Eclipse Phase General - /epg/

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>>50003271

REMINDER

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>>50003356

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Okay, so everyone has a problem with the Jovian's, yet finds them okay in other areas. So tell us what you think about the Jovian's. Do you:

>1) Like their actions but dislike the tone the authors have with them
>2) Wish they would tone down the opposition to transhumanism
>3) Wish they would tone down the authoritarianism
>4) Wish they would tone down the religousness
>5) Like their ideology but wish they weren't written as idiots
>6) Think they are good as is

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>>50003445
>1) Like their actions but dislike the tone the authors have with them
>4) Wish they would tone down the religousness

Everything else is fine. Though, given what the handful of anons, maybe only one or two you can't tell, have been sperging out over the past couple threads I think they could also do with an amount of handicapping. If they're to be believed, they're totally unassailable and nigh-invincible to the major threats of the setting, with seemingly no drawbacks to their policies. I'm of the mind that no faction in a setting like this should have obvious superiority beyond ideological ones to others, or at least not that massive. So they need an X-Risk or too they can't deal with, or someone to make it clear something about them is woefully far behind everyone else because they lack transhumanism. After all, that is what the setting is ostensibly about right? Transhumanism and it's pluses and minuses?

>>50003445
A combination of 1 and 5, with a dash of 2. I think their ideology is entirely legitimate and their fears in particular make a lot of sense, and I hugely dislike the way the authors seem to want to treat them as the designated bad guy of the setting.
On the topic of their attitude to transhumanism, its great that you chose a Purity unit from Civ BE for this because Purity is how the Jovians should be written; using gene fixing to become better stronger humans, without becoming some twisted man/machine 'human 2.0' and using AI that is forced to route every decision through a human operator (which I think they do but only for stuff where an AI is absolutely necessary)

>>50003501
The x-threats they can't handle are just about every one out there that hangs over everyone else's head, the Jovians just try and take steps to prevent it. Hell, half of their attitude to technology can be surmised as "it COULD be a risk at some point, so it MUST be controlled or made absolutely illegal" with very little in-between. The big minus of the Jovians is they go way too far for a sense of security

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So there's no reason not to be a synth in any situation where danger might occur, right? Inherent synth armour is absurd when you can pile normal armour on top with no penalty. Synthetic mask is only [Moderate] if you're afraid of dirty looks.

>>50003679
Having a brain made of circuits is a bad idea on the modern battlefield, between the EMPs, the hacking and the metal eating nano swarms
And then there's the fact that basilisk hacks work much MUCH faster on cyberbrains because they don't have to rewire fleshy bits to make you murder your friends. Or some exsurgents just skip the bassie hack and brainjack you directly

>>50003501

Well, I personally would argue that they do obviously have pros and cons.

I mean, like, if we want to Joviwank about their, say military readiness I'd give them very high markings, especially compared to say, the Planetary Consortium - who have a lot of money and resources, but everything with them is arranged via business ventures, and since DA has a big seat on the Hypercorp Council they will not exactly be a pinnacle of efficient spending.

But say, like, with the Titanians, I'd argue the commonwealth would have better preparedness and readiness because of both their style of governance and attitude on technology. Both have mandatory civil service, but the Titanians do it later, and I believe for longer. They both train using older technology which is intended to work in an infowar blackout situation. But I don't recall Jovians going full swiss and having a militia system where every new citizen keeps a rifle and armor under his/her bed for T-Day.

And I don't care how much cyberware mental augs you approve - a 15-year old conscript is not going to, as an average, be smarter, better experienced or trained than a 25-year old who got a free college education and has a higher base standard of body (Hazer over Splicer, +5 DUR, +5 Aptitude cap, Like 15 more bonus aptitude points alone).

This, I think, encapsulates the strength and weakness of the Jovian position. They trade so much for security, they are honestly much safer than many places in the Solar System. But this doesn't actually make them any "better" than anyone else. Ideological purity is pointless in the face of Existential risk.

>>50003518

In a game about transhumanism the militant non-transhuman faction gets a lot of funny looks from all the other factions, who could have guessed.

>>50003710

>between the EMPs

Oh no, my radio range went from like 100 meters to 20 meters, whatever will I do....

>>50003724
Get disconnected from your unit and ripped apart by a coordinated force? That's what usually happens
Truth be known I was just listing the obvious downsides of synths in combat, but another factor is one you just hit on there; people get it into their heads they're Arnold in the cop shop in Terminator 1, when the truth is you're still going to get your shit wrecked if you act alone. Just because your metal not meat doesn't mean you're bulletproof, and in a setting where people can fab up anti-tank rockets as fast as they can fire them armor stacking isn't a guarantee of anything except being the priority target

>>50003771

Or you brought laser links or something the EMP doesn't fuck with. Or if you're actually in a combat situation you have a helmet with a Radio Booster so the range reduction for EMP only reasonably matters if you're wandering around in the Martian Outback.

But no, yeah, I agree with all your other points, just the EMP thing is REAL peanuts compared to the many other things people may have going on with Synths. Like being blinded by storebought anti-surveillance tech while for biomorphs you need some kind of diabolical deathtrap.

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>>50003445
Personally I think they just need to work on the tone, maybe have a section written from the perspective of a loyal Jovian (as opposed to that Tio Silencio guy). Also, they should expand upon the technologies and subversion that the Jovian's use to keep up with the Titanian and PC militaries.

>>50003715
There's a difference between them being given aside glances from the other factions in universe (which I agree is completely realistic) and the way the writers treat Jove orbit as a dumping ground for all sorts of shit they don't like.

And you're right about the Jovians not going Swiss with it, which is probably more a social control thing then anything else. Pretty sure the Titanians don't either, but then you don't need a standing supply of rifles when you can just use field fabbers at militia rallying points

The feeling I get about Direct Action is it maps very closely to the US Army; perhaps not the largest force but certainly one of the best trained and most battle hardened ones that's cursed with a massive range of quality ranging from weekend warrior types who are just temping with the DA corporation to full time ex-state military lifers who've been in and out of warzones for decades thanks to upload technology

>>50003831
That's the problem with the books being written with Firewall in mind, from a certain perspective every character in the book is a traitor to their cause thanks to their willingness to work for a faction that will at some point help their allies.
Autonomists are joining a structured group they don't get to have an input on, Extropians aren't working cash in hand, Scum don't fight exsurgents for the thrill of it, and ultimates in Firewall directly contribute to the ongoing survival of genetrash that would have been cleared from the transhuman genepool without their intervention

>>50003356
>>50003411
Is there one for Titanians and Scum as well?

>>50003868
Working for Firewall is usually either coerced out of people or people just want to make sure the system doesn't go tits up again. Unless you're making a character that's so ideologically hardline that they'd rather see it all burn than help out their fellow man, then you've got more problems than just how they're working for Firewall.

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Why is it that everyone just talks about how to fix the Junta but no one ever puts in the effort to write some expanded, homebrew lore for them?

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>>50003917
I've got a lot of headcannon but I'm too lazy to write any of it down.

>>50003834

IIRC, every full citizen of the Commonwealth is required to keep a standard weapon and armor in their dwelling and regularly qualify for it. But much like the free education, when you're a complete socialist system this isn't a huge deal, when you as the government grant them their house, you make sure to stick the gun and armor in it, or make sure they have the blueprints. The glories of the State providing all things.

I will say, the Core book is definitely harsh on Jove, and on some levels contradictory - but this balances out better as time goes on. Especially in comparison to say, the Minervan Fleet who are basically the Battlestar/Starship Troopers jovian attitude "YES WE LOVE THIS - HFY" you get around here sometimes written as a clear potential risk to transhuman dudes just living their space-lives. There's been a bit of a shift to like, separate the Jovian government from the populace and while sometimes those values overlap, other times they are distinct, and this means you get stuff like "Resleeving isn't illegal, technically, but a resleeve clinic can get blown up by militant civs who think resleeving is suicide".

I'd also agree about DA. They're big, obviously, they're on the Hypercorp Council. They do all kinds of security business. But they're still a business, which means you're gonna get a lot of diverse focus, from armchair guys in suits who just know the money, to weekend warriors, to serious guys who have skills and just want to get paid. This means they aren't "bad" persay, but their efficiency and unity isn't as good as groups like the Jovians or Commonwealth who have a unity of purpose and identity. And don't have to pay you for the first tour of duty.

>>50003888

There's definitely one for OZMA.

>>50003917
We tried that once, IIRC we came away with female a security tech with a man-on-man fixation
>>50003909
True, I was just making the point that every character in the books who's opinion we read are already flexible enough ideologically to join Firewall for the reasons you mentioned. We won't get a section written by a loyal anyone, due to the nature of the game. DESU I automatically suspect a lot of the autonomists in Firewall thanks to their biases shining through in the books. If they can't put their unwanted revolution aside long enough to give me the lay of the land on Mars, how can I trust them to keep an eye on x-threats?

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>>50003971
Beyond Earth may have boring leaders and be an expensive reskin, but it does have an interesting conflict of transhumanist ideologies.

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>>50003971
God but I love the art work of the Affinities from Beyond Earth. Its a shame the rest of the game didn't live up to that direction really
Anyway, for EP purposes, from left to right;
>Jovians
>Direct Action maybe? Really anyone who uses primarily synth soldiers
>More expensive Direct Action, or just your standard 'elite; guys
>ultimates or exhumans, because freaky but efficient combinations of biology and machinery is something I could see them doing
>Medusan Shield, because they've got to introduce a fresh angle for market share over DA. That and I could see Extropia going in for that Guyver style for some reason
>ultimates again, because trying to flesh craft yourself into a living god is pretty up their alley as well

>>50004057
Supremacy/Harmony is definitely Exhumans. It's just brute power at any cost. The body is a tool to achieve goals, nothing more.

>Humanity is limited. Human innovation is not.

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>>50004017
It's also got neat ideas for random Sci-Fi stuff. I've always wanted my players to encounter Cynosure on some barren exoplanet.

>>50004121
I'm pretty sure a Cynosure in EP terms would be the same as the Oracle AI from Think Before Asking, aka a MASSIVE x-threat that doesn't even know its an x-threat. Honestly a barren exoplanet is the best place to encounter something like that

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>>50003946

>>50004057
Naw, Supremacy seems to be pretty similar to the Rortians. Though I'm not sure the Rortians actually have foot soldiers like that.

>>50004182
Cynosure strikes me as too advanced to be an X-Threat, if that makes sense.

It's already freed itself from any kind of actual restraint and is pretty disinterested in humanity for the most part.

