/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

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>>50032929

First for every woman who's seen my PHR fleet has thought they were adorable, especially the frigates.

>>50032953
>I feel like I have bee deceived.
Nah, you've gotta read the short stories from the newsletters.

>PHR Siren who toys with a Brave so she can pull of a sweet trickshot with a detachable hand
>PHR Menchit pilot who purposefully tells his mech's AI to gimp its firing solutions so he can maximize his kills-per-bullet ratio and kill streak
>Fucking Marcus Barros

>>50032960
>PHR are DFC's Tyranids
Whoda thunk.

>>50032929

Interesting typo: 3 broadsides on the left, one on the right. Was that a priam?

Interesting fluff: scourge got their ass kicked. UCM making breakthrough finding PHR homeworld.

>>50032979
>3 broadsides on the left, one on the right. Was that a priam?
Leonidas/Agamemnon

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>>50032960
Pics pls

First try with making a Scourge List, how much did I fuck up?

Clash 1500
Pathfinder: Nickar x2, Gargoyle x2, Scylla x3 (234pts, SR7)
Pathfinder: Djinn x3, Gargoyle x2, Yokai x2 (383pts, SR 15)
Line: Hydra (140pts, SR 5)
Line: Ifrit, Sphinx x2 (340pts, SR 15)
Vanguard: Wyvern, Fleet Overlord Banshee (395pts, SR 15)
1492pts

Hi, Rob

>>50033108
You're gonna want either a third group of strike carriers, or a troopship mein freund.

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UCM dismisses claims of these so-called "Reapers" as Race X.

>>50033180
[Inception Noises]

>>50032979

I wonder how UCM managed to infiltrate their agent into PHR ship, might be a PHR bait.

Whatever happens, PHR homeworld gonna be found someday. giving us another battlefield.

>>50033212
>I wonder how UCM managed to infiltrate their agent into PHR ship

Only man in the Colonies that warms up with a five plate dinner.

>>50033212
>UCM finds one of the Shaltari homeworlds
>Shaltari go from 0 to 100 fucking instantly
>no more manipulation bullshit
>utter and total extermination of humanity for locating their worlds

>>50033212
>I wonder how UCM managed to infiltrate their agent into PHR ship, might be a PHR bait.
Which page?

>>50033212
It's been covered elsewhere. She didn't infiltrate in the espionage sense, she got aboard by sneaking on. She was discovered moments after she activated the beacon.

>>50033277

DFC core, p19, tlalocan system stuff.

>>50033354

it's just covered as 'An ONI operative managed to infiltrated the PHR cruiser Mind of Asimov carrying...', not mentioned how.

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>>50033260
>Scourge respond with "hey, we were eating that" and divert a major counteroffensive to stop them

>>50033428

*infiltrate

>>50033428
It's not new fluff, it's been covered in greater detail before.

Espionage by UCM agents against the PHR can't be done because PHR citizens can immediately tell when someone has no implants.

>>50033471

Could you tell me where it was mentioned? can't find on reconquest p2 either.

>>50033471
This; PHR have a form of short-range empathy/telepathy (that's EM based) that's one of their most basic augments, found in everyone from (reportedly) citizens to their leaders.

>>50033499
It's wither Reconquest 1 or 2.

It's how they found the Tlalocan moons, which has a whole theatre section in one of the books.

>>50033503
Not even that, though you're right.

Apparently PHR citizens without specific implants for espionage just move and 'feel' radically different from normal humans, to the point where UCM dudes find them kind of disconcerting and uncanny to interact with.

>>50033518
found it on reconquest 1.

An agent boarded on the cruiser in secret. how could boarding action be unnoticed is what I curious about.

>>50033597
Just a high level of regular sneaking, probably. I'm guessing she got in while it was docked for resupply, though I guess it's possible there was a clandestine boarding action I guess.

But yeah it may be a plant. It's confirmed that one of the Marine vessels watching the Tlalocan moons has a PHR agent onboard.

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Gah!

>>50034110
Shiet, that actually looks pretty cool, anon

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>>50034110
Huh. The more I look at it, the more ambivalent I get. It's not bad at all, just...eh.

So, how do all the primary combat battleships stack up, in you guy's views?

>Beijing
+best arcs of any battleship
+wide variety of weapon types and damage potentials; can easily engage multiple different ship types without overkilling
+cheapest
---JUST DROP IT BY 2 POINTS DAVE HOLY FUCK I WANT TO TAKE 2 BEIJINGS

>Dragon
+highest overall damage potential out of all battleships (6 per phalanx, 4 for array, 8 from furnace cannon), ignoring CAW
+best PD along with the Diamond
+second cheapest
-can't engage smaller ships without overkilling

>Heracles
+extremely powerful main gun
+excellent at engaging other capital ships
+toughest
-worst arcs
-most expensive
-second lowest overall damage potential

>Diamond
+Main gun is even better at crippling stuff than the Heracles
+smallest signature
+best PD along with Dragon
-most fragile
-second worst arcs
-least overall damage potential

>>50035159
Beijing or bust.

>>50035159
Speaking of, is it a typo that the New York is equipped with Shark missile bays, while the Beijing and New York have Swordfish missile bays?

>>50035249
Probably intentional. With access to the Torpedoes and the hangar bays, you need some obvious weakness people can go ahah over, and reducing its potential CAW damage output is a good way to do that.

>That description of high speed, mass killing void warfare between fighters and bombers
Hawk you gotta quit making me want different miniature game option. That, plus the various hazard suits in use photos are doing a real good job showing things going on.

>>50033180
I really want to go with this scheme, but I can't help thinking that there's a better scheme waiting to be discovered.

I find it hilarious that the PHR are sold out everywhere. Is everyone playing PHR?

>>50036492
I certainly am, though I'm also going to decide between Shaltari or Scourge as a secondary.

>>50036492
Not everyone, but they're definitely the most popular faction. The only reason UCM might be outpacing them at the moment is because they're in the starter box.

>>50035159

You forgot the Minos.

+Higher Damage potential than the Hercules
+Crippling CAW's that do double damage
+Torpedoes
+Joint Toughest
-Lack of long range frontal weapons
-Joint most expensive

>>50036492
PHR objectively look the coolest.
UCM second.

Scourge all look the same, and frigates/battleship looks terrible

Shitari are the worst designed ships in possibly any space game.

>>50037371
Scourge frigates are quite distinct and very cephalopod in shape, while the battleships are wicked trilobites. Feels like their cruisers are the one with silhouette recognition issues.

Why you no like hedgehog?
I think their spindly style fits quite well with their bonkers-high technology, what's the issue you see?

>>50034110
Compensating much?

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>>50037371
>Scourge all look the same, and frigates/battleship looks terrible

>>50037371
>Hating the trilobite

But why? I'm not a fan of the scourge look but I love their BBs

>>50037371
Ooh, are we shitting up the thread with our subjective opinions? I'll go next.

PHR are decent. Hector and Bell look stupid with their double laser underbite, but otherwise bosthuman ships are pretty good across the board. Probably the best battleships, that Heracles is magnificent.

UCM are the most reliably good, the only ones I don't like are the battlecruisers and they'll be given different models later anyway. Best frigates by far.

Scourge battleships are top tier, I don't know what you're going on about. Frigates are pretty bad though. Cruisers are hit-or-miss, some of them are a bit samey.

Fuck you nigger, Shaltari look great. I'm lukewarm towards the frigates, but the cruisers and battleships are very nice. Go play with your anal bead, primitive.

>>50037605
Yeah, I'm not a fan of he underbit either- it's why I've been contemplating doing the twin lasers horizontally rather than vertically.

>>50032978
Shortstories from newsletters?
Where the fuck do we find those!?
>hyped

>>50037605
Its me again coming through with some hot opinions.

Agree, underbite ships are bad.

UCM are pretty good all around, however its funny you highlighted their frigates being the best, when the UCM frigates are objectively the worst looking of the UCM ships!

Scourge BS, yeah ok i'll give you this one. Its alright. Just very different from the rest of the ships.
Cruisers look good, but are all identical.
Frigates are bad.

Shaltari are pretty bad all over. Cruisers and BS are a slight redemption.

>>50037783
The Hydra looks pretty different. I'd say it's the best looking Scourge cruiser too.

UCM frigates are all unique and wonderful, neck yourself.

Shaltari look real good too, see above for recommended course of action.

Can we all take a moment to discuss the wording on the Calypso PHR Frigate's Advanced ECM Suite?

>>50037915
If you're asking whether using it against a single medium mass driver turret means every single medium mass driver turret on the table has +1 lock for the whole turn my feeling is no, the wording seems to me that it affects one weapon system on one ship. The fluff bit below also explicitly states that it only works on a single enemy ship, and (unlike GW) Dave tends to write rules that actually match the fluff, so it can be used to establish intent with reasonable confidence.

