Eclipse Phase General: Form your own faction edition Old th

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>>50136844
First for fuck Nazis and weebshit.

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Keep in mind the last thread talked about how you can fork yourself, psychosurgically alter that fork to make it loyal to you and have less empathy and fear of death, then fork the fork until you get a fork that is hardened to forking, then fork that indefinitely to put inside morphs. So if you wanted to form your own faction without having to be particularly charismatic, that's one way you could go about it.

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My personal faction would be done through the >>50136900 method, starting as a legitimate security business on Extropia. Keep doing jobs for money until I have enough resources and men to form my own habitat in the outer system. The asteroid belt has a lot of unused asteroids that can be hollowed out for habitat space and the ores refined or sold, so it shouldn't be too hard to find one. I would always maintain the legitimate business on Extropia, both for a source of extra income and for them coming to my defense if the other autonomists don't like my authoritarian regime (which would only be ruling over forks of myself).

The organization of the faction itself would be a full stratocracy, with me as the autarch, and the civilian aspects basically only existing to support the military. Uniforms would be pic related and color coded depending on the job (brown for non-combat, grey for army and navy, black for special forces, blue for military police/internal security). Military would emphasis defense, I wouldn't be picking fights with people, mostly just mining out new habitats and peacefully expanding. Morphs and equipment would be given based on the job they required.
>Brown-coats: Splicers and Mentons, basic kinetic weapons, civilian equipment
>Grey-coats: Splicers, railguns and grenades, heavy armor
>Black-coats: Furies and ghosts, upgraded railguns and grenades, battlesuits or HOPLITE suits
>Blue-coats: Observers and furies, energy weapons and non-lethal fighting equipment, heavy armor

Heavy emphasis would be placed on hardwiring and avoiding cyberbrains, making it difficult to hack our equipment and making us fight better against TITANs. Short term goals would be to expand until there isn't anywhere left to expand. Long (we're talking very long) term goals of the organization would to reclaim Earth and the sections of Mars that the TITANs have claimed. Even longer goals would be to wipe out transhumanism (a contradiction I'll explain later).

>>50136844
I realized a while ago that if you feel the need for yet another faction, you should just rewrite the setting. There aren't a lot of good places left in the Solar System for another faction to exist.

>>50136900
>hardened to forking
you only get 2 SV for knowing that you're a fork. It's not really worth it. Anyway, unless you're a jack-of-all-trades, your new "faction" is going to suck. Anything more than a squad is best done with enough different people that they can cover each others' weaknesses. In fact, hardening is hardly ever worth it, since it costs 15 Rez points to get that moxie back. That's just fucking terrible.

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>>50137131
Now, to explain my very long term goal of wiping out transhumanism, despite using transhumans consistently in my plans. The best way to explain myself would be to compare me to the Jovians. A Jovian looks at a fork in a biomorph and says that it is a soulless organism. On that I agree with him. He then goes on to say that it is an abomination that must be destroyed, but that is where I draw the line. A forked biomorph is nothing more and nothing less than an organic tool that ought to be used to serve humanity. In this case, through reclaiming our homeland and wiping out the TITAN threat.

I have no illusions about my mortality. When my flat dies, I die, forever. I still have a cortical stack and numerous backups so that my organization will outlast me, but make no mistake, there is no continuity of conscience after my death. I plan to have my cortical stack sleeved into something superior after death, maybe an exalt. After all, if my memories are going to be implanted into a soulless tool, it might as well be a long lasting and smart tool.

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>>50137195
You could always train one of the forks of you to get good at a particular skill, then just fork that fork a bunch of times. If you're a jack of all trades it will be quicker.

>>50137195
Just take fast learner and follow >>50137291 plan and you'll have specialists in no time.

How the hell do I make Eclipse Phase *work*?

The mechanics are a mess, the setting is too dense for any players I'd get and just about too dense for me, and I don't like FATE for an alternative.

>>50136844
What are the immediate problems that you'd face if you tried to:

Create Gamma/Delta/Beta forks and then remove 90% of the memories. What you do is harvest the emotions for later use. From there, you mix and match the skills of many such forks so that you create a pseudo-AI/Machine Spirit that you implant into a machine. This way you could have a sapient being that knows everything every member of the Hab knows/information is able to collect about anti-hacking and that is kind, gentle, and 100% loyal to your hab. Could that work? Could you do this millions of times to your home AI, to your weapons, to your everything? Implant hyperspecialized machine spirits that work?

>>50137444
As well, what issues would you face if you tried to (after cloning it) merge said forks with someone? To get the collective skills and whatnot? Could you merge a 'fork' made up of pure, distilled, calmness to feel calm?

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>>50136844
In honor of the 2016 Delta Green Shotgun Scenario Contest opening, here's one I made for Eclipse Phase.

>>50137413
>The mechanics are a mess
I wouldn't say that. Generic and uninspiring maybe but perfectly serviceable.

>setting is too dense
Try to narrow the scope of your campaign. Instead of jumping around the entire solar system limit the plot to a single habitat or sector of space. There's much less to memorize.

Whats the most popular ideology in eclipse phase?

>>50139323
Neoliberalism

>>50136900

The more of the same egos messing around, and getting notorious, will get someone to make a basilisk hack tailored for that line of egos.

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>>50139323

Your mom

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>>50140285
1) Basilisk hacks are TITAN tech, and unlikely to be messed around with by most people
2) I believe that a basilisk hack effects all people mostly equally, as the TITANs are able to use them on random strangers
3) Even if the #2 is false, the egos will gradually develop different experiences and change over time until the basilisk hack doesn't work on all of them

>>50140641
>1) Basilisk hacks are TITAN tech, and unlikely to be messed around with by most people
Wrong. According to X-Risks there are transhuman labs that make them

>2) I believe that a basilisk hack effects all people mostly equally, as the TITANs are able to use them on random strangers
Resistance to basilisk hacks in the game is calculated based on your primary statistics. Different people have different values for those statistics. Therefore basilisk hacks do not affect all people equally.

>3) Even if the #2 is false, the egos will gradually develop different experiences and change over time until the basilisk hack doesn't work on all of them
If you're letting your forks diverge to that point there's no reason to have forks. More to the point, divergence won't change their primary statistics, which is what is rolled against when they are exposed to a basilisk hack.

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>>50140870
Okay, so just put faraday cage mods on all your armor.

Also, the forks can diverge while staying loyal to you. While their experiences while alter their egos somewhat, the fundamental changes you made via psychosurgery will largely stay the same.

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>>50140870

>Wrong. According to X-Risks there are transhuman labs that make them

Actually, I believe X-Risks says the Basilisk Hack is still decades out for transhumans to properly reverse-engineer. Groups like Red-Five have access to already made TITAN hacks, and might be able to alter them (and counter them), but can't make them from "scratch" yet.

>>50141351

It's interesting /pol/ is turning out to be big proponents of AI suffrage.

>>50137324
Fast Learer doesn't give your more Rez points.

>>50137248
Get yourself genefixed. There's no reason to die of cancer except luddism. Changing cell replication regulation genes isn't going to affect your thought patters at all.

>>50137444
>harvest the emotions for later use
Nice try, Kyubey.

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>>50142659
Oh, right, totally forgot about genefixing, I'll be sure to do that. Okay, new very long term goals, kill all AGI's, uplifts, and non-human transhumans.

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>>50136844
New Canada. All the sentry bots are moos with stunners for eyes and antler mounted seekers.

>>50143993

I just had a sudden image in my head of uplifted mooses.

Oh god it's terrifying

this is what truly caused the fall,.

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>>50144027
You're in the wrong neighborhood, buddy >:(

>>50144027
Except moose are dumb, so they aren't candidates for uplifting. Heck, even pigs are a stretch. It's kind of bullshit that all of the neo-elephants died and somehow fucking dolphins and whales survived.

>>50144573
The Orion's Arm setting features uplifted actinopterygians, echinoderms, and even plants.

>>50144628
The Orion's Arm setting is fueled by space magic and LSD.

>>50144636
Also, AIs that make the TITANs look about as smart as a slime mold

Would Eclipse Phase be good for running a campaign in The Common Wealth Saga?

>>50144636
>>50144753
What? Isn't Orion's Arm supposed to be harder sci-fi than Eclipse Phase?

Found a good explanation of one reason why the x-ray FEL won't work as claimed.

http://what-if.xkcd.com/145/

>>50137413
GURPS actually can work okay as substitute. You'll need to delegate some advantages to "can easily buy with money or rep" department but overall it's not hard.

