Hi all. Anyone got any good alignment charts?

>>49987035
I'm more interested in alignment charts that are different from the law-chaos good-evil.

The only dynamics that I've though of though are justice-forgiveness and religious-spiritualist.

>>49987436
>justice-forgiveness
That's assuming that justice is unforgiving. What if you consider mercy to be justice?
It should be strictness versus leniency.

>>49987475
justice and mercy are two seperate things. Typically you need a middle man to satisfy the demand for justice and grant mercy to the party pleading for it.

>>49987501
>justice
Justice is an empty phrase until you fill it with something.
To a medieval person justice is very different than to a modern American which is again (slightly) different to a northern European's justice.
Define it first, use it after.

>>49987475
The same could be said about good and evil. To some killing a murderer is evil but others would say letting him go is evil. For the sake of alignments you have to simplify your thinking to a more black and white form.

>>49987569
Justice is balance, you kill some one, you get killed. You steal, you get your shit taken away.

If you've played soul sacrifice that's a good example of justice vs forgiveness. Most notably would you kill all criminals, knowing that 50% of them will kill again or would you let all of them live with the knowledge that half of them will never commit another murder.

>>49987666
>Justice is balance,
To you.
I disagree, and I find it odd that you'd consider it a generally accepted view at all.

>>49987584
Good and evil are forces that you can measure, etc etc...

>>49987035
Jesus christ, that scruffy hooligan. Never again.

>>49987698
Holy, shit I've never had a conversation with a more autistic person. All alignment charts are bullshit because there is no universal idea of good or evil. In any normal stable modern society, the "justice system" is a punishment system. So if you want to sperg out about it then consider justice as punishment.

>>49987802
In D&D yes, and I have no problem with that as a game mechanic or way to map a character behavioral patterns. I just don't understand why this guy(possible multiple people. I don't know) is so obsessed with the relativity of the definition of justice, when the original is just as relative. For the sake of a substitute, which is what I original wanted to discuss, it works just as well.

>>49987783
>CN
>I'm Lawful Evil
Priceless.

>>49987898
> In any normal stable modern society, the "justice system" is a punishment system.

No, absolutely not. You need to educate yourself. In almost every developed European country, the justice system is a rehab system. Not a "justice" driven by the victim's will. That's why death penalty doesn't exist anymore in civilized countries.

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This one requires some thought.

>>49987569
anon you originally replied to
I see justice as a rather finite thing that has to arise with civilization. You take out a loan and sign a contract. Justice would be the loaner receiving his money, wether he must take all your possessions till h regained his value, or have the government repay him after throwing you in jail. Either way he must have justice for you breaking a contract.

That is what I see justice as

>>49988307
I should add on that in this sense I feel there is little difference from justice for medieval to modern societies. how exactly you achieve justice is different.

>>49987035
dnd alignment is shit and people who take it first and then write their character around it are stupid and shitty roleplayers.

>>49988148
>The United States
>China
>India
>Japan
>South Korea

None of these countries are civilized according to you. Forgive me if I don't ignore all of your retarded opinions.

If I can give you some advice it would be to go to amazon, buy a tank of helium and proceed to inhale the entirety of it.

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>>49988288
Oh Lord I'm giggling

>>49988384
South Korea is apparently run by a shadow government and some insane shit so I would say it isn't civilized.

Seriously, look up the news of what is actually happening in South Korea.

>>49988384
China and India definitely aren't countries where the Human rights are the best. That you have to put the USA next to them raises questions indeed.

>>49987436
>justice-forgiveness and religious-spiritualist
I don't think either of these are really opposites of each other, or form a spectrum. They're both just pairs of not-necessarily-related ideals.

>>49988384
I think the only country on that list where you can get at least 90% of the people to agree it's fully civilized is Japan.

>>49988430
And even then, Japan society still is batshit insane on certain levels like dedication to your job and suicide rates.

>>49988384
The U.S. justice system is sort of a mix between punishment and rehabilitation. To the point where it's a bit of a soggy mess and it doesn't really do either.

>>49988468
Civilized doesn't mean good.
There is a reason why Japan has such huge suicide numbers.

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>>49988404
USA has a Great Justice System, If you're Rich.

If you're poor it's another bullshit tax, and punishment system looking to just dick your day over.

>>49988468
>>49988430
>>49988404
Cool, lets look at all the civilized countries that don't have the death penalty.

South America
Brazil
Venezuela
Uruguay
France
Greece

>>49988534
Sorry, meant South Africa

>>49988519
China has great justice system if you're in good graces with the Party.
India has great justice system if you're of the best caste.

>>49987898
You're retarded. Justice is a word that has connotations depending on culture, as is mercy.

What he proposed, the strictness versus leniency thing, was a very good way of avoiding the semantic argument you're currently losing.

>>49988534
Also, the countries leading the list of happiest nations on Earth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

>>49988488
Civilized can mean a lot of things.

Let's consider something we can put a number on. For example, the HDI. Out of the first ten countries on the list, the USA is the only one where death penalty is still legal.

Actually the European Union even forbids the transfer of prisoners if that means they risk the death penalty.

>>49988587
Well if you say I'm losing then holy fuck I guess I lost, damn it.

Also I'm not arguing semantics, that autist is arguing semantics, maybe that's why I'm "losing" because I'm not trying to argue that Justice means one defined thing in all cases. Also, strictness versus leniency, what the fuck does that mean, strict about what, everything? lenient on what, the amount of spices you put in your cooking that wasn't in the recipe. If I'm retarded then you must be full on brain dead.

>>49988680
>Let's consider something we can put a number on. For example, the HDI. Out of the first ten countries on the list, the USA is the only one where death penalty is still legal.
yes but that is because not every state made it illegal.

Personally I don't see why taxpayers should be giving sustenance to someone who wont contribute to society after breaking the laws of society. I would prefer more labor based prisons, but sadly that would get people crying slavery.

>>49988629
Happy doesn't mean civilized, monkeys can be happy but you wouldn't call them civilized.

>>49988571
So we agree, justice is simple the system most politer societies use to oppress the undesirables, while keeping a straight face, smiling, and acting like it's their fault.

>>49988749
>I would prefer more labor based prisons,
America has a problem of too many prisoners, not useless prisoners.
The entire world has a problem of overproduction, not lack of labor.
Having your prisoners work would ruin your economy.

>>49988749
Part of the goal of trying to rehab them is so they contribute to society again.
Also you know, that whole "they're human beings like you and me" stuff.

>>49988750
Have you taken a look what they measure happiness by?

>>49988534
Not anyone you replied to, but going from counties that use their justice system for punishment to countries that don't have the death penalty seems like your grasping at straws here. But as I've started to reply, let's play your game

Countries with the death penalty:
USA
North Korea
China
Saudi Arabia
UAE
Iran
Zimbabwe

As you can see, I too can quote some countries from a list I found and give them no real context to support my argument.

>>49988477
Well honestly you need both. Without punishment there's no reason beyond morals not to kill people, which gives way to opportunities for vigilante justice, which means paediatricians get their houses burned down.

