Horus Heresy General /hhg/

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First for MURDER

So how has BoP affected the thread quality and meta recently?

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2nd for damned Unstable

>>50080626
The price I pay

Let's try and have a nice friendly supportive thread lads

>>50080682
I'll do my best, senpai.

Reminder to all not to namefag without good reason.

>>50080698
Bless you anon

Prepping my marines for priming this weekend, I'm not confident in my painting so I'm trying my first practice Death Guard

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KA confirmed IW !

>>50080780
>09:55
It's nice to know I have fans all the way in Brexitland.

Guys, is Master of Mankind epub available yet? I mean, alternatively available.

>>50080821

The book isn't available for another three weeks for the pre-release copies. I'm aiming to get one sent to me, so I'll spill any spoilers I encounter.

This is probably a stupid question, but does 30k just use the 40k rules wig different units/FoC?

>>50080884
READ THE FAQ
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>>50080884
Every thread, like fucking clockwork.

Here's the running errata my group uses for 30k. I remember seeing some good suggestions on here before as well.

Rotor Cannons: Add Shred to special rules.


Combi-volkites: 5 points


Plasma Pistols: 10 points


Moritats: Remove Chain Fire Overheat. Add Archeotech and Lucifex pistols as options for 20p each.


Apothecaries: Change Power Sword option to Power Weapon


Recon Marines: Remove Support Squad


Destroyers: Units cost down to 100, Jump pack cost down to 35 points, 15pp additional model.

Seeker Squad: Change “Any Seeker Space Marine may exchange their bolter for:” to “Any Model may exchange their bolter for:”


Tactical Support Squads: Melta and Plasma guns reduced to 10pts per model.


Darkwing/Storm Eagles: May transport Jump Infantry.


Strike Captain Alverex Maun: If a Dedicated transport is purchased for Maun, during deployment he may take with him a single eligible unit that fits within the transport capacity. This unit treats that dedicated transport as their own so long as Maun is attached to it.


Augury Scanner: Simplify the section on interceptor to make it function like normal interceptor; it triggers at the end of the movement phase, not during shooting.

Thoughts? Additions?

>>50080795
Sorry to disappoint, I'm from the other side of the channel.

>>50080795

Is anyone from Brexitland going to the HH Event this Saturday?

>>50081006
I don't have a problem with most of these, but why remove support squad from recon squad? thats the purpose of the recon company ROW isn't it?

>>50081166
Ah yes. Thats a relic from the last red book. I went and deleted a bunch, missed that one.

Someone in the last thread said sicarans outshine predators, but with the points increase they got I'm not sure I agree. For the price of a sicaran you can get two autocannon predators with change to spare, which will (a) probably survive longer and (b) achieve a similar number of hits. You lose rending and the jink thing, but I still think a pair of predators is a good option.

so /HHG/ how big is the detatchment your force represents on the table? is it a battalion? a company or a whole chapter? how close are you to having the entire force your army represents? my army is supposed to be the 18th battalion of the luna wolves, so I have 5 companies as my goal, and I'm almost done with one, lacking just a rhino and 3 dreadnoughts.

>>50081209

I have over 300 Marines of varying marks unbuilt, and I'm planning to increase that to a full 1000 Marines before I start building.

>>50081214
what a waste, why aren't you putting together your little dudes and giving em some fightin' to do?

>>50081251

Because I can't paint and model for a shit, and I love to collect.

What's worse if that half that army is Resin. I want at least half the models to be full FW Resin and the rest to be plastic.

>>50081214
That is a terrible idea.
You will start to put them together, get discouraged at your backlog, and stop altohether.

>>50081260
your lack of painting or modeling ability isn't going to improve unless you sit down and do them, jesus - at least only get 500 and then have a comission to paint them if you want to be a turbo autist.

>>50081214
>>50081260
As some who's made the classic "plastic crack" mistake in the past and now has a backlog of multiple armies in grey (or even still on sprues) which I'm struggling to get the motivation up to get painted, I really have to advise against that. Start building & painting stuff now, there's no way you'll be able to deal with a 1000 model backlog.

>>50081209
Mine is post-massacre RG/XIX Predation Fleets so it's an ad-hoc style army. There really isn't a 'number' to work up to. But I do have ~8k worth of points before upgrades.

>>50080550
Thanks for taking over. I had to vomit my stomach contents out recently so can someone post their dudes' fluff or most recent mini to cheer me up?

Rate this babey!

SoH The Long March RoW 2000 points

HQ:
Maloghurst and a Forge lord Consul with jump pack, Power mace, Rad grenades and cortex controller.

Troops:
1. Reaver attack squad (10): Meltaguns (2), Power sword (2), Powerfist artificier armour, jump packs.
2. Veteran squad (10): Plasma gun (2), Combi-plasma, Rhino
3. Tactical squad (10): no upgrades
4. Support squad (10): Volkite Calivers

Heavy:
Land Raider Squadron: Achilles + Proteus: Twin-linked lascannon

Thallax cohort (6): augment Ferrox, Heavy chainblades

Plan is to have a fluffy army, one that tears down the fotresses of Molech etc etc.

The bare tactical will travel in the Proteus. The Land raider squadron may be split depending on matches.
The Support squad will be left in my own deployment zone. Having relentless du to RoW they can walk and fire from way back and defend any objectives closer to home. With them is Maloghurst.
Veterans will outflank.
Reavers + Thallax will deep strike to cause as much damage as possible. Forgelord will join the reavers, boosting with the rad missiles and with the power mace, cause some instant death if I'm lucky.

I believe that there is a good balance between anti-tank and anti-infantry. Several units can do both while others are more focused.
Anti-air is something I consider for the future.

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>>50081343
>most recent mini

>>50081424

Nice one.

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Hey /hhg/, do you think Firewing will get some special rules ? Long time 40k Dark Angels player on a verge of switching to Salamanders for various reasons, including my love for flamers and melta. What's stopping me is nostalgia and having to paint minis in a different color which would stop me from using some of them with the ones painted as Dark Angels. Still, I'm holding out hoping for Firewing so that I can have Dark Angels with flamers.

And yeah, I know I can just paint them as Dark Angels and play them using Salamanders' rules. I will probably do that if the Firewing won't get any rules but it just won't feel right.

>>50081006
>Plasma Pistols: 10 points
>Moritats: Remove Chain Fire Overheat
>baww why can't my 125pts single model kill 250+ points of terminators every other turn
Fuck off.

>>50081449
They're confirmed to be getting rules, but that might not be for several books yet. Why not do both, have fire-bros?

>>50081449
Firewing has been speculated to be burning assault marines, and there are a few pictures with 30k Dangles painted in their 30/40k colors.

>>50081343
>>their dudes fluff
the 18th company of the luna wolves is where the outcasts, unfavored and censured luna wolves were put by horus, as a way to send them to the buttfuck of nowhere where he wouldn't have to deal with them, they are lead by an old terran called Sejanus, who together with a cadre of terrans fought along side the emperor before the discovery of horus. because they are in the bumfuck of nowhere, never favored or cared for by their primarch they never change livery to the sons of horus, and are never called to Istvaan, them and their expeditionary fleet recover roots with the forgeworld of metalica before becomming emboiled in various compliances until the heresy starts proper, where they remain an independent loyalist fleet that assist the imperials as best they can without being captured or censured. eventually they all die trying to break the blockade around terra during the siege.

>>50081464
You know moritats only hit a max of 12 times now right? Even then it's not going to kill 12 termis a turn.

Besides Chainfire overheat AND max 12 hits makes Moritats Headhunters level of bad.

