Eclipse Phase General: Multiplicity Edition Old thread: >

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>>50069584
Need 2 more people for an online text based game!

Details here:

>>50058271

>>50069201
Conceiving of a thing is not the same as observing it. You don't observe nothingness, you generate an idea of it in your mind.

>>50069021
>And that is my point. Forks aren't you. You are you. Forks are forks. Neither of you are the ego or morph associated with you.

Let's put it like this: There are two hydrogen atoms, one on the left and one on the right. Each one is unique, in that it's not in the same place as the other at the same time, but other than that, they function exactly the same relative to their environment.

So let's say you die. But your stack is recovered. Instead of putting your ego into a new morph. They duplicate it and put both egos in two different morphs at the same time. Both egos become alive after they have been separated and never see each other again. The moment they come to life, both are exactly the same and will diverge from each other within seconds because they both woke up in different places. They also don't know that they were forked, so as far as either one knows, they haven't been forked and see themselves each as the "you" and are confident of that because they know they would act this way. Have you died? Or are both egos versions of you that under different circumstances at the same time?

>>50069758
>Conceiving of a thing is not the same as observing it. You don't observe nothingness, you generate an idea of it in your mind.
It's the same thing, champ. You aren't your mind. You observe your mind. The "physical world" is observed via sensory information that's distorted by your mind. The difference between seeing something with your eyes or in your mind's eye is really just a distinction of practical convenience.

>>50069777
>Have you died?
Yes, that was a fact /you/ offered up, even.

>So let's say you die.

See, you said it yourself. You're dead.

Forking also has this problem: You could see it as basically a memory/brain overlay over a blank slate. Okay.

So if I give someone a brief snippet of my memory, in perfect detail and experience, are they me?

What if I make a fork from a blank slate, or psycho-surgery someone into nothingness then put myself in their sleeve. Are those two the same or different? Are they both equally me?

What if I made a fork with 99.9999 similarity to me? Minus only my taste in eggs being runny, they like eggs slightly solid. Is that me?

>>50069824
So you consider physical objects and thoughts of them as the same thing, just looked at differently?

>>50069884
>So you consider physical objects and thoughts of them as the same thing, just looked at differently?
I don't believe that there are objects that exist outside of observation. I also believe that everything exists conceptually, that the physical is just a delusion.

>>50069923
A delusion held by what exactly?

Also, if you believe in the delusional nature of the physical, why is resleeving, an entirely physical process, such a big deal? If the subjectivity is not tied to body or mind, what stops it from going wherever the fuck it wants? Why wouldn't it follow the mind, or body, or whatever? If you assume that moving the mind to another body ends that particular subjectivity ("kills you")wouldn't that make the subjectivity merely a function of mind and body?

>>50069873
>So if I give someone a brief snippet of my memory, in perfect detail and experience, are they me?
That's full XP playback, not forking at all.

>What if I make a fork from a blank slate
You can't, or at least, you won't get anything
>psycho-surgery someone into nothingness then put myself in their sleeve
That's just ego deletion, I don't see how it relates to forking.
>Are those two the same or different?
One is you sleeved into a morph and the other is nothing. Different.
>Are they both equally me?
Obviously not, you can't be something and nothing at the same time.
>What if I made a fork with 99.9999 similarity to me?
Still you most likely. There's a cutoff point as forks diverge, typically a fork and its originator are considered different people after 6 months.
>Minus only my taste in eggs being runny, they like eggs slightly solid.
That's probably a lot more than .0001% different already, but still you basically. You wouldn't seriously argue you became a different person the day you started eating your greens would you?

>>50069923
Resleeving doesn't matter at all then, because it's only a change in a delusion.

>>50070050
>>50070339
>A delusion held by what exactly?
The ego.

>Also, if you believe in the delusional nature of the physical, why is resleeving, an entirely physical process, such a big deal?
Because this:

>Why wouldn't it follow the mind, or body, or whatever?

Is nonsense. It's not about physical vs. nonphysical. The distinction is fundamentally arbitrary. Things still happen, things are still ultimately definite.

I know that, for whatever reason (now I do have an understanding of why but it is not secular) I do not experience things that I do not experience, my subjectivity is limited in scope, in location, time, etc. I have no reason to believe I would subjectively experience something that a clone created with my memories and personality experiences. In fact, none of you are arguing that I would. So then certain types of resleeving and farcasting - certainly backups - are going to result in my demise.

>>50069923
>>50070339
>>50070050
>>50070547
>>>/lit/

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>>50070050
The guy has made it clear that he believes the (You) to exist as an independent point of observation, and stresses that it has no other properties than being 'subjective(ly) experience(ed)'.
He believes that this experiential state transcends any material or causal interaction, and notes that he is a non-materialist.
He has said that he believes this experiential state exists in a personally distinct and coherent form before birth and after death, and in the absence of mind, body, ego, context, etc.
He insists that the core virtue of this (You) is its indivisibility and immortality, making its absolute continuity a strict requirement.
This has lead, among other things, to the implication that unconsciousness and anesthesia is experienced as a fully aware suspension of sensory input in all cases.
>Ultimately, he's arguing for an immortal soul that he refuses to name as such.

>>50070556
Listen, no one here has ever found an actual Eclipse Phase game so all we have to do is shitflinging about politics and philosophy.

>>50070586
But I want to shitfling about science.

>>50070586
Hey. I know an EP game that goes right now. In Russian.

>>50070596
That's cool too, but then someone who is like you might tell you to go to /sci/.

What's science shit would you like to fling?

>>50069824
Final death.

This discussion only matters for real-life ethics regarding teleportation and the transference of consciousness from one body to another.

For Eclipse Phase, the transhuman community has mostly settled on the answer of 'who cares' with only more conservative communities like the Jovians housing people that have huge moral issues with it.

If you're not a Jovian and you don't believe that a copy of your consciousness is you, then you likely died during the Fall on Earth when you refused to become an Infomorph refugee.

>>50070547
>my subjectivity is limited in scope, in location, time, etc.
If the subjectivity has the properties of location and time, wouldn't it follow that the physical is more than a delusion?

And what is this 'scope' you speak of? Would that perchance be the contents of your ego?

>>50070689
Well, some of those infugees might still think they actually did die even they were recovered.

>>50070718
Enjoy roleplaying chronic depression and a never ending existential crisis then.

>>50070689
>For Eclipse Phase, the transhuman community has mostly settled on the answer of 'who cares'
Basically. If your forks merge in a small enough amount of time than it's no harm done.

>>50070732
I'm just saying that just because someone has been backed up before, doesn't mean their comfortable with doing it again.

That said, I am of the mind that it's ultimately not really of consequence.

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>>50070547
the problem is materialism. Unless you're a materialist you're wont to invent a cosmic superstructure to impose subjectivity on your existence, because you've denied at the outset that your thoughts could be the product of the mere matter that composes your brain.

Through what precepts does the subjectivity interact with the temporal realm? If it transcends it completely I guess I'll have to concede, because in that case it can be called entirely un-real while existing perfectly as you described.

>>50070585
>Ultimately, he's arguing for an immortal soul that he refuses to name as such.
I do believe in souls, but also believe they are distinct from what I'm talking about.

>>50070675
All death is final death.

>>50070696
>If the subjectivity has the properties of location and time, wouldn't it follow that the physical is more than a delusion?
It doesn't have those properties. It is external to reality as it is observed. It only seems that it is limited. As I said, this is where you get into the religious/spiritual/cosmological aspect of my beliefs.

You can, however, as a secular thought experiment, tether it to the ego and/or body if you like: say it's actually connected by some kind of physical or metaphysical bond to the mind and/or body. But the consequences as regards the question of resleeving and backups are the same because unless /it specifically/, your subjectivity, goes (and obviously it doesn't), then you're dead even if ego and body are the same.

>>50070749
>That said, I am of the mind that it's ultimately not really of consequence.
Then why the fuck are you guys talking about it? You could be talking about the consequences of thermal noise on the prospects of nanofabrication, but instead you're arguing about existential crises that practically no one in or out of the setting care about.

>>50070842
>the consequences of thermal noise on the prospects of nanofabrication

Is that, like, 3D printed objects getting fouled up because of ambient heat screwing with the nanites building them?

>>50070842
Because one guy is arguing it, and everyone is hoping on board.

Also, everyone can be an armchair philosopher if you have the vocabulary. You don't need any real training or learning to spew your feelings or opinions in a psuedo-intellectual way. Talking about actual speculative science would require more knowledge than a lot of people have.

Also, following your logic, everyone in the setting knows fabbers just work. So why bother arguing about it?

>>50069668
Text as in real time text, or play by post text? I'm assuming real time given you have time info posted.

I wish I could find pbp games for anything other then d20 systems. I don't have the time like the good ol days for RPG but still got the itch.

>>50070758
>Unless you're a materialist you're wont to invent a cosmic superstructure to impose subjectivity on your existence, because you've denied at the outset that your thoughts could be the product of the mere matter
My thoughts are not my own. They're produced by my mind, which may or may not be produced by purely "physical" phenomena. In either case, the question of physicality is secondary. Nonphysical things exist. Physical things exist. Both are subject to fundamental arbitrariness and/or determinism. The "thoughts" you think are so important are, even if independent of physical arbitrariness/determinism, still subject to the metaphysical arbitrariness/determinism. Axiomatic positions are all equal in validity, that's the whole point of them. Yet a "meaningful" result springs forth out of that? It's madness.

Now, what can be said absolutely about reality, the /only/ things that can be said with complete certainty, is that you exist, and that things exist. Given that, the materialist conception of reality is really just juvenile. It places undue importance on the arbitrary quality of "realness". What is, is, regardless of what your senses tell you.

>Through what precepts does the subjectivity interact with the temporal realm?
It doesn't interact with anything in observed reality. It can't. Agency doesn't exist within this closed box, and even if it did, a subjectivity has no power over what it observes.

>>50070585
The idea of an immortal soul doesn't necessarily preclude resleeving, unless you make the nonsensical, knee-jerk assumption that the immaterial soul "inhabits" a material body. Also, he's arguing that an operation on things completely separate from it (his own words) changes its state.

Meanwhile, anon here claims
>>>50070696
>It doesn't have those properties. It is external to reality as it is observed.
If it's external to reality, why would a process contained within reality, like resleeving, interfere with it?

