>What's the BBEG's motivation >He's crazy lol

>>50037450
>whats OP's motivation
>He's a shitposter lol

>>50037450
>what's the BBEG's motivation
>he was a purehearted, tortured soul who was brought down the wrong path in his mission to save the world
this is far worse

>>50037661

Yes, this is far, far worse. GM, I don't want to sympathize with the villain: We're here to kill him. Don't get upset when we laugh at him before we kill him, because he's the bad guy!

Like, what, you want us to take him seriously? Fuck that, I'm going to mock him as I kill him. I'm not going to let your self-insert have more plot relevance than he deserves.

>>50037700

Hey, it's the same when you toil away night and day to give them a good plot, and then you realize that these overly serious people just want to unwind and fuck around during the session.

Feels bad man.

Mourn Old Yeller after the rabid animal is put down.
But put them down.

>>50037710

Well, yeah. I do everything I can to be cruel to the BBEG before I kill him. Like, he's already on the wrong side of history, and he's going to die: I'm going to make sure he dies without dignity.

>>50037721
>>50037700

...boy do you have issues you need to work out.

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>>50037721
>Wrong side of history

>>50037721

I'll put you in the "endless combat" group, If I'd ever Dm with you.

Hope you like 4e.

>>50037710
>Hey, it's the same when you toil away night and day to give them a good plot

Railroad them, you mean.

Fuck off, you're not a novel writer, you're in the game because you need to judge how the world reacts to PCs. You provide entertainment, and you're only here because we haven't figured out how to replace GM with computer yet.

So shove your complicated plots and description of fuckoff forests, shit shoals and crappy cities up your ass and give PCs what they want.

>>50037724

Sometimes, it's impossible not to see the link. When the GM is bespectacled, socially shy and considers himself and intellectual, while the main villain is bespectacled, socially shy until he became an ubermensch when his sorcerer powers developed and now uses them to Charm woman and build an army of loyal followers, I can put two and two together. Obviously, the DM is inserting himself into this guy, to make him all tragically noble and misunderstood.

This is why I made sure he died squealing like a pig, because I wanted to see the GM's dreams die right in front of him. When I told the villain to 'Get fucked, faggot, why don't you eat shit and die?' you could see his face crumble.

I've played in enough RPGs to know how to 'steer' the plot slightly, and it's an important skill. I want the DM, personally, to know that the jig is up.

>>50037740
>>50037741
You are both assholes.

>>50037758
>t. Entitled GM

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>>50037741
Jesus please be b8

>>50037758

It brings me an endless amount of satisfaction. Like, when the BBEG's waifu went "He's a good man, that's why I fled my home to bear his child. Please understand...He only means well. In his heart, he means well" I didn't go "Oh, I understand."

I went "WHORE!" and hit her in the face with a mailed fist. I knew the GM was getting off on this, and I wasn't going to let him have the story of a heroically tormented sorcerer-king like Raistilin. No, the story is going to be "A jumped-up little shit was killed by a band of heroes."

>>50037741
And when the villain dooms the world right before killing himself, laughing his heart out the entire time, will you be willing to handle the shame of having your kill stolen?

>>50037741
Fucking hell you'd be a good BBEG

>>50037450
I refer you to Wakfu, where this was indeed the case and he made a compelling villain whom you could truly feel for in the end.

>>50037782

To be fair, I'm not stupid. I only did the humiliation thing *after* we beat the shit out of him. DMs are less likely to go 'rocks fall, everyone dies' out of sheer spite when it's clear that you've won - no takebacks - and it's too late to pull off a last-minute save.

>>50037781
Actually, the story will be "A group of jumped-up little shits were killed by their own stupidity".

>>50037761
GM is a title.

>You entitled entitled.

You could volunteer to GM. Maybe he would enjoy fucking your shit up for variety.

>>50037792
Nox had a solid motivation though. He wasn't just doing shit because "lol so ~crazy~". He was trying to save his dead family. The fact that his methods were monstrous is what made him a villain.

>>50037812

This is why you tell him, before you kill him:

> "You'll never see them again, because you're going to Hell. You'll rot forever, and you know what they're feeling right now, as they watch you from Heaven? Shame."

>>50037740
Not all the plot is railroading, and definitely, the GM is not a fucking service just so you can live your power fantasy. He's there to have fun, just as you are, so stop being a dick to the person that's pulling most of the work to provide with entertainment. If you have a railroading GM talk with him instead of being a cunt.

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>>50037818
Or you could go with the tl;dr version and save time

psssh.....nuthin personnel....kid.

>>50037800
>"Hey GM, where's John?"
>"Oh, I asked him not to come to these sessions anymore, after the drama he caused last time. Now, let's pick up where we left off..."

>>50037790
Edit the comment a bit and you have a great pre-fight monologue

>>50037741
Literally the right approach. When I sense that BBEG is DM's self insert, gloves are off.

>>50037830

End of the campaign, man.

You see, you can't just 'pull these things out' abruptly. You have to carefully build towards it. You have to be a team player, the guy who helps arrange sessions, gets everyone around the table, listen intently to the lore and so on.

It's only at the VERY end when all the kicking is done, that shit goes down. Disruptive players are players who kill the King in the first session: Clever players are the one who gets everyone, secretly, to go "Okay, the king is an asshole. When we get back to the palace, right after he gives us the quest reward, we jump him and kill him, all right?"

Or - "All right, we all hate the orcs. Let's quietly wait for the peace conference to happen, THEN we'll slaughter everyone."

That's when everything goes in an ugly new direction, and no-one expects it! The campaign is now marching to the beat of a new drum, and it's amazing.

>>50037848
>That's when everything goes in an ugly new direction, and no-one expects it! The campaign is now marching to the beat of a new drum, and it's amazing.

Or the GM quits and the game dies, because you were a passive-aggressive asshole who couldn't just air your grievances with the GM out of the game like a fucking adult.

>>50037823
>He's there to have fun, just as you are
Here's when it's important to remind you that Player fun > GM's fun. If GM isn't having fun, he can just throw some encounters and it's still will be at least mildly amusing. if players aren't having fun, they disappear and GM is left alone, masturbating over his shitty fantasy novel.

>>50037858

Again, it's the end of the game. Even if you quit, it's still a satisfying finale. Also, high-level PCs are physical gods, and can do a lot more damage than low-level PCs can.

I've seen player revolts before, and they can be devastating. I played in a Mage: The Ascension campaign before where the DM had us firmly on the railroad the entire time, and at one point...The party just snapped. When we were cornered by the MIB, all hell broke loose.

The Celestrial Chorister summoned angels to bring helicopters down, the Hermetic mage started throwing fireballs to blow up police cars, the Euthantos literally aged targets to death, and the result was a giant: Fuck this shit, let's do this.

It was the highlight of the entire campaign, which so far had consisted of shuttling between NPCs who inevitably betrayed us.

>>50037846
Because fuck the DM, right ?

The players can self-insert but when the DM is doing it ? Fuck him !

I admit that some DMPCs are retarded, but as long as they don't disrupt too much the pacing or the BBEG got an everything-proof shield, why is it such a problem ?

>>50037869
GMs are people too

You fucking insufferable cunt

>>50037700
I would love for you to do that in my game.

The BBEG is based on a crook who sent anonymous threats to my parents when I was younger. At least in fantasy, my players will give me vengeance

>>50037869
Well, the GM can go find other players who aren't expecting him to be slaving for their well-being.

But, hey, GMs have to work, to buy the books and to prepare the campaigns, and for the good GMs, adapt it to the players. The players just have to do a character sheet and roll some dices.

The least you can do for your GM is telling him to find other players, because you seems to be an asshole.

>>50037869
You can play with less players. You can't play without GM. The fun the whole group is having is as important as the GMs fun. But a single player's fun is less important that the GMs. A single players is not hard to replace, a GM is. And I don't really know a single GM that derives amusement from combat alone.