>>50081488
12 terminators with upgrades would be over 400 points you retard

I'm doing RG and need to know do I put my mooks in mk7 or is it elite guys only?

>>50081449
I don't think it's been confirmed if the "fire" in Firewing is the burn-y type or the "firepower" type yet. You'll be able to spam flame/melta anyway, that's part of 30k, but if it's specialisation you want you'll probably have to wait for the DAngles

There'll definitely be some sort of representation, but it may be purely RoW.

Don't paint one and play the other - consider instead allies and Shattered Legions

This said, Sallies are pretty solid, and they do have their rules, so they're certainly an option

>>50081525
>mk7
That'll get you REEEs

It's MkVI (beaky) that's the RG's preference, but it's pretty widely deployed within the legion

>>50081514
You missed the point, you might want to increase your reading comprehension skills before you start name-calling; a single Moritat is NOT going to kill 12 termis a turn unless you roll perfectly and they roll terribly. Which is highly unlikely.

A 5 man plasma support squad can kill up to 10 termis a turn(325 points before upgrades), and they're only 175. Are they overpowered? No. Granted they aren't BS5, but they are guaranteed 10 shots within 12".

>>50081488

It's still not fair, game balance wise, that a 160 point model (50 base, 45 for Moritat, 10 for Artificer, 5 for melta bombs, 20 for jump pack 10 for refractor and 20 for two Plasma Pistols) can just auto-delete 200-300 points of infantry a turn.

Frankly, that's bullshit.

>>50081541
My mistake It was a typo same question applys for 6

>>50081550
Auto-delete? How? See >>50081543

>>50081543
Who gives a flying fuck about how much a unit theoretically can kill? A 5 man plasma support squad for 175pts will kill an average of 3.7 tartaros terminators while a moritat for 145pts will kill 5+ tartaros terminators while being more mobile, more survivable and less likely to kill himself.

>>50081553
Should be alright on normal guys I reckon

>>50081592
>while a moritat for 145pts will kill 5+ tartaros terminators
based on what? give me math

What's with mathhammer cunts being so damn aggressive and angry?

>>50081616
Not him, but
average 10 hits
about 8.2 wounds
approximately 2.7 5++ saves
Its over five kills, per turn, on average. That can swing wildly depending on dice.

Plasma moritats are the only remotely broken moritat build, so some form of chain fire overheat is quite frankly needed

>>50081592
So on average 4 tartaros termis from the support squad and 5-6 form the moritat? And max 10 and 12? Not a huge jump in damage output.

Then consider how you're delivering the Moritat.

Does he have a destroyer squad to deliver him? That's an extra bucket of points and suddenly he's not so 'cheap' anymore.

Is he solo? He' probably going to fire one turn then die.

Now you can also only take a maximum of 2 Moritats at any given time. And many RoWs limit consul choices to one.

Also why are tartaros termis exposed to be shot at? They should always be in a transport unless in CC. If they're getting shot then either you got outplayed or they killed something in CC and are left in the open.

Here's my next point:
>>50081616
He's assuming the best outcome of average hits. like this guy >>50081645
2+ to hit across 12 potential dice on two pistols rolling at once is 10 hits. Which is assuming a lot, too much really. Those misses could just as easily come first for zero total hits.

I would say a Moritat is not going to hit 10+ times very often. The odds of a 1 occurring before the last potential hit is higher.

>>50081670
>Those misses could just as easily come first for zero total hits.
This.
You don't get 10 average hits, anon, you get 10 hits assuming you don't roll a 1 earlier in your math. This is a premier case of mathhammer NOT working, because mathing averages do not put in for the actual placement of the inevitable 1s roll. The 1s roll must happen LAST for the mathhammer to actually apply, and that is statistically as unlikely as getting all 12 hits.

>>50081470
>>50081472
>>50081528
This might sound ironic coming from a 40k DA player but I don't like having differently painted models in a Space Marine army. When using the three wings and their vehicles I always make sure they all incorporate some accents with the colors of the other wings, like replacing all the white parts on Ravenwing and Greenwing with the same color I use for Deathwing armor, using the same green I use for Greenwing for robes on Deathwing, have all three use weapons painted dark red and some gold trinkets etc.

Salamanders would make horrible allies for me because them being a different shade of green would clash with the rest. So I'll most likely paint up some more Tacticals with flamers as Dark Angels and use my current army with Salamanders' rules - that way I won't have to repaint or buy new Rhinos, Drop Pods and so on.

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>>50081709
>green
I've got good news, and I've got bad news.

Dark Angels ain't green.
In M30, they're black, with loads of knightly heraldry

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>>50081343
>most recent mini
Still haven't made any more progress on pic related, but I've got some bros coming over on the weekend for a painting day so that should be rectified soon.

>their dudes fluff
A battalion of Death Guard sent away from the main Legion force to subjugate worlds to the will of the Warmaster and tocommit increasingly horrifying atrocities to try and provoke the loyalist Shattered Legions and White Scars into open battle. The Praetor is a former child soldier from Barbaras who's faith in his Primarch is slowly being worn as he goes to further lengths to justify what he's doing to bring about the overthrow of the tyrant Emperor. They finally bite off more than they can chew and get caught by a roving Imperial Fists retribution force and by the time they've extricated themselves they've missed the Legion muster for the jump to Terra. They reach the siege, see what's become of their father and brothers and peace the fuck out. They become a blackshield warband who try to strike out on their own while avoiding their former brothers and Imperial vengeance during the Scouring.

>>50081689
Exactly.

A Moritat has high damage potential, even with the Chainfire Overheat in place. That doesn't change.

But with it in place, because even if you are still hitting with one pistol and the other over heats it stops BOTH pistols, it makes Moritats crap. Their other pistol options are bolt and volkite. Neither being worth it.

There needed to be a limit on total hits, 12 is fine, technically infinite was not. Before that if that Chainfire overheat only stopped that one pistol even that would have been fine. But stopping BOTH pistols at once AND limiting to 12 hits is way too big of a nerf.

Adding other pistol options would be a start. I would settle for Archeotech in a heartbeat and never look at a plasma pistol again. There's plenty of other AP2 shooting in the game.

Removing Chainfire Overheat or at the very least stopping only the pistol that overheated would make them good again. Because they max out at 12 hits. It was the power to go above 12 that made them broken originally. I hit 70somethign times with Kaedes Nex before. That's insane.

>>50081735
>>50081735
I know, but I don't think I will be using that scheme. Black on it's own can get boring fast plus I'm not good enough to replicate the level of heraldry I've seen in the photos.

>>50081751
Nice model and fluff. My guts thank you.

>>50081751
Nice

So the Headhunter upgrade kit comes with a couple of 'spare' Power Daggers that you can use for other minis. That's cool.

>>50081763
nanyte blaster moritat is still game breaking

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>>50079596
World Eater Apothecaries got Nails. Pic related.

Also there's a plot point in the Kharn book where Dreagher has to train up a human medic coz all his remaining Apothecaries got killed in the fighting pits.

>>50081763

The real killer moritat is the BA double-inferno. The range on his guns is tiny (just 6"), but BA can guarantee T1 deep strike with shrouded for him, and it's a pretty sure bet that when they get their full rules some time in the 31st millennium, and presuming that they don't nerf him, someone or something is likely to be able to reduce scatter.

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I'm bored and autistic so I decided to make a small program that simulates Moritat shooting. Pic related is the result after one million rounds of shooting.

>>50082105

I though the rule was that everyone got nails, and all the librarians' heads exploded as a result.

