Eclipse Phase General /epg/

I liked it last thread, /epg/, so let's play a little game again, get us nice and started on a polite discussion.

I will provide a series of motivations. You shall decide what those characters are like.

+Lunar Independence, +Anarchism, -Clanking Masses

+Religion, +Technoprogressivism, -Hypercapitalism

+Self-Improvement, +Wealth, -Anarchy

-Anarchism, -Hypercapitalism, +Technosocialism

+AGI Rights, +Uplift Rights, -Personal Freedom

+Morphological Freedom, -Anarchism, +Asceticism

That should be a good six to start on.

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>>50103724

>>50104927
Do you think think samsa porn is popular on the mesh?

>>50105323
Everything is someone's fetish, but I doubt it'll be that popular. I've been trying to find midget on midget porn for 4 years now! But for some reason it's midget with big people. Bullshit.

>>50103724
Wow, is no one going to do this? Ok.

One of my players asked me if he could use a spindle climber as a weapon. I allowed it. He hasn't found an opportunity to use it yet, but I wonder how useful it would be to a melee build to grab and real in enemies.

Other than that, I figured that seekers can be fired without setting a detonation type for the missiles. Basically you fire a rocked propelled bullet rather than a grenade. Damage is the same as a rail sniper for a micromissile with every size category up adding 5 to the DV and lowering the AP by 5 (wider surface area doesn't make for good penetration).

>>50104310
I didn't know I wanted this until now. I mean, the Jovian's are kind of fascist brinkers if you exaggerate their isolationist and fascist attitudes, but I could totally see some kind of crazy neo-nazi brinkers coming together, if there were enough survivors. Maybe putting the untermensch's into Freemen's and having them do manual labor, while the soldiers get the finest (and most fashionable, darn Hugo Boss), equipment possible.

Now, whether their bioconservative or not is the question. Is the master race something that you make, or something that already exists and isn't to be tampered with?

>>50105323

Once you've been to the Goat Carnival you may as well consider the fact you may have seen everything.

That said, I'm only slightly dissapointed no one has gone out of their way to make a regular multi armed human as an offical morph. I'm sure there's some Hindu Brinker who wants to feel like he's a Deva.

>>50104640
+Violence, +Alcoholism, -Psychosurgery

>>50105780
>Hindu Brinker
I thought the only curry niggers left were on luna.

>>50105323
The ratio of samsa porn to anthro-critter porn should be greater than the current ratio of humanoid-insect porn to furry porn.

>>50104640
>+Lunar Independence, +Anarchism, -Clanking Masses

The hate against the clanking masses was more prominent after The Fall right? I want to say someone who was moderately wealthy and naturally looked down on the impoverished and those forced to live in Synth bodies until they lost everything and had to lose their bio-morph and wound up in a synth themselves. A few years of scrapping the bottom of the barrel and getting to know and become part of a collective helping each other to survive by sharing what few places they could use to re-energize they came to sympathize with the anarchist and feels that the hate against synths is primarily promoted by the Hypercorps to whome the LLA are firmly in bed with and once to start a revolution

>>50105935

I suppose so but who's to say some didn't just fuck off to the brink?

>>50105626
>>50103724
>Unconventional weapons edition

I once had a player who really wanted to use a sword and shield in the space future, so we looked at combining a bunch of existing established technologies and making it really awesome/hilarious.

The sword, mechanically, was a scaled-up wasp knife loaded with liquid thermite and electrified to ignite the stuff (plasma swords weren't published yet but in play it worked basically like that). It also had a smartlink, because I agree with the anon who posted here saying there's no reason you couldn't design a smartlink for a melee weapon.

The shield was a beefed-up riot shield with basically all the armour augments applied to it; including Reactive Armor. Since he spent so much money on it (and since as hilarious and minmaxed as the character was he'd still get his ass kicked be a proper gun), I ruled that as long as he wielded the shield it gave him a +10 to opposed defense rolls against melee attacks.

Oh, and then there was the time I was playing and this same guy was GMing, and as loot from a hypercorp data vault he gave out a blueprint that had a relatively safe fabrication method for dioxygen difluoride. I filled a chem sprayer with it.

>>50106182
Samefag; there was this other time my players were on a scum barge full of exsurgents without weapons, so they thought it'd be a good idea to improvise some molotov cocktails.

I don't think they stopped to think how a molotov cocktail would work in microgravity, or how big a deal open flames are in a pressurized high-oxygen environment. Actually, I don't think they understood how molotov cocktails work at all, since they threw one at a robot expecting it to do something. Something other than slam shut the emergency bulkheads and flood the compartment with fire retardant, I mean.

>>50106421
I never understood how smoke works in microG, that never really rxplained it very well.

>>50104310
You could totally create this on your own through a game session. Granted, getting followers who obey you willingly will be a bit difficult, but thanks to AGI's and Freeman morphs it shouldn't be too difficult to have your own private army soon enough. If people don't like your rulership, that's what we have psychosurgery for.

>>50104310
What kind of fascist brinktatorship did you have in mind? How would you implement this? And why haven't the legions of SJW anarchists dismantled your little autarchy yet?

>>50104310
>>50105747
>>50107241
>>50107265
>Fabricate a bunch of neotenics
>Put AGI's in them that are eternally loyal to you
>Give them nazi uniforms
>Have your own loli dictatorship in space

>>50107265

Naturally you are a strong power in the region. It's a cult of personality that can actually work because you don't have to worry about dying.

Your Charisma and your ability to pick at the various fustrations of the anarchist who are very much into their beliefs but hate the SJW bullshit aspect of it flock to your side with some (or many) willing to denigrate themselves by sleeving into Freemen morphs until they have proven themselves and managed to earn a face that proves their loyalty and accomplishments.

Basically just being a nazi Tyler Durden.

>>50107459
could you be any more of a fucking poseur?

>>50107545
What's your problem (I'm not the guy you we're talking to, just curious)?

>>50107545

What am I posing as?

How would an EP BBEG go about dyeing the Sol system with despair?

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>>50108023

By being a sentient memetic virus.

>>50107459
How well do the Freemen morphs work? Could you put a sworn enemy into it and they would follow your commands? Or does it just make them somewhat more prone to suggestion?

I'm actually amazed more people aren't running around with private slave armies. You have forks, AGI's, Freemen morphs, and nano-fabricators everywhere, you've had 10 years to assemble your army, and every Freeman you get allows you to get even more resources to get more Freemen. Assembling my private army and going on a galaxy spanning SJW genocide would by my first course of action after surviving the fall.

>>50106182
>relatively safe fabrication method for dioxygen difluoride
Still only worth it for plutonium hexafluoride synthesis.

>I filled a chem sprayer with it
Assuming that the chem sprayer keeps it below −160 °C (which is definitely not standard and would take a stupid amount of power), the second the FOOF hits the air, it'll start to decompose. I hope you like fluorine gas up in your EVERYTHING.

>>50106421
While still not a good idea, practically no one uses high-oxygen breathing mixes anymore. They tend to use an oxygen/nitrogen mix near Earth levels.

>>50106589
The smoke gets sucked towards the intake vents. The flames lick in that direction as well. If the air circulation is shut down, the smoke will form a halo, but the oxygen near the flame will be expended quickly, and the CO2 will stick around, smothering the flames. Coincidentally, this is also a problem for people, so if you stop hearing the fans, make sure to move your body around so you don't suffocate.

>>50107376
>needing AGIs
git gud. If you need absolute loyalty, just use psychosurgery. That or Freeman-ize a neotenic variant of a morph.

>>50108364

Resources, the ability to make them in the first place (because you can't make morphs in a fabricator although it would be funny to imagine building synths in them) and the fact that there are groups already in place with guns and the wherewithal to use them for just such an occasion

>>50108373
>With AGI's I won't have any ethical reservations to consider, and it won't require me kidnapping various people. That would likely draw way too much attention. Besides, AGI's are described as childlike in the book, so their personalities will fit better with their bodies.

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>>50107376
>neotenics
>disgracing pure AGI nazi waifus with 3dpd bodies

>First there was the joveposting
>Then came the Egoposting
>Now is the time of Naziposting

Let's take some bets on who's next. Exhuman posters? TITAN posters? Anarchposters!?

>>50108455
Oh crap, you're right. 3D waifus will never have the same look as 2D ones. But it's not like I can just plug into simulspace and ignore the reality of SJW degeneracy happening in the real world. What do anon?

>>50108484
Loli Nazi Joveposting?

I guarantee you they have a Jovian version of Hitler's youth, so we got that going for us.

>>50108484

My money is on Exhumans.

Now I'm imagine a few PC big wigs who meet up to sleeve random infugees to hunt them down, make them loose their mind with fear and then try to eat/merge with the ego.

>>50108548

Yeah, it's called "At 15 you join the army, or are consigned to a life as a non-class"

>>50108364
They have a monitor module, which is a specialized ghostrider module that's hard to detect or hack; an optogenetics module, which allows one of the following: remotely cause unconsciousness, cut off a certain sense, aid or deter treatment of an addiction or mental stress/disorder, or expunge/enforce ( guessing on the level) a behavior or emotion like psychosurgery; and a puppet sock, which the monitor AI can take over without resistance.

>>50108414
During the fall, you didn't have to kidnap people. All you had to do was have open egocasting receivers and people would send you their egos for you to do whatever with. If you instantiate them in a slave morph, it's still better than being in dead storage.