Have you considered that -maybe- other players enjoy stuff different than you? Same with GMs. Hell GMs that go full novel usually are just misguided and genuinely think they are providing the best entertainment they can that way. If you disagree, you talk with them, not crush everything because wow you suck. That's being a passive aggressive cunt, and an ingrate to boot, GMing, -every- kind of GMing, takes effort, you know.

>>50037891
Yes. Fuck him in the ass, in his throat, fuck him with twelve inch black cocks and Bad Dragon dildos.
DMs who self insert into their campaigns - especially as bad guys - should not be allowed to DM. Ever.
> inb4 all DMs do it
No, only your and your autistic brethren does. I DM all the time, but I never do it. Because I have pride and dignity.

>>50037898
GMing is a responsibility, including responsibility to be an arbitrator and not a SUPREME GOD OVER THE WHOLE SETTING NOW WATCH ME WANK. If players are engaged and having fun, THEN he may ask them to follow some plot hook. If they are not interested, he should back off and present them with different plot. If at any moment in campaign players aren't able to make their decisions on where campaign should go, the campaign risks becoming GM's self-indulgent railroad.

>>50037924
What gave you the idea that self-inserting was the norm?

>>50037923
>If you disagree, you talk with them, not crush everything because wow you suck.

No. You crush everything, THEN you talk to them on how much they suck.

>>50037932
>GMing is a responsibility.
No, it's a favor. You're not entitled to have a GM at all, much less to have one that makes his life's mission to pamper and coddle your tastes. Be a little thankful to your GM's work sometimes you entitled cunt.

>>50037941
The amount of retards acting as apologists in this thread.

>>50037945
So between fixing it and everyone having fun, and completely crushing the dude that has been working his ass off to provide entertainment, even if misguided, you chose the latter. I hope this is bate because you are fucking terrible otherwise.

>>50037885
>shit_that_didn't_happen.txt

Yes, yes, we're all impressed by how clever you think you'd be if you were presented with a railroading GM. Bravo. I'm sure everyone stood up and clapped when you showed that Mage ST what-for. Well done.

>>50037960
The only retard I see here is your sorry ass sperging out

>>50037945
That's pretty juvenile to be honest familia

>>50037953
No, it's a favor to him that we all read literal hundreds of paragrphs on his shitty setting. Now we're in the setting, and we're movers and shakers in this world that was designed solely for our amusement. Settings are worthless without players.

>>50037979

Confirmed for someone who's never actually played Mage.

>>50037953
> Waaaaaah, people don't like muh novel and muh redpilled darklord with his brainwashed Stacey, who showed all the Chads who abused him in childhood
Why don't you fucking hang yourself right about now, you mouth breathing nigger?

>>50037986
Players are worthless without a GM, as much as you'd like to think otherwise

>>50037972
Mollycoddling the GM is the worst think you can do. Don't give half-assed "well, that was good, but that needs more attention, and that needs less...". It's gay and stupid.

You suck.
Your setting sucks.
Your intrigue sucks.
Your combat is boring.
Read more, learn more and do better.

>>50037986
If he gave you "hundreds" of paragraphs to read as you put it, it's not optimal at all. But it doesn't justify you being a massive asshole.

Also, Players are worthless without a GM. And players are really easy to replace compared to GMs.

>>50037999
You are under no obligation to like it, but respectfully talking with your GM about it is a much better option that "showing him".

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>>50037986
pic related
>>50037450
>What the BBEG
>Don't have one lol
All the campaigns I've been in have never actually had a proper BBEG, apart from this one dragon in a DnD that never really went anywhere and got twatted by an angel-thing.

>>50037792
Yeah, Nox was a pretty sweet villain. I'd like that in my campaigns

>>50038007
>You suck.
>Your setting sucks.
>Your intrigue sucks.
>Read more, learn more and do better
Meaningless and useless insults.

>Your combat is boring.
Actual criticism

If you're gonna be a criticizing faggot, git gud

>>50038007
Yes, while I agree with that thought, you can tell the GM during the campaign and not crushing his whole work after. That's not teaching them how to improve or giving feedback, that's being an abusive cunt.

Also, is this whole thread just two people dicksmacking each-other over stupid bait?

Fuck's sakes, why does this have to be updating constantly but nothing in the ST/SW generals.

>>50038015
I hope that in the next game you'll have a more memorable villain

>>50038007
Friendly reminder to all that this sperglord's entire rant started with the assumption that any villain with a tragic past is ALWAYS the GM self-inserting into the story: >>50037700

There's only one person projecting here, and it sure as hell isn't the GM.

>>50038036
Thank you kind anon.
>>50038041
It was bait and some unwitting fool bit onto it and turned it into a full spergwar. There were only 3 survivors.

>>50038041
I'm actually the different guy, although i agree with that "sperglord" as you called him.

BBEG masturbation is as sad as setting masturbation. BBEGs exist for slaying. Settings exist for players' fuckery. Anything else is self-indulgence.

>>50038029
I count two on both sides.

>>50037741
You must be fun at the table. Do you also describe how you gut the BBEG in great detail while stroking yourself under the table?

>>50038029

It's easier to bitch than to produce lasting content. And considering we have at least two anons that have been burned by opposite sides of the PC fun vs GM fun debate, there is going to be a lot of batching.

If you want those threads to update, you better start providing them with content. Be the change you want to be anon.

>>50038078

Actually, I kicked him to death. Gutting would've been too dignified.

>>50037741
>Going out of your way to make it less fun for the one guy who is actually indispensable to the campaign.

It's a good thing that this story never actually happened and you are a bitch in real life so you don't get to ruin everyone's fun with your self righteous bullshit.

>>50037792
I think that the key there is that Nox was not some kind of well-meaning pseudovillain, he was actually a monster. The fact that he was a victim doesn't detract from the evil of his actions, or justify them, it only informs them.

>>50038113

Oh, come on. You mean you've never done this, ever? Like when the GM is on a white-guilt or Warcraft kick, and you keep running into noble orcs fighting against the cruel human oppression?

Or when your GM is an atheist, and the goal is to rebel against the corrupt and evil monolithic Church, who are all cackling caricatures? Or when you meet the liberal rebels fighting against the fascist government?

You've seen that all the time, if you've gamed regularly. I have seen it all, and I'm jaded enough to be tired of that shit. I'm here to show my party that yes, there's another way.

>>50037924
Yes, lots of dignity. Your salivation over inter-racial manrape is very dignified. I'm sure you're masturbating to the thought with your pinkie extended.

>>50038139
I feel like you've never actually played a...
>>50038149
>I'm sure you're masturbating to the thought with your pinkie extended.
Saved.
>>50038139
I feel like you've never actually played an RPG and are just saying this to try and be cool and hip and down with da grogz.

I think what we have here is a case of the bad GMs. I don't think ruining the campaign is the best way to go about it, you just end up having the least amount of fun for the group. The players aren't having fun with the campaign, and the GM isn't going to have fun watching the campaign falling apart.

I believe if it gets to the point of open player rebellion, both sides should just make an effort to meet in the middle and talk about what exactly they want in a campaign/GM like reasonable adults.

But I'm only operating under the assumption that the anon in question isn't being disingenuous or misconstruing the facts.

>>50038139

How long do your playgroups survive though?

Like sure you get to shit on the GM's dreams in a blaze of glory, but then what?

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>>50037924
>DMs who self insert into their campaig
>implying the DM doesn't self insert into ALL of the NPCs to a certain degree
I have bad new for you anon

>>50038175

Well, the campaign ends with a different conclusion, obviously. How many of your campaigns actually end? At least this way, there's an ENDING.

>>50037741
There's nothing wrong with what this poster did, I fail to see the problem. And I say this as someone who's been the GM for over 3 years now.

>>50038139
Sorry, no. I'm more concerned over whether the setting is satisfying and well explained, the combat engaging, and the interactions amusing.

I don't really CARE what the GM's political or theological opinions are so long as he's doing his fucking job. I'm just as happy to smash corrupt churches as I am to crush heretical fanatics or the Dread Fedoralord of the Euphoric Empire.

Take the stick out of your ass.

