Hektor Heresy

>>50122946
While they've been fighting the forces of chaos with an efficient, bitter hatred since the earliest days of the heresy, they weren't formally inducted into The Adepts until 137.M33, thus making them arguably the oldest or the youngest of the brotherhoods.

The sentence structure here is fucked, but my brain is still in numbers mode. Please help.

>>50123003
Maybe break it into two sentences, that should help the flow.

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>>50115952
Tomorrow: Eldar corsairs.

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The following was modeled after catholic religious texts, specifically early translations of the bible from Latin and a few ecclesiastic texts from the catholic church. One of the big themes ronin pushed for the "angel" house of the grey knights was sticking to a hardcore catholic theme, so I'd attempted to mirror their meter and tone as I wrote the fluff for that house.

My question is this: is it too much? I'm trying to keep a strong religious tone, but I can't help but look at it and wonder if I need to tone it back a bit.

>Where go the Ruinous Powers go corruption and sickness, the whim of the moment and the madness of aeons to lead astray the weary and weak. Where go the Angels of Lucifel go dreadful portents of fire and woe, ire to the enemies of man and beacon eternal to the faithful of His flock. These great defenders of mankind want not purity or virtue, seeing the sinfullness of man and excising with haste such impurity from their bodies and minds that they may never be tempted. What temptation can hold the Dark Gods to these most hallowed servants of His Will, they whose wrath struck from their flesh all weakness, they who seek eternally that great purity of the emperor? No sinful ambition can the Changer of Ways offer those whose only want is to serve their Lord. No corrupt respite can the Plaguefather offer the blessed few whose hearts can never know peace while their duty is undone? No glory can the Bloodlord offer such humble souls whose visage of glory is only that of their Father. No temptation of flesh can the Prince of Sin offer those who strip away their desire with lash and holy fire.

>>50123271
I don't see that as being too much of a problem. You can justify it by making it metaphorical writings about their purpose, not a literal description.

Is Arkhan Land still doing his thing in our continuity?

>>50123271
How DARE you steal my ideas after rebuking them!

>>50124002
If you're actually ronin, which I don't really believe you are, you'd know that I told him literally eight times that I was perfectly willing to work with his ideas. And I already wrote them into the codex, so I'm not bothering to go back and change most of them.

>>50124048
>>50124002
If you two are going to start shit again, take it to IRC so you don't mess up the thread.

>>50123271
>Where go the Ruinous Powers go corruption and sickness
>Where go the Angels of Lucifel go dreadful portents of fire and woe
I'm almost certain one (two) of those "go" should be "goes". Like, "Where goes the angel of lucifel go". Honestly though, my english isn't good enough to be certain, something just seems wonky about the tense there.

You also have a lot of weird capitalizations, like His in the second and third line. Unless you're equating the emperor to god, and thus the biblical theme of capitalizing His pronouns, in which case you should capitalize all uses of the word Emperor.

Also, I'm pretty sure "want not purity or virtue" should be "want not for purity or virtue".

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>>50124095
On that note, next OP someone should put in the irc address.

its at
irc.thisisnotatrueending.com
channel: #hektorheresy

>>50124048
There. Now I have a happy little name for you to hyperfocus on, thief. Happy?

Nice House Angels of Lucifel you fucking idiot. Come up with your own ideas.

>>50124254
Okay, now you have a name, that's great, but I'm with this guy >>50124095. I'd rather not argue in-thread. Let's take it to IRC rather than filling the thread with drama.

>>50124254
Hmm. Would you be prepared to hop on to IRC to talk things over? Cal's on at the moment so you'll definitely have someone to get your back.

(And if you don't feel that you have anything more to say to Josman at the moment, would you at least pop on to talk things over with me?)

>>50124254
Not buying it, we've had too many impersonators trying to stir up shit (The guy who keeps pretending to be Arbites comes to mind). This guy doesn't even speak like Ronin.

>>50124319
My thoughts exactly. Hence my assumption that it wasn't him. My keeping his ideas was actually an attempt to make peace with ronin, and given what little I know about his personality, I doubt he'd react so vehemently. Say what you will about him, but ronin doesn't seem the unreasonable prone-to-anger type.

>>50124254
Look, on the off chance that you actually are Ronin, my using your ideas was an attempt to make peace, not start more trouble. If you take a look at my userpage you'll see that I've been restructuring the Codex to make them better fit your view of things, with the Knights as heroes and warriors instead of dry, pragmatic soldiers. Even the prose of the codex was shifted, making them more of a "last light in the darkness" paladin types rather than my older approach.

I'm trying to be accommodating, because it was recently pointed out to me that I was too intense and overzealous on IRC the other day, and I see some truth in that statement.

I said that I wanted to include your ideas many times, and I still intend to.

If that bothers you, I can certainly back off and take my own approach to things. I leave the choice to you.

>>50124459
You want me in the IRC to prove its me? Fine. Lets rumble, bitch

>>50124499
Hey Ronin? Lumey said something that put things into perspective for me. To quote,

>"Because, I mean, I have a mostly finished write-up for the 8th Legion just in case things go awry for Cal, but I'm not going to throw it down and say, "Hey, Cal, I filled in that blank Legion for you! Aren't you happy?!"

Hadn't thought about it like that. So for what it's worth, I'm sorry.

>>50123271
Never has the adjective prosaic seemed so appropriate.

>>50125386
Hey now, let's keep things civil. No need to start calling names.

So today I begin work on the Azure Serpents. Tomorrow, I do one of these with (IG).

>Demigryph riders (IG)
>Traitor dog riders (Chaos regiment)
>Traitor Phantom Roughriders (Chaos warband)
>Deep sea divers (IG)
>Literally Metal Gear (IG)
>Literally VOTOMS (IG)

In the canon, there is a farseer who found where the Culexus Temple was but didn't destroy it because he saw it would somehow lead to his craftworld's destruction. What if there was a farseer who found the temple, but didn't see the same fate and so decided to destroy it anyway? I think I may use that for my corsair fleet's defeat.

>>50129365
So he blows up the Culexus temple and gets dicked by the Officio in response?

>>50129484
Pretty much. Imagine you're an Englishman who blows up an Irish church because their soullessness scares the shit out of you No offense to whoever here is Irish. Suddenly all the soulless gingers are out for your head.

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I don't feel like writing a character for the Eldar, so just have this.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lt9qq3JqgAiyAMYdzJskPTRrQ81uhrbfbbjwb7J_9IQ/edit

If that's not enough, have some Batmetal.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QMnQsX5kP0747hIKsiAmAAuDKCGCcWv-Y9h-699UsJw/edit
Already started work on the Basker Manhunters.

How does this sound, it's just something I tried writing up, should I continue off this, maybe do a story?
http://pastebin.com/XRJMzt4m

>>50131991
Trench Takers seems like a silly name. At least put their homeworld behind it.

>>50122946
>Today's topic: Discuss stuff in the Hektor Heresy that isn't space marines

Very well. The Motsky'ar of Khaine accidentally the Harakien Empire, and tosses Ku'Motsk into the warp, and then Isha's body, Cegorach, and Khaine bust into the Warp to break Isha's astral form out of Nurgle's Garden and rescue Eldrad and Ku'Motsk, right?

But I feel like we need another "Ancient" hero. Eldrad exemplifies the Magical elements of the Eldar and Ku'Motsk is the king of Fightan, but I feel we need a "Sneaky" Ancient Eldar, since there are a LOT of sneaky archetypes amongst the Eldar.

>>50133205
Some kind of legendary ranger?

>>50133205
If Eldrad embodies the Magical elements of the Eldar then they are screwed beyond belief.

But anyway; wouldn't a legendary ranger just be Illic?

Sigma.
Had a thought of names for the Zealots.

Chapters [1000 strong] Are refered to as Orders, with a Meister at its helm.

Companies are 100 Strong.

Thinking of some fluff for the 3rd Order.
"The Order of Immortals"
This is ripped from the Immortals of persian fame, however the Order itself unofficially names itself "The Terminal."
Think Black Rage in this regard.

Essentially, the Primarch managed to assist with a majority of the problems with the gene-seed in regards to the legions cancer, but nothing is ever a total fix.

The 3rd Order was originally wiped out, originally a dump for ailing marines.
During an initial campaign, Aubrey had ended-up amongst the ranks of the third, men who had nothing to live for and begged the Primarch to allow their inclusion in the Legion.

The entire company died on the battleground, all one thousand, but in their sacrifice the campaign was won.

Aubrey immortalised these men, every piece of gear and armour salvaged, their faces immortalized upon engraved helms.

To be inducted into the third was a merciful death sentence.
Your name would be stripped away, already pronounced KIA, given the name of the brother who had originally worn the boots they were stepping into.

But with those distractions swept away, allowed a more focused warrior, what small fears an astartes possessed of death striped from his very core, attaining a Berzerker zen.

If that even makes sense.

This method of recruitment is secret even amongst the legion.

Needless to say, the third is as famous the first and second.

>>50134105
Yeah, bur he's not super ancient like Eldrad or Ku'Motsk, right?

>>50134645
The idea of having different names for stuff sounds good, will add flavour to the legion.

On the 3rd Order being cancerous dead guys I'm a little more torn. It is possible that even after Aubrey's tinkering and meddling that some guys would not be the same, though I doubt it would be to the extent that they had to beg to get it.

The heroic sacrifice and immortalisation of them does seem like something that could be done and gives them something to do while crusadin', which is great.

I would imagine that after they fall to chaos, the 3rd order pretty much becomes a chapter of Lucius's, the same person's soul inhabiting the armour even after death.

But yeah, this is stuff is all going into the fluff.

>>50135877
>>50134645
NO SPACE MARINE TALK

>>50135948
K

>>50135948
>threads more quiet than usual when about xenos
>there aren't any xenos yet... but come in and write them anon!
>everyone leaves and post count drops to 10% of the last

This is fun, I see why you've been doing this for so long.

I've been busy the past couple weeks, have I missed much?

>>50136494
Can't force people to write, anon. If they don't want to write xenos, then no xenos will be written.

Also it's Sunday evening, most people are getting ready for work, not writing xenos.

>>50136671
That wasn't my complaint. It was that no-one is particularly interested in xenos here.

>>50136738
I don't see why you would complain about other people sharing your views.