>>50037371
>Shitari are the worst designed ships in possibly any space game.

>Haiting on the hedgehogs
Nigga you fukkin wut?

>tfw you're just sitting here, liking each and every ship equally
>except the Shaltari frigates, which you like slightly less but still like very much so

Do some people really not like the wizard hat Scourge?

Quick question, if I launch fighters to boost my point defence when do they go away?

Presumably I can't just launch fighters every turn and have say 9 fighters out (3 turns of Seattle launch) until I use them?

>>50038047
But would you say the same to the Shaltari Shield booster?
That it only function against a single weapon on a single ship.
>My feeling is that you target a specific weapon for a group.
I think the book uses the phrase "against an attack" to describe it.

>>50038555
Fighters are removed at the beginning of the next roundup phase, so you aren't able to stack them up.

>>50038575
>"Once per turn, when a friendly ship with 4" is being targeted by an opponent's weapon you may add 1 to one weapon system's lock value for the remainder of the turn..."
>by an
>to one weapon system
Seems pretty clear cut to me, referencing, in particular, a singular entity, not a class of entities.

Shield booster is equally specific; if a ship with 4" is being targeted by an enemy ship (and has its shields up), the Opal may respond may respond by boosting its shields. If its shields are boosted, it may re-roll ALL failed passive saves in response to ALL attack dice from a single enemy group.

Whether or not it can be boosted depends on the presence of at least one ship targeting it, but the actual effect affects an entire group of weaponry, meaning multiple ships and multiple weapon systems.

>>50038644

I like that it stacks and that RAW it works on CAW, bombers and oddly enough, torps if I'm reading it right.

It doesn't say *ships* weapon system, it just says a weapons system. When torps roll to hit they just use a weapons system profile like any other gun in the game.

>>50038862
Unfortunately not, anon; it can only be activated if an enemy SHIP targets it, and it only rerolls failed saves against an enemy GROUP, which implies ships.

Bombers and Torps don't come in groups.

You are right, however, that it can be used to save against CAW from an enemy group, as that is a weapon system.

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>>50038900

Oh I apologize I meant the calypso. The opal works as you describe.


Interesting that the opal can't do anything to bombers or torps though

>>50038918
Reading the fluff it does seem that the intent is to fuck with single ships at the time, and thus doesn't work against groups.
However the stacking clause seems a bit insidious.

>>50039037

I think the calyspo does only work against a single ship weapon (each) at a time but boy can you fuck up big important weapons at the worst time.

Also it's apparently the only actual torpedo defense in the game, which is huge.

>>50039056

I'm not sure if Torps ignore Shields do they? Plus you still get armour rolls if the Torp doesn't crit.

>>50039056
Huh. Never really thought of that as I didn't think it could hit torps as they are munition launch assets. I can see them being classified as weapons too though.

But wouldn't that just delay the inevitable?
Torps get free re-rolls for their attack every turn sorta. But again, Making sure the Torps only crit on a 6 sound pretty baller.

>>50039096
No wait, scratch that.
You get another attack roll the next turn if you miss.
But I'd hazard a guess that a torp that doesn't crit is sort of a wasted torp.

>>50039087

Torps do not seem to ignore shields but the opal can't do activate against them, so it's kind of a wash.

Two calypsos can make any torpedo only hit on a 4+ which is huge.

Also since bombers don't just pool their attacks like ships but actually attack as one unit, the calypso might be able to fuck them over as well.

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PHR fleet

1478/1500

Line battlegroup- 294
2x Orion 214
2x Europa 80

Line battlegroup- 189
Theseus 89
Ajax 100

Line battlegroup- 175
Ikarus 115
2x echo 60

Pathfinder battlegroup- 291
Ganymede 135
4x Medea 156

Vanguard battlegroup- 275
Leonidas 195
2x Europa 80

Vanguard battlegroup- 254
Bellepheron 180
2x calypsos 74


I feel unsubtle


I feel good

>>50039377

I don't understand why the Calypsos with the Bellerophon

>>50039473

Mostly for two reasons

1) Can't fit it with the Leo without dropping the Europas

2) It's gonna be a high priority target with a near permanent minor spike from launching, it's scan bait as it is so giving it some tanking capacity will let it soak damage for my real hard hitters.

They could go to the Orion battlegroup though, that's pretty legitimate

>>50039377

>2x Orion
>2x Europa

>22 dice per side arc

>>50039377
I raise you a MAXIMUM BROADSIDES

>Vanguard -275
Leonidas -195
2x Europa -80

>Line -374
2x Orion -214
4x Europa -160

>Line -200
2x Ajax -200

>Line -178
2x Theseus -178

>Pathfinder -291
Ganymede -135
2x Medea -78
2x Medea -78

>Pathfinder -90
3x Echo -90

Director AV4 -80

1488/1500

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>>50039782

>1488/1500

>>50039847
White sphere pride galaxy wide, fellow posthuman.

So I plays a game with starter fleets (PHR vs. Scourge) over the weekend and the game was very interesting. Weapons have both very long range and very short range at the same time. Initiative rolls were utterly crucial to the outcome, although I feel that's slightly more to blame on the small fleet sizes.

I was PHR and I'll say that using the broadsides was fairly tricky. I suspect that the reason PHR have scan 8 is to make up for the fact that they can't fly directly towards their target (unlike everyone else).

I think homeworld music fits UCM perfectly as they're cold, logical tacticians hopefully acting very rationally

But for some reason, and this may just be biased, I feel like the PHR and their glory seeking Greek hero personas really benefit from battlefleet gothic music

https://youtu.be/6DhAAGZVAVo

I mean come on this just screams "form two lines, close to broadsides"

>>50039969
>I think homeworld music fits UCM perfectly as they're cold, logical tacticians hopefully acting very rationally

Anon, of the stories in the DFC rulebook, one is a UCM cobra laser commander blowing out his cooling banks so that he could blow up one more Topaz.

Another is a Moscow's captain wishing that they didn't have inertial dampeners, so that the command crew could feel the guns firing.

Another is the UCM REEEEEEEEING so hard that they throw an entire fleet, and 3 Tokyos, into the meat grinder to punish the PHR for something they likely didn't do. The ensuing clusterfuck was so bad that the UCM admiral was immediately court marshaled, and they use that battle as an example of what NOT to do in the fleet's officer school.

The UCM is far from rational.

>>50040007

okay they can join us on the imperial navy soundtrack

I still haven't gotten my commodore, PHR starters are sold out everywhere but I could get another UCM starter to fill the gap. It would give me a solid 1500 point list when combined with the two player starter...

>>50039969
I don't think homeworld music is anything like bombastic enough for the UCM. I feel it fits the scourge more, if anything.

>>50039969
>they're cold, logical tacticians hopefully acting very rationally
Sort of. The UCM is like a juxtaposition of cold efficiency and white hot rage against everyone who ever fucked them over (which is almost everyone they've ever encountered)

They start off with Homeworld music until it turns into Rebel Galaxy music.

>>50039119
Wait, torps get rerolls to hit? I thought their thing was that shaking them would only delay them unlike bombers.

>>50040239
If they miss or you shake them off they come back next turn. Unless you shake them off on a 6, then they fuck off forever.

>>50040239

Sorta

Torpedoes hit at the end of the ships activation

The ship gets a chance to shake the torp by course changing or going full thrust

On a 1-3, it does nothing and the torp will get to attack at the end of the activation, on a 4-5 the torp doesn't get to attack this turn but gets to try again next activation (and the ship can try to dodge it again) and on a 6 the torpedo is permanently shaken and is removed with no attack.


If a torpedo misses on its attack roll it will circle around for another pass, starting the whole process over

The only two ways to remove a torpedo is either to roll a 6 when shaking it or when it successfully hits

>>50040239
If you roll a 1 to hit for a torps, it just sits there and tries again the following turn.

It gives the target another chance to dodge if they want to.

The only way to stop a torp for good is to get a 6 on the dodge roll. A 4 or 5 on a dodge attempt will just delay it another turn.

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>Been out of the loop on DZC fluff since the starter rulebook
>mfw reading the DFC fluff and history

All this Humanity Fuck Yeah, I can hardly contain myself.

Hmm- I had a thought- how much bigger is the atlantis over the regular heavy cruisers?
Also, how large are the cruiser BTL parts?

As I had the idea of trying to convert a cruiser and maybe some frigates as well into an avalon.

>>50040158
>Rebel Galaxy music.
Which, by the way, is fucking fantastic for anyone who hasn't heard it. One of the best OST's for a space game ever.
https://youtu.be/IBAYW0WGKtE?list=PLRMcXkadosW43B18ZSbYFqBnFn2myQwRw

>>50040343

The laser Dick is a fair bit longer than the normal Berlin laser, could try just glueing two end to end but that's iffy.

