What sort of charactet archetypes or concepts can be related

>>49990817
pussy-ass nobles.

A dashing rogue. A gentleman. The man with the mask.

Or just a professional duelist. Rapiers are probably the best sword you could choose for a proper sword duel.

>>49990817
Prat.

Is there a situation where the rapier is a good to optimal choice?
Even fucking katanas have their niche. They make a reasonable amount of sense in things like cyberpunk. But rapiers? I just don't see when you'd pick one over other swords.

>>49991427
because they're about a foot longer than every other sword.

>>49991427
They're civilian side arms and were quite effective in self defence and duels.

Vapid cunt.
Same with any sword-mainer.

>>49990817
Pirates, Mysterious masked men, Musketeers, Nobles of most kinds.

>>49991427
It's a long thrusting blade designed to protect the user's hand. You don't see a use for one? Here's a hint: Katanas are Slicey. Rapiers are Stabby. A Katana will be deflected off any sufficiently advanced armor's main plates, and the tip of a katana is wide and blunt, bad for impaling. A rapier can be thrust into the gaps of armor, and also has the core strength to knock aside slashes and chops, while protecting the fingers of the wielder, unlike the pitiful guard of a katana.

>>49991510
Also, to note, most rapiers can still cut. They're not fencing epees like they tend to be depicted.

>>49991427
Rapiers were extremely popular historically. I think you need to do a little research before claiming that all other swords are more useful.

>>49991552
Very true. The Rapier is a very solidly designed weapon with a long history of use for duels.

>>49990817
Most European noble-types. In most fiction the rapier is the European analogue to the katana in that it's the weapon that the super-duper skilled use to deflect bullets and do other unrealistic shit.

For the single rapier, or rapier & poniard, they are imperfect & insufficient weapons: and especially in service of the prince, when men shall join together, what service can soldier do with a rapier, a childish toy wherewith a man can do nothing but thrust, nor that neither, by reason of the length, and in every moving when blows are a dealing, for lack of a hilt is in danger to have his hand or arm cut off, or his head cloven. And for wards and grips, they have none, neither can any of these fine rapier men, for lack of use, tell how to strike a sound blow.

The short sword, and sword and dagger, are perfect good weapons, and especially in service of the prince. What a brave weapon is a short sharp light sword, to carry, to draw, to be nimble withal, to strike, to cut, to thrust both strong and quick. And what a good defence is a strong single hilt, when men are clustering and hurling together, especially where variety of weapons are, in their motions to defend the hand, head, face, and bodies, from blows, that shall be given sometimes with swords, sometimes with two handed swords, battle axes, halberds, or black bills, and sometimes men shall be so near together, they shall have no space, scarce to use the blades of their swords below their waist, then their hilts (their hands being aloft) defend from the blows their hands, arms, heads, faces and bodies. Then they lay on, having the use of blows and grips, by force of their arms with their hilts, strong blows, at the head, face, arms, bodies, and shoulders, and many times hurling together, scope is given to turn down their points, with violent thrusts at the faces and bodies, by reason of the shortness of their blades, to the mighty annoyance, discomfort, and great destruction of their enemies. One valiant man with a sword in his hand, will do better service, than ten Italians, or Italianated with their rapiers.

>>49991510
>and the tip of a katana is wide and blunt
No they aren't, katana thrust just fine.

>>49991552
>lso, to note, most rapiers can still cut
Whether or not a rapier can effectively cut comes down to length. The longer a rapier, the slower the cut, the less optimal it is to cut. Even shorter rapiers can't perform very deep cuts, and cutting was more used to frustrate and tire an opponent than used to perform a killing blow.

>>49991850
That sounds like George Silver, the professional contrarian.

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Rogues

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I feel like there is a big miconceptiom about rapiers and those diddly little stabbing sticks called foils that are used for modern day fencing.