Which God feeds on Fear?

No, think before you answer.

Is it Khorne, who feeds upon the rage of man, and the eternal war that lights the void? Is it Tzeentch that preys upon the distant hopes and twisting schemes of humanity? Is it Slaanesh that thirsts for the lust and love of others? Is it Nurgle that gluts upon the despair and hopelessness of man, the grand stagnation of the universe fattening him?

The Four cause plenty of fear, but which of the Ruinous Powers actually sates their crooked desires on such a potent emotion?

>>50137638
Would you listen to shadows that cradled you in the corner if desperation, to the chittering of the carrion crows that fed upon dried and cracked flesh, you would know the answer.

The Lord of Fear, Thamoraz. Thamoraz, also known as Phokolus, is a wicked creature, skulking in the depths of the Warp like a shriveled abyssal shark. He is the God of necessity and desperation, savage, base actions driven by nothing more than the most potent motivator of all; fear. He stalks his realm in the form of a giant emaciated wolf-like rat, with a mane of slick tendrils and shrouded by smoke, disguising his pitiful form, save his terrible eyes. His haunting eyes are one of the few lights in his realm of shadow and ruin, a shifting, mirrored plane of a hundred worlds wracked by fear all plunged in the most pure darkness and flooded with the fears of humanity, where his daemons hunt and cower from eachother, instilling and feeling terror.

>>50137638
>>50137860
I don't really have a problem with making a minor god, but I feel like fear is something that a major god would be in charge of.

I'm fairly certain that Fear falls under Nurgle

>>50137860
The Greater Deamons of Thamoraz are Whisperers in the Night, huge spindly abominations that can slowly transform into musclebound beasts if fed enough fear.

His lesser Daemons are Nightstalkers, six legged Hounds that can use shadows to traverse the material plane, and Blackhaunts, creatures that represent the common fears of man. Also amongst their number are boggarts, swarming monstrosities that plague the minds of the weakwilled and Feldrayks, winged steeds that fill the black sky of Thamoraz's realm

Such is the number of these Daemons that the God's own power is starved, forcing Thamoraz to hunt his legions of daemons for sustenance, taking back in his own essence momentarily before shedding it again everytime a human overcomes their own fear.

>>50137877
It's not.

>>50137996
Fear of death and disease.

OK. Something less controversial.

I was thinking about Craft Worlds and Aspects, and there's what looks like a missing niche in the GW material. It's sort of what FASA came up with for Clan Blood Spirit in Battletech (which may or may not help): an aspect of Khaine that embodies esprit de corps. Now, I think that could be modeled with an Aspect Warrior Elite Choice that is a group of characters to attach to squads (probably Guardian Squads, but more rules-minded people might be able to make it work more broadly).

Now, for a Craft World to play home to the original shrine of this aspect, I thought that it could be a kind of mirror to the Black Library. The BL is the home of the Black Council and the way that the Farseers coordinate their rulership of the Eldar Race. This Craftworld could be more about the Exarchs coordinating their duties as the Warriors of the Eldar. (I don't know if they need a "Red Council", but that was the shorthand in my notes!) It might even be where Asurmen teaches the Asurya, or perhaps its the origin point of the Autarchs.

Does the idea have legs?

>>50139305
Looks like it could have legs, maybe for the members of the Aspect, rules wise anyway, they are an upgrade for Warlocks with more emphasis on Buffs and Debuffs?

>>50139462
>maybe for the members of the Aspect, rules wise anyway, they are an upgrade for Warlocks with more emphasis on Buffs and Debuffs?
In that neighbourhood, but I think that Guardians with an option of these guys instead of Warlocks would be the Craftworld (I'm leaning towards Craftworld Melos) specific choice. Other Craftworlds would just buy them a bit like Apothecaries. Or maybe flip that and their home Craftworld can buy Exarchs from the Shrine as Elite heroes.

Josman will probably have some good suggestions on this stuff.

>>50137638
>Which God feeds on Fear?
Nurgle. The answer to that is straight up Nurgle, It's straight up outright said, he feeds off the fear of death. Says that on his 40k wiki page, his 1d4chan page, his WHFB wiki page, and lexicanum .

The answer is Nurgle.

>>50139305
>missing niche in the GW material
I'm assuming you mean from a lore standpoint, in which case you may be correct. From a gameplay standpoint, I would largely disagree.

The idea certainly is an interesting one, but it's inclusion in a codex would be largely redundant, as warlocks are already the uncontested masters of efficient squad-level buffing, and the only squads general enough to warrant needing more versatility through attached characters would be Dire Avengers and the Seer Council and the like, both of whom have options to do that within their squad already.

Otherwise, they would just be further buff characters for their squads, which the eldar do not need.

>>50140892
OK. Well, it seems that the notion of Aspect Warriors who take on the role of Khaine as the elan and camaraderie of the Eldar army is fluff-workable. Perhaps you have some ideas about another way to model that in the crunch?

>>50137860
>>50138246
I think this is pretty cool and even if it's a bit difficult to get it around the complaining it seems worth the price of admission.

So, one option to deflect complaints that Thamoraz/Phokolus can't be fear because Nurgle or that he should be a Major God by using an unreliable (or uncertain) narrator. I did something like that with Krenz and went full-throttle with Maria Vespa, adding a section to her page on various theories about her true nature. In the case of Thamoraz, you could have Inquisitors speculating that he's merely an aspect of Nurgle, some weird cultist babbling that he's actually the supreme Chaos power, a rival Inquisitorial theory that Thamoraz is a minor god, the predictable speculation that he's actually one of the C'tan and people are just getting Really Confused, a view that he's actually a powerful Daemon with some freedom of action (how that's not a minor god is a matter of perspective) and an ultra-prosaic theory that he doesn't actually exist because the only hard evidence is the scribbling of crazy Chaos cultists.

>>50140945
TL;DR The Eldar codex has it's bases covered. Adding more without removing something else risks either redundancy or power creep.

Long version:

My point was not to say that they would not fit well, I suspect they would though I'd have to read their rules or write something up to be sure. My point was that it would be redundant. Eldar, with their warlocks and seers, have some of the best buffing platforms in the game, rivaled only perhaps by Chaos Daemons or specific formations. Considering how effective their current models for such a role are, any new models you added would either have to be overpowered for their points cost, or they'd fade into the background in lieu of more efficient models.

A good example of this would be Space Marine Centurions. Imagine you're trying to add a new heavy infantry to Space Marines. They have their bases covered, from "light" heavy infantry in the form of scouts, all the way up to Terminators. You decide to add a heavier infantry unit. This new unit is powerful, certainly, but is expensive and has numerous drawbacks, to the point where only in certain highly specific situations are they more cost efficient than other options (grav centurions in a drop-pod for example).

>>50141176
I wasn't asking for more explanation. I was asking for a constructive suggestion.

>>50141255
My opinion is that it's largely pointless to make such a unit given the current Eldar Codex, and even were I want to, I can hardly provide a ruleset when I have little to no lore to work off of.

What they'd play like on the tabletop would largely depend on how they're arranged within their squads when working alone. Is it a unit of specialists, or an elite unit of generalists, or an elite unit of generalists who have upgrade options that allow them to specialize? Note that the third option would be outside the spirit of the Eldar codices and lore.

>>50135750
Does the age matter a lot? I mean Eldar don't really get that much stronger with age, Eldrad's not much better than your average Farseer.

If age is the problem just make Illic older, a prodigy or say that instead of Illic its Arkael Tanne'neth and he's a really old Ranger who's good at shooting. Honestly with Eldar special characters it doesn't matter much.

>>50141329
>My opinion is that it's largely pointless to make such a unit given the current Eldar Codex
Rather, I should say that it's best not to approach the creation of such a unit from the crunch side of things. As they have their bases covered in the codex, it would be best to let the fluff dictate the crunch in this situation.

>>50141329
Josman, given that we've just had some issues with the way you were trying to collaborate with Ronin, I'm going to take this opportunity to elaborate on process. In my mind, it's more important to help you see where the miscommunication lies than to solve this Eldar issue, so let's just shelve my idea for now.

I know you like numbers, so let me try explaining it in a math-like way. Think of our creative target as an unknown and unmeasurable number. We know it's out there and want to get as close to the actual solution as we can. I'm putting out a Fluff limit. Think of that as a lower boundary for the result. I've started conservative (vague), because if I open too high I might overshoot the target. I'm asking you to help by adding a Mechanical limit, which in this analogy is the upper boundary. In the same way that I started conservative (vague), you don't need a finished solution to be helpful.

Does that help you to understand what I'm asking for?

>>50141470
I understand what you're asking, but as I said, I'm missing variables here. I need to understand the composition of the squad as mentioned here >>50141329

>Is it a unit of specialists, or an elite unit of generalists, or an elite unit of generalists who have upgrade options that allow them to specialize?

The answer to that question will dicate the answer to your question, as each will have its own context for creation. Rather than give you all three and tell you to pick one, I figured I'd reverse that and tell you to pick one and then I'd give you one of the three.

>>50141549
OK. Don't worry about it, I'll do some research and work something up.

>>50140840
It's not. And Lexicanium says Fear of Death and Dying. That's very specific.

>1d4chan
A reliable source, to be sure.
>40kwiki
Another great source
>WHFB Wiki
This isn't fantasy
>Lexicanium
Aaaaand that's not what it says. Good job twisting facts, however. You'd make a great politician.

>>50141076
That's fine, sure. My backup plan for him if people went full retard with their interpretation of Nurgle's aspects is to have him be a parasite of sorts, leaching off that particular domain.

>>50141373
Fair enough. So Illic accidentally makes a right turn instead of a left in the Webway and falls into the warp?

>>50142181
While I am cool with adding yet another chaos god (bringing the total up to 8) this would create a bit of bind when it comes to Chaos Space Marines as we'd need a Thamoraz legion if he was to be a "born" chaos god on par with the extant four if we're going to be consistent. If he's "unborn", not that that stops the god from existing of course, then it'd make sense to bypass that though it'd be very easy to just make Merrill fall to Thamoraz with out changing much of anything.

>>50142256
He's a minor god, a major warp entity, but not as powerful as the Four.

And I would still say seven, since having a Tyranid god is possibly the dumbest thing ever written

>>50142390
I do not want a tyranid god and anyone who wants the Ashen Mother as the nids is boring.

