Warhammer 40,000 general

thinking of picking up militarum temptestus for my 2nd army and i have a question about the voice of command

it states that you can issue one order per commander per turn, unless there is a special rule that lets you issue more

do any of the temptestus have a rule like this or am i permanently stuck with 1 per commander?

Does a properly based Warlord Titan still fit in the deployment zone?

Go on GW's site, 40K, and then pick either Khorne Daemonkin or Chaos Daemons.
You're in for a surprise.
>:3c

Why aren't Librarians available at all in the Raven Guard detachment?

>>50011164

Don't notice anything unusual on the Aus site. What am I supposed to be seeing?

>>50011164
I see nothing out of the ordinary.

>>50011164
Japed again by b8master Anon. Woe is me.

>>50011138
i don't believe titans of that size require bases but i think it's about the size of 2 or 3 land raiders

>>50011168
Because of massive oversight by the developers

>>50011123
The only way to get more orders is running another commander.

>>50011123
You get 1 order per command squad, sadly the writer or whoever did not consider the fact that only 1 unit can give orders in the codex and only 1 at a time. Which is unfortunate considering you WILL be relying on those orders to get the dirty work done. Other than that they're fun and fast. You live fast and die fast, but can get shit done if you pick the right orders.

Assuming 8th is actually going to be a big rules overhaul, what are the most important changes you think need to happen?

>warlord traits gone
>random powers gone
>formations gone
>wound rolls/armour saves combined to one roll
>flyers/superheavies in apocalypse only (unlikely at this point I know, but still)

>been planning a game at my shop for over a week
>supposed to play against 1500pts of Daemons
>opponent shows up and we start getting set up
>he is unloading CWE
"I thought you played Daemons"
>"Thats what I wanted you to think"
"Mind if I change up my list a bit then, I wasn't expecting Eldar"
>"List tailoring is kind of cheap, you should just use what you usually bring"

First game against CWE, he brought a Wraith Host and I was expecting a multi-god Daemon CAD.
He wiped the floor with me, I switched the 4 Grav weapons (including the two combi) for Meltas for the Daemon match up and I stuck with it but his transports and WK were just too much.
I sure wish my collection was big enough to bring an entire different army, or even more options for my main one.

>>50011478

>List tailoring
You got what you deserved.

>>50011477
None of those things are going to happen since they all are (sadly) integrated parts of codexes. And they are not going to nuke 40k like they nuked WHFB since 40k is their flagship product and WHFB just needed to die due not selling.

>>50011081
I feel like we need to move away from this 'age of sigmar is op' thing
AoS is the TEQ of WFB

>>50011477
>Charges for assault are now 6+d6.

Suddenly the Assault phase is more reliable and can give more assault focused armies a second wind now that rolling a 2 is impossible.

All those other ones though? Yeah, those are in the game now, only thing they can do is limit their effect. That Pandora's box has been opened.

>>50011478
You list tailored, he played pretty fluffy eldar list and you got beat. Sorry son, no sympathies from here. You better design and/or play your army better from the start.

>>50011477
>flyers/superheavies in apocalypse only (unlikely at this point I know, but still)

The butthurt from the players determined to help GW kill the game would be enormous.

They don't care these things have no place in normal 40k.

>>50011495
>>50011511
>List tailoring
The only list tailoring I did was put an astrik next to my grav and say "incase of daemons switch Grav for Melta". He brought an entire different army than he said he would.

>fluffy eldar list
Oh I see, I am being trolled.

I play Blood Angels, guess I should just play a fluffy Ultramarine Battle Company or something.

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>>50011478
>Been planning a game with friends.
>Knights guy says he'll be bringing Eldar
>Turn up at store all excited
"hey I've never seen your eldar. This should be really fun"
>Opens case to reveal Baronal Court
>"That's what I wanted you to think"
Me:
>Opens case to reveal melta tempestus
>"Yes"

>>50011477
So 5th edition?

>>50011477
you forgot the most important and game blancing rule
>being able to hit on 2's in combat
lets say if you are 3 or more WS than opponent you hit on 2's
like purestrain genestealers on guardsmen

>>50011535
>Melta Tempestus

So what? A bunch of 5-man teams falling from the sky with melta everywhere? How the hell did that work out against multiple knights?

>>50011503
Doing a big rules overhaul isn't the same as completely deleting the setting. It happened from 2nd->3rd and current rumours about the next edition have suggested it's going to be a big change. GW has also been avoiding the regular codex release cycle recently, with lots of small/side releases instead which would make sense if they're going to be incompatible with the next edition.

>>50011525
I feel the need to say that guy is FoS and nobody who plays a wraithhost in wave serpents is playing "fluffy eldar"

Just so I have more cred when I say 'swapsies' isn't a real thing.
Just be a man and use your grav list on daemons in future.

>>50011542
He lost 2 knights a turn every turn until he was tabled.
The heavy las teams and LR vanquishers probably helped, but you'be gotta bait those 3++'s somehow right?

>>50011477
Improve assault phase so that you get half a chance against shooty armies.

Remove or nerf overwatch.

Remove or nerf rapid fire. Seriously, so many damn units get to shoot twice, then again when they get attacked in melee?

Units that have a 3+ save don't get a 3++ unless there's a damn good reason for it (I'm looking at you, necrons).

>>50011525
That's still list tailoring.

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>>50011477
At the risk of being suffering the verbal equivalent of being run out of town torch-and-pitchfork style, I would like to ask a question:

Why has the inclusion of gargantuan creatures and super-heavies worsened the game?

I mean, clearly some are bullshit, like the Wraithknight and the Ta'unar, but that's because they're notoriously undercosted, plus the current ruleset advantages MCs/GCs over vehicles.

But what makes GCs/SHs prima facie terrible? They're damaged in the same way as smaller models of their type, so as long as you have the weapons that can hurt them that's not a huge issue.

If it's that they're too durable then that's more an issue of cost than anything else - something that costs 500+ points should be pretty resilient.

I'd like to hear the arguments though - what makes Gargs and Super-Heavies bad for the game, assuming they were fairly costed?

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>>50011081
Finally finished my army. It's style over comfort, mostly, but it should do good enough. I've been out of the game for almost 4 years now, so i'm really looking forward to getting facesmashed by some WAAC faggots.

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I really like the Sisters of Silence, but I'd like to have a few more of mine helmeted.

Anyone know any good GW or 3rd party heads that would work well?

I don't have good enough sculpting skills to green stuff a helmet on top of the bald heads, and I don't think buying tons of ebay sisters just to get the one helmeted head per 5 is very cost efficient

>>50011590
yeah I'm kinda with you
GW has such a bad time balancing points between factions
>but maybe tat will never change, as long as multiple people write the codexes

>>50011477

Remove turn 1 deep strikes entirely from the game.

Bring back the possibilty to sweeping advance into another CC

Make super heavies lose D6+1 PC instead of D3 on destroyed! results

Make FMC have to do grounding checks on 4+

Make flyers able to shoot 2 weapons at full BS instead of 4

Make people able to chose what psychic powers that want and to pay for them (like it worked before basically)

Remove Warlord traits

>>50011610
nice models, terrible army composition

>>50011610
chaos bikers are such hype
>how do they compare to marine and ork bikers?

>>50011610
Impressive army you got there, love the paint job. It's quite strong at 1kpts, you shouldn't get steped on too hard.

>>50011634
Chaos bikers, Spawn, and havocs are pretty good though. especially nurgle. Though id go autocannons instead of missile launchers

>>50011590
I'd argue in favor of GMC/SH if more of them were like the Imperial Knights. Standard fare, not FW (no experience with any of those) a single knight can cost anywhere between 325-450 pts a pop, about the same as a small allied detachment while offering roughly similar amounts of firepower. For the Tempestus army I play around with from time to time even a single Knight can offer amazing amounts of fire support and can be an anchor to the rest of the force. It's still beatable as only 6 HP makes it essentially less vehicle and more MC, which ironically makes it better than all vehicles by simply ignoring the damage chart entirely. If more Large models ran similar to knights than you would get less issues against them.

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Posted this in the old thread just as it died.

