What's the worst -punk and why is it steampunK?

I'm not really a fan of folk-punk desu.

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>>50054410

>>50054410
Objectively, cyberpunk.

>>50054410
Pic unrelated, obviously.

anything based solely on Tolkien

>>50054410
Because it's something that exists largely as an aesthetic (importantly one that is largely taken as a matter of 'slap more shit on it' as opposed to what looks practical within the limitations of the theme) with very little actual engagement of the ideas to bring it a sense of tangibility aside from playing dress-up.

>>50054410
Crustpunk is the worst. They just stink.

Oh, wait. Is this -punk or punk?
Metal > punk any day, though.

>>50054447
now I have to formulate Tolkienpunk

>>50054410
It ignores the actual possible 'punk' elements of the Victorian Era such as the inudstries driven by badly treated unskilled workers, power firmly in the hands of a few individuals and anarchist/communist/whatever thought beginning to rise to the surface in favour of wanking over scientific advancemenr.

>>50054495
Rising up against the superior, but slower breeding elves!

>>50054438
This, at this point cyberpunk is like playing a modern-day game with cyber-limbs.

It was a fantasy for the 1980's when it was still 'the distant future' with mega-corps, corporate espionage, and evil supervillians. Now it just feels like playing a modern-day-game with bureaucracy turned down and hillary-clinton-politicos turned up.

Anything with "punk" in the description is generally overdone and shitty, but yes, we've had this thread a dozen times already.

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>>50054532
Man...the world sure has changed, huh Anon.

ThisThreadpunk

We've had it so many times it's a genre now.

"But where are the punk elements anon?"

Us rising up against the ThisThread posters to end their shitposting.

>>50054518
Why?

>>50054598
why not? elves are nazis

>>50054598
Elves are and have always been horrible dicks. Plus they're keeping us from utilizing vast tracts of arable land because it's "their sacred forests" and leaving us to till stones and starve.

>>50054614
Ah, so Tolkienpunk is memepunk?

>>50054516
because nobody gives a shit, set a steampunk game in post-tsarist russia where you have your Bolsheviks slaughtering the native Siberian inhabitants with freakishly mutated soviet "new men" and you've actually got an original setting that isn't Mieville's personal spank bank

>>50054410
steampunk is the worst because one of the core features of punk is those on the bottom of society being in conflict with the wealthy and powerful. the protagonists cant be true underdogs in steampunk because to have ANY of the fancy bullshit tech that requires a ton of maintenance and replacement parts requires money. the kind of steampunk people write about/play/whatever usually has the main characters with all sorts of gadgets they'd have to be rich to afford.

TLDR best steampunk would be Irish rebel faction fighting against steampunk England.

>>50054822
Honourable mentions to Bioshock Infinite I guess.

Steampunk is just rich kids playing with toys. There's no punk in it. What the hell? I'm sure that at least one of the original stories had plenty of punk.What is that most of steampunk doesn't have any punk?

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Every punk that isn't dieselpunk is the worst punk desu senpai.

>>50054735
This sounds interesting.

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What about magic vs tech settings? Think Arcanum vidya game.
Or fantasy with gunpowder and magitech? Like Warmachine board game.

>>50054532
>megacorps didn't exist in the 1980s

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/TheDifferenceEngine

>>50054876
either that fabric is billowing to a ridiculous degree, or that lady's shoulders are fucked up

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>>50054905
Some said Rise of Legends?

>>50054981
Need to find that game again

>>50054996
Funny, I've been thinking of playing it again and see will campaign be less bugged this time.

>>50054410
Steampunk basically became a meme for scenepeople that generally has a poor grasp on history.

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>>50054532
>not playing OG cyberpunk with payphones and 80s fashion and japanese economic dominance and CYBERSPACE and true AI and Rastafarian space colonies

>>50054410
pop-punk manages to ruin both genres

>>50054950
Am I the only one who really dislikes The Difference Engine? It feels like the worst parts of Gibson and Sterling rolled together.

>>50055094
Oh, and soviet russia.

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Atompunk is best punk, prove me wrong
pro tip you can't

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>>50054484
This guy gets it

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>>50055161
>>50054876
My favorite punks. Cool vehicles included.

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>>50055161

Negatory. Rocket Punk is best.

>>50055112
The Difference Engine suffers a lot from later steampunk authors taking everything even kind of good from it. Nothing feels as fresh as it's supposed to.

Also the pov character for the first and third parts is incredibly boring, but the paleontologist's part was good fun..

>implying that world warpunk isn't the best punk

>>50055161
Retrofuturism is aesthetic as fuck.
>Nuclear families with their suburban utopias
>Big shiny cities with fancy yet impractical machinery
>The dark undertones of a dystopian civilization masking its corruption and misery behind a veil of futuristic gadgetry
>Those implications that behind all the wonders is a dark undercity whose citizens are slaves to the whims of the rich
>All those cutthroat geniuses and influential people vying for wealth and power by any means necessary
>The delicious underlying fear of both a menace outside the "perfect world" that wishes to destroy it and a monster of a catastrophe building up inside, waiting for the perfect moment to bring it all tumbling down

>>50054516
I feel like "steampunk isn't punk" is turning into some kind of thought-terminating cliche. Who cares that it's not "real punk?" It was never "real punk." The term was always aped from cyberpunk. Does Tolkien sugarcoating feudalism trigger you too?

>>50054947
More like
>Citizens United didn't exist in the 1980s

>>50054876
*tips fedora*

>>50055334
Fuck, throw in the paranoia of classic 50s/60s monster/alien films to get a really cool mood.