A rapier is still plenty sword, it's just thinner. The smaller surface area makes it more effective at thrusting but you can still whack your opponent upside the head if you really had to.

It's not the sword you want to take into a crowded, busy melee, but it's length and light weight make it an ideal for any 1v1 situation.

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>>49991374
>Rapiers are probably the best sword you could choose for a proper sword duel.

>>49992235
He's right though, particularly since it allows you to fill your off hand with a companion weapon. It has the length of a two handed sword, used with one hand, ad allows you to carry a secondary weapon like a dagger or even a pistol.

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Rapiers are literally the superior swords. They are fast, light, and very maneuverable. I am not particularly strong myself but I have beaten at fencing multiple men who weighted over 200 pounds of pure muscle. Rapiers can kill fucking anything, and it's a simple flick to slash your throat. I think in D&D they should deal 1d8 damage and have a 15-20 critical range BY DEFAULT. And on a crit you immediately start losing 5 hp per round until you die. No save, only magical healing can stop your cut throat from bleeding.

Also, if you dual-wield rapiers, they are extremely effective, because no opponent can dodge two swords at once. Sure it works in D&D cause D&D is an unrealistic fuckshit of a system. But in real life, it would be more like GURPS, where you can only dodge once. Basically in D&D dual-wielding should give you two attacks but your opponent's AC is automatically 10 against the second attack. REGARDLESS of armor because a rapier can easily be slid through a slit in the armor to kill the opponent.

>>49992363
Rapiers are literally just swords optimized for unarmored duels.

They aren't any better than any other sword outside of a specific context.

>>49991959
>didn't like rapiers
>therefore was obviously opposed to everything popular

Hot logic there, Giuseppe.

>>49992413
George Silver had a good understanding of the body and measure and all that jazz, but his bias against rapiers was pure anti-continental prejudice more than a fully reasoned opinion.

>>49991335
Word my serf nigga.

>>49992363
You forgot to tell us about how the Allies during WW2 would shoot the Italians with Rapiers first, intimidated by their stabbing prowess.

Rogues, Swashbucklers, Nobles, Duelists, Vigilante, High-Ranking Military Officer. Really anything other than plate-wearing tank-men.

>>49990817
>What sort of charactet archetypes or concepts can be related with archetypical rogue weapon?
Dunno, OP

>>49990817
No reason to use a rapier over an estoc

>>49991427
Why are katana more reasonable in cyberpunk than other swords?

>>49993101
desu, because cyberpunk was heavily influenced by the growing prominence of Asian culture and economic power in the 80s/90s. It's more about aesthetic and setting than practicality.

>>49990817
It depends on your tech and culture level. If you're roughly into the 1600's equivalent, than tons of people would be using them. Duelists, soldiers, body guards, nobles, veterans....

>>49991427
>Is there a situation where the rapier is a good to optimal choice?

Yes, any situation where you and your opponent are unarmored.

>Even fucking katanas have their niche
Yes, getting wrecked horribly by Euros with rapiers to the point that first, Euros were banned from carrying swords in Japan, followed by the banning of namban (foreign) swords, because the samurai were importing rapiers and still killing eachother too fast.

>They make a reasonable amount of sense in things like cyberpunk. But rapiers? I just don't see when you'd pick one over other swords.

Actually, smallswords and rapiers make MORE sense in a cyberpunk setting as they are more maneuverable and compact in dense city settings. They are also popular in Dune and Starwars used to have "lightfoils" which were lightsaber knockoffs used by non force sensitives.

>>49991552
>>49991673
>>49992210
The heavy rapier was a war sword.

>>49992467
Yeah, Silver simply didn't like continentals and felt that anything less than an English backsword was for pussies based on that metric.

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>>49993088
>Cutting

>>49993101
>>49993126
We're supposed to be owned mostly by Japanese corps by now. GIBSON LIED TO US!

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>>49993190
Why would you need to cut?If you can name one single situation that cutting would be useful in, I'll admit I'm wrong.