>>50082120

So about 3 cataphractii or 4 tartaros on average. Not the end of the world.

>>50082118

Oh, forgot to mention that inferno pistols ID marines, for that extra threat against high-value targets.

>>50082168
33% chance to get 12 hits is very noteworthy though.

>>50080795
Your most ardent suppourter is from the homeland
>>50081109
Nope too busy this weekend with uni

>>50082273

Very true, it's the statistically most likely outcome. Given that a moritat will get killed the next turn most of the time, what you're really looking at is that in one in three games you'll get your 12 hits, the rest of the time it'll average 5 or so.

why does a naked recon squad cost more than a vet tactical squad who can do the exact same thing

>>50082125
Librarians psychic powers would fuck with the nails, so they'd channel it into the nearby area causing their brothers nails to over react, from then on they would extensively test recruits, and if they had a wiff of psychicness they would be shipped to the librarius. Read Betrayer, it's actually a really good book

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ITS JUST SO GODDAMN PERFECT
I NEED SOMETHING MORE PERFECT

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>>50082518

Why can't we take them in squadrons REEEEEEEE

>>50082518
>take a squadron of sicarians with sponsons
>or take a fellblade

>>50081209
Iron Hands Company Pre-Istvaan, 275th Battalion 1st Company. All MKIII, Lieutenant Commander leading Gorgon Terminators, the works. Goal is to get 100 Marines and the motor pool, and after that i'll probably work on another legion like the Death Guard.

>>50081343
Better without than within, I guess. Here's hoping you get over the forest-curse soon, brother.

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>>50082565
>Sicarian
Learn to fucking read you shit. I bet you say "Emporer," too.

Fuck

>>50082647
legion sicaricariacain tanks

>>50081751
Noooo poor DG. This is grimsad.

>>50082568
sounds cool, what happens to your dudes during the heresy?

>>50081751
clean DG actually look realy cool
kudos m8

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>>50082647
sangunus
Conrad Kurze
Mortaron
perturbed-o
Fairest Manners
Horse

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>>50082105
Heyyy, that looks very similar to the Gainspriest World Eater conversion.

>>50081109
I am. With my girlfriend who had no interest whatsoever and will force me to leave after an hour.

>>50082518
I prefer the venator variant.

>>50082697
You mean konrad cruze.

>>50082697
The Horsey Heresy, the day Arby's ran out of sauce

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>>50082718
>going to WHW with your girlfriend

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>>50082697
>>50082721
Conrad Cruz :^)
I'll do pic related to whoever writes Perterabo or Mortarian, though.
Perterabo and Mortarian

>>50082729
Also, you gotta read it in Kaurava's announcer's voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGiNE-FmrLM

>>50082647
>sicarian
>preator
>emporer
>apathocary
>horus hersey
>macaldor
>mor deathyan

Those are some I caught this last week or so.

>>50081751
Very crisp and clean, how did you do it?

>>50082518
>looks like a Ssur Nemal
>prominent driver's seat for easy targeting
>turret at the back for enhanced hull vulnerability
>perfect

Don't think so, Tim.

>>50082747
Me, every fucking time:
>carybdis
No. That's not it.
>kharrib
No.
>khrybydys
Aargh.
>kharabdys
>kharybdis
>kha-
FUCK IT
>big drop pod

>>50082797
>>kharybdis
This is correc, though.

>>50082697

>laernen
Also if the sicaran is a little overpriced now, is the venator still good?

>>50082747
>apathocary
that could just be a weird accent

>>50082612
The forests of Tennessee didn't even do anything to me unless the curse is still lingering. It's most likely a stomach virus, but we are dealing with trees here. Wasn't as bad as Monday though.

>>50082823
But it feels like when someone writes than instead of then, or writes "should of".

>>50082891
I have heard enough dumb regional accents to not be phased by people pronouncing vowels strangely

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Are Legions forced into being Loyal or Traitorous? I like the idea of a group of Sons of Horus being lead by Loken who are still loyal despite Horus.

>>50082950

They specifically say that every legion had both traitors and loyalists, so feel free to do traitor imperial fists or loyalist alpha legion.

Loyalist SoH is flatly canon, the events of Galaxy in Flames are the subject of the first black book and that's all about loyalist SoH/EC/DG/WE fighting their traitor brethren on Isstvan

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>>50082950
They very much are not - all the legions were spread out to some degree or another, and said to have at least some contingent that went the other way.

The hardest ones are the Word Bearers, but even those are just about justifiable with garrisons, lost units and units detached to loyalist legions

>>50082950
Only Word Bearers are forced to be traitors. All others are free to choose, but some lose/gain depending on loyalty.

>>50082990
And even then, they're not forced to be traitor, they just can't take special units.

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>>50082950
No first you select your legion then you pick if your traitor or loyal. Unless your Word Bearers in which case you have to be traitor

The only thing that changes depending on your allegiance is access to certain units, what hatred you get hit by and WE have special I'M SUPER ANGRY NOW rules


On an unrelated not does anyone have the RG equivalent of this?

>>50082995
Actually they lose their LA rules as well. Word Bearers MUST be traitor.

>>50082995
They can still take the Ashen Circle can't they?

>>50082923
Aww, it happens the other way around with me. I didn't like what people think of the coastal accent, so I pretty much lack an accent myself. I now live in the center and I hate these guys' accent with all my strenght. The same has happened with the north, the capital city and Ecuador. I simply point out accents easily and hate them insctintively.
And thing is I'm aware people aren't speaking that way to annoy me, that's simply how they talk, and it's dumb and pointless to be upset by it. But I have to consciously remind myself of that fact, even when I READ accents like "cheers", "mate" and "y'all".
It saddens me that I get angry at irrelevant stuff whilst being aware it's irrelevant. It's like being part of armour autism when (You) know all legions used all armour patterns, you know what I'm talking about?

>>50083044
No. Word Bearers must be taken as traitors, it's part of their rules as of AoD legions.

>>50082518
Tankfags make me sad.

I am bored to fucking death by vehicles, love specialist infantry. Yet I will be template wiped by vehicle mounted weaponry and artillery every fucking game.

>>50082995

They actually must be traitors per the new red book.

However, loyalist WBs can be accurately and fluffily played as black shields, which will probably be more fun for you anyway considering that the old rules for loyalist WBs were worse than picking no legion at all

>>50083078
Show them the power of infantry, anon. Deepstrike and Melta their asses off. Fast Attack choices are a great source of anti-tank too.
What legion are (You)?

>>50082694
They're in Istvaan, which goes about as well as you expect. While the number of Immortals in the company stays near the same (mostly due to the loss rate keeping up with the men joining the ranks as companies merge), the remaining Gorgons near almost a full Company since their armor kept them alive more than the regular MKIII did. Most of the Battalion itself dies out during the rest of the Heresy, going against a World Eaters Battalion multiple times in a single system, Medusan Immortals holding the front and back lines while suicidal Land Raider advances try to break the World Eaters, spilling out the fatalist Gorgons in counter charges.

I like to think of the Iron Hands having very little left after the Heresy, and so only a few dozen of the legionaries would have survived to join other Battalions, who almost certainly died during the Scouring.

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>>50083006
>RG equivalent

>>50082995
>>50082990
>>50083060
>>50083090
But they are specifically called out as being eligible for the Orphans of Betrayal RoW.

They may technically RAW be Traitor only but RAI you can have loyalist WBs.

>>50081735
Partially wrong.
Individual detachments of Dark Angels that had been separated from their home for many years had started using green.

>>50083139
It's not paint. Caliban stayed with them, and grew tiny forests on their armours, which they try to hide using cloaks. That is their secret shame.

