Hektor Heresy

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zIbMDoKW5Lh-wWhmBRPUvhS576QJWXZQqYyFBq_nd-Q/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F1Stcjpj5d1sWulS8e7AhO0RNj7eYOHBVSf4eP8_T_Y/edit

Work continues on Brutus, Ork warband tomorrow.

>>50077509
So is this your way of making up for NaNoWriMo?

>>50077528
Uh-huh. Figure I could kill two birds with one stone. reach 50,000 words without cutting into /hkh/ time.

>>50077528
Actually just saw the topic title, ignore that.

Someone help me name my wizard lizards. Or suggest a naming structure for Tarellian forces actually, I'm bad with names.

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>>50077548
The Unteban. No "R" sounds, all about them guttural noises. That's how you know they're barbaric!

>>50077581
Cutting out certain sounds because of reptile/lizard/snake tongues sounds like a good idea.

Now to actually write to the point where Tarellian auxiliaries come into play.

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F1Stcjpj5d1sWulS8e7AhO0RNj7eYOHBVSf4eP8_T_Y/edit
1722 words. Now for the ork tribe.

>>50077691
>>50077581
>>50077548

Lets just rename the Tars to Lazarites.
I had some concepts on their biology and culture.

Quad-armed, somewhere between humans and space marines in terms of size.
I'm considering the concept of sexual dimorphism, in this case a female Lazarite actually being larger.

I had a concept on tattoo/scarification to signify family bloodlines.

First off, these markings are a series of names of previous ancestors, adorned with a notable deed or title, separated by line/ring.

The right arm is dedicated to an individuals Matriarchal line, refereed to as 'Totem of Honour'
To have a long list of names [rings] signifies a person to be of a long list of warlords, warriors and etc.
The warrior caste tend to stick with their own.

The left arm is from the patriarchial line, men are often accepted into a family, bearing their name as opposed to the human tradition.
Referred to as the "Totem of Kin." as it will carry many names of different families, in-other words, their relations/family allies.

The lower two arms are left for "personal accomplishment, instead the rings are filled with accomplishments and titles.
Eventually, upon reaching marriage/bonding a title/accomplishment would be chosen.

In terms of which gender is on which side, it can be switched either way.

>>50078353
Or warband. Or clan. Or whatever the fuck they are called.

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>>50078392
>Lets just rename the Tars to Lazarites.
REEEEEE
I actually don't mind changing the names, I just find it pretty lazy naming.

>everything else
Sounds good, I'll whip up a wiki page for them (if one doesn't already exist) and chuck that stuff in.

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>>50078392
I like it. So, which arm do they use to masturbate?

>>50078353
You're a scholar and an inspiration to us all sir. We can make this the most content packed month in the history of the setting, by thunder!

Think I'll hammer out the first draft of the Ordo Malleus Codex tonight.

Had an idea for an ork empire. They revere their warlord, the High Brute of Angor, as champion of Gork and Mork.

Thinking about heraldry for the Ordo Malleus's Chambre Militant.

It'll be knightly heraldry, with four main icons, one for each house.

I'm thinking
>Shield for puritans
>Something hopeful for tenaciousmarines (A sun? A Star to represent a goal? The Emperor's golden penis?)
>Possibly a shadow of a snake for the sneekymarines (maybe have a light-shadow contrast in their heraldry between the sneekycheekies and the tenaciousmarines?)
>Probably a kanji or a warring-states period japanese clan symbol for the Ronin. Maybe a 15th-16th era Buddhist or Shinto symbol?

>>50078663
>High Brute of Angor, as champion of Gork and Mork
Setting up a Ghazkhull, eh?

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>>50078730
>Something hopeful for tenaciousmarines (A sun? A Star to represent a goal? The Emperor's golden penis?)
A star would do. Or a torch to show the way and light up the night.
>Possibly a shadow of a snake for the sneekymarines (maybe have a light-shadow contrast in their heraldry between the sneekycheekies and the tenaciousmarines?)
An owl.
>Probably a kanji or a warring-states period japanese clan symbol for the Ronin. Maybe a 15th-16th era Buddhist or Shinto symbol?
>Zelda theme intensifies
>>50078748
Actually, more like an overfiend of Octarius, or Arch-Arsonist of Charadon. Like, his boyz literally worship him.

>>50078788
>A star would do. Or a torch to show the way and light up the night.
And to symbolize purity

>>50078788
>Or a torch to show the way and light up the night.
A torch, yes, that will work nicely.
>An owl
Owls are pussies.
Aint no one scared of an owl. They're also supposed to be no-nonsense ego-free warriors to solidify their opposition to khorne, so I think I'll stick with the shadow, just have their symbol be pure black. Plus that keeps a not to their history as having been started by blackshields, so that all works out.
>the triforce
How about no.

Honestly I should probably cut ronin (and possibly arbites now?) on deciding this.

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>>50078875
Maybe we should have just grey knights.

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>>50078917
We're actually going to have those. JUST BECAUSE YOU WON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT, the Puritan branch of the Adepts is pretty much 1 to 1 Grey Knights, and since we're running each Brotherhood as being about the size of a chapter, you actually end up with something pretty much Grey Knights+1, because now they have a bunch of badass equally elite allies to call on.

Plus they get the Titansword.

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjcoExgIorf-tN9BQ_rqi2FeFdLBCDlRjg2s8IlxjZo/edit

Technically it's the third, so I started on the Ork Empire of Angor.

>>50079258
I try to look at that and it asks me to get permission. halp

>>50079400
Fixed.

>>50078730
I'm off to work, but I'd like to (finally) share my ideas for the Big Four, in terms of tactics, heraldry, and house culture

If I may.

>>50080895
Since time is short and I don't want to get burried I'll just throw this out there

So all Houses Exemplar work to drive out emotion, it's how they go about it that distinguishes them.

>House Kensei
>Stern warriors sworn and strictly adherent to a Bushido like code. Meditate and train to gain clarity of mind and purity of soul.
>Japanese theme

>House Thalamos
>Replace rage, lust, fear, and hope with smug assureness. Hawkeye: The Adept Brotherhood. 1337 snipers and sneeky beekies, slipping away from Khornate assaults leaving nothing behind but smug snickering
>Greek or arab? Either way it takes a back seat to their tacticoolness

>House Pendrakon
>Descendants of the Knights Errant host, stepped in their lore and traditions. Stuffy puritans.
>Warhammer Fantasy Empire theme/Bretonnia theme with a little polish/prussian pizzaz. The most overtly knightly Adept House.

>House Dominicus
>Take blood angels. Remove the vampire bits. Ratchet up the guilt. Add more fire. Max out the Catholic themes. They train their minds through flagellation, stripping themselves of fear, anger, desire, and hope leaving only the will to fight, and die, for the Emperor. They view dying for the Emperor is a sacred duty and are otherwise "emo" because they failed to stop the heresy earlier. It makes sense to them.
>In penance they will purge and purge and purge until they can't any longer
>Blood Angels theme, with a more realistic and more encompassing Catholic theme.

>>50081013
The biggest problem I can see with these Houses is that I can't tell what their specialties are from your descriptions, except Thalamos, because you literally mentioned Khorne in the description.

>>50081144
Right, so House Kensei, being strict adherents to law, tradition, and order are natural enemies of Tzeentch, and excel n tackling his forces. Were Tzeentch is a random, roiling flame the Adepts of House Kensei are a surging tide to put out the flames. They avoid corruption from other forces by meditation, which is a big part of their house culture. By attaining inner harmony one can stave off the taint of chaos and remain pure.

House Thalamos takes the "Don't Get Mad, Get Glad" approach to Chaos, as demonstrated by the Laughing God of the Eldar, meeting the seething rage of Khorne with a shit eating grin, a puntastic catchphrase, and vast amounts of precision fire power.

House Pendrakon are scrupulous prudes, caring more about heraldry and fancy hats than falling to chaos. Their traditions make them seem older than they are, and they appear to be medieval grandpas who have no time for this "Rock and Roll" nonsense. They are professional and chivalrous and are an affront to th excesses of Slannesh. They deal with Daemonettes and cults with good ole purging and a talk about good ole Imperial Values.


House Dominicus is going to be harder to explain, and I don't have time so I'll get to them later

>>50082091
>caring more about heraldry and fancy hats than falling to chaos
>What are the Emperor's Children

In any case, at least there is a more solid foundation now. I would still like to see something more complete before passing judgement though, single paragraph descriptions don't really say much. Still not a fan of a Japanese legion, but if you think you can pull it off, I have no power to stop you.

>>50082243
If you really need to know who's telling you this rather than some anon.

>>50082091
Tzeentch is more than randomness. He's change. Change from chaos to order is still change. It's eye-rolling ambiguity aside, it doesn't really counter Tzeentch. It just deflects him at best, assuming it wasn't all part of his plan anyway.
That said, deflecting Tzeentches plans away from harming the Imperium is about as good as one could hope for realistically, and seems like it could work well with the projects Tzeentch legion.

>>50082091
>Right, so House Kensei, being strict adherents to law, tradition, and order are natural enemies of Tzeentch, and excel n tackling his forces. Were Tzeentch is a random, roiling flame the Adepts of House Kensei are a surging tide to put out the flames. They avoid corruption from other forces by meditation, which is a big part of their house culture. By attaining inner harmony one can stave off the taint of chaos and remain pure.
Order and stagnation play right into Nurgle's hands.

>House Thalamos takes the "Don't Get Mad, Get Glad" approach to Chaos, as demonstrated by the Laughing God of the Eldar, meeting the seething rage of Khorne with a shit eating grin, a puntastic catchphrase, and vast amounts of precision fire power.
Their mocking ways feed Slaanesh, who revels in their arrogance.

>House Pendrakon are scrupulous prudes, caring more about heraldry and fancy hats than falling to chaos. Their traditions make them seem older than they are, and they appear to be medieval grandpas who have no time for this "Rock and Roll" nonsense. They are professional and chivalrous and are an affront to th excesses of Slannesh. They deal with Daemonettes and cults with good ole purging and a talk about good ole Imperial Values.
Chivalry and prudishness are the realms of Khorne, god of honor.

>>50081013
>So all Houses Exemplar work to drive out emotion, it's how they go about it that distinguishes them.
By taking the opposite stance of their opposite number they are inviting emotion.

>>50082366
Well yeah, and the canon Grey Knights know any killing feeds Khorne. They still do it though, because they hurt him back far more than he gets.

>>50082380
It's pretty self-defeating if the other house is undoing your hard work.

>>50082396
A simple solution would be:

Tzeentech House - Good at seeing through his schemes and don't fall for the bait. Still adapt and use tactics, just not for schemy-schemy purposes.

Khorne House - Snipes everything, no glorious blood. Perhaps have a weapon that causes bloodless death for more lols.

Slaneesh House - No joy in purging daemons, just righteous faith.

Nurgle House - ??? I'm stumped here, how do you overcome death and stagnation without feeding Tzeentech?

>>50082531
>Tzeentech House - Good at seeing through his schemes and don't fall for the bait. Still adapt and use tactics, just not for schemy-schemy purposes.
Just as Tzeentch planned/

>Khorne House - Snipes everything, no glorious blood. Perhaps have a weapon that causes bloodless death for more lols.
kek good luck with finding such a weapon. And the very act of warfare feeds Khorne.

>Slaneesh House - No joy in purging daemons, just righteous faith.
So Grey Knights.