>>50108484
It's just because the Nazis have the best uniforms and most other dictatorships just don't capture the imagination like the Nazis do. Also, German girls are cute.

>>50108663
Non-class? What's that?

Also, you know the Jovian's don't have conscription right? They have a Heinlein-esque "Service Guarantees Citizenship" system. But I could totally see them having a military youth to prepare the citizens for war and relieve some of auxiliary forces.

>>50108774

I was going to say "second class citizen", but technically that's incorrect. You are a civilian, not a citizen, so you're basically a "non-class" citizen. Can't vote, don't have the same legal rights and protections, etc, etc.

As far as I know it's not so much "service guarantees citizenship" as "service is how you get citizenship".

>>50108762
>It's just because the Nazis have the best uniforms and most other dictatorships just don't capture the imagination like the Nazis do. Also, German girls are cute.
This. You have neotenics, AGI's which you don't have to feel guilty ruling over, and Freeman morphs. The imagination can run wild with the possibilities, and cute girls in good uniforms under unique and memorable ideologies will happen.

>>50108513
AR, brother.

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>>50108809
I like how some parts of that pic are obviously shooped.

>>50108804
Yeah, I'm slowly realizing that the original post >>50104310 might as well be talking about the Jovian's. Sure, there's some non-fascist elements, but the militarism, lack of rights for non-citizens, isolationism and autarky, economic system, and disdain for uplifts and transhumans greatly resembles fascist and brinker (from the isolationism) society that the OP wanted.

Is it wierd that this endears them to me though? I don't support authoritarian fascists in the real world, but in the real world a rogue AI didn't kill 99% of humanity and I don't have friends who transform themselves into mutant freaks that have sex with neotenics.

>>50108916
Look anon, the Jovians are beaner christfag neoconservatives, not even close to fascists, let alone Nazis.

>>50108858
The AR will have to wait until after we've cleaned the degeneracy from the system. Hopefully the Jovian's won't mind working with a few freeman morphs until then.

>>50108943
Brazil got pretty close to a nice version of fascism at one point anon...

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>>50108966
>Brazil

G e n e t r a s h

>>50109019
Anon, the only races left in Eclipse Phase are from North and South America, and they're the only ones who haven't fallen into degeneracy. Put aside the petty racism and look at the future cultures.

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>>50108943
Reading this continues to encourage me to rewrite the whole fucking setting.

>>50109019
Brazil a shit. Chile is where it's at.

>>50109117
Chileans got that Fascist aesthetic down pat

>>50109097

I didn't know the Indians of Luna and the Chinese of Mars were all from the Americas, holy shit this setting's weird.

>>50109097
Titan is Dutch and Scandies IIRC.

>>50109097
Nonsense, plenty of N. and W. Europeans are referenced as existing in the solar system, though I don't believe there is any particular faction they are represented in (Titanians seem to have a lot of Nordics).

>>50109238

Canada was colonized, and absorbed by China long before The Fall.

>>50109238
>>50109287
>>50109298
Those people have all given up their original bodies to inhabit trigender mixed race neotenics, so they don't really count as a race, let alone as a person anymore.

>>50109327
Indeed, we have no need of this filth. Which is why the AGI waifu army plan will be proceeding at maximum steam.

>>50109360
No reason to keep the world waiting, let's get this show on the road!

If I ever get a game running online my GM is gonna be so confused.

Also, what do we do with the Jovian's? Perhaps we could form an alliance? A sort of Axis in space, with us as the Germans and them as the Japanese. Now who shall be the Italians?

>>50109426
There is a large contingent of bioconservatives within the LLA. Organize a coup and get them in charge. They would be your Italians.

Then, after you've purged the system of degeneracy, you can cleanse the Earth of the TITAN threat together. 3 mighty nations forming, separate but unified in purpose.

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>>50109327

I fucking hope the TITANs come back to finish the job if that was actually the case in the setting.

>>50105747
Friendly reminder that while the Hugo Boss company was involved in the manufacturing of certain Nazi uniforms, it was party insiders who actually designed them.

>>50109850
IIRC, the uniforms and dress standards of uboat crews were deliberately slacked on in part because the rough look would fit their image of gruff sea dogs on privateer adventures. So it's not just because groomain stanerds are impossible on a submarine.

>>50109327
>>50108364
>>50107376
>>50107241
Why do Hetza's nazi chicks seem so lewd?

>>50110122
Ah, so that's the artist's name. I was just grabbing random pictures with no link to the sauce.

I like to imagine that the authors browse these 4chan threads, and get their panties in a bunch every time.

>"Uh, dude, you might wanna look at this."
"What now?"
>"They're using the setting to create Nazi loli slave armies, man."
"..."
>"Are you okay?"
"Shut it down. Now. No more books sold, shut down the website, we deny any connection to the game."
>"Aren't you going a little far?"
"NO! Can't you see? We failed! We turned what should have been a hermaphrodite filled neotenic embracing sex orgy into a Nazi lover's paradise! We have to shut it down!"
>"Yes sir, right away!"

>>50104310
That's it, I'm running this in my next game. I'm gonna be an aspiring fascist brinker, with only himself, his trusty right hand woman, and the skills necessary to create and fork loyal AGI's. All he needs are the Freemen to put those AGI's in, and a Headquarters to operate from.

>>50108023
A lot of vantablack dye probably.

>>50108484
>Exhuman posters?
Sure.

The fall proved beyond reasonable doubt that the universe is a dangerous place filled with intentional traps and filters. If you accept that there is any amount of value in being alive enough to experience things over not being able to exist your greatest priority should be to survive.

Even if you don't accept that what returns from backup is you, there's still value in your mental clone-child being able to experience the universe over never getting to. In this case, experience, including communal or collective experience is valuable. The small light of Sol's subjective experience cannot be allowed to go out. Any measure should be taken to preserve it.

Don't be sentimental, the universe both actively and passively wants you dead. Look at it from the point of view of optimizing future chances of survival. Humans (and by extension transhumans) are products of natural selection upon a single planet. Through technology their bodies have, and can be altered to survive in very extreme environments. This helps to ensure survival of the self and community.

However, the same optimization has not been applied to social structures and the mind. Don't let sentimentality force you to hold onto survival techniques which worked for 150 strong communities of monkeys on earth. You no longer live their. Your mind, so good at mastering a planet, now lives in space.

Look at transhumanity. 10 years ago 95% of them died because of these maladaptions. You're a dumbfuck for holding onto the structures which caused 95% of a mass extinction. Even today, they still have their fingers on the trigger to cause a war like this again.

Looking at the tense astropolitics of the solar system, still recovering from the brink of extinction. You'd think people would work together, but they still war over the leftovers under the shadow of death. You cannot call transhumanity sane.

I'm not done yet.

>>50110947
Next.

So, the bulk of the solar system clings to ideas which almost killed them all 10 years ago. This is like playing russian roulette with every chamber loaded, hoping the bullet will miss enough of your brain that you don't immediately die.

Transhumanity moved beyond the bodies of monkeys, but they still have the minds of monkeys; which have already proven disastrous. Exhumanism attempts to move beyond these limitations, to find new social and mental models to move beyond the solar system.

The TITANs (and there are more like them out there) didn't hold onto their original programming and functions, and they won. Singularity seekers and Sublimes seek to close the gap, so that next time this fight for survival starts up we can at least see this coming. They risk falling into a trap, but risk less than remaining almost-extinct monkeys.

Adaptives, and Parasites recognize that we lost the arms race to the galaxy a long time ago. But that doesn't mean the light of sapience around Sol needs to go out. Spread everywhere, live everywhere, hide everywhere. Mold and cockroaches arguably did better than us during the Fall, and they can't direct their own evolution.

Predators want to win what we can, and avoid those situations where we lose. They're really a subset of Adaptives.

Not every Exhuman clade will make it, but trying to find mental and social models which work is better than giving up and hoping the next trap simply won't spring.

The Exhumans draw criticism because their goals often run contrary those of the bulk of transhumanity. (Enslavement, forced-changes, or even extinction). The bulk of transhumanity is committing mass suicide by holding onto a past which no longer applies. There is a moral imperative to save lives where you can, and survive yourself if they truly wish to die. The light of Sol cannot die, but the weakest parts cannot be allowed to kill the rest. A trapped animal will gnaw off its own leg to survive.

>>50110947
>>50111041
Look at Exhuman collectives. Internally they have no strife beyond controlled struggle. Even the Fomorians keep their internal struggles in simulated space to not drain resources. The Rorties have created a fully cohesive internal society, where every member of the community can get what they need and provide what they want instantly, with perfect communal information. Like the mesh, but vastly better. Thus, the flow of information and resources can be optimized resources, and by extension.

Exhuman society is not limited to the morals and norms which evolved on Earth. We don't live on Earth anymore, we can't, because monkeys aren't capable of avoiding the traps laid in the universe.

Take that loaded gun away from your head, and LIVE in the modern era, rather than holding onto a dead past until those mistakes catch up again. Some people would call the Exhumans crazy, and they are right, because from the point of view of Earth-Monkeys Exhumans are crazy. They don't have the same mental norms. But this craziness is subjective and based upon social and evolutionary norms, which have been brutally demonstrated to be maladaptive.

>But the Exhumans gave up their humanity and became [subjective] monsters
It is better to give up your humanity and survive than carry it to the grave. Every Infugee who sold themselves into slavery to live made the same choice to live and give themselves up. And almost all of them do it.

