152223
>not significantly more powerful than a modern service rifle

>“The older man sidestepped, so as not to risk hitting the girl. Then he blew the second chanter’s head into steam.” / Hammer and Bolter (#13), p.141 - **

>>50152223
>>50152306
>>50152337

One thing to remember is Lasguns are perfectly capable of different levels of outputs, not only that but any weapon-name in 40k tends to refer to a group of designs over specific ones. A Boltgun used by a Space Marine, for example, deals a good bit more damage than a Boltgun made for Humans, and even then there's variations of the two in pattern and capability.

Needless to say the average Lasgun, such as the M35 M, is capable of severing limbs and detonating heads on optimal, providing it's an unarmoured location.

>>50152223
Lasguns can blow an arm or leg clean off, which is something you see in a 50 cal if not a 20mm cannon. There ain't no service rifle, full power rifle, or GPMG that can completely blow a limb off a body. Hell a 5.56 round puts a hole in you the size of a dime, maybe a quarter at best.

>>50151888
>spells laser with a fucking z
Kill yourself.

>>50151893
you try killing something the size of a bear with five times the dumb luck and three times the thick hide

>>50151893
Orks can literally get their heads cut off with a cleaver, stitched on to a different body with steel hooks and leather strips, and then walk it off after a couple of days.

They are like the shooty, choppy cockroaches of the galaxy.

>>50152811
>with five times the dumb luck

Bears don't need luck. They've got all the raw skill they need to fuck your day up.

I don't buy this whole "Lasgun strong as AT Rifle" thing. In art, games and tabletop you see various peoples taking cover behind concrete (or space concrete) walls and they're perfectly fine (fine as you can be in 40k, that is).

>>50153118
Material science in 40k has hit absolutely ludicrous levels. Sure, Lasguns aren't as strong as an AT rifle, but they still sever limbs and pop heads like a .50 BMG when on the higher settings. Imperial Guard Flak Armour, conversely, actually does a good job of blocking even direct hits from this, meaning that even the cheap-ass Imperial military armour is a bit better than anything but the impractically top-of-the-line materials we have today.

>>50153118
That's rockcrete not concrete ;^)

>>50152698
50 cals exist in 40k, they're heavy stubbers and they have higher strength than lasguns. People talk up lasgun stopping power, but the actual stats don't support that. They're not appreciably stronger than autoguns and stubbers. Both the tabletop stats and FFG's stats give them similar strength/damage.

>>50153157
If that's true, why are plague zombies ever a problem? Likewise, why would poorly equipped rebels ever stand a chance?

>>50153157
> .50 BMG
Is S4. Lasguns are S3.

>>50153180
Plague Zombies are infused with the power of Nurgle himself, as we've seen his blessings can make flesh ridiculously durable compared to what it should be. That being said, however, fluffwise Plague Zombies and rebels usually don't stand much of a chance and get trashed by organised militaries in virtually any engagement. The former are still much more dangerous because the disease is airborne shortly after infection and there's no cure once you breath in the corpse-gas from a dead one.

>>50153215
Firstly, TT and fluff don't correlate particularly well, but decent enough point.

Secondly, in actual fluff we see Lasguns being easily capable of vapourizing heads and completely severing limbs, something anything less than a .50 might have trouble doing.

Thirdly, in fluff most Lasgun patterns are capable of varying outputs, which isn't represented in TT. You could fire your lasergun pretending to be an M16, see Chaos marines over the ridge and switch to 'maximum murder,' which is a decent amount more impressive, but nothing ludicrous.

>>50153162
Difference is what exactly?

>>50152223
It depends on the lasgun. Some are better than others, some have different power outputs depending on who they're used by. The Vostroyan Firstborn lasgun is a lot more like a musket or bolt-action rifle, while the Elysian Drop Troops use a fifty-shot bullpup, but is a semi-auto rifle, a fairly light gun.

