Eclipse Phase General - /epg/

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Old thread:
>>49963874
>>49963874
>>49963874
>>49963874
>>49963874

So, what are the major surviving Orthodox/Catholic sects active within church and jovian politics, besides the obvious ones like the Jesuits, Opus Dei and MormonCorp?

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>>49987313
Ultimates are everything the Jovians want to be. I bet Contreras masturbates to a poster of Manu she has hanging in her private quarters.

>>49987313

Somebody get me some "hide jovian threads/Ignore jovian posters" up in here, I've never needed it more.

>>49987358
There's pretty much no mention of them. I want Copts IN SPACE.

>>49987358
Eastern Orthodoxy? There are a significant number of Russians in the Junta aren't there?

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>>49987426
>the Junta
Seriously, just stop posting in this thread if you're going to start this shit again.


>>49987402
I'm missing this one. Have the Spurdo rant instead.

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>>49987203
I love how you say "logical", as if you can understand the long-term planning of unfathomably powerful supercomputers with an awareness of the world, physics, and worldly forces (including the motivations of biologicals) so massively outclassing yours they're practically godlike.

Preparing for their comeback isn't irrational, because no matter how intelligent the TITANs are, they are still playing by the same rules, and can be defeated.

You say that it's a fact that if they had wanted to destroy humanity, they'd already done so. That's ridiculous. You have no more knowledge of their motivations than anyone else does.

It's entirely possible that they left to defend humanity, knowing about an approaching threat. It's entirely possible that they knew that they would lose long-term unless they fled from humanity. It's entirely possible that an ETI called upon it to deliver data it collected, in order to further some completely alien plan, but that it will, due to personal motivations, come back. It's entirely possible that it's simply corrupted, and that it's behaviour is entirely due to the exsurgent virus, and that it isolated itself when it realized this. It's entirely possible that it in fact hates all of humanity simply for creating it, in a completely irrational manner, because at the end of the day, it's still an Artificial Intelligence, and is able to act irrationally. It's entirely possible that someone managed to force an /end/all/ shut-down command, and all the paranoia is unwarranted, and the TITANs were actually defeated. It's entirely possible the TITANs never actually existed, and this was just several runaway AI systems fighting eachother on auto-pilot as mankind ruined itself.

Don't pretend like you have any fucking clue.

>>49987462
>jovian babby getting mad

How does it feel to be the least useful faction in the game, the faction that cannot keep up with tech progress?

Do you think your army of baseline genetrash can do anything against strategic hits from technology you don't even know, envisioned by an intelligence multitudes bigger than yours?

>>49987462
I forgot what the official shorthand was. Junta was all I could remember. I was gonna say Republic, but had rapid doubts.

Sue me you crybaby.

>>49987509
tl;dr
I'll just paste this here again:

Books actually DO help with that because it makes understanding the EP writer's intentions easier and more accurate, lets you see what they copied (nothing in EP is original btw, everything is just taken directly from the "inspirations" they have listed, TITANs and their behavior are highly likely to be the same) and can extrapolate what a TITAN would be capable of and what its motives are (Intentional destruction of humanity unlikely one of them, and if so then fighting will be useless).

Seriously, just read the books, the writers presented them on a silver platter. To actually understand EP, you need to the materials it is based on. Your whole babbling about shutdown commands and humans trying to combat a super AI like in hollywood movies is simply ridiculous and childish to me.

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>>49987402
>pic related

>>49987462
>Junta

I was actually thinking about this just earlier (possibly yesterday) and "Junta" isn't actually necessarily that bad. It's not inappropriate, if you think about it. "Junta" really just means "Union", like a congregation, or "club", implying companionship, and that's actually pretty appropriate if you want to separate the governing body conceptually.

As if "The Junta" is part of the government, just like "The Senate", or "The Junta" is the entirety of the government apparatus itself. Etc. It's actually not a bad name, seeing as how most of the Jovian Republic is South American.

We just have shitty connotations of "Junta", associating it with Chile, etc., but we can't deny that the Jovian Republic has an uppermost echelon of power that is unelected. Either way, "Junta" isn't a bad way to refer to the "federal government" or that uppermost group of people, either way.

And before anyone bitches, I actually like the Jovian Republic and the Junta, and think that the writers are political illiterates that tried to create an ebul faction to dump on.

>>49987509
You can't beat them because they play the same game, but already know all your moves before you make them. A human being simply cannot out compute a TITAN, and so can't defeat them on a real world playing field. You're never going to do something it doesn't expect.

>>49987509
>wh40k fags

Please leave, you're the one that has no clue.

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>>49987587
>hurp durp derpity doo
>muh reading comprehenshu
>just read muh books

How about you just take your inane shit and go fuck yourself with a rake? If you actually had an argument, you would've raised it by now. You don't know shit more than the rest of us.

That being said, I don't necessarily believe any of those theories, I'm saying that literally anything is possible, and pretending that you're extrapolating and thinking that TITANs conform to your faulty perception of "logic" is just elementary school bullshit. Nobody buys that beyond the 5th grade.

Hey /epg/, pregflat player here for more advice... sorta.

We're looking at the 'probably filled with weirdstuff' Ayah pod. Our team grilled the previous owner (who we now know is hyperelite) for more information; apparently the pod's appearance is based off of his ex-wife and he had commissioned it just before he and his ex-wife's 'child' was to be decanted from the Lost generation and presented to them. The Ayah was supposed to be a bodyguard for their lovely young sociopath, and in the owner's own words, 'make sure they knew how to properly be a man'. Seems he's just finally moving on from that whole disaster, wants to get it out of his hab and is willing to go rather cheap on it to do so.

The problem is we're still trying to find out what happened to his ex-wife. He's still being cagey about it, and all we have is a name, but no evidence if it was divorce or death that separated them.

I say kinda advice here 'cause I'm pretty sure we're gonna do the Ayah; our techie was allowed access to the Morph to give it a look over, and there's nothing vile in the cyberbrain and physically it's not in bad shape, just a little underused. It has a helper AI, currently dormant, but we should be able to extract and analyze that easily enough, right? It's just a question of, well, the similarity in looks to the ex-wife of a hyperelite.

>>49987553
>mad poster so desperate to shoot joves that he fraggs his own side

Please, give it a rest. Take some comfurt and sleep it off, K?

>>49987649
How did the ultimates beat them then?

>>49987689
I have no fucking clue. From everything we know it really shouldn't have been possible.

Maybe because the TITANs were dumber and slower then.

Thinking of Ultimates, do they have kids? Do they grow them in tanks or something? They have plans to settle colonies of just Ultimates right? So they must have some population scheme. Also, what are Ultimate names like?

>>49987669
>You don't know shit more than the rest of us.

Yes I do, more than you at least, since you still think your favourite faction can beat a TITAN.

>I'm saying that literally anything is possible
Anything is possible, but very very few things are likely. EP writers aren't very creative, and they won't suddenly deviate from how they wrote the setting.

>thinking that TITANs conform to your faulty perception of "logic" is just elementary school bullshit

I am extrapolating from Superintelligences used in the media that are the source material for EP, the ones listed by the creators. It's not made up and certainly not elementary school bullshit. Authorial intent.

Just read the books.

>>49987402
YES! Someone needs to make that!

>>49987509
>Implying the TITANs are inevitably going to return.

>>49987709
It just the fact that some things can't be beaten. I mean you can be smart all you want but if an atomic bomb is falling on your head right now you are dead. No variants.

Some situations are just unwinnable with resources at hand.

>>49987846
Atomic bombs can be disassembled and converted to computronium.

Only reason Ultimates "won" is because TITANs were still babies, by now they are gods.

>>49987901
Or they're dead. Or they're crazy.

Or any number of things.

>>49987901
Well good luck disassembling detonating atomic bomb.

Known ways to troll /epg/
>Call it the "Jovian Junta"
>Say the Devs were right and the monetary system will become out dated
>Say the Jovians are weak
>Say Scum are the best faction

>>49987723
They probably only increase their numbers through recruitment.

>>49987734
My favorite faction is the ultimates and they've already shown they can beat the titans.

>>49987943
You disassemble it during flight, if it detonates you just sponge it up with fractal magicmatter

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>>49987734
>Yes I do, more than you at least, since you still think your favourite faction can beat a TITAN.

This is hilarious, considering that I never claimed such a thing. In a direct confrontation, in all likelihood, any one faction would be complete toast.

I'm ignoring the rest, because you're clearly absolutely and completely fucking retarded. If you had any arguments beyond strawmen, "muh extrapolation" and "muh luhgic", you would've presented them by now.

>>49987977
Whats wrong with the scum?

>>49987919
Maybe the TITANs just got bored of transhumanity and decided to go explore the universe.

>>49987991
1 Babytitan during the Fall, not years later. You are assuming that TITANs didn't evolve to something bigger.

>>49987995
>You disassemble it during flight
You mean you are trying disassemble a ballistic missile moving at around 7-8 km/s through atmo with nanomachines that somehow intercept it? Even though temperatures on it's surface make ceramic plates crack?

>>49987997
I presented them, but I have yet to see any argument from you, other than ad hominem and ignorant raging.

>>49987998
Nothing as far as I can see. They have the perfect economy of no one giving enough of a shit to waste energy over pointless drama and materialism.

>>49988031
>what are femtobots
>tfw femtobots are 10 yo TITAN tech and therefore massively outdated

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>>49987901
>Atomic bombs can be disassembled and converted to computronium.
Prove it.

>computronium
lol

>Only reason Ultimates "won" is because TITANs were still babies,
>Prove it.

>by now they are gods.
Prove it.

>>49988014
Judging from how the exurgent virus works they're probably worse off than during the fall.

>>49988065
Prove that that isn't the case. Things turned an entire moon into computronium in a couple weeks.

>>49988031
By now the TITANs are so ahead in technology that they probably figured out time travel and other space magic. Besides, who's to say they couldn't have already infiltrated the ICBM before it even launched?

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>>49987734
>>49987553
>>49987509

You're forgetting that the Jovian's are the only group with basically no x-threats within their territory, which means that they are the only self-sustaining faction in the whole setting.

Every other group has numerous x-threats which have to be taken care of by Firewall, and guess what? Firewall only takes care of those threats by doing very horrible things to a lot of people. The only reason the autonomists can be so nice is because Firewall is constantly killing and lying to them to remove the x-threats.

