Warhammer 40,000 General

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Repostan cause no reply in moldy old bread

>>50058295

Forgeworld actually updating Badab Chapters when

Has anyone considered the timing issues for joining ICs to units in relation to genecult?
Wouldn't a player have to roll one cult ambush dice for the unit, then roll a second cult ambush dice for the IC and deploy it in coherency with the unit to join it?

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I claim this thread in the name of the Imperial Guard.

Hold the line. No retreat. No surrender. We die standing.

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So im trying to think of a way too make my traitor guard seem Chaosy, any tips on that im already adding puss and open bellies for example to the oggryns, any tips advice maybe even a colour scheme

>>50058434
Give us the exact rules conundrum, I'm not as familiar with Corsairs but I did glance the facebook FAQ that one time

>>50057389
>Even if you read the books cover to cover, it's too much.
Not even remotely close. 40k is an extremely simplistic system, and the vast majority of rule issues crop up because people can't be bothered to actually read.

>>50057382
Yeah, it's baffling how people struggle with such simple shit. Practically every general we get someone acting retarded about detachments.

>>50058434
>FW clearing things up
Good one. You can shoot them an e-mail, and they'll likely answer. Of course, they might answer differently if you ask again.

Corsairs are hilarious. They're just as infuriatingly unfun to play against as regular Eldar, despite being a fairly mediocre army power-level-wise.

>>50058582
Spikes, lots of spikes

>>50058582
Greenstuffing a tentacle or two onto Characters never hurt

>>50058438
It's a shame that GW hasn't put out a Codex: Space Marines supplement that's just a ton of Chapter Tactics.

>>50058594
(not that anon, but) the corsair psykers all say "may select powers from x" instead of the usual "generate their powers from x"

as well, reckless abandon reads "when making a shooting attack at an enemy within 12", the unit may immediately move 6", as long as they end no closer to their target".

>>50058582
Have you thought about doing it the other way around? Like, instead of taking humans and making them weird you take something wierd and make it humany.

Like, take some Ork boyz, paint them in human flesh colours and give them little wigs and stuff so they're not so bald.

Posting again since the last thread devolved into /pol/

So I'm slapping together a Mekboy Junka, I already have the Shokk Attack gun assembled and attached.

Now the debate on on the pintle mounts, but I need some clarification first.
-Is there a specific place each pintle mounted weapon must go? Or can I just put them all on the front hull?

-Is putting all Skorchas on worthless? If I'm reading the rules correctly and I move 6" and shoot my shokk attack gun, I can't shoot the skorchas, since templates can't snap-fire.

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>>50058574

You'll be holding a line alright, and you certainly won't be going anywhere for a long while.

>>50058609
>>50058613
Kinda not happy with the normal Guardsmen heads, any idea what i could use

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re release of years old Sisters of Battle novels in omnibus format next year

just a coincidence?

>>50058623
Yeah, you pick your powers rather than roll for them with corsairs and they can move during their overwatch.

Basically, they're Eldar.

>>50058623
First one is crystal clear, if it says select, you select.

>>50058633
I would totally try that out if i had orks

>>50058598
>40k is an extremely simplistic system
>extremely simplistic

Are you sure you're using the right words?

>>50058640
Do this
>>50058633
fucking do it

>>50058636
>last thread devolved into /pol/
I did not "devolve in to /pol/".

The anon was just stating you don't want to bring your girlfriend in to a game store full of weird, smelly people.
Even if they don't try to molest her or anything.

>>50058662

You can explain move, shoot, assault and the stat block in minutes, to be fair.

It's just bloated to all hell and back.

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>>50058643
I'm just happy that Grey Knights are getting some fluff love with a Crowe backstory book.

>>50058643
Give it to me.

How do the space cows stack up against the other armies? I remember the new codex being OP a couple years ago.

>>50058665
Im seriously thinking about that....

>>50058564
Source? Looking through the FAQs on facebook, there's nothing that says that.

I genuinely want to learn more about sex in the 40,000 universe.

Sucks that they don't explain shit. Wish we could see anatomy textbooks.

No overtly sexual pandering. Just information.

Don't you want to know what a space cow's cunt looks like? I bet it looks like a spider.

>>50058668
I was talking about the people bitching about Obama and Hillary.

>>50058684

From what I've seen in battle reports on tabletop tactics (I've ordered a small army from china to test them) they are pretty good when supported with a Knight and potentially the forgeworld flyer they can use.

Lots of long range melta combo'd with flamers is nice. They lack all the free buffs formations give them like any other old army though and aren't especially tricksy.

Celestine struggles against monstrous creatures but being able to get back up and fly away then flamer shit is pretty cool.

Over all it looks like it feels like playing Dark eldar but tougher and slower

>>50058748
Just drop it. Shit's over and done with.

People are so sensitive when it comes to politcal bullshit. Thread was dead and we were just talking.

>>50058536
ICs can join units in Reserve.

>>50058762
Is there a tier list I can look at?

If some of you guys could rank the armies in terms of power, that'd be fucking awesome.

No need to argue over it; I just want a general idea.

>>50058762
>I've ordered a small army from china to test them

Yeah, what's up with all the Warhammer shit being shipped from China? Is it all fake stuff? I see it on eBay when I browse for models.

>>50058794

If you Google the Las Vegas open results it gives a pretty clear view of the top tiers;

Eldar, Tau, Space Marines of most flavours are top tier

Dark Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines are bottom tier

Everything else is in the middle with some exceptions for cheesy play (chaos daemons death star for example)

>>50058818
If its from China its fake, GW produces everything from the UK, if Im not mistaken they only print the books in China.

>>50058662
If you think 40k is a complex system, you should find a simpler hobby. Like >>50058674 said, the issue is bloat and poor wording. 40k has tons of rules that all try to do the same thing in slightly different ways.

Other than the redundancy and bloat, 40k's major issues are the scale 28mm is not an appropriate scale for company level engagements or Knight-sized units or aircraft, the turn system the I-go-You-go system results in huge amounts of down-time for each player and drastically decreases the amount of possible counter-play, and the D6 not granular enough to showcase the difference between units- almost everything in the game succeed on a 3+, a 4+, or a 5+ and the vast majority of stats are between 3-6. None of those are really things that would be fixed by "streamlining."

>>50058835
I thought they printed the books in Poland. At least they used to do that, the same with WDs

>>50058818

It's affectionately termed yoyhammer, some small business in China buys a model, replicates the mould using it and creates cheap casts of the sprues using most likely more toxic resins. Generally more much more brittle than normal models, prone to warping and bubbling and loses some of the quality.

The plus side? An army that would cost you between £350-400 from a 3rd party retailer costs around £200 from China and once painted up to table top standard is almost indistinguishable. I get most of my forgeworld stuff from China. An Eldar Revenant Titan (£210) is only £30 from China, I've resold 3 on eBay to cover a couple of my armies

>>50058827
>Chaos Space Marines are bottom tier

Alright, what the fuck? CSM was just updated a year or two ago. Weren't they OP as fuck?

I also don't understand how Chaos Daemons went from being bottom tier to being cheese.

Also, I thought Tyranids were updated as well.

I'll google that tournament now.

>>50058835
I fucking hate China. Bunch of scam artists. Should be banned from eBay.

>>50058857
>If you think 40k is a complex system, you should find a simpler hobby.

Fuck off, you arrogant prick. No need to be a stuck up asshole. Also, why are you using the spoiler text feature like a fucking retard?

>>50058910

Nerfs to flying monstrous creatures and the heldrake I believe ruined CSM along with other armies getting great formations they couldn't compete with, they just got some formations but they're not that great.

China sales are a good source for cheap Forgeworld and Metal model, both of which are overpriced and shitty as fuck to work with in the first place.

>>50058910
CSM haven't been anywhere near OP for well over a decade. Daemons have been great for ages.

Updated doesn't mean good.

>>50058963
>CSM haven't been anywhere near OP for well over a decade
Heldrakes were pretty fucking faggotrocious when 6th CSM dropped. The errata was made to nerf them.

>Daemons have been great for ages
Outside of Screamerstar they were pretty shit before KDK updated Thirsters and the army as a whole only recently got good with CotW

>>50058910
CSM have the oldest codex in the game. Their competitiveness was entirely based on the Baledrake, which suffered a couple nerfs between the edition shift and an FAQ change.

Chaos Daemons have been fluctuating in power since their 6e book. Screamerstar/Pinkstar were both powerful builds in sixth, and are still decent enough when backed up by Summoning. Flying Circus builds are likewise quite powerful with Summoning to shore up their numbers. Still, the random nature hurts them; it's better to be consistently good than to be inconsistently great. They just got some powerful new formations in Curse of the Wulfen that knocked them back up towards the top.