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>>50038029
Well, here's my two cents:

>>50037741
>When I told the villain to 'Get fucked, faggot, why don't you eat shit and die?' you could see his face crumble.
If the GM can't handle the PCs forming their own opinions about the BBEG or hating the antagonist despite his backstory, he deserves whatever suffering he gets.

>>50037781
>I went "WHORE!" and hit her in the face with a mailed fist.
If the players openly act like assholes to sympathetic npcs or otherwise fight the tone of the game because they don't like where they think things are going, especially for meta reasons, then they can leave the game with no loss.

Fuck both sides of this fight.
It's like watching two groups passionately fight tug-of-war with a giant turd.
Y'all just waste everyone's time getting shit allover yourselves and the whole thread, and nobody wins.

>>50038139
>baiting at the speed of sound
either that's real and you're an horrible person, or you're an troll and a massive faggot
But since you keep replying expecting some kind of support, I'm going to say the first one

>>50038199

This is real all right. My University group has to deal with a lot of this bullshit that keeps being forced into games. That Anon has a depressingly realistic view of what modern gaming is like when the DM's on his soapbox.

>>50038212
Well then I feel for you. Honestly do.

I just count myself lucky my GM takes criticism well.

>>50038069
Frankly, the entire idea behind TTRPGs is mostly self-indulgence anyways, so thats a rather moot point. You are there to indulge in a fantasy that you would otherwise never be able to live or experience on your own.

whether its a power trip or setting wank, at the end of the day, its still self indulgence. Ain't nothin wrong with that though, so long as you rein it in when you need to.

The BBEG started creating patterns which demonstrate the reality of karma through sacrifice and disappointment.

>>50037450
Crazy BBEGs can work, so long as their craziness is consistent. Whatever it is that gives the character a distorted view of the world, and which leads to distorted priorities and goals (that put them in conflict with the PCs) needs to be internally consistent. That is, it needs to make sense if looked at from inside their own head.

For example, if the villain has schizophrenia, they might frequently hallucinate, hearing whispers or seeing shapes moving inside the walls. Whatever this leads them to do (i.e. thinking that demons are whispering offers of power, or that their enemies have sent monsters to try and kill them) needs to stay consistent. They're not going to run around slapping people with a fish, but they might just order a town to be massacred because they thought it was harbouring a nest of wall-monsters.

The other side of this is the simple fact that sometimes, you don't need to give the BBEG any form of clinical insanity to make them do terrible things. They might just be a sadist, and get off on watching people suffer. They might be incredibly conceited, and think the terrible things they're doing are okay since they're ones doing it, or because they're being done to [insert group]. Anything could work, so long as it's consistent.

The tricky part is figuring out why anyone would serve such a BBEG in the first place. That's not a problem if their minions are zombies or robots or something, but if they're living, sapient individuals, then the BBEG really needs something those people could want, or have some quality that makes people want to serve them. They might be rich, they might have promised wealth (or immaterial rewards like a good afterlife), they might be charismatic enough to sway a crowd into supporting their cause, etc. There needs to be something, or else the villain's minions will just seem like idiots.

Just some stuff to keep in mind when designing a BBEG.

>>50038139
the fuck kind of nutters are you playing with
are you literally just going into like, a crack den with some books under your arm, screaming 'LET'S D&D, AND NONE OF THAT MORALLY GRAY SHIT THIS TIME' at the top of your lungs?

over these long, shitty years i've been in a fair few groups, and i've never been in or even heard of a group this bad from anyone in-person.
i'd be convinced /tg/ just makes every one of these stories up but i suppose at least one of them might be true - the idea has to come from somewhere, after all, but the problem is where? seriously is there a factory in some corner of america that produces these groups or something?

i haven't even seen this shit joining groups on roll20.
am i just lucky? is some god watching me, saying 'the worst group you'll ever get is mediocre and disinterested and disbands within the week'? are you fucks shitposting from literal hell?
how many of you are actually dead, be honest.

>>50038186
he said playgroups, not campaigns.
do you actually have anything resembling a group?

>>50038305

Yes, I regularly play at a Comics-Mart in Sydney once or twice a week, since I'm still on my attachment.

>>50038163
He's spinning a yarn and baiting at the speed of sound. Everything he's said is in at least one way disingenuous or misconstrued. It isn't about the GM being bad, its that he's the most basic bitch dungeon crasher and just wants to hit things and will fuck up everything else if that isn't happening.

Recently, one of my players started accosting basically anyone for no reason at all. Started bitching out the captain of the boat they were supposed to take. Bitched at the group. Manhandled a young girl the rest of the group was fond of.

In 2 out of 3 of those cases, the player got manhandled back. Once by sailors that threw the person into the water. The other by one of the other party members.

When people are acting like self-entitled twats, it just means they aren't having fun or aren't interested, at least some of the time. i would say at least half of the time, the actual story, setting, or anything else don't even matter in the equation. They are an excuse. Its at this point that as a DM you should either politely attempt to fix this, or just have them exit the game. There are plenty of groups that do one off dungeon crasher stories, no need to fuck up one thats trying to do a legit campaign.

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>DM makes the established church a BBEG
>"he's just an atheist loser trying to make his views seem good!"

>DM makes atheist a BBEG
>"He just hates atheists because he has delusions about gods!"

>DM makes king a BBEG
>"He's just an edgy anti-establishment anarchist!"

>DM makes democratic group a BBEG
>"He's a fascist!"

>DM makes aristocrat a BBEG
>"He's a fucking commie!"

>DM makes commoner a BBEG
>"He's a disgusting bourgeoisie!"

>DM makes BBEG look like himself
>"He's self-inserting!"

>DM makes BBEG look different from himself
>"He hates people who aren't him!"

>DM makes BBEG an old man
>"He has daddy issues!"

>DM makes BBEG a little girl
>"He's a pedophile!"

etc etc

>>50038346

As a DM, I make BBEGs whom the players want to kill. Like, this guy is such an asshole that I'm on your side, I want the motherfucker to die, too.

>>50038346
>DM doesn't make a BBEG
>"he's just a subversive hipster!"

>>50038303
Eloquently put, my nigga

>>50038346
>Caring this much about what the whiny bitches in the group say

Yes, ok, the BBEG is a self insert. Now roll for initiative.

>>50038346
I had someone throw a fit because of the following two things.

1: An albino who turned out to be black
2: A female antagonist

Nevermind all the references and implications of rape, slavery, murder, infanicide, backstabbing, the majority of children being orphans, human trafficking, drug trade, and the law being based on "Whatever gang has the most presence today".

But nooooo I was "misogynistic" and "whitewashing".

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>>50038305
>are you fucks shitposting from literal hell?

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>>50037450
Did you know how this would end when you started it?

>>50038197
Thoroughly agree. Different things work for different groups. If I was Guy's DM I would ask him politely to stop. If he continued I'd Rocks Fall him and boot him from the group so everyone else can enjoy the fucking game without some whiny little shitlord Bawwing because he doesn't like the BBEG.

On the flipside, if the entire group was dissatisfied, I would take a step back and re-evaluate what I'm doing.

But one guy? If its just one guy ruining it for everyone he's a tryhard cunt and deserves to have the last sliver of his miserable social life obliterated so he can focus on his superior Vidya.

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>BBEG is just doing what's in it's nature to survive and sustain itself

>>50038305

Been in one of those groups, and believe you me it's fucking shit when you let the leftists and sjws have a shot at the helm. I didn't think they actually existed, turns out they fucking do.

It's like how, last time, the freaks would just play WoD or Vampire and be edgy in it. Now, the new 'being edgy' is shoehorning in liberal left shit.

>>50038401
Then the party is in the right to kill it's ass

>>50038379
i don't understand how anyone can respond to this in any other way than calmly wait for them to finish, ask if they are done, and then ask for initiative.

The best way to deal with this kind of people is to make understand that you don't care what they think

>>50038401

Would you say it's following...The Rules of Nature?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FmC35GIOk

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>>50038423

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>>50038423
Please never try to be funny again

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>>50038423

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>>50038423
Anon, just no.