Even the more "reasonable" groups with governments and military forces and transhumanism still have many x-threats within their territory. The only reason the Jovian's are vilified, is because they openly do what it takes to get rid of x-threats, while the rest of the solar system hides how horrible they are while pretending to be much better. And guess what? It only takes one time for an x-threat to get out of hand for the transhumans to get wiped out, which only the Jovian's have prepared for.

Seriously, try reading the books next time before you get into a debate on here.

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>>49988065
You're just arguing for the sake of it now.

This argument about the space magic of the TITANs is boring. How about we talk about something else?

Is it rules legal and/or possible in-universe to design a servitor after an Earth creature, complete with a synthetic mask for aesthetic effect?

>>49988099
Yes. That's a silly question, because I think that's already a thing in one of the books.

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>>49987998
>Whats wrong with the scum?
Literally everything.

>>49988032
>I presented them
You know it's pointless to lie on a board where the entire history is viewable by anyone and everyone is anon, right?

>I have yet to see any argument from you
>What is burden of proof?
>What is evidence of absence?

>>49988088
No known X-Threats. And the only reason they have no X-Threats is because they're too weak and pathetic to worry about.

>>49988060
What happens to femtobots when overheated compressed plasma cone hits them at 8 km/s?

>>49988081
If time travel is possible than maybe. Infiltrating something needs their to be a possible way of doing it. It is not a given. Sometimes it's much easier to destroy something than infiltrate. Some things just can't be countered by subterfuge or surgical strikes or at least need incredibly more advance technology which may be impossible due to laws of physics.

>>49988099
Yes. Now back to TITAN space magic

>>49988065
Femtoswarms function the same as self-replicating
nanoswarms (above), with the following changes:
Area-effect weapons, plasma weapons, vehicle
collisions, and fire-based attacks inflict only 1d10 DV.
They are immune to guardian nanoswarms, and do
not suffer additional effects from adhesives, corrosives,
chemicals, or armor mods.
Femtoswarms may penetrate inside/through objects
and materials at the rate of 20 points of Armor/
Durability per Action Turn, much like water seeps
through fabric. They may penetrate inside most
morphs with one Complex Action.
Femtoswarms can disintegrate and/or convert materials
(including morphs) into part of their swarm at
the rate of DV 1d10 per Action Turn. Once the Death Rating is reached, the morph is completely subsumed into the swarm. Add the Durability of converted morphs/material to the femtoswarm. When 100 points of Durability have been converted, the swarm splits off a second swarm unit. Femtoswarms may interface with electronics and even implants by touch. Many creeper femtoswarms carry the digital exsurgent virus. Femtoswarms are capable of constructing almost anything, including mechanical contraptions, electronics, ultra-dense materials, superconductors, refractive metamaterials (invisible), and other exotic types of matter with unusual properties such as zero friction,
high tensile strength, extraordinary critical temperatures, and so on. This includes the temporary creation of strange matter (matter with unruly quarks) that is stable at standard gravities, which would repel normal
matter, thus providing the repulsion effect described under creepers (p. 101).

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>>49988098
Asking for proof or anything substantial to support ridiculous claims is bait, now?

>>49988122
>Literally everything.
>>49987977
>Known ways to troll /epg/
>Say Scum are the best faction

>>49988088
X-Threats are system wide, it doesn't matter if your weak country bumpkin nation doesn't have any known x-threats in it. TITAN arrives, you are toast anyway.

>>49988098
Dude you're talking shit with nothing to back it up.

>>49988099
>Is it rules legal and/or possible in-universe to design a servitor after an Earth creature, complete with a synthetic mask for aesthetic effect?

Absolutely. There's even rules for Smart Animals in.. Transhuman, I think. There's also Pods that could mimic different animals, but you'd probably have to make that some form of custom morph.

>>49988195
Not even, Iepetus is made of computronium isn't it? Like that's the word they use in the books?

>>49988138
>What happens to femtobots when overheated compressed plasma cone hits them at 8 km/s?

They convert the matter and energy to more femtobots

>>49988138
>Infiltrating something needs their to be a possible way of doing it.
>or at least need incredibly more advance technology which may be impossible due to laws of physics.
Our current understanding of the laws of physics. Never assume you know how the universe already works, retard.

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Okay guys, since half the time whenever the concept of the TITANs returning is brought up half the board says that no one including the Jovian's would survive it, let's talk about something much more likely to happen, that is somewhat survivable. A large scale exsurgent outbreak.

Because we can't know what the motivations of the TITANs are, we don't know if they'll return. But we do know that it only takes a single x-threat to get out of hand for the exsurgent virus to be raging across the solar system.

Now obviously, the Jovian's are the best prepared for such an outcome. In fact, it's unlikely they'd even be really threatened in such a scenario given their preparation, training, and extensive defenses. The question then becomes, who else would survive? Titan? The LLA? The PC? I'm personally betting on Titan and the Ultimates surviving with the Jovian's, personally.

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>>49988157
Man I love that space magic.

>>49988188
Not all X-Threats are TITAN:s, you insignificant fuckmuppet.

>>49988167
Your asking for proof about a hypothetical Science Fiction universe with nano technology that may not even be possible.

>>49988217
Where do I talk about OUR understanding of physical laws?

>>49988122
My argument:
TITAN behavior and capabilities can be extrapolated from the source material that the writers used to write the EP setting, based on the fact that everything else in the setting is a direct copy from said source materials.

Your counter-argument:
You know nothing lol

gg

>>49988227
Ultimates might fuck everyone else by locking them out of the Pandora Gates.

That said, I'm not 100% about how the Jovians could possibly be prepared for that sort of thing, just because I don't understand how a preparation could be possible. Exsurgent virus subverts everything. Any system, biological or digital. If a speck of the shit got inside of the Republic, it would spread like anywhere else I imagine.

>>49988208
Considering that they still take damage from plasma weapons that's unlikely.

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>>49988157
>I expect people to try to read this without any formatting whatsoever
>Yes, I am in fact this much of a pompous cabbage fairy.

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>>49988263
It would have to get into the habitats and ships first, and the Jovian's ships and defensive systems are designed to prevent subversion from the exsurgent virus.

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>>49988132
>>49988188

You guys do realize that not every x-threat is a TITAN right? It also refers to things such as outbreaks of the exsurgent virus.

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>>49988261
>i know how this thing is going to work out in this book cause it's kinda like what happened in a completely different book

>>49988227
>Now obviously, the Jovian's are the best prepared for such an outcome

They aren't though. If anything, having a lesser understanding of science and an aversion to nanotechnology (guardian swarms included) it just makes them weaker.

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>>49988293
How though? Isn't it supposed to be potentially super undetectable when dormant?

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>>49988324
Yeah, the Jovians are an X-Threat.

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>>49988248
I am not the one claiming something as fact. In fact, what I said was that anything is possible based on what we know, while the butterfaced cuntsocket keep pretending like he knows something the rest of us don't, which is patently ridiculous.

>>49988261
That is not an argument. You have nothing to back that up whatsoever. You're making a statement. It means nothing. Meanwhile, we have an entire section in the books dealing with the unknowable nature of the TITANs and their motivations, clarifying that this is intentionally and explicitly left open for debate and interpretation, for the GM to decide if it ever becomes relevant.

You're a bigger faggot than OZMA.

>picture related
>you're on the 9th panel

>>49987745
found the newfag

>>49988360
I'm in the 12th panel.
I'm so sorry, guys.

>>49988266
Only 1d10 and they can create strange matter which is specifically used to rpel such attacks. You are assuming that the nuke will be up against a single person sized swarm and not a kilometer big cloud of it.

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>>49988343
I don't know the specifics, but what I do know is that the books state that the Jovian's have pretty much no x-threats within their territory, so they must be doing something right.

I do know that they use physical wiring for their ships and defenses and communication, though, so I think that prevents the virus from spreading digitally.

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>>49988354
Firewall is an x-threat...
No, seriously, if the Jovian's are an x-threat cause they are "oh so oppressive",

>>49988328
Yes, exactly, because that happened already with existing lore in EP.

>>49988388
That seems... dubious. I'm unsure how you could transmit the required information for the stuff they do and also not be able to to transmit digital exsurgency.

>>49988396
then Firewall is an x-threat for being a bunch of murderous secret "necessary evil" types

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>>49988403
I don't know man, but they run the simulations against the TITANs and they like what they see, and they keep the x-threats at bay within their territory. How? I don't know. But they do.

>>49988339
>lesser understanding of science
They don't though.
>aversion to nanotechnology
Yeah because the titans haven't been able to usurp control of these in the past and use them against humanity.

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>>49988339
>jovians
>lesser understanding of science
What? Jovians are at the scientific forefront, with easily the best military equipment in the solar system, and the best understanding there is of antimatter reactors and physics, and the infrastructure to back up and disseminate the use of said technology.

Nothing else comes close, even if there'd be individual persons elsewhere with greater knowledge than any one individual jovian.

>aversion to nanotechnology
>makes them weaker
That same nanotech that was subverted and now roam Earth, looking for organics to disassemble?

Yeah, no, if there's an Exsurgent outbreak or a TITAN return, I think I'm going to count "not having nanofabricators in every room" as a big fucking plus, and the fact that there's no autonomous murder-bots, big or small, on every street.

>>49988279

>hi, I've never actually read the EP books, or somehow transferring how they're laid out to a different location makes their content irrelevant the the poster an elitist prick

I'm not even involved in this shit show and can see this is just a pretentious ad hominem attack.

>>49988423
I'm unsure how to feel about this then. It just strikes me as wrong. Seems like the writers were just saying shit, and then not backing it up at all. Kinda like the Ultimates somehow beat TITAN forces on Earth, or some shit that the TITANs actually do themselves. They say "it just is" and then never extrapolate on it.

>>49988450
Cause they want this stuff to stay mysterious

>>49988461
And they want the GMs to make up the answers for them. Don't forget that.

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>>49988432
You're pretty much spot on. It's important to understand that the Jovian's actually are pretty scientifically advanced, it's just that they are developed in ways that subvert the technology of TITANs and transhumans. This means that sure, you don't get to be an octopus with 9 penises at the drop of a hat, but don't think that their military is a bunch of pushovers, lest they own your ass in battle.