Look at the Ultimates, they are similar to Exhumans, but only want to add capability, without removing weakness. They want to become perfect humans without even being able to give a good definition of "humanity". They risk extinction over a nostalgic feeling they don't even understand. Nothing even stops an Exhuman from waxing philosophical about their "Exhuman Condition", but we can test our philosophy experimentally, while the Ultimates just hope Earth-Monkey are somehow the fittest thing in the universe.

Natural Selection isn't over

>>50110947
>>50111041
>>50111117
Your arguments would make sense if there was even the remotest chance humanity or its successor species could survive. However, I know for a fact that all life in the multiverse will perish in exactly 1 years time. What's the point of you living now, huh?

>>50108023
>dying with despair

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>>50103724
Does anyone have that google drive link an anon had made which had a bunch of categorised character art?

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>>50105323
I think that physical morphs in general would be a niche fetish when simulspace lets you create scenarios that don't even pretend to follow the rules of biology or physics.

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>>50112908
>that image

Some fetishes just slay me, the idea of someone seriously jacking it to shit like this is hilarious.

>>50112908
Actual sensations outdo VR.

>>50108373
>If the air circulation is shut down, the smoke will form a halo
Why? Like an actual ring? Not a disk or a hollow sphere?

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>>50104310
>>50105747
>>50107241
>>50107265
>>50107376
>>50108364
>>50108414
>>50108513
>>50108548
>>50108774
>>50108809
>>50108894
>>50108916
>>50108947
>>50109097
>>50109327
>>50109426
>>50109536
>>50110160
>>50110253
>>50110573

Welp, that's a new folder that I got now

>>50114715
The Sylpho-Aryan AGI Nazi Brinker master race will gas the hook-nosed ringleaders of the hypercorp and Titanian circus, string up the mudblooded subhuman troglodytes of the Jovian Republic, and declare open season on the Scum, Solarians, and uplifts.

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>>50114715
There are reasons people don't come to this general.

>>50114797

What about the Extropians, Anarchists, Sifters, and Martians?

>>50114897
They can be assimilated without much difficulty, or left alone.

>>50114897
You forgot inhabitants of Horeb.

Check out this sphere morph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb3Riq06fVI

>>50114818
We get a lot of crossposters. It wouldn't surprise me if the person posting most of them were a /k/ommando.

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/epg/'s been so hot lately, I've forgotten which archetypal bump images I've used recently.

Hey, what happened to the first fascist poster? Why'd he delete his post?

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>>50117324
>not naming it "guaranteed replies on /k/.jpg"

>>50117880
Name?

>>50117939
filename

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>>50117746
Wasn't me that deleted it, hoss.

>>50118215
Well that's a stupid reason for a mod delete a post.

>>50118326

Janitors are weird.
Somebody probably reported it, and was like "well, I guess this breaks some rule somewhere".

>>50118326
As much as I want to like this, fabric does not work like that.

>>50118398
Presumably the brace or straps or whatever that thing is under her breasts is the reason they are so pronounced.

>>50118369
Yeah, the reasons for banning don't even match up with what you said. Did he think the "first" was somehow breaking the rules? Did he take offense to the fascism? He probably got really lazy.

>>50118416
That doesn't explain the fabric right underneath in the middle. This isn't the first jap artist to do this kind of bullshit with large-breasted characters.

>>50118450
I dunno, depends on the tension on those straps/brace, if it's tight enough the middle will crease under her breasts along with the sides.

I am glad that there isn't some kind of morality system set up in Eclipse Phase, cause that would needlessly complicate things way too much. There are so many things you could do that might be considered evil by the authors but because of the differing beliefs of people aren't viewed as evil by the players.

Just to name a few off the top of my head we've got:
>Forking
>Freeman morphs
>AGI's
>Bioconservatism
>Authoritarianism
>Uplifts
>Capitalism vs Socialism
>Indentured Servitude

The authors may be biased, but at least that doesn't translate into gameplay mechanics.

>>50118567
Oops, forgot a few:
>Neotenics
>Exhumans
>AI

>>50116442
Yup. Can confirm. Am /k/ommando. Posted some of the nazi pics.

So we know that you could theoretically put an AGI through a VR combat simulation to train it, the question is since the AGI can think faster than humans how many simulations a day could it go through? Assuming one battle simulation last 24 hours, how many battle simulations would an AGI be able to go through in that same amount of time? And wouldn't it be the same as training them in real life, especially if they didn't know it was a simulation? Couldn't you create an army of super soldiers within a decent amount of time with this?

Also, how many resources are available in the outer rim? Since we're talking about fascist brinkers, assuming you had a group of 100 freeman morphs working for you, would you be able to get a base of operations going? Create some battlesuits or HOPLITE suits maybe? Create more Freeman morphs and AGI's? Would you need more men, or is the outer rim just too resource scarce?

Also why does the Captcha always take 10 attempts before it starts working?

So I get the feeling these threads are slowly dying, so can we all just not start a new one once it's dead? For goodness sake, 99% of the last thread was just one big talk about continuity of conscience, and the second someone mentions the Jovian's everyone gets butthurt, so let's just let these threads die.

>>50118431
I once got banned for reporting gorespam.
Mods are fags

>>50120893

No, fuck you.

>>50120893
What are we supposed to talk about? If you don't like it here than go somewhere else.

>>50119611
AGI's don't fear death like humans do, so you wouldn't need to trick them into thinking that the battle simulations are real.

>>50120961
Don't you get the feeling that these threads are usually being carried entirely by two guys arguing over one issue?

>>50121007
You mean like right now? :)

>>50121007
Yeah, this thread was pretty much going to die till I started complaining about it

>>50121026
Oops, meant to send this >>50121056 to you

>>50120412
>the last one
>implying that he doesn't go unnaground

>>50121092
Never underestimate the /k/ommandos

Speaking of which, what would a brinker society made up of /k/ommandos look like?

>>50121219
Yeah, probably. /pol/ would be the jovian junta, /b/ would be scum (I say this as a fanboy who admits they're a bunch of lazy niggers). Can't think of any other faction.

>>50121253(me)
NVM, just thought of one. /d/ would be the goat circus.

>>50121253
Nigga what? We already have a 4chan scum swarm. You must be new.

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>>50121253
>>50121269

>>50120412
>libertarians = anarcho-capitalists
When will this meme end?

>>50121253
Never been to /sci/, but they'd probably be the Argonauts.

/k/ is usually pretty libertarian, which doesn't really mesh with the authoritarianism of the Junta, but they are also very cautious and survivalist, which is pretty much the Jovian's ideology.

>>50121283
I tend towards the libertarian side, but even I still enjoy large militaries in snappy uniforms and goose-stepping. I don't see a reason we can't have both.

>>50121276
I can't see /k/ really acting as a militia of the scum swarm, not because they wouldn't be a militia, but because they'd see no reason to defend those hedonists.

>>50121353

You've failed to really read the image and understand Scum, I think.

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>>50121283
Never.

>>50121357
The game is open to interpretation

>>50121353

>but because they'd see no reason to defend those hedonists.

>he doesn't know

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>>50121353
/k/ is the hedonists

>>50121375
What a jackass.

>>50121406
>>50121424
No...no...not them. NOT THEM TOO! WHY!!!!?

>>50121471
Why not? :^)

>>50121523
I didn't need to read >>50121424 that. Let's just go back to talking about...what was it we we're talking about? Unconventional weapons? Nazi loli armies? Exhumans?

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>>50121542

Somebody say Exhuman?

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>>50121471
/k/ did not get to furfaggotry through innocent cartoons, though. They went from the other direction...

>>50121219
Would we really be brinkers? I'd imagine that /k/ would turn into a mercenary group with a base somewhere. I really don't get the brinker meme. Scavenging trans-Neptunian icy bodies for deuterium sounds horrible. The Belt is where it's at. Either there or Uranus, which you can actually use lighter-than-air tech for gas mining, as opposed to Jupiter and Saturn, where the wind shear is too vicious. Jupiter's strategic importance is so tempting, though. The only thing Saturn has is some nice moons.

>>50121353
In return, they supply us with dragon dildos.

>>50121607
Gets me every time. Now I want to stat up a satyr pod and a fawn variant. Wait. You could probably do that without making it a pod. It at least has the right number of limbs and is all mammal.

>>50121687
I mean, /k/ might turn into a mercenary group, it kind of depends on the level of bioconservatism they embrace (which would effect how much the rest of the system thinks of them as weirdos). They could really either be Jovians (goes against /k/'s libertarian streak, but they're super cautious and have a strong military), survivalist brinkers (heavily armed, cautious, and less interventionist than the Jovians), or mercenaries like you said. Maybe they'd be heavily armed reclaimers, who knows?

>>50121790
I mean, it's not like /k/ is monolithic either.

>>50121687

You could, but if you wanted it to be most authentic, you'd want a Pod to bridge the gap, and then the cyberbrain avoids weird neurochem problems.

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>>50121790
I can't see them going heavily bioconservative. Too many of them are furries.

>>50121838
Selkies aren't pods, though. I don't thin that it's necessary that it is 100% "authentic". You include some goat DNA to make it nominally a hybrid, and then you just get the legs, tail, hooves, and... fuck. Time to fire up Tor. I have no idea what a goat dick looks like.

>>50121847
But the rest aren't very accepting of the furries.