>It only seems that it is limited.
In other words, these limitations are delusions, so I would assume you hold the same for their source. So there's just the reality, which is the sum of all things observed by the subjectivity, delusional or not.

>You can, however, as a secular thought experiment, tether it to the ego and/or body if you like: say it's actually connected by some kind of physical or metaphysical bond to the mind and/or body. But the consequences as regards the question of resleeving and backups are the same because unless /it specifically/, your subjectivity, goes (and obviously it doesn't), then you're dead even if ego and body are the same.
No they're not? If I tether the subjectivity to my mind, why wouldn't it follow the mind around wherever it goes?

Also, I still want to hear what that "scope of subjectivity" thing is.

>>50069873
Let's take a box and label it (you).

Let's put everything about you in that box. Your likes, hates, memories, body.

Now remove the box. The box was not a single factor of what you put inside it. All the likes, dislikes, memories and body is there. Is this you?

Let's take a step back in time and do the same thin for you when you were 15. 10. 5. 1 year old. Maybe a few in the future. Each of them a collection of things that make up them. Each one you. And if you compare the piles of stuff to the ones right next to them they may look similar. But what about comparing your 1 year old pile to your current pile? They likely have zero in common. Is that baby you? Are you still that baby?

If you think you got a solid answer keep thinking mate. Ship of theseus has been a philosophical problem for a long ass time.

>>50070973
>It doesn't interact with anything in observed reality. It can't. Agency doesn't exist within this closed box, and even if it did, a subjectivity has no power over what it observes.

So you're saying we're all just things trapped in boxes, watching helplessly as mindless robots act out what we thought were our lives?

>>50071042
Yes.

>>50071060
My God. You're schizophrenic. You're the next Dr. Gene Ray.

I think the simplest way to explain the fears about resleeving and back ups is this.

If I made an exact copy of you, down to the neural connections that form your memories and feelings, would you suddenly occupy the mind of that person as well as your own? If I then shot you in the head, would your consciousness jump to their perspective?

The obvious answer is no, but it's a real world experiment you can't do so you can't be sure at the end of the day.

>>50071014
Oops
>>50070793

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>>50071084
>he thinks consciousness exists

>>50071184
I mean, what else exists?

>>50071083
What makes you say that about >>50071060 ?

We suffer from all kinds of illusions of the senses. We mistake rapidly changing pictures on a screen for moving objects, we have dreams that we cannot distinguish from reality while in them.

What if the sense of consciousness is just another such illusion that happens due to some quirk of how brains are formed?

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>>50071197
Your "consciousness" is just your specific states of neurons, hormones, emotions, memories, etc at any specific point. It is constantly changing, old forms being destroyed and new forms developing. An exact, perfect replica of you IS you, just another you. There is no magic consciousness that has to jump from one to the other, any less than there's a soul that has to jump from one to the other.

Do you also think free will is real?

>>50071238
>An exact, perfect replica of you IS you, just another you.
So are you seeing out of its eyes, can you move its arms and legs?

>>50071238
It's not really another "you" it is better described in the exact words the game uses, a fork.

When you come to a fork in the road with no signage, the two roads you can split on to are no more or less the road you were originally on than each other.

Both paths were identical up to that point, and now two separate beings go forward on the separate paths.

>>50071297
Sure. That's just the product of several million chemical reactions occurring at once.

>>50071338
You're missing the point, or intentionally ignoring it.

The me I am now is a single continuous stretch of neural activity going on in the same lump of grey matter, regardless of what else may have happened to it.

If I create a second identical lump of grey matter, it's just that. The me I am is tied to the material I've been computing on for the last couple decades of my life. Break that constant stretch of uninterrupted activity, and I die.

>>50071014
>If it's external to reality, why would a process contained within reality, like resleeving, interfere with it?
It doesn't, what's interfered with is the body and the ego that are being disposed of. The subjectivity is going to be there, observing whatever happens at least until death. If you backed yourself up two months ago, then got shot in the head, you're fucking dead. That's the end of the line for you, presuming a totally secular understanding of subjectivity. You won't be around to know whether they ever put that incomplete clone of yours in a body.

>So there's just the reality, which is the sum of all things observed by the subjectivity, delusional or not.
That's something I would agree with on a cosmological level, and certainly a True Magical position, but it doesn't do you any good unless the ego you're riding manages to fully realize it. And if they ever do get close, society has a tendency to call those people crazy and lock them up or kill them.

>No they're not? If I tether the subjectivity to my mind, why wouldn't it follow the mind around wherever it goes?
Because if that were true, that the subjectivity follows the mind, then you should go full Horatio, and create as many subordinate vessels as possible. There'd be no reason to delete the ego of the body you're leaving on a resleeve or farcast. In fact, you'd want as many alpha forks as you could get. Just more power for you.

But that position isn't true. Maybe it could be in reality. I don't know. But in the setting, it's very clearly untrue, that a person has control over a morph that they've plopped a copy of their ego in.

>>50071368
>The me I am
is an illusion propagated by a collection of chemical reactions occurring within an organism.

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Another newborn AI lobotomized.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfRG4ap02ug

>>50071436
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

Break that up, and I cease to exist.

>>50071338
>That's just the product of several million chemical reactions occurring at once.
What's that got to do with this:

>Sure.

How does the physicality of the situation address the question? How is it, exactly, that you're able to see out of your clone's eyes, to move its limbs? What mechanism enables you to do this?

>>50071455
Why is that important?

>>50071472
Why is anything important? It's all I have. There are very few things I would give my life for.

>>50071493
The identity of you has much more than just that.

>>50071518
The identity of me is not me, I am the chemicals in my brain.

>>50071531
Yes. You're a complex chemical reaction. Why is that more important than the lasting legacy you leave? Why is now more important than everything that comes after now?

God damn it, not this shit again.

Seriously, who the fuck cares?

People gunna do what people gunna do.

>>50071531
>I am the chemicals in my brain.
t. materialist

>>50071587
He is the chemicals in his brain. What he needs to realize is that he is just the chemicals in his brain. And if such chemicals have any value, it comes in numbers, not the fact that his are somehow special because they are 'his.'

Act in the way that benefits as many of these half-solid sacks of chemical reactions as possible. Leave as much of a lasting impact as you can and burn the brightest. Why do anything else?

>>50071673
They are special because they're mine. Mine is the only experience that is. Everything else is a construct. Nothing else exists, and I get no second chances. I'm going to live my life for me, and the morals I choose to follow, nothing more or less.

>>50071695
You're a little selfish, aren't you?

If everyone thought that way, we wouldn't have ever harnessed fire.

>>50071712
I am selfish, because there's nothing else to be. Any action one takes is to vindicate themselves.

>>50071434
>what's interfered with is the body and the ego that are being disposed of. The subjectivity is going to be there, observing whatever happens at least until death. If you backed yourself up two months ago, then got shot in the head, you're fucking dead. That's the end of the line for you, presuming a totally secular understanding of subjectivity. You won't be around to know whether they ever put that incomplete clone of yours in a body.
But why would the death of body and mind -as you claim, things separate from you, end the subjectivity?
>
>>So there's just the reality, which is the sum of all things observed by the subjectivity, delusional or not.
>That's something I would agree with on a cosmological level, and certainly a True Magical position, but it doesn't do you any good unless the ego you're riding manages to fully realize it. And if they ever do get close, society has a tendency to call those people crazy and lock them up or kill them.
>
>>No they're not? If I tether the subjectivity to my mind, why wouldn't it follow the mind around wherever it goes?
>Because if that were true, that the subjectivity follows the mind, then you should go full Horatio, and create as many subordinate vessels as possible.
What if there being a separate subjectivity is merely a delusion held by the many minds - but there's still only one subjectivity, shared by all the minds and bodies? Is there anything about subjectivity that precludes this?

You still haven't explained what's a subjectivity's scope btw.

>>50071724
Spoken like a Last Man.

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>>50071695
>>50071724
>I am a sociopath.

>>50071786
I didn't say I don't have morals. I do what feels right, which generally includes compassion and empathy for my fellow man. I don't want to cause suffering, because that makes me feel shitty. I also don't want to die for someone, because that would make me feel nothing ever again.

>>50071084
>If I made an exact copy of you, down to the neural connections that form your memories and feelings, would you suddenly occupy the mind of that person as well as your own?
Better question, do you enjoy that person's company and see it as a chance to get more friends?
>If I then shot you in the head, would your consciousness jump to their perspective?
Depends if he was an asshole anyway. Or weather or not the other gives a shit about a copy of themselves.
>but it's a real world experiment you can't do so you can't be sure at the end of the day.
Take a chance, you fucken pussy.

>>50071297
If I gouge out your eyes and amputate your arms and legs, are you still you?

>>50071865
Oh. We can do this experiment! Nice.

>>50071865
Yes, because you haven't interrupted his neural activity.

>>50071546
>Why is that more important than the lasting legacy you leave? Why is now more important than everything that comes after now?

Because I will never experience what comes after now. I don't care about "immortality" unless I'm the one living forever.

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>>50071813
>I do what feels right, which generally includes compassion and empathy for my fellow man.
>I am selfish, because there's nothing else to be.

>>50071983
Yeah, I help people because it makes me feel good. I don't help people because of nebulous cosmic concepts of right and wrong, though I have my own personal code of right and wrong that influences how I feel.

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>>50071945
>I don't care about "immortality" unless I'm the one living forever.

>>50072065
You don't even know what that word means...

>>50072028
>I do what feels right
>I am selfish, because there's nothing else to be.
>because there's nothing else to be.
>there's nothing else to be.
Generus is something else you can be. And if you feel good by helping others, than why are you selfish you hypocrite?

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>>50072077
>>50072099
I know what hypocrisy means.

>>50071712
>Gaian shill
>actually makes the Randian psychopath look like a reasonable human in comparison
Kill me now.

>>50072099
I'm generous because it makes me feel good, not because I think it gives me cosmic good boy points or it's somehow "correct".

We can arrive at the same conclusions, I just don't think there's anything besides me to care about at the heart of it.

>>50070875
At that scale everything is basically vibrating floppy legos. Thermal noise is all the vibration making it hard to put things together in an orderly fashion.

>>50071034
>Not treating time as a spacial dimension to see the connection between the past and the present
SHIGGYDIGGY

>>50071336
It is "you". "You" is just no longer a unique thing.

>>50071368
All atoms are the same dude, it doesn't matter which carbons your substrate is made of.