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>>49993216
Any situation where your point is past engagement.

We close, and are past point engagement with me using a rapier, and you using a estoc. We are at contact, without room to generate impact. I have a sharp blade and a draw or push cut, you have nothing.

There is a reason the rapier continued as a weapon, and the estoc phased out, anon.

>>49993312
Just fuckin smack them with it then, blunt is better than cutting anyway

>>49993334
>blunt is better than cutting anyway
No it isn't.

For one, broken bones are a lot easier to treat than severed muscles and open wounds. Even more so in a Medieval-Early Modern setting.

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>>49993334
It would require you to disengage enough to generate impact, which I would not need and would put you at an immediate disadvantage.

You obviously don't fence. The estoc is a specialty weapon that phased out, compared to a more versatile weapon that continued for a reason.

>>49993388
The amount he would have to disengage from contact to generate enough blunt impact to hurt or even throw me off, would be negated by the fact that a cut is just pulling or pushing the blade, which even a superficial cut would cause disruption.

The only viable option would be to disengage in a retreat into a viable defensive threat, and hope to out pace a cut or reposet.

>>49992235

Couldn't you just...Stab the other guy and kill him quickly?

>>49990817
Cary Elwes.

>>49991427
I'd would fairly comfortable saying that in single combat against any other sword, a rapierist should win almost every time. Rapiers and their decendants, smallswords, essentially make up the tail end of sword design, followed only by the cavalry sabre, which eventually ended up morphing back into what is essentially a smallsword/rapier again.

Reach/penetration is THE real-life meta for combat. Spears, pike blocks, rapiers, muskets,cartridge weapons, modern small arms, artillery, aircraft, ICBMS/Drones. Killing technology always favors being as far away as possible and using the simplest trajectory you can.

>>49991950
>The longer the rapier, the slower the cut
Armchair fighter detected. Its called a push/pull cut and it's exactly as fast as a thrust, because it essentially IS one. In fact, the longer the blade, the easier it is to do this. You're thinking of a chop or slashing like movement, which is possible, but not nearly as useful with a rapier.

When people say a rapier can cut, they don't normally mean with a swing so much as with a push.

>>49992235
He's completely right though, rapiers were specifically designed to defeat people fighting with two-handed (long) swords at their conception.

>>49995075
>Its called a push/pull cut
Every experiment I've seen in push/pull cuts have shown negligible results. It's a technique defeated by the material of a not even particularly thick shirt.

>>49992235
>posts Guts

Serpico used a rapier and could threaten him, he was one of the few human opponents whom he had to take seriously.

>>49995097
>Slashing is better against material than a pull/push cut
>Whacking something cut resistant with a blade is more effective than quite literally the same motion used by every implement used to cut such materials (shears, scissors, FUCKING GUILLOTINES)
I'm genuinely curious what experiments you've seen this in.

>>49993334
While you make a large movement to try and swing at your target with enough force to try and break a collar bone or rib at BEST, all they have to do is apply a pound of pressure against your flesh with their wrist and step backwards (or forwards) and your jugular opens up.

>>49990817
Depends. Who invented the rapier in your setting and when, OP?

In my setting the rapier has been around in some way or another for a while, starting as a take on the shortspear in the "bronze age" and developing alongside the Gladius with the not-romans.

>>49995119
>Slashing is better against material than a pull/push cut
I don't think you know what a 'pull cut' actually is, or much about the general terminology in 'HEMA' and their application.

>>49995145
>ll they have to do is apply a pound of pressure against your flesh with their wrist and step backwards (or forwards) and your jugular opens up.
You really don't know what you're talking about if you're the 'pull cut' guy.

All you really need to know is that Rapiers became popular in the early modern period after the end of the middle ages when other forms of sword became less popular.

They are more or less the peak of western sword design, and the ideal sidearm for somebody who uses a pike or musket as their primary weapon.