The Atlantis is a breeze to convert in comparison

>>50040158
>>50040325
This; they're almost proto-IoM, but without being edgy grimderp.

>>50040494
I was thinking putting 2 together, maybe doing them down the centre split of the hull, and cutting a frigate in half to give it some extra bulk on the sides.

>>50040360
>ywn be a grizzled space trucker
>not autistic enough to play EVE
Why live?

>>50040360
>not posting the best song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zTGaOAs7M

>>50040692

Space trucking for money in eve doesn't exist. Space freightering in mammoth vulnerable cargo ships exists and it's only a mechanism for making money when used for your own market games

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>>50040732
The whole OST is amazing, anon. I can't love just one.

>>50040777
That, we can agree on

>There ain't no forgiveness
>I ain't a believer
>I'm a bad, bad, man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IDnFzr_ZaY

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>>50040795
One thing I did like was being able to add in your own music to spice it up from time to time.

>Long warp ahead
>This kicks in
https://youtu.be/A69BertdSt4

>>50040875
>One thing I did like was being able to add in your own music to spice it up from time to time.
Yeah, that was a great system.

Since we're posting songs, post things that relate to the factions.

>Feral Resistance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq4QiDHHTWI

>>50040982
I enjoyed that in MGS:5 TPP
Nothing says air superiority support like hearing A-ha's "Take on me" faintly growing from the horizon.

>>50040771
I beg to differ anon. My cousin swears the most fun he's had in that game is hauling around other people's crap.

>>50040982
>Shaltari, maybe UCM when they're feeling more composed
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p9OBf8f55tU

>Scourge, obligatory
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-iAlhuK3cgk

Does anyone else think that the Beijing should be dropped to 250 points? There's already precedence for them being able to take two battleships at 1500, and them having the cheapest (and most numerous) battleships seems like a good way to properly differentiate them even more from the other factions.

>>50041067

Your cousin is a stupid normie high sec casual with no money who enjoys repetitive tasks.

That or he is the logistics guy for an alliance

>>50041313
Nah, the toyko isn't a full-on fighting ship, while the beijing is the UCM's premium fighting battleship. Two battleships is much less of an issue when one is a tokyo. Or to put it another way, if you could take two beijings at 1500 points, I'd argue you should be able to take two daemons/heracleses/diamonds as well.

>>50041434
>Or to put it another way, if you could take two beijings at 1500 points, I'd argue you should be able to take two daemons/heracleses/diamonds as well.

But see, I don't think that should be the case. The Beijing is a GREAT ship, but it's really not the best battleship; it plays into the UCM being able to mass produce stuff and being a massive warmachine; Scourge BB's are said to all be incredibly old and no longer in production, Shaltari battleships equally so, and the PHR ones are just fucking huge.

Also, keep in mind; that's litterally an entire 3rd of your fleet tied up in two groups, in a 30 SR BG. As cool as taking two combat BBs is, it's not without its penalties.

>>50041313
Gonna bet that they tried that and it turned out the Beijing was way too good when you had 2. Which is probably why they made it 2 more points.

>>50041434
I wish the tokyo had some limited dropship capacity. As it is now it feels too much like a one trick pony, and I'd much prefer having a New York or Beijing along. Guess I shouldn't complain when it has some respectable ship fighting abilities though.

>>50041491
>Gonna bet that they tried that and it turned out the Beijing was way too good when you had 2. Which is probably why they made it 2 more points.
Damn Admirals, ruining our fun.

>>50041490
>tied up in two groups
in two ships*

>>50041508

We all probably dodged a few dozen games of double 250-point Beijings up against whatever-they-were-originally-costed-to-be-with-no-launch-asset-limits Bellerophon spam on account of it, though.

My preorder ships just arrived and I have a few questions.
HOW would you build a hedgehog fleet?
One Mothership per 500pts?
3 Gates per mothership?

What should one focus on to not shoot yourself in the foot?

>>50041490
>But see, I don't think that should be the case.
So your faction should get two combat battleships (which you admit are GREAT ships) but no other faction should. Yeah, nah, fuck off powergamer. It's never actually about the fluff with you lot, is it? But, to actually address the fluff thing:
>scourge may not be building them, (although that might be "wishful thinking") but they had a fuckhueg fleet to start with
>PHR you've just assumed don't have serious manufacturing capabilities
>shaltari have a whole empire offscreen, who knows how many ships they have

And the disadvantage of using a lot of points on one ship is hardly a justification for only one faction being able to do that. Pretty much the opposite, in fact, if it's such a disadvantage what's the harm in everyone being able to make that choice?

>>50041490

I think your line of reasoning for why hawk made the Beijing too expensive to take 2 of is backwards

I don't think they specifically priced the Beijing to exclude it from having 2 in one battlegroup, I think they specifically priced the Tokyo so that it could be the buddy cop to another flag group.

Otherwise I don't think anyone would really take a Tokyo all that often because it would mean giving up a Beijing or New York

>>50041674
>Yeah, nah, fuck off powergamer. It's never actually about the fluff with you lot, is it?
Wew lad, that's some serious fucking
>implying
you've got going on there. Maybe I'm just a johnnyfag who wants to take two Beijings for the sake of it being fuck awesome.

>whatever the case, they have a limited number of; UCM is still churning out battleships
>they obviously do have serious manufacturing capabilities, but both the Heracles and Minos are HUGE ships with technology limited to them and them alone (DMC and Neutron Missiles); not even the PHR can mass produce stuff like that
>fair point, but the fact remains that their battleships are several millenia old; it's fair to say that they don't make them very often

>And the disadvantage of using a lot of points on one ship is hardly a justification for only one faction being able to do that.
It's a justification as to why its possibly okay for one faction to do that.

>Pretty much the opposite, in fact, if it's such a disadvantage what's the harm in everyone being able to make that choice?
Because the Beijing, despite being a great ship, is still pretty much the weakest of the BB's.
The Daemon out damages it.
The Heracles/Minos out-tank it, as well as being able to cripple the hell out of it.
The Diamond out ranges it, and can cripple enemy BB's even better than the PHR.

>>50041789
Gotta say I sorta agree with this anon.
PHR seems elitist.
Scourge seems like hyper-glass
Shaltari are rule-bending snipers.

I think a "swarm" faction that rely on more than average medium-ships is amiss, what with the lack of technicals in space and everything.

>>50041787
Fair enough, but I feel the Tokyo still has a place on its own instead of "fuck, I want another combat BB, guess I'll take a Tokyo".

Its bombardment is hands down the best in the game, 10 2+ attacks compared to the:
Madrid's 6 2+
Charybdis' 4 4+
Ganymede's 6 3+
Medea's 2 4+
Jet's/Turq's 4 2+

Along with it all being on a superheavy platform with a great beam and some decent guns.

>>50041789
>it's worse
Which is why it's fewer points than those ships, allowing you to take more stuff in the rest of your fleet. It doesn't mean two beijings in 1500 points is good for the game, and I'm inclined to trust the people who've tested the game on this one, not someone who childishly wants something "fuck awesome" and is performing mental gymnastics as to why he deserves the bag of sweeties, I mean double battleships.

>It's a justification as to why its possibly okay for one faction to do that.
No it fucking isn't. It doesn't justify in any way one particular faction getting that choice.

>>50041853
Beijings are already the cheapest, and Tokyos are even cheaper than that. Either way it seems like the slightly above 250 price was deliberate. We don't know exactly why, but I'm willing to assume that this was tested.

Being able to field a slightly worse BB for cheaper is very different to being able to field 2 slightly worse BBs. Tokyo gets away with it because it's so specialised, but for all we know twin combat battleships might have been completely game breaking at 1500.

>>50041874

Tokyos okay but for straight up bombardment two madrids clean the floor with it at 178 points for better bombardment.

The only things the Tokyo gets in that 42 point difference are a Cobra, some hull points and some scan. Granted a 42 point cobra is pretty sweet.

>>50041853

Tee bee h PHR have the best capacity to spam normal cruisers and get away with it. They're just so cheap for how much firepower they bring

>>50041922
>and I'm inclined to trust the people who've tested the game on this one, not someone who childishly wants something "fuck awesome" and is performing mental gymnastics as to why he deserves the bag of sweeties, I mean double battleships.
UCM already gets double battleships, no need to be rude about it.

