Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Worgen were a mistake.
They should have remained the extradimensional horrors they were up until Cataclysm's "lol druids" retcon.

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Content bump.

>tfw no actual chicago-style gadgetzan where you help one of the gangs conquer the city
>could even have a pvp element that allows players, even those of the same faction (alliance/horde), fight each other if they're working for different gangs

>>50109109
What were the Worgen originally?

>>50110431
Interdimensional werewolves that would hunt their target no matter where they wrnt. Basically think Hounds of Tindalos.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vlsdk_UwN0
Rejoyce freinds, our Long War is entering into final stage, it's time to finish Warhammer in their own niche.

Any interesting news from BlizzCon yet?

>>50111543
Tomb of Sargeras will be coming in the next major patch (although that is like a while off, considering their new design philosophy is to do more small patches between the major ones). Kil'jaeden will be the final boss. Same patch will add flying in Broken Isles, with all classes getting their own flying mount. Brawler's Guild will get rewamped and brought back. More artefact powers will be added.

>>50111565
>kil'jaeden
reusing heroes from WC3 continues.

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>>50111823
Well, at least they didn't resurrect someone again just so that they could kill him one raid later.

>>50111830
Never knew that it would become so prophetic eh?

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>>50107503
Daily reminder than Cenarius did NOTHING wrong and the green skins all deserved to be slaughtered by Nature's forces.

>>50110431
Worden were a group of people from Lorderon during the orc attack who shunt themselves into a city to only be forced out by the worgen infection.

>>50111823
>BITCHING ABOUT PEOPLE FROM WC3
>LITERALLY EVERY HERO OF AZEROTH IS IN WC3

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So why did the first attack on the Broken Shore fail so badly?

>>50111857
Cenarius has had one opportunity to do wrong, and he did it. He got Corrupted.com'd while having a snooze.

>>50110188
It really pisses me off when RPGs do little handouts that skew the parchment/tablet/whatever but the text isn't aligned with it.

Regarding 7.2, I'm so glad that Shamans finally get an Elemental mount of some sort. I've been wanting to fly around on a thundercloud for ages.

>>50111857
this
dindu genocide when?

>>50111874
because sylvanas is shifty and shitty.
And now she has NO FUTURE

>>50111886
what do DKs get?
And did you niggas actually pay 40 blizzardbux?

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>>50111874
Because the Horde pulled a Loghain Mac Tir.


And the only people who are sane enough to want to hold the horde to account are treated as zelots and the "real villans" for not being abe to fogive the long list of dirty deeds the horde got to answer for.

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>>50111904
>what do DKs get?

Some sort of Fel frostwyrm. Felwyrm?

>>50111915
fuck me.
thats gonna look so with the fel iron plate set.

>>50111909
What was the Horde supposed to do though? The Alliance wasn't making any headway even with their help and two of their leaders were down. Should they have stayed and been slaughtered so the Legion could use their souls to spawn more troops?

>>50111904
>what do DKs get?

Basiclly another zombie dragon, atleast it looks real plagued and sickly so that's something. Kinda cool actully.

Only complaint is, it's just another fucking drake model. I really wish they would have been a tad more creative.

Atleast we didn't get the mage one, that one was just creative bankruptcy.

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>>50111823
Shouldn't be a surprised that we're going to fight Kil'Jaeden.
He's been there from the start.

>>50111929
what did the mage get?

>>50111921
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/6085-BlizzCon-2016-World-of-Warcraft-Legion-What-s-Next

All of them look pretty great, in my opinion. Warrior the best, even with the tiny T-Rex arms.

As a Rogue main myself though, I'm torn on the Raven. It's fitting I guess, but it's not too interesting.

>>50111874
Based Varian is now in heaven soloing Ragnaros.
https://youtu.be/yuOV1gCnSNo

>>50111951
>milker on stage
>"p-please play our game"

>>50111925
>The Alliance wasn't making any headway
Bullshit. They had just called in their gunship that proceeded to mow down a bunch of demons, even knocking the big names like Jaraxxus on their ass, or worse. I mean, yeah, they were still gonna get caught in the trap and things probably would have ended worse for it, but that doesn't excuse the Horde for retreating right when the final push was just starting.

>>50111945
Yeah they look pretty good.
I might have a few problems at first with smooth everything is, namely on the paladin mount, but I'll get used to it.

>>50111945
>be eleshamanfag
>pretty hated in dungeons and raids right now
>at least we get a boss ass air elemental to ride on while we have trails of elements falling behind us
>it will be the coolest shit
i'm ok with this.

>>50111965
hordefag here, can simply tell you sylvanas is a whore, every single person except filthy stiffies agree, remove undead nuke them with the goblin gun and take out ironforge while were at it.
also nuke furries since their right next to them.

Are humans the only playable race in WoW that haven't been reduced to a single shitty stereotype?

>>50112350
Depends, does bland count as a stereotype.

>>50111857
SACRED VINES

40 wipes and counting

>>50111951
>Varian having his own isekai adventure
Anime when?

>>50112359
I... hmm...

That's an interesting question, is "lacking in defining qualities" a defining quality?

>>50112374
Hopefully not normal.

>>50112849
>people actually raid
>they don't do LFR to see the story and then unsub.

>>50112858
I couldn't suffer the embarrassment of using LFR.

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Tell me a story, anon. Tell me the story of how the House of Wrynn came to be. How did the line make a name for itself before the life and death of King Llane?

>>50112960
probably by jewing the hard working people of stormwind.

>>50112960
Not much to tell as far as I know. They were a noble family from Strom who left that country and headed south to found Stormwind.

>>50111886

Aligning it properly would have taken too much effort. Also, it was written by a gnoll.