>>50142441
Yeah, the Ashen Mother is obviously Krenz.

>>50142491
I should clearly make up some xenos to compete.

>>50142568
Well, I have Komra to your Vetrovnak. I think the only difference is that you haven't detailed your subfactions?

>>50142587
I meant for the Ashen Mother is obviously X bit since I do have a small pile of alien ideas floating about in my head.

>>50142441
Thank you! Finally a sane person.


So does Thamoraz pass?

>>50142654
Does in my book. Obviously I'll need to tweak the Praise to Chaos bit to add Thamoraz in.

>>50142668
You could make it an enraged reply by an acolyte of Thamoraz.

HA! Here's an idea!

So GW is incompetent and awful, especially when it comes to lore (if they didn't suck we wouldn't be doing this), but one of their biggest fuck ups is dropping the nuance of the Chaos Gods. Tzeentch is still pretty nuanced, what with the hope thing and all, but Khorne is the worst offender. He USED to be a god that encouraged honorable combat, and honor amongst warriors. Now he's the god turbo retard team killing murderhobos, which sucks because that's encroaching more on Khaine's sphere of influence as a god of straight up murder and underhanded bloodshed.

But what if there's metaphysical mechanics behind that? Like the Big Four are becomimg more and more streamlined that by (this is a hypothetical) 50k they would simply be Gods of a single raw, emotion, with minor gods of war, magic, sex, plague, etc picking up the slack or forming from the shed aspects of the Four.

Like for example we have a Chaos God of Honour, which Khornate warriors leave offerings to so their battle buddies don't stab them in the fucking back, and the whole team makes it through the battle. Or a Chaos God of Art, a minor Slaanesh-like god.

We could possibly expand upon this further and have minor Pantheons under each God, like Thamoraz would fall under a Nurglite pantheon. We could even go the extra mile during End Times and do it like the Eldar, where a galaxy-wide psychic awakening creates new minor gods

>>50142211
Or a Daemon or Chaos Space Marine chucks him in the Warp. Or he is forced to flee into the Warp cause he's on some Planet Orks and Humans are attacking and the Eldar all get killed and he's got no way else out so he takes a crazy risk.

Any of those work, makes it a bit more 'action-packed' but we get what we want at the end of the day, he's a good Eldar Ranger.

>>50143261
I have always held the view that the gods of chaos should not be viewed as individuals but as corporations with dozens of subsidiaries branching off. Which is pretty much what you're aiming for there.

>>50143278
Sounds good!

>>50143278
I'm just wondering, since all original Primarchs and such were made, and the Void King being original, shouldn't we not use Eldrad and Illic (or any existing 40k character) and just make original ones?

Or what exactly is the policy concerning original characters to modifying existing characters?

>>50144021
There's some debate about it. Some people don't want to change anything about the setting pre-Birth of Slaanesh in M31 because they don't want the setting to be too different from 40k. But we've already done that a little, and some people do just want to make their own characters.

>>50144162
Okay but that makes it a bit difficult. So you're saying that there isn't really a consensus?

Cause it changes a lot whether I think of this in terms of 'how could things have gone differently' to 'what can I create with a spiritual inheritance to the setting but unqiue'

All new Primarchs would make me think, personally, that we'd do new Phoenix Lords, Eldar and Orks and such but...on the other hand if everyone's still okay with keeping the non-Astartes the same then I guess it does make the work easier since we can just keep Ghazghkull, Nazdreg, Eldrad and Illic and such.

Look at me taking all that space to say I'm unsure how to proceed then.

>>50144398
I believe the current stance on Orks is that it's all new. Eldar is probably almost all new, though we would probably just add new Phoenix lord rather than replacing them because of how essential they are to the aspect warriors.

So, I would say that you can do pretty much whatever you want with Eldar characters. My vote is for people exist until someone says they don't.

>>50144422
Oh, I thought since all new legions got made the Aspects were also going to get retooled.

You know I think I'll just look at Orks or Astartes since it seems there's a consensus on what's going on there, Eldar seem a bit half-and-half to me and I'm not sure what to do with that.

Thanks for clarifying though.

>>50143261
My next Chaos warband on the ninth will be Khornates that fit the bill of warrior honor. Don't kill them if they surrender, respect your peers, accept a challenge, etc.

They will also have a Hektor Heresy-grade waifu.

>>50143261
>>50143282
This could be interesting, but I think there should be a cause for this "shedding" of aspects. Like something the Emperor did or something

>>50142587
>Komra
>KomrarmoK

>>50144460
I think there will be some aspect tweaking to give people space to play around

Ideas I have.

>>Eldar
>Some new Aspects.
I say we just add some and keep the ones we really like.
>New Pheonix lords
This goes without saying if we're going to have new/different aspects
>Eldrad and Illic
If they're older than the birth of Slaanesh? They stay as is. Younger? Anything goes.

>>Chaos
>Minor Gods
Awww yiss. Especially if they have needlessly esoteric aspects.
>How they came to be
I'd blame the Emperor. He hits the chaos and parts of them shake loose. Bam, instant gods.

>>50146384
Pretty sure both Eldrad and Illic are younger than the Birth of Slaanesh.

Personally I'm very 'meh' about the Emperor actually affecting a change on the Chaos Gods, seems like making him way OP to say he can alter the fundamental nature of the Chaos Gods themselves. I mean Khaine, Slaanesh and Khorne had a brawl and there was no creation of additional aspects so saying the Emperor can do it to all four Chaos Gods just seems too much.

>>50144021
Since the Phoenix Lords are defs being kept, it seems you can keep Illic and Eldrad, don't know why though since both are pretty pathetic lore-wise, so new chars might be better

So would it make sense for some of the traitors to employ Ork Mercenaries to bolster their own numbers?

It would be a nice way to reflect on of the differences between the Loyalists and Traitors that doesn't get focused on normally. The Traitors don't need to stick to the same 'kill all xenos' dogma of the Empire and so using Alien mercernaries would be an advantage they could use.

Would this make sense? For some of the Traitors?

Also would they, turning to Chaos as they are, maybe get help from alien races already serving Chaos? Like make the Sslyth a full faction who were allies of the Traitors?

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>>50146589
I don't see why not.

>Like make the Sslyth a full faction who were allies of the Traitors?
I know fuck-all about those guys. Aren't they a Dark Eldar unit or something?

>>50146633
They're mercernaries who are often employed by the Dark Eldar, supposedly they're a Slaanesh worshipping Race, I just used them cause they were an easy canon example.

>>50146589
With the Crimson Eagles I was going to have the splinter forces make extensive use of xenos auxiliaries, and I plan to do the same with the Dreameaters as Zan was always a little apprehensive when it came to the whole Genocide thing.

>>50146659
Wait are they really? That's fucking awesome.

>>50146713
Yeah, and with base S/T 5 W 2 and A 3 they'd actually be pretty cool as an army I think.

In fact now that I've said it I'm definitly going to try to turn them into an Chaos-Allied Alien Faction then.

>>50146694
That sounds really cool, do you have an idea which races they'll make use of yet?

I must admit that, as a history student, something I automatically want to do is something which reflects the way historical events concatenate to lead to results no-one saw coming.

So the idea I had is you take an Ork hegemon and you say it’s under attack by Great Crusade era forces and on the back foot when, all of a sudden, the Heresy breaks out. The pressure on the Orks gets reduced as a result of many of the Astarte falling back to fight in the Heresy, the Orks then surge forward and overwhelm the Imperial Army elements left behind. The Orks then end up contacted by some Traitors who give them some equipment too make them more of nuisance cause they want the Orks to tie up some group of Loyalists.

However, the funny thing is, that though the Traitors never intended it this Warband is still around in 40k, having grown into a large Orkish Empire, and probably no-one actually remembers or realizes that it was because of small events like that that this Empire got born. Like History.

Now I’m just sowing plot seeds in the wind here so just tell me if it’s unacceptable or whatever. But it does make sense to me that with the Imperium turning completely inwards during the Heresy that you'd probably see a lot of Ork attacks and Orks carving up parts of the Imperium, like usually happens to an Empire when it falls into a civil war all its neighbours take advantage and such.

>>50146659
Sslyth Daemon Princes? Always wanted to see Xenos Daemon Princes.

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>>50147027
I'm scared. Not for the future of this fanfic, but for the future of the Imperium within this fanfic.

>>50147027
Wait, you mean Fulgrim?

>>50147027
You know, there's no reason we can't do this.

In fact, I just entered this thread with the intention of talking about notable Hektorverse daemon princes.

>>50147079
Come on now, don't overreact, its just a Daemon Prince, they're not Primarchs or anything so nothing to worry about. Just shoot a Vulkan-equivalent at them and he'll take on a whole planet of Sslyth alone, just ask the Orks.

>>50147110
Cool. I'm gonna have to give some thought to how I'd want to do the Sslyth though. But I'd imagine that, being an explicitly Chaos Worshipping faction, that they'd have access to Daemon Princes like Chaos Space Marines.

Maybe the ultimate rulers of the Sslyth are a Cabal of immortal Daemon Princes/esses?

>>50147110
On that note do we still intend to keep Belakor then or is he one of the things that will change?

If we do keep him we should probably make him more important since in actual 40k he literally barely exists.

>>50146750
Well the Dreameaters are going to live in fuckoffhueg space hulk city, and will basically allow anyone to live, work, and play there as long as their willing to pull their weight when the time comes to go to war. Which they pretty much wage for shits and giggles/dosh. So while they may be pretty great as their own army, I want to be able to sandwich them into most armies.

>>50146773
With the Crimson Eagles it was going to be Tau and that's it, mostly because I was going to crib ideas from Metal Gear. Now that I have a much more "open minded" legion I can be a little more inclusive when it comes to auxiliaries.

The Dreameaters are all about Cloak and Dagger, using showy tactics and insane displays to conceal their true objective/movements. This leads to two kinds of necessary forces (baring support); The Cloak, meat shields and Distraction Carnifexes, the Dagger, sneaky dudes that can asist in operations or pursue others to ruse the enemy further. Because of this Ork mercs tend to be a fav, since they are more than willing to feed themselves into a meat grinder fight, as long as it looks worthwhile, and they have Kommandos that can prove useful in infiltration. Kroot are another good one, since you only really need to pay them in meat and guns, and if the Dreameaters can lace their smokes and fogs with addictive substances that get the Kroot hooked when they eat the meat, then they have a dedicated Junkie workforce. Dark Eldar and Corsairs are uncommon, due to the Legion being allaigned with Chaos (on paper), but the Spire of Morphaeus is a big place in a big galaxy.