>>49988875
Canada.


...

Ok, well, not, like, usually. I think someone would have to engage in high-treason for something like that. I believe the law is still there, but, as with most Canadian laws (including our concubinage laws), they're old, moldering, and nobody can really do anything with them.

(Execution by hanging, I should clarify)

>>49988749
>Personally I don't see why taxpayers should be giving sustenance to someone who wont contribute to society after breaking the laws of society

Well if you're referring to cases of murder etc then I agree on a moral standpoint, but I would also point out that it is very very hard to bring someone back to life when it turns out they were innocent all along. At least you can release a false convict.

If you mean "DEATH PENALTY FOR EVERYTHING" then... Yeah, no. You might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb.

>>49988875
I'm sorry if you felt that way, my argument wasn't suppose to be a big thing, I was just trying to make a point that saying a culture is uncivilized because it has the death penalty is stupid and close minded to other variables. I wasn't trying to say anything else about it. Also I wasn't the guy that said justice systems are for punishment.

>>49988970
The thing is, your argument is really bad, because it doesn't disprove anything.
It's just a "bad by association" thing.
When I say "life cannot be without water", your pointing at Europa and saying it's devoid of water therefore life and water are completely independent would be fucking stupid.

>>49989004
>devoid of water
*devoid of life

>>49988932
Yeah, that sounds like a hold over from when they were a colony, you can still technical be hung for treason in the UK as well, but the last execution in the UK was in 1964, so I can't see it coming back.

>>49988970
Ah okay then, I apologies for thinking you where the same person.

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I don't entirely agree with this one. Lincoln didn't give 2 fucks about slavery until it would help the war effort, and he suspended habeas corpus. Ghandi also perpetrated the caste system so fuck him.

>>49988932
But if you kill your enemies, they win.

>>49989040
>Che
>not Evil
Remember, kids, not every terrorist is Muslim.

>>49989068
Definition of a terrorist really depends on who win the war at the end.

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>>49989068
Fuck commies, they always make people believe their cause for the common man until they're rounding up and massacring those common men for disagreeing at all with them.

>>49989052
Accccck Trudeau

I like him better than Harper, but that one quote has so much bitch in it that it makes me cringe

>>49989036
Well, not many people engage in high-treason anymore. I think someone would actually have to try to take a shot at the whole Royal Family in order to be charged with it, even in Canada.

In Canada's case, like...being separate from Britain (mostly), I can't see how anyone could attempt to use it.

>>49989040
>also perpetrated the caste system so fuck him.

having Castes isn't inherently evil. Heck, very little is, even slavery. Though that last bit seems to anger Americans quite a bit. Idk, after looking at the history of slavery, the kinds of slavery, the why and how of slavery, I've come to view it less as an evil and more of a "not very viable anymore" kind of thing.

>>49989004
I'm not saying not having a death penalty is bad or that having one is good. I was just trying to point out that there are civilized and uncivilized countries in both categories. The comparison of water and life isn't very good because the capital punishment or the lack of it, doesn't make civilization impossible. Where a lack of a source of water does in fact make living there impossible. Also way to call me fucking stupid for an argument that I didn't even make, jerk.

>>49989154
>In Canada's case, like...being separate from Britain (mostly), I can't see how anyone could attempt to use it.
They do still acknowledge the queen, so it's basically the same thing.

>>49989154
>Be born
>Forced into slavery despite never committing a crime

That's evil, then again niggers weren't considered people before so it's just animal husbandry to them.

>>49989040
>Lincoln
>Lawful Good

While I disagree with the good part I can understand the argument for it, but saying he's lawful is just wrong. He ignored the constitution and refused to take the case of whether or not secession is constitutional and instead just provoked a war with them

>>49989222
>All slavery is the same

>>49989195
We do, yeah, buuuuuuuuuuut...

...Well, like I said, idk. I guess someone could be treasonous to Canada and they'd just lock them away, but if they took a shot at the Queen on Canadian soil, maybe they could get them that way

Still, all speculation on my part.

>>49989154
I'd like you to tell more about your view of slavery.

Especially if you have a rebuttal to what >>49989222 said.

>>49989356
>I'd like you to tell more about your view of slavery.

I would but...you know, shitstorm. In any case, I'd be speaking as an outsider: I'm not American, and Americans are touchy about slavery.

>>49989438
I'm not american either, and you're anonymous. Come on. What's the worst that could happen ?

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Contributing

>>49989476
I'm the same guy as >>49989488
Well, I don't want to derail too bad

aw geez, my Canadian is showing

>>49989068
the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is all in perspective.

>>49989551
"They're only terrorists until they win- then they're just rebels"

>>49989500
Don't be a pussy

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>>49988519
If a Justice System only works for a certain group of people then there is no justice in the Justice System ergo it's a bad Justice System.

>>49987783
this is probably the best ive seen

>>49989748
The meta ones like >>49987783 and >>49989488 always are.

>>49989488
Good Tier
>LG
>TN

Decent Tier
>NG
>CG
>LE

Not Very Fun Tier
>LN
>NE

Go Kill Yourself Tier
>CN
>CE

>>49989878
Rance is a great example of orange-blue morality. The good/evil and lawful/chaotic dichotomy simply don't apply to him.

There's a problem with the new common conception of lawful good as presume who are just general do gooders, who will fight against tyranny by breaking the tyrants laws.

It's a valid interpretation of lawful good, but not the only valid interpretation. It is also possible to play a lawful good character as someone who sees the rule of law as the highest good.

Tyrants may be bad in the short term, but they create a structured society, and it is better to change things from within than fight things from without, because the chaos as a result of rebellion will lead to more suffering overall.

Whatever the cost, the law must be upheld, even bad laws, because the rule of law is the most valuable thing to society.

>>49989878
Surprizing that rape wasn't mentioned even once

>>49989592
fucking skelington shirt.

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>>49990094
I've seen that image a dozen times before and never noticed that. Thank you based anon.

>>49989313

>Marx
>Not evil

>>49990094
>>49990107
I don't get it

>>49990122
>122▶
>>>49990094
>>>49990107
>I don't get it

Loss.jpg

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>>49987035

>>49990109

I always feel like for this one we should either keep it the same or switch Freedom with mercenaries

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>>49990122
You must be new here.

>>49990109

This is arguably the best alignment chart out there

>>49990182
what is it?

>>49990433
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Some meme game from Eastern Europe that /v/ pretends is good

>>49989878
Like 8 of these quotes are invented by someone who never played the games.

>>49989913
Not really.

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>>49990455
>meme game
>/v/ pretends is good

I don't care that this is bait.
nigger what?

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Here's one that /tg/ collaborated on a few weeks ago.

In my opinion, arguably the most concise alignment chart available currently.

>>49990182

I think its becasue the devs probably Followed the alignment chart fully for each faction

someone post the classmates in college one

>>49990455
>redditor pretends to act like stalker is shit

>>49990455

d'awww, sounds like someone keeps getting buttfucked by Bloodsuckers.