>>50037740
Entitled child with no concept of other people's enjoyment.

A sign of autism. Fucking tiger-stripe ice cream.

>>50038423
Good.. good
You amuse me

>>50038069
>Writing a character instead of a plot device is BBEG wanking

Okay.

>>50037450
I agree, the Joker is a shit villain.

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>>50038423
This is acceptable.

>>50037741
>BBEG is a DM self-insert

ITT: shit that never happened.
If the GM is going to self-insert, you're in for a ride in GMPC's magical train where you're useless all of the time.
Be more believable next time, anon. That bait as almost good enough.

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>>50038423
>>50038534
>>50038556
>that samefagging

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>>50038423
Nah, bruh.

Nah.

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>>50038564
I didn't really like the pun, I just wanted an excuse to use the meme.

>>50038602
>you might like
Oh jesus why does it eat half your screen.

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>>50038139
Alright, sperglord, spin us a decent BBEG that you'd like to run a campaign against.
C'mon, be in-depth, tell /tg/ exactly how you'd fix this instead of throwing an in-game temper tantrum.

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>>50038564
Sure thing bruv

>>50038120
It's worth noting that Nox was under no illusions about this. He freely admits that what he's done is terrible, all because he assumes that once he completes his plan, none of that will matter because everything he did would be undone.

>>50038630
Mobile is cancer friend, but how else can I shitpost from work?

>>50038659
Work somewhere that lets you shitpost from your desk my nigga.

>>50037774
Its too long to be bait. It's too close to the topic to be pasta.

ITS REAL, JIMMY, ITS REAL

>>50037782
Maan, vapeduck was such a shit. Was good to see him screwed over.

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>>50038693
>to long to be bait

You underestimate the dedication of a master baitsman

>>50038558
He's riding full henderson, and falling into the same blatant mistake henderson did: the GM.

"Lol we were supposed to spare the self-insert BBEG and then I kill him instead" ain't gonna happen - any self-insert is gonna have be quite able to continue at that moment of planned unification.

Although "I slap an NPC trying to elicit sympathy for the BBEG" may be true - that IS a helpless NPC there.
However, given how that's jumping the gun on holding BBEG in contempt, it certainly look like that incident is as far as it got and the further revenge fantasy is just a fantasy.

>>50038701
Vapeduck?

>>50038641
>all because he assumes that once he completes his plan, none of that will matter because everything he did would be undone.
That doesn't earn him morality points tho.
He outright says after that, "and if it doesn't work then I don't care".

>>50038302
>The BBEG started creating patterns which demonstrate the reality of karma through sacrifice and disappointment.
>sacrifice and disappointment
He's carving loss?

>>50038849
He doesn't care because his mission in life failed and he's as good as dead regardless.

Again, no morality points, but at the end of the day he's not exactly evil. You may not sympathize with what he did, but you can at least understand the viewpoint of why he did it, which is the point. Whether you choose to lop off his head or force him in some way to atone for his sins with geas or quest or some shit, thats up to you.

>>50038630
It's not actually half the screen, it's just bottom of the page.

Only the halfopaque white bar with the close button is moving everywhere and that can be closed.

>>50038746
>master baitsman
If he types more shit than the ones baited, he's an abject of failure of the bait crafting.

>>50038835
Situation described in
>And when the villain dooms the world right before killing himself, laughing his heart out the entire time, will you be willing to handle the shame of having your kill stolen?
is part of the ending to puppetshow/anime Thunderbolt Fantasy, with one character, whom the /a/ refers to as vapeduck because he's constantly smoking an elaborate, having trolled the BBEG to absolute buttroasting. BBEG then proceeds to do the doom the world thing and die laughing, the troll is successfully counter-trolled.

>>50038937
*constantly smoking an elaborate pipe

>>50038907
He ranted about not caring before it failed though.

So basically, he just didn't care about all the others lives either way.

And sure I understand why he did it, but he's still quite sociopathic.

>>50038953
No, you missed my point. If he succeeded, he succeeded. Everything is right. If he didn't, regardless of how he didn't succeed, he didn't, and was still essentially a deadman. whether he failed halfway as a result of the party, or his plan simply didn't work, he has failed and understands that. Its easy not to care when you know you will die regardless of how you fail. Thus, if he succeeds, everything is right. If he doesn't, he's probably dead. he wouldn't have the ability to care at that point.

Its a situation where the villain can easily see the issues with their reasoning, but its all they have. They hope for the best, and understand it probably won't happen. Its simple to turn an "If/when" statement into a hard statement of the persons emotions, but that doesn't make it correct, by itself

which is why i brought up things like geas/quest, and forcing him to atone for what he did, not allowing him the death he thought he'd get. Its a lot easier to be poetic about things than players give credit. You just gotta stop being a murderhobo and actual think about your spells and other means.

>>50037700
My latest BBEG was just a fucking lunatic wizard who was pacified through being bored for a while and hell related contracts. Once that shit ran out he just straight up nuked his homeland because he was pissed off.
Even with this high power party who thinks they're hot shit he can not be bothered to give a fuck about them, and I've made it known. When they tried to catch him he just teleported out while the face was doing a monologue to him. Second time they found him he only bothered when the gunslinger actually managed to hit him. That just ended with their base of operations going up in flames along with most of their stored gold and investments. Then he just kept on going, fucking up the world.

They properly hate this motherfucker now, not because he's evil but because he's the one NPC who does not even acknowledge them as minor threats. The perfect BBEG.

>>50038953
It's worth noting that by then, he'd been doing evil shit for over 200 years in service to this goal, and at the end he was more or less literally an empty shell of a human being. His body is just dust, held together by clockwork, mummy wrappings, and determination.

When his plan fails, he finally gives in to despair and just falls apart. The final shot of the ceiling is just his collapsed, empty armor sitting in a pile of dust on his wife's grave.

>>50037740

Pure autism. Not all players hate anything that involves them to think about things beyond the numbers on their character sheets.

>>50039090
>Ceiling

Series. What the fuck.

>>50039112
Didn't say anythng about numbers, just the world.

The game exists for the PCs, not the other way around. If players want to murderhobo, that's what GM should provide. If the players decide to follow the plot, that's what GM should provide. If the players decide that plot is boring, GM should think up a new plot or let players to just go murderhobo again.

>>50039145
No. If I don't want to run murderhobos, the players can fuck off and I'll find others.

>>50039145
Yeah, but the entire premise of the majority of the arguments only posits one "Player" and one "GM". It says nothing for the rest of the group, who's time you are currently wasting.

>>50039145
If the players refuse to explain what they want to do, what should the GM do?

>>50038907
>Again, no morality points, but at the end of the day he's not exactly evil.
I haven't seen it, so I'm not sure what he did, but if he did evil things but didn't care if they were undone if he failed, he's still evil. He's just evil with understandable motivations. Hell, he'd get some evil on his soul if his plan had worked perfectly and all his evil acts were undone, just for the intent.

>>50039163
Poke and probe until he finds something players latch on to.

>>50039177
Fair enough, but i was saying that the point of view that if it failed, he was dead anyways and his caring wouldn't do anything at that point would make one rather apathetic.

Again, not a great person by any means. I'm just saying its a valid viewpoint.

>>50037740
>we haven't figured out how to replace GM with computer yet.
hehe, he doesn't know

>>50039191
Agreed. Very pragmatic viewpoint of a villain.

>>50039029
>They properly hate this motherfucker now, not because he's evil but because he's the one NPC who does not even acknowledge them as minor threats.
Best /tg/ villain since Sheldon the Shy or whatever his name was.

>>50039145
>Please keep taking my bait, I'm so boring- I mean, bored.

>>50039145
>players thinking they have any power

The role of the GM is a benevolent tyrant.

>>50039219
You talking bout the one asshole halfling or whatever i was that was responsible for basically every great natural disaster or large armed conflict in the world without getting directly involved himself, that the party basically made their mission to track down and kill?