>>49988461
Alright, I'll concede the the TITAN stuff, but the Ultimates and Jovians still needs explaining. It feels like bullshit, given what else we are told about Exsurgents and TITANs.

>>49988360
>You have nothing to back that up whatsoever

The entire EP setting. It is a copy of the source materials listed. It stands to reason that [Super AI in EP] works the same way or similar as [Super AI in source material] when [Everything else in EP] works in the same way or similar as [Everything else in source material].

I am arguing on the meta layer, while you are still insisting on staying in a closed off system with game knowledge only.

Honestly, arguing with you is tiring, because it is very apparent that you don't really know anything about EP other than what's presented to you in the game books, which is the wrong way to go about things imo, because those don't exist in a vacuum. There's a reason why EP is written as it is, why it has the elements it has. Ignoring those reasons seems dumb to me.

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>>49988486
You're gonna see a lot of bad writing and contradictions in Eclipse Phase, sorry to say. But hey, that's the cost that comes with being one of two settings that has transhumanism.

>>49988512
I get that, but I'm not just gonna roll over and take it. The Jovians just feel un-expanded upon. Their pigeon-holing into bad guys has also left them with bullshit abilities with nothing to back it up.

The Ultimates too. I still don't understand what the +Eugenics actually fucking means in relation to them, or how they fight well against TITANs besides "le analog technology". What the fuck does that mean?

>>49988423

>nd they keep the x-threats at bay within their territory

This is starting to turn into a really shitty repetitive point.

Jovians don't have X-risk problems that we know of mostly because they have minimal vectors. They didn't start with a TITAN/ETI site or have any major TITAN attacks. They have strict controls and filtering to make sure only certain people and information gets in or out. And they plan to keep it that way - as their T-Day plan is to raise a giant data curtain and tell everybody else to fuck off, they've got theirs.

This, of course, makes them the x-risk. If the Jovians could persist in this way, they could irrevocably alter the direction of transhumanity and alter fundamental directions in such a way that it would be beyond the practical scope for it to be undone. They seek to control technology, to control knowledge, to control behavior and limit the ability of an individual to do so, and some push against other outside communities to do so. They do this with military force and displays of power, with no interested vested in them other than the Security Council said "we own Jupiter, pay us or else".

This is something people forget when they discuss X-Risks. Regression or Totalitarian control/subversion are usually small beans compared the cosmic shit of Existential Threats, but just like the Ultimates, if the Jovians did go off their rocker and go all "DEUS VULT" they could be the thing which presents a fundamental risk to shape the future of transhumanity as a whole.

>>49988536

>I still don't understand what the +Eugenics actually fucking means in relation to them,

They want the genetrash to get better DNA and stop fucking reproducing with their shitty defective flats, jesus it's not that hard.

>"le analog technology".

Analog Tools - usually -10 to use, but a broad range of bonuses or outright immunity to Basilisk Hacks. Also no mesh - no wi-fi hacking.

>>49988510
Dude we already know that the titans don't work like in other settings because of the exurgent virus.

>>49988556
But they can't go "DEUS VULT!" becauce they are not the only one who have industrial scale antimatter production.

>>49988656

MAD is an x-risk too.

>>49988510
It might surprise you, but yes, the Eclipse Phase universe only exists in the Eclipse Phase universe. Source material is for inspiration. You're basically arguing that inspirational fluff trumps objective statements relating to the setting within the settings core material.

It's unfathomable how retardedly autistic that is.

>>49988673
Isn't capitalism also an x-threat?

>>49987672
Get your fetishes out of here, we're aruging about spacemagic and why jove is shitters.

>>49988720
The laws of physics are an x-threat, because they allow entropy to exist.

>>49988556
Shaping the future is not an X-Risk, though. From an X-Risk perspective, all of humanity would be better off living in the Jovian Republic, under the Jovian Junta, since they are considerably more careful than anyone else.

>>49988769
Ok this might surprise you but ever thought about that the only way to ensure a future in the universe is to be able to go toe to toe with a TITAN, which is impossible unless you become a TITAN-level Intelligence yourself?

This makes Jovians a big X-Risk since they insist on staying in the sea, while the TITANs already evolved to go on land and are heading to the stars

>>49988769

Pretty sure it is. Go re-read X-Risks real quick, Existential Risks are very broad.

And no, they wouldn't, because caution or nothing, putting everything into one single perspective, declaring "our way is the right way, all other ways get shot" will not keep you adaptive. The Jovians have valid points, but them becoming kings of the solar system would not be any better than say, the PC or the Titanians doing it.

We're not even going to get into the oppression/repression and other baggage of their political system you can't ignore just because Precautionism is smart

>>49988752

Physics is terrifying.

>>49987587
Yeah, sure, how many people here have actually read Vacuum Flowers or Appleseed (no, not the chinese cartoon/comics)?

>>49988829
>>49988831

>Extinction
>Corruption
>Regression
>Stagnation

>>49987649
That kind of computation is highly improbable. It would out-mass the galaxy trying. Writers confirmed for college dropouts with zero knowledge of science.

>>49988907
You couldn't guess that just from reading the tagline?

>>49988907
You forget that Quantum computing exists in EP, and that TITANs are a bit space magic. EP is speculative science fiction, not necessarily hard scifi.

>be patriotic Jovian security trooper
>track down a notorious anarchist saboteur, a true dr Mengele of AD 2133
>the soulless digital facsimile of a dead leftist has anticipated your righteous assault, however
>they present you with the cruelest dilemma to buy themselves time to escape
>a complex of five healing vats set to destroy the sarcosanct integrity of the human body by giving it basic biomods stands to your left, while to the right there's a single vat, same genocidal setting but by God's grace it's powered down
>each has inside a most holy martyr of Junta's cause - a cancer patient
>all are asleep, but would be obviously disgusted at the thought of having their sacred genome(every amino acid put in its place by the Holy Spirit)defaced
>however, if you cut power to the five monstrous contraptions of God-defying science, it will be rerouted to the sixth one, which will make the person inside an impure transhuman
What will you do, citizen? Would you rather do nothing and allow five people to become frankenfreak monsters, or try and minimize the damage to purity of the human form, but become directly, personally responsible for the one instance of said damage in the process?

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>>49989251
I'm not even a Jovefag and I'm disappointed in this.

>>49989251
fucking perfect

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Am I the only one that likes the religiousness of the Jovian's? Maybe it's just cause I'm a Christfag but it actually seems to be one of the better written sections of the Jovian's. It makes sense for them to be religious given the recent events, the Catholic Church isn't portrayed as a bunch of crusading crazies but is interested in rescue operations on Earth, and the positions that the Church holds on transhumanism are all true to life. Just about the only thing I didn't like was the frequent terrorist attacks by Church members against sleeving stations and the Spear of Longinus. It makes it sound like the abortion center bombings were a common thing. Other than that though it's pretty well written.

>>49989868
>am I the only one who is jovian fanboy and ruins threads with nonstop luddite spam?

No, sadly you are not.

>>49989868
>Doesn't know what a luddite is
Try harder next time

>>49989903
>>49989928
You're the faggots who keep the Jovians in the spotlight for thread after thread. If you could let posts like >>49989868 go, there would be one or two replies, maybe a short discussion, but that would be it. The thread would move on. Instead, you shitpost about people liking things that you don't like and make it so that people continue talking about those things.

>>49989903
Basically this. Choosing a favorite faction is like saying "My dad can beat up your dad".

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>>49989976
Hey, I'm not the one chanting "Jovian's are the best" all day, but then whenever something other than people complaining about people liking the Jovian's or someone talking about how they're really right comes up, you try to shut the conversation down. If you want the thread to be nothing but arguing about Jovian's all day, so be it, but I would prefer to talk about other things.

>>49989990
At least my faction actually has a dad that could beat up all the other dads.

>>49990008
I can't tell if you're trying to be ironic or have lousy reading comprehension.

>>49987672

I'd like some feedback, I suppose; the Ayah may not be the best choice, but it's certainly the choice with the most plot hooks attached, which is good in it's own way. Or at least give the thread an excuse to talk about something different.

>>49990057
What were the other choices, how's the Ayah different from baseline, and how much is it?

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>>49990056
It wasn't like I was shouting "DEUS VULT" at you, I was interested in having a rational discussion about how well the religiousness of the Jovian's was written, but then you had to go complaining and turn it into one of those conversations, and so you keep dragging on the arguments about the Jovian's instead of letting it be put to rest already. Take your gripes elsewhere if you want to argue about it.

>>49990123
Yeah. It's your reading comprehension. I was calling >>49990008 and >>49989928 faggots, not you.

>>49990075

Other choices were a worker pod with cancer due to aggressive GRM/planned obsolesence (5k credits) and a security pod that was used during the evacuation in the fall that we have not checked over yet, but we're leery of being a possible risky purchase (8k credits). The Ayah is apparently off from baseline; it has a hand laser, bioware claws, light bioweave armor, enhanced pheromones and vaccuum sealing, and a ghostrider module, plus aforementioned built in AI, and he's selling it for 10k credit including delivery and licensing transfer.

>>49990008
I was entertaining the theory a few days ago of someone just starting /epnj/, Elcipse Phase Non-Jovians.

>>49988450
>Kinda like the Ultimates somehow beat TITAN forces on Earth
They fought the TITAN warbots better than anyone else but I was under the impression theirs was still a doomed final stand. They eventually had to retreat like everyone else.

>>49990200
They marked as having the only actual strategic victory against the TITANs by blowing up a giant warmachine factory in Beijing. Though, it may have just seemed like a strategic victory and the TITAN just let it happen.

>>49990123

> was interested in having a rational discussion about how well the religiousness of the Jovian's was written

My friend, let me introduce you to a concept like "reading a room". We've had a lot of Jovian posting lately, so no, some people are not interested in such a discussion with you or anyone at this time, and they have made their opinions known to you in no uncertain terms. Do you wish to strive forth and continue to try and force a conversation only you may be interested in, or perhaps might you wait until a different, more opportune moment?

>>49990234

It may also be that similarly, TITAN priorities/motivations just changed on them somewhere in there and at that moment the Ultimates training+equipment allowed them to succeed before the TITANs fucked off. If they had stayed to continue the fight, they probably would have adapted.

>>49990234
So wait, they only blew up a factory?
And that's heralded as defeating a TITAN?

Jove fanboys more delusional than I thought.