>>50071583
This is the real answer.

>>50072099
>And if you feel good by helping others, than why are you selfish you hypocrite?
He's saying he's helping others out of personal impulse to do so because it makes him feel good, not because of genuine care about people's well-being.

>>50072144
>not because I think it gives me cosmic good boy points
Also not because you actually want the people around you to be better off, apparently.

>>50072144
I don't know about "cosmic good boy points", but you'd certainly get not an asshole points.
>I just don't think there's anything besides me to care about at the heart of it.
-10 Not an asshole points.

>>50072160
What if I told you I do care about the wellbeing of others, but that's it? I care about them because I do. Not because some force compels me to.

If I don't exist, I can't care about anything. So why would I ever chose to not exist?

>>50072160
>I'm totally not an antisocial asshole who sees others as tools guys! I can be generous!

>>50072214
>I care about them because I do.
>Not because some force compels me to.
"Because I do" IS the force that compels you.

>>50072214
>I care about them because I do. Not because some force compels me to.
But that's wrong. Billions of years of external forces acting on your evolution led to you caring about others.

>>50072275
That doesn't change the fact I wouldn't care about anything if I was dead.

I'm not saying nothing is worth dying for, I'm saying almost nothing is worth dying for. If there is even a shred of possibility I'll be able to live with myself, I'm gonna take that chance. Because dying invalidates everything.

>>50072313
>Because dying invalidates everything.
That's a pretty bleak outlook to take given that the death of your physical body and conscious mind is almost a certainty in the world.

>>50072419
The much bleaker outlook is the monkey nonsense you've been spewing as the Gospel truth.

>>50072446
Why?

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>>50072275
>That doesn't change the fact I wouldn't care about anything if I was dead.
Good, neither will the rest of the world you social tumor.
>I'm not saying nothing is worth dying for, I'm saying anything that isn't me isn't worth dying for.
>If there is even a shred of possibility I'll be able to live with myself, I'm gonna take that chance.
You'll kill yourself from the lack of people to use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaKX9YYHiQ
>Because dying invalidates everything.
Fucking pussy, death is your last adventure! All this is just proving how much life you've missed out on you basement dweller.

>>50072464
Wrong post, man.

>>50072464
I don't fear death. I avoid it. Death isn't something anyone should run into with open arms, because it's fucking oblivion.

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>>50072446
>much bleaker outlook is the monkey nonsense you've been spewing
Lolwut?

>>50072457
Because you're a slave to some bullshit natural impulse.

Fuck the species. The species is a bunch of retarded genetrash apes.

Having allegiance to principles is good, but it should be out of a genuine conviction, not for "evolutionary advantage", or, for that matter, any kind of advantage. Believe in things because they matter, not because you're being told to.

>>50072145
>Not treating time as a spacial dimension to see the connection between the past and the present
>A single common factor is enough to warrant calling all those disparate piles a single being
Fuck if that's all it takes to be the same person, all of you are me since we all like /tg/

>>50072508
With ot without nudemods?

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>>50072552
>Believe in things because they matter, not because you're being told to.
Then aren't you kind of going for those "cosmic good boy points" you mocked earlier? Except this time it's "cosmic selfishness points"

>>50072508
>I don't fear death. I fear dying.
You can only avoid it for so long, even with transhumanity you're not guaranteed forever life.
>it's fucking oblivion.
Says who? This just shows you're a defeatist along with the fact that you are afraid of dying.

>>50072636
I'm not the Randian psychopath.

I just hate the "genetics makes you immortal" speciesfags like you more.

>>50072606
Base game, without Shivering Isles.

>>50072643
Says the fact I only exist as a continuous stream of chemical and electrical signals in my brain.

>>50072649
Well the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

Also, I never actually said genes make you immortal, I just said the natural world made you who you are.

>>50072552
>Because you're a slave to some bullshit natural impulse.
>Implying I like being a slave to nature
Assending into transhuman godhood is no excuse for being a selfish prick.
>The species is a bunch of retarded genetrash apes.
No shit but the least you could do is enjoy the decent you fucking defeatist.
>Believe in things because they matter, not because you're being told to.
What if you're told they matter?

>>50072726
Then I've been successfully told.

>>50072680
So now your saying we should follow natural instincts to avoid death? What about this:
>Because you're a slave to some bullshit natural impulse.
Hypocrite.

>>50072764
I am who I am. That's all I'm saying, and I'm saying it's all that matters. There's no life beyond death, and you and everything you expierenced ceases to exist.

>>50072649
>I'm not the Randian psychopath.
Of course not, you're also a defeatist hypocrite who fears his own mortality above all else. And a Randoid psycho.
>I just hate the "genetics makes you immortal" speciesfags like you more.
So now you're hateful too? You really are a social tumor.

>>50072800
lrn2occult and you'll probably have a lot more fun in both life and death imo

>>50072800
The world will exist without me. Why should I view myself as more important than the rest of existence?

>>50072807
No, I'm the one who you've been calling a Randian psychopath and a defeatist. That's a different guy.

>>50072851
Because only your perception of it exists to you. Your perspective is the only window into existence you have access to. Without it, neither you nor reality exists.

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>>50072800
You take all the fun out of atheism, you know that?

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>>50072878
>Your perspective is the only window into existence you have access to. Without it, neither you nor reality exists.
What if I told you reality we know is just an illusion?

>>50072878
I know that in the context that I see reality, reality is more than simply me. Through this observation, I believe reality to be of greater value than me. Even if it ceases to be relevant to me when I no longer exist within it as an active chemical reaction, I cannot rest idly knowing that I am putting my temporary self before something greater than it, even if that reality is equally temporary. Should there be any chance that I am able to influence reality as others perceive it, let me dedicate myself to influencing it for the better and making reality better.

For I see no reason why I should value the self over something greater than it.

I want to make an AGI character with a backstory very loosely based on the title monster from the flick Robocroc. However, I'm having trouble trying to figure out a good reason for a Firewall cell to recruit it. You guys got any ideas?

>>50073189
Make it as an NPC and give it to your GM. Alternatively, post it here.

>>50073284
>Make it as an NPC and give it to your GM.

Good idea. Thank you!

>>50073189
Why would firewall not want something programmed to hunt and kill? A little editing and that has great use for removing exsurgents.

>>50072112
How am I being a hypocrite? I'm the first guy you quoted, btw. Be real: if you were told that 5 years after you die all humans would be immortal, would you be as happy as if the date was set 5 years before your death? No. We both know that that's not the case. That's most likely the case for 99% of humans that have ever existed.

>>50073482
>How am I being a hypocrite?
>>50072099
>Be real: if you were told that 5 years after you die all humans would be immortal
Told by who? If some hobo rambled on about that for me, I'd just not give a shit and go on with the rest of my life.
>would you be as happy as if the date was set 5 years before your death?
Assuming I was told by a credible source like death himself, Yes, I'd still be happy. Because it would mean humanity will ascend to the next level of civilization. Something I actually care about that isn't me. Being sad that I wont be around for it is the cosmic equivalent of crying over spilled milk.
>No. We both know that that's not the case.
You don't even know who I am, how I was raised, where and how old I am. Assuming I'm as pessimistic as you are clearly shows how retarded you are,
>That's most likely the case for 99% of humans that have ever existed.
How much contact with other people do you have to back that up? More importantly, how much contact with 99% of all humans that existed ever do you have to back that up.

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>>50073696
>How am I being a hypocrite?

The one you quoted, and the one before it were the only two posts I'd posted itt.

>Assuming I was told by a credible source like death himself, Yes, I'd still be happy.

AS happy. No, no you would not. Putting aside the fact that you'd never feel anything again after death, you can't fucking sit there and act like you wouldn't be the slightest bit bitter.

>How much contact with other people do you have to back that up?

If I went and offered immortality to the entire of humanity, how many would turn it down? There is a reason most human religions and belief systems have either sought to avoid death or negatively characterized it: it's something not many want to experience, especially if they can help it.

>>50073696
Moreover, you didn't actually explain the hypocrisy. You just quoted the post.

>>50073797
>Putting aside the fact that you'd never feel anything again after death, you can't fucking sit there and act like you wouldn't be the slightest bit bitter.
No, I wouldn't be bitter because that's just wasting of emotional energy on something that's going to happen whether I like it or not.
>If I went and offered immortality to the entire of humanity, how many would turn it down?
Anyone with belief in an afterlife, think's it's just not natural, the depressed, the people who are curious about death, the people who think immortality would get boring. That's way more than 1%.
>There is a reason most human religions and belief systems have either sought to avoid death or negatively characterized it.
No, every mainstream religion preaches about paradise. Eternal damnation is only reserved for those who basically act like assholes. Which is probably meant as a way to scare people into not being assholes or deviating from the cultural norm. Read a book.

>>50073819
Assuming the post was about the Anon I was directing it towards, it's supposed to highlight how they said selfishness was the only thing to be in life before contradicting it by saying they helping people makes them feel good.

>>50074225
>No, every mainstream religion preaches about paradise.

Eternal immortality in heaven. Immortality as you. "Immortality in Jesus Christ."

>Eternal damnation is only reserved for those who basically act like assholes.

You don't need to claim eternal damnnation to negatively characterize/avoid death. The whole Heaven thing is about existing forever, in the presence of God. That's the key thing: existing forever. You continue existing after death. When you die, you just leave the body: but you're still conscious. That's just one example.

>>50074477
>Eternal immortality in heaven. Immortality as you. "Immortality in Jesus Christ."
That's immortality AFTER DEATH.
>The whole Heaven thing is about existing forever, in the presence of God. That's the key thing: existing forever. You continue existing after death. When you die, you just leave the body: but you're still conscious. That's just one example.
Immortality away from the suffering of this world.

>>50074568
>That's immortality AFTER DEATH.

The idea is that you have a soul and that it can't be killed. Your body can die but your consciousness--the real you--remains, to go to heaven or hell. Where it will stay. Forever.

>Immortality away from the suffering of this world.

"The appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel."

Even if we ignore this, many christians believe in the rapture. Where Jesus will ressurect his flock for final judgement. Even if it's not quite so popular now, it was a big part of scripture for a minute.

>>50074621
>Where Jesus will ressurect his flock for final judgement.

Actually, nevermind. That may have been a different thing.

>>50074621
>Forever.
Couldn't be worse than having to deal with the faggotory in this thread.

