Monsterhearts

>>50044263
>cheaper for queer teens
>made by tumblerinas, trigger warnings and hurt fefes everywhere

>>50044521
I just find it funny how the pdf talks about roleplaying as if it was some heavy shit that can make you break down psychologically. If that happens to you, you have bigger problems.

>>50044391
>>50044521
>>50044552
Don't forget (s)he reserves the right to veto skins for cultural appropriation. Not for being stupid and retarded, just for cultural appropriation.

>>50044391
I find it sort of ironic that people basically get triggered at the concept of trigger warnings.

The game is about playing some pretty heavy themes that hit close to home for a lot of people. The reason Safe Hearts (the pdf I linked in the OP image) exists is actually because the original game *didn't* include that sort of thing.

https://bitchmedia.org/post/save-vs-sexism-the-sexuality-of-Monsterhearts-story-games-teen-sexuality
>Monsterhearts has a lot to say about how we treat sex and each other. My one concern is that the game pushes participants to uncomfortable emotional places without balancing that in the text with caution. In the wrong mix of players, the game could be a terrible play experience. With such senstive topics at the game's center, it seems irresponsible to not to include more text about creating boundaries and when to call "scene," in order to make the table a safe place to explore volatile and highly charged emotional content. It's a game worth playing, but it needs to be played mindfully. Not everyone starts their roleplaying experience off with story games, and if your first time at the table is a bad game of Monsterhearts, it's not likely you'll be running back for more. Whether you play or run games, remember first to always be kind to those playing with you.

If you're not comfortable with that, and think it's just a game "made by tumblerinas, trigger warnings and hurt fefes everywhere" and that hurts *your* fee fees, well... it's not the game for you, and that's okay. Why bother posting, though?

>>50044552
First off, the game tackles heavy themes, and they're things that are common enough that they could reasonably have happened to people at the table (albeit without the supernatural elements). Rape, child abuse, even shitty break ups and abusive relationships aren't fictional.
More to the point
>If that happens to you, you have bigger problems.
And? Are you saying if you're made uncomfortable by things you should just... stop having fun?

>>50044566
So?

>>50044263
I've been running an extended MonsterHearts campaign and it's probably my favourite RPG.
I think it should be interesting to see what changes they've made. In my experience the threat and menace systems they have didn't work too well so I'd hope they've improved that, if the Apocalypse World 2nd edition is anything to go by they also might have added more granularity to the moves which will be a welcome change.

Kind of cool of them to give a discount for poorfags.

>>50044605
With how rabid you're defending this, I've got to ask: Are you the creator?

>>50044263
I can't really imagine what changes a new edition could make to the structure and mechanics of them game. It seems more like some kinda money grab.

>>50044681

Well, a few backers get to design a skin and insert their fursona/kin to the game's canon.

>lol guiz, I'm totally not trying to viral my own gaem!!

Where the fuck are all these kickstarter shills coming from? More to the point, why do they mistakenly believe /tg/ is the best platform to advertise their crap?

>>50044681
from people who've got the 'sneak peak' for being backers apparently a couple of the playbooks (specifically the ghost and ghoul that we know of) have been changed significantly, also the basic moves have been altered, for instance there's apparently no more 'manipulate an NPC' move, it's entirely done using strings. In addition the MC rules were weaker than in other PbtA games so there'll probably be some changes there.

>>50044651
Not the anon who wrote that post but you don't need to be the creator of the game to get fucking sick of how often people make assumptions about the game without reading a single word of it.

>>50044747
>Hey guys I found this cool thing on Kickstarter, what do you think of i-
>GET OUT OF HERE SHILL REEEEEEEEEE

>>50044762
I didn't say anything about the game itself. The game's pretty decent, but the trigger warning stuff just makes me cringe, as does this blatant shilling and the discrimination against non-"Queer" people

>>50044651
>Anyone who disagrees with ̶/̶p̶o̶l̶/̶'̶s̶ /tg/'s anti-SJW hate is a shill
I haven't even gotten to play the game. I just hate the bullshit.

>>50044566
>I reserve the option to say, "hey, that particular idea won't work, but maybe we can come up with a different one!" This might come up if there are concerns about cultural appropriation, for example.

>Cultural appropriation is literally the only reason that a skin will be vetoed, nothing else at all.

>>50044681
RPGs are a bad business for moneygrabbing, and Kickstarter projects barely meet the overhead. I've heard there are a few overhauls, though I've also heard some people aren't happy with them.

>>50044762
I mean, his assumptions aren't *wrong*, per se. He's just being an edgy shit. "lol, who has FEELINGS? Those are for pussies!"

>>50044794
>discrimination against non-"Queer" people
kek

>>50044791
It's pretty easy to spot the shills, desu. I mean, OP says:
>I haven't played the game
>the mechanics are amazing
>proceeds to rabidly defends game he's supposedly never played

>>50044794
>discrimination against non-"Queer" people
eh as marketing tactics go it's a pretty good one, can't fault trying to further appeal to a target demographic

>>50044794
This "trigger warning" stuff only makes little babies cringe. Adults understand completely why it exists.
>the discrimination against non-"Queer" people
I bet you think Luke Cage was racist because it didn't have enough white people.

>>50044809
>proceeds to rabidly defends game he's supposedly never played
But that's basically what this board is for.
People who read a game, like the mechanics, and will never actually roll a die aside from sitting at their computer wishing they had a group.

Number of posters stay the same as butthurt increases, we've got a butthurt tranny tumblerina

>>50044850
Speak for yourself, I've never discussed a system I haven't played or was in the process of starting to play

>>50044809
>2nd edition of a game I assume OP has played
>1st edition mechanics were neat, so it is reasonable to assume 2e will be neat unless they do a complete 180 and convert to gurps or something drastic.
>defends game from people shitposting Shill and SJW

>>50044391
>cheaper for queer teens
>made by tumblerinas, trigger warnings and hurt fefes everywhere

I'm a literal faggot, and even I wouldn't play this. There's nothing about D&D or WoD or any other standard role-playing fare that explicitly prevents my group from having gay characters, or acting out settings that involve "controversial" themes. As a matter of fact, some editions of D&D and WoD go out of their way to seem more inclusive by spelling out that a player character can be of any sexual orientation or gender identity the player wants to define.

Whoever wrote this shitty game, please be advised that they do not represent me or any significant portion of what you might consider my "community."

>>50044801
>>50044821
>le minorities can't be racist maymay

>>50044809
People have played the game though, retard. The kickstarter's for the second edition.

>>50044821
but muh reverse discrimination by the SJW is whats ruining society, just ask /pol/!

>>50044870


Nice try, but easily defeated by reading the OP, where he says
>I haven't played Monsterhearts
and not
>I haven't played Monsterhearts 2

>>50044908
The other 2 still apply however

>>50044895
>it's not currently affecting mainstream society, so it's not wrong
kek

>>50044821

Thanks for reminding me to keep watching Luke Cage, anon. First two episodes were great, but I hear they messed it up toward the end with a worse villain

>>50044895
Her argument is literally "these kind of people have higher suicide rates" so where's the discount for every other group of people more often committing suicide, like veterans?

>>50044870
I actually literally said I haven't played it. The friend who said he'd run it just... didn't. The other friend who linked me the Kickstarter may run it, though. But I did love what I read, and what I've heard, which is why I've been wanting to play it so much.

>>50044851
Iunno, you seem more butthurt.

>>50044873
Just because a game allows something doesn't mean that it focuses on it. D&D is not really good for playing out *any* social themes, much less the manipulations of high school monsters.
World of Darkness on the other hand DOES focus on many of the same themes, but they're presented differently, due to Monsterhearts focusing more on the paranormal romance than the horror and dark action, and also using PbtA.
There is, however, a WoD PbtA hack, called Shadowed World or something.

If you haven't read the game and you're just intent on hating it to be cool... well, feel free, no one gives a shit how you feel.

>>50044895
Shh, don't reveal how the SJW Cultural Marxist plot to breed out the whites by making them all beta numale cuck bronies starts with adding queer people to elfgames!

>>50044937
It's still good, just has the same issue that basically every other Marvel netflix show has where the writers don't really get pacing. About halfway through they switch to a different villain who's way more cartoony. Everything except the villain is still pretty great though.

>>50044944
Was this a game about combat veterans? Must have missed that somewhere anon.

>>50044973
Are you saying I can't play a straight character? You ableist fuck! Triggered!

>>50044959
>Iunno, you seem more butthurt.
Nah, I'm having fun. I was actually bored until I saw this thread.

>find trigger warnings
>post on /tg/
>????
>drink /pol/ tears

i like it

>>50044937
>>50044960
He's a good villain, but he's basically a clusterfuck. Like, the actor is good, but the character is a nutjob who flipflops and ruins his own plans because he's a psycho. It good, but it's no Jessica Jones. Still, can't wait for Iron Fist and The Defenders.
>has the same issue that basically every other Marvel netflix show has where the writers don't really get pacing.
Not just pacing, but time. Like, the whole show seems to take place over the course of like two weeks. It takes them about two days to get to Georgia and back

>>50044944
If this were a game about veterans and they got a discount, no one would bat an eye.

Continuing my token efforts to make this thread about the bloody game: people who've played 1st edition, what did you like/dislike about it? Based on that what do you want to see be different in this version?

>>50045032
>If this were a game about veterans and they got a discount, no one would bat an eye.
So why don't vampires and ghouls don't get discounts? I will have you know as a vampirekin I feel discriminated against and am also hurt by this game culturally appropriating my condition.

>>50045032
I'd play a game about Veterans if it was as good as Monsterhearts.

>>50045051
Mostly just messing with the skins a bit to make them fit more with theme and give each skin something unique to them. The core mechanics seemed rather sound to me(even the manipulate an npc move which i'm kinda sad to hear is getting shuffled into strings)

>If you think you might be LGBTQIA+ but you just aren't 100% sure yet, you count.
I've fapped to trap hentai, do I count? Also, what do the I and A stand for?

reminder that the people who made MonsterHearts also made a game about lesbian sex: http://buriedwithoutceremony.com/aplacetofuckeachother/

>>50045051

I haven't gotten the chance to play myself, but I'm very familiar with PbtA games in general, and have seen a few actual plays. Altogether, it seems like it might be the most tightly-designed deriviative of Apocalypse World. The mechanics for social influence are pretty interesting, and I hope they stay intact.

Like AW2E, I think it'll probably be a lot of small changes and clarifications. Things like rewriting the section on highlighting stats so it's more clear, would be nice. More playbooks wouldn't be a bad thing either.

>>50045051
>>50045079
Yeah, when I played, at first everyone grabbed whatever skin they wanted, but soon enough, everyone was only interested in the skins that had unique mechanics like the Angel.

>>50045093
elaborate

>>50045086
Intersex and Asexual

>>50044990
Actually, you literally can't. In fact, that's part of the point. Every character is in a state of teenage uncertainty and discomfort. If your character is male and you don't like guys, a guy can use the Turn Someone On move to... well, turn you on. It's your choice in how you act on that, but you're still popping a stiffy and having erotic thoughts, or whatever.

If that makes you uncomfortable, well, good thing the game comes with trigger warnings.

>>50045062
Powered By The Apocalypse is pretty easy to hack. Don't let your dreams be dreams, anon.

>>50045086
Intersex and Asexual.

>>50045079
>Mostly just messing with the skins a bit to make them fit more with theme and give each skin something unique to them
makes sense, which playbooks did you have in mind for needing some tweaking, I'd nominate the werewolf personally, I never had the clearest image of how it was supposed to play.