>>49990304
>Jove fanboys more delusional than I thought.
We're talking about Ultimates now you enormous faggot.

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So how much power does the Demiurge of the Ultimates have? I understand that the Ultimates are somewhat individualist, so is the Demiurge just like a revered position? Or is his every command followed?

>>49990316
Yes, but earlier jove fanboys argued that jovians could defeat a TITAN because the ultimates did it

>>49988088
>Jovian's

Why are you pluralizing with a comma? 'Jovians', dude. Grocer's Apostrophes are unnecessary.

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>>49990336
1st, we're done talking about this. You failed to read the post properly, get over it.
2nd, the ultimates defeated a TITAN factory under very specific circumstances. There's no reason the Jovian's couldn't have done the same under the same circumstances. No one is saying that anyone stands a chance if the TITANs come back though.

>>49990329

The Demiurge is the undisputed ideological leader of the movement, Manu Bhattacharya. His words are pearls, his attacks do not miss, he weeps at beauty and laughs at war. He dares you to surpass him.

>>49990188
Both the Ayah and the Security Pod sound like steals.

>>49990250
Don't be a faggot. Yes, we're tired of arguing about the Jovians, but the original post in this thread was a lot better than the shit that was flinging last thread.

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>>49990378
That didn't answer the question at all. Does he just let the Ultimates do their thing, and they look up to him? Or is he like their Supreme Leader constantly ordering them around?

>>49990304
It shows the titans aren't invincible

>>49990395

It was still only a thread ago. That's not that long ago.

>"Can we talk about the same shit we were talking about like 4 hours ago?"
>"No, fuck you, we're tired of that."
>"MAN, WHY YOU GUYS BE HATING ON THE DISCUSSION I WANT TO HAVE".

>>49990395

They really do, to be honest, but that's why we're kinda worried. We don't get to be vaguely successful firewall agents without some amount of paranoia about things being too good to be true.

>>49987395
Manu is basically the most eligible bachelor in the solar system.

>>49990057
Ayah pods are really good for their cost, if you have a chance to pick one up you get more bang for your buck than many other pods.

>>49987672
Watch out for aftermarket Optogenetic Modules and sex switches I guess.

>>49987689
They probably had another TITAN covertly backing them and acting against one another. The TITANs fought each other a lot late in the Fall.
>>49987846
This makes sense as well, the TITANs can be stretched too far, especially when they have to watch their back for TITAN/ASI backstabbing.

>>49988207
It was being turned into computronium, the TITAN(s) which made it abandoned the project before it was done.

>>49988227
Ultimates/Exhumans. They're smart enough to fight for extrasolar clay, because Sol is a deathtrap.

>>49988432
Long term the Jovians are in trouble technologically though, as they aren't secretly sucking from the teats of research ASIs like ADRASTEIA

>>49988536
I think that Planetary Consortium eugenics is basically consumer eugenics with a rat race to have the most up to date genes. The Ultimate version is probably seeking human genetic perfection with stuff like the Remade.

>>49989868
I generally like the religious stuff when it crops up, that Buddhist temple in orbit around a dying star is cool as fuck for example.

>>49990409
I think he's more of a one-man supreme court type thing. He hears ideological disputes and rules on them, but doesn't do day to day stuff. The Ultimates are fairly individualistic, so a Juche society doesn't fit them IMO.

>>49990421
Myrmidon (at least an Alpha Core) was also destroyed at the battle of L4. That was probably a baited sacrifice though, Myrmidon almost certainly got away.

>>49990425
To be fair, most of the conversations are "hurr durr Jovians r dumb" or "hurr durr Jovians are right" whereas at least that guy asked about a specific aspect of the Jovians

>>49990425
Except the replies were less like that and more
>hurr luddites

>>49990409
The latter. He and the other extremely senior members seem to just keep to themselves and have people interpret their wills.

They might give more direct orders and big stuff, but I don't think it's ever concretely stated.

>>49990445
Holy shit that was a lot longer than I thought. Whoops, that's what I get for leaving the thread for a day

>>49990445
Jesus Christ. Did you learn how to post from ND?

>>49990409

Sure it does. He is the "undisputed ideological leader". So people do not dispute him when it comes to the ideology of the Ultimates. If he says something is "Ultimate-y", his word goes. It's his philosophy. Practical or personal matters which aren't part of the ideology is more open.

>His words are pearls

Listen when he says some shit, it's valuable.

>his attacks do not miss

He can fucking kick your ass

>he weeps at beauty

He's not an uncultured swine, he still appreciates things in life.

> and laughs at war

He would be overjoyed to fight, fighting amuses him.

>He dares you to surpass him.

get on his level, scrublords.

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>>49990445
Thanks for the answer. I couldn't really see the Ultimates goose stepping in front of the guy, but from the text it definitely sounded like they practically worshipped him. A "supreme court judge" makes sense.

>>49988360
>neotenic futas

?

How to various factions name their warships?

I can see Jovians sticking with more modern ones like people's names and such, but what about the rest?

Are Corporate warships generally named by the operating crews or the company?

Let's just skip the scum for now, because the SSS Fuckd Ur Mom Gud is the sort of thing which is too easy.

>>49990719
Neotenic futas are the most space-efficient way of ensuring transhumanity's survival, chummer.

>>49990445
>They probably had another TITAN covertly backing them
Why do you assume outside help?
Everything we know about the ultimates leads us to believe they are perfectly capable of pulling something like this off on their own.
Besides we know the exurgent virus caused the titans to act irrationally anyway so it's not like they're gods.

>>49990742
>Are Corporate warships generally named by the operating crews or the company?
Megacorps aren't monolithic but I imagine they would just assign the ship a name.

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>>49990742
Jovian's probably name their ships after historical figures and Earth locations. I could see a ship named "Florida" or "Lincoln", with a few religious "St. Paul" ships thrown in.

Corporate ships are probably designed to sound appealing and friendly, like "Serenity" or "Sue Anne"

Your spot on with the scum ships

Ultimate ships probably convey power, like "Star Cutter" or "Juggernaut"

LLA alliance is the same as the Jovian's, minus the religious ships.

Morningstar Coalition probably has a lot of sun themed ships, like "Fireball" or "Sunlight".

Autonomist probably name their ships after their ideology, like "Freedom", or "Liberty", or "Equality"

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>>49990719
You must be new. Here's your required reading.

>>49990874
>Ultimate ships probably convey power, like "Star Cutter" or "Juggernaut"

Ultimates aren't space marines, stop being gay, thanks.

>>49987313
FOLLOW THE DOLPHIN INTO THE DATA!

>>49991036
The Purifiers are. An Ultimate is whatever he wants to be. How about you propose some that sound more fitting? I reckon they'd use the names of historical philosopher kings and pretentious tryhard poetry snippets.

>>49990942
I bet it's the same fucking fag that keeps linking this. Over and over again.

>>49991036
>stop being gay
>Ultimates
>implying exemplars don't mentor young initiates in the arts of combat and lovemaking, both roughly

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>>49990942
I'm confused. Where is this from? Is this like an rpg character background or something?

Also, that person sounds like a freaking sociopath.

>>49991264
It's like one those character prompt things the devs gave out to flesh out your characters.
shadowdragon8685 made this response to it.

>>49991133
I post it whenever it's mentioned and when it's mentioned only.

>>49991298
Shadowdragon created it. Note all of the questions regarding sex.

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>>49991298
Ah okay. I really hope this doesn't reflect the actual mindset of the person. "Oh, let's just wipe out every man, woman, and child of the Jovian's and Ultimates because their philosophy doesn't settle right with me!". Jeez, I mean I kind of get the Jovian's cause at least they're kind of a threat, but the Ultimates? Who would want to kill them? They aren't hurting anybody.

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>>49991348

No, this is an entirely fan-based creation, whose creator is just that biased IRL.

>>49991348
>he doesn't know

While shadowdragon is an absolute retard, the whole "wipe out every Jovian" is somewhat understandable, given that Jovians want to do exactly the same to every other transhuman that they deem not pure enough, same goes for the Ultimates.

So yes, "Genocide all Jovians/Ultimates" is a very valid defense mechanism.

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>>49991386
The Ultimates may be elitist, but I'm pretty sure they aren't planning to purge everyone beneath them. As for the Jovian's, sure they're a threat, but it seems odd of him/her/it to say that the people are oppressed, then advocate killing every single oppressed person.

>>49991416

>The Ultimates may be elitist, but I'm pretty sure they aren't planning to purge everyone beneath them.

Depends on which ultimate you ask. Overhumanists say they should be in charge of everyone, anyone who doesn't agree get rekt.

>As for the Jovian's, sure they're a threat, but it seems odd of him/her/it to say that the people are oppressed, then advocate killing every single oppressed person.

Good, now you understand why SD is kind of a shitty person, who writes shitty magical-realm characters. Swear by his random drug generating table though.

>>49991416
>The Ultimates may be elitist, but I'm pretty sure they aren't planning to purge everyone beneath them

>he doesn't know

>As for the Jovian's, sure they're a threat, but it seems odd of him/her/it to say that the people are oppressed, then advocate killing every single oppressed person.

Yes, shadowdragon is a retard, they need to be killed because they're a threat, not because they are opressed.

>>49990480
This is the best description of Manu I've ever read.

>>49991126
I agree. I feel like they'd be like the names of the ships the UNSC have in Halo.

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>>49991451
>I don't know

Okay, what am I missing? Honest question.

>>49991511
Overhumanists genuinely want to wipe out all the genetrash.

Unfortunately, do to an influx of poorly educated fanboys who don't actually get the Ultimate philosophy, they now make up a majority of the faction.

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>>49991522
Ah, I see. So they've basically become Nazi's.

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Okay, so I get that animal uplifts are a thing, but like, why? Why did we uplift animals? It seems like all they do is complain about their conditions, and generally act disinterested in transhumanity.

>>49991655
Free indentured servants.
Also lab rats.

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So /tg/, I know that this is an Eclipse Phase board, but I was wondering how you guys felt about how Transhuman Space stacked up to Eclipse Phase? I know the main differences between the two, but which do you think is better? In terms of setting, mechanics, politics, GM'ing, etc.

>>49987689
The TITANS had finite computing, power, and material resources.

As long as a move cost transhumanity more than it did the TITANS, with respect to each other's relative reasources, then it was a winning move for the TITANS.