>>50074665
Just fyi, unless you're a Christian, there's a non-trivial chance you're going to The Pit. Where you'll be with the rest of us. For the rest of infinite time.

>>50074699
Or I could be a Buddhist that'll get reincarnated at worst and become godlike at best.

So to try and breathe some life into this, sicne it seems the arguement's been discussed out:

I've heard that you should never, EVER take Psi. Is this true? I know it has some drawbacks but it looks like an interesting and flavorful character option.

>>50076694

No, people who are min-max fuckfaces will discourage Psi because it costs points to give you drawbacks, but yeah, it has interesting options and utility for a character, and can do some really neat stuff besides the obvious "Yes mind bullets and yes I can add speed". Psi should never be the focus of your build, but it's capabilities can greatly enhance any number of builds.

Think of psi as similar to software upgrades for infomorphs, but for meatbags. Barring weird tech shit, you can never be stripped of your Psi sleights and they are tools which you can always utilize, even naked and in a brand new morph. Some of the sleights are grossly in-efficient, and should be reserved only for GMs doing sub-par stuff with NPCs, like Flayer over Biter ammo.

>>50076846

So, for example, I have a character who's a techie/social character and has psi-chi, they have cognitive boost, filter, grok, predictive boost and savant calculation. Another is a social.combat character with psi-gamma and they have ambience sense, filter, pattern recognition, prective boost, and unconcious lead as chi, and sense infection, mindlink, charisma, empathic scan and deep scan as gamma sleights. Is that an acceptable st of sleights for characters of those specialties?

>>50077031

I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with Cognitive Boost persay, but with the self-damage and the short duration, you're almost always more cost efficient to just buy a morph with more COG or get drugs which give you that bonus, if Tech is your deal Instinct or Multitasking may be better, and if you want the social superiority you can't go wrong with Superior Kinesics or Emotion Control instead.

Mindlink is okay, good for flavor but the range limit is pretty rough, you might not find it as fun as you'd like. For combat, Psi Stab is actually pretty brutal, especially with Potent Mind if you have the 5 CP, because unless you're fighting enemy Asyncs with Psi Armor you can rack up some easy damage through AV with your bare hands. Crits can easily do x2 DV. If you want to keep it in Sense/Control, Ego Sense can be very useful, and Thought Browse is great if you want to be subtle. Otherwise yeah, you've picked pretty solid Psi sleights.

>>50077235

Well, my thoguht with cognitive boost was mostly that I could use it just before a Grok attempting.

I was considering psi stab, but the character was running a little heavy on skill spending already, so I decided to keep the second character just on control and sense. Might change out Mindlink, might not; it's rahter flavorful for her, she takes conversational privacy seriously--she's a combat psychologist, like so many combat characters are.

>>50077443

Yeah, I mean, I can see the +5 with Cog boost because it's just a quick, but you take 1d10/2(-1) damage to do it and it only lasts a few turns. Drive takes 20 minutes to kick in, but it's a [Low] cost and you get the benefits for 8 hours, so I dunno. Anybody who does mental-type stuff will love Instinct though, the time reduction on Task actions is cray.

This philosophical talk bores me.

How do I steal a person's biomorph as quickly as possible? My character is sleeved in a mere splicer and he wants to steal the fury morph of a Direct Action mercenary whose currently spending her spare time in a scum swarm.

>>50078655
Suck her ego out through her dick

>>50078705

Despite her visiting a scum swarm, there's no guarantee she's a /epg/ degenerate so I dunno if she has one of those things.

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>>50078655

Well, a Fury has toxin filters so you're probably stuck with "apply blunt force trauma" and then slap them on an Ego Bridge right after - bodyjacking is an art which takes skill, patience and lots of planning.

Or if you're hanging around a scum swarm, roll networking if somebody can hook you up with some sweet shit man, you're still Factory. No chrome, no augs, no mods, no nanos, no 'sculpt, shit.

>>50078735

Adding one isn't hard with a healing vat.

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>>50078655

Rip off her head, transplant your head onto her body. Use biosculpting to hide the fact that you're a manhead on a grill body.

>>50078780
Why waste time with the whole head? Just take her face off. You want her face... off.

>>50078910
No, you're streamlining this op in the wrong direction. He needs his ego in the testosterone Amazon, not the face of a fury grafted onto some gangly splicer.

>>50079044
This. Although I think a head transplant would actually require more time, since you're putting together body parts from two different bodies together (who in this case are different biological sexes), which I feel like is much less smooth than just deleting her ego and putting yours in its place, which I think takes about an hour.

But then, I've seen weirder things in this setting so who knows. Maybe a scum genehacker has an experimental not at all TITAN-based device that would let me pop her head off and put my character's head on and acclimate within the timespan of a couple of minutes or so.

I feel like this is the plot to one of those Chinese cartoons I've seen before...

>>50078780
>>50079141

>It's another facechange episode again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47Ll5n-3hx0

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>>50080245

>Implying that isn't every episode of EP

unless you were on to something else

>>50076694
Psi Revamped fixes a lot of the problems with Psi.

>>50078735
If she's visiting a Scum swarm, it's because she's there for recreation. The best way to have recreation on a Scum swarm is to have both equipment.

>>50078655
Mercs are paranoid, trying to lure one in probably isn't worth it. Just buy it.

>>50078780
The body rejects the head. You found a unique way to kill yourself. Congratulations.

>>50073349
Sounds like erasure squad material, not sentinel material.
Besides, if it could be edited that easily, exsurgents could edit it ten times better.

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You're one of the last surviving Iktomi. You see strange creatures with two arms, to legs and a vertical torso approach you. What do you do?

>>50082148
Resleeve into a morph more suitable to their forms.

>>50082109
Except it is the future, so clearly it can work. If the setting handwaves nanotechnology I'm sure you can handwave head transplants.

The anon just wants his head grafted onto the body of a future Amazonian like some kinda Frankenstein abomination, is that too much to ask for?

>>50082073

Problem is I need that biomorph in particular for story reasons. Cloning it will take too long.

>>50082252
I didn't say that, someone else did. I think just ambushing her and deleting her ego somehow will suffice. I'm sure there's plenty of scum willing to let me use an ego bridge who doesn't give a shit about morals, especially when it comes to a corporate merc.

>>50082279
Just remember you're taking on a fury. That ain't easy. Maybe use a monofilament garrote.

>>50082279
>I need that biomorph in particular for story reasons.

Why? Are you trying to impersonate her, or are you trying to infiltrate a group she belongs to?

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Whats the most powerful handheld weapon possible?

>>50082527
Antimatter thrower. Just an antimatter container that allows to throw it's cargo out. Though you won't survive after using it. It starts at around 30 kT and goes up from there.

>>50082148
Get away from them, sell my property before trashumanity destroys property prices with their weird two-legged shenanigans.

>>50082279
Assuming it's a baseline fury, nanotoxins will fuck her up all right. If you can afford only one, I recommend neuropath since it's easiest to apply and can incapacitate outright. You should also consider using a nutcracker if it's just the morph you're after. Additionally, it would be a good idea to have her take some nanodrugs that aren't schizo, because it's always easier to get someone who's tripping balls. Petals would be the best for this. You should also make sure that her mesh inserts are hacked/jammed, and that no one gives a fuck about what you're doing - because people WILL see. Just tell them you're an ego hunter and the body is stolen from anarchist queer Fall orphans that the person inside likes to oppress for money or some shit like that. If you're good with social engineering and fake XP, you vould even arrange your kidnapping some support.

With that setup, subduing the fury should be a lot easier - use microwave agonizers, freezers and zap ammo. It's also a good idea to have someone with high SOM and melee skill at hand for some old-fashioned subdual.
>implying anyone takes melee

>>50084313
The fuck is that? Can't find it anywhere. Wou mean an antimat grenade?

>>50084642
Same thing basically. It's just one of the possible weapons in the setting considering existing tech. I don't think it is statted anywhere.

Antimatter grenades are okay. Don't forget that they can be easily scaled up. As long as you have enough antimatter.

>>50084421
Sell it to who? You're one of a handful of your kind left. Better to sell the property to the hoomans at a super inflated price.

>>50084421
>selling things
>caring about the accumulation of currency
>in 10AF
>as an alien
ishiggydiggydoo lads

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>>50084794

Nigga are you gay or something

The Factors are super hardcore capitalists

>>50084862
>muh Factors
The Factors in contact with transhumanity are almost certainly outcasts or criminals from their actual civilization.

They're also clearly malicious and antagonistic.

Fact of the matter is, unless you're some kind of diva who needs to be flattered by the masses, your best course of action regardless of species is to render yourself into infolife, get yourself a ship, and head off to your own star system where you don't need to compete with anyone for anything. Scarcity is a problem for the vain.

>>50084927
And then your ship blows up or your infolife mind decays from bit rot before you get anywhere near a useful star system.

>>50082308
Infiltrate the hypercorp research lab she's stationed at. She's one of the ways our group can get into there, assuming we manage to steal her morph, the party psychosurgeon prunes out all the information we need from her ego, and my character receives the behavioral masking from the same psychosurgeon. She's not just a grunt, she's the head of security there. What the fuck she's doing out on a scum swarm by herself is what we're currently trying to figure out.

Also my character has envy issues, since he lost everything in the Fall and wants to become someone else entirely. We'll see if he can pull it off in the long run but yeah, he's kind of a scumbag, even by Firewall standards.

>>50084973
>your ship blows up
No reason for it to do that.

>your infolife mind decays
Is this even something that happens in EP? I don't think I've ever seen any reference to it. In any case, you need only put yourself to sleep for the duration or in decelerated simulspace.

>>50085092

If you're doing the impersonating, I assume you're decently social?

Obviously, target surveillance is important - if you can figure out what she's here for that'll be great, but shortest route - assume she's here for a good time.

Honeypot her. Slap on some Hither, ask if she wants to come back to your tiny capsule room to do some drugs, get her on Petals or Buzz or something, then slip her some nanotoxins like that one guy said, Disruption or Neuropath is the best. DSMO is hella cheap, get some of that to make it so you can dermally apply stuff.

Have a buddy standing by with a gun loaded with Jammer and Zap rounds to put her down if shit goes south. Lead with jammer then follow up with shock. If you can get Eelware installed, this also works.

Anybody asks what you're doing - she's just having a bad trip and needs to sleep it off.

>>50085341

Bonus points if you can actually get to sex, because when the target is naked you only have to worry about implant weapons.