Just be prepared for players to turn it into a black comedy

>>50055334
Wow, without even realizing it, I just described Bioshock

>>50055334
>all that spoiler
I'll blame Nazis and Soviets, as usual.

>>50054905
Magic vs. Tech works for the early modern style games like warmahordes up to around the end of the age of sail.

Everything else is just a cluster fuck.

The reason for this is that the the early modern period was coming off the back of the renaissance where everything just sort of 'made sense' to everyone yet cool shit kept coming out and no one really knew what to do with it (look up Homo Volans and "The flying man"). Guns were by and large shit, transport was comparable to previous ages (Sail and Horse being the key ones), monarchy and social structure was still largely set. There was still very much left to discover / conquer / go in search of around in the world.

In earlier settings tech vs. Magic doesn't work because all tech is basically magic in these settings.

By mid 19th century "Science" was being born and up to late 20th century settings tech vs. magic doesn't work unless magic is either dying or hyper secretive to being largely nonfunctional in the day to day. When you hit the 20th Century it starts getting really hard to work with outside of "Nazi's mit Flamenballen" and "The hippy movement is led by a druid whose charmed everyone".

Though I suppose you could do 21st century Magic vs. Tech about a load of street magicians who are actually legit wizards or something.

>>50055371
Nazis working for the CIA or Nazis working for themselves?

>>50054410
Because there's nothing punk about it, for one thing. It's just an aesthetic.

The ACTUAL worst -punk is "dieselpunk", because we already had a word for that genre. It's called "pulp".

>>50055112
>I dislike the difference engine too

It was retarded.

However, the Chaos Engine game of my youth was inspired by it so It's not the worst thing ever.

>>50055393
Both kinds, I don't discriminate. Although I do like idea of Fourth Reich hidden on Antarctic or elsewhere, waiting for right moment to take away my fancy retro cars.

>>50055423
>Fourth Reich in the Arctic/Antarctic
Great taste

So we all know that steampunk is shit so how about steamgrunge or steamjazz?

>>50055393

Wasn't there much more trust on the government back then?

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>>50055407
Today probably people say dieselpunk for aesthetics and pulp for characters, like The Shadow.
>>50055437
Is there any RPG with such premise, atompunk and Nazis? I mean, probably not, but what the hell, maybe I'll be surprised.

>>50055532
Genius: the Transgression, sort of

>>50055614
Thanks. I've heard of it but didn't have chance to look into it.

>>50055094
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Modempunk

>radical computer hackers in a totalitarian '80s that never was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShusm5hGGw

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Thoughts on "cattlepunk?" Ideas, opinions, how to make it work? I had an idea for a campaign that was basically Red Dead Redemption meets Bioshock. The premise would be that technology took off at a ridiculous pace during the second industrial revolution and now a bunch of high-tech would-be tycoons are looking to "reform" the frontier in their own image- essentially replacing lawlessness with the corruption of ordered society, all in the name of progress, of course.

>>50056017
Deadlands in big town?

>>50054484
Punk died years before Green Day raped its corpse.

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>>50056017
Isn't that more or less just the plot of Rango

>>50056204
Are you saying you wouldn't play a Rango RPG?

>>50056187
Punk died when the record company made lineup changes in the Sex Pistols.

Metal survived that, and grunge, and rap, and it will survive everything else.
Just replace the -punk suffix with -metal, and you're good to go. Just do it harder and heavier, with less 'OH NOES WE CANT CHANGE THE ZEITGEIST' and more 'WE WILL BRING THEM DOWN OR DIE GLORIOUSLY TRYING'.
But then, I listen to power metal and folk metal.

>>50055377
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magik Obscura is the classic refutation. Magic fucks with basic physical laws nearby, so tech tends to foul up around strong mages. Tech is better in some ways, but magic has a lot of build up. That holds you to real machine guns and artillery. Then you just have to admit magic is generally a shit.

>>50054876
Dieselpunk best punk

Although I wish Teslapunk was a thing

>>50056017
Seems pretty sweet Anon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXFK82TGh7c for inspiration.

>>50054822
Then is there a word for, "I wanna play the rich guy with cool steam and clockwork gadgets but not steampunk because anything punk has to have communist undertones according to anon"?

>>50054484

Metal is edgy shit for fat dweebs who never leave home

>>50056502
lmao metal survived to because its incredibly nerdy, perpetually untrendy and mostly awful. Punk meanwhile changed the face of music, even if the music it influenced isn't actually punk

>>50055161
it isn't bikerpunk

>>50054410
Because steampunk is never ever done right. Idiots just think it's slapping gears on everything instead of making functional clockwork/steam-powered machines.

>>50055336
Feudalism is not necessarily bad

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What kind of -punk does Zenoclash fit into?

>>50056668
It depends, shit like nu metal, industrial, trash (RIP) and power metal are about as cancerous as the punk is but then again I mostly listen black, prog and stoner metal.

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Biopunk is great.

>>50056668
Confirmed for never having listened to metal OR punk.

Punk was, musically, awful. Three chords, shouting, and The Truth.
Metal involves all the chords, all the notes in between, and singing, screaming, growling, or shrieking depending on your sound.
And it's from the industrial dieselpunk aesthetic of the Black Country in the 60s and 70s. Dark and depressing and always raining, where the guitarist has to downtune his guitar to compensate for losing the ends of two fingers to a metal press at his day job, and the singer is having one last shot at a legitimate career before being the worst criminal ever.