>>50153157
IG tanks are significantly weaker than modern tanks in terms of armor and mobility. Their weapons also have trouble penetrating that same weaker armor. Modern tech is better in terms of short term performance, IG's main focus is on easy of use and supply since the Imperium sucks at organization, bureaucracy, and supply lines and the troops are a whole lot dumber than modern grunts.

>>50153260
Black library novels are inconsistent, the stats in codexes are a more consistent portrayal, and they indicate that stubguns, autoguns, and lasguns are in a similar group while a .50 cal is significantly more powerful.

>>50153290
The stats for the armour are old fluff and don't exactly correlate with the descriptions we've seen on how durable the Leman Russes actually are. Not saying they're instantly invalid, but by this point citing them doesn't hold a lot of strength as an argument either, especially considering the inconsistency of 40k fluff.

It makes more sense to me that the Leman Russ is extremely durable compared to modern tanks and the weapons they're throwing around are just far more advanced, especially considering we know Plasteel is some super-future alloy made during the Dark Age.

>>50153081
Well just imagine if that bear had five (5) lucks.

I feel like this whole idea is just an attempt to make the average Guardsmen cooler than he actual is.

I forget where I saw it but can't a lasgun pierce through like 6 inches of concrete (not rockcrete but regular modern concrete) and still kill an unarmored human on the other side?

>>50153354
Even if you ignore BL fluff, the lasgun can still do all of those things, and for some reason you keep ignoring the fact that lasguns have different power settings in fluff unlike in TT

>>50153180
Poorly equipped rebels never do. I can't think of a single time when anything other than a full traitor guard rising up did anything unless its outnumbering the PDF millions to one.

And plague zombies are nurgle's bullshit so it doesn't quite apply. All the shit about stress fucking up aim you see in zombie movies would be multiplied tenfold when the Monarch of Misery sics his servants on you.

>>50153354
The stats in the codices do offer a clear basis, I'll give you that. That aside, however, to make a .50 BMG S4 would be putting it on the same level as a .60+ superfuture material gyroget AP rocked that makes complete mincemeat of better-than-modern infantry armour, while also erasing the entire guy's torso from existence.

You could argue the Heavy Stubber I guess but it's clear from the Assault Cannon and Multilaser that GW takes weapons with a high rate of fire, gives them a decently low rate and increases the strength to represent loadsa dakka being thrown at once.

>>50151893
You can literally rip an Ork's arms and legs off, jam steel I beams in there as peg legs and weld, weld mind you, a pair of hatchet arms onto its stumps and it will survive

They have damn near wolverine style healing factor

>>50153464
>near
I don't know much about the wolverine but I'd say orks have a better healing factor. Can the wolverine be decapitated and survive it?

>>50153173
By default a lasgun has 1d10 + 3 damage with 0 penetration, while a heavy stubber does 1d10 + 4 damage with 3 penetration. However, you can set your lasgun to overload, in which it will then due 1d10 + 5 damage with 2 penetration, at the cost of using four charges for each shot, giving you an ammo capacity of 15 for each charge pack, and making the lasgun unreliable. This gives it pretty much the exact same stats as the heavy stubber.
If you REALLY need to kill a fucker you can get hot shot packs. You only get one shot per pack before you have to reload, but you get 1d10 +4 damage with 4 pen, which makes it slightly better then a heavy stubber against armored targets.
Thats not even getting into hellguns/hot shot lasrifles, which do 1d10+4 damage with 7 pen.

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>>50151893
>can't fucking kill an ork
get these xenos off my board

The idea that lasguns are super powerful comes solely from guard-centric novels. It's not backed up by the rules or even novels told from someone else's perspective.

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>>50153487

>>50153505
> By default a lasgun has 1d10 + 3 damage with 0 penetration
And the default stub automatic, which is basically a modern firearm, also does 1d10+3 with 0 pen.

>>50153487
Wolverine got nuked and regenerated
>>50153575

He can only really be killed by either
>Drowning
>Suffocation
>Starvation
>Complete incineration (you have to completely turn him to ash)

>>50153180
Poorly equipped rebels tend to either have numbers or terrain on their side.