And what, other houses can feel joy in purging daemons? Doesn't the joy of three houses override the cold emotionless of one?
>Nurgle House - ??? I'm stumped here, how do you overcome death and stagnation without feeding Tzeentech?
FIRE
I
R
E

>>50082531
The problem inherent with making Grey Knight houses that counter the gods is, the gods already counter eachother.
By countering one, you are aiding another.
The only real way to play the game and win, is to not play it at all, as it is rigged in their favour.

The Grey Knights don't defeat or counter chaos, they're more like exterminators; they aren't preventing or ending the problem permanently as thats impossible. They are just getting rid of a local concentration.

You want a real counter to the chaos gods? You need anti-Immaterium and anti-psyker weapons. Like Psycannons or nulls I guess.

>>50082557
Well the original draft called for the Slaneesh House to be vanilla GK so yeah?

The Khorne House could be psyker-based but that probably gives Tzeentech a massive hard-on.

Actually, wasn't there a reasonable consensus that the bulk of the dark white knights would be generalists, with the guys from the houses only getting called in when shit really hits the fan? That would solve the problem kinda (So what if you feed Khorne a bit by stopping a 100 year plan to destroy x system through JUST-AS-PLANNED)

>>50082611
>Well the original draft called for the Slaneesh House to be vanilla GK so yeah?
Can we just have Grey Knights please?
>The Khorne House could be psyker-based but that probably gives Tzeentch a massive hard-on.
So Grey Knights.

Also, if magic gives Tzeentch a hard-on, does that mean Eldar are his switch?
>Actually, wasn't there a reasonable consensus that the bulk of the dark white knights would be generalists, with the guys from the houses only getting called in when shit really hits the fan? That would solve the problem kinda
So Grey Knights.

>>50082678
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>50082610 makes a good point about the GK being exterminators, not a full solution

Still, let the guys who are excited over Houses do their thing and we'll see if they can build up the fluff to justify it.

>>50082610
>You need anti-Immaterium and anti-psyker weapons. Like Psycannons or nulls I guess.
Or giant fucking robots.

>>50082751
would they not be nulls by technicality?

unless you're talking of robotic psy-titans...

>>50082763
Robotic psi-titans!

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500 words on Angor. Yay.

>>50083551
I have a great idea for tomorrow's chapter. RAF marines called the SUPERMARINES.

>>50082243
That was a little hyperbole, meant to illustrate their WHFB Empire aesthetic, but I want to stress that they are essentially just regular grey knights with a splash of color. They are particularly effective against Slaanesh simply through their chivalrous nature.

I know not a lot of people are too fond of a Japanese house, but the culture will simply be a stage for their training. If they were templars or celts or generic marines it would be more or less the same.

>>50082366
I'm not going to argue with you, because all that will satisfy you is my surrender and we go with vanilla grey knights.

>>50082531
That's what they are at their core. That the Kensei are adherents to bushido or that Thalamos brings the bantz on the down time is just window dressing

I was speaking in broad strokes and hyperbole earlier to get an image in your minds

But yeah Fire. And House Dominicus brings the heat.

>>50082610
And they have those. These are more or less Grey Knight Brotherhoods writ large.

>>50077509
Just realized there are no necrons on this schedule. I'll fix that.

>>50084020
Don't touch necrons.

We can't even agree if we want new or old

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>>50084056
Well, I hope you figure it out in the next twelve days.

>>50084056
but its okay to touch grey knights though thats also not agreed?

>>50084082
Yep. Still ass sore?

>>50084071
Zorg, people like you doing Guard and IA because that's low impact. Deciding for all of us that FagCrons are the best way to go is very much so high impact.

>>50084269
>Zorg, people like you doing Guard and IA because that's low impact. Deciding for all of us that FagCrons are the best way to go is very much so high impact.
I'm doing Guard and IA because whenever I got in this all the legion slots actually had legions.

And Fagcrons? Really? At this point you're just deriding newcrons because you don't like thing.

...You...

Who are you again?

>>50084269
who decided it was agreed on?

>>50084269
And apparently my taste for grey knights can be sated by having one of the houses being pretty much the same thing, but you don't want newcrons even though it would let you still have oldcrons if you want.

>>50084322
Several people, and a small vocal minority

>>50084321
That's how you sound when you go
>>Muh Grey Knights
You don't like new thing because you like old thing.

HOWEVER, Newcrons are worstcrons because of two words and a theme song:
>Poké-C'tan!
>Gottaaaa caaatch em aalll!

>>50084444
>Several people, and a small vocal minority
Do you have any names? Otherwise I claim the same in rebuttal.
And who are you?

>>50084348
This isn't a matter of WorstCrons and Necron. This is a matter of Pokéc'tan and C'tan.

As much as I hate Shitcrons (if you want an army with variety, go play a different army) I can understand how folks want to unbriddle their autism and create their own snowflake dynasty. HOWEVER C'Tan shards are stupid, and a horrible in universe fact to justify crunch.

>>50084471
Who are you?
>Riposte

Gather up a posse, if you're so against them, otherwise Josman and the others will continue on the work they're doing.

What if Malal was there?

>>50084517
I fully support any mention of Malal, but I don't really know of the OMCM would put too much effort into focusing on him.

>>50084502
Who are "the others"?

I think we should use something instead of our current chat room so we can backtrack our chat room conversations.

>>50084569
The Two major contributors to the OMCM are Josman and Ronin

Arbites is helping only marginally since the VII was always going to be involved.

So produce a list of those vehemently opposed and all production will cease, and Josman's OMCM Codex flies into the trash

>>50084633
And the necron debate which I was talking about?

>>50084502
>its a group project, but we're going to do what we want so fuck you and anyone who doesn't like it.
This seems like a sensible course of action that will not cause any further drama for the project or the people involved.

Not revealing your name is telling too Cap. But if that's authoritatively the way the project is now, then awesome. I'm sure a lot of us have crazy ideas we'd like to see realised!

I'm gonna say I like New-crons. They are have your cake and eat it too. Anyone that thinks otherwise haven't been actually reading them or have been listening to memes too much.

>>50084591
discord would be a good idea.

>>50084667
Oh, yeah I don't have too strong a gauge on how folks feel about them.

I know I'm going to lose the FagCron argument, but I think I may make some ground with dividing them between liberated Necron who don't have C'Tan and are essentially NewCrons and C'Tan ruled Necron that are essentially Oldcrons.

>>50084700
>Not revealing your name is telling too Cap
Says Anon.

I'm serious, produce a comprehensive petition and everything will cease, I'm sure. Because all I see is two or three people objecting and two or three people working on it and everyone else just kinda "Meh. As long as it doesn't suck."

>>50084911
>I know I'm going to lose the FagCron argument, but I think I may make some ground with dividing them between liberated Necron who don't have C'Tan and are essentially NewCrons and C'Tan ruled Necron that are essentially Oldcrons.
This is a compromise I'm willing to accept.

>>50081013
Pretty much this: >>50081144
I'll have the first draft of the codex hammered out today, with the lore framework built over it.

First off, sneekycheekies are mine. You want input, that's cool, but they're the brotherhood I'm guerenteed to take creative control over. They're going to have no chapter symbol or in-your-face-cultural references. They're loyal to the imperium, but they never really stopped being blackshields.

The puritans are going to have to be pretty close to vanilla Grey Knights for Zorg.

>House Pendrakon
I'm cool with this, but the name is a bit on the nose.

>House dominicus
Why are they so emo? What makes them guilty? Because if you say "they're reprentant ex-traitors" I'm going to slap you through the internet and tell you to go read the chaos warhammmerwiki page again.

>>50082366
Yeah I noticed their weakness to corruption, I'll work with him to tone it back.

>>50082531
>>50082557
Anti tzeench are pure and traditional, but their organizational and command structure is so rigid that you really can't do any politicking.

Anti-Nurgle are going to be very "light and hope," to burn away the corruption of nurgle, and their squad sergeants are going to be wardens (the mini-chaplains that the deathwatch use).

Anti-Khorne are going to be quiet, serious, humorless, and evasive. They don't enjoy what they do at all, but they take pride in being damn good at it.

Anti-Slaanesh are basically going to be the bastard child of 30k era imperial fists and the Grey Knights.

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>>50085775
>The puritans are going to have to be pretty close to vanilla Grey Knights for Zorg.
You are mistaken. The only way to please me is to only have Grey Knights.

>>50085919
What about Grey Knights but instead of psykers they're all nulls?

>>50085919
What about Grey Knights but instead of Psykers they're all lolis?

>>50085919
What about Grey Knights but instead of Psykers they're all overpowered anime protags with harams?

>>50085919
What about Grey knights but instead of Psykers they're all Techpriests of the Cult Mechanicus that travel the galaxy recording and protecting all the remaining anime girls in the galaxy?

>>50085919
What about Grey Knights but instead of Psykers they're all anonymous shitposters who constantly go on about lolis?

>>50085775
It just occurred to me that this is making the GK a much bigger thing in the AU.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the GK normally arrive late, saving the day just as it looks lost?
They are primarily there to deploy with the most speed they can, and eliminate the daemons present before moving off to the next mission, as far as I am aware.
But these proposals seem to require a much more involved and larger scale battlefield, for instance using elastic defense strategies to combat Khorne.presumably while other forces are toe to toe with his bloodletters
If all it takes to combat Khornate daemons is to hit and run tactics and sniping from afar, why are GK's needed? Regular marines or guardsmen could do that...

Also, having a special group that is so rigid politicking can't occur would still leave the main force and the other 3 specialists open to Tzeentchian scheming, assuming he isn't using the counter-Tzeentchians as yet another tool for change.

It already takes the willpower to withstand Great Daemon possession to get into the GK; if Tzeentch can get his influence past that then rigid command structures aren't going to help I wouldn't have thought..

Tbh these factions would work better as part of the Inquisition, rather than the chamber militant.
Make them specialist guardsmen regiments!

>>50086102
Maybe.
>>50086163
Thicc lolis.
>>50086185
I don't like Shounenshit.
>>50086206
There are no anime girls in 40k.
>>50086224
Then they would be Exorcists, not Grey Knights.

>>50086317
>There are no anime girls in 40k.
well that's clearly a fucking lie

>>50086279
>If all it takes to combat Khornate daemons is to hit and run tactics and sniping from afar, why are GK's needed? Regular marines or guardsmen could do that...
Because other forces crumble when fighting demons. Because they just step out of the warp, there's no such thing as a battle line when fighting demons. So not only do you need superhumanly good marksmen, they have to be fast enough to peace out instantly if a demon appears nearby, and they have to use wards to keep demons from appearing ''right'' on top of them.
>Having the rigid politics group to anti-tzeench...
Yeah, this issue has been becoming more and more apparent to me as time goes on, and my solution is thus: The Adepts use wardens in place of squad sergeants (wardens are the mini-chaplains the deathwatch use).
>Tbh these factions would work better as part of the Inquisition, rather than the chamber militant.
Ah, I see, your idea is to have them be a combative house of the inquisition. Some kind of special militant force. A chambre militant, one might say. Derp.

Look, I see two big issues with the canon Grey Knights. First, they never actually help the imperium, they just hurt chaos. Grey Knights never really save a world's population or infrastructure from demons, they just show up at the last minute after most of the humans are dead and the infrastructure is fucked, and millions of souls have been sacrificed to the chaos gods, and then they drive off the demons, denying them a world. You know, AFTER they've sacrificed most of the population to the chaos gods.