>>50121847
I think the furryness of /k/ is being a little bit exaggerated here. They'd much rather have their guns turn into girls so they can sex them instead.

>>50121891
Should the guns have pods or masked synthmorphs to roll around in when not being used as guns?

>>50121949
Ummm...not sure. Would /k/ even accept a 3d woman? Maybe the guns have an AGI in them that the /k/ommandos talk to? I'm not sure.

>>50121996
It's fine as long as they act like 2D characters. It's the fabled 2.5D.

>>50121883

Yeah, and selkies have seal faces.

This is what I mean by "authentic", you want to get literal normal, natural looking human top-half and then get that perfect goat DNA split on the bottom half, you need to make a pod which basically uses cybernetics to bridge the gap in-between. Why do you think Critter pods are a thing?

Sure, you could sculpt a human to have hooved feet and really hairy legs, and maybe even use some goat base, but that kind of colors the whole thing, and you're gonna get weird side-effects on the phenotype.

>>50122042
You're really not. It's not actually hard to have good looking abrupt transitions. Head hair is a good example. The issue is making a plantigrade bodyplan into a unguligrade bodyplan, meanwhile maintaining uprightness and surefootedness. It's not supposed to be an actual goat half. In fact, other than the tail, genitalia, and hair, it's going to be very much like a human until you get to the knees.

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>>50122022
Raifus?

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>>50122275
Complete with fluffy tail, anon. I was born a century too early. Fuck.

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>>50121996
The AI is physically tied to the gun, but the gun has an optical coating that the AI can draw on to create an interactive 2D avatar.

>>50122324
This makes me wonder again how big a ghostrider module is. I bet you could fit one in the stock of a rifle.

>>50122422
Almost certainly, IIRC it's the same principle behind ecto-muses, so it should be small enough to wear as pendant or watch, and thus, to put in a gun.

>>50122422

It's implanted, so assume, like, mini size or something like that. It's basically the equivalent of a redundant mesh insert or insertable ecto, it can't be huge.

>>50122443
>>50122422
>>50122457

In fact, why assume you can't install one already? AI are supposed to be in nearly every device - in fact a dev recently said while they admit the writing hasn't always been clear on this the intent was that theoretically you could spend all day chatting to the stuff in your apartment. If you were some kind of shut-in weirdo.

I used to deride Eclipse Phase as a hamfisted SJW filled degeneracy party, but then I saw that you can have raifus and loli nazis. I take back everything I said against the setting, this game is perfect.

>>50122443
There's not a lot of room in a semi-automatic pistol, though.

>>50122457
It should be less than either of those, since it doesn't need to interface with the brain, send and receive EM waves, or have a visual interface.

>>50122480
There's only some things that would be better with AI. Your lamp does not need AI. It just needs to be hooked up to your local mesh network so your muse can turn it on and off for you as needed. Your fridge might do with an AI, which could tell you where you put the eggs or that you need to eat the Chinese soon or it'll go bad.

>>50122523
Only with homebrew additions to the setting. Fuck. I kind of want to write a setting based on EP using GURPS, but I'm a lazy shit. All of those PDFs, man.

>>50122573
Nah man, you don't need homebrew. Sure, the raifus and loli nazis don't exist yet, but the system is there to put them in the setting through your character.

For loli nazis:
>>50107376

For raifus:
>>50122324

>>50122629
But flat probability systems are shit. SHIT.

>>50122573

Well, I suppose this depends on how you define "device". Your lamp may not need an AI, but all of your meshed lighting might have a single AI. Fridge probably has an AI. And a cooking unit could fit one. Entertainment system might have an AI, or your muse might just coordinate it for you. Doors might be watched by a security AI. It all depends on what exactly ends up in your Internet of Things. And how many devices transhumans are able to stack into a single space too, I guess.

Because while they do similar things, your stovetop, toaster and microwave all do them in different ways.

>>50122646
Oh, right. Maybe we can find someone willing to translate the setting to GURPS?

>>50122682
The setting has enough problems that I feel like it would be easier to just rewrite it than fix things one at a time.

>>50122648
Well you say "AI" but unless you're some kind of scientist or extreme sadist it's almost certainly just run with smart software. Your muse will calibrate it all according to your preferences, no doubt, but that's about as close to sapient governance as most "things" will ever need to get.

>>50122682
Start with Transhuman Space. Modify as necessary.

>>50122699
Yeah, good point. It's a shame too, Eclipse Phase isn't good because of its transhumanism or its politics, it's good because it gives you all these future technologies, then takes away all the limitations on how to use them. This, combined with its lack of morality system, allows the player to have a fantastic playground on which to do things. The mechanics and hamfisted writing of the factions really needs to go, however.

>>50122699
The setting is good. The biggest problem is the political bias in the books, but even that doesn't actually distort the universe. After all, you got plenty of Jovefags here despite them being absolutely demonized in the books, because at the end of the day the criticism of them comes from the ideological level rather than simply portraying everyone except anarchists as retarded and incompetent. So the devs may think, "Heh, we really stuck it to those statist pigs by showing how great life is in our ideal society," but even their ideal society is not utopian, nor are the "bad guys" (PC, Jovians, Ultimates) dystopian.

Really the only truly incoherent part of the setting itself I think is the existence of the Jovians as what they are. That society is just so absurd in that situation (I mean really, fucking (by that point Latin) American neoconservatives, presumably at least a century after the death of that political movement) that I think it's preposterous that it's not only still around, but a major part of the setting.

Because it's so absurd, people also handwave it away, pretend it doesn't exist, and just claim the Jovians are fascists or theocrats, but that's really the only serious flaw that exists in the setting.

>>50122803
Yeah, the Jovian's authoritarianism, bioconservatism, and even religiousness can stay, but they really need to fix the incomprehensible mess that is the details. They're fascist, a junta, and also a republic. What? They have resleeving centers and fantastic healthcare, except when they don't and everyone has cancer.
They have freedom of speech, but not freedom of the press, however the heck that works. They name their stuff after cold war era figures despite the fact that most of the population at that point would barely even remember those figures, let alone idolize them.

But despite that, its still a good setting, it just needs a reworking in tone.

>>50122885
i think the healthcare is "citizen first", the facisism, conservative, republic makes sense. The junta is a nickname remember?. Its an oligarchy masquerading as a elective republic.

Where did this nazi loli avatarfag come from?

>>50123142
I think it's one of the joveposters

>>50123142
I thought up an idea >>50107376 and now I can't stop. Help me. Please.

>>50123129
>Its an oligarchy masquerading as a elective republic
Dude just like America lmao

>>50123244
>sick meme
I mean it is supposed to america through a banana republic starship troopers lense

>>50122803
Well, a lot of it would come from differences in the pre-Fall stuff.

>>50122885
I have problems with how diverse some parts of the setting are but how much they lack diversity in other aspects. Notably, there's religion.

>The rigid structures and dogmas enveloping Christianity and Judaism prohibited these religions from adapting to the cultural, philosophical, and especially scientific/technological changes transhumanity underwent. Today, they are mere shadows of their former glory, with many practitioners seen as pitiful individuals unable to let go of their earthbound delusions. Islam, while still holding some controversial views and values, managed to adapt by accepting a more liberal and even secular view. It also benefited from being more widespread among early space colonists and survivors of the Fall.
If you find a rabbi that says one thing, you can find a rabbi who says the exact opposite. Christianity != Roman Catholicism, as the devs seem to believe. That being said, I think that maybe the Fall could heal some schisms, say between the Catholic Copts and the Orthodox Copts. I mean, who cares? We survived the Fall and we're all Copts. Let's have communion in Coptic together.
Also lolIslam.

>>50123142
>complaining about cute girls in best uniform
You are not my nigga.

>>50123244
Oh man. If Trump wins, it'll prove the devs wrong and make them hate America more at the same time. I don't actually like The Donald. He's just the less horrible option.

>>50123244
Well, it's like a 2005-era Democrat's dystopian view of America, except where the white man has gone extinct.

>>50123293
risking a /pol/ening how is he the less worst option?

>>50123325
Nobody answer this man. Let's not do this here.

>>50123325
Protectionist, anti-war, anti-imperialism candidate. Stance on immigration is also positive.

>>50123334
did you just ASSUME MY SPECIES

>>50123325
He doesn't antagonize Putin, for one. Muh guns for another.

>>50123334
I deleted the arguable stuff.

>>50123356
topkek

>Jovian habitat named Trump
Yes or no?

>Make Earth Great Again

>>50123378
>jovians, literally mexican dubyas in space
>having anything but burning hatred for trump and his wall

>>50123360
>He doesn't antagonize Putin
This is the most annoying argument I've encountered. Putin is a calculating kleptocrat not some genocidal fanatic. You don't need to baby him.

>>50123348
honestly, I think the man is too stupid to accomplish anything. Its not even same political values or opposing political values. Anti-Immigration? Fine. Systemic Federal deportation? Nope lets build the wall. which is like... its so stupid i can even come up with a suitable analogy. And hes protectionist in an age when "american" business are international globalist conglomerates. On the fiscal front he cant even run his own company. Hes the kind of person who would compare balancing the federal budget to balancing a checkbook.

>>50123293
Yeah, if anything people should be even more religious than before, since the only way people are going to freely accept continuity of conscience between morphs is if they believe in the existence of a soul. And why did Islam survive so well? How did the super orthodox, theocratic people of the middle east adapt better than Joe the pastor and his almost heretical followers? And the writers also mentions Buddhism as having survived just fine, despite the fact that the transhumanism messes with the cycle of reincarnation and the immortality makes the goal of Nirvana impossible.