>>50039178
>"Ok they aren't enjoying my campaign, maybe I should ask them..."
>"NUH UH IDK JUST FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELF."

If they won't tell you the problem, you probably should drop them then and there.

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>>50038149
You don't make sure your pinky is extended? Savage.

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>>50039322
>>50038149
>mfw dumb americans think extended pinky is the epitome of class
>while in reality it was the epitome of retarded tryhardness

>>50039254
That kept slipping away, yeah.

>>50039411
That was a story, man. I wonder if anyone compiled that into one image, or if i read it as one to start with.

>>50039367
I find that the extended pinky works well as a natural counterweight to some beverages and cups.
So go fuck your grandmother with a rusty trowel.

>>50039029
>The wizard has high INT but won't bother obliterating the party, even though there is the chance that they get strong enough to just fuck him up.

I'll take things that didn't happen for 499 Alex

>>50039145
The player entitlement is strong in this one

>>50039474
Intelligence does not protect from Pride

>>50039367
>not recognizing the spongbob meme

>>50039443
Shoggy's storytimes are based af

>>50039474
But that would be WIS. I thought INT was just book smarts.

Granted you aren't wrong.

>>50038139
Watch out its an Anon with a messiah complex. God's gift to gaming.

>>50038303
Idea: Bad guy that has trouble noticing or seeing people right in front of him, but notices the rouge sneaking off as THE GHOST !

First it's with tropes, knight defeats big evil guy, then it's anti-tropes, where the knight must defeat a guy who might not be a complete asshole for no reason, and now we're hitting anti-anti-tropes, where you want something to be just like the trope because you hate anti-tropes.

>>50038305
I died in the passing of the threshold Caines and have served in purgatory ever since. It is a lonely existence but fulfilling in a way that pleases the divine so I must bare it

>>50037898
Players are people too

>>50037999
Now that's projection.

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>>50037999
>autist complain about other autists
the circle of shit is complete

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>corruption

>>50037920
>The BBEG is based on a crook who sent anonymous threats to my parents when I was younger. At least in fantasy, my players will give me vengeance

win win for everyone involved, nice job anon.

>>50038634

For a start, he's black and a Muslim.

>>50037808
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
adjective: entitled
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"

>>50039474
much more believable that the preceding

>>50037661
This is worse when the GM drinks the kool aid. Well intentioned extremists written from a perspective where the writer acknowledges that their ends probably don't justify the means is fine.

It's like writing a well intentioned extremist PC. If the player drinks their own kool aid, they're fucking annoying. If they can take a step back and laugh at their own mental gymnastics, it usually turns out really well.

>>50038746

Master Baiters are crafty ones.

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>>50037450
This is why I like lovecraftian BBEG's. They're far gone to a point where it's nigh impossible to understand how they work. I don't want a BBEG to be a point of sympathy. They need to be terrifying and powerful, or in liege with these kinds of powers. There needs to be a reason we don't have an army just steamrolling the evil wizards tower. If the BBEG is horrifying to the point that only a group of incredibly brave or foolish heroes will even attempt to go against them, I think it's a good feeling for the players. It makes them feel like they really are part of the story, since they seem to be the only ones able to face down this horrible thing.

>>50038007
Naw dude. I think you are the one who sucks. Do you have friends? Are they shitters too?

>>50039940
Is there something wrong with the villain having a reasonable motivation or something sympathetic about them? PCs do terrible things all the time for reasons or a lack thereof. The best written villains have motivations other than just being evil. Do you want just some evil face to beat up on? Or would you rather write your own story as a player and group? Not everything has to be mindless for the players.

>>50039930
I get what you mean, but this implies that extremism is inherently bad. It's not.

>>50040118
>but this implies that extremism is inherently bad. It's not.

I'll take 'Things teenagers who haven't stopped buying into radical politics say' for ten, please.

Even if the act was justified, the inability to admit ones own faults by choosing the extreme option over the milder options means that there's been a number of failings at work. This is GOOD, this means the character has some inherent flaw.

Don't take me as a paladinfag here when I say this. But there's likely always a milder option that leads to everyone getting what they want. The issue is that the steps required to get that option usually don't reveal themselves before it's too late to take them. Hence you're going to have to compromise.

>>50040073
I can't really answer this without sounding like a complete twat. You have a point, I'll see about working on proper villain motivations.

>>50040381
>Even if the act was justified, the inability to admit ones own faults by choosing the extreme option over the milder options means that there's been a number of failings at work.
>Don't take me as a paladinfag here when I say this. But there's likely always a milder option that leads to everyone getting what they want. The issue is that the steps required to get that option usually don't reveal themselves before it's too late to take them. Hence you're going to have to compromise.

Paladins have balls, and you don't, so nobody's taking you as a Paladinfag here.

What you are is a cuck, who prefers appeasement over doing what is right.

Somebody post the screencap of "The Nice Doctrine" poisoning Christianity.

>>50040833
post it yourself, lazy faggot

>>50040860
He's asking someone else, presumably, because he doesn't have it.

>>50040381
If people saw their path as flawed and saw a more milder option as better, they wouldn't have taken the more extreme option to begin with. You're asking for some sort of weird ass extremist that has humility for his extremism. That doesnt make any sense. Why would be be an extremist then?

>>50040381
>But there's likely always a milder option that leads to everyone getting what they want.

Extremism doesn't denote exclusivity. Anarcho-socialism is an extremist ideology, but the theory behind it is that everybody gets what they want in the end.

>>50037869
Let me rephrase that for you

>If GM isn't having fun, he disappears and players are left alone, not even having a shitty fantasy novel to masturbate over
And considering players are a dime a dozen... well...

>>50039145
If the players want to do X, they should fuck right off and find a game with a GM who wants to do X

If I want to do Y, I'll GM Y. It's not like there's a shortage of players compared to GMs

All these idiots still trying to get the biggest chunk of feces.
>>50038197
>Fuck both sides of this fight.
>It's like watching two groups passionately fight tug-of-war with a giant turd.

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>>50040833

>>50037700

What I prefer is a BBEG that is 100% convinced that he is right, but there is no way for the PCs to check to be sure. They have to figure out whether what the BBEG says changes how they approach the situation entirely on his word.

I ran a campaign a while back centered around the return of a powerful figure called the Pheonix King. A fire-themed badguy, every few hundred years he wakes back up and raises an army of suits of armor filled with smoke, and a small number of ancient heroes corrupted into nigh unkillable ashen warriors. Every time he returns he goes and purges everything within reach with fire, commanding his armies from his burning throne at the heart of his capital.

This cycle has been going on for a long time, and the only reliable way to stop him is to reach his throne, past his guards and traps, and slay him. He won't stay dead, but he will return to slumber before returning in a few hundred years. If no one kills him, his armies run around smashing and burning everything they can before the Pheonix King burns out and returns to slumber naturally, but that can take years.

The players were one of many teams sent in to try and kill him, and along the way they fought Ash versions of ancient heroes sent against him in previous cycles and occasionally members of other teams they had met before. Rivals and allies alike.

[cont]

>>50039367
I bet you don't even put on air

>>50039464
I thought you tied the teabag around your pinky so that when you went to drink, it didn't go in your face.

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You know, even though this thread went to absolute fucking garbage, at least that guy who gets all angry about the term "BBEG" didn't show up.

>>50041552

When they finally reached the king, he congratulated them on their skill and power, and offered them a choice: smoke or ash.

See, the Pheonix King isn't just some random asshole. He claims he is facing an ancient evil, a force that corrupts what it touches and will someday grow strong enough to attack the world in force. His cycles are designed to burn out sources of corruption where found to prevent the evil from gaining a foothold, but more importantly he is recruiting and preparing the world for the final battle. The common folk his armies kill are turned into semi-mindless smoke warriors and added to his armies. The entire castle the players fought through is his screening process to weed out the best of the best, to select those worthy of becoming his powerful and trusted Lords of Ash, who will lead his armies in the final battle.