Tyranids got an update, but it was shit. They got gutted by Cruddace back in 6e, and nobody has bothered picking up the pieces.

>>50058930
40k isn't a complex game. Sorry that this triggers the tard. I like to use spoilers when putting asides/explanations inside a larger body of text. Basically just using them as parentheses that also hide the content when not being examined.

>>50058745
He's bullshitting
It was FAQ'd in 30k, not 40k
>>50058434
It works in exactly the way to make Corsairs more powerful, yes

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>>50058955
Did a new Edition come out?

I'm seeing a faction called "Renegades" in these tournament results. Looked them up, and they're called Renegade Knights on the GW website. Only two entries, though. One's the codex.

Can someone tell me what's up with these fuckers? This model looks absolutely beautiful.

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>>50059037
>I like to use spoilers when putting asides/explanations inside a larger body of text. Basically just using them as parentheses that also hide the content when not being examined.

>>50059109
its just a slightly converted imperial knight.

>>50059109
They're Imperial Knights, but Chaos'd. That's it.

The only differences is they are like a Build-a-Knight instead of the loyalists where there is a list of preset loadouts to choose from, so you can give one two gatling guns if you want. The tradeoff is that if you build a loyalist equivalent it'll end up being more expensive.

They also have their own list if relics, and can ally differently (Daemons and CSM instead of loyalist forces, mostly).

The "Renegade Knight" kit is just a normal Knight with a Chaos transfer sheet though.

>>50059037
>Tyranids got an update, but it was shit. They got gutted by Cruddace back in 6e, and nobody has bothered picking up the pieces.

Story time?

>>50059191
Not even gonna try to understand the second part. I was gonna type out what I think you're trying to say, but I'm gonna look retarded. I'll have to read the rules.

>Chaos transfer sheet

What's that?

>>50059296
transfers are those little 'stickers' you cut out after soaking in water, and apply them to models. they're all the chaosy symbols on the knight >>50059109

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>>50059296
Which part? The Build-a-Knight bit? Relics?

A transfer sheet is a little piece of card with water transfers on it. You use them to put iconography on your models so you don't have to paint that shit. Pic related is a typical example.
The Renegade Knight box has one with Chaos shit on it instead of loyalist Knight stuff that you get if you just buy a regular Knight. Otherwise their kits are identical.

>>50059342
Oh, alright. I bet those are pretty easy to fuck up.

Knowing me, they'd end up slightly crooked – triggering my autism forever. Or I'd ruin the stickers, lol.

>>50059342

They're shit.

I mean don't get me wrong, shorthand for learning tricky as fuck freehand skills, but mixed medium on a model looks like ass compared to just having all paint.

>>50059362
>>50059362
>The only differences is they are like a Build-a-Knight instead of the loyalists where there is a list of preset loadouts to choose from, so you can give one two gatling guns if you want. The tradeoff is that if you build a loyalist equivalent it'll end up being more expensive.

That part. I need a better explanation. I don't understand.

If it's not easy to explain, then don't bother. I'll figure it out eventually.

>>50059037
The game is crazy complex, just not always as deep as the complexity would seem to indicate. At least, if you define "Complexity" as the number of interlinking rules and mechanics and "Depth" as the number of viable strategies, scenarios, and viable army lists you can design.

>>50059109
>>50059378
Call me a retard, but I think they look pretty good on that model.

>>50059390
Basically the Imperial Knight codex has a bunch of different Knights in it, each of which has a static loadout.
Like the Knight Paladin which always has a Battle Cannon and a D sword, or the Gallant who always has a sword and a fist.

Renegade Knights start out with a sword and fist, but you can pay points to upgrade them with all the different guns, so you can give it two Battle Cannons if you want. Loyalists can't do that.

If you try to duplicate a loyalist loadout (like trying to make a Chaos Paladin) the cost of the upgrades mean your Renegade will cost more than his loyalist equivalent, so if you play a Renegade you exercise your custom-building privilege and do shit the loyalists can't. My favorite loadout is two Avenger cannons for maximum BRRRT.

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So why are Tyranids shit? Who's this Cruddace fucker? Is he as bad as Matt Ward?

>>50059390

GW made Knights (huge robot things) and originally they came in a few flavours with a set list of weapons. A big chainsaw and a big gatling gun and a flamer on the kneecap.

Then they brought out more flavours with a few more options and extras but still they were specific flavours.

The renegade knight let's you pick anything you want for each slot (left arm right arm kneecaps missile pods on top) but if you make an arrangement that's the same as one of the earlier premade flavours it'll cost more

1250 salamanders new player rate my list

HQ

Vulkan He'stan -190
-Master Crafted Bolt Pistol

Elites

-Ironclad Dreadnought -180
-Drop Pod
-Melta + Heavy Flamer

-Sternguard Veterans -210
-Drop Pod
-Sarge w/Combi-Melta and Master Crafted Lightning Claw
-3 Vets w/Combi-Melta
-1 Vet w/Heavy Flamer

Troops

-Tactical Squad -200
-Rhino
-Sarge w/ Master Crafted Combi-Flamer
-Flamer and Multi-Melta

-Tactical Squad -200
-Rhino
-Sarge w/ Master Crafted Combi-Flamer
-Flamer and Multi-Melta

Fast Atack

-Assault Squad -135
-Drop pod
-Sarge w/ Master Crafted Lighting claw, Bolt Pistol and Melta Bombs
-2 Bolt Pistol and Chain Sword
-2 Flamers and Chain Sword

Heavy Support

-Vindicator- 135
-Siege Shield
-Storm Bolter

>>50059467
>Matt Ward is bad
Step one: don't believe this retarded meme. Wardexes were ahead of their time, nothing more. They'd be considered underpowered in the game as it is.

Cruddace, on the other hand, deserves all most of the shit he gets. He's raped Tyranids two editions in a row and is the reason why they are so unplayable.

>>50059435
That's dope as fuck, actually.

So Imperial Knights and Renegade Knights are exclusively about big models?

Jesus Christ.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Exalted-Court-House-Terryn-Rules-Bundle

$940 Canadian. Fisher-Price dollars, but still.

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>>50059492
How? How has he raped Tyranids? This is interesting as fuck.

Make sure you help this guy as well: >>50059482

We can talk about Tyranids at the same time.

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>>50058794

Here. Rated worst to best based on ITC standings.

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Can anyone post the full un-glitched version of this?

>>50059551

Also, Skitari are low because the one guy at the top skewed the data apparently.

>>50059551

It should be noted that ITC has its own rules regarding list building and other sanctions that bring the armies a bit more in line, so your mileage will vary massively from this list.

For instance they only use 2 source lists (1 CAD 1 Formation for example) which prevents a lot of the cheesy bullshit you'll get in normal games, I'm not sure but I think they only allow you to choose 1 army aswell so no bringing the best eldar models and the best tau models in the same list for example

>>50059635
I don't even know who the Skitari are. Honestly thought I knew all the factions prior to the last few days.

>>50059551
How do I read this? Because I'm pretty sure Skitarii should be way higher than >>50059635
oh.

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>>50059657
Skitarii are Admech infantry. They're really the same army but GW decided to be maximum jews and split them into Skitarii and Admech proper. They're typically fielded together regardless.

>>50059551

Orks are pretty high on that list.

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>>50059553

>>50059652
Sounds like a cool way to play. I'm all for balance changes.

That's about the only thing Mk II Warmachine/Hordes did right.

I'm about to hop over to the Warmachine/Hordes thread for a second. I'm wondering how balanced Mk III is.

>>50059679
Thanks.

>>50059652

Being pedantic - its 3 sources. That said it is also worth noting that they expressly do NOT require events to use their comp pack but the results still count towards the ITC scores.

>>50059690
Thanks a fuckton man.

>>50059551
>Orks not low-tier
>Guard low-tier

What the fuck am I reading? Is this the Discount Stompa meme in action?

>>50059738

Idk, someone sent a link to some plebbit autist who compiled the data last thread.

>>50059530
He made them go from a really solid and interesting codex, comparable to Necrons now (really good at their mode of play, and have a lot of interesting and different options), to a bottom-tier codes that gets beaten in its own codex.

The reason being he's a guard (it's guard, right? I couldn't remember if it was them or Marines) player and hated the fluff/tabletop victories they had, so he straight up said when it was announced he was gonna neuter the army.

And he did, everything sucks now, with the Flyrants being the sole exception. On top of that, he turned a terrifying end-all-be-all (literally!) threat into the Saturday morning villain, that pops up and makes a "threat" but is instantly and hilariously beaten back.

Which sucks, cause I like Tyranids, the swarm or monster spam (of course now MCs are everywhere) aspect made for some kickass play. Also, With the weak codex a lot of Nid players stopped playing, and that especially hurt because they were undoubtedly some of the most skilled artists, the work I've seem is imo some of the best looking ever.