The idea with the Adepts is to have them be more like the Deathwatch: there are a lot more of them, they're more spread out, and they're more proactive. They are NOT super secret execute on sight warriors. Sure, they don't exactly broadcast their existence, but they aren't going to have a planet's population wiped because ONE PERSON saw them, and they aren't afraid to get in on the ground floor BEFORE a greatr demon has showed up

>>50086279
And second, because I ran out of space here >>50086442 , there aren't enough Grey Knights. One thousand warriors across the literally millions of imperial worlds? No.

Our Adepts will have somewhere between 4-6 thousand warriors. Originally the idea was for there to be 5 thousand marines, about the size of four chapters, but as I move forward I see more and more that we're going to need some generalists in that mix. I'm thinking that elements of their command and "scout" (trainee) companies will be neutral, not really assigned to any one faction.

They're also going to be more spread out. Yes, they'll have the citidel on titan, but they're also going to have watchstations all over the galaxy, each garrisoned by a hundred warriors or so.

>>50085665
Fantastic. The No-C'tan Dynasties can be the counter balance to the Enslaved Necrons and their C'tan. Shoot, the Dynasties are more or less cobelligerents but the C'tan are moving against eachother vying for power, so the Necron are one of the biggest reasons that the Necron aren't steamrolling the Universe.

And you're bringing them up later in the timeline, correct? Not 30k?

>>50085775
Ah well I was hopping that the Shooty house would be glib marksmen and expert bantzmasters, but If you're passionate about them then you're definitely the best person to work on them, and the more creative control you have, I'd say the better, as lomg as we can fit them into the same organization.

I'm not too attached to House Pendrakon's name, as long is it evokes that same feeling of WHFB Old Empire.

House Dominicus is loyal to the core, no Ex-Traitor nonsense. No one is going to play any Unforgiven shenanigans in the OMCM (I've learned my lesson), not when so much is at stake. House Dominicus repents for not being able to save their brothers from damnation. Imagine Jesus. Now make him metal. No not that kind of metal, the hopeful kind. Okay now ditch the cross and have him suffer for your sins all the time instead. But the only way he can save you is by cleansing you in holy flame you poor, poor, heretic piece of shit. They don't take joy in this, and while they are filled with Zeal for the Emperor they don't let their rage blind them from their holy duties.

It's really the aesthetic I'm attatched to, it's like the Blood Angels but it encompasses more of the Catholic Canon.

Also this >>50085919 Zorg won't be sated unless all of this burns down to the ground.

>>50086279
>Also, having a special group that is so rigid politicking
Who said rigidly politicking?

Oh that's right, you just did. Good job making shit up pham.

>>50084911
>I know I'm going to lose the FagCron argument, but I think I may make some ground with dividing them between liberated Necron who don't have C'Tan and are essentially NewCrons and C'Tan ruled Necron that are essentially Oldcrons.

Is this not literally how it plays out in the current Necron fluff? Just with the C'tan slightly broken up?

>>50086442
>Yeah, this issue has been becoming more and more apparent to me as time goes on, and my solution is thus: The Adepts use wardens in place of squad sergeants (wardens are the mini-chaplains the deathwatch use).
I wanted to have a House that basically answers the question "Who watches the watchmen?" And act as Military Secret Police. They also watch eachother, but it's really more like how Judges in Judge Dread work. But that will work I guess.

>>50086442
>Anon: Saying things people want to say before they do and saying them better.

>>50086517
>Old Empire
It should be something German sounding then The Empire from WHFB was based on the Holy Roman Empire in Germany.

>Imagine Jesus. Now make him metal.
Heh.

>Okay now ditch the cross and have him suffer for your sins all the time instead. But the only way he can save you is by cleansing you in holy flame you poor, poor, heretic piece of shit. They don't take joy in this, and while they are filled with Zeal for the Emperor they don't let their rage blind them from their holy duties.
Like if you took the Adeptus Sororitas and replaced their hate with sorrow. I like it. One question though, who are these guys supposed to fight?

>Zorg won't be sated unless all of this burns down to the ground.
Dude, don't take him too seriously, I strongly doubt he actually cares that much. Zorg often shitposts like this. The Puritans being pretty close to Grey Knights makes a great deal of sense as an anti-slaanesh house, because the canon grey knights have almost no sense of personality or pride, which fits.

>>50086490
I wanted to have a "bog standard Infantry house" that dishes out marines to Adepts that need them, like Medieval merc armies, but for free

>>50086551
Not necessarily. Here in AU there is a clear line between Necron who don't really appreciate that they got played by the C'tan and Necron who are the souless, deathless automata controlled by C'tan.

>>50086571
>I wanted to have a House that basically answers the question "Who watches the watchmen?" And act as Military Secret Police.
As I work through this, I think more and more that we're going to need a "neutral" fifth house. Both as a foil to chaos undivided, and to form command and scout elements for the other houses. I think that each of the four houses will have their own command structures, but the chaplaincy will command the fifth house and have full veto and impeachment power over the other houses to keep them in line and remind them whom they all serve.

>>50086592
I didn't actually mean to post any of that as an anon, I just forgot to put my nametag up.
this >>50086606 is also me.

>>50086442
>Ah, I see, your idea is to have them be a combative house of the inquisition. Some kind of special militant force. A chambre militant, one might say. Derp.
No my idea is to use this enthusiasm to explore the Inquisitions beyond no witches, no aliens, and no daemons.
There is already radicals and puritan ideologies. Those ideologies dictate policy. It's like with a police force, they always do the same job, but their focus and methods change depending on the ideology of their policy makers.
So my suggestion was to move the houses up a step to the Inquisition itself, representing schools of thought on the Daemon issue.

This way, Zorg and co gets the normal GK technically, you get your special houses doing special stuff though by another name, and we get a more interesting inquisition.

>First, they never actually help the imperium, they just hurt chaos.
That is literally their entire mission. Like how Deathwatch are for combatting xenos. They are outnumbered by their foe, and literally trying to counter the machinations of gods. Their mandate is a much bigger picture than regular forces. Regular forces are for saving locals, the GK are there to smite daemons and stop them spreading to other worlds, or having a colonisable world lost for good. And chaos keeps them very busy.

Secondly, the setting is grimdark. Derp.
Having them save the day and everything go great for the good guys isn't a fit for 40k.

>They are NOT super secret execute on sight warriors.
So its okay for normal people to be exposed to daemons and the raw forces of chaos.
Given that the slightest taint of chaos can make people fall with potentially very serious consequences like daemon possession, being ruthlessly utilitarian makes sense. Especially as they are usually rushing around the entire galaxy trying to stop the endless hordes of daemons. Also grimdark again.

>>50086517
>And you're bringing them up later in the timeline, correct? Not 30k?
Correct. I'm sick of M31.

>>50086644
I just understand why this kind of distinction needs to be drawn. I feel like a couple anons just hate the idea of the broken up C'tan, even though it ultimately isn't really of consequence.

If you want soulless murder machine Necrons, you're free to write them even if we keep the canon fluff. Hell, they can still worship the C'tan even.

>>50086606
Thought was Nurgle, but I want to make it clear that they aren't sorrowful, just zealous. I want to make them like SoB, because SoB would be great at cleansing nurglite filth. I know where you were going with thay question.

How is House Raupert?
And how's about we move House WHFB to the fith house since their the traditions of the host of the Knights Errant, then move a more austere house to the fourth slot.

Now this is a dumb thing, but you never know: What about a secret sixth house? Like the Dimir Guild? That fights Malal. Dumb, but it might inspire something better.

>>50086609
Just so you know, my work in the codex thus far has been based around these ideas:

>House: The Grey Knights (working title, I JUST started integrating these guys)
>Opponent: Chaos Undivided
>Specialty: Force Weapons, Chaplains, Deep Striking (basically vanilla GK)
>Symbols: The Sword, The Book, The Holy Flame.

>House: The Blackguard.
>Opponent: Khorne
>Specialty: Jump Operations, Stealth, Speed, Shooting.
>Symbols: The Black Shield, and ONLY the Black Shield. These guys don't do glory and heraldry.

>House: The Ronin
>Opponent: Tzeench
>Specialty: Anti-sorcery, passive psychic abilities, very close or very long range combat
>Symbols: Water, assorted Kanji, (insert ronin's choices here)

>House: The Illuminators
>Opponent: Nurgle
>Specialty: Flame weaponry, tenacity, furious melee
>Symbols: The Flame, Light, The Lantern, The Torch.
(these guys might be the best fit for the catholic reprentantmarines

>House: The Puritans
>Opponent: Slaanesh
>Specialty: Boots and Bolters, Shields, Midrange Firepower, being hard to charge
>Symbols: The Shield, the Bolter.

>>50086684
Or here's an idea: We have a clear distinction between new and old crons with no sharded C'tan, like Zorg agreed to since he is going to write about them the most.

>>50086490
>numbers
I agree on that front. But by making them super specialised you've neutered the whole forces effectiveness and negate the numbers increase.
Unless they all travel together at all times.
Because lets say the counter-Khorne guys go off to fight some incursion in Ultima, when another incursion happens elsewhere, who deals with it? The counter-Tzeentchians?

Having the GK be generalist makes sense because they are a small special forces group with a special mission to fill and a big area to operate in.
It means they can effectively divide their forces without losing effectiveness in their actual mission.

And again, that low numbers thing is because the setting is grimdark. Its meant to be an uphill struggle just to survive. Being a GK and fighting the most terrifying things in the universe is about as uphill as you can get.

The GK do need fixing, mainly because they come off as Mary Sue in the OU. Give them some character flaws and they'd be massively improved.


>>50086542
I said you have a special group that is so rigid politicking doesn't work.

I never said "rigidLY politicking". You just did. Good job making... etc
Chill out for fuck sake.

>>50086647
>>50086759

>>50086778
>>Specialty: Anti-sorcery, passive psychic abilities, very close or very long range combat
Wouldn't it be better to have them as nulls, like the Sisters of Silence?

>>50086778
These aren't set in stone, are they?

>>50086801
Right.

But who said that they are so rigid and they politic so?

Ronin? Josman?

Oh that's right.

>>50086653
>No my idea is to use this enthusiasm to explore the Inquisitions beyond no witches, no aliens, and no daemons.
Yes, but we aren't enthusiastic about that, we're enthusiastic about five badass grey knight houses. We're writing what we want to write. You want your complex inquisition? Put your pen where your mouth is.

>Having them save the day and everything go great for the good guys isn't a fit for 40k.
Really? Because marines and deathwatch do that all the time.

>Normal people get to see chaos
No, they just know that some obscure space marines showed up, executed some folk, and left.

Seeing DAEMONS is bad.

Seeing the Grey Knights themselves?.. Really, what's wrong with that? People will just think they're another space marine chapter.

>>50086821
Nigger go through the Archive and search for "Can a Marine be a Blank?"

You'll see how that's ridiculous.

>>50086845
oh I didn't realise they were all marines, my bad.

>>50086785
I guess, but what's the explanation for why the C'tan don't run roughshod over the galaxy like they were doing back in the day?

>>50086684
>>50086785
>I feel like a couple anons just hate the idea of the broken up C'tan, even though it ultimately isn't really of consequence.
I completely withdraw my previous complaints about the newcrons.

>I agree on that front. But by making them super specialised you've neutered the whole forces effectiveness and negate the numbers increase.
>Unless they all travel together at all times.
The current idea is to have the four (slightly smaller than a chapter) houses and the fifth (slightly larger than a chapter) generalists all cohabitating different watchfortresses throughout the galaxy.

Also, prognosticars are a thing.