It will be somewhat unorthodox though with ST, DX and HT being just functions of the morph modified by familiarity penalties. But if master knows GURPS there should be no big problems.

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>>50145458
>supposed

>>50145458
It is in some ways, but they mostly boil down to assuming new high energy physics exists.

Of course as far as uplifting starfish goes there's no problem. It would just be a lot of work.

>>50145727
>But if master knows GURPS there should be no big problems.
Did you just come from a game of MAID or something?

>>50145476
I don't think it works like this for lasers as they are specifically have different ways of amplifying their respective EM waves.

>>50146105
Nah. Though I once tried DMing Rokugan in GURPS.

>>50146303
But they don't have a different way to focus them

>>50146617
Well then if scientist made such a big mistake the maximum energy per cm^2 is around 1kJ and it takes around 50 seconds to vaporise 1 cm^3 of iron. (Actually more because a lot of energy of x-rays will go deeper into the material.)

>>50146729
It seems someone is forgetting about q switching

Unfortunately, you can't do neat tricks like that with x-rays because you would need an x-ray mirror

>>50136898
>says fuck weebshit
>posts weebshit

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>>50137131
>>50137248
>>50147211
Oops, almost forgot to include the psychological warfare unit, the loli brigade. Made entirely of neotenics with appropriate altered AGI's and nazi-esque uniforms (as shown above), they will mostly confuse the hell out of the enemy. They are there entirely to amuse me and toy with my enemies, because once your a dictator with your own private army who's gonna tell you to stop?

>>50147211
Although the artist isn't Japanese, there is clearly a lot of Japanese influence in her work.

>>50147337
>They are there entirely to amuse me
lewd

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>>50147351
Not everything's sexual you know. You telling me you wouldn't want to see a bunch of cute girls doing cute warfare things in the name of their glorious autarch?

>>50147386
Could you tell me that you wouldn't want to give them the dick afterward?

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>>50147419
Of course not, it's not a sex thing. I'd say it's actually more of a paternal thing, like their your daughters or something.

>>50145476
In a free electron laser, the light source is a particle beam with a temperature measured in mega-electronvolts. At 1MeV you have a 'surface temperature' of about 116 billion degrees, which in Boltzmann's equation gives you a maximum power intensity with 37 zeros behind it. The starting entropy is low enough that thermodynamics isn't a limiting factor.

Ok, so here's a question. Can 2 hackers come into contact with one another while infiltrating? Like, you know that one scene from Life of Brian where the two groups of jews bump into each other while trying to sneak in the palace? Kinda like that but in cyberspace. Is that doable?

>>50148104
The temperature thing is only relevant for blackbody sources. The energy flux per unit area at the focal point can't exceed that at the source. For a kilometer-long FEL that's going to mean a focal size considerably bigger than 5 cm, even with ideal optics (which it would come nowhere near approximating, for obvious reasons)

>>50148355
Absolutely doable. I know a guy who this once happened to, but I don't remember the details and didn't understand in any case.

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So there's basically no real advantages to the Jovian's insistence on bioconservatism right? The hardwiring and lack of cyberbrains obviously gives them an advantage against hacking and TITANs, but the bioconservatism itself (no furies, biomods, etc) is just one big disadvantage right?

>>50148790

From a purely statistical point, yes. The Jovian government is precautionist, not bioconservative though. But still, yes, the benefits to such activity are more intangible or security-based than results-based.

>>50148790
>The hardwiring and lack of cyberbrains obviously gives them an advantage against hacking and TITANs
Eh. You can air gap a cyberbrain pretty easily.

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>>50148828
Honestly, I feel like one thing that could make the Jovian's better in the game is if the viewed the bioware and cyberware as temporary equipment to be put on then taken off when you retire as a soldier, rather than this "hurr durr I'm damning myself to hell for my country" kind of attitude. I mean, the basic biomods are basically just modified viruses and bacteria anyways, I could easily see a bioconservative looking at the bioware as organic equipment that they equip, and the cyberware is literally just mostly stuff ectos can do but ingrained into your body. It's not like your altering your genetic code or playing God or resleeving in any of those cases.

>>50149012

Well, cyber is pretty versatile and seen as pretty common - so long as it's not brain-based there's probably not some big soul-rending doubt about it. Neural augments are more dangerous, but I think that's even reflected in their descriptions.

>>50149012
>"hurr durr I'm damning myself to hell for my country"
They don't think of themselves as damned because of mods. At least not most of them. The real reason is backups. Professional operative or elite soldier is too valuable a tool to throw away just because he died. And many of them probably used them more than once considering that many transhumans don't have any problems with going the suicide terrorist route.

That's the part that of the work that military doesn't like but has to put up with.

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>>50149380
I am curious how they view backups. Do they consider backups to be soulless organisms that just happen to have the memories of the previous soldier, or do they consider them a brand new person that also just happens to have the memories of the soldier. Do they put the backups in flats, or do they go full transhumanism in furies and such.

For that matter, if you're already willing to grow a new soldier and fit him with the memories of the old one, why not just fork him and have 100 copies of him running around?

>>50149460
Soulless simulacra of the person who died.

Why not fork him? Because he can't catch his own mistakes. Do remember that people generally aren't keen on permanent forking.

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>>50149515
This does make me curious on what the Catholic Church's stance on such issues would be (given that most of the Jovian's are Catholic). I know that they certainly wouldn't view the AGI's and uplifts as having immortal souls, but what about vat-grown people? I know that they view the soul as being received upon conception, so I wonder how that would translate to a exo-womb grown human. Would that mean they only view natural born people as having souls?

I kind of touched on this a little bit on >>50137248

Also, what do you mean "he can't catch his own mistakes". I'm a little confused by that statement. Couldn't that be solved through XP sharing and merging (if that's relevant).

>>50149460
Books are extremely vague on the point of how they see it. Just that not good. So particulars probably up to DM depending on which Jovian faction is asked.

>>50149645
>Couldn't that be solved through XP sharing and merging (if that's relevant).
It's a little too late for that during operation. Squads forked from one person would in many cases have habits and biases that are not that hard to catch. With multiple people they cover each others asses.

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>>50149696
So couldn't they fork the squads then? Fork 10 copies of each soldier, jumble them up so that no 2 squads are the same, then send them out on various operations?

>>50149719
Possible. That's probably what those keen on transhumanism do.

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>>50149760
Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned above (>>50137248
) If you're gonna view the forks as soulless organisms, then you might as well treat them as such. Disposable soldiers who you can put into ghosts, furies, and reapers. They're basically organic tools to be used at your discretion.

In fact, the books mention 5 factions and one of them is the reformists, who argue that certain restrictions ought to be loosened. While the book then details them talking about resleeving centers and nano-tech (which goes against everything the Jovian's are about), in my headcannon these are the guys going "Okay, if we want to win this war we're going to have to use the tools of the enemy. It's not like they're real people anyways, and it'll save us a lot on manpower."

>>50149719
>>50149696
People like being unique, though. There aren't a lot of people who are too keen on there being dozens of other thems running around, some just plain better than they are.

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>>50149985
Yeah, that's true, you'd probably have to look for volunteers, although I'm sure some soldiers would be willing to allow their superior doppleganger to run around killing transhumans and TITANs for the cause (or monetary compensation), especially if it meant that it might save lives. Still, I understand the point you're making.

tfw /nogames/

How do I even play a mercurial? Do they have a system-wide web of facilities I can use? Should they be devoted to a cause or just generally in favor of uplifting?

Seems like they're there just to be.. there.

>>50151606
Mercurials aren't necessarily uplifts. They just don't believe in "humanity".

>>50151717
Uplifts and AGI.

>>50151606
>>50151717
>>50152681
I'm not the only one who thinks the uplifts come off as total a-holes right? It seems like everytime we hear about them they're just complaining about how people don't like them, or the world is human centered, or the morphs aren't made for them. Like, we didn't even have to uplift you guys at all, you apes were perfectly content throwing crap at each other all day, and now that you're here, you don't integrate into our society, and all you do is moan all day.

>>50153596
Yeah, you're probably one of the few who is such a huge cunt. Thinking uplifts should integrate is one thing, but thinking they're assholes because they haven't done it yet is quite another.

>>50153596
>Like, we didn't even have to uplift you guys at all, you apes were perfectly content throwing crap at each other all day,

Yeah, exactly. Don't act like you're the victim here. They were perfectly happy living their lives as they were. They didn't need all the freakish mutations and bionics. They have them now, and must live with them, but it wasn't what they wanted for themselves. They're now completely divorced from their original species so they can't go back. You took them from what should have been their lives--all for your own pleasure. Don't get in your feelings when they don't just fit neatly into your little pre-planned box.