But oh well, I don't particularly care for their end time setting. However it did make also Chaos the undisputed "hur dur we the scariest threat evar!!!!111!!!one11!!!" force, so take from that what you will.

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I'm about to start a new army; got some BA on the cheap and will be building a Archangels demi company and a 10th company ambush force. Should I make them a successor chapter (would fit in well with the campaigns I play in) or plain BA?

What rules and traditions do a BA successors follow?

>>50059738

Imperial Guard a bad tier army despite your hopes, dreams or beliefs.

>>50059760
Thank you for taking the time to write that. Appreciate it, man. I was curious as fuck.

>>50059786
They're low-mid at worst. With access to cheap tanks, Vendetta, Pask, Chimeravets and formations like Emps' Wrath they can be usable. Not at all able to hold a candle to actually high-tier armies of course, but they will stomp face in the kiddie pool that is shit-tier codices.

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>>50058684
I'd classify them as a mid-tier army provided they have some form of allied support. I have lots of fun playing them, but the codex has awful internal balance. About half the units in there are must-haves, and the others are of questionable use at best.

>>50058762
>Over all it looks like it feels like playing Dark eldar but tougher and slower

That's a fairly accurate assessment.

Also, plugging for the /tg/ 7e Sisters fandex which just got updated:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Adepta_Sororitas:_/tg/_7th_Edition

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>>50059783
suffering
black rage
red thirst

>>50059786
Are they? Where should they rank?

When were they last updated? Are they being ignored?

>>50059826
Yeah, I was thinking do they have any councils or ties with other chapters apart from the flaws they share.

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Tell me again why Chaos is worse than the Imperium?

>>50059482
A couple of questions: Is there a particular reason you have a vindicator in the list? Also why the lightning claws? To which unit is Vulkan attached to?

>>50059846
All successors have ties to their original chapter, a primogenitor can ask all their successor to help them and they will answer the call out of duty and respect, the exceptions are DA on one extreme where their successors answer directly to the grandmaster, they are subordinated to him as opposed to just tied and those chapters that dont know who their original chapter is and have no familiar ties.

>>50059824

Sure I won't debate that they're OK in the shit heap that is about half the books. That said beating Tyranids or CSM doesn't really impress me.

>>50059828

They aren't going to compete - at all - with top tier books and really even with the 'solid but not quite top' tier armies like KDK.

They were updated I guess 2 or 3 years ago? I don't think they're being ignored, they just don't have the tools to deal with the more powerful elements of the game.

The Elimination Volley special rule doesn't specify that the Kastelan Robot landing the wound has to be from the Formation, does it?

So technically a Kastelan from another unit than the one in the Formation also triggers that rule, correct?

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>>50059880
Would you rather work 20 hours a day to earn the bare minimum wage needed to survive in an incaring world, or be torn screaming from your physical body and vilently raped for the remainder of eternity?
Chaos seeks the end of the material universe and all life, not just destruction of life as we know it but utter annihilation of all living things that do not bow to the depraved will of Chaos itself.

The Imperium wishes only to preserve a status quo, which despite being indescribably shitty is the best they have. They aren't the "good guys" by a long shot, but they're a damn sight better than the alternative from the point of view of the average joe but in-universe and out.

>>50059109
>I'm seeing a faction called "Renegades" in these tournament results.

Are you sure you're not seeing Renegades and Heretics, which is a Forge World Faction? They're actually pretty solid competitively, and some of their stuff can be ridiculous with some lucky rolls.

>>50059950
>literally bled dry to feed a generator for an hour.

>end up having my soul claimed by the Chaos gods anyway

>>50059919
>That said beating Tyranids or CSM doesn't really impress me.

Okay, but that doesn't make them shit-tier. No, they definitely aren't anywhere near the top, but they shouldn't be anywhere near the bottom, either. Guard is a decent codex, but in the game as-is, being merely decent doesn't cut it.

So not at the top, but not at the bottom. Where does that put them? Around the middle.

>>50059825
>fandex

Doesn't sound good.

>>50059919
Thanks.

Is it 100% confirmed that the Flesh Eaters are cannibals?

How do you run Flesh Eaters specifically? Do you just paint your models differently? I know there's at least one actual Flesh Eaters model.

I'm not sure how Space Marines work as a faction.

>>50060013
They're a Blood Angels successor, so you'd use their codex and paint the models as Flesh Eaters.

>>50059894
Vulkan can roll with the sternguard or assaults

Lightning claws over power swords as it's rerolls to hit and to wound

Vindicator gives me a big boy template and has to be dealt with most games as I ususally face off against demons chaos space marines necrons and orcs

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>>50060000
>not knowing the soul of the righteous man goes to meet the God-Emperor
>not knowing He is the Light in the Darkness and the Defender of Mankind
>not knowing the Emperor fucking protects
O ye of little faith.

>>50059970
Just said Renegades. Wasn't a 30K tournament, either. No clue. I closed that tab some time ago.

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>>50059738

>Discount Stompa

Why do people talk about that thing like it's good or something?

Most of it's weapons aren't that good and even at 400+ points it's not all that great.

That being said, I suppose it's better than the Astra-Militarum Lords of War.

>>50060049

Yeah you're very likely just seeing Renegades and Heretics which is a FW traitor guard faction.

>>50059919
Then again, there was that one guy who one 2/3s of his tournament matches using pretty much nothing but an Emp's Shield Company. But you know, exceptions to the rule and all that.

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>>50060059
>Three big shootas
Well stop the fucking presses, this thing is more heavily-armed than a fucking Warhound Titan and also costs like 100 points more

The reason I mentioned it is because I know little of ITC other than the dubious FAQs they put out that legalized Buzzgob's Stompa. Frankly that is all I can think of to explain why Orks are anything but low-bottom on that list.

>>50058835

There is a single exception, they do produce the AOS terrain line (like the wizard's tower thing etc) in China.

t. Former Blackshirt

>>50060113

They could just be wracking up points scenario wise.

Aren't there some missions that favor large model count armies?

Not really sure how ITC works, but I don't assume it's just Kill Points.

>>50060098

I could win 2/3rds of most of my matches at any smaller event with an army I generated using a D20. Winning a small events is very rarely a worthwhile showing given you have 0 idea what the level of competition looks like and will likely not be that good.

why are necron the best faction ?

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>>50060039
>he believes the Corpse can actually do anything

So how about Orks? Why are Orks weak?

Did someone fuck them over? Have they been ignored?

Seems like they're beloved by the fan base. Don't know why they're not being shown more love.

>>50059760
I love my nids but I also enjoy actually winning sometimes, so I've been playing a lot of different forces recently with some proxies. I really, really hope that there's good update soon to fix them so I don't have shelf my bugs.
Is there any chance that there will be a tyranid update now that GSC have come out? I feel like they wouldn't put those that close to each other.

>>50060010

I legitimately think IG are better than 'Nids, CSM, and Orks. I don't think they're a very good army. Other than those 3 armies I think every other major army is consistently better than Guard.

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>>50060154
That's not how you spell o p i n i o n s

>>50060194

Don't all of those armies have the Astra-Militarum beat in a lot of categories?

>>50060216

None of the categories that matter when looking at 'how to win 40k'.

>>50060049
Renegades and Heretics is a 40K Forge World faction, located in IA:13.

They're basically Guard that have Chaos bits and unique units, are slightly cheaper, but have unreliable leadership (and therefore must be husbanded carefully to employ effectively). They're solid competitively, but most importantly they're fun as fuck.

>>50060194
They'll probably shit all over Dark Eldar with their heavy ordnance now that Blasterborn is more or less dead. I've seen a single Hellhound do horrible, horrible things to that army, and Emps' Wrath/spamming Russes can deal with Corpsethief Claw just fine.

>>50060258
>R&H blobs with artilleryspam especially FUCKING wyverns
>100000000 templates and bodies
>turns can take literally hours
>fun

>>50060240

Is Lords of War one?

I think Chaos and Orks have Astra-Militarum beat there.

>>50060282

No, LoW is a joke. There are very few that are meaningful and the ones that are are so far above the rest of the competition (Stormsurge, Knights, Wraith Knights) that fielding one that isn't one of those is a waste of points.

>>50060272
Fucking this

Not sure why everyone chooses to ignore this obvious fact. Traitor guard are boring as fuck to fight against, and i know rolling 40 scatter templates isn't fun.

They become more bearable if the player takes Marauders and Chaos Ogryns, maybe some spawn so the army isnt just a static gunline.

>>50059296
>Story time?
It was actually 5th.