>No it fucking isn't. It doesn't justify in any way one particular faction getting that choice.
>UCM is churning out battleships contanstly
>their combat battleship is the worst
>can already take two battleships in a game, as opposed to any other faction
>exchanges the best bombardment platform in the game for some more shots for 30 points
>ties up a third of the fleet's points in a single group
>Hawk's rules and stats are universally set up to punish minmaxing anyways
I don't see the problem

>>50041960
See, this I can agree with. Personally, I'm going to try running double Beijings with a homebrewed price (if my fellow players will agree with it), simply because I want to see how good/terrible it actually is.
I'm actually thinking that it'll run into a lot of trouble; Beijings only have 18 hull, after all; it's easy enough to put down 9 damage on such a huge target.

>>50041960
You also raise a LOT of valid points.
I have faith that Hawk knows what they're doing and I trust them to have good reasons for what they're doing.
>I just want the resistance faction in space.

>>50033158
Alright, but what should I take out for it? (I was planning on using the scyllas and nickars to run interference on one of the enemy's zones, does that make up for the lack of drop capacity?).
Also
>want to make a list with elements that silent run/stealth up to point blank and murders the enemy with CAW
>know my friend would be playing shaltari
>look up their ship stats
>all that PD
I may need to change my strategy

>>50041853
>what with the lack of technicals in space and everything.
Space-based alien resistance when. The UCM needs a vengeance buddy, and the Scourge haven't had their shit kicked in hard enough yet. Those lizardmen the Scourge fucked up could work.

>>50042082
I'd say drop a Scylla and drop down from AV5 to AV4, and stick it in the Hydra BG

>>50042082
They have to turn off that PD if they want to use their shields though, so your friend will have to choose between only getting PD from fighters or having an effective armour save of 6+ against your CA.

>>50042119
They Gargoyle group, that is*

Guys!
Are the Shaltari starterset any good?
Or does it contain any "meh" units like the PHR's Hector?

I noticed something interesting; the Perseus' group value is only 1.

I'm thinking that Hawk actually did design it to be utterly shit, except as a supplementary "space filler" for larger fleets.

>>50042193
Having only played one game, I can't say for certain. However /tg/ has put forward that Jades just aren't worth it, and I'm inclined to agree, even if theybdid alright in my game.

>>50041994
>Tee bee h PHR have the best capacity to spam normal cruisers and get away with it. They're just so cheap for how much firepower they bring

It seems they did that on purpose though, and it's a core part of their naval designs in general. They do with ships what the UCM does with ground vehicles- designs optimized for construction, deployment, and keeping deployed.

>empty frames filled with racks of mass-drivers and "cheating" on construction with energy barriers wherever they can get away with it, manned with skeleton crews and AIs.

>every Shaltari ship has a cost that's a multiple of 5
>except the Amethyst and Glass
REEE

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>>50042193

The obsidian and Amber are solid as fuck

The emerald is just plain mandatory

Topaz are good

Build the Jades as literally anything else

>>50042249

>have enormous strides in materials engineering and technology allowing you to have massive internal volume for a an equally sized ship with no loss in durability

>use it to cram as many guns as possible into your ships and spam as many ships as possible with your tiny crew requirements

>have a navy the same size as a rival space nation with 7 times the population


Broadsides are a bit arrogant but the rest of their fleet strategy is top tier

>>50042238
Jades might be alright in mirror matches, being able to crit through shields is pretty nice. Unfortunately otherwise they're just mathematically inferior to the Topaz.

>>50042301
Glass pricing was an error, it's going to be changed. Maybe to 20, who knows?

Challenge for /dcg/; build a 1500 point fleet list, with one constraint:
You MUST use all the ships in the standard starter fleet, this means
>the UCM fleet needs to have a Moscow, a Berlin, a Seattle, two Toulons, and two Nawlins
>the Scourge fleet needs to have a Shenlong, an Ifrit, a Wyvern, two Harpies, and two Gargoyles
>the PHR fleet needs to have a >>>hector, an Ikarus, a Theseus, two Europas, and two Medeas
>the Shaltari fleet needs to have an Obsidian, an Amber, two Topazes, and two Jades; the Emerald and voidgates are obligatory

>inb4 >>>hector

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Mandatory ship-girl post!

>>50042322

Broadsides aren't disqualifyingly stupid in space, it's not as if you can't just aim with the ship. If packing in mass-drivers until they run out of space instead of installing turrets means they can build more ships and keep the crew sizes down, go for it, I guess.

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>>50042402
Anon. The hector isn't >>>bad.
It's just not good taking into consideration all the other options. You can put it into your lists and still win. Even better if you play against other lists whom ALSO uses starter-set models.

>>50042402

My typical 2x Orion+Europa line battlegroup group gets combined into a Hector+Orion+Europa vanguard battlegroup. Rest of list is about the same.

Making a UCM list with its starter box contents isn't a challenge at all and in all honesty I'll probably include everything anyway, with the Moscow being the only maybe.

Scourge have to put up with taking a Shenlong which I think is actually more of a disadvantage than taking a Hector for PHR

>forcing Shaltari to take Jades

Monster

>>50042425

I mean if we only cared about optimization then making your ship dagger shaped (like a star destroyer) would be the best way to have as many guns as possible but also to fire them all in one arc too.

But we're posthumans, broadsides are more glorious thus better

>>50042428

If you're taking a double Orion battlegroup, you can think of a Hector+Orion as buying a cobra BTL for 63 points. A Hector+Orion+Europa vanguard group is still a fuckton of shots with a bit more of a threat on the approach

Do I need 2 emeralds for 1500 pts?

>haven't read KS comments in three weeks
>decide to do so
>immediately regret decision

>>50042506

Absolutely

>>50042506
One mothership per 1000 points, plus one mothership at base, seems fair.

Maybe go up to 4 motherships if you hit 3000.

Is there a rule of thumb for how many assault carriers/troopships you should take at 1500pts?

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>Reading DFC fluff
>UCM launches recon mission
>8000 men and armor
>Recon

JUST TAKING A PEEK, PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE ARMY BEHIND THE SHRUBS

>>50042913
What page/section ?

>>50043021
Asgard System, page 18. Makes sense in context, but I just thought the idea amusing.

PHR 1500
-Pathfinder w/ 2 Pandora and 2 Medea 178/4
-Line w/ 2 Ajax and 1 Ganymede 338/15
-Line w/ 2 Medea and 2 Theseus 256/7
-Vanguard w/ Ikarus and Priam 325/15
-Flag w/ 2 Calypso and AV3 Minos or Heracles (I don't know which one I want to take) 399/17

>>50043301
Split the Ajax and Ganymede BG into two BG's; always max out the number of battlegroups you're using.

[Plasma Intensifies]

>Vanguard -359
Banshee -190
AV3 -40
3x Djinn -129

>Line -180
2x Strix -180

>Line -210
2x Wyvern -210

>Line -233
Chimera -105
2x Gargoyle -64
2x Gargoyle -64

>Pathfinder 258
6x Djinn -258

>Pathfinder 258
6x Djinn -258

1498/1500

>>50043547
AAAAAAAAAAUGH

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>>50042913
UCM Asgard Forces in R:P2, lead by Liam 'Punished' Neeson
"We're on the run now that we've been betrayed! Pay no attention to my flying command missile barge, or my dropship mounted MBT brigades"

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>>50044204
I love that the concept of discretion comes to the UCM in fits and bursts.

>people posting faction songs
>no https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGHCoVzqtk

This is the only theme the UCM need.

>>50043301
I see you're shitting out a tonne of 5+ anti-frigate Broadsides and an ok amount of 4+ broadsides.
But are your bombers the ony answer you have against other heavies, or am I just not seeing this?

>>50042322
>>50042328
I played a game with Shaltari starter set recently.

The Obsidian/Jade group dealt 7 damage to a Moscow on the first turn, which proceeded to then suffer more damage and lose its scanners.

Later they destroyed the enemy Berlin in a single salvo.

Do not underestimate the Jades. They are essentially a set of extra guns bolted on to your Obsidian that make it guaranteed to cripple a ship every time it fires.

>>50044365
>are your bombers the only answer you have against other heavies, or am I just not seeing this?
well I mean, there's the battleship. I guess I could also take a perseus or achilles though

>>50044301
Bang on.

>>50044405
>well I mean, there's the battleship. I guess I could also take a perseus or achilles though
But what will you remove for the Perseus or Achilles?
And is the Pandora something you chose because you already have 25+ light broadsides, or do you think it's better than Europa?

Any thoughts on this?

1500pts
>Vanguard
Bellerophon, Bellerophon, x1 Calypso, Lv2 Admiral (40)
>Line
Orion, Theseus, x2 Europa
>Line
Orion, x2 Europa
>Line
Orion, x2 Europa
>Pathfinder
Orpheus, x2 Medea
>Pathfinder
x2 Pandora, 2x Medea

I'm thinking of dropping the Theseus and distributing its weight in Europas across the other Line groups.