>>50153596
>I'm not the only one who thinks the uplifts come off as total a-holes right?

Right. The demand that they be treated like everyone else combined with the demand that everyone acknowledge what special and unique snowflakes they are is shrill and grating.

>>50154818
But here's the fantastic thing, they can revert back at any time, yet they choose not to. Strange huh? They could join a primitivist group and find a nice land to be dumb in, but yet they decide that benefiting from human society is better, yet they still complain.

>>50154958
That's actually mentioned at one point in the books (or at least the wiki)
>"Naturally Extropia attracts a large number of uplifts. Hell, Extropia attracts a large number of just about anything. The boom-town feel and easy-come, easy-go attitude that reigns over the place is often a refreshing change for uplifts from the inner system who are used to being judged not on what they can bring to any given business proposition, but rather on their appearance or ancestry. In Extropia, most people could care less who you are or where you came from as long as you can back up whatever you happen to be selling. But for these reasons it also tends to be avoided by uplifts. A lot of us want to believe that we’re special, that there’s something more to us than other transhumans, and Extropia is not the kind of place that goes out of its way to make you feel welcome."
So yeah, you're pretty spot on

>>50154958

>The demand that they be treated like everyone

Sapients.

>demand that everyone acknowledge what special and unique snowflakes

Mercurials.

Next you'll tell me an Octopus and a Dolphin are the same thing because they like water.

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>>50147337
Isn't it kind of weird how a neotenic is more capable than a fully grown flat, including in physical strength? Like, I understand it has some mods and gene altering, but come on, that might be taking it a bit far

>>50155305

Isn't a Neotenic max aptitude 20 in SOM like all the other small morphs?

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>>50155347
Yeah, but that's the max for fully grown flats as well (look at the Jovian spy, that guy's no weakling) and they have 10 better attributes in every other category over flats.

>>50154983
> They're now completely divorced from their original species so they can't go back.

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>>50155305
>>50155382
When you take into account that a vat grown neotenic body doesn't have to use inferior human style muscle tissue and can use, say, high density chained protein musculature similar to that of arthropods and be modified for higher oxygenation of muscle tissue, denser bone structure and more dense neural branching for better nervous systems, then it makes perfect sense that they'd be better than flats in every way despite being smaller.

>>50155430

>https://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com/Naturalists

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>>50155494
Oh, right. I sometimes forget the extant to which the transhumans have been modified.

>>50155528
>>50155494

I mean, if nothing else, anything at Exalt+ level (which I believe the Neotenic is similar to) should basically be seen as "what if we took the best genes for any part of a human ever and put them all in one human?" And then basically artificial optimization goes on top of that.

Also, carrying capacity is SOM and DUR interlinked.

>>50154958
So they're "feminists".

>>50155347
They changed their minds by Transhuman. The max SOM for small morphs is 25 going by the morph creation rules. Just use the Neotenic variant template on an Exalt to get a superior Neotenic than the one they statted in the original rules: the max SOM is 5 higher and it's only 10 CP, not to mention the bonuses are all floating.

>>50155561
Neotenics are literally Reduced Size Exalts with Social Stigma, and three +5 fixed stats with only one floating +5.

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>>50155765
So, what are neotenics used for anyways in the game? It's not like most people are gonna fall for you pretending to be a kid, since being a child is basically optional at this point anyways. So what are they used for? Aside from the loli brigade of course.

>>50155928
I think it's really a stylistic choice, or worse, having to replace the body of a child. Isn't there an Eclipse Phase meme around Neotenic Oligarchs?

>>50155965

One of the sample characters in sunward is a an Oligarch in a neotenic. Presumably shes trying to overcome immortality blues by a return to figurative Youth.

>>50155928

Saves space and resources, a positive in vacuum living.

>>50139323
In terms of raw manpower controlled, probably hypercapitalism. I mean, indentures probably don't *like* hypercapitalism, but the fact they signed those contracts indicate that they at least prefer it to the alternatives.

>>50145458
No.

How the shit are criminal groups still so prevalent when practically everywhere is being recorded/watched?

>>50156211
No one cares about crime in the future because everyone is a criminal.

>>50156252
That's rather boring. They have fairly interesting and rather cyberpunk crime groups in the Inner System. How do they pull that shit off?

>>50156307
I think the next book will go into greater detail regarding crime in the solar system. Hopefully they expand on my favorite crime group, Pax Familae.

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>>50156535

Best Pax.

>>50156535
They're my favourite too. It's like this weird incestual narcissistic thing that I love. I describe them as all looking like siblings, some like twins, and they're all quite close. I had an idea for a game where the players need to help a fork of the Pax Familiae escape to the outer system, as it's become such an individual it doesn't want to live a life of crime.

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Hey, since there's been a bit of a lull let's get back to the "form your own faction" part of the thread.

How would you go about it, and what would it look it? Keep in mind, it doesn't have to be a particularly large faction.

>>50156535
Is there an ETA on the next books release?

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>>50157689
No, we don't even know the books name yet.

>>50155213
>Next you'll tell me an Octopus and a Dolphin are the same thing because they like water.

The first are psychopaths and the second are murderers and rapists. Both are abominations that need to be removed from the world.

>>50155027
Extropia is the most horrible place in the setting. It combines the worst aspects of both anarchism and hypercapitalism.

>>50148492
True for incoherent light sources, but that's because the photons are out of phase and will interfere destructively if you focus them onto a single point. Lasers don't have that problem, which is why you can cut focus a laser to cut metal but not a light bulb.

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>>50157757
>Both are abominations that need to be removed from the world.
Agreed, no arguments here.
>It combines the worst aspects of both anarchism and hypercapitalism
Gonna have to disagree with you on that. While I don't like anarchism, I hate the reputation system even more.

>>50157928
>>50157757
Please, Anons, teach me how to hate things like you do in Eclipse Phase. I just can't seem to get worked up enough to consider things abominations.

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>>50158299
Basically, it all comes down to 3 different reasons you can hate everybody.

1) Are you religious? If so, then ask yourself if the transhumans have souls. If you're Catholic (best religion), the answer is no. Because the answer is no, the transhumans, uplifts, and AGI's are all soulless abominations that take resources that should be going to real people.

2) Do you believe in continuity of conscience after sleeving between morphs? If the answer is no (and there's no reason for it to be yes), then almost everyone in the Eclipse Phase universe commits suicide on a regular basis, and there's no reason to feel guilty about killing them since they were going to do it themselves after lunch probably.

3) Does everyone in Eclipse Phase seem terrible to you? No? Well they should. There's the Planetary Consortium, capitalistic exploitation in its rawest and ugliest form. There's the Titanians, mob rule that does some surprisingly disturbing and authoritarian stuff. There's the socialist anarchists, social justice warriors who will ensure you live like a peasant if you don't live the way they want you to live. There's the Mercurials, largely occupied by AGI's and uplifts, which we already detailed our hatred for in >>50153596 >>50154958 and >>50157757. There's the Jovian's, people whom I agree with in spirit, but their methods and strategy is terrible. There's the Scum, where degeneracy abounds like a modern Sodom and Gomorrah. Everyone else isn't too bad, but they still fall victim to the frequent suicides and lack of souls.

Hatred isn't a bad thing all the time anon, you just need to be hating the right things.

>>50158299
>Please, Anons, teach me how to hate things like you do in Eclipse Phase

I don't think you understand. I don't hate them in Eclipse Phase, I hate them in real life. Chimps even more so.

>>50158621
>I don't hate them in Eclipse Phase, I hate them in real life. Chimps even more so.

Ah, so you're one of those self-loathing types, huh?

>>50155928
I'm certain that actual children are still a thing, since using neotenics at all is a social stigma in many circles, more so in the more disgusting ones.

>>50156535
>>50156619
>>50156641
They're extremely vulnerable. If you forknap one of them, not only do you know a whole lot of their secrets, but you can figure out just what it takes to break them easily.

>>50158589
>continuity of conscience
This reminds me of my hatred for illiterate know-it-alls who think continuity of consciousness happens at all

>>50159759
>>50137248
You do mean consciousness, right? I really hope so.

>>50158621
So, wait, you're one of those types that legit drag their fuck awful views into games? Like one of those guys you read about that won't play D&D because it doesn't let you worship Jesus?

>>50160472
There's a reason no-one here can actually find games.