Cruddace was put in charge of Nids, but he was a butthurt Guard fanboy who lost to them one too many times in 4e when he first joined GW so he nerfed the crap out of them. The big time nid community guys invited to playtest didn't take too kindly to this, and politely tried to offer criticism, but became increasingly frustrated as it was just straight up ignored, and then Cruddace went full sperg at the idea that people weren't cowing to his shitty version of Tyranids as weak dumb space bugs for the brave soldiers of the Guard to use as target practice, and nerfed them even harder out of sheer vindictiveness.

When 6e rolled around and it was time to update them again, they ran out of time because corporate was pushing for the models to be put on shelves and they wanted the official rules that didn't have models phased out ASAP because of the Chapter House incident. So they just had Cruddace phone in basically a copypaste of the same shit book again with added warlord traits that were the worst any army ever got and some "Bio-Artefacts" because fuck the lore amirite.

Basically the faction has had its fluff and crunch both shit on by a guy who literally hates Nids and nid players for 8 years.

>>50060282
>Chaos
LoS is shit, it does have some fun weapons that would be good if it didn't cost literally 3x as much as a wraithknight and 20 points off a revenant titan

>Orks
see >>50060059 they're as shit as the rest of the faction

>>50060322

There's a bloke in my old FLGS that played them, and literally no-one played him after a while. Having turns take hours while he runs around with hundreds of zombies and cultists is not fun, at all.

>>50060293
>>50060338

What about things like the Chaos Knight, Renegade Knight, Brass Scorpion or Kustom Stompa?

Thoughts on the following list. Some notes - we do play ITC at my store, this list is for our upcoming league. The goal is to be competitive - my meta is fairly lax, we have solid players but for the most part you don't see the hard as nails netlists.

1847/1850 - Dark Eldar Primary

Dark Eldar CAD
>Haemonculus - Webway Portal
>5x Warriors - Sybarite (Warlord), Venom w/Splinter Cannon upgrade
>5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon upgrade
>5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon upgrade
>5x Warriors - Venom w/Splinter Cannon upgrade
>Razorwing Jetfighter - Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon
>Razorwing Jetfighter - Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon

Eldar Allied Detachment
>Autarch Skyrunner - Banshee Mask, Fusion Blaster
>3x Jetbikes
>3x Jetbikes
>5x Wraithguard - D-Scythes

Corpse Thief Claw
>5x Talos

The Haemonculus and Autarch join the Wraithguard and then deepstrike wherever they can do the most damage. The Haemonculus then dies first as ablative wounds for the unit.

The CTC is a hard pivot for the army, it does very well in pushing the center and generally presenting a slow threat that still needs to be dealt with.

The warriors just scoot around in venoms and dump out on the last turn to contest or control objectives as the case may be, the jetbikes follow suit.

Finally the Razorwings are just another offensive threat that fills some anti-tank as well as anti-hordes with their bombs.

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>>50060113
>blitz brigade
Oh god, my sides still hurt remembering that.

Remember when GW FAQ'd that? Only they didn't FAQ it so you cou;dn't scout a transport and charge, they FAQ'd it by making it so ORKS CAN'T EVEN START WITHIN THE TRANSPORT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

SO, LITERALLY EVERYONE BUT ORKS CAN ABUSE IT!
And lets not forget
>they're really fired up!

That was some NEXT LEVEL bullying.

>>50060411

Chaos Knights are solid enough because they're just knights. Brass Scorpion and Kustom stompa are super meh choices when you look at the top of the boards.

>>50060034
Aight, a couple of suggestions.

1. Drop the multimeltas on the tacs. Here's why. If you're keeping them in 10 man squads, the multimelta will be wasted if you move or shoot at things the flamers want to kill. If you shoot at things the multimelta wants to kill, your bolters and flamers will be wasted. If you're combat squadding them, the 24" range requires a bit of movement to get into range which means at least a turn or 2 of snap shots. If you want to combat squad them, you're better off getting a missile launcher or plasma cannon for long range support.

Replace the multi meltas for combi flamers for more flamer goodness or more sternguard bodies.

2. I honestly don't think the LC's are going to see much use. First, they are on 6" moving dudes. 2. They are on one model in a 5 man squad. It'll give you a bit more bite in cc, yes but anything resembling a CC unit will kill that unit with no issue assuming they don't get shot up as they foot slog out of that pod. I'd much rather cut them and run more sternguards.

3. I'd drop the assault squad as well. You can still buy an empty pod to ensure your sternguard and dread drop turn 1. Outside of 2 flamer sources, the assault squad isn't bringing anything of any real note to the table. Use the pts to bump up the sternguard squad for more shooting. Or, if you have enough pts...

4. Get more vindicators. 2 vindicators can be hard to deal with at 1250. Personally I am not a fan of vehicles but I can respect the problems 2 vindis bring at 1250 both in the form of AV13 front and a s10 ap1 large blast.

Hope this helps

>>50060426
Does ITC allow you to join characters from different factions in reserve?

>>50060469

Yes, so do the unaltered main rules, as does GW's FAQ. It isn't even a point of contention.

>>50060272
I just realized that spamming Seekers would lead to 60 templates under ideal conditions just from them.
>no chance of winning
>shoot all your seekers
>then your 12 quad mortars
>3 hours later you opponent concedes
It's unstoppable.

>>50060486
Just realized this isn't the 30k general drrrrrr

>>50060486
And with IF you only scatter 1d6 as they are BS6.

>>50060483
>as does GW's FAQ. It isn't even a point of contention.
Come on now, that's not true and we both know, no matter how much we wish it wasn't.

>>50060528

I think you're thinking about starting the game in a battle brother's transport which is a big point of contention but ICs in allied units isn't mentioned.

>>50060443
>they FAQ'd it by making it so ORKS CAN'T EVEN START WITHIN THE TRANSPORT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
I don't remember that bit

>>50060561
Can't start in battle brother's transports.
Blitz brigade ally on as battle brothers to an Ork faction army.
A formation of transports that isn't allowed to transport anything due to GW's moronic writers.

>>50060448
It's a good point on the multi melta but I feel as though I want to justify Vulcans inclusion at such a low point amount.

I'd ideally run 10 Stern squad them down pop a tank with melta and flame the rest with the other squad

The assault squad is for flamers it's the cheapest way to get more on the table and I need as many as I can vs the orcs I play most often but point taken on the lightning claws. I get assaulted a lot so I like to make it harder for them to come out clean. A second vindicator I think wouldcertainly be a big threat but I'd want more bodies on the table it's easy for me to keep one safe but at these points it might be hard to keep 2 safe. I'm trying to maximize the benefits of the chapter tactics and vulkan

Thanks for the look also

>>50060592
>space marines have some really OP bullshit
>better nerf orks

>>50060626
>scatterbikes are fucking retarded
>better nerf DE

>>50060528

Are you dumb, there is a question that specifically clarifies you CAN join an allied unit in reserves.

In the 'Independent Characters' section:

>If am using a special detachment, such as the Nemesis Strike Force Detachment, and an Independent Character from a Battle Brother Factions (e.g. the Librarius Conclave), can they still benefit from the first turn deployment and come in together?

A: Yes

If you couldn't join BBs in reserves this whole question would be null and void. Don't be a fucking twat.

>>50060626
Hey, lets play a game of "I ask a question I want to be FAQ'd" and you respond how you think GW would respond.
Lets start with an easy one.
>On the mob rule table, Ork boyz hit themselves at S4 but are only S3, is this a typo??

>>50060669
Yes, it is supposed to be S5

>>50060718
>the Deathwing Redemption Force states that all models must come in turn 2 at the earliest, meaning a "pure" Deathwing army loses the game at the end of turn 1. Was this intentional?

>Flash Gitz are a Heavy Support choice but they are listed on the GW webstore as being an Elites choice. Is this false advertising?

>>50060747
Yes. Suck it up you baby bitch

>>50060240

What do Astra-Militarum have that Orks and Chaos don't then?

As much as I hear people bragging about guard vehicles, I never see any of them do much before they're wrecks on the board.

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>>50059690
>4th Generation gives birth to Cult Vehicles
I know that's not what they meant but i laugh every time.

>>50060718
>>50060669

Can allies start the game deployed in each others' transports?

>>50060747
No. The Deathwing is special in that it may come in on turn 2 with no negative penalties. All units also get a +1 to their armor save with a minimum of 1, ignoring AP.

>>50060771

Access to cheap scoring shooting bodies. Orks bodies aren't as cheap as you'd like and their shooting isn't as good as guard, CSM aren't cheap. The key element is cheap scoring bodies and a dash of 'run to objectives later in the game' units.

>>50060802

If only the answer wasn't 'no'...

>>50060747
Deathwing is always supported by Ravenwing, so of course it is.

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Can we talk about why Orks are shit? What went wrong?

>>50060802
No. Allies regardless of being battle-brothers or not may never join the same unit and can never be in the same vehicle. In the year 40,000, there are no alliances!