>>50004213
To be honest when you read the fluff for Supremacy its basically how Eclipse Phase was shaking out before the TITANs ended it all. Mass mental uploading, AI so powerful they invented a word to describe the embarrassment of mistaking an AI for a relative, massive fleets of nano drones that attend your every need. The Supremacy end game really isn't that far removed from where EP is now

>>50004230
So its the end state of whatever happened to the TITANs? I can dig that, and it would explain how the PCs could communicate with it, if they tried that

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So are predator ex-humans just a bunch of furry vore fetishist LARPers?

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>>50004761
Pretty much.

>>50004790
Yeah, this. And much like furries, they have no originality.

>>50003501
Jovians are trash tier when it comes to combat, their tech is completely ass backwards and gets beaten by thingamajigs built by anarkiddies in the rim in a cave

>>50005528
Honestly straight up combat is one of the few areas I would rate the Jovians highly in. Sure they might not have ready access to the high tier of e-warfare gubbins, but they don't use gear that's vulnerable to it either. They slip under your tech level and just really on dedicated battle hardened soldiers to do the heavy lifting. Against a human opponent that can be quite the advantage

>>50005915

And, something you can say about them you can only say the same about the Titanians, that every single jovian citizen who is actually a citizen went through basic, and knows how to use a rifle.

>>50005915
They also have tons of actual military hardware. Powersuits and heavy weapons. That kind of thing.

>>50005942
I'm trying to remember, who has more citizens; the Commonwealth in terms of citizens with shares who can vote and so on, and the Republic with its citizenship as a reward for service?
Because at a push (in a scenario where their militias are activated) I'd say the Commonwealth has more men under arms but the Republic has more experienced ones (most Titanians having only done basic and the subsequent brush up courses without seeing active duty)

>>50005984
Honestly not that hard to get in EP, assuming you're serious about pissing in the Junta's porridge you'd have a jail broken fabber with the blueprints and feed stock for a small army's worth of equipment

>>50005989
The real question though. Who has more antimatter?

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Okay, so let's rate the Jovian's combat effectiveness in different areas, to get a true idea of how they stand up to the various militaries. The categories are:

>Direct ground combat effectiveness: Basically infantry, tanks, and aircraft shooting each other up
>Direct space combat effectiveness: Fleet on fleet battles
>Espionage and intelligence: How good they are at spying and gathering intel on the enemy
>Subversive warfare: Hacking, electronic warfare, EMP, jamming, etc.
>Strategic ability: How good they are at planning at a strategic level

>>50006020
Definitely the Jovians, when you don't have to publicly publish your military budget its a lot easier to pour it into WMD production. Although I think the Commonwealth might have more facilities capable of making it, so it might be a situation where the Titanian arsenal can massively increase practically overnight if needed

>>50005989

I think it's like, 60 mil to 45 mil, favoring the Titanians. Don't forget to account for possible pound-for-pound advantages in morph bases.

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>>50006056
>Direct ground combat effectiveness: Basically infantry, tanks, and aircraft shooting each other up
Pretty good, but the only things they have over others are experience and good chain of command. Get on upped in materials and actual soldiers by a couple other groups. Ultimates and other dedicated combat heavies would run roughshod over them in this respect.

>Direct space combat effectiveness: Fleet on fleet battles
Arguably the best in the system. Only the Titanians and some corp forces might come close. Stymied by lack of AIs to do some super complicated stuff.

>Espionage and intelligence: How good they are at spying and gathering intel on the enemy
Pretty good, though other groups are probably better. Their isolationism probably doesn't help them much, though it likely stops a certain amount of enemy Intel gathering. Fall behind compared to some transhuman groups because they simply aren't as adapted for a digital landscape.

>Subversive warfare: Hacking, electronic warfare, EMP, jamming, etc.
Good protection because of paranoia, but it's never detailed beyond being very good. So I can't really say. Their ability to offensively engage in that stuff is probably lower than other groups though.

>Strategic ability: How good they are at planning at a strategic level
Great, but impeded by paranoia. Though, that may be improved by depending on the genuine strategic outlook.

Overall, strong but lacking due to safeguards and fear. Probably up there as one of the best conventional militaries in the system, but that might not be worth as much as it seems.

>>50006056
>Ground to Ground
Slightly less effective than average due to e-warfare vulnerability, and a few well trained and Fall hardened units can't compensate for relatively under trained citizen soldiers. On a unit to unit basis they match up, but strategically they suffer
>Fleet to fleet
Ships were top of the line ten years ago, and that line hasn't moved much. Still not a long term advantage and without a strategic refit and restructure Jovian fleet assets are likely to suffer. For direct combat purposes safe to assume the Jove Fleet is, hull for hull and crew for crew, roughly equivalent to the best Direct Action/Planetary Consortium forces can offer. They might have been far from Earth but they saw their share of fighting
>Espionage and intelligence
"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu. Jovian space is almost legendarily difficult to infiltrate and subvert even for relatively short term low intensity surveillance operations. The Jovian intelligence agencies, descended from a variety of North and South American sources, are well steeped in defensive operations. However the Jovian outward eye is lacking, due in part to ideological refusal to adapt to system wide transhuman trends. Jove's extreme introversion is both our enemy and our friend in this arena
>subversive warfare
A similar story to espionage, defensively you will find few polities better equipped and more aware of the risks of cyber infiltration and electronic warfare, with a reliance on hardwired systems and human-AI decision interfaces preventing many of the staple tactics of the hacker-commando. Though no opponent is to be underestimated in any theatre, it is anticipated that the Jovian policy of tightly leashed AIs and a societal resistance to the use of cyberbrains will greatly reduce both the scale and intensity of the multifaceted network attacks that would be anticipated in a full scale warfare scenario

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>>50006056
Personally, I think that in ground combat, they are average. They are probably one of the few militaries with the heavy equipment (artillery, tanks, air support, etc.) but they also don't have legions of AGI's to send into battle. While they can certainly remote control reapers and synthmorphs with no moral qualms (since it's no different than remote controlling a modern day drone) allowing them to avoid casualties, they still don't have the AGI's to have a ton of troopers, so they rely on quality over quantity.

Space combat is definitely their stronger suite. They may not have AGI's, but they have computers and calculators and their really isn't much of a difference when those computers can do everything except make a decision for you. They also, like with ground combat, have one of the only space fleets to have large amounts of heavy equipment. Dreadnoughts, carriers, battleships, etc.

Espionage is also on their side. Firewall mentions that they are being extensively infiltrated by the Jovian's (who aren't afraid to sleeve into morphs they consider non-human if the job calls for it). Whether the Jovian's are being extensively infiltrated themselves is unknown, although considering that would probably require sleeving into a flat with no cortical stack most of the time, it'd be hard to find people willing to take such risks.

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>>50006056
>>50006227
Subversive warfare is mixed. It is mentioned that the Jovian's specialize in taking advantage of the transhumans weakpoints, and I imagine hacking, viruses, and other subversion might come into play. However, they don't have the AGI's that might be really good at such tasks. On the defensive, however, they are fantastic. Their ships and defenses are designed specifically to prevent such subversion, and if they will hold up to TITAN subversion, then they can surely hold up to transhuman subversion.

Strategic warfare is mixed again. They have one of the few actual militaries, and many of their members are veterans of various wars, giving them experience in warfare that others just don't have. They also seem to have an extensive "simulation" system of some kind, given that they constantly run simulations against TITANs, and I'm assuming against transhumans as well. However, the lack of AGI's (again) to determine the best course of action and run with it instantly might hurt them against some of the other factions.

>>50003445
>everyone has a problem with the Jovian's

everyone-1

>>50006056
>>50006163
>Strategic Assessment
Excellent long term planning, if considered purely from a Jovian perspective. Even before the Republic was created the officer cadre that would found Jove picked an excellent strategic location to build their new nation in Jupiters orbit. All those seeking to cut months off their journey or zeroes off their fuel bill must go through their gravity well, while the Jovians may pick and choose how much contact they have with the wider system. Also the sheer scale and complexity of the orbital system of Jupiter makes it much easier to hide defensive stations, research operations and other nasty surprises of which the Jovians are so fond.
Goal wise, this strategic brilliance falters. From little we have gleamed of the inner workings of the Republic, the prevailing opinion at this time seems to be "leave them be and let them burn themselves out". The Republic has adopted a siege mentality against an enemy that has not even presented itself at the gates, a major cause for concern going forward. Simply put the Republic currently believes in a historical dialogue that ends with the transhuman barbarians at the gates of their new Rome simply fading away, and without harder intelligence on how deep that theory runs questions must be asked about how Jove will respond when that dialogue fails to come to fruition

I know people have gone to earth post fall to scavenge shit, but have they ever brought people back? Has anyone escaped without getting killed by TITANS or kill sats?

>>50006327

Earth Survivor is both a sample character AND a background package.

>>50006327
Yes and yes.

>>50006327
It happens. Very rarely but as >>50006344 points out often enough for that to be a valid background for your character, and for their existence to be a major source of hope for the reclaimer movement. Tends to get hushed up the PC for obvious reasons, or presented as "incredibly brave and very lucky survivor escapes the hell that is now the Earth" sort of headlines

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>>50006327
Actually, how respected would an Ultimate Earth Survivor be?

>>50006377
As in they escaped Earth and joined up?
Or an ultimate that survived the Fall and managed to get off Earth ten years later?
Either way, HUGE respect from the ultimates for surviving that hell and the interdiction. Such a character would be the stuff of legends and camp fire ghost stories with the rep score to back it up

>>50003445

They are an appropriate human response to a catastrophic technological disaster, in terms of their stance towards the exploits and weaknesses of technology spreading WMD's in short order.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think their idea is the right thing, but that their response is understandable, and shouldn't be the issue in the fiction that gets vilified.

In my opinion, the authors really need to tone down the mustache twirling villains.

>>50003679

You mean the best is the one with the floating brain in a synth body right?

>modify body like a synth w/ synth upgrades, including awesome weapon ports and innate armor under your worn armor
>can't be taken over with hacks
>be psychic

>>50006570

Brain Box, Transhuman P. 198

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>>50003518
Sometimes I take the Brasilia faction, rename them and their leader to match the Jovian's, and play them as Purity. Their methods of operating are basically point for point the same.

Which reminds me, one thing that I think people often forget is that the Jovian's would have almost no moral qualms about remote controlling a reaper synthmorph into battle, sense it's basically no different than a modern day drone, and can't be hacked if there's no AI to hack. Plus it saves on the limited quantity of soldiers they have.

