Song of Swords: Meanwhile, in Poland

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>>50012309
Additional material:

Here's a walkthrough on creating a character
http://paste2.org/aKfOBmWJ

Here's a walkthrough on weapon schools for SoS 1.9.9 with examples
http://paste2.org/6OyOsFM3

Ballad weapons and calibers converted to their real world counterparts: https://paste2.org/Hp7eDsa7

Sexy pictures from the devs showing what the guns in ballad were based on: https://mega.nz/#F!R4Bh0JxB!NCf0FyXqxcmaE2mG3YZKxw

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>>50012309
Just to get the pot stirring:
We've all seen With Fire and Sword at this point, but does anyone here actually know anything about the Khmelnytsky Uprising? It seems like a pretty tragic event, just reading about it.

The Cossacks in question had been raiding the Ottomans for years and had basically stalled Turkish incursions into the Ukraine and Europe by themselves on multiple occasions through incessant harassment and looting. However, when told that they couldn't do this anymore because of Commonwealth treaties with the Turks, they got mega pissed, and combined with other grievances they eventually revolted.

Apparently at the time the Cossacks were known primarily for being really badass infantry, which seems incongruous with the stereotype, and fearing the Polish cavalry they brought in the Tatars from Crimea to provide them with horse that could compete with the Poles. This fucked up their reputation, however, because it meant letting Musselmen enslave a bunch of Christians, and the Cossacks had thitherto seen as defenders of Christians from the Eternal Easterner.

Does anyone know more about how the Cossacks fought at that time? What were they doing that would make their infantry stronger than the Poles? In the film they have these sick war-wagons that they use to make forts, I don't know how historical that is.

>>50012309
What's this about dwarves? I thought the whole point of this game was that it's fucking knife ears: the setting.

>>50012596
>which seems incongruous with the stereotype, and fearing the Polish cavalry they brought in the Tatars from Crimea to provide them with horse that could compete with the Poles
Not really. They simply had to ally with Crimean Tatars to protect their backs from Tatars raiding behind their backs during the war. At the end of important battle Tatars captured Khmelnistky and fled leaving his army without a leader. In short, fuck Crimean Tatars.

>>50012667
I'm just citing the wikipedia article. God knows those aren't legendary for their accuracy. Part of the reason why I'm curious about Cossacks of the time in war.

what the fuck is this "you might like" ad shot at the bottom?

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>>50012814
Cossacs were famous for their infantry and sea raids on Ottomans, Commonwealth was the cavalry power. The problem with uprising was to due with the fact that Polish king, Vladislaus IV, had a plan to integrate Cossacks as a third state into the Commonwealth, alongside Poland and Lithuania, on top of increasing the number of registered (on military payroll) Cossacks, but he died shortly before the events of 1648. The magnates were hellbent on breaking Cossacks and forcing them into serfdom as they colonized Ukraine and the royal plan was upsetting their balance. All the while a lot of Cossacks had a grievance against the nobility that over the decades went over to the Polish side and turned from Ruthenian boyars into Polish szlachta, adopting Catholicism and Latin as their culture.

When the king died and the idea of an expanded register fell through, Cossacks went up in arms. Two hetmans and their deputies went over to quell the unrest but after they were defeated, (due to drunkenness of Lubomirski and ill preparation of others) Cossacks felt comfortable enough to make deals with Tatars and to rally bigger numbers. The rest is in the film and in history.

t. Pole.

>>50012596
Lots of muskets and tenacity, to my knowledge.

>>50013837
A way to keep 4chan alive.

Playing an SoS game in Rokugan before my club Halloween party. Pretty good day.

>>50013837
Huh. I'm seeing the new ads at the top.

>>50015822
It's both for me.

>>50015945
Well clearly 4chan/Revcontent just hates you.

>>50013837
4chin isn't making me money so prease buy 4chin pass

Why don't we post more Revvy?

>>50016775
Who is Revvy?

>>50016775
Because best girls must be conserved.

>>50016822
isnt revvy into femdom?

>>50017145
When it pays the bills. She's also got a solid case of prison gay.

>>50017145
How does that answer the question?

>>50017145
No idea, I don't know what it is

>>50017340
revy is a character from the manga/anime black lagoon

>>50017443
Oh, so what's special about her?

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Lads, is it time to give up? Is Soon a lie?

>>50017477
It's memery, Jimmy joked about her being best girl, apparently everyone who watches the show disagrees.

>>50017797
Nay. I have it on good authority that Soon has reached its ninth epoch

>>50016822
>jimmy attempting to expand his waifu folder
How about you release a game first you homosexual?

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>>50018907
Speaking of releasing games, chapter 12 of BoB is out.

http://www.grandheresy.com/downloads/

>>50019133
Seems legit. Hopefully we get an sosbupdate soon.

>>50012596
>We've all seen With Fire and Sword at this point
I have not.

>>50019133
This looks very barebones. I don't like that Reflex/Wits doesnt fighters react and move faster in a fight.

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>>50016822
One v you infidel.

>>50016822
Cancerous, characterless shitter that makes all musclegirl-fags (i.e. everyone in this thread) furiously erect.

God damn I wish that show had been better.

>>50021857
The whole film is on youtube, subtitled. It's really good.

Since there's a thread I may as well pop my quick question in:

In the SoS book it says that Charisma is whatever 3 stats divided by two. Is that supposed to be divided by three? I have a player who keeps throwing like 15+ charisma dice at every problem. I keep telling him 'charisma isn't mindcontrol' but my wife put me on a low salt diet and his reactions are endangering that.
I mean he's getting saltier and saltier

>>50012596
I know they were famous for using a sort of short spear, I remember learning the name at some point in a history class but I can't remember it now. They were also obviously known for being sick with the saber.

I also know that Sienkiewicz did embellish the savagery of the Cossacks significantly, even borrowing from the United States' conflicts with certain Indian tribes to make them seem more savage. The real Cossacks were very disciplined and fearless fighters, not at all a rabble of thugs. Well, maybe they were that too, but they were a very orderly rabble of thugs.

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>>50014253
>>50012596
They also used tabors during battles making them close to untouchable by cavalry.
The same tactics was used by hussites.

>>50025419
Yes, there were disciplined groups of Cossaks. There were some that stayed loyal to the crown (Poland) after Chmielnicki uprising, because they were true soldiers, and they felt that soldiers duty is above all.
But vast majority of these people were poor and simple minded peasantry. They spent most of their times farming, hunting or fishing when they weren't riding for one or the other land lord.
Put a weapon to their hand, take out the law and group morality goes to hell.

>>50012596
>>50021857
That depends if you mean the movie or the game system.

>>50023855
Who would you rather bump uglies with, eskarne or revvy? Eskarne has the looks, but I think Revvy would be able to keep things interesting longer.

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>>50025799
You should stop. I do not know what you are trying to accomplish here, but I detect that you are posting in poor faith.

>>50024757
>Since there's a thread
There's always a thread.

I have no idea so bump.

>>50024757
It is intentionally by 2.

>>50019170
Anyone tested this out yet?

>>50029741
There is an example of skirmish rules in action so yes

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I like that Space Pinochet coexists with Space Hitler and Space Mussolini in Ballad.

>>50031780
Wait, is this all true? Do space-Cadorna's dumb ideas actually work too?

>>50031780
It's more like space-Bismarck, because he's like immortal now or something.

Space Hitler is probably the court painter or something.

>>50032439
Nah, the Lucani don't get completely fucked. It sounds more like there's a Space Messe or Space Baistrocchi in charge.

>>50033003
>Italy as an actual power
wew lad

>>50033003
No Decimation? Lame.

>>50032439
Yeah, Space Chile has some generalissimo who throws a bunch of commies straight into the underspace on his birthday every year.

Were the Unkindlies official material or homebrew?

>>50012309
So... when the game is gonna be finished?

Last time I've checked, it was supposed to be done by end of October.

>>50027073
but why, though? Why is Charisma so damn high?

>>50038912
Because convincing anyone of anything was really hard before.

>>50038535
I'm pretty sure they're official, Jimmy has spoken of them in lore before and released the rules himself.