>>50060816

Aren't cultists better at that than Guard are with access to outflank and what not with the new Formations?

>>50058426
any ork players our there that can help? im trying to find all the rules and units, so far i know i need the ork codex, ghazkull suppliment, a white dwarf issue for looted wagon (why wasnt this rule in the ork dex?) and one of the current imperial armor books has a mek themed army i was told. if im missing some please let me know, thanks friends.

>>50060747
A: Yes! Seeing as you were trying to play terminators in the current edition we thought we may as well add an extra layer of masochism for you!

>>50060838

What new formations? Also - cultists are good but the rest of the book around them is lack lustre. Guard have access to better transports that allow them to late game objective push better than cultists.

I'm assuming we're talking Chaos Cultists not GSC cultists (who are great in a great book).

>>50060669
My opponent punched me in the dick when he saw my Riptide Wing, do I win by default?

>>50060607
At 1250, Vulkan is more beatstick than a force multiplier. Don't feel like you have to bend over backwards to get the most out of his special rules. You'll get there at higher pts values.

Against Orcs, you'd probably see more use out of the box with 2 vindicators. Orks have shit for answers against av13. Orks however, can actually deal with 5 assault marines that only move 6" even if they have 2 flamer templates.

If you need anything else, just holler. I'll be here for a while yet

>>50060822
The writers confessed they didn't like Orks, didn't understand how they were played and did not play any games with or against Orks so they just winged it in the hopes it wasn't shit.

And... Well...

>>50060662
would that work for the (sorry for specificity) Shadowstrike Kill team, where a squad of vanguard veterans can deep strike with no scatter if within 9'' of 2 scout squads and then charge -- I wanted to run them with my jumpy chaplain too, but don't know if he can deep strike with them and assault along, etc.

>>50060822
>What went wrong?
Absolute neglect. The Ork codex, while only 6th ed, is still stuck in a 4th edition mindset.

Orks have received very few new models.

Chaos marines have the same problem, but orks have it worse. Take some of the shitty Ork units and compare them to the shitty chaos marine units, and you will find that while both are dogshit, the orks make the marines look great by comparison.

>>50059824
The strength of a codex in a tournament setting is measured by its cheese. It doesn't matter that your IG list will shit on 90% of Tyranid lists; if it's outperformed by flyrant spam, then nids will rated be the stronger codex.

>>50060592
Uhm. Wat. The Blitz Brigade is from the Ork Faction. Formations and Detachments do not check the allies matrix. Just because it is from a supplement does not mean you check the alliance matrix UNLESS it is specifically from a different faction.

>>50060907
the urban camo on the leg always gets me

>>50060921

So the chaplain can join but he cannot assault because he lacks the requisite special rule to assault from deep strike.

>>50060938
Yes, and Tyranids are interesting in that regard because they're complete shit except for the Flyrant which is actually a decent unit.

But Orks? CSM? Dark Eldar?

>>50060868

>Chaos Cultists

Traitor's Hate gave them a formation that allows outflank among other things.

>>50060908
Hmm I'll have to consider I was looking at Thunder fire cannons too. What are some worthwhile kits to pick up on my way to 1850? I know the dread I have isn't the best but I have it so I use it. Still fairly new to the game only 3 months in

>>50060919
This is just memes, right?

They didn't actually admit that.

>>50060931
Orks look great next to chaos marines.
Cheap as fuck walkers with a million s10 attacks, cheap as fuck infantry with space marine strength and toughness, s10 klaw bosses, pretty deadly psychic powers and millions of krak rock it's for next to nothing.

It's when you play it, it falls apart.

>>50060993
The main issue that CSM have is that they are marines -1. They pay more for less, and every unique thing that gave them flavor was given to loyalists over time, only the loyalist versions are better in every way, the loyalists get toys the chaos marines don't etc.

So yeah. Run three bike squads with plasma guns. They will never be as good as grav spamming marine all bike armies, but they can be ok I guess?

>>50061010

Even with access to outflank why would you want to be closer to your opponent with a garbage unit like cultists? The reason guard are good is because they shoot at you the whole game with FRFSRF and then use transports to scoot cheap ObSec around at the last minute.

>>50060993

Dark Eldar on their own are very lack luster but the army can do pretty OK with allies. For example >>50060426. While this guy's list is using Eldar to provide his real punch it shows that you can play some mid tier/competitive in your region stuff with the army.

>>50061020

Of course not. No employee of any publicly traded company is ever going to come out and say 'I really hate this product of ours'.

It is the same kind of tripe as >>50060327. This is clearly a pile of shit but it makes for a good story.

>>50061020
They did, obviously they were more 'diplomatic' when they said it though.

>>50061049
>CSM are worse Marines with no access to any of what makes Marines broken

>>50061053
DE are shit unless you play them as Eldar with DE allies

Case in point. Guard should walk all over these armies.

>>50060662
What are you babbling about? GW first draft FAQ - https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13164280_1610526945934605_3736576549219065921_n.jpg?oh=c4aad31eecdef2242609501961cc83db&oe=589D32A2 - clearly states that the answer to "Nemesis Strike Force Detachment, and an Independent Character from a Battle Brother Factions (e.g. the Librarius Conclave), can they still benefit from the first turn deployment and come in together?" is no.

That said, IC's from other factions can join up units from other factions in reserves. They just do not benefit from formation special rules, etc.

>>50061092

Bruh you might wanna check your link and read the answer. It says 'YES'

>>50061010
chaos cultists are pitifully weak. Their offensive abilities for the points are kind of OK, but they just die if anything looks at them, even guardsmen.

They are only dangerous if you get all 35 on the charge, with none dying to overwatch, and somehow all 35 get into range to attack (yeah right).

Infiltrate would be better for cultists, so they can park themselves in cover until it is objective time.

>>50061047
months ago I ran a bunch of numbers to compare Chosen (a shit unit) to Nobz (a very shit unit). For the same points per model, Chosen do literally everything better than Nobz.

>>50061092
>>50061092

And more to the point - it means the Haemonculus can give the Wraiths deep strike with the webway portal.

>>50058438
There's no real need to spend time making a new document. The only things to note are that Badab Chapters that use a specific tactic from the book now use the newest one, and Raptors; who use half of the raven guard tactics, use the newer version of the RG tactics.. Since it's still explicitly stated that they share the first half of their tactics with RG.

>>50060953
Oh yeah, just like all the imperium's armies are one big faction on the ally matrix, I am right?

Fuck off, with this troll.

>>50061176
>Oh yeah, just like all the imperium's armies are one big faction on the ally matrix, I am right?

They will be in 8th.

>>50061176

I think his language is poor. What he meant to say is if you take a formation some codex SM and another formation from codex SM they don't check the allies matrix. Which is still true - basically he is saying BB is a formation of Codex: Orks thus taking it does not trigger an allies check when using Codex Orks.

>>50061019
Ironclads are actually pretty solid so one or two more won't go amiss. As for what to get, it depends on your style of play. Here's a couple of suggestions broken down by style of play.

Area control/denial
Thunderfire cannons, Predators, devastators, centurion devastators.

Aggressive/in your face
Assault marines (MSU with packs), Bikes, Deathwatch Kill Team

>>50061047

Yet their infantry and walkers are still overcosted.

>>50061206
But unless his detachment allows for the formation, the formation is part of a formation detachment seperate to the first detachment.

Thus, the ally matrix comes in to play.

Got 10 of the new custodes off ebay for 60 usd. I can't wait to add them to my grey knights. My opponents will throw even more of a fit at my sueness.

>>50059880
Why doest this picture exist?

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>>50061123
I did. Turns up GW fucked up the pic in my link. You have to check the FB caption for the right answer. I've screenshotted the relevant part.

>>50061314
those hemotrope reactors or whatever. new shit in the white dwarf that use the blood of martyrs mixed with prometheum

>>50061314
Because Haemotrope Reactors are an actual thing.

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>>50061257
So I tried looking up what might cause an allies check. The BRB was decidedly vague but in this screenshot of the core rule book it seems to imply that you only check the allies matrix if your detachments come from a different faction. Now if you have a clearer explanation of when a player checks the allies matrix, lemme know where it is.

>>50061318

Is there any way to effectively search old posts on FB, scrolling through the 8 trillion posts on the FB is a PITA.

>>50061330
>>50061347
A-what now?

Does anyone know if the re-release of IA4 adjusted the points cost of the Tyranid Lords of War?

>>50061216
I like having a little bit of support from the back lines and everybody else up close. I'm trying to keep the fluff so jump packs and bikes are kinda iffy but if I had to chose I'd go with the packs cause of the double flamers. Land Raiders and terminators are sexy as hell but don't benefit from my chapter tactics whatsoever.