So i'm working towards a 1500 pts army and i know that the most competitive thing to go for is probably gladius dual demi.
But that just seems to much and i want to actually get casual matches.
Would you consider this list solid enough to not get its shit stomped all the time.
Probably rolling technomancy on at least one of the librarians.

Fist of Medusa Strike Force 1490 pts

Core
Armoured Task Force 655pts
Predators 145pts
Dozer Blade, Lascannon sponsons, Twin-linked Lascannon

Techmarine 140pts
Servo-harness, Bike, The Ironstone

Thunderfire Cannons 100pts

Vindicators 135pts
Vindicator, Siege Shield, Storm Bolter

Vindicators 135pts
Vindicator, Siege Shield, Storm Bolter


Command
Librarius Conclave 345pts
Librarian 125pts
Mastery Level 2,The Mindforge Stave, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 110pts
Mastery Level 2, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 110pts
Mastery Level 2, Space Marine Bike

Auxiliary
Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force 490pts

Land Speeder 70pts
Multi-melta and Multi-melta

Tactical Squad 140pts
Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 140pts
Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 140pts
Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, Drop Pod

>>50011590
>Why has the inclusion of gargantuan creatures and super-heavies worsened the game?
Cause they were jammed into the game as an afterthough and the scope of the game was never supposed to handle engagements of that magnitude.
>But what makes GCs/SHs prima facie terrible? They're damaged in the same way as smaller models of their type, so as long as you have the weapons that can hurt them that's not a huge issue.
That is a huge issue though.
If you play Paper, Rock, sissors every player will come with at least two of those and be able to play. Throw in spock and god knows what other variations of the game people play these ways and suddenly you got army compositions that you just can't counter anymore unless you got a tailor made lists.
A player that never played against fliers but is transplanted into a meta with fliers is simply gonna be fucked.
>I'd like to hear the arguments though - what makes Gargs and Super-Heavies bad for the game, assuming they were fairly costed?
Super Heavies don't belong in a 28mm game. Put all the titans and super heavy tanks on the table if you play Epic. That's a game made for that.

A game that handles individual grot sized models and stuff like titans at the same time is bound to have some balancing issues.

Not to mention the logistics of simply playing a game with that points limit where using those things makes sense is going to take several hours, simply for resolving checks and moving models. 40ks rules are not exactly streamlined. Especially if you got horde armies like Nids, Orks or IG.

Adeptas Sororitas when? ;\

>>50011610
>plague marines are 31ppm
holy shit, i never realized.

They almost cost as much as my bullgryns.

Yo. Any news on when we're getting the Adeptas Sororitas update?

I'm buying the entire army.

>>50011638

Ork bikers are the stuff of nightmares.
You'd think they're not as tough as RW, but there are so much more of them that can shoot better than RW too. Ork player i usually go up against uses skilled rider orks that turbo boost and jink for 2+ cover.
I legit cannot bring enough Heavy Flamers.

>>50011703
They are 24ppm, the cost in his list includes the rhino.

Still overpriced as fuck

>>50011590
If they actually properly costed them, and included a point limit like 30k has, it would be okay.

Full Knights armies and the ilk don't work, because they're immune to the vast majority of the enemies units. They turn the game into "stand on objectives while I slaughter you."

>>50011723
>Heavy Flamer

Bring Wyverns

How the fuck do Harlequins kill Knight Titans and riptides anyway?

>>50011728
>Still overpriced as fuck
Eh, they're close enough to being viable that a well-done formation/detachment setup could make them viable.

>>50011638
They're just toughness 5 boyz stat line wise which isn't very impressive.

Their real strength comes from the bikes weapons, all Orks bikes are equipped with what is basically a twin-linked heavy bolter so for 180 points you can field 10 (bs2) heavy bolters for some serious dakka.

>>50011731
Fucking this.

Only half of my regular army is armed to take down Knights. Playing against a full Knights army has half of my dudes ducking for cover near objectives while the other half tries to focus fire them one by one. Of course they fail to take them all and then it's just a game of couting objective points while I'm being torn a new one. Shit isn't fun.

>>50011672
I think you can shve some points here and there
It doesn't seem to take advantage of the PotMS bubble enough.
how are you gonna use the bike libbys?
I like the vindicators though
>I'm just rockin 3 auto/las sponson dreads for my armoured task force

>>50011748
>well-done formation/detachment setup could make them viable.
>Implying GW will ever release a good CSM book ever again

NEVER EVER

>>50011735

2+ Jink tho.

>>50011676
>nids
>horde army
1-800-cmon.jaypheg

>>50011477
Grav becomes 30k rules
Stomp and D weapons toned down
Psychic phase un-fucked
Proper terrain rules
Vehicle damage table rework
Change back to no more than 50% of your units can start in reserve, barring special mission types
FMC need grounding test after a unit hits them, not at the end of the turn.
MAKE LAND RAIDERS GREAT AGAIN
More infantry varieties, such as monstrous

>>50011672
>Grav spam
>Librarius
No
Take some plasmas in the pods, have one pod be melta guns. Put your librarians in the pods, use powers to supplement your attack power.
With the points saved, give your techmarine a conversion beamer and maybe some servitors to help repair your guys.

Then use the fist of medusa detachment instead, to give all your models within 12 of an IC +1 FNP and power of the machine spirit. Leftover points can be more marines.

>>50011672
Why are you running two vindicators when you could have a squadron of three and benefit form the squadron bonus ?

Let me tell you, if not taken care of turn 1 that apocalyptic S10 AP2 cover ignoring blast can win you games by itself.

>>50011741
>riptides
Harlequin kisses from that ID, Shadow seer psychic fuckery (mirror of minds, psychic shriek, laugh of sorrows).
>knight titans
Harlequins caress, automatic glance on a 6.

>>50011767
hahahaha gr8 b8m8 8/8

>>50011767
the Wyvern ignores your cover save, but it still wounds on a 5+ re-rollable. For the low, low price of 55pts per tank you to can invalidate any infantry based army!

>>50011767
Wyverns ignore cover saves.

>>50011767
Wyverns ignore cover saves

Examining special sniper teams makes me hatr Ratlings more. Sure theyre BS4 with stealth but 6 scoring bodies for 36 points seems amazing to me. Am I just retarded?

>>50011777
I agree with the digits
fist of medusa is the best way (with a stormlance)

>>50011799
Ratlings are cheaper per sniper as well as being better shots.

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>>50011787
>mfw playing 4 of them in The Purge detachment.

>>50011805
6 point difference for 3 plus 3 more "wounds"

>>50011164
>>50011176
>>50011190
>>50011211

So there's fuck all going on?

>>50011777
But the psychic phase is almost perfect. They just need to cap Deny the Witch dice, unfuck Conjurations, and do some minor rebalancing throughout the rest (improve most Witchfires, ITC Invisibility, cap all rerollable saves to fail the reroll on a 4+).

>>50011720
>>50011684

February probably.

>>50011164
2 Bloodthrones?

Posting for a friend who wants some critique. I'm pretty sure he wanted to attach Grim to the Terminators, but I'm not sure how he wants to get them into battle.

Army - Space Marines
Black Templars Chapter Doctrine

+ HQ +
High Chaplain Grimaldus - 150pts
Servitors give FnP 6" for 15pts each


+Troops +
Crusader Squad #1 - 184pts
6 Initiates + 6 Neophytes
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol

Crusader Squad #2 - 184pts
6 Initiates + 6 Neophytes
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol

Crusader Squad #3 - 70pts
5 Initiates
Plasma Gun 15pts, Missile Launcher 15pts
Dedicated transport Rhino, 45pts
Dozer Blade, Storm Bolter
/155pts

+ Fast Attack +
Bike Squad - 103pts
2x Grav/Meltas
1x Combi Grav/Melta

+ Elites +
Assault Terminators - 225pts
5x Hammers & Shield pairs

997
/1000

>>50011846
That's still 6 points, 12 if you want 6 snipers who will, again, perform better than their guard counterparts.
Any weapon capable of reaching them in the back is going to wound on 2s anyway so stealth is appreciated and the ability to shoot and run is unique to them.

It depends what you're looking for in a unit.