Git Gud.

>>49990109

id like to know more then if apparently this chart is actually good

>>49990558
please someone spoonfeed me

I googled it but there's some fucking watermark on it and I'm on my phone so I can't edit it out.

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>>49990558
>tfw in Uni I was actually the Lawful Evil guy

>>49989609
lol

>>49990634

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
http://www.stalker-game.com/
http://stalker.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://cop.zsg.dk/Modifications_Weapons.php

(Use the sidebar to navigate that last one - the maps are a fucking godsend)

>>49990159
Switch Freedom with Mercenaries? The Mercenaries are plain evil what are you talking about? Freedom are just a bunch of pot smoking hippies who don't give a fuck about the rules, even by Zone standards.

>>49988587
well no, justice is not strictness, and justice does have a strong component of balance, or making things right. Justice is not strictness , and it is more related to a sense of fairness.Strictness vs leniency could be related to how strictly you execute your form of justice.
If 2 people perform the same task and you reward one but not the other you have acted unjustly because you have been unfair.

>>49989555
>>Sisko
>>not Chaotic Evil

>>49990864

So from what im getting its basically a revision of A Roadside Picnic but with factions and experiments going wrong in Chernobyl?

>>49991151

Pretty much. You'll notice some things that are straight taken from Roadside Picnic (Full Empties are called Shells here), but most of it is fairly original.

Also 100% more Cheeki Breeki

>>49988400

뭐라고? 너 죽을래?

>>49990809
CG > NG > TN > everyone else

>>49991150
Did. Nothing. Wrong.

>>49991326
>>responsible for the murder of a Romulan senator
>>instigated war with a neutral power
>>used biogenic weapons in a personal vendetta
>>regularly racist to Ferengi, even one as nice as Rom
dindu nuffin man

>>49987450
I liked Rorschach, he was a paranoid psycho but he was right. He was the most interesting character of the bunch.

>>49988400
gib links

>>49991414
>muh scorched earth is bad
>muh real politik is bad
>muh Ferengi are people
Best captain N/A

posting best scene because I feel like it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-YyL7X4CWw

>>49991827
Sisko was a war criminal who didn't get arrested because WE WUZ OF BAJOR space magic.

>>49990122
What a terrible loss

>>49992422
One man't war criminal is another man's anti-hero who was prepared to do whatever it takes.

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>>49989773
I agree.

>>49988288
Explain for a dummy?

>>49992483
A war criminal is still a war criminal.

>>49992534
Not when people like him enough.

>>49989313
>TFW when you're ironically "lawful evil"
Feels good man

>>49990809
TN is literally me. all my classes are boring as fuck this semester

>>49990809
>taking 3rd year mechanics of solids class
>90% of the class is completely lost
>the 10% that actually get it are me and a few FOB asians who never speak
>people constantly ask me for help
>tell them I can help them later
>they just want to copy my homework
>tell them no
>they hate me for the rest of the semester

Being LG is suffered.

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Izzet doesn't get a slot because it fits into way more categories than the others, and also I'm horribly lazy and don't want to try and find somewhere for it to go.

>>49992646

You should help them if you teach people how to do it then it helps you believe more in your own skills

>>49992665
>tell them I can help them later
>they just want to copy my homework

I tried to offer it, they didn't want me to show them after class, they just wanted to copy my assignments. Not saying that everyone turned me down, a couple did accept my offer, but most people just wanted to cheat.

>>49992646
I've been there, you can help some but damn, I'm paying to take this class and I don't have time to tutor people for free.

>>49992663
>any of the guilds
>good

>>49992706
Compared to other guilds, some are "gooder" than others.

>>49992706

oi, what are you on about mate, Boros and Azorious are both clearly good. Get out you filthy edgy Rakdos cunt

>>49992690
>I don't have time to tutor people for free.
Bro, tutoring is the easiest way to meet cute girls in college.
>get to spend 1 on 1 time with them
>they feel super grateful for the help
>you get to demonstrate how good you are at something

I asked a few of the girls I tutored out, two even said yes. Got two alright dates and an unenthusaistic handjob out of it.

>>49992746
>Boros and Azorious are both clearly good
They both clearly think that they are good. The keyword is think.

>>49992746
Anon, look me in the eye and tell me that Aurelia is good.

>>49990809

Clearly i am not lawful good if i only do it for Qts and bro's, nevertheless i do provide service to a select few and am generally willing to help anyone as long as it doesn't put me out to much. Where do i fall tg?

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>>49992752
>Bro, tutoring is the easiest way to meet cute girls in college.

Already got a qt3.14 Azn girlfriend friendo of several years anon, I've got no need for more girls.

>>49992785

You seem to be under the impression we should care what happens to criminal scum. This is a flawed social construct that serves only to protect the guilty.

>>49991825
Not him but
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2016/10/116_216623.html

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3025312&cloc=etc%7Cjad%7Cgooglenews

http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/767646.html

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10/25/south-korea-leader-acknowledges-ties-to-woman-in-scandal.html

>>49992770

If we are to have this discusion we must first establish criterion for goodness, so that we can be sure we are on the same page. Likely we will discover that our concepts of good difer, at which point we will be able to attempt to create a criterion which is mutually acceptable and determine whether or not they are in fact 'good'. I'm down if you are.

>>49992838
You don't even care about what happens to your ALLIES.
Feather is Razia's heir, not Aurelia.

>>49992884

Have you ever heard of the concept of necessary sacrifice? That a commander must be willing to spend lives to achieve victory? The needs of the many out way the needs of the few? Do any of these concepts ring any bells anon? I understand that they may be repugnant, but the fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as a bloodless victory in war.

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>>49990524
>tfw someone liked my thread enough to save the image
I should do another thread like that one of these days.

>>49992534
You sound like a southerner
>>Sherman was right

>>49989154
>I like him better than Harper
Fucking commie

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>>49989052
>>49989154

>>49992497

I like this chart. I don't agree with all of the character choices therein, but i like the sentiment.

>>49993106
Joke all you want. You have to deal with either an immature delusional psychopath or a corrupt mass murderer in a couple weeks.

>>49989040
Hitler is LG. He did what he did because he believed it was right, not for selfish gain.

>>49993130
At least Americans don't have to deal with Socialism.

My family fucking left the U.S.S.R. to get away from that. Then again if they were smart they would have known Canada would be one of the first western nations to fall to the bolsheviks.

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>>49993134
>This guy gets it

>>49993155

Friend if the criminal bitch gets in we WILL have to deal with it. We literally cannot win. We're fucked either way. Do any of you anons live in nations that are still sane? I may wish to immigrate if things continue to get worse.

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>>49993155
>democratic socialism is the same as communism

>>49993185
>>49993186
>Shillary "NEOLIB" Cunton
>socialist
What in the fuck is wrong with you retards?

>>49993186
Considering I've had people yell at me for not being "Politically correct," yeah, it's getting there.

>>49993191
I don't know about me, but I do know that reading comprehension is your problem since you included me along with him.