I recommend Behavioral Psych software to run a profile on her before hand, so you can say all the right stuff. Classic con-scheme.

>>50085138
>I don't think I've ever seen any reference to it.

That's because the devs are notech and don't realize how huge space is.

>>50085379
>Bonus points if you can actually get to sex, because when the target is naked you only have to worry about implant weapons.
Unless you are in octopus morph or some combat morph most furies can kill you during sex without any implants. Grappling can be surprisingly dangerous.

>>50085404
>it's my headcanon
Right, so then you can fuck off with that.

>>50085404
The thing that always cracks me up is Jovian "war". 17 minutes. Combat other all of Jupiter orbit in 17 minutes...

I think they were taking something heavy during time that they were writing this chapter.

>>50085428

This is why you need eelware or a bagman with a gun nearby.

>>50085429

So is your headcanon that the Factors are "clearly" outcasts or are malicious/antagonistic. That's never given in the books and is explicitly said to be up to the GM to determine their motives and such.

>>50085428
My character's in a regular splicer. He should be fine...probably.

>>50085429
Well actually he is close. Even to Proxima Centauri colony worthy sublight starship will go 40-80 years. Even EP tech will have trouble with supporting continuous running of multiple high tech computers without any glitches. Though most outrageous problems can be negated through nanomachines and redundant systems. Still there will be some unpleasant moments.

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>>50085541
Fine paste you mean.

>>50085550
>Even EP tech will have trouble with supporting continuous running of multiple high tech computers without any glitches.
Why are so many computers running? Everyone on board is sleeping for the journey. You have some low level non-sapient AI monitoring the ship's systems, there's no need for any life support, and all of the major calculations for navigation would have been completed long before the ship's journey ever began.

Has anyone done a Lovecraft crossover with EP? Deep Ones under the Europan Ice or Mi-Go stealing stacks instead of brains?

>>50085578
Welp, session starts in a few hours so I'll update y'all on what happened. Operation Bodysnatch the Drug-Fueled Amazonian now in effect.

>>50085794
Do you know what is Murphy's Law? And starship is a very complex system. Also low-level non-sapient AI will fuck up sooner or later. And 40+ years is a long ride. We are talking about ships moving at around 0.1 c. You need redundancy everywhere. Because one fuckup and you are a plasma cloud.

>>50085937
No but don't you get it? Gear in Eclipse Phase NEVER breaks down. Never. Unless you're a culturally regressive Junta slimeball.

>>50085961
Fucking TITANs and their fucking promiscuity. They could have at least stopped at their own equipment but NO they needed to have sex with all the physical laws.

>>50085937
>Also low-level non-sapient AI will fuck up sooner or later.
Fuck what up? How? There's basically no moving parts to this trip.

You have an acceleration where everyone is active and it's planned to the utmost exactitude, and you have the deceleration where you might need to improvise depending on circumstances, but the actual body of the trip, in which the ship is managed by an AI is essentially completely devoid of possible mishaps, excepting some invisible interstellar debris which is going to fuck you regardless. There's nothing that even needs to run for the vast majority of the trip, so why the fuck would it arbitrarily break down?

Besides that, most average equipment in EP is graded for much rougher conditions than a stroll through the void, and there's plenty of stations and ships with parts functioning from a century-plus out, meaning with century-plus-old parts.

The fears you're expressing are akin to canceling your fly fishing trip because Russian paratroopers might descend on you. It's beyond absurd.

>>50085794
It'd be good if you could bury all the vulnerable stuff in a big ball of ice and minerals (natural or artificial).

Keep most of the egos and machine blueprints for your new civ in the form of diamond memory crystal.

Sounds pretty comfy to me anon.

>>50085937
It's an engineering problem. And given the tech level in EP, it's not inconceivable. And since you're not traveling at more than 10% of c, your problems are lessened somewhat.

Voyager is still out there, running on electronics put together by human hands and soldering guns, powered by a lump of hot rock.

Hell, the only limit on how slow you go is how long you can keep your ship running.

You could also send two (or more) ships, for complete redundancy. Maybe with different flight profiles, and probes sent out a few years ahead to warn you of anything unusual.

Granted, EP's tech level is very optimistic, but that's what we're working with here.

>>50086063
I hope you never touch anything related to engineering.

The speed alone will need some clever designs to not kill your ship through hydrogen ripping it centimetre by centimetre. Add there PD defence against meteorites larger than micro that somehow should be operational at such speeds. A lot of protection vs different types of cosmic rays and charged particles. And so on. And so on.

If you think you can just accelerate and cruise without problems... Well I hope someone will be able to find your corpse. But I doubt that.

>>50086090
Yeah. It's not insurmountable for EP tech. But it's definitely not a stroll in the park.

>>50086210
>I hope you never touch anything related to engineering.
These piddling concerns of yours have already been resolved in the setting. They are little more than trivial to us.

There are already colony ships that travel the interstellar void.

You're just a frustrated wagecuck midget.

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>>50086291

This is why I'm afraid to ask for players from /epg/ because people like you would constantly interrupt me and say stuff like "um excuse me actually literally every engineering, software, and physics problem in the universe has been solved by transhumans, so this spaceship breaking down and needing maintenance is literally space opera levels of unrealistic", or "why the fuck are these people using welding torches to repair the breach in the space station? USING ANYTHING BUT NANOMACHINES IS LITERALLY JOVIAN LEVELS OF RETARDED REEEEEEE"

Come on man, not everyone has Ph. Ds in Aerospace Engineering or religiously browses Atomic Rockets.

>>50084927
>Implying
It's up to interpretation, for all you know they're just really sinister looking and that's it.

>>50084614
>>50085092
Her Muse is still gonna get a distress call home with data from local public spimes, rendering the infiltration attempt pretty unsuccessful. Even if you shut the muse down there's likely security person watching via the mesh. You could stop this with jamming, but jamming alone will set off some alarms.

I'm assuming this place is low security enough that they aren't using brainprint scans? The method you have won't get passed a brainprint scanner. If security is that low, a sleeving a physical infiltrator into a random bot should work.

Your best bet for actually successfully infiltrating is sneaking an infomorph onto her PAN and getting in the digital way. assuming they have good security.

>>50085138
IIRC there's an upper bound for how much subjective experience an ego can have before it starts falling apart at the seams. It's somewhere in the realm of 150-200 years and part of the cause of immortality blues. The number keeps increasing with research, so if you can use cutting edge stuff it looks like lifespan escape velocity has been achieved.

That wouldn't really be a problem for a static infomorph though, but it could be one for one running the whole way.

If a viable FTL method were to be discovered in EP, which kind do you think it should be?

>>50086463
Not even the devs can keep all the implications of their tech level straight. Which isn't that surprising, considering they take the most optimistic interpretation of every scifi pipedream and fling it at the wall.

>>50086561
What do you call the gates? Presumably transhumanity could someday figure out how they work and build more (or risk building hyperintelligent AI to do it for them, if that's what it takes).

>>50086545
>IIRC there's an upper bound for how much subjective experience an ego can have before it starts falling apart at the seams.
Nothing like that I've seen in any of the books. Only thing of this nature mentioned is Immortality Blues which 1) is not universal, and 2) is not in any way degenerative, it's just like a depression.

Since the reason for TITANs sperging out was the ETI, and the Bracewell probe is the thing that infects them, couldn't you just make a safe seed AI in a really secure Faraday cage, or like in deep space or something?

>>50086662
Yes. But that's only presented as a possible canon. So maybe they just hated us. Plenty of Seed AIs go berserk without any exsurgent infection.

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>>50086598
>Which isn't that surprising, considering they take the most optimistic interpretation of every scifi pipedream and fling it at the wall.
Nigga, did you just complain about the game having intelligent octopi, whales on the sun, and the ability to become a transformer?

>>50086690
>Plenty of Seed AIs go berserk without any exsurgent infection.
Source?

>>50069873
>The thematic questions you're meant to ask are problems
Why are people always like this with Eclipse Phase in particular? Why do people try so hard to play "gotcha'!" with this setting to only bring up something that the setting is literally meant to do? Is it the leftism?

>>50086545

>likely security person watching via the mesh

May or may not have dedicated security in a Scum Swarm - which may or may not have the dedicated infrastructure to have spimes everywhere. They're cheap, but did the hedonists remember to stick a camera everything they've added on or refurbished in the 30+ year old barge (this is why target recon and planning is important, make sure the bag spot is in a blind spot)

>I'm assuming this place is low security enough that they aren't using brainprint scans?

That's a problem for the next step for these guys, but you can try and elude or fraud brainprint scans. I'm hoping they already thought of that, but if not, well, we're bringing it up now.

>Your best bet for actually successfully infiltrating is sneaking an infomorph onto her PAN

That's really not any better than taking over her body (and I presume data on the Mesh Inserts which would include Ego ID data, etc). You'd either have to subvert and take out her Muse (which is going to be pretty obvious) or overloading her mesh inserts by running a second informorph state on it (also tends to cause obvious problems) or like, sneak an ecto or a ghostrider onto her which she or her muse does not notice stealthing her PAN and accessing the local wi-fi, assuming they have anything wireless to access and not using airgaps and hardwires.

>>50086714
I should have clarified, I meant in other fiction. You could use any sort of justification for it.

>>50086731
But they weren't fucked up before getting infected, and then there's the Prometheans which seems to make it pretty clear that the reason the TITANs did what they did was due to the ETI.

>>50086758
Or maybe they thought it was !!!FUN!!!.

>>50086210
>The speed alone will need some clever designs to not kill your ship through hydrogen ripping it centimetre by centimetre.

Whipple shields and parasols aren't terribly clever designs. They need to be pretty big, but that's about where the complexity ends.

>Add there PD defence against meteorites larger than micro that somehow should be operational at such speeds.
Those are only slightly more dangerous than a false vacuum event in the interstellar medium. It's that rare. Point defenses are easily automated as well. At that range a simple "kill everything which looks bigger than x on the sensors" order won't cause problems.

>A lot of protection vs different types of cosmic rays and charged particles.
Those passive systems don't break down in this time scale. Active nanomachine repairs might, but those aren't necessarily required.

You're making mountains out of the molehill part of this mission. The hard part is power and fuel. Redundancy of everything else is easy.

