ITT: MTG Cards that don't get enough love edition

it would get plenty of love if it didn't suck so much ass, but being a WAY WAY WAY worse phyrexian arena tends to leave cards in the trash.

>>50049386

Is there any reason why it has seven hour counters?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO6Zk5qkYcA

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Another from a very recent set. An interesting utility land that is also a budget version of Mikokoro.

If you can deal with the discard, that is.

>>50049386
could be kinda interesting in Atraxa with more proliferate cards but theres probably just better and easier-to-use cards

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>>50049406

The drawback/s can be used both as a wincon and as a mean to give you time after you deplete some charges if you Harmless Offering it away

Also, this lovely thing here can produce so much value in commander, and the entire card's flavor is wonderful

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A single copy of this in a deck capable of paying it's incredibly high cost can nullify Valakuts and Lightning Storms while being quite hard to deal with of they don't have land destruction at hand.

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In commander, this thing can destroy friendships. The whole "chain of" cycle is awesome

>>50049468
i would want to have a lot of blue/green spells in my deck if i was using that card

i guess if your using it in comander thats 2 counters every time you play your commander

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I would LOVE if Wizards printed more cards like Browbeat. They might not be extremely competitive, but they sure are fun.

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Probably one of my favourite Planar Chaos cards, I really like when black gives the opponent difficult choices even though punish mechanics ain't that strong

>>50049554
>The whole "chain of" cycle is awesome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaCHBmGWcBc

I agree, it is pretty awesome.

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>>50051776
combined with pic related.

every time I get the combo into play, I say, "This is me giving a fuck."

>>50049417
because your starting hand size is seven

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>>50049588
They just reprinted Browbeat in a stick.

>>50049386
My LGS created a Sealed Limited League.
I pulled Midnight Oil from one of the packs, it's a complete bomb.

>>50051776
>and/or
what did he mean by this?

>>50049386
Does it stop working when you have 1 hour counter left?

Seems pretty costly for just extra draw.

>>50052099
It keeps working even when there's no counters on it, and cards that give you no max hand size override the penalty.

>>50052099
It does not. You will just draw an extra card and have a hand size of 0.
It's a very black theme.

>>50052167
Hell reliquary tower, spell book, and Venser's journal are all colorless, and the first one is a land.

>>50049386
I actually have one of these to slot into my Jund sideboard. It's better than Outpost Siege

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Coldsnap was such a fun set, along with Time Spiral block. Perhaps WotC should return to Dominaria more often.

>>50052099
if that card cost 3 it would be fucking insane.

>>50049468
I wish I had a U/G deck to take advantage of that.

>>50052323
Hot damn, that's some insane draw if you can manage the cost

>>50049570
No shit, sherlock. That's like half-dismissing Snapcaster because "I would want to have a lot of instant/sorcery spells in my deck if I was using that card"

>>50049588
Oh man, I remember back in the day when people commonly misread Browbeat to mean it did both.

>>50052128
My gentleman of African-American descent

Back in high school I had a Rakdos deck that had 4 of those (prerelease promos, I traded my friends for the other 3 from the prerelease we drove 3 hours to attend) and because we were all fucking terrible at Magic, it never ate removal and blew me out. I'd drop it on turn 3 (or turn 4 and discard a Fiery Temper/Strength of Lunacy) and just wreck face

>>50052443
High school magic is the best kind of magic

>>50052443
>b-but card disadvantage
>discard lingering souls and flashback spell, it uses up one of their removal spells
It's always value to me desu

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Along with many Coldsnap cards you guys posted, this one here has always fascinated me.

How can we break it?

>>50052479
they really should have given the ability a more generic name then ninjitsu
also that card is insanely undercosted

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I love fogs, and I love fogs with an upside at cmc 2.

>>50052635
Relentless Rats.

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>>50052635
i dont know about break it but when it goes of its gonna be bloody impressive
usually 5 apostle per turn

wait nevermind i just realized it triggers itself you will end up engorging your entire deck an theres to much risk of getting almost every creature you have board wiped

wait its may so it still works fine

also relentless rats if your boring

>>50052635
As >>50052696 said, it's already been done. Perhaps those apostles/disciples that sacrificing 6 pulls out that demon or whatever.

>>50052652
>ninjutsu isn’t generic enough
what?

>undercosted
can't argue there. I would honestly splash some black just for that one card.

>>50052097

Make up X from a combination of cards from your hand or permanents on the battlefield.

X = 3, so 2 permanents + 1 card in hard, 3 permanents, 3 cards in hand, or 2 cards in hand + 1 permanent.

Etc.