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>>49993198
>Communism was politically correct

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>>49990118
>Believing in morality
>MFW

>>49993205
You implied that Shillary is a democratic socialist you dumb nigger.

>>49993209
>He doesn't know about the Soviets inventing the Politically Correct doctrine

>>49991326
>Did nothing wrong
>Was in a war
Pick one

Seriously, anyone who’s seen real war can tell you that it too often boils down to choosing the least wrong option and praying it gives you less nightmares than if you had done something differently.
That said…

>>49991414
>>not confessing to being accessory to the murder of a Romulan senator (because doing so would lose a war, kill billions of innocents, and leave an entire quadrant under military oppression) is an act that would necessarily make someone Chaotic Evil regardless of whatever else they did.
>>I don’t understand politics or war
>>used biogenic weapons in response to a terrorist use of the same weapon, thereby creating a possible solution to the crisis caused by the terrorists, but I think he did it cause he was mad at one guy.
>>treating Ferengi like they’re Ferengi is racist.
Keep trying tiger.
I’m not saying Sisko isn’t the second darkest (heh) Star Trek captain we’ve had.
But that’s not enough to declare him Chaotic Evil.

>>49993214
I implied that Trudeau was

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>>49993186
>Implying they aren't both piles of flaming garbage

>>49993237
Trudeau is also a fucking neoliberal kike puppet you dumbass. That he's an SJW does not make him a socialist.

>>49992982
>>49990524
Oh yeah, I remember that.
I have to remember to do some drawfagging inspired by that thread when I get the chance.

>>49993214
But anon, she is.

>>49993251
>National Socialism

I don't even know man. I don't even know.

>>49993264
Shillary is a neoliberal globalist.

You are beyond retarded.

>>49993186

Never said it was the same. The anon asserted we didn't have to deal with socialism, my intent was to point out that we are progressing towards socialism and that the election of a corrupt liberal (this is not to say all liberals are corrupt, or that the left itself is evil, merely that she is corrupt) can only serve to bring us closer to it.

>>49993191

Rather than merely insult me, a pointless and futile exercise, you would be better served by providing a reasoned argument. Actually that applies to both of you really. What you said has no meaning, serves no purpose. It really doesn't do you any good. Prove your superiority through reason, do not attempt to prop yourselves up through pointless and meaningless ad hominum attacks.

>>49993270
>Implying National Socialism is close to Democratic Socialism, Socialism, or Leninism
If anything, it's kind of close to National Bolshevism, or Stalinism.

Stop arguing you morons and post alignment charts

>>49993286
You have no idea what socialism is you bluepilled basic bitch.

>>49989592
FUCKING

L O S S
O
S
S

>>49993294
But politics!

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>>49993279
>TFW when it's not worth my time to prove your wrong.

Stay mad

>>49993277
Get this anime shit off my board

>>49993293
Does Communism not cover both Leninism, Socialism, Stalinism, and Bolshevism?

>>49993320
Please kill yourself. If you don't you're going to find yourself hanging from a streetlight.

>>49992663
I feel that boros is more lawful then selesnya, boros is a millitary order whereas selesynya just kinda go with the flow. Id say simic is chaotic good, Otherwise I agree with the placements,

>>49993363
Socialism is usually less Jingoistic than Communism, and Stalinism/National Bolshevism (Different from regular Bolshevism, really) are different enough from Leninism that it deserves mention.

>>49993377
I don't know, personally I thought Boros is a bit too "surprise police raid" to be lawful. I suppose any of those would work.

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No. Alignment is shit an a universally terrible game mechanic. it does not represent realistic human motivations in any way, shape, or form.

Alignments are shit for several reasons:

> Arguments over alignment which has no strict guidelines.
> DM penalizing characters for acting out of alignment
> entirely based on black and white morality
> Says nothing about what really motivates a character
> Mechanics based around it are confusing and shitty
> The "fixes" for alignments are often even shittier
> They limit roleplaying
> They discourage roleplaying
> They encourage roll playing
> They make everyone want to play evil characters so they have actual fucking freedom.

>>49993295

You continue to spout meaningless drivel and insults. If you are so much more intelligent and informed than i, prove it. Your insults are meaningless. I can say your grandmother was a goat-fucker, your father was an impotent sod, and your mother a whore. I can say that your a sexual deviant and a buffoon. But these are only words. They mean nothing. Where i to say this, it would not prove me right. Rather, in resorting to such base tactics i prove only that i am so incapable of formulating an arugement i must resort to foul language and insults. This is highly counterproductive and foolish. I again urge you to act in an intelligent manner and provide a reasoned argument, or cease. Prove me wrong anon, without resorting to insults and profanity. Prove yourself the better man.Learn to be civil with your fellow man.

>>49993402
>>49993363
You people are bewilderingly stupid.

>>49993436
Stupid and ignorant are totally different beasts. I'm ignorant as fuck about this stuff because I focused on STEM for way too long.

>>49993436

Insulting others does not prove your own intelligence. Explain why they are wrong, preferably in a civil manner, or remain quiet.

I'm at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, so I'm fucked no matter what happens.

>>49993377

Selesnya was really big into conformity though. Whole nature cult deal and all.

>>49993461
>china isn't real
>one plus two equals yellow
>the moon is actually a star

When someone is wrong by so much, it's kind of a waste of time

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>>49993425
Stay strong anon.

>>49992706
Boros is the goodest good there is

>>49993449
>>49993461
First, pedantic concern: socialism and communism are not proper nouns.

Second, socialism and communism are not particularly distinct. Socialism is an economic idea that believes in seizing the means of production from the capitalist class. Communism is a theory of history that predicts that this will lead to a utopian post-scarcity society, and as a political ideology it means using the means of socialism to achieve that end specifically.

In contrast, there are non-communistic socialists who don't believe in any utopian end or subscribe to a Marxist theory of history, and may see the seizing of production as a desirable goal in itself, or to satisfy a more mundane concern like creating more equal distribution of wealth.

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>>49987898
>Holy, shit I've never had a conversation with a more autistic person.

Anon if fucking Plato wrote an entire dialogue trying to find the meaning of justice (hint, he rules out "eye for an eye" pretty quick) does it occur to you it's not as cut and dry as you think?

And no, justice =/= punishment even in our society. If you call someone a just man you're not talking about the hangman who punishes people, you're not necessarily talking about the judge who assigned the punishment. You're talking a man who behaves justly. You would call the man not being punished the just man and the man being punished the unjust man, so then the question follows, why isn't he being punished and why is the unjust man being punished? Because the unjust man broke the law? Have you never considered a law unjust? What if the law said "Fred can kill anyone he likes without punishment"? Is that just?

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>>49992663
>boros
>chaotic

>>49993478

This statement is filled with logical fallacies.

