40k Fluff: Must it always be GRIMDARK?!?!

>>50140953
I'm pretty new to 40k Lore myself Anon, but I have heard some good things about the Ciaphas Cain novels. One of them being that they tone down the Grimderp enough for the Imperium to actually be livable.

But honestly, I feel like the Grimdarkness of he Lore just depends on how it's executed and Whether or not it serves a purpose besides being edgy. For instance Kriegers, broken husks of men and women, forged into the ideal soldier who never live long enough to recover their humanity, are pretty fucking cool, and even Daemonculabas, despite being the height of /d/egeneracy, are justifiable in their existence as they were needed to make those Chaos Space Marines.

>>50140953
I'd love to read a 40k novel set on a world like ours and there's no actual war.

I want to see the perspective of a regular citizen on a world that isn't an irradiated smog-covered shithole. I essentially want a regular slice of life modern story just with 40k as the setting/backdrop.

It's rife for small details in society and government. I'd imagine it would feel a bit like the Starship Trooper movie backdrop, that of a dictatorship/military complex but civvie life isn't actually that bad at all and there's plenty of freedoms. Just don't work against the state or you're fucked and the government generally doesn't care if you die in a foreign war (much like the IG tithe). Now imagine IG vets in this (our) society, how much more contrasting they would be.

I find 40k runs on exaggeration, so making a novel that subtle and different would be an amazing exercise for any writer and rife for expansion.

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>>50140953
>Must it always be GRIMDARK
You are aware that the word "Grimdark" was coined by nerds on the internet from 40k's tagline, right?

The full spiel goes like this:

>It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

>Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

>To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

So yeah, as a general rule, Grimdark is mandatory.

Doesn't mean there's not a place for comedy or relationships though.

>Stat Wars fluff: must it always be so Star Warsy

Sadly yes. and it doesn't really bother me except for the fact that it makes the setting completely lose believablility all the time.

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>>50140953
Short anwser : Yes

Slightly longer anwser : I love 40k for its outragious ridiculousness, but it isn't made to be taken seriously even in the slightest.

>>50140953
>>50141620
>>50142963

Different strokes for different folks, but personally I've always cringed slightly at the "lol 40k is outrageous grimdark death metal fiction" idea. It has plenty of outrageousness, but it's also a dark and grand sci-fi setting with a lot of style and intrigue.

For starters, check out these novel series which cover regular-joe life, politics and culture in 40k (along with occasional death):

Gaunt's Ghosts
Eisenhorn
Ravenor
Ciphas Cain

Also Faith and Fire is another 40k novel that (whilst being based around people in power armour, in this case the Sororitas) is set within the context of a peaceful inhabited world with plenty of Ecclesiarchical politics.

>>50140953
Nobody wants to read warhammer fluff set on a quiet backwater agriworld where nothing bad ever happens and the most exciting thing that happens is that once per year an adeptus ministorum ship shows up to fill its cargo holds with grain before departing.

There are literally MILLIONS of worlds where life is pretty much just that. You dont read about such a world unless some 'nids have decided to stop for a snack, or a chaos warband passing by strongly felt that the locals didnt have enough gaping chest wounds for their liking.

Nobody wants to read 300 pages of bocephus the space-beet farmer and his very plain wife fixing tractors and sowing seeds for the annual space-beet harvest.

You only want to read about bocephus when he wakes up to a dark-eldar raiding party having "fun" with his livestock.

That being said, dan abnetts stuff tend's to shy away from TOO MUCH of the over-the-top brutal societey view. Most of the worlds in series like gaunts ghosts, eisenhorn, or ravenor seem quite pleasant, or atleast livable (or atleast WERE prior to whatever abomination's arrival to it) while also having plenty of miserable grim-dark locales as well.

>>50140953
I'm of the same opinion, a varied story is far more interesting than a monotone one.

I specially like it when heroism shines through against all odds in universes like 40K, were Chaos' final triumph seems innevitable.

Because of this, I wanted to paint some minis after the most noble and heroic of chapters, marines that not only are the unyielding champions of humanity, but also truly embody what it means to be human, with all its greatness and flaws.

But fuck me if I know what chapter fits the bill best. Could you anons help me out here?

>>50143420
Well kind of on the contrary, look at how comics have evolved by focusing on different genres instead of conscripting itself to spandex pulp. DC went a wild but creative direction by showing batman as a bitter, broken old man, or publishing a saga about a British terrorist set on taking down a fascist England.

I've read some of the Beast Rises novels and a few HH novels, and I think space marines are BA but I wonder if they can be so much more than 300 fill-ins. I like the mystery surrounding Cypher though. Honestly the only grimdark that is believable and compelling is the plight of the Eldar. I haven't read a more compelling codex than theirs. But then again they're aliens so reality is literally at the disposal of the author.

>>50143946
Salamanders imo fit that bill... or maybe ultra surfs. But Salamanders seem to be the noblest chapter that kind of sucks. DA are just incompetent dick bags trying to unfuck their fuckups

>>50140953
>But I was wondering if you think it could be more?
Why would it need to be more? Dune did that shit already.

The Rogue Trader RPG books are pretty upbeat. The campaigns have you visiting distant planets untouched by war or attending fancy parties. It's not entirely noblebright, but just because 40k is a death metal paradise hellscape doesn't mean there isn't any room for happiness and fun.

>>50145531
It's like Brutal Legend with bolters and pauldrons.

>>50142963
I love Homer's epics for their outragious ridiculousness, but they aren't made to be taken seriously even in the slightest.

>Also Faith and Fire is another 40k novel that (whilst being based around people in power armour, in this case the Sororitas) is set within the context of a peaceful inhabited world with plenty of Ecclesiarchical politics.
For the record, it's still pretty damn grimdark; among other things, there's a rather murdery religious festival at the beginning, and our protagonists participate in massacring an entire town later on.

>>50145835
>If I switch X with Y piece of acclaimed Historic Literature, the criticisms angainst X are automatically invalidated because they They obviously can't work against Y right?
>I mean it's not like Y could have aged poorly or have been famous for what it was compared to the things around it at the time period.

Nigga Homer's epics are given a lot of leeway because they were giant books with pretty good prose and a consistent story in a time when most people had the creativity and storytelling ability of a rock. A very dull rock. If any of them were to be subjected to modern standards of a good story, they would get a meh/10 or a "TL:DR".

Also the ancient Greeks were a bunch of cynical Emos. So yeah, you should take anything written by them with a Grain of Salt.

>>50146897
>Grain of Salt, important enough to be a proper noun

Mf, the Greeks placed great importance on stories, and the works of Homer have enough depth and detail to be engaging to modern audiences of all ages, when even more recent works are considered either painfully simple or obnoxiously overworked. The Odyssey and the Iliad are amazingly well-composed and memorable, even by modern standards.

Also I don't know if I'd call the ancient Greeks "cynical emos". Their stories seemed to be a very flashy and brightly-colored shade of cynical, and they liked seeing heroes kick as just as much as anybody, they just also liked heroes to work and suffer for victories. Similar to /tg/'s love for nobledark stuff.