>>50038535
Yeah they're super official, their blood brew stat boosting stuff was the first real taste of magic we got.

Fellow people who will never run an SoS game because their group only runs narrativist shit, where would you set an SoS game if you could?

I'm partial to Dace myself. Lots of opportunity for bloody republican action, and you can shoot Jimmy's waifu.

>>50038616
It will be done in June 2014.

>>50041696
>first
>implying it's not the only we'll ever get

>>50024757
It currently is by two, but it should probably be by three.

>>50024757
>>50040658
The social combat system really just needs a more thorough rework. It's not as bad as pre-Ballad initiative, but it needs something.

>>50042626
>The social combat system
We don't have social combat system, do we?

>>50042642
That's rather what I'm getting at.

>>50042642
"Use your charisma to mind control" is rudimentary social combat.

>>50042662
Rudimentary social combat would be "I initiate defensive mind grapple, 8 dice. Next turn I trap his mind with words and break his brain zone X my charisma dropkick next exchange, Level 5 Wound, he is my loyal puppet now"

>>50042759
I'd be down for that.

>>50042570
Dace: Horrible country, full of ratniggers, brutal satire of "le serene republic" meme. Has Gizka and the hedgehog snek man.

Krajina: Slavs oppressing the Eternal Anglo, longbows are illegal, sad eels. Pretty great campaign stories from this place so far.

Kaselreich: Cursed forest, horrible Imperial bureacracy, Germans. The Kasonic Order sounds pretty great for antagonists or allies.

Iber: Spanish swordsmen, Moors on Chocobos, Elf-Basques who eat people.

I'd do it in the Reich because my players don't know anything about Medieval Germany so it'd feel very fantastic to them.

>>50042570
Historical:
Fall of the Ming
Napoleonic Wars
Renaissance city-states, dicking around as condottieri or perpetuating pointless family feuds

Vosca:
Intrigue, Honour and Wine in Galli
Burdinadin clean up team and auxiliaries sent to investigate a Glade gone dark
Super Sentai Paladin Team Go!

Other Fantasy:
Island hoping Bronze Age relic collecting
Some pointless war for salt
Mage-Agents of the Crown sent on covert operations for Queen and Country

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>>50042570
I ran a KODP themed game set on a bunch of islands, which were populated by iron-age tribes.

It was actually set in the Broken Sea of Tattered Realms, the tribes were the proto-human and Dinnic cultures that eventually came to populate the rest of Vosca
Also I'm Jimmy Rome

>>50042570
I love the anachronistic medieval special forces stuff that always seems to come across as an excuse for MGS with knights, which I am totally down for. Best places for that would be Dace as we saw with Vlatkofecht, or in the slivers for the Clach frogmen. GOATfecht also did it great in Kurtiye, so really I think anywhere would work.

>>50044525
Jenoesa seemed like a good spot too. Crusades solid snek anyone?

>>50042759
I think separate time scales are important. One of the things that make WoD social combat a shitshow is how it's assumed that all social combat will occur over the course of months and everything is balanced around that.

I feel like Near and Far modes of social combat might be important. Middle one isn't really necessary I don't think. Grand strategy is emergent, so there's no reason to make it specific to Far. Far should just be everything where more than 1-2 encounters are planned for and leveraged upon, because any system is going to break down if it tries to plan too far ahead, but SOME structure is nice.
Additionally, the manipulation of crowds should be separate from the manipulation of individuals. At least for Far modes, manipulation of crowds heavily depends on one's ability to administrate, rather than pure charisma.


I propose the adoption of some pseudoscientific principles of social manipulation. They tend to be more evocative, intuitive and easily implementable within narratives, despite being factually incorrect.

If SoS is already turning slightly modular, I would posit that brewing ideas for the engineers of the human soul could lead to fun

>>50045381
I'm inclined to agree. Though nobody likes microexpression reading as a mechanic, makes it too hard to justify non-modern people being able to deceive at all.

>>50042759
That'd be similar to the Game of Thrones RPG, could work.

>>50049227
Ah yes, the Protectorate is clearly a feasible long term government entity.
Nothing to see here, move along.

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I can't remember, did the Void have a Spanish Civil War type thing, or is the only voidSpain lore we have that they flipped South America to dump all the pesky natives with half the fuss?

>>50049946
Who the what? Explain this lore to me.

>>50051242
I think the Not!Spanish empire was more successful in general, but we have no real indication of what went on with them during recent times.

>>50051325
In Laserwhaleverse, Chiron keeps a bunch of conquered countries as semi-autonomous protectorates who they use to fight proxy-wars and to avoid expending their own manpower early in conflicts.

The problem is this requires that these countries be heavily militarized, so Chiron is basically encouraging a bunch of people who hate them to stockpile arms and raise huge militaries. The arrangement is not sustainable, and will almost certainly result in another huge war.

>>50051612
AFTER-HALLOWEEN SPOOK TUESDAY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4YH1xzF35g

There is a town in Galli, in the Duchy of Lutancoup, where people go missing and forgotten.
Not homeless people or drunks, but respectable members of society. Town officials. Craftsmen whose assignments are due, tradesmen whose debts must be paid. They simply vanish. A Dacian steel firm was the first to notice, when an enormous shipment of forged pickaxe heads went unpaid for, and filed a complaint with the Baron of the region. When it went unanswered, they filed a complaint with the Count. When that went unanswered, they filed a complaint with the Duke. When that went unanswered, they closed off all shipments to the country until the King sent them a reply:

"What is a Lutancoup?" the reply came, "and where in my demesne does it reside?"

It is in the center of the country, not a few leagues south of the capital. Yet no man in Galli can name the province, nor can any recall its space existing. What was thirty leagues has become fifteen. What was fifty has become ten. The place has been erased from every Gallian map, and every Gallian mind. But the Dacians, the Illegosi, the Kamens, they remember.

What sits at the dark heart of this nonexistent province? Men have been dispatched to find the truth. One group of five returned as three, and insisted they had found nothing. They also insisted that there had only ever been three of them. Many agents did not return at all. None could attest to events--even, in one instance, under torture.

Only one man returned with information--the mad servant of a Gallain inspector, who spoke of screaming and mouths in the streets that ate his master.

The King of Galli has quietly placed a large reward on answers. The Dacian Steel Export Guild has started assembling a team of madmen to investigated. The Unkindlies have recently reported that a raven from the King's coop may have gotten lost in Galli...

>>50051954
kek, finally this spooky shit was giving me a headache.

>>50043797
Wait are you Blind Hitler dude?
>>50042570
Narrativists should fucking love SoS.

>>50051954
that's at least 4 spook.

>>50042570
I'm thinking about, finally, introducing this game to my group. Starting with random fechts, instead of full blown scenario.
Some ideas:
>Tavern brawl and/or avenging lost honor in renaissance Italy. Caravaggio-style dueling dickstabbery ensues. Not many scenarios better suited for introducing players to this very core concept of SoS.
>Romans, after some nightly debauchery, are returning home through Suburbium. Suddenly they find themselves prey in a decadent manhunt run by patricians craving the excitement thrill of taking someone's life.
>Late medieval jousting tournament. Probably lighthearted one, like in a Knight's Tale Are there even jousting rules?

>>50051954
been watching some re:zero ya fuckin weeb?

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>>50047709
Well, microexpressions aren't pseudoscientific, just not studied rigorously in-depth enough yet.

I'm thinking more in the vein of manipulating people's humors (individual Near has an obvious way to do so, but aggregate humors could work for collective Near, and transubstantiation for Far for example) and playing to the related character traits.
Social skills let you decipher a person's temperament, the ways in which he's most easily persuaded or dissuaded (maybe use early models of rhetoric and assign a preference for each method of argumentation, with WIL giving points that can be distributed or something?), as well as attempt to transubstantiate in case their temperament combined with their preferences don't allow for an argument in favor of your own goals, or just roll with modifiers based on using these aspects properly.
Maybe taking some cues from video games with social combat systems like Desu Sexu: Human Relations?

It's disgustingly convoluted but could be fun.