First, much of your argument is predicated on the fallacy of assuming the high ground (Yes this is in fact a logical fallacy. Attempting to win an argument based on assertions of superiority is a fallacy)

Second, you are attempting to prove your argument by using extreme examples to establish a false equivalence. This is a logical fallacy. The "examples" you provided in the green text are not equivalent to the statements you are comparing them to. You are attempting to win by drawing a false comparison. Furthermore your "evidence" is fabricated. It has no basis in reality. You made it up. At no point in this thread did anyone say one plus two equals yellow, or that the moon is a star. You are committing logical fallacy.

I can only assume that you are incapable or unwilling to provide a reasoned argument, as you continue to fail to do so. Instead you persist in pointless attacks.

>>49993632
>muh logical fallacies
Not an argument.

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>>49993645

Neither was your useless post here >>49993478

>>49993660
Not me, faggot. I just wanted to point out how much of a fucking idiot you sound like whining about adhom and logical fallacies.

>>49993676

I'm not him, faggot, I just want to point out that if you're proud of your shitty, flawed logic maybe consider doing something other than getting into a debate with somebody.

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>>49993632

>>49993511

Thank you anon. For being civil and providing evidence rather than merely spouting hatred.

Am i then correct in saying that Hillary cannot be considered a socialist, because she does not wish to redistribute the means of production?

In which case i wish to ask, under what category does the redistribution of wealth, and the avocation of expansion of welfare programs fall? I had been lead to believe that increased taxes to pay for social welfare programs was associated with socialist groups. If this is not the case, what may it be called properly?

>>49993696

Nice, pointless, but nice. Congratulations anon you can use Microsoft paint.

>>49993700
Yes, Shilldog is not a socialist in any sense.

Redistribution of wealth has nothing to do with socialism. Welfare and similar social programs are capitalist ideas aimed at maintaining the economic status quo.

>>49993700
If socialist programs are seen as one tool out of many to achieve a goal that is in itself unrelated to socialism, then it is incorrect to call someone a socialist just because they support a socialist program.

It's hard to discern Hillary's political motives because she's changed so much through the years. She might have been a socialist in the 90s.

>>49989040
>Lincoln LG.
Dude was in the best possible world LN, bordering on LE. Totally content to bully states in order to prevent the merry little house dividing.
>Che not being Evil.
K.

Only way this could have been worse was if MLK jr. was LG.

>>49993645
>>49993676

I am >>49993632. Could you please explain, in a reasoned argument, why i sound like an idiot? I mean i understand that that is your opinion, but all you have done is assert your opinion without any evidence. Why do you believe that pointing out the flaws in his statement was unreasonable? His statement was deeply and fundamentally flawed. Rather than just call him an idiot, i explained why his statement was flawed. This does not seem an unintelligent act, though perhaps i am biased. Prove me to be wrong, explain why my post was not a valid refutation of his flawed argument.

>>49992663
>No Izzet
intothetrashitgoes.gif

>>49993739
>>49993800

Thank you anons. It is good to find reasonable individuals who are willing to participate in a dialogue.

>>49993857
Chaotic SCIENCE! didn't fit on the grid.

>>49992497
I had to google what the True Neutral character is from

What the fuck is up with that series?

>>49993120
Thanks.
I'm curious as to what characters you disagreed with, bearing in mind that none of the characters are chosen to be ideal representations of their alignment, but of the kind of aligned character that could work with other alignments.

>>49993906
>What the fuck is up with that series?
Insanity, overt sexuality with far too little nudity, fun with sci-fi tropes, undead assassin, Free willed sex slave with lizard dna, lovesick android head, and a below average schmuck captaining a giant bug spaceship that can destroy planets and has the intelligence of a dog.
And that's not even mentioning the best girl who is a man-eating plant.
Did that answer your question?

>>49994019

I feel that Dexter, and Han Solo are not very good choices for those alignments. I'm a little iffy on Spike and Jayne as well, but they i understand.

>>49989040

>Che
>Chaotic Neutral
>Quote is obviously heroic as fuck whether you agree with him or not and at the least is lawful because he's willing to die for his ideals.

>Patton
>Good
>On a Political Chart
>Didn't even involve himself in politics basically.

>Gandhi
>Neutral
>One of the most partisan motherfuckers in political history.

>Darwin
>On a FUCKING POLITICAL chart

>Stalin
>Somehow less lawful than Hitler???

>Not using a real person for CE when that's one of the most important ones to get right on a chart like this.

0/10 see me after class

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>>49992924
Is that your excuse for treating your commander and compatriots like dirt? for falling to the temptations of tyranny? For thinking yourself so high that no other could do your job better?

You are a rash girl playing at soldier - a grunt who thinks herself a commander. Your see your men as being expendable as an arrow. You see your superiors as lesser than you, regardless of their experience. You see the citizens you have been charged to protect as criminals who have yet to commit a crime.

In short, you are the fiery horse that spurs the chariot that is the Boros over a cliff. To the Nephalem with you, pretender!

>>49994037
Thanks for replying. I'm always curious what people think.

>I feel that Dexter, and Han Solo are not very good choices for those alignments. I'm a little iffy on Spike and Jayne as well, but they i understand.
Spike is from the specific period in which that quote came from, where he was chipped and I consider pretty solidly NE. Other times, less so.
Jayne’s reasons are pretty well summed up in his quote. He’s CE but not *that* CE. Which is kind of the point. A Reaver would be more CE, but couldn’t work with a mixed group.

I’ve gotten disagreements regarding Han Solo before, but I think he is definitely Chaotic and ultimately Good. But again, he’s not *that* good. He could work with and for murderous criminals, but at the same time couldn’t leave to save his skin while Luke and the rebels fight without him. At the beginning of the A New Hope, he doesn’t display much goodness, but he’s a smuggler in desperate need for money, so that’s understandable. I think it's more likely that he was slightly good the entire time and didn't have to prove it until it came to final choice rather than he suddenly became good due to the power of friendship or whatever.

A lot of people disagree with Dexter, but he is arguably the best for this chart. He is definitely Lawfully devoted to his code (despite failing at it sometimes) and his morality is questionable. He kills only the evil, but he does so for personal need, not any sense of good. He is not clearly good or clearly evil.
What makes him the best fit for the chart is that he has worked with all alignments equally as well, all in the pursuit of his code.

>>49989677
Is that that advanced wars game? It looks like it but i only played a little of it

>>49994600
Yes. And the best one.

All this political discussion should have a home of its own. Maybe we should have a new board for it.

>>49994805
good taste mine companion \m/

>>49994805
>Varg
>evil

>>49989803
Have you considered >>>/reddit/? It seems more appropriate for a user of your tastes and sensibilities.

>>49994946
>Unrepentent arsonist & murderer
>Not Evil

I don't want to hear it with the ebil christians suppressing muh pagan ideals abloobloobloo, Norway was Christian for a much longer time than it was pagan, you little cuck.

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>>49995073
Oh obviously, yeah, Varg's a bit of an edgy neopagan. That said, he's ascended and become a meme. Therefore, he has the divine mandate of KEK Almighty upon him, and the only appropriate alignment for him is CG or CN.

Praise KEK.