What's the best way to run assault Marines in this kind of army?

>>50061421
No idea at all. Theres no rumors or anything about it.

Its real shitty that FW doesnt inform about these things more.

Hey /tg/ I'm getting ready to start an IG army and I was wondering what sorts of units would commonly make up a Planetary Defense Force?
I wanted to put together a sort of medium to smallish army that I could ally to my other imperial armies as a sort of 'last men left standing, calling for support' type of deal.

>>50060976
Gotcha. Think I'll just leave him with one of the scouts and send him to join the veterans when they arrive

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>>50061413

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>>50061413
>>50061444

>>50061176
They aren't, which is why you cannot have Skitarii sit in Blood Angel transports at the start of the game as they are two very different factions. But a Blood Angel CAD unit should be able to start in the Land Raider from the Lucifer Task force formation.

The way I see it - and correct me if I am wrong - is that the word Faction replaces the word Codex. So instead of referring to a unit from the Blood Angel codex, you refer to a unit from the Blood Angel faction. What this does is that it allows GW to 'update' the factions with small releases of models without having to actually update an entire book. For players, however, your army is now split over supplements, campaigns and WDs but essentially they are all from the same Codex so no allying between formations is required. Now, if my understanding is flawed, lemme know where and I'll correct it.

>>50061440
They're basically Guard, they have Russes and shit. They generally do not have as high-quality equipment or training but there's no real way to represent this on the table.

They do tend to use older or outdated equipment though like the Sabre gun platform and artillery platforms.

Oh look, it's another thread of 'orks and chaos players claiming their faction has the smallest dicks.'

>>50061392
I had to go to the Warhammer 40,000 page and manually search their photos. Surprisingly not that long. I'd post the link, but 4chan thinks it's spam and I don't know how to get past it

>>50061444
>>50061454
What the actual fuck? I'm so intruieugd right now what their fluff and rules will be.

>>50061432
For assault marines, 5 man strong, packs, flamers. Call it a day. Maybe get a combi flamer for the sarge. These guys drop in, set fire to something and possibly die in the process but it's okay. They are cheap as balls and will melt most infantry with ease. You can then have the rest of your army focus on taking down the big scary things

>>50061075
Cruddace never came out and admitted it. This is stuff that was put together via people in the community who were at one time close to people on the inside (Goodwin and Kelly).

Of course no one is ever going to publicly take credit for fucking over Nids, in fact they started crediting Codices "By the GW design team" with 6e Nids because they KNEW what a pile of shit it was and Cruddace can't fucking deal with criticism because he's an awful sperg. But if you were around during these releases talking to the people who had contact with the studio you'd know this is as real as it gets. The Tyranid community was once extremely tight-knit, full of oldfags who were around when Andy Chambers was first writing 3e and got their fan fluff included in the early codices and shoutouts in white dwarf and the main rulebook in 5e. A lot of these people left when Cruddace ruined Nids for a whole generation of players. It also happened to be one of the first symptoms of the practices of post-public corporate GW, it was around that same time that the website went from being an awesome place full of fluff and hobby tutorials and articles by the designers to nothing but a cold, empty, profit-driven webstore.

Things are finally changing again under the new management, and you can see that the guys in charge of Genestealer Cults are keenly aware of what Cruddace did to Tyranids and the frustrations it's caused, to put it mildly

They didn't put a two page artwork spread of a cult killing the shit out of Cruddace's personal OC space marine chapter in the Codex by coincidence.

>>50061480
sacrifice guardsmen to it for extra shooting phases for the plasma obliterator

>>50061444
>>50061454
I haven't seen anything so retarded since the Lord of Skulls.

>>50061497
Well, thats fine. I pretty much already sacrifice guardsmen to have extra turns anyway.

>>50061485
So like I have them minus the claw and the drop pod?

I like the versatility of the missile launcher but I'd gather it's not a good option for devastator squad, better to leave it to the tacs? I'd think melta but that leads me to:

Where do I go from here unit wise as far as making vulkan more useful as my warlord?

>>50061534

Why aren't you taking grav? If you're worried about something being bad, but you're purposefully not taking grav, then why do you care what you take? It's automatically suboptimal.

>>50061494

I don't feel like getting into a pissing match with you but you're wrong. I worked for Games Workshop as part of the manufacturing team in Memphis for 10 years and I've met multiple designers. Ultimately you are ascribing far more malice to the situation than exists.

>>50061467

Finally found it, I wanted to check to make sure there was no concern with ICs joining other units in reserves. Looks like the haemonculus helping out his Eldar buddies is still a go.

>>50061527

The Lord of Skulls has better lore and a far better reason for existing.

My only gripes with it are pricing and the fact it holds it's axe rather than having it mounted on the arm or having a giant claw or something.

>>50061555
I'm gonna believe the word of multiple guys who worked directly as playtesters and were close with one of the head GW writers over some guy who worked in the manufacturing department on another continent, sorry bro.

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What would you suggest for a footslogging Space Marine army? I've been rolling with tacticals with dreadnoughts but it's not working out for me anymore

>>50061534
> So like I have them minus the claw and the drop pod?
Yes.

>I like the versatility of the missile launcher but I'd gather it's not a good option for devastator squad, better to leave it to the tacs? I'd think melta but that leads me to: Where do I go from here unit wise as far as making vulkan more useful as my warlord?

Sternguard with combi melta are an amazing choice, especially with pods. You could also include a command squad, 5 meltas, an apothecary and some stormshields to taste. Put em in a pod. One final option are the vanilla dreads. Not the best, mind you, but a squad of those = 3 multimelta shots + 12 s10 ap2 attacks for a little under 300 pts. You know, that does sound pretty bad...

>>50061615

Sure - believe what you want. Cruddace was stupid, not mean.

>>50061603
Its model is fucking retarded in more ways than I care to list and its fluff, though definitely Khorne-themed, is also not good.

Is it a cliche, by this point, to point to the Kytan as an example of what it should have been from the start? I have no problem with that model.

Anyway I digress. These blood reactors are stupid. Their existence does not bode well for Sisters

>>50061637
What chapter and what's your points limits?

>>50061637
Rhinos.

>>50061615

That guy posts pretty often, IIRC he was actually head of manufacturing so he's a bit more than just 'some dude who worked in the factory'.

>>50061649
It's possible the maliciousness was blown out of proportion but the guy would have to be some kind of legendary level of stupid to write the garbage book that he did with numerous people directly telling him where and how and why it was not working.

The fluff being straight up disrespectful and irreverent of what came before sure as fuck doesn't help.

>>50061655

The Lord of Skulls is based two old Epic models that GW decided to combine into one.

Functionally it combines the old Lord of Battles and the Cauldron of Blood.

I can find little wrong with it over all as it epitomizes Khorne Daemon Engines, having much in common with the Blood God's other works such as the Tower of Skulls.

>>50061711
I'm so glad FW decided to do "Lord of Legs"-conversion kit to it.

>>50061658
Iron Hands and anywhere between 1000-2000
Iron Hands because it lets me stock up on techmarines and dreadnoughts. 6+ Feel No Pain is really on useful as an entertainment factor
>>50061666
Paper mache boxes die too fast

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>>50061548
Cause I'm playing salamanders not WAAC shit. I don't need to be that cunt at my store that runs skyhammer at 1k

>>50061640
Yeah sternguard have been my boys every game they murder and hold it down. I wish I could run Kantor cause I'd love to have them objective secured.

Normal dreads are pretty much me for money.

Thanks for the help I think I'm gonna pick up another box of sternies for my next purchase. Glad to be a part of this whole deal

Pic related

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>>50061655
There's worse daemon engines...

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>>50061755

>>50061637
In general, footslogging = bad. Rhinos can get your dudes where they need to go quick. That said...

Red Scorpions tactical squads can all get free 5+ FNP for some nice tankiness.

Iron Hands can get stupid. Attach an Ultramarines Librarius Conclave with Tigurius rolling on Biomancy for that power that gives you 4+ FNP. Have your other Librarians also roll on Biomancy and hope for a 4. Now all your dudes have 3+ FNP. Bikes are a good Toughness boost but then we aren't really footslogging. Also, the power that gives you 4+ FNP gives you Relentless. Who needs those bikes anyway?

And your command squads get 4+ FNP native from the narthecium.

Unfortunately for you, though, Marines don't have the numbers to really footslog. Ironically, that is the ONE thing that Chaos Space Marines do better--they can create lots of moderately tough targets with high model count sprinting at the enemy, forcing your opponent to make impossible choices about what to focus.

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>>50061773

>>50061707

Oh he was that stupid. I met him several times - shared a few drinks with him. He was notoriously bad at math (I recall there being an example of him being confronted with actual math at a Games Day and his response was basically 'well that's like your opinion'). At one point we were talking about the manufacturing capacity of our Memphis facility and I mentioned we were producing around 25 Rhino batches a day. He then asked me how many Rhinos we could produce in a month.