>>50083139
I thought it was those after the heresy loyal to the Lion painted themselves green so they wouldn't shoot themselves accidentally?

Speaking of reductors:

Hq 150
Magus, machinator array 150

Elites: 560
Tech priest (enginseers) 2 adepts and 8 servitors, 4 servo arms, 4 flamers 145pts
-dedicated triaros 135
Tech priest (enginseers) 2 adepts and 8 servitors, 4 servo arms, 4 flamers 145pts
-dedicated triaros 135

Troops: 730
3 thallax, Irad cleanser 145
-dedicated triaros 135
3 thallax, Irad cleanser 125
-dedicated triaros 135
10 adseculars 35
-dedicated triaros 135

Heavy support: 1560
3 artillery tanks, machine spirit, siege plating, demolishers 360pts
3 artillery tanks, machine spirit, siege plating, Helios missiles 330pts
3 artillery tanks, machine spirit, siege plating, melta cannons 390pts
3 artillery tanks, machine spirit, siege plating, collosus bomards 480pts

3000pts

>>50083060
What if you're playing in the Great Crusade instead of the Age of Darkness?

>>50083132

Man if someone wanted to subject themselves to the loyalist WB rule I won't stop them, they're in enough pain

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>>50083132
Agreed, it's this bit of text causing trouble, even when HH6 says that you can use Orphans of betrayal with them. In fact the Ashen circle and Chaplains both predate Lorgar
FW, contradicting each other.

>>50083171
Wolf King explicitly involves the Wolves finding a Dark Angel star fortress where the marines there have painted their armor green. Russ comments on the abnormality.

>>50083132
Orphans of Betrayal actually doesn't say anything about playing Loyalists.

>>50083175
17 tanks? Ouch.

What would you actually be using for the Artillery tanks?
Thunderer?, ?Manticore maybe?, ? Hellhound maybe?, regular Colossus?

>>50083191
this, if you're playing as WB's against xeno / seccesionists then go right ahead and count yourself as loyal and say its a great crusade game.

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>>50083229

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>>50083229
Indeed. So, use WB rules as traitors and simply don't take anything daemon.

>>50083191
Problem with that is that The Horus Heresy isn't set in the Great Crusade.

>>50083132
>but RAI
but the word bearers killed/brainwashed their problematic individuals long before the heresy kicked off

>>50083269
Be flexible, man

>>50083160
Do you think the Lion cut off his dick thinking it was a tree and his pubes were the leaves? He might be that autistic.

>>50083269
Yeah but it doesn't say anything about having to pick loyalist

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>IW retconned to have have Dark Angels tier amount of loyalists

How does this make you feel?

>>50083280
So? Then you use the Crusade Army list. It's only out of date if you're updating your army as the Heresy continues, rather then playing at one point in time. They're not codices where each one is a new edition of the last.

>>50083132
RAI Lorgar hunted down each and every loyalist 50 years before the Heresy. He spent a quarter of the Great Crusade purging loyalists.

>>50083318
then why is the crusade army list no longer available from FW?

>>50083313
Makes sense. While Pert obviously went traitor along with a large portion of the legion, how many were left as garrisons for years, far away from the rest of their legion? As probably the most widespread legion, it doesn't come as a surprise at all.

>>50083313
Prove it. Anecdote of IW loyalists is not enough.

>>50083236
I would make a master out of plasticard and resin cast them

forgeworld doesn't want you to know how easy it is to make models yourself, especially large vehicles

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>>50083302
No, I don't think so.

>>50083339
What are Silver Skulls

>>50083302
That isn't autism and even if he did have it he wouldn't do that.

>>50083350
Ultramarines who served alongside Barabas Dantioch and took his visage as their insignia after his death.

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>>50083307
Let me help you; You see, in FW land, this counts as rules.

>>50083339

Black books specifically talk about how many IWs ended up staying loyal because nobody ever came back for them at their forgotten strongholds

That ended up being a fuck load

>>50083350
1,000 marines compares to the tens of thousands who turned against the Lion, or even the Khan.

>>50081424
Hey Nusquam.

>>50083373
Son, you have to be literate to play this game, it specifically says
>Players are, OF COURSE, free to use ANY Rite of War with ANY Legion as Loyalists OR Traitors

>>50083339
>Prove it.
>Proof of IW loyalists is not enough.
I know you're saying "the testimony of a few loyal IWs doesn't mean a third of the legion was loyal", and I agree with you.
But remember we have confirmed loyal Warsmiths. Those are officers that outrank even regular Praetors and Chapter Masters, and many were scattered among the stars. Auric Saxton (Hale) is only mentioned once, and it's not even in the IW section, but in the EC's exemplary battle killing the now-traitor protagonist.
So, while there isn't a legion-full of loyalists, there are several chapters worth of them.
>>50083369
Riiiiiight.

>>50083269
You missed the part where it says right there "players are, of course, free to use any Rite of War with any legion as loyalists or Traitors"

Which only brings up more questions as many rites say "loyalists/ traitors only"

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>>50083387
'Sup

>>50083406
>>50083408
Only helps my point.

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>>50083408
I'M CALLING A STOP HERE.
NOBODY IS CERTAIN.
BE SURE TO AGREE WITH YOUR OPPONENT NEXT TIME YOU ACTUALLY PLAY THAT.
>>50083424
No (I'm) not. That post was about Iron Warriors, not WBs.

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>>50083409
>TFW my BoP is still in transit
>It probably arrives to the flgs tomorrow or on Saturday but I'm going to be out of town

Life is suffering.

Anybody else started working on those plastics?

>>50083424
How? The only way you can take WBs is as traitors, and that rite allows either traitors or loyalists, so therefore if you include WBs in that rite you would have to take them as traitors.

>>50083406
Dantioch was given Ultramarines to command. He did not have Iron Warriors left by the end of Sotha. So even if the Silver Skulls are Iron Warriors, they wouldn't have come from Dantioch directly.

>>50083457
Have faith, Word Bearer.

>>50083408
I feel like Legion specific and and Loyalty specific RoWs are exemptfrom this.

>>50083457
Ironfire should have totally had a rule where you can deliberately target a unit in combat and if its a blast it won't scatter like Karamazov

>>50082728
Not him, but mine likes looking at the painted models and the massive displays. We don't live local, so when I go to WHW she comes with, we make it part of a weekend away or whatever.
She doesn't let me leave her alone for anytime anymore though, coz of some horrendous chat that's happened in the past.

She'll come in the shop with me as well or look at the models in the window, if the mini cases are farther in than the window she won't go further. Other dudes browsing in the shops are always cool, for some reason it's the guys painting further back that glare or start huffing or muttering about girls.

>>50083558
Is there a way to combine that idea with Militia helpers? Idk, Dark Compliance or stuff like that. That's what the bulk of the IW did, right?
>>50083480
Not a single one left? I was thinking more like Silver skulls had both geneseeds, the depleted IWseed suplemented, but not combined, with UMseed, resulting in UM majority but still some IW elements being found there.

>>50083113
Alpha Legion, so trust me, I'm taking two Saboteurs, and Dynat is my Warlord. I'm even giving my Lernaeans Conversion Beamers and specifically deploying them to get max range. Just haven't tried it yet because obviously still building.

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>>50082923
>mfw no-one understands why Macragge sounds hilarious

The Fist of Macragge still makes me laugh.

I can't find the Burning of prospero painting book in the links, is it not shared yet? Or, which is also possible, am I just too stupid and its there and I have not seen it?