The problem arises of keeping it from turning into a boring rolling simulator of "find the square, put in square hole"
One could conceal the numbers and simply imply through descriptions what they are, but that makes the communication of the GM and the players (and the social acumen of both, as the GM needs to know what behavior implies what, and the players likewise), so this is a poor option

Another could be to make social combat interactive like regular combat, have the defender do stuff too. It does make social combat drag on a bit more, and usually social combat is a 1-on-1 thing so others might get bored, but I think using the mechanics of declaring orientation and emphasizing these might help. But then you can end up with rock-paper-scissors if the orientation is too important, and an unimportant waste of time if not.

>>50049227
This isn't official art, is it?
Because it sure looks fitting

>>50055750
It's art from Degenesis, though yeah there definitely is some overlap.

>>50055737
Well let's capture a classic example of real social combat, in the format of a debate. Fighting each other for dominance of a crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKiBk3zG4CY

In this we see speaker A set up a simple "Insult" manoeuvre analogous to a strike or thrust to damage B in the crowds eye's, B counters with a "Comeback" manoeuvre analogous to a riposte a risky play but B is confident enough that his reply can raise the stakes with quick wit and embarrass A.

>>50056492
Ahah.

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>>50056492
>Crowd erupts into cheers
Jesus fuck we've become Rome.

>>50056492
While this is a clear social combat and easy to model, the problem is that a pure "debate in front of crowd" format is kind of inflexible and doesn't cover most of the cases in which you'd want such a thing. Crowd HP isn't really appropriate in most cases, and making clever and quick jibes like that either means that the bulk of the social interaction won't be heard by the players but will be "then I say something clever" or will put the onus on the character to match his character's ability to think on his feet, which may not properly align with stats. Not that this problem is entirely avoidable.

>>50057976
Perhaps this is the ultimate fate of all great democracies.

>>50057976
USA isn't Rome until self proclaimed successor states start cropping up.

>>50055737
>I'm thinking more in the vein of manipulating people's humors
SoS is so setting-independent though, it'd be a shame to change that.

>Maybe taking some cues from video games with social combat systems like Desu Sexu: Human Relations?
That game has shitty social combat though.
Really, this is the stem of the problem: There just aren't really examples of good social combat to draw from. The dancing jibes of Socrates and Voltaire should be as fun and dramatic as the dancing blades of Gilgamesh and Hercules, but there is literally no game where that is the case, and thus no good place to draw inspiration.

Perhaps more than the organisms of other games, we should consider the jibes and jests of the negro as he engages in his rap and his dozens.

>>50058257
>all great democracies
You mean merchant republics

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>>50058494
>>50058257
I really do think drawing something out from the standing combat system has utility, though not a one-to-one paste.

You could have brief exchanges like jabs a counter points and quick wit, but also long term moves like the point you want to push or the track you're taking in that part of the discussion. You're style and personality could form something like school or stance giving individuality to opponents and yourself.

You can set hard limits to discussion lengths, attack your opponents ego, character or even the substance of their argument if you're really desperate. For proper debate you could have swinging audience opinion dependant on move and hell you could even zoom out further and make a whole election or fight over getting a bill through parliament one big single social combat.

Have some social combat from Bongland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSAlcr7SEbg

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>>50054020
>>Romans, after some nightly debauchery, are returning home through Suburbium. Suddenly they find themselves prey in a decadent manhunt run by patricians craving the excitement thrill of taking someone's life.


«Emperor Nero, that crazy fuck, had a habit of taking his bodyguards, dressing them and himself up as poor men, and going slumming.

»In the poorly lit streets and cheap drinking dens he would get into all sort of hilarious antics. Provoking fights, punching a random passerby in the face, you know, the usual stuff powerful people like to entertain themselves with.

»In the background you can see one of Nero's bodyguards picking up a candle that fell out of the victim's lantern - an item too valuable to leave lying around.

»On the left a typical night life scene in the slum. Two drunk young men from the better part of town are distracted by one pro, while the other pro does his part of the job.

»Notice the detail on the wall - the penis depictions could either be inlaid into the wall for luck (which the penis symbol represented) or might have been a kind of road sign pointing the way to the nearest brothel. To me it represents a very important milestone in my career - the first instance of getting paid for drawing a dick - something we all like to do, but now I'm a pro at it!

»Painted for Desperta Ferro magazine»

>>50059644
>that unused space at the top
Is this a book cover?

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>>50059644

Malum pueri, malum pueri,
Quid fecit, cum tibi venerint?

>>50059792
>a car battery

>>50059792
>ROMANES EUNT DOMUS

>>50059792
>freedmen lives matter

>>50060213
#gaullivesmatter

>>50060544
Please. A gaul is scarcely better than a celt.

>>50058494
>Perhaps more than the organisms of other games, we should consider the jibes and jests of the negro as he engages in his rap and his dozens
Portraying rap battles or disputes between sophists with social combat system should be easy. Participants try to impress the crowd rather than convince each other. Poets use Composition/whatever skills to make verses on a fly, philosophers use Knowledge skills to recall wisdom of great thinkers.

I will use Aristotle's modes of persuasion:
Ethos - credibility of the speaker
Pathos - emotional appeal
Logos - his reasoning, in this case it broadly covers performance in primary related skills

Participants establish their Logos (Int + primary Skill roll) and Ethos (Charisma + visible Social Class from your dress and bling + Etiquette skill appropriate for audience + reputation and Boons/Banes). Participants use maneuvers to undermine others Logos or Ethos, develop their stats (up to double starting value) or playing the crowd with Pathos. Examples of attacking Ethos would be pointing out that other guy uses different dialect and therefore isn't good local. Showing impressive proficiency with primary skill in Logos maneuver will increase Ethos by +1. Participants compare their respective modes and calculate margin between them. Speaker wins by dramatically swaying the audience to your side in one mode (5+ degree of margin in Ethos, Logos or Pathos) or reaching considerable total margin in all modes over his opponent. If the audience gets bored and tired before one of the speakers wins, combat ends without resolution.

>>50056417
>>50055750
Aye, it's degenesis, it's got some cool art.

http://bakabakero.deviantart.com/favourites/67614399/Degenesis-PrimalPunk?offset=0

There's no reason to include social combat. If you want that go play exalted.

>>50063860
Yeah, in this realistic game, we should just choose "nobody can convince anyone of anything ever" or "charisma is mind control" and stick with it.

>>50061522
>>50058905
>>50056492
>Rhythm of Rhetoric
>Disco of Debates

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>>50051954
>The Unkindlies have recently reported that a raven from the King's coop may have gotten lost in Galli...

I like that the Unkindlies use the same excuse in other countries. Like they actually need to pretend they're not just there to kill monsters. If the blood magic rules are indicative half of them basically look like werewolves anyway, so you've got this gang of lower class British werewolves in trenchcoats who go around pretending to chase birds while they hunt monsters.

>OY M8 BON-JERNO, HAVE YOU SEEN ANY RAVENS MON AMY?
>Are you here about the monster?
>YEAH BRUV. I MEAN NO M8 WE'RE HERE FOR THE RAVENS. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY RAVENS? ALSO WHAT KIND OF MONSTER?

>>50012596
The stereotype of Cossack horseman comes from Don Cossacks, which were a different group entirely.

>>50014253
Also field fortifications. Not just wagon forts, Cossacks were known for building earthworks really quickly.

>>50051954
Is Dacian Steel Export Guild the first hypercorp to hire shadowrunners in Vosca?

>>50064628
They're probably the Weyland-Yutani of Vosca. Dace literally relies on steel exports to avoid mass starvation. If something threatens their bottom line, they'd do anything to deal with it.

>>50064259
surprised no one has tried to do a Bloodborne supplement for SoS

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Bump with question.

Can anyone explain to me, the nuanced differences between various types of sabers in weapons section? Like is the "early" saber the hungaro-polish one, or something even earlier? What is the differenc between kilij and tulwar? Weren't those basically the same? Etc.etc

Tl; DR : can those of us who are not fluent in sword , get pictures. Like we got for guns in laserwhales?

>>50066713
I think the Hussar saber is supposed to be the Polish szabla type.