>>50006849
True, there's a few references to Jovians buying up military grade synthmorphs so they can remote pilot them. Bugger is they can still be hacked and the remote control turned against you. In fact its easier really, with no AI to put up a defence you have to hope the operator is fast enough to alert e-warfare specialists to fight off the intrusion or shut the drone down

>>50006056

>Direct ground combat effectiveness: Basically infantry, tanks, and aircraft shooting each other up

Decent, reliable. Heavy armor will always save your ass, and hard hitting weapons will always hurt. Downside is less expendable assets like drone armies, and no homing rounds if their combat doctrine doesn't rely on tac-net weapon links. Laser-guided munitions might be more prevalent though.

>Direct space combat effectiveness: Fleet on fleet battles

Very certain by legacy alone, and facilities, they have the largest fleet, and the gulf between the various factions on any tech gap is the smallest here.

>Espionage and intelligence: How good they are at spying and gathering intel on the enemy

Their special agents aren't actually tech restricted like their populace is, they still require permission for things like nanos. For the run of the mill military unit though, nope.

>Subversive warfare: Hacking, electronic warfare, EMP, jamming, etc.

As good as any other when it comes to offense, the upside is they're less vulnerable to it from others.

>Strategic ability: How good they are at planning at a strategic level

Just as good as any other faction, upside is a high concentration of talent pool from military legacy connections.


To be frank, there is probably very little gap between the major militaries of the 3 largest faction, PC, Jovian, and Titanians. The heaviest weighing difference imo, is probably how many warships they have, and how much anti-matter they got.

>>50006849
Piloting over long distances is never going to be as comfortable or fluid as actually being the machine.

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>>50006945
Oh, really? Still, sense there's no AI inside to preserve, there could be a self-destruct set to go off if a hack is detected.

>>50006849

>remote controlling a reaper synthmorph into battle, sense it's basically no different than a modern day drone, and can't be hacked if there's no AI to hack

If you can remote pilot the drone, some wizard class hacker can spoof their signal and ride yours and take control of it also.

I doubt Jovians rely on remote drones as any backbone to their military force for offense, other than for expendible recon drones to tag enemies for seeker missiles.

>>50007024
That would either be the first thing to subvert, or the first thing to target. As a rule its a bad idea to rig a bundle of well armoured ordinance like a Reaper to self destruct. You do not want one of those igniting and cooking off in the middle of your line.
A shutdown shortcut would be the ideal solution, sure it sucks to have to slag the control circuits but its better than leaving it in enemy hands

>>50007084
I think they reference them using Fighting Kites in the Recognition Guide for recon. And I remember some stuff about them using drones outfitted with less than lethal weaponry for riot suppression, but considered that story implied that everywhere else uses lethal rounds to break up riots because lolstacks I'm not sure how canon I want that to be. Sure people are immortal but cops open firing into the crowd has never played well

>>50007112

Again, they'll use drones for recon, but it won't be masses of rank and file drone infantry, or drone tanks for instance.

A drone with non-lethal weaponry for civie crowd control isn't going to be much of a concern if it gets subverted.

>>50003445
2-5. I'm not really interested in talking about them yet again, though. Maybe in a few days.

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>>50007193
Who would you rather talk about then?

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>>50003710
>he bought into the optical computing meme
That's adorable.

>>50006227
I remember it being mentioned that Firewall has been unable to get anyone on the inside of Jovian intelligence.

>>50006377
Celebrity status.

>>50007208

>smart manipulators holding shields with shaped super thermite charges

Better hope your armor for energy is 25 or greater.

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>>50007435
If that's true, then the Jovian's got some seriously tight security. Easy to see why though.

"Oh, I see you are in a slicer. We will have to take your cortical stack before you enter the habitat, I hope you understand."
>"What? I'm not so sure about that..."
"You will also not be allowed to leave except in very special circumstances. Are you ready to go through the process?"
>"On second though, I think I'll pass..."

>>50007208
Lets talk about the Titanians. Are they good or evil or what?

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>>50007842
They're socialists, and therefore evil.

>>50007842
>>50007952
This desu senpai.

>>50007842
>>50007952
Don't forget about Janteloven.

>>50007842

They do the scariest shit in the nicest way possible. Don't get on their bad side and you're cool.

>>50007842

They're national socialists.

All about the superiority of their moral and just system, and how evil the barbarity of others are.

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>>50007842
They're an evil country run by mob mentality, that get's away with their actions because "democracy can't be wrong".

>>50008022
Janteloven abiding national socialists run by ASI, highly-compromised bureaucrats, and people who vote for shit that they know nothing about. If you say the wrong thing, they'll take your morph and give it to someone they think deserves it more than you.

>>50006056
>Direct ground combat effectiveness: Basically infantry, tanks, and aircraft shooting each other up

Not really that relevant IMO. In terms of a tier list I'd do something like:
>Rorties/Ultimates/similar
>High end PMCs (Direct Action et al)
>Titan/mid end PMCs (TC special forces are up with tier 1 though)
>Jovian forces/anarchist militias (which isn't really a knock against the Jovians, the anarchists which are left are pretty hardcore).
>Security forces (NQPD etc)

The Jovians have a lot of institutional power from inherited earth militaries, but they fall below the top three due to lack of willingness to fork, use psychosurgically augmented forces, and potentially time accelerated simspaces depending on their requirements. Gear is easy to get a hold of thanks to nanofabrication, so only stuff like nukes and antimatter could be limited.

>>Direct space combat effectiveness: Fleet on fleet battles
Similar to the rest. They have the biggest fleet, and most people are probably still using 10+ year old ships. They're likely a little "dumber" tactically because of the lack of specialized Egos or AGI support. This is a small difference. They are likely more cautious tactically, because they aren't as willing to desleeve/die. They have the most powerful fleet though, that's known. I don't think they have a huge edge, but enough to not get fucked it.

>>Espionage and intelligence: How good they are at spying and gathering intel on the enemy
Low. The panopticon doesn't favor them, because they don't have armies of data-sifting AI picking through it. They're probably good at HUMINT stuff, but are ideologically inflexible enough that forking your agents a dozen times, sleeving them into worker bots and getting eyes on that way won't be as easy.

Cont.

>>50008167
Cont


>Subversive warfare: Hacking, electronic warfare, EMP, jamming, etc.
Hacking: They're really the only major faction which is adverse to sapient Exploit AGIs as agents. That'll hurt. EW they should be ok at, but EW is hard to figure in AF10. (I don't really know). EMP and jamming is the same generally, its all about pure electronic tech, and the Jovians don't lag there.

>Strategic ability: How good they are at planning at a strategic level
Worse than the Argonauts, Firewall, and maybe OZMA (the ASI factions). Lack of forking and, AI, and ego alteration can hold them back here, but they have a lot of experienced people as a potential edge. This is probably where they are weakest.

>>50007842
They sound nice and democracy is cool, but the Orchestra and anything state secret related is spooky as fuck. They're a weird mix between idealistic democracy and hardcore 5 EYES shit.

>>50008167
>Rorties/Ultimates

Rorties and Ultimates in the same tier?

>>50008292
>>50008167

A Rortie spider-tank to your average Ultimate is not exactly an equal comparison, so much so, the ultimate, or rather any non-rortie military force won't bother trying to make a rortie knockoff to counter rorties.

They'll spend their resources on WMDs.

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>>50008386
I think an Ultimate would just take the spider tank as a challenge.

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>>50008427


He would, but would need to rely on environmental factors and better tactics to reliably take down a Rortie spider-tank.

Such as softening it up with seeker missiles from far away, and get in close with plasma guns to look cool while finishing it off.

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>>50008465
An aspirant maybe, an Autarch would come at that bitch with a sword.

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>>50008492

That's dumb, you're dumb. An Autarch would slap your shit for suggesting something so stupid.

You come rushing at the fucker with 4 swords, while charging, and they had best be plasma swords. Otherwise you have no chance of getting through its fuck huge armor rating.

>>50008517
Actually, I'm interested in it statistically now. How would you stat an Autarch? I'm not sure there's a set for one in the books.

>>50008517
autarch just spends a moxie to get through armor to hit the giant enemy spiderbotcrab's weak point for massive damage

>>50008540

Whatever they are, they likely have 80+ in their relevant combat abilities not counting specialties and equipment bonuses, and being significant NPC's, have moxie.

>>50008545

Alright, you got one fucking sword and, generously, 10 moxie.

Can you statistically take out the fucker in 10 shots?

>>50008540
The bare minimum for consideration as an autarch is
>one skill at 90+, twelve or more at 70+.
so I'd basically just make them excellent at whatever they wanted to do.

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I think the "best" battlearmor in the game is really the construction loader.

More durability, harder to wound, and no limit to the armor you can wear while piloting it, so if the battlearmor does get trashed, you won't be vulnerable when you exit it.

The baby just needs an upgrade on its armor however many weapon mounts and weapons you can afford, and shape-adjusting, and flight and you got yourself a veritech fighter.

>>50008587
2 swords x 4 speed x 2d10+6 armor ignoring damage

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So this was in the last thread right before it was archived, but the Jovian's have five political "factions" within the republic. There is:

>Determinist: Wait for everybody else to die or leave
>Expansionist: Conquer space around Jupiter then isolate ourselves
>Hawks: Conquer everyone else before they can develop too much tech
>Reclaimers: Reclaim Earth
>Reformist: Become more like everybody else

Which faction do you think would be the best for the Jovian's to follow? I'm personally inclined towards the expansionists.

>>50008644

You only get 10 hits of armor ignoring damage using moxie.

>>50008683
which is 20d10+60

Rolled 10, 4, 1, 2, 3, 7, 4, 7, 3, 4, 10, 1, 6, 10, 1, 10, 8, 1, 2, 3 + 60 = 157 (20d10 + 60)

>>50008801

>>50008815
Got em.

>>50008815
Dreadnought dead twice

>>50008815

Congrats you killed it, now how well did it fare against you?

I imagine it opens up with its " Cannon" and HEAP Seeker Missiles as you're closing in, then switches to its Railgun Automatic Rifle on full auto when you're face to face with it.

>>50008167

>The Jovians have a lot of institutional power from inherited earth militaries, but they fall below the top three due to lack of willingness to fork, use psychosurgically augmented forces, and potentially time accelerated simspaces depending on their requirements. Gear is easy to get a hold of thanks to nanofabrication, so only stuff like nukes and antimatter could be limited.

Small point of order: the Jovians in Military Intelligence and the Special Forces do use forking, psychosurgery etc. They consider joining those units to be the equivalent of dying for their country, so they're willing to do the transhuman stuff.

>>50008884
*teleports behind it*

Heh, nothring personnel, rorty, but that was just my holograms

>>50009049

I don't doubt the Ultimate hits the fucker, because its fray is 30.

That's before its even halved when dodging shooting.

Moxie is really a Rortie's worst nightmare, and HEAP standard seeker missiles.