>>50045086

Intersex (e.g. hermaphrodites and other rare genetic conditions), and asexual, I believe.

>>50045062

I could see John Harper doing a good job at that

>>50045113
>Actually, you literally can't. In fact, that's part of the point. Every character is in a state of teenage uncertainty and discomfort. If your character is male and you don't like guys, a guy can use the Turn Someone On move to... well, turn you on. It's your choice in how you act on that, but you're still popping a stiffy and having erotic thoughts, or whatever.
So I can't play an Asexual character. Sounds like discrimination to me.

>>50045093
The friend who linked me the kickstarter really wants to play that. She also made an Apocalypse World hack about living in a queer commune in the Apocalypse.

>>50045103
They literally linked the game, anon. How much more elaboration do you need?

>>50045117
I would have personally liked the Queen to be changed to have a more clear definition on what the fuck it actually was. It seemed to not be actually supernatural at all last I looked over it.

>>50045117
My favorite example is the ghost: it focuses way too much on the brooding about your death and not enough on- you know- being a fucking ghost.

Like if you even want to do some poltergeist sort of stuff to get revenge on someone you have to take moves from other skins like the Fury, which shouldn't be the case imo.

>>50045129
Even worse, all characters are Bi. I honestly don't see how that's supposed to help a gay or lesbian teen out any.

>>50045148
The game's message is pretty clear: Sexuality doesn't exist, everyone is just bi.

Why you'd want to market such a piece of hateful propaganda to queer people is anyone's guess.

>>50045113

>but you're still popping a stiffy and having erotic thoughts, or whatever.

I don't think so, unless I forget how it works. Yes it's part of the point that you can't outright have full control over your sexuality (or emotions in general), but it doesn't mean successfully having that move used means you were turned on. All it does is give that person Strings on you, which could represent other ways they got your goat. That loss of emotional control, whether it's due to arousal, disgust, anger, embarrassment, is what the String represents IIRC.

>>50045102
this is interesting to me because I often find the classes with unique mechanics to be less well designed overall

>>50045103
I don't know much about it, just what's in the link I gave

>>50045129
an asexual character would actually be kind of OP in MH when you consider it makes you immune to one of the main forms of PCvPC influence

>>50045129
>>50045148
"From a purely mechanical point of view there's no way to gain a string on an asexual character. As such any Asexual character is going to be effectively outside the string economy which I am not sure is wise."

It's definitely an option. Haven't read through all the available rules yet to see how it's implemented.

>>50045146

There are some ways to make it supernatural, with some of the moves going into mind control type powers. But I'm pretty sure you can play it as a mundane Regina George type character.

>>50045167
>I don't think so, unless I forget how it works. Yes it's part of the point that you can't outright have full control over your sexuality (or emotions in general), but it doesn't mean successfully having that move used means you were turned on. All it does is give that person Strings on you, which could represent other ways they got your goat. That loss of emotional control, whether it's due to arousal, disgust, anger, embarrassment, is what the String represents IIRC.
Yeah, that sounds much more reasonable (and what I remembered vaguely from having heard of it. You can be embarrassed by a gay dude hitting on you without being attracted to him. Though >>50045185
seems to disagree with that. Though, is sexual attraction really the ONLY way to gain strings? I thought it was just one of them?

>>50045166

See

>>50045167

>>50045138
>She also made an Apocalypse World hack about living in a queer commune in the Apocalypse
I read the rules for that game, I found the description odd since there's not really any queer content, it's just a roleplay game about managing a post-apocalyptic community, like AW just with a focus on the whole hardhold instead of specific characters (although each player does have a single PC)

>>50045146
>I would have personally liked the Queen to be changed to have a more clear definition on what the fuck it actually was. It seemed to not be actually supernatural at all last I looked over it.
A few of the playbooks are only optionally supernatural, the queen could be the head of a club, a gang leader, or just a really popular kid. Or they could be the leader of a hivemind and have a telepathic link to all their members

File: Monsterhearts-Skins.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>50045129
>>50045148
>I honestly don't see how that's supposed to help a gay or lesbian teen out any.
Actually, that IS one of the reasons a friend of mine is uncomfortable playing Monsterhearts. She's dealt with a lot of shit about her sexuality, and she's uncomfortable in any game that essentially forces her to be turned on by men. And that's okay.

But, yes, being awkward and hormonal and having a body that doesn't react the way you want it to is part of the theme of the game.

>>50045167
I'll defer to you. I haven't played it, I just remember that being one of the examples. You're turned on (they succeeded at the Turn Someone On roll), but you're in control of whether you act on that or not. Your heart is pumping and your body is doing things it does when you see a pretty girl, not a pretty guy, but it's not a "sleep with me" roll.

>>50045202
>Though, is sexual attraction really the ONLY way to gain strings? I thought it was just one of them?
Tons. Fights give strings. Most special abilities give strings.

>>50045146
I think that's the point. I mean, it's a Skin that could be supernatural or could be mundane-but-good. One of the things I like is that nothing is set in stone and you can play the supernatural creatures however you want, as opposed to one specific set type, like in WoD.

>>50045202

>Though, is sexual attraction really the ONLY way to gain strings? I thought it was just one of them?

Some of the other basic moves can also give you Strings on people. Lash Out Physically (for physical violence), and Shut Someone Down (for socially rejecting or pacifying someone) also do.

"Everyone is Bi and people can roll to make you gay," is a meme. It's like people saying Apocalypse World requires ERP, or GURPS can't be played without doing calculus. There's a grain of truth somewhere, but no one who repeats it has read the source material enough to even know what that is.

>>50045255
>It's like people saying Apocalypse World requires ERP
Well, I mean, you can have a steak sandwich without cheese, but why would you want to?

>>50045202
>Though, is sexual attraction really the ONLY way to gain strings? I thought it was just one of them?
the 'turn someone on' move is the main (non-class specific) way in which PCs gain strings on characters, you can also gain them from 'lash out physically' on a 10+ or from a 'shut someone down' if you get a 10+ and they have no strings on you. And NPCs can gain a string as a by-product of some of the PCs moves or from the MC making a hard move.

So for player character the easiest way to get strings is by turning someone on, but no it's not the only way

>>50045202
>not being turned on by a sexy upperclassman vampire.
What are you, fucking gay, anon?

>>50045253
>Tons. Fights give strings. Most special abilities give strings.
So wait, does the creator not understand her own system? Or was that quote from someone else?

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>>50045062
here

>>50045278
I don't know what the quote was from, but Turn Someone On is the primary way of doing Strings.

>>50045278
it was from the creator, it was an exaggeration of the advantage an asexual character would have, I'm not sure why they chose to say that. Although it does still clash with the themes of the game

>>50045278

The one about asexuals being outside the string economy? I'd hope it's from someone else, because that'd be a really strange thing for the creator to say

>>50045282
I feel like some of the impact is lost due to the creator not being good with English but writing a game in English.

>>50045282

This looks interesting, thanks

>>50045312
The game is not balanced for asexuals, so you can't play them.

That's hilarious. That is actually hilarious.
Especially for a game dealing with teenagers working through puberty.

>>50045441
That's not what it says at all. In fact, the Vampire is asexual. Their entire schtick is avoiding sex while still turning people on with their aloofness. In fact, they don't have a Sex move, they have a *Deny* Sex Move.
>When you deny someone sexually, gain a String on them. When you have sex with someone, lose all Strings on that person.

>>50045517
they're not asexual though since another player could still use the 'turn someone on' move against a vampire PC and suceed

>>50045441

It works perfectly fine for asexual characters though. The player is still in control of their character's reaction when someone else uses the move that's being discussed, and the reaction doesn't need to be arousal. And even if it is, it doesn't mean your character has to sleep with someone just because they rolled a 10+ on Turn Someone On. The bottom line is that it represents the attempt somehow getting to your character. That's perfectly consistent with playing a character who doesn't have interest in sex.

What would mess with game mechanics is if you declared that your character is absolutely immune to any physical, social, or emotional effects of people trying to seduce them.

>>50045441
People who haven't played the game have no idea of it beyond what they think it is about, but man, do they talk.

>>50045727
that seems to dominate most conversations about the game I see, we only recently got past seeing 'the GM can tell you when you get a boner' coming up every time

>>50045583
Being turned on by a guy doesn't make you gay, Anon.

>>50045590
Trying and succeeding. Though I will say that one thing I'm concerned/interested in is how the whole... "it's equally easy to seduce a choirboy as it is a slut" thing works out.

>This move implies something about sexuality, and particularly teenage sexuality. We don’t get to decide what turns us on. When you make a move to turn someone on (with a character action or with scene description), the other player doesn’t get to exclaim, “Wait, my character is straight! There’s no way that’d turn them on.” That’s a decision that we as players can’t make for our characters. The dice are going to be the ultimate referees of what is and isn’t sexy for these characters. Their own sexuality will confuse them and surprise them; it’ll show up in unexpected places and unlikely situations. Regardless of the results of the roll, however, each player still gets to decide how their character reacts. Being turned on by someone doesn’t imply or demand a particular reaction.

>>50045759
>Being turned on by someone doesn’t imply or demand a particular reaction.
You just copy/pasted it?

>>50045759
>"it's equally easy to seduce a choirboy as it is a slut"
not quite, they're equally likely to be attracted to you, however while the slut might respond by jumping your bones, the choirboy would probably just get slightly flustered but otherwise not act on it

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>>50045727
Basically every thread.

>>50045784
I did.

>>50045818
Yeah, but it's interesting that there aren't really any... penalties or defenses in PbtA games.

>>50045889
>Yeah, but it's interesting that there aren't really any... penalties or defenses in PbtA games.
there are if you count strings, gangs, and conditions.

Strings can be used to gain a +1 or impose a -1
If you have your gang for support you get a +1 (if it makes sense)
If you target a character's condition you get +1

>>50045943
and that's actually not counting the various class-specific situational modifiers, the Queen imposing a -1 on anyone acting against them when their gang's present, the fae getting a +3 (I think) to turn someone on if they give the person a string

>>50045316
It's from non-creator - just a playtester feedback thing

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>86 replies, 12 posters
>>50044263
>heavy queer themes
>>50044584
>pretty heavy themes
>>50044605
>heavy themes

Ovary Mcdildo, we know it's you. Stop pretending. Your game isn't deep or meaningful. It's just a way for you to wank to your forced sexuality fantasies and inject your horrible fetishes into the games you love. You are the real life whizzard and you're shilling is too obvious. Please retake Astroturfing 101 before you return.

>inb4 "y u so assblast trigred pol internet hat mashin u mad"

>>50046125
I think /pol/ likes accusing people of being shills because it implies people care about 4chan. People can like things you don't.

>>50045943
I actually didn't know Strings could give negatives. Still, I'm so used to trying to hit a DC, or subtracting a defense value.

>>50046189
So you're saying the earth doesn't revolve around memes and 4chan?

>>50044944
By what kind of moon-logic is that the reason for veteran discounts or anything approaching an acceptable way to address elevated suicide risks?

It's crap like this that breeds accusations of virtue signalling. It's easier to assume that it's a cynical front used solely to try to draw in sales rather than to believe that someone interested in those issues seriously thinks that it's an appropriate way to address them. Shit's downright exploitative.

>>50046125
The pathfinder thread has 314 replies and 56 posters. 5.6 average per poster. We're sitting at 7.2. Checks out. Especially if you count all the samefagging shill parts.

>>50046444
Niche game is niche, your point anon?