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>>49995073
christcuck kike shill detected

>>49987450
>Stupid Good
More like Sinister Evil with high charisma

>>49989697
this one is great

>>49993540
Not even that other Anon, but trying to define what "good" means is one of the primary drivers of human history. Alignment charts are inherently bullshit, it's fine. IT'S FINE.

>>49994946
he's still a likable and smart guy, especially his philosophy videos. bit silly sometimes, but still. if it wasnt for alestorm, i'd have made him be chaotic neutral tho

>>49995073
Go back to the fucking desert you disgusting kike

>>49987436
I drop the alignment grid and simply come up with a more strictly defined definition of good, evil, law, and chaos.

(Good is being willing to risk harm to yourself and your goals to help others, Evil is being willing to risk harm to others to help you and your goals).
(Law is living by strict principles, Chaos is Living moment to moment based on your feelings at the time).

Then, in theory I can add any other dimensions I want.

I could go:
>Freedom vs Responsibility
>Creative vs Analytical
>Aggressive vs Defensive
>Active vs Passive
>Dominant vs Submissive

Or whatever other axis you might want to use to brainstorm and define a character's personality.

>>49993277
FATE is such trash

>>49995589
That's not FATE, it's fate. There's a substantial difference, laddo.

>>49989677
The Mayor should be CE.

>>49993279
go back to /pol/

>>49995643
Agreed.

Fate, I like okay (except for the original FSN, that made my eyes and ears bleed).

FATE, I simply do not enjoy.

>>49987035

>I'm neutral, there's no way this chart can predict how I hold my smokes
>Unassuming Fellow is 100% correct

SON OF A BITCH

>>49995726
And apparently I'm Lawful Evil.

>>49995709
Go back to grade school.

>>49989721
what show is Lawful Neutral? I recognize all the others

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>>49987035

>>49989040
>Mr I give enemas to children
>Mr I believe the Jews should have let the Holocaust happen

Gandhi was an unimaginative retard and showman who didn't believe a fucking word of what he preached and just wanted power.

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>>49995987

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>>49995994

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>>49996001

>>49987666
that's not justice Satan, that's Aequitas

>>49987802
Nope. This is no more true in deendee than it is in real life. That some physical property is said to have moral weight does not actually mean that the framework emphasizing that is any more objective than any other scheme.

I could, for instance, declare that iron is a physical manifestation of evil while glucose is a physical manifestation of good, and therefore detect the level of evil and good in someone's body "objectively" in an even more exact way than detect alignment spells.

In fact these properties are intrinsically arbitrary and thus defined according to whatever values we assign them. Good and evil are primarily statements of preference, and in any case can never be genuinely objective.

>>49995989
Still an objectively better human being than you, anon.

>>49996134

You are, objectively, wrong. 'Good' and 'Evil' are physical qualities in Dungeons & Dragons, and have nothing to do with ethics.

>>49994805
varg is CN at worst.

>>49995073
>implying it wasn't self defence
>implying that destruction of state property related to the official institution of a religion is not a valid form of protest

>>49996247
'Good' and 'Evil' (aka iron and glucose) are physical qualities in real life, and have nothing to do with ethics.

You can claim whatever you like, so can your silly divine fanclubs, but what is good is only good according to a particular definition of good, and that definition is necessarily assigned extrinsically.

>>49996268

No, I mean, there are things called 'Good' and 'Evil' and they are literally defined, objective qualities within the DnD setting, and they have nothing to do with what is morally good or evil.

You fucking nimrod.

>>49996288
Yes, indeed, the 'Good' and 'Evil' of deendee are exactly like the iron and glucose of our world. Not connected to morality except where people decide to make the connection, because, again, there is no intrinsic moral quality to anything.

>>49996184
I never put anything up a kid's butt, so...

>>49996310
>All enemas are sexual
Alright, leaving that alone, remember this:
Gandhi never posted on 4chan.

>>49996332
enemas aren't good for you either

...so I never put anything up a kid's butt because of victorian pseudo-medicine either

>>49996302
>>49996268
I'm not the guy who missed the fairly clear iron and glucose analogy, but I just wanted to point out something.
In order to assert that there is no such thing as objective good or objective evil, one must first prove that there is no concept so good or so evil that literally every sane individual ever would agree it is good or evil.
Granted, you didn't exactly make that assertion, but you were close.

>>49996302

No shit. What's your point?

>>49987802 was literally just saying the exact same thing I'm saying. DnD Alignment has nothing to do with ethics and never has. Anyone who thinks it does is misapplying the system.

Also, justice is no more or less messy than any other ethical quality. This isn't complicated stuff, so the people who disagree with you [mostly] disagree for reasons that are not rational and thus cannot be debated, so continuously hammering away at your keys in measured discourse is getting you literally nowhere.

This is not to denigrate irrational action or faith; both are good and useful qualities that frequently have immensely positive effects, but they cannot be debated rationally, because they are using a value system divorced from logical progression. *THIS IS FINE*, but attempting to disprove one with the other is tantamount peeling an orange with clay.

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>>49996347
I forget, is eating eggs good or bad?
Just the whites?
Carbs are evil, right?
Gluten is bad?
Chemicals in shampoo is good though, right?
Is floride toothpaste okay?
Synthetic sweeteners?
Cell phone kept inches from your reproductive organs?

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>>49993080
>(You)

Whatever, I went to school with his cousin. Even his cousin thought he was a shitty, crappy leader.

Also he fucked my province. So fuck that useless wad

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>>49987035
Say something nice about the kind of player who plays each alignment.

>>49996375
>In order to assert that there is no such thing as objective good or objective evil, one must first prove that there is no concept so good or so evil that literally every sane individual ever would agree it is good or evil.
>sanity
>mattering
Sanity is a subjective quality itself, and as all moral judgements stem from extrinsic, assigned, and ultimately arbitrary values, all possible moral judgements are equally valid.


Further, objectivity is not universality - it could be that every person holds the same opinion about something, but so long as there is an alternative at all it is equally valid. Now, I don't believe there is such a thing, that would exist outside of the range of human opinion, but even if it should it is no less acceptable.

>>49996381
>DnD Alignment has nothing to do with ethics and never has. Anyone who thinks it does is misapplying the system.
If deendee's retarded alignment system has nothing to do with moral judgement, then it is truly pointless. Of course the reality is that it is fully intended to be used as an "objective morality", and what is claimed to be Evil is in fact supposed to be accepted as evil, usually with the handwave of "well it's fantasy and that's objective here", in spite of the obvious ontological violation that idea presents.

>>49989592
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brs6-uQMfGU

>>49996499

Initially, sure, it was just pure handwave. The advent of Planescape made the hardwired nature of these weird, pseudo-moralistic qualities into an actual setting element, and then it was engaging. At no other time has it been interesting.

>>49996566
deendee has never been interesting.

>>49996573

>SUBJECTIVITY
>except for my opinions about the quality of a game and/or setting, those are objective

>>49996581
My opinions are just that, sure, but that doesn't mean I will stop having them. Fuck deendee and fuck you.

>>49996587

Well, that was needlessly rude.