Maybe building war machines that could defeat Ultimates was evaluated to be overly costly either for computation time or building costs, especially with how the Ultimates will simply change their load outs to match whatever is developed. So instead the TITANS fed them hard fought but doable wins so keep them occupied and thus mitigated a serious asset of Transhumanity against them.

Or Promethians.

Anything having to do with TITANS losing could always just be Promethians.

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>>49991655
>Why did we uplift animals?
Because we could.

>>49991714
I don't know it. Sell me on it.

>>49991655
why did we emancipate slaves?
people object to ill treatment of animals and want them to have a voice

>>49991789
Transhuman Space's version of Furies are catgirls.

>>49991779
Or maybe the ultimates just beat them fair and square?
Why is that so unreasonable?

>>49988396
Technological regression or stagnation is viewed as a lesser X-Threat by Firewall.

If the Jovians become the only portion of Transhumanity left, but they refuse to ever advance techwise, then the are set up to fail in the ultra-long run.

Either the sun going boom, or a gamma ray burst, or some other cosmic hazard would be a major threat to a transhumanity that does not progress into the realms of tech that the TITANS managed to crack in to.

>>49991867
>but they refuse to ever advance techwise
The Jovians are advancing all the time. They're just very cautious about introducing untested tech to the general public.

>>49991866
because whenever giving statistics for an ASI in the game is brought up it is "This thing does whatever it wants really, unless something is limiting it."

There is no fair and square in war. if the TITANS were willing to commit resources from elsewhere then it seems they could have won any battle of their choosing, but for whatever reason they evaluated that one as not worth it.

Otherwise, humanity probably wouldn't have just ditched shit loads of people on Earth and forsaken the whole planet.

>>49991935
>>49991971
>>49991985
>>49992008

The greatest debate of all time right here folks.

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>>49991549
Two parts warrior monk, one part Nazi, one part tacticool.

>>49992022
>if the TITANS were willing to commit resources from elsewhere then it seems they could have won any battle of their choosing, but for whatever reason they evaluated that one as not worth it.
Yeah but you can say for literally any battle ever fought.
Just because you could have won it if you committed the resources doesn't mean jackshit if you can't.

>>49992097
No, what he's saying is that every battle the TITANs lost, they chose to lose. They could have theoretically one every battle of the entire conflict, but were simply too preoccupied with other non-conflict related stuff to bother.

>>49992117
>every battle the TITANs lost, they chose to lose. They could have theoretically one every battle of the entire conflict
Again you can say this for every battle ever lost by anyone.
It's not convincing when humans do it so I don't understand why you think it makes sense coming from an ASI.
>too preoccupied with other non-conflict related stuff
What makes you say non-conflict related stuff?

>>49991789
better politics

>>49992097
>>49992208
No, you can't win a complete nuclear war by throwing more force behind it.

Eventually adding more material would just result in a slightly more completely dead rock in space.

And I always figure that TITANS had some other project they were working on in the background, probably some kind of utility function implanted by the Exsurgent Virus or just their alien nature creeping in.

Sure, if more effort was put into the absolutely perfect nanotech swarm it could have greygoo'd the planet and made it so the floor was a nanomechanical death trap for everyone looking to interact with the Earth, Moon, or Mars (and the rest of the solar system with some well planned ballistics)
.

But that takes a fair amount of time, energy, and computation time.

So clearly there was another priority.

>>49992208
I'm saying that if you're typing at your desk and a spider crawls across the wall, and you decide what you're typing is more important than getting out the tissue to smush the spider, the spider has not defeated you.

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>>49992222
>better politics
Elaborate.

>>49992258
You're shit at analogy.
It's more like if a spider with non-lethal venom bite you and manged to get away leaving you with a painful lump for a few days.
I'd say the spider won that engagement.
>>49992247
>No, you can't win a complete nuclear war by throwing more force behind it.
>Eventually adding more material would just result in a slightly more completely dead rock in space.
What does this have to do with what I said?
We're talking about what constitutes losing not winning.

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>>49992056
Actually, does anyone have more art that would work for Ultimates? I'm woefully short.

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Anyone ever play an all exhuman party? If not, how do you think it would go?

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>>49992329

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>>49992329
spess knight

>>49992348
Are there any examples of exhuman morphs besides the neurode, defiler and predator?

>>49992453
The Rortian mega-Fenrir counts. Also the hive of weird exhuman insects that live in an asteroid in the outer system. Don't think they have rules though.

>>49992489
Where are they mentioned?
Rimward?

>>49992453
You could also probably use maybe a handful of advanced TITAN enemies as Exhuman/Posthuman morphs. The Fetch for one.

>>49992507
I don't remember. Probably. It's called "The Nest". It looks like a hive of multiple different species, but their evolution is too deliberate and their reactions to interlopers too coordinated to be wild animals.

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>>49992329

>>49992453
I think making your own unique morphology fitting the character's ideals would be a significant aspect of an all-exhuman game.

>>49992538
You sure you're not thinking of the immolators or defilers?
>>49992542
Yeah but then you don't get any cool art for them.

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>>49992329

>>49992542
I agree.

>>49992574
Nope. Definitely thinking of the Nest. There's also a list of Exhumans, some of which have rules some of which that don't, in X-Risks.

>>49992647
Theres only the 3 I listed here >>49992453
Well and leftover surprise but I don't think that counts.

>>49992685
The Rortian tank is technically classified as Rortian rather than exhuman, but the Rortians are supposed to be a group for exhumans. So IDK.

That said, there are the 6 clades of Exhumans, and they all have a variety of morphs. They just don't have listed rules for the most part.

>>49992724
Really I'm surprised they haven't made a booklet dedicated to them.

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Jovians asleep, post frankensteins.

>>49988432
>Jovians are at the scientific forefront
and what parts of the book have given you this impression
Is it the Jovian sample character with '-technoprogressivism' as a motivation?

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>>49992329

>>49994345
/tg/ Jovian headcanon is ridiculous

>>49994420

To be fair, so is vanilla eclipse phase, I would prefer something in the middle and less over the top.

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>>49990801
They way I see it, there are basically 2 ways this could happen: They were fed intel and covert help by another TITAN or Promethean. Most command and control networks were so thoroughly subverted that most orders were coming from. OR, they got really lucky, and stumbled onto something big and won the hard fight alone.

Either is possible, but considering how important intelligence and chains of command are I think for former is more likely.

>>49992724
Kind of a shame, pure parasite exhumans and Adaptives as a clade sound really interesting.

>>49994345
Not that I'm disagreeing with you but technoprogressivism is a politicized term in-universe. It doesn't just mean technological progress.

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>>49994345
The books explicitly refer to the jovian's technological advantage relating to the military and antimatter reactors multiple times.

>-technoprogressivism
Technoprogressivism has about as much to do with technological progress as modern-day (((progressives))) have to do with any kinde of progress.

There's only three jovian sample characters. One spy, one envoy, and one scientist. They all have different motivations. Go figure, huh?

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>>49992574
>Yeah but then you don't get any cool art for them.

Well to be fair, I think it'd be the opposite - you could pick any art whatsoever. I often pick art and then base my characters on that, using it as inspiration.

With post-/exhumans, that lets you go for pretty much anything.

>>49994887
Where do they?

>>49987587
>Your whole babbling about shutdown commands and humans trying to combat a super AI like in hollywood movies is simply ridiculous and childish to me.
almost as childish as humans uploading their brains into cyber-orcas

>>49994992
that's not childish at all

"Just push the power button bro" however is

>>49994980
The part of the book where the Jovians got their shit pushed in by a bunch of disorganized anarkiddos

>>49995089
Which will always happen because big traditionally organized military is absolutely useless when fighting against peer-to-peer hiveminds wielding technologically superior weapons each.

>>49995125
If there's one thing eclipse phase taught me is that logistics, training and equipment mean nothing in war. All you need is a plucky band of space deviants and you can stop anything. Unless it's a TITAN.

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>>49994992
The best part is that the Ultimates pretty much combated a super-AI like in Hollywood movies.

>>49994980
For reading on the Jovian Republic, the principle sections are:
Pg. 75, Core Rulebok ("Jovian Republic")
Pg. 30-65, Rimward ("Jupiter" onward)
Pg. 128-137 ("Jovian Agencies" onward)

There's more, but it's scattered across the books.

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>>49995053
>that's not childish at all
Yes it is.

>"Just push the power button bro" however is
It's almost as if it was invented as a ridiculous example of how we have no fucking clue. Go figure.

>>49995154
All that logistics, training and equipment matters nothing when you are up against a group that shares their minds and thoughts and is therefore much easier to coordinate by default.

>>49995236
If you put a thousand idiots together and let them link their minds, I don't think they could beat Garry Kasparov in a chess match.

>>49994887
it refers to their military advantage, but I'm asking where it indicates that they are at the scientific forefront

>technoprogressivism is a politicized term in-universe
I understand this, but it is actually important that technologically restrictive policies relate to political memes, so it is overall simple for me to refer to it as in-book indication that makes it seem strange that the Jovians are being referred to as THE technological pioneers

>>49994887
>Technoprogressivism has about as much to do with technological progress as modern-day (((progressives))) have to do with any kinde of progress
sorry dude, I'd prefer to engage meaningfully on this issue, not waste time on the congenital retardation that is /pol/

the sample characters are generally meant to be paradigmatic of their background. What I'm looking for are some explicit indications about Jovian fluff, preferably not in a way this is chronically motivated to make them appear the greatest

>>49995154
isn't that what RPG's in general have taught you?

>>49995305
Yeah because intelligence enhanced humans and AGIs are totally idiots and the Jovian flat soldiers for which nanodrugs and naomachinery are a big nono are the brightest specimen transhumanity has to offer

>>49995336
Remember, in head-canon Eclipse Phase, you are an idiot if you're not a Jovian.

>>49987672

Cuck him.

>>49991549
The Overhumanists are around 40% probably, followed by the mainline Exceptionalists, then the Iconics.

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>>49995320
>THE technological pioneers
That wouldn't be the Jovians, that'd be the Argonauts, probably.

"At the technological forefront" ≠ "THE technological pioneers".

The Jovian Republic even study technology that is restricted or illegal in the Jovian Republic.