>>50112849
Mythic

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>>50107503

>>50113923
>says the kraut refugee spawn.

>>50109109
>>50110513
IIRC, even back then they were related to Elune somehow.

I remember running around in Duskwood a long tim ago and something something Scythe of Elune, something something worgen, something something dark riders, something something never really elaborated on further.

>>50109109
>>50114262
the priestess of elune was losing to demons and decided to ask elune for help against the demons. They ended up creating the druids of the claw and something went wrong leading to furries.

>tfw your headcannon is the alliance rolling into wod, and now the broken isles with mana bombs and gnomeish made nukes.

gnomes have access to radioactive material and are advanced enough to begin splitting the atom. "My, you're a tall one!"dropped on org when?

>>50114262
Back then the implication was that the Scythe of Elune had fuck all to do with Elune.

>>50114470
>"My, you're a tall one!"
>Not Fat Dwarf and Little Gnome.

>>50114470
Don't be ridiculous, gnomes aren't allowed to do important things.

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So, who else watched the Mean Streets of Gadgetzan trailer and immediately wanted to play a game based on it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTyeE5oK7LQ

>>50114849
yeah. Goblin towns would be an incredible place to run a campaign in.

>>50114565
Given it wouldn't be a test but an act of active aggression, an absolutely killing blow that would tear the heart out of the horde and reduce it to a trio of sparely populated, isolated pockets of resistance- plus a nation of abominations now lacking the backbone of the orcish war machine, I like to imagine they'd name it something more personal.

>>50114877
there is nothing more personal than dwarf and gnome bro ops.
their races have that older and younger sibling vibe.

>>50114849
Why does Hearthstone have a better writing staff than Warcraft proper?

>>50114902
because they can fluff out stuff without having to make everything EPIC

>>50114849
>Shadowrun: World of Warcraft Edition

I'd play the living hell out of it

>>50115016
>gnomeish decker when

>>50114902
Because it is up and coming project while WoW is dying cow that they're now waiting slowly to bleed to death.

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>>50114902
They don't have Red vs. Blue stupids.

>>50111990
Purge the unclean brother, the Tauren, Orcs, Goblins, Trolls, and High Elves are the true Horde races, the Undercity is filth to be purged (the Huojin Pandas are cool too I guess)

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>>50111857

Deers are for roasting.

Fandral did nothing wrong.

>>50118790
>falling for Ragnaros' memes

Does anybody have some Highborne art, preferably female? I couldn't find any proper art.

So looking at Suramar and how it was,even 10000 years ago, is it safe to say that Tyrande and Malfurion basically cast the Night Elves into a gigantic dark age and made them live waaaay below ancient living standards due to their irrational hatred and fear of Arcane magic?

I mean,first off the whole ''legion came to Azeroth for magic'' has long since been dispelled as false.

And the ''oh no Arcane magic MIGHT lead to corruption'' is completely invalidated by the Emerald Nightmare fiasco.


So they've just been very much terrible leaders for 10k years..

>>50115016
More like Necromunda

Is there a lore reason people can't fly or is that just one of those 'because fuck you' things?

>>50111945

>main outlaw rogue
>Get a fucking raven and not a parrot

Fuck me.

>>50114849

Well considering I'm heavily looking at getting back into hearthstone and thinking about putting down 50 shekels for the pack and skin is testament enough.

>>50121463
The latter. Or, more precisely, I think they cut some corners to put the expac out in time, and some of the excised corners were textures, models, and maybe even unexisting collision physics reachable only through flying. The same thing happened with WoD, in their rush to end the 14 bloody months of 5.4: some parts of the Talador/Tanaan Jungle transition area were launched unfinished, without textures or badly modeled, because the devs hadn't the time and resources to finish Tanaan (which was supposed to be a level 100-only zone at launch) and the other zones (never delivered, or spoken of again) in time for the launch.

If there was a lore reason, it'd be pretty easy to implement:

>"Oh, the skies are chock-full of threats right now, if you try to fly you'll get murdered by by demonic bats/BRH falcons/harpies/lightning/arcane weapons, keep yer feet on the ground!"
>"Suramar's resurgence caused a huge storm of unstable mana/arcane energy because leylines/Nightwell/Eye of Aman'thul; you can try to fly, but I can't guarantee that you'll be safe"
>"Gul'dan's sitting on top of the Tomb of Sargeras with a slingshot, and will sling fel-infused boogers at whoever tries to get in the way of his view of DHs failing at everything"
>"Khadgar doesn't want mounts pooping on Dalaran's roofs, the cleaning bills were immense. So he declared the whole of the Broken Isles a no-fly zone, and anyone that tries to get airborne without the aid of a Flight Master gets to count how many Apexis Crystals he has stashed away in his vault, one by one"

>>50121924
Hah. Fair enough

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Do you think people would have liked pandas more if they'd played less of the fluffy peace and harmony and more of the sinister panda triads? I mean we had the Black Market pandas and their mistress in WoW, now apparently we have a crime family in Gadgetzan, in the hearthstone version of the setting.

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Might as well take a poll while we're at it. Who are you with, /tg/? The Grimy Goons, the Kabal or the Jade Lotus?

In the event you were to play a WoWRPG tabletop game with friends set during the Vanilla-ish era, would you rather play Vanilla lore itself, or altered timeline, or Vanilla lore, but new stories?

>>50122653
I think people would have liked them more if they just picked a side.

Anyway can Hearthstone Lore be counted on for anything? I mean whispers of the old gods is a whole "Didn't happen" and even IN the didn't happen universe they have joke cards that: wouldn't really happen even if the didn't happen lore really did happen.

LAYERS of unreliabliness on top of jokeiness.

>>50122710
>I think people would have liked them more if they just picked a side.