Other than that I'd love to get some recommendations for races to fit in there, be they canon or OC

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Huh. While writing today's IG regiment I also made a Slaaneshi warband. It's nice how I can create so much content in a month.

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>>50147265
This is Zorg.

>>50142181
Well fine if you're going to be like that, try

Codex: Chaos Daemons 6(7)th Ed, page 14.

>>50146869
Sounds fine, but you'll need to fill in more detail since that's really rough.

I think reflecting that the borders of the Imperium would have been assailed during the Heresy is something important to remember for the AU though, since the OU didn't dwell on it at all.

>>50143261
>if they didn't suck we wouldn't be doing this
Heh. Right.

>Chaos gods need their nuance back.
YES

>>50147241
I'll give it some thought, I think mostly we'll have to deal with OC races since 40k sadly doesn't really do much alien races other than the ones who are already factions like Eldar and Orks.

I'll let you know if I come up with something though.

>>50147275
Nice.

>>50146869
While that sounds awesome, and I fully support it, it needs reasoning as to why it happened this way as opposed to how things worked out in the OU

>>50147348
By 'why it happened' do you mean why the Orks attack the Imperium during the Heresy?

I assume just because I think they overlooked doing it in the OU and then in the AU we'd actually include that reality since it seems logical.

But if you mean something else could you just explain cause I think I misunderstood.

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QMnQsX5kP0747hIKsiAmAAuDKCGCcWv-Y9h-699UsJw/edit
Behold, the Basker Manhunters! Also, Lord Sherwood of the Poachers Slaaneshi warband!

Tomorrow, I expand on the lore of the Morkai which I have neglected thus far!

>>50147411
No, just why this Mighty Ork Empire arose when it didn't in the OU. Just writing it with that mindset, laying out history unfolded and how the Imperium has to deal with this organized Ork force

>>50147878
Oh, I imagined that I'd replace one of the existing OU Ork hegemons, Octarius perhaps, by instead utilizing this one. Also, to be clear, I just mean an Ork faction on par with Charadon and such. I think you might have gotten the wrong idea about how large I was implying it would be.

But if you mean I just need to craft more detail around it that I understand.

>>50147910
Ah, yeah there was some confusion as to scale

>>50122946
We know that in the OU, orks can be favored by the chaos gods,so does that mean there can be an ork daemon prince?

Looks to be some good earnest fun-having here. A few points:

>Eldar characters
With the Birth of Slaanesh happening differently, there's license to remove OU characters who don't really work. The only Eldar that I think we have to keep is Asurmen, because that name is pretty clearly a title and the job of founding the Phoenix Lords needs to be done. With the other Aspects, there's no need to decide whether the OU ones are gone or just minor, and whether the AU ones are new or just more prominent here. This is a good thing, because it means that when the pedants turn up they'll be more easily turned away.

>Moar Chaos gods
Sure, but I recommend presenting any theories about what they are and why they're turning up using an in-universe narrator. (See >>50141076 for more explanation.)

>Xenos auxiliaries
This is very strongly associated with the Eternal Zealots, as the question of Xenocide is key to their story. I think pushing another Traitor Legion as really keen on Xenos auxilia makes both of them less special, but having unique or re-imagined Xenos who serve the Ruinous Powers definitely works.

>>50146869
I think the general idea of contingency is a good one and the assumption that the Imperium has to write off huge amounts of territory is correct in the OU and AU. (At the peak of the Great Crusade, the Imperium has 2 million worlds. By M41, it's 1 million worlds and has always been 1 million worlds.) I'm not so keen on an Ork Empire lasting for thousands of years, maybe because it doesn't strike me as all that Orky? Aren't the Orks anarchic and more about fights than realm-building? Could just be me but stability and Orks doesn't feel right.

>>50149609
>I think the general idea of contingency is a good one and the assumption that the Imperium has to write off huge amounts of territory is correct in the OU and AU. (At the peak of the Great Crusade, the Imperium has 2 million worlds. By M41, it's 1 million worlds and has always been 1 million worlds.) I'm not so keen on an Ork Empire lasting for thousands of years, maybe because it doesn't strike me as all that Orky? Aren't the Orks anarchic and more about fights than realm-building? Could just be me but stability and Orks doesn't feel right.
The Ork Empire of Charadon has lasted for at least centuries.

It's not so much stable as it is an understanding of who is the biggest.

>>50149609
But what if the Space Marines are the auxiliaries? Supplicants to a Xenos-led Chaos faith.

>>50149835
Alright but it seemed like the proposal was for an Ork Empire to last from the Heresy until the End Times. That seems pretty stable to me.

>>50149903
Maybe? Contributors with more of a stake in Chaos might give you a more definite answer.

>>50146694
>>50147241

Xenos Auxiliaries.

Reminds me of something.

>>50150060
>Alright but it seemed like the proposal was for an Ork Empire to last from the Heresy until the End Times. That seems pretty stable to me.
An entire area of space full of violence is not stable.

>>50150245
Semantic hair-splitting isn't very helpful.

>>50150286
It's true though. The only difference between an ork empire and a sector that happens to have an abundance of orks is whether they can agree with any certainty who they're not supposed to fight, IE the empire's overlord.

Other than that, it's business as usual for orks.

>>50150286
>>50150336
Oh, and the ability to hold that space from other races.

>>50150336
Right. So you're saying that an Ork overlord reigning for ten thousand years isn't a kind of stability. At that point, we might as well retire the word "stable"!

>>50150412
So you're saying an empire constantly fighting within itself is stable?

And it's not the same overlord necessarily. Could be a line of overlords each killing the last, or they claim the title whenever the last overlord gets killed and beats anybody who disagrees.

>>50150531
>a repeated pattern of succession in the same region of space for ten thousand years isn't stability
You must think that we're living in complete anarchy right now.

>>50147331
I'd appreciate it!

>>50150564
>You must think that we're living in complete anarchy right now.
Tell me, did you have to punch the other applicants in the face to get your job? Assuming you're not a boxer, of course.

If you consider an ultraviolent collection of tribal warriors whose entire society is built around war, asserting dominance, and hating everybody else, where the only distinction between statehood and anarchy is if there's one particularly large guy that everybody knows not to mess with, in any way stable, then I'm pretty sure you're an anarchist. Or maybe a monarchist. An anarcho-monarchist?

Even within an ork empire there's internal strife. Warbands and tribes constantly form and break apart as they clash, nobz constantly challenge the overlord, there probably isn't even a tax system Although I would believe it if there were "takkers" who collected tax by punching boyz in the face and taking their teef.

A historical counterexample for you would probably be Sengoku Jidai-era Japan. Both the Imperial and the Shogun's lines of succession were unbroken, even though there was a hundred-year conflict between clans raging.

>>50150771
>A historical counterexample for you would probably be Sengoku Jidai-era Japan
Or, for that matter, later centuries in the Roman Empire - sorry, the Roman Anarchy. Obviously scholars have been getting wrong for years. Glad we have you around to explain the truth of the matter!

But ultimately, no matter how much of a pedantic timewasting faggot you are, this is beside the point. An Ork domain established by accident isn't an issue. What's at stake is the suggestion in >>50146869 that a warband aided by Traitors in the Heresy grows into an Empire by the End Times (i.e. they still run the show ten thousand years later) and whether that is Orky or not.

I'm saying that it is not particularly Orky because I would have thought the original boyz would get killed in a fight, choke on a particularly gristly squig, get blown up, or otherwise die leading to a good bit of anarchy as usual interspersed with the occasional WAAAGH!

>>50150880
>Or, for that matter, later centuries in the Roman Empire - sorry, the Roman Anarchy. Obviously scholars have been getting wrong for years. Glad we have you around to explain the truth of the matter!
I'm beginning to suspect you're a historian IRL who's getting butthurt over this.

>But ultimately, no matter how much of a pedantic timewasting faggot you are,
I take offense to that.
> this is beside the point. An Ork domain established by accident isn't an issue. What's at stake is the suggestion in >>50146869 that a warband aided by Traitors in the Heresy grows into an Empire by the End Times (i.e. they still run the show ten thousand years later) and whether that is Orky or not.
Getting help is unorky to the max. Instant succession war.

>I'm saying that it is not particularly Orky because I would have thought the original boyz would get killed in a fight, choke on a particularly gristly squig, get blown up, or otherwise die leading to a good bit of anarchy as usual interspersed with the occasional WAAAGH!
As I've stated before, an ork empire is still full of anarchy. It's just there's this one ork you gotta listen to.

>>50150880
>a pedantic timewasting faggot you are
I'd like to add that this is just you being butthurt. I mean, who's time am I wasting?

>>50150958
>it's anarchy but someone is in charge

>>50149609
>>Xenos auxiliaries
Xenos are just a part of the legion. Dreameaters don't care who you are, or what you pray to, only that you work hard and party harder. Chaos Xenos would be in their greatest numbers amongst the Dreameaters outside their respective kingdoms, however. The EZ and the DE would get along, but they aren't too similar.

>>50151024
Well it's not like they stop fighting each other just because somebody's in charge.

>>50151051
I seem to recall you thinking that the Crimson Eagles and Iron Rangers weren't too similar, but good luck!

>>50150771
You're thinking like a stoopid 'umie. Not an Ork. Ruthless anarchy in the eyes of a Human could be relative govermental stability in the eyes of an Ork, baring Beast shenanigans.

>>50151089
I mean, yeah, by ork standards it's stable. But I figure Froggy is talking about our kind of stability.

>>50150880
>seems to hate everybody here
>is a colossal gaping wound of an asshole
>still here
Why don't you just leave?

The project is falling to bits anyway from all the drama and autism

>>50151085
No they were disgustingly similar. Having a diverse legion doesnt equate to them being the exact same. And watch your fuckin' tone Lumey, just because Zorg is being Zorg and you're frustrated doesn't give you the right to be a little shithead.

>>50151141
holy fucking kek anon, you haven't been here long have you?