>Give them some character flaws and they'd be massively improved.
Yeah, because I know if I'm Malcador, I'm thinking, "You know what my anti-daemon force needs? Some flawed and complex characters! I know we brainwash them to remove their flaws and complexities to make them better able to resist chaotic corruption, but we need to add some of that shit back in!"

>>50086821
Yes and no. It'd be good for anti-tzeench,but null marines got shut down so hard by the group...

>>50086822
Nope, it's just the premise I'm building the codex around. It can all be changed retroactively.

>>50086837
Did you see this?
>>50086759

The Knight Errants are the "Ruling" house

We can have passionless robotic Grey Knights be anti Slannesh

That will also explain their varried heraldry and chivalrous tradition

And are you sold and not giving the Shooty House a little grim mirth? We need to balance out the personalities of the Houses, so far we have

>Stuffy Knights
>Stern Samurai
>Passionless Grey Knights
>Zealous Flagellent Angels
>Stern Marksmen

I think somebody could do with a little light heartedness, and I think the guys watching a horde of daemons consistently run into their fields of fire can bear to laugh.

>>50086865
C'tan moving against C'tan, and Dynasties moving against C'tan and not really moving against eachother.

God damn it, this >>50086899 was supposed to be partially a reply to >>50086801 this

>>50086858
Well I think they could have a few Blank assests, but the =][= and the Assasinorum is going to snatch most of them

>>50086951
Why wouldn't they finish with the Cadian Pylons and wiping out Chaos first?

Also why do they go to sleep at all?

>>50086830
You might want to calm down anon.
You've managed to misread what I've written, and Josman said it here: >>50085775
>Anti tzeench are pure and traditional, but their organizational and command structure is so rigid that you really can't do any politicking.

My point being, the Counter Tzeentch group is protected from politicking and schemes, but the others groups aren't.

>>50086837
You aren't enthusiastic about writing that and that's fair. But neither are Zorg and others enthusiastic about what has been proposed.

I was suggesting a compromise where everybody might win.
Badass knight houses might not exist, but the stuff they do, and the special shit could do, fluffed as an Inquisitor in charge of them setting his policy or something.
When we get to the Inquisition, I may well just write shit for them

>Really? Because marines and deathwatch do that all the time.
They do, that is true. Its a grimdark setting, but not completely hopeless. My point though was that seems to make the GK more nobledark or such.
Good guys save the day in canon, but its often at a steep cost. The GK operate against the most dangerous threat in the galaxy beside maybe the Tyranids.


>Seeing the Grey Knights themselves?
I actually kind of agree with this. But I think its a case of purpose. They aren't normal marines, they're decked out differently. I guess they're being hidden from regular troops for that reason - knowing the Imperium has a special anti-daemon force implies daemons are real etc.
Again, I kind of agree with your point, but I think thats the OU's rationale.

>>50086899
Cool. It works so far!

>>50086985
Something something War in Heaven

>>50086931
>Malal
We don't use that word around here. (for some reason)
>Dakkaknights with humor
You're making the same mistake this guy >>50086801 did. Yeah, sure, complex warriors with interesting personalities might be more interesting, but the more interesting they get the worse they are at fighting chaos. The perfect anti-chaos warrior is a boring, quiet, zealous dude who gives zero fucks about what people think of him. He barley undestands the concepts of humor, pleasure, pride, and desire. He just does his job.

>>50087005
Christ that's painfully boring. Fuck GW for making this dumbass lore

>>50086899
>The current idea is to have the four (slightly smaller than a chapter) houses and the fifth (slightly larger than a chapter) generalists all cohabitating different watchfortresses throughout the galaxy.
Ok, well my point still stands on what to do when the Khorne guys are in Ultima while the Bloodletters are in Obscurus. But you can solve that by having the specialists present in each fortress I guess. They're still all GK so they can fill in as basic dudes when they're specialism isn't needed.
Might work better as companies within regular GK chapters at that rate maybe?

>Yeah, because I know if I'm Malcador, I'm thinking, "You know what my anti-daemon force needs? Some flawed and complex characters!
You're already rewriting the GK to be more interesting. Presumably because the originals are a little boring to you. I've not said make them broody emo faggots, just give them a personality from a mata perspective. I don't mean make them jokers or moody cunts.
I was suggesting doing the GK but with more or less what you are doing anyway, ie giving them some cultural philosophies and unique traditions/methods.

>The perfect anti-chaos warrior is a boring, quiet, zealous dude who gives zero fucks about what people think of him. He barley undestands the concepts of humor, pleasure, pride, and desire. He just does his job.
Then why change the GK at all?
They already are exactly that, adding the knight houses is more or less doing what you're counselling against.

>>50087002
>Zorg and others enthusiastic about what has been proposed
Okay, real talk here, how do you tell when Zorg is serious or not? Because I'm geuinely having a hard time telling when he's just fucking around or when he's serious, because half the time he's posting anime girls as response faces, which is pretty much the universal symbol for "don't take this post seriously".

>My point though was that seems to make the GK more nobledark or such.
Okay, you people are sending me some mixed messages, which is what made me fuck off the whole project last time. I've got some people telling me that the OU's material barely matters when writing new stuff, you can just do what's cool and what works. Yet here I've got people saying I need to fit the OU better. No, screw that noise. No one who was writing the space marine legions were like, "No, Lumey, your marines need to be more like the Ultramarines, give them some blue on their armor and a massive stellar empire!"

The OU does not decide how we proceed in the AU.

>>50087033
Yeah but it makes sense within the setting. There's a reason the canon grey knights have almost no individual personality.

>>50087102
>Yeah but it makes sense within the setting. There's a reason the canon grey knights have almost no individual personality
Yeah yeah yeah I know, that's why I came up with the house system to give them a shared personality, rather than none at all.


Also houses don't have to be homogeneous, individual marines can form a larger host, all from different houses.

>>50087096
>But you can solve that by having the specialists present in each fortress I guess.
That's what cohabitating means, yes.

>You're already rewriting the GK to be more interesting.
Structurally and operationally, yes, not personally. I'm an autistic cunt who looks at the Grey Knights and sees how the way they're structured and the way they work pretty much dooms them to be terrible at their job.

My changes are not designed to make them more interesting or more relocatable or make them better for writing stories, it's to make them better at their jobs as far as fluff and codices go. Y'all are thinking about this as writers. I'm thinking about this as a strategist and a numberfag.

>They already are exactly that, adding the knight houses is more or less doing what you're counselling against.
See above comment about personal v organizational changes.

>>50087181
The above also kind of applies to you.

>>50087102
>The OU does not decide how we proceed in the AU.

AND YET

>>50087192
>relocatable
*relatable
First time my own freaking fingers have ever autocorrected something.

>>50087192
I'm doing this to make them more interesting.

I'll meet you halfway.

>>50087201
Ronin, get in IRC so I can talk about the ronin's gameplay features with you.

>>50087233
And I want to talk about Lore, so this works.

>>50087102
>Zorg
I take everyone seriously. It's just easier that way.
And its standard 4chan to use anime characters.

>OU vs AU
Everything up to the birth of Slaanesh is unchanged as that's the spin off point. The rest is about fitting things in together.
Writing shit up, then reviewing it seems to be the way things are done. Reviewing it tends to entail whats happened in this thread, minus the drama or not desu. The AU needs to accomodate new ideas, but that can only ever go to a point or we're stuck in constant rewrite hell or refusing new writers. Its a balancing act.

This is changing the GK, a lot of people are ambivalent, but two extremes are present: one side for the changes the other against. Finding a compromise is the way forward. Its a group project on 4chan after all.

>>50087192
I'm thinking about this as a strategist too.
But also as a writer, seeing as we don't produce models, thus rules matter less. They're fun, and people like making them, but the project is predominantly a writing project. So yes the focus is on the writing side of things.

Discussing the strategy side of things is enjoyable though, but I am trying to bridge the gap between the two sides of the discussion so we avoid more arguments. Maybe thats foolish, I don't know any more.

>>50087317
>Finding a compromise is the way forward.
Yes but the one strong resistance voice openly admits to not wanting a compromise, he literally will only be satisfied if the Grey Knights are unchanged.

>So yes the focus is on the writing side of things
Honestly I think you're underestimating the potential here. People can still find ways to write about the canon Grey Knights, and what we're making is pretty much canon grey knights, but larger, with more organizational diversity.

>>50087102
>Okay, real talk here, how do you tell when Zorg is serious or not? Because I'm geuinely having a hard time telling when he's just fucking around or when he's serious, because half the time he's posting anime girls as response faces, which is pretty much the universal symbol for "don't take this post seriously".
I am usually serious when I'm talking about new ideas, even when I'm posting anime girls.

>>50087420
Oh, so you seriously won't be satisfied unless we just don't touch the Grey Knights?

>>50087602
That's one of the serious things, yeah.

I thought I made it pretty clear from the start.

bump i guess

>>50087682
Not everyone is a winner.

>>50077509
Daaaaaayum son, gonna be impressed if you can actually do this.

>>50087102
>No one who was writing the space marine legions were like, "No, Lumey, your marines need to be more like the Ultramarines, give them some blue on their armor and a massive stellar empire!"
Actually, people did tell me to make the Void Angels more like the Ultramarines. Earlier drafts had them being somewhere between the Night Lords and the Space Wolves in mentality. (I think they've ended up approximately Raven Guard without Luck as a Dump Stat.)

On this Grey Knight business, I can't say that the progress so far is very inspiring but I guess you guys have had trouble getting your heads together to nut things out. My advice is to spend a bit more time polishing the idea (paying attention to the complaints in this thread) before presenting it again. Otherwise the argument above is just going to be repeated with more vitriol.

>>50090461
Hop on IRC when you get the chance and we can talk this out.

>On this Grey Knight business, I can't say that the progress so far is very inspiring
Actually, first draft of their codex will be done tonight (or possibly late tomorrow morning, depending on how late I end up staying up).

I await the end of my work shift to continue work my Ork empire.

>>50084591
>>50084774
So discord channel. Yay or nay?

>>50092177
Or you can just get a client that keeps logs.

>>50092909
There's a way to do that?

>>50092909
And weren't you in Baghdad?

File: Weapon_Hard_Points.jpg (289KB, 918x882px) Image search: [Google]

289KB, 918x882px

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjcoExgIorf-tN9BQ_rqi2FeFdLBCDlRjg2s8IlxjZo/edit
1745 words. Damn I'm good! Now for the space marine chapter.

>>50093869
Is it wrong that I'm imagining an ork version of Mr Rogers when reading about the High Brute

>>50092177
>>50092909
>>50092948
If I'm in the room, then a log exists. I'm trying to be in the room all the time for exactly that reason.

>>50094121
Well, now that I look at it the name is a bit similar.

>>50094127
>If I'm in the room, then a log exists. I'm trying to be in the room all the time for exactly that reason.
How do we access the log? Do we need to go through you?

>>50094143
Yeah, unfortunately. At least going back. A lot of irc clients allow for logging though, so you can have your own going forward.

>>50094277
Okay, how do I start logging?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qhqoD3fBoDkOep3qbq22RMSsy4Vc1PIx6ndPzfJUfbw/edit
Began work on the Supermarines. Now for bed.

>>50078490
>which arm
All of them.

When exactly is anyone planning to update their wiki pages in any real way? It feels like a lot has been discussed, but nothing has been put on the wiki.

Is Brennus still here? Can anyone ask him if he'd mind me writing up a successor Chapter from the Thunder Kings?

>>50097570
My EZ stuff has been trickling in

>>50097596
I don't think anyone has anything against successor chapters, as long as you have a good concept.