>>50056757
Neither was the Industrial Revolution, if you do what Tolkien did and put it in a universe where none of the bad stuff that came with it ever happened. Hell, the Industrial Revolution helped the average person far more than feudalism did. It's hard for modern people to imagine just how much mass production lowered the cost of goods, and the less you spend on clothing the more you have to spend on other things like food (which because considerably cheaper as well). Even if conditions in the factories were deplorable by modern standards, people clearly preferred that life to what they were leaving in the country.

>>50056668
>>50057173
It's clear neither of you listen to the other's music, and your fan wank is nauseating. Please stop this.

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>>50054410
Obviously it's Daft Punk.

>>50056502
MY ADVENTUROUS BROTHER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzzIMdJJPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpxFUo7oxWM
>>50057173
For you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NSUFDHFgg
>>50056870
I honestly wouldn't think of power metal as cancerous because it either sounds like its about fighting in a war or being a hero. Then again I do agree with nu metal, most industrial, and parts of thrash.
Personally I listen to a lot of Folk, Power, and symphonic gothic metal (like pre-2006 nightwish) I have been throwing in some metalcore, classic rock, and the occasional death metal stint

>>50056558
what would that involve, being an autistic underweight virgin who fucks pigeons?

>>50056558
It's basically shoved into the same category as dieselpunk due to similar time period aesthetics.

>>50058634
Well it's not like you could call it "Edisonpunk", because that's about sue-ing everybody and cosplaying a Lion rather than Electricity themes.

>>50056606
None of the names that I remember /tg/ giving steampunk were meant in a non derogatory manner. Then again, /tg/ seems to be hot bed of steampunk anti-fans who feel the whole genre needs to be purged and "rich guy with cool steam and clockwork gadgets" need to be forever barred from being used as anything other than as the villain.

>>50054410
>What's the worst -punk
furrypunk

>>50055334
So Pre war Fallout?

>>50059222
There's no such thing as-
>"Muh oppression! Bawwww..."
>Assimilation of everything good into itself
>Trips of Truth
By the gods and the fire and lightning of heavy metal, I have seen the light.

>>50054822
The irish are all drunk, inbred terrorists and criminals tho

>>50054410
There's nothing more rage inducing than hearing some thick glasses dyed hair tumblrina describe a beautiful Victorian era antique as "steampunk."

Well, except maybe when they describe literally anything old with metal on it as "steampunk."

>>50059454
>young people are ignorant
truly shocking and rage-inducing

>>50059550
Get off my lawn!

>>50055279
>>50055161
There's nothing punkish about these settings fuck

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What genre of Punk would you consider Deadman Wonderland?

Also would you consider running a game in The Deadman Wonderland as Inmates?

>>50059612
There's a number of special \tg\ers who if they don't know the actual name for an artistic, architectural, or design school/style they just resort to calling it some form of -punk.

It's better to not argue with them and just shake your head and move on, otherwise they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

>>50059606
put on some metal and ill describe you as "steampunk"

>>50056606
Steam Couture

>>50055336
It's arguable that up until the 14th century, Feudalism was a lot better than industrialism. Heck, most of the supposedly bad things that we associate with the middle ages were made up by over imaginative Victorians trying to justify their own lifestyles as superior.

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>mfw I was shaving today and discovered I've got the perfect face and beard-type for some mutton chops.

I love Punk in all meanings of the word but I have never seen a good game with a anything-punk setting. Does it exist?

>>50059841
Cogfop is another good one, because half the time those kind of faggots idea of "steampunk" is a bunch of brass gears randomly glued to shit.

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What kind of punk is Simon Roy's Habitat?

>Utopian retro-sci-fi space colony.
>Except social order has completely broken down
>The Star Trek crew archetypes have become a caste system
>The Redshirts are raising the civilian population as livestock
>The Engineers are the only ones keeping the whole thing from depressurizing but won't work with anybody else and no longer have the technology required to repair it

>>50059903
I had Mutton Chops when I was 16-22. Don't do it.

It will never look as cool or unique as you think and there's a reason no one has them.

>>50054678
I'd like to plow elvish huge tracts of land..

>>50059968
>What kind of punk is
If you have to ask this question, the answer is always "none."

>>50054410
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA

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>>50059996
>When you come to plow elvish land and find it barren of fruit

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>>50060242
Come on, man, cheer up. At least they have monkey butlers who give excellent massages. And maybe a happy ending!

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>>50060418
>Monkey Handjobs

>>50060530
Princess Elodie is cute. CUTE!

>>50054410
If I'll be honest it's Cyberpunk. It's pretty much just 2016 simulator with 80's aesthetics.

Steampunk can at least be interesting to explore if you set it during a pre-WWI/WWI period, and you know not have the technology designed by retards.

>>50054966
dude anyone can tense up and raise their shoulder to the point that it's like that, especially if they're looking to the side.

>>50056606

>anticapitalist sentiment is the same thing as endorsing communism

wew lad

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>>50060554
I do love me some Long Live the Queen.

>>50059612
>>50059735

>http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/prelimnotes.php#rocketpunk

>>50061150
This isn't punk at all

fuck you get out of my sight and site

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>>50056855
What the fuck?
Is it good?

>>50056558
Amusingly enough, the Cult of Kek recently extended its power over an FBI official and arranged the release of some of the agency's Tesla files.

https://vault.fbi.gov/nikola-tesla

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>>50054410
>Steampunk

It was cool if it's done right

actually there was no such thing as "worse" -punk, only worse implication of it

>>50056017

So Wild Wild West: The RPG?