>>50151133
>The project is falling to bits
You've been saying that since 2014. The only difference is that now it's wishful thinking.

>>50151141
I'm not saying they're exactly the same, but I do worry that you're falling into the same trap again. Snek was around pretty recently (>>50150189) so you could take the opportunity talk to him about ways to make both Legions special while preserving what you want to do.

Snek, get in the fuckin IRC

>>50151251
It is falling apart, whether you realise it or not.
And the only wishful thinking is that you might finally just leave.
But sadly you are a self-absorbed faggot who believes his actions and comments are necessary and helpful to the project.

>>50151394
K.
Moving on.

>>50151391
Never.

>>50151141
I am here.

>>50139305
OK, I have a stub for the Aspect Warriors now.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Endless_Fangs

>>50151133
Legit using autism as an insult

I expected more of you Uriel, so disappointing.

Then again, can't expect much of southerners.

>>50151663
>Then again, can't expect much of southerners.
>Is a southerner
HEY! Them's fightin' words yankee!

>>50152666
More than one country has a south.

>>50152710
Then there can be only one.

>Assembles sword

>>50152731
Don't make me break out the song.

>>50151663
>Legit using autism as an insult
Well I mean if we're being technical about it, there is some autism in the project.

>>50152710
Sounds like something a fucking yank would say.

>>50152911
>Trying to dodge the point.
How typical of you.

>>50152972
Dude, I just got here, I don't know anything about any points, I'm just mocking shit.

>>50152998
My apologies, Uriel hanging around in anon is annoying me.

And he tends to say yank anyway.

>>50152998
OK, how about mocking my dumb idea for Aspect Warriors in Wave Serpents?

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Endless_Fangs

>>50153036
Are these guys more mechanized infantry, or specialized pilots? The article is kind of unclear.

>>50153119
It says that they're pilots. The only mention of deploying mechanised infantry is with other Aspects.

>Xenos Daemon Princes

>a Khornate Ork Prince, who creates ramshackle brass death machines in in grand factories for his army of bloodletters, as he charges forth into battle with his daemonic power klaw

>a Tzeentch Jokearo Prince, who has orphed during apotheosis into a form more similar to a Pink Horror; although retaining it's long and muscular arms. It creates incredible and enigmatic machines and arcanery in seconds, weaving together powerful magic to create fell devices

>a Nurglite Hrud Prince with its entropic field boosted to insane levels, rusting and eroding metal and stone and turning flesh necrotic and black in seconds

>a Slaaneshi Eldar Prince who takes a perverse pleasure in consuming the souls of it's fellows just as She Who Thirsts would; taking a grim satisfaction in watching the Eldar it once called its brothers and sisters panic just from the mention of it and it's patron

>>50153250
From a fluff standpoint it's fine then.

>>50153257
>a Slaaneshi Eldar Prince who takes a perverse pleasure in consuming the souls of it's fellows just as She Who Thirsts would; taking a grim satisfaction in watching the Eldar it once called its brothers and sisters panic just from the mention of it and it's patron
Pretty sure that's not a possibility.

>>50153306
I find this mockery unsatisfying.

>>50153341
No reason it can't be; after all, we are in charge of canon.

>>50153410
You'll live.

O mighty Lord of Decay, Grandfather Nurgle
Who succors our souls and salves our despair
Who shepherds us all from his garden of mirth
Whose hand stays death and welcomes us all
Remember your due, O Plague Lord

The terror of death that shows them your path
The horror of blight that begs your caress
With no reaper's due your garden'd run bare
Without great Thamoraz none would come begging for you
So remember your due, he asks only fear

O mighty changer of ways, Sorcerous Tzeentch
Who evolves our souls and leads us to hope
Who weaves our fates from his labyrinth of crystal
Whose gifts grant sight and beckons us forward
Remember your due, O Architect of Fate

The terror of ignorance that shows them your path
The horror of stagnation that begs your release
With no looming doom there'd be no drive to evolve
Without great Thamoraz none would come begging for you
So remember your due, he asks only fear

O mighty Blood God, Raging Khorne
Who challenges our souls and leads us to red-ardor
Who stokes our wrath from his throne of skulls
Whose resolve bolsters our flesh and drives us on
Remember your due, O Taker of Skulls

>>50153882

The terror of weakness that that shows them your path
The horror of vulnerability that begs your vengence
With no dreadful secrets your axe would sit dry
Without great Thamoraz none would come begging for you
So remember your due, he asks only fear

O mighty Lord of Excess, Prince Slaanesh
Who exalts our souls and leads to perfection
Who grants us bliss from her palace so grand
Whose beauty inspires and ignites our passions
Remember your due, O Dark Prince

The terror of deprivation that shows them your path
The horror of poverty that begs your excess
With no threatening loss none would seek ever more
Without great Thamoraz none would come begging for you
So remember your due, he asks only fear

O Mighty Rictus of Desperation, Empty Thamoraz
The necessary evil and lord of fear Horrible Phokolus
Prophet of chaos guard us from contentment, bane of the path
May you dwell ever in our shadow great bringer of Chaos
Blessed is your due, O Merciless Nightmare

>>50153882
>>50153902
This chaos god probably gets as much food from the imperium as it does from its own faithful.

I feel bad for constantly giving Josman false info, the Titan in the shitty GK book that was discussed on the IRC actually explodes cause some meltas got thrown into while the fighting was going on.

There, the record has been set straight, the book remains not very good.

>>50150060
Wasn't Charadon stated to be about that old? I know at the very least it is described as being the bane of Ultima Segmentum for many centuries so I don't know if its really that wierd.

Not to mention a single Ork doesn't need to lead it, Charadon's gone through multiple Warbosses over the centuries but still was considered a single cohesive Empire.

>>50158014
It's fine, I'd have personally seen no problem with an Ork Empire existing under a succession of Warbosses in that matter, but I'm also not attached enough to mind.

I don't think I'll invest time in working on them much then though since they're just a footnote with no role. But, for what its worth, that footnote can be there then.

>>50150412
But it doesn't need to be the same Ork Warlord. Many Ork Empires have existed with successive rulers. Charadon's one example, with the assumed title of Arch-Arsonist, but Octarius too has an inherited title of Overfiend which has been possessed by numerous different Orks over the centuries.

Alright, so I apparently need group approval for my plans for Zan

>Is generally disliked by most folks due to him being a mutant, a psyker, underhanded, just (for the asshole primarchs), socially inept, poor leader, etc
>Legion goes traitor and ousts him
>He goes to Terra and enacts a glorious last stand against his own legion, earning the respect of his brothers
>Immediately afterwards his soul gets ripped from his body and trapped in a sword and his body gets stuffed to the brim with Daemons

Yay, nay?

>>50160085
I'm down with everything except the part where his legion turns while he remains loyal, because sadly the Eyes did it first.

Other than that, an idea that has been floating around is that Aubrey is the one to sword him, either as part of his nice sermon on Terra, or earlier in the war to fuel some pleasant warp shenanigans.

>>50160126
The Eyes of the Emperor turn Traitor against their Primarch? Since when?

>>50151556
I'm gonna do something similar next time I work on the Eldar.
>>50123194
Huh. Says I don't gotta work on Eldar no more. This may be biased towards the IG.

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New calendar.

On 24 November, assuming I still have roughrider fever, I will make a warrior aspect of riders to go with the craftworld

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GskNQoCQAKZgmSQlfYRM9I495Z8f7WltfoXDx2OXgUg/edit
So far on the Woytek Host.

>>50158014
>>50158057
>Charadon succession
Oh, OK. I did not know that, thanks for pointing it out.

>>50160085
Nay. Sigma's pointed out one problem, but the details you explained in irc make it clear that the Legion isn't much more than a Night Lords rip-off with an Orientalist spin.

>>50160598
It's been that way since 2015.

>>50162238
Okay dear Lumey, do YOU want the VII slot? Because you keep talking like you want the VII slot.

>>50160126
I'm really reluctant on him being full on traitor, it undermines the point of his character.

However the other part of his character is being Born To Suffer. Being labeled as a traitor as he's powerless to stop his body is pretty apt. I would like a portion of the Dreamies to remain loyal to defend his name.

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>>50162238
>Oh, OK. I did not know that, thanks for pointing it out.
I told you that!

>>50162366
If I had really wanted to write the 7th, I would have done it earlier this year when they were just sitting around as a problem and Hektor Heresy wasn't running threads. The point about the Dreameaters being Night Lords isn't even mine originally, it was Josman who pointed it out.

>>50162606
Well as long as I'm not stepping on already treaded ground with these guys they could be 1:1 Night Lords and I wouldn't care after the Eagles. It's unfortunate that the Eyes of the Emperor are what they are, but I'll roll with the punches and adapt Zan as necessary I suppose.

>>50160085
Actually, don't get too mad at Lumey for thinking they're a night lords ripoff. This was something we discussed at length last night after you hit the hay, and we all pretty universally decided that they were too close to the night lords.

Legion
>Specilize in fear and demoralizing the enemy
>battle plans depend on concealment and obfuscation.
>"A walking war-crime"
>Recruit from a criminal hive world

Primarch
>Profoundly lonely, never had a family
>Strong sense of justice in spite his own arguably monstrous nature
>Seeks the emperor's approval and obeys his orders despite a deep-seated mistrust for him.
>His own sense of justice ends up driving a wedge between him and his legion
>Eventually loses control of the legion entirely.
>Really fukken ugly.

>>50163506
The Night Lords are a very dour, sociopathic group. The Dreamies aren't by any estimate dour. They're very vibrant and loud, think noise marines, less Murderbatmen. The whole war crime thing stems from their extensive use of hallucinogens and psychoactive materials.

Zan did have a family, it was a monastic order. He had more family than most Primarchs, especially once the local village warmed up to the kindly monk with the wrappped face and strange eyes. Having his youth be as comfy as possible is vital in creating that tramua that turns him to a life of vigilantism.

He trusts in the Emperor, and he loves the Emperor, but that doesn't mean he doesn't question him everynow and then, especially when it comes to stuff like Genociding a whole planet. He does it, and he hates it, but he hates that HE'S doing it more than the Emperor telling him to do it.


I can't blame you guys for going of off what information you have since I haven't put anything hard down yet, but I want to hammer things out before I'm forced to do major rewrites

>>50163848
Fair enough.