Question about the eternal Zealots


Why the fuck would they be Chaos Generalists when E Money kept a tight lid on Chaos?

>>50097986
Old fluff, ignore that.They're technically swoopy-swoopy choppy-choppy

>>50098022
Well it's still on the Wiki. You might want to revise that.

Anyways I've found the perfect niche for the VII

>>50098222
Just did, though I'm undecided between Close Quarters Combat and Strategic Strikes. Technically they do both but Strategic Strikes sounds too generic so I went with CQC.

>>50098250
Well either way the VII Legion, who I'm tentatively calling the Tiger Phantoms, specialize in Psychological Warfare and Ranged Cavalry with a minor emphasis on CQC Assaults.

>>50098222
>>50098250
Honestly, I think we should just ditch that column in the table. It's never been that much help and isn't the sort of thing that gets applied to the OU.

>>50099114
Very well. What do you think of this tho >>50098402

>>50098402
The devil's in the details, but I would read over the Void Angels before getting underway.

>>50099325
They would operate by flooding the battle field with psychoactive smoke and glitterchaff and utilize holograms and decoy formations to confuse the shit out of the enemy, all the while pelting the enemy with indirect fire and cavalry elements.

>>50099597
Oh, that thing from IRC yesterday? Well, it's possible but it should link up with the Legion's culture and the Primarch's outlook. You haven't talked too much about those elements, so I'm not sure if it does or not. Just something to keep in mind.

>>50099741
Due to his mutation Zan was a bit of an outcast. He has a lot in common with Curze but instead of murdering everything he's really more of an agent of justice.

He lives by romanticized Samurai morals, but operates like a ninja.

File: The Supermarines.jpg (14KB, 236x236px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 236x236px

Almost halfway done with the Supermarines. I'll come back this evening and finish them off before beginning work on the Knight House. I was thinking siege specialists.

>>50099937
Das ist Zorg. Try to spot the references in that draft.

File: Axe Knight.jpg (80KB, 736x677px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 736x677px

>>50099937
>>50099962
On the subject, I have to reference Snoopy now. Great.

File: Space Marine Samurai.jpg (138KB, 645x423px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 645x423px

>>50099937
>>50099962
The draft I didn't post.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qhqoD3fBoDkOep3qbq22RMSsy4Vc1PIx6ndPzfJUfbw/edit

Pic relevant to VII legion.

>>50100229
I want my guys to be a lot flashier.

Like neon highlights and Tigers hides hanging of them flashy

>>50099597
>They would operate by flooding the battle field with psychoactive smoke
kek, you're literally doing opium nightmare tigers. I love it.

>>50077457
Eh, I just don't see the appeal of bothering to even contribute something Xenos-related, everything I've read about the Hektor Heresy on 1d4chan makes pretty clear its a 'Humans always win' kind of setting already. Boring.

>>50102020
Then write some Xenos that win shit. As I recently found out, it doesn't matter how badass a foe for the imperium you write, as long as you don't directly step on anyone else's toes, people are usually fine with it.

>>50101834
I dont give a single fuck about subtlety with these guys. I'm going to have a lot of fun with them

I just need a better name

>>50102020
My plan is to have the Tiger Phantoms (WIP Name) break apart and a large number of them form a minor empire with xenos allies.

I'm basically co opting the Outer Heaven stuff that I was forced to go with the Crimsin Eagles

>>50102034
Yeah, I doubt that, otherwise there'd be an unambiguous straight up War won by a non-human faction by now.

>>50102072
>Need a new name

Step one: pic one or two of the following words.

Yàowù hǔ

Dava Baagh

Harimau Obat

Yakubutsu Tora

Step two: season to taste with the following words:

Sons

Warriors

Prophets

Braves

Maids

Ronin

>>50102168
Well we don't have that many people who actually write xenos. Most people go for imperial factions.

>>50102168
I just think you're kind of looking at the wrong thread if want you want is something nonhuman mostly Space Marine. This isn't really about Xenos, they're mostly here to give people something to punch.

Maybe start your own thing if you're that interested.

>>50102173
All of that shit translates to "drug tiger".


Subtle.

>>50102383
Well...I have been thinking about this one thing...but I don't know how people would react...

>>50102449
Does it? Fukken rad.

>>50102173
I really want to go with something that doesn't go "LOOK HOW ASIAN WE ARE HOMMIE" like reading the legion names would you know that the White Scars are mongol? Or that the Emperors Shadows are Japanese? Or the Iron Snakes are greek? Or the Storm Wardens are Celts?

Tiger Phantoms kinda rides the line, but it has that Rad quality that earlier Warhammer had. I want these guys too look like Noise Marines/Ork Blood Axes in case that helps

>>50102579
Could go with Star Phantoms or something.

>>50102579
Star Phantoms
Astral Phantoms
SPESS Phantoms
Steel/Iron Phantoms
*insert color here* phantoms
Sons of the Phantom

>>50102020
Part of my current schedule is expansion of my own race, creation of factions for canon races, and the creation of a new race.

>>50102020
>>50102168
Actually didn't we have someone writing this big horrifying xenos SOMETHING out at the edge of the galaxy that utterly fucking curbstomps the second largest imperial fleet in history?

>>50103171
I think that was supposed to just be a one off story thing, not a whole xenos race.

>>50103171
I wanna see this shit, sounds rad.

>>50102020
It looks that way because most of the material covers the Great Crusade, which the humans win. The Imperium loses its first war against an alien (if human-derived) power after the Heresy.

>>50102731
>>50102678
Some names I thought up

Storm Wraiths
Tiger Warriors
Sons of Shadow
Havoc Lords
Banshees
Doom Riders
Wailing Tigers
Black Cats
Heralds of Ruin
Dreameaters

>>50103171
So I had this idea, it sprung up from a roll to create thread, basically it was a bout a world that was like WHFB world, but all the wierd shit was caused by an ancient nuclear war to stave of xenos. Lizardmen? Evolved Kroot cut off from the Tau. The Maw? A Tyranid. Orges, Skaven, Beastmen, Vampires? Mutants. Tomb Kings? Humans with ancient Necron "magic".

Now that's all very interesting, but the important thing was the Archon. Basically we substituted he fucked up warpstone moon with a giant ball of glass that was actually an ancient starbase.

Now the thing that inhabited it was called the Archon, a being seemingly made of lightning living within the glass, that would snatch up people from the planet by teleporting them into the moon and would basically "uplift" them and stick them into its cult.

Now what this thing was actually was undecided. A daemon of tzeentch? A minor warp entity? A C'tan sealed away by the Old Ones? An ancient DAoT rouge AI? Some exotic Xeno with horrifying psychic aptitude? A trapped soul of a powerful wizard? An extradimensional entity? We don't know, and I like that it could be any of them.

But my thought was, what if it got hold of the Rak'gol, and made an actual faction out of them?

>>50103200
I might have it saved somewhere, I'll see if I can find it.

It was presented in two short, kinda vague stories.

The first was an investigator's report telling about a derelict colony ship that had drifted into imperial space from somewhere outside the galatic rim, but it had been stripped of all organic material and higher energy.

The second was a highly official looking logistics formatted troop list of a metric fuckton of imperial troops (a couple marine chapters, a dozen guard regiments, a couple million conscripts, a fuckton of skitarii and the freaking fabricator general of mars) trekking out to the edge of the galaxy to fight whatever the investigator happened to find out there, and every single on of them got killed, or at the very least disappeared.

>>50103733
Dream Eaters and Sons of Shadows sounds cool.

You could always call them the Rakshassa or something, like those indian tiger warrior dudes from D&D.

>>50104097
Sounds pretty dope.

>the Archon
If you're basing this off warhammer fantasy, change the name there. The BBG of that setting is named Archaon.

>>50094320
discord's easier desu. allows for voice chat as well if needed and you don't have to log in/log out.

>>50103254
Yeah but 'human-derived' kinda ruins it again cause it just returns to the same old 'humans are super special snowflakes' vibe at the end. What about the Imperium, or whatever its called in this one, actually just losing a war to some Xenos species? Not going to happen.

>Dream Eaters and Sons of Shadows sounds cool.
Dreameaters is growing on me as well.

>You could always call them the Rakshassa or something, like those indian tiger warrior dudes from D&D
I'm aware, they're also Hindu demons, but I'm trying to steer away from any names that betray their Asiatic themes. I'm actually quite thrilled to make these guys. Did you read their tactics?

>Sounds pretty dope.
>>the Archon
>If you're basing this off warhammer fantasy, change the name there. The BBG of that setting is named Archaon.
I'm also very aware. I am deeply in love with WHFB, especially Pre-AoS (Age of Shitmar) Archaon.
>Hey bro, you're destined to bring about the end times.
>FUCK you.
>Destroys the world anyway because he knows he's the best man to do it
Based

But yeah, having a little tongue and cheek WHFB planet would be great, but I'm just trying to see the reactions to making the Rak'Gol a proper faction led by a zappy spooky thang.

>>50104711
>What about the Imperium, or whatever its called in this one, actually just losing a war to some Xenos species?
If I have my way, they'll lose a war with the Harakien Eldar. Although the Harakiens are a regional power and are only going to gobble up a couple of Sectors, I'd like them to kill the leader of the High Lords of Terra to underscore their victory.

>>50105080
Didn't the entire faction leader of the Harakien lose or almost lose to a Space Marine Captain already? I think I read that somewhere, pretty unimpressive.

>>50105250
KEK

Will Eldar ever not be BTFO?

>>50105250
Ku'Motsk (who isn't the greatest fighter among his people, but rather their commander) is narrowly defeated in single combat by Augustin Carron. But Carron is a Legion Ancient, ranking above Chapter Master, not just a random Space Marine.

But I think we're getting off track. If you look at this thing and see that nobody has written the kind of things you want to write, isn't that an opportunity? I mean, if there already were plenty of stories about Xenos triumphing over the Imperium, you'd just be adding one more and it wouldn't really matter.

>>50105359
Wait...so the faction leader of one of the main Xenos factions can't even beat a captain from the Marine factions?

>>50105359
>Greatest Commander
Doesn't he lose the war as well? Seems to me like he's just a loser in general.

>>50105394
No, that's not what I wrote.

>>50105408
The Imperials have Ku'Motsk outnumbered by orders of magnitude and have surprises to pull.

But again, if you think that Ku'Motsk isn't the great alien hero that the setting deserves, why not write the character you want?

>>50105440
Probably cause they knows no-one in this thread is going to want major Marine characters to lose to Xenos or humans to in anyway be implied to possibly not be the most awesome thing ever? Random guess.

>>50105440
So, for the record, have any Space Marine Captains lost to Xenos yet? Cause if one Xenos Faction's leader can't, um, who can other than other Marines?

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>>50105628
I may do this next time I do a xenos faction, just for you.

>>50105552
Well, I think that's false. But supposing that it was true and anon sincerely wanted to write a substantial setting with xenos being on a more equal footing to humans, maybe anon should try floating it in a new thread and finding like-minded people to collaborate with? Nobody is saying that Hektor Heresy is the only 40k AU.

>>50105628
Firstly, Ku'Motsk didn't lose to a Space Marine Captain.

Secondly, the reason that what you're proposing hasn't been written is because you haven't written it. Why do you hate Xenos so much, anon?

>>50105680
I don't get it?

>>50105724
Well that's a good point, maybe the anon does that, just thought I'd take a crack at guessing the 'why' you asked for.