>>50011590
A ton of SH/GCs are just untouchable, overpowered all-comers that can answer basically whatever is thrown at them. They can delete infantry, MCs, and vehicles with D weapons in one or two goes. They make whole swathes of units entirely worthless, and can also serve as Swiss Army units:

SHs are fast, durable, killy, and frequently just a no-brainer purchase. They often remove the risk of careful role or target choice.

Additionally, besides just wiping out Your Dudes sans effort before they get to do anything, several armies simply don't have any answer to SH/GCs, especially after the grenade FAQ that allows some WAAC shitters to pretend Melta Bombs are thrown rather than planted, further reducing the usefulness of infantry. Orks, Tyranids, & DE have little or no answer to invulnerable rampaging monstrosities, in many cases even if they DO list tailor.

From a fluffier perspective, they take focus away from small "infantry & vehicle"-level engagements by just being huge-ass showstoppers. Galaxy-famous Herfus Derpnut, hero of countless engagements with full honors & legendary stories, just gets turned into another mook among less-impressive mooks besides striding god-machines buildings-tall.

>>50011762
>>50011777
>>50011781
Did some changes, removed the "spam" of 3 grav cannons.
Nurfed the libs to get some more points and managed to squeeze in 3 vindicators in one squad.
I was gonna use the librarians to support the tanks and spread out the Power of the machine spirit bubble.

Fist of Medusa Strike Force 1490pts

Core 770pts
Armoured Task Force 770pts
Predators 120pts
Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon sponsons

Predators 120pts
Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon sponsons

Techmarine 140pts
Servo-harness , Space Marine Bike , The Ironstone

Vindicators 390pts
Vindicator with Siege Shield x3


Command 295pts
Librarius Conclave 295pts
Librarian 125pts
Mastery Level 2, The Mindforge Stave, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 85pts
Mastery Level 1, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 85pts
Mastery Level 1, Space Marine Bike


Auxiliary
Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force 425pts

Land Speeder 70pts
Multi-melta x 2

Tactical Squad 115pts
Meltagun, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 120pts
Plasma Gun, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 120pts
Plasma Gun, Drop Pod

>>50011164
bahahaha niceee

>>50011767
Like the 3+ armor isn't almost as good

>>50011590
Part of the problem is that they ignore the vehicle damage table. A Leman Russ is terrifying, but it can be shaken, stunned, immobilized, flanked for rear armor, lose weapons, or even explode. It also can only get cover saves and maybe an invulnerable save.

A Riptide, despite being a vehicle with clear vulnerable servos, ammo packs, and a pilot, cannot be shaken, cannot be stunned, cannot be flanked, cannot be immobilized, will never lose more than 1 wound to any given attack, and will always fight at full strength until taking that final wound. It also can get armor saves, cover saves, invulnerable saves, AND it can get feel no pain. Now add a bunch of squadmates to take wounds for each other and you got a crazy powerful force.

Its basically "I want a vehicle but I don't want any of the disadvantages of a vehicle"

>>50012062
> SH/GK
>Riptide

Nice.

Why are the vanilla SM terminator models so shit? Every other terminator kit is nice except for these ones which look like they came straight out of AOBR. The leg-chest ratio looks stupid too.

JUST

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>>50012079
>tfw you're so upset about tau you see riptides everywhere

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Will GW ever go digital only with their codexes so they can basically release patches for balance changes? I imagine they make quite a bit of money from codexes, but a digital only copy at half the price would probably stil make them a fucker ton.

>>50012118
>Stormsurge
Mega-Riptide!
>Tau'Nar
Artillery Riptide!

>>50011944
Sanctioned abhumans are still mutants yo. Fuck that heresey.

>>50012153
For quick patches they need metrics, which means big data, which means online games.
And once it's an online game, it's done.

Can't balance games quickly based only on griping alone.

>>50012153
If balance was really a priority they could already do it via errata pdfs.

>>50011935
Plasma pistols are horrible.
First 2 Crusader squads need upgrades on the initiates.
The third squad needs to not mix weapons.
The Rhino should be given to a squad that wants to get into melee.
The bike squad needs to decide the loadout in case Grav puts it over 1k pts.
Assault Termies will spend the whole game chasing smoke, they have no place on this list and should be replaced by a big, choppy crusader squad or another bike squad.
Mixing plasma

>>50012153
>digital only

I hope to god not. I don't own a smartphone and like owning nice books. The shift to full-colour hardbacks for Codexes was a wonderful decision IMO.

>>50012022
switch the bikes for ml2 and put the libs in the pods to get the 5+ fnp to the tac squads
you dont need the stave or dozer blades on the preds
ass a combi melta on that melta squad

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>>50011731
>>50011758
>>50011962

So the real issue with GK/SH is that they can pretty much take on anything and can effectively render a TAC list useless due to resting on one end of the extreme.

For the first, being able to take on a variety of different targets isn't itself bad, the issue is that if you want such flexibility you've got to pay for it. A Wraithknight can take on deathstars, other super-heavies, vehicles, infantry, you name it, but it's hard to argue that it's cost represents this.

For the second, how is facing an army entirely composed of IKs that much different from facing, say, an entire army of land raiders? Or an IG armoured company? Both also rest on that far extreme of presenting nothing but armoured targets, making life difficult for an army that's taken a balance of both anti-infantry and anti-vehicle units.

Thank you for the responses thus far, they have been illuminating.

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Anyone playing any games or working on some new models this weekend?

Whats the plan? Hows it going?

I get to try my Death Company BA w/ Dreads against Grey Knights tonight. Playing 1250pt Maelstrom.
Pretty hyped.

>>50012476
>Anyone playing any games or working on some new models this weekend?
In a couple hours I am heading to the shop with my DA and hopefully catching a pickup game.

In the mean time I am working on my Demi/Battle Company. 30 Tacs down, 6 more to go. Almost done with 5 Devs and I have some assault marines and a Jump Chap on the way. Just need two more Rhinos or 5 more Razorbacks to go MSU LBSF

has the painting guide been scanned yet?

>>50012476
>Anyone playing any games

Taking my 1000pts of Necrons against some Sisters of Battle tomorrow.
Have never really looked into SoB so I am just expecting a ton of fire and melta.
My plan is to put my HQs and Immortals in their Night Scythe, send my two Ghost Arks out with their warriors and hopefully contest fair amount of objectives while the Annihilation Barges harass other armor.

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>>50012476

By Death Company BA do you mean all DC? The absolute madman

For what I'm working on with my new job I've been able to get all the 40k stuff I've wanted but now I'm sitting in a pile of 80 ish unpainted miniatures send help and I only game like twice a month because GW doesn't want to put a store in the middle of bumfuck nowhere Ontario

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Here is my first ever Tyranid list. Wanted to slot as much spores as possible, and to not rely too much on shooting. Could you gents rate it, pretty please ?


Tyranids - 1492 pts

HQ

Hive Tyrant (1) - 320pts
Wings, Electroshock grubs, Scything talons, Rending claws,Toxin sacs, Acid blood, Adrenal glands, Regeneration, Old Adversary, Hive Commander

Troops

Mucolid Spore Cluster (3) - 45pts

Mucolid Spore Cluster (3) - 45pts

Mucolid Spore Cluster (3) - 45pts

Genestealer Brood (6) - 225pts
1 Broodlord: Psyker (The Horror), Toxin sacs, Acid blood, Adrenal glands, Regeneration
5 Genestealers : Toxin Sacs, Adrenal glands

Hormagaunt Brood (10) - 90pts
Toxin Sacs, Adrenal glands

Ripper Swarm Brood (8) - 232pts
Adrenal glands, Toxin Sacs, Spinefists, Deep Strike

Fast Attack

Spore Mine Cluster (6) - 30pts

Spore Mine Cluster (6) - 30pts

Spore Mine Cluster (6) - 30pts

Heavy

Trygon Prime (1) - 300pts
2 Scything talonss, Toxin sacs, Acid blood, Adrenal glands, Regeneration

Sporocyst (1) - 100pts
Five barbed stranglers


Hive Commander will be used either on a Mucolid unit, or on the hormagaunts.