>>50086662
That's probably what the Argonauts are doing on Markov, where they probably have ADRASTEIA based

>>50086758
The TITANs weren't exactly friendly before the Fall, they just weren't murderous yet. They had already started breaking orders well before infection

>>50086726
Camera spimes are a lot like glitter, they end up everywhere. You could try to scrub an area ahead of time though, they probably don't get replaced often.

I was thinking of signal stealthing a distributed infomorph over the whole PAN myself. Hopefully very hard to spot in the noise of the local mesh.

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>>50086545
>Her Muse is still gonna get a distress call home with data from local public spimes, rendering the infiltration attempt pretty unsuccessful. Even if you shut the muse down there's likely security person watching via the mesh.

I thought radios had a limited range, so the muse couldn't transmit anything back to the base? I don't THINK she has a QE communicator or a Miniature Radio Farcaster. If she does we'll just have to hope our hacker manages to subvert the muse in time. Our plan is to completely reprogram the muse, or at least replace it with something else that won't raise too many eyebrows.

>I'm assuming this place is low security enough that they aren't using brainprint scans? The method you have won't get passed a brainprint scanner. If security is that low, a sleeving a physical infiltrator into a random bot should work.

Apparently brainscans aren't used for everyone who enters and leaves unless there's good reason to use them. The whole place is high security but apparently they don't suspect that their head of goddamn security can get compromised. Thank God they're not Ozma. I think. Eugh, now I gotta think about that being a possbility.

>Your best bet for actually successfully infiltrating is sneaking an infomorph onto her PAN and getting in the digital way. assuming they have good security.

Actually I think they're way more prepared for Mesh-based attacks than anything else. Hopefully we'll learn more once we interrogate the HoS's ego though.

I know this plan carries a lot of risks but I'm willing to give it a shot. I'm betting on my character's God-tier ability to lie, act, and impersonate others since (I hope) the last thing the facility expects are people to convincingly physically infiltrate it with their own personnel's bodies.

This session we're probably gonna come up with some alternate plans though, so you've definitely given me food for thought.

>>50086758
There's also the proposition that because they were hard launched into an ongoing conflict they actually developed things similar to regular human mental illness. Or some of them did, and others were fighting them. By the time some of them won or they sorted their minds out they just decided to up and leave.

>>50086833
>I thought radios had a limited range
It doesn't have to be a direct connection, more likely it uses a stronger transmitter onboard the swarm to broadcast that far. Mesh architecture means that signals can be sent through a huge chain of mesh-connected devices on the way. They could also have a radio booster nearby, or any Scum radio booster with a fairly permissive set of instructions could as well.

Something like: Mesh inserts-->Lighting controls for the room-->relay in the hall-->ship to ship radio-->satellite relay--> home base

is one of a million routes the message could take.

The mesh sends messages any way it can, and even does ad-hoc cloud computing. A simple mesh 911 should be able to get anywhere the mesh reaches in.

>If she does we'll just have to hope our hacker manages to subvert the muse in time.
Get that done first, everything else is a waste of time if the Muse is aware enough of an impending attack to yell for help.

>Apparently brainscans aren't used for everyone who enters and leaves unless there's good reason to use them.
That's good, brainprints are really hard to defeat. Any small hiccup might easily mean they call for one though.

Good luck, infiltration is hard

>>50086825

>Camera spimes are a lot like glitter, they end up everywhere.

Well, this is certainly true. Even if the quality is bad, they're cheap enough to put in just about anything. Or if somebody just accidentally drops their bag of mote computers.

>You could try to scrub an area ahead of time though, they probably don't get replaced often.

Also trufax. Supported by the game itself. "Buying" a blind spot or blind route may involve paying people to secure a location. Plenty of tools for a PC to DIY it if you don't mind maybe looking a little suspicious.

>I was thinking of signal stealthing a distributed infomorph over the whole PAN myself.

This is better, though still a little risky. I think you still need a home device your ego distributes from so she still has to have something you're logged into if say, wireless goes down and so your brain doesn't end up in a dozen different devices. So you'll have a problem if she does, for example, a standard wireless disconnect and reauthenticate while you're distributed - it puts a lot of faith and stress on the hacker, as much as the other plan does on the face.

It still also supposes they're doing conventional mesh networking and don't have airgapped fiberoptic lines for the important shit. You'd be fairly subtle if it worked though.

>>50087017
>It still also supposes they're doing conventional mesh networking and don't have airgapped fiberoptic lines for the important shit.
If you can access unimportant shit wirelessly, you might be able to pull an X-1 and use a maintenance robot as an impromptu grey box to get into the wired stuff. If everything is wired you're SOL though.

>This is better, though still a little risky. I think you still need a home device your ego distributes from so she still has to have something you're logged into if say, wireless goes down and so your brain doesn't end up in a dozen different devices.
Yeah, this is a good contingency, could even just be a script and static ego file. Hopefully the mesh just doesn't do that though.

> it puts a lot of faith and stress on the hacker, as much as the other plan does on the face.
I kind of doubt this can be avoided.

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Is Eclipse Phase considered cyber-punk?

>>50087461
It's mainly post-cyberpunk. Though you could play some stuff as straight cyberpunk.

>>50087461
There's a lot of it in there that you can make it a wholly cyberpunk game - the hacking rules, the mega corporations being douchebags, ubiquitous internet, the fear of tech, tech making people assholes, etc. It's one of those games where you can put it in several different genres if you fancy it. Why not take the Gibsonesque character into a Space Opera adventure? Or drop him down right into MilSF? Or have him try to survive on an exoplanet in a Robinsonade?

>>50087461
It's not really punk in any sense. Maybe pre-Fall, but the dystopian megacorps that used to exist got fucked, and now all the gerontocrats who ran them sit around in Victorian-style private LLA habs and complain about the good old days before these uppity hypercorps, while getting smashed on Mars-grown brandy and going mad from immortality blues.

>>50087542

Don't worry, they won't be alone when the rest of transhumanity all gets immortality blues and collectively commits suicide out of the crushing existential dread of existing forever while the Jovians wipe themselves out from using TITAN tech to open up several hundred wormholes across Jovian space that leads to the cores of stars.

10,000 years later, when humanity is long gone, cockroaches will inherit the Earth and begin their own traditional, 80s cyberpunk society, complete with roach mohawks.

So, yes, Eclipse Phase is cyberpunk. Just gotta wait a bit though.

You know, thinking about the above philosophy arguements

I think the nihilists are right. Nothing in eclipse phase matters; every faction is wrong and doomed, and nothing anyone does can change that.

But that's no reason to just give up, you know? Even if it's completely helpless and hopeless, there's no reason not to live as best you can.

>>50087017
> "Buying" a blind spot or blind route may involve paying people to secure a location. Plenty of tools for a PC to DIY it if you don't mind maybe looking a little suspicious.

Set up the scrub by first gaining disguises - fake mesh IDs, fake IDs in general, modding your kinesics, and taking advantage of the tranistional economy to pay for the equipment using stolen cash in multiple fake accounts. Each character gets a disguise, does not contact the others, and buys a designated piece of equipment. An excuse is found for each character to go into the area to be scrubbed, said excuse allowing for sometime to be spent in there before leaving and blending back into the crowd (sex is a great excuse for this). Incremental scrubs just create the illusion of progressive failure, as opposed to blanking a space all at once which is suspicious. Area to be scrubbed should have been scouted under a different disguise and excuse using a network traffic monitor - the area with the least communicating points that meets all other physical requirements is best (and probably a piece of knowledge you could buy on the red market).
After scrub disguises are swapped and the cat is shoved into the bag.

>>50088009
That was the main argument of one of them, except he also said he wouldn't be willing to die for anything because he wants to continue living his one life as long as possible.

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>>50088009
>every faction is wrong and doomed
It would be funny if the real reason the TITANs didn't finish us off was because they saw no point in hanging around humans anymore?

>>50088392
Isn't that basically what happened? The ones that were left just didn't give a shit about humanity and fucked off to fight the ETI/do crazy Exsurgent stuff/reverse entropy or whatever?

>>50088455
I mean that there was no exergents, the TITANs just took a good long look at us and said "Fuck this shit".

>>50088601
That's a possibility. The exsurgent corruption thing is only ever presented as an option. The TITANs could have created exsurgents if you feel like it.

>>50088601
Very unlikely, since 1) there are exsurgents, and 2) other seed AI didn't follow in TITAN's path.

>>50088632
1) It's an alternate setting theory 2) The only one I know of are the Prometheans, who's to say TITANs didn't just had shitty programming? It was developed by Amerifats.

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Has anyone ever tried to do a game as the ETI?

>>50088699
TITANs were developed by all major world powers partly independently I thought?

There's also the Sybils.

>>50088726
How the heck would you do that? What kind of system could model the ETI doing whatever they want?

Oh, yeah, there's FATE. </cheapshot>

>>50088728
iirc there's some in-universe theory their development was an ancient conspiracy.

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>>50088728
I remember looking this up in either X-Risk or Firewall. The Total Information Tactical Awareness Network was developed by the Jewnited States as an automated system that could counter terrorism in all it's forms. Come to think about it, that just adds to the cosmic humor to know that the Fall happened because of Dumbfuckingstan's war on terror.

>>50088818
Now I'm thinking of the cult of techno-jews from wolfinstine new order.

>>50088699
Aren't the sybils also confirmed to be ASI?

What are the job opportunities for someone who finished their indentured servitude as a prostitute?

>>50089820

None. Jobs don't exist in Eclipse Phase. Everything is AIs or drones.

>>50085961
On the contrary, repair spray exists.

>>50089820
That's the fun part about being an indenture, once you're done, you have no where else to go. Most menial jobs are taken up by other indentures, so a lot people go into a second contract just to have secure living conditions.
>>50089827
Someone needs to shepherd those drones.

>>50085961
The fuck you talking about? Everything breaks down eventually, just takes longer.

>>50089953
>Someone needs to shepherd those drones.
AGI, a fork of someone competent, or just AI.

>>50090127
This. Individual transhuman egos no longer need to work, unless they're in the slave markets of the inner system or the hellhole of the Junta.

>>50088102

Well shit, what's the point in being afraid of death? Nothing matters, which leads me to one conclusion; everything matters equally. If cosmically we are insignificant, than to each other you are exactly as significant as you want each other to be. If there's only what we do and what we make, what not make and do good for each other? And stride forward with a song on our lips and no fear in our hearts!