I dunno. As things stand, the player pandas are established as basically being mercenaries or individuals who have joined the horde or alliance for their own reasons, which is something different and interesting, added to by Legion's change so that opposing faction pandas can talk to each other.

And I kind of like that, because for once there's a big, inhabited chunk of azeroth that doesn't revolve around the horde and alliance for once. EK is mostly Alliance and the forsaken/belves, Kalimdor is Horde with the nelves, Northrend isn't really home to any sort of civilization any more, and the broken isles are just islands. Pandaria has actual towns and trade routes and organized militaries and so on, and them being able to go "no, fuck off" to the alliance and horde, at least to an extent, helps make the world feel more... i don't know exactly how to express it, more complete? More verisimilitude or something.

Kinda the same feeling that the neutral goblin towns create, like there's stuff going on in the world beyond just what the "main characters" are up to.

Anyway, no, hearthstone isn't reliable at all for the lore. But, since we're on /tg/ and theoretically talking about this stuff for the purposes of rpg campaigns and so on, we're free to think about what we want to include. Besides, there are hints to organized criminal pandas in the main game. The black market, as mentioned, and Taoshi secretly being one of the Shadows of the Uncrowned, for examples.

>>50123021
>I will never have an excuse to incorporate Ragnaros, Lightlord into a campaign

Why even Paladin?

>>50111990
>remove undead
yes
>nuke furries
YEAH
>take out Ironforge
...get out

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>>50122690
the girls in the Kabal are sluttier. So Kabal.

>>50122690
In play? Jade Lotus. I run Rogue.

In flavor? Goons all day. Love me some Mafia families.

>>50124150
So which one has the dick?

>>50120850
>I mean,first off the whole ''legion came to Azeroth for magic'' has long since been dispelled as false.
Not necessarily. Magic can still attract the attention of demons. It's the reason for the creation of the Council of Tirisfal and the Guardian.
>And the ''oh no Arcane magic MIGHT lead to corruption'' is completely invalidated by the Emerald Nightmare fiasco.
How is it invalidated? The Emerald Nightmare happened due to Old God corruption. It could happen to anything and anyone.

>>50121924
WoD was such a shitshow.
>Visit the draenei at the height of their civilisation.
>half the places are burning or on fire.
>Karabor is closed.
The bits we see are so good.

>>50122690
>orc gal
>flapper hairstyle
my dick can't handle this

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>>50107503
>Warcraft
>lore

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>>50124453
>age of sigmar
>lore.

>>50124392
Nothing has ever made me feel as disappointed as WoD did. It could have been the best expansion, but now it's just something everyone pretends doesn't exist. Such a goddamn shame.

>>50124453
Yeah, it's an oxymoron.

>>50126046
>it could have
not really.
What the player did didn't even matter. The entire expansion got a pretty cool draenei character killed and gave us gul'dan to act as a key to summon the legion to azeroth.

>>50121483
Certain specs will get their own version of their class mounts, so maybe Outlaw might get a parrot instead.

Me'dan confirmed not Canon

>>50126275
There's a long list of things Blizzard fucked up with WoD, but the potential for greatness was there. Even something as simple as opening Karabor would have gone a long way.

>>50126330
Thank God

>>50122690
Priest hard control player, so the Kabal.

>>50124294
>How is it invalidated? The Emerald Nightmare happened due to Old God corruption. It could happen to anything and anyone.
Not that anon, but I'd assume the point is that connection to the Emerald Dream makes you extremely suspectible to corruption if the dream is corrupted.

Sure, using too much arcane magic may get you addicted to it, which may cause you to look for a stronger form of magic (like fel) to get your fix. But most mages don't become warlocks so it's hardly inevitable, or even very common, and when it does happen it's more likely due to the mage in question being a huge asshole who only cares about gettign more power than due to iherent corruptive nature of the arcane. Even the blood elves only started using fel instead of arcane when their source of magic was destroyed and they needed to find a replacement. Before that they had been using the arcane for 10 000 years with no problems, and at the end of TBC got the Sunwell fixed and could drop the fel magic (although since Silvermoon has never been updated, it still has those fel crystals all over the place).

With the Emerald Nightmare, on the other hand, if you're connected to the Emerald Dream the Nightmare will pretty much insta-corrupt you, and the more connected to the Dream you are, the easier it is for it to do so. Malfurion couldn't even enter the area where you fight Xavius because he'd ber CORRUPTED.com the moment he'd set a foot there. So druidic magic effectively has a huge security risk, where if anybody manages to corrupt the Emerald Dream, all druids are at the risk of getting insta-corrupted.

>>50127343
I see your point, but I don't think the risk is really that bad. I don't remember the exact timeline, but the Emerald Dream was created very long ago by Freya. I think it was even before the empowering of the Aspects? Basically it's been a long time, yet the Nightmare is the only case of corruption to ever happen to the Dream. I'd say it's about as safe as you can get.

>>50127499
It was safe until the Druids started searching for tentacle porn on Old God infected websites. Now the entire system is fucked.

>they just returned Illidan without any plot-twists.

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>>50126039
>ORIGINAL DESIGN

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>>50128633
>ORIGINAL
>Anything

>>50128761
I think Garithos model painted with the same colours would look more elegant.

>>50127499
I quess it's more of a theoretical risk. Arcane gets you addicted to it, but most of the addicts can still function in a normal society as long as they get their fix, but get fucked if you for some reason can't, and for some the arcane may serve as a gateway drug to harder stuff.

Druidic magic is safe, clean, and has no side effects, but there is a theoretical possibility, even if it's very unlikely, of the source getting corrupted, in which case everything is fucked up. It's a huge but extremely unlikely potential risk vs smaller but far more likely risk that can usually be negated.