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>>50061784

>>50061748
This guy >>50061776 has good points. Now if you like dreadnoughts, the ironstone is a great relic to have. Are you maxing out on dreads? How many dreads are you packing at the moment?

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>>50061773

Can't find much wrong with the Subjugator beyond it having armor as weak as a Dreadnought and a Revenant Titan.

>>50061776

I want to do that with Sisters, actually. Unfortunately, they have T3, which makes them significantly more vulnerable.

>tfw chaos Marines are 1 point more expensive with +1S/T/Ld

At least we get more special weapons for MSU, I guess.

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>>50061896
The model just doesn't look very good to me.

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>>50061842
I've got 4 regulars, 1 venerable, 2 ironclad, 1 deredeo and 1 leviathan. I don't take all of them, depending on how much infantry I bring I use dreadnoughts to carry the heavy weapons or be the heavy weapons in the case of the assault ones. On average I have at least 2-3 dreads at 1000 points going up to 5 at 2000 points
I tend to favor close range/assault lists so I always bring at least one ironclad and the leviathan is always in my 2000 point lists. The deredeo is usually there in all my lists since it has my heaviest weapons. Last game I swapped it out for the predator executioner for decent results

>>50061711
>>50061755
>>50061784
>>50061809
>>50061919

Yes, Epic looks derpy. Always has done, always will do. Of course to some that's part of the charm, but...

The reason I singled out the LoS is because its updated model is still as ridiculously goofy. It's out of place.

>>50061793
How much corporate dick did this guy have to suck to get a job on the game design team, honestly?

Why is he still working for them?

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>>50061776
Not the same guy, but Raptors also get the bonus of having Lias Issodon as an option. Since he has the ability to give 31 dudes of your choice Infiltrate.. And by extension having Outflank. You can easily fit 60% of your army into said group, with a small detachment in your backfield to hold off the enemy until turn 2. With Outflank you can bypass your opponent's entire gunline, and the entirety of No-Man's land, while also getting at vehicle's juicy side armour.

This also helps a lot if you have Scouts, since Scouts can outflank by virtue of also having infiltrate by default. You should also consider giving your Scout Sergeants combi weapons such as either Combi-Grav or Combi-Melta, so they can destroy things as soon as they outflank.

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>>50061942
There's an updated picture of that Plague Tower around.

>>50058434

>Getting mad that overcosted T3 5+ infantry with short ranged, overpriced weapons get buffs
>Getting mad that psykers with little support and absolutely fucking ridiculous perils charts may be able to pick a power which sacrifices wounds for mobility and is hard to get off anyway

The only time Reckless Abandon is worth complaining about is when someone's doing it with Jetbikes

>>50061896
Eldar Titans have completely shitty armour because they make up for it with the complete bullshit that is Titan Holo-Fields. Basically they have a 4++ against EVERYTHING. INCLUDING THE 6 ON THE D-TABLE.

>>50061977
>implying
It was just a question brotato, no need to get those panties in a bunch.

It does make them pretty slippery to assault though

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>>50060272
>not running a 600pt Ogryn Deathstar

Fuck is it expensive, but fuck if it doesn't kill shit dead.
>mfw 10 Ogryns get 9 attacks EACH on the charge + HoW

I'll admit, though, they can be really long if you're spamming cultists or templates.

>>50060172

1/2

The team GW put together were a bunch of know-nothing interns who shat the new rules out over a weekend but didn't have the integrity to admit that they didn't know what the fuck they were doing until after they got paid.

They removed invulnerable saves, nerfed everything, removed all the fun flavorful rules, & still managed to make the shit more complicated than ever.

They made Cybork Body into a 6+ FNP that cannot be improved, making it useless on Mad Dok Grotsnik, then shat on players in the FAQ who broached the subject of their piss-poor hack-job.

All Orks got Stikkbombs, but the shitegobs didn't change Stikkbomb Chukkas, so they literally do nothing.

They took Fearless & Fleet away to make weaker custom rules that are way more complex, & that make Orks who fail LD tests literally kill themselves by hitting each other harder than any enemy in any 2nd round of combat.

>>50061984

>INCLUDING THE 6 ON THE D-TABLE.

Despite the fact that it says no saves can be taken against a 6, unless it says so in the unit's data slate.

>>50061977
To be fair, they can take from telepathy so if they can pick powers they can have army-wide invisibility since barons and the prince can be psykers too

>>50058434
There's an FAQ thread on dakka where someone who asked them a whole bunch of e-mail questions compiled all the answers.

No they can't use Reckless Abandon on Overwatch.

>>50060172
>>50062031

2/2

Every other faction got a big impressive centerpiece model, often a Super-heavy; Gorkanauts/Morkanauts were supposed to be SH since they fought Imperial Knights in the fiction, but were regular walkers with 5HP, so could be destroyed on a single penetrating hit.

Deff rollas can't hurt non-vehicles anymore unless they chose to make a Death or Glory attack & failed, & instead of D6 S10 hits, it's D3 S10 AP4. Against vehicles, it just counts armor as 2 higher.

A Morkanaut could take a Kustom Force Field (which also got nerfed w/o a price drop) & it would cost 280--just 15 points less than an Eldar Wraithknight, which was a Jump Gargantuan Creature that could take D-strength guns or swords at i5, & would be perfectly, unbeatably superior to it in every way.

Killa Kanz went up 5 points, lost 3 strength, & gained the only leadership check in the game for any vehicle.

Nobz couldn't take armor unless the entire mob took it.

Nobz paid more for a bike than goddamn Space Marine HQs.

Increased complexity, decreased efficacy.

The final blow for most Ork players came when they released a supplement with a new method of organizing the army--"formations"--and they were all shit. Then, they re-released it with no edits, solidifying the shit. Nearly none of them could be combined without going to Apocalypse-level points, & by then everyone else's shit is way better anyway.

Fuck Orks & fuck GW for wrecking them like that.

Why are Craftworlders and Space Marines so tsundere for eachother?

>>50062063
muh honor, muh ideals, muh struggles

>>50062050
but spaceodin fixed them amorite?

>>50062047
Link? I know nothing about Dakka and Google isn't turning up anything immediately apparent

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>>50062050

>since they fought Imperial Knights in the fiction

And get wrecked just as badly in the lore as they do on the table.

I recall a Knight being mentioned as having destroyed three Gorkanauts on his own.

Not that destroying Orkanauts is a hard task given it happens quite often, such as the Librarian who single handily fought an entire mob of Killa Kans, Deff Dreds, Orkanauts and Stompas on Armageddon.

>>50061497
You're joking right?

>>50062092
Someone posted it in one of the generals within the past few days, I don't have it on hand.

>>50062033
It's not REALLY a 4++ save, so much as the Titan Holo Fields allow you to negate any hit on a 4+. Which does indeed include D-weapon hits. And blasts... And orbital bombardments.. And really anything you would try to kill a titan with.

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>>50060854
Those are all of them, the IA book is written for 6th and doesn't really jive with the rest of the new rules. I'd skip it. Get the book and the softbound Ghazghkull book and you're good. The Looted Wagon takes one of your precious Heavy Support slots and isn't a transport choice for squads so you'll never take it in a serious game. Here's the rules for it anyhow.

>>50062106
yes. I dont even play the game, just paint minis

>>50060426

>Allied Detachment
>2 Troops slots

illegal broski

>>50062182
Allied Detachment is 1 troops mandatory + 1 optional.

>>50062182
It fits a standard CAD though

>>50062182
If you have 2 troops in an Allied Detachment, there is literally nothing stopping you from just saying it's a CAD... Which means you now have more options.

>>50062199

I thought you were wrong but I checked and it turns out I'm retarded. Fuck.

Either way this would have applied
>>50062200
>>50062219

>>50060189
This. I want to feel like my unknowable space monstrosities are actually a competent threat. The way things are going, they could well get a decent update, Cruddace-free, thank Christ.

>>50062118
It's cool, I found it anyway.
>Shadow Spectre Exarch still only has 1 wound
At least I can use Irillyth without trying so hard to shoehorn him in now.

>>50062263

Please post the link anon. If that's true the FW is even shittier at writing rules than GW.

Reckless Abandon on overwatch is literally one of the clearest rules I can think of based on reading the BRB definition of shooting attack and overwatch.

>>50062287
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/704325.page#8940097

>they ignore the question about Void Dreamers choosing their powers

>>50062129

But does it include a 6 that specifically says no saves can be taken against it?

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Anyone have ideas for kitbashing guard models? Something like in the photo. I was thinking of using the bodies of the genestealer hybrids with scion heads. Problem is how expensive that can be. I also could not reasonably do blobs, just vet units.