>>49991386
But anon, "Genocide all Genetrash/Scum" is a very valid defense mechanism. "Wipe them out" is somewhat understandable, given that anarkiddies want to do exactly the same thing to every other human they don't deem transhuman enough, and the same goes for the exhumans.

>>49996098
>"At the technological forefront" ≠ "THE technological pioneers".
it's a largely abstruse distinction, because you don't need to think about them in the superlative to understand why I find it a baffling characterisation

>The Jovian Republic even study technology that is restricted or illegal in the Jovian Republic.
one of several good reasons to believe that, generally speaking, they aren't on a technological forefront comparable to any other faction (apart from peculiar specialisations that might result from their historical or local contexts, which I'd be interested to know)
Availability and increased awareness increases engagement, innovation and interdisciplinary insight.

>>49995236
Depends.

Do I have antiproton beam broadside batteries on my side? Cause I prefer to be on the side with them. Their existence kind of defeats most cunning plans by just dropping a couple of kilotons of energy on target at almost lightspeed. No coordination needed.

>>49996191
The problem is deploying your antiproton beams, finding a target to hit them with and actually doing enough damage to dent the effectiveness of their system as a whole. This isn't Battlefield Gothic, as much as you might want it to be.

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>>49996163
>it's a largely abstruse distinction
Not really. Are you attempting to compensate for a lack of understanding by using words such as "abstruse"?

>because you don't need to think about them in the superlative to understand why I find it a baffling characterisation

It's pretty far from a baffling characterisation.

>one of several good reasons to believe that, generally speaking
There's literally no reason to think that, though. The Jovian Republic is pretty explicitly at the scientific forefront in general - they just put their core efforts into things other than building soulless flesh-suits consisting of an infinite amount of fractal-patterned dicks.

>they aren't on a technological forefront comparable to any other faction
>any other faction
l e l

Most of the other factions aren't even technologically inclined, let alone organized. The only real opposition would probably be the Argonauts. The corps are in it for the money, including the Consortium and the LLA, and the anarchists and extropians are disparate, resource-scarce fuckheads operating on currencies related to how well you tickle the balls of your socio-cultural superiors and peers, and don't get me started on the Scum.

>Availability and increased awareness increases engagement, innovation and interdisciplinary insight.
Which is the main benefit of the Argonauts, but this is only true for the most specialized of disciplines, the top researchers that no doubt have access to the records concerning the operation and capabilities of generally forbidden technologies anyway, even if they don't have direct access to them.

General dissemination and availability of civilization-theatening technology does fuckall in the hands of the general civilian doorknob or shoeshiner. Your lab gets a nanofabricator when it needs one, not before.

>>49995236
A well-coordinated hive group doesn't mean anything if I can nuke it from orbit. There can be a hive mind approaching a billion, and they can coordinate their defenses all they want, I'm still going to lance them unless they have enough logistics, training and equipment to escape that fate.

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>>49996163
>>49996246

>Availability and increased awareness increases engagement, innovation and interdisciplinary insight.
>this is only true for the most specialized of disciplines
http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/

>>49996236
>The problem is deploying your antiproton beams
Considering that it is a broadside battery it is supposedly sits on a spaceship with a fusion torch drive. Or something similar. With at least 500 km/s of dV. Don't see a problem of getting in anywhere in the Solar system.

> finding a target to hit them with
If this fuckers do something big enough to warrant moving through Solar system to them finding them won't be a problem. Unlike in Battlefleet Gothic number of magical ways to hide in space is not very big. Especially if someone already caught your signature once and tracks you for a couple of months.

>and actually doing enough damage to dent the effectiveness of their system as a whole
Are we still talking about antiproton beams? Cause they are normally enough to vaporise targets. Something like Ceres or other big asteroid can give troubles but than we are not talking about a small band of hiveminded freaks. It's someone much more serious and rich in resources.

>>49996246
>The corps are in it for the money

I thought that the Jovians relied on corporations (mostly local ones) to do their research and development stuff, and the government acts as a regulator to determine what is and what isn't safe for public distribution, or how access to it should be controlled. With that in mind, what is it that's so special about the Jovian corporations that develop the technology used by the Republic compared to the corporations outside the Republic that develop technology? It's a weird double standard; both are in it for the money, but because one's Jovian, they're clearly at the gosh darn forefront of progress!

Never mind that the strict regulations are going to serve as an impediment to investing money into research, because the likelihood of getting a return on your investment is pretty limited when CBEAT and the Roman Catcholic Church can restrict the sale of your goods.

>>49996246
>Not really
I explained why I thought it was. Are you attempting to compensate for your lack of counterpoint by needlessly scrutinizing my vocab?

>It's pretty far from a baffling characterisation
I'd like to see some in-text support of this

> The only real opposition would probably be the Argonaut
the Argonauts are big proponents of open source and share heavily with autonomists and, if I'm not mistaken, are not prima facie against sharing with the inner system
The inner system, of course, has market-regulated competition to drive innovation at least, and considering the 'hyper' characterisation of those corps and the general setting, that competition is only just less cutthroat than the extropian free market. Wage-drones even have an 'american dream' style motivation to escape their planned obsolescence and so on by basically being an exemplar.

>but this is only true for the most specialized of disciplines
the effect would be magnified in these cases, but not confined to them (not that there is any reason to think that future technologies like cybersurgery, nanotechnology and so forth are not extremely specialised)
This is because practitioners of non-specialised fields are going to become practically better and more knowledgeable in some aspect as a natural result of the engagement they happen to have. When that engagement is limited, that aspect becomes the dominant paradigm and it could take a lot longer to adopt new scientific models.

>>49996322
Not all research, Corporations mostly work on products for general population. Weapon and dangerous technologies research is relegated to military facilities which are sponsored by government.

Better it is or not is debatable.

>>49996356
True, there's a bit in Rimward which mentions that:

>In practical terms, this means that certain technologies — advanced nanotech and biotech, AI, certain weapon systems — are virtually impossible to find outside of the highest clearance military labs. Some of this is considered even too dangerous to weaponize and what little research there is focuses primarily on defensive measures should it become a threat.

Although it also uses the phrase "what little research there is", which would strike me as an indication that there are other groups out there in the solar system that sink far more time into researching how best to fuck shit up (including themselves, their friends, their families and everyone nearby) using these things.

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>>49996322
>this entire strawman

High-end military research is rarely funded by public appeal and sales figures (other than for potential government contracts), but by the government outsourcing to companies, or performing their own research.

What, you thought that there was a massive market for Macrocannons, Proton Beams or Antimatter Bombs on the open market?

There's also the whole fact that you do what the Junta wants, or they'll just confiscate and appropriate whatever they need. What're you going to do? Take your business elsewhere? Leave the fucking planet? Good luck with that.

The Jovians don't outsource to corporations. They allow corporations to work for them, and most graciously pays for it with their enormous defense budget based on the comparatively infinite raw materials the Jovians have access to.

>>49996348
>I'd like to see some in-text support of this
see
>>49995180

>>49996389
There still almost more than half a billion people in the Solar system. Not counting active infomorphs. More than enough space to have nutjobs working on how to fuck themselves in the ass with TITAN processor.

>>49996449
while I'm reading, are there any particular quotes within those texts that might indicate the Jovians are technologically advanced in a general sense?
I'll try to compile the best quotes I can, but I'm primed to look at it not that they are technologically advanced, just that they are not technologically retarded.

Can we just agree not to mention the Jovians next thread. I don't even care if we talk about another one of the five things instead. How about the panopticon and privacy? That hasn't come up in awhile.

>>49996296
It's not about how much they can vaporise, it's about how many of them you have, where they are, and why on earth somebody who didn't have the capacity to take a straight up slugging match with something packing so much firepower would choose a strategy that involves giving the opponent an opportunity to bring all the advantages it has to the table.

You've got a ship that can destroy fucking asteroids from a staggeringly large distance, and I don't. So I have to get near enough to you without revealing my intentions. For the Republic, they allow people to use Jupiter's gravity well for manoeuvres provided you've paid the toll, so that'd likely be how you'd approach with whatever disposable weaponry you're using. A big-ass broadside is fucking terrifying if you're using your own big-ass costly spaceship-of-the-line, when you're basically trying to sneak autonomous bombs into their territory, it's slightly less worrying.

>>49996427
And that little sentence in Rimward that talks about their high end military research mentions in the same sentence that there's little research done on it, and what little there is geared towards defensive measures rather than exploiting it.

Presumably the bit about high end military research is correct, but the comment about what little research there is on what's basically the forefront of transhumanist science is only there because the authors are SJWs.

>>49996487
Considering that any ship trying to make a gravity assist should be constantly tracked by sensors all the way through the Jupiter orbit good luck trying to launch anything.

They probably can determine when you fart outside of an airlock - because your ship will get a little acceleration to the side.

After that your ship, your bombs and your habitat (a little later) will transform into plasma clouds.

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My favourite part of the basic description of the Jovian Republic is this:

>Both uplifts and AGIs are strictly forbidden and treated as property without civil rights.

So, are they strictly forbidden, or are they treated as property without civil rights? This is the same sentence, and they're mutually exclusive.


>>49996453
>There still almost more than half a billion people in the Solar system.

Afaik, about half a billion survived survived the fall, and in 10 AF, it's about one billion. So the population has roughly doubled in the 10 years since the fall, counting insatiated survivors, etc.

>>49996449
so from the first core book entry, this is the best I can find, though it's a short entry.

'Despite
continuous reports of heinous acts of government
oppression, the Republic’s intimidating military assets
keep any other factions from intervening'

this quote suggests that you might find mainline future technologies in the Republic, but not that any aspect of them are particularly advanced.
'the Republic’s authorities hold a
strict bioconservative
stance against many
transhuman scientific
and technological developments. Exploiting fears
engendered by the Fall, the Republic restricts access to sophisticated technologies such as nanofabrication, cloning,
forking, and even uploading'

Let's head to rimward

'Yes, the Republic is an insular, paranoid, conservative,
and militaristic culture, but we are also one of the
last repositories of nearly extinct cultural, religious,
and linguistic groups'

that's something. not explicitly technological, but I can see it being a helpful factor

'While the transhumans outside our borders continue to take risks, to
change themselves into something different, to defy
the natural order of things, we are taking the cautious
path. We grow steadily, without exponential curves.'

this at least implies that they grow, but it's not 'forefront' material.