>>49995339
What the fuck is this guard, whore-prima?

>>49992235
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qJBGlChcXU

I'll trust Matt Easton on this one.

>>49994972
underrated post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4O6uJJL0oo

According to this video, a fight between a Duelist with a Rapier and a Samurai with a Katana ends with both people dead.

The Rapier guy stabs the Katana guy, who then chops the Rapier guy's head off, before bleeding to death from his punctured lung.

>>49995530
UNLESSS the rapier guy has a parrying dagger, in which case he blocks the Katana slash and then stabs the katana guy in the shoulder, forcing him to drop his sword.

>>49995530
I guess that sort of makes sense, but aren't most rapier thrusts also made in defensive positions? Isn't that like... the whole point?

>>49990817
Fighter planes

>>49992256
> Not using a sword and a shield instead of an off-hand weapon

Pistol is a solid fucking choice though.

But two weapon fighting is a gimmick.

>>49992755
> Intimidated by Italians

It's greentext, not a bad trip on acid.

>>49996031
I thought it was a poor callback to the old Katana copy-pasta.

>>49995383
Based Matt. Are there any other good channels like his? Please don't recommend plebshit like Lindybeige or Skallagrim.

>>49995117
Because Serpico wasn't a retard and would use the environment against Guts, which almost no other fighter that Guts faced ever bothered to try.
In an open field Serpico knew he'd be six different kinds of fucked against Guts, which is why all of the duels they had are in places where Guts couldn't bring his blade to full blow, and they both knew it.

Still expecting Serpico to be the token "oh shit" death when Kentaro Miura is ready to get depressing again

>>49996025
Not in rapier.Main gauche seems to be waaaaay more popular than buckler in my experience.

>>49996271
Knyght Errant is a good source on armor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUMfjHANRVw

>>49996271
>>49996367
Was just about to post this.

Why is Lindy so cringy? I mean, Skall is cringy but he at least is willing to admit he's just into sword stuff because it's fun. Lindy seems like, "please don't touch me you don't have a degree and my sweater is much soggier than it looks" cringy.

>>49996379
>Why is Lindy so cringy?
Because Lloyd is incredibly overconfident and condescending about topics he knows little or nothing about. Once you see past the British accent he's a fool.

>>49996379
I think it has a lot to do with how Lindy comes off as the end all be all final say on things, which I doubt it's his intentions but it's just how he presents himself.
That and many of his claims are unsourced and are just from him eyeballing it, which ruins a lot of his credibility.

He can be at least a little entertaining but his videos on /tg/ stuff make me cringe more than anything.

>>49993101
cleaver with futuristic materials

>>49996379
I've got a friend who praises him to high heaven, and more than once we've gotten into long-winded arguments over shit (Spears used in 1v1, heavy horse, ect) that would have ended way earlier if Lindildo wasn't such a vapid shitter. Dude's a half-aware meth-fiend from the way he talks.

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>>49993388
>>49995145
>>49993428
Have fun with your piddly cuts not going through any sort of armor at all while I simply hit your little sewing needle out of the way and then impale you

>>49991335
I had this in mind with my lesser noble character, I figured 'hey he's a noble so a cavalry role would be good, going to need a lance too, and so he became a cavalier. Eventually I found the limits of a mounted character and having to juggle weapons, so I switched to a greatsword that I also use as a lance.

>>49996271
If you like sword and (old) shield there's Roland Warzecha
https://www.youtube.com/user/warzechas

Maxime Chouinard for Irish and Asian stuff
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpvAbUiYd6XX4hSAm4DFtIg

Dave Rawlings for pretty much every still in Europe, Tattoos and moustache
https://www.youtube.com/user/LondonLongsword

And Martin Fabian's italian rapier series if you want to actually know how to use a rapier according to a crazy odd italian exiled in scandinavia.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4bdKIpRnFJUb0ZEfXn1xZQyodMRp5Q1S

>>49995048
>THE real-life meta for combat

That sentence is fucking terrible but also accurate.