>>50054996
>>50055033
>>50054981
I statted all the Rise of Legends shit for Savage Worlds. Gotta find that shit soon.

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Literally nothing wrong with Steampunk if you take the Victorian gear shit out of it. So basically, not steam punk.

The airships, cannons, and robots are cool though. Especially if you mix it up with fantasy. Have a campaign going where one player is playing a dinosaur lord, a few sessions back they fought to take over a 400 foot long airship with the help of two spinosaurs and their gang of bandits. Had an awesome fight between wizards and dinosaurs and musketmen and gatling guns that lasted over two sessions, not because combat was slow (we are using savage worlds) but because of how massive the battle was, the ship was crewed by about 400 men. One of them poisoned the ship's food disguised as a chef then rolled a burning barrel of gunpowder into the mess hall to kill them while they were unconscious.

Not that steampunk isn't usually shit, just that it doesnt have to be.

>>50061561
>if it's done right

You mean the way Thief did it, then Dishonored then ripped off wholesale?

Biopunk best punk. Abandoning your humanity for power is something that no other punk by cyber can do moderately well and in biopunk it's more horrifying.

>>50056606
communisms got nothing to do with it. you know poor people can culturally ad politically rebel without becoming the worst ideology to ever gain major traction in the world right?

not every counter culture exterminates 30 million with the stroke of a pen ffs.

im just saying, theres no such thing as legitimate corporate punk music. no such thing as official government friendly punk. cyberpunk provides a nice example of what im talking about; almost every cyberpunk story is about marginalized fucking freaks and criminals working with whatever they can steal in a hellish nightmare of uncontrolled corporate autocracy.

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>>50056187
>>50056502
>>50057173
I don't really like punk musically, but I appreciate the story of its rise and fall. The music is simple, but the genre is nuanced and complex, full of conviction even in the midst of numerous contradictions and ironies.

Punk came to be in the mid-seventies in part as a response to progressive rock, which was seen as a pretentious, excessive, and self-indulgent corruption of what rock and roll was meant to be. Punk was a return to the roots of rock as a visceral, rebellious rallying cry for working-class youth. Where progressive rock was complex and indirect, it was straight and to-the-point. Where progressive rock was ponderously philosophical, it was vocally political. Where progressive rock sought greater levels of artistic credibility, punk sought raw, unrefined authenticity.

This attracted two different sorts of people: the tough, bitter badasses and the melodramatic, self-expressive romantics. As you might imagine, these two types of people don't get along very well! The result is that punk is one of the most self-loathing genres of music in existence. It's got more infighting in it than almost any other music scene in existence.

The other irony is the rise of pop-punk. It is punk turned into the very thing punk hates: the establishment. If you think about this, it's basically the hipster paradox: rebellion for the sake of rebellion is doomed to either fail and be crushed or to overthrow and become the establishment it originally rebelled against.

Meanwhile, progressive rock was pushed underground and became far more fringe and non-mainstream than punk ever was... but it didn't care, because progressive rock was always just about the music. As long as the music was good, the prog rockers were happy. But that's another story.

>>50062450
>It is punk turned into the very thing punk hates: the establishment.

The Sex Pistols were literally a manufactured boyband.

>>50062469
The punks hadn't caught on to the fact that punk was becoming the establishment yet. The Sex Pistols were the Lana Del Rey of their day.

so why do you hate "aesthetics"-punk?

not everybody wants to put victorian politicking into their adventures, they just want something cool-looking like airships

is there some kind of "golden mean" when it comes to balancing the "steam" and the "punk", or they do have to stop using outlandish equipment due to some fear that it will become steampunk in name only?

>>50062450

I don't want to be That Guy who drags /pol/ in, but I have to ask since it's been something I'd been wondering for the past few years. Is that why modern punk is so seemingly filled with SJW types?

Polite sage since I really don't want to derail this thread with political shitflinging.

>>50062469
All "counter-culture" is manufactured and managed by companies desiring to make money off "rebels."

Welcome to reality.

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>>50062535
Punk was always highly political, and being anti-establishment it was usually left-leaning (except for skinheads, but skinheads are weird edge cases). Social justice people didn't infiltrate punk; they were basically there all along, and that nauseatingly preachy and horseshoe-extremist type of social justice activism is just some of those same social justice people, but now influenced by twenty-teens horseshoe extremism.

The aforementioned melodramatic romantics are particularly susceptible to the influence of the identity-conscious extreme left, and the aforementioned angry badasses are particularly resistant to it.

>>50055094
Cyberpunk is mostly garbage (even more so than steampunk), but the 80s stuff is almost always better than the modern crap that poorly apes and "subverts" it.

>>50061910
Thief is garbage though.

Dishonoured is actually good.

>>50057304
They preferred because that's where the money was going, and they had no real choice in the matter. Cities of the Industrial Revolution were usually utter shitholes.

While our era is overall better than the Middle Ages, the early modern period SUCKED for almost everyone. You can still see the growing disparity in wealth, crushing labor demands, and dehumanization of the masses today, which is why Tolkien romanticized the medieval era. Hell, maybe he had a point (at times); people of that age had more free time, arguably stronger familial bonds and social safety nets (when they had the resources, obviously), and though the ruling class were not saints, they did have to interact and be "connected" with their subjects more than the cloistered, gated community elites we have today.