>>50165513
Never bump with bump.

>>50165554
Ok why?

>>50165618
It's a waste of a post. Why bump when you can propose an idea or comment on another

Right now we have three things we seem to be focusing on.
>Minor Gods
>Chaos Xenos/Major Xenos factions
>Dreameaters

Why not share your thoughts on those as opposed to just saying "bump". Bumps are literal cancer

>>50165779
>fair point
I haven't followed much of the Dreameaters really. Seems to mostly have been handled in IRC and doesn't have any written treatment.
I'm not particularly keen about them for a number of reasons, many of those already raised above. And while I don't have issue with Japanese inspirations they often end up a certain way, that just isn't to my tastes personally.

>Minor Gods
On the face of it it seems like fun and if its impact on the setting is small, I don't mind.
If they're meant to be a bigger deal, I do. Having the nuances of the big 4 explored, and actually showing their power struggles is more to my personal tastes. Also making them actually chaotic, which admittedly this feeds, but I'd rather reserve judgement until I see what actually is being proposed in full.

>Chaos Xenos
I get it, and I don't think its a terrible idea.
Though I'd be concerned about it undermining the faction identities and overcomplicating them by justifying larger chaos-versions of said factions existence.
Eldar are the worst for that as they already have the regular Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequins.
Orks could be fun, and in canon fluff they already have fought for chaos as well as tau.

>>50166025
>If they're meant to be a bigger deal, I do
I'd actually kind of weigh in on this side. The big four having different Aspects was something I always loved about the warhammer fantasy. For example, Nurgle wasn't just a plague god. He also had the friendly side that kind of gets shown in 40k a bit, but he also has the aspect of the Reaper, a silent avatar of death's inevitability. Khorne didn't usually do the "kill the children too" thing, because murdering a child proves no strength. Slaanesh's patrons were just as often artists and poets as debauched serial killers. (kudos to Josman for touching on that idea with his Knights)

I'm just saying, adding minor gods when we haven't even tapped the potential of the big four seems like putting the cart before the horse.

This idea of the fear god is a good example is this fear god. Fear is one of nurgle's things, and it always has been, if even straight up says so in the codices that most of his power comes from people in the imperium fearing death.

>>50167020
>I'm just saying, adding minor gods when we haven't even tapped the potential of the big four seems like putting the cart before the horse.

The problem with trying to tap the potential of the big four always comes back to the problem with viewing them as monolithic entities and the idea that everything we've been told about the chaos gods thus far is completely reliable.

>>50167190
We should probably get around to making pages for the four Ruinous Powers full of explicitly unreliable narration and theories that are singled out as half-baked.

>>50167259
Stuff like,

>At the Conclave Malefic of 248.M33, Inquisitor Demoraz put forward an interesting theory that the four generally recognised major gods of Chaos are merely representations of K'Mo-Hez, the Infinite Mirror. However, Demoraz's presentation was slightly marred by the Inquisitor's summing up. Rather than state his conclusions, he began screaming, tore out his own eyes, and attempted to rip open his own throat before he was restrained. Perhaps for this reason, the Demoraz Hypothesis remains a minority view among Inquisitors.

>>50167190
>>50167259
>>50167325
Or we could do what all the other wikis do, and just say what they're actually like. Wiki articles shouldn't be prosaic writefagging. They're supposed to be informational. Sure you can have "and this person's theory is X", but you should still say how things actually are.

>>50167378
It's possible to be informational without being completely exhaustive.

>>50153882
>>50153902
Fucking sweet

>>50167378
>do what all other wikis do
"All other wikis" can't include wikipedia, because their articles on metaphysical beings are full of theories and contrasting views without any conclusive statement on the nature of the entity concerned.

>>50167378
Ah yes, let us be cut and dry with beings made of metaphysical and literal chaos. That sounds grand

>>50167020
>This idea of the fear god is a good example is this fear god. Fear is one of nurgle's things, and it always has been, if even straight up says so in the codices that most of his power comes from people in the imperium fearing death.
Yes but he's also despair. The fear he devours could boil and abcess and pop, like an over ripe tumour, and out come rolling Thamoraz

>>50166025

Yeah, ironing out them out in IRC is whats been going on. I understand your apprehension when it comes to their theme, but I'm focusing more on SEA/Japanese Gang culture and asiatic ghost folklore for the legion as a whole, with HONORABU samurai only in the Primarch's honour guard.

As for the Minor gods I've been saying there should be some impetus to this grand fragmenting of chaos. I think that this should really be more of an end times thing. How I would play it off is
>Malal Advances The Plot and turns the big four against eachother in earnest
>Psychic Awakening happens, BOOM New Eldar Pantheon+Big E off the throne (somehow) and the return of the Primarchs. Maybe toss in some Necron that are able to see the bigger picture
>They set aside their differences and kick down the doors of the Warp to Get Isha's Soul free from nurgle/Get back Ku'Motsk, Eldrad, and Illic from Slaanesh/Get back Primarch/s lost in the warp/Kick chaos in the balls
>Big E+Eldar Pantheon are able to land a hit on the Gods, breaking pieces of them off before being forced to retreat
>Bam, instant new gods
But before then we just focus on making the gods have layers. Like an onion.

As for Chaos Xenos I'm down for it, except for Chaos Eldar, unless its a single dude who's a giant snowflake, because I'm retty sure it's impossible for that to happen

>>50167583
Sounds like you just want to diversify End Times 40k

Nothing wrong with that mind

>>50167402
True, I'd just rather not have a wiki artical comprised of 80% hearsay and rumor (and psychotic ranting).

>>50167423
I was referring to the other game system wikis more than wikipedia itself.

>>50167443
Except chaos isn't especially choatic. Violent, scary, and fractious, sure, but we know from that other huge crusade-era human civilization (whose name escapes me at the moment) that took a scientific approach to studying chaos, and had a much easier time dealing with it than the imperium did.

So even if you're going to argue this from the lore side of things, which you shouldn't, it still makes sense.

>>50167614
Pfft. As if 40k ends with anything other than the necrons murdering every single thing everywhere.

>>50167583
>end times
We've been working on Hektor Heresy for a bit over two years and are only just dipping our toes into the Reformation era. At this rate of progress, we'll be getting to the End Times in about 2066.

>>50167629
OK, but if you want the wiki to make categorical claims about Chaos, you'll need to get everyone to agree on the true nature of the Ruinous Powers. While you do that, I'll be adding the "chrome" of what people in universe think about the gods - I think we all agree that mortals have a diversity of (often very wrong) opinions about the Chaos Gods, right?

>>50167647
Just because it will take a little while doesn't mean we should flst out not do it.

>>50167687
Hey, I'm not telling you that it won't happen, I'm just trying to help you set your expectations.

>>50167713
Right of course, but that doesn't change what you think about it.

Speaking of which what DO you think about it?

>>50167876
I'm not that interested in the Chaos powers, so I have no strong feelings about the End Times plan. The "onion layers" take on the Gods sounds interesting but I suspect that it will need to be the view of an unreliable narrator in order to avoid arguments about Cosmic Truth.

>>50167950
All we mean by layers is giving back to the gods something they lost a long time ago; depth.

Khorne wasn't always about sensless violence and bloodshed, back in the old days a big part of his worship was only fighting worthy opponents. Dudes that preyed exclusively upon the week and defenseless were seen as cowards and unworthy of Khorne. But recently he's lost his honour and is now a braindead marauder (even though that's explicitly Khaine's thing)

Tzeentch wasn't always LOL JUSTASPLANNED XDD memes and was actually a god of scholarly pursuits, rewarding those who unearthed ancient arcana and sharing cosmic secrets, albeit rarely

Slaanesh had as many artesians and craftsmen under xir wing as sex crazed druggies. Xe actually as a patron god of refining ones craft to ridiculous levels of perfection

Its just stuff like that. Now they're just
>Lol BLOOD
>Lol SCHEMES
>Lol Sex

I don't want to talk about Nurgle because nurgle freakes me the fuck out

Do we have a Khârn character? Or an Arhiman? Or a Typhus? Or a Lusius?

>>50168239
I'm not opposed to it, I just think that it runs at cross-purposes to at least some of the people who want to make minor Chaos Gods. But you can probably make it work by pushing the arguments over who is right into the fictional universe rather than having them in threads or IRC or whatever.

>>50167583
By the way, I've dropped a quote from Gaspard Lumey on Zan Shin's page based on the general vibe I've gotten about him. I think it will work for any of the various plans being thrown around.

>>50168249
Significant non-Primarch characters are unevenly distributed across the Legions. On the specific equivalents; the Life Bringers have several, the Sons of Fire page has some short write-ups (I think?), the 13th isn't something we talk about, the the Lions Rampant have a few short profiles.

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I should've skipped today on my calendar. I'm more concerned with the election than with expanding my race.

Chaos Warband tomorrow.

>>50168682
Little things like elections don't matter. Warhammer is what matters.

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>>50170444
Although now ypu can have your cake and eat it too, because we have a real life god emperor as of now.

>>50168363
>the 13th isn't something we talk about
Is there a way we can talk about it?

>>50171430
How so? The XIIIth have been...contentious

>>50171438
Ok, but is compromise literally impossible?

>>50171451
It'd be nice if that could happen.

>>50171438
Why are they like that?

>>50171451
>is compromise literally impossible?
I'll lay out the situation as I see it and you can decide for yourself.

The last time I talked to their writer about a compromise, I started off noting that the Legion had been proposed two years earlier and still weren't finished and asked if there was an expected time until they were "functionally complete" - not done for all time but pretty much cashed out to the extent that other contributors could reference the page and know what was going on with the 13th when the Heresy begins.

The answer was "no".

There was a lot of yelling after that, mostly from me, but after venting I asked if the outline I'd drawn up at https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Justiciars (an attempt to help the 13th's author) could at least serve as a reference piece for other contributors while he wrote his own thing - that is, they didn't need to be the very same, but they shouldn't contradict one another. That was agreed to, but the compromise didn't last more than two months. What's happened is that chunks of my writing that the writer likes have been copy-pasted in, while in other places he's gone in completely the opposite direction.