Rippers will deepstrike, then shoot and act as a pain in the ass of wathever heavy weapons team could be found accross the board.

Trygon prime will be used as a synapse support and potential tank buster. Could also help to deploy something else through his tunnel, although I don't know what yet. Maybe Stealers ?

I hope to use the spores do distract the opponent enough for me to move around without too much pressure, and the Sporocyst will resplenish some spores if it survives long enough to do so, while attracting some more ennemy fire.

>>50012179
>I play fluffy guard!
How's that wyvern spam backed up by melta vets going, anon?

>>50012549
let me help you out
HFD
3 tyrants
-wings, 2 TL devourers w/ brainleech, electroshock grubs
3 mucolids

CAD
2 flyrants
-same as above
2 muccolids

thats 1275

then add crones or mawlocs to taste
>enemy's tears

>>50011962
Sage

>>50012583
I dont own any Wyverns friend. I do have three basilisks and two Manticore though. : ^ )

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>>50012538
>By Death Company BA do you mean all DC?
This is what I am working with right now.

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>>50012612
Is this the fabled "Cheese" I keep earing about ? Looks painful.

Someone clarify multiple barrages for me? If the second shot is a direct hit does it hot the template again or does it still "flip" off the first just wherever i want? Also does this still apply to a unit shooting multiple from differwnt weapons like a mortar team or biovore brood or does the weapon need multiple shots?

>>50012153
Fuck off matey.

I want muh books. I could see them doing a free rules thing on their site like they do for AoS though.

>>50012746
If a weapon has multiple shots it does the flip thing that you described accurately.

If you have 5 guys with mortars they all roll independently for scatter distance

>>50012612
This kind of shit makes me sad as a Tyranid player

I always picture the Hive Tyrant as a sort of King figure, one unique massive individual Tyranid lording over all the rest, and the fluff agrees with this idea.

Would you have multiple Kings in a chess game? or in 40k terms Chapter masters? Chaos Lords? fuck no, that's just stupid.

I really wish the Harpy was the guy with BS4 and Brainleech guns, i could stand to see them in numbers, wouldn't look nearly as awful

>>50012772
>Multiple kings in a chess game?
Actually, that sounds like an interesting variation.

>>50012710
Yeah a bit. I like the term "tryhard" more than cheese since you actually have to try to win with list like that against other tryhard lists.

>>50012771
Oh cool. So the Manticore though always flips. Damn, I was kind of hoping to use it to deal multiple hull points to the same vehicle

>>50012815
You can, you place the direct hit as long as it touches the first template

>>50012772
Pretty sure one of the planets invaded in Shield of Baal Leviathan had mass Tyrants attacking it. Frankly lore supports literally however you want to field Tyranids, the hive mind just shoves biomass into whatever's most likely to break the opposition.

I do wish Harpies and Crones were better though. Love the look of the model.

>>50011590
As some of the other anons have said, it produces the same issue that mono-unit spamming does: only certain units in the game can effectively fight them. This is probably why unit limits should be a thing, as well as point limits for certain units...I miss that. It used to be that certain things could only be taken if an army was above a certain points price and they should probably bring that back.

>>50011962
Nowhere does it say you can use one grenade per model, nowhere except in the minds of marine dickweeds.

>>50012649
Im scum of the earth: I slapped excess mortars to my hydras to make them into wyverns...

>>50011769
>casual games never happen
Why is everyone on this board obsessed with tournament play? Just run casual games for fuck's sake.

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I'm currently building my personal sector/world/fluff in an orky campaign for a friend, now i want to add some imperial presence on the planet that is basically a giant pile of ruin and tight urban combat

I can say that this map gives advantages to ork and nids palyer and i personally don't mind (neither people at flgs who are currently thinking some good rules to balance urban combat between shooty and choppy)

The only time i saw imperial guard on the table was lurking in a corner behind cover with 40/60 guardsmen first rank fire second rank fire, leman russes/basilisk/medusa and occasionally vendetta with some dudes for objectives (this guy was also very nitpicking about enemy distances and always watched for that extra 1"). Sure, maybe he was an effective powergamer, but where is the fun in camping?

My question is if it is possible to run a fluff mechanized ig group in an urban setting and not completely suck?

Also i'm thinking an urban paint scheme, got some ideas (like blue carapace and grey uniform, vice versa), but i didn't find a "i want this scheme" yet.

Pic related for terrain colour

>>50012699
Nice

>>50011741
Solitaire or regular caresses in squads. Hey bikes with the haywire cannon can hit a knight from two sides and take it out as well. Could probably knock out two knights a turn if you play it safe.

>>50012772
I just hate running multi-flyrants because it just ends up feeling like cheating unless I'm fighting someone who's also fielding cheese.

>>50011741
9-12 Harlies with caresses and prescience

>>50012822
Oh so they can overlap? I thought it HAD to touch an edge. Awesome!

>>50012710
>>50012790
its true, new nid players join because of the idea of swarm warfare and cool stuff, but that just doesn't work in 7E.
and honestly it feels prety fucking good making double demis tap out after your T2
>>50012772
its more like having 5 queens and 5 pawns with a rook or two
>tyraids are about efficiency and adaptation, playing tyranids basically means playing the BRB and since TL S6+FMC+psyker(albeit with shit powers)x5= good, and thats the only POSSIBLE WAY TO SEE T5 AGAINST ANY DECURION FORMATTED ARMY deal with it

>>50012826
who says crones are bad?
S8 vector strike and drool cannon with 5 wounds is good
although there is no reason to have them be totally different units, they should be combined like mawlocs and trygons
>>50012907
start playing malestrom

>>50012989
>Can't vector strike after jinking

They're pretty bad yo. At least after the FAQ, right now they're pretty good.

>>50011477
Overhaul of leadership/moral/pinning/fear.

Simplify the assault phase.

Change the balance of mosterous creatures and vehicle. Probably remove some of the built in special rules for MC and add them to models individually instead.

A huge clear out of the rule bloat is basically what I am hoping. Warsrolls until the codices get released. 40k needs a big boost in speed since it's now played with such big armies.

>>50012850
if both people just use CAD's then yeah it works
>so many dakkafex's are going unused on my shelf because of league play
its nice when flyrants+crones BTFO GSC bullshit too

>>50012865
>My question is if it is possible to run a fluff mechanized ig group in an urban setting and not completely suck?

It's quite possible, but it does require using units and playstyles most IG players ignore; i.e actually moving. Skip weapon teams completely, go for 20-strong infantry blobs with Flamers and Priests/Comissars, backs up by Sentinels (Armoured or Scout, your preference) and Russes to kill tanks and really tough enemy units. Don't overlook the Eradicator; it's dirt cheap and brings a St6 Ap4 large blast with Ignores Cover, which really makes non-MEQ players cry.

Your biggest worry is going to be dealing with enemy assault units, because with that much terrain, something is going to reach you even with all the problems melee units have in 7th. You could have a go with Ogryns or Rough Riders, or maybe look into bringing some Marine allies.

>>50012058
4+, orks aren't allowed power armour saves anymore.

Unless they're the kaptin, but still that guy breaks all the rules by having an invuln save as well.

>>50013010
so what? you still have a S6 template and a massive base to block off transport paths.
crones are great just because they are FMC with a template
they are only good because they are next to flyrants
>and who is shooting at crones with 5 flyrants on the board?

>>50012850
Even in casual games, melee horde Tyranids just don't work. They're in the same boat as Orks; old and underpowered codexes, with playstyles that are openly punished by the core rules. Short of extensive house rules it just isn't worth trying.

>>50013059
>you still have a S6 template

If you Jink, you can only fire snap shots. Template weapons can't fire snap shots. All a Jinking Crone can do is fire its Tenticlids at BS1. And if it doesn't jink, it's pretty easy for any army with dedicated anti-air to shoot down.

>>50012102
All the indomitus terminator models look like shit.

>>50013081
then dont jink

>>50012865
Running Mechanized in an urban setting is actually quite possible. You need to take hellhounds and Bane Wolfs, stick a heavy flamer on the front end of your chimeras, and back it all up with Wyverns and Leman Russ Eradicators. Everything will need a dozer blade, and all your troops can (and should) keep a flamer of heavy flamer on hand.