10/10 we should both kill ourselves.

>>49995048
>I'd would fairly comfortable saying that in single combat against any other sword, a rapierist should win almost every time

You won't feel comfortable after the ghost of George Silver haunts you for that belief.

>>49996031
>It's greentext, not a bad trip on acid.

Good call

>>49995660
Literally all of swordfighting is defensive. Swords are a very defensive weapon in general.

>>49996942
Have fun walking around in armour like a crazed fool while I may gallivant around the city in the proper attire of an honest gentleman.

>>49995075
>>49995097
>>49995119
>>49995225
>>49995245
>Pull cut
I have no idea why this triggers me so much, but it does. In all my years of historic fencing and in all my books, its always been refered to as a "draw cut".

>>49995352
Lost: one pair of sides. Reward if found.

>>49996031
You're letting modern opinion taint history. Like the French, the Italians used to be badass.

>>49994972
>yfw Thibault doesn't really cancel Capo Ferro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCg0pqX-y3s

>>49997092
>Literally all of swordfighting is defensive.
Nope, sometimes a good attack is a good defense... or crazy enough to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVSONNESfyE

>>49997234
Jap swordfighting doesn't count. They have some aversion to parrying.

>>49997194
>>>49996031
>You're letting modern opinion taint history. Like the French, the Italians used to be badass.

Not in WW2.

>>49997308
Oh so it's going from "all of swordfighting" to "all of it but all of the japanese's" now? As if "japanese swordfighting" was one clear thing for starters.

>They have some aversion to parrying.
Nonsense once more, here's just one of the many classical styles, skip at 2:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2A3HvOgvdQ
there's three parries shown here (thrust, straight cut, reverse cut).

>>49997467
The problem with what we know about Japanese swordfighting is that most of the remaining traditions are heavily ritualised. Considering that samurai haven't really been a thing since Shiroyama, most of what we see seems to be their practice stuff. Do we have any sources for what their actual fight to the death system was like?

>>49997456
>You're letting modern opinion taint history.
>cites WW2 to disprove
thanks for proving the point.

>>49997456
WWII is modern. Rapier usage is not.

>>49997596
>WWII is modern. Rapier usage is not.

God you're right, I'm an idiot, I have no idea where I got that from

>You forgot to tell us about how the Allies during WW2 would shoot the Italians with Rapiers first, intimidated by their stabbing prowess.

Oh wait, that's where I got it from. You're the idiot, not me. What a relief.

>>49991374
>Or just a professional duelist.
That would completely depend on the rules of duel in the setting. A rapier in a 14th century judicial duel would have been suicide.

>>49995048
>Rapiers and their decendants, smallswords, essentially make up the tail end of sword design
That's wrong you turd. Sword design (design in general really) reacts to the context, it's not a straight progression from best to worst. Rapiers and smallswords were a reaction to armour fading away and swords being mostly used in a civilian environment.
I'll take a greatsword over a rapier in a duel everyday.

>>49995530
Yeah, no. Anybody who's fought any rapier vs. saber (cavalry sabers were about the same length as katanas, but used one-handed which gives added reach) knows that's crap. Katana guy won't get in range, rapier guy can stab and withdraw, then stab again and withdraw, and so on until bleeding and lack of lung wears down katana guy. Really the only credible way it ends with both dead is if katana guy deliberately suicide attacks (which I guess isn't implausible for a samurai, but still).

In many cases that might not help either, because a skilled rapier fencer can often use his sword to strike and close off the chopping line at the same time -- even moreso if the point's stuck in the opponent's body, making the blade a stable line of steel. Some manuals advocate actually running the opponent through up to the hilt once struck so that you're never within range of his sword until you can reach to grapple with him, an impaled enemy (maybe ending him with your dagger if you have one, or in the case of a samurai you could take away his wakizashi and cut his shit up with that).