>>50044433
I mostly just took the pandoras so I'd have some burnthrough and flash. I don't know if they're better than the europa because I don't have the disposable income for wargames so I've never played the game, I just make lists and read tg threads on them in the same way that in movies the poor kid looks through the window of the toy store seeing all the neat stuff he wants but can't get.

>>50044433
Achilles is love, Achilles is life
Remove your pants and present your torpedo hole for Achilles

>>50044301
>>50044416
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ts1DB6hFcQ

For the full UCM experience.

I know there are at least a few kids in here that haven't seen this masterpiece.

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>mfw it is the end of October

Dave, I love your autistic self, but I do not see a shipping notification in my inbox. I am going to have strong words with you, Dave. Strong words.

>>50044828

Your order is boxed. It's part of a very big queue at a UPS warehouse now.

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>>50044654
>We must meet this reconquest with our courage, our valor, indeed with our very lives to ensure that all-natural human civilization, not jellysnatcher, dominates this galaxy *now and always*!

>>50041345
>He thinks people only haul in High-sec
>Hes never hauled Ice from null to jita in a blockade runner.
>Hes never helped a guy move minerals to low-sec for super cap production.
If it wasn't profitable then entities like Red Frog Freight wouldn't exist.
People pay good money to move their stuff. I know of one dude that hauls supercaps for people to lazy to move them themselves.

>>50044654
>this video contains content from zefr sonypictures, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds
Sony confirmed for jelly sympathizers

Post gimmick/skew lists

1484/1500
AV4 (80)
>Vanguard (474)
Bellerophon (180); 4x Andromeda (168)

>Vanguard (306)
Bellerophon (180); 3x Andromeda (126)

>Line (187)
1x Orion (107); 2x Europa (80)

>Line (374)
1x Orion (107); 2x Europa (80)

>Line (130)
Orpheus (130)

>Pathfinder (246)
2x Medea (78); 2x Medea (78); 3x Echo (90)

>>50043547
It looks sweet on paper, but I think you'll find the inability to hit anything outside your scan range to be somewhat unpleasant.

>>50044488
where do you live anon? Why no moneys?

lowly commodore here.

I have very little knowledge of the fluff, but would like to learn more for myself, and to tell the people I want to introduce DFC to.

Can someone point me in the right direction?

>>50045833
>Can someone point me in the right direction?
OP has download links for all the fluff; DZC core, phases 1 and 2, and DFC core.

>>50045857
What does that even mean though? core? Phase 1 ? 2?

Also, are they novels? I would rather something similar to the WH40k wiki if something exists.

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>>50044860
I want to believe anon.

>>50045902
>What does that even mean though? core? Phase 1 ? 2?
As of now, Dropzone Commander (the ground based game) has three rulebooks; 1.1 (core), phase 1, and phase 2. The fluff is included in the rulebooks, and is styled as an onrunning military report from the perspective of the UCM, along with short stories.

DFC Core is the rulebook that was just released, which also includes fluff.

>Also, are they novels?
Beyond the short stories they sometimes put out in newsletters, I don't think so; I can't find them either.
Keep in mind that Hawk is a very small company, and DZC/DFC is very small compared for 40k and geedubs; it doesn't have the presence or prestige yet to warrant novels.
>I would rather something similar to the WH40k wiki if something exists.
I mean, I think there's a page on 1d4chan, but it's sorely outdated.
There was talk at one point about doing a FAQ and primer pastebin, but we could possibly do a wikia instead.

>>50045902
They're the rulebooks. The core book for DZC was the first one. Reconquest Phase 1 and 2 were the expansions. DFC core is the most recent.

>>50044528
I really want to put the achilles in my list, but that weapon profile man.

It got a kickass torpedo which is really fucking cool, but after it empties his sticky load into the gaping holes of his adversaries, you're left with piddly 4 shots on 2 different weapons which can't fire at the same target.
Sure, 4 shots at 3+ (2+ against heavies) is nice, but it's only 4 shots. The Bell does 8 (2+) shots against any single target while also having laser-abillities and the Orion gets double the shots albeit at a 16.5% reduced hitchance per shot.

Long story short; Is the single torpedo worth it?

>>50046036

People have used the Achilles in real games and apparently it is. Plus it is the cheapest of the PHR Heavy Cruisers as well, so you could use those points to pad out the list with more expensive stuff to compensate.

>>50045694
gimmick lists you say?

The Only Way to Be Sure
1494/1500
AV2 (20)
-Pathfinder w/ 4 (2x2) New Orleans
-Pathfinder w/ 2 New Orleans and 2 Madrid
-Line w/ 2 Madrid
-Line w/ Berlin and 2 Madrid
-Line w/ Berlin and 2 Madrid
-Flag w/ 2 Tokyo

For a potential 68 2+ bombardments in one turn

>>50045780
spoilered for being off topic
I have no money because I'm still a student and can only work part time. I'm not starving or anything, I just can't afford to drop $100+ on hobbies right now.

>>50046036

So the Achilles hits on a 2+ against anything that isn't a frigate, LC or cruiser. That's a lot of stuff and there's going to be at least one ship to gun for in each game, if not multiple

Second those guns both out damage medium guns against their intended target and also put very reliable crits on high armor ships, making them dependable where other guns depend on the enemy failing saves


Also it's cheap as shit for being a HC

>not naming your beijing classes after historical post dreadnought battleships
baka desu senpai

>>50047161
It's clever that the setting's chronological bridge between our modern age and the demilitarized Golden Age of the EAA is a clusterfuck of savage resource wars that nobody bothers to romanticize. Makes it so we can have the worship of Earth military history permeating the UCM's culture without having to make up too many names to bridge the gap between now and actual space travel.

>2672
>he doesn't 4-perth

1496/1500
AV3 -40
>Vanguard -463
Perth; Perth; 2x Lima
>Vanguard -463
Perth; Perth; 2x Lima
>Line -132
Seattle
>Line -149
Madrid; 2x Toulon
>Pathfinder -128
2x New Orleans; 2x New Orleans;
>Pathfinder -108
2x New Orleans; 2x Santiago

>>50048927
>doesn't 4-perth
>group 1, rare.
>math

>>50049162
Oh
:^)
I had thought I was forgetting something

>>50049194
Replace 1 Perth in each group with an Johannesburg and you're golden.

>>50044379
Problem is that a Topaz has the same crit rate except against shields, and it has higher damage potential and nicer arcs as well. It's just better in most cases.

>preordered in September
>left town for almost a month and stuff got here half way through my trip
And I still got it faster than a bunch of cuckstarter whiners lololol

>>50049368
>And I still got it faster than a bunch of cuckstarter whiners lololol
NO BULLY

>>50049194
>I had thought I was forgetting something

No, you didn't forget anything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO6Zk5qkYcA

>>50044488

You've got the rules, anon. Print them out, get somebody to play with. Pins on a map would work at this point.

>and be cool

>>50049408
I dun geddit, /pol/

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Do you guys think Dave will ever sell out and license out a DC game that plays like an improved/modern Empire at War?
Because I would give Dave all of my money for that.

>>50049506
>D*C
>ever getting popular enough for licensed vidya
We can only dream, anon.
DFC mod for BFG:A when
DFC mod for SoaSE when

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>>50049524
>DFC mod for BFG:A when
MY
DIIIIIIIIIIICK

>>50049596
How would you incorporate the different orbitals layers and troop deployment, though?

Or just axe the orbital layers entirely, use strike carriers and troopships to "board" objectives, and just focus on combat?

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>>50049626
As much as I would like to see Orbital layers, yeah, you'd probably have to say screw it and leave them out. Just figure the battle takes place in deep space.

As for strike carriers and troopships...there's only so much you can do in a mod, and they're specifically tied to objectives. With BFG:A, you might have to leave out the smaller ones, or just use them as cheap escorts with the ability to make boarding actions. The cruiser/heavy cruiser class carriers can be kept as normal, I'd think, since they have a fair amount of dakka.

The more I take into account DFC's mechanics, the more I think a straight model swap would be the only likely outcome - scan range, active/passive countermeasures, etc wouldn't work with how the vidya game works.

Still, even in that reduced capacity, I'd play the shit out of it. Hell, thanks to the Tau expansion, there's already a mechanic for implementing burnthrough lasers (Demiurg cutting beam). The res of the game is workable too - strike craft are present, turrets are animated, and HP is easily translatable. Torpedoes would be tricky though.

Would need some solid voice work though - if I click on my Berlin and don't hear something like FOR THE COLONIES OF MAN, It's gonna take the fun out of it.

>>50049626
Frankly youd need to make a completely new game to really do the mechanics of DFC justice, I however would love to see a DZC game ala the wargame series, as I feel that already does just about everything you need except the dropships sorta.