It's kind of like if everybody's computers would be connected to one single server that would run all of the software and hold all the data. On the other hand, you could reach your files everywhere, and you wouldn't need a powerful computer because most of the work is handled by the central computer, but if somebody would hack the server, they'd get access to all your data and full control over your computer.
Except them controlling your computer would also make you go crazy and start growing tentacles.

>>50111874
Because it was orchestrated based on intel from SI:7, which had been infiltrated by the Burning Legion in order to lead them into a trap.

>>50110226
>Chicago-style Gadgetzan
>ywn eat a steaming hot 'an 'za

>>50129105
Was that why the Argent Crusade decided to Leeroy Jenkins it up and not wait for the Horde and Alliance to reinforce them?

Watching Tirion try to bubble out of Gul'Dans attack was funny though.

>>50129130
Tirion's VA screaming like he was getting burned alive was genuinely unnerving desu

even marysurion didn't deserve that

>>50129077
It's also worth noting that by the looks of it, a druid has to actually be in the Dream to be corrupted. They are pretty safe outside of it, aside from more direct approaches like when Xavius corrupted Ysera.

>>50112374
so says the SHADOW of Xavius

>>50107503
Way back in the earliest Warcraft fluff, it was mentioned that healing magic works on an equivalent exchange principle, where it restores the target's health by passing their pain to others. The Northshire Abbey clerics mitigate this problem by drawing upon "the soul of humanity itself", so that a person's wounds are divided among the human race as a whole, instead of causing equally severe wounds to another single person. I don't think that has been mentioned since, but I think it's a really neat little setting detail; it's a pretty distinctive take on magical healing that could lead to some interesting plot points.

>>50129275
the earliest bits of the games had a lot of cool fluff that sort of got ignored later. Like human mages creating artificial water elementals because water is the easiest element to control with arcane magic

>>50129245
SILENCE, WORM.

>>50129109
>Cross-board shitposting this early in the day

I normally wouldn't tell someone to go home because he's drunk this early in the day, but then I remembered that /ck/ is chock-full of drunks and alcoholics.

>>50129434
There is nothing wrong with spending your weekends by being wasted desu.

>>50129434
joke's on you, not only am I not drunk, but I work night shift anyway so it's a perfectly acceptable time to drink

>>50111874

Rogue Class Hall campaign revealed the Broken Shore to be a trap for both sides. SI:7 tried to warn everyone, but got captured and DREADLORDED.com'd.

>>50129344
Also their wizard towers had lightning rods built into the walls to keep them from exploding.

>>50129503
"drinking solves all your problems"
-Chen Stormstout

>>50129847
I'm not going to argue with based Panda

>>50120850

No. Night Elves arent directly dependent on moonwells. Suramar elves are directly reliant on insane levels of PURE magic and need it more than food. They are like INSANELY fucked High elves.

High/Blood Elves were addicted but not physically reliant on the arcane. The suramar elves literally turn into zombies if they dont get their daily dose.

>>50130227
>The suramar elves literally turn into zombies if they dont get their daily dose.
Just as Blood Elves if they cannot hold themselves after first consuming magic from living beings.

>>50130227
>High
High elves in Eastern Plaguelands turned into wretched even after Sunwell was restored.

>>50130474
Yeah, though that was apparently due to some sort of cursed object they found.

One thing I will say about Legion is that I like how both the Horde and Alliance recognize the player characters as being apolitical. Even people like Varessa Windrunner who absolutely loathe the Horde are like "I hate Horde but you're still pretty cool" when they run into you.

It's a nice feeling.

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>>50131058
>Mfw I'm an UH DK
>Mfw the two npc reactions to Apocalypse are 'stay the fuck away'
>mfw I feel like pic related

>>50131150
>>mfw I feel like pic related
Useless puppet who serves to one who he hated before?

>>50131150

Its kinda sad how you get almost no reactions to any of the paladin weapons. I noticed far more from the mage stuff, and I haven't even gone through all the leveling stuff yet on the mage.

Only paladin thing of interest is like, 2 random dudes in the class hall.

>"Holy shit, its the highlord!"
>"Man, what a badass."
>"I heard he killed the firelord, Ragnaros.... TWICE!"

>>50131150
>save the temple of elune from the legion
>"We don't want you here. Stay away."
I wanted to hatefuck that PoTM so bad.

>>50131550
>>save the temple of elune from the legion
>>"We don't want you here. Stay away."
>meanwhile everyone's okay with my scepter of sargeras, since destro warlocks literally saved Azeroth

>>50131306
I don't think anybody reacts to the DH artefacts, although that's understandable given how they're both "literally who?" tier. There's some random NPCs that react to DHs in general, though. The priestess of the moon mnetioned by >>50131550 tells you that you better not try doing anything stupid (like eating any nearby skulls of Gul'dan), the druids at Aviana's shrine say your wings are creepy, and one random guy at Neigwary's camp warns his fellow that you can see everything with the DH-vision.

Ok, so, forgive me for the magical realm here, but can worgen-cursed humans reproduce? I assume so, but if so do they produce worgen-cursed children, or pure humans, or does it depend what form the mother is when she delivers? Is there a difference between a feral worgen and a purified worgen?

Another question: originally, waaay back when, Garona was half-orc half human. Then orcs were aliens, and there was a bit of "oh there must have been something like humans on their homeworld", which was then draenei. But then draenei were actually nothing like humans, and we just have to accept the idea that hybridizing an orc and draenei is not only possible (creature descended from earth elementals + space goat alien?) but produces what looks like a mix between an orc and a human, without any draenei features like horns, tail, hooves, forehead ridges, face tentacles, et cetera.

We have to accept that. But, is it still on the table that orcs and humans can hybridize? We know humans and elves can, because there's a half-elf paladin somewhere, he was in Outland for a while and I don't know where he is now.