>>50158621
Humans >> Elephants > Whales > some Porpoises > Pigs > Parrots > Chimps > Apes >> Bonobos > Orangutans > Orcas > Bottle-nosed Rapists >> Neandercucks

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>>50160503
There's surely got to be somebody who'd be up for GMing a game for them. The plot for a Jovian Stormtrooper game practically writes itself. Plus, if you're just doing it online via text without video, you won't even have to see them masturbating furiously while their characters take it in turns to kick an uplifted octopus to death.

>>50160873
I might consider it, but I fear I wouldn't be able to resist the urge to have their characters brutally massacred by ancient, muscular Aztec vampires.

>>50160873
I feel like a better game than the Jovian stormtroopers would be a squad of forked Jovian's sent on suicide missions in transhuman morphs. The soldiers would see themselves as soulless machines, and would capable of blending in while sabotaging transhuman habitats and factions.

My faction would be a subset of exhumans recognizing that the social nature of man was one of the primary, if not the definite, evolutionary advantage allowing it to flourish. High intelligence is a feature not unique to homo sapiens, and neither is tool use. However, humans possess an unparalleled ability to disseminate information among each other through language. Not only does this allow to raise the efficiency of aforementioned traits by an order of magnitude, it also makes it easy to create organizational structures that are highly efficient and persistent. Additionally, knowledge is spread easily and persists despite an individual's death, allowing progress despite individual limitations. Division of labor allows for efficiency that is ever beyond the reach of a single individual.

Therefore, it makes little sense to abandon the advantages of society for the sake of poorly-understood nihilism. Pack hunters will always outperform the solitaire, and the hunt for apotheosis is no different.

Many exhumans raise a concern about civilization as a means for subordinating the weak to a privileged few, and it is a perfectly valid one. What strikes me as odd, however, is their unequivocal rejection of the concept, without recognizing that it is an immensely useful arrangement for those at the top. Imagine what a PC oligarch who decided to go exhuman would be able to do.

On the practical side, the faction would be composed of two layers - the exhuman collective, and the subordinate population, most of which believes itself to be an independent brinker habitat.

>>50161115
The purpose of the latter is to provide various things the exhumans need: cover, test subjects, disposable servants, new recruits, labor, entertainment, etc. Outwardly, they appear to be a heavily authoritarian, bioconservative society not interested in contact with the solar system. Access to nanotechnology is strictly reglamented, surveillance is omnipresent and most morphs are flats, all for security reasons. Technologies like AGI, uplift or resleeving are banned, and their products confiscated never to be seen again. The habitat's population is notably religious(Protestant), ensuring the technological status quo.

All of this is of course by design, so that the herd can be easily subdued in case anything goes wrong. Though the exhumans are less than 1% of the population, they can easily overwhelm the rest of the habitat on their own. Additionally, most members of the authorities are psychosurgerized for unquestioning obedience or outright replaced by exhuman forks. In case of an emergency, the entire station can be flooded with nerve agents.

Beneath this facade, steering it through "elected" government and local corps, is the exhuman clique. Membership is voluntary, but requires a substantial contribution to ensuring the group's survival or equivalent, and consent to donate one's fork for the dispute resolution mechanism. Once they do this, they are free to start projects, invite guests for a limited amount of time, and generally do anything they want that doesn't compromise the group, including leaving.

>>50161121
Most faction activities are conducted in the form of projects, where any number of exhumans commission the habitat's resources for research and development related to furthering their goals. Anyone can join and contribute to a project, as well as make use of its results. It is expected that one contributes at least as much as they use from the projects' achievements, and faction members police each other extensively for cases of leeching. In case of a shortage in habitat's resources, everyone is expected to make a substantial effort to end it, either by cutting their own expenditures or making a positive contribution.

Conflicts between exhumans are resolved through the dispute resolution mechanism, a 60x accelerated simspace where alpha forks of all the faction debate and negotiate until they reach consensus, usually the solution least detrimental to the interests of all interested parties. In cases consensus can't be reached, the outcome is decided by a contest, usually a duel to the death. Outside of duels, violence against exhumans is prohibited and the punishment is appropriation of the ego, all backups, and all possessions by the faction. Some cases arose where such harsh punishment was deemed detrimental to the faction and ongoing projects, however, and thus a milder penalty of forced sleeving into a flat and living with the herd for a limited period of time was created.

>>50161112
That would probably go down better. Using the tools of their enemies will sound appealing, all the while allowing them to guiltily enjoy the things they profess to hate.

>It's not really enjoying transhumanism if you only masturbate to synth-on-flat porn!

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>>50161594
Well, if someone told me I was a soulless clone of the real me, I wouldn't get all emo and depressed. I'd accept the fact that I am expendable, realize that means I can't go to Hell, masturbate guilt free, then go and do my job while allowing the ends to justify the means because, once again, no Hell to worry about.

>>50161632
I'd ask whether or not you noticed I was talking about the players fapping, not the player characters, but I know there's some seriously weird crossover shit going on here that blurs the lines between "character" and "player".

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>>50161687
Well obviously I wouldn't fap in real life, but much of the time in these games your character will more or less be a self insert.

>>50156126
>Saves space and resources, a positive in vacuum living.
If they have mentioned "super" muscles and all other stuff there is no way they will save resources over a flat.

>>50156988
One space ship of around 30 meters in length is more than enough to start a faction. Or at least to make a foundation. You get fusion reactor, radiators, ability to gather resources from nearby asteroids and more than enough space to cram a couple of nanohives and miner robots.

After that you need only to chose some rock where no one will try to kill you in the next couple of months. Yeah creating a hab won't be that fast but in half a year you should be able to create something reasonable and start populating it through a chosen method.

>>50161728
Maybe if you're a total fucking pleb who can't act to save his life. But not all of us are so disabled.

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>>50161810
Well obviously you're going to be acting no matter who you are in the game, but generally speaking there's a tendency for players to join the faction they think is the most interesting or closest to their views. This is not exactly a new phenomenon.

>>50158299
Knowledge. Some people say that if you know your neighbour you will love them. They are WRONG! Knowing most people doesn't lead to love it leads to hatred. And knowing their reasons for doing something that you don't agree with just makes you able to logically show the steps that led you to hate them.

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Is there a specific ship and/or ambassador of the Factors that does trading with the PC? I need to know because I'm doing a plot that involves the Factors coming back for trading.

On a related note, is any specific information given on Factor weaponry?

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>>50162202

X-Risks has what you need, bro.

>>50161853
Having presumably never managed to find a GM that'd be willing to put up with you only being able to play a self-insert of yourself in a game, I wonder just how far up your arse you had to reach in order to pull out that conclusion.

>>50162294
Yeah, I've been looking through it, haven't found anything yet though.

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>>50162317
Well obviously you don't self insert yourself into every game idiot, but if you can't stand uplifts or Titanians chances are you aren't gonna be playing uplifts or Titanians. Do you get butthurt whenever someone decides to play a human in D&D as well?

>>50162385
Ah, but the great actors are able to portray even the types of being that they cannot stand. Are you fine with simply being mediocre?

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>>50162453
I like having fun in my games, so I'm not gonna suffer through a playstyle or character type I can't stand for the sake of diversity. I'll play AGI's, bioconservatives, synths, pods and infomorphs, but uplifts just annoy me. Pretending to be an uppity ape that wines all day cause he isn't being treated like the special little snowflake he is is not the kind of character I want to play.

>>50162385
>Do you get butthurt whenever someone decides to play a human in D&D as well?

Not unless they're the sort of player who gets bizarrely angry about fictional things in a game, and then can't play a character that doesn't share their own views, nah. It'd be like going "well, is it wrong to play a character that hates halflings?"

Of course it's fine to play a character that hates halflings. But when most of your characters you make hates halflings, you write long diatribes on anonymous image boards about halflings about how much you hate them, then it starts becoming something of a problem.

>>50162500
>Pretending to be an uppity ape that wines all day cause he isn't being treated like the special little snowflake he is is not the kind of character I want to play.
Then don't. Play as a humble uplift who hates the idea of "uplift culture" or acts like a marry sue. Play as an uplift who thinks group identity does nothing but divide.

>>50162500
>Pretending to be an uppity ape that wines all day cause he isn't being treated like the special little snowflake he is is not the kind of character I want to play.

Well, the trick there is to stop assuming that's what uplifts must be like, surely? It's like you've invented a really fucking weird negative stereotype of what they're like, and now you're telling us that you can't play them because they must be played in this stereotypical way you've concocted.