I think id rather a Freespace 1/2 style game set in the DFC/DZC universe, something during the Olympus campaign

>>50049762
>>50049773
What about a homeworld mod? If we're concerned solely about combat, and not objectives, it'd work pretty well.

Isn't there already a sort of "scan and signature" system in place in Homeworld, or am I just imagining things?

>voicelines

>click on Scourge Strix
>THESE FEW HEAR AND OBEY
>CLOSING TO KILLING RANGE

>click on Shaltari Amber
>As you will, Starchief
>Lets show these primitives how to fight!
>Out, Pungari, out! The core is no place for you!

What do Shaltari even sound like? They're supposed to speak English perfectly, without inflection, accent, or gender, but what does that even sound like?

>>50049828
I always assumed it was like microsoft sam, because that's about the only way I can even hope to imagine what something like that sounds like.

>>50049828
Maybe kinda like the voices for the Liir from SOTS?

I think any ground battles in vidya would have to be turn-based. If you look at what you're doing in the game, ground battles in this universe happen really fast.

>>50049899
I can dig it, but I can't quite remember how they sound; there's no voice line compilations for the game on youtube, so far as I can find.

>>50049936
it sounded like multiple people of different genders were speaking at the same time overlapped was kinda wierd i suppose but had little to no distinct gender or accent, essentially all and nothing at the time
>>50049936
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2p9h0dMZ8I

The first voice is the Liir one

>>50049959
>sots2
Is it just me, or does these voice lines have less personality than the original game? I distinctly remember the Liir having a bit more 'oomph' to them.

>>50049967
Sots 2 is a Disappointment on so many levels its hard to really begin with one single thing, but it was the first voice sample I could find. Frankly if that game werent so shit, it would lend itself really really well to DFC combat mechanics wise but it is unfortunately a pile of steaming shit.

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>>50049828
Homeworld: Remastered might not be a bad idea for the mod. Has z axis combat and most of the basic combat mechanics (torpedoes are still gonna be odd). Plus, it has a fairly active mod community.

Watching a full battery of PHR light broadsides ripple fire into a scourge frigate would be beautiful.

>>50050154
>the beautiful clouds of plasma that billows out from a Djinn swarm, coalescing together into a massive wave while the Moscow feebly fires off PD that causes small sections of the wave to turn a bright red and ignite
Oh man you could get some pretty shit going

>>50050154
Torpedos needn't be odd. The game supports big-ass homing ordinance anyway, and special limited-ammo abilities.

Plus you know, big spinal beams. Turreted or broadside volley guns. And zippy energy blastiness...

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anyone got any corvette conversions?

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>>50050321

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>>50050321
>no visible ion cannon
boo

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>The PHR are described as moving fluently and it unnerves the UCM.
>60 fps Webms are described as moving fluently and it unnerves the UCM

PHR Troops are 60fps Webms.

>>50051011
PHR troops are heavily artifacted jpegs.

>>50051032
>Spot the colonist in denial.

>>50051063
>spot the blind and stupid primitive
Truly, if we're being mistaken for UCM then they must be more eloquent than we thought.

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>PHR jammin' with AI development and production of various exotic matter
>Shaltari maxed out the tech tree for particle physics and EM field mechanics over a thousand years ago
When are they going to make up with each other and invent the GBE?

Is there anything preventing you from changing orbital layers on turn 1?

>>50051175

Nope. Although you do have to deploy in High Orbit.

>>50049828
>voicelines

Click on PHR Heracles

>NERF THIS

You know, I've been really liking the idea of Avalon + 2 lima battlegroup- gives you an effective ragne of 24+sig inches assuming 2 movement used on manoeuvring- the basic idea there to just reach out and touch something you want very dead very fast, like say, hedgehog motherships..

Any ideas for UCM Corvettes guys? I've seen some people mentioning HALO Paris Frigates but from what I can see they're only available in a £45 starter set which seems wasteful.

Looking at the sprue pieces I'm not sure it's going to be as easy to hash something together as the Shaltari and Scourge examples above.

>>50051205

Yeah, It's how I'm running my St Petersburg.

I deploy it last in my first turn, set it up opposite to something within 25"+Sig from my deployment edge. You flank it with a pair of Lima's, well I say "flank" they'll actually be heading in the opposite direction because Outlier.
Anyway, the Lima's both Active Scan the target for a major spike, Pete goes Weapons Free and I get a vicious first strike on anything that's gotten a bit too close to the center of the table in the first turn.

If there isn't anything that falls under that catagory, I roll them in under Silent Running, minimum speed and then try to set up for rolling activation across turns.

>>50051233
I prefer the avalon over the pete as while you lose out on some damage potential, you get extra angling potential from being able to hit laser power on standard orders, with the side of guns on weapons free.

I'm thinking deploy last, activate last on 1st turn, activate 1st on 2nd turn for how to get the alpha working properly.

>The most common [dropships] operated by the UCMA's Army Air and Space Corps are the Albatross, Osprey, Condor and Raven.
>DFC book, page 106
Any speculation on the Osprey? I reckon it'll be a more combat-focused dropship, UCM doesn't really have one of those yet.

>>50051143
It's implied that in certain areas the PHR's particle physics tech is superior to that of the Shaltari. They have a wonky tech tree where some areas are just the natural progression of being a hundred or so years ahead of the UCM, while other bits are hyperadvanced shit even the Shaltari don't demonstrate a knack for.

The Dark Matter Cannon, for example, is so advanced that the UCM cannot even understand what it is or what the energy it produces when it shoots things is. They can't make functioning versions of Shaltari tech, but they know what it does (i.e. microwave batteries bombard stuff with microwaves, particle lances accelerate charged particles along a carrier wave, etc). They have no idea what the Dark Matter Cannon is or how it works, going so far as to describe the energy it produces as eldritch.

>>50051751
The DMC shoots tennisballs at the targets.

>>50050324
That's a neat idea, although I feel the djinn's wings would make more sense than the harpy's given the scourge corvette only has CA.

Nakfta needs to thin his paints though.

>>50051772
Nah, it's just Blast Hardcheese standing there hitting baseballs down the barrel. While blindfolded.

>>50051923
Is he holding the bat with his butt cheeks?

>>50051940
Nah, that would shatter it, baseball bats aren't designed to take pressures like that.

>>50051923
>>50051940
>>50051946
>Blast Hardcheese
You mean Marcus Borros

Readig through the PDFs- is there any benefit to contesting a sector?

As holding them is required for contesting / controlling a cluster, and gives you the use of their special abilities if applicable, holding clusters is the main VP gainer, with contesting a cluster just being something to help you catch up VPwise, but I've not seen any benefit to contesting a sector.

So is there something I've missed, or is sector contesting just "you have troops there but haven't got the full takeover, and so it doesnt get you anything and is just there for rules completeness" ?

>>50051923
>Grand Navy Heracles class battleship 'Coveleski'

>>50051751
>while other bits are hyperadvanced shit even the Shaltari don't demonstrate a knack for.
Aren't the Shaltari supposed to have "beaten" science for the most part, being so advanced that it literally takes them hundreds of years to make even iterative improvements?
I wouldn't put it past them to purposely leave the really cool shit home (like DMCs) for the sake of HONARABU COMBAT.

>>50051751

Part of that is because they have had access to Shaltari tech for years. Normally when something is deployed to a market, the ability to reproduce it is made significantly easier. This is because you can see the proof of concept is sound. You can pick through destroyed ships for some parts. And you can just steal it as well.

Conflict with PHR is new and it is hard to get infiltrators into there. Difficult direct engagements with the PHR fleet and the requirements of reconquest mean there hasn't been enough time to get an real knowledge on their more advanced weapon systems.

>>50051449
Probly, either that or a cheaper half-way point between the Condor and the Albatross, for carrying 6/4 units.

Having a single transport to move in 3sabre+3rapier would be nice.

>>50052303
Yes

>>50052290
They're supposed to be extremely high tier, but not ridiculous Culture level.

The White Sphere itself is explicitly stated to be a technology even they can't replicate and don't understand. Whatever built it is way ahead of the Shaltari.

>>50052397
>They're supposed to be extremely high tier, but not ridiculous Culture level.
So where exactly do they fall on the scale? I'd say they're post-eldar, but I'm not really that sure.

Do we know anything about their infrastructure, "civilian life", and manufacturing capability?

>>50052431
They have better science than post-Fall Eldar.