>>50083606
Considering Nuceria isn't too far away from Macragge, it would have been hilarious if Angron had landed there instead of Guilliman and the planet had been renamed McRage.

>>50082550
Because then they'd outclass predators entirely at high point games

>>50081209
It's a grand company, lead by Donut Steel Praetor, they were the artillery company that would be used to raise the IF fortresses at Phall, had they fortified and not boarded. Another reason I picked Phall was so it makes sense that I have Golg on the table

>>50081214
>>50081260
Go back to Namefagging so I can filter your shit out more easily AWG

>>50083640
No full scans yet, but if you want a specific legion I'll screenshot a pic for you when I get back from my lecture in about an hour, unless another anon beats me to it.

>>50083600
I'm not sure about the Lernean bit, but the rest of it sounds nice. As in, Dynat also affects dreads, and now Chainfists are regular non-specialist weapons, and Cortus dreads are a thing, and Dynat only affects people and dreads inside the enemy's deployment zone while your termies are on the other side of the field.
And he also gived rerollable Deepstrike to an infantry unit.
I know you simply want to use Lerneans, I'm just saying. They wield Volkite chargers and have WS5, I don't know, they could get shit done in melee, especially because they can get a Dreadclaw DT unlike, say, Deathshrouds.

>>50083700
Woah dude, even if it is him, what's wrong with saying you have a lot of minis and you love to collect stuff?
I'd ask (You) to namefag in order for your shit to be filtered out, but that'd simply entitle you more.

>>50083710
Well if you would be so nice, I would want the Word Bearers one

>>50081525
>if you meant mk7
This is only made on mars during the siege in HH, Raven guard were not there
>if you meant mk6
Corax was an egalitarian when it came to treatement of the Raven Guard. Post istvaan theres small bands everywhere that can easily be wiped out by the massive traitor forces. So yes even mooks get mk6

>>50083746

red spray, black trim, wash with nuln oil. They are all basicly the same formula which is sad and leads to all the legions looking similar

>>50082721
No I think he meant Conrad Cruise, Tom's attempts to convert him to Scientology didn't fare well for any party

>>50082950
AoD legions says only word bearershave to be traitor, but they can also take a RoW only loyalists can.
Some special characters and units can only be taken by one side.
IN CONCLUSION yes you can play loyalist SoH, but if you explain your army properly I'll let you do anything.

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>>50083746
What about something like this?
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/236305-the-sekhmet-hh-emperors-children-wb-chaplain-21116/page-73#entry4377320

>>50083727
What's wrong with some guy saying he finds the dude who repeatedly posts that he intends to buy 1,000 marines (half of which resin btw in case you forgot) before taking a knife, glue or paint to literally any of it, a fucking lame-o?

>>50083078
>WAAH why isn't everyone else playing this game historically, White Scars never fought Ultramarines
This is Fictional Historical gaming, not historical gaming

/tg/ I plan on playing Thousand Sons once they get released but in the meantime what is a good legion to play that is closest to being like them?

>>50083719
I'm thinking two ten man Lernaeans squads as the core troops choices of my PotL list for my AL, and given their proficiency in CQC I'm certainly kitting out one squad with powerfists, chainfists and plasma blasters. The other I'll leave naked except for the Conversion beamers. I just dream about deep striking them via Dynat in precisely the right area to lay down those max range Conversion Beamer hits at just the right moment. It's so fucking fluffy that I've fallen for the obvious trap choice of the Beamers. I totally appreciate the words of caution, I know it's not totally tactically sound, I just can't resist.

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>>50083746

>>50083302
Reminds me of the cyclist I knew, who castrated himself so he would be more aerodynamic and sit more comfortably. the cleaner found his parts under the bed the next week, slowly rotting.

if I give a unit that has a DT the deep strike rule separately can they deep strike their DT

>>50083866
Wtf are you talking about, I've specifically made fun of the moron you're greentexting about. I just hate the way people talk about tanks as like this essential part of the game and that every time I post a specialist infantry list as is my preferred playstyle, I get people telling me it doesn't hit hard enough because it's not chock full of fucking whirlwinds and sicarans and land raiders and shit.

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>>50083863
What's wrong with saying some dude is wrong for saying another dude is wrong, huhhh?
Nothing, I guess. But he was bullying the other dude, so I thought I'd make him unconfortable a little as well.

>>50083879
Just play vanilla Legion, it's like 2-3 months to wait, use the time to make Bolter dudes or transport vehicles or whatever.

>>50083879
Just play generic legion, except all your characters can buy ML1 for 25 points. And your Librarians and Praetors can buy up to ML3

>>50083911
No, funny though the mental image of a land raider on the teleport pad is.

Considering starting up with 30k from 40k, in your gaming group, how acceptable is it to use Land Speeder Typhoons as Javelin Attack Speeders? I love my typhoons, but I don't want to spend 70 bucks each for the 30k version.

Also, here's my list that I'm planning on starting with for 1000 points.

Alpha Legion - Pride of the Legion - 1000

Autilon Skorr - 125

5 Legion Cataphractii Terminators w/ Banestrike Ammo, 5x Power Fists + Power Dagger on Sergeant - 225

10 Legion Veterans w/ Rhino, 2x H. Bolter + Sergeant w/ Arti Armor, Power Fist, Power Dagger - 265
10 Legion Veterans w/ Rhino, 2x H. Bolter + Sergeant w/ Arti Armor, Power Fist, Power Dagger - 265

Javelin Attack Speeder w/ H. Bolter, TL Cyclone Missile Launcher - 55
Javelin Attack Speeder w/ H. Bolter, TL Cyclone Missile Launcher - 55

That leaves 10 points for either a pair of Hunter Killer Missiles on the speeders, a pair of Chainfists on the Terminators, or a hidden Power Axe in a vet squad.

Thoughts on the list? Considering dropping the Rhinos and some upgrades to throw in a 5 man Vet squad with a ML to sit on a back objective.

>>50083727
Because he's going to clip them all off, and then we discover he doesn't know what mouldlines are, paints light to dark coats rather than highlighting, adds too much plastic glue shows 'battle damage' by stabbing them repeatedly with clippers and uses plastic glue to melt the face

And then says 'why are you being so rude, plastic is plastic'

>>50080402
Yeah no, it is mostly going to be MK III and MK II marines.
Contrary to what so many think, I'm not on here to bait people, not with my posts and certainly not with my name.

>>50083879
Make a blood angel Assault Cannon army, every unit apart from HQ must contain at least one assault cannon

which pattern is the one in 40k, and how heretical would it be to use the 40k ass cannon, provided i sculpted on tassels

>>50083964
That's a point, do the plastic dudes in BAC/BOP have paired arms (each right arm only goes with a specific left arm)? Most GW plastic kits that have come out recently do this. If so, clipping all those marines out of their sprues will turn out to have been a really, really stupid thing to do.

>>50083911
Nope, 5th edition Dante will never again exist

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>>50083909
WHAT THE FUCK

>>50083944
That's not a bad idea, I'll see if my group will let me do that.

>>50084007
They really didn't change much, it's okay to use those assault cannons.
Where most people throw a fit is when people use 40k armor.

>>50083918
If you don't want to be told you die to artillery then include that in your post, and if that's all people comment then that means your list is great for a fun game with friends

>>50083961
I'd use Tartaros (or Indomitus) over Cataphracti so that they can run/overwatch and try to get in a Chainfist or two.