His attacks on the mortal world not only add to his armies, most of which slumber until the final battle, but also keep the world constantly readying itself for sieges against overwhelming armies. The strong survive, the weak are taken as smoke. And the world is one step better prepared for the day when the world will be saved or destroyed by a single battle.

The PCs, then, are given the choice of bending the knee willingly and taking their place alongside him as Ash, or fighting him and should he kill them becoming nothing more than smoke. Most cycles don't actually end with the Pheonix King being killed, he just gains enough Ash and Smoke to fulfill his quota and he goes to sleep on his own.

So the guy really is just running around murdering whole cities of people and burning the land to the ground, but he claims its for the only cause the matters. And you can't confirm whether the evil force his is preparing to fight is real. He offers no apologies or regret.

Do you take him at his word and hope you are saving the world? Or do you fight him, knowing that if he is telling the truth you are on the wrong side?

>>50041656
>On the wrong side
Not necessarily, but the players would have to run essentially another campaign to get proper countermeasures in place in case he's telling the truth. I like the idea though.

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>>50041552
>>50041656
>A main antagonist that can't be killed
Because that works so well, doesn't it? I think I just gagged a little...

>>50037858
STOP
REPLYING
TO
OBVIOUS
BAIT

>>50037848
>Clever players are the one who gets everyone, secretly, to go "Okay, the king is an asshole. When we get back to the palace, right after he gives us the quest reward, we jump him and kill him, all right?"

I really hope you're not the faggot on roll20 the other week who actually thought this was clever.

Couple tips my friend.

1. It's not very subtle or "discrete" when you're "whispering" to everyone on a group call that I'm currently in with you guys on.
2. Just because you're pissed the campaign isn't going the way you want it to doesn't mean everyone else hates it too.

Though I'll admit I had a good chuckle at the rage when you realized after attempting to stab the King that literally no one else was trying to help you, and made no attempt to support you as the guards beat the shit out of you.

I was willing to throw you a bone and get you back into the campaign, but screaming that you'll murder the King while on the chopping block for trying to murder the King didn't really win you any points with the King.

>>50037990
No, that actually applies much more to the original anecdote.
If you didn't bust out with the 'fuck this shit' craziness in the first fucking session, you're playing the game completely wrong.

>>50037450
>He's going to Make Elves Great Again
>From a utilitarian perspective, he's doing the good thing too
>But if he succeeds, the Human kingdoms will be crushed

>>50041865
So he's the Megaman?

>>50040118
>I get what you mean, but this implies that extremism is inherently bad. It's not
Found the Jihadist

>>50041135
>Truth

>>50041537
>Mankind is inherently Evil and must be given a guiding light

>>50041768

He can be killed, he just won't stay dead forever. Killing him solves the immediate problem for everyone currently alive, its just future generations who will have to put up with his bullshit again eventually.

If the players want to find a way to make him stay dead, then if they survive the campaign they have hundreds of years to figure out a solution before he comes around again.

>>50041537
Would make for a pretty good BBEG

>>50041832
>GM doing it right

People will say anything, but when You make them put their shit on the line, they back petal hard

>It's a '/tg/ turns into a religious forum' episode
Not this shit again.

>>50037710
The secret is not to toil away night and day. Good plot doesn't need that much.

>>50042010
Don't ruin my fun Anon. I didn't spend months in the clergy just to not wage SOMEkind of crusade, I don't even care about the context anymore

>First ever game of DnD
>Big group, almost a dozen, after-school club
>DM is literally a trench coat wearing fedora who can't properly control the group
>Finally gets the club under control, starts up a powerpoint presentation of the current characters
>And the BBEG...

I'm going to take a moment just to warn you, this BBEG is a doozy. With the benefit of hindsight, I can say I probably would have left there.

>BBEG is a human artificer with godly powers
>Named 'Mortos Vivos'
>With a giant pet dragon named Ragnarok
>Is pretty much a 'better' (Read; Anime character) looking version of the DM with black and white hair, including trench coat and fedora
>Performed 'sick and twisted cybernetic experiments' on people
>Had no discernible purpose for doing so

Later on after the club actually became legitimate and had other groups, I got bored and joined another of his groups.

>Literally the same BBEG in a new world
>"He spans through every universe" was literally the explanation
>This included his fucking Dragon
>Oh, and he's actually a super ancient artificer who knows everything that's ever happened and is actually trying to save the world by conquering it

The railroading was fucking atrocious. And the cherry on top of it all was that this was apparently the first character he had ever made, and was using it as a god.

Sorry. BBEG thread triggered me. Had to vent.

>>50041832
> Not having the King catch the sword in his bare hands, stand up and let his royal cape fall away to reveal the fact that he is 6 feet fall and built like mountain, and punching the would-be assassin into the ceiling.

Ruling by Divine Right is a hell of a drug.

>>50037846
Who the fuck EVER self-inserts as the bad guy in a D&D game? Come on, this shit has never happened.

>>50038020

thing is "your combat is boring" is usually a setting/system problem. I've never had boring combat in 2e, but I've seen plenty in 3.5.

>>50042072
You reminded me of the fact that the last two kings in my previous campaign were an 11th level paladin and the final boss respectively.

>>50041768
>he doesn't seal the demon king so the next group of heroes have a chance to make a legend

>>50042077
See >>50042065

It does happen, and 99.99% of the time it ends fucking horribly.

>>50041768
>All antagoinists need to be killed violently
Is that seriously the only way you can have fun?

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>>50042211
No, but a reoccurring villain with no chance of the players stopping that shit is exactly that: bullshit. In my opinion.

>>50042077
If you want to DM well you have to self insert as all the NPCs.
The bad guy, the town major, the bar keep the players keep harassing for information etc.

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>>50037450
My current BBEG has two motivations:

1.) Make alliances with a rebel noble who he thinks stands a good chance of overthrowing the kingdom.

2.) Father a son onto a suitable noblewoman before he becomes so mutated and deformed that he becomes sterile.

Ultimately, he's doing it all for family.

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>>50042140
>Your character wants to be called an inept hero who can't even take care of a villain properly because it's going to return.

Enjoy getting shit on in the future, 'legends'

>>50042098
Eh, it can be compounded by the system. But the GM is the one running things, so his efforts could be criticized.
But you just wanted to pick on a system that you have a problem with.

>>50042236
He isn't reoccurring, if his rebirth happens in another hundred years. Your characters won't ever see him again and his threat is effectively ended when he's killed.

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>Top Tier
-Villains who just love being assholes
-Villains who lust for power and will take any approach to achieve it
-Villains who are not needlessly cruel, but will not be swayed from their end goal and their methods to reach it
-Villains who have given up on the world
-Villains who are bound by their word/code to do evil
-Villains who are just naturally evil
-Villains who are just doing what they must and have no other options
-Villains who are crazy
-Villains who want revenge or have been wrong

>Low Tier
-Villains whose goals could have been achieved through non-villainous means, but they did what they did anyway and are presented as being right after their death/defeat

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>>50037792
And then in season 2 they went in the complete opposite direction and made a villain who wasn't morally complex in the slightest, but still extremely well-characterised.

'You don't understand my curse! It's terrible to have an eternal memory and immortality, I'm just so bored!' he laments, to the children who's parents he indirectly killed.

I mean, you can understand why he did it, but you absolutely can't make an argument that it was a morally sound decision.

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>>50042236

If they work for it. yeah sure. but if you expect it to be handed to you on a silver platter, well

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>>50042286
>Your characters won't ever see him again
That's assuming that there aren't ways to extend lives/there are no elves who can live for centuries. And given that it's a fantasy setting, it's not a far-fetched assumption that there are.

So he might very well be confronted by the same guy that did the time before.

And
>ok, your group has defeated him, for now
>he returns after a hundred years and this shit repeats all over again

Wow, great. So all in all the characters achieved nothing because the villain a) returned and b) would've fucked off on his own after he had gotten bored (yeah, I get that he fucks off when he has enough ash or whatever the fuck, but who the fuck can say when that will happen, if not the GM controlling the villain?)

