Do you think plasma weapons have a future in 40k as they are

Assault and split fire would be a good start. Cannons being Large Blast would make them usable. Gets Hot! should only happen when rapid firing.

>>49988140
>bolters
>something they're good at

Surely you jest anon. Bolters are good at nothing unless you have specialist ammo or are Raptors

But a couple things
>Make it you can replace basic models with the Specialist if the Specialist were to die.

>Imperium (and CSM) get a second profile S4 AP2 to their weapons

>Plasma Pistols, instead of counting as a CC weapon allow the user to make 1 additional attack in CC using the weapons shooting profile

>Nerf Gravweaponry to be Imperium's Anti-Monster. This will mean Flamers are for hordes, Melta for vehicles, Grav for monsters, Plasma being the Generalist.

>>49988291
I like that idea!

What if (just throwing out an alternative here) plasma guns were made more powerful, but the gets hot rule only applies if you fire it for two turns in a row, getting more dangerous each consecutive turn you fire it?

>>49988140

I know Plasma weapons on one Astra-Militarum Russ variant make it a pain.

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>>49988140
Grav Weapons shitty rules/pricing completely fucked whatever usefulness plasma had.

>>49988140
>What could they do to save plasma

Nerf Grav-weapons. Plasma guns are still pretty decent weapons. They can reliably wound Monstrous Creatures and kill heavy infantry, Rapid Fire means they're not totally wasted against light infantry, and St7 can have a go at vehicles. The problem is that Grav-guns do all of these things, better.

Nerf Grav and Plasma becomes more attractive by default.

>>49988291
All those together would be a bit too good. Pick one for the pistol, gun and cannon.

>>49988316
The post has nothing about bolters being good but ok:
>they free
>they don't kill the user
>they come with a Space Marine that adds more shots and wounds to the unit
>any basic cheap weapon in good numbers can kill Terminators

>>49988353
Thank you Captain Obvious.
>>49988355
>Nerf Grav and Plasma becomes more attractive by default.
Except for all the issues it has mentioned here that were not related to Grav (although grav being better doesn't help either) >>49988140

>Veteran with plasma and gren: 22.5 points
>chance he'll kill himself: 1/12
>chance he'll inflict a wound on any MEQ or lighter without invuln, paying for most of him: 5/9
>chance he'll inflict a wound on a TEQ and the invuln [5+, 4+, 3+] will go unsaved, instantly paying for all of him: 10/27, 5/18, 5/27

not to mention the chances double within 12".

Plasma guns aren't bad, everything else is just bullshit in comparison (grav)

>>49988520
because nothing in the OP is a real problem.

>>49988639
>A plasma gun in the team has a chance of killing the user,
...this is not an issue in your opinion ?

>>49988665

Quite a few weapons in 40k already do that.

>>49988665
It was a part of Plasma since the beginning, and it's been used as a reliable, powerful weapon for ages. It was the introduction of Grav that really kicked it, as well as the complete shift of the meta for more and more powerful units with greater firepower. See: >>49988560

It's genuinely gotten to a point where something that allows an infantryman to easily make back his own points is considered shit because he's not rapidly deleting bigger models or popping vehicles.

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>>49988316
Don't talk to me about bolters being useless you pampered mutant!

>>49989157
FRFSRF on Lasgun Guardsmen has killed more infantry in my LGS than Marines could ever hope to with Boltguns. That shit used to be scary before the Grav/Suitpocalypse, Anon.

>>49988140
Are you retarded OP?

Have you even played a game of 40k, like ever?

Bolters are SHIT. They are pretty much basic weapons and only good at killing Orks and Guardsmen. Against anything more durable than a fucking Firewarrior they're worthless, and against other space marines you might as well be firing blanks. Plasma is spammed to no end in 40k because Plasma GUARANTEES whatever it hits will die on the spot. Plasma is AP3, so it's an instant kill against units like space marines or with worse saves.