>>50009011
They can yeah, but I get the sense that it's to a lesser extent than the Exhumans with loyalty to Titan that CFI uses for example. More of a necessary evil than an eagerly pursued edge.

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>>50008631
>so I'd basically just make them excellent at whatever they wanted to do.

I'd make them be excellent at being excellent.

>>50008678
Reclaimers

It is our sacred duty to return to holy Terra

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>>50010144

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>>50008006


The perfect is the enemy of the good

Can swarmanoids fly their component drones into a biomorph's ear or nose and foul up their brain?

>>50010144
I wonder how many Imperiumfags are Jovefags.

>>50010280
Unless if they're made of nano or femtobots, no.

>>50010371
Phew. TV lied to me again, but this time it's a good thing.

>>50010280
No, but they can fly down peoples throats and suffocate them.

>>50010406
I think I know which movie you're talking about, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was called. Did it involve keeping the bots in a matchbox?

>>50003917
>no one ever puts in the effort to write some expanded, homebrew lore for them?

Lurk more or head back to >>>r/eclipsephase

>>50010414
It wasn't that movie, sadly. It's a British TV movie about someone hijacking robot bees to kill everyone in Britain who used a killer hashtag.

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>>50010370
>I wonder how many Imperiumfags are Jovefags
I reckon all the Imperiumfags in /epg/ are Jovefags, but only most of the Jovefags are Imperiumfags.

As an aside, these ads are pure cancer. Gookmoot pls.

>>50010443
Oh shit, thats the new series of Black Mirror isn't it?
Honestly just about all of those are fantastic inspirations for Eclipse Phase.

>>50010644
So that would explain why there is a huge chunk of each thread just empty.

>>50010370
I'm a Taufag and a Jovefag...

>>50010370
I don't care about 40k, so I don't know who I'm supposed to care about in Eclipse Phase.

>>50008633
You might also want to invest in a windshield and air supply, seeing as your cabrio veritech is not fully enclosed. But yes, for pure durability the hyperdense exo is quite nice.

>>50010280

>not going into their anus and blowing out their ass

>>50012259
It'd be a pain cleaning the shit out the small bits.

>>50003715

Why are you assuming that the average Jovians soldier is a shitty untrained teenage conscript? Wasn't it established that a good number of Jovian soldiers are hardened veterans of the Fall, and the rest actually got full, actual military training?

Or did we just retroactively decide that the Jovians don't know how to fight now.

>>50003445
2 and 4. Fucking Christcuck muds should be exterminated.

Where can I find a game of EP? I want to play, but I don't think I've ever seen an ad on Game Finder or roll20 for it.

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>>50012331
The actual fighting force of Jupiter is unknown/classified, all I can find in the books is that the standard soldier receives one year of training, followed by three years of active duty (grunt work, engineering or whatever). Not much info about "career soldiers", though both CDC as well as Space Force units are allowed to use specialized combat morphs, whatever that means (morph stuffed with cybernetics or actual combat morph).

Rimward further includes the heavy use of teleoperated drones (unspecified purpose), exos and cybernetics, not much else.

Hardened veterans of the Fall can be found among the upper ranks, though most of the rank and file troopers in 10 AF will be less experienced due to lack of Jovian x-risks.

Running games in anarchist habitats seems like a huge chore.

Okay, there's no money, no one really has jobs since anarchists can just print everything in existence thanks to unlimited power and resources. What's the incentive to do anything? What do you see when going down the streets of Locus? What's in a typical building? Why have bars or restaurants, aren't those capitalist pig dog institutions?

What do you even do in anarchist habs other then sit around and smell your own farts while AIs and drones run and maintain and guard the habitat? Make shitty poetry and babby arts and crafts?

I know these seem like dumb questions but I genuinely can't ever imagine running a game in anarchist polities. It just seems like too much of a hassle, and for a setting that's so alienating from baseline 21st century civilization that's saying a lot. Even the nominally familiar setting of Mars is basically an alien society compared to humans from the 21st century, so anarchists might as well be eldritch abominations in comprehending how their society works.

>>50013031
>Why have bars or restaurants, aren't those capitalist pig dog institutions?
Only when they operate capitalistically. Communally run businesses could certainly be a thing.

>>50013300
But they're also autonomists, so a restaurant would be "Make your own fucking food. There's the kitchen."

>>50013031
What, have you never been a NEET? They'd browse the internet and play games all day, being free from toil.

>>50013031
>What's the incentive to do anything?
Why do people do anything except try to make money?
>What do you see when going down the streets of Locus?
A shitload of things, Locus is pretty nutty.
>What's in a typical building?
On Locus every building will have its own life support, so that's part of it. Beyond that, it depends on what the function of the building is, but a lot of shared social spaces.
>Why have bars or restaurants, aren't those capitalist pig dog institutions?
Not necessarily, businesses don't need to be capitalistic. Communal or similar businesses give a lot of space for people to socialize.
>What do you even do in anarchist habs other then sit around and smell your own farts while AIs and drones run and maintain and guard the habitat?
There's not a lot on this, but EP anarchist society seems to be suborganized into smaller groups of people which handle particular tasks like defense or overseeing drones. Seeing as there's an hourly work week, there's clearly some stuff left to do.

>>50013320
Not necessarily. There are reasons people go out when they can eat or drink the same thing at home.

>>50004097
What I like about it is that every path is treated as having legitimate merits and leaves it to the player to decide what is truly right

>>50013435
We get it, Jovefag. You don't like how your faction is unfairly maligned.

>>50013457
Actually I favored supremacy/harmony in beyond earth, I just dislike having my opponents strawmanned

>>50003445
6)

They are fine, the game is fine, everything is fine, why do you keep bringing this shit up? Grow some sack and take the game on its own merits, either accept the premise and the narrative or go crawl into a neo-orcas cloaca.

>>50013435
Harmony has no legitimate merits.

Purity (my personal favorite mainly for its aesthetics) I can see as reasonable from a cautionary perspective, of course Supremacy is just taking the brakes off, but Harmony is disgusting devolution. Why would we biologically downgrade ourselves to match the environment of another world when we can just as easily change the environment to suit us or solve the problem of adaptation altogether?

>>50013618
We just came from a world where we tried that and fucked up so hard we killed the Earth. BE starts not long after the human race reached an inflection point on all resources.
With that in mind, an ideology based on accepting the wonder and the beauty of this new alien Eden before us has its merits. Harmony is about learning from the past
In EP terms Harmony would be extrasolar colonization with the bare minimum of invasive species and technologies, or what the Titanians try to sponsor

>>50013031
The nanofab magic still needs resources to work, and plenty. The hab still needs electricity. Unless you're a fan of ASI, someone actually needs to program and oversee the fucking AI that runs everything. The hab needs to be protected from outside threats. Real jobs in an anarchist habitat are the ones that are indispensable to the collective's ongoing survival. People doing them are likely the highest rep individuals in the habitat, because why the fuck wouldn't you upvote the person in charge of the air you breathe?

In a rep economy, your rep level determines your purchasing power. Though no one is obliged to give someone a favor, the incentive to satisfy the needs of a high rep individual is greater since your own reputation receives a better boost. It's also good advertising for you because panopticon.

So outside of the absolutely necessary occupations, economic activity in an anarchist habitat will probably be dictated by the needs and wants of the highest rep individuals. Of course most communities won't just become Joe the Life Support Technician's harem of sylph whores because they've been pinging him since he arrived on the station. How much he can throw his weight around depends on how hard he will be to replace, as well as what the other high rep individuals do. I suppose any anarchist hab that has its shit together has some people who covertly ensure that key individuals don't have any bright ideas like a dictatorship. But anyway - the economy will probably go where they want it to.

Bear in mind that's just my extrapolation. Though I think the majority of anarchist collectives aren't cities like Locus but rather smaller groups that specialize in particular goods or services, and get what they need, but cannot make, from other similarly specialist collectives via barter, and among themselves they eschew both money and rep.

>>50013754

Also, it should be noted that Locus is big enough that those smaller collectives exist and work inside it, interacting with each other. So the group of say, computer nerds who do nothing but dick around programming or building sweet ecto cases all day will occasionally need to talk to the drone harvester guys, or they might bump into the digital art collective who need a solid to pirate the latest edition of space-photoshop. That's where a lot of "economic" interactions come in, individuals or small groups in sub-communities connecting with other sub-communities inside their larger community ecosystem.

>>50013754
>>50013936
It would be nice if there were a way to quantify the value of one person's work in comparison to that of another.

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have people done anything interesting with the planet Olaf?

>>50014186
That value is found only in the exchange between the two of them. Some artists work might not look like much but if it holds a certain appeal to a techie that works on life support systems suddenly one painting can translate to a months worth of maintenance work

>>50013618
>>50013718
Thank you both for proving my point, it's left to player interpretation and that's what's great about it, wish it had been more then what it was too though

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>>50014186
We have a word for that. It's called "money".

>>50014282
In a sentence: "Shut up and take my money."

>>50014455
The whole point of the autonomist system is there is no money, no outside market forces, just two people exchanging goods and services without capital
That's why I used the artist as an example, in that scenario the art would have little value except to a certain few who enjoy the style for personal reasons, enough so they are willing to do put in a few hours work in exchange for examples of said artwork. Its an exchange of specific goods or services for other specific goods or services, not boiling everything down to some supposed universal capital

>>50014491

No, that's the whole point of the *anarchist* system. Money is still in use by the Extropians, who are also autonomists. Don't lump the entire AA in with the poncy ancoms; it also has the statist social cyberdemocracy of the titanians, the transitional capitalistic anarchy of the extropians, and the true hedonistic anarchy of the scum, after all.

>>50014522
Your right, apologies. I often wonder just how much Titan regrets being in bed with the AA some days. Their arrival at Locus when the PC tried to start shit over copyright infringement of all things really gave the AA a lot of false hope

>>50014522
>transitional
>Extropians
Do I have to format text from the PDFs again?

>>50014555
>your
This explains so much.

>>50014491
I think Autonomists would develop 'money' but just wouldn't call it that. Direct barter breaks down quickly when someone's work is say, time sensitive or not easy to break down into smaller parts.

Instead of a fiat currency or arbitrarily selecting a certain metal, it's far more likely that effective portions of one's fabber stock allowance would take the form of easy 'cash.' Where it's appropriate anyway.

By mises at least, all 'money' is is a good that everyone accepts the worth of, near universally and for their own reasons.

I do agree however that, amongst small autonomist collectives, just asking the person with what you want, what they want in turn, and working out a deal isn't hard. The rep economy is, admittedly, just computer-arbitrated social credit, ala early man.

>>50014556

Isn't a Transitional economy just one that uses both credits and rep?