>>50046469
Countering the anon implying we had too many posts-to-posters by showing the ratio of a much more popular game had only slightly better post-to-poster ratios, thus undermining the further implication that this is some sort of shill thread?

We fucking up now tho.

>>50046429
No one *actually* cares about issues. They just pretend to, to look good for other people who pretend to care about issues.

>>50046444
If talking about why a game is good is shilling, little under half of /tg/ is shills.
Not all, obviously. Most of /tg/ is about how games suck and fun is dead.

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>ftw when I'm running a game of Monsterhearts RIGHT NOW and all my players so far are really cool

>>50044944
But that is literally true of males. It really shows what these kind of people actually believe when they ignore the blatant discrimination against men in society. Seriously, 89% of criminal convicts are men.

>>50046593
Tell us about it. What skins are they using and how much lunch room drama has there been?

>>50046604
Gay males have higher suicide rates than straight males. Also, men and women have equal suicide attempt rates. Women just tend to go for pills instead of blowing their brains out, since women are encouraged to not make a mess.

>>50044263
Sounds stupid, trying to use supernatural monsters to make drama and it is even compared to Twilight.

Of course if your the type of guy that enjoys sparkly gay vampire sex then go ahead, but do it with your own friends.

If you can reply to this post with anything but '2Deep4U' then I will be impressed.

>>50046671
I've already replied to posts like yours. You can read the first few responses in the thread to see them.

>but do it with your own friends
Anon, do you think there's some gang going out and kidnapping people and forcing them to play indie RPGs against their will?

>>50046671
Well yeah the game fully admits that the game is for those people who shit on twilight and said "I could write better!"

This is the chance for those people to prove it while having a neat little rpg about teens growing up.

>>50046688
I think the emotional reaction here is akin to serious literary enthusiasts being told that they should try out Twilight and see if they like it.

You can say it's just an invitation but you're still inviting me to eat shit.

>>50044681
>I really can't imagine a second edition of a game based on another game that just had its second edition

>>50046670
>attempt
Attempts are not equal to success you fuck, many "attempts" are attention seeking moves, not actual attempts at killing themselves. Suicide is incredibly easy, those who fuck it up only fuck it up usually because they don't want to actually die.

>>50046780
lol, OK you just went internet expert and tough guy at once.

>>50046832
And you just attempted to wipe away the male suicide epidemic as if it doesn't exist.

>>50046593
I know this feel

It's actually the longest my group has ever maintained interest in a campaign

>>50046671
it's a game with good social mechanics about teenage drama. in my experience the main function of the supernatural elements is escalation, the normal teen drama situations getting turned up to eleven because the people involved are various monsters as opposed to normal people. It means that the stakes are generally higher than general petty teen bullshit

>>50046737
I'm not telling you to play it, though.

>And let’s be honest. You play because you have a guilty attraction to supernatural beasts and harlequin love stories, but you harbour the secret presumption that you could write them way better yourself. Good. This is your opportunity to prove it.
If that doesn't describe you... okay. I don't really care or mind. There are plenty of other games out there.

>>50046780
Cool. :thumbsup:

>>50046849
And so do you. You don't actually care about male suicide or it's causes, or you'd be interested in why men and women attempt at the same rate but men are more likely to succeed. You'd care about the toxic masculinity that is often at the core of why men want to take their lives, and why they can't express their depression or seek help to begin with. If you actually cared, you wouldn't bring that shit up as a way to go "well what about the men" to anything feminist or "SJW".
You only care about male suicide when you can use it as a cudgel. No one even said a male suicide epidemic doesn't exist. In fact, I pointed out one of the root causes of it. You on the other hand ignored that to imply that women are just histrionic attention seekers that don't *really* want to commit suicide or they'd succeed.
That not only shows a complete lack of awareness, but also a lack of compassion.

>>50047052
:thumbsup:
leave

>>50047052
>toxic masculinity
Blaming the male suicide epidemic on men is like blaming gay suicide on gays. But apparently criticism of the unfortunately very common among gays plastic and hedonistic life style is verboten but criticising male culture is not.

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>>50047106
>gays plastic and hedonistic life style
I wish I had a hedonistic lifestyle,

Nice way to generalize though

>>50047150
>toxic masculinity
Nice way to generalize over men. My point wasn't to insult gays but to explain that the concept of "toxic masculinity" is highly insulting and trivialises male problems.

>>50047052
>Your chance to prove it.
>One day Bob the eternal fag blastin' vampire was strolling the street, despite over three hundred confirmed Deny Sex moves, he got Turned On move from Julian with a crit success, he got a boner but thought he needed to use Deny Sex move which crit failed and ended up having sex, unsure of his identity as the fag blasting vampire and his sexual preference he rolls for suicide but even that fails.

>>50047193
bruh, I'm not even the anon that threw out the toxic line- I was just laughing at the "gays plastic and hedonistic life style" thing

>>50047064
Negative.
Since using Discord I'm seeing why people love emoji.

>>50047106
>>50047193
Are you from the 80s or something? Do you think gays are all just promiscuous partygoers?
Also, no, toxic masculinity is a very real problem. Much of what leads to male suicide is the cultural attitudes towards men in society. Men are taught not to ask for help, not to be emotional, that depression or feelings are for women. Men insult each other for being feminine, or not living up to an unrealistic ideal of manhood. All these things lead to suicide. Again, if you actually cared about male suicide, you'd care about these things and know about them. But instead I bet you're the kind of person who cyberbullies people on Reddit and goes around calling people "cuck" or "faggot", or at the very least "pussy".

It's easy to complain about toxic masculinity without actually knowing what it is, though.

>>50047227
Male suicide probably has much more to do with shit like working long hours on shitty and dangerous jobs, always being suspected of criminal activities (again 89% of convicts are male), the increased risk of being homeless and the overwhelming warmth and humanity that people choose to shower on women over men. Not bullshit "toxic masculinity."

>>50047227
Person who suffered from so called 'toxic masculinity', what I learned are people are assholes, calm down it may be a hard concept to grasp.

How did I deal with it, don't talk or share information with assholes, you have family and friends instead.

Working on becoming a programmer and if a coworker says to me to "Stop being a pussy faggot", I would go fuck you, you are not a team player, how the fuck did you even land a job here.

>>50046060

That makes sense. Would've saved a lot of posts in this thread.

>>50047201
Part 2
>Bob is sick and tired of all the lolurgaynao werewolves and ghouls, you wanted asex but apparently God doesn't permit that. Bob succeeds reload check placing another six silver shells in the revolver and shoots into Julian the werewolf twice more times he failed the other Aim checks. Julian the faglord's death is emotionally stunning to the audience and this is good as Bob can collect all of the salt to make a trapping circle for gay demons. He succeeds the check to Trap demon in salt dungeon. He was confused about his asexuality but his sexuality was actually supernatural Hitler and he must kill the Jews for good. Good night, I am coming for the kappas next, The End.

>>50047286
The increase success of male suicide is 100% because the gun used to do it.

>>50044263
You know there's a rule against advertising?

>>50048502
You know there's no rule against linking Kickstarters you think are neat?

>>50048519
but there is a rule against advertising

>>50048636
Good thing there's no rule against linking Kickstarters you think are neat.
We get it, you think anyone who likes something is a shill.

Why are you so against a roleplaying game about exploring gender and sexuality? Genuinely wondering why on earth it would attract such vitriol.

>>50045113
>It's your choice in how you act on that

Only if the person using the move rolls a 7-9. And even then, you get to choose between three outcomes:

>On a 7-9, they choose one: give themselves to you, promise something they think you want, give you a String against them.

Even though the book says "Being turned on by someone doesn’t imply or demand a particular reaction." well, it obviously fucking does.

>>50048803
Silly anon, if I can't enjoy it- no one can!

>>50048803
Because it makes people uncomfortable. More to the point, there are a lot of people who feel that any game that doesn't fully pander ONLY to them means that some other group is invading their hobbies, ESPECIALLY if that game panders to a different group of people.

For all the times the internet will get up in arms that the queers should make their own game, the idea of a queer person actually doing so is really scary to them, because it means that maybe their hobby isn't so exclusive to them after all. Maybe it's inclusive to people that make them uncomfortable simply by existing and being different than they are.

>>50049085

It's not that the game exists, it's that OP is retarded enough to think /tg/ is a smart place to market it.

>>50044263
Good god this writer is up their own ass.

>Cheaper if you are queer or in poverty
How the fuck do you even prove that shit? I'm fucking poor but If I'm in such a state that I can't pay $13 for a PDF then why am I on kickstarter?

Secondly just because some people are queer doesn't mean they deserve special fucking treatment. Leads people to entitlement and shit like that.

>I can remove skins if I find them problematic
Fine bitch I won't give you money how about that? I gave you money to make me a thing you don't get to decide shit for a customer.

>It's a game about queers getting superpowers.
If you want to play shitty self insert fan fiction then you can fuck right the hell off. No one wants to play with you because you are an asshole who has to bring their own shit into a game.

>Role-playing is heavy and possibly triggering.
If you are so soft that people rolling dice and talking about actions sets you on edge then you can go home. Get therapy. You obviously need it if you can't handle people talking about something related to something that happened to you.

You especially shouldn't be playing horror games.

>>50048803

I'm annoyed by its continuation of the politicization of storygaming, and its contribution to the political polarization of the hobby. Storygames going hard left on the one hand, OSR going hard-right on the other.

By itself it's basically a game with a big sign waving "I am a limited market that will never have more than a niche appeal in an already-niche hobby." I have a similar problem with the Urban Shadows Apocalypse hack and its emphasis on queering urban fantasy - it's pretty clear that there are specific people who are the "ideal" player, and I'm pretty sure anybody who did not play that way, or, well, hacked it to make it play differently would be accused of undercutting or sabotaging the game. It feels like an RPG that is part of a group that is actively insulating itself from RPGs.

And lastly, while people are entitled to their own tastes, the emphasis on this being a more moral, progressive RPG that seems writ large across the text as a whole suggests that if this isn't to your taste, you're part of the problem the game is trying to combat. And that is some bullshit.

AND ON THIS DAY /TG/ DEFEATED YET ANOTHER WORTHLESS "KREE-AYE-TOR" AND SHOWED THEM THE WORTHLESSNESS OF THEIR PRODUCT, VOID OF ALL MERIT, VOID OF SEXUAL APPEAL, VOID OF TACTICS, VOID OF ALL WORTH.

GO NOW, PIRATES OF /TG/. BRING US THIS PDF SO THAT WE MAY SPREAD IT AND RENDER IT AS VALUELESS AS ITS CONTENTS.

>>50048803
Because I came to play a game not go to fucking therapy. If I'm queer then I'm not going to a bunch of nerds to work out my personal problems. Bringing up my gay shit is like wagging my penis in people's faces and shouting "YOU SEE THIS? YOU MAKE ME HARD BECAUSE YOU ARE MALE AND I AM GAY!"

>>50049656
You sound pretty entitled.
Also, just because you back a project, even at a high level, doesn't mean that you get to dictate what the developer does. That's sort of the point of using Kickstarter over trying the more traditional route and having executives meddle in your product.

>If you are so soft that people rolling dice and talking about actions sets you on edge then you can go home. Get therapy. You obviously need it if you can't handle people talking about something related to something that happened to you.
You definitely sound entitled.
So basically what you're telling me is that you think that anyone who isn't as strong willed as you--anyone who's able to open themselves up and be uncomfortable--doesn't deserve to play RPGs? Anyone who actually does need therapy should stop having fun? You do know that games like this can *be* therapy, right?

>>50049737
That sounds like a pretty shitty reason. Why do you care if they're "insulating" themselves?