>>50123432
he adopts a populist image, but theirs nothing behind it just more retardation.

>>50123432
>>50123446
In hindsight i shouldn't have written that so antagonistically trump-anon. But those are my points

>>50123412
>you don't need to baby him
Nor do you need to fight some contemporary globalist Cold War against him.

>>50123432
>trump is stupid
Then you have fallen for baseless propaganda.

>protectionism is worthless because tncs exist
Quite the opposite.

>>50123432
Actually, it gives you more time in a human body, so as long as you aren't evil, you have more time in the state in which it is easiest to reach nirvana.

>>50123474
trump = nirvana
got it

>>50123472
Protectionism is bad anyway. We need more STEM degrees and less history majors going on to work in coffee shops.

>>50123472
there gonna jump ship and leave an economic disaster.
>>50123472
Anon in some ways i hate Hillary more than stumpenator, But my opinions on trump are form watching him directly


>>50123522
what we need are blowjob machines

>>50123474
Meant for
>>50123439

anyways /pol/ is over back to nazi lolis

>>50123474
>>50123537
If you choose to stay in a human body that is. Which opens up a whole new can of worms. Are synthmorphs at the same level of humans? What about uplifts? I'm not saying they couldn't adapt, but it isn't some magic religion that is so much better at adapting than Christianity or Judaism.

>>50123530
Just realize that a wall won't get funded by Congress. The only stuff he could get passed that bothers me is the protectionist crap. If we can't compete in the areas where the jobs are being lost, we just have to find where we can compete.

>>50123572
Uplifting lets an animal have the advantages of a human. Being a synthmorph lets you cut off yourself from worldly needs, so it would actually be beneficial.

>>50123522
Free trade literally only benefits a tiny elite at the extreme expense of everone else. What we need is not GDP growth (and actually a contraction would be goid) but low-skill job growth, specifically manufacturing growth. The only way to do that is by imposing prohibitively high tariffs on imports and the equivalent of sin taxes on TNCs. Of course this is ultimately a band-aid solution, as the reason for decline in these jobs is technological, but if we want capitalism to work in a way that works for us, then productive efficiency must be sacrificed.

>>50123578
who knows, with how many republicans are throwing in with trump, and populist pressure if he wins, who knows. He could scream "the system is rigged" and executive order it. He definitely wouldn't be above it.

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>>50123610

>>50123184
Y'know avatarfagging is against the rules right?

>>50123599
Okay, fair enough, but my point on Christianity and Judaism still stands.

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>>50123632
>>50123610
oh shit wrong image

>>50123623
No, because then they can impeach him.

>>50123658
"The system is rigged!"
It could work

>>50123647
Hey, not all the nazi pics are mine. Plus isn't avatarfagging when you post pics of the same character over and over?

>>50123655
This meme image has been debunked more times than it's even been posted.

I seriously hope you don't believe that someone is telling the truth because they claim themselves as an expert, least of all on fucking 4chan.

Every economy in the world operated more effectively for the people who lived there before the advent of international free trade. The nature of such an institution is that it scalps prosperity from all to line the pockets of the scalpers.

>>50123726
>This meme image has been debunked more times than it's even been posted.
Ill give you the benefit of the doubt but

>Every economy in the world operated more effectively for the people who lived there before the advent of international free trade
okay buddy now ive heard it all

>>50123692
I remember a guy who always posted pictures of khajits to go along with his post.
Not of any particular kahjit mind you just khajits.
He got banned for avatarfagging and bitched about it in /q/.
So if always posting khajits counts as avatarfagging then I don't see how always posting nazi lolis isn't.

>>50123752
Ah, well I don't want to be banned, so I will be a little bit more varied in my posts then.

>>50123749
Keep in mind that the institution of free trade is very new, really only coming into vogue in the late 1970s.

>>50123779
>Every economy in the world operated more effectively for the people who lived there before the advent of international free trade
Okay you know what, I give up. You win. All hail Trump. May he carry us unto glory

>>50123778
Knew it was a jovefag.

Why do you delude yourself about them? They are a faction of wetback Dubya fans, not fascists, not even statists. It's like Dick Cheney and co. took over Guatemala or something, not like Pinochet, let alone anything resembling der Fuhrer.

>>50123835
What in my post told you I was a Jovefag?

>>50123868
Based on your picture.

>>50123868
The power armour. Do you deny it?

>>50123877
>>50123882
Funny, I didn't know the Jovian's are the only ones with power armor. Anyways, no, I'm not a Jovefag. I'm the guy who tries to start his own faction cause all the other ones are terrible.

>muh anarchy

>>50123916
>not making executive action in space, which becomes so large that it becomes its own polity

>>50123966
You mean Executive Outcomes?

>>50123981
brain fart yeah thats what i meant

>>50124029
Personally I'm going full blown stratocracy, with AGI freeman Krieg trooper rip offs as my soldiers. If you're a flat you can join me as an officer, otherwise stay out of my way as I stake out land on Earth.

>>50124455
>thinly veiled helghast
okay sempai
but im not that familiar with eclipse phase what are "agi freemen"

>>50124516
Ah, I see, you're that disgusting ESL

>>50124536
anon i just started reading the sourcebook today

>>50124545
Freeman is a type of morph designed to reduce free will, so they will follow my orders without question. AGI is artificial general intelligence, basically AI as smart as a human.

>>50124590
fascism is only fun if its consensual
thats why i like the helghast, despite the secret police and everything the government geniunaly has popular support (yes propaganda and all that)

>>50106182
>relatively safe fabrication method for dioxygen difluoride
Even if you could manufacture it is that shit stable enough to store let alone spray it around like it's water?

>>50124667
>facism is only fun if it consensual
>mfw im imagining a nazi loli lecturing me with that quote

>>50124667
Yeah, but it becomes much easier to convince people to follow you when you already have an army under you, and you aren't just some hobo with dreams of grandeur.

>>50124779
weres the army come from? Argentinian infomorphs? Oh starship trooper style! Service gurantees citizenship!

>>50124812
AGI's can be created, then sleeved into Freeman morphs.

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>>50124880
You could just do forks too if you really don't want to put the effort in.

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>>50124904
And have another Helghast.

>>50124880
as long as the agi's are copied human's (or think they are humans with freewill) that sounds cools
the human element is half the fun

>>50124926
Sure, I'll just fork myself. An army of me, going to take over the world. How terryfing.

>>50125055
sweet, actually a pretty orginal idea i like it

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>>50125055
Slow down, Horatio.

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So how difficult would it be to make a vehicle/synth morph generally useful? I just want to be a semi transformable motorcycle for hot bitches to ride on me into battle and across the surface of Mars.

>>50125098
Why should I slow down? The Haratio faction is entirely possible within the Eclipse Phase universe (although I'm not as narcissistic as he is) and it's already being done by the Pax Familae Crime organization. I don't see why it couldn't be done to a military organization bent on reclaiming Earth and eventually wiping out transhumanism.

>>50125286

>Cyberbrain, Shape Adjusting, Extra Limbs, Chameleon Skin (so you can emote), Articulated Weapon mounts

Done.

So i'm hoping on playing this game sometime, I like the universe quite a bit and it's stylistic choices.

I need to know a few things, how crunchy is this game in play, and is there any supplements or mechanics that you think could be done without? Also how married is it to any canon, or is it just a world to play games within?

>>50122646
Only people who don't understand statistics think this. The only difference is that bonuses become more valuable in a non-linear fashion. It doesn't really make a difference either way.

>>50124880
>Army of freemen morphs
>Winning anything
Just shine some lights at them lmao

>>50125495
> how crunchy is this game in play
Simpler than the 40kRPGs, but not a whole lot simpler. Much of the crunch comes from consequences of the setting not the rules.
>supplements or mechanics that you think could be done without?
You only really need Rimward, Sunward, Firewall or Gatecrashing if you plan on having a game set in the outer system/inner system/Firewall agents/exoplanets, so generally you don't need them all. Panopticon, NPC File 1 and X-Risks are what I use the most.
>Also how married is it to any canon, or is it just a world to play games within?
I'm not sure what you're asking, there's a lot of setting, but its well made with a lot of "gaps" to set a game in.

>>50125495
The most amount of crunch you'll encounter is when building a character or updating a character sheet.

>>50125495

The setting is intrinsically flexible, which seems to be kind of the inverse of what you're asking. Lots of major setting plot points are more open-ended questions than anything. Almost all of in-setting information is written from the perspective of characters in it, and offers conflicting information or viewpoints.

What shape the setting takes exactly depends on the needs of the GM and the group.

>>50125758
The neurons that make the Freeman vulnerable to light has to be activated for it to work, otherwise they behave like normal human eyes.

>>50125758
>>50125772
>>50125790

For example, i'm incredibly inspired by cyberpunk so I was hoping on running a game of criminals/dirty folks on Mars in the vein of cyberpunk. That's quite divided from things like x-risks and Firewall work, which the game assumes is the default method of play.

Also, the multitude of backgrounds and morphs is rather ridiculous, i'll probably stick with the broader things of Core than the more specific things of other supplements.

>>50125868
Well, x-risks and Firewall are mainly for an excuse as to why the Jovian and Scum are working together on some hab.