>>49996271
Alte Herren is really good if you want to dive deep into rapier in particular.

>>49996415
>That and many of his claims are unsourced and are just from him eyeballing it, which ruins a lot of his credibility.
No joke. My favorite is his video where he meets some HEMA guys and derides a feder because he thinks it's supposed to have been a weapon, and scoffs at its likely effectiveness in combat.

The guy tells him straight that it's a historically accurate trainer, and he just blows right the fuck through it on the express train to smug country.

itt: Rapiers deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

>>49997492
Koryu weren't all for samurai though, besides, Japan kept their sword fighting techniques somehow practical up until WW2, there were still kenjutsu teachings for the officers updated up to 1944. Besides, there's not direct contradiction between ritualized teachings and practical efficiency.

>actual fight to the death system
What do you mean by that? Most of the deadly fightings, especially during the late 18th early 19th weren't organized combat or duels, there was no "systems".

>>49996365
>Main gauche seems to be waaaaay more popular than buckler in my experience.
Yeah, bucklers don't work well against rapiers in general.

>>50000693
>>49996365
Usually, bucklers are great to defend against cut-centric weapons while daggers are good to defend against thrust-centric swords. Hence why the typical combo is broadsword and buckler on one part and rapier and dagger on the other.

Obviously there are some exceptions like Silver or the Bolognese who also have cutting swords used with daggers for instance.

>>50001381
>Usually, bucklers are great to defend against cut-centric weapons while daggers are good to defend against thrust-centric swords.
Exactly. I will say I think a dagger's better to protect against a cutting sword than a buckler is against a thrust-focused one. Especially crab-claw style ones, they seem to catch cuts better IME.

>>49991452
What are greatswords for 200, Alex?

>>49997719
You seem mad.

>>49997971
This is painfully sad.

>>49990817
Thug or Mercenary. These things are excellent at killing. You see someone walking around with one, it's probably not to defend themselves.

>>49992385
They still work pretty well if the opponent isn't fully armored. The rapier can target specific body parts pretty efficiently.

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>>49997456
>Like the French, the Italians used to be badass.
Except France, disorganized France with a military doctrine that was 20 years behind the times, damn near reversed the odds during Italy's invasion in WW2 and the only reason they didn't tear Italy a new pasta hole is because Paris was occupied by the Jerries. Italy's high command even noted that during the invasion of France they were humiliated because they had made "not one step forward". And let's not even bring up Pont Saint Louis.

If any country truly deserves ridicule for their military achievements, it's Italy. They needed France to unify, they needed Prussia to obtain Venice (in 1866 the Austrians actually mopped the floor with the Italians, but were forced to give up Venice because the Prussians defeated Austria), in WW1 the Italians made horribley strategic mistakes because they based themselves on Roman tactics without looking at the context in which those tactics were applied and in WW2 they were a joke.

This isn't because the Italians were cowards as much as it is because Italy is the one place in Europe without a long-lasting military tradition (Condotierri cared more about earning money than fighting, and Napoleon once stated that his Napolitan soldiers were barely better than no soldiers at all) so it's understandable that they were behind countries that had perfected the art of war over the centuries. This doesn't mean the Italians are shit or dumb or weak or have no guts, but it does mean the Italian military truly was an underperforming joke. Even if it had its good moments here and there.

>>49997510
Then during what period were the Italians badass? I already explained why this applies to neither the Middle Ages/Renaissance, nor the Napoleonic eras (both of them), nor the World Wars.

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>>50001460
>What are greatswords
Polearms disguised as swords.

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>>50004468
Guns are just polearms that launch spearheads.

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>>50004516
It's true though. The manuals treat them just like pole weapons with larger striking surfaces.