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>>50162530
Okay, are we talking real life or in game here now? Cause in real life I would hate the AGI's and TITANs and uplifts, but in game my character usually won't be like that except on the occasional bioconservative game.

>>50162561
Better yet, play a Neo-hominid Uplift that understands where it and humans came from, and regards itself as part of Transhumanity, as human.

You can even get atleast a splicer morph later if you want.

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>>50162586
That would be an interesting playthrough I'll admit. The other examples people gave seemed boring or cliche, but I like this idea. I just have to get into the somewhat alien mindset of an uplift.

>>50162622
>I just have to get into the somewhat alien mindset of an uplift.
Uplifts are made with human neural architecture, they're not as alien as you think. The problem comes when you consider that psychosurgery isn't perfect, and uplifts still maintain some of their traits as a result (Octopi usually don't like socialization, Crows are materialistic hoarders, etc). This is the basis of uplift struggles, are you really you? Or are you just a product of humans playing god? Are you a person born without purpose? Or are you just a lab rat made to further advance a species you never belonged to? Will you embrace your animal instincts and heritage and join mercurial culture? Or are they just flaws you need to get past in order to be civilized like humans?

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>>50162530
I'm not talking about being OCD about your characters, I'm talking about having preferences. If I'm playing D&D, I like playing fighters, clerics, paladins, and necromancers, and I like being humans or dwarves. That's 8 different combinations before you get into the subtypes and various character motivations each person can have. Sure, I could play a barbarian, but I try not to if it's not needed. Is that really a huge problem over on /tg/?

>>50162743
>Uplifts are made with human neural architecture

I always thought it was changing animal neural architecture to be closer to a human model? This is why it's really only been effective with "smart" animals.

>>50162804
Yeah, they change the animals architecture so it reflects human architecture. That's why every uplifted species was chosen, they already showed similar levels of intelligence, so that's just less things to edit.

>>50162760
>I'm talking about having preferences

But what if the player hated bards? You could play a fighter, a cleric, a paladin, a necromancer, in both human and dwarf varieties - but all of the characters hate bards, because the player believes that all bards in the game world are whining attention whores.

>>50162852
As I misunderstood. I thought you were implying the reverse for some strange reason.

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>>50162861
Well that would be a problem if the player did that, but that's not what I was talking about.

>>50162901
>Both [uplifts] are abominations that need to be removed from the world.

>Pretending to be an uppity ape that wines all day cause he isn't being treated like the special little snowflake he is is not the kind of character I want to play.

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>>50162935
Okay, there obviously has been a miscommunication here. The first was statement was a real life statement, not a character one. That's my opinion on the uplifts and AGI's if I was living in the Eclipse Phase universe, but that doesn't mean that it is my character's opinion of AGI's and uplifts.

The 2nd statement was just the impression I got of them from the books, although I can subvert that stereotype, just like you can be a Jovian who really likes transhumanism and hates religion, but it would have to be done well to avoid being cliche.

>>50162991
>That's my opinion on the uplifts and AGI's if I was living in the Eclipse Phase universe, but that doesn't mean that it is my character's opinion of AGI's and uplifts.

What's your opinion on uplifts and AGIs as presented in Eclipse Phase?

Not in terms of what opinion you might hold of them if you were in the game, but what you think about them. Like how you might have an opinion, to borrow D&D examples to illustrate, of how gnomes are represented in the game - not from the perspective of the imagined-you-as-it-would-exist-as-if-it-were-a-character-in-the-game-world, but you, the poster.

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>>50163178
Uplifts are good, I like that they retain some of their animalistic instincts, but I don't understand why there are so many of them. It seems like transhumanity is just uplifting animals for the sake of uplifting them, and when there are so many infugees still waiting on bodies it seems irrational.

AGI's are okay, but I feel like there isn't enough diversity shown in them. They are shown to be naive, very work oriented "people", that often fight for synth and AGI rights. What I don't understand is why there aren't more types. What's to keep me from programming an AGI that doesn't want rights, or isn't naive but psychopathic, or likes slavery? It focuses too much on making AGI's like people that it forgets that they're not and they would only have the mindset we allow their programming to have.

>>50163269
I've seen a paranoid controller type AGI character. He was created by Consortium and of course got a lot of blocks on what he can and can't do. By the start of the game blocks were gone and player was going the route of a freak with a desire to control everything around him. So that Consortium couldn't catch him.

>>50163269

AGI are typically based on other neural networks, normally humans, and not quite "programmed" in ways other than say, children are programmed, but they don't have to wait for their brains to develop all the way. So yeah, via psychosurgery you can build AGI with certain outlooks but generally they develop along the lines of people - but tend to develop natural affinities with computers and machines, and because you know what you're cultivating you can gear them to specific tasks - like humanities or computers.

ALI already exist.

Also, you're a shit person, and I want you to get the fuck out, but that does not invalidate some of your points

>>50163269
Hopefully you can understand my confusion, then, when your...

>real life statement

...was not your real life opinion on uplifts and AGIs? Because if we're rambling on about the problems of being unwilling to play characters that don't align with the views of the player behind the character, I find it difficult to follow when you present an in-character viewpoint ("as if I was living in the Eclipse Phase universe") as your own viewpoint as a person (the "real life statement" sort of thing).

>What's to keep me from programming an AGI that doesn't want rights, or isn't naive but psychopathic, or likes slavery?

Absolutely nothing, really. I don't really get to read about many non-AGIs in the game that don't want rights though either - presumably it's partly down to the authors not really thinking that people would want to read about that sort of thing in their books, rather than them not existing at all in the setting. I don't think I've read a particularly good explanation of how plumbing works in Lunar habitats, but with their hard-on for biomorphs, there's got to be some waste management in place.

>>50163431
>"Also, you're a shit person, and I want you to get the fuck out, but that does not invalidate some of your points"
Calm down there gizmo, explain what it is you detest about me? I certainly don't detest you.

>>50161115
Rorties, Soul-Eaters, and Synergists already exist. Social Exhumans aren't some kind of unfilled niche.

Anyway, you're not describing Exhumans, you're describing the Jovian Republic.

>>50136844
Rorties subscribe to a particular version of exhumanism, Synergists are a hivemind(and not really exhumans I think), and soul-eaters aren't really social. What I wanted was a group that would be diverse in its exhumanism, and kind of centered around the concept itself, instead of any particular expression of it. I suppose Empusae are the sort of thing I was going for here, but there's only a paragraph about them. As someone said earlier, the setting doesn't really leave much room for unique faction concepts.
>Anyway, you're not describing Exhumans, you're describing the Jovian Republic.
I didn't really think about it like that, I just figured that sort of population would be the best at being kept down and unaware of what's actually going on, though it's reeally tempting to see things that way.
>if I'm already a soulless program inside a clone, what's stopping me rom becoming a god?

>>50165714
Was meant for
>>50164618

>>50157867
If you think an x-ray FEL is a coherent source then I have some really bad news for you. It's only a little more coherent than a flashlight.

>>50161748
You're dramatically overestimating the design efficiency of the human body.

>>50168104
Not that much. If you want your neotenic to be more powerful than flat you need around 4 times more effective muscles.

Chimps and orangutans for example weight almost as much or more than humans and not all of their muscles are more effective than ours.

What's your favourite region to set games in? Mine is the Inner System as it's the most "cyberpunk" and has the most potential for conflict.

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>>50169945
Earth during the Fall.

JK, seriously though, they should make a new book with details on that period and rules for mass combat and space combat. That would be great.

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>>50169073
Man, Venus fucking sucks.

Also, post Ultimates. Does anyone have the picture of the mummified Nazi in a Buddhist shrine?

>>50169945
Gatecrashing and exoplanets. The solar system is nice, but I like being able to do space Mountains Of Madness.

>>50169289
Yeah but those muscles don't need to get used to full potential all the time, and probably still don't need much more calories when used at full potential.

Armwrestle a chimp for me.

>>50169945
Scum swarms.

>>50169961
It literally looks like shit and piss.

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Hey /epg/, would you rather live under the governance of your least favorite faction, or Donald Trump?

>>50172166
Trump by a large margin

>>50172166
I would rather live under the governance of Trump than live under the governance of my favorite faction.

>>50172166
Trump, obviously. Seriously, "least favourite faction" is so fucked up it's beyond belief.

>>50172819
>than live under the governance of my favorite faction.
I'm curious to know what your favorite faction is. Ultimates?

>>50172940
Yeah, the Junta is just Trump without the fun.