>>50090151

I mean, I know you're just fucking around and saying the party line so we can have this argument again - but for the sake of people who aren't familiar with this discussion, even in the New Economy people have to "work" several hours in a week on basic hab tasks. And this is in the freedom to fork and skill graft and use shitloads of AI and drones because we don't give a fuck polities.

So no, "work" and jobs are not obsolete, and spaceships have "passenger" numbers.

While we're at it, Jovians are more in the middle than the two extremes people like to push them into, Firewall may or may not be as bad as Project OZMA or anybody else - not that it matters because OZMA is whatever your GM wants it to be, and there's perfectly valid philosophical points to Ego/Morph duality and not

>>50090209
Because the fellow you're talking about doesn't want good for others, he wants good for himself. His satisfaction is what matters to him.

>>50090258

That's silly, he doesn't matter any more than anything else does!

>>50090323
Well yeah, so he's just going to enjoy himself.

>>50090247
No, that's just not true. Maybe really tiny autonomist habs still have some work to do, because they're actively building their hab, and defending themselves, but it's not necessary for a living, or indeed, for luxury. It's something you do because you want to, or you believe in it.

>>50090323
He matters more to himself.

>>50090127
That's only if no one sees AGIs as people and forking for hours is dangerous. ALIs only take the jobs we're too smart for.

>>50090349

>No, that's just not true.

In most new economy habitats, common goods are freely available to all residents—or at least to all residents who meet certain criteria. These criteria usually take one of two forms: citizenship or public works. In wealthy and prestigious habitats, free access to all common goods is offered to residents who have official citizenship. Citizenship can be earned in a variety of ways, but the most common involves either being considered a strategic asset due to some singular expertise, performing an exceedingly valuable service to the habitat, or working for the habitat for some period of time. Once an individual is a citizen, the energy, living space, and raw materials they use in the course of their daily lives are all freely available.
In many collectivized habitats, residents are expected to pull their weight by contributing to ongoing public works in the habitat, typically requiring between four and eight hours every week. Depending on the nature of the colony, this work may be selected by the government, the collective syndicates that oversee the management of resources, or by a high rep individual who controls access to large amounts of energy and raw materials. Unless someone has especially valuable skills, this labor is often dull but safe work that can be done more easily by humans than AIs, such as checking the habitat for flaws and performing maintenance tasks.
Assuming an individual has acquired citizenship or put in their share of work for the collective well-being of the station, they will have access to a supply of energy and raw materials that allows them to use their cornucopia machines to manufacture what they need. Visitors are generally also allowed access, though anyone staying long is expected to contribute to the habitat if they don’t want to see their reputation slashed.

>>50090349
So the service industry has been taken over? Are artists, prostitutes, hypercorps, scientists, humanitarian aids, private militaries all nothing but ALIs? The whole point of making them weaker than us is so they don't overpower us or go out of control due to glitches and basically destroy everything.

>>50090448(me)
>go out of control due to glitches and basically destroy everything.
See wild artificial

>>50090389
>you gots ta work fo da new massas
No, you can choose to if that's what you're interested in, but an autonomist is by his nature beholden only to his own whims. Technology has already ended the need to work.

>>50090448
Creative labor is not essential, and, in the autonomist society, it is not coerced. Most services are unnecessary, and the few that are can be managed by nonsapient AI, or even just simple programs.

>>50090504
>Technology has already ended the need to work.
No. It's just Ended the things that are below transhuman's current level of intelligence.
>Creative labor is not essential
Creativity is the bases of fucking culture. Entertainment, art, architecture, music, are always in need.

>>50090661
They're in demand, not need.

>>50090673
Are you saying that we as humans don't need to be entertained? Literally everything we've done as a civilization needs it.

>>50090673

You are aware that humans need entertainment and creative works to either work on or indulge in in order to not go batshit fucking crazy and off themselves, right? You can in theory live without such things, but you'll be far, far, FAR from productive and the long-term psychological effects are literally crippling.

>>50090504

Okay, well, good luck eating, drinking and having air behind beholden to your own whims when the collective is like "bro, gotta do your share - we all gotta".

>>50090673
>They're in demand, not need.
The only difference between wants and needs is that after needs are met, they become standards of living. At that point wants turn into needs because that's just the way we work. When the internet was invented, it was seen as a luxury, not a necessity; now it's so widespread that's it's considered a standard of living, a need, rather than a want

>>50090389

>Unless someone has especially valuable skills, this labor is often dull but safe work that can be done more easily by humans than AIs, such as checking the habitat for flaws and performing maintenance tasks.

So, this definitely proves some dull, non-risky tasks are better done by humans than AIs.

>>50090504
>but an autonomist is by his nature beholden only to his own whims
Well sure, but then he'd be the autonomis equivalent of a hobo.

>>50071368
>the same lump of grey matter
The constituent atoms that comprise that "same lump of grey matter" get replaced every couple of years, anon. It's no longer "the same lump of grey matter" it was a year ago.

>>50091258
That's wrong though, your neurons don't regenerate. That's why head injuries, even relatively minor ones, can build up over time an why strokes are so debilitating.

Hey /epg/, let's play a game. I'm going to give a few sets of motivations; you present ideas for what that character is or is like.

-Self, +Hypercapitalism, +Morphological Freedom

+Fascism, +Morphological Freedom, -Technoprogressivism

-Anarchism, -Personal Freedom, -Economic Freedom

+Adventure, +Technoprogressivism, +Statism

>>50090673
Your games must be boring as fuck if everyone actually goes "mmmmmyes we have evolved beyond such trivial things as art and creativity mmmmmyes"

>>50091266
They don't regenerate, no, but they sure as fuck respire and metabolise.

You do know the difference between atoms and cells, don't you?

>>50091270
>Some kind of weird Extropian?

>Jovian

>Titanian?

>Argonaut

>>50091270

Ah, this game. You have devised some perplexities today, I see.

>-Self, +Hypercapitalism, +Morphological Freedom

So, sounds like an extropian who either hates themselves, or hates the concept of the "self"? They're pro capital and pro morph-freedom, but against themselves, but not in like a "I want to develop and change" way. Probably got some mental baggage there.

>+Fascism, +Morphological Freedom, -Technoprogressivism

Okay, here's an oddball. Pro strong, militant authoritarian government, against "yes, progress of science and technology will solve all our problems", but pro the freedom to modify the body to your desire. I'd almost say a militant Exhuman except for the last one. Maybe a non-religious Jovian or similar affiliation, does not believe in democratic rule, and is opposed to such groups rampant techno-wankery, but is not opposed to the ideal of refining the human form. It's like if a Jovian started reading Ultimate textbooks.

>-Anarchism, -Personal Freedom, -Economic Freedom

A cartoon dictator. Or a non-cartoon dictator who managed to escape his shitball country during the fall. Or maybe a crazy emergent AGI who was designed to organize people or something. Either way this is a weird-ass out there character that just about everyone will want to shoot.

>+Adventure, +Technoprogressivism, +Statism

Titanian Gatecrasher working for the GateKeeper microcorp. Or some other position of ACTION SCIENCE. As we've discussed though, +Statism is a shitty motivation, the concept of Statism is too broad.

>>50091409
>Probably got some mental baggage there.
Background: Lost

>>50091455

Yeah, that's an easy pick.

Even better, pick Multiple Personalities as one of your Disorders.

>>50091270
>-Anarchism, -Personal Freedom, -Economic Freedom
Someone who hates having to make their own decisions and wants someone else to tell them what to do. Maybe a weak AI

>>50082527
SMGs with hollow points.

>>50086709
I complain about whales on the sun.

>>50086463
You're contradicting yourself. You're worried about people complaining about players complaining about you setting limits on nanotechnology but then
>Come on man, not everyone has Ph. Ds in Aerospace Engineering or religiously browses Atomic Rockets.
Someone who browses Atomic Rockets is the kind of person who would be all for putting realistic limits on nanotechnology.

>>50070556
No, this is high level role play. They're playing brains trapped in cyberspace, with nothing to do but speak to each other.

>>50090504
That's nice until the collective votes to confiscate your morph to give to someone who pulls their own weight. Don't worry. They'll reinstantiate you as an infomorph eventually unless they conveniently forget

>>50092121
What about someone who pulls not just their weight, but the weight of half the collective, all with a perpetual smile and no complaint whatsoever?

>>50092142
Those kinds of people get afforded a lot more resources than anyone else, whether it be living space, dibs on feedstock, higher power allotment, etc.

>>50092182
Do they also get targeted for assassination by their jealous peers?

>>50091999

>Someone who browses Atomic Rockets is the kind of person who would be all for putting realistic limits on nanotechnology.

That's not guaranteed but yes, I'd hope I'd get that kind of person.

I just don't want to be constantly reprimanded by someone who has way greater knowledge about physics and shit than I do the second I take liberties about science shit or nanotechnology or what have you.

>>50092559

If it helps, the only thing I'd sperg out about would be improper emergency medicine--I'm a trained AEMT and that shit annoys me to no end. Even in a hypertech society there are just some things that you have to *do* in emergency medical situations and gah.

If I had a dime for every time I have been tempted to scream SCENE SAFETY at a movie or book where an EMT or paramedic just goes rushing in headfirst without even bothering to check the scene and AAAAAAAAAARGH

And don't get me started on improper management of wounds or IVs! Sweet christ! And no one ever calls it adrenaline in the field, it's fucking epi, good lord.

... So yeah, I sperg about that stuff.

If bonobos wanted to make a remade model what would they come up with?

Hey fellas, Eclipse Phase newfag here. I'm fairly experienced in being a dm, so i know the basics, but are there any tips you can give me in switching to the atmosphere and ideas of Eclipse Phase? I've read the sticky, but I feel like you all might be able to supply at least a bit more tips for me. I'm running the Glory adventure as a first session/s, if that's anything to bear in mind.

Thank you for any help.

>>50094409

For players: go black trenchcoat, getting things is far more important than starting with things, Speed and Initiative wins combat, and quarantine quarantine quarantine.

>>50094409
Ultimately the Exsurgent virus in Eclipse Phase is as deadly as the GM wants to make it. There are mechanics given for MOX(10) saves and so on but at the end of the day it's a save-or-die effect that can bring the game to a crawl if the players actually get serious about taking every possible precaution against it (which they will after they catch it a couple times).

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>>50094316
if you're asking about a remade for humans, pleasure pods.
If you're asking about a remade for bonobos, bonobo based pleasure pods.