>>50083961
>how acceptable is it to use Land Speeder Typhoons as Javelin Attack Speeders
You want the powerful model, pay up, this is a game of the gentry or the creative not for the dull Plebs.
But apart from that drop the Cataphracti as they can't deepstrike so will die turn 2 or 3 before getting into combat. With them dropped you can take another Javelin and an honour guard for Skorr, and maybe a rhino

>>50083961
On a scale of 1-Primarch how autistic is the group you play with? I wouldn't be mad if you use the same type of model from 40k-30k.

A terminator as a terminator
Marine as marine
Rhino is a rhino

As long as you aren't gaining an advantage you can do it. If you use a larger model to represent a smaller one i won't really complain.

30k= fun 40k= min/max faggotry that's about seeing who can win. I forge that motherfucking narrative in 30k

>>50083961
If you played me, I'd let you play with the proxy javelins for a few games, but if you save up to buy a more expensive model then buy plasticard or go back to 40k

>>50084121
>As long as you aren't gaining an advantage you can do it.
Read the profiles and tactica for 30k landspeeders and javelins, and then read the spoiler big fucking difference eh laddie

>>50081209
My force is an Ordo Reductor armoured unit, they have their own smallish cruiser and respond to Ork WAAAGH! incursions against Mechanicum worlds, backed up by a contingent of Loyalist Death Guard (not my army, but me and him ally in 2v2 games so often it made sense). This means that force is largely artillery or armoured vehicles, so I only need around 30 units max and am currently only about 1/4 of the way there, Triaros are a bit expensive.

As an aside, this doctrine was also extremely effective when encountering the World Eaters during the Heresy. The tactic of using expendable Adsecularis screens proved effective against the raging berserkers, and even more tactical opponents have little room to manoeuvre under the constant tide of bodies and Phosphex as the automata and the Grave Wardens, hardly looking different to their mechanical counterparts, close in unhindered.

>>50084183
I don't mean the rules.
I mean the size of the stupid model

>>50081424
Soooooo are you planning to get rid of the mold lines at some point?

>>50083961
Why not field them as regular land speeders then?

>>50080821
Only a small extract.

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>>50081343
My Emperor's Children are the 300th Great Company, devoutly loyal to Fulgrim. Though many battle brothers have never even met their Gene Father, his perfection is legendary. They were sent to crusade independently from the main legion. At the outbreak of the heresy they sided with their primarch, utilizing the world's they brought to heel for the Warmaster. Any loyalist in the legion were not killed, but reduced to low functioning bodies in Dreadnoughts. Due to their isolation, there is no corruption in the company; though a Lucid Blade was gifted to their Company Champion and the whispers are starting to be heard.

>>50084253
>why proxy for something that has better rules than WYSIWYG
Hmm, I don't know anon, might have to ressurect Sherlock

>>50084253
That's a good suggestion instead of using them as Javelins

>>50084270
That gold could use a touch-up, Anon, but thanks for cheering me and my guts up.
>any loyalists in the legion
Company you mean?

>>50084253
>>50084301
>>50084308

That's what I would do, but there isn't an option for a Typhoon in 30k. The closest approximation would be a Javelin or a normal speeder with a Havoc Launcher.

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>>50084270
Please tell me you're not leaving him like this

>>50084301
Don't get pissy at me when you're the one who want's to proxy them as something different purely because you want the better option.

Next you want to use regular whirlwinds as scorpius whirlwinds and Phobos land raiders as spartans.

>>50084362
So field them as Havoc Launcher speeders.

>>50084235
Not him, but what's the best way to do that?

>>50084378
I'm not the guy with the AL list, I'm saying he should be using the appropriate model, even if scratch built.

plastic was mistake- John french

>>50084427
Have no fear, gamesworkshop is here
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Citadel-Mouldline-Remover
And here's a demonstration by /wips patron saint Duncan https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=0gl3rtYWhP4

>>50084445
I don't respect the opinions of Mr. Decimation

>>50083006
Anyone have the full painting guide for all the legions? Failing that, anyone got the White Scars one?

>>50084008
Yes they do.

>>50084378

It's not that it's the better option, it's the literally closest option.

>>50083463
I bought my box on the release day, been too busy with work and shit, so I've only build a Custode and a mkIII dude. I got some paint on the gold boy as well. It's a brilliant box.

>>50080602
wish he had a miniature.

Although I'm gonna have a great time converting him anyways

>>50084007
The Assault cannon upgrade set is going to come out soon.

Also, IF can take them too, yet everyone only speaks about BA?

>>50083457
From Iron Cometh Kek.

>>50084493
I don't understand why you guys don't like 'the decimation', IW are Great War theme. In the Great War generals were court marshalled by their kings for being glory seekers, so it makes sense

>>50084535
>Also, IF can take them too, yet everyone only speaks about BA?
Fists can only take them in Termy squads. Blood Angels can take them anywhere they have a heavy flamer. Ten-man heavy weapons squad? Contemptor with Assault cannons inside its fists? Pintle mounts? You name it, our boys in red can put six barrels of rending retardation on it.

>>50084520
>literally closest option

Because of one weapon, which isn't even the same weapon (TL CML vs. Typhoon ML)? Sure, lets just ignore the different armour, larger profile and entirely different visual elements.

>>50083961

Javelins are completely different vehicles from land speeders but the good news is that regular land speeders have their own rules and everything in 30k too

>>50084535
Because IF replace terminator heavy flamers with Ass cannons, whereas BA replace heavy flamers with Ass cannons. So you can have a predator with 4 ass cannons, or a Contemptor with chainfist, DCCW, and two assault cannons, you can also do this to Cortus so have a Cortus Mortis now if that isn't the sickest shit you've ever seen then I don't know what will impress you

>>50084560
Because it's sort of dumb on its own. Yes, it did transform the IVth into killers that are aware of their own mortality, but Perty should also taught them to make each death be extremely costly to the enemy.

>>50084595
Technically Javelins are landspeeders, just a more evolved form, also you can't take a cyclone missile launcher on normal landspeeders, nor can you take Wards wetdream for your scouts

>>50084489
Thanks man.

>>50082815
The venator fills a completely different role of a single chance of saying "fuck you" to your opponent's heaviest vehicle with no sponson support, compared to the sicaran's "fuck you" to your opponent's medium vehicles and heavy infantry and with lascannon sponsons.

>>50084662

>single chance

I mean it shoots twice

>>50084652
Are you actually going to buy it? That was supposed to be sarcasm, just use the back of your knife next thread you'll ask me for a link to GW sand

>>50084715
Where does GW get their sand?
It's not pasty enough to be British sand.

Anyone have the fan made orky primarch rules? Can't remember if they were for The Beast or the Overfiend of Ullanor.

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>>50084768

>>50084270
Oh god those poses, what are you doing man

>>50084736
Probably Egypt, wouldn't be suprised if GW founders have family in the embassy there
REE give us back our canal and empire

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>>50084768
And another one.

>>50084703
Single chance as in "if you don't get an explosion, it ain't dead". Regular sicarans mostly glance shit to death.

>>50084647
>Technically Javelins are landspeeders, just a more evolved form

So are Attack Bikes to bikes, but are you gonna make an attack bike unit out of regular bikes?

>you can't take a cyclone missile launcher on normal landspeeders

But you can take Havoc Launchers, thus having some use for those typhoon launchers.

>>50084792
The flavour text reads like it was written by a 12 year-old.

>>50084887
So do the rules.

>>50084792
>>50084810
Thanks, guys

>>50084715
No, I was just giving you a (You) because you went to effort. My autism wouldn't let me ignore you because you actually did something other than just type out a quick shitpost. If it helps, I did feel awkward about it.

>>50084489
Even my local redshirt said I shouldn't buy this, it's that pointless.