Also I think it's pretty clear Hektor Heresy is about humans and is going to stay that way, nothing wrong with that either, but I think its disingenious to act as if there isn't a clear tone of human supremacy here.

Why else is there almost nothing Xenos-related? Cause no-one involved really cares about Xenos. Nothing wrong with that, just think its better to be upfront about it is all.

>>50105724
I don't hate Xenos I just don't know if its worth the effort if its already been established that even the Eldar, who I consider pretty major, can't handle a non-Primarch level Space Marine. Makes the whole story just look like a sideshow to whatever the Primarchs are doing. But I'll stop bothering, don't worry.

>>50105904
The thing is, anon is going from "none of you really wanted to write about Xenos" to "none of you will accept me writing about Xenos". That's unfair to everyone involved.

>>50105995
If you're talking about the Harakien Eldar Empire as a whole, they get the full attention of a Primarch. In addition, the Harakiens are only one fragment of the Eldar - there are also Craftworlds, Exodites, and Webway Eldar - and a fragment so minor that it got brushed aside by the OU Great Crusade without any detail.

>>50105904
>Hektor Heresy is about humans and is going to stay that way

That is also true of the canon, yes.

>>50105995
>Make the whole story just look like a sideshow to whatever the Primarchs are doing
That right there is basically the writing ethos of the Horus Heresy writers, with one or two exceptions.

Where are our threads archived?

>>50108895
You can find them on Warosu.

>>50108895
http://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/subject/hektor%20heresy/

>>50103200
Quoted from a previous thread:

>//closed archive
>//classified: level Primus =][=
>//access: limited
>//original log date: 451M34
>//last access: 863M37
>//disc: mission report, Steel Marshals special task force, auxiliary investigation officer
>//sub.disc: investigation of "Future's Promise" derelict colony ship
>//loc: Athropos system, Quietus Cluster, Segmentum Obscuras, galactic rim.
>//contents:
>Mission report, Future's Promise investigation, Athropos IV PDF special investigator Reman Laram, temporarily seconded to the Steel Marshals fifth company.

>My findings confirm what Inquisitor Mahlem suspected, with one exception. As she'd thought, the halls of the ship were completely deserted, free of heat or energy signatures. The ship seems completely free of any organic material at all. Not only is the crew absent, but all organic cogitator parts are gone as well, and even the food in the messhall is gone, missing from unopened packages. There seem to be no signs of struggle, and the ship seemed almost uncanny in its empty, perfect order.

>Perhaps most disturbing is that the vessel was totally free of higher energy of any kind. Adept ΩI.II.I.III attempted to restore power to the ship's secondary reactors to restore light and atmosphere, but found it impossible. Furthermore he reported that the ship's reactors, main and secondary, were totally absent of any energy, going on to clarify that even after millenia adrift, there should have been trace radiation in many of the ship's systems; radiation conspicuously absent here. Furthermore the ship's computers were completely free of power, though the quantum superpositioning in the subcogitator banks was still present.

>>50109659
>Conclusions? I have never seen something so thoroughly, horrifyingly empty as that ship. Even the bloody astartes seemed to notice, that damn ship felt like a void pulling at your mind. I don't know if the crew survived whatever deprived them of power, but I'd bet a week's caf ration that the airlocks would be looking real inviting after a few days aboard that damn ship. Every trace of organic material and higher energy is just gone. How does that happen? Warp if I know.
>Honestly, I almost have to wonder if what we found was even the "Future's Promise". If it didnt sound so absurd saying it, I'd almost say someone had built a full size statue of the vessel, perfect down to the subatomic scale, if the quantum computing banks are any indicator.

>Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, as I sure as I don't want to find out what could do that to a ship. Still, it may not be as ridiculous as it sounds. Adept ΩI.II.I.III insists that even if some arcane technology had ripped the ship's energy away, it would either be so strong as to take free electrons with it and destabilize the ship's matter, which it clearly didn't, or it would have been weak enough to leave trace radiation, which it also didn't. So either something beyond the galactic rim built a 1 to 1 replica of a 10 kilometer long vessel, or there's something out there that's so far beyond the Red Boys that they can't even begin to explain it.

>Here's hoping we just have some extragalactic sculptors out there.

>//log ended

>>50109672
>//Addendum
>The Cog Boys finished their material samples of the vessel. Comparitive analysis confirms, the metal in this ship came from Atlantos shipyards.It actually is the "Future's Promise". Furthermore, they were able to extract some data from the ship's cogitator banks. Most of it is purely operational data leading up to the ship's disappearance, but one line of code was added after the ship's disappearance. It quite simply said "
>//Redacted, inquisitorial primus-alpha level order
>". I don't understand why, but when Inquisitor Mahlem heard it, she summoned her retinue and immediately departed for Terra. Throne, Maeve can face an ork warlord without flinching, but this cryptic astropath poetry shit scares her? Suppose it's not my place to judge.

>//log end

>>50109687
And then a while later came this
>//closed archive
>//classified: level Alpha-Primus =][=
>//access: limited
>//original log date: 457M34
>//last access: 863M37
>//disc: Special Response Force composition record
>//sub.disc: record of Council of Terra's response fleet to the Future's promise incident.
>//loc: Quietus Cluster, Segmentum Obscuras, at galactic rim.
>//contents:
>Force composition manifest

>Forces dispatched:

>//dem.record.list
>Response Fleet
>//dem.record.sublist
>flagship: Glorianna Class capital ship Will of Iron, seconded from Steel Marshals fleet.
>34 Battleships, seconded from Imperial Navy, Adeptus Mechanicus, Mars defense fleet.
>105 Frigate/Support class ships, seconded from Imperial Navy, Adeptus Mechanicus, Mars defense fleet.
>340 Escort Squadrons, seconded from Imperial Navy, Adeptus Mechanicus, Mars defense fleet.

>//dem.record.list
>Astartes fleet elements
>//dem.record.sublist
>11 Strike Cruisers, seconded from Steel Marshals, Void Angels, Iron Sons, Knights Triumphant, Ravagers.
>4 Battle Barges, seconded from Steel Marshals, Void Angels, Iron Sons.
>25 frigate/support class vessels, seconded from Steel Marshals, Void Angels, Iron Sons, Knights Triumphant, Ravagers, Rangers of Akrash, Angels of Redemption.
>101 escort squadrons, seconded from Steel Marshals, Void Angels, Iron Sons, Knights Triumphant, Ravagers, Rangers of Akrash, Angels of Redemption.

>//dem.record.list
>Legio Regal
>//dem.record.sublist

>//dem.record.list
>Legio Regal
>//dem.record.sublist
>full legion
>command elements
>3 battle maniples (2 imperator class, 14 warlord class, 11 reaver class, 4 reaver mars class, 13 warhound class)
>12 skitarii tech guard maniples

>//dem.record.list
>Legio Anahlatus
>//dem.record.sublist
>1 battle maniple (4 warlord class, 4 reaver class, 6 warhound class)
>4 skitarii tech guard maniples

>>50109700
>//dem.record.list
>Adeptus Mechanicus Mars Tech Guard
>//dem.record.sublist
>Adeptis Mechanicus Fabricator General and command elements
>10 Cult Mechanicus battle cohorts
>33 Skitarii Tech Guard maniples
>5 regiments Mars PDF auxilia

>//dem.record.list
>Astartes forces
>//dem.record.sublist
>Steel Marshals command elements, 5th company, 2nd company, 3rd company, elements of 1st, 4th, 6th, and 9th companies.
>Iron Sons chapter master, command elements, 1st company, elements of 4th and 6th companies.
>Knights Triumphant command elements, 1st company, 3rd company, auxiliary forces.
>Ravagers chapter master, command elements, 1st company, 2nd company, elements of 10th company.
>Void Angels command elements, 2nd company.
>Angels of Redemption elements of 5th and 8th company.
>Rangers of Akrash 1st company, 10th scout company.

>//dem.record.list
>Imperial Guard
>//dem.record.sublist
>Terran Praetorii, 3rd, 18th, w5th, 71st, 72nd, 73rd, and 303rd.
>Secoracks 52nd "Armored Sons"
>Akrash 33rd.
>55th "Lunar Rangers" EVA specialists
>2.9 million conscripts, taken from Terra, Mars, Luna, 51 other worlds, segmentum solar.

>Forces Returned:
>//NA

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Okay, done with the Supermarines.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qhqoD3fBoDkOep3qbq22RMSsy4Vc1PIx6ndPzfJUfbw/edit

Any input into my legion? I'm going to start putting them together tomorrow

>>50109861
It's hard for people to give feedback when you're not presenting a summary of your latest ideas.

>>50109883
Sorry, yeah, I should have clarified. Not looking for feedback yet, just input, stuff folks would like to see and such.

Feedback will come sunday

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>>50109914
I'd like to see awesome. Do we have a deal?

>>50109914
You want input based on no details?.... Uh... Try to do a good job?...

Don't suck?

Avoid using passive sentence structure in your prose?

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>>50084071
Up next, knight house.

House Agritum, siege specialists, from a toxic world deprived of light and joy, conveniently named Noxia.

>>50110011
Cool. Actually, thinking of Knights...

>>50109976
How are things going with the GKs? Just time/real life, or did you get stuck with something? Not meaning to nag, I'm just keen to see the codex!

>>50110032
The whole dex is hammered out now, just transferring it onto my userpage wheenever i have time. Plus i have to think of fluff and flavor text as i go, but the gameplay stuff is all finished, save for LoW slots, of which I could think of none, just needs to,be formatted and posted. A third of it or so is up on my userpage, and sometime during this weekend ill have the time to put up the rest.

>>50110285
>LoW slots
Did you consider a giant fighting robot formed by combining a dreadnought from each house?

>>50110303
The other idea was cybernetically enhanced sorcerer dinosaurs with jetpacks (fukkin spess-dragons).

I could use the baby carrier since zorg loves his vanilla knights so much.

>>50110285
Seriously? YOU are having crunch problems? Come on now, you have a reputation to uphold.

>>50110442
The problem is one of concept. There aren't many things you can fairly call a Lord of War that lend themselves well to rapid deployment and extraction. Assuming you don't count those "I'm obviously an HQ model but I'm a LoW slot because Games Workshop is stupid" models, which you shouldn't.

>>50110477
Super gunships?

>>50110477
Teleporting Citadels?

>>50110477
Totally not Daemons?

Hi everyone I have been following these generals for a bit and I'm looking to contribute some writing, specifically focusing on the lost and the damned forces, anything I should watch out for?

>>50110537
>anything I should watch out for?
Continuity clashes. That's the big killer in this project.

>>50110537
Grey Knights and Inquisitors, mostly.

>>50110535
I'll come up with something. Currently leaning towards heavily armed gunships.

>>50106142
I thought the point with the AU was changing stuff from canon?

>>50111916
Should be but if no one steps up to write stuff about xenos we simply won't have stuff about xenos.

If someone wants to write about xenos though, by all means go ahead.

>>50111999
Then we simply won't have stuff about Xenos, can we drop the topic now please?

There isn't going to be Xenos stuff, end of story can we get back to more important things please. If anyone wants Xenos stuff do it themselves.

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>>50084071
I have the perfect idea for the knight house.

House Agritum's homeworld is a noxious deathworld where there are no massive beasts to slay and no big wars to fight, there's just barren waste and toxic gas everywhere. It'll be depressing as fuck.

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>>50110537
Psi-titans.

Alright, I'm going to get a coffee, and decide on a name. Then the work shall begin

>>50105440
I'd be willing to give writing Xenos a try, even if other anon won't, but first question is; would the great alien hero the universe deserve actually be allowed to be powerful, or is anyone non-Primarch capped as weaker than Primarchs?