Now, I want to make clear that I don't particularly mind that there are creative differences. There are many things in HH that I would write differently if I was the one writing them, but don't raise project problems. In this case, if someone had been using my outline as a reference, they'd have been wrong-footed by the changes - and I still don't know how far the changes will go, so I've just been avoiding the 13th.

(Some other contributors are less happy about a quarantine and have tried to force the issue, but that's not germane to your question.)

>>50171529
But what's actually WRONG with them?

>>50171540
A lot, and the writer doesn't seem to want to openly take part in threads or otherwise come forward to discuss the 13th.

In more detail, the canonical page at https://1d4chan.org/wiki/The_Justicars is currently a mess. It contains several different conceptions of the Legion that don't really mesh. There's still Mary Sue holdovers that were just less glaring than the stuff that we spent months arguing over in 2014, like Uriel Salazar's gene-seed being "remarkably stable and virile" to the point that the 13th don't have any issues with mutation while serving Tzeentch. On top of that, the writing is clunky and repetitive, making it a chore to actually go through the material to offer constructive criticism.

I did recall toying around the idea with Uriel that the VHP was supplying them with antiphasmic class drugs to suppress the mutations. Not that that would work on a large scale.

>>50171588
>like Uriel Salazar's gene-seed being "remarkably stable and virile" to the point that the 13th don't have any issues with mutation while serving Tzeentch
Hahaha wooooow

>>50171529
>What's happened is that chunks of my writing that the writer likes have been copy-pasted in, while in other places he's gone in completely the opposite direction.

Then I apologise for misunderstanding what you said at the time about that. I'm sure you remember I was initially unhappy about what I felt was "colour within the lines". But you clarified and I thanked you for the help. Though by asking for help I was seeking tips and feedback to improve as a writer.
You said I could use it as I saw fit, and that it doesnt hurt to have that aid even if you don't use it. I understood 2 things from that; 1) that pasting it in was not a problem, and 2) structuring around it was preferred by you and others. So I did that.
If that is an issue, I'll remove those parts and write them in my own words. But I assume that will be the greater of two evils frankly, given your distaste for my writing.

>Geneseed
I'll correct that. It wasn't meant to stay that way once they fall.

>Clunky writing
Ok I won't ask you to go through the whole thing, but could you take an example and tell me how I'd improve it, and if applicable why.
I assume unnecessary verbosity is an issue, I've started to correct myself on that more often. And Merrill has already made me aware of run on sentences which I'll fix as best I can. I try to correct myself on that as I write now, so I'm at least mindful of that particular issue.

>While we're both here
I doubt you'll believe it or care, but I would like to apologise for my part in the bad blood between us. My actions have caused more arguments between us than would have otherwise been.
So yeah, I'm sorry. Also, you called me out on a few things a while ago. You were wrong on a bunch, but bang on with some. And after some time, I realised you were right, and I'm seeking to improve myself on that front. I'm not asking you to expect anything different, but hopefully you'll see it.

>>50171749
If its easier to review my writing style, I wrote this IA regiment too: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Falqerkan_Engineers

Its considerably shorter than the legion page, which might reduce your headache.

>>50171749
>misunderstanding
You're conflating two separate discussions. I wrote the outline, you complained that it was colour between the lines and that when you'd asked for help you expected to get a writing coach for free. I told you that you could use the outline as you saw fit. You didn't do ANYTHING for months, so I came back and asked what sort of time frame there would be for the 13th being in a serviceable state. There was yelling, but at the end of that the compromise about the use of my outline as a reference was agreed. So the issue I was raising is not that you copied over my writing (some contributors are offended by it, but I don't really care) but that there was an agreement and you didn't stick to it.

To address the issue that you seem to have in mind, the problem is that you've copied over my writing, copied in some of your old stuff, and added some new material, without any substantial effort to harmonise them. As far as I can tell, there are three different concepts on that page.

>could you take an example and tell me how I'd improve it, and if applicable why.
So you acknowledge that we're far from friends and in the same breath want me to do you a favour? It makes the apology look a bit suspect! But OK, let's start with something from your post.

>I assume unnecessary verbosity is an issue, I've started to correct myself on that more often.
This is a funny sentence, because it identifies a problem and provides an example of it. You could have said:
>I assume verbosity is an issue? I'm trying to correct myself on that.

Aside from the waffling, your writing is often unclear:

>The legion prefers fleet combat to boarding action, but does not shy from the latter, given their expertise with close-quarters fighting, they simply put their trust in the skill of their fleet commanders and Imperial Navy personnel.

There's no way for anyone else to fix that for you, because you're the only one that knows exactly what you're trying to say.

>>50171962
I don't see why the apology would be suspect. We may not be friends, but we both have a vested interest in the project.
At least that's how I saw it when I wrote that.
Thank you for still providing feedback regardless. It is genuinely appreciated. I'll take your comments under advisement then, and try fixing those issues. I'll be busy from now until after this weekend. As of right now though, I should have some time next week to dedicate to that end.

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>>50168682
Today I will work on Khorne's Revival, a warband mixed with Christian forgiveness!

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Hi Uriel.

>>50172072
>>50171962
Take it into the IRC

This has been a productive and vibrant thread thus far

>>50172403
Give the guy a chance to defend his legion out in the open, rather than shunting everything into the IRC.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LKi-4zuegJ7-0Ok-R8-7MZmFhD91WiA9pJcwDQIROXA/edit
Work has begun.

Hey, can we replace the three major hive fleets with other hive fleets?

>>50173466
I'd rather not. Instead we keep the same hive fleets but just have their history be majorly altered

>>50173750
What the heck is the point in keeping their names if we're changing their histories?

>>50173857
What the heck is the point of changing their names?

>>50174778
Because if we're changing everything else about them, we might as well change their names. Why not just call the Void Angels the ultramarines? Nevermind that they're a totally different legion with a different primarch, history, and tactics, there's just no point in changing their names, right?

>>50174888
False equivalency. The Astartes Legions are post Slaanesh, and are different from the ground up. Simply retexturing an Astartes Legion but keeping the name would be jarring, since they are so familiar to us and they have so much PERSONALITY.

Tyranids don't have any personality, being one of the only truly alien species in 40k. The only thing that there is to change is their impact on the galaxy and their actions. There will be no Macrage to break Behemoth, no Calgar to lead the defense of Ichar IV nor an Iyanden to break Kraken. And tell me, just jow different would leviathan be? The fact of the matter is, Tyranids are given characterization via the conflicts that they are involved in, their names are simply Imperial designations.

Now typically I'd agree with you, it would make sense that in a slightly different Imperium a Hive Fleet or three may be given a different designation, but I highly suspect that the chages won't stop there, when they probably should. The Swarmlord and their colour schemes may very well be older than slaanesh, older than the War in Heaven perhaps, we have no way of knowing, and those are the only notable things about the Tyranids beyond the hivemind. I personally hate hero units for the Tyranids because they don't need them, it makes them way too relatable.

So I've kinda gotten off track, but my point is you can't compare apples to oranges. Space Marines chapters and legions typically have vibrant personalities and rich histories and should have recognizable names to reflect that. Tyranids are locusts. A living weather pattern. The Imperium gives them names like we name Hurricanes. There's no reason to change "Leviathan" to "Cyclops" unless you want to make them sooper special and put personality in a faction that really shouldn't have any

>>50175199
That's actually a really good point, and I withdraw my objection.

>>50175498
However a lot of the current "hero units" are just rare bioformes that are only used in very particular situations. Minor hive fleets can evolve to such a specialized degree due to their size.

If you want to dress up "Your dudes" for the Tyranids (an admittedly NPC race, and I play them) I would do it by first creating timelines on what you think should happen with the Tyranids as a whole and then from there create a splinter fleet and build up their specializations and history

>>50175199
Following the Hurricane analogy, it might make sense to mix things up a little bit. Like rather than Behemoth, Kraken, Leviathan being the names of the three major fleets, perhaps it's Behemoth, Grendel, Naga, while Kraken and Leviathan are the names given to splinter fleets.

But this isn't a major concern until about M36, right?

>>50177282
I thought the Hive Fleets started showing up way later than that? Or are we shifting it around a little.

>>50177295
The main Hive Fleets show in M41, but there's weird goings-on well before that. I take Ouroboris in M36 as the most invasion-like, but that's just my opinion.

>>50177282
>But this isn't a major concern until about M36, right?
Unless you're referring to some intergalactic forecasting, then no.

And I'm working on post-heresy, so knowing the of the Tyranids would be useful.

>>50177295
>>50177282
>>50177356
Well if you read the HH books, there's actually some events going on that are CERTAINLY NOT TYRANID related in ultima segmentum.

>>50177282
Sure, in fact I wouldn't introduce any new names for the major fleets and just shuffle them around. Except Leviathan, it's such a perfect name for them rising from the galactic depths and all.

However a Hive Fleet Grendle WILL be a thing.

>>50177633
Pretty sure it's already a thing. Kraken, Leviathan, Grendel, Lamiah, Gieger, Behemoth, Gorgon, Dagon.

>>50177742
Naga as well.

Alternative Hivefleet names: Hydra, Scylla, Nicor, Juggernaut.

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A question about psykers and sorcerers.

How does necromancy work in 40k, if at all. I know Nurgle has zombies but if someone wanted to raise skeletons, could they?

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>>50178705
Probably.

>>50178705
I don't see why not.

>>50178705
I think it's something that GW avoids because they represent Undead In Space with Necrons (and Eldar, to a lesser extent). Here, it's not such a problem but I still feel like identity of factions is something to weigh against other gains.

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>>50178817
Fair enough. I've just been thinking about some things and how they could be made to work.

>>50178705
Didn't the sorcerer king who raised mortarion use necromancy?

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LKi-4zuegJ7-0Ok-R8-7MZmFhD91WiA9pJcwDQIROXA/edit

Done with Khorne's Revival for now. Tomorrow...

Actually, I feel like doing an Adepta Sororitas Order.

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On the subject of the SoB, I mentioned warrior priests of the Ministorum on the Khorne's Revival draft. Considering the Age of Apostasy happens differently if at all, do you think the Ecclesiarchy would still be able to arm their priesthood to be warriors as well as priests?

>>50179487
This is actually an older question, I'm just bringing it back up.

>>50179487
It would be likely of course, though I do not think they would be able to achieve the same level of importance as the SoB without some major even thrusting them into the limelight.