So I've been using a legion list in games vs 40k armies, and I'm finding my lists to be pretty weak, I'm mostly running Pride, with two units of vets in rhinos and two contemptors one is a mortis and the other either a cortus or a generic with two ccws. I also usually take some terminators and a praetor. I use the stubborn legion trait until inferno comes out. Games are usually around 1500.

I usually just feel like I have less on the board than my opponent and dont hit very hard. I get that 40k is almost silly with the shit that goes on but even so my lists feel kind of lacking, what would you invest in to give it more punch? Im considering dropping the vets and just running tacs, being cheaper with all the low ap and D floating around in 40k. I like the idea of 2 20man blobs with apothecaries marching up the field.

What legion have you seen at your local game store the most, and least?

>>50085066
>Most
Word Bearers
>Least
Everything that isn't IF, WB, S, NL or IH

>>50085018
It's mostly a points problem. 30k is menat to be played at 2k+.

>>50085018
Drop pod seeker squads will piss people off.

>>50085066
My local store has must legions represented, with about 2 of each average. I think I'm the 4th person to start up SoH tho lately. Most players are that regular so we get a lot of the same few loyalists and traitors in campaigns without much overlap.

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>>50085066
Most, AL and IW followed by WE
I have seen a couple of Salamanders, some IF, some EC, some SoH, a single guy with BA
I have yet to see WS or DA

>>50085137

>425

Fuck no. That nigga's around 600 at least.

>>50085175
>600 points
>For a unit that can get shot to death by grav kataphrons in one turn

>>50085218

>30k

>>50085137
with 8 wounds and IWND+FNP that shit is close to crazy, I mean 6 wounds and closer to primarch stats I would understand but this is crazy no to mention >>50085175

>>50085224
>orks
>30k

>>50085218
Besides Mortarion, what other non-vehicle in the game survives Grav Kataphrons? Hell, I think not even vehicles survive them. Mmmmm, Grav Kataphrons.
But Myrmidon Destroyers are sexier.

>>50084840
I've seen it done, guy had a mounting for the heavy weapon behind the driver's seat. A bit like the old Reaver Jetbikes.

Same guy also had Jetbike Samael modeled as an Attack Bike.

>>50085230
*Scoria hefts Vodian Sceptre*
Bring it, greenskin.
>>50085288
So true. I love my Gravaphrons, but 3 Destroyers + Magos Reductor all with Graviton Imploders in a Triaros is my go-to command squad if Scoria isn't on the field.

>>50085266
>i2

Is it best when using Decapitation Strike to do multiple simultaneous deep-strikes or spamming flying Darkwings with Vets in them?

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Will Saul Tarvitz ever get a model?

Will Fabulous Bill ever get rules?

>>50085316
Have you used the full range AP1 +1 to Vehicle/Building damage profile from the Magos Reductor? That stuff makes things explode on a 4+ if it penetrates. And he rerolls penetration.

>>50085018
>1500pts
AoD is balanced around 1750-3500, and you'll be weaker the lower you're playing at.
>no legion-specific rules or units
That alone is enough to make you feel weak in 30k, let alone 40k.
>pretty much only the stuff from BaC
It's a good box for your bread and butter scoring units but it's really lacking in high damage units such as artillery, land speeders, rapiers, sicarans, lightning/xiphon etc. and good delivery systems such as dreadclaw/kharybdis/dreadnought drop pods, storm eagle with reserve manipulation, spartan for a fuckhuge deathstar at fuckhuge points levels.
Also note that the above are very mobile or don't need LoS, that shit's important for winning games.
>I like the idea of 2 20man blobs with apothecaries marching up the field.
Everyone does, anon. Go for it.

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>>50085376
I think the Emperor actually forbid Magnus from doing sorcery because he was fraid he'd master Meme Magiks. Sadly, the breaching of Terra's psychic wards meant Magnus' incursion affected the past, shitting Heresy threads in M3.

>>50085389
What, with a Conversion Beamer? I would love to try that out, but our shop only has 4x4 tables so it's extremely hard to get full range without firing literally corner-corner.
I have to make do with far too many BS5 Preferrred enemy grav shots. Can he give that to anyone else?

>>50085376
Fabius and Lucius, probably. They're too iconic not to.

Tarvitz, his ship has sailed long ago. Only if an intern gets a sculpting assignment that no one will care about.

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FUCK TANKS AND HUGE SPARATANS AND MARINE WIPING TYPHONS.

I WANT FUCKHUGE ARMIES OF MARINES SHOOTING AND BEATING OTHER TO DEATH FOR THEIR BETRAYAL/LOYALTY.

HOW DO I PICK SOMETHING THAT CAN SURVIVE TYPHONS AMD VINIDCATORS AND SHIT

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Who /excited/ here?

>>50083899
Can you post the SoH page?

>>50085376
Maybe

If the next plastic box is Istvaan

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>>50085473
Sure, although I wouldn't use this scheme myself.

Anyone know if we'll get more heresy plastics in the normal boxes like after calth? May actually start a small 30k force of marines for funsies and just use normal rules

>>50085431
Kek, I always confuse Grav Imploders with Conversion beamers.
Yes, he can give the Master of Destruction rule to a single nearby Heavy/Ordnance weapon, but I don't know how that'd help Grav Imploders.
Reductor Magi seem to me like Big slow melee Guys. It's Ordinator Magi the ones what would be shooting given their attacks gain ArmourBane. But a tag team of Reductor + Ordinator, now that'd be admirable.

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>>50085497
Holy hell, that's way too pale... Almost looks like DG. Pic related was more what I was hoping for.

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>>50085532

>>50085544
Ah, thank you. Much better.

>>50085472
This man embodies the true spirit of 30k

Help him, his quest is noble.

>>50085473
Can't wait for another retcon.

>>50085528
Oh, it wouldnt help the GI much, but my Knight Errant or Thanatar might be a bit more appreciative :)

>>50085472
I...I don't know, man! IWs won't run if shot at, but that doesn't mean they'll survive being shot at. And DG are resilient against phosphex, not S10 templates. And IH resist small arms, not artillery.
And a full termie army means it won't be a fuckhuge army.
>>50085562
I'm trying!

>>50083887
Conversion Beamers still do a respectable amount of wounds at closer ranges. Specially if some infantery is bunched up a little. Not punching through power armour isn't that much of a drawback when they land 6-8 wounds.

>>50084207
The Javeling is almost twice the size of a normal Land Speeder, so proxying that shit won't fly.

>>50085472
Terrain friend, you need to play on places that aren't parking lots.

I'm not talking about cover either, just block that line of sight all up - can't shoot what you can't see.

Make them actually have to get in close, then meltabomb that shit up

>>50085598
Yeah, but for the cost of the squad of beamers I can grab a Krios that drops a large blast that DOES go through armour, on a tougher platform. Not opposed to beamer shenanigans, but I have enough artillery in a Reductor list.

>>50085465
>They're too iconic not to.
*cough*bjorn*cough*

They may make Bucius the Nocturnal and Gabius Guile, though.

>>50085642
>implying 30k players use terrain unless playing ZM

>>50085346
Darkwing are extra expensive. Focus on more deep strikes.

>>50085472
Infiltrating troops with rapier support can do alright, if you don't bunch up too much.

>>50085657
Wasn't saying Conversion Beamers are good, but they're just the coolest weapon around and I will defend the use of them to the end !

>>50085642
How much my man? HOW MUCH?

>>50085729
You want around fiddy trees.

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>Dadie do u loev me?