>>50066713
Tulwar is basically a Kilij where the disk shaped pommel forces you to deep draw cut with it, hence the shorter range and higher draw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BoKUfaorJ0

>>50061522
Ethos can be based on intellectual standing too, though, which is why it's faulty tying them directly, stat-wise. Logos/Ethos/Pathos are modes of attack/defense that aren't necessarily tied to specific attributes.

I will elaborate on the following notion in a bit, but consider if logos mechanically has low variance, pathos has extremely high variance, and ethos is a flat modifier that one can affect by arguing for, or against, the relevance of the authority the person possesses (thereby also making it a sort of flat "damage modifier" that can be 'crushed'?

>>50070545
>Ethos can be based on intellectual standing too
This is why good performance adds +1 to your credibility. Basic Ethos is based on your superficial qualities, charisma, looks, right dress, manners and speech. Speaker uses maneuvers to show his capabilities and improve his Ethos.

>>50061522
>If the audience gets bored and tired before one of the speakers wins, combat ends without resolution.
So logos is harder to defend against properly, but could bore the audience enough that they won't listen to you?

>>50058905
>Schools of rhetoric
yes

YESSSSS

For some reason I'm thinking of named rhetorical maneuvers with different costs depending on your school.

The classic example? "The Chewbacca Defense"

>>50070708
>So logos is harder to defend against properly
Basic idea is rock–scissors-paper dynamic. Ethos is appeal to authority, tradition, attributed qualities and respect, it beats emotions, Pathos. Pathos beats reason and logic of Logos. Logos appeals to logic and analysis of the fact, it beats superficial and assumed truths of Ethos. Speaker who set the right mood can play with facts and appeal to emotions he fostered in audience (greed, pride, hatred, fear, etc) to interact with opponent's Logos more effectively (bonus dice, TN, etc).
>but could bore the audience enough that they won't listen to you?
Shitflinging and flyting (counts as attack to Ethos) gets boring very fast. You forget about the audience, it forgets about you.

>>50064018
Nope. The first of those is ineffectually social combat, and the second is overpowered social combat. For this game all social interactions should be free-form only.

>>50070687
What I meant is that there is no reason that an argument based on logos must necessarily be truly sound.
Valid but incorrect logic still appeals to people's sense of logos. Even invalid syllogisms can do so, if the crowd is sufficiently ignorant enough (or the subject matter complex enough, or the speaker good enough at obfuscating...) that I believe Charisma could apply just as well as Int.

Also I believe "filling the meters" might be a good way to do it. Adding diminishing returns to each meter means focusing on only one might be possible as a specialist, but it's risky if the other one catches up in the other categories. Gotta do rhetoric triage

>>50071061
>Shitflinging and flyting (counts as attack to Ethos) gets boring very fast. You forget about the audience, it forgets about you.
Not if you're entertaining about it.
A good roast is much more convincing than passionless logic, for most crowds.

>>50071231
>Valid but incorrect logic still appeals to people's sense of logos.
Yes, but if your related stats and skills are weak you are likely to lose contest of maneuvers or botch a roll and damage your own Logos and Ethos at the same time.

>that I believe Charisma could apply just as well as Int
That's for maneuvers. Base Ethos and Logos are your completion scores technically.
>Not if you're entertaining about it.
That requires Pathos based actions, sick burns, etc.

>Damaging own logos and ethos
What I meant is that the way you present a logical argument is as important as the argument itself. Enthymemes for example heavily rely on predicting assumptions that are held by an audience, which requires being perceptive of the crowd's composition (demographics, mostly), their usual modes of thought etc.
Making only INT define the logos completion score might work, but it feels a bit like it doesn't really represent that logos is often also tinged by presentation, which CHA could. Also it ties social combat to one central attribute which is an aggregate of core attributes, much like ADR.

>Pathos-based actions are necessary to attack ethos without boring the audience

You can use pathos or logos (or even ethos) to attack ethos though.

You could be a sick meme master supreme and wreck his credibility by pointing out why he's fucked dogs, or by arguing logically that his status is based on faulty grounds or is irrelevant to the subject matter at hand, or even just pull rank, and while yeah you need to play to their emotions for them to listen to your argument, that doesn't mean your argument is wholly based on emotions.

The modes of argumentation don't stand on their own, after all. They are interwoven.

I think I might just be misunderstanding your intention with the social combat system.

>>50071495
>Making only INT define the logos completion score might work
INT is just a typical example for debate, stat is tied to primary skill you show. For rap battle basic Logos would be Charisma or Wits + Composition.
>Pathos-based actions are necessary to attack ethos without boring the audience
I didn't said that. What I said is speaker needs to hold emotional appeal and investment of the audience. Engaging in personal in long boring squabble is counterproductive.
>You can use pathos or logos (or even ethos) to attack ethos though.
You can use any mode, some modes are simply more effective against others.

>>50071620
>stat is tied to primary skill you show.
Doesn't that sort of require one to know beforehand what kind of social bout it's gonna be? That would actually work really well with an orientation declaration system I think

>I didn't said that. What I said is speaker needs to hold emotional appeal and investment of the audience.
That's fair, I think I was mostly confused as to what you meant with what you wrote in >>50071061

Was that simply to clarify that rather than logos being a source of accruing boredom, mostly techniques rather than modes would increase boredom?

>You can use any mode, some modes are simply more effective against others.
I suppose that in the general case, that's true, I just don't know if the rule system should assume it to be true in every case. I think making an actual system and then revising it might be necessary

>>50071679
>Doesn't that sort of require one to know beforehand what kind of social bout it's gonna be?
Yes, but it covers more situations than typical sophistical debate
>Was that simply to clarify that rather than logos being a source of accruing boredom
Not technicques themselves but wasting turns while Pathos is decreasing over time, -1 point per round or something.

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mods are asleep

post partisans

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>>50073761

>>50066713
Also keep in mind that a lot of weapons went by the sane name IRL, and are given different name to highlight subtle differences between essentially the same type of weapon. Hence the later thrust oriented longsword being called Bastard sword, less bulky zweihanders being called montantes etc.

>>50058905
what's the gif of? I know I know, but I can't remember

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>>50074966
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3oSAVwcD4U

>>50074739
would you believe I saw that coming

>>50076050
Yes.

>>50074739
It's nice that Ballad made this joke relevant to these threads.

>>50074739
Top form.

>>50012620
Hey the dwarves are pretty awesome and all worship a deep, old deity that drives them to suicide; even if they don't know it.

>>50080328
Wait, what? There's dwarves?

>>50080382
The dwarves in TR are much more stereotypical than the elves, but their neat gimmick is that all dwarves feel a constant compulsion to dig down, and just keep digging. This feeling is masked by heavy alcohol and social anxiety. Still, sometimes communities of dwarves organize one AA meeting before all digging themselves to death.

>>50080516
I think there's also an implication that they're from space.

All this talk about social combat, and here I am, playing the best social combat system in RPGs.

Burning Wheel

>>50081153
You have excellent taste.

Aside from the mechanics, one thing that I liked about Duel of Wits is how it dealt with the problem of rolling vs. roleplaying in how to play out social interaction. Essentially once both players have plotted and revealed thier "moves" they then playout the conversation according to the script. Even better, each of the social combat actions has directions on how to roleplay it.

For example; "Obfuscate is a verbal block, The player attempting to Obfuscate must present some non sequitur or bizzare unrelated point in an attempt to confuse or distract his opponent. Obfuscate is spoken while your opponent is speaking."

It gives players a chance to have some meaty roleplaying without interfering with the mechanics of social combat. It's also worth pointing out that this is the detailed system for dramatic moments (e.g a trial), and talking to ye olde shopekeeper would either be entirely roleplayed or resolved with a single roll if dice are needed as appropriate.

>>50081978
Neat

>>50081153
>playing the best social combat system in RPGs
I was utterly disappointed when I first saw BW social combat. It looks like shitposting simulator with pointless blind volleys system slapped onto it.

>>50083245
I cannot fathom why you would think so.

Duel of wits works by first coming up with your three moves, and then revealing your hand and roleplaying the outcome.

It's more akin to pokemon style rock paper scissor weaknesses and strengths, than a "blind volley".

Of course, if you don't think at all and just go "Point, point, point" without overwhelming power from skills and forks and help, then you should be handed your ass every time.