Also, maybe you are part of the problem, if you dislike games like this so much. People always seem so quick to argue that there's nothing wrong with the way they think or feel, even when the way they think or feel contributes to actual negative social norms. Like I said up thread: Everyone keeps saying the queers should make their own RPGs, yet whenever a minority does just that, everyone wants to go REEEEEE.

>>50049765
>defeated
Holy shit you're self-aggrandizing.
Also, you can find a pdf of Monsterhearts easy. Hell, I'll share it myself.
People ask for it a lot. It's highly praised. Literally no one gives a shit if you don't like it, just as literally no one gives a shit if you don't like Pathfinder or D&D or 40k or anything else. You haven't defeated anything, and the game has already been double-funded.
https://a.pomf.cat/mgsera.pdf

>>50049792
Yeah! If we wanna include sex in an RPG, we'll rape the female player's character or just jerk it under the table to our magical realms.

>>50049792
Anon, are you incapable of using your human brain to understand the world and it's complexities, and internalize the concept of "nuance"?
No one is forcing you to play this game. If you don't want to explore personal issues, you don't have to. If you don't want to be gay, you don't have to. If you don't want a game with sexuality, you don't have to play one. There are a hundred thousand games, Anon. I guarantee that no one will make you play this one.

>>50049814
I know you're joking, but the amount of times this has actually happened is frankly ridiculous.

>>50049826
OR... Its what /tg/ wants, and you need to fuck off back to tumblr.

>>50049844

>Its what /tg/ wants

Random guy who was browsing and happened on this post by chance:

Wow fuck you buddy don't fucking speak for me.

What's this game about? White Wolf shit but as a PbtA game? Eh I've heard worse

>>50049809

>even when the way they think or feel contributes to actual negative social norms.
>Believing extreme forms of microaggression theory this hard.

>>50049814
>Allowing female players into your games.

>>50049857
Eh... Y'know what, Random Guy Who Was Browsing and Happened on this Post By Chance And Is Totally Not The Creator Desperately Trying To False Flag As Hard As Xhe Possibly Can... you're right.

>>50049857

Even then, at least Urban Shadows strips out the teen romance bullshit, and it's easy to ignore the advice to "use this to REALLY TRANSGRESS SOCIETY" advice. MH a pretty shitty WW hack in that regard.

>>50049857
>White Wolf shit but as a PbtA game?
No, that would be Urban Shadows. But this is more or less that, yeah. It's got one of the most praised social systems of any game I've read about.

>>50049844
I'm not even sure what in my post is "what /tg/ wants". That reply doesn't logically follow from either of the statements I made.

>>50049881

>And Is Totally Not The Creator Desperately Trying To False Flag As Hard As Xhe Possibly Can

You know I'm really not right?

Like buddy lemme break this to you: White Wolf shit's been doing the whole "gay and trans feelings and drauma with supernaturals" since the 90's. Hell it was SUPER in your face about the fact some of its characters weren't gender binary. Tumblr wasn't the start of that shit it's just your first and primary exposure to it.

Also 4chan isn't your special hugbox where you can REEEEE out everyone you disagree with fuck off.

>>50049908

White Wolf has been trying and FAILING to get people to do that since the 90s, but we all know it was really a trenchcoat and katana simulation game.

>>50049919
Considering Onyx Path survived CCP's bullshit mismanagement, and White Wolf was just bought by Paradox, /tg/'s argument that they're alienating customers with all their "forced diversity" is clearly not holding water.

>>50049926
>>50049919

White Wolf kinda attracts people with the whole power fantasy/superhero aspect as well.

Monster Hearts doesn't really do that but then I think the game is pretty self evident. If you hear "play a supernatural monster as a teenager trying to interact with people" and your gut instinct is to spew bile and roll your eyes yea of course you're not gonna like this game.

>>50049881
I highly doubt Avery shills on 4chan. Or has the need to. The Kickstarter is already sitting at nearly 30k. And she does not write games anymore. Having given it up in favor of other more rewarding things to her. The second edition is just a fine tuning for the sake of releasing what she feels to be a quality product that addressed minor flaws in the first ed. to my understanding.

This is relevant
https://youtu.be/-r51IZ2qiq4

>>50049926

I'll give you that. Players are still just ignoring the forced diversity in the text and mechanics and doing the shit they want with it anyway. They're doing it in smaller numbers, but there's any number of other factors for that.

If Monsterhearts got really popular by some trick of the gods - D&D/Pathfinder popular, not obsessive-hobby-insider-neckbeard popular - people would probably be doing the same thing. What I think is different is that if creators found out MonsterHearts was being used like a date rape fantasy - and it can, thanks to Turn Someone On - by lots of white cismen who couldn't give less of a shit about queering RPGs, they'd die of apoplexy.

>>50049960
>I'll give you that. Players are still just ignoring the forced diversity in the text and mechanics and doing the shit they want with it anyway. They're doing it in smaller numbers, but there's any number of other factors for that.

If someone came to the table with a character whose primary identifying feature was an overwhelming emphasis on gender or sexuality I'd be inclined to treat them the same as someone as someone who brings a character that can't shut up about jews owning all the banks.

>>50049809
Here's any example of shit that actually happened at the table:

>Play with VtM (First time by the way) with a gay person
>character is gay
>makes their character their own personal fantasy
>Good looking beyond all imagination, the whole 9 yards.
>Game starts and he starts aggressively hitting on my character.
>Turn him down in character.
>Gets even more aggressive with the coming on.
>Tell him outside of the game that I'm just here to kill stuff and have fun, not really interested in a in game romance and stuff.
>Gives me a pouty face next session and as the actual mystery is starting he dominates my character.
>I fail and he turns my character into his personal fuck doll. And thralls me to make it permeant it
>Kay.
>Throws a bitch fit when I try to break the domination.
>even the rest of the group thinking that he's being a bit serious with this shit
>storms out of the session when the group goes against him

This is the level of shit I deal with.

>>50049960
I don't think that at all.

And there's not really any "forced" diversity in the first place. The game is not forcing you to make every character a black queer transwoman. Rich Thomas will not have Rose Bailey go put you in an armbar if you don't have queer characters in your game. What the games do however is to encourage you to think of these people as actually existing in both the fantasy world and the real world. Something that one of the most contentious sidebars outright states.

>>50050004
I've noticed that the people concerned about an "overwhelming emphasis" on gender or sexuality often means "any indication the character isn't a straight white cisgender man".
I have a character that's a transman changeling. His themes include trying to contextualize what manliness means to him and how to be both manly and a stunningly attractive hobo in the wake of having been sexually abused by a faerie. He keeps a roof over his head by, essentially, sleeping around and eating whatever's in his most recent room mate's cabinets for a few days before finding somewhere else.

>>50050019
Look, I'm going to be honest with you, this smacks of "here's a totally not made up example of why it's okay that I don't like playing with gay people". I'm not saying gay guys can't be creepy and rapey in game, plenty of people can. But it just seems like you're coming up with generalizations. I'm not even sure what part of my post you'd be replying to.

>>50050022

I do, because in such a scenario (and I freely admit that this is pie-in-the-sky hypothetical bullshit), it means their game is helping contribute to "normalizing toxic attitudes" they're trying to discourage. Either the game's reception stays tiny, insular, and ineffectual, or the game gets popular, and gets its message ignored. If the creator is indeed shilling here, I'd like to know which choice is their preference!

As for contentious sidebars, they state a lot of things.

>>50050022
>I have a character that's a transman changeling. His themes include trying to contextualize what manliness means to him and how to be both manly and a stunningly attractive hobo in the wake of having been sexually abused by a faerie. He keeps a roof over his head by, essentially, sleeping around and eating whatever's in his most recent room mate's cabinets for a few days before finding somewhere else.
Does the rest of your party actually give a shit?

>>50049881
The thing that annoys me about you faggots that constantly cry shill is that you're so fucking arrogant. Oh yeah, you're obviously so entitled people are going to lie and pretend to be someone else on fucking /tg/ just to get you to buy whatever shit they're selling. I don't even care about this game, you're just a fucking retard.

>>50046060
Can it also be used by straight characters to resist compulsive homosexuality?

>>50050051
I wish I was making that up. I really do. I've had so many instances of this shit happening, not just to myself but to other people in my group that I actually and to shit this person down and tell him to calm the fuck down or leave. Safe to say I haven't seen this person in years.

All I'm really saying is that the few times that people have brought elements like that into a game it's been obnoxious and out of line, even to the other gay people in my group.

It's become an unspoken rule that we just don't bring up sexuality if we can help it because it's been way too much of a problem in the past.

>>50050108
>actually and to shit
Actually had to sit.

>>50050102

"If someone targets your character with turn someone on but it's not possible for your character to get turned on in that situation, let them know. Instead, it counts as a roll to shut someone down using hot."

Seems that way. Also, the stats sound exactly like somebody trying to hamfistedly mimic Vince Baker's writing style. Fitting.

>>50050102
Yeah? That's obviously what it says.

>>50050125

The important point is to note that the text's only expansion on that is to help defend against being turned straight. It conspicuously leaves out compulsory homosexuality.

>>50050071
>Does the rest of your party actually give a shit?
This is /tg/
Obviously I don't have a party
Jokes aside, no, the other people in my gaming group (that's more like a "talks about gaming group") like him. He's a cutey.

>>50050124
>Seems that way. Also, the stats sound exactly like somebody trying to hamfistedly mimic Vince Baker's writing style. Fitting.
You do realize this is a Powered by the Apocalypse game, right? That's sort of the point of them.

>>50050108
Well good for you, but other people have more mature gaming groups. "Hey, this game can make people uncomfortable and you should talk over what is or isn't okay before it starts" is literally the crux of the supplemental PDF I linked at the top of the thread.

>>50050150

Badly mimicking Vince Baker? That's kind of a shitty goal. There must be more to it.

>>50050136
You're right, clearly it's a war on heterosexuality, us straight people are definitely under attack by this one tabletop game.

>>50050136
The game is marketed towards queer players, or allies.
Many queer players are going to have already gone through having their sexuality tested, and are not necessarily going to be comfortable having it go against their wishes in the game world.
Heterosexual people on the other hand are not likely to have had that kind of experience.

If you can't handle a game written with queer people in mind, imagine how I feel when all the RPGs are filled with heteronormativity and breeders.

>>50050156
I'm pretty sure mimicking the style is one of the requirements for releasing an Apocalypse World hack.

>>50049826
>nuance
Let me ask you something. When sexuality is actually brought up in the game is it ever actually have nuance?

No it isn't

The times that sex, sexuality are ever brought up it usually means one of two things: One someone is playing a bard and sleeping around for shits and giggles, two someone is being creepy and not so subtly hitting on someone.

Or worse they build shit related to fetishes because they don't understand that I don't like your weird as loli dick-girl fetish.

>>50050162
Thank god they're so bad at it as to make it a tabletop game, right? Just imagine if they expanded their creative efforts to something that might actually affect society.

That aside, it's a pity they are warning against forced heterosexuality, because conversion therapy villains would be just the right kind of threat for this game.

>>50050172

Bemused, if it's anything like how I feel. A Place To Fuck Each Other was at least a purer expression of the form without pretending it was trying to be anything other than a "Just for us" game.

>>50050150
Boundaries are shit you learn as a group, no one needs to be told that shit it's infantilizing and assumes that you don't understand the basic concept of talking like actual human beings.

>>50050174
The book is talking about the rules forcing players to be straight. Conversion therapy plots would still work.