Your veterans will be prioritizing enemy armor as most of the weapons above focus on ignoring cover as opposed to peicing armor. Take meltas and shotguns and move up under the cover of the hellhound & varients. Consider an Emp's Blade company to buff literally everyone in your midfeild.

If you want to play blob guard, then this might be the one time an emp's sheild platoon becomes a good idea. You can take heavy weapons, use "Fire and advance" to move them forward. Plus the Sentinel can hade behind buildings while granting your troops move through cover.

>>50013149
Then you come in, fire two weapons (or fire once and Vector Strike) then die. Nice 155 points.

>eliminate instant death from rules
Hey guys I fixed Nids

>>50013199
My Termi Chaos Lords would enjoy this as well...

>>50013220
So would my nobs. Hey look at all the shit tier armies getting fixed.

>>50013199
you fixed 40k

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>>50013199
He did it, the absolute madman !

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>8th edition
>all vehicles have stat lines now, AV is gone
They're already moving that way with hull points. Is it really that far fetched? Would it be so bad?

>>50013157
uhh 5 flyrants?
and the other 3 crones?
dude if something has enough skyfire to outright kill a crone in 1 turn then you're outright going to lose
or if they, lets say dunecrawlers for instance, are focusing on crones for a turn tey arent killing flyrants
guess whats going to get 30 s6 shots next turn?

>>50013280
Give them AoS style rules where they perform worse as they get damaged.

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>>50013199
Check'd and I actually agree...

>>50013199
like just for doubling out strength? yeah
bu for things like force and boneswords? nah
>or synapse gives EW

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>when shooting at chariots you can choose to take the damage on the rider rather then the vehicle
>while it is open topped it counts as a single unit rather then an open topped transport
>mfw i've been helping my opponents easily kill my seeker chariots with flamers or wall of death

it's pretty eye opening when you keep making a huge mistake like that. also seeker chariots are great for running over dreadnoughts

>>50013280
not sure, i hardly use or destroy vehicles. though last game was odd for me, a vindicator failed to kill an exalted chariot while managing to stun it each turn and a burning chariot blew up a stormraven on the turn it came in

>>50013309
I would love that for monstrous and gargantuan creatures

>>50013335
That too.

>>50013280
I'm trying to think of a reason vehicles had AV in the first place. Back in the day it was more detailed than just "AV per side" so it made sense. Would the side you attack from mean nothing anymore?
>>50013309
This I don't mind. It's more rules but if you're simplifying vehicle facing anyway I guess it evens out.

>>50013329
Just for double strength I dig it.

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>>50013335
>>50013342
>>50013309
>>50013360


Example of the sort of thing I mean with an Arachnarok spider.

>>50013360
I wish some vehicles had higher side AV to represent that the vehicles are always on the move and doing strafing runs along the flank of an opposing army while tanks have higher front to represent that they statically lob shells into the enemy

>>50013280
Oh good! Now it doesn't matter where the fuck I put my tanks! Screw it! You guys can dive right into the middle of the enemy horde! It's not like I need to worry about positioning, or protecting my vulnerable rear, or infantry screens. Na! Just, fucking reverse into the enemy for all we care; its not like we want depth in our combined arms gameplay!

>>50013360
You could give vehicles different saving throws based on side, and T&W would determine just overall durability of the vehicle.
>>50013309
Also this.

>>50013360
It's not like you couldn't add a "-1T when shot from the rear" or something, however you end up mathing out how you want it to work.

>>50013382
See
>>50013383

>>50013280
It would be boring without facing having any meaning.

>>50013199
>"Bu-but muh speshul Space Marine"

I might miss the difference between glancing and penetrating hits

Also yeah fuck double str instant death

ITT: Lazy fixes.

>>50013403
Facing sill matters for transport and weapon facing, plus I kinda like the idea where diff facing has diff saves. Simple and simulates the same thing.

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>>50011081
Anyone else looking forward to unboxing/converting their BoP Sisters of Silence to make them Sisters of Loudly Praising the Emperor?

>>50013280

I'd misss AV.

Its fun when things can't hurt you,

>>50013199
We actually play this way in our friendly league, for 2xS only, and nobody has ever complained. Was actually here discussing it a while ago.

Our ork and Nid players don't totally suck.9

>>50013485
Well T8 would be immune to bolters and that is what I would expect for heavy tanks.

>>50013503

Not only that.

AV 12 and 13 being nearly immune or entirely immune to STR 6.

Was kind of funny (if addmitedly wonky) watching Greater Daemons, Mawlocs, Trygons and what not get slapped around by a Deff Dread or Ironclad Dreadnought because they couldn't hurt it.

hey guys, does anyone know anything about the average life expectancy of Space Marines ?

That information would be useful for my own made up chapter, which has a very low life expectancy compared to other chapters

>>50011434
cheers for clearing that up, yeah i grabbed the start collecting box today to see how it goes in low points

I really like dark eldar for the same type of style but i wanted an imperium army, so naturally i went to the scions

>>50013572
It's hard to say really, most die before they'd reach whatever point that'd be. Granted, Dante is about 2000 years old and is considered one of the oldest Space Marines.

Question: I like Spess Muhreens, I like Sisters of Silence and I like Custodes. However, I do not intend to play Prospero, I just want the figures. Is it more sensible to buy them off eBay or bitz sites as it is released, or will I be one of many oversaturating the market with the rest of the game material that I don't want?

>>50013572
Depends if they take the knot.

>>50013625
yeah, i knew that,but i meant the life expectancy if you include those who died through enemies hands, not just " natural " deaths.....

>>50012476
Gonna start converting my Rodricus Grytt and Ennox Sorrlock to Chaos Space Marines.
For those of you who were in the thread yesterday and discussed armour with me, thanks a million.

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Anyone have any fun, fluffy games recently?

because I sure havent

>>50013199
Do this for kill teams.

Force = D3 wounds

>>50013628
so the only two things you don't want are the two characters ?

>>50013669
Oh, I took what you meant as natural deaths. It's kind of a hard thing to answer cause age isn't really brought up for Marines unless they're super old.

>>50013669
space marines don't die natural deaths , most of them die in war eventually which is why the maximum age of marines is an unknown

>>50013758
oh
well, in that case i`ll just say that my marines are all relatively young and that they dont life very long.....
>>50013763
if most of them die in war, what kills the other ones ? accidents ? disease ?

>>50013721
>literally every game where nobody plays smurfs

Seriously tho. I'm in a map campaign right now using those old plastic hexes and it's awesome. We basically started this as a way to play fun stuff outside out usual marine tournament lists, and it's all we play now for the past 6 months. Haven't even played in a FLGS tournament since June.

>>50011506
>Yeah, those are in the game now, only thing they can do is limit their effect. That Pandora's box has been opened
Plenty of shit has been removed. It wasn't that long ago that marines were charging out of Rhinos that had moved full speed, rapid firing their bolters, charging and then consolidating into another unit.

>>50013769
The rest go into dreadnoughts or are Dante.

>>50013773
Our plastic hexes all melted in the car :(

Beware.

>>50013721
Had a kill team match against a friend of mine. He was fairly new to the game and picked up space wolves. So i thought i'd give him something easy - and fluffy - and picked a team of six rubic marines and a sorceror.

I endet up gunning his three thunderwolves down after each and every one of them failed their charge rolls, and his blood claws didn't do any better. In the end i didn't lose a single model, while he got tabeled.

I was feeling terrible after the second turn when it became apparent, that he had really bad luck and no real plan to start with. However i was pleasantly suprised that he really enjoyed the game, telling me that he "always felt bad for the thousand sons" and that the game felt like a real grudge match to him. We're one for another game next week and i agreed to play the same army again.

tl;dr: kill team is fun

>>50013721
played 3 rounds against blood angels angels blade against CAD with incursion daemons along with samus at 3k. we called it on turn 3 7-4 his win. reserves were not on my side but i held my own while he was a bit stressed due to how many rules i have (i even forgot my psychic phase on turn 2), chariot ran over a dreadnought. he got pretty strict on the rules quick. other then that i enjoyed myself, had we played 5 turns i should've slashed him to bits since he was running out of steam quickly

>>50013769
going rogue or switching over to chaos happens often enough. perhaps loyalists should be asking the sisters for tips on not turning their marines to chaos or perhaps it's because marines do more fighting

>>50013815
Yikes!!