>>50080679
Some of them might even be in space stations.

>>50080516
The need to dig is most likely inspired by some deep buried god of evil and insanity.

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You know even if it goes nowhere, I'm really glad we had this social combat discussion. Gave the thread some life not seen in ages.

>>50080516
The dwarves are Jimmy's ideal culture. Alcoholic and socially conservative to the extreme in a shame-driven society, if they try to lay off the booze and accept each other for who they are they perish madly scrabbling towards the centre of the earth.

There is a moral in there somewhere.

>>50088870
I think the moral is that earthly desires are a distraction, life is an abomination, and that we should spend what time we have working to free our eldritch master so that He can end everything.

>>50089216
That actually sounds like a Christian heresy, but I can't remember the name. I might be talking out my ass.

>>50089570
Sounds kind of like the bastard child of Catharism and Calvinism.

>>50089620
Yeah, Catharism is what I was thinking. I guess with added bleak.

>>50089216
Jimmys speeches on divinity and evil are some of the most nihilistic shit I've ever heard out of a Christian.

So I just discovered I've been running the game wrong for years, and that you're supposed to pay range costs even for defense. I've just been doing attacks.

Am I just retarded, or do other people not do this?

>>50092366
That's only if they're inside your reach.

>>50088870
I think it's the opposite, if they all just talked about the digging desire, they'd be able to form support groups and shit. They all assume they're the only ones with that crazy shit, and everyone else is just regular alcoholics.

>>50084765
Because it is a blind volley. Players prepare three actions. They don't know what other player do first, I'm fine with that. But they can't change their actions afterwards to interact with changing circumstances. This design is beyond me. It's so pointless and meaningless, anything rules light would do better for RP heavy game.

>>50088664
Yeah, unfortunately it died once I unleashed my turboautism to support the discussion with rules.

>>50093291
I dunno, I think everyone just went to sleep.

>>50093162
Yeah, I've been having defense against people inside your reach have no activation cost. I think I'm just stupid.

>>50092366
It's only if the enemy is inside your longer reach with a shorter weapon. I tend not to use that rule myself, but it is technically part of the ruleset. It helps to make shorter weapons useful if you can get inside your opponent's reach.

>>50093291
>turboautism
paradoxically both the mortar that holds together /SoS/, and the wrecking ball which destroys it.

>>50094552
>>50096152
That's why Infighter's a nice talent, and why shields are awesome.

>>50093262
It's a blind volley if you don't think at all.

What is your enemy thinking? What are they like? Are they a coward that tries to weasel their way out of this, or are they a hard-ass cop trying to make you confess? If you aren't playing a roleplaying game, then yes, that would be a blind volley. But you are playing one.

>>50096352
Again, why can't you change your action after the first volley was revealed? It's a pointless convoluted mechanic that makes no sense. If you are so big on RP why won't you use something with lighter rules instead?

Interesting experiment:

Run SoS combat where players prepare 2 actions ahead.
Run Burning Wheel social combat where players prepare 2 actions ahead.
Compare and contrast.

>>50098162
I find it annoying that you clearly has time and dedication to post every time thread gets to page 10 but you avoid any meaningful discussion with other posters. Just let it die if you don't want to discuss anything.

>>50096523
But you can change it for the next volley. The volleys come in groups of three.

Why is knowing the result beforehand somehow more appropriate? It takes away the whole point of the system, which makes it thrilling.

If I wanted to just role play without dice, both fights and arguments won based on the fiat of the gm, I'd play stalker the scifi. It's good game, but doesn't really bring those tense in character duels of words that burning wheel creates.

>>50098715
But the system itself is pointless. It doesn't simulate anything, it's a gimmick for no particular reason.

>>50098902
It's fun to play, which is a key attribute of games. We clearly have differing tastes, which is fine.

Shall we talk about Song of Swords for a bit?

>>50098424

Maybe you has a point, conjugation-blind insinuater. I mean, I can't just quietly ponder over the interesting posts the actually decent people make or reply whenever the hell I like, especially when I'm typing this on a fucking tablet that keeps scrolling right to the top of the page any time I tap outside this text box so I can't easily reference what better people than you have written.

So, random idea dump:
-Swaying an audience deals long-term damage like a crippled leg.
--Like a leg is part of the body, a senate is part of the community.
---Like damaged nerves in your spine can be replaced by extra nerves grown in your nose, the leaders that hate your policy can be overthrown by a popular uprising.
-Ethos deals long-term damage to the speakers, since pointing out someone is scum makes you a bit scummy too.
-Pathos deals long-term damage to the speaker's cause, because you don't really care if your opponent hates you.
--Your cause probably acts like your weapon; luxury taxes have bonus influence with the poor, stuff like that.
-Logos reduces the effects of the opponent's Ethos and Pathos; "You're only calling me that because you can't explain this error"; "You want to blame this group because that group is funding you".
-Popular opinion is an opponent with high Ethos and Pathos but low Logos.
-The Truth (the whole, nothing but) is hard to block but only deals a lot of damage to lies.
--Proportional to the lie made?
-Lies deal a lot of damage to the opponent's cause (Pathos), but deal a lot of damage to the speaker if caught (Ethos).
--The more of a lie it is, the more damaging but the easier to catch; omissions are a pretty safe bet.
---Catching multiple lies in a row should deal bonus damage, like in most fictional courtrooms.

>>50099299
This is becoming more and more a politics simulator. I don't think it would see much use in most SoS.

>>50099444
That's not to say I don't find it a neat system.

>>50099299 Continued:

-Debates have each side make arguments, up to a set number each round, before the other side speaks.
-The opening arguments contain the concepts that need to be attacked and defended over the course of the debate.
--New concepts can be added later, but require several supporting arguments.
-Supporting arguments can be made to, well, support other arguments.
-The opponent can interrupt at any point, for example to stop an argument with lots of support, at a cost of his Ethos.
-Successive arguments target either the opponent's concepts in attack or your own concepts in defence.
-The winner is determined when all the concepts on one side are destroyed.
-Lies can be based on nothing (no lasting damage if caught), an irrelevant truth (lasting damage if caught and not successfully argued to be irrelevant) or a relevant truth (lasting damage if caught and not successfully argued against with a baseless lie).

>>50099444

I honestly can't think of any non-political social combat right now. Help?

>>50099536
>non-political social combat
You have never been married, dated, or even had friends, I take it? You've never had what the English call "a right proper row"? You've never been drinking in the street with buddies when the conversation shifted to sports, politics, religion, or business?

You've never had an impromptu debate on 4chan?

>>50099536
>I honestly can't think of any non-political social combat right now.
Rap battle as mentioned above, wordsmiths fighting for the crowd?

>>50099712

>married
Nope.
>dated
Nope.
>or even had friends, I take it?
I can barely get a word in edgewise and don't particularly care about what I'm arguing about anyway.
>You've never had what the English call "a right proper row"?
Not that I remember, so probably, yeah.
>You've never been drinking
Nope, but irrelevant.
>in the street with buddies when the conversation shifted to sports, politics, religion, or business?
I only speak to my 'buddies' once a week, barely get a chance to speak and don't like talking about all that depressing stuff.
>You've never had an impromptu debate on 4chan?
Not really, because usually the other side is a prick who doesn't deserve the attention, or I get bored after a while and go do something else.

>>50099751

>Rap battle
That's just a debate where both sides claim they have the biggest phallus, had sex with the most ladies, scoffed at the most constabulary, own the heftier blunderbus and decry the other's mother as being a harlot, all while rhyming using coarse language, is it not?

>>50099299
>Logos reduces the effects of the opponent's Ethos and Pathos
The degree to which this is true depends on the audience, though. It's much more effective if they're predisposed to listen to you, whereas if they're more on your opponent's side, ethos will discredit you and pathos will whip them up into a mighty fervor regardless of your logos, so you need to attack your opponent primarily on those grounds. Logos can, in this regard, be considered the weakest of the three, though enough of it over time can create a staunch supportbase.

>Ethos deals long-term damage to the speakers, since pointing out someone is scum makes you a bit scummy too.
Unless you're real good at doing it subtly. Bernie Sanders came out of his campaign smelling like roses.