>>50050162
You just shut down his argument by bringing up gay discrimination. The book seems to intentionally ignore people who want to play straights.

>>50050172
>I'm pretty sure mimicking the style is one of the requirements for releasing an Apocalypse World hack.

No shit? Is that in the design documents? I honestly can't tell with PBtA games.

>>50050173
Your own experiences are not everyone's experiences. While I won't argue that many games use sex as a joke, or certain players making others uncomfortable, those are far from the only two ways that sex is or can be used in a roleplaying game.

>>50050174
Conversion therapy villains would work better as characters like William Stryker, who have a "cure" for the evil supernaturals.

>>50050178
It's not a "just for us" game. It's a "this is my primary demographic" game. And it's not pretending to be anything else, either. The game was created at a time in the creator's life when they were in the process of coming out. It no doubt helped her transition. It was modeled on those feelings. It's clearly a personal game, and it shouldn't have to be anything else, especially when it's a *good* personal game, unlike the other thread I've got pinned.

>>50050172
>If you can't handle a game written with queer people in mind

You say that as if Dungeons and Dragons, GRUPS, and any other game was only written for straight people.

>>50050198
I feel like you're the type of person who doesn't actually talk things through like a human being. Actually discussing boundaries, especially for a game like this, is not some low functioning internet autism robot thing for the socially ignorant, nor is it touchy feely bullshit for babies.

>>50050205
Why should the book care?

>>50050206
I was making a joke about how most of them are written in that style. I think Monsterhearts is probably the best of the bunch, though

>>50050209
No, but it's written with a default assumption of heteronormativity. Anything else is a deviation, one that's treated as an afterthought at best.

>>50050208
>Conversion therapy villains would work better as characters like William Stryker, who have a "cure" for the evil supernaturals.

If the game were sticking with supernaturals purely as a metaphor for sexuality, sure. But it kinda does a shit job of that by putting the sex front and center and as part of the mechanics in addition to the supernatural bits. Reverend "I Don't Care If It's a Ghost If It Ain't A QWEER Ghost" Johnson is also a valid threat here.

>>50050208
>Your own experiences are not everyone's experiences. While I won't argue that many games use sex as a joke, or certain players making others uncomfortable, those are far from the only two ways that sex is or can be used in a roleplaying game.

This isn't an assumption I just came up with on my own, this is pretty widespread phenomenon. And that's mostly according to Podcasts, forums, tweets, and other shit like that.

>>50050231
>Why should the book care?
The game is primarily about sexuality. It's reasonable for the rules to cover straight characters.

>>50050231
>DnD, GURPS, and most other games are "written with a default assumption of heteronormativity"
They just don't bring up sexuality that much. I think 5e's PHB has a section on if you want to play a gay/trans character.

>>50050270

Lots of shit comes up as a widespread phenomenon through bullshit anecdotal evidence. Sex being a problem subject in many tabletop groups. The gay agenda trying to subvert RPGs through products and hitting on players at the table. It's all under a wide umbrella of bullshit.

>>50050231
>No, but it's written with a default assumption of heteronormativity. Anything else is a deviation, one that's treated as an afterthought at best.

Much like actual sexuality should treated in games about punching vampires in the face.

And where is that shit written in the books? As far as I know Pathfinder never discuss the idea of sexuality in it's pages because presumably you're more interested in what the physiology of a nymph rather than if it happens to like men.

People are mature enough to know that in games of imagination that I need to write a section that says "It's fine to play gay characters"

>>50050022
>I have a character that's a transman changeling. His themes include trying to contextualize what manliness means to him and how to be both manly and a stunningly attractive hobo in the wake of having been sexually abused by a faerie. He keeps a roof over his head by, essentially, sleeping around and eating whatever's in his most recent room mate's cabinets for a few days before finding somewhere else.

That's fine as a concept, my main concern is the maturity of the characterisation.

I'd treat it with the same wariness as someone who comes to the table with a low-rent white-trash thug who reconciles his personal shortcomings with his masculine self-image by blaming entire ethnic groups. Both have the potential to be decent characters (not necessarily sympathetic in this case), but prior experiences with both set me on edge the same way as someone who announces their political affiliations while they're shaking your hand for the first time.

>>50045347
It was originally written in French. It was translated into English.

>>50050292
>Lots of shit comes up as a widespread phenomenon through bullshit anecdotal evidence.
Much like the way you find out that a particular brand of car is having problems with the starter going out randomly.

File: Lesbian half-orc.jpg (67KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 500x500px

>>50050236
Metaphors can still fuck, anon.

>>50050270
And from both my own experiences and many others--many of whom were specifically talking about Monsterhearts--sexuality doesn't have to come up in games like that. And this is coming from people who have *also* had experiences with people being creepy and fetishistic and trying to rape the other PCs.

>>50050285
>>50050313
Anon, heterosexuality comes up in games a lot more than you seem to realize. Like, just as an example, most married couples, or any time there's children. Kings and queens, for instance.

>Much like actual sexuality should treated in games about punching vampires in the face.
Monsterhearts is not a game about punching vampires in the face. It's a game about teenage sexuality as experienced by supernatural beings.
>As far as I know Pathfinder never discuss the idea of sexuality in it's pages
Pathfinder is ridiculously progressive and "SJW". It's the only game I know of with a transgender iconic character, and there are several other non-normative characters throughout the Adventure Paths.
Like... this is one of the most common bitches about Pathfinder outside of "these rules are bad but I still want to keep playing a D&D derivative for some reason"

>>50050313
>People are mature enough to know that in games of imagination that I need to write a section that says "It's fine to play gay characters"
It's not about what's needed. It's about an explicit "you are not excluded". It's about letting people who have traditionally been marginalized and excluded from the community know that the people who exclude them are not representative of the community.

It's so that when shitbirds on /tg/ say "games are only for straight white males" you can point to that and go "literally eat a dick"

>>50050366
Oh, I assumed it was written in English first. Some authors do that, since English has a wider audience. Neat idea, though like I said it could use a better translation.

>>50050335
My issue is less with the acknowledgement that sex and sexuality can be problematic, and more that people have this kneejerk reaction specifically to queer sexuality. The bard sleeping around is a joke, and banging princesses doesn't raise an eyebrow. No one is concerned when a male character has a wife. But if a female character does those things? If a queer character does them? People on /tg/ have raised their heckles over gay characters question for their love when they've got no problem when straight characters do the same thing.

Then again, /tg/ also hates Fishmalks but thinks the Malkavian from Bloodlines is amazing, and hates That Guys but loves Old Man Henderson stories.

>>50050397
>Anon, heterosexuality comes up in games a lot more than you seem to realize. Like, just as an example, most married couples, or any time there's children. Kings and queens, for instance.

Presumably because Kings and Queens where things in real life that people use as inspiration. I for instance like to use that nobel woman, who's name escapes me for some reason, who killed young girls and bathed in their blood as a villain,

>Monsterhearts is not a game about punching vampires in the face. It's a game about teenage sexuality as experienced by supernatural beings.

Meant that as to say 90% of games on the market. Even Hollow Earth Expedition, such as good game.

>Pathfinder is ridiculously progressive and "SJW". It's the only game I know of with a transgender iconic character, and there are several other non-normative characters throughout the Adventure Paths.

Where the fuck is that in core book? Also those example characters have personifies? For what purpose?

>Like... this is one of the most common bitches about Pathfinder outside of "these rules are bad but I still want to keep playing a D&D derivative for some reason"

Really I use that as an example because i've not seen these things nor do most people who read the manuals. I guarantee you that 90% of players can't even name the iconic characters from the book.

>>50050444
>the Malkavian from Bloodlines is amazing
That's because the malk was written by professional writers as a primary protagonist, not a middling imaginative person who is trying to do wacky without depth.
>Old Man Henderson
Now I know you are baiting, because OMH could only exist because the GM enabled that kind of thing. It isn't a That Guy story, it is a Shit GM story, and is as likely to be entirely false as anything else.

>>50050506
>I for instance like to use that nobel woman, who's name escapes me for some reason, who killed young girls and bathed in their blood as a villain

Elizabeth Bathory.

>>50050444
>you can point to that and go "literally eat a dick"

Making that the game's mechanics was probably too literal a move there.

>>50050444
>It's not about what's needed. It's about an explicit "you are not excluded". It's about letting people who have traditionally been marginalized and excluded from the community know that the people who exclude them are not representative of the community.

Really? People honestly need to be told "Hey there are people in the world that aren't giant throwing dicks"? You know presumably people who've interacted with more than one group of people would understand this premise by now.

If you go about assuming that everyone of a certain group is going to be dicks to you aren't going to be interacting with a lot of people.

>It's so that when shitbirds on /tg/ say "games are only for straight white males"

Given that every other thread on this board involves people wanting to be the little girl I'm going to say that's just a joke.

>>50050506
>For what purpose?
To flesh out the world and make it less boring?
You do realize that like half of Pathfinder is centered around adventure paths and the setting of Golarion, right?

>>50050522
The Malk is a Fishmalk.
Old Man Henderson and characters like it are That Guys. People who ruin the game by doing something inappropriate. /tg/ just likes to stick it to groups that have fun in ways they don't approve.

>>50050528
What?
There are only mechanics for eating dicks if you're the Ghoul.

>>50050524
That's the name. Thanks anon.

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>>50050594
>Really? People need to be told [that minorities can play roleplaying games]?
If you honestly feel there isn't a large number of people in the roleplaying game community--ON THIS BOARD--that are hostile towards anyone who isn't straight, white, male or at the very least straight-acting, white-acting, male-acting people who never bring up the fact that they're not straight white males, then I don't know what to tell you. Any given day there seems to be at least three or four threads that feel like they were written by Donald Trump, complaining about the minorities and gays.

I mean, there are literally posts in this thread bitching about demographics the posters don't belong to, with implications that they shouldn't be playing.

Hell, >>>50038262 has a substantial number of posts about how black people existing in D&D ruins the setting.

>>50050597
>To flesh out the world and make it less boring?

I mean Pathfinder is literally just a ruleset there's really not much of a purpose to it.

>You do realize that like half of Pathfinder is centered around adventure paths and the setting of Golarion, right?

Now I do but I find the setting so divorced from the rule that I just don't think about it. It's never printed in the books and there aren't any mechanics for any part of the setting. Kind go like DnD, except for some reason the latest edition decided to drop very small references to Forgotten Realms.

>>50050597
>The Malk is a Fishmalk.
A fishmalk is one that does lolsorandumb shit, anon. The Malk in Bloodlines says outrageous shit, but it isn't stupid, but almost always incredibly insightful to the game's story and topically relevant, or a moodbreaker/easter egg like the stop sign conversation.
If you can't tell the difference between a good character and an actual fishmalk, I simply think you never have seen one and are relying on descriptions from /tg/.
>Old Man Henderson and characters like it are That Guys
OMH is considered the exception because he didn't actually ruin the game, and only got away with outlandish shit because the gm LET him, like letting him steal a fully armed apache with NO PURSUIT FROM MILITARY FORCES. You are blaming the player for pushing limits he knows he can get away with because the gm will not rein them in.
Or you can accept that the entire story is bullshit from the word go.

>>50050653
>It's never printed in the books

Anon, if you're trolling you're pretty fucking shit at it. Some of the most popular Pathfinder content are adventure paths set in their official setting, and there's a thriving weekly play organization across the globe that uses it as well. There are literally dozens of Pathfinder books about its setting, many more than the purely mechanical ones.