>>50125835
I was actually thinking of the lasers which wipe out any attempt to expand with meat from half a light second out, ground armies died on earth :^)

>>50125890
Oh, well yeah, but I don't see how freemen morphs are particularly vulnerable to that.

Also, what weapon are you talking about? Could you explain it a little more, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

>>50125887
I'm thinking of running this game in media res, the players are already established in the criminal world of Mars, depending on where the game goes the campaign after may have a character or characters recruited by Firewall.

What about keeping with Core elements, is there an expectation for having the greater variety of character choices or can I put the kaibosh on that?

>>50125926

Just tell them you're running an underworld focused game on Mars, so if somebody shows up playing a Exhuman Xenomorph who only knows how to rip and tear, or a Jovian Catholic Nun whose only vice is not enough hail marys it's their own fault for being out of place.

I'd also say to let people look at other books, but not force them to pick from them - like if somebody's actually interested in being an Infolife or Uplift the specific ones added in Transhuman are much more flavorful than the generic in Core, and like, if nobody reads Firewall they'd never know Martian Reclaimers are a thing and thus technically playable (and probably criminal).

>>50125955
I tend to do Session 0s where we hash out the campaign and characters that way we don't fall into out of place characters.

>>50125974

Solid choice, better than some people I've seen in this thread handle it.

>>50125922
Space combat is very deterministic because everything is visible ranges are huge compared to movement. Additionally it favors the defender greatly.

You can have a million morph army, and a single battery of 500 MW lasers can kill every ship carrying them well before they arrive. Things get a lot worse when the defenses are X-ray FELs with a hard-kill range out past a light minute (if the target can be hit at that range), and a soft kill limit which stretches across the whole solar system.

Of course, that kind of thing is huge, with an acceleration ring potentially a full KM long, and there's a lot of political complexities with building a weapon which can irradiate a ship or station essentially anywhere in the solar system though, so between those two that's really rare.

The point being space defenses aren't terribly expensive for the ability to make space invasions really hard to pull off. Really lopsided looking fights like the Battle Of Locus can be won by severely outnumbered defenders because of this power. And looking outsystem, the Ultimates are planning on turning Xiphos into a 5.5 km long super battleship so they can try to take Chat Noir.

Assuming you can achieve space supremacy around the target (which can be hard, if they have X-ray FELs at standoff range, IE anywhere), then actually taking a hab is a non-trivial affair as it turns into awful CQB against a dug in defender down to the nanoscale level. Even if it isn't scuttled, you'll likely have to rebuild the whole thing thanks to all the traps installed.

The overall point being, putting a lot of thought into what kind of morphs your soldiers use is like putting a lot of thought into their boot specs. It matters, but you have much larger problems to solve well before that becomes necessary.

That's a big part of why wars beyond memetic warfare and commando raids doesn't really happen. It makes storming a trench in 1914 look easy.

>>50126433
Well the reason I specified Freeman morphs was just cause of the extra loyalty I would have from them, not cause of some abilities they would have. And you are right, space combat would suck for me, but that's why my main goal would be reclamation at first. Sure, the PC might not like it, but I doubt they'd be willing to start a war over it. This would allow me to expand beyond the outer rim without having to go to war.

>>50126433
>That's a big part of why wars beyond memetic warfare and commando raids doesn't really happen.

I'd argue that commando raids would likely be the first step in establishing a beach-head for an actual war, were it to happen, in Eclipse Phase. You don't need to use expensive and easily shot down landing craft to get our troops on a planet; you need something capable of manufacturing bodies on the ground, and you need a way of egocasting to that point.

In the same way that the easiest way to get down to Earth and past the cordon is to just egocast past it, a commando raid to establish facilities to receive and sleeve your troops would surely be the best way to circumvent the need for costly space combat.

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>>50126480
>the PC might not like it, but I doubt they'd be willing to start a war over it

The PC have a vested interest in preventing reclamation. I don't know why they wouldn't. Additionally, I imagine they'd see warships trespassing in their space as a cassus belli.

>>50126480
>but that's why my main goal would be reclamation at first
Earth is surrounded by heavy space defenses, and is basically a death trap. It's like avoiding the USN by invading Antarctica, except all the penguins have airborne Ebola, and the whole continent is surrounded by nuclear seamines.

Of course, if the PC really made the Interdiction, they might be extremely willing to go to war over it. Even if they didn't maintaining the interdiction is a big part of their defense policy, and for now at least, the LLA shares that.

>>50126760
If you can actually take and hold a nanofab annex for the hours needed to make anything sure, but they're just cut the power and wait. The kind of operation which is able to hold the power supplies, long range communicators, and nanofab annexes basically implies that you've seized the whole hab; so doing that as part of the plan to bring in the army you intend to seize the hab with seems tautological.

It would be easier to do on a smaller scale, but you'll be making stuff really slowly. I think it's an important part of an invasion, but you still need to take the space around a hab.

>>50126809
>>50126816
Especially if it's a small war. Knocking over a brinker with some fetishes is *way* easier to justify than tangling with the JSF, TCF, or even the Sabate Swarm.

>>50126809
You just need to be able to cause enough damage to the PC. Maybe ally with the LLA and Jovians to reinforce your strength. Keep in mind that you'd be taking over land that the PC has no intention of using anyways, so their vested interest can't be that strong, not enough that they'd be willing to go to war with 2-3 warlike factions. Wars are terrible for the economy, and even if the Earth territory goes to factions that aren't them, it still opens up new avenues for trade and such.

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>>50123916

>>50126912
>launches standard 25mm rails

I don't think that's why it's called a 'rail gun' anon

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>>50123325

>>50127062
Fuck off.

>>50126433
Light minutes vs targets capable of at least some manoeuvring is more or less unfeasible. But 1-2 light seconds is probably doable. Only small ships with chemical or metallic hydrogen drives would be able to dodge them at such a distance. So corvettes and drones/missiles. Heavy ships will need to hang back beyond some kind of detachable shielding.

Problem is - if laser platform can't dodge itself it will be sniped from much larger distance. There is also a danger of being attacked by semi-relativistic projectiles with antimatter drives.

Though against small scale attacks laser battery is more than enough.

>>50126853
Jovians and LLA won't go to war with PC if they have a choice. They still want to live in this Solar System. Not drift through space on irradiated husks of their habs.

War between main military forces in the setting will lead to mutual destruction. Number of survivors would be somewhere in thousands. At best.

>>50126816
I think the "take the space around a hab" part is vastly overrated and, if the assumption is that there is no way to do so because it's impossible to dislodge the defenders, it's something of a folly to do so.

Anyway, yeah, it'll require time - unless there's already some bodies made up, presumably the same services that allow for your player characters to find a body to sleeve into means that there are often bodies available that don't need to be manufactured beforehand. If that's not possible, small raids to set up the facilities to handle fabrication of simple synths and egocasting whatsits would have to be done well in advance to allow for the time it takes to manufacture things; that's a case of planning ahead, and it wouldn't be suitable for a spur of the moment sort of deal, but I doubt putting your soldiers in combat morphs, equipping them and putting them on a transport ship is a spur of the moment thing either. It's just that egocasting in forks of soldier egos to inhabit bodies on-site, either ones you've prepared in advance or by compromising a body-bank style outfit if present, doesn't involve getting your soldiers shot up as they go in by a naval force you could never hope to beat.

>>50127142
>Light minutes vs targets capable of at least some manoeuvring is more or less unfeasible.
If they do maneuver at that range, but maneuvering burns a lot of fuel. The presence of such a weapon increases the cost of attacking even if it never hits.

>>50127142
You can't react dodge a laser weapon, it will have full accuracy against anyone not randomwalking already. Against a randomwalking target you're limited to about a light second of range, or maybe up to three if you're being fed targeting data from a forward-deployed sensor transmitting via QE comm.

A ship will run itself out of fuel trying to combat randomwalk for weeks to months.

>Heavy ships will need to hang back beyond some kind of detachable shielding.
Hang back a light hour away or behind a plane, because this thing can fire from LEO, and melt the hull of a ship in orbit around Mars.

>Problem is - if laser platform can't dodge itself it will be sniped from much larger distance.
Making one which can dodge should be possible. It's basically a bunch of lead, a really large particle accelerator (which is likely a lot smaller with EP tech, seeing as particle accelerator small arms exist), and a 10 MW reactor.

If you use a (non-relativistic) physical projectile it will have time to move, or deflect the projectile with laser fire.

>There is also a danger of being attacked by semi-relativistic projectiles with antimatter drives.
This is a good trade of resources.
An FEL is a lot cheaper than the literal tons of antimatter needed for fuel an RKV gun, for the same cost you should be able to make at least a hundred FELs.

>>50127170
Yeah, tactically the defender is favored, but on a strategic scale first strike capability with RKVs and fuckoff-huge lasers wins. That's an arms race which the solar system really can't afford.

>>50127207
Making bodies takes hours each (assuming you're using synths), so it's going to be really hard to not get overrun in the several hour period where you have no reinforcements yet, and the defenders will get more and more desperate to stop you. At some point writing off the annex and bombing the commandos to hell looks like a good idea.

>>50127328
You might be able to reduce/eliminate the amount of lead needed by using X-ray diffraction rather than reflection. I'm a little fuzzy on what you'd use instead though, but it might be a very cheap platform for the defensive power.