>Popular opinion is an opponent
Let's keep this with only humans as opponents and actors. Gets to be an arcane shitshow otherwise.

>The Truth (the whole, nothing but) is hard to block
I don't think that's true, or rather, it assumes that the truth is known to definitely be the truth by everyone involved, which is not generally the case.

>>50099536
Such a clearly defined opening seems overly rigid, but perhaps I'm not fully understanding.

>The winner is determined when all the concepts on one side are destroyed.
This obviates the possibility of partial victories and makes weird assumptions about the goals of social combat.

>>50100108
>is it not?
It is, and that's social combat too. Long term scenarios are better by Intrigues where social manipulations, underhand deals and politicks all tie together over long periods of time.

>>50100108
>is it not
Not really. It's more about knowing your opponent well, engaging with him on an emotional level, and using that to rip him a new one through clever and poetic insults. The self-aggrandizement is much more minor.

>>50099299
>The more of a lie it is, the more damaging but the easier to catch
>Catching multiple lies in a row should deal bonus damage
>The opening arguments contain the concepts that need to be attacked and defended over the course of the debate
How is this covered mechanically?

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Hey folks, I'm going to be doing a Ballad session with some new players about the first war of containment. It's prolly going to be a clusterfuck as I haven't GM'd anything for almost a decade, but I do plan on storytelling it. However, I need some help from you guys first. Can anyone repost shit jimmy has told us about the first war of containment so I can better align this campaign to it? Coming soon to a storytelling thread near you.

>>50100403
All I have is archive
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/49447626/#q49551149
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/48295726/#q48365140
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/48295726/#q48366023

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So wait, wait guise and excuse my autism and newfaggery but...

...you are telling me this, this system can make session in any time period, fantasy or historical and is NOT as convoluted as GURPs?

Im intrigued.

>>50100472
Danke

>>50100521
Indeed, it may be slow to start, but combat can become amazingly smooth once you learn it.

>>50100521
>is NOT as convoluted as GURPs?
Comparing the complexity of SoS to the complexity of GURPS is like comparing the complexity of FATE/Stay Night to the complexity of Dwarf Fortress. They're totally fucking different.

>>50100521
Autism is welcome here, friend, as are newfags.

Yes, the system excels at historical and semi-historical games. Song of Swords can do everything from the stone age to the first half of the American Civil War, and its variant, Ballad of the Laser Whales (don't ask) can do the last half of the civil war up. The game is fairly meaty and complicated, but not inordinately so. It's made much more confusing than it has to be because of the presently unfinished nature of the core book which makes everything have a terrible and confusing layout. The best way to learn is to have someone walk you through a combat. At its core, though, it's just a dice pool system where you allocate your dice out of a larger pool for attack and defense and roll simultaneously with your opponent. Easy and quick when you get it down, and you can branch off into a lot of situational maneuvers to make combat more intricate if you want.

>>50100521
This is autism friendly thread, don't worry

>>50100186

Yay, targeted feedback. Hopefully the weird crap from my brain is defensible.

>The degree to which this is true depends on the audience, though. It's much more effective if they're predisposed to listen to you, whereas if they're more on your opponent's side, ethos will discredit you and pathos will whip them up into a mighty fervor regardless of your logos, so you need to attack your opponent primarily on those grounds. Logos can, in this regard, be considered the weakest of the three, though enough of it over time can create a staunch supportbase.
Agreed. I only just learned about this stuff in this thread, so I'm not fluent. Logos Vs. Ethos and Logos Vs. Pathos have a fixed cap on Logos?

>Unless you're real good at doing it subtly. Bernie Sanders came out of his campaign smelling like roses.
Agreed. I had that idea too but didn't think to write it down. Without the Bernie Sanders bit.

>Let's keep this with only humans as opponents and actors. Gets to be an arcane shitshow otherwise.
OK... I often seem to go arcane shitshowy.

>I don't think that's true, or rather, it assumes that the truth is known to definitely be the truth by everyone involved, which is not generally the case.
Agreed. I've kinda been stuck on the idea of truth and lies, whether they need to be agreed on outside the game or can be determined by the dice rolls. Before I thought GM should rule, now I think the game should decide. In a couple more hours? No idea.

>Such a clearly defined opening seems overly rigid, but perhaps I'm not fully understanding.
That's just me wildly gesturing. I like the idea that you start by putting pieces into play then focusing on them for the rest of conflict, because there's less stuff jumping out at you YOU RAN OVER AN ENDANGERED SPECIES, but I don't mind if that gets scrapped.

>>50100561
>>50100586
>>50100599
>>50100637

>FATE/Stay Night vs Dwarf Fortress

Fuck... this much?

Thanks for clarification.

I will definitely look into it asap.
Sound's pretty solid and i would love to play some historical with my players for a change.

Even different time's periods and as i couldn't muster the stamina to go with another GURPs drudge this is a god send.

I stick for a while.

I just didn't hear about this system before for some strange reason. Can't argue about /tg/ being autism friendly tho. We all brothers here.

Ill pay for your troubles in standard amount of (You)'s. I hope this will suffice.

>>50100769
>Fuck... this much?
No, I mean it's fundamentally different. How long does it take to really "get" either of those? A good while. But While F/SN is complicated in layout and has tons of spinoffs and shit (like GURPS) no particular aspect of it is all that complicated. And while DF has a lot of depth to it (like SoS) you can play it absolutely fine without a very deep understanding, and the rest just sort of reveals itself to you over time.

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>>50100472
>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/48295726
>Song of Swords: Guy doing the maneuver cards, good luck
>mfw I'm the guy
>mfw I haven't done anything in forever
Shit I feel a bit bad now.
I think I'll do a few more now.

>>50100599
>It's made much more confusing than it has to be because of the presently unfinished nature of the core book
What's Jimmy's current excuse for this anyway? Just that nobody at OI really cares much any more? The Australian problem was supposed to be resolved half a year ago.

>>50100873
You are honor bound to do it now.

>>50100866

k, im getting what you are trying to say now

im mostly interested in something more adaptable yet faster as a system than GURPs

I need something i can play in many historical settings without much changes to core system so 'getting' it isn't really a problem but i don't want to crunch numbers for two hours for a 15 minutes fight between six people if you know what im sayian'

im looking at it now and it seems good
i like it

>>50100665 Continued:

>This obviates the possibility of partial victories and makes weird assumptions about the goals of social combat
Yeah, I screwed up there. Ignore that.

>>50100198
>It is, and that's social combat too. Long term scenarios are better by Intrigues where social manipulations, underhand deals and politicks all tie together over long periods of time.
Sounds like intrigues are to debate©s what wars are to fights - can be represented as a series of debate©s but will probably get its own system, where things that could be kinds of debate©s (social manipulations, underhand deals) are collapsed into one action.
P.S.: What be politicks?

>>50100217
>Not really. It's more about knowing your opponent well, engaging with him on an emotional level, and using that to rip him a new one through clever and poetic insults. The self-aggrandizement is much more minor.
So it's kinda like a debate© variant? - knowing the opponent forms the concept©s you attack, Logos (reasoning) is replaced by Skillz or something... maybe.
I'll think about it more.

>>50100336
>How is this covered mechanically?
Hmm... Let's say lies have a Filth rating from 1-10.
When the lie goes through, the targeted concept© takes damage equal to Filth.
To heal that, you make an Objection! argument© to catch it - roll 1d10+Filth Vs. 12, something like that but better - to deal (total Filth caught+successful Objection!s this round) damage to the opponent's Ethos and Pathos.

Honestly, I don't have even a basic skeleton of a proper system for this; it's just me throwing a tower of hats in the ring.
_____

Roughly comparing my ramblings to SoS:
-Debate© = Fight
-Concept© = Zone
-Argument© = Manoeuvre? Technique? I'm worried if I try to find the right term I'll lose everything.

P.S.: I put © on words to show they're abstract. Hope it works.

>>50093291
Problem is that you implied you were working on rules, but all you did was mention a few numbers
You're not turboautistic enough to have actually made a full ruleset like that dude who made the damage chart thing, you're just an idea guy who used vague numbers

>>50099444
Jimmy's already making the game more modular by adding rules for Mixtape and Ballad, doesn't hurt to have Sonata of Sophistry added to the mix

It's like GURPS, except every supplement is hyper-autistic

>>50101950
>Mixtape

Let's be honest here, we didn't even get the full title let alone the concept beyond mecha rap battles.