Sure, we've got it fairly good nowadays; that doesn't change the fact that modern society was built on a mountain of skulls.

>>50056870
>Not liking power metal

>>50059903
Get it. Join us.
>>50059969
Mutton chops look cool.

>>50062746
>Dishonored
>good
Yeah, babby's first Lovecraft mixed with generic Victoriana and terrible Bethesda writing owns, dude.

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>>50062746
Here's a (You)

>>50062858
>Mutton chops look cool.
No, they seriously don't. Not in any way, shape, or form. And I can guarantee you're the only one around you who thinks so and everyone laughs at how ridiculous you look behind your back.

>>50062922
I think mutton chops look cool, and I have nobody I need to impress with my hairstyle.
I won't be fired for my hair.

>>50062961
>and I have nobody I need to impress with my hairstyle.
Probably because you think mutton chops look cool.

Is Eberron magicpunk?

>>50062961
You may not get fired, but you also certainly won't get laid.

>>50062987
>>50063047
So?

>>50063173
So it's probably for the better someone like you doesn't reproduce. So keep up them chops, for the good of humanity.

>>50063173
>So?

No reason, anon. No reason at all.

>>50061398
The first one is really fun, but weird as fuck. I didn't beat the second one because they changed light/heavy attacks from being left and right click to having each hand tied to it's corresponding mouse button, and you had to hold the button longer for heavy attack, and it made pulling off combos clunky and unfun.

>>50062863
>he thinks Bethesda wrote it
>He thinks any sort of otherworldly magic that is sea-related is Lovecraft

You're a living meme. Both IPs are good. No need to be a fuckface about it.

>>50062988
No, Eberron is just good without being punk.

>>50054410
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf4Avda9JCo

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>worst -punk

I was going to say screamo or metalcore, but eh...

>>50056606
You call it steampunk, because that's what it's always been.

>>50062663
>twenty-teens
Christ that's a poor name for the decade. Not saying it doesn't fit, it's just lame.

I guess it's better than the "noughties"

>>50054484
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LzXB7uXq3Fc
Crust is goat

>>50062450
This is why progressive rock is objetively the best rock.
Saved this for future reference.

>>50054410
All the punks are shit because they are focused on an aesthetic as opposed to ideas. Steam punk isn't as much about Victorian political upheavals and the transition from old to new technology and the conflicts that arise as a result, its about brass or bronze stuff, gears, pipes, and visible electricity.

>>50055334
>>50055369
>>50055370
>Slick-haired greaser punks in their nuclear powered, souped up supercars fighting against the man who wants to put down their tomfoolery in the name of science
>Supergeniuses creating horrors to kill the other supergeniuses who are creating horrors to kill them
>The "Martian Menace" keeping society at bay while megacorps set up shop on the planet
>Witch hunts that turn friends and families against each other
>Otherworldly horrors that have escaped to our world due to researcher's desire for knowledge
>Anti-capitalist hippies spreading drugs and illegal ideas of socialism
>Neighborhood watches ruling entire neighborhoods with an iron fist

>>50067483

...So, Fallout pre-war? The more you think about it, the cooler it is because FO has enough substance to it that you don't even need the apocalypse to occur in order to make it an interesting setting.

>>50054410
>steampunk
>pic is clearly cogfop
Do you even workers unions?

>>50067613
Damn it, stop talking about Unions, the gunmen have this week off. I'm almost paying them as much as I pay you lot, if I have to bring them in I'll have to pay them double their typical fee!

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>>50067307
The irony is that progressive rock was criticized by the punk scene for being unauthentic and more about the snooty quest for recognition than it was about the music itself. But, as the fact that prog rockers kept on playing and didn't miss a beat when they fell from their mainstream throne demonstrated, recognition was the last thing on progressive rocker's minds. It really WAS about the music. Meanwhile, punk was actually more about the subculture and the social context of that subculture than it was about the music.

Sauces for those interested:

http://www.jimdero.com/OtherWritings/Other%20Prog.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-08-26/entertainment/ca-6085_1_black-moon

>>50054905
>Magic vs Tech
>not Magic AND Tech

As long as it doesn't turn into some moralistic soapbox or an HFY wankfest, I'd love to see a setting where the two meet, and start mixing. Wizards figuring out the alchemical properties of plastics, courts wrangling with how valid the testimony of the undead is, Geographers plotting out Ley Lines on maps, robots being created by taking a shortcut and binding wild spirits to machines, Dwarves looking into asteroid mining.

That sort of thing.

>>50059391
> Irish

Pikeypunk. Everything's built from stolen stuff, scrap metal, and most solutions are to rip someone off, tow it with a van, or dump piles of junk somewhere inconvenient.
Everyone just shits in the streets, and grazes horses wherever.

>>50062535
No, that's because punk was always about left-wing social activism.

>>50054410
Any -punk except cyberpunk is garbage.

Steampunk is awful, and every other -punk (dieselpunk, atompunk, whatever) is basically just steampunk except not steampunk. They're all awful settings based more on aesthetics and "wouldn't it be cool if" logic than anything else. At least Cyberpunk actually means (or meant, anyway) something and is more than just a lazy, shallow form of alt-history hipsterism.

>>50062450
>Meanwhile, progressive rock was pushed underground and became far more fringe and non-mainstream than punk ever was... but it didn't care, because progressive rock was always just about the music. As long as the music was good, the prog rockers were happy. But that's another story.
Is this why I still like prog-rock and find punk obnoxious?

>>50069182
Punk was always more about the message than the music, and the message hasn't aged all that well.