Gets Hot is also a fucking meme and you shouldn't believe the shit you read on 1d4chan. On average it'll probably only kill 10% of units that use plasma.

>>49988482
Are you LEGITIMATELY retarded? Bolters are awful weapons and the units using them are basically worthless. Tactical Marines are only worth their points if they have grav guns or plasma guns. Otherwise they're useless fodder whose only job is to sit on objectives and try not to die.

Seriously have you even played a single fucking game?

>Want to take a cool walker/monsters/elite unit without a really good invuln or FNP?
>Too bad! fucking every squad has at least 2-3 guns that wound you on a 2 and ignore your save entirely!

The fact evey cheap unit and every tank seems to have multiple plasma/grav/metla/unique guns that just rape you to death on two's and sometimes do extra shit on 6 rolls is fucking lame.

This is why fun isn't allowed and you'll never see a carnifex/deff dread ever.

>>49989235
Bolters aren't that bad if your meta isn't all marines all the time.
40k almost becomes fun then. For the marine player, that is.

>>49988331
Love me some escalating odds.

>>49989335
If your meta isn't marines, it's probably Eldar or Necrons then, and that's way worse and even harder to kill. Bolters are only useful against Orks, and mildly useful against Guard if they actually bother to bring Infantry and aren't just spamming tanks.

>>49989294

> deff dread

I see plenty.

Including whole armies where they're the bulk of the troops.

Plasma deletes terminators. Plasma can delete TWO terminators. Plasma vets in a chimera can delete a whole unit of terminators.

Yes, one plasma gun by itself isn't so good because of target priority, but that's like saying autocannons aren't good because most of the lasguns in an autocannon squad aren't doing much.

>>49989194
Plasma is AP2. It kills everything.

>>49989535
Do people run Terminators?

>>49989720
People don't run terminators because plasma and grav take them off the table for a fraction of the price. You can still destroy centurions and light vehicles with them, and a unit of plasma vanguards can blow up a Riptide in one round of shooting.

The only problem that plasma has at all is that grav guns is just too fucking good.

>>49989535
>Plasma is AP2. It kills everything.
Goddammit, for some reason I always think it's AP3 because I primarily use it to turn other people's space marines into goo.

>>49988140

Given that Orks will already kill each other regardless of what weapons they're using, are orkish plasma users a good idea?

>>49989936

I think they already have two versions of Plasma.

The Kustom Mega weapons and the Shock Attack weapons.

>>49989235
>Are you LEGITIMATELY retarded?
I do have a certificate for it, yes.

>>49988140
>A plasma gun in the team has a chance of killing the user, wasting the points you paid for him and for the gun as no one else can pick it up for some reason
>for some reason
Isn't that because it blows up killing the user.

Plasma has a place in my war convocation.

Also, Fuck the space marines Adeptus Mechanicus forever.

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>>49989936
In my experience: no. There are three reasons for this.

One: Gets Hot! allows armour saves. Most Orks using Kustom Mega weapons will have an armour save of 6+. This means, if you roll that 1, you almost certainly will be losing a wound. Space Marines have a much easier time because of 3+ armour, and even Guardsmen have double the chance to survive as an Ork.

Two: Orks have BS2. Kustom Mega weapons have a small number of shots so you'll most likely be missing anyway. The best Orky shooting involves high number of shots which for plasma gets expensive and inefficient (especially with Gets Hot!).

Three: There are Rokkit Launchas. Only 1 AP less for no Gets Hot!. Also available as upgrades for models cheaper than Meks (which are usually the only Orks that can get plasma). AP2 is better left for Power Klaws.

>>49990955

>which are usually the only Orks that can get plasma

Does that discount their walkers, tanks and artillery?

>>49988331
Then you have to keep track of which guns fired in which squads.

>>49988140
Some of that scenario you suggest is surely down to poor planning on your part or excellent planning on your opponent's part. Anything up to T7 is still hurtable by bolters, so if you're throwing your single-shot plasma gun at it at range, you're wasting those shots anyway. The whole squad is going to cause maybe 1 wound, with .5 coming from ol' boily. At shorter ranges you're better off with 1.5 wounds - can't assault but at least you'd get some overwatch shots in too.