Besides, you have to remember a lasgun works differently from an autogun (i.e. a rifle with bullets). Las-rifles cause a small surface explosion whereever their laser hits, which is great against unarmored targets and bare flesh. The reason flak can defend well against that is because it's good at resisting a level of heat, protecting a soldier from that surface explosion.

But otherwise, flak is really only good at protecting against shrapnel and maybe small caliber arms. So an autogun can actually pierce it pretty well.

>>50153487
>wolverine
He can survive being decapitated as well as vertically bisected. Orks to my knowledge will die if you hit their regenerative glands, so they do have weak points but those tend to be armored.

Wolverine has no weak points, every part of his body regenerates independently of the rest.

>>50153579
A lasgun has 60 shots before you need to reload and a autogun only has 30. If you increase the lasrifles power setting, you get +1 damage and your charge pack goes down to 30 shots, still making it a straight upgrade over the autogun unless you load it with specialty ammunition.
A hand cannon has 1d10 + 4 damage with 2 pen, which makes it better then a lasgun on its weakest setting but weaker then a lasgun on its strongest setting.

>>50153220
>Plague zombies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo1fNO6bx48

>>50153666
Can you grow a second Wolverine from a severed arm?

>>50153173
And the actual stats have marines at a reasonable chance of dying in meele to guardsmen. Marines, who, btw, cant kill other marines with their bolters.

And the best way to kill terminators is massed lasgun fire.

TT stats are shite for anything, including the w40k tabletop game

>>50154282
I think riptide does a good job at portraying the inherent superiority of tau versus everyone else except eldars.

>>50153698
I don't think anyone's tried that just yet, but you don't get a second Deadpool from a severed arm, and his healing factor is based off of Wolverine's, so I'm betting the answer is, "no."

>>50152223
>It's not significantly more powerful than a modern service rifle
a man-portable laser with that output IS super powerful

Lasguns used to be S4. They're on the cusp of bolter territory, just with less penetrative force.

>>50150837
>ayy lmao

Look, we already knew you were alien filth just by disrespecting the Imperium but you don't need to telegraph it so much.

>>50153354
And the stats in codices are more retarded than the fluff, not to mention that fucking GAME MECHANICS aren't canon. Besides if you think there's consistency in any fiction, you're an idiot. Cause it's fiction.

>>50153628
>>Drowning
>>Suffocation
>>Starvation
>>Complete incineration (you have to completely turn him to ash)
Those didn't work either. You have to remove his healing power to kill him, otherwise it's impossible.

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>>50152223
Someone did the math a while ago, It kicks like a .22, and has the force of an incendiary 20mm,

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>>50150837
They have the firepower of an M14 and the reliability of
an AK with the advantages of using power for ammunition.

>>50155502
They really power creeped the fuck outa ol Logie didnt they?

>>50155485
>if you think there's consistency in any fiction, you're an idiot.

I don't think you know what that word means.

>>50154343
TAUFAGS GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

http://panoptesv.com/SciFi/LaserDeathRay/DeathRay.html

For those interested in lasguns and science.

>>50153173
You cant compare lore and stats.
Lorewise a space marine could be swarmed by hundreds of nids and come out without a scratch.

Lorewise old one eye could alone tear apart most any army you could field in the game.

You may have a point with the ffg stubber comparison though.

>>50153526
The admech novels can probabbly give a pretty accurate depiction of how powerful all the weapons are.

But yeah combining the already inconsistent 40k with the need to have the protagonists kill shit dead makes for unreliable data.

>>50156162
There is no fictional universe that is consistent, even if it has a single author. If you're looking for consistent statistics in a setting, you're an autist.

>>50153698
Probably not, parts would probably just exist in a horrific state of not-death until reattached.

>>50152698
>what even is a hollow point round
if you actually want to shoot people you use hollow point rounds, which while not making a larger hole have a much much larger expansion ratio which would probably be comparable to a lasgun.