>>50173227
Also, considerably worse living conditions

>>50173242
Until the global recession Trump is going to spark catches fire,

>>50173277
Even Trump can't make Earth's life support systems crap out

>>50173277
Also, global recession? Asia won't even notice.

I learned something today. The Rorties are named after Richard Rorty, an early proponent of eliminative materialism, a position in the philosophy of the mind which I ascribe to.

So is there an actual reason the Reagan Cylinders are shitty places to live other than "oh no its life support doesn't use nanotech"? As far as I'm concerned life support in most of the solar system doesn't use nanotech at all. Unless we're saying the Jovians distrust plants in their usage of life support which is fucking stupid. If anything, biology should be one of their biggest fields.

>>50174843

Reagan Cylinders were designed and built by lowest-bid government contracts for spartan military/research purposes - like a few inner system cylinders they're pretty grossly over their recommended population and usage in some areas. You can fix this problem with nanotech integration, Jove does not.

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>>50174843
It's not the habitats so much as the people in them. They live in space as they lived on Earth

Does the average moderated skilled citizen have a better quality of life in the PC, Extropia, an Anarchist Hab, Titan, or the Jovian Republic?

>>50174916
Which book is that in? One of the newer ones?

Although apparently Panopticon answered part of my original question:

>The problem is that Jovian investment in environmental systems is
minimal and their suspicion of nanotechnology and biosystems precludes use of advanced life support that
would make the Reagan cylinders a pleasant place to live

Except MOST of the solar system does not use biosystems (MeatHab is one of the very few that does) or nanotech so I still don't know why they'd expect the Junta to do the same. Jovian investment in life support and environmental systems should be one of their biggest priorities, surely you can think of a workaround that doesn't involve hanging orfices and organs around your habitat, or using on a large scale the same type of nanites that the TITANs subverted to cripple the life support systems of entire habitats during the Fall?

Like fuck, I'm not one of those "JOVIAN STRONK" weirdos but that still sounds retarded. I'd be willing to believe that their life support is currently being strained by the fact that the Cylinders were built for spartan/scientific purposes and can't handle the current population levels, but surely in 10 AF they'd have tried doing something to fix that?

>>50174989
Is that not how people also live in O'Neil Cylinders? Green fields, commercial and industrial districts, etc.? Didn't Panopticon mention that people can keep livestock in them too?

>>50175021
Someone who's just average will probably be most comfortable in the PC. Titan is better for someone who's below average in several significant ways while the various flavors of anarchism tend to accommodate people who are significantly above average or at least think they are. The Jovian Republic unfortunately is a trick option where politics are secondary to the fact that you have cancerous space Mexicans shitting down your chimney on a regular basis.

>>50175021
Probably Extropia.

>>50175021
Titan offers the most for least. Being politically active is a guarantee of high quality life.

That said, I'd pick anarchists because it offers the most freedom.

>>50173435
Huh, I guess I agree with the Rorties.

>>50175021
The best average quality of life is probably for a Titanian or Venusian.
The PC is too large to really define a population, but the average Martian isn't doing that well. The average person on Progress is doing really well, but isn't remotely average off of that station.

The average Venusian enjoys a boosted quality of life over most of the inner system, thanks to the advantages of being the closest to STP naturally, and attempts to make Venus an attractive place to live and work.

The average Titanian is similar, while a lot of the AA gets squeezed more by resource stuff and lacking a planet (which makes it a lot easier to travel and have a large living space).

The LLA is still recovering from the Fall, but getting better quickly.

A lot of this will be subjective though.

>>50175172

Rimward talks about Reagan Cylinders, and explores their origins some more.

>but surely in 10 AF they'd have tried doing something to fix that?

People with lots of money have fixed it for themselves. Regular folks don't. I mean, shit, there's terrible fucking neighborhoods and environmental problems in the US - why haven't we fixed those on a Federal level? Republica has better things to spend their dollars on.

>Is that not how people also live in O'Neil Cylinders?

Yeah, crack open Sunward, look at Remembrance, I believe the technical LLA capital. Two cylinders, one is grossly overpopulated by refugees and sounds similar to the Reagan Cylinders, the other has an overabundance of green space and showy, shining government buildings. So, they can have similar problems, depending on how they are used. Ultimates on Aspis for instance are said to be deliberately letting public infrastructure lasp to weed out weaklings from the locals.

>>50174843
There are nice Reagan cylinders, but that's expensive. The idea is that with distributed nanotech and good data systems people would be able to maintain these, but because it requires big highly organized groups to get work done the way they're allowed it's far from an ideal market so poor people end up with shitty living conditions (like real life, but worse because even if you can't pay any bills so your water and power get shut off then at least you have air)

>>50173215
The point is that all of them are worse than what we have today. That's because they're all caricatures of recent and current political movements as well as extreme examples of alternative forms of society.

>>50173242
That's not true at all. The only problem is you don't have an alternate option when it comes to living in a crowded city.

>>50174916
The devs are not engineers. They are not physicists. They are not chemists. They are not biologists.
Advanced nanotech is not needed for life support systems.

>>50176988
What if I want to live in extreme alternative forms of society?

>>50177027
Feel free to have your life dictated by the whims of SJWs. All you have to do is marry one.

>>50177053
Already in the works. That said, the faction I'd most like to live under are the Ultimates.

Though I wouldn't mind being an exhuman working for Titanian Fleet Intelligence.

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>>50177077
>Already in the works.
>mfw

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>>50142659

What the fuck did you mean with Ludism? How dying myself can sabotage the opressive relationship between me and the health insurance company?

In what school did you learn this shit?

>>50177668
What the fuck does Luddism have to do with insurance companies?

>>50177668
>insurance company
Nothing about Luddism could imply that I meant to say something about insurance companies.

>>50177668
>Verblatin
>Verbatim
I see what you did there.

Okay, so instead of continuing the endless shitposting about JOVIAN STRONK and JUNTA WEAK BABBIES, I genuinely want to know:

How could the Jovians improve the life support systems of the Reagan cylinders without using potential, as they'd put it, "TITAN vectors" (nanotech, heavy automation) or biosystems (i.e. MeatHab)? Let's assume that they have access to a core of some pretty savvy atmospheric technicians and biologists and have funding and government support (for now) to try to upgrade the life support systems of a good chunk of the cylinders from "bad" to "adequate", at the very least.

Seriously I know one of you hacks religiously reads Atomic Rockets, lecture me.

>>50177668
>>50177724
>>50177740
>>50177981
Can we all just agree that the cancer is the worst written part of the Jovian Republic/Junta?

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>>50177724
>>50177740

>>There's no reason to die of cancer except ludism.

And i ask you, the first anon who wrote this, what the fack do you think is Ludism?

Because in this booru the theme is filled with people talking about denying technology as synonim of ludism. Sounds like the shit spelled from the mouths of the information technology foundation.

Also, you have a point and its better if explain myself: die from cancer when you have the way to cure its anything but ludism.

>>50178021
They could hire skilled workers to perform maintenance, repair, and modernization tasks.

It's an economic problem. It's more expensive to do it the way the Jovians are insisting on doing it, and that means that poor people get boned.

>>50178045
Being categorized as a non-person with no legal protections as punishment for thought crime seems pretty bad.

>>50178021
The Jovian's should be fine with biosystems though, they're cautious against nanotech cause they can be hacked by TITANs but they have no reason to hate biosystems, it's not like they're even modifying the sacred human body.

>>50178063
Okay, that's also pretty stupid. I'm pretty sure that the American half of the Jovian Republic would not be okay with just taking away free speech or due process like that.

>>50178082
What makes you think biosystems can't be hacked?

>>50178082
Biosystems is using things like orfices and gross shit that looks like the inside of a creature that would be extremely revolting to the average Jovian, religious or otherwise.

Fuck, biosystems aren't used in the vast majority of the solar system since even your average transhuman feels weirded out by it at best. While I'm sure there's one or two others, MeatHab is the only habitat mentioned that uses actual biosystems in any widespread capacity.

>>50178221
Would it really be that hard to hide the biosystem behind an attractive facade?