>/tg/ yet again shits itself whenever anyone who isn't cis/het/white shows up in their games of pretend

I fucking hate this place

>>50050653
>I mean Pathfinder is literally just a ruleset there's really not much of a purpose to it.
No, Pathfinder is a setting. In fact, it's primarily sold on it's setting of Golarion, and the numerous Adventure Paths that are put out every month, including the Pathfinder Society Organized Play ongoing story. Now they're even releasing their incredibly popular Adventure Paths as cardgame RPGs.

In fact, it's so fucking successful that I hear D&D is trying to copy Paizo and shit out modules.

>>50050663
>Talking to stop signs isn't lolrandom

>>50050673
Me too. I'm really tempted to quit altogether, but all the places with queers and chicks are too slow, or have weird formats, and also they're not anonymous, so I can't tell people to suck my tranny dick when I get pissed.

>>50044584
Heavy themes are a central aspect of bit-lit, soit's not unreasonable to expect a game based on it to be filled with such themes.
Besides, I consider that it's the job of the GM and players to etablish boundaries. A good GM with a nice party could run a safe and fun game of Fatal, and written warnings will have no effects on a shit GM (as I've been faced with rape or cannibalism in D&D and Star Wars, despite the fact that the settings and systems don't support such actions).

Also, Monsterhearts is the kind of game that screams "choose your players wisely". How can anyone think that exploring teenage sexuality and supernatural troubles with That Guy might be a good idea?

Tl;dr: Trigger warnings are useless because they're implicit to the genre and nature of the game.

>>50050629
Welcome to election season how may I take your order?

Seriously though if half the shit posting is real you assume is true then why isn't MYFAROG or FATAL discussed on this outside of some shit posting?

>>50050667
That might be the bread and butter of the company but any of the rulesets you can buy mention nothing about the setting, nothing.

Saying that Pathfinder, as a game is dependent on it's setting is like saying that DnD is intrinsically tied to Planescape or Ebberon.

Compare these games to Chronicles of Darkness where half of the shit the rules don't make sense unless you read the setting.

>>50050679
>In fact, it's so fucking successful that I hear D&D is trying to copy Paizo and shit out modules.

DnD's been going that shit since the 70's, this isn't exactly a new phenomenon.

>>50050715
>why isn't MYFAROG or FATAL discussed on this outside of some shit posting?
Because both are genuinely bad games mechanically.
>>50050679
>D&D is trying to copy Paizo and shit out modules.
Do you... not know anything about D&D? Modules used to be their thing for years. There are hundreds of modules for 2e, most of which were made by TSR themselves.
>Talking to stop signs isn't an easter egg for scripted comedy

>>50050715
I feel like you missed the point, which is not that people actually want to PLAY those shitty racist games. It's that they share sentiments with the racist game, like wanting a "purer" European fantasy setting. This isn't even some new thing that only happened because of Trump. /tg/ has always had that /pol/ bullshit, it just wasn't as loud until around #Gamergate ruining the internet out of fear of the SJW boogeyman taking away all your games.

>>50050709
>Tl;dr: Trigger warnings are useless because they're implicit to the genre and nature of the game.
I disagree, and feel like you may simply not know what trigger warnings really even are. Regardless of what they are, though, the things in RPGs are more "hey, this could get dicey, keep that in mind before you blunder in; go lightly". Which is something that people don't do often enough as is.

>Also, Monsterhearts is the kind of game that screams "choose your players wisely". How can anyone think that exploring teenage sexuality and supernatural troubles with That Guy might be a good idea?
I do agree with this. Which is why making explicit the kind of themes the game intends to explore is important. Again, Safe Hearts was written *because* the original didn't take any time out to say something about that. People felt that it was needed.

Meanwhile everyone hated Beast because it *didn't* do that.
While that hate has mostly simmered down, people still consider that a gross game about rape and abuse, while Monsterhearts is literally a game about those things and more and because it's willing to talk about that subject openly, people are more comfortable with it.

>>50050752

I think you're actually retarded, anon.

>>50050752
>>50050755
It's not that it's intrinsic. It's that it's the bulk of the company and gameline's products.
Also, yes, D&D has had modules forever, but they recently seem to have started adopting Paizo's specific style of handling them.

Talking to a stopsign is also not the only fishmalky thing in that game.

>>50050772
Which is what?
Having things occur with named characters that the players have a hand in, but don't star?
I point you to "Die, Vecna, Die", the module that ended with his ascension to godhood.
>not the only...
And I believe I said that all of them are either easter eggs you need to find or obvious comedy relief. The difference is that they are legitimately funny, while a fishmalk is pointedly NOT funny, simply cringey at best, actively detracting from the mood and game at worst.
>>50050760
>everyone hated Beast because it *didn't* do that.
People hated Beast because it tried to portray the abusers as being absolved of responsibility, and those who took them to task as evil hatemongers.

>>50050767
There is literally no mechanics in Pathfinder that is reliant on it's setting. You can call me retarded all you like but that doesn't make the statement any less true.

>>50050811
That's not why he's calling you retarded, anon.

>>50050806
I find it cringey. I find a lot of VtMB cringey. But this isn't the thread for that.

>>50050811
To wit, anon, you have things like the various alignment based spells and mechanics that very much rely on the setting, as well as some options for variant abilities (domains for example) that rely on settings to produce them.

>>50050816
Why because I choose to ignore all the stuff that is purely optional and doesn't add anything to game besides setting?

>>50050823
Given that Alignments have been in every edition of the DnD since the 70's it doesn't indicate anything outside of having some wonky mechanics from DnD.

>>50050871
No, because you're acting like it doesn't exist.
And just because a mechanic is in EVERY D&D setting doesn't mean it's not a setting mechanic.

>>50050811

You're being painfully dense, but aren't the example deities for Clerics and Paladins from their setting?

>>50050881
So are most of the Traits.

>>50050629
Did you miss that most of that thread is one guy sperging about
>muh pure European D&D
and everybody else laughing at him?

>>50050910
I was the one laughing. It certainly didn't seem like one person sperging, either. It rarely is. I doubt one person is the one who brought up how ~forced~ diversity is in this thread, or in the /wodg/.

>>50050916
I dunno, he had quite a distinctive posting style (the 'what's a capital letter' style).

>>50050876
I act like it doesn't exist because it doesn't matter. You need no of the setting books to play Pathfinder the rules are extremely setting neutral. Alignments aren't ever a setting mechanic they're just a game mechanic. They mean the same thing in Planescape and they mean the same thing in someone's original setting.

>>50050881
Names and functions of deities does not a setting make, besides the gods are a pretty setting neutral anyway.

>God of Travelers
>God of Death
>God of the Sun

These are things that any setting can use. Only specific lore I can remember from the core books was how the God of Travels became of god and it's so vague that it doesn't really mean much of anything.

>>50050899
The traits are literally: Was born in the city, was born in the wilderness, shit like that.

>>50044263
>I haven't played Monsterhearts

>>50050629
It seems to literally be one person and everyone else either laughing or pointing out that his spearing doesn't mean much of anything really.

I don't know about you anon but one or three people on a thread doesn't really seem to indicate the entire board racist/sexist/buzzword of the week.

>>50050937
Oh shit, I hadn't noticed that. That fucker may actually be the same one in the /wodg/.

>>50050944
It doesn't matter because you've arbitrarily decided that Pathfinder begins and ends at the corebook, as opposed to the thing that people are primarily buying Pathfinder for, which is the setting of Golarion.

>>50050953
If I got to actually play games, I wouldn't be on /tg/ in the first place.

>>50050961
And when this shit repeatedly comes up at least once a day, that's not something you can chalk up to "it's just one poster". That poster isn't the one in this thread complaining about trigger warnings or the gay focus. /pol/ attitudes infest every board at this point.

>>50050760
>People felt that it was needed.
Those people are idiots.

>>50050910
Regardless of what happens in one thread, the bitter sperglordery in real life is more common than it should be. This board isn't the problem, but there are shitty people here, there, and everywhere.

>>50050973
/pol/ attitudes infest boards because people on /pol/ have more that one interest and decide to look at other boards.

>>50050973
>It doesn't matter because you've arbitrarily decided that Pathfinder begins and ends at the corebook, as opposed to the thing that people are primarily buying Pathfinder for, which is the setting of Golarion.

People primarily bought Pathfinder because they sperged out of 4th Ed.

If we use the logic of the money making part of a DnD game then 2nd edition would be nothing more than Forgotten Realms which severally misses the point.

Games like DnD are fantasy toolboxes and their settings don't mean shit and their adventures don't mean shit.

You can play the game would having read any to the setting material and nothing in the game relies on you knowing the setting.

>>50050397
>Anon, heterosexuality comes up in games a lot more than you seem to realize. Like, just as an example, most married couples, or any time there's children. Kings and queens, for instance.

Marriage is a basic social institution. "Heterosexuality" is very much a 20th century concept.

Shocker: throughout most of human history, gays weren't persecuted insofar as they didn't disrupt social order. There have been gay kings (such as James I), and most gay men were married until, again, the 20th century.

How do you know the king isn't surreptitiously fucking that cute courtier by his side? Stop forcing his sexual identity into your heteronormative worldview, bigot.

So is any chance of discussing the system more of less out the window?

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>>50044263
>I haven't played this, but it's amazing in every way and you should give your money to them
>I'm not a shill I swear!

Fuck off.

>>50044263
Looks like the next Wraeththu. Aka queer fetish drama shit pretending to be deep roleplaying.

Can't wait to pirate the PDF and have a few chuckles about how awful it is.

If anyone who's never played the system is interested in how a session works out in practice then there's a one-shot on the roll20 youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTj75n3v9eTntS-X-q_8kcJ9_vzgg2u_i

>>50051134
More or less. I shouldn't have expected anything different.

>>50051174
You do know this is the second edition of a widely praised indie game, right? I literally linked the first edition up thread.

>>50051156
>>>/pol/

>>50051174
>Le ebin meme

OP: personally I think MH is the only PbtA game worth a damn. I hated how in AW everybody had sex moves (it doesn't fit with my vision of the genre), and here comes a game where they actually make sense. Plus, it's nice to see for once a game that is not about killing things and taking their stuff. But, /tg/ is probably not the right place to discuss such a game, between funposters and unironic 3.pf players.

>>50051204
It's Apocalypse World, there's not much to discuss here.

>>50051215
upthread people were having discussions about what mechanics they'd want to see change and their preferences regarding how different Skins are designed, but that got drowned out

Alright new question: those who've played MH, what have been some memorable moments of the game for you?

the most entertaining aspect of the campaign I'm running is probably the ongoing feud between the Ghoul and the Queen, this ongoing feud has seen
>the Queen's entire gang getting killed and eaten
>the Ghoul's girlfriend killed (she came back as a ghost but it still kind of sucks)
>the Ghoul causing the Queen's entire gang to break down and run away by talking at them
>the Queen's response to above (which was to just shoot her)

>>50051134
You never can.

>>50050629
>Donald Trump

Seriously? The guy who made it to the Republican ticket saying he loves LGBTQIA people, who supports gay marriage? You're going to invoke his name as this ultimate anti-gay boogeyman?

>>50051300
>The guy who made it onto the Republican ticket by forgetting he was supposed to use dogwhistles when voicing his xenophobia?
He said he said the gays love him. That doesn't make it true, and it's far from why people are going gaga over him.

>>50051210
MH is weirdly kinda the opposite of Dungeon World in that way.

>AW: these social moves are kinda clunky and the combat is hard to wrap your head around.

>DW: The social stuff is too heavy-handed, but there's some potential for cool semi-freeform combat. Lets just make an easy, cinematic combat system with some D&D style character advancement.