>>50052763
i think it could work but i think i read somewhere that r&d is reluctant to use the mechanic because of the name

>>50052097
exiled permanants + exiled spells + exiled lands =x

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>>50052763
Since it's flavor bound to a far eastern theme it makes it harder for wotc to print new cards with the same ability
Although we already have keywords reprinted without the keyord itself

>>50052801
They can just rename the mechanic like they did for chroma, no big deal

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>>50052783
>we don't want the naruto/weeb audience.
You're starting to make me think R&D are kind of ok.

>>50052809
Croma is a bit different than Sunburst since it isn't restricted to charge or +1/+1 counters, just like Escalate is more flexible than Entwine

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Mind Lapse

People tend to say that it's unplayable Homelands crap since your opponent will just cast the spell next turn instead but to me it seems to be a good card since not only is it cheap to cast but it also lets you know what your opponent is going to draw next turn.

>>50052821
It's more like Kamigawa performed the worst of every world they have ever done and so they treat correlation as causation and refuse to do anything Kamigawa did, ever.

Nevermind that the real reason people hated Kamigawa was confusing, insanely poor cards mingled with strong power cards mixed in here and there at complete random, and coming hot off the heels of the super-powered Mirrodin block creating a perfect storm of stupidity.

>>50052834
that flavor text makes me feel like it should make them shuffle the countered spell into their deck instead of just putting it on top.

>>50052834
One of the few homelands cards that's not terrible in all scenarios

>>50052801
to be fair im pretty sure thats just because they think the keyword would scare people off from standard

>>50052834
Its alright, the tempo is not a moot point, the problem it has is that usually its more powerful to counter the spell outright of which there are plenty of ways to do so for the same cost. It's other problem is that remand is a similar kinda counter but the fact that it draws a card just pushes it over lapse.

>>50052834
>since your opponent will just cast the spell next turn
Not true. Remand is a Modern staple, and even then drawing a card is arguably better than slowing down the opponent.
That card is unplayable Homelands crap because it's just Vintage/Legacy legal where there are lots of better options.

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one day there will be a deck with a lot of walls and this will see play

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>>50052843
ah, that makes a lot more sense then. fuck R&D

>>50052866
Nah, if the ablity will only show up on one or two cards in a set they wont print the keyword on it to help keep the game vocabulary down for newer players in the set.

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>>50052843
>Nevermind that the real reason people hated Kamigawa was confusing, insanely poor cards mingled with strong power cards mixed in here and there at complete random, and coming hot off the heels of the super-powered Mirrodin block creating a perfect storm of stupidity.
And then they did it again!

>>50052843
It also scored very poorly in the flavour and world aspects with most players as well. Most players dont know much about japenese myths and so all the kami and crap made no sense and just put a lot of people off.

>>50052910
Even maro said bfz was a mistake on his blogatog.

>>50052635

Relentless rats.

And either blasting station or altar of dementia.

>>50052903
that makes sense
it would have been really silly on bane of bela geed being the only card in the set with annihilator

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>>50052915
Hell, MtG Kami don't make sense even if you do know japanese myths. They're nothing like japanese kami, or even youkai. They're complete nonsense no matter what background you come from.

>>50052843
>Worst of every world they have ever done
Actually that'd be Homelands.

>>50052927
It said exile, not sacrifice, which makes sense since they made enemy exile matter. Still, thats basically the point.

>>50052925
why is peoples first thought always relentless rats over shadowborn apostle

>>50052891
I was actually trying to think of a good custom card that causes target player to exile X lands amd return them to the field as like 0/4 defenders with reach or something like that, but I haven't thought of anything beyond that.

>>50052941
Because having 20 1/1s that I can sacrifice in groups of 6 for a demon is a lot less intimidating than having 20 21/21 rats.

>>50052939
as yes your right its not quite annihilator

>>50052938
Probably Fallen Empires was even worse, but that took place in Dominaria. If we're talking failing planes, the Homelands one was Ulgrotha.

>>50052938
Since they started doing market re search is something I should have clarified. Homelands predates WOTC's methods to resume people's interests in the world and mechanics

>>50052960
Ah, then yeah, Kamigawa was the flop.

The MAJORITY reason for that is the low power level inbetween one of the most busted blocks ever and one of the most BELOVED blocks ever, and the parasitic mechanics. That said, the setting was a nonzero part of it- a lot of people reacted poorly to the Japanese setting back in 2004.

>>50052831
Chroma and Converge are not the same mechanic

>>50052941
>flood the board with 1/1s that you need to sacrifice to pull one big nig
or
>flood the board with 2/2s that get +1/1 for each copy on the field

let's just assume you don't trigger more reverbs off of the free casts you get. would you rather have 5 6/6 creatures or 5 1/1 creatures that can't even use their ability because they're one short.