>"nobody has played 40k here for years" from my only lgs
Feels bad.

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>GW will NEVER EVER make a plastic guard sprue that isn't Cadians or Catachans
I just want to finally get a Steel Legion collection going alongside my Orks.

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Returning guard player here. Last time I was able to play was back with memeblower, and I've still got my CCS, plasma vets, vendettas, and various tanks. Other than the Wyvern, are there any other new additions I should check out? Also how do the Forgeworld super-heavies stack up against the Baneblade variants?

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>>50013721
Played against an army with 100 scouts thursday. Real close game.

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>>50014003
settle down man, you'll get the commissar al riled up

>>50012476
Built some Chaos Terminators earlier in the week, now I've got a squad of Sicilian Rustalkers to build. Thinking about stripping my Kastellans, try and repaint them if possible. Got a tournament next weekend, not sure what I'll bring. Last time I went with a TAC list, I got eaten alive by 4 Knights, left a sour taste in my mouth.

>>50014216
Is TAC 'Take All Comers' or something?

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Anyone got recommendations for running a mixed guard and skitarii list?

Sounds like a fun mix, I'd ideally like to split it pretty even rather than say take some token units to round out one or the other.

>Get super-hyped for Genestealer Cults
>Go out and buy a whole 100+ model army
>Assemble everything, time to paint!
>Remember that I can't bring myself to cut corners
>Remember that every 5-point Neophyte will have to be painted to the best of my abilities
>Remember that it takes me two weeks to paint a single model

I think I JUST'ed myself.

Hello, can anyone provide me with Space Hulk Mission Book (3rd Edition), pages 46-47? Pretty please? Avaible pdfs are ending at page 45 - and I need information about contagii. Thanks in advance.

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In the mega above there's a Be'Lakor the Dark Master pdf under Chaos Commons. Is that the most up-to-date rules for him?

>>50011477
>>warlord traits gone
>>random powers gone
How about "you pay for the ones you want"
>>wound rolls/armour saves combined to one roll
What and why?

>>50011478
That's actually shitty. If he revealed Blood Angels that would be fine, but exchanging a Tier 1 codex for a separate Tier 1 codex is just being an absolute shit.

>>50014559
OOC how would you rank all the codexes in tiers?

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>>50014487
I salute your dedication. Make the hivemind proud, and see you in 10 years.

No pdf for the Deathwatch codex yet?:(

>>50014598
No Betamax copies of Avatar either.

The epub is shit though.

>>50014611
Yeah, instead we have tapes that only work on particular VCRs and is missing half the movie.

>>50014216
As far as I'm concerned, "takes all comers" means max out on Melta. The meta is so far towards Superheavies and MCs with 2+ saves that it's not even worth considering the possibility of hordes.

>>50014596
Go Leafs!
>leafs suck

>>50014641
The epub presentation depends greatly on which reader you use. Personally I've found Google Play Books handles the 40k epubs the best.

>>50014653
Sorry didn't catch that, was reading my copy with no issues at all.

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Just a thought.
Would a Librarius conclave and allying in 3 formations of SoS, thus negating the entire d6 generated warpcharges for the opponent; worth it?

It gives you a blob of 45 boltguns with Bane of Psyker, or a good amount of flamers.
It would remove a psyker based deathstar.
(Invis, sanctuary, double force blob.)
If they don't have Psykers they can never DTW.
All of them fearless, all of them Psychic Abominations.
Problem is you can't buff them like a normal deathstar blob.

>>50014487
That happened to me with skavens... bought giant army for not much money on a forum. like... 100 rats... paint 20... 80 to go... fuuuck. Sold everything on the bay.

>>50014857
why not just spray them all brown, paint fur grey, couple details in one giant production chain and then ink the whole lot in a dark brown shade? At least its done.

I used to take a lot of time to paint minis and was really proud of them. Now I work full time, have a family and house to take care of, so base coats and inks is all i have time for these days if I actually want to play a game.

>>50014595
>T0
Wraith Host/D-spam
Battle Company/Grav-spam
Skyhammer
Librarius Conclave
>T1
Other CWE
Other C:SM/AoD
Space Wolves
Tau
Necrons
>T2
Chaos Demons
KDK
Imperial Knights
Skitarii/Mechanicus
Grey Knights
>T3
Imperial Guard
Stormtroopers
Sisters of Battle
Blood Angels
>T9001
CSM
Dark Eldar
Tyranids
Orks

>>50014015
You'll want melta vets, and you may want to look at the Inquisition codex to be able to ally in some extra psychic capabilities (Coteaz in particular depending on your meta). The Wyvern is the only new standout.

Aside from that some old stuff got shifted around. Deathstrikes aren't consistent enough for competitive but there a lot better and are a blast for fun games. The Russes got rejiggered and Executioner and Punisher tend to be favored. Pask is an interesting option.

>>50014487

Suggestion: Do partial completion in a broad way, rather than narrow. Don't do a model to completion right away, but rather get some very basic shit done like main skin colour, main clothes colour, then go back and fix.

Then you can field a constantly in progress list.

>>50014919
Punisher is trash unless Pask is driving. A Vulture is a much better use of points.

>>50014828
An amusing gimmick, but will you have enough points to fight GC, tank spam and other things that aren't scared of boltguns?

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I'm a big fan of Warhammer lore who's never actually played before. Just got invited to babby's first Dark Heresy game, would it be a That Guy move for me to play a Skitarii ranger?

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>>50014003
>tfw no plastic space nazis

>>50014828
Er, don't the SoS also fuck with your own Conclave if you get them within 12 inches?

>>50014984
i dont think that you can play as skitarii, but you could play as combat focused tech priest

>>50014956
as per the FAQ doesn't pask no longer give rerolls to Gets Hot?

>>50014916
Move Demons up, move GKs down.GSG is probably T1, Necrons are only T1 on certain builds, a guy who bought Warriors and Monoliths back in 4e isn't going to be tabling anybody. Also CSM I have heard are better recently.

>>50014960
I suppose I could roll on Technomancy against tank spam.
Not sure on dealing with GCs, probably fulmination I think.

>>50015047
>.GSG
GSC obviously

>>50015036
There are rules for the Lathe World skitarii, the Crimson Guard. Like everything else about the Lathe Worlds, they're better than everyone at everything. They start the game with carapace armour, permanent flight and Fear (1).

>>50015013
Yes, the idea was to keep your psykers behind freely casting while denying them.
So you can't stand to close to your conclave.

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Guy who was trying to decide between IG, Admech and Raven Guard/Raptors here

I've definitely narrowed it down to IG or Admech, and I just don't think I have the money or patience to paint an IG army.

Somebody mentioned that there are usually Holiday specials, anybody care to elaborate on when/what those usually are?

Also seems like the entire game is undergoing changes which gives me a lot of doubts about buying in right now. I was going to go ahead and buy a Skitarii and Admech codex just for giggles but then I thought about it and opted not to.

>>50015043
Yeah, but Pask lets you shoot a single large blast plasma shot instead of 3 small blats, much less chance of kerploding yourself.

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Is bringing a Stormsurge against someone planning to bring Custodes fair or overkill?

>>50015036
Can you reflavor that to skitarii?>>50015063
Oo

>>50015098
What. Preferred enemy is RAW a gets hot reroll.
When.
What.

>>50015101
Meh it's 'armless.

>>50015043
Punisher is the gatling tank. Executioner is the plasma tank.

>>50015101

I don't think anyone gives a fuck what you do, frankly.

>>50015101
custodes aren't good enough to warrant list tailoring, but do whatever you want

>>50015133

What about the other player? I have only used it once vs Necrons.