>MH: Combat is kinda boring. Lets go all-in on the social mechanics and just make a whole game about supernatural sex drama.

Apocalypse World isn't great, but it spawned a lot of neat ideas. Night Witches is another PbtA game that's pretty good.

>>50051332
He's essentially the populist candidate. That and the Democrats are so corrupt it's actually hilarious to watch.

The first one was an okay game with the right group, but I can't stand the politics behind it.

Making the game cheaper for your core demographic is just good PR.

Wish I'd known about it sooner, it's my dream to have a jekyll and hyde playbook for this stupid game.

>>50051359
>I can't stand the politics behind it.
Why?
I mean, I honestly don't understand this sentiment. It's not saying that gay people are better or saying straight people can't play. It's not even that radical. It's just a game made to appeal to a demographic that doesn't often get appealed to. The most radical thing is that the creator wants to make it cheaper for the kind of people it might mean the most to, and asks for weird things like with her other games, like "if you're queer it's free, but if you're not please donate 5$", and "this book is 10$ or free if you do charity work and send me an email".

Their politics are "I want to make the world a slightly better place, specifically for queer people".

>>50045167
garbage

>>50051395
Let me rephrase: It's laid on way too thick.

Neat idea but before I even got to the pitch I was cringing at how they were congratulating themselves for being groundbreaking and radical.

>>50051395
>Their politics are "I want to acquire the image of someone who is making the world a slightly better place, specifically for queer people".
FTFY. because you see, that is what leftism in the end is all about: holier-than-thou bullshit in the guise of secularism. just because these people don't go to church and accept jesus christ as their saviour, it doesn't mean that they aren't obnoxious and disgusting

>>50051416
>I can't imagine why would anyone want to support another human being without there being something to gain from that.

The creator is literally a trans woman. Doesn't it strike you as likely that, having gone through the shit trans people go through, she'd feel like supporting them?

Cynism doesn't make you look cool, it makes you look like a teenager.

>>50051395

"You're still poor, still at high risk of suicides, huge swathes of the world want to murder you, but now a company will sell you a game that lets you pick your own pronouns and says it's okay to be you."

Please. Small-scale corporatist bullshit. An admission of an inability to do anything actually useful for the demographic they want to serve.

>>50051300
>Trump supports LGBT+ people
>This is what republlicans' actually believe

>>50051582
I know plenty of LGBT+ people who appreciate it

>>50051609
I'm not one of them. Things have gotten so bad and divisive in the last 5-6 years I've gone back into the closet to avoid being associated with these people.

>>50051646
Who are "these people", and what have they done that's so heinous?

>>50051671
The "RESPECT MY FEE/FI/FO/FUM PRONOUN" brigade, talking down to people on an issue that affects not even a tenth of a percent of the global population, constantly making shit up (going as far as to say that 110% of all homicides in the US are transpeople) to push this, trying to get a life-ruining disorder accepted as "normal", doxxing, assaulting, and threatening LGBT people who don't want to be LGBT, all while ignoring people who have actual issues and actual difficulties that are not caused by people being assholes.

t. A guy who wants to treat the fact that his brain wants a female body, and a restraining order against a literal faggot who has a problem with that.

>>50051609
If you don't mind could you ask them why? I feel like I can somewhat understand from a "it's a surprising present to distract from stress/current troubles" standpoint (same for those with financial difficulties).

My first thought was similar to the poster you replied to in the train of thought was "They have problems with how society views them, their families not accepting them, and being targets/boogeymen to bigots... but hey, at least they saved $4!" My first read on it was definitely that although it was a nice sentiment, it was more likely to foster arguments on sites like this, than be of any actual help. Of course that does come from a much more "big-picture" view, than of just brightening someone's day.

I can't help but feel like there might have been a better way to help on a small-scale that wouldn't have had the side-effect of provoking arguments. I can't actually think of something I would trust to work 100% though, so fair's fair on that point.

>>50050172
>Imagine how how I feel when all the RPGs are filled with heteronormativity and breeders
The fuck? What RPG is filled with heteronormativity or "breeders"? What the fuck even is a "breeder"? I guess if I were playing FATAL I'd probably feel pretty bad too. Clearly there just aren't enough options in the "RPGs about fucking" market.

>>50051416
>>50051582
>No one ever *actually* cares about things. They just want to look like they do to other people who don't actually care.
The person who's obnoxious is you. You realize you're just virtue signalling yourself, right? What's worse, you're doing it anonymously.

>>50051718
Oh grow up. You're the one talking down to people here. Those people barely exist outside of cherry picking. I'm waist deep in the queer community and that shit does not come up except as jokes, or as a response to people being callously dismissive. You're the one spreading bullshit here. And I'm sorry, fuck you if you're trying to argue that transgender people don't deserve rights because there are only a few of them. You can self-hate all you want, no one cares.

>>50052063
Man, I was being sarcastic and joking. There are implicit depictions of heterosexuality everywhere. I'm not saying that it's not common in real life, I'm just pointing out that throughout fiction it's even more common.

>>50051881
>If you don't mind could you ask them why?
Because they're tired of being treated as they don't exist, so some fucking acknowledgement is nice. I don't mean people bitching about them in the media or trying to argue about why they don't deserve rights, I mean actually being depicted in fiction as heroes and protagonists.
Monsterhearts is going to foster arguments on a place like this because literally anything is going to foster arguments on /tg/. And anyone who actually *cares* about something and wants to help people, or wants to have games that are anything more than self-insert hack and slash murderhobo games about emotion and big ideas is seen as just lying to look good.

>>50050673
There is a difference between

>/tg/ yet again shits itself whenever anyone who isn't cis/het/white shows up in their games of pretend

and

>Shitty fanfic game made almost exclusively for queer characters and pretends to be so deep with it's shitty supernatural based drama.

>>50052514
Good thing this isn't the second except in the mind of people like you~

>>50052992
Hey, perfectly fine with someone's character being gay, but not a game where everybody is gay or for example a game set in ancient Greece without homosexual themes.

If you have to tell your players that they should play as homosexual/heterosexual/transgender without a valid reason then the game is shit.

And social mechanics seem shitty, write social aspects with some creativity instead of mainly the will of the dice.

>>50053094
>And social mechanics seem shitty
It's widely praised as one of the best social storygame systems out there.

>I'm fine with the queers, I just don't like it ~forced~
Look, for one thing, I have never seen anyone arguing that a lack of homosexuality in a Greek setting was historically inaccurate. In fact, I've seen people argue that the presence of one is.
But beyond that, no one is forcing you to play a gay character. If you play Monsterhearts, you are *choosing* to play a character who's sexuality is a nebulous thing ruled by fluctuating hormones and immature anxiety.

>>50050397
Gay and transgender cancel out. A woman married to a man is 100% vanilla, even if he likes playing dress up.

>/tg/ gets spooked by skeletons again

>>50053283
If you want, there's also a chrome extension that turns Millennials into Snake People.

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14KB, 201x251px

Is there a skin for playing as a goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus? Asking for a friend.

>>50053367
The Hive.

>>50053182
>no one is forcing you to play a gay character. If you play Monsterhearts, you are *choosing* to play a character who's sexuality is a nebulous thing ruled by fluctuating hormones and immature anxiety.

This. You wouldn't get all pissy if your burly barbarian took an axe to the nipple in D&D, so why get upset when the game specifically made to emulate sexually-confused teenage monsters has rules to emulate being sexually-confused teenage monsters?

>>50053597
They aren't upset at that. They are upset that such a game has the temerity to exist and brazenly offend their sensibilities by the fact of being there.

>>50044791
Silly anon, don't you kow? Only shills LIKE things, don't you know that REAL 4chan posters are supposed to blindly hate everything to show how cool and non-conformist we are?

>>50053415
Which one is that? Is it a fan skin?

>>50053638
How terrible!
It's a good thing these people aren't by and large also the type to criticize and mock others for being upset over far more common, and more worrisome, incidents!

>>50053638
If only we had some kind of warning system for triggers, or cards with a big X on them, that sensitive people could use to show that they're being made uncomfortable by the existence of [thing].

>>50053761
Don't be silly, everyone knows only pussies talk about when they're made uncomfortable. Everyone who's a *real* adult either puts up with it or stews quietly in anger.

>>50053367
Not if you ask for it like that, there won't ever be. Tell the developer that you identify as a dinosaur, though, and that just might do it. Can't let all the poor disenfranchised transaursians remain without roleplaying games to play.

>>50053825
>mfw people actually believe this is what SJWs are like

>>50053701
You are also allowed to like Pathfinder. Everything else is not a real RPG.

>>50053825
The smirking mustachioed face of Jesse "the Body" Ventura is integral to my sexual identity.

>>50053849
Do people here like Pathfinder? I don't think even the people in the Pathfinder threads like Pathfinder.

>>50053849
>/tg/
>not getting trigger by Pathfinder almost as bad as it's getting triggered by this game

nah now you're just being silly

>>50053951
/tg/ is able to get through an actual thread on Pathfinder with at least *some* discussion of the game. Not so here.

>>50054001
well, yeah, that's why it says triggered /almost/ as bad

>>50053848
Some really are like that. Most aren't and try to forget about those other more insane ones. And then they whip up silly pronouns anyways.

SJWs, aka slacktivists are fucking scum and you know it.

>>50054513
The people that get called SJW or slacktivist are by and large fucking teenagers, and people who obsess over bullying them and driving them deeper into depression are shitheads. Yes, I know, the Steven Universe/Homestuck/Whatever fandom is shitty and mean to people who don't share their values, and that sucks. But acting like there's some horrible SJW boogeyman threatening to bring about the specter of ~Cultural Marxism~ to destroy Western Values is fucking ridiculous, especially when most of the reason those people are shitty and hypersensitive is because they've had to deal with their very existence being demeaned.

And the fact that places like 4chan want to get up in arms because they seem cherry picked examples of Poe's Law but have little problem with dogwhistles of white nationalism and homophobia never fails to sour my grapes, whatever the fuck that idiom means.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what Cultural ̶B̶o̶l̶s̶h̶e̶v̶i̶s̶m̶ Marxism actually is, what it has to do with regular Marxism, and why either of them is supposed to make me quiver under the covers and say a prayer for Western culture.

tl;dr: Acting like those ~SJWs~ you see on r/TumblrInAction are in any way meaningful to the greater discourse of social justice is like not realizing the news will always interview the dumbest person on the street they can find.

I had an idea while driving around this weekend for a game called Skeleton Justice Warriors where you play skeletons who crusade against the breathlords (living people) to try and convert them to Skeleton Justice Warriors.

There are also Monster Rights Advocates, who absolutely hate skeletons, but also enjoy eating breathlords to birth more Monster Rights Advocates.

If there are three or more breathlords in the same room, the skeletons and monsters can't convert/eat them, so you have to pick them off one by one.

The living people just want to go about their generic medieval fantasy lives without being turned into skeletons or eaten by monsters.

>>50054606
Not disagreeing in any way, desu.

But these ideas are infectious as fuck. They're in the media. On posters. They power entire goddamn movements. BLM is no social justice, whining about cultural appropriation is no social justice.

One guy doing all the fucking work to find out who were the Yazidi killed by IS is social justice.

>>50054646
So sort of like Beast with the roles reversed, and actually self-aware?

If the mechanics were alright I'd play it.

>>50054606
IMO Cultural Marxism is shorthand for "seizing the means of production" with respect to culture. It is used to imply that an aggressive attempt is being made to take pre-existing culture away from those who produce it: see all the attempts to shoehorn in minorities of several persuasions to popular media.