>>50178095
>Civilians are generally anyone under the age of fifteen, anyone who has been convicted of a criminal act, new naturalized arrivals to the Republic, or any adult who has not completed their voluntary military service. While a civilian enjoys some rights, they do not have absolute freedom of speech and may be detained or confined to their quarters by the authorities, no justification needed. Civilians are banned from working or even accessing sensitive areas on habitats. Adult civilians are relegated to a second-class status within the Republic and are generally considered to be criminals, cowards, or both. An adult who is not a citizen has failed the Republic in some manner and this status is not only reflected in their mesh and other digital interactions but also in housing. The rental or purchase of housing in certain zones is a privilege extended only to citizens, meaning that most civilians are relegated to ghettos where they are more easily controlled and monitored.
Below civilians are a class of “non-persons.” This includes uplifts, infomorphs, repeat criminal offenders, and untrusted inhabitants of our protectorate habitats that are not collaborating with the regime. With the exception of the last category, most non-persons do not tend to remain in the Republic if they can afford it. These non-persons cannot claim even the most basic rights, and while it is still considered a crime to kill one, it is treated as felony property damage and not murder or manslaughter.

>>50178095
>It may surprise those that have never been to the Republic to discover that we have absolute freedom of speech. While there are rather strict sedition laws, merely criticizing the government will not get you hauled off to prison. The media, activists, and even the Church are often quite vocal in their criticisms of the senate and the governors. This freedom of speech is limited due to restrictions against the press and public gatherings, of course, so while individual dissent is very much alive and well, it seldom makes the jump to organized opposition. On the rare cases where it does, it is usually quickly quelled by the CDC.

>>50178332
>regime
He's not even pretending to be loyal.

>>50178379
I don't think that word means what you think it means.

>>50178396
It has extremely negative connotations.

>>50178407
Wikipedia says:
>While the word régime originates as a synonym for any form of government, modern usage often gives the term a negative connotation, implying an authoritarian government or dictatorship.

The Junta is very authoritarian, so seems about right.

>>50178450
The narrator is supposedly a Jovian.

>>50178456
So he shouldn't recognize his own system of governance?

>>50178050
Words evolve. Luddite means anyone who rejects modern technology for whatever reason.

>>50178246
Probably. Maybe? I dunno, I ain't ever seen one of those irl.

>>50178332
>>50178353
I understand not treating uplifts and infomorphs as civilians but I can't see anyone, even the most staunch bioconservatives, doing that to criminals or "untrusted inhabitants".

>>50178813
Really? Because people do things like that all the time. Try going to Saudi Arabia and saying you're an atheist. In a more exact comparison, outlaws were pretty much exactly that in Norse society.

>>50178813
Considering that citizenship is not even revoked for petty crimes (unless you pull them constantly) you need to do something really outrageous to fall from civilian status to non-person. Acts or attempts at terrorism against Republic probably can get you there pretty fast.

>>50178962
I'm pretty sure that's the kind of thing that gets you executed.

>>50178969
well i guess it could be hard to be a citizen if you happen to be dead.

Why are so many of the political groups of the Inner System depicted as evil? What are some good things about these systems?

>>50179801
They're functional. There are bad parts. The books tend to talk about the bad parts, because otherwise it's boring.

That's why the Outer System is boring, btw.

>>50178853
Yeah, but, not to be /pol/ here, they're muslims, and the writers seem to be implying that the Jovians are cold war era conservatives, who certainly wouldn't go that far.

>>50178095
>Jovians
>American
Yeah, maybe in the sense that they're from the W. Hemisphere.

White people went extinct in the continental US of EP.

>>50178021
It's not really a technology problem, its a scale problem. The LLA had a very similar with overcrowded septic habs. The big common point here is that both took in lots of physically instanced refugees, straining habs past their capabilities. The LLA is starting to get their septic habs under control, but they still struggle with it as well.

The answer is simple, build more cavern cities and habs, spread the population out more. Out by Jupiter this is harder, there's less local infrastructure, and more radiation, so the Jovian's are lagging behind the LLA, in part because they aren't will to do some of the really extreme stuff the LLA did in the fall like forced resleeving into synths or infomorphs.

So its simple: build more habs. From Panopticon there isn't actually a lot of nanotech required. Oxygen recovery and similar is best done with nanotech (which does not mean nanomachine), inert nanoscale structures in a controlled environment should have gotten past CBEAT a long time ago.

The hold up: More biomorphs than the moon, and a population which only expands in terms of breathers, no synths or infomorphs not using up air. They have more work to do, and probably are. Very few infrastructure programs are given much detail.

Active nanotech swarms in the open should be rare in any population which doesn't have medichines for everyone. Breathing nanomachines, even if they aren't trying to do anything to you, is going to be similar to breathing asbestos or quartz dust. (Nanomachine Silicosis is fairly scary) It's a public health hazard you don't really need to have.

>>50180345
Well they do go that far, so that must not be what the book is implying.

>>50179801
Because the devs think that capitalism and statism are evil.

>>50180540
I think you're significantly underestimating the size of nanites there, frind. They're closer in size to bacteria.

>>50182182
Yeah, that's clearly why Morningstar is a nice place to live, the Extropians practice slavery, and Titan is the most powerful piece of the AA.

>>50182217
Morningstar is Champagne Liberal. Because they're Liberal, it's a better place to live than PC, but they still practice slavery. The Extropians are capitalists, so they're evil and practice slavery. Titan is good because they are Socialist, but it's just damn obvious that a state is going to have the most powerful military in an organization mostly made up of AnCom collectives.

>>50182369
You realize Titan still has capitalism, right?

>>50180407
[citation needed]

I think my next character is going to be a nordaboo from a brinker hab with minimal contact with the rest of the system, who's managed to emigrate to Titan only to be utterly crushed at the fact that they're more like modern scandinavia than the GLORIOUS NORDIC VIKING AGE.

>>50182433
>Titan still has capitalism
[citation needed]

>>50180540
CO2 breaking can be done without nanomachines. You just need energy. Which Jovians have in theory. They just need to add additional fusion reactors everywhere (plus all the infrastructure for their support). But trying to transform existing habitats for ~40 million people to new standard in 10 years is not that easy. Especially considering that most of their resources are spent on security, weapons and similar things.

>>50183155
>jovedrone is triggered
Can't handle the RICH DIVERSITY of the Jovian Republic, friend?

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>>50184136
>anon asks for citation from EP books about thing
>t-triggered jovefag?

sums up /epg/ pretty well tbqhfamalamashamalan

>>50183810

Thinking on this, pondering what morph to put them in. My immediate first thoguht is 'sylph with combat mods', because an entire brinker hab of NORDIC VIKING FANBOYS is gonna look pretty as hell.

>>50183810
You emigrate from, you immigrate to.

>>50184770
English is not my first language, sorry; noted for the future.

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Had players flake on me, open spots in a text game, but it starts tonight so you'll need to make a character in time. Reply to this post and I'll give you a Discord invitation.

>>50185132

Give us a pitch, anon; what's the game about?

>>50185143
It's based in Extropia, the opening premise is that your characters have been stranded there at least temporarily by unfortunate circumstances, and will initially come together to get out from under those circumstances. The larger ideas of the game focus on criminality, conspiracy, and the web of relationships that lie behind them.

>>50183832
The Titanian kroner.

>>50185211

Call it a maybe; before I confirm, though, are you using any sort of morph pool rules or similar?

>>50136900
But then you have the weakness of a single perspective.

Other people have genuinely distinct ways of thinking that are superior than your own in certain contexts, no matter who you are.

Even if >>50140285 's idea of an actual basilisk hack isn't feasible, working to exploit a subject's biases can be done more easily when there are a fair number of copies of that person running around to experiment on.

>>50145727
You could also just adapt the Transhuman space books to the post-Fall setting and home brew the odd tech differences.

>>50186095
Well there is a problem of nanomachines. In GURPS clearing a swarm is easy if you are prepared. Many weapons with an area effect attack would murder nanomachines. And it is baked into basic system (nanomachine swarms count as diffuse targets and as such don't care about normal attacks but area effect anything will fry them).

There is some other similar points, though I can't remember them without looking up. This one is one of the most outrageous examples.

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Finally found my answer if the robotic mobility system "thrust vector" is working in vacuum or not. It is, it's just that the info isn't found in the text for the thrust vectors, but in the the info blurb for the freaking kite flyer morph.

>In vacuum, it can drive itself with thrust-vector nozzles.

>>50185691
I don't even know what you mean by that.

Time sensitive Discord link here:

https://discord.gg/5KnP6

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anyone got pics that work as consortium products?

>>50187611
PC products are unlikely to be plastered with advertising. Setting aside the fact that they're fabbed and that AR will place the ads, they're also supposed to be hypercompetitive with each other.

>>50186465
How is that a problem?

>>50187681
>the mesh as presented
>AR ads that you don't subscribe for
pick one

>>50136844
starting new eclipse phase campaign on Roll20:

https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/61588/eclipse-phase-rpg

>>50188956
What's the game going to be about?