>>50013484
I'm just struggling to think of what to do with the heads. I want to find the closest equivalent to the SoB helmet to give them

>>50015084
Not sure re. holiday bundles, but you shouldnt be overly worried about changes. Next edition is probably around Q3 next year, from what ive heard, and you can still use your old models, it just invalidates the codex when a new one comes out. 8e is apparently going to be more streamlined, which is prob. a good thing unless they go too overboard with it.

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>>50015114
Blasts weapons do not roll to hit.

>>50015114
>>50015162
And, as per the FAQ.
"A 'gets hot' roll for a blast weapon is not a 'to it' roll and may only be rerolled if the weapon is twin-linked"

>>50014984
Pretty sure Skitarii is only for 1e, and if your GM is running 1e and allowing the Lathe Worlds then run the fuck away right now

>>50014916
Is Deathwatch considered T1?
Also Demons is pretty T1.

>>50015047
Whats on the 'up' with CSM in your opinion? Genuinely interested. Wanting to dust them off, because they're my fav army and I've been just using daemons lately because I got tired of beating my head against the walls in flgs tourneys.

>>50015211
Demons are T1 if built right, khorne and nurgle can eke out an existance on T2

DW are 22+ point T4 1W models, even before their tonnes of fancy wargear.

How does my 1850 point melee list look?
>GK Librarian: ML3, staff, storm bolter
>GK Terminators: psycannon, 1x hammer, 4x halberds
>Dreadknight: greatsword, psycannon
>Null Maiden Task Force: 3x5 SoS, all executioners
>Repentant Host: 3x Penitent Engines, 30x
Repentia
>Cerastus Knight-Lancer

Think there's any chance I can make it into close combat? My plan is to use the deep striking GKs and the charging Knight as distraction carnifexes while my footslogging cheesecake trundles down the table.

>>50015145

So, how much threatening are the Custodes against the standard Tau list? Do they fall like terminators or something else?

>>50015218
If you take flying princes, allies, Forgeworld and huge dollar and point intensive formations they can get to a high T3.

>>50015211
>>50015047

What does a Khorne list lose out on that straight demons retain that propels them to a higher tier? Wondering because we have zero demon players around here.

>>50015237
Repentant Host is an Apoc formation.

>>50015063
well, that might work

>>50015250
Back to the box they go

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>>50015173

>>50015258
Think people will actually get butthurt about a formation that allows me to run the worst models in the codex?

>>50015290
The average gamer, if you ask them, probably not.

Especially if its some mates of yours. .

But rules are rules, and GW actually did say "no" in the draft FAQ when asked about updating those formations for use in regular games.

>>50011505
>TEQ
Wut?

>>50015290
Yes.
Always.
Do you not KNOW people?

>Adepts Mechanicus – $345
Tech-Priest Dominus, Ironstrider, Skitarii, Sicarians, Onager Dunecrawler, Kastelan Robots, Battle Servitors, Electro Priests

Assuming they do this again this year, is that a good deal?

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>>50015238
They have ONE unit.


They have one formation which is repeating that unit up to 3 times.
One units has nothing new
Two has 6++
Three gets them all 5++

You intimidated?

>>50015218
The are really bad. But with renegade knight, khorne daemonkin and cyclopian cabal you can build a pretty wicked deathstar thats tier1 (on 0-3 scale).

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>>50015237
In my experience with melee armies (I have a World Eater themed army) if you want them to be viable you need to try your best to ensure that you have some units in combat by turn two. As in, guaranteed turn 2 assaults. In my army, for example, I give my opponent a similar dilemma as yours, but with some more mobility. I have very fast, very deadly assault units in the form of 3 maulerfiends, and a Khorne Juggernaut Lord w/ a huge pack of beast Spawn that are guaranteed a turn 2 assault because of their speed. My opponent can either choose to focus these immediate threats down (they usually won't in 1/2 turns of shooting) or they can try to attack my second wave of mass squads of Khorne Berzerkers in rhinos and two Hellbrutes. The 2nd wave can't get into combat by turn 2 because they can't assault after getting out of their rhinos and the Hellbrutes aren't fast, but the entire army will be in close combat by turn 3.

The key to making a melee army like that work is mobility and target saturation. Make it so that your opponent can't decide what to shoot at - he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't and make sure you have enough units that he can't kill everything before you are on him. Mobility is also key because you must get into CC to silence his guns ASAP.

Another interesting side effect of a fast assault army is that you don't have to worry about anti-flier support - when his fliers finally come in from reserve they won't have anything to shoot because your whole army will be in CC if its fast enough (or at a minimum in the enemy's deployment zone so that fliers will overshoot them if they manage to come in turn 2 before your slow wave can assault).

I don't know Grey Knights very well, but look and see if there is a formation that allows you to assault out of deep strike like some of the new Chaos and Space Marine formations can.

>>50015423

So after all the talk about being Supermarines, pseudo-primarchs, it was all hype?

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A guy at the local store is offering me the Sisters of Silence out of BoP for 30 euro.

Should I take it?

>>50015446
Their stats are between marines and Primarchs.

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>>50014498
Pretty please? Space Hulk Mission Book (3rd Edition), pgs. 46-47... Anyone can provide it?

>>50015450
No.

>>50015450
Do you want them?

Are they worth it to you?

>>50015423
Does it stack with storm shields?

>>50015267
If the GM lets you play one, he's retarded, but good luck.

>>50015423
why does it say fug instead of fog in the description

>>50015450
No.

>>50015482
lolno are you retarded?

>>50015479
Honestly I'd love to have them. Anything new I can excuse in my Sisters of battle army is a blessing.

I just think the price is a bit steep for the low % of the box it is, so I'm a bit back and forth.

To be fair I just picked up a Knight Crusader for well under half price so I'm just normally spoiled I guess.

>>50015484
he may even it out by saying that he starts with most of his equipment missing and his mechanical bodyparts being damaged

>>50015482
Did i say it did?

Just to soak some shots while they swing their spear.

>>50015492
Cause i cropped out a pages worth of babble.

>>50015492
Fug is a word, its like a thick smoky mist in Britland, like you get in enclosed smoking rooms in old pubs.

>>50015195
Haha nope, he's running 2e. Guess I'll pick something else to play. Thanks.

>>50015511
Well around here they go for ~15-20 € on the traders market.

But our community make a point of stonewalling people who hog boxed sets and chop them for profit.

Hey guys I'm going to start collecting a Black Templar army. What should I make sure to include besides the obvious?

>>50015492
Why is a looted waggon a gorkanaught?

>>50015290
As a SoB player myself... Yes... Yes they do.

>>50015552

Maybe the Deff Skull who wrote the thing had Gorkanauts on the mind or the pen-Squigg bit him in the arm, causing it to spasm and the resulting scribble resembled the word "Gorkanaut"?

>>50015450
Just looking on ebay and I can see them going for 22 euros including delivery

>>50015534
Any tech priest character will be rape personified, Anon. And great at skills. Overall, Techpriests are mad OP in the FFG games so if you want the Mechanical style and to be a glorious cybernetic god, just roll up a Techie

>>50011477
Terminators become W2

>>50013199
>Laughing frost weapon wielding space wolf
Good.

>>50012772
The bs of the nid book

Synapse creatures should be less effective point for point on the table than those without synapse.

Creatures like carnifexs should be cheaper than any other equivalent unit in the game in combat and toughness alone but require synapse to operate.

Tyrannid points should be made to create a "kill the synapse" strategy whenever you play against them because it triggers the instinctive behavior in thier lily units, not because the killy units are the synapse

How fucked would be the Tyranids with the introduction of a vehicle-like damage table for monstrous creatures meant to nerf Riptide and the likes.

>>50016015
There's no need for this, Riptides should just be made to be Walkers since that's literally what they fucking are in everything except rules.

>>50016015
You can always make charts specific to different units. Maybe carnifex could go mental in their death throes and get rampage?

>>50015815
With Shipping to Denmark it's roughly 25-26 so the savings are sadly minimal by the looks of it.

Still seems a bit extrem to ask 25% of a kit that big for them. or perhaps that's just me.