More anecdotally there is the ongoing culture war in games (which is why we're even discussing it here).

>>50052473
"Everyone else is an asshole."

>>50044263
Sounds like Avery went down the deep end. Sad.

>>50054777
No, there is an ongoing assault against having fun except in proscribed and controlled ways.

Look at how many people have been chased away from /tg/. That was the start. Now all that's left are the people who hate fun that isn't how they think it should be and a few diehard content creators who wisely keep their mouths shut waitign for the rest of the idiots to find green and more easily raped pastures.

>>50054681
First off, the media has an active interest in making things look worse than they are. Case in point, BLM and people concerned about cultural appropriation. Second, those are both social justice, you just don't care about it because you don't feel that it's an issue that warrants your attention. Your understanding of what social justice is about doesn't match the reality.

>One guy doing all the fucking work to find out who were the Yazidi killed by IS is social justice.
You're right, clearly there is only one thing that people can care about at a time, so being concerned about the homefront and social welfare of Americans means being completely uncaring about anything that happens elsewhere. I'm being sarcastic, by the way.

>>50054777
Actually I already know what it is. It's a conspiracy theory that primarily Jewish interests are looking to undermine and corrupt traditional western values. It was originally Cultural Bolshevism, hence my strikeout text, and was coopted from the Nazis. It's your general "liberalism is bad and expanding the sphere of social progress to those traditionally outside of it destroys cultural purity" bullshit. While ultimately the same people who use a Marxist framework to criticize capitalism are advocating in favour of what gets labeled "Cultural Marxism", the two are really only related in that they're generally coming from the left and causing conservatives to worry as what was once unacceptable becomes considered acceptable.

The "culture war" is primarily a bunch of status quo warriors complaining when anyone they consider an outsider tries to join their hobbies. Because, again, letting in or acknowledging people outside of the supposed normal means--in these people's eyes--the degradation of purity.
Meanwhile women, queer people, and ethnic minorities just want to play elfgames without being harassed. And, in a larger cultural context, want to *exist* without getting harassed.

>>50054836
>No, there is an ongoing assault against having fun except in proscribed and controlled ways.
See, the thing is, I don't know whether you mean people who like games like Monsterhearts or World of Darkness, where the creators are allegedly telling everyone they can only play a certain way and if they do anything else they're doing it wrong and should feel bad...

Or if you're talking about the hateful grognards who say that if you're playing games with a story or emotional meaning or trying to do something more than solely focus on that nebulous concept of "fun"--nevermind that deep meaningful stories might be more "fun" for some people than hack and slashing with Monty Python quotes--you're doing it wrong and trying to turn the hobby into something that it's not.

The same of both could also be applied to video games.

But from what I've seen, it's the second that drives people away from /tg/. The large number of posters who are, if not outright Alt-Right and sympathizers, very against progressivism or any game that acknowledges queerness the way that Monsterhearts does. I mean, take most of this thread, where I wanted to talk about a second addition to a game I've been wishing I could play, and instead of hearing about people's experiences or talking about the game, we've had a meta-argument throughout this thread where people are very clearly arguing that it shouldn't exist and that if you play it you're the problem with gaming and society.

>>50054935
BLM is a fucking travesty in the way all its proponents present it. Attacking people's appearance and choice of garb for fucking Halloween has nothing to do with cultural appropriation either.

Actually, black Americans trying to reclaim African shit as theirs is much more cultural appropriation than some white schmuck wearing dreadlocks.

>>50054935
>women, queer people, and ethnic minorities just want to play elfgames without being harassed.
Are you implying that they can't? Because you have to know that that's bullshit.

>>50054994
Have you even read this thread?

>>50054980
This might sound strange to you, but there are a lot of people who are frustrated and upset when they see their cultural history turned into a cheap joke. And I shouldn't have to explain why a black face costume (or redface or yellowface) is poor taste.

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>>50055018
>Have you even read this thread?
>opinions posted on /tg/ resemble things that happen in the real world, and are not hyper-exaggerated for purposes of starting an argument

>>50055018
>This might sound strange to you
First things first, fuck off.
>but there are a lot of people who are frustrated and upset when they see their cultural history turned into a cheap joke. And I shouldn't have to explain why a black face costume (or redface or yellowface) is poor taste.
So fucking what. Being offended at thing isn't what JUSTICE is about. Say it's in poor taste. Whine about it, I don't know, write to the offending networks or whatever. It might or might not be cultural appropriation, which I honestly do not give a fuck about, because every culture on Earth ever has done that to a myriad of other cultures (including the original culture of the people whining about that shit—who are actually Americans/Americanized through and through), but it's not fucking relevant to social justice. It's fucking semantics bullshit. It's a goddamn scarecrow to distract from poverty stats, from corporate control of the politics, from fucking everything.

It's irrelevant as FUCK.

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>>50055087
Okay, then: Have you actually talked to the demographics in question? Because I can tell you, shit like /tg/ and #gamergate and all this other bullshit isn't just contained. There's less and less divide between the internet and the real world every day, and this "culture war" bullshit actually does effect people's lives. Denying that is to ignore reality. You may think that these arguments only happen on the internet, but they happen in gaming stores as well. I've had to deal with people being homophobic pricks in gaming stores. Nevermind that you have actual lawmakers trying to deny people their rights. Hell, several state representatives try to fight to keep anti-sodomy laws on the books, even after they were declared unconstitutional in 2003.

>>50055103
Again: People can care about more than one thing. In fact, I would argue that people who care about cultural appropriation--which is not simply cultural mingling, as you seem to think it is, but more the denigration and theft at the expense of the minority group: White people selling "authentic" native jewelry (which is illegal), denying credit to African Americans for rock&roll, or hateful caricatures like minstrel shows--are MORE likely to care about poverty, corporate control of politics, statism, and so forth. All the people I know who are concerned about those things are also the kind of people who would prefer political anarchy or otherwise socialist democracy.

Justice is about more than just the law, because society and the way that it thinks about things will always be more important than what the laws actually are. Many laws go unenforced, for instance, while things that aren't illegal are still treated with scorn and met with harassment. We can't have justice if certain members of society have to put up with bullshit that ruins their day while others don't.

>>50055277
>which is not simply cultural mingling, as you seem to think it is
Choke on it. Fuck your arrogant bullshit and deliberate misreading.
>Justice is about more than just the law
And fuck your strawmen.

>>50055277
>I've had to deal with people being homophobic pricks in gaming stores.
>this obviously represents an issue endemic to the hobby, and not just a few random assholes

>>50055277
In a totalitarian society, everything is politics :^)

Sow the thunder, reap the whirlwind

>>50044263

This sounds like an entirely gay premise that no one besides whinging females will want to play

If you're a girl I don't give a shit. I'd rather play a self insert game like DND where I can have high fantasy adventure

get the fuck out of my /tg/

>>50055484
>Passerby trollan

At least make the effort of looking at the thread, turbofag.

>>50055484
>get the fuck out of my /tg/
No.

>>50055513

No, I'm serious. Get the fuck out.

Don't look back and don't even fucking go to 4chan again. go back to tumblr or whatever reddit thread you came from to advertise your piece of shit game.

>>50055540
No.

>>50055484
>my /tg/

>>50055484
>my /tg/

>>50055324
>I'm not going to be clear, but then going to whine when people misunderstand me

>>50055420
>All these minorities complain about their issues, but clearly it's not a real problem.

>>50055455
That doesn't even make sense. In a totalitarian society you aren't even allowed politics.

>>50055484
Wow, this is like...
This is almost 10/10 trolling. You should have thrown in the word SJW.

>>50055607
Is it affecting me or people I care about? No? Then it's not a real problem.

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>>50055607
I was clear, and fuck you once again for your deliberate misreading. But hey, what the fuck do I expect arguing with a slacktivist of all things.

>>50055639
No you weren't. You're bitching that problems you don't care about aren't real problems, while stating that anyone who cares about them doesn't also care about other things.

>>50055628
You must feel so special :^)

>>50055674
Hahaha, fuck you.

>>50055607
>That doesn't even make sense. In a totalitarian society you aren't even allowed politics.

When you actively bring your politics into every aspect of your life, don't be surprised when others start doing the same.

>>50055540
If you're playing a Monsterhearts game, and you're playing it in any other way than the most played up tongue and cheek way possible, you're doing it squarely wrong.

>>50055484
>whinging
Don't you have to help get your wife ready for her date, Brittyboy?

>Good lord we're talking about Marxism

Marxism didn't work anywhere, stop basing your entire philosophy on this. It was a terrible idea by a pampered idealist who can't see how easily his own ideology was undermined by anyone with actual ambition and the will to kill people for power.

>>50052473

I'm sure they actually care. It's not their fault that their method of making it work is ineffectual at best and contributing to larger problems at worst.

Well actually I guess it -is- their fault, but they're idiots and won't improve that.

>>50057647
I don't think you understand what Marxism is.

>>50056629
I mean, the game even instructs you to read your Skins out in the most overdramatic voice you can. It's a game about heavy themes but that doesn't mean it isn't aware how silly the core concept is.

>>50057874
So brave. Defend your statement

>>50056629
>>50057986
>It's a game about heavy themes but that doesn't mean it isn't aware how silly the core concept is.
this seems to be the case, I've never known a monsterhearts group who didn't joke around about the angsty stuff in the game, even the roll20 one-shot of it has them making jokes about their characters and clearly playing it over the top

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>>50057986
>I don't think you understand what Marxism is.
A bunch of bullshit that assumes that putting "oppressed" people above their "oppressors" won't end in fucking disaster. Like how Zimbabwe reprocessed farms the white "oppressors" only to have their economy go in the fucking toilet.

My usual group has been playing Monsterhearts for ~6 sessions now. I don't personally like the World system that much, but MH is a solid implementation of it and we've had some fuckin' fun scenes;

-The ghoul being bullied to feed on the bullies fear, then stalking and murdering him
-My mortal being alternately sweet and creepy in his obsession with the Witch
-Giant snakes under the PNW Island the game is set on.
-The Witch stealing a car and starting a police manhunt after fucking the Mortal and triggering her darkest self.

I'm not doing the actual events justice, obviously. I was skeptical, but the core elements are solid - like the tropes from Twilight aren't shit - teen vampires and werewolves have tons of fucked up story potential.

And nice to see the usual muh-masculin-fee-fees squealing about a game that features sex and teenagers having a content warning on it. Oh no, trigger warnings! Can't just skim over that shit, better bitch about it on the internet.

>>50058838
>And nice to see the usual muh-masculin-fee-fees squealing about a game that features sex and teenagers having a content warning on it. Oh no, trigger warnings! Can't just skim over that shit, better bitch about it on the internet.

In that case I can just read Mein Kampf as a the life and times of a leader under pressure, or MYFAROG as love letter to European Mythic Fantasy.

>>50059036

Your comparison sucks.

You're telling me I shouldn't go see a movie because its got an MPAA rating in front of it.

Hie thee back to /r9k/

>>50059155
>A trigger warning is just like a movie rating
One is required by a stupid law. Another is made up by idiotic college kids so they can bitch when they aren't warned about experiencing normal aspects of life.

>>50044681
Another big change is that stats are no longer marked to gain XP. Instead you gain experience through failures.

Ghost and Ghoul have been reworked, Safe Hearts is included in the main text. Which is a guide on how to approach the game and the issues that arise in a respectful manner. Along with teh reworkings and tweaks of skins, strings and moves. I'd say more a refinement than a moneygrab.