>>50054718
The first time I visited this board there was a thread up where this guy was unironically pitching a memepunk setting

>>50056694
/thread

>>50069357
Add in the fact that message usually is/was whatever was whatever was popular in the mainstream counterculture and you get a product that ages like spoiled milk.

>>50062531
It's vapid and it lacks depth.

The only explanation for a lot of things is 'because it fits the aesthetic' or 'it's cool' instead of things being there because of a natural progression towards that specific point.

>>50069428
I dunno anon, you never get this persnickety over any other type of aesthetic, even if it makes just as little sense.

>>50069449
Steampunk is the most popular and regular offender, that's why. It's usually the first thing when you think of '-punk' settings, and it was the first big one.

>>50054410
>What's the worst -punk and why is it steampunK?
What's wrong with steampunk? I like steampunk (it's not my favorite, but i still like it). fuck you!

The worst punk are the redundant ones, you know what I mean surely? no? It's when it's a -punk genre gets created despite that genre already existing under a different name.

>>50069610
>It's when it's a -punk genre gets created despite that genre already existing under a different name.

So like Steampunk then? Which was covered by Alternative History and Victorian Scifi.

I do get where you are coming from though. While I personally might not approve of Steampunk as a name that so many older things were pushed under at least it had more of a link to Cyberpunk's roots than the dozens of -punks that sprung up after Steampunk got popular and some people decided -punk sounded cool.

>>50069597
Things like D&D have just as vapid "it fits the aesthetic" and "its cool" parts. Most of the settings are made that way with little regard to actual sense-make.

But you don't see people complaining about that with D&D. They complain about other parts.

>>50069693
>But you don't see people complaining about that with D&D.
People will complain about any and every part of D&D, look harder.

The straight fact about why people don't like steampunk:
Anti-steampunkists declare any good steampunk a different genre.
I've had someone go on for hours that it's not steampunk if it has magic in it, in regards to shit like arcanum and that steampunk RTS. Despite every online definition disagreeing with him.

>>50069661
>than the dozens of -punks that sprung up after Steampunk got popular and some people decided -punk sounded cool.
like stonepunk?
seriously, wouldn't this just be covered under ancient fantasy? or mythological?

>>50069449
Steampunk has the issue of nobody having ideas of "X of the FUTURE". Shit like Dieselpunk, Biopunk, and Cyberpunk have futuristic concepts to go off of, Victorian-era tech didn't, resulting in the "put some gears on it" mindset Steampunk is so infamous for.

>>50069833
I thought the deal people were angry about is specifically that it was X of the future and not something dealing with class issues.

>>50069851
I'm talking about the aesthetics of -punk, not the social commentary.
You still need a social conflict to get the -punk. That's why most people call it Cogfop, as there's just rich people doing rich people things.

>>50054410
>>50054458
>>50056694
>>50069048
I hosted a game called "Ironclad" for my group's "world building night" that was more or less just 16th century pike-and-shot warfare with the addition of steam power, which was mostly used for practical purposes like rail transit, powering ships, and industrialized production. There wasn't any crazy nonsensical steam tech and it had jack shit to do with the Victorian era so I don't know if it qualified as "steampunk" but it worked pretty well and I'd like to come back to it

>>50069928
But anon almost nobody calls it cogfop.
That's the entire reason people who call it cogfop are angry.

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Steampunk is pretty great. It just has a hate following because some people decided to use the aesthetic as a fashion.

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>mfw anons in this thread don't know what the "punk" part implies

>>50070017
Honestly, people making such a huge issue over the punk part when it has obviously been picked up by society as an aesthetic descriptor seems like just trying to start a fight over nothing.

Who's the worst faggot and why is it OP?

>>50070044
Because op is a faggot. It's an age old tradition!

>>50070025
The part of "society" that's done that are teens who think the steampunk aesthetic looks cool and wants stuff similar to that. It has no basis in what cyberpunk, steampunk and other -punks are about.

>>50070067
Nah, pretty much everyone talking about it has done that.

>>50070075
>>50070067
Yeah, -punk to describe social conflict is actually pretty fucking rare nowadays across all audiences.

>>50070075
>>50070088
Then the name should be changed. There's no reason to have the -punk suffix anymore.

>>50070197
>werewolves shouldn't be called werewolves because "were" doesn't mean "man" anymore

>>50070329
What does the term "punk" mean to you? Does it mean "aesthetic"?

>>50070429
It means social conflict, especially class warfare. Of course, the word "steampunk" isn't usually used that way anymore, but it's awfully prescriptive to say that a discrete word should not be used in any sense that doesn't contain the meaning of all of its morphemes. If that were the case, then the phrase "oral description" would be self-contradictory, because the literal morphological meaning of "to describe" is "to write about" -- de (from, down, about) + scribe (write)

>>50070910
The difference is that the term "punk" for use genres have only been in around for at most 40 years, and not everyone agrees that it should be about aesthetic. Really this idea has only showed up in the last 10 years and I'm pretty sure that the people using it like that know anything about the genre beyond that they think it looks cool. Because of this, I don't think it's correct to say that the "public" definition of the term is the right one. There needs to be at least a couple of defining pieces of art to complete the change, and that doesn't exist (unless you think shitty cosplay qualifies).

>>50061614
Not that anon but I fucking love that piece of shit movie (i have no opinion towards the show)

Once again no anon mentions Metropolis as best punk.