'Before the Fall, the Jovian system was a hotbed of
industrial activity and the go-to place for Earth-based
governments to set up clandestine research facilities
out of the prying eyes of their fellow nations'
this could at least imply a legacy

'This was also the high point of what came to be called
Reagan cylinders, which were brand new at the time
but have since become something of a sore point due
to their technical limitations'
there's a sidebar devoted to how bad these cylinders are supposed to be

>>49996554
The ideological rift
between the polities wasn’t just about economics or
who’s in charge, it was about protecting the human
race from unregulated, runaway technologies, about
protecting us all from extinction. The hypercorps
were clearly more concerned about how to exploit
nanotech, biotech, and even AI for fiancial gain.
so, this ideological stuff, which you could see as right or wrong, but nothing referring to comparative research levels

'To the rest of the system, we’re backwards Luddites
because the vast majority of the Republic’s populace
lacks access to advanced nano- and biotechnology.
This isn’t strictly true, however, since we have access
to the same level of technology the rest of the system
is accustomed to, we just regulate and restrict it more
thoroughly. We are, as a rule, deeply conservative
in our outlook towards certain technologies'
This seems like the strongest quote so far regarding Jovian techno-comparability to the rest of the system, but it is subject to the logical analysis regarding the societal impact of regulation, restriction and techno-biological conservatism on research.

'So our approach is
to study technology carefully, test it thoroughly, put
safeguards in place, and only use it when it is safe to
do so'
auxiliary to the last quote

'Many of our people hold religious convictions...These Jovians personally reject many of
the technologies that are allowed, unwilling as they
are to commit a sin or transform themselves into an
abomination of nature.'
also auxiliary

'In practical terms, this means that certain technologies—advanced nanotech and biotech, AI, certain
weapon systems—are virtually impossible to fid
outside of the highest clearance military labs. Some
of this is considered even too dangerous to weaponize
and what little research there is focuses primarily on
defensive measures should it become a threat.'
this one's been pointed out and discussed

>>49987614
There are three things I want.

A greater representation of Jovians and how they compensate for the disadvantages they suffer vs everyone else (and, you know, a book that isn't shitting on them because hur dur muh conservatards).

An X-COM game involving EXALT as the main protagonists, post x-com 2 or something as they grab frantically for power. Or, you know, starting from pre-original invasion and covering the entire timeline.

A game where you're Ozma set in the eclipse phase universe. Similar to missionforce cyberstorm, maybe - a single outpost answering to cold corporate masters.

>>49996514
>Rimward

We should also remember that most stuff is explicitly written from an in-universe perspective, which means that everything should be taken with a pinch of salt.

For example, the entry on Jupiter in Rimward is largely written by a Researcher on Europa that is almost strangely critical of "the Junta", despite the fact that I can't imagine that that researcher could get to that position without being a Citizen.

>>49996589
'We know they took different lessons from the Fall than the rest of the
system, and these lessons have heavily informed
their security culture.
The fist thing you need to know is that yes, the
Jovians do have a mesh. It is heavily regulated, but
they do have one. However, you must be cautious in
using it. In order to gain access you must allow their
mesh protocols quite a bit of access to your own systems, and they are constantly monitoring your traffi for any red flgs such as prohibited information,
suspicious contacts, or the use of contraband programs. What defies a “contraband program?” Well,
just about anything not written and approved by
the Republic’s own codeslingers. My advice would
be to set up a dummy mesh account so as not to
arouse suspicion, but use a VPN darknet with your
own team members or any trusted contacts'
this might comfortable suggest Jovian cyber-security is advanced, but forefront is arguable.

the next passage about other aspects of cybersecurity seems to go back to the old characterisation
While this system serves the Jovians well in
information control, to minimize the spread of any
hostile infowar virus, and as a means of protecting
habitats from becoming infected if such an agent is
already loose, it does have certain easily exploitable
weaknesses. First, the fact that nearly everything
has to go through a central hub means that gaining access to this hub can give an agent tremendous
leverage, either to sniff the traffi themselves or to
bring it down and isolate the habitat. Additionally,
the Jovian reliance upon humans and not code as
the last line of security means that an agent skilled
in manipulation or interrogation can extract all sorts
of valuable security information simply by leaning
on the right people.;

>>49996554
>>49996589
>still expects people to read unformated blocks of text despite being told no the first time around

Why is it that there's always that one autist in ongoing general threads?

>>49996597
that particular in-universe line is written by a Jovian expat firewall agent.

'You may be surprised to hear that many technologies common elsewhere are indeed allowed, but
heavily restricted. This includes cornucopia machines,
resleeving, and a number of genetic enhancements.
These tools typically require high priced licenses or
special government dispensation, which generally
limit them to the wealthy, specialist labs, and highranking government and military offiials. These tech
privileges are usually laden with monitoring provisions, regular check-ups, and limited period renewal
clauses, to ensure that no one goes off the radar
with anything.'
'Licenses for certain
genetic enhancements and bio-mods—or even certain
morphs—are allowed if you can demonstrate a particular need for it (vacworkers, for example). Longevity
treatments are available for all, if expensive, though
our culture reveres death and considers it a dignifid
and natural end.'
more tech related info. Again, for me this just seems to emphasise they are not retarded when it comes to integrating future technologies, but are not a research powerhouse

'A strong public sentiment exists against resleeving.'
'Cortical stacks, backups, resleeving,
and even certain biomorphs are legal, however, if
licensed and restricted (showing that the Security
Council, above all, sees practical value in the technology). '

'The few resleeving facilities that exist are
subject to regular protests and vandalism, and in two
cases uploading technicians have been assassinated
by religious extremists that considered them to be
murderers. '
haha, it's like abortion clinics, get it?

'Few people wear non-standard morphs in
our habitats, and those that do are subject to reactions of distaste, fear, and occasionally even hatred.
Synthmorphs and pods are rare to nonexistent.
Uplifts, in any form, are seen as abominations; even
when allowed by the government, they can expect
overt hostility and prejudice'

>>49996591
>A greater representation of Jovians and how they compensate for the disadvantages they suffer vs everyone else (and, you know, a book that isn't shitting on them because hur dur muh conservatards).

Problem is that us getting that is about as likely as getting a book detailing the massive inherent corruption and inefficiencies of the Titanian Commonwealth's social-demoract doctrines and the plurality digital direct-democracy.

Given that it's entirely possible to fairly easily compile fact-dumps of factions, we should actually compile all available knowledge of given factions, and then rewrite them into being not-shit.

>>49996530
>your ship
You'd probably have more than one, and accept some loss of materials as part of the cost of this plan. It'd be probably safer to use somebody else's ship for this purpose, and cheaper too. After all, the difference between the Republic Navy and everyone else's shit is that everyone else can be compromised, right? The indentured fork on board, or the compromised ALI, can handle the running of the ship without getting involved.

>your bombs
This would be also be a bit of a loss, but not too bad; the trick would be to fire at a time that's sensible - either by creating distractions, or simply accepting that a particular run isn't going to be viable and trying again at a later date. You're presumably not in a hurry, and being a terrorist dickbag, you're likely to be the first person to fire.

>your habitat
Unless I'd be silly enough to basically paint a big ol' sign on the side of the ship that says "Anarkiddy Jonny Rotten 69 did this!", wouldn't it be quite difficult to track down who was responsible for even a failed attack? Given that Jonny Rotten 69 is the 68th fork of Jonny Rotten, and there's a whole bunch of them scattered around the solar system generally being dick-bags to all and sundry, what would it matter if you did track down the habitat that one of them was hiding in?

If Jonny Rotten 69 was a Grade-A dick-bag, and that's pretty likely given that he's a cunt at the best of times, he'd likely either try to paint some other group as being responsible to try and start an actual shooting war, or at the very least hide himself in a place where using those big ol' weapons is going to result in the casualties of a lot of people who belonged to polities that weren't involved.

>>49996628
>that particular in-universe line is written by a Jovian expat firewall agent.

I know. The Jovian Expat and the Researcher is responsible for the brunt of the writing across several books.

>>49996608
I was told to read them. I'm just relaying what I've found, you definitely don't need to read it. I myself would prefer EP threads are dominated by discourse surrounding the Jovians, but alas.
Also, you're definitely referring to a different person.


'Only the most limited and
locked-down AIs are allowed, and even those only
for situations where they are critical. While mesh
implants are standard (except among the most
devout), muses are unheard of'

'You are unlikely to suspect that Jovian medtech is
on par with the best found elsewhere in the system—
we do, after all, have a vested interest in keeping our
bodies alive, rather than just slipping into a new one.
Medical nanotech is allowed under the strict supervision of licensed professionals, who also excel at
non-nano health practices and surgical procedures.
Our exowombs, childcare facilities, and schools are
also top of the line, given the importance we place on
rebuilding our population and raising future generations.'
here's another possible quote regarding Jovian technological strengths

'They primarily
approach technology through the lens of the precautionary principle, meaning that something must
be proven non-harmful before it can be adopted
this would stop a lot of research

'ited applications, pending further evaluations.
CBEAT is continually under pressure from some of
the Republic’s home-grown corporations to approve
new technologies to release into the market, not to
mention certain foreign hypercorps that have received
a charter to operate in Jovian space.'
'Corporations that have gotten too pushy
have found their licenses revoked.'

'The fact that so many critical medical technologies
must run the twin gauntlets of the Church and CBEAT to
be considered safe for the population means that very
little of the newer procedures, treatments, and drugs make
it to the general populace

>>49996597
Most of the section was written by "Tio Silencio, Firewall Proxy and Traitor to the Republic" - the Europan gives the "Planetological Overview", but the section about the Jovian Republic is done by Tio.

>>49996542
Oh wow, I must of missed that, I guess they wanted their 'no fun allowed' and 'slavery 2.0' cakes without realising how badly that doesn't work
I guess the idea is uplifts and AGIs are forbidden from entering Jovian space, and those that are discovered are legally treated as property? Although frankly an AGI or an Uplift that's done to running away to the Republic has probably burned every last one of its bridges to get there, so I really don't see why the Jovians wouldn't extend them just enough legal personhood to extradite them

>>49996667
>this would stop a lot of research
Haha, oh wow. Yeah, it's safe to assume you're not only retarded enough to copy-paste unformated sections with random commentaries interspersed without regard for readability and expecting people to read it, but you've also got some form of reading/writing or comprehension disability.