>>49991427

> [Katanas] make a reasonable amount of sense in things like cyberpunk

Holy weeb

ITT: people deride weebs while fellating the rapier as much as weebs do the katana

>>49993167
>>49997925
>Yes, getting wrecked horribly by Euros with rapiers to the point that first, Euros were banned from carrying swords in Japan, followed by the banning of namban (foreign) swords, because the samurai were importing rapiers and still killing eachother too fast.
Does that really support the superiority of rapiers when the Portuguese were wrecking everybody and also taking into account that Japs had no exposure to western fencing and are manlets?

>captcha: knight negrin

>>50005172
>when the Portuguese were wrecking everybody
What. At what time in fencing history were the Portuguese wrecking everybody, let alone with (as you're implying here since the suggestion is the rapier isn't inherently superior) other swords against rapiers?

>>49991427
>Is there a situation where the rapier is a good to optimal choice?

Historically? It was a civilian weapon for when you weren't allowed to walk around in armor and carry heavy weapons like a typical /tg/ character murderhobo.

It'll *still* stab through anything legally or socially acceptable to wear today, too. It's just that we live in an era where cheap and easily concealable pistols are everywhere but blades are effectively illegal.

I could see those rules reversing again in a cyberpunk setting.

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>>49992256
>>49993630
>>49995085
>>49995383
>breaks against heavy armor
>breaks when trying to defend a real sword
no, it's just useless.

>>50006174
I'm not a swordtologist but I'm like 90% sure Griffith is using a saber and not a rapier.

>>50006174
>breaks
Confirmed for never having picked up a rapier.

>>50006174
1.) That is a saber
2.) No sword goes through plate. No, not even greatswords
3.) Rapiers are the same weight as your typical "arming" sword and have more hand protection.
4.) Real swords are pretty springy and don't really "break" like you're thinking

We get it, you like berserk. Everyone likes berserk.

>>50006198
Correct.

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>>50006198
i know it's not a rapied, but still it's the same shit

>>50006424
>No sword goes through plate. No, not even greatswords
kek. Pic related. You're just not using enough strength.

>Real swords are pretty springy and don't really "break" like you're thinking
Giant. Motherfucking. Sword.

>>50006424
Considering a battle with both parts using plate, a rapier will be useless and a greatsword will have a much better chance at causing internal damage

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>>50006791
Have your (you) and eat it.

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>>50006791
But that's not a sword. It's too [CLONKI], too [BONK] and too [CLANG] to be a sword.

>>50005840
Its very well recorded that throughout the 16thC, the Ports were assraping japs in street fights to the point that multiple laws against them and rapiers were made in Japan.

>>50007143
Yes of course, but jappos isn't the same as everybody, and you've written nothing to oppose the true idea that they were fucking them up precisely thanks to the superiority of the rapier as a weapon over the katana, rather than the superiority of the dago over the nip as fighters.

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(reposting from a /v/ thread about fictional swords in video games)

What would be the benefit of a single-edged sword with teeth on the back? Perhaps a higher block chance, by catching enemy weapons in the angles?
>nothing you fucking moron it's not realistic
I mean in the context of a video game.

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>>50007223
>What would be the benefit of a single-edged sword with teeth on the back?

>>49997925
This. The katanafags is basically a western cavalry saber that is inferior in almost every way.

>>50007223
In BB serrated weapons have a bonus to damage against beasts, which makes sense. If you cut a foot into a human with a long slash its really going to kill them just as good as cutting a person clean in half, but a big old monster might be less injured by that same depth of cut. Serrated weapons getting a bonus against big meaty stuff makes SOME sense.

>>50007476

I don't see how the serrated features would do anything other than get the weapon stuck in the target.

>>50004854
That looks like a sword strike and a parry. There are still schools that exist today that teach the old techniques. I've seen men explain sword tactics, not spear maneuvers.

>>50007223
A sword breaker or something.
Rapiers are cool yeah, the ultimate dueling sword, wish there was more information on the older brother the Estocs, they were even used in hunting and as a side arm when Knights broke lances, makes sense using them as mini lances while on horseback.