>>50054410
Steampunk is the worst punk because of three reasons:

1. 'punk' is an aesthetic, not a setting. Many people forget this and think that 'steampunk' makes for a good setting. When someone tells me their setting is "steampunk" I know more or less what to expect in technology level and aesthetic, but I know nothing about the true setting itself. Where does it take place, a real country or a fictional one? What races inhabit it? What is the politics like? What is the class divide/relations like? What are the biggest threats to the peace/stability? Who is worth knowing? Often those questions aren't answered at all, which leads to the next problem.

2. The true setting is always the fucking same. It's always the 1880s, always England, always upper class. This leads to unimaginative cogfop. "Hurr durr we are le delightfully English gentlemen with le top hats except we have le cogs". England is fine, but do something fucking interesting with it. Maybe something like the Irish uprisings of the 1830s with English cogfop gentlemen removing filthy Irish peasants using their steam artillery. Or maybe we take our eyes off England for FIVE FUCKING SECONDS and remember the rest of the world exists. Maybe Meiji Restoration Japan, or the Germans building up steam wunderwaffen in preparation for a global war the likes of which the world has never seen before?

3. The biggest problem with a lot of steampunk aesthetic is that it violates the number one unwritten rule of steampunk: if it already existed at the time, it doesn't need steampunk. Top hats don't need fucking cogs, you don't need fucking steam on a musket (unless it's a totally neccessary super-musket like in Kabaneri of the Iron Fortress) and you don't need fucking cogs and steam on a horse and carriage. Use steampunk shit to justify things that did NOT exist. The best example of this "steampunk" is the French "en l'an 2000" series, where the French imagined things they DID NOT HAVE in 1900.

>>50071293
So the problem is the shitty people you play with, anon, not the aesthetic itself.

>>50071403
Tbf lets glue cogs onto fucking everything is pretty high up there when it comes to causes of eye cancer.

>>50071293
>Or maybe we take our eyes off England for FIVE FUCKING SECONDS and

England was where the Industrial Revolution happened, anon. Up North, in the black country, financed by the cogfops in their top hats and waistcoats, but worked on by 'Arry and his apprentice; the black-handed men with broad accents, flat caps, and the ability to tell what a steam engine's doing just by listening to it with half an ear while talking about the football results with the lads.

The social conflict comes when some bright spark from Siberia comes and talks to 'arry about how you have all the money and thus the power, and yet HE'S the one who works his fingers to the bone and has a head full of knowledge, and wouldn't it be better without you involved, and your money in the hands of the workers?
Then you have unions and a revolution brewing.

The main problem is that steampunk is espoused by middle-class millennials who have never worked a day of real work in their lives, nor ever had to actually run anything. All they've done is arts and crafts; decorating their nerf gun with brass paint and a few cogs and maybe replacing a spring, and buying a waistcoat off ebay and customising it with gears.
And, of course, they didn't get taught history properly. 80% of them only ever got taught american history anyway, and the other 20% were under a shitty socialist education system and didn't learn a damn thing.

>>50071403
No anon, I don't even play steampunk because I have an allergy to shit. I'm just analyzing what it is that makes most people hate an aesthetic that actually has a lot of creative potential.

When some crack whore does porn, nobody cares. When some Ivy League graduate from old money who's about to inherit a multi-billion multinational corporation does porn everyone loses their minds.

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>>50071293
Like LANDSHIPS! POLISH LANDSHIPS FILLED WITH JETPACK HUSSARS! AND A VERY LITERAL DEFINITION OF "WITH FIRE AND SWORD"

Reminder that Dystopian Wars is the best steampunk setting.

>>50071446
>When some Ivy League graduate from old money who's about to inherit a multi-billion multinational corporation does porn everyone loses their minds.

That would make him/her more useful to the society than 90% of her kind.

>>50054410
Sorry but nothings worse than cm-punk

>>50071431
>England was where the Industrial Revolution happened, anon
Where it started, sure, but you'll have a hard time arguing where it (all of it) "happened". Especially when so many advancements came from Germany, a country I mentioned earlier. But then again, that actually requires reading up on Germany and reading is hard so I'd rather put on a shitty accent and tape cogs to my bowler.

>The social conflict comes when some bright spark from Siberia comes and talks to 'arry about how you have all the money and thus the power, and yet HE'S the one who works his fingers to the bone and has a head full of knowledge, and wouldn't it be better without you involved, and your money in the hands of the workers? Then you have unions and a revolution brewing.
Look: something interesting. ie. things steampunk could do, but doesn't. Hell, even if you limit yourself to England the defining author of the era was Dickens, ie. mister "muh social inequality". Why not do something with that? Oh yeah, because that requires actually reading Dickens, or at the very least skimming through his wikipedia page. And ain't nobody got time for that when we still have 20 cogless top hats.

My entire point can pretty much be summed up as "READ NIGGA". Steampunk is shit because it only scratches the surface when there's so many interesting things you can explore.

>>50071469
>That would make him/her more useful to the society than 90% of her kind.
Alright anon. I want you to listen to me. I want you to listen very carefully. Are you listening?
1880s British upper class steam-prostitutes

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>>50071293
>LANDSHIPS!
>POLISH LANDSHIPS FILLED WITH JETPACK HUSSARS!
>AND A VERY LITERAL DEFINITION OF "WITH FIRE AND SWORD"

Reminder that Dystopian Wars is the best steampunk setting.

>>50071506
Dickens was a propagandist. The reality of live in the industrial revolution was far different from his depictions, and the BBC adaptations are part of their 'work bad socialism good' agenda.