>>50153526
Maybe IG novels are simply propaganda?

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>>50153575
>all soft tissue gone down to bare bone
>eyeball

>>50150837
>idiot OP tries to use Meme!
>it wasn't very effective

so whats the problem with a gun that is reliable and tough, and can kill a normal human?

that it cant kill a space marine or battlesuit? thats like asking why your M16 cant kill a tank. against anything T4 or less, you have a pretty good chance of knocking them out, especially if fired in bulk

>>50159417
What is the most common enemy IG fights? Orks. And can this gun reliably kill Orks? No. Can it kill Necrons or CSM? No.

So this pile of cuntfuck is good only against cultists yet is issued in every war.

>>50159464
CAN THIS GUN KILL ORKS RELIABLY? I DUNNO YOU TELL ME AFTER I FINISH DUMPING 60 DICE FOR HITS AND 45 FOR WOUNDS.

>>50159464
>>50159535
NECRONS? CSM? FUCK THEM AND GET THE SLIGHTLY SHOOTIER VARIANT, THE HOTSHOT LASGUNS,
WHATS THAT I HEAR. THE GLORY OF THE HOT SHOT VOLLEY GUN? 12 SHOTS A PIECE?

>>50153355
This. An Abrams platoon wouldn't last more than a couple minutes against a few Leman Russes. I doubt it's main cannon could even penetrate its armour without a luck hit in the rear while a Lascannon oneshots everything.

>>50159464
considering that the primary ork-killing weapon is the flamer and autocannon, then the lasguns are simply there to screen out survivors who managed to walk through your actual guns

against necron or CSM, lasguns still serve the main purpose of screening the HWT or tanks, both of these foes cry against battle-cannons and plasma, with the survivors no longer coherent or numerous enough to withstand even the paltry fire power of a lasgun

and the main advantage of lasguns is their number, anything that isnt a terminator or MC will eventually die to massed lasfire, an ork might withstand 2 or 3 shots, but getting hit by an organized fusillade will ensure that he will be turned to swiss cheese

>>50159553
Remember when Angron with army consisting solely of Berzerkers shitstomped entire planets? Lmao shows how powerful IG is.

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What do the Kriegers use? Lore describes them similar to hotshot lasguns, slower but more powerful. Like bolt action rifles.

>>50159535
>>50159540
DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A SUPER HOT BEAM OF IONIZATION/LASER TOUCHES SOFT SQUISHY AND RAW FLESH? INSTANT CAUTERIZATION OF THE WOUND AND INTERNAL BLEEDING.
YOU DON'T EVEN NEED TO BLOW THE LIMB OFF TO KILL HIM
JUST FIRE THREE ROUNDS INTO HIS MIDSECTION AND DUCK TO COVER. THEN WAIT FOR HIM TO EXSANGUINATE HIMSELF AS HE RUNS TOWARDS YOU.
IF HE ISN'T DEAD OR COLLAPSING BY THIS POINT. STAB HIM A COUPLE OF TIMES

>>50159580
that speaks more about angron, and having a legion strength army of astartes , than it does about the IG, who to my knowledge didnt exist at the time of their planet killing thing

>>50156108
It's the metal skeleton that does it really.
If you could destroy his brain it would probably kill him, since he can't regenerate if he is actually dead, but that thing is in an indestructible dome.

>>50159697

How does he breathe with a fixed-size indestructible metal skeleton, anyway? I assume they did the same stuff to his cartilage as his bones, or else he'd have real problems with his sternum getting punched into his spine by musclebrutes.

Does he have to expand his gut every time he inhales? Does he worry people think he's fat?

>>50159906
Your mother is a cunt.

>>50159906
>Does he worry people think he's fat?
he's canadian and drinks heavily

if he didn't have a beer gut, people would ask questions

>>50150837
>this is what passes for bait in /tg/

ayy lamo

>>50159586
That's a grenadier with a hellgun.
Otherwise it's lucius-pattern standard lasgun.