Dark Eldar and Imperial Eldar, probably not. Some of the shit DEldar can do, as even just a shadow of the old Imperial Eldar, is beyond ridiculous. They have pistols that remotely siphon hyperdense matter from black holes and fire it, collapsing anything the projectile hits in a burst of tidal forces. They can change matter into cognizant light and back again. They can put black holes in tiny boxes. They can manipulate time. They can regrow a person from a few scraps of cellular tissue, regrowing their consciousness and 'soul' with it (this is outright better than how the Shaltari achieve immortality, as they have to transfer their consciousness from one body to the other - the DEldar can literally just grow it back).

And we know next to nothing about their civilian lives or industrial capacity.

>>50052521
To be fair Shaltari don't get actual magic and don't have souls.

>>50052521
That said, 40K would have immense trouble with Dropworld ground forces, simply because they use their technology in a pragmatic fashion.

>>50052537
True.

Dark Eldar don't do magic either, though. They can't, the Warp is closed to them. They've intentionally let their psychic talents wither so as to better hide from Slaanesh.

>>50052543
Yeah; the IG would love to get their hands on those Sabres.
Additionally, I bet the UCM would love to tinker with a lasrifle or two; how do you think they stack up to their rifles?

Can you have multiple defense batteries in one sector?
Do batteries only shoot at things dropped in their specific sector?

>>50052588
Yes, but it doesn't help you shoot things down better, it's just insurance to have extra in case any get destroyed.

They shoot at things coming down on their cluster, or the space station, so no, their effect isn't confined to just their sector.

>>50052588
>Can you have multiple defense batteries in one sector?
Yes, but only one counts as "defending"; the rest are just there as backup if one is destroyed.
>Do batteries only shoot at things dropped in their specific sector?
Nope, they defend the entire cluster.

>>50052563
Lasrifles seem way superior to UCM rifles. Just logistically, not to mention in terms of pure hitting power.

What the Imperium would find utterly infuriating about the UCM is their active countermeasures. In 40K, a railgun shot is pretty much guaranteed to kill the heaviest of tanks at extreme range. In Dropworld, countermeasures can negate them, and make anything firing any slower than that ineffective at all but the closest ranges. A Russ would have to drive into a Saber's face to fire its main cannon at it.

Lascannons and such would do extremely well, but they're not commonplace weapons. A company of Imperial Guard will often treat their one lascannon as a prized relic, because they ain't getting another one anytime soon.

>>50052563
>compact laser weapons that are trivially easy to produce, draw ammo from any heat source and cut through active countermeasures
The UCM would orgasm instantly if given Imperium laser weapons.

>There is certainly hope for the future despite the setbacks as free humans once more walk on worlds formerly under the yolk of the scourge.
>yolk
L-lewd.

>>50049980
;-;
God, I wanted that game to be good so badly.

How does this list look as a starter fleet UCM list

UCM commodore- AV3, (40)

Vanguard group- Moscow (163)
Line group- San Francisco, 2x New Orleans (175)
Line group- Seattle (132)
Pathfinder group- Tulon / Taipei x2 (70/78)

Not sure if gun or missile frigates would be the better choice there, but it comes out to 580 or 588 points in total out the starter box.

>>50052751

I would recommend building that San Francisco as a Berlin or Rio for your own good

Toulons or taipeis work fine

>>50052849
You sure I should get rid of the troopship? I don't fancy only having 2 strike carriers as my only way of securing objectives.

>>50052627
>>50052671
>Orks loot a bunch of Sabres
>stick Gretchin in them
[scared]

>>50052897
If you're playing a starter fleet game, you're somewhere around 600 points.
You don't need anything more than 2 Nawlins to score.

>>50052751
San frans work better as a later addition, a Berlin would probably serve you better now.

>>50052908
>Orks loot a Diamond
[overt terror]

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>>50052945
>Orks loot a Diamond
>None of them have the personal anti-grav devices necessary
>Diamond resembles nothing more than a tumbling, flaming, WAAGGH-ing Ork bouncy-castle in space

>>50052973
>orc rok gets hit by a scourge torpedo
>orcs enjoy a roight propah scrap, and drive them off
>board Dragon so they can fight some more

>>50052671
Remember that while lasguns can shoot straight through countermeasures, anything that HAS countermeasures is probably going to shrug off the beam. Lasbolts drill through light armour and blow massive chunks out of organics by causing the moisture in them to explosively evaporate, but they barely scratch thick armour.

And lascannons, somehow, are much harder to produce. This may just be because the schematics the Imperium has for them are flawed and they refuse to innovate, though.

>>50052751
>>50052849
>>50052918

What would be a good expansion to take it up to 1K points or so?

I was thinking + troopship, + 1 more strike carrier, then maybe just a bit more gun frigate escorting things, maybe one or two extra cruisers?
As while I like the idea of an avalon + lima sniper unit, that's probably only going to be viable in clash level fleet due to heavy battlegroup restrictions.

Another titbit from the fluff, it's mentioned that the scourge have a grav-tank called the "Executor", so presumably that's one we'll see in the future.

>>50053194
I want the executioner to be an IF weapon, and i want itto Come with a scout and support unit called Judge and Jury respectivly.

Or wait. That can be the namesake of my Peter + Double Lima combo.

>>50053187

You'll need firepower. Troopship + 2 nawlins is alright but any points after needs to be firepower

>>50053342
I was thinking Excalibur avalon + scabbard and shield named limas for the same squad.

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>>50050321
>corvette
relatively easy conversion from the heavy cruiser crest.

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>So how often do you figure you'll run a second battle cruiser? Honestly, outside of the scourge I'm not sure how viable that is compared to a cheaper battleship. PHR maybe, but only.because the BB options are so lackluster.

>>50053512
Been reading the kickstarter comments again or something? I haven't looked at those in weeks, it was just too depressing.

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>>50053512
>PHR maybe, but only.because the BB options are so lackluster.
I'm assuming you're quoting from somewhere else, but NIGGA WHAT

>>50053512
>reading the cuckstarter or normiebook
>ever

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>I just want to put this out there. I think the Johannesburg makes all (except Tokyo) UCM BBs more or less not worth their points... Not gonna use stronger words. It's such a good ship with only a few drawbacks when compared to the other 2 BBs.

>>50053641

I see it as the Hood to Beijing's Prince of Wales, desu.

>reading KS comments
>this Lobokai guy
Literally worse than Ian, Oldnick, and Khell.

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>10x "Perseus is okay in this corner situation where it has 4 seperate targets to shoot at ignore the other 90% where it's suboptimal to the Orion" posts
>it's a "Leonidas having wrong arcs is intentional" episode

I wonder how viable a heavy brawler UCm fleet could be- multiple moscows, a Beijing, avalon- lots of heavy tonnage ships with the aim of just getting to murderfuck range asap and going weapons free- aiming t ocompensate for lower numbers with masses of turret based murder, while the troopships go for the points in the chaos.

>>50053711
>it's a "Leonidas having wrong arcs is intentional" episode
W U T

>>50053693
Why do you inflict such a thing on yourself?

>>50053731
I crave pain and misery; it let's me know that I can still feel.

>>50053717

So the typical non cruiser spam UCM list

>>50053763
Oh goody, I do love the idea of just blasting away with turrets.

I have to say that I do prefer the Moscow to the pete, simply due to the ease of blasting everything when it weapons frees.

What's the cruiser spam lists? Just lots of BTL light cruisers, with less in the way of heavy cruiser deathstacks?

I'm not as familiar on UCM- I used to be thinking of going PHR but I've recently been swayed by the "would you like to know more"

>>50053858

St Pete isn't really intuitive to use unlike the Avalon

Moscows okay but just remember it's got just about the same survivability as your basic cruisers.

A UCM cruiser spam list would be a ton of seattles, Berlins and Rios. It can put a very respectable amount of damage out on normal orders

Remind me again, Did Shaltari get their Shields against torps?
Did they get to reroll if they failed and have a booster?
>Why not?

>>50054184

They do seem to get their shields against torps but do not get the Opal reroll because the Opal requires a group to attack the ship for it to trigger and torpedoes are not in any group.

For this same reason shaltari don't get the shield reroll against bombers either

>>50054206
Thanks. I have to say it sounds kinda against the intent of the shields, but it is RAW.

>>50054222

Why? Shields work against any incoming projectile

>>50054222
Does it? Shields act like they do in DZC, forcing an armour save against all non-particle weapons. There's no real reason for big missiles to be an exception.

>>50054238
>>50054294
Anon means that the rerollable save using the Opal's shield boost ability doesn't work against torpedoes or bombers.
The standard shield save of course works.

>>50052397
Personally, I'm treating the tennis ball as a Special Circumstances Mind. Preparing the PHR for contact with the wider galaxy.