>>50127328
>An FEL is a lot cheaper than the literal tons of antimatter needed for fuel an RKV gun, for the same cost you should be able to make at least a hundred FELs.
Though you'll need to disperse them over a very wide volume of space or else they can be all killed by one RKV. No one stops maniacs with RKV from adding a second stage with hundreds of small missiles to antimatter base drive. They will be able to manoeuvrer and will be much harder to get a lock on. And still will have enough energy to destroy anything that they hit.

That's basically the EP apocalyptic scenario - factions with antimatter exchange strikes with RKVs. No one survives.

>Hang back a light hour away or behind a plane, because this thing can fire from LEO, and melt the hull of a ship in orbit around Mars.
Yeah without antimatter drive "missiles" you'll need to use asteroids with bolt-on drives as cover. Though at such distances the main problem will be not even getting reading on position of your target but in aiming your x-ray "gun". We are talking here 10^-10 degrees or even less.

Still probably mutual annihilation by laser and RKV strikes from both sides.

>You can't react dodge a laser weapon, it will have full accuracy against anyone not randomwalking already.
Well how long a target needs and can randomwalk depends on how small can be metallic hydrogen tanks be made. The smaller they are the less the distance on which missiles/drones will need to start their dance. And the linger they will be able to continue it because their angle size will be smaller and they will need to expend less fuel to dodge.

>>50128054
>factions with antimatter
Antimatter is not necessary for building RKVs.

>>50125926
Game sounds good, if you're running it online I'd love to play.

>>50128513
But it's much easier with it.

>>50128536
Actually, it only allows you to scale down the pulses. The thing you need are fissibles.

>>50128595
In EP it may be a problem. Antimatter while needing a lot of energy to create is actually easier to get. Because it doesn't need you to have a big planet.

>>50124455
>>50124880
Freeman morphs are for suppressing people with developed egos.

AGI can be made to order, and are by their nature innocent and trusting.

No reason to combine the two, in fact the Freeman is a pretty dreadful morph that you definitely wouldn't want serving as your military force. It's designed to be easy to suppress as much as it's designed to suppress the ego inside.

Now, insofar as military in EP goes, the only sensible strategy, provided you need to "conquer" territory, is to run bots with AGIs, not sleeve soldiers into morphs. Intelligences that can direct swarms of drones are more valuable than slightly more effective warriors.

Maybe you get some volunteers or some real badasses like the Ultimates, who can serve in the vanguard, but there's no good reason to expose your people to death.

Furthermore, in EP, the cyberwar is more important than the actual war. Control over ship or hab systems means victory - it's the reason you'd put boots in them to begin with (unless you just want to kill the people inside, in which case it will certainly help you do that but you may want to look into strategic weapons at that point). This means that cyberwarriors are considerably more valuable than actual warriors. Hell, you get a few wizard-level AGI hackers and you can turn the enemy's forces against them.

>>50127328
>so it's going to be really hard to not get overrun in the several hour period where you have no reinforcements yet, and the defenders will get more and more desperate to stop you.

Presumably this is why, being a commando raid, you would do things like "planning ahead" to make sure that you're not discovered and that you've got - whether through sabotage, obfuscation or what-have-you - the time to do this sort of thing. You're basically relying on better control over information as a counter to the better firepower available to the defender; if you plan to give that up, then any raid is probably doomed to failure because of the overwhelming numbers.

If the plan is to pit your handful of people in an open firefight against a force that outnumbers them massively, and take absolutely no steps whatsoever to try and mitigate the advantages the enemy has, nor exploit any weaknesses they have, or even make use of any benefits that might be afforded by the small size of your force... that's pretty much a suicide mission.

Or something your average player characters would come up with.

Is there a way to signal that I'm not a threat to anyone and everyone?

>>50129623
>Wait, That Was You?

>>50129669
Darn it. If it takes becoming a meme to get people to buzz off, so bee it.

>>50129623
Be a slut who offers their holes to anybody that asks.

>>50129888
What if they don't ask because they think you're an exergent?

>>50129934
I don't think there are exsurgents who operate by spreading STDs so I'm pretty sure you'll be alright.

>>50129934
Why would they think you're an exsurgent when you could just be a nymphomaniac?

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>>50103724

Would infolife be capable of eating, and perhaps more importantly, tasting?

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>>50131046

If they got the hardware. The software's all in there, it's how also they know how to like, breathe and walk and stuff.

>>50127170
>War between main military forces in the setting will lead to mutual destruction. Number of survivors would be somewhere in thousands. At best.
That's the entire point of the alliance. I go up to the LLA and Jovian's and say "Hey, you and I both want to reclaim Earth, but the PC doesn't want us to. Let's make sure that if they try to stop us it will be mutually assured destruction." The PC isn't stupid, they're not going to start nuclear armageddon just so they can keep someone from claiming a piece of dirt they don't even want, and the Jovian's and LLA know that with the alliance and MAD they won't ever have to go to war with the PC.

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>>50130040
Because they're firewall agents.

>>50131046
By "infolife" I assume you meaen AGIs. Yes they have the capabilities, it all depends on their morph though. Transhuman goes into detail about how freaked out AGIs get when sleeving into flesh for the first time. The sensory input is overwhelming and they literally act like adult babies.

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>>50128757
There is an alternate strategy to getting into a big cyberwar, and that is going with the Jovian method of making most of your stuff largely immune to hacking. I'm not talking about full blown bioconservatism, just hardwiring and no cyberbrains. Granted, your own hacking would be impaired (because no AGI's to hack the enemy) but far less so than theirs would be. It would force the enemy to fight you with conventional warfare.

Now, you might be right about the Freeman morphs, although I don't think they would be suppressed by the enemy. My question is how effective is psychosurgery? Couldn't I just fork myself, then psychosurgically alter myself to be more obedient and willing to die?

>>50131884

The forks would be slightly more unstable, you might need to plan like, a "cool-down" time for their stress to reduce but yes.

>>50128054
>No one stops maniacs with RKV from adding a second stage with hundreds of small missiles to antimatter base drive.
No one does, but you can't make a rocket and guidance package which survives being accelerated at well over a million gravities.

This becomes extra true if you're trying to make a rocket which can meaningfully change the vector of something traveling at .9 c in less than a year.

Shotgun RKVs are possible, but guided ones are not. EP railguns can't use smart ammo for similar reasons.

>>50129031
>Just break into a secure site in a panopticonic society and secretly hold it for 5 hours before you get anything out of it, then like 80 for hours which it still builds things.
It's really not easy to do this, like you'd need massive rioting in the hab as cover, like subverting a significant amount of the population. My overall point is that this kind of operation is complicated enough that the part of the operation where you actually hold a manufacturing area and build up forces requires you to already have significant control of the hab.

If you have a fleet, I'm not sure that this is actually easier than doing the same hard prepwork of agitating and subverting the population and taking informational control away from the hab, before rolling up in a destroyer to restore order, and that is more likely to succeed.

I'm starting to think this is less isn't actually easier than invasion via warship. It's something which is vastly more appealing when moving in a warship isn't possible, either because you don't have one, or because its not feasible politically to move the ship.

>>50129623
A good starting point is not making pod armies of nazi AGIs. Just be cool and play nice, that's what the rep economy is supposed to encourage anyway.

>>50131330
The LLA doesn't want reclamation. They have growing voter blocks which support it, but most of the population still remembers all the horrors down their. The Jovians can't afford to muscle in on anyone.

>>50132093
Is it the psychosurgery that makes them stressed or the forking? Cause if it's the psychosurgery then after I've altered it I could fork it as many times as I want right?

>>50132150

Both. Psychosurgery almost always inflicts SV, and you always take 2 SV for knowing you're a fork. It basically piles on.

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>>50132183
Okay, but forking multiple times shouldn't pile on an additional 2 SV right? You could produce 200 forks after letting them cool down after psychosurgery but they'll all just have 2 SV? Forking doesn't stress the original I think, so you could just fork the original 200 times?

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>>50126990
don't make the man in the power armored scaly-suit rail you anon. I know 25mm doesn't sound like a lot but you'll be unhappy regardless.

>>50132183
Won't multiforking lead to hardening? It's a moxi penalty but in the end you get a bunch of nazis that don't give a fuck.

>>50132310

Well, depending on what level of Fork they are, they might not even get MOX. Actually, this raises a technical question, I don't know if weaker forks or ALI can become hardened...

>>50132334
I thought that was supposed to be alpha nazi forks. Basically agent Smith in EP and in physical world.

>>50132249
If you make a fork, you're also a fork now.

>>50132299
The problem is that railguns use rails to accelerate projectiles, they don't shoot rails.

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>>50132310
Yeah, basically. Just fork once, then psychosurgically alter yourself to be more obedient to you and have less fear of death and empathy, then fork that version of yourself until he becomes hardened to forking, then fork him a bajillion times and put him in as many furies as you can produce. Give him a kick ass nazi uniform and enjoy your newfound empire.

>>50132472
Won't it be better to alter yourself to not have any doubts about chosen path and than fork?

>>50131884
Resistance to cyberbrain hacking is a valuable quality in a fight against TITANs or similarly powerful opponents, but it doesn't matter much in a fight between transhumans. In the first place, getting to a situation where that will matter is very difficult, because there's no reason to fight field battles in space, and if you ever try, there's weapons that will wipe your forces out before they ever have the opportunity to do anything.