Who else can interbreed? Are there any other canon hybrids around? You'd think there'd be a few orc-trolls around by now, for example. Or dwarf-gnomes. If orcs and draenei can canonically mix then I'd wonder if you can take anything off the table.

>>50132885
Originally there was quite a lot of time between the opening of the Dark Portal and the First War, during which the orcs launched raids on isolated human settlements but didn't go on a all-out offensive. Garona was born during this time. Then when the timeline got changed, it was explained that she was magically aged to adulthood. And then they made her half-draenei instead of half-human.
There actually ia one other half-draenei orc, Lantressor of the Blade, who shows up in both TBC and WoD. He has the regular orc model, but with an altered skin (his skin tone is sligthly purplish). I think lore-wise he's supposed to have a bit more draenei features, but it's not shown in game due to them not bothering to give him an unique model. I think it was also mentioned somewhere that Garona was magically altered by Gul'dan to make her look more normal, so she wouldn't stand out as much.

>>50132885
>Ok, so, forgive me for the magical realm here, but can worgen-cursed humans reproduce?
Offspring of two cursed humans will be a regular human, Blizz stated that back when Ask CDev was still a thing.

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>>50133072
Rexxar or whatever his name is was half orc half ogre IIRC. Think there's a couple of their kind.

retty sure there's a half-elf pair of twins at the least thanks to Knack writing.

The setting has Dragons, which seem to be able to go halfsies on just about anything either by shapeshifting or Determination.

Even where there isn't direct inbreeding there's clearly some evolutionary alterations like how the Pandaren and the Tuskarr have very similar body types and might have a mutual ancestor. Might still be some viable potential in that fashion, and if so troll/elf mixes, particularly with the Kaldorei and Shaldorei since they haven't changed much since the War of the Ancients.

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>>50133465
So I'm in-game right now, leveling in Northrend.

There are Vrykul houses here, towns and such, but there's cobwebs all over them.

The Vrykul are still here, they're living there, there's bedding and furnishings, and a pot of what was going to be this vrykul's lunch before I killed him for some rope he didn't have.

But there's still cobwebs in this clearly lived in space. What would make these huge giants leave cobwebs alone?

Theory: The Vrykul remember and fear the Nerubians as boogymen of their time.

>Travel too far into Dragonblight and the Ground might open up underneath you. Lose your footing and you'll never see the daylight again.
>Young ones, even the dear and uncorrupted ones, taken in the night or caught wandering in webs.
>Lone hunters with stories of fleeing from ambushes.
>Horror stories from survivors, escaped the kingdom with knowledge of what worse still things dwel beneath the spiderfolks' kingdom.

Even now, after the Lich King subjugated Azjol Nerub and liberated the Vrykul from their ancestral enemy, they worry at every arachnid, too scared to strike at it for fear of finding themselves splayed on a web, looking up at their ancient foe and knowing that if they do not kill you horribly for their own reasons, they will give you to something worse below for their's.

>>50131669
If you use spectral sight at Nesingwary camp,you can see one of the guys there is a disguised demon and kill him for order resources.

>>50134788
Reminds me of how Hunters could use Track Dragonkin to identify Lady Prestor in Vanilla.

>>50131669
The temple guards at the Temple of Elune freak out at the presence of fel-blades

>>50130665
I still interesting why the fuck they seeking such artifact.

>>50133661
the vrykul have been sleeping for thousands of years and are literally just waking up as the Alliance and Horde expeditions reach Northrend

>>50131550
>don't bring the chill of death into this holy place
bitch I have a valid warrant, fuck off

>>50135785
They're elves, no matter the situation they're guaranteed to take the worst possible option

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>>50135785
The leader thought it could help with their mana addiction.

>>50130474
>>50130665
>>50135785
God, that was such a stupid fucking asspull, and I just know they did it to avoid having an actual Alliance presence in EPL.

Cataclysm really was "Shitting on Elves: The Expansion". Yay Kosak.

>>50131150
I've only heard the Priestess of Elune say something about the Frost artifact. But I guess nobody knows Frostmourne was involved?

>>50136763
There was no reasons for it, Sunwell already was restored.

>>50107503
WoW killed it.

So...now with Sylvanas leading the Horde, what's to happen? Are we gonna get some sort of morally questionable subtle type politics or some shit? Also gotta give props to Blizzard considering that even though since WoW most of the lore has been meh, they do a good job of making Sylvanas look suspicious without ultimately actually being responsible for any directly evil shit (Wrathgate, Valkyr, Broken Shore, etc.)

>>50111965
>I mean, yeah, they were still gonna get caught in the trap and things probably would have ended worse for it
You answered it yourself. Not only Sylvanas knew that things would've been worse off if they went all in, she also got a good look on the Alliance side, too since she DIRECTLY HELPED Varian out.

>>50138949
>Morally Questionable
Very

>Subtle
Not at all.

Have you played through Stormheim yet? Sylvanas' entire story there is 'I'm going to enslave a godly being in order to create an infinite army of Val'kyr, even though that godly being is one of the ones we ABSOLUTELY want to be on our side to fight the Legion'.

>>50138949
>So...now with Sylvanas leading the Horde, what's to happen?
Alliance revenge, it's already started in stormheim. As for the Horde, they are doomed to be cannon folder for Sylvanas immortality.

>>50138949
> Sylvanas is about as hamfisted as Arthas was in Wrath. If two people were ever more deserving of each other it would be those two.

>>50111943
there something i dont know yet?

>>50139383
Just a morally questionable Naaru that's probably a demon in disguise.

>>50111990
>can simply tell you sylvanas is a whore, every single person except filthy stiffies agree
I have no stiffie and like her.