>>50053082
the point would be while the lasgun itself might not be a game changer, the UCM is not ass backwards like the imperium and so would attempt to figure out how it works, that level of miniturization might lead to the mass production of same power but more compact scimitar lasers, possibly even ones that can be articulated, and now the Sabre M2A2 has an E11 infinite range weapon, with marksman touch, and everyone else in the setting heads for the hills

>>50054420

I think the bigger issue of 40k vs Drop is that 40k ships can engage each at ranges that are orders of magnitude larger and have a much greater thrust for combat ships

>>50054443
I don't think anyone here would contest that 40k dominates the space game; a Drop fleet might be able to work reasonably well as a raiding force, but they'd get fucked as soon as they approached a dedicated group of warships.

Then again, the signature on 40k ships must be insane.

>>50054465
>Then again, the signature on 40k ships must be insane

This. A Lunar Class Cruiser is what, anywhere from 3-5km long, right (depending on source)? They'd be able to spot something that large, a shielded hunk of metal many kilometer's long, from an enormous distance.

Whether the weaponry would be sufficient would be another matter entirely, but it would be an interesting fight.

>>50054465

40k signatures are probably quite big but even Eldar can be targeted by imperials at moon to earth distances unless they're specifically trying to hide.

>>50054507

Pretty reasonable considering void shields would always be up and that the lunar is 3x the size of a Heracles. The only issue is that the imperials would most likely be able to shoot back

Also the flip side is that BFG frigates are fully atmospherically capable

>>50054507
We can probably make a rough estimate of how length influences scan, at least for the UCM.

3" sig is about 600 meters
6" sig is about 1k meters
12" sig is about 1.3k meters

Let's round those off to some nice even numbers, and say that the signature doubles every 500 meters in length, as that pattern holds on average among the UCM, Scourge, and PHR.

.5km is 3"
1km is 6"
1.5km is 12"
2km is 24"
2.5km is 48", or 4', or 1,000km in real scale.
...
5km is 1,536", or 128', or 32,000km in real scale.

This seems right, but at the same time, it doesn't.
Then again, as you said, being able to hit 40k ships is one matter; being able to damage is entirely another.

>>50054537
>40k signatures are probably quite big but even Eldar can be targeted by imperials at moon to earth distances unless they're specifically trying to hide.

In that case, these values >>50054608 are horrendously small, especially since the scan range of most UCM ships only adds on another 125km.

>>50054608
>>50054537
Hrm. I would think that hitting targets the size of DFC ships with anything but lances would be extremely difficult for the Imperial Navy, considering the majority of DFC ships are around escort size (~1km at most, Shaltari BB excluded). Their doctrine would probably revolve around a heavy application of lance-armed escorts.

However, the universes are vastly different when it comes to how tech is applied, so it's really a crap shoot.

>>50054686
Lances are the only things that need to hit.

Macrocannons work by getting a house sized exploding shell into the target's area code.

>>50054660

I would just chalk it up to a combination of 40k optics and sensors being extremely powerful and pretty strong energy signatures

>>50054686

Imperial ships *can* hit escort sized ships at long range though and can spam DFC sized torpedoes at that range.

>>50054714

Office building*

>>50054714
True, I hadn't considered the blast radius of their monstrous Freudian shells.

Now I wonder though about DFC fleet tactics against something like an IN line cruiser. If it can hit you from the same distance you can scan it from, and is packing larger (but generally inaccurate) weaponry, is heavily shielded (comparatively), and extremely durable...that's a hell of a challenge.

>>50054769

I think UCM scan ranges cap out at around 1000km even for absolutely monstrous ships like the lunar, who with shields and it's gigantic hull would easily have a sig of like 48"+, I could believe it to be exponential compared to a Heracles and give the Lunar a 100" signature.

The issue is that the lunars can apparently fire at a UCM sized vessel with a moderate chance of hitting from 382240km or about 18347" (or roughly 1528 feet) in DFC board terms, so their scan range is going to be fairly impressive in comparison


But anyway this is dumb, DZC comparisons with 40k are cooler

>>50054749
we dont know if thier sensors are really that good, or how well stuff like holo fields work, most of the fluff for battlefleet gothic is very inconsistent and variable, even for 40k standards. Makes it really hard to tie down specific numbers and or modes of operation, especially if you try and compare it with DFC which has a more concrete unified set of fluff and descriptions at the moment.

A between universe fight would come down to sensors vs signature, and how effective void shields are at stopping the type of projectiles thrown around in DFC.

>>50054840
>DZC comparisons with 40k are cooler
In this I will agree. I would love to see a Scourge vs Tyranid fight.

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>>50054865
You know...we could just ask Andy Chambers. He did work on both games. It might be a silly question, but he seems like a bit of a silly guy. Might shed some light.

>>50054865

I'm not even thinking of fluff examples, I'm just thinking that in game terms BFG can be fought with both an earth sized planet and it's moon on the same board with ships exchanging fire at that range.

I haven't even brought up any potential firepower differences which honestly would be gigantic.

That's why I think a comparison of ground forces is cooler as they're much closer together

>>50054886

Good idea, I shot him a message on Facebook.

>>50053422
Very nice indeed

40k tech is too inconsistent to quantify properly.
A Lasgun may well be one of the more measurable parts of it. But shit like their armor is impossible. Some written depictions suggest properties worse than WW2 armor.

The starships by their nature are preposterously powerful. But then you add in stuff like 'crewed by slaves pulling chains'.

>>50055202
>But then you add in stuff like 'crewed by slaves pulling chains'.

>UCM: That's horrible! You could use those slaves to crew more ships!
>PHR: That's horrible! Letting filthy plebes onto your ships!
>Scourge: That's horrible! All those wasted hosts!
>Shaltari: I wonder if the Pungari are strong enough for that...

Putting my Heavy PHR cruisers together.
By the Sphere these things have a lot of posable wings. :|

>>50055256
Maybe it's an advanced-empire thing.

>>50054443
>>50054465
I think Shaltari and some PHR weapons would be pretty horrible even in 40K.

Really, though, PHR are the only factions that could ever become a huge threat. They have one incredible advantage that none of the others have - they can instantly travel ANYWHERE, AT ANY DISTANCE without needing any kind of beacon or node, and without having to rely on tutame ex infernis bullshit.

The PHR could raid unprepared planets, steal stuff to reverse engineer and make their shit 40Kworthy, and literally fly off anywhere without consequences. The logistical advantage they have combined with their capacity for innovation and superfast technological growth is pretty incredible in 40K.

>>50055692

Shaltari has no node limitations too.

>>50055692
>The logistical advantage they have combined with their capacity for innovation and superfast technological growth is pretty incredible in 40K.
This; they're Tau turned up to 11.
At the same time tho, the fact they're taking orders from an alien superintelligence would make them #1 on the admech's shitlist.

>>50055877
>>50055692
It also makes me wonder - is it ever stated in DZC/DFC fluff how fast their warp travel is? Warp travel in the 40k universe is incredibly random, but even the shortest range jumps can take days. Of course, you might arrive at a date before you left, but that seems to not be terribly common.

If DFc has nearly instant travel times (as evidenced by a fleet waiting to jump on a portable node that only had a battery life of a few minutes would seem to indicate), that is an absolutely massive advantage, and one that would mean that the DFC folks could always determine where and when to fight, if they even had to.

>>50055877
I think they do.

It's mentioned in the book that jumping anywhere without a node is unheard of.

>>50056029
>is it ever stated in DZC/DFC fluff how fast their warp travel is?

Instantaneous no matter the distance, apparently.

>>50056029

That depends if there are any other limitations on DFC's jump drives, such as max travel distance or the difficulties of getting to somewhere you don't have a node in place for.

>>50056036

>It is well known that the shaltari have been able to initiate pinpoint accurate foldspace jumps to anywhere in the Galaxy without the need for nodes at the destination for thousands of years.

DFC corr p193

What things do you want to see for the factions eventually?

I desperately want a specialized cruiser/heavy cruiser for the PHR that is essentially an Orion with neutron missile bays on the front. Maybe even neutron micro-torpedoes or something of the sort, that have a range of thrust (but no double thrust shenanigans) rather than scan and are limited to F/S rather than being all round like standard close action weapons.

I feel like those missile launch bays would look really cool along the top of the cruiser chassis.

>>50056088

DMC dedicated heavy cruiser for PHR?

>>50056058
see
>>50056063
Shaltari and PHR can warp over any distance with pinpoint accuracy without a node.

UCM and Scourge can warp over any distance with extreme inaccuracy, or pinpoint accuracy if they have a node nearby. This is why they can't find the Shaltari or PHR homeworlds, whereas they can just go wherever.

>>50056063

Unhuman technology is nowhere near urchins.

>>50056100
Can't really see that, would make the heracles a bit redundant.

>>50056058
Only limitation is the inaccuracy of the jump; iirc, UCM drives are perfectly accurate up to a few light-hours away.