So no, the concept of the characters being unable to fuck his shit up permanently would really upset me if the GM pulled that fucking shit on our group.

>>50042038
Don't you have to wage some 'war' against some church boys and their anal virginities?

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>>50042349
That is another thing entirely: do you need me to spell it out for you or some shit?
What part of >>50042236
>with no chance of the players stopping that shit
Isn't fucking clear to you? Shoggy and his band had a chance to fuck up Shane forever, getting him raped with spiky dicks for the rest of his un-life in hell.

The same thing can't be said by the flaming faggot king who returns arbitrarily every hundred years because he can't be killed.

>>50042065
I had a GM who did the "my old PC is now a god" for his setting.

Though that's all in campaign lore, where basically it was "He created this plane of existence" and that's about where his involvement in the campaign ends, aside from a few jokes, like my character creating a clockwork centipede to serve as his familiar, and cutting to the godPC going "Robot centipedes!? Why didn't I think of that."

>>50039908
>converted slave hears/thinks he hears Muhammad's call to fight oppression wherever he finds it
>leads a rebellion, vowing to crush all slavery where he finds it as well as the institutions holding it up

>>50042405
We did that, too. The old party became the gods of the new setting, but most of them were killed before the current campaign takes place, and there is a massive question mark hanging over the others.

>>50042373
Why Yes ANon, the ripping and tearing was exquisite and the screaming and crying was a beautiful sonata. Honestly I'm surprised you remembered our analniversary

>>50038139
As a GM, I actively try to avoid falling into those pitfalls by, for example, making the otherwise good and just rebels take things too far on occasion due to being overly zealous.

>>50042360
>So all in all the characters achieved nothing
If you value human lives that lowly.
What about all the villages you saved by putting his rampage down sooner? The families that can continue living quiet lives in their homes without fear?

Would you not save people from the earthquake/storm/disaster of the Century, because there'll just be another one in a hundred years or so?

If it bothers you that much, try and convince the party to look for a permanent solution. You've got a century or two to find it.

>>50042391
I don't know anon it seems you don't get the metaphor for death, war and taxes very well. much like 4chan and shitposting

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>>50042305
And then you have THIS. I'd almost say that something with this much moral depth has no place in a children's cartoon, but the french don't give a FUCK about that, which is why they wrote Nox and Quilby in the first place.

Based Frogs. Your cooking might be overly pretentious and massively overrated but your attitude towards the intellectual and moral development of children is top notch - Don't treat them like morons and they won't turn out to be morons.

>>50042451
Pretty convinced he's trolling at this point.

>>50042511
Meh we got like 30 more posts before the topic dies, what the worst Anon v Anon will do to each other in this chaotic thread?

>>50042360

And what makes this guy any different than the average Lich? If you kill him he comes back, but in the fire dudes case he takes much longer to do so.

Presumably he can be killed or contained on a more permanent basis somehow. But the players are not handed the means of doing so, nor is the fire king guy going to interrupt his own monologue to explain what it would take to end his reign.

The only difference between a Lich and this fire king are that the Lich has a monster manual entry of explicit weaknesses that you can use to metagame, and the fire guy doesn't.

>>50038139
I'm seriously glad I've had the same play group for 20+ years.

They might not be the best group, but we never have to deal with that shit.

>>50042596
This.

There's nothing wrong with re-occurring villains. As a matter of fact, they're the best villains, because when you finally do manage to stop them it's that much more enjoyable.

Like finally stopping Mechanon.

>>50042191
Except that's fake.

>>50042258
That's not what self-insert means you mongoloid. Self-insert means that the character is a fictionalized representation of yourself.

>>50042360
But why do you care about what happens to the setting after the campaign is over? Your story is done. The setting might be used again, with the Phoenix dude returning once more, but that's a completely new story.

>>50042681
Well You See>>50042360
Has unresolved Daddie issues. so He must damn anything to end so at least in a fictional fantasy he has closer from his father who touched him at a young age

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>>50042709

>>50042616
Reoccurring villains are indeed a good thing as a narrative tool, but most GMs have trouble with knowing when to let go.

A villain that my party has been chasing for a good half a year out of game and several months in-game recently fell in battle against them, after wiping them all out in a cross-counter finish. A new PC was introduced who came upon the scene of carnage, and his introductory bit was going to be providing medical assistance to the party members who were bleeding out. Without my go-ahead, he declared that the villain's heart had already stopped and that she was wounded beyond even his ability to heal.

I was a little disgruntled that he had done that without talking to me first, but I accepted it, because the feeling I was getting from the rest of my players was that they considered this to be a satisfying end to the arc, so I rolled with it.

>>50042639
Haven't you ever acted before? All the roles are self inserts.

A self insert and a DMPC are different things.

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>What's the BBEG's motivation
>unknown and unknowable lol
Lovecraft was a HACK

>>50042793
>>unknown and unknowable while retaining your sanity.
Fixed.

>>50038423
We need more Sundowners as BBEGs

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>>50041096
>Anarcho-socialism is an extremist ideology, but the theory behind it is that everybody gets what they want in the end.

>>50042289
>Top tier
-Literally Schlomo Goldbergstein
-Power mad narcissists
-The enemy general who shares your mutual respect, but who will not concede to you.
-Waifufags

>the BBEG isn't really evil or good
>Neither are you
>It's a simple conflict of interests but neither can compromise due to varying factors

>>50041096
I would dread to live in the society where everybody gets what they want.

This thread is more than enough inspiration to become a BBEG.

I hate all of you. So much.

>>50043104
I can't think of anybody who doesn't want someone dead.

>>50043173
God speed anon.

>>50037450
My BBEG was part of a slave shape-shifting race created to serve a God. That God turned some of the races against each other and fought the other gods, including his sister. After he was inevitably defeated and his Oroborous-like corpse was entombed beneath a mountain range, the BBEG spent the next hundred years searching for relics containing pieces of the God's power. He told his fellow slaves he was going to control the skeletal remains of the God and destroy those that hunted them. In reality, he was going to raise the mountains into elementals and use them to establish his dominance over the land.

the last BBEG I had was a Lich that had purposely locked himself away so he could fuck about with forbidden magic without being bothered or bothering anyone

but some faggot humans found out about this and kept trying to invade his base so his minions he had created through the centuries of his experiments kept fighting them back

the party were hired by said humans to help them and the lich was legitimately confused as to why they were attacking him

>>50043173
Remember to monologue anon

>>50037986
>this world that was designed solely for our amusement
No it isn't you cunt, it is designed for the GM's amusement. Granted having players really helps give the GM amusement but if you are annoying cunts he could just end the campaign and start a new one with another group that isn't full of cunts.

Holy shit players on /tg/ are insufferable.

>>50043274
How did the humans find out?
Sounds like a pretty incompetent Lich, or that his experiments caused major devastation, or both, which are all reasons to go a'knocking.

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>>50039908
Confirmed troll, you're not even trying anymore. Get back under your bridge sperglord.

>>50042443
>it's another "morally grey" each side sucks episode

That's just a way to make me not care to play, really. If I can be with one side of shit, or another side of shit, I'll choose neither.

>>50037953
You sure triggered them neckbeards, son.

>>50043481

>>50038409
Sounds awful. The problem nowadays is that everywhere is either a leftist hugbox or a far-right hugbox, so if you don't have a bunch of bros to play with, you're stuck with either SJWs or MRAs.

>>50043712
So the choices are sit around talk and never actually get shit done. Or go out an shoot everything the wrong species

>>50043712
>The problem nowadays is that I'm a reductive jackass who only deals in false dichotomies

>BBEG just really really really hates haflings
Good enough.

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>>50037450
>What's the BBEG's motivation
>He IS evil.

>>50039367
I've never seen a joke fly so high over someone's head.

>>50041895
Kek

>>50038361
Heartily chuckled

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>Nobody posting the best reason for a villain being evil
Money! It brings power, luxury and ridiculous outfits. Keep those peasants being peasants and enjoy your unlimited power.

>>50044992
Money is a means, not an end.