>>50052809
>>50052831
>>50052981
He meant Chroma and Devotion/

>>50052975
Oh yeah, was really a perfect storm of crap. Been stated before that if we were to see a return to a Japanese flavoured plane would be a new one and not kamigawa, most because convincing the corporate side of things that "return to the least popular thing we've ever done by a long shot" is a really hard sell,

>>50053013
At least we're able to still get stuff FROM Kamigawa via supplementary products.

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I used to run this in a janky 5-color enchantment pillowfort deck with wild research fueled by my tons of duel lands.

There were 4 of each of the combo pieces and some other search stuff, but every other card in the deck was either a weird situational enchantment or instant.

I'd win by recycling urza's rage or prophetic bolt over and over.

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>>50053148
derp dual lands

>>50053172
Damn, that card is great

is the 60 card minimum for modern/standard really that important? right now I'm working on building my first deck (U/G) out of my draft cards and a deckbuilder's toolkit I bought and I'm currently looking at a 70 card deck. also what is a good lands to spells ratio, right now it has 24 lands (approximately 34% of the deck) but I have a bunch of cards that can fetch lands.

>>50053540
>is the 60 card minimum for modern/standard really that important?
Are you planning to play tournament quality decks? If so, then yes. You want as little randomness as possible in your deck, and more cards invariably adds more randomness.

>>50053540
60 cards is the most consistent. Anything beyond that lowers your chance of drawing your answers. Since the copies of cards you can include have a limit, your game plan gets muddy with over 60 cards.

>>50053540
Having more cards decreases the probability of drawing your good/important cards. Really what you should do is look at your deck and think long and hard about what really needs to be in there and what doesn't do anything to help your plan.

>>50053540
Go look at the decklists that win the World Magic Cup, the Pro Tour, the Grands Prix. Hell, look at the top 8, the top 16, the top however many lists they show.

Notice that none of them are ever more than 60 cards.

>>50052479
it got play in standard

>>50053606
61 card elf deck top 8'd A modern event not long ago with no sideboard

97 card deck won a GP trial for legacy with elves.

It's not common, but it happens.

>>50053558
>>50053567
>>50053569
>>50053606
not planning on going super serious, but I'll try to trim the fat down to 60 cards. what are some staples for a pauper U/G deck built around 'thing in ice', 'Nissa vital force', and 'Dovin Baan'?

>>50052975

I played during Mirrodin. I played affinity, I hated it. I was so excited for Kamigawa it was insane. What ended up happening? Jamming Jittes into affinity decks ;-;.

Kamigawa sucked so hard. I stopped playing at FNM (still did casually with friends), scaled back my spending almost 99% on MTG products, and finally quit in 09. I came back just this April. Thats how much Kamigawa sucked.

>>50053667
"A modern event" and a GPT are not Grand Prix, Pro Tour, or Worlds.

>>50053679
Pauper is commons only, so none of those cards are legal in the pauper format.

I think you mean casual. Look into Harrow, Kodama's Reach, Avenger of Zendikar, and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar

>>50053679
Ponder how the WU Dovin Baan fits into a UG deck

>>50053735
I thought pauper was just a term for cheap decks for poorfags. why must this game have so many formats?

>>50053679
>Pauper U/G deck
>"Built around" two mythics and a rare, one of which is U/W
I don't think you know what pauper or U/G mean.

>>50053779
I think it's because there are over 40,000 unique cards and people want to play with as many of them as they can so they don't just rot in a closet somewhere.

>>50053779
Technically, it doesn't.

The only formats that really get any measure of 'official' support are Standard, Limited, Modern, and Legacy, in that order. There's some pockets of Vintage players, but it's not supported at all by WOTC other than "it is sanctionable". There's also Block Constructed, but nobody plays that.

Pauper is a fan-made format. It's not officially supported or sanctionable, it's just "Commons only". There's no 'official' format for 'cheap decks'.

>>50053775
>>50053783
right now I have a single plains and a handful of cards that can fetch that plains, is that really so bad?

>>50053779
Nope. Pauper is a format made of only cards printed at common. Cheap decks are just called "budget" or casual. Not all casual decks are cheap though.

>>50053804
If you're splashing 1 white source and like 3 cards that can find it to cast ONE Dovin Baan, that is neither consistent nor worth the splash.

>>50053801
Pauper is supported, but only online. It's not a sactioned paper format though, which is stupid.

>>50053846
>But only online
So, not at all.

>>50053540
There are several reasons that having a larger deck might be SOMETIMES slightly better, but there are also reasonable counterarguments against them.