>>50014634
rep isn't the important thing. The important part of the New Economy is that all citizens have full access to public CMs and an allowance of feedstock and energy. In the Transitional Economy, citizens have limited access to public fabbers and makers, and have an allowance of feedstock and energy that can be used for basic things like non-smart clothes and food. All else needs to be bought. In the Old Economy, there are no public CMs, Fabbers, or Makers. You have to buy anything you want, or at least rent it.

To put it in a nutshell:

>muh nanofabrication
>muh means of production

>>50014634
Not quite, they do use both, but that isn't the definition itself. I don't want to block quote the whole thing, but it's from page 62

It has more to do with access to cornucopia machines than credit vs rep

>>50014720
>>50014802

Oh,m well, there you go then, myh bad. Been using it wrong this whole time.

>>50015186
It's an easy mistake to make because most of the new economies do use rep, while most of the old economies use money.

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>>50014720
It's weird, you would think there would be currency economies that allow free ownership of nanofabricators, given that scarcity is still a thing even with them.

>>50015668

Well, somebody still has to make and maintain the fabricators - which cuts down on the "free" part. Extropian systems don't give a fuck if you own a fabber, but there's also not a strong point to just hand them out on the street corner

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>>50015709
So the extropian's allow people who can afford nanofabricators to own them? Oh, okay. My mistake.

Still, I'm not a huge fan of the reputation system. I wouldn't want my "wealth" to be based on the opinions of a bunch of SJW's. The nice thing about a currency system is that I only get wealth when I make things people want, not by being a person people like. It's kind of like the Chick-fil-a controversy that happened a while ago, if we had a reputation system all of a sudden the owner would be much poorer because he held an unpopular opinion, but because we have a currency economy as long as he makes chicken sandwiches people want he won't be poor. Sure, it might mean people aren't the nicest, but at least it ensures good quality.

>>50015864

Extropians are +Private Property, yeah; they're anarchists in the sense that they don't believe in government restrictions on business or regulation at all. They are anarcho-capitalists; you can privately own whatever you'd like, buy and sell whatever you'd like, manufacture whatever you'd like... as long as you can afford it.

>>50015864
The rep system is connected to everyone, not just a tight knit clique that likes to shit on people who they perceive as being against the shifting agendas. Providing you're not a completely irredeemable dickhead to literally every single person you ever talk to, you'll eventually find a group or an activity that accepts and supports you. If the internet has proven anything its that with 7 billion of us there's no such as "is it just me", because its never just you, and it never has been.
Plus people who recklessly ping down someone's rep for purely ideological purposes will see a MASSIVE downward spike in their rep from people who are invested in the stability of the rep economy. People don't like people who start shit like that for no good reason. Its the future, no one gives a shit if you're not some picture perfect Uplift hugging progressive so long as you do what you say you're going to do in a timely manner. Its about your reputation as a worker, not your politics

>>50016225
So what happens to someone who desperately tries to please everyone by pinging up their ratings while hiding everything they could about their true selves? Do they get dinged down anyway for being too suspiciously spotless, or do they end up self-destructing from the pressure, or does something else happen?

>>50016272
Dinged down and possibly even investigated if they're spotless enough, because that sounds a lot like a rep inflation scheme using an AI to manipulate rep scores to some end or another

>>50016288
It sounds like they won't have any sympathy if it turns out the someone was a mentally unbalanced crybaby who only wanted Mommy to love them.

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>>50016288
Can't be too perfect, eh? Classic toll poppy syndrome?

>>50016332
EH, depends on if they cocked up the economy too badly, but there would definitely be sympathy if the upvoter was mentally unbalanced in some way. They'd probably get offers of psychotherapy or maybe even psychosurgery, or their votes would be weighted slightly differently on their home hab to account for them constantly pinging people up

>>50016349
Tall poppy syndrome is more of the Titanian commonwealths thing, but you've got to admit that a person who constantly upvotes every single person they ever see while hiding literally everything about themselves would be suspicious. Especially in a sousveiled society, every one leaves a trail, and no one has a perfectly clean life

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>>50016402
It kind of bothers me though, that even if I'm a nice person to everyone around me, all that means is that now people are dedicated to finding dirt on me so they can ping me down. It's one of the things I dislike about this "sousveiled" society, it sounds like there is almost no privacy.

>>50016225
>Plus people who recklessly ping down someone's rep for purely ideological purposes will see a MASSIVE downward spike in their rep from people who are invested in the stability of the rep economy.

Wait, so it's not realistic for all extropians to have minimal @-rep because angry anarchists keep downvoting their shit constantly for not being TRUE AUTONOMISTS who need to be kicked out of the AA for being vile slaving bastards?

>>50016432
There's a difference between being nice to people and upvoting every one you talk to. You don't need to upvote people unless they actually do something you happen to like or agree with, its not a social norm.
And there is privacy, few people will spy on the inside of a home and frankly the benefit of sousveillance is that there's so much info out there people can't keep up and most of the time don't care to try. Unless you give people a reason to go digging into you, people generally won't

>>50016452
Yep, in fact if that happened the anarkiddos doing the downvoting would be getting downvoted even harder by other anarchists and autonomists for being such willfully disruptive shitheels
Besides which, the rep economy is not system wide, its quite local. The anarkiddo would have to be on Extropia for their downvoting to count, and they would be drowned out by the masses of ancaps telling them to either put up and shut up or just fuck off to another AA hab

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>>50016288
>>50016332
>>50016225
>>50016402
>>50016487
I understand why some people might like the anarchists, and might even think it's a fantastic society, but as long as the anarchist realize that it's not for everybody I'm okay with them. It's like you said earlier
>"Providing you're not a completely irredeemable dickhead to literally every single person you ever talk to, you'll eventually find a group or an activity that accepts and supports you"
Well the group that would support and accept me would be the Jovian's, and as long as the anarchists would be fine leaving the Jovian's alone, then I would be fine leaving the anarchists alone.

>>50016530

If the rep economy is local, then why do rep scores transfer whereever you take your ego?

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>>50016563
>but as long as the anarchist realize that it's not for everybody I'm okay with them.

Considering this is explicitly said in Rimward, I think most anarchfags would be okay with it.

>>50016594
Abstraction for gameplay purposes. If your group really wants to do all that book keeping, then there's no reason you can't.

>>50016563
Honestly that's the biggest issue I have with how the books handle the autonomists, there doesn't seem to be any recognition of the fact that people can make a rational, informed decision to not be an autonomist. Like in Sunward, the way they talk about the average PC citizen as if the only thing stopping them from snorting nano-coke off a transsexual octo-cyberwhore tentacle is the Consortium keeping them down

>>50016594
If an entire hab says "Eh, this guy is good for it" most other habs will take their word for it. Besides, there has to be a effective range of voting so to speak, to stop people mass voting on shit that doesn't affect them in the slightest one way or the other

>>50016618

To put my group's preferance for bookkeeping in perspective, half of them play wizards in DnD-based games because micromanaging spellbooks is what they do for fun, the other half only play summoners in anima: beyond fantasy, and *all* of htem play EVE online.

>>50016643
>Like in Sunward, the way they talk about the average PC citizen as if the only thing stopping them from snorting nano-coke off a transsexual octo-cyberwhore tentacle is the Consortium keeping them down.

Not only did I not get that vibe from reading the section on the Planetary Consortium, re-reading it now, I feel like I must be missing something.

>>50016714
Its in the intro bit, its presented as a guide for Firewall agents from the outer system to infiltrate the PC IIRC. I think the example they use is a transsexual orangutan with a background in biological warfare

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>>50016225
>>50016272
It works because magical swarms of ALI use mystical algorithms to make it so that it works perfectly without bias of any kind. Pic related.

>>50016530
>the rep economy is... quite local
[citation needed]

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>>50016814
I cannot be assed to go find citations, but if the books don't go into it its a massive fucking oversight. Rep is literally putting a number to how a faction feels about you, and with something as in widespread use as @-rep, distance weighting would logically become a necessity simply to stop the problems we've so easily identified in this thread of people mass downvoting people simply due to ideological differences between users of the platform. That and on a individual level rep is about who you are as a person, and obviously the opinion of some arsehole from six asteroids over who's literally never met and never will matters precisely squat when measured against what the people who live and work with you every day feel about you
As for how it works, its EP, so this picture is always relevant at all times

>>50016885
They literally chalk it up to ALI weighting people's pings and dings for every individual thing. Otherwise, they don't have an excuse for why rep carries with you from place to place. If it were true, there might as well be a system that tells you individually whether or not they would be a nice guy in your own opinion.

So totally seriously, in what way are the ultimates not the best Faction that everyone should want to join?

>>50016676
Well, sounds like keeping tabs on your rep for different places is for you. I'd work out something to have it creep around though, depending. Word gets around, after all, especially once your score gets pretty high.

If you are going this way, I'd play around with the cost/effect of buying rep at chargen though.

>>50017686
>Not everyone believes in transhumanism
>Recent influx of overmen means they've become somewhat genocidal
Other than that they're pretty much the best

>>50017686
You don't get to be a perpetually stoned space hedonist with 20 dicks.

>>50017686
The fascist overtones? Unironically believing in Social Darwinism in the immediate aftermath of an apocalyptic event that directly proved that wrong? Not wanting to wear a kimono or a toga, depending on which ancient culture the ultimates are being written as ripping off this week?
Plus there's the whole "constant self improvement and asceticism is hard" thing

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>>50017686
Because they're degenerates.

t. Jovian

>>50017829
So, I know the ultimates have canonically beaten TITANs in a straight fight, and back during the fall at that. Have the jovians managed that yet?

>>50017776
Scum FTW!

>>50017868
Wait, the ultimates won that one? I thought it was a case of "we survived, the TITANs fucked off, we're counting that as a win" in the same sense that the Norwegian who rammed a boat through Cthulhu's head 'won' when ol squidface went back to sleep rather than deal with this bullshit

So what's the equivalent of a helicopter? Cause they wouldn't work in vacuums or low pressure environments.

>>50017975
As a transport? There's your standard issue sci-fi dropship or shuttle for moving people about on planets or in space
As fire support, Fighting Kites, Reapers and other space adapted flight capable combat synthmorphs fill the role out. A Reaper would be the preferred option though, just for flexibility

>>50008386
>Rortie

What the fuck is a rortie? I've been trying to google it but this bullshit slang has no wiki pages.

>>50017973
Something about them launching an attack on a big warbot factory and it just being an unconditional win where they blew it up. This is largely just shit I've gleamed from the threads since I've only got my comically badly misprinted core book.