It's like Jimmy doesn't even want my money.

>>50100108
>"It's a shame when your 16 bars are just a waste
>when every word or line is badly placed.
>Even dealing with the narrow window of time
>my arrangements are quick to shut down your power line;
>a bunch of small puppets, with a wack-ass team
>that only move, at the push of a button or pulled strings"

Dissing in rap is about lyrical showmanship, playing with words and rapid-fire humor.
It's not all braggadocio, most really good rap is just good because it's cleverly punny

>>50101200
Yeah, this is well suited to your needs then.

>>50101702
>What be politicks
Not him, but that spelling is archaic and associated with "politicking", so he probably meant it to refer to political behavior in a non-government sense, which might be called "drama" or "intrigue" if you wanted a very young or somewhat more lethal and sexy connotation, respectively, rather than a bureaucratic one. Using that spelling to denote that (otherwise non-obvious and, like the spelling, slightly archaic) usage isn't officially recognized by any organization that I know of, I know, but he's not the first to use it to denote that distinction.

>>50101998
Coulda sworn the name decided upon was Melody.

>>50102346
Mixtape of mechas sound better, and evokes this image of bodged up mechs and walkers duking it out while old skool hip hop is blasted from the stereos.

>>50101200
The most you'll usually need to do to adapt it to a new era is picking what gear is appropriate.

>>50100882
Everyone else on the team got married and day jobs.

>>50100769
If you are interested in a prime example of a historical games, check the archives for the guy who did the Poland campaign.

>>50103145
Mech fights to the music of samurai champloo

>>50100873
How exactly are you making them?
It seems like it should be easy to just make a typesetting macro or just a template that fills in the maneuvers automatically

>>50102346
The story so far:
In the beginning the name Medley was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Thus, Mixtape, Melody, etc.

>>50105052
Yeah, that should be doable. I make them in LaTeX with the flashcards package.
I've thought about that as well, but I'm to lazy to write a program that does it. And I would have to feed it the texts manually, since I have no Idea how exactly I would go about reading them directly from the PDF.
FYI I am the same guy that made the damage chart cheat sheet, the mega folder and promised to write a little command line character builder (I already started that but learning for exams and now getting back into regular uni stuff brought that to a halt)

>>50101702
I like the Filth system in the sense that it rewards higher risk with higher reward, but I feel something key is missing.

It's like there's little active choice, little game theory that underlies that. It gives me a sense of things happening based on a choice, rather than a choice begetting more choices and playing off each other, and I feel like it's gonna be something easily optimized. There's a bell curve when rolling Xd10 after all, and rudimentary calculation will make it obvious that Filth 1 will have a 45% chance of failure, Filth 2 has 83.5% chance of failure, and Filth 3 has a whopping what, 96-ish% failure rate?

Now you might think this is an issue with the values, but really this is an issue with the mechanic itself. Putting the dice pool of the defender in the hands of the attacker is going to give a trivially optimal choice of attack, if it's a standard bell curve like this.

It's important that the defense of the opponent be somewhat unpredictable.

>>50105121
Hah, I was gonna mention that LaTeX seemed like it should be able to typeset these maneuver cards in theory, but I wasn't sure exactly how it'd work so I refrained from claiming it would. Didn't know there was a flashcard package.

As for reading from the PDF and automating, I think personally I'd try to extract the pages, then run it through Notepad++ (I'm not good at computer) and use a macro to find all entries in the extract with
"Type:"
and then go two lines up, then cutting and pasting into a new document everything from 2 lines above Type: down to two lines above the next Type: entry

This will get a few extra trash lines pasted but those could be removed manually I guess.

I'd do it like this since it's really, really simple and disgustingly brute, and I'm not really the kind of guy who thinks intuitively in algorithms, nor am I putting in the effort necessary to make something less disgusting and jury-rigged as a method

I use "Type:" since it seems to be the only typographical constant. "Type:" doesn't seem to be used in the main text anywhere, and is always one line under the name of the maneuver.

Would this work? I kinda wanna try now

I really should start learning LISP because I'm a faggot who wants to use emacs and rms is my totem animal, and I like the principles of computing more than actual computing

>>50105452
oh also, name of the new document would obviously be everything on the line above the Type: entry

I feel this should work, and then one could have a macro to find/replace "Type:" with I dunno, "\paragraph*" ? Maybe just ?: with \paragraph*{?:} since I don't think anything uses : other than the categories (is "?" the proper regex symbol for wildcard or is it preferred that one use "*"? "*" feels like it would be confusing for LaTeX purposes since it's used so often for sectioning)

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>>50105452
I dunno. Sounds like it could work. But my idea would be copying all the maneuvers manually, that takes basically no time (and would probably be faster than to try to come up with anything more sophisticated), into a document and put some token between each maneuver in the file so that when the program reads it from line to line and sees that token it knows that it is now creating a new entry. Or something like that.
And whenever it finds "Type:" or any of those other words at the beginning of a line it would just replace them with what they need to be ("{\bfseries Type:}" in this case).

And I think . is the wildcard in regex for any alphanumerical symbol. But I'm not sure.

I might cook something up (when I'm available again, which should be monday) in D or C, who knows.
Pic related shows how one entry looks like after it's done.

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>>50105637
>mfw you use solarized LaTeX too
I knew you were my nigga

That's TeXStudio, right? It looks a lot like my Solarized TeXStudio.
I wasn't actually aware one could set up tokens but it seems obvious in hindsight that it should be possible. Nonetheless, I do think that marking each maneuver (there's what, 100?) would be problematic, especially since when the book gets updated IT'LL HAPPEN I TELL YA JUST WAIT AND SEE one would either have to manually sort out which maneuvers are updated and fill in the corrected text, or re-mark, right?

I think however that, rather than cutting and pasting into a new document, putting in tokens at those spots (Token A at two lines above each "Type:", Token B at the next clear line after Token A, which will avoid any trash text, as the maneuvers seem fairly uniform in layout and having no paragraph breaks (is that the proper term?) within each maneuver and then just replacing token A with \begin{flashcard}, replacing token B with \end{flashcard}, and the formatting of choice (bold face in your example) being prefaced (maybe "\\ {bfseries" but I'm fairly sure you can't line break the previous line like that, since, well, you've already done a soft line break), and with an enclosing bracket appended to each .: entry

And I believe you're right about ".", I've definitely used that before for that purpose, it's just not what ibsear.ch uses so I forgot the proper way to do it since I usually use the bastardized stuff


also now that I think about it for longer than a moment, there's literally no reason to use tokens when they'd be replaced by \begin \end anyway, and my "method" has the issue that if Jimmy changes the typesetting, it invalidates the method, even if it does avoid extra work if it's just content change

doing it manually is definitely going to be less problematic, but I feel like you, too, are familiar with spending a week trying to save 5 minutes of effort

>>50105894
Nah on windows I use sublime text. But the scheme is solarized. I just made a laptop with arch for uni like last week. And use solarized dark for pretty much everything I can. Terminal emulator, vim, sublime text. Wherever I can get that shit I get that shit.

Yeah about the possibility of updates making changes to that I have not really thought too much. But well, soon may be soon. But until soon there is some time still.

>familiar with spending a week trying to save 5 minutes of effort
yes, that's pretty much what me avoiding to make the program is all about. I'm just too lazy to put any effort into writing the program, so I rather stick with the tedious and slow, but relatively easy way of doing it.

>all this social combat stuff
>mixtape of mechas
I have a comic saved about rappers dueling with both words and battle-bots. 40 pages.
Shall I dump?

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>>50106896
Title Card for tasting

>>50051992
Jimmy my halloween sesh was postponed due to acutal cancer, pls post spooky monster I can use

>>50107009
Sure, go ahead.

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>>50107164
Righto.

>>50107009

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>>50107240

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>>50107249
There are rules to this rap game, but it doesn't start to explain until a bit later. Just understand that the buzzers and shift in dialogue color are relevant.