Guess your argument has been proven wrong. It happens to the best of us, anon.

>>50139144
>>50139175
Stormheim is just Sylvanas doing the same thing she has since Cataclysm: ensure the survival of her people.

Are the means kinda fucked up? Hell yeah they are, but at the same time she doesn't have much of a choice either. Again, very suspicious as is typical of Sylvanas but ultimately not all out evil. For someone who does often seem to have a "her faction>>>>rest of the horde" thing she's nowhere near as bad with as say...Garrosh was.

>>50139360
Nah. After Broken Shore Sylvanas was bound to become relevant this expansion. Same with Genn, too.

>>50139410
i see where your coming from it does seem fishy guilt tripping you left and right, but didnt velen confirm what it was?

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>>50135785
>>50136600
>>50137364

>pictured: what a death knight hears every day

Will people ever stop arguing about Sylvanas?

>>50139501
>ensure the survival of her people.
Lolno, she wants valkyrs to protect herself from the void since she have only 4 valkyrs left (which means only 1 resurection).

>>50139501
>Ensure the survival of her people

Hoooo no. You know why Sylvanas got Val'kyr in the first place? She killed herself, then realized how fucked she is if she were to die. She considers 'her people' to be her barrier from getting anally fucked in the afterlife. She wants the Val'kyr because the more of them she has, the more repsawns she gets.

She does not give two fucking shits about her people if they're not putting themselves between her and death.

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>>50139550
Yeah.

When she dies.

>>50139593
>>50139600
But she needs the Val'kyr to be able to resurrect other dead people to make more Forsaken, too though, right? Yeah I get that she's supposed to be going to like superhell or whatever if she's actual dead this time, but the Val'kyr are beneficial in raising more Forsaken, too though, no?

>>50139550
Undead have been the edgy playable race since the old days, Sylvanas is now Horde Leader, and the big events happening right now centering around Horde characters is about her. Pretty sure it ain't gonna end soon.

>>50139513
>implying Kil'jaeden wouldn't know exactly how to fool the one being he knows best

>>50139687
>but the Val'kyr are beneficial in raising more Forsaken, too though, no?
Yep, but she doesn't care about her people, forsakens for her is just bullwark between her and death.

>>50139687
They are, and she's gotten more ruthless about raising them and ensuring total domination too. She wants an army of literal meat shields, and becoming Warchief did nothing but give her and even bigger one.

Why do the Forsaken care about surviving? From Vanilla up until WoTLK, everything pointed to the idea that being Forsaken was shit. You're stuck in a rotting corpse that's physically numb unless you use the Light a lot, in which case you can feel pain and your own decayed flesh a bit, you have no positive emotions beyond the occasional malevolent chuckle, and the only reason you have to do anything is to stick it to that prick Arthas, to keep those damn stormwind kids off your lorderlawn, and because you have nothing better to do.

I mean, Sylvanas I get, because she did sudoko after Icecrown and decided undeath was better than what she got out of that, but that doesn't apply to all undead, does it? I mean they don't get whatever the proper afterlife is but the impression I got (and correct me if I'm not up on all the latest retcons) is that undead who double die get stuck in the shadowlands, which is just a kind of eternal wandering limbo. What do the Forsaken have to "live" for? Why are they bothering?

Once the Lich King was dead, that kind of should have been it for the Forsaken, they should have just all buried each other and gone to sleep.

>you will never see the alternate timeline where exactly this happened, and lordaeron was gradually repopulated by elves, forest trolls and humans, rebuilding civilization and going back about their business, only occasionally pausing when they hear someone knocking from under their feet and shouting up at them to keep the noise down.

>>50139633
Pffft. Yeah. Right.

Tell me anon, have people stopped arguing about Arthas?

>>50139747
>What do the Forsaken have to "live" for?
For their queen.

>>50139735
>>50139744
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/short-story/leader-story/sylvanas-windrunner#7

Is she not this Sylvanas anymore? Is this still even canon?

So, since the guy actually shows up in Legion, are all the Steam Romance novels canonically true stories?

>>50140192

If the steamy romance novels were all true stories, it would frankly make the setting a much more interesting place.

For one thing, it'd mean Madam Goya is literally a madam, and you can get a lot more than items on the black market.

>>50139718
Kil'jaeden is such a stalker. He comes off as a guy who's furious that a girl rejected him and now he wants revenge.

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If you had to word-for-word steal/copypasta any one major organization (Class Orders, Alliance/Horde, Dragonflights, etc.) from WoW and put it in your setting, which one would you use?

Pre-Wrathgate Bolvar unrelated.

>>50140911
I like the concept of Old Gods. They'd be alright for something Lovecraft-lite.

Gilneas is pretty rad too.

>>50139787
What do people argue over about Arthas?

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She's a bad character like Garithos. Is she a raid boss now?

>>50141967

Whether he was a good boi who dindu nuffin.

For the record, WC3 established Arthas as a bad egg from the start who's hidden nature was exposed from Ner'zhul's plotting.

>>50141990
Purging Stratholme was the right thing to do, Arthas really didn't descent to darkness until he burned the boats in a fit of rage.

>>50141990
>>50142025
You are both so very wrong

>>50142025

> Purging Stratholme was the right thing to do

Maybe. But Arthas botched it up from how he was quick to go full burning and canned Uther instead of compromising.

>Arthas really didn't descent to darkness until he burned the boats in a fit of rage.

He was sore about Uther having to come save him in Hearthglen. Reign of Chaos' manual says Arthas was torn between light and darkness. It also says Ner'zhul looked for dark souls to join his Scourge.

>>50142062

>ignoring the RoC manual

>>50142094
>compromise
>yes uther. Let us argue while my people turn into undead with their souls eaten by a demon.