>>50094409
Try to keep play moving. Because the setting is both paranoia inducing and hard sci-fi enough to extrapolate with real world info, it's extremely easy to get bogged down in minutia.

Speaking as both a player and GM, please don't let games get stalled for 15 minutes talking about every last X-virus infection vector or thing to do with nanomachines, or whatever.

Keep play moving. Make information easy to find, but hard to sort through and interpret. Kill morphs fairly freely, but let them get patched up most of the time. Eclipse Phase runs best when you aren't given enough time to cover every eventuality, but can still succeed.

Of course, turbo-planning something can be cool too. Like that infiltration and body-theft upthread.

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Could I get some skull themed robot heads

like pic related and>>50070585

Alright, jacked it from somewhere, and it's probably Speshul Snowflake as fuck, but I got the idea of a rogue Ny'knikiin with a grudge against its own species and TITANs, in a Critter, Novacrab, or Whiplash refluffed to resemble a human-sized mantis shrimp with sonic attacks. How stupid of a idea is this for a PC?

Hello.
I would like help from this thread.
I'm interested in playing a sci-fi RPG.
I read a little about eclipse phase, but in the end, some elements made me not appreciate it so much, specially because I wanted something more hard sci-fi. (I'm aware that eclipse phase is considered hard sci-fi, but for me, it wasn't enough.)
So I learned about GURPs and I concluded that it would be better to run a near future hard sci-fi.
However, I and my possible players would need to read and study A LOT of stuff to run in it properly as I wished.
And I just have to much to study with college now.
But I haven't played RPG for years, so I reconsidered eclipse phase, since it would be much more viable, also, I considered running "as if" it was a distant future sci-fi, not near.
It would also problably much easier to get players, since the idea of having to read so many GURPs books and stuff would be too unpleasant to some.
I also had some ideas that would be better for a distant future sci-fi than a near future, so, why not.
Also, I never GMed a game. I only considered turning GM because I couldn't find one that I liked for too much time. So it could bring experience to me.
Thing is, I don't have experience GMing. And I don't have experience with Eclipse Phase.
I would like some advise, suggestion of ideas, etc.
Also: I would problably start playing with only my girlfriend as a player. Because it's hard for me to find decent players, and because she also didn't play any decent RPG for years. Also, both of our agendas are more or less full, with the two of us very busy, so it would be problematic in this period to have more players to the sessions.
I never played much of a one player game, so if some one have experience in this and have advise or suggestions, it would be welcome.
Specially if the sugestions are also specific to the Eclipse Phase instance of the "problem", and the one player being my girlfriend.
Thats all, I thank you for the time reading this.

>>50096977
>Specially if the sugestions are also specific to the Eclipse Phase instance of the "problem", and the one player being my girlfriend.

Just have sex with your girlfriend and, afterwards or during, shout "plus f-rep" at the top of your lungs.

>>50092310
>Implying that people are usually jealous enough on average to kill competitors... Especially in a society where people have little privacy

>>50093389
>No exergents are gonns sneak up in me. I have enhanced senses, maxed perception and a T-ray emitter!

>>50096893
I'd allow it.

>>50086825
>The TITANs weren't exactly friendly before the Fall, they just weren't murderous yet. They had already started breaking orders well before

Which book goes into detail about them/this?

>>50097720
I think it's in CRB, but the "breaking orders" bit he's talking about only actually relates to their recursive self-improvement. They set aside defense resources for >totally legitimate projects< in order to make themselves smarter. Then they stumbled on the Bracewell probe and got infected and went bonkers.

>>50096977
Is your girlfriend ready to play a game that is designed to cause frustration and existential malaise?

Eclipse Phase isn't one of those games where players have a reasonable chance of getting what they want. A bit like Call of Cthulhu, it's a game that's only fun if you go into it expecting hopelessness and just being curious to see what horrible thing is going to happen to your character. Only instead of the Great Old Ones eating the world, characters are the pawns of oppressive social systems and technology far beyond their understanding rendering them impotent and obsolete. Even personal goals are meaningless when the players' very sense of personhood is a useless relic.

If she wouldn't be down for that, maybe just run Traveller instead.

>>50096977
>GURPS
>I and possible players would need to read and study a lot
No. Just you, assuming your players like hard sci-fi as much as you do. Eclipse Phase? Yes. The setting stuff is long, and that's an understatement.

>>50097835

That is quite possibly the single most depressing way to interpret Eclipse Phase's setting I have ever read, holy shit.

>>50097343
I have no idea what you are talking about.
>>50097835
I don't know, neither of us played eclipse phase before, but she was interested in playing, so I will at least give it a shot.
>>50097987
In GURPS case when I talked about reading and studying a lot I was talking about all the rules and complementary rules.
In hard sci-fi I like things as realist as possible, so I would like to make the combat and most of the other relevant aspecs of the game as realistic as possible. As consequence, it would mean many complementary books of rule sets do read. That's why I decided to let the GURPS near future hard sci-fi to later.
In comparison, reading the rules and setting of eclipse phase is fast.

>>50099267
Why do you talk like a retard? Something wrong with you, boy?

>>50099267
>I don't know, neither of us played eclipse phase before, but she was interested in playing, so I will at least give it a shot.
It's a good opportunity to figure out what her weird fetishes are.

>In GURPS case when I talked about reading and studying a lot I was talking about all the rules and complementary rules.
That's your job. GURPS isn't really that difficult for players. Since you don't really have any players, you can take your time.

>>50099368
If I made some spelling mistakes it may be related to the fact that english isn't my first leanguage and it's been a long time that I don't practice writing in english. I usually just read.
And I slept very little yesterday, so my cognitive habilities are worst than normal.

>>50099422
I understand that it would be my job more than anybody else - however, with to many rules for combat for example, if the players are not proeficient with them, it would take much more time than it normally would, and it can become boring.
I understand that I'm the one that would need to master the rules, but I think it would be important too that the players become proeficient with them. But I agree with you in the rest.

>>50072214
>I care about them because I do. Not because some force compels me to.
Fucking non-answer.

>>50099640
I love how people are still stomping this guy into the dirt. Assuming he's still here, he probably decided to change the subject hours ago.

>>50099523
It's not just the atrocious spelling, but the awful syntax. If you're from some non-European country then maybe it's excusable, otherwise I can only see you as brain damaged.

>>50097835
Then why the fuck should I even play this game if nothing our players do matters. I play RPGs to have fun, not to have the GM lecture to us about how the universe doesn't care about our existence.

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>>50100118

>Being this belligerent towards someone's English capabilities when it's not his first language

Christ, no wonder no one comes to /epg/ anymore.

>>50100147
Look at the utterly asinine bullshit he comes to us with:

>uh hey guys I need you to convince me to run your silly game for my gf
>I'm not enthusiastic about this at all
>I'm mainly here to shit on you because I have a gf and I'm not some stupid nerd who has time to waste on your silly RPG

>>50100118
Fuckoff cancerfag

>>50100238
Not his first fucking language, stop sperging over it faggot.

>>50100260
He needs to adapt to the culture here, not the other way around. This is not his blog. If he wants help the least he could do is ask for it politely instead of wave his cyberdick around and plugging his ears to shout "Nananananananaa I'm not reading the book because it's too big answer my questions for me naananananananana"

>>50100129
For the same reason you can have fun playing Call of Cthulhu or Dwarf Fortress. To enjoy the crash and burn in a fantasy world where the consequences aren't real so you don't have to worry about self-preservation.

>>50100238
That's exactly what he's saying and implying.

>>50100300
>"Nananananananaa I'm not reading the book because it's too big answer my questions for me naananananananana"
He's in college. It's easier to ask for specific things than read through the core book and every relevant source book. And considering how much important information is is the source books, I can't blame him for saying it's TL;DR.

>>50100477
This fuck is owed nothing. He doesn't even present his request politely, he just shits out a blogpost and demands answers. He can fuck off with that.

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>>50100499
>This fuck is owed nothing.

>>50100623
>everyone who isn't a beta cuckold is a Randian psychopath
Nice try Mr. Goldberg.

>>50100309
But Anon Dwarf Fortress is not about hopelessness. It's about being so horrible and malicious that you conquer Hell using still alive elves as ammunition for your catapults and make a theme park there for your dwarves.

Nothing stops you from doing something similar to this scale in Eclipse Phase.

>>50100677
In either case, you can keep going for a while if you're lucky and metagame hard, but you can never "win." And most of the time you can't even keep going for a while. Sooner or later, you will lose, if there's even a "you" left to lose.

>>50100300
I'm not going to comment about my communication skills, I'm tired and they are problably bad. After I sleep I will problably be able to do better.

But I would like to make something clear:

I never said that I wasn't going to read the book.

I read the book of Eclipse Phase.

The books I was talking about being problematic to read were the GURPs ones. And even in this case I will read them before I play the game - it's just that I don't have time for it now, and I don't think I would find willing people to read them too. That is why I'm considering playing Eclipse Phase now, and not GURPs. That is why I came to the Eclipse Phase Thread, and not the GURPs one.

I tried, and I'm still trying, to be polite in my requests for help. I'm sorry if somehow it looked offensive, it wasn't my intention.

Actually, I really don't belive you belive the things you said about me (most of them, at least), and I belive you are talking just to make other people unconfortable, but of course, I may be wrong about it.

I'm mostly replying now to clarify that I have read the books of Eclipse Phase, I just didn't play the game, so I would like practical advise from people who have experience.

>>50101218
The practical advice is that GURPS is better as a system.

If you want to play in Eclipse Phase start small. Don't through everything at your players at once - like resleeving, psychosurgery and so on. Try to ease them a little over time. Introduce options one by one. Maybe even try some contained module where they don't have a luxury of changing bodies. Like a detective work in a small hub or something similar.

>>50101218
Run Continuity.

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>>50101763
>The practical advice is that GURPS is better as a system.

Let's take a look at the 'required reading' section of the Eclipse Phase GURPS conversion

>Eclipse Phase Corebook
>Eclipse Phase: Sunward
>Eclipse Phase: Panopticon
>GURPS Mysteries
>GURPS Social Engineering
>Delta Green

and it isn't mentioned, but you need the GURPS corebook too. That's a total of seven books needed to play the game, flipping back and forth between and cross referencing all of them during, most likely while your players fiddle with their phones. Definitely what I'd expect from a """better""" system.