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>>50107267

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>>50107419

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>>50107434
Got distracted by idiots on /gsg/ claiming Wales is more the true successor to Rome than Byzantium.

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>>50107566

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>>50107577

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>>50107610

>>50107566
Sounds like /gsg/ is still as shit as it was when I gave up on it a few years ago, then.

>>50107566
Wales, huh?

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>>50107661

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>>50107710

>>50107662
waggle your willy

>>50107703
Something about real roman citizens settling the northern coast of Wales, while the ERE "abandoned Roma and her people" and therefore is disqualified.

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>>50107739

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>>50107827

>>50107849
I want you to know I don't usually care for rap, but holy crap the rhymes being dropped in this comic are great and I love the fact that it seems to power the bots and just goddamn.

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>>50107849

>>50107889
There was a time that Huss was a great artist.

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>>50108116

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>>50108261

>>50013837
>>50014283
>>50015822
>>50016358

I also see the new Revcontent ad crap.

There isn't any new annoying ad content on any other site I visit that wasn't already there, so it's probably happening to everyone. This appeared around the same time that famous admin post about 4chan not being able to afford the servers it's on started floating around, so...put two and two together.

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>>50108272

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>>50108342
There's a prequel somewhere, about five pages, that shows that Stelth shot and killed someone dear to Ice once upon a time, and that the whole comic is definitely a quest for revenge.

But all of Huss' old works have been eaten by the void, and the site I scraped the comic from didn't have the prequel on it.

>>50108391
I found the Prequel, rapping-robo anon: http://tauhidbondia.com/aids.php or http://tauhidbondia.tumblr.com/post/19418220596/buncha-years-ago-andrew-hussie-and-i-collaborated

>>50108391
>>50108588 here, strangely enough it only has the prequel.

>>50108588
Link isn't working for me, I land at a 404 page.

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>>50108644
>>50108588
dem double dubs my friend, checked

But thank you, seems I never did look up the co-creator.

Coming soon, starring Eminem, the hit new series...

>>50108719
Yeah, weirdly enough the link I found via Tropes to the comic as you posted doesn't work, but the link on there to the prequel works.

>>50107889
Too true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTtRQwxBrZ4
Space Muslims in Laser Whales when?

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King of TR Sweden sounds like a total bro.

>>50111055
Do we need to bomb something?

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>>50111055
>space muslims when?
When we have rules for ball games.
https://youtu.be/bvHhBsUpVCk


Also, are there really mecha rules in the making?

I'd gladly run a mecha campaign in medieval setting. Something like Dunbine or Galient.

>>50107889
Nigga if you don't care about rap and are impressed by this, you DO care for rap, you just haven't heard the good shit yet.

Stuff like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D__T_iHOT8 is pretty typical. I'm not super into battle rap or braggadocio, but it was still easy to find a decent example.

>>50111935
Space Ottomans not being present is really odd

>>50113200
It's space World War 2, not 1. It's not that odd, unless they never existed.

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>>50114304
> space ww2
Then who is Space Poland? Or are we going by the meme?


Also I was seriously asking about that mecha suplement. What do we know about it?

>>50115780
Probably one of Charion's militarising satellites, would be a nice touch if they cause Void-wide-war by having the false flag not be a false flag.

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>>50115843
How about we give them colonial ambitions as the cause of war?

>>50114304
I dunno, the weapons feel pretty WW1 to me

>>50115780
>What do we know about it?
That it'll never ever happen because the dream is dead

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>>50117897
Well the second war's not happened yet so I guess you could call the setting interbellum.

On a side note I am running a commemorative Battle of the Somme one-shot next week, I was thinking of following one of the Highlander elements of the 9th (Scottish) Division as I will have a Scottish audience. Do any WWI buffs have any better ideas as whither some other unit has an interesting story to tell and good places to read about the action taking place so I can represent it well?

>>50114304
It's not a world war at all though, the political state is mostly cold war, and it generally seems most comparable to the interbellum.

>>50118849
But with some of th more advanced wwii firearms.

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Post your armor waifu!

>>50118106
There are tons of things about the somme actually. Oddly enough, if you have Amazon prime, then their free video thing has a ton of decent documentaries covering various shit about the somme. Also, for the love of god, kick off with some research using the great war YouTube channle. It's got a treasure grove of in for and his vid descriptions always have research material you can bounce to.

>>50123589
>great war YouTube channel
Thanks, that's a sweet channel.

>>50123589
>treasure grove
That's an interesting mental image.

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>>50125247
>In search of the treasure grove
Welcome, my next osr sesion

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>>50117897
The weapons seem WWI if your experience with WWI is from Battlefield One. Most of them are pretty overt expies of WWII weapons. The Nachtmacher is a schmeisser, Weissenshwert is a Ppsh-44, these are definitely second war weapons.

I think the key distinction is that because the wars happened differently, tanks have played a much smaller role, making infantry equipment more of a priority.

>>50126432
Hell, there's even a Sturmgewehr 44 expy.

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>>50126432
The setting takes place shortly after the Second War of Containment, or CWII. The first war Chiron lost, and were forced to give up a bunch of seized territories and undo the Anschluss of Weissen.

The second war Chiron won early by capturing a 500,000 Albishmen in Arlon during a botched retreat, and using them to leverage an armistice. With that war settled they then encouraged infighting between Not!Stalin and Not!Trotsky factions in the Volgin Territories until that whole mess collapsed. There was a lot of Albish involvement there but it was mostly covert.

Now they're more or less stuck in a cold war with the CIS and the remnants of the Arlonese navy and colonial army abroad, as well as the UC and the Hive. A war could erupt at any time, but the Chironites don't really want to have to face the Albish in another naval war, and the Albish really don't want to have to have to fight a war of attrition with an enemy who has so much manpower and material at his disposal. So for now, there is tenuous peace, and a lot of espionage.

The next big battleground is almost certainly the Hiramoto and the Hive duking it out for Space Manchuria, with the Home Island powers becoming involved on either side. Presently the Tavanese (a proxy for the Hiramoto) are at war with the Janszonians (Space Aussies) over some islands. That could develop into something more as well.

>>50127227
How much of this sort of stuff would actually get published in a hypothetical setting splat? How much is stuff that you won't post outside 4chan / super sekrit skype group?

>>50127297
I imagine we would go into some detail in a setting book. This sort of background is important for running a game and making characters. Gotta know which theater your CWII veteran fought in, that sort of thing.

>>50127227
And who are the Hiromoto again? I mean, obviously Japan, but is there anything more to them than being Japanese?

>>50127419
In brief, it was a Japan whose relationship with Western powers was far less one-sided, because they were never "opened" by foreigners. The Hiramoto were allowed to gradually enter the modern sphere of their own accord, and they even got to play the colonial game by settling some areas in Western Rahoo, in return for agreeing not to interfere in mainland politics. They own the equivalent of Oregon and Washington in the Rahoo Chain.

>>50127318
At this point, would you say the Void is as fleshed out as Tattered Realms?

>>50127648
So, no unitary America-equivalent then. Do the Rahoo have the Articles of Confederation or are they not even that unified?

man, when was the last time a Song of Swords thread actually made it to bump limit? Nice to see.

>>50127690
I think I gave a little speech on the state of the Rahoo chain. It's divided up into three larger confederations, the Zabi, the Desotians, and the RoR (Republic of Rahoo)

They're all pretty different.

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>>50127761
>the Zabi

No Jimmy, but seriously. About that mecha supplement...

>>50127227
who's the chungus in the image?

>>50127789
Mechs never.

>>50127761
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/49447626/#49551863

For anyone who wants it.

>>50130077
>>50130077
You know you're a true capitalist when you're upset that your competitors won't consider using your own products to compete with you.

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>>50129949
>Mechs never.

I choose to believe in and respect the robot.

>>50092366
Yeah it's pretty important. That's the whole reason why you don't get the longest weapon with the smallest DTN and call it a day.

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>>50107739
>the ERE "abandoned Roma and her people"

Oh, boy...

>>50128337
I assume it was a mispost, but that's the doofus who did the Bostom Marathon bombing and got taken alive. The other one got run over by a truck during the getaway.