I just really really hate the plastic Cadian models.

I want to bring a flier with my Demi-Company at 1500pts. Im playing Dark Angels so I can either take the formation @ 500pts with three fliers or a Ravenwing Strikeforce with one or two fliers but I could try and squeeze some Black Knights in too and would have to take a biker HQ. The Ravenwing Strikeforce would all arrive turn two with Outflank.

Which would be the smarter choice?

Darktalon or Nephilim?

>>50062327
It saves against the 6 by stopping it from happening in the first place. The order goes like this:

Opponent hits the Revenant with a D-Weapon.
> Revenenant forces opponent to roll a dice to see if he actually hit the titan's afterimage. On a 4+, he actually hit the titan
> THEN roll to penetrate/D-Chart.
> After the result, you can take Cover/Invuln saves if necessary.

>>50062303

I see, thanks anon.

>tfw they ignored half of the questions
>tfw their answers are stupid for another solid 1/4 of them

Oh well, better than nothing.

>>50062347
kit bashes are always expensive sadly.
I think my 3 librarians cost around 60 bucks at the end of all the bits mongering

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Im a new player (have not even played my first game yet) and was hoping for some advice.

I got a start collecting space corgis box and a box of scouts as well ( I like how they looked in the space wolf codex). From what I understand scouts can either be based as fuck or suck heretic cock depending on how you use them?

I got the sniper set but have a shit ton of leftover weapons from my start collecting box. How should I build said scouts? Are snipers decent or do I need to build them for some other purpose?

>>50061942
Those are Space Marine era minis. Epic Armageddon has the same aesthetic as 3rd edition 40k. Except it was only made through Forgeworld, so it is beyond rare. Whereas Spacer Marine was a mainstream game sold in stores and is still all over Ebay.

Also the Lord of Skulls is rad.

>>50061440
Mostly infantry, probably no veterans. A lot of this would depend on the home world. Krieg or Cadia would certainly have some hardcore shit in their PDF. Your average hive world would have less stuff and dudes, a backwater agriworld less than that.

Typically, I'd say infantry platoons with conscript blobs, minimal vehicle/artillery support.

>>50062390
snipers are iffy, I use those and I haven't gotten good results with them.

>>50062390
Snipers have decent range for a cheap gun, and the odd rend is nice.

The wound on 4+ can be annoying as hell though.

>>50062404
If I still played 40k (which is to say if it were a coherent wargame instead of a clusterfuck where codexes are cycled into obsolesce in order to sell minis), I'd totally buy and field one as a centerpiece.

>>50062431
>>50062446

A guy at my local shop told me I should build them and list them to be tank killers that show up and use melta stuff to take out vehicles before they get killed, but he plays chaos and heretics cannot be trusted.

Thoughts?

>>50062081
He sure as fuck couldn't possibly have done a worse job. My own group, like his, eventually urged me to just use his instead of GW's. I just couldn't keep up with it & quit the army.

It speaks volumes that some random faggot on a Burmese rat-righting tactics forum could do a better job than the company itself.

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Hey /tg/,

I've been thinking about getting back into 40k. I haven't played since 3rd edition, and I know lots of things are different now. I was originally going to go back to 'nids, but this time around I don't want an army with a large model count.

>wants to play Nids
>wants a small model count

I know it sounds retarded. Before I commit to this, I wanted to ask if anyone's had success with Nids without using any gaunts? I'd like to have an army, with the only troop choices being Warriors, Rippers, and maybe Genestealers.

Is this possible? Or should I look at other armies?

In GW's Kill Team;

Can Tau use their Turrets? Do you just assign it to a single model at the start of the game?

>>50062390
>Im a new player
>I got a start collecting space corgis box

Your local shop failed you = (

>>50062456
bad idea. Singular suicide meta squads are a bad idea.

>>50062465
>>wants to play Nids
FOR WHAT PURPOSE

>>50062465
Flyrant spam. Literally how Nids are any good.

You could play Genestealer Cults, pretty much one of the strongest armies, but they're a horde army.

>>50062480
Thanks man. I like the painting and fluff more than anything and I imagine winning games is not gonna be a big deal to me, but I don't wanna get my shit pushed in every game because I made retarded choices in my army.

>>50062484
What can I say? I'm a sucker for space bugs.

Even though I've read they got completely fucked over in the last codex.

>>50062465
Nids now are just 5 flying hive tyrants with guns and a couple giant spore mines, and maybe another couple big creatures to taste.

So it's exactly what you're looking for.

>>50062466
I think that's how it would be, it's not the same as a bought drone would become a separate unit but rather it just sits on the field.
Man those things are silly.but they look so baller

>>50062497
from what I understand genestealer cults are where it's at now.

Just...shit...on...everything.

>>50062103
>buying into Imperial propaganda that features Orks jobbing against random Wolf Wolfson's Wolf-wolves

Gettaloadofthisgit.zagrune

But seriously, GW's plan was to produce a huge fucking badass stompy Walker model only to have it eat shit repeatedly in the fluff because "muh gud gays?" Shit-tier marketing right there.

>>50062493
If you wanted to win games you should have gone necron.

>>50062541
>Recommending Necrons to a painter

>>50062493
The best way to avoid getting your shit pushed in is to get your shit pushed in until you learn how to not get your shit pushed in

>>50062554
I mean, get a gallon of necron compound and a little bit of green and BAM entire army done.

Space wolves require far too much work to look decent.

>>50062554
Good painters are the only way necrons actually look interesting.

When people do them right all rusted and textured and ancient looking they're actually p cool.

Taking my first shot at a bike list. How's this?

1465/1500pts

Ravenwing Strike Force

Sammael Sableclaw (1) - 200pts
1 Sammael Sableclaw

Ravenwing Bike Squad (5) - 155pts
1 Ravenwing Sergeant: Bolt pistol
2 Ravenwing Bike: Bolt pistol
2 Ravenwing Bike: Grav-gun,Bolt pistol

Ravenwing Bike Squad (5) - 155pts
1 Ravenwing Sergeant: Bolt pistol
2 Ravenwing Bike: Bolt pistol
2 Ravenwing Bike: Grav-gun,Bolt pistol

Ravenwing Bike Squad (5) - 155pts
1 Ravenwing Sergeant: Bolt pistol
2 Ravenwing Bike: Bolt pistol
2 Ravenwing Bike: Grav-gun,Bolt pistol

Ravenwing Command Squad (6) - 260pts
5 Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus hammer,Plasma talon
1 Ravenwing Black Knight: Corvus hammer,Ravenwing Company Banner,Plasma talon

Ravenwing Attack Squadron

Ravenwing Attack Bike Squad (1) - 55pts
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Ravenwing Land Speeders (1) - 70pts
1 Land Speeder: Assault cannon,Heavy bolter

Ravenwing Attack Squadron

Ravenwing Attack Bike Squad (1) - 55pts
1 Ravenwing Attack Bike: Multi-melta

Ravenwing Land Speeders (1) - 70pts
1 Land Speeder: Assault cannon,Heavy bolter

Ravenwing Support Squadron

Ravenwing Darkshroud (1) - 80pts
1 Ravenwing Darkshroud: Heavy bolter

Ravenwing Land Speeders (3) - 210pts
3 Land Speeder: Assault cannon,Heavy bolter

>>50062571
Anon, Necrons are for players who loath painting and modeling and just like to stomp people in games.

>>50062140
thanks friend, guess im good to go to start building a list, much appriciated

>>50062573
>living fantastical metal
>rusted

Anon, that makes no sense.

>>50062590

You must really like painting bikes. I hate everything about them.

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>>50062573
beep boop fuck the police

>>50062590
Well there are certainly a lot of bikes

>>50062593
Well then someone better find a way to make it make sense because clean untarnished necrons are the shittiest looking models in the game.

>>50062509
Wait, you can take 5 HQ units?

>>50062630

Not him, but there's a Nid formation that lets you take 3 HQ units. That + a CAD = 5.

>>50062573
Painting good looking 'Rusty' necrons is super easy though once you get the hang of it. All there is to it is getting these, in this order.. It's not even that hard!

> Black Primer
> Leadbelcher
> Extremely heavy wash of Reikland Flesh-shade
> Highlight with Brass Scorpion
> Hit up flat surfaces with a light coating of Orange Rust powder, using water as your powder medium.

>>50060854
They released the data slate for Looted Wagons for free on facebook iirc.

>>50062652
>Orange Rust powder
>supporting FW

>>50062714
>not just using cheeto dust

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>>50062714
> Implying you'll ever get to paint on a professional level without learning how the fuck do powders
Bro, it's okay. They're not even that hard to use.. Just dip your brush in water, then dip it in the powder, then touch the model gently to apply powder.