>>50142094
His problems with Uther go back to the first missions. Underneth it all he was pissed off that he felt that Uther hadn't taken things seriously at first and then when they finally did take off, he had the nerve to make light of the whole situation after Arthas had watched a town turn into zombies.

He wasn't some innocent lamb, but he certainly wasn't evil to begin with either. Just a man who was put into a position where he felt like it was all up to him and ended up cracking under the pressure.

>>50111945
That Wolf-Bird thing the hunters get is dope as fuck though

>>50109109
>>50110431
>>50110513
>>50114262
>>50114498
I swear I've seen this exact comment chain before in here.

>>50142107
Arthas wasn't inherently bad. He was just impulsive, and Ner'zhul cleverly manipulated his impulsive nature in order to make him do progressively worse things for the sake of justice, each step looking justifiable in the face of the previous step

It's a classic "fall from grace" storyline, you can't have a classic fall from grace storyline with a main character who starts as a prick

>>50142246
These threads all go in circles. There's the odd bit of new stuff discussed, sometimes campaign ideas are thrown around. Maybe some history talk.

Most of the time it's one of the three staples: Sylvanas, Arthas or Kosak and post cataclysm.

>>50142343

Ner'zhul brought out what was already there. Don't forget TFT's Undead Campaign where the curse of Frostmourne leaves Arthas as he goes which makes him act less like a big scary conqueror and more like his adventuring Paladin days (see cracking jokes).

>>50142451
I think Arthas after Frostmourne is pretty different to Arthas prior to Stratholme

Besides, by that point he'd already crossed so many lines that there was no going back, only way left for him was to keep moving forward

>>50111543
Kil'jaeden confirmed to have legs

>>50111944
An Arcane Platform. Something Mages have been missing for a while. I genuinely do not understand the hate for it

>>50142557
we knew that since wc3 dingus.

>>50140911
The Ebon Blade

good factions of always-chaotic-evil beings are cool and underused

>>50143108
To be fair, while the scourge is mostly CE mindless members, most of the leadership in the Scourge by the time of Arthas was LE or NE, with CE members being the exception.

>>50142650
Probably because it is a remodel/reskin of the Lorewalkers mount (Disc of the Red Flying Cloud, or something like that).

>>50142465

> I think Arthas after Frostmourne is pretty different to Arthas prior to Stratholme

RoC Undead Campaign Arthas sure. But TFT Undead Campaign Arthas is more... alive.

He cracks jokes. He actually talks to Kel'thuzad and Anub'arak like he's glad to have them as comrades. He's more silly overall. He's more like the man he was as a Paladin.

>>50126341
>Tfw you rolled Alliance and tolerate human scum just to see Karabot

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>>50137364
I think you're on the something. Cataclysm and MoP also took a steaming shit on Night Elves.Mezten even said that the Kaldorei were getting a badass moment, only for Kosak to write them as weaklings who submit to their human overlords.

Perhaps someone in blizzard just hates elves at a manchild level.

>>50144323
Yes

Kosak

>>50142451
Arthas in TFT is my favorite Arthas. He's hilarious. I really wish they'd kept that campier part of him around in WotLK instead of the generic evil overlord we got.

>>50144101
Out of TFT campaign I always got that Arthas, Kel'Thuzad and Anub'arak were very bro-tier among themselves, with Sylvanas hating Arthas for personally killing her, and the rebel undead only doing so because of Dreadlord influence.

Arthas does run into some crypt fiends who simply want to be loyal to him and he welcomes them.

I liked this friendly Scourge before Arthas suddenly became a mix of Commander Cobra and Skeletor, Kel'Thuzad was coerced into servitude, and Anub'arak secretly hates them all.

If Anub'arak had always hated that, he'd have been a bit hurt at the "Traitor King" remark rather than just ignore it and keep banting with Arthas.

>>50144919
Who, me?

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>>50136149

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>>50141973
>anti-Horde
>bad
kys

>>50144919
Oh fuck off,sure Kel'Thuzad being coerced is an asspull,but I got the idea that Anub'Arak hated being Scourge from the get go.

When Arthas makes an assumption that Anub'Arak agreed to serve in exchange for power,while Anub bitterly remarks that ''agreed'' implies he had a choice.

So it's all black and white,he got killed and ressed as a Scourge servant from the get go.


He's literally Spider Sylvanas, but without having ever been freed so he we can see him openly be vengeful about it.

>>50145492
>entire planet under siege by demons
>THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME TO PURSUE MY REVENGE BY STRIKING AT THE OPPOSITE FACTION'S FUCKING WARCHIEF
AND REIGNITE RED VS BLUE

This dumb little shit isn't just pursuing his vengeance on Sylvanas,he is pursuing it while she is currently of the highest importance to the horde and an infinite army of demons is about to buttfuck his entire planet.

He could have tried to strike at Sylvanas at ANY point before this and not been a huge idiot,but no.

>>50145555
Well, really the blame lies on Vol'jin, for putting forward FUCKING SYLVANAS

>>50145555
>Tfw the Horde player character is one or two people in line away from being the next Warchief

>>50145573

But the Loa! Think of the Loa!

>>50145615
>Legion is the last expansion
>at the end, everyone with a max level Horde character is given a free copy of Warcraft 4 because he's now the warchief, while Alliance players have to buy it because they're still under Anduin

>>50145494
Not true. That remark is from a short story in preparation for Naxxramas, and he tells that to Kel'Thuzad.

Anub'arak is friendly with Arthas all the time. The fact he's still loyal during TFT, where the rebellious undead being free is a plot point, proves he really was loyal.