1) having more variety makes my deck more unpredictable for my opponent.
True, but it also makes it less predictable for you. You know your deck better than anyone else, so if you have a classic 24 land 36 spell deck and you're on turn 10, it's very easy to calculate the odds of drawing a creature kill spell in the next two turns, which can inform how you block, etcetera.

If you start adding more cards, especially just one or two ofs, the odds of drawing those solutions when you need them becomes very low.

2) Strong search, especially in a slow-tempo combo deck, makes deck size less important.

True, but environments dominated by strong search tend to come down to who gets their combo off first. If you have 2 essential combo pieces you're going to run 4 of each, plus a litany of solutions and protections. Do you want to draw your essential combo piece 1 turn later because you drew that sideboardable spell instead?

3)The meta is wide open locally and I don't know what to sideboard so I just put in both.

Guess, or go with whatever feels most likely. It's usually better to have 4/60 dead cards in game 1 that you'll sideboard out in game 2 than possibly 0 through 8/64 in game 1 but a 4/64 in game 2 and 3. Besides, if the meta is that open then you should probably focus more on core deck function than answers.

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>>50053801
Commander gets official support.

>>50053924
It's not sanctioned, is what I mean.

>>50053895

4) All my friends are beginners and I don't want to show up with a tournament-tuned deck, it's more fun for games to be unpredictable and we all like it that way.

The best reason. I do this. But also learn to play competitively, it's fun too.

>>50053863
Magic online has a decent following even if it's an awful program. Sets released on mtgo gave pauper some of its best cards at common. They fucked up with Peregrine Drake in EMA, but it'll be banned soon.

>>50053973
I guarantee you that you're not some kind of fucking god of Magic who has to kneecap themselves by adding 30 extra cards to their deck. You can build a fun 60 card deck without "accidentally" tournament-tuning it.

If you and your friends want unpredictable, fun, high-variance games, play Commander.

>>50053973
Commander might be the format if you like big unpredictable swingy games.

Theres a new set of commander decks coming out soon. Check them out. If you're new though, I would recommend last year's or the year before's commander decks. 2 color and monocolor respectively. They seem to be what you're after

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Yeah it's easily removable, but you can do some amazing things with it. Tree of Perdition, 1 damage boardwipes.

>>50054617

The avatar cycle was cool as fuck

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Back when I started playing, this card's effect surprised me so much I traded many cards to get it

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>>50053895
0) I'm playing a non-Spawnsire Battle of Wits deck

>>50055878
It also has the best flavor ever produced by the Magic creative team.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/seers-parables-2008-08-05

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>>50052665
Speaking of which, this thing can fuck people over hard. It feels incredible when you pretend to be helpless, then annihilate someone while all their creatures are tapped down. I'm surprised i don't see it used more.

>>50055878
MEGACYCLE. There were 10. And I loved the 'titles'.

Godhead. Ghastlord. Demigod. Deus. Oversoul. Divinity. Deity. Overbeing. Dominus. Nobilis.

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>>50056896
Maybe because this card exists.

>>50056896
>>50057476


Why not use both as "functional" 5-8 copies?

>>50057671
Spore Cloud can be even better in EDH, because you can fuck over more than one person at a time.

>>50053172
>>50053414
Can I use this with enchantment creatures

>>50052479
Rat pussy

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Can you feel empathy for a sandbar?

>>50058334
Of course

>>50058451
It's not that lonely, there's a bird!

>>50052891
i uh...

i have that deck

its nothing but walls and rolling stones and shit has banding and shit to force you to attack my walls.

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>>50056896
Because lagacy turbo fog has better options, even after we count Tangle

any place i can talk about older magic shit?
i just picked up a ton of cards for $40, sifting through them now. there is like 6 of those baseball card boxes worth of them, all older shit from probably about 1994-2005. can't remember what is money cards from older sets with no rarity levels.

>>50049468
Forgot about this card. I guess I'll find a way to put it into Newzuri.

>>50052282
I like it but srsly why would you put it in jund when Dark Confidant and Phyrexian Arena exist?

>>50049554

in my playgroup this would just be "everybody discards their hand"

>>50052834

memory lapse is one of my favorite counterspells

its really fun on an isochron scepter because you can eat their draw for turn and continually counter whatever they play

>>50053829
i dunno i think it might be worth the splash in the right deck

>>50053973
i agree you would be interested in comander

>>50052128
>rk post worked on another Avatar

That cycle was too fucking cool to be in the shitshow that was Prophecy. How I missed this card is beyond me but I am pleased.