I could do steampunk properly, but I despise the aesthetic and have trouble controlling my urge to educate people through ranting loudly, or through blows to the head. Plus, I work for a damn living, and have no desire for social conflict outside of work as well.

I prefer cyberpunk for the guns and computery stuff, and fantasy for the idyllic landscapes and being able to use magic to improve medieval stuff.
The latter is limited; my group wants to kill stuff and roleplay with each other rather than have worldbuilding exposited at them.
I should just write a fucking novel or something.

>>50071574
>Dickens was a propagandist.
You know what they say: never let facts get in the way of a good story. This goes doubly if you're a DM.

>I prefer cyberpunk for the guns and computery stuff, and fantasy for the idyllic landscapes and being able to use magic to improve medieval stuff.
That makes two of us. I think there's a reason why fantasy almost always means medieval fantasy. It's just a very romantic period in history.

>I should just write a fucking novel or something.
DO IT.
JUST DO IT.
DON'T LET YOUR DREAMS BE DREAMS.

>>50071642
I don't even want to write a novel. I just want to stick to comfy short fiction and distribute it among people I know/like/think will appreciate it.

>>50067483
Now i want to find someone to play Genius - the Transgression.

>>50067377
this is the single most convincing argument I've seen against the various -punks. You're right, I've yet to see a -punk setting that fully grapples with the ideas presented by chaoticly advancing technology and unseated ideological systems, and instead they do some foreplay and skirting around and flirting, then deflect off into the aesthetics.

Look into the history of modern art, at the Futurists, The Post-impressionists and the Impressionists. It's a fantastic look into how people were reacting and interacting with he upheaval of the late 1800's.

>>50066901
Twenteens?

>>50072245
New Tens.

Easily cyberpunk.

I don't give a shot how finely crafted your setting is, or how deep you thought into the philosophical implications if whatever but I know one thing and one thing only:
Any setting that makes sidecuts common is complete ass, plain and simple.

>>50056017
This sounds rad as fuck. Maybe throw in some supernatural stuff as well - native shamans, voodoo necromancers, that kind of shit.

We may have an actual cool setting idea here on our hands.

Steampunk is best served with a side of dystopia and lovecraftian incursion.
Every instance I've seen of that is real enjoyable

>>50059685
It's Shittastepunk

>>50062703
Cyberpunk made sense in the Eighties as a literary reaction to something that was going on. By the end of the decade, even its main proponents had moved on. In RPGs it was never good.

>>50071508
Reminder that putting an artificial volcano on a Belgorod chassis doesn't make the Rarog good.

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>>50055094
>Not just playing a 40k rpg

>>50054905
>Or fantasy with gunpowder and magitech?
>>50068674

I'm in.

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>>50072914
Polish mediums might be good, but they don't convey "city block sized mass of fuck you" quite as well in a single picture.

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>>50072914
Also the number of people that know that the Rarog is shit must be in single digits.
>Dystopian Wars
>Land
>Minor Nation
>on /tg/, too/

>>50057304
>Even if conditions in the factories were deplorable by modern standards, people clearly preferred that life to what they were leaving in the country.

Wasn't it that in England people had no other choice than going to city because landowners kicked them out to make more place for sheep?

>>50059956
>those kind of faggots idea of "steampunk" is a bunch of brass gears randomly glued to shit
Call it steamjunk

>>50073126
Scotland the Highland Clearances are damn notorious in Britain

>>50073039
That's because the picture make it hard to understand the scale, partly because there's no buildings. The light tanks there are roughly the size of a WW1 tank, about 12m long, 6m wide and 3m tall. The medium tanks are the size of a city block. The Rarog is somewhere around fuckhueg and the mobile airfield is just fucking massive.

I would argue that Dystopian Wars has wandered away from Steampunk though. Too much Sturginium-powered bullshit and too much focus on making the war sound awesome to truly capture how fucking horrible it is. At some point, the gigantic dreadnought robots with cannons the size of a battleship make you forget that there's fifty very unhappy dudes whose job is reloading said cannon, and that they are sweating and dying for no other reason than the British Queen and the Prussian Emperor not liking each others.

>>50073071
I've felt like the only PLC Armoured player in existence for two years now, so it's nothing new.

>>50068674
>Dwarves looking into asteroid mining
FUND IT

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>>50073289
Well, that makes two of us. Feels like I'll never get to make another glorious lancer charge again.

As for the dreadnought robots... I play CoA as my main force. I own every model for them, multiples of many... except for the Coeus. Too big, too stupid. I bought in on the basis of Vernian sci-fi and landships, with Sturginium as a justification for the cool stuff... not for bloody giant animu mecha. Even the Windsor, the best looking dreadbot, is too big for me to really like it.

Like everything from Spartan games, DW flirts with excellence, then jumps out of the car half way home. The latest fluff almost got the idea of how awful super-WWI should be, but it's a paragraph in a single blog post. I'd love to hear more about how Sturginium is causing a new black plague and how running thousands of warships on turbo-plutonium laced coal and unshielded nuclear reactors is ruining the planet, but as always, Spartan can't manage to stick with it.

http://www.spartangames.co.uk/dystopian-wars-frontline-despatches

>>50071464
>>50071508
Oh God, so awesome, thank you for letting me know.

>>50056606
steamconformity

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>>50073942
I kek'd

>>50073126
>>50073239
Yes. Like I said, no matter how much it sucked it still better than the alternative.

>>50062663
Thanks, and I'm glad I didn't derail the thread.