Basically there's only so far you can get with this "plasma guns are too dangerous with their 1 in 6 chance of exploding" idea before you're nodding sagely and stroking your beard and saying "there are too many monstrous creatures and boltguns really should be strength 8 and rending". It's a dark path trod by fools.

As to the other way of looking at it - why take plasma at all in a lower-power weapon loadout - the answer is simple: because it gives you that almost certain casualty (two almost certain casualties at shorter ranges) in a way that meltaguns can't provide and flamers can't be certain of. Again, in a squad with bolters or lasguns a plasma gun doesn't hurt your charge none anyway, so you're blasting away looking for high-density targets to take a shit on. Or light vehicles.

I mean, if you're complaining about heavy plasma not having the right punch, why not bitch about multimeltas not being area weapons any more? It's only been like 20 years but hey, bug out and go apeshit about it.

>>49989358
Would you like a shoulder to cry on, it sounds like your local meta is ass.

>>49991340
>Would you like a shoulder to cry on, it sounds like your local meta is ass.
My local meta isn't exactly WAAC, but everything is an uphill battle. Victory doesn't come easy at all unless I went full douchebag and allied mechanicum in with my Dark Angels or Iron Hands.

>>49991012
Well, I did say "usually". Vehicles pretty much negate Gets Hot! and artillery/kans (grots) get +1 BS, alleviating the accuracy problem, but the core problems persist. I will quickly run through them though.

Dreads/Kans: Unless you know that you'll be going against a lot of 2+ armour, Rokkit Launchas keep the cost cheaper and are a bit safer. Slighty poorer choice due to AP2 close combat weapons.

Morkanaughts: On paper, a decent source of surprisingly reliable plasma. Cost is very high for what it does though.

Mek Guns: Probably the best bet out of everything. Blast plasma is good with the weak BS3 and the grot crew is cheap and expendable. 30 points a pop is really good. Honestly kind of forgot about them. Might try them out to see how they play.

>>49992477
>Vehicles pretty much negate Gets Hot

Holy Throne, did they finally undo that? Last I heard, Vehicles still rolled on Gets Hot!...

>>49989808
I played for years and years thinking plasma was AP3 for some reason. Even today I still remember it that way. I'll probably die when im old with AP3 Plasma Guns still in my head and I don't know why.

>>49988742
You can pop a Rhino who's currently 6 points more than a basic Marine with the plasmagun or kill yourself trying to do it.

>>49989194
I love that AP2, so useful when everything is sitting in cover or jinking. Who the hell do you play against, mob marines standing in the open ?

>>49992608
They still do. You have a 50/50 chance to ignore it on a separate roll after that.

>>49989194
>acts like he knows what he's talking about
>lists plasma as AP 3

Uh huh, sure thing buddy

>>49995439
When you don't fight Terminators for two years, you'll forget plasma is AP3 too.

>>49992477
Also Mekguns can reroll Gets hot with Ammo runt.

>>49988140
Change the meta to favor standard unis again.

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>>49988140
I don't think this genius needs translation

>>49990955
What do you think about using it in HoR killteam? Orks there can get gitfinda (5pts, if you don't move you get +1 BS), Meks can get Moar Dakka upgrade (10 pts, skip shooting and every friendly unit can reroll 1's on shooting) and actually there is a way to get `eavy armour for mekboyz (4pts, 4+).

>>49989358
the meta isnt marines
>what is gladius strike force
sure, eldar rule but space marines and necrons are equally top tier.

>>49996957

>standard unis

Which are?

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>>49992477

I think as far as Forge World goes, a few of their Trakks, Wagons and the Kustom Stompa have access to the Big Zappa, which is:

> 48", STR 2D6, AP2, Heavy 3.

The Gaze of Mork used to be that, but they nerfed it into a D-Weapon that is functionally lack luster.