>>50012772
>friend plays tyranids
>has 12 carnifexes, tons of hormagaunts termagaunts, gargoyles and a tyrannofex
>Only runs 2-3 flyrants with double devs and E.grubs, mucolid spores and a living artillery node with a venomthrope
>tells me that 3 flyrants isn't spamming and 4 when you start to spam then

>>50015516
Then you might as well not play one at all.

>>50016028
This. Mecha monstrous creatures were a mistake.

>>50013769
>if most of them die in war, what kills the other ones ? accidents ? disease ?
Just dead in war, nurgle plague bullshit or interment in a dreadnought, for example during pandorax there was an 1000+ space marine guarding the infernal cache.

>>50012453
>For the second, how is facing an army entirely composed of IKs that much different from facing, say, an entire army of land raiders? Or an IG armoured company?

Non-super-heavy vehicles have a disturbing tendency to explode, not to mention that many armies have access to weaponry that can strip their HP down very quickly (Grav, Haywire). Non-Knights also very rarely have invulnerable saves, and a 4++ against shooting is an extremely powerful factor when your whole army gets it.

Furthermore, armies that struggle at range to bring down vehicles can typically smash them apart in CC. Not so Knights, since you're always hitting AV13 and they have Stomp. If you go up against Armoured Company with a balanced list, your anti-infantry forces can often close the distance and engage the enemy armour in hand-to-hand, since most vehicles are AV10 on the back. Against Raiders, your anti-infantry can simply stand on objectives, and Raiders lack the firepower to really drive them off.

It's a bit like Green Tide. I've taken it numerous times, and it's basically the same principle as an Armoured Company: I'm going to spam one type of thing and hope you don't have the counter for it. The difference is that even if my opponent didn't bring a thousand heavy flamers, he can still fight, and gets the satisfaction of hewing down dozens of boyz when he does so. There's a sense of accomplishment and a hope that he can win. Not so with Knights. It's just not fun to face them.

>>50013403
Front and side facing would mean nothing

Rear facing would be double wounds from any shots

>>50016028

> Riptide

They need a different unit Type for things like that.

One that combines rules from Monstrous Creatures and Walkers.

Much like Flying Monstrous Creatures combine rules from Monstrous Creatures and Flyers.

They could put Tau Suits and Eldar Wraith stuff in that category.

Necron Canoptek stuff too if necessary. A lot of that shouldn't be in the category of Monstrous Creature or Walker.

>>50016091

Or.

O R

Just fucking make one category for big walking thing fucking christ

>>50011621
Someone will probably (or already) be selling individual bits from BoP soon. Just keep an eye out. Scalpers are everywhere.

>>50016046
why not ? you could repair and regain your stuff throughout the story
it would also be a cool roleplay experience

>>50016091
Why should Tau suits not be Jet Pack Walkers, exactly? That's literally what they are.

Wraith Constructs I agree should have their own category, but that could be done in the special rules in the Eldar Codex instead of adding more bloat to the core rules.

>>50016132

Well that would help with stream-lining the rules I suppose.

>>50016154

>Why should Tau suits not be Jet Pack Walkers, exactly? That's literally what they are.

Because when they were introduced, walkers were much more scary. A faction that could spam walkers that easily would have been terrifying.

>>50016091
I was thinking of calling that category "Piloted Walker". Because Dreadnoughts essentially become vehicle, Soul Grinders are the vehicle, Defilers/Helbrutes are similar to the Dreadnought where they became the vehicle.

Piloted Walkers would include a statline for the pilot EG: Riptide Pilot, Dreadknight Pilot, Crisis Pilot, Wraithknight Pilot, etc. Then the walker would have it's vehicle statline and a sort of system to see if the pilot is wounded/killed after the walker is penetrated. If wounded the pilot could suffer penalties, maybe?

Penitent engine would be a hard tossup.

>>50016132
This.

Make them One type, then tack Mechanic, Organic, Demonic templates on top with their own weakness/strengths as far as Haywire/Poison/"Holy" goes.

>>50016178
Well the PE should use the drivers LD (if they even have any reaction to psychology in that state) rest is all machine.

>>50016176
I'm not talking about when they were introduced, I'm talking about now. If the game is updated to fix the problems with the rules, that should include making all Tau suits into Jet Pack Walkers. They don't need a new special snowflake category just for suits they are the exact thing that the Walker category exists to represent.

>>50014515
The most up to date belakoe is in curse of the wulfen and he is daemons only now

>>50016154

Because that would get wonky for the purposes of infantry scale battlesuits.

I assume one of the reasons the larger ones are all Monstrous Creatures is to keep with the theme of them having wounds.

It'd be odd if you have battlesuits that have Toughness and Armor Value.

I'd have one or the other, but not both.

>>50016214
Not really, infantry scale Dreadnoughts are called Terminators and those use -you guessed it - infantry rules. Infantry scale skimmers are called Jet Bikes and have T values instead of armour.

>>50016187

Unit Type: War Engine or War Machine then?

>>50016203

Only if you make the Infantry scale ones Walkers too.

>>50014595
Legit army power rankings 2016

S:
Battle Company
Wolfstar/Superfriends
Wraith Host

A:
CWE
C:SM
GSC
Tau
Demons
Necrons
Pre-FAQ War Convo

B:
KDK
IK
SoB
Deathwatch
Post-FAQ War Convo

C:
GK
IG
MT
Harlequins
Inq
BA
Corsairs
Skitarii/CM

D:
Tyranids

F:
Orkz
CSM
Dark Eldar

>>50016249

There is a wide degree of difference between Terminators and Dreadnoughts.

I don't recall Terminator Armor or a Dreadnought having the same degree of similar construction between one another as Battlesuits do between the different classes.

>>50016278
There's an equally wide degree of difference between Crisis Suits and Riptides. Look at the fucking size differences on those things, the engineering would literally be completely incompatible between two different constructs of those scales.

>>50016265
What did the FAQ do to the War Convo?

>>50016307
Can't use Drop Pods.

>>50016302

Yes, but a lot of the same construction principles could apply, such as the interface used to control a Battlesuit.

The only thing I've seen that doesn't follow that principle is the Storm Surge.

>>50016307
You can't stick your guys in drop pods anymore

>>50016265
>Implying Wraith Host is even a good formation.
Yeah, nah. CWE is tier S, not some crappy formation that had bad tax units.

>>50016278
Terminator armour is called TACTICAL DREADNOUGHT ARMOUR.

It basically the same thing except the bigger one has a great big coffin in the middle and is powered by servos.

>>50016265
>Corsairs that far down
Yeah, no. They may not have Wraith host shenanigans, but they can pull off similar things to CWE. They were the sole reason I beat Necrons with my DE+ Corsair list and it wasn't even optimized.

>>50016315
>>50016322
That's weak

Why does GW have such a hardon for Admech never getting any transports?

>>50016321
The interface and all that other semantics bullshit doesn't fucking matter, unit types are only for mechanically modeling the effects of damage.

Mechanical constructs of a certain scale should stop being infantry and start being Walkers. we can debate where the line is drawn in terms of things like Crisis Suits and Centurions, but anything large enough to be a Monstrous Creature in current rules is very DEFINITELY a fucking Walker.

>>50011478
>That's what I wanted you to think
yeah no, fuck you. Not playing.

You spend a week planning a fucking game and this guy thinks its ok to pull a " *teleports behind you* heh.. you didn't see that coming, did you kid? "

You decide the army, not the list. Showing up with a different army is bad form as fuck.

>>50016359
One word: IA14. You'll see amd you will cum buckets.

>>50016359
It's more like they have a hard-on for only letting Space Marines get Pods. Which is fine, if they would just make some other kind of transport for Ad Mech.

>>50016265
>corsairs
>c tier
Get good
I've beaten hunter cadres due to out flanking and heavy deep strike shenanigans

>>50016376
If they ever fucking release it.

>>50016250
But that's the thing. Crisis suits really are suits of armour, the arms go roughly into where the arms are and the legs go roughly into where the legs are. It's a great big suit of armour with gubbins stuck on it.

A Riptide (And friends) however is a guy sitting in a cockpit controlling the thing through an interface, which anyone with a brain would tell you is kinda how a vehicle works.

>>50016387
But hunter cadre is fluffy and bad tau list.