>>50018027
Dude, the books are free and the scans are good, download them next time you get the chance. And could you tell me what book that's from? Because I really can't remember any ultimate action like that being described. I know they held down one of the space elevators for a long time, and they held the line in a lot of other places as well, but they've since pissed away the majority of the goodwill they used to have

>>50018020
Gatecrashing exhuman spider tank things. With multiple egos joyriding as one or someting.

>>50017975

A helicopter is the equivalent of a helicopter.

I'm pretty sure if you're on a vacuous ball or some other planet with such low atmospheric density you can probably either just get an orbital transfer or rocket sled to hop or it's small enough you can jog where you need to go.

>>50016272
The panopticon means people have very few secrets, and most people don't care about stuff like that.

>>50018118
Doing a bit of googling. I've narrowed it down to apparently being a thing in Beijing where they took out the air defences around the factory and literally just nuked it. Still trying to find a book though.

>>50018193
Further update, just found this line hiding in Firewall: 'The rajput alone can claim
outright victory against TITAN forces during the
Fall, at the scourging of Beijing.'
Note that this is an Ultimate actually saying that, mind you, not a neutral POV.

>>50018246
Rajput though, I can believe it. Besides, not sure I'd call "the scourging of Beijing" a straight up victory, sounds more like a Pyrrhic one at best. Well, for transhumanity at large anyway, the majority of the ultimates survived and its well established they couldn't give a single fuck about non-ultimate civilian casualties

>>50018300
Oh, yeah. When I was looking I found another line basically saying 'ha ha fuck civilian casualties'. In their defence, this is probably a situation where it would be justified, not that i'm sure what civilians would still be alive in the immediate vicinity of a TITAN warbot factory during the fall.

>>50018336
Oh they'd still be alive, they just wouldn't want to be at that point. For some reason a lot of the TITANs went in for mass uploading.
And yeah the ultimates are kinda dicks to....literally everyone that isn't an ultimate. Like there's an entire sidebar about how they shot up a bunch of refugees in the Fall because a bunch of stacks in a sack is easier to carry up a space elevator

>>50018371
Yeah, saw that. Literally a weight issue though. They could bring them up as stacks or not bring everyone because they'd weigh too much. It was a horrible necessity, although they were very notably not conflicted or bothered about doing it.

>>50018387
Yeah, that's the ultimates to a tee. Its fine to have to do horrible shit because circumstances force your hand, but maybe try not sounding so pleased about doing it?

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So we know that in a ground fight the transhumans have the advantage in numbers due to AGI's and the ability to create new bodies after they die. My question is just how big is this numerical advantage? Obviously there is a bit of a morph scarcity already given how many infomorphs don't have bodies yet, and the nanofabricators still need raw materials, time, and energy to make bodies. I could see a group like the PC using large of amounts of cheap security pods to act as ground troops. But surely they can't just endlessly throw infantry at the enemy right? They will run out of resources or cortical stacks at some point right?

Now, if the Jovian's got into a ground war, how would that go? Obviously the Jovian's don't have the quantity advantage, but they almost certainly have a large quality advantage, with large amounts of air support, armor, and artillery backing their troops. I could also see them giving heavy armor or even battlesuits to all of their infantry, and possibly HOPLITE suits to the special forces and shock troops. But still, they'd be going up against armies who can keep dying over and over again. So what's their strategy? Blow the enemy up until they run out of resources? Capture the land and force the fight into space? Attack the nano-fabricators and habitats producing the morphs?

>>50018425
My general understanding is that the jovians do make some use of teleoperated drones. Hideously Inefficient compared to stuffing an AGI in there but also has that same 'no actual casualties' advantage.

>>50018425
Here's the thing; transhumanity has both the numbers advantage AND a huge edge in the ability to co-ordinate their fire support. When your radio is built into your skull and you can designate co-ordinates with your eyes fire support missions can be sent a lot faster. That and transhuman minds will be in direct control of those fighters and tanks so they have the advantage there too
Jovian troop quality is a mixed bag, like most major militaries in the setting, being a combination of units that fought in the wars before the Fall, units that only saw the Fall and units that have never seen true combat at all. Combine that with a force that primarily survived and went independent because it was away from Earth I wouldn't put as big a stock in Jovian veterancy as a lot of people do.

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>>50018478
Do they have that fire support though? The Planetary Consortium only has PMC's, who won't have the heavy equipment because it's overkill for 99% of the jobs they would do. The anarchists don't have a proper military or industry to congregate and create and use the heavy equipment. The Titanian's have a centralized military, albeit a small one, so I don't know about their equipment. The other factions are unlikely to fight the Jovian's, so I won't worry about them. My point is few people in the setting even have the air support, armor, and artillery to use in the first place.

Additionaly, one thing you said was-
>"That and transhuman minds will be in direct control of those fighters and tanks so they have the advantage there too"
But that requires knowledge of how to fly those fighters and use those tanks, and the ability to multitask as both an infantryman and a fighter/tanker. Sure, some people might be able to do it, but the vast majority will either be overwhelmed or perform poorly against dedicated fighter pilots and tank crewman.

Now, you said that Jovian troop quality is a mixed bag, and while it is true that not everyone fought in the fall, that doesn't necessarily mean that the ones that didn't are going to be poor quality. First, the ones who did fight tend to make excellent drill sergeants, commanders, and NCO's to the troops, which massively increases the fighting effectiveness of the group as a whole. Additionally, there is an implied "simulation" system that the Jovian's use to train against the TITAN's and presumably, also the transhumans. Sure, a recruit may not have seen real combat yet (not much different from a recruit in any of the other militaries) but he has gone through large amounts of simulated combat, and has his more experienced soldiers by his side.

>>50018649
Fire support gear can be flash fabricated on site. Half of the reason people even know about the ultimates elite anti-TITAN unit is that they take the time to fab up purely mechanical versions of common fire support weapons just so they can be sure the TITANs won't take them over
And PMC is a huge understatement by this point, for all intents and purposes Direct Action is a full blown military on the scale of the modern US armed forces, just scraped together from all over Europe with some surviving South East Asian units.
And they have more than enough pilots to go around, and they can use skillsofts and accelerated simulspace training if they really need more of them. I know people say post apocalyptic a lot around EP, but the population of the Solar System is around the same level as Earth's now. Transhumanity at large isn't suffering for specialists. Shit, quite the opposite, half the problem of the infugee crisis is that all the skilled people have been resleeved already.
And simulated combat is a norm across all major militaries in Eclipse Phase, to the point it would be rarer to find a soldier who HASN'T been part of a simulspace combat exercise.

So I asked before but it got off track, HAVE the jovians actually won any straight up victories against TITANs or do only the ultimates have that claim?

>>50018732
So I take it that the Jovian's would probably just focus on winning the space battles, where they hold the biggest advantage, then nuking/bombarding planets and habitats instead of initiating ground combat, only getting into ground combat when absolutely necessary.

>>50018783
The "Jovians" haven't really fought the TITANs cause they weren't formed till after the Fall. They have veterans who have fought the TITANs though, although their amount of success is unknown.

>>50018783

Whatever legacy fleet assets and veteran units that merged with the Jovian polity after its formation from the Fall yes.

After the fall they have successfully taken captive TITAN war machines in the TITAN zone in Mars.

So whatever badass unit they sent to grab functional TITAN war machines is no slouch.

>>50018783
Jovians literally didn't even exist until a few months after the Fall, and the naval forces that helped found it didn't do a lot during so no, the Jovians haven't even fought the TITANs, let alone won a victory against them. The ultimates have the most solid claim, but its questionable to say the least. They might have destroyed more than they lost, but it little impact on the outcome of the Fall
>>50018795
The Direct Action fleet fought in Earth orbit during the Fall, they're pretty tough motherfuckers. The Jovians are probably one of the two fleets (Titanian Commonwealth being the other) who could put up a fight though, so really that could go either way. But the moment the Jovians started bombing the largest cities humanity has left every single polity in the system would rip them apart. Shit, they'd probably rip themselves apart if they used nukes, the Jovians like to paint themselves as the defenders of true humanity, nuking civilians and irradiating the only terrestrial planet we have left in the solar system would completely undermine that self image

>>50018865
>After the fall they have successfully taken captive TITAN war machines in the TITAN zone in Mars.
Shit really!? When the fuck did that happen?
I mean, it was probably that spec ops unit that uses transhuman tech because they think they've already died for their country by using it or whatever, but still that is impressive

>>50018888

They use the shit they could study from the captured TITAN warmachines to train their units IIRC.

>>50018913
That still doesn't explain when, or how. People have been trying to capture shit from the TQZ for years, and you're telling me the fucking Jovians, of all fucking people, managed to sneak all the way to Mars, into one of the most closely watched sectors of the Consortiums capital planet, steal tech literally left behind by the digital Elder Gods, then sneak their way all the back to Jupiter?
How in the actual fuck?

>>50018913
Does that mean that they are the faction most suited to reclaiming the Earth, given all the training, equipment, and experience they have?

>>50018946

Yes.

>>50018946
Cause Humanity Fuck Yeah, that's why

>>50018965

Probably better chances than the PC, and Titanian Commonwealth.

>>50018967
Fucking when though? Give me a book, not even a page number or anything specific, just tell me which book I need to read that details this rampant bullshitery so that I may read it with my own eyes
>>50018965
They have no more equipment and experience than anyone else. Training wise the Jovians are mostly focused on defending Jovian space, not the aggressive action you'd need to start reclaiming Earth. Right now between the three inner system powers could break the interdiction in strictly military terms, but the political will is not there, and very likely will not be for decades to come. Its a similar situation for the Jovians, made worse by the fact they'd have to cross all but openly hostile space to reach Earth orbit

Recently learned about Eclipse phase, want to give it a look. There's something I don't understand, though.

What do people DO in Eclipse Phase? Like, what kind of challenges and tribulations are there in a post-scarcity world?

>>50020046
"Post-scarcity" is just a meme.

>>50020046
>Eclipse Phase
>post-scarcity

>post-scarcity
>possible

>>50020109
>>50020343
do either of you care to expand on those statements? I don't feel ashamed when I say I'm having trouble understanding Eclipse Phase and would like some help.

>>50020427
I apologize for the memeing. People do many of the same sort of things they do today. In the inner system people have 9-5 jobs that pay them in credits and in outer system anarchist habs it's mostly a communal work shift upkeep thing. You still have to earn your keep. The PCs generally keep busy by preventing the extinction of humanity.

>>50020512
Care to recount some of your characters/campaigns? I'd love to get a sense of scale to this thing.

>>50020579
It's an old meme that no one on /epg/ plays EP. There's like three different anons that claim to be in games at the moment, though only one of them has recently shared.

>>50020605
Then make shit up. I just want something possible; I'm fine if its not true.