Laslocks are the bolt action elephant rifle equivalent.

>>50151893
Orkz can easily tank any modern gun that isnt heavy duty.
Pistol rounds just bunce of them apparently.

>>50153631
>and maybe small caliber arms.
Its been described to stop autostubber shots perfectly well.

The imperium is high tech as fuck.

>>50153268
One was made by necron tier tech humanity the other was made by us.

>>50159464
>What is the most common enemy IG fights
Nids
So yes your basic gaunt will be torn apart from a single shot anything bigger might be a problem.

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>>50160740
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Tech-Thrall-Covenant-with-Las-Locks

>>50160973
>Nids

According to what? Several regiments are known for fighting orks and orks can be found everywhere in the galaxy. Probably the only enemy more common than orks are other guardsmen in terms of heretics and traitors.

>>50161083
There's Las-Locks and Laslocks. Las-Locks are the old Tech-Thrall GC design and Laslocks are primitive Lasguns used by some Guard Regiments.

It's weird.

>>50161195
Where do "bolt action laser" laslocks even come from, because I can't find anything about them.

>>50160740
>A laslock is too an Elephant gun what a lasgun is to an assault rifle.
>>50161083
>Laslocks are older, slower, more powerful and less accurate lasguns
Come on, you get the point.

>>50161238
IIRC it's from Gaunt's Ghosts novel Straight Silver, where the local pdf have one-shot cells for their old lasguns. Not bolt-action per se, but the effect is similar.
(though you could have a bolt action, since there is no recoil to eject the spent cell)

>>50152223
One shot is as powerful as a decent size burst from an automatic weapon in intermediate range.

>>50152422
Until DoW2 and the FFG Spess Mehreen game SM Bolters were only slightly more powerful than guardsman use ones, and on par with SoB ones.

Then some asshole gave them .998 long instead of .75 long.

>>50151893
ork can keep fighting with 2 spears in his back and half a head missing
might as well say "lol it can't kill a tarrasque"

>>50159588
Also massive tissue damage as flesh boils and causes cavitation deeper in

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Well golly guys, and here I liked the lasgun because it's a long rifle with a satisfying crackle when you fire a hot beam of pinpoint explosion with every pull of the trigger.

It ain't as powerful as the micro-rocket launcher sure, but it looks like a gun that would feel mighty good in your hands.

>>50161344
>Come on, you get the point.

Mechanicum would not give their dudes inferior weapons to lasguns, not to forget that the models don't look like crude "bolt action" lasguns PDF and other shit tier units would use.

>IIRC it's from Gaunt's Ghosts novel Straight Silver, where the local pdf have one-shot cells for their old lasguns. Not bolt-action per se, but the effect is similar.
(though you could have a bolt action, since there is no recoil to eject the spent cell)

Well, retcons do happen. There's what the novel had and now there's what the FW books have.

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>>50161821
>Then some fan claimed they're .998 long

There is not a single official source that says .998 caliber.

There are, however, sources that give Marines as tiny as .50 caliber bolts.

>>50163461
Weird, usually all bolters aside from heavy ones are .75cal.

Also the .998 is from Dawn of War 2, unofficial and a serious mistake.

>>50163508
>Weird, usually all bolters aside from heavy ones are .75cal.

In 40k.

Would make sense for Crusade and Heresy era inventions to try different calibers and configurations. It's possible afterwards .75 was made the standard Imperial caliber and possibly old pattern bolters were rechambered to it. Just like how just about all lasgun patterns take the same power cells. Makes logistics easy, when it doesn't matter what battlefield it is, the same supplies can be delivered there, and factories just need to make their products adhere to the standard measurements given to them by Munitorum.

>>50163461

>semi-selective: as "semi-automatic" but sometimes other selections are available

>full selective fire: allows you to select whether you shoot at targets or provide suppressing fire

>>50163628
Semi-automatic is mentioned on the pistol. Maybe it's not semi-selective as a single word, but as in semi AND selective (like kiwi-lime or something). Maybe "selective" is some sort of burst/automatic fire option?