>In the canon, there is a farseer who found where the Culexus Temple was but didn't destroy it because he saw it would somehow lead to his craftworld's destruction. What if there was a farseer who found the temple, but didn't see the same fate and so decided to destroy it anyway? I think I may use that for my corsair fleet's defeat.

It has been explored by Aaron Dembski-Bowden in his Night Lords trilogy. Last line = "I am Decimus, Prophet of the Eighth Legion."

>>50179631
EIGHTH LEGION?! HOW DARE YOU BRING UP SUCH A RIDICULOUS CONCEPT! THERE IS NO ROOM FOR SUCH HERESY IN OUR ALTERNATE UNIVERSE WITH A PITIFUL NECKBEARD SAMURAI, PURE TZEENTCHIAN MARINES, AND A MARY SUE ELDAR EMPIRE!

>>50182269
Sounds like someone's salty that there's no space for their legion

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>>50179464
Today, I write the Order of the Icy Clench!

>>50179464
These aren't all HkH, right? Some of these are just 40k homebrew?

>>50183344
These are all going to be concepts I use for KhK in the future. At least half of it may get tossed but hey, that's art.

>>50183380
My problem is this is a lot of content. And Craftworlds? Hive Fleets? Major content. I don't want to be beholden to your work

>>50183924
Zorg is doing this for NaNoWriMo, let him have his 50k words

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>>50183924
80% of craftworlds and hive fleets you probably don't remember well. I know I can't.

>>50184007
Wrong. I play 'Nids.

>>50184558

>>50184558
I used to play nids too, but I only ever remember the Big 3. There are a berjillion obscure craftworlds and splinter fleets.

>>50182269
Yeah, you tell them! Some nameless fucker being salty will really set them right!

>>50185456
>>50182434
Nice try samefag

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>>50185746
Sorry, but no.

>>50183924
Then write up your own, there's certainly nothing stopping you.

So what's next on the agenda

>>50187866
Snakes.

Yo, Cal. Don't your people have the next few days?

Work on Zan/Dreamies?

>>50187866
Next on my agenda is Dooming Craftworld Meros.

>>50188150
Yeah, that's the plan


I just need to figure out when Zan gets put into a sword then everything should go relatively smoothly after that

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>>50187866
Today, Order of the Icy Clench for M41. Tomorrow, Orks.

Or maybe more Imperial Guard if I feel like it.

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Watching Curtis and Armstrong bro it up in old FMA clips. Maybe I'll make a character based on Armstrong, maybe I won't. idk

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On the subject of the Chaos Gods...

Fuck yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes eyse yse yse yseyseyseywsyesyghaydssahgbdhasbfhsbfhasbfhafab

There's plenty of different religions to look for for major deities then subordinate deities. The principal ones are Zoroastrianism, and Hindu belief. The myths in both have major, over deities with several minor Gods that represent minor aspects. To expand upon this, of course you can warbands devoted to these Minor Deities. Even better, this allows players to write in new deities - some even contradicting on purpose to oppose one another in universe.

I'm thinking we can introduce these deities in the Legionary Wars, when the Legions begin to fragment and balkhanize. The Chaos Legionnaires meet with these Deities in a sort of unholy sabbatical, gaining enlightenment and knowledge after declaring fealty to this multitude of infernal beings. These minor deities hope to achieve the ultimate state possible - MANTLING, the MANTLE is being taken into the essence of their Over-Deity, permanently aligning that God more with the aspect they stand for.

Thus, the whole "Chaos Leads to Godhood" can be less vague about making you a Daemon Prince, and could actually build up from Daemon Prince to Minor Godhood, to MANTLING.

This concept of MANTLING could make the Voidwatcher think he could force it through sorcery and NECRODERMIS.

>>50192271
That would totally give Chaos something more to do than sit around in the eye of terror and be ineffectual until the plot demands them.

>>50192271
The Thunder Kings traitors worship what could be argued as subordinate deities to the principal Chaos Gods. The Crow Queen is not the same in all ways as Khorne, after all.

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>>50190351
I'll write IG. I'm not feeling orky on Veteran's Day.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YTtdcNVRmzoGSD4L1ZNQipiaeT3dOmKvlJXNHMu7OWY/edit
And I never finished these guys. Oh well, December is National Guilt Trip Month. Nagutrimo. I can work on them then.

>>50192271
I fully support a more expansive Chaos Pantheon, but I feel there needs to be some reasoning as to why the Pantheon is so fractured

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>>50194963

What happened to the Crimson Eagles? The Dreameaters are cool, but I can't help but laugh at the fact that the curse kicked in again.

>>50196548
Has no work been done on them?

>>50196548
The Crimson Eagles were too close to the Iron Rangers, so Arbites turned them into a Loyalist chapter

>>50196548
This, basically >>50196787, was it the curse of the Seventh? Yeah, I suppose. But at least I have something better to work with now, something a little more fresh. But since I enjoyed the concept of Caligor I'm going to make the eagles a second founding chapter. But right now I need these things down pat

>Zan and the Emperor's relationship
>When Zan gets SWORDED and his corpse goes Daemon Primarch
>His relationship with the other Primarchs

Once I get those three things down pat I'll get to work. I have a four day so I'll be able to put down some solid work

>>50197521
In other words, creative bankruptcy.

>>50199257
Ah yes, brave and noble Anonymous offering valuable and constructive wisdom. Well if anything, this is new title for me. Perhaps you could indulge me and point out where exactly I outted my self as a hack and literary vampire? Because where I'm sitting, upon my wooden throne of imaginary poverty, the only things that I'm drawing a blank on are things that require some measure of group approval, such as his relationships with the other big wigs. Perhaps you'd recall (or perhaps not) the time where I, a skittering fraud, wished to have the Emperor dote on the Primarch like the severely autistic child of the family, before Our Lord and Savior Lumey (Lumey, I'm 'avin' a giggle) noted that the Emperor would treat him like a broken or damaged tool. And I think it would be ridiculous to erroneously assume who he would be friends with since I can't really make that determination for another writer.

But nevermind that, rushing to my own defense only proves my crime of literary famine, my pitiful "ideas" misshapen excuses for contributions to this grand and monumental work that I, but a creative cretin that I am, have set to bismirch and corrupt with my dearth of artistic soul.

Indeed, o' Mighty and Great Anon, I am but a worm in your presence, your great works too awesome to be beholden in my miserable and wretched eyes.

You fucking faggot

>>50199589
You're the one who spent all that time and energy replying to a single sentence mate.

>>50199589
You got room for one more on that cross?

>>50199677
>>50199634
You guys ever think that you may be assholes and that's why this project's dying? A guy asks a question as he's an asshole, it's ridiculous. Unless you guys are tourists, then fuck off

>>50199589
>>50199634
>>50199677
>>50201169
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

>>50201169
I'm not the one that posted an entire paragraph of smartass.

>>50201260
I'm not the one who answered simple questions with baseless insults. So I think some sass is warranted, fucker.

>>50201243
Fuck that, fuckers want to start a fire instead of helping out? Fine, let it burn.

>>50201169
>>50201286
Simply put, in my observations of this project I see a humongous willingness to provide for prospective writers a chance to flex their mental muscles and prove their creative worth. But on the flip side, I see a complete apathy or outright inability to call people out when they're merely taking up space. I see this with Alexandri, who's a smartass fuck who has no contributions lately on 1d4chan, but I also see huge swathes of the project being dead like with the 13th or the 7th. The work of Onyx sits unused and uncared for without so much as a word raised to cut it, while people want to actively fuck with Lumey who's the most active out of all you. Things seems backwards in this project. The non-contributors have the most say, and the workhorses are treated like pariah.

>>50201292
Lumey's a pretty polarising figure but I think most people realise that this project would be dead without him.

>>50201286
Baseless insults, coming from a guy who posted all that mess? >>50199589

I poked fun at your martyr complex, oh woe is you indeed. You're the one getting defensive and angry.

>>50201292
>The work of Onyx sits unused and uncared for without so much as a word raised to cut it
I have some thoughts on developing it. The main issue with the Stone Men is that the writing is a bit shaggy and they're not particularly connected to other parts of the universe.

>>50201393
The two main problems with the Stone Men are that the writing is a bit shaggy and they're not particularly connected to other parts of the universe. And Onyx doesn't have a proper exit from the scene.

>>50201393
>>50201419
Among the problems with the Stone Men are that.... I'll come in again.

>>50201292
Okay, he's the thing buddy, I'm gonna afix a name here so I can't be accused of cowardice, and I'm going to be as polite as possibly can fucking be.

Just because you, and I say you because you're probably ass hurt over some perceived slight you gutter slime, put out a lot of out DOES NOT under ANY circumstances mean we have to fucking bear the wind that swells in your wretched passing you fucking mold. Pariahs are pariahs because they don't know how to fucking conduct themselves like a normal fucking human being. Take your precious Saint Lumey. Works hard, great organizer, can mediate rather well when he has to. Doesn't fucking know how to talk to people, and that makes him a wee bit of a shithead in the eyes of the masses. I a "non-contributor" can hold my own in a conversation and say nice things to nice people when I'm in a good mood. Unlike yourself you whoreson, legless, spineless, disease riddled vermin.


Now how's about you take the succulent dick out of your ass and answer three god damn motherfucking questions so I can get some fucking work done you brainless, drooling sheepfucker

And before anyone gets their precious feelings hurt, consider how easy it would have been to just answer three questions

I've had a bad day and I don't need some candy ass faggot anons beating their dicks in this god damn thread

>>50201621
I'll answer, probably after I make the new thread since nobody seems to be in a hurry to do it

>>50201644
You're fucking more useful than anybody else so far.

>>50201536
Wew Lad.

>>50201861
He's still throwing a tantrum in IRC half an hour on. It's hilarious.

>>50201861
>>50201879
A particular highlight, in the context of Arbite's foul-mouthed ranting above, was when he wrote this:
>Insults are for those who lack the strength to break the backs of thos beneath them

>>50201879
Pop on Skype for a second if ya would Frog man. Got questions for Frankenstein I need help with, just to run my some ideas.

>>50202054
He's a rather flowery writer, huh? I guess angst brings out the poet in people.

>>50201536
>>50201621
Arbites, maybe if this is causing you so much distress, why bother? This isn't worth your time if it's upsetting you.