>stay strong Alpharius

>stay strong for Omegon

>>50085659
Wasn't Bjorn kind of a nobody during most of HH? Wasn't that the reasoning for making the model in BoP not!Bjorn?

>>50085726
Nah, I just really like the Mechanicum tanks, and I wish they cost less so I could actually get a decent number.
Plans were to get Basilisks and cut down the barrels for Reductor artillery, but i'm starting with Magos+3 Destructors + 2 Thallax Cohorts and maybe a Vulturax.

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>>50085788
>That spartan cast

Really makes me appreciate how good I got it with my own recast

>>50083313
>>50083335
Reminds me of the HH short story of a loyalist IW garrison fucking up a traitor IW assault force that included titans. That was a pretty good story.

>>50085803
>most of
Nah, they retconned him into being a random schlub for the tweest in Prospero Burns.

errywhere else he's literally Geigor, in looks and place in the legion.

>>50085397
This post, this is the kinda post I always hope to get when I ask questions. Thanks anon.

So with 2 blobs with apoths and two contemptors (because theyre awesome), I've a pretty slow force. Should I embrace this and pick up a big unit of terminators and a Primus, or run something a little faster? Or even go for something heavier? I'm kind of limited on what I have, I have a dreadclaw but I cant transport it properly at the moment, and I've really no heavy tanks.

I'm thinking of something along the lines of:

Praetor in cataphractii with paragon blade
Primus medicae in cataphractii

20 Tactical marines, extra ccw
-Sergeant with power fist

20 Tactical Marines, extra ccw
-Sergeant with power fist

10 Terminators, Cataphractii,
-4 twin lightning claws,
-2 lightning claw and combi bolter,
-2 power fist and combi bolter,
-1 chainfist and combi bolter
-Sergeant with chainfist and combi melta

Contemptor-mortis, twin Kheres, extra armour

Contemptor Talon, 1 with chainfist and power fist, flamer and plasma blaster

Thats about 1750.

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>>50085824
As in, you recasted it yourself or something?
>>50085855
Literally who?

>>50085642
>can't shoot what you can't see
IW danger march says no

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What have I done

>>50085507
>if you mean single boxes like 10 calth marines
Yes definetly
>if you mean a big box like calth
What sells is done more so buy more calth and you'll get more sets

>>50085865
Those tac blobs will get fucked up by artillery/rapiers/vindicators

Honestly footslogging isn't really an option at 1750, everything you have will just get avoided by the enemy, you're making it really easy for your opponent to pick his fights.

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>>50085868
yeah, it's a mystery

>>50085507
Don't buy the small boxes, just buy calth or prospero, anything else get of ebay, shit goes for pennies as long as the big box is available.

>>50086015

>not even important enough to get a contemptor after 10k years

>>50086036
>wanting to be an eggbot

>>50085824

If you think that's awful, you should see my fucking storm eagle


Granted I heard the legit ones aren't any better

>>50085472
Fortifications, use them as transports.

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>>50085824
Lucky bastard.

>>50085788
Hahaha, fuck. You think yours is bad?

>>50086036
>angry washing machine superiority 4life

>>50086094
Christ. They might as well give it the open-topped rule with gaps like that.

>>50085942
>40k CSM
>legion grave wardens

>>50086094
>>50085788
your recasts make me feel a bit better about my shit FW mis-caestus.

>>50085659
Apart from Bjorn is a scrub in black library 'verse, but Fabius bile, Qruze and Fabius are the big whigs in the 'verse that we think they are.
cant beleive you've been butt hurt for 7 years

>>50085824
I swear the post you're responding to has a LR proteus, not a spartan

>>50086119
There's a gap between the right side of the tank and the hull top big enough for me to stick a finger in.

Fuck me dead.

>>50086137

If it helps my recast sicaran and my genuine sicaran venator are both flawless, I think the old Spartan design and the storm eagle are JUST tier molding designs

>>50086181
Proteus doesnt have a front ramp, hence why it isnt an assault vehicle

>>50086149
>Bjorn is a scrub in black library 'verse
That's the thing though, black library 'verse OPENED with him being a wolf guard champion clawing up the sons on prospero. And they retconned it for one of the weakest plot threads in the series so far.

I don't even play wuffs. Also it's been nine years if we're going on Collected Vision's release. But yes, until BL stops the HH trainwreck, I will remain butthurt about them lying through their teeth about making a consistent and cohesive narrative

>>50086219
what are you even talking about

>>50086149
Bjorn is kind of a big deal in HH. Russ is clearly grooming him for command of the legion.

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>>50082982
>>loyalist alpha legion
>implying there are any traitor alphas

>>50083078
Footslogger here
There is a reason why tanks and artillery exist can you guess it?

>>50085018
I do the same, but I run tacticals instead, and I usually come out pretty ok - biggest problem is the lack of special weapons. abuse apotecharies, rapiers and the cheaper stuff and your easy access to power weapons and fists.

>people who make their own legion instead of just letting it lie
fucking special snowflake faggots

>>50083457
even traitor IWs hve a good head on them fuck WB

>>50085865
Footslogging tacticals are decent because they put out a noteworthy amount of shooting while being decently survivable for their points, especially if they can claim cover and/or have apothecaries.

Footslogging terminators are not very survivable at all relative to their costs and they're very much designed to get into combat, which tacticals aren't. You have to pay a premium for FNP through a primus medicae and you don't get "free" survivability through cover when you're already paying for having invulns, which all amounts to a giant, slow blob of sadness.

If you already have 10 terminators, What I'd recommend is to get a LR phobos or spartan alongside that dreadclaw so that turn 1 you can move up 12" (and turbo-boost 6" if you have nothing to shoot with machine spirit) while the dreadclaw drops down into a pincer maneuver, and your opponent suddenly has 4 well armoured vehicles to deal with, 2 of them containing dangerous payloads that he can't run away from. A dreadclaw with PF/CF terminators is also a great way to deal with cornerhumping artillery fags so that your tacticals won't die off over the course of 5 turns.
If you want your praetor to be in terminator armour and don't want to buy an expensive spartan, you could convert one of your regular termies into a cool-looking standard bearer to use in a 4-man terminator command squad to be able to squeeze into a LR or dreadclaw. On top of it being fluffy and visually cool, they get +1WS, +1W on the standard bearer, chosen warriors and a 6" fearless bubble for less than a 5-man squad of regular terminators. Unfortunately they lose implacable advance but hey, what can you do.

>>50085824
I've always thought the hull HBs don't belong on the Proteus/Spartan hull. Breaks the form. Stock Proteus looks nice and if Spartan had just been an extended Proteus hull (just like the original), it would have been fine. As is, it's just a weird off-shoot that uses fucking kraut space magic to cram in 150% more models than a similarly sized Phobos along with a shield generator and twice as many laser generators.

Extended Proteus hull (inc. the front ramp), slightly larger capacity (like 15 so you could have 5 terminators, a terminator character and a primarch, for example) and TL lascannon sponsons. That's be enough for me.

>"But what about blobs?"

Shouldn't the whole deal be that either you take blobs on foot, give them super-heavy transports, or compromise on the size of the unit? Spartans just lets you have that blob cake and transport it too.

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>>50086015
The funny thing here is that who I posted isn't Bjorn but Greigor...who looks almost fucking the same as Bjorn. Or at least as depicted in Bjorn's own Bjornought.

>>50086338
Because it's skullfuckingly obvious that as a model he's designed to resemble Bjorn so SW players can have a Bjorn model (and some rules) so they'll complain less about not getting either due to the continuity the company as a whole has developed for the game system.

>Space Wolves players
>Not complaining

Wishful thinking GW