>>49996414
burden of proof motherfucker

you want to go around spraying salt water up little kids' buttholes, it's on you to prove you got some legitimate reason

>>49987666
Calm down Hammurrabi. It's been a while.

>>49994499
>He kills only the evil,
He has killed and framed several police officers.

>>49988963
I love that Red Son quote for Lawful Evil. Red Son is my favorite Superman Story.

>>49988148
Which proves his point - there is no universal thing what everyone means when they say "justice". In northern europe justice systems indeed are more crime solution systems, not vengeance for the victim systems.

>>49995579
>(Good is being willing to risk harm to yourself and your goals to help others, Evil is being willing to risk harm to others to help you and your goals).
A conqueror goes to great expense (armies are costly) and takes personal risk (he is on the battlefield after all) to increase the territory and wealth of his people. By your definition he is killing and enslaving innocents in the name of good.
At the same time, a doctor who tests a new medicine on informed volunteers because it is his life goal to beat cancer, is evil in your book.

>>49996499
>Sanity is a subjective quality itself
To a degree, certainly. But 2 plus 2 equals 4.
If someone believes that 2 plus 2 equals 5 or turnip, then that is different level of sanity.


>as all moral judgements stem from extrinsic, assigned, and ultimately arbitrary values, all possible moral judgements are equally valid.
All possible moral judgments are equally valid is a much more defensible position than “there is no such thing as good or evil.”

>Further, objectivity is not universality - it could be that every person holds the same opinion about something, but so long as there is an alternative at all it is equally valid.
Objective reality is not a matter of opinion.
It does not matter how many people have the opinion that when you add 2 plus 2 it equals 5.
It does not matter how many people have the opinion that radium is healthy for human consumption.
The opinion that a human being eating radium every day is not an equally valid alternative.

>Now, I don't believe there is such a thing, that would exist outside of the range of human opinion, but even if it should it is no less acceptable.
I did not quite parse this sentence.

>>49996595
Was there an absence of accepted value of the practice of enemas at the time?
Or are you asking for all people throughout time to provide proper scientific proof for the validity of any actions modern society deems questionable?

>>49996728
>If someone believes that 2 plus 2 equals 5 or turnip, then that is different level of sanity.
That's Hollywood insanity. Anon was probably speaking of actual psychological sanity.

>>49996764
I was making the distinction, because I can't rule out the existence of Hollywood insanity.
I've met those who act that insane, although it's possible they were just a mix of regular insane and evil.

>>49996728
>If someone believes that 2 plus 2 equals 5 or turnip, then that is different level of sanity.
That's not insanity, it's just being wrong. The insane necessarily believe things that are believable. Sanity is primarily a judgement against peers rather than any objective assessment of health - after all what separates the sane from the insane insofar as opinions are concerned is only a /difference/, not some substantive, genuine problem.

>All possible moral judgments are equally valid is a much more defensible position than “there is no such thing as good or evil.”
That's the position I hold and advocated.

See >>49996134
>Good and evil are primarily statements of preference, and in any case can never be genuinely objective.

>Objective reality is not a matter of opinion.
I disagree, I'm not a materialist, but that's not related to the point I was making. Moral judgements are not ever objective. What is good is only ever related to some "material property" by virtue of the moral judgement made by someone who is assigning that value to that property.

>I did not quite parse this sentence.
Basically, I do not believe that there is a form of moral judgement which absolutely no one would hold, but even if there was, that just clarifies its universality and has nothing to do with its validity or lack of objectivity.

>>49987783
>Wanting to stop alignment bullshit is evil

Somebody please burn >>49996784 at a stake.
She is clearly a witch and must not be allowed to corrupt the board with her unholy influence.

>>49996776
>That's not insanity, it's just being wrong. The insane necessarily believe things that are believable.
I don’t believe that’s true.

>Sanity is primarily a judgement against peers rather than any objective assessment of health - after all what separates the sane from the insane insofar as opinions are concerned is only a /difference/, not some substantive, genuine problem.
“Primarily” correct.

>Good and evil are primarily statements of preference
“Primarily” correct.

>and in any case can never be genuinely objective.
Unproven assertion.

>Objective reality is not a matter of opinion.
I disagree, I'm not a materialist, but that's not related to the point I was making.
Now I’m questioning *your* sanity.

>Moral judgements are not ever objective. What is good is only ever related to some "material property" by virtue of the moral judgement made by someone who is assigning that value to that property.
You cannot rule out the existence of an absolute extremes of the property of good or evil.

>Basically, I do not believe that there is a form of moral judgement which absolutely no one would hold, but even if there was, that just clarifies its universality and has nothing to do with its validity or lack of objectivity.
This makes more sense if you don’t believe that objective reality is not a matter of opinion.

What would you say if I told you that in my opinion, you just agreed to all of my points and conceded that you were mistaken?

>>49994162

NE isn't better than LE. Usually, it's worse. LE has principles and ideals they're brutally oppressing millions to uphold; NE has nothing but personal ambition.

>>49996855
>I don’t believe that’s true.
Thinking 2+2=5 is just a mathematical disability. It has nothing to do with real insanity.

>>49988932
>tfw ywn have a harem of cute Canadian concubines

There's no reason to go on living

>>49996901
>Thinking 2+2=5 is just a mathematical disability. It has nothing to do with real insanity.
The scenario presupposes an understanding of numbers.
If I hand you two apples, then hand you two more, and you count up five, believe you are holding five, and believe that's because two apples plus two apples means you have five apples, then that is a problem with reality.
If you believe 2 apples plus 2 apples equals turnip, that too is a problem with reality.

I am familiar with someone with ataxia that can't do basic math. They know the concepts fine, they just can't get from point A to point B.

>>49996830
>I don’t believe that’s true.
What is unbelievable necessarily cannot be believed. An insane person may have extraordinary beliefs, but it is simply impossible for them to have unbelievable beliefs.

>Unproven assertion.
No, it's proven by the nature of the topic at hand. What is good is defined extrinsically, therefore it is necessarily subjective. It may base itself on objectively observable properties or phenomena, but it is itself not objectively true, nor can it be.

>Now I’m questioning *your* sanity.
Oh fuck off with that. Materialism is far more preposterous.

>You cannot rule out the existence of an absolute extremes of the property of good or evil.
I can, and have. There is no absolute extreme because there isn't a dichotomy or dialectic or any other kind of scale. Moral judgements are equally arbitrary and subjective.

>What would you say if I told you that in my opinion, you just agreed to all of my points and conceded that you were mistaken?
That you've misunderstood me and/or that you're incorrect.

>>49997065
>What is unbelievable necessarily cannot be believed.
Yeah, I saw that hole after posted.
I was mainly replying to:
>That's not insanity, it's just being wrong
I believe that is untrue and that the insane can believe the impossible, which many would consider synonymous with unbelievable.

>I can, and have.
No, you've made assertions.
You have not proven that there is no concept so evil that everyone ever would consider it evil.