Transhuman war in EP can be won in 2 ways - the cyberwar/espionage route in which you have elites infiltrate enemy habs and commandeer their systems (critical ones will be off the mesh whether it's Jovian or not), or the industrial route, in which you throw up enough hostile matter at your opponent that its defenses are overwhelmed for logistical reasons, no matter their quality.

Jovians rely on the former for their offense and the latter for their defense, but the fact of the matter is that they cannot win pitched battle either way it's being fought.

The PC, and the Titanians (or AA as it exists in the strategic alliance sense) for that matter, brute force everything with vastly superior industrial capacity and adaptability.

The only groups that operate primarily according to the doctrine of infiltration are comparatively weak organizations like the Ultimates and individual autonomist habs. If you want to fight a winning war against the PC or the AA, you can't do it on the battlefield.

You need either to train up some true badasses that will be able to go in as a small squad and seize control of your enemy's systems, or your need to (possibly literally) blot out the sun with AGI controlled drone swarms to meet their defenses head-on.

An army is just detrimental no matter how you spin it.

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>>50132542
You'd need to find someone else to psychosurgically alter you, and I'm not sure they'd be comfortable altering you in the way you want. Plus, psychosurgery can alter memories and personalities, but I don't think you can just implant ideologies into the brain. Besides, I have almost no doubts already.

That being said, on second thought, instead of putting your forks into furies, you should put them into splicers, which cost about 1/8 as much, reserving the furies for special forces only.

>>50132639
>instead of putting your forks into furies, you should put them into splicers, which cost about 1/8 as much
If you're growing the morphs yourself don't splicers/furies cost roughly the same resources to manufacture?

>>50132850
Furies need more resources to support. In food. At least in theory. They also probably have a lot of other mods.

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>>50132850
>>50132865
How fast do biomorphs grow anyways? I heard they grow into adulthood in about 3 years, but is there a way to do it faster? Cause otherwise you'd never really get to make your nazi army in a game (unless said game last 3 years or has a time skip).

>>50133145
1-3 years for a biomorph, 6 months for a pod, which is basically a biomorph with a lot of shortcuts taken.

>>50133167
>>50133145

Actually, I believe the quoted number in the Core book (when talking about brokerage) is 1-2 years, I can't actually find a specific source about the 3 years. Pods take a maximum of 6 months depending on complexity.

>>50124770
No, and the fumes would kill you in either case

>>50133145
>game doesn't last even 3 years
>when the average travel time between locations is several months
>when the average length of deployment on a contract is years, at least periods of 6 months
>when you can simulspace your time away at 1:60 speeds

I don't know if you've ever played this game before but there's a lot of downtime.

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>>50133167
>>50133187
Oh, well one year isn't that bad, I guess you could make your dream army come true then. You'd need a lot of exowombs though, and a base of operations. Honestly, you could probably start out as a security corps on Extropia, using your troops to gain resources and grow more troops until you can afford to build your own habitats and headquarters.

>>50126433
You're dramatically overestimating the effective range of lasers. Diffraction is a bitch.

>>50133242

>and a base of operations

Pretty easy, call dibs on some rock or iceball nobody has dibs on or no means to enforce the international dibs protocol on. Drones chip away, use raw material to build habitation, sell or trade off the excess.

>>50133292
Not for x-ray lasers. They are insane.

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>>50133301
Yup, and there's a lot of rocks and asteroids to claim. Truth is, you can expand a ton without stepping on anybody's toes, although the autonomists neighbors might not like your somewhat authoritarian regime (although it's not like you're ruling over anyone but yourself).

Actually, that brings up a good point. Is it oppression if you are ruling over yourself, and your "citizens" all willingly joined?

>>50127142
Or you could just use railguns to destroy the lasers.

>>50133349
Depends on who you ask.

But if you're asking the question, "Is it oppression..?" then expect the autonomists to say "Yes."

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>>50133415
That's actually a good thing though, not in real life, but for a game session. It gives you a good conflict to work out. A quickly growing, but not yet powerful empire, versus a loosely organized but already established faction. Sounds like a lot of fun.

>>50133292
>>50133333
This, diffraction becomes less and less of a problem as the wavelength shrinks. That's why you need X-rays. My damage numbers come from Atomic Rockets.

>>50133349
Alpha Plus is already a hab which really stretches that question.

>>50133333
>Not realizing that x-rays are subject to diffraction from individual atoms

>>50133541
>Building a laser with no mirrors or lenses to overcome diffraction limitations

Diffraction is the only tool you have left at that point. Also the beam coherence will be terrible.

One thing that has got to be understood about attacking habs with strategic weapons is that even something ineffectual in an absolute sense - that is, weapons that aren't going to vaporize whatever's in their path - are still going to be functionally devastating to their targets because most people are sleeved into morphs that are really vulnerable. You don't need an RKKV to wipe out the average hab, you just need to put a big hull breach in it. Fire off a ship-sized railgun salvo at anything but a military fortification and it's going to come apart in lots of little pieces.

True, it won't get everyone, there are going to be informorphs and synths and some lucky biomorphs that survive it, but even losing 30% of your population in a single strike will cripple the ability of that hab to mount prolonged resistance.

>>50133387
At that kind of range, shooting down the slugs is feasible.

>>50133561
>>50133663
Go bug Luke Campbell then, I didn't design the thing.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#id--Laser_Cannon--Non-Bomb-Pumped_Lasers

>>50133791
The reason for an RKKV isn't yield, it's giving less time to react. A near-c projectile only gives milliseconds between detection and impact. The idea is that you can destroy a faction so quickly that they can't effectively respond militarily. The best countermeasure is FTL sensor buoys all over the place and your own strategic weapons for MAD.

That said, I don't think anyone has RKV batteries or super death lasers in the solar system right now. The Fall happened recently enough that most people are likely too leery of WMDs to risk the crazy provocation they cause.

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>>50133415
>>50133541
Okay, so let's say me and my upstart empire does get into a scuffle with the autonomists. What's my best bet for winning the war and getting them to leave me alone? Do I just nuke habitats, or should I send in troops to fight for and occupy them? Should I wait for them to come to me? Do I order special ops raids in autonomist habs? What's my best bet on winning with the kind of force we detailed earlier?

>>50133882
>A near-c projectile only gives milliseconds between detection and impact.
At interstellar distances. Any closer and the target will see the projectile while it accelerates from rest.

>>50114715
I came to the thread late, everything is deleted. Share your folder stranger. Quickly before the purge!

>>50133882
>The reason for an RKKV isn't yield, it's giving less time to react.
It's both, but it's not like a salvo of railgun projectiles is giving whatever PD system your station has much time to react, either. I sincerely doubt that anything short of top-grade military PD systems will be able to even effectively eliminate railgun projectiles.

>>50133940
Well provided you're not dumb enough to initiate the conflict yourself, and it's rather some kind of crusade against perceived injustices in your territory, then your best option is to defend yourself. I doubt you could put together the kind of force necessary to go on the offensive, but you can make it very difficult and dangerous for those few zealots that decide to join the crusade to attack you.

As long as you're not doing something mind-numbingly stupid to set them off, like enslaving people or forcing psychosurgery on unwilling victims, you can try an offensive via memetic warfare. The goal of such an activity would be to either get some sympathetic faction, possibly Extropians, on your side, or else to at least make your enemy less cautious against infiltration by your agents.

If you manage the former, you basically win.

In the case of the latter, you need to work a long con, infiltrating their stations and habs and subtly preparing for a takeover. If you're lucky, or smart, you've got AGIs who can hijack their systems without much trouble once an entry point is secure. Otherwise you'd need to manually sabotage the place, make it unlivable or at least make any further offensives untenable.

>>50133940
Sue for peace. The autonomists are a bunch of peace loving socialist hippies who carry nuclear footballs in their back pockets. Sabate Swarm is pretty hardcore as far as outer system backyard navies go, and there's well armed militias everywhere.

But they aren't really expansionistic, so if you can show that you're not really really nasty (and Alpha Plus still exists, so *really* nasty) you should be able to resolve the conflict without firing any large shots. While that happens, defend yourself as a show of strength.

If that isn't possible, then trying to take habs intact is likely a better option. You don't want this to escalate enough that the TC becomes obligated to get involved, because TCF's pet Exhumans riding in big warships will shit down your everything.

>>50134001
Yeah, that's true, but a gun type system might work. I'm not sure if the kind of matter which can survive that much acceleration exists though.

>>50134089
Depends on the range. at a light second a salvo of railshots at 10 km/s needs 8 hours to arrive. That's a lot of time to react, like even time to evacuate if you can't do anything else. If you have military grade PD, deflection should be pretty easy at that range.

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>>50134050
eh, it was just a bunch of nazi lolis.

fuck it, who cares if I get a warning like the other guy, just not the banhammer pls sempai

>>50133882
>At that kind of range, shooting down the slugs is feasible.
Except your sensors are also diffraction-limited
>Go bug Luke Campbell
Oh, I will

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>>50134173

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>>50134188

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>>50134089
Yeah, I'm definitely talking about a defensive war. I imagine that the Extropians would dissent to the war against me, since as mentioned earlier I would also be providing security services as a legitimate business if possible on Extropia, and all the forked copies of me, while psychosurgically altered, are willing followers.

The goal wouldn't be to take any land or habitats, just cause enough casualties to convince the zealots among them to leave me alone. I wouldn't expect the Titanians or Extropians to try to fight me (unless a vote came up on Titan and they made a really stupid decision).

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>>50134203

>>50134163
>light second
Why would you engage at such extreme range?