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>>50114600
>I'd be willing to give writing Xenos a try, even if other anon won't, but first question is; would the great alien hero the universe deserve actually be allowed to be powerful, or is anyone non-Primarch capped as weaker than Primarchs?
I don't see why there couldn't be a xeno as powerful as a Primarch.

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FlHTpn6g0jDkQj0NBPX7W_BKnxNKdGsUKSfri-jtzg0/edit

Okay, done with House Agritum. Tomorrow, I'll do Eldar. I decided to do corsairs instead of a craftworld.

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Ork Empire of Angor: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PjcoExgIorf-tN9BQ_rqi2FeFdLBCDlRjg2s8IlxjZo/edit
House Agritum: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FlHTpn6g0jDkQj0NBPX7W_BKnxNKdGsUKSfri-jtzg0/edit
Brutus Old Guard: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F1Stcjpj5d1sWulS8e7AhO0RNj7eYOHBVSf4eP8_T_Y/edit
Tiberon Armoured Hidalgos: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zIbMDoKW5Lh-wWhmBRPUvhS576QJWXZQqYyFBq_nd-Q/edit
Supermarines: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qhqoD3fBoDkOep3qbq22RMSsy4Vc1PIx6ndPzfJUfbw/edit

Now with time left in the day, I shall play Skyrim Remastered.

Naming these bastards is hell.

Right now these are the names I'm torn between.

>Dreameaters
>Nightmare Legion
>Sons of Shadow
>Storm Wraiths
>Havoc Tigers

I cannae decide

>>50114600
Well the Prime orks were actually a great deal stronger than a primarch, so it's not like there isn't precident.

(Tfw you finally realize primeork is an orky pun on primarch).

Andhell, in terms of fluff if not gameplay the Phoenix Lords are just as mean as the primarchs.

>>50116198
I'd vote for Dreameaters or SoS.

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>>50116198
>>50116550
Did somebody say Dreameater?

>>50116550
Eeehhhh, if Dreameater is a Moeshit anime then that narrows things down...

>>50116522
Primeorks, sure, but Phoenix Lords in fluff and crunch are pretty pathetic. Its sad, considering how strong you'd think they can be, but they gone down to really weak stuff before. Nothing like the Primarchs who can fight Titans and crap.

>>50117521
Actually, were it not for their toughness, Jain Zar could take a couple of the primarchs, despite costing less than half of what some of them do, and the OG Asuryan himself has a decent chance of killing ANY primarch, because he's pretty durable and has a 1/6 change of one-shotting them every time he wounds them.

And in Fluff, both of them have shitslapped a dozen greater daemons, and Maugun Ra pulled (like with his hands) a craftworld out of the warp, and is strong enough to bisect a trygon with his power scythe.

Don't underestimate the Phoenix Lords.

The eternal question... Do I spend today working on the codex and drawfagging, or do I waste it playing video games?

>>50117902
Difficult question. I know that Zorg is pushing for his 50,000 words this month and I'm sure that we'll have that missing Legion slot filled pretty soon, so maybe you can guilt yourself into being a credit to team?

>>50118407
Speaking of actually being useful, once we actually get all our legion slots down, I'll get up a Legiones Astartes tactics page done. I actually have a template for it already in the form of the canon tactics page, where they have all the legion units, then subsections for each legion's tactics, formations, and special units.

I think I'm going to start working on that as soon as I finish the OMCM codex, and I'll just add in other sections as the according legions get done.

>>50109719
>>50109700
>>50109687
>>50109672
>>50109659
This is pretty cool. You doing anything else with it?

>>50118885
It's not actually mine, I was just quoting it from a previous thread because Zorg thought it was interesting.

I agree that it's cool though, and I hope the author does write some more. I'm kind of gettin a C'tan vibe from it, but who knows.

>>50117555
Fact is that in Crunch no Phoenix Lord stands a chance against a Primarch. They'll just overwhelmingly lose. That being said I totally get that Crunch isn't necessarily representative of fluff.

However in Fluff Phoenix Lords have died to grenades and dreadnaughts. Primarchs can't even die to Titans or the strongest servants of the Chaos Gods (Anggarath, Kabandha, Kairos and such). There's a clear difference in power in fluff too.

Except Maugan Ra. I'll admit he's clearly the strongest Phoenix Lord and might even be able to give a good fight before dying to one the weaker Primarchs.

>>50118907
I'm not really sure how much this matters. The Primarchs are only around for a few centuries and then go away.

>>50118907
>Except Maugan Ra. I'll admit he's clearly the strongest Phoenix Lord
I think that title goes to Asuryan, in either fluff or gaming. In fluff Asuryan fights a slaaneshi horde for a week before he dies the first time, and in crunch he's the only one that actually stands a chance of killing a primarch, what with his "Fuck your eternal warrior and 7 wounds" sword.

>>50118990
Just saying that arguing Phoenix Lords are anywhere near as strong as Primarchs is incorrect. Phoenix Lords are weak by the standards of the setting for 'mega' type characters, which is par for the course with Eldar really.

Not saying anything more than that.

After a long desicion making process I've decided upon Dreameaters. I'm going to go get dinner, and once I return I'll start building them up. Froggy if you could glance over it every now and then because he's going to be much more involved in events that Caligor and the Eagles were going to be

>>50119146
A Slaaneshi horde kills him. Vulkan literally defeats a planet of Orks and can withstand a gravity beam which is crushing a planet. And he's not even one of the really strong Primarchs.

Look I can get wanting the Phoenix Lords to be stronger, I'd like that too, but I think arguing that fluff indicates Phoenix Lords are at all comparable to Primarchs is just ridiculous. Primarchs have insane feats to their names, Phoenix Lords have died to basic infantry.

>>50119176
Yeah, fair enough. I do love me some Phoenix lords, and on the table they're AMAZING for their points cost, but I suppose it's not fair to equate the two.

BUT WAIT, I CAN WRITE THE PHOENIX LORDS FOR HkH!!!

Scratch everything else, I'm gonna write me some fucking phoenix lords.

>>50119273
Start with Qet'Zelt.

>>50119176
Yeah it's actually sucks. I mean Eldar aren't the strongest Psykers, despite GW's saying so in their codex, humans are clearly stronger Psykers and Eldar's their literal War God High Priests who constantly absorb more and more fighting knowledge and prowess can't even come close to the Primarchs. Yeesh

>>50119273
Good luck

>>50119417
Admittedly, Primarchs are humans the same way that Slaanesh is an Eldar.

>>50119447
That's a shaky analogy right there, except perhaps to say, "they aren't".

>>50119417
Thinking about it from a narrative standpoint that actually makes sense. The primarchs are supposed to be demigods who break the galaxy for their father, whereas the phoenix lords are supposed to be keepers of tradition and paragons of skill. Biologically, they're still just a normal eldar, their soul just inhabits their armor.

>The Void King peered out of the sweeping window into the void, at all the stars to be reclaimed, at all the history lost forever to the degenerate decadence of the fallen Eldar empire. Fools they were, to grow so complacent in a galaxy such as this. He was now forced to breed a new eldar. A race born of war and victory, not a dying race but a conquering one.

>But they still lacked strength that the fledgling races now had. Their youthful vigour, their fresh aggression. The Void King made a hardy people out of a frail race but the mon'keigh were voracious in their appetites for war, a simple breed made for little more than rutting and combat. The Eldar, especially those cloistered in their Craftworlds, had yet to regain this necessary barbarism. All save a few. One in particular had mastered it, a warrior that would match the greatest Primarch of the mon'keigh. One to reclaim the stars in his name. One who stalked the halls of his ship, thinking he wouldn't be detected.

>Ku'Motsk drifted to his throne and bid the room cleared. His attendants obliged and retreated from the great hall. The wraithbone hall boomed with silence, the now vacant hall filled with anticipation, which hung thick in the air like the stench of blood. "Perhaps you should abandon subtlety entirely if you cannot utilize it as you were taught." The king was treated with mocking laughter thag echoed about the throneroom. "Perhaps you're right." The words met his ears softly, whispered directly behind him, the tip of a blade caressing the back of his neck. In a motion that wouldn't have been perceived by anyother eyes but his own Ku'Motsk swirled about, grabbing the assassin and tossing him to the ground, the eldar sent sprawled to the floor with a thunderous crack.

>>50119562
Whoever you are, I love you already

>>50119536
Yeah, great, and Eldar are weaker Psykers than humans too. Lovely tradition to be maintaining. Avatars die left right and center too so basically we're just saying Eldar can't be as strong as humans.

>>50119447
What?

>>50119653
Primarchs aren't humans, they're creatures produced by the activity of humans.
Slaanesh isn't an Eldar, it's a creature produced by the activity of Eldar.

So, really, we should be bitching about how the Primarchs aren't nearly as strong as Slaanesh. Stupid Eldar supremacist setting.

>>50119447
I've never heard anyone call Slaanesh an Eldar before...is this for real?

>>50119694
That's how I feel when people talk about the Primarchs as humans.

>>50119679
Aren't Primarchs just genetically created beings and Slaanesh a God born of metaphysical ritual? I don't know seems kinda a stretch to say they're the same thing.

>>50119679
Actually, doesn't recent lore say that Slaanesh had always existed but he was "woken up" so to speak by the Eldar?

It's part of the recent Chaos Wank, but it still stands.

>>50119725
There was sorcery and stuff involved in the creation of the Primarchs. And obviously they're not the same thing because the Eldar are obviously superior to humans and their super-creation is far far superior to anything the humans could do.

>>50119747
Recent lore also says that the Primarchs couldn't be created without the power of the Chaos Gods. Your move.

>>50119747
Good point, yeah the latest daemon codex said that, didn't it?

>>50119638
>Avatars die left right and center too so basically we're just saying Eldar can't be as strong as humans.
Avatars are not Eldar.

And either way, my point wasn't that the Eldar don't get shit on in the lore, they totally do, but don't act like it would make sense for the Phoenix lords to go toe to toe with a primarch when, on a purely biological standpoint, they're just an eldar. They have tons of experience, yes, and that's represented with their crazy high WS and BS, plus lots of special rules. But they aren't going to magically be twice as tough and strong as any other eldar when they're just inhabitting the body of an Exarch.

>>50119679
That logic is flawed as all hell and you know it. Slaanesh is a god made from thousands of years of psychic eminations. The Primarchs are the science project of one dude, made over the course of a couple decades.

>>50119694
Dude.

<--------------- Here's the point.
<------------------- Here's your head.

>>50119679
Yeah, but the key here is intention.

Also, Primarchs are designed to be kinda like humans. Slaanesh wasn't designed at all, and only bares a passing resemblance to Eldar.

>>50119758
Surely sorcery being involved doesn't make them the same as a literal God? I mean sorcery is involved in making Obliterators and Daemonforged creatures, are we saying they're Gods now too?

Not to mention humanity feeds Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch pretty much exclusively so they still some out on top since Slaanesh is the 'weakest' of the big four.

>>50119790
I think he's just saying new lore is shitty.

I'll cede that point to him.

>>50119790
>Slaanesh is the 'weakest' of the big four.
She's also the youngest of the four, by far.

>>50119815
I thought everything that exists within the Warp is eternal? That is, forward and backwards through time forever?