>>50038069
>BBEGs exist for slaying. Settings exist for players' fuckery. Anything else is self-indulgence.

I'm glad I don't GM for shallow and entitled little shits like you.

>>50037741
Virt, get out

>>50046537
It's an end fairly often.

>>50042072
It only makes sense that the king is a badass in most mid/high fantasy games. Whether through some magical bloodline shenanigans, ancient artifacts, access to the best instructors and teachers, or just straight-up destiny bullshit.

When I run settings like that, the royals are always pretty hardcore and attemping to attack one when you aren't at a fairly heroic level yourself will get you thrown through a pillar, then fined for destruction of royal property, then executed.

>>50037741
>This is why I made sure he died squealing like a pig
I'm failing to see how you're going to get the GM to go along with that when he'd just fiat any damage away if he's actually a railroading dick like you think he is.

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>>50046537

>>50041656
this is just an edited version of dark souls where the main fire dude is still sentient

>>50042236
WELCOME TO DARK SOULS: WHERE EVERYTHING IS POINTLESS

>>50042267
>implying the legendary hero of ages past is ever shit on for only sealing the great evil away

>>50037450
Honestly I like to leave a BBEG's motivations for doing things pretty ambiguous. Maybe drop a few hints that seem like they could be plausible reasons but ultimately have the BBEG tell the group that he doesn't need to explain shit to them and to fuck off if they try to ask him.

>>50038552
you're really missing the whole point of his character if you think that.

>>50046931

What I appreciate the most is that instead of simply confiscating the offender's property after he's dead, your kings have the decency to fine them first, so that it's all nice and legal when they take the other guy's property.

I'm not being sarcastic, I genuinely appreciate that. It's a little touch but it's a good one.

Now that the thread's dying, I just wanted to mention that man this was a good thread.

Coupla people freaking out a little too much but interesting discussion overall. This is the only board where I actually read entire threads and enjoy it

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Clearly, his motivation is to rust the world from his disdain for humankind

>>50041656
That's really cool. I'm tempted to steal it. Might not even reskin it.

The Briarwoods from Critical Role are examples of good antagonists. A loving couple that are entirely conceited and despicable, indebted to a dark god that saved them from tragedy. The only thing we know of them at the beginning is that they got away with butchering one of the PCs family, a noble house and took over their land and town. Slight hints in the background of their activities but nothing explicit. The next time we see them, they're invited to a state dinner to discuss some political arrangement, and shit just goes south from there.

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>>50037450
>What's the BBEG's motivation
>He's crazy lol

>>50037812
Uh, that and if he succeeded it would have literally just fixed all the shit he had ever done. Like his justification was that if he could go back in time and save his family none of his evil actions would matter because he could just not be evil in the new timeline. Any and all atrocities are on the table because if you solve your problem that kind of solves all the others.

>>50043975

>darkseid
>wants to solve a math problem
>not the infinitely more interesting Thanos

Thanos just wants to get laid guys. How is he not the best villain ever? It's a classic story- guy meets girl, guy kills 1/10 of the universe, guy gets girl.

>>50037924
>I have pride and dignity.
Then what are you doing here?

>>50050046
But Thanos never got the girl.

She even showed up to him when she wiped out the Cancerverse and then fucking left him. Thanos never gets the girl.

>>50041537
>Guy preaches "Love your Neighbor as you love yourself."
>So clearly, what he meant was to be tremendous pricks to our neighbors.

>>50037450
>What's the BBEG's motivation
>He wanted to become a god, the gods didn't like that so they locked him away.

In the first session they stumbled across an old man locked in a cell they saved him and pissed on the corpses of his guards.

In the second session they paid little attention to the Lovecraftian shift village folk more interested in starting bar fights and loading up to head to the capital for sweat adventure. by the end of the session the old man had killed the town mayor and he and his cultists erected a tower made of sinew and blood in the place of the town hall.

Campaign went for six years.

To this day they are wary of prisoners and secret doors.

>>50041656
This is some Anti-Spiral shit.
Just because he's correct doesn't mean he's right.

>>50043712
>>50043786
Are there even really MRA agenda pushers around? It was my perception that MRA is just a buzzword ad hominem to dismiss anyone that doesn't agree with the feminist crusade du jour.
I know ani-SJW exist but that's different, they're not agenda pushing they're radically banning everything that could possibly be connected to agenda pushing.

>>50050443
>Are there even really MRA agenda pushers around?
Yes, there are, you simply do not see them as much because you don't really notice them, it happens when someone agrees with the message.
Hell, I agree with the concept of men's rights, especially when it comes to domestics in a world where the laws written of such things may not even apply the way they did, but the mra's are braying jackasses who can't get their shit together to push for any change, and are so low on the totem pole for everyone else they don't really exist.
Difference is, I'm a guy. I don't expect anyone to give a shit.

>>50050222
Wasted trips on a strawman

>>50037741
I remember when that happened to me when I was younger. I had the BBEG's son become the new BBEG who developed a hell of a grudge against the PC and basically ruined the world just so he can "do onto him what he done onto his father"

shit became so salty that all the BBEG and minions were focus firing on him all throughout the campaign.

>>50049973
>chaotic neutral
chaotic evil.

>>50050581
I have never seen an MRA rally.
I have seen someone derail a discussion on the internet once or twice the subject of female privilige.
The only time I actually see the MRA label thrown around is on subjects like people not liking the new ghostbusters movie or female thor. It just seems like an insult to me.

>>50037700
Honestly, I have the opposite problem. If the BBEG is only there to be killed, then I find it horribly boring. If I'm not invested in the story, setting and motivations of characters, then I also have no reason to find their death in any way satisfying or cathartic. Even if the motivation is cliché, I'd rather it be here than not, since that'd give an actual reason for narrative conflict and character development.
If I just want to have a cool fight and then have kill someone in a brutal way, I can pick up a video game. I want there to be some meat to the story and an actual reason for my characters to go through all the trouble of confronting the antagonist beyond "he's evil and I'm the righteous hero" or "he fucked me over at some point, so it's time for payback". If this gives me a reason to consider switching sides or turning against my allies, then even better.

Sure, a threatening blatantly evil villain that you can lynch with no regrets is nice every once in a while and is better than one with a generic pretentious sob story, but that just makes him bland and after a while "kill him so that you don't have to tolerate his shit" becomes the main motivation instead of "kill him to feel good about doing a good thing".

-He wants to make his waifu real, no matter how dangerous she actually is
-He's just bored and runs away the moment he feels threatened
-By sheer luck he always causes the next disaster
-
-Indrick Boreale, but evil and actually competent

r8 my BBEGs

My current campaigns BBEG is a wealthy merchant who learned that this worlds afterlife is no longer a joyous valhalla-esque utopia but a screaming hellscape where a great being from beyond the stars devours everything. Only the highest in the church know this and they keep it secret due to the panic it would cause.

He sees whats waiting for his wife and children when they die and, to save them, makes a bargain with a demonic entity to spare them, in return for his servitude. He now has to bring this demon into our realm to fulfil his end. He knows what hes doing is wrong, but he'll do it for his family.

>>50047579

Not really Souls without the undead curse. The PCs against the fire king can at least enjoy a life after their victory if they win. In a Souls game, you were doomed before character creation. Its just a question of whether your death will make the world a better place or a worse one.

>>50049206
This
There has been some stupity, but I enjoyed this thread.

The BBEG's motivation is that he was written as the villain by a magical spell of a super powerful teenage girl wizardess trying to write a romance novel.

and he fucking hates it. Not just because he never thought of himself as a villain and now everyone hates him. Not just because he is forced to do incredibly petty, evil and stupid shit for seemingly no reason beyond even his own comprehension, but because the romance story is just so utterly, painfully cliche.

His life is misery, but he doesn't want to die to the fabulous hero's hand because the only thing he hates more than his current situation is the thought of them getting a happy ending. So he intends to do everything to prevent their happy ending and if that means being the most twisted asshole villain ever, so be it.

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>>50053292
Forgot image