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>>50145644
>Warcraft 4

>>50145644
Free copy of the first of WC4's 6 episodes. Later ones he has to buy on his own (next one is only $60 if your preorder now and get an exclusive DLC mission called "Revenge of the Warchief xx666darthdeathshadows2001xxx").

>>50145650
There were no rebellious undead in Northrend though,because that was the seat of LK's power and Arthas could never have put up a fight against the Illidari forces with an army of free,willing undead.


It was only the Lordaeron undead,who were far too removed from the LK's now dwindling power that ever gained freedom en masse.


Also,people misread that story as ''KT hates serving the Scourge'' instead of ''While he was still mortal and had no clue what the Scourge really was,KT once tried to pussy out''.

>>50145748
>Also,people misread that story as ''KT hates serving the Scourge'' instead of ''While he was still mortal and had no clue what the Scourge really was,KT once tried to pussy out''.
this. he tried to pussy out, but the LK made him go through with it and he realized it wasn't that bad. That shit literally happens all the time to everyone

>At the hour of her third death,she will usher in our coming.

Probably refers to Sylvanas.

No,Vol'jin heard from whispers of the ''Loa'' that Sylvanas had to be made Warchief.

Being made Warchief has apparently awoken some weird responsibillity in Sylvannas, since she's now extended her ''We must ensure the survival of our race and a future for undead children'' thing to the entire Horde.

What if the Old Gods were the ones to plant the whispers in Vol'jin's ears? So they could position Sylvannas into somehow unleashing them upon the world.

>From the earth,he draws strength. Our earth. Our strength.

Could refer to Loa being spirits of the land,and Vol'jin being a shadowhunter.

Shadow maigc is also associated with Old Gods.

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>>50145633
because no one was ever deceived by what they thought were benevolent spirits just before the legion fuck their planet

>>50145846
> Implying Sylvanas won't have her redemption.
> Implying she won't sacrifice her last valkyrs, either to resurrect one of her sisters, sisters' child or really anyone important.
> Or even free them for their own sake.
> All before willingly sacrificing herself knowing what's awaiting her. Walking straight to hell to save the world.
It will happen, you know it in your heart.

>>50145846
Sylvanas has already died three times. Once to Arthas, second to suicide, and third to Ghodfrey

>>50124179
>one

Oh, to be so innocent and naive...

>>50129162
Poor Tirion didn't read the patch notes and thought he still had his bubble in Ret

Where exactly does Sylvanas go when she dies anyway? It doesn't seem like the usual afterlife.

>>50145615
Do we really want the position, though?
Thrall was warchief for three expansions (venilla, TBC, Wrath), Garrosh for two, Vol'jin for one (not counting him being declared warchieft right at the end of MoP). If this keeps up, Sylvanas will be killed off halfway into Legion, and by the time the PC would get to become the warchief they'd probably die within a day or so (at which point the title is prsumably given to the next player in line).

>>50137364

And Legion is currently "Elvish masterrace: The Expansion"

Where are the tauren/troll/worgen druids in Val'sharrah?

Why are 3 of the 5 zones related to elf content?

WHY MUST EVERY VERSION OF ELF SHOW UP

WHERE IS THE LEGION WE'RE SUPPOSED TO FIGHT BLIZZ

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>>50145492
>worgen don't look like that in-game

>>50147239
Blizzard can't change the player models because plenty of people like them the way they are. Hell, a lot of people got butt-hurt over the new models, even though they are light-years better.

>>50142062
Prove it. It was even the paladinly thing to do. You're saving souls from eternal torment and you're reducing the hordes you'll have to fight - thereby preventing even more innocent Death.

>>50145748
>>50145823

Kel'thuzad's backstory in WC3 established him as curious about Necromancy, quiting the Kirin Tor, heading to Northrend after getting called by Ner'zhul, is quickly interested by the Undead he sees, and strikes a partnership with the Lich King without any coercion on Ner'zhul's part. Shoving in a bit where Ner'zhul points a gun to to Kel'thuzad's head is unneeded and misses the point that the Lich embraced his path of undeath before he even reached Northrend.

Demon Hunters comes off as much edgier than Death Knights.


But average DH vs average DK, who wins? Somebody claimed DK because undead and thus feels no pain. Also anti-magic.

>>50148278
DH are basically angstier version of warlocks that thinks that they are hot shit for having demon enema.

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>>50148278
DKs if anything have an edge (hue) in endurance. They are already dead, and don't sleep.

Other than that, spec probably has a bigger impact. I can see a Blood DK and Vengeance DH fighting basically forever since both specs are based around self-healing. Havoc is the ultimate AoE spec, so I'd imagine a unholy DK is is serious trouble around one, plus the meta form with self-healing can solo tanking-tier elites. Frost could freeze and burst Havoc down though.

How come DKs are angstier than even Illidan?

Sure in the expanded universe Illidan is broody and whiney,but in WC3 and TFT he took it like a man whenever people basically shat all over his efforts to do anything.

>>50148932
Do you mean DK or DH?

>>50149707
Shit,yeah,I meant DH.

>>50149958
It's amazing how whiny they are.

>I've sacrificed everything, what have you given?

Bitch, please.

>>50150386
It's even more amazing if you're a DH.

>I've sacrificed everything, what have you given?
>Yeah i'm going to need you to get off my ship,you're fired.

>>50150444
By DH law he's obviously leader now because he's sacrificed Everything+1.

>>50148584
vengence would very slowly beat down blood because they do more damage and have better healing throughput, but blood can't burst well enough to take advantage of the health difference

>>50111945
>warlocks get another green horse
Fuck you, Blizzard.

>>50152556
Oh don't bitch. You've had a class mount since vanilla.

>>50111921
it allegedly changes color based on spec too, so people don't have to do the ICC meta-achievments for good DK mounts anymore