>>50020579
I can't help you. Like >>50020605 said, I've never actually played.:^(

>>50020579

Well, I'm joining a solo-player game wiht a rotating cast shortly (I have five PCs which will be rotated between as needed, all part of the same Firewall Cell). If you wanted I could post or upload character questionairres for them for you to read (though it is *that* questionairre, so the questions are rather loaded).

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>>50020675

>>50021850
What's this about a questionaire?

How expensive would it be on average to hire someone to cuddle with you for a hab's night cycle?

>>50023027
Depends how qt you are

>>50023038
>>50023027
And how long the night cycle is.

>>50016765
>I think the example they use is a transsexual orangutan with a background in biological warfare

Go back and re-read that part (page 140 of Sunward); what they are talking about is the misconception that outer system people have about the Planetary Consortium. A misconception. A fucking misconception.

>This is the pivotal mistake many Firewall agents from the outer system make the first time they come to the Consortium on a mission. They assume that the people here want their way of life, that they want unfettered choice and the ability to live next door to a polymorphously-perverse orangutan with a background in biowarfare agents.

That's not saying "the average PC citizen as if the only thing stopping them from snorting nano-coke off a transsexual octo-cyberwhore tentacle is the Consortium keeping them down". It's saying that such a view is a mistake many Firewall agents in the outer system make.

>>50018425
I don't think you understand. Any doomsday scenario where Jovians supposedly go on the offensive doesn't include ground combat as their main objective. What can they want to get in ground combat? Resources? Territory? That's bullshit.

They may go for some critical intel. Which means either surgical strike insertion with elite troops for a smash and grab operation where if they play their cards right numerical advantage won't matter. Or it's a large scale military operation and they secure orbit first after that just vaporising everything that is not their target.

>>50020579
"No one loves Jove".

Premise: Jovians don't have many people who like them. You probably can count them all on one hand. But they do have interests in inner system and Belt so for a couple of years their diplomats are trying to gain support in different habs that are not so keen on being gobbled up by Planetary Consortium or Ceres and it's satellites. Basically trying to gather more moderate biocons and people dissatisfied with current Belt development on their side. Also generally trying to get a facelift for their public image.

This goes for a long time and most Jovian missions are definitely sabotaged by outside forces though some habs seem to be slowly getting swayed to their support.

Players: A bunch of medium profile mercs with wide array of skills that are hired for exactly this kind of sabotage through middle a man with good rep and a history of fucking with those try to break contracts no matter who they may be. So it's probably not a set-up. They get information about when Jovians send their ship and what ship it will be. From there they must find ways to sabotage Jovian mission while keeping collateral damage to habs to a minimum.

>>50022028
Jesus christ, no.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IJCFc_qkHw

>>50018425
The MRG states that inner system companies are pumping out shitloads of Reapers and such, and keeping them in secure sites reader for action. It takes minutes to activate these reserves and fill them with forks of supersoldier egos.

If you want to match a Reaper, you need a HOPLITE, (the suit is a bit tougher, but the reaper has a smaller profile, and can get all kinds of sweird places you don't expect) so don't expect much of a quality advantage there. The republic does not have an industrial advantage, so expect inner system troops to enjoy a gear, quality (cradle to grave career merc creches vs citizen soldiers), and quantity advantage.

Armor and air are similar. Artillery is pretty horrifying in EP. The satnet in a can implies that man portable crew served ICBMs are a thing, even if intercepting them is easy.

Mind you, the only place that large scale ground combat would matter is gate ops, which the Jovians don't do a lot of.

Honestly, its a really good thing the PC is too busy making money to be very warlike, because they're the strongest faction by far if they put their mind to it.

>>50023539

HOPLITE?

>>50023539
>Honestly, its a really good thing the PC is too busy making money to be very warlike, because they're the strongest faction by far if they put their mind to it.
Probably due to the fact that there is multiple corporations and they don't want one of them getting upper hand. And open warfare will demand of them to get a leader to coordinate efforts which may lead to usurpation of power.

>>50023539

Nvm found it.

>everyone thinks their Fenrir, Reapers, battle armors are the biggest baddest motherfuckers.

A suped-up security model Flying Car destroys all of that shit.

>>50023638
IMHO if it's a large scale operation orbital laser strike is okay too. Minimal collateral damage, great precision and almost no risk of retaliation.

>>50023580
A heavier, flight capable battlesuit from NPC file 1.

>>50023638
Can't really get one of those indoors though, and vehicles aren't as tough as their huge DUR stats imply.

So, only a hypothetical but if you wanted run a SCI-FI COMBAT EXTRAVAGANZA like some kind of crazy high budget action movie, my guess is that you want Ultimates, Jovians or Both. So here's a question, what plausible but not literally-doomsday situations could result in Ultimates and Jovians fighting side-by-side with all the tools of their trade? As in not just 'some jovians and some ultimates doing fighting' but 'oh look the jovians are in fucking HOPLITE suits and the Ultimates are surfing on reapers or something'.

>>50024453
Exhuman invasion

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>>50018946
>How in the actual fuck?

How? 5 gallons of Humanity, 3 tbs elbow grease, 8 cups of know-how, and a metric ton of fuck yeah.

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>>50020046
Eclipse Phase keeps using "post-scarcity", but it's really just the writers being generally ignorant, and the rest of us turned it into a meme.

Eclipse Phase is not "post-scarcity". In order to realize post-scarcity, you practically need infinite energy (or at least a way to accumulate practically infinite energy over time) and a way to universally construct matter from said energy.

Star Trek comes infinitely closer to being post-scarcity than Eclipse Phase does, and even Star Trek isn't full post-scarcity, because post-scarcity is practically impossible to achieve, even in fiction, because we can barely comprehend such a state, and if such a state came to be, it's unlikely it would matter, because we wouldn't notice or acknowledge it.

As for what you do, the basic premise is that you're Firewall agents, and you're working to stop X-Risks. X-Risks are "Existential Risks" that threaten the survival of the entirety of transhumanity.

This could involve stopping a small outbreak of the exsurgent virus in a lunar synthmorph village, or infiltrating a hypercorp and stopping them from developing a reactor capable of infinite energy (or, y'know, generate a black hole or a supernova), or stopping a terrorist group from deploying antimatter bombs in a major hab (thus potentially sparking a war that could wipe out transhumanity).

>>50018946
Probably by applying overwhelming force. Enough antimatter at fast enough speeds and even TITAN toys start to have troubles. Well and luck. Shittons of luck. Crippling a TITAN warmachine in such a way that it could have been captured and still left somewhat intact is nothing but luck.

It was probably and operation by some of the most crazy fuckers even by Jovian standards.

>>50024570
That still doesn't explain how the Jovians actually GOT to Mars in the first place to pull this bullshit off. And even if we just hand wave them violating the territory of one of the strongest factions in the game, letting off antimatter in atmosphere has happened exactly once and you still see the scar it left on Milwaukee from orbit, so AM munitions are out. As if anything strategic scale really, the TQZ is watched like a hawk by just about every group on Mars.
I just want to know what book this was published in, just to see how high I need to suspend my disbelief on this one

>>50024570
I think his issue is less 'how did they capture the TITAN warbot' and more 'how did they even get there without some BAD TIMES on the way from everyone with eyes pointed at this place'.

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>>50018946
The Jovians have pretty much the best military in the system. For all their faults and relative disabilities (no cortical stacks, none of the craziest upgrades, etc) they put a lot of effort and expenditure into the training of their soldiers and their equipment.

Even if we assume that they're only average splicers with only basic training, they'd probably have heavy armor, with at the very least basic exoskeletons, and smart-link assault rifles with homing reactive ammo, and then some bells and whistles like a gyromount, imaging scope, laser sight, and maybe even smart magazine+extended magazine (in which case they'd probably have AP/HP instead of Reactive ammo). And those'd just be grunts.

A specialized force of elite soldiers would probably be furies, crashers or olymbians, swooping in there in battlesuits, with railguns and beam weapons as necessary, and all the possible bells and whistles. Love 'em or hate them, there's really no reason the Jovians wouldn't be able to pull this off.

They're no Ultimates, but there's a whole lot more of them.

Going to be running an online game, you can read more about it in the Gamefinder thread.

>>50024709

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>>50024710
..stealth ships? I dunno. That's a pretty good point.

Space is pretty big, though. Even if you'd pick something up in near-orbit, it could probably be pretty fucking hard to police the entire sky.

My main concern wouldn't be about doing it without being noticed, but rather the timespans involved, travelling to and from Mars to Jupiter, and actually getting out of there afterwards. Once they make planetfall, they'd be noticed, and then they'd easily be followed back to their ship, and it'd be hard to avoid being tracked after that. It could probably have easily been tracked all the way to Mars. And that'd cause a major interplanetary incident that should've raise a bit more of a ruckus, beyond a small line of text or a paragraph in one of the books. Not that the Jovians would necessarily care.

Maybe they flew somewhere else, like Luna, and disappeared, taking another ship from there, back to Mars? That should be doable.

They could also just claim that "Oh, that ship? We know nothing about it. They paid their toll and slingshotted out of here, Rimward. Have you tried asking the Ultimates? Sounds like something they'd do. Over and out."

>>50024726
Jovians don't use synthmorphs, and they heavily restrict the higher end combat biomorphs like Furies to their best and brightest. A group which literally thinks of themselves as already dead thanks to how they view mind uploading technology.
And all that high tech gear you just mentioned is readily available to literally everyone else in the setting. Shit, criminal gangs can fab up that shit if they need to. I really don't understand where you're getting this idea that the Jovians are the only militarized polity out there. Sure DA is 'just' a private military company, but its a PMC in a post-cyberpunk world. For all intents and purposes DA is the equivalent of a state based military

>>50024710
You probably should ask another question - how the fuck did they get out of there after that? Because if I can somewhat suspend my disbelief for a Jovian "drop pod" catching a ride on some cargo ship and making a more or less stealthy drop because some AI had his bytes fucked by quantum mechanics but how did they get their trophy from Mars I can't even imagine.

>>50024792
Its not even the space travel, its the whole "breaking into the TQZ, stealing an active piece of TITAN tech and fucking off with it" angle. The TQZ is one of the most closely watched area in the entire solar system, how could a Jovian team break into it without people noticing? Even if you write it off as a team of Zone Stalkers, how did they manage to get an active piece of TITAN technology out, the entire reason the TQZ is so heavily interdicted is to stop people doing exactly that

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>>50024798
You do realize resource scarcity is still a thing right? You can't just fab up a HOPLITE suit and rail rifle anytime you want, that stuff takes resources, equipment, training, and time. The Jovian's actually do use synthmorphs, they just teleoperate them (cause it's really no different from the drones of today). Frankly, people really overestimate the advantage that morphs like furies give on the battlefield, equipment like battlesuits, armor and air support, and orbital bombardment is gonna have much greater effect than switching out your morph, and the Jovian's have that stuff in droves.