>>49997925

They were used with great success even in battlefield situations against all sorts of curved blades. However behind plate, polearms and shields they get wrecked.

The simple Sword and Shield combo ( in armor) is deadlier than people give it.

>>50009295
>A sword breaker
Do those even work?

>>49996942
Because the rapier can't go through the helmet's slit, shoulder guard's weak spot, or anything like that, right cutie pie?

>>50006174
Once again, Easton-Senpai can enlighten you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFRxZod-iI0

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>>49991427
Basically any situation in which people are not heavily armored, which is most combat after the 17th century.

Prior to that point rapiers weren't actually considered a nobleman's weapon at all, they were more associated with urban toughs, criminals and young duelists. Nobles fought in the old-school style using longswords, if they weren't using pollaxes or warhammers in full armor.

>>50007143
There's a statue of a Portuguese guy in Japan somewhere. Some Nips boarded his ship en masse and his crew killed like a gorillion of them before blowing the ship up. It sort of set the tone for Japanese-European conflicts ever since.

>>49993101
Because typical cyberpunk katana is basically lightsaber for better or worse.

>>50009615
>Because the rapier can't go through the helmet's slit, shoulder guard's weak spot, or anything like that, right cutie pie?
This is actually really difficult. If someone's wearing a full helmet with just eyeslits it's really damn hard to aim for it, hit, and nail him through the head. Same for wrangling a rapier blade into the weak points of any shoulder armor contemporary to rapiers; the angles are all fucked for such a long blade. Your best shot is to parry off with the rapier and then start working at close rnage with your main-gauche, which you have better control of. Even then it's hard.

Armor is its own whole affair, and rapiers definitely aren't optimized for fighting it. I don't know where that memético comes from.

>>50009362
Not to break swords. Its extremely difficult to break a sword, as the fuction of one requires flex. They did do a lovely trick of catching and entraping a blade when used as a parrying weapon.

According to Durro and Agripa though, they lost favour for the same reason as bucklers. Every man carries a dagger, and every gentleman carries a sword, but bucklers, sword breakers and the like are obvious displays of man looking to cause trouble or is expecting trouble, and thus stands out in polite company.

>>50011016
From the end of the open trading period, before they went into isolation.

>>50011003
s-sauce?

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>>50004187

>Then during what period were the Italians badass?

>>49996942
>Actually striking to kill an armored opponent with a full length sword.
Nah, someone would either want to trip you and stick a knife in your ribs through a gap in the plate or just bash yer fookin' ed in with a hammer.

>>50004187
>Then during what period were the Italians badass? I already explained why this applies to neither the Middle Ages/Renaissance
The Italians were INSANELY badass during the Renaissance. Not only did they start it, but they had the best artists, the craziest wars, they raised the old sword art to its pinnacle in the Bolognese School, then created and refined the new sword art of the rapier to such a pitch that Italian masters were sought after and imitated everywhere. Venice ruled half the Med, a Venetian/Papal-led Holy League crushed the Ottomans at Lepanto, in the humanities and sciences they rediscovered and disseminated the heritage of the older age of indisputable Italian badassery i.e. Classical Rome.

During the same period the French developed the shittiest menswear from the beginning of time until Rick Owens was born, and killed each other a lot. Wow.

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>>50015796
Berserk boi

Although your gonna not want the sause after the end

>>49990817
Pirate
Noble
Duelist
Gentleman
Royalty
Swashbuckler
Musketeer
Soldier
Thief

It never fails to make me laugh that one of the best sources for an English singlesword system is from a guy who wrote a treatise about how bad rapiers are and how much the Italians suck. And he wasn't even a professional himself, but a contemporary hobbyist. It's like if in the future the best treatise on 21st century war was a bunch of posts on /k/.

>>50004924
Well Cyberpunk is japanese in origin, so...