>That you've misunderstood me and/or that you're incorrect.
No, see, I understand perfectly and am correct. If objective reality is a matter of opinion, it is my opinion of reality that you are now changing topics to discussing fruit smoothies. It is a strange choice, and a bit off topic, but you are free to do so.

>>49989040
>ghandi
>good
Shiggy diggy tell that to the untouchables

>>49996452
>libertarian
>neutral
Anon, libertarian is textbook definition I give out for chaotic.

>Libertarianism: an extreme laissez-faire political philosophy advocating only minimal state intervention in the lives of citizens.

>"Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.

You know some weird libertarians, anon.

>>49997154
>You have not proven that there is no concept so evil that everyone ever would consider it evil.
There is no actual standard of "evil" by which you could gauge the relative "evilness" of a thing, so the idea that there is something "so evil that everyone agrees it's evil" is absurd. Furthermore, again, even if there was such a thing (and I strongly believe that there cannot be), it is not objectively evil, it is only universally considered to be evil.

>If objective reality is a matter of opinion,
What is is, but everything is, so the dichotomy of "real" and "unreal" is a heuristic one rather than an objective one. In other words, "objective" reality is a convenient delusion that is imposed on us. Reality is in actuality as real and significant as unreality.

>>49997249
>Libertarianism: an extreme laissez-faire political philosophy advocating only minimal state intervention in the lives of citizens.

minimal intervention is true neutrality

>>49996452
>Neutral good
>I vote libertarian
What?

>>49997262
That's why druids, protectors of the forest, are neutral, right?

>>49997262
Not that anon, but Neutral as an alignment isn't really the same as neutral in general. True Neutral describes a person who will do the right thing if it is of minimally greater or equal measure to the alternative (e.g. would try to be unbiased as a juror in a trial, but wouldn't go hunting for evidence to exhaust all evidence for the truth) and has moral values that can be bent based upon circumstances (e.g. lying is generally bad, but the crazy guy looking to murder your best friend can be lied to). Neutrality, outside of alignment, basically means impartiality and objectivity (e.g. the juror could be called neutral in this respect, but so could the evidence-hunter so long as he was not biased towards convicting or exonerating the accused).

>>49997248
I had no idea that Ghandi was in league with Al Capone.
Man, it sure is good to sit on our asses, look back on all these historical figures long thought great, and tear them down by examining their behavior through modern morality and social convention to feel superior.
It almost takes the edge off being a worthless, piece of shit human being wasting time on a Korean pictograph forum.
Did you know Shakespeare was totally illiterate and therefore worse than us, and not better?

>>49997348
Pretty sure "the Jews should have all killed themselves or offered themselves to the nazis" was a rather controversial opinion even back then.

>>49997257
>it is not objectively evil, it is only universally considered to be evil.
North and South are meaningless once we move away from Earth.
But if literally every being ever agrees, without conferring, that the North Star is universally considered the Direction of North, then how is it not objectively "North"?

>What is is, but everything is, so the dichotomy of "real" and "unreal" is a heuristic one rather than an objective one. In other words, "objective" reality is a convenient delusion that is imposed on us. Reality is in actuality as real and significant as unreality.
Each to their own, but personally if you're gonna go without berries, I prefer Orange Carrot to Cherry Mango.

>>49997427
>North and South are meaningless once we move away from Earth.
No, East and West are meaningless once we move away from Earth. North and South can still be used, though a magnetic compass wouldn't help you anymore.

>>49997439
>lawful neutral
>no capitalization, no punctuation
Nope.

>>49993277
Based Iskander

>>49997366
Exactly!
Let's not bother to examine his beliefs or question why he would have said that, Ghandi was a Nazi which means he's WAY worse than me!
Woohoo!
Did you know that since Mother Theresa was a much better Christian than she was a humanitarian, that means she's a horrible monster?
Fuck everyone in history!
I never owned a slave so I'm better than George Washington!
Bitchin'!

>>49997534
>Let's not bother to examine his beliefs or question why he would have said that
Sounds like you're the one who's doing that mate.
>In school I was taught that this person was nice, and they did some good things, so CLEARLY they are 100% pure and did nothing wrong

>>49994805
>Raubtier at lawful evil
>not chaotic good

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>>49997461
Space travel is fun.

>>49990130
this is a masterpiece

>>49994805
>Gloryhammer
Is it possible to be lawful if you give as few fucks as those guys? That being said, don't let anyone tell you that you have bad taste.

>>49993185
Just because you think what you do is right does not make it a good action

>>49997542
>>In school I was taught that this person was nice, and they did some good things, so CLEARLY they are 100% pure and did nothing wrong
He was a lawyer.
But, posthumously painting someone as evil because, if you look at it for one perspective(which was not theirs), their words or actions seem unkind isn't wisdom.

>He wants to cut a baby in half! He's a maniac!

>>49997427
>But if literally every being ever agrees, without conferring, that the North Star is universally considered the Direction of North, then how is it not objectively "North"?
North is north just as red is red, it is intrinsically defined. Good is good only according to a particular conception of good, it is extrinsically defined. In neither case does popular opinion affect the objectivity of either definition.

>>49997620
>North is north just as red is red
A location that is south to me could be north to you.
Where does Orange stop, Red begin, and Purple take over?

>>49997650
>A location that is south to me could be north to you.
The relativity of its utility does not impact the objectivity of its meaning.

>Where does Orange stop, Red begin, and Purple take over?
I'm sure that an art student could tell you, I'm not personally sure, but I can tell you that red, orange, and purple are distinct objects with distinct meanings.

>>49993134
Germanfag here.
Actually he did it to keep his job and immunity before the law.

>>49997610
>posthumously painting someone as evil [] isn't wisdom.
>painting
For some people we never head the chance to declare them evil while they were still alive, because they died too long ago for us.
For others, no one saying they are evil will be heard because the people are just too powerful and too popular and it takes a long time to separate fact from fiction to point out to the general population what was actually going on.

The same thing happens in both directions. Some people are demonized in their life-times and pardoned after. Some people go through periods of being demonized before being referred to as heroes for a while before being demonized again before being rediscovered as heroes before...
It's a natural process.

>>49997610
Hillary Clinton is also a lawyer and she's founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families organization. Guess she is Neutral Good and has never done anything wrong in her life. And if you try to bring up anything bad she's done then you're unwise because you don't know her perspective.

>>49997703
First, it doesn't matter, your nationality. Your opinion on history is not made more valid.

Second, that's an extremely stupid narrative.

>Hitler started WWII in order to keep his job

His "job" was the political leader of a nation, so I guess, yeah, in one sense he did it so he could keep his job, but he wanted the job in order to do something he believed was right, not for selfish purposes.

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>>49987035

>>49997855
The entire fascist column would need to be deleted. Communism, socialism and capitalism aren't really fascism compatible.
Anarcho capitalism would need to be renamed liberal capitalism.
Anarcho communism would need to be renamed communism.
Anarcho socialism is an impossibility.

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>>49997895
>communism and fascism isn't compatible
>what is the USSR

>>49996006
nice!
YV did nothing wrong tho