>>50052801
>>50052866
>>50052903
All I personally hope is that these kinds of cards get reprinted in something irrelevant to Standard when they rotate or something and get their ability words added in. Maybe the Gearseeker Serpent isn't the best example of this since giving it affinity could somehow matter, but shit like the landfall card in Shadows block and the like.

>>50056896
this is one of those "the more players the better it is" cards, first thing you're in a 1v1 it's shite and there are many other options better then it

>>50058999
thats fucking insane

>>50059518
Commander is okay but honestly we just like to build jank at home.

>>50052834

Plus if you've got anything to make em mill you can generate a nice little pile of salt from your poor unsuspecting victim

>>50052919
No he didn't, Maro said the "mistake" was underestimating how entitled the playerbase was in not liking it, and not acting accordingly.

You don't actually think Maro would apologize without taking the chance to prove how much better he is than all the basement dwelling sexist weebs that play MTG, would you?

>>50049607
>dabs

>>50059227
Because I already play dark Confidant and Phyrexian arena is guaranteed to cost me life every turn. Both of them can be hit by abrupt decay which is not a weakness Midnight Oil has

>>50051994
12-7am is night time. the term midnight oil is a real term used when somebody stays up late to work. If youre working after 7am thats normal, but if you neglect your 8 hours of sleep your memory goes to shit. Lack of memory in magic is represented by discard and productivity and reasearch are represented by drawing. Basically you make yourself a useless fuck via exhaustion.

>>50061812
It's very Black without being "DEMON DEATH NECROMANCER", I love it from a flavor perspective.
>I am going to get this project done
>I am going to get a fucking promotion for this
>I don't even care that my eyes are watering and I might pass out in traffic later

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>>50052635
>>50052711
I actually have an EDH deck that utilizes this combo

You won't believe how fun it is to pull it off in Xmage and spend 10 entire minutes paging through endless triggers as you pull 40% of your deck out onto the board

You won't believe how much it hurts when this gets hosed in an instant, but god damn does it feel good anyways.

>>50052935
And why it should? To me kamigawa is one of the more interesting planes art wise. Also missing lorwyn with fairytales.

>>50059414

It is basically that in many playgroups, mine included

>>50061404
Shit, I can't stop seeing it now

>>50049432
i'm trying this out in modern reanimator as more of a BR-playable desolate lighthouse - an additional way to dig for pieces or put a dude in the grave.
it's a 1-of, so i haven't gotten to use it in a game but i've heard it can do work

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>>50064236
also i wanna post Redirect.
This card is real versatile and awesome
it's great fun stealing auras from bogles, getting 2-for 1s by deflecting inquisitions and abrupt decays, countering counters, etc.

>>50052711
I just noticed that shadowborn apostle is a dude. Bleh, not nearly as fun.

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There's a reason they normally put "nontoken" on these sorts of cards. Cycling eldrazi spawn/scions with this thing is nuts.
And it's three devotion for gray merchant/blood artist exists so the life loss can be combated.

>>50056666
Nice quads

>>50061452
Fair point

>>50063705
to me the word always brings to mind that picture of lauran faust in front of the tv that a child will never watch

>>50052323
Its pretty sucks now in 20 lives commander duel.

Decent in 30 lives multiplayer comlander

>>50064284
>countering counters
A spell can't target itself

>>50069168
>P1, first card on stack
>P2, counter
???
>P1, brick instant with valid targets
>P1, redirect, target most recent counter redirecting to brick

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This card always caught my attention even though it's not useful unless built around

I always had a sweet spot for Skullcage. It's the fixed/balanced offspring of The Rack and The Black Vise. I even tried it back when it was standard legal

>>50069379
It works if there is at least another spell on the stack, but in that situation you need a somewhat specific card in hand, more open mana and you're getting 2 for 1
I gess that is the price to pay for versatility

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>>50069638

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>>50049386
love this card, could never find a use for it

>>50053030
Kamigawa also gets used for lore stuff in the overarching story (also, Tamiyo), so it's not like they aren't salvaging parts that people are ok with.

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Don't you think, I dunno, maybe this card could potentially skullfuck Standard as it currently stands?

>but it's just a worse Remand it doesn't even replace itself, why would you want to bounce Ishkanah off the field so they can recast it?

But for real this card strikes me as a very dangerous weapon in the hands of any tempo deck. It's rarely ever dead due to being able to serve as a janky unsummon at worst and completely ignores uncounterability when it punts spells off the stack.

>>50072392
use it in a bad all spells mixed with charbelcher deck

>>50073123
Too much stuff with ETB value in standard right now

>>50069379
>>50069654
don't be silly, you change the counter's target to redirect, which causes the counter to fizzle since redirect won't exist anymore when the counter resolves. this trick is in the gatherer rulings