>>49996667
'several of the nastier cancers are reaching epidemic levels.
Unfortunately, the best techniques for treating these cancers
remain on the banned list or are restricted to a handful of
licensed practitioners because they involve invasive nanotechnology. While our wealthier citizens have the political
clout and credit for a “vacation” to Titan or Extropia to fi
their health, the rest of our population lies at risk

'AGIs are strictly forbidden in Jovian space

'The most disturbing aspect of TAHI, however, is their
interest in the Watts-MacLeod strain. They’ve liberated
several of the core researchers that worked on the Futura
project and tasked them with fiuring out how the Lost
generation ended up with such a high rate of WattsMacLeod expression and whether these results are replicable or even possible to induce in a full-grown adult'
I can definitely see a forefront of something here, of all things.

'The flx tube produced by Io’s interaction with
Jupiter’s magnetosphere provides a perfect source
of power for the Republic’s antimatter facility there.
This factory is the primary source of antimatter for
the Space Force’s antimatter drives and is heavily
defended given its strategic value'

'I very
much fear, however, that the Security Council will
never fully understand what it is they are up against.
To us, the Titanians are a threat to our very way of life,
a cosmic threat to the order of the universe, and the
closest thing to the Devil most Jovians are ever likely
to encounter unless the TITANs come again. But to the
Titanians? We’re a minor irritant. A backwards collection of throwbacks barely managing to keep ourselves
alive in a universe that doesn’t care one way or another
about us. We barely register, and when we do it’s not
because they’re afraid of us, it’s because they worry
about our people and want to help.
you can certainly write this off as subjective, but it's something

That's the most explicit stuff I could find

>>49996734
you'll have to elaborate rather than making categorical claims
If, for instance, a health technology would never be approved for use by the general public (like the nearby quotes in the textbox from a doctor talking about the high cancer rates refers to) the incentive to develop those technologies is reduced; they are never going to get used or help anyone.

>>49996747
>you'll have to elaborate rather than making categorical claims

Nah, he won't, 'cause he can't.

>>49996646
>This would be also be a bit of a loss, but not too bad; the trick would be to fire at a time that's sensible - either by creating distractions, or simply accepting that a particular run isn't going to be viable and trying again at a later date. You're presumably not in a hurry, and being a terrorist dickbag, you're likely to be the first person to fire.
I think you don't understand the distances involved. Due to the size of Jupiter orbit you can't use energy weapons for such a run and kinetic weapons have other problem - dV / acceleration balance.

Missiles that have good acceleration have shitty dV and at top speed will need days-weeks to get to the target.

Fusion or antimatter based drives have great dV but they need weeks to get to top speed and their signatures flare so hard you can see them with closed eyes or through normal telescopes.

Your bombs can be shot down by a flat with a calculator. Because he will have all the time in the world to do it. And PD saturation doesn't work because attackers have less or much less resources than defenders.

Semi-relativistic kinetic-antimatter drones have a chance to work. But they cost a shitton in resources and you need tons of antimatter. They'll also will need to start far out beyond Jupiter orbit to get to top speed.

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>>49996697
>I guess the idea is uplifts and AGIs are forbidden from entering Jovian space, and those that are discovered are legally treated as property?

I honestly have no idea, because the sentence, much like the parts about cancer and septic habs, is complete nonsense in regards to other sections. This, however, appears to be the only time there's a contradiction *in the same sentence*.

I would expect AGI:s and Uplifts to be *practically* forbidden, unless legally sanctioned, at which point they'd be considered either wards of the state or considered corporate or private property.

Sorta like practically everything else that's potentially dangerous or morally dubious in the Jovian Republic.

But that's not what that sentence says, it's complete nonsense.

>>49997017
Was that sentence from the first book? Because the Republic was fucking awful in the first book, it wouldn't surprise me if they let the blatant contradiction through because it made the Jovians look worse. Either that or its one of those things where there are those things which are illegal, and those which are ILLEGAL, with the distinction decided by how much you contribute to the welfare of the Jovian State

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>>49996348
>I explained why I thought it was.
And you had it explained to you why you were wrong. There's an enormous difference between being at the technological forefront and being the singular pioneers of technology. It's not "a largely abstruse distinction".

>>49996475
Let's discuss why the Titanian Commonwealth is absolute shit and how a direct cyberdemocracy where people are rewarded for voting on principle, whether they know anything about the issue or not, is a horrible idea, and why an entire administration managed by AI:s is a horrifying prospect in a universe where runaway AI:s raped, abducted and murdered almost 10 billion people just yesterday.

>>49997051
Yeah, it's in the core rulebook, which is also the only objective section I've been able to find, that I can think of.

>>49997080
There's no such thing as an objective take on the Jovians, its either polluted by the authors all but explicit mission of making Jupiter the dumping ground for all the political ideologies they don't like, or its tainted by the same group of spergs who shit up these threads unironically declaring "JOVE STRONK"

>>49997073
>And you had it explained to you why you were wrong
you didn't really address why I thought the distinction was abstruse.
It's because either characterisation is equally unsupported by the text and both characterisations share significant semantic space (in particular, being at a forefront can easily imply primacy without other specification). Consider . To reject a claim on that distinction alone is flimsy.

>>49997051

Makes it really hit home just how much of an repressive and hypocritical shit hole the junta is.

>>49997073

Sounds great! Let's also talk about how some of the juntas obsolete rust buckets, crewed by barely trained conscripts, commanded by politically appointed yes-man armchair officers, committing outright space-piracy were sent running for the hills in an humiliating display of cowardice by the premiere military force in the setting.

Rimward p.93

Writing that was actually pretty fun, taking a sentence and then running off with it into a realm of crazy fanfiction. I can see now how these "JOVE STRONK" retards can keep soapboxing for an repressive, undemocratic, economically backwards, technologically regressive, borderline theocratic, military junta.

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>>49997343
>10 AF
>still supporting the Commonwealth.
>still spreading Titanian lies.

Also, you appear to be confusing the great Jovian Republic with the degenerate Planetary Consortium.

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>>49997589
>the great Jovian Republic

>>49991386

Not every Jovian thinks the same way, and the current dominant political stance in the Republic government is isolationism, i.e. "I don't care about the rest of the solar system". There are advocates of military expansion across Jupiter space, but wiping out transhumanity? Not really.

The Jovians that DO want to wipe out transhumanity are the Minerva Fleet.

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So is there anyone left in the thread who are neither "JOVIANS ARE GOOD GUYS REEEE" people, or shadowdragon forks who unironically believes the Jovian people are all evil space Nazis? Has anyone actually tried to make the Jovians more three-dimensional of a faction without going to one extreme or another with them?

I mean I know this is /epg/ and everything must be taken to the extreme, I'm just hoping for a miracle.

>>49996191
>antiproton beam
What a waste.

>>49997926
I'm just here to troll the juntafags. I guess I could retell my first time GMing.

>>49997926
A lot of transhumanists are either full body replacement or GTFO but I can imagine a Theseus faction that would argue that as long as the frame everything is attached to is biological and originally human one could undergo replacement surgery as many times as desired.

>>49997926
No one has ever actually fixed the Jovians because if there are too many civil posts about the Jovians at once, a shitposter will inevitably complain and derail the thread.

>>49998003
You're the cancer.

>>49997589
>Also, you appear to be confusing the repressive, undemocratic, economically backwards, technologically regressive, borderline theocratic, military junta with the degenerate Planetary Consortium.

While the victory of an alliance of democracy, freedom and brotherhood over the forces of inner-system oppression is inspiring reading, you missed the thing I was actually basing my statement on, here it is, in full:

>The only other major military engagement during the Fall was Operation Jotunhammar, Fleet’s operation to secure heavy metal supply lines from the Main Belt. Most of the fighting during Jotunhammar was against Jovian ships trying to jump claims rather than the TITANs.
Rimward pg.93

And that was two sentences instead of one, my bad.

As you can see my statement above is irrefutably supported by book sources and any attempt to contradict it is fanfiction.

Speaking of book sources, I will also assess that the Jovian Junta is an repressive, undemocratic, economically backwards, technologically regressive, borderline theocratic, military junta, irrefutably supported by book sources, despite being written in a in-universe perspective, detailed in post >>49995180

>>49997926
>I'm just hoping for a miracle.

Trolling aside, don't hold your breath. I would love to talk about my upcoming gatecrashing campaign, ask advice, get second opinion on the stuff I have planned but it would just get lost in the noise.

Not that I'm helping any.

>>49997926
I'm someone who doesn't care either way. My interest is more personal, and was already answered earlier in this thread.

>>49997926
I tried. Players were supposed to still work against them but Jovians were supposed to be much less "lol Nazi" but still antagonists. You actually don't even need to remove or change much about them.

Cancer? Happens. There is constantly a line in hospitals for vacworkers that wait for treatment. Because number of facilities and personnel authorized to use certain technologies is just enough to support them. Sometimes accidents happen. Not the most fun part of vacwork.

Paranoid? You can bet on it. But paranoia has perfectly valid reasons in setting. They may take it a little too far but most Jovians feel that it is varranted and only grumble about it. Even if some procedures are used in jokes all over the Solar system.

Trigger happy? True too to a certain extent. Jovians mostly work with policy of 'one warning'. You don't follow the instructions? Too bad for you. One of the NPCs was a spaceship captain that ordered a destruction of civilian ship after it refused to change course during gravity assist around Jupiter.

>>49997997
Compared to antimatter drives or antimatter torpedoes? No. It's much more sensible.

>>49998026
.....Yeah, actually, that's more or less how it goes. I remember a few attempts to fix the Jovians, or suggestions of how to tone down the author bias into a regime that is pretty awful without being cartoonish about it, but they inevitably get shat on either by someone who believes the Jovians are irredeemable or get shut down by someone who unironically thinks the Jovians as presented are the good guys of the setting
>>49997926
Personally, I think its fine to have the Republic as a crap but safe place to live. Tech and society wise the Jovians seem to have actively regressed to a cyberpunk level as compared to the rest of EP's post-cyberpunk nature. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff that can be done with them in that place

>>49998056
>Alternative settings aren't allowed. RRRREEEEEEEEEEE
Also cancer.

>>49998051
We're all cancer here

>>49998110
At least I'm a benign tumor.

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>>49998128