>>50189050
>you play as firewall agents.
>you stop x-threats.

>>50188924
Thought I made it pretty clear that it would be the latter.

>>50189146
Then explain how the mesh works in your homeruled version of the setting

>>50189084
>you play as firewall agents
Sorry. I don't play cucks.

>>50189158
Muse defends you against AR ads with infosec.

>>50189164
fine. you're free to fuck off.

>>50188956
I posted in your thread, hombre.

>>50189164
are there any posters left who haven't decided to cradle this guys balls?

>>50189282
who's balls?

>>50189164 's balls or >>50188956 's balls?

>>50189275
>https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/61588/eclipse-phase-rpg
cool. i hit you back.

>>50189295
You know damn well whose balls.

and so does your mother

>>50189307
The Cock's balls.

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>>50189323

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Cthulutron is here to bust a funky beat

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>>50189566

If I wanted to run a very cyberpunk sort of campaign, would you agree that would work best on Mars? Martian culture has this strange blend between Cyberpunk and Wild West that I like.

>>50190111
ladies and gentleman,
CYBORG CONWAY TWITTY

>>50190111
is there such a thing as a "punk" western?

>>50190368
Deadlands might count. Also, TVTropes has a page dedicated to 'cattlepunk', but that doesn't really mean anything.

>>50187763
It changes how players and characters view nanomachines in game world. In EP with its "nanomachines rule because they are" if you see a swarm you better run or have your own better swarm. You can kill it with weapons but in many cases it will be incredibly risky.

In GURPS a bunch of joves in PA with can feel themselves nice and comfy treating most nanomachine related hazards as just another Tuesday.

>>50190876
GURPS is specifically designed designed so that you can change individual rules like that with minimal additional headache.

>>50190876
Fucking jovefag, please kys

>>50190876
Right
And how is that a problem?

>>50192158
Because it doesn't reflect the setting.

>>50188956
>I've got the singularity character generator group license

Did you check the /epg/ pasta? There's a mediafire up of Singularity, no need to give Posthuman your money for a product that will never be finished.

>>50192391
So apply rule zero

So what exactly is the Factors' endgame?

>>50193938

Well, in my game, it was to keep transhumanity safe long enough for them to develope into a properly multi-system, united power; then to introduce them to galatic society at large and and recruit them into the ongoing forever war against the Extragalatic Intelligence.

>>50193938
Unknown. Up to the GM whether they even have one.

>>50193938
I like the idea of the Factors being a hider species like the worms of the Revelation Space setting by Alistair Reynolds. In this incarnation they would be genuinely interested in getting useful ideas and technologies from humanity before disappearing. Their pressure not to use the gates would serve to hide their interaction with humanity from the big threat for as long as possible. This would explain their extreme security measures. They also might be assessing whether transhumanity should be snuffed out to avoid causing more problems for them.

Also, can I just say that one of my favorite things about this setting is not being able to defeat the big threats? So many games get to power trippy.

>>50194297
>Also, can I just say that one of my favorite things about this setting is not being able to defeat the big threats? So many games get to power trippy.

Eh, I don't feel like that's built in to eclipse phase; defeating the 'big threats' is just a never-ending process in it. It's not, IMO, impossible to defeat, say, the TITANs if they showed back up; it would be fucking hard and near impossible, but not truly impossible. The problem comes, then, that as Transhumanity gets more advanced, more and more x-threats become apparently; solve one and two more pop up, sorta deal.

Ok, so I got some questions about government. Specifically the PC ans Tharsis League.

Starting with the PC. What is the nature of the Congress and Ministry? They both make laws, but who makes what laws? Further more, Sunword says the laws made by the Congress can be ignored, but not the Ministry. Why? Can the Ministry veto the Congresses decisions?

And what about the Tharsis League? What power do they have? Can they be vetoed by the PC? And what exactly is the anatomy of the League? Are the IWA, TTO, Martian Rangers/Magistrates and MDOT all like different ministries? How are their members appointed?

>>50194336
>It's not, IMO, impossible to defeat, say, the TITANs if they showed back up
Is this a hypothetical scenario where the TITANs show up unprepared and haven't established extrasolar matrioshka brains or turned whole asteroid belts into manufacturing facilities churning out self-replicating weapons of war capable of RKV bombardment, nanoplague production, and adaptive reconfiguration?

>>50195904

No, it's a hypothetical scenario where 'the players getting a chance to have fun' is paramount to the gameplay experience, and going 'TITANS show up, you lose now' is not fun for the players; I don't care what 'contrivances' I have to come up with for it, even if it's deus ex machina techgifts via a sybil or a promethean; if I run a game of eclipse phase and the TITANs show up, I'm going to give my players a fighting chance to defeat them; it won't be easy, it won't be free, but if they somehow pull it off it will make victory something to savor.

The only impossibility in the world is true impossibility; with enough luck and elbow grease, anything can happen.

>>50196025
No, it's either:
a) A case of a GM being unable to come up with a story more interesting than handing unlimited amounts of power to players to fight a gimped villain that really shouldn't be interacted with in this fashion or
b) A GM giving in to whiny players who insist on being able to kill TITANs.

>>50196186

I disagree with both points; players should come to a game expecting to have fun, and being told 'no, you don't get to win', that isn't fun. Going 'you're probably not going to win' and deciding fuck it, you can at least try, and giving it your all? That's fun, even if you fail.

And note, I never said that it would be easy, just that it would be POSSIBLE.

>>50196257
Being unable to defeat a TITAN invasion isn't being unable to win. It's being able to lose if you make really stupid decisions.

>>50196257
Your victory conditions are insufficiently imaginative.

>>50196257

>being told 'no, you don't get to win', that isn't fun.

I see somebody doesn't play a lot of Call of Cthulhu.

Potential TITAN weapon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Nicoll#Nicoll-Dyson_Laser

>>50191060
Yes but in this case it is one of basic rules that determines how some types of targets are treated. Changing it directly is not a wise choice. Unless you want cyber ladybug swarms as part of your setting that like Terminator go through fire and bullets to descend upon the unwary and consume them alive.

Basically you need instead to add some additional defences to nanomachines so that changes won't be so drastic for the whole system. I think there was some other similar things that can trip you up. That's why I mentioned earlier that you need DM and players knowing it well before trying to change system.

The fact that GURPS technically gives similar style of play as EP system (gritty and sometimes lethal) can make spotting such problems a little difficult.

>>50196635
You could change it just for nanomachines (though I would advise doing this only for mechanical damage and pressure waves, as weapons that deliver large amounts of heat to an area really will fuck up nanomachines.

>>50196257
Why is defeating the TITANs even necessary? They're gone and only left behind dregs. It just seems like a generic battle manga if the TITANs return. After that, the ETI will be next, with a filler arc of the Factors somewhere in there.

>>50196635
Now that I think about it more, the scaling issues with that rule are present at many levels. Weapons which produce shrapnel could easily be handled that way for human-scale targets but might realistically not do much to the lady bug swarm. Area spray effects from high caliber automatic weapons could be significantly more effective against spacecraft than against a group of humans, depending on armor penetration.

>>50196753
An return of the TITANs was postulated for the purpose of the discussion. I might be interested in in having a TITAN invasion that leads to the game being continued from one of the caches created by the preservationist faction in Firewall or maybe something that involves evacuating large numbers of people through the gates (assuming that the TITANs only want the system and don't care to follow).

>>50196753
> -The point of the game is to build a castle and watch how your enemies die.
> -Great! it seems people get even sicker in the head with each year. Why there is no game where you save the Earth and everyone on it and then watch how planet heals, grows, and transforms into a beautiful garden?
> -First you need to kill all enemies.

>>50196786
>the TITANs realize they forgot their mountain sized corpse back on earth
>rush the system to retrieve it

>>50196831
The difficulty isn't in coming up with a reason for the TITANs to return, it's in making an interesting plot happen from that point that isn't stupid.

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>>50196815

>>50196786
Shrapnel is not treated as AOE attacks in GURPS. Instead it's treated as multiple attacks originating from the point of explosion. So swarms don't care about it much. Explosion's blast on the other hand is much more dangerous to them.

>>50196898
Okay. The point stands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremermann%27s_limit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bekenstein_bound

Hard limits on computation

>>50197672
But anon, the TITANs are invincible god-machines. Nothing is beyond their grasp.

>>50198077
They can be way better than you without violating those limits

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>>50195426

I'd like to know this too...

But let's argue about Jovians, autonomists, and TITANs instead.