>>50163429
>Mechanicum would not give their dudes inferior weapons
First, tech-thralls are slave labour converted into the cheapest infantry possible by recycling the useless fleshy bits. If the mechanicus had the STC for slingshots they would have equipped them with that instead.
Second, tech-thralls are 30k. With the amount of tech they've lost in 40k, the laslocks are 10 millenia old, or shitty knock-offs. Either way, their preformances wouldn't have been improved.

>>50163822
>tech-thralls are slave labour converted into the cheapest infantry possible

Cheap for Mechanicum. You know what's cheaper? Get a bunch of dudes out of the hab-blocks, give them lasguns and march them at the enemy. There, you just saved yourself a ton of assembly time and cybernetic implantation.

If the laslock is the shitties gun, why isn't it standard on Militia, the PDF of the Army? They got auxilia rifles and lascarbines standard. Las-locks are an upgrade for them.

>the laslocks are 10 millenia old, or shitty knock-offs

So is everything else, yet power armour, bolters and such aren't 2nd tier trash weapons reserved for PDF.

>>50163906
>let's arm the criminals and the prisoners that hates us and send them on the battlefield without any mean to control them.
Great idea.

>>50163948
>what was "36th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS"
>what was "Strafbattalion"
>what were "penal battalions"

>>50164056
>What is military discipline?
>What are commissars?
>What are explosive collars, combat drugs, and praecentors of penance?

>>50164160
Maybe you should google them, since you don't seem to understand how you can make people with no interest in fighting to fight for you.

>>50154562
Actually, there was a villian made of all the bits Deadpool lost in all his adventures. So there may be a being made of pieces from Wolverine hanging around.

Lasguns are LITERALLY as powerful as Grot Shootas, they just have twice the range and rapid fire instead of Assault 1.

>>50164200
You compared military penal units to engineers making levies.
When your specialty is putting mindwiping microships into people, it's way easier to actually do that than try to mimic the guard.

Same reason why they got servitors with incense burners. I doubt the incense burning quality is greatly improved compared to a regular human wawing it around, so it's probably a matter of cost and ideology.

>>50164350
Telling people you'll shoot them if they don't fight is cheaper than installing a microchip into each and every one of them.

>>50164483
Depends on the pay-grade of discipline officers vs the cost of microchips.

>>50164586
>pay-grade
>thinks Imperium pays their people shit

The cost of a discipline officer is not-bullet to the head. That's a negative cost to you.You get to keep the bullet as long as he's good. Microchips, on the other hand, cost design work, manufacturing, surgical installation, etc.

And all this is still ignoring the fact that Thralls are not conscripts with a ship in their head.

>>50150837
Its a great weapon. Its just that most characters in 40k media are poorly trained desperate fucks or are outmatched as they fight superheavies that they technically aren't meant for.

Have you read the Straken novels? Motherfuckers kill tyranid warriors and Orks no prob with their lasguns.

To be fair though, Catachan are the kind of dudes that grapple thropes to get their trophy knife kills.

But yeah, more experienced guardsman are damn effective with the simple lasgun.

>>50153575
Huh, I guess Anon finally got his central nervous system back

I always wondered but never got around to looking it up. Do lasguns work underwater?

>>50159586
Lucius pattern no.98 for their rank and file as opposed to the M36. It packs a bigger punch (around 1.5x the damage) drains the charge packs twice as fast. It is also only capable of semi auto fire as opposed to the m36 that can rock and roll, and has slightly higher chance of jamming when compared to the '36 (which translates to almost never as opposed to practically impossible).

Korpsmen are also known to love using the overcharge setting for an even more powerful bolt (enough to be actually capable of killing a necron in the right circumstances), and at this point its probably got 15~30 shots per charge pack as opposed to the M36's 100 shots that can go full auto.