>>50024854
So does Direct Action, the LLA military, shit even Morningstar is arming up on the quiet. And yeah scarcity is still a thing but feed stock is feed stock and if you've got a fabber and the blueprints you really can fab up a HOPLITE if you've got the time for the components to be made up.
Again, I'm really not sure where you've got this idea that only the Jovians have military equipment in Eclipse Phase, a lot of the factions have quite substantial armouries from one source or another

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>>50024798
>Jovians don't use synthmorphs
They do, but that's really not relevant. I didn't mention any synthmorphs...?

>and they heavily restrict the higher end combat biomorphs like Furies to their best and brightest.
Exactly.

>A group which literally thinks of themselves as already dead thanks to how they view mind uploading technology.
Not sure of the relevance to what you're responding to here. I didn't say anything about mind-uploading technology.

>And all that high tech gear you just mentioned is readily available to literally everyone else in the setting. Shit, criminal gangs can fab up that shit if they need to.

Yes, but it's one thing that other factions can have this, and other factions actually having it. That being said, tons of factions have more or less limited access to these things, but the Jovians are one of the few to have a conventional military and they're said to put a lot of effort towards these kind of things. The average criminal gangbanger doesn't roll around with exowalkers, but I imagine that the average jovian recruit does.

>I really don't understand where you're getting this idea that the Jovians are the only militarized polity out there.

Literally nothing I said even hinted at that. Not sure if you're acting retarded, or just trying to bait.

>>50020605
>>50020637
>>50020649
Since you all seem to be interested in playing I'm going to direct your attention to the ad I posted.
>>50024755

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>>50022028
Written by shadowdragon, resident That Guy of the EP forums.

>>50023242
I'm going to post it until you like it.

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>>50024824
Most of that isn't an issue, really; at least certainly not more of an issue for the Jovians than for anyone else. The only issue as I see it is
>without people noticing

Honestly, I can't see a way it can be done without people noticing. A ton of people probably noticed.

My guess is going to be that they stealthed in with a ship, did an orbital drop straight in, guns blazing, dropped a pod down and got the fuck out of there, after which they boarded their ship, flew to Luna or some other place that's closer, scuttled their ship, boarded another, and flew back to Jupiter from there, anonymously. Even if they ended up being tracked after all, the Jovians would just deny that the concerned ship came to Jupiter, and just say that that ship slingshotted out of there, and they have no clue who they were - probably Anarchists or Ultimates or something. Rimward trash.

Only excuse I can think of.

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>>50024895
Basically what >>50024901 said, the equipment may be theoretically possible for just any faction to have given the resources, but that doesn't mean they have it, and right when a war breaks out is not the time to buy resources in bulk, wait for all your HOPLITE suits to be constructed, and then train in how to use them. It's the same for ships and space combat, sure you could fab up a ship if necessary, but that's gonna take a while and require a heck of a lot of resources. Nano-fabricators are really just multi-purpose factories, and we should think of them as such. You wouldn't say that the country that has no military at the onset of a war is gonna do better than the country that does, just because they have the factories to produce weapons.

>>50024930
What's so special about it? Sounds like an okay dumb bigot character that has a lot of space to grow or die. A lot.

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>>50024895
None of them really seem to compare to the Jovians. There's a line in the books stating that the Jovians have it the easiest in terms of resources, because they can just mine the belts and/or pull stuff from Jupiter itself.

> if you've got a fabber and the blueprints you really can fab up a HOPLITE if you've got the time for the components to be made up.
Yeah, fabber, blueprints, time and resources. That's a pretty tall order for many. There's a reason not everyone runs around with battlesuits and things have different prices. The Jovians are at the technological forefront, with a large-ass industrial complex and a ton of resources. Most simply can't pull that off, or is unwilling to do so, for one reason or another (for example the LLA and Planetary Consortium aren't as... direct.. in their requests from the military-industrial complex).

>a lot of the factions have quite substantial armouries from one source or another
Nobody denies that. Most factions don't have a massive organized, well-equipped and well-trained, motivated military, though. There's a lot of shit that can be discussed about the Jovians. The fact that they dominate militarily isn't really one of them.

>>50025014
Erm, what line? All I can find is that Jupiter itself is a bitch to collect gas from due to gravity and radiation and that the surrounding mining spots are mostly lacking in metals.

>>50025010
The neotenic futa incest. Really, all of the sexual questions. The guy wrote his own questionnaire ffs.

>>50017686
Not everyone is cut out for the life of a monk anon. It's rewarding, but also extremely difficult and generally deprives you of a lot of material pleasures.

Also, you might want to be the real ideal, an Exhuman.

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Could Warframe's setting work with Eclipse Phase rules?

>>50026183
Okay. Perverted dumb bigot. Didn't get farther than his views on factions on the first try.

Overall looks like a nice character to get a dose of hard reality through thermorectal analyse. He wants interventionism vs PC, Jovians, LLA and Ultimates. Maybe even at once.

>>50026308
Maybe if you just want to play a Grineer.

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>>50026969
>not wanting to just play a Grineer
>not wanting to serve the queens

ISHYGDDT

>>50026308
I admit I've thought of this. It would do good as a simuspace game, that way you can adjust the rules any way you want. Controlling a warframe would be like jamming.

There's actually a game called Remnants that has a good system for something like this that allows you to get past Warframe aptitudes.

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There's no artificial gravity in Eclipse Phase, but with so much antimatter available, and being ahead of pretty much everyone else technologically, how long will it take for the Jovian Republic to develop it?

Them practically monopolizing the diplomatic interactions with the Factors probably contributes a lot to the development of FTL travel, as well. We already know they have the best antimatter reactors/engines, and they probably rig that to all their major ships.

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What the fuck does an EVA Sled look like? I'm from Canada, this is my only point of reference.

>>50028006
Now put rockets and appropriate rocket controls on it. Donezo.

>>50027983
In most cases artificial gravity means FTL.

Also - antimatter in no way connected to artificial gravity or FTL.

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>>50027983
>Them practically monopolizing the diplomatic interactions with the Factors probably contributes a lot to the development of FTL travel
By them I assume you mean the Jovians? Cause the only thing I remember is that they're trying to convert them to be Christians, which they humor but couldn't care less about.

The most dimplomatic action is probably with the PC, and that's assuming the Factors are willing to share their technologies and not see us as rivals to their civilization to be wiped out.

Pic unrelated.

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>>50028006
>>50028024

>>50028024
is it really just some flat board with vectored movement? I mean that would probably be effective at minimizing space, but still...

>>50028083
This don't look like EP official art. Where'd you get it from?

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>>50028067
Well from the wiki:
>"The Factors made a number of veiled warnings and expressed concern over certain technological developments, particularly unrestrained artificial intelligence. They have refused entirely to deal with digital entities and broken off negotiations with anyone currently engaged in AGI development. They have also issued stern warnings against use of the Pandora gates"
Sure, they might deal with the other factions as well, but that does indicate that they probably favor the Jovian's.

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>>50027983
Yeah, right. Space banana?

>>50028122
Anime/manga called Planetes about space garbagemen. Neat stuff for near-future sci-fi references.

>>50028139
Ah, so they favor the Jovians because they're easily manipulated and not advancing.

>>50028139
That assumes they're actually trying to help us, an open end in the plot. There's also the theory that they're warning us away from AGI development to make sure we are weaker and easier to conquer. So weather or not the jovians and factors are bed buddies is all bassed on how the GM wants to play it.

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>>50028206
1) They are advancing, just in technology other than nanobots and AI
2) They are one of the hardest groups in the setting to infiltrate and manipulate, while the Jovian's are stated to be extensively infiltrating Firewall.

How populay would you say this song would be post fall?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1mWvRjzgiY

>>50028253
Jovians are Christcucked, 85 IQ, "Latin" neocons. The only thing they're advancing is the degree to which their heads are up their asses.

>>50028328
^Shot's fired!^

>>50028328
Still better than AGIs. They're all evil monsters who have to be deleted before they inevitably destroy transhumanity.

>>50028362
They are transhumanity.

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>>50028328

>>50027416
I mean more that Eclipse Phase is not particularly well suited to the Tenno and their bullshit. You could fake some of the stuff, I guess, but I'm fairly certain that you couldn't make it work for someone spinning to win with Scindo Prime and tanking twenty Grineer unloading dakka at them as they do it.

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>>50028362

>>50018946
Don't put much stock in anything said in /epg/ about the Jovians that doesn't come with a citation of book, page, and paragraph. (or anyone else) It's that bad.

That said, it's the "War Machines" paragraph on page 130 of Firewall, because I'm not a shitter.

They didn't sneak it, it was a pretty serious diplomatic incident, but the Consortium wasn't going to do anything too big over the theft of killer machines.

>>50024792
>Stealth in space
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>50027983
Shit like this is why you need the quotes.

>>50028067
The Jovians have had a single face to face meeting with the Factor ship Hammerhead, but since then have only communicated via radio. The vatican has also sent missionaries, but the Factors don't seem to care much. X-Risks paragraph "Jovian Relations", page 59.

>>50028139
Check out X-risks, it has a lot more info on the Factors, and I don't think the wikis have updated to include it. The inner system does the bulk of Factor trading, and it's a fairly even split between the PC, MC, and individual companies. (Still X-risks page 59)

>>50028253
This post needs those citations as well.

>>50028375
It would be better with a more simple and less detailed system than EP. That or just do it in simuspace where you make up the rules.

>>50028253
Christ, do you EVER shut up?

>>50028373
No, they're programs. Evil ones at that.
>>50028380
The truth is not bait.

>>50026365
The player thinks those things unironically, though.

>>50028402
You are a program.

>>50028411
No. I was born, therefore I'm not a program. Duh.

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>>50028402
They're just modified alpha forks and you know it.

>>50028362
>caring about transhumanity
If you aren't greeting your Sylpho-Aryan/2D comrades with a Roman salute from your "brinker" Führerbunker then you don't deserve to live.

>>50028422
How are you sure those memories weren't just planted there.

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>>50028422

>>50028424
Wouldn't "The Creation of Bait" be a better filename?
>>50028428
Whatever drugs you are on, give me some.
>>50028436
>>50028454
...
.......
Nuts.

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>>50028393
Do YOU? All I hear from you all day is how much the Jovian's suck, which I hear enough from the authors. If you don't like it then you can leave the thread alone.

>>50028508
Or ignore you. Always an options, but people rarely go with it.