>>50119767
>Phoenix Lords have WS 7 lower than most Primarchs
>Karandas can't even use his own Exarch Special Rule
Sorry, couldn't resist, butting out now

>>50119826
Slaanesh was born during the fall of the eldar. Nurgle has been around as long as life has been around, Khorne was born roughly during caveman times, Tzeench popped up roughly during the Enlightenment period.

>>50119767
>The Primarchs are the science project of one dude, made over the course of a couple decades.
That's never been part of the lore. The Emperor planned the Great Crusade for centuries and the Primarchs were always created with sorcery. More recently, they've gone with the "swindled the Ruinous Powers" deal for their creation.

>>50119778
I'm not sure about the intentionality. Most of the people of Eldar Empire surely intended to engage in wild excess and degeneracy, which just is Slaanesh.

>>50119790
>Surely sorcery being involved doesn't make them the same as a literal God?
Obviously not, only Eldar can make gods.

>humanity feeds Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch pretty much exclusively
This is just wrong.

>Slaanesh is the 'weakest' of the big four.
Highly dubious. The power of the four waxes and wanes. Nurgle's lore says that he is sometimes the greatest and sometimes the least.

>>50119853
Why did the God of fucking Change, the thing that is happening always, take so long to appear?

>>50119839
If by most primarchs you mean three of them, then yes.

>>50119868
Think his point was that, despite their age, they match the Primarchs at best, and are exceeded by some.

>>50119856
>I'm not sure about the intentionality. Most of the people of Eldar Empire surely intended to engage in wild excess and degeneracy, which just is Slaanesh.
You're being intentionally obtuse.

There's an enormous and obvious difference between unknowingly doing something and setting out with stated goal of doing something. Especially because one was actually built while the other just sort of happened.

>>50119856
Oh come on, are you actually arguing that the Primarchs and Slaaneah are the same thing?

>>50119638
Whilst avoiding the other stuff...I will admit I wish Eldar were better Psykers. Like its this established part of their lore that their race are super Psykers but then, in the setting, Eldar just suck at it. All the top Psykers are humans, Eldar can't even squeeze into the top ten.

That's one thing I'd like to see change, make the Eldar are actually be powerful Psykers.

>>50119905
>You're being intentionally obtuse.
Yeah, that's what this whole discussion is about: being intentionally obtuse.

>There's an enormous and obvious difference between unknowingly doing something and setting out with stated goal of doing something
That's true but irrelevant. The Eldar didn't unknowingly engage in wild excess and degeneracy. They knowingly did so, it was their stated aim to indulge their heightened senses to the maximum degree.

>>50119927
>are you actually arguing that the Primarchs and Slaaneah are the same thing?
I just said that they're not, because only Eldar can make gods. I mean, it's not just Slaanesh they made. There's also Khaine, Cegorach, Isha, and all the rest of the gang.

>>50119964
>Khaine loses to everyone who isn't Kurnos or Vaul
>Cegorach does dick
>Isha gets captured
I-impressive.

C'mon, is it that hard to accept Eldar suck? Eldar are weak in the setting, just how it is, so let's all just move on now. Someone was writing something cool.

>>50119997
Agreed, nothing more can come from this discussion

>>50119997
>Khaine loses to everyone who isn't Kurnos or Vaul
The only non-Eldar deity that Khaine fights is the Nightbringer, the most powerful of the C'tan. And he wins.

>is it that hard to accept Eldar suck?
Clearly it is, because people are desperately twisting the truth and drawing false equivalences to do it.

>>50119562
>The assassin, disguised as one of the king's Incubi, laughed and jumped back to his feet and rushed at the king, his cleaver meeting the Void King's saber with a thunderous crack, the dark throneroom flashing from the light generated from the blow. The Void King was pushed back, the assassin very nearly stronger than him. But not at all as skilled, not yet. Ku'Motsk shifted the weight of the blade, taking the saber across the face his opponent's helmet, shattering it. The killer flew to the other side of the room, his helmet coming apart with a scarlet shower. The Void King sheathed his blade, content to use only his hands as he once would. The assassin sprung to his feet, a tenacious opponent if nothing else. He too lost the blade, tossing it aside. He greeted the Void King with a flurry of blows, which Ku'Motsk answered with a storm of blocks and counterblows which the assassin retorted with a dizzying array of deflections and ripostes. His opponent was relentless and unflinching, and laughed with great mirth all the while.

>"You are slower than ever, elder!" The assassin commented before being swept of his feet. "And you have learned nothing." The king said, drawing his blade and pressing it against the Eldar's temple, "Yeild." The young eldar snarled "Nonsense, I'm as strong as ever." The king scoffed, "Strength is not wisdom. Wisdom is strength. Now yield, before I am forced to deprive myself of future disappointment." The eldar sighed, pawing away the blade from his head, "I yeild." The King stowed his blade and returned to his throne, allowing his would be assassin to regain his feet.

It now occurs to me that writing phoenix lords pretty much means straight up writing an eldar codex, because it also means I'm writing the aspect shrines.

>>50120491
What's the worst that could happen?

>>50120511
I loose even more of my precious time? I already have six codices I need to write. Three of those are largely done, but still. There's only so much time in a day.

But I'm still going to write them because of course I am.

>>50120256
>"I will admit, you have gained much strength. But it takes more than brute strength to be a king." The false Incubus laughed, "Perhaps you should tell that to the Mon'Keigh Warlord. The glittering shael'na with his bumbling clan." The king waved off the comment, "His is a kingdom destined to fall, the seers have forseen it. It's rotting descendant will be quickly dispatched by the coming darkness, and through our might." The young eldar nodded, grinning and worked to remove himself from his curiass, now shattered and crooked from the blows of the king. Ku'Motsk, returned to his station behind his wraithbone seat, and examined the stars beyond, "What of your brood?" he asked.

>The young Eldar, frustrated with the armor simply ripped it off his person, his chest now left bare, the sigil carved into his broad chest glowing like a low flame, the only gift he received at his birth, "Vaaltan is with the Dei'dain peoples, learing their crafts and their forges. Ish'Ala will not speak to me, but Cernaugh tells me they ride with a party of corsairs, tending to them and those that provide them shelter. She is with good folken, and Cernaugh leads them. The others have hidden themselves away after...after Thonoclath." The battle was still fresh in his mind, the taste of blood, hot in his mouth, visited him briefly. "Then you have done well. They will have seen it as a cruelty, as a crime unspeakable. But you did what was necessary. Perhaps you will make a true leader after all, Kahnabaine." The elder nodded, his eyes fierce. Of his future, and the future of his people, he was sure. "But," the king interjected, subduing the warrior's pride, "You still must learn prudence and humility and master your wildness. Without forbearance, you will doom this throne. And with it, our conquest." Kahnabaine hung his head, "I will try, Father."

>>50120130
Why are Eldar Gods being compared to Primarchs? That's dumb. Shouldn't mortal Eldar be compared to them? Like Magnus and whoever the Eldar chief Psyker is?

Now the issue becomes how to justify from a fluff standpoint why our phoenix lords would be getting stronger and stronger when the canon P.L. are, from a purely biological standpoint, just a particularly fit eldar with the mind of a PL.

Imagine if, instead of merely gaining new experience with each life they live, they gain the soul of the Exarch they're possessing, that each time they die, the soul of the body they possessed joined the Phoenix Lord's soul in an increasingly powerful soul collective.

Somewhere between The Emperor's origins, and the Avatar Cycle from the series of the same name.

>>50120572
>>50120256
I like this. My only issue is that I already have Ku'motsk having kids with different names than the one you chose, but its not like that's posted on the wiki or matters.

>>50110508
>>50110527
>>50110535
I eventually decided on a walker that sits somewhere between the Thanatar mechanicus battle construct and a dreadnought.

It's power systems and control interface are so damaging that it will kill the marine inhabiting it in a matter of days, and the implantation process has a high chance of killing the marine, and works best on a healthy marine.

That way you get you're big bad battle construct, but it adds some grimdark back into the army because you have to kill a marine (or three) every time you want to use the thing, so you only break out one of these badboys when you're well and truly fucked.

>>50120605
If you need to compare mortal Eldar to the immortal creations of humans enhanced with the power of the Ruinous Powers to prove your point that the Eldar are weak, you're only proving how slanted your views are. Compare the strongest mortal Eldar to the strongest mortal humans. Far-Seers make a mockery of Primaris Psykers. Phoenix Lords go through Commissars like a hot knife through air.

>>50120572
>Ku'Motsk regarded his son, one of his most prized possessions and greatest secrets. He was a bastard, as was the rest of his miraculous litter. But it would be their blood that would reignite the flames of a greater Eldar Empire, and for that they were hidden. "That mark upon your chest is a sign. Of greatness and hope for our people. But the Mark of Khaine is also a curse, if you allow it to rule your soul. A lesson you did not learn, and one your brother paid for in the ruins of Thonoclath." He strode forward and placed a paternal hand upon his son's head, his thick black hair tousled and damp with sweat from their spar. The motion was almost awkward, considering their relationship, but both eldar simply took it as a King comforting a trusted warrior. "The blood of our creators flows through the veins of you and your kin. The only blessing our dead gods have given us. In this Empire there is nothing given, only earned. Now you must prove to yourself and to this throne," Ku'Motsk pointed to his grand seat of office, pulling his son's bowed head up, "that you are worthy to conquer the galaxy once your time comes." Kahnabaine stood, almost taller than his father and far sturdier, and brimmed with determination, "I will not fail you, father. Nor will the others, for they shall see their purpose fulfilled. Either by their will or my hand, it will be done." With this stern visage their relationship was most clear, his face a bold reflection of his father's.

>>50120730
I suppose it depends on what you consider to be human, because a lot of those mechanicus big bad battlebots have a human somewhere under all that metal. Be fun to see how an autarch fares in combat against one of them.

>>50120808
>The Void King regarded the smouldering Mark of Khaine one last time, before returning to his reading of the inky depths of the galaxy, "Then go. Guard your brothers and sisters, for there is a storm upon the horizon. The Mon'Keigh are about to crack the seals of fate and the Enemy will come rushing through. The galaxy will not be the same, and it will need you more than ever, son of Harakien."

>The bastard bowed, and retreated from the throneroom. The Void King furrowed his brow, the future that was about to unfold more terrifying than he would like to admit. And at the center of it all, the children of these Mon'Keigh, and the children of Harakien...

>>50119562
>>50120256
>>50120572
>>50120808
>>50120826
For ease of reading.

>>50120672
These are bastard children. The Star Sensei of the Harakien Empire

>>50120621
Well, at the time of the Great Crusade, the original Phoenix Lords are probably still around. Maugan Ra only emerges from the Warp five centuries after the Fall, so Asurmen must still be alive in late M30 to teach MR.

So you could make stronger stats for the originals and say that the Phoenix Lords of the current Codex are weaker because they're only being guided by the spirits or some other wu crystal explanation.

>>50120859
>Well, at the time of the Great Crusade, the original Phoenix Lords are probably still around. Maugan Ra only emerges from the Warp five centuries after the Fall, so Asurmen must still be alive in late M30 to teach MR.
And Asurmen couldn't have taught him in his reincarnated form because?....

>>50120859
Yeah, the stats and codex will be balanced against 40k codices anyway.

>>50120930
Asurmen's bio strongly implies that the other Phoenix Lords were taught before his first death. They're the very first Exarchs, after all. I guess you could say that Asurmen only started taking on pupils after his death, but that seems like a pretty big thing not to mention. (It also raises serious questions about how that reincarnation happened.)

>>50120844
>>50119562
>>50120256
>>50120572
>>50120808
>>50120826
Thoughts?