Holy shit Mortarion, take a fucking shower. What the fuck was

>>49986763
>One shall be the bestests
>Oneshall be the pretiest
>The loyalest
>The baldest
>The most horse-riding fast man
>Angriest
>I also want a bird
>Uh, paint one red?
>Fuck it one gonna stink anyways so mae it literal while at it.

>>49986763
I don't know, should've spend all our resources on mass-producing Castellax, Ursax and other Automata instead of Astartes, far less likely to ruin everything because of daddy issues.

I mean, the Emperor was just looking for robots to follow his objectively perfect grand-scheme, right? Should've come to the Magi instead of trusting his own, inefficient, miscategorised genechildren.

>>49986763

Please

>Wants an atheist Imperium
>MAKES FUCKING LORGAR

What really was the Emperor smoking? Cant even blame Lorgar for being a pussy, he was literally programmed this way.

>>49986947
Except part of his plan was to have speficially HUMANS follow his every order. Also battle-automata are crap - they'd have to be controlled and programmed by the Mechanicus, and we all know Kelbor Hal was SO very stable and loyal to the Emperor. And the Emperor hated AI and distrusted the AdMech, rightly so.

>>49986933
Sanguinus was the bestests though, not Horus.

>>49986947
>>49986992
>half of the Mechanicus turned to chaos during Heresy
>and that's not even considering why Dark Age of Technology was Dark

>>49986973

Lorgar's religiousness was a result of him being raised by zealots of Colhis, it was not imprinted into him. He was supposed to be the people person, which he pretty much was, in a fucked up arch heretical way.

Mortarion, Angron, pretty much the same thing without the charisma. What's the deal with making a psychotic madman like Curze is beyond me.

>>49987093
Curze was supposed to be a psychotic madman with a leash.

Also, I think Angron was actually also supposed to be a people person. All about brotherhood and the warrior fellowship.

>>49987093
Except zealousness was apparently hard-coded into Lorgar's brain. His legion was all zealots before they even met him.

>>49987093

Well Curze was also a product of his environment. He never had a warm loving family or clan or empire to raise him. He grew up in the sewers and killed his way to the top.

Why the Emperor tolerated Kurze... well he was the loyal monster. He struck fear into the hearts of the Emperor's enemies and was given tacit support.

Why else would the Night Lords be left for several years to do whatever the fuck they wanted despite other Primarchs being horrified?

Of the other traitor Primarchs, Kurze is strangely one of the few who could have been a loyalist.

>>49987039
Half the Space Marines turned, too, and most of the AdMech who were turned were either seduced or misguided by the traitor Primarchs themselves, in the end it was the Emperor's unstable genechildren who proved the greatest catalyst to the Heresy.

As for the Dark Age, that was going swell until the Men of Iron incident. Humanity was finally starting to see rebuilding, too, until the Warpstorms hit. Even after all of that is considered, it was the Dark Age that ultimately gave Humanity the power to stand against the stars.

>>49986763
That 3d artsyle will never cease to look completely horrible.

>Pertubo: Wants to build wonderful cities and monuments
>Dorn: Wants to build sick ass bunkers and fortresses

Great Emperor, you have a choice to send one to build up Terra into a golden throne world and the other to the Great Crusade to destroy the fortifications of your enemies.

Who do you choose?

>>49987093
>What's the deal with making a psychotic madman like Curze is beyond me.
History needs its butchers as well as its shepherds, anon. The Night Lords were a knife at the back of anyone who might betray the Emperor or who needed to be made an example of. It's just unfortunate that the psychotic mad butcher turned out to have principles and presience that broke his leash.

>>49986973
Emp should have given clear orders to Lorgar that he should only spread Imperial Truth around. Pretty sure he could have done that job with true fanaticism and made everyone believe truly that Imperial Truth is bestest.

Lorgar with proper guidance could have become the greatest Propagandaminister of all times, easily outdoing Göbbels.

>>49987144
If AdMech Magi would be the Warmaster, Chaos could also make him rebel against Emp.
It's not like 1/8 of the current AdMech woudn't sell their souls for the newest mechadong

>>49987185
Because that's the choice I want to make. Who would I rather have as the enticing face and voice of my empire? A fanatical zealot or Joseph Goebbels?

>>49987120

They ware zealots in a good, loyal meaning way. Not religious zealots.

>>49987139

All true except for his precognitive visions that drove him utterlz insane. That would happen no matter where his pod landed.

>>49987302
If he'd had a more stable upbringing he might've been able to interpret them more clearly.

>>49987286
Anon, you're going to need to learn this sooner or later. A zealot is a zealot. Zealots exist to advance their cause and destroy all rivals. Zealots ignore logic and reason and operate off cast iron self confidence. Zealots are dangerous. The same holds true if their cause is religion, atheism, a political party, or fucking console or edition wars. There is no such thing as a good zealot. There are only ones you, personally, find useful.

>>49987228
the thing is, the story demands that half of the primarchs turn traitor, so they made up good/decent/bad reasons to have 9 primarchs become baddies. some of the storylines just are awful, where with slight intervention some would have remained loyal like Pert, Kurze, Lorgar, Magnus...
In Lorgars case, a minor intervention to make sure Kor Phaeron and Erebus do not poison his mind would have prevented entire heresy. It's so stupid, the Big E might be the worst daddy in the universe.

Pert hated war, so give him some building projects to keep him happy; no traitorous feelings.
Kurze had too little guidance and became just a murderer on rampage.
Magnus wanted knowledge, so let him know things that would have prevented greater catastrophes from ever happening.

Angron's nails should have been removed immediately, as they were killing him and resulted in the whole legion being lost.

And maybe give Fulgrim the occasional speech that perfection is not all that matters and make sure he is not carrying a freaking daemonblade around all the time.

>>49987139
Is there a reason on why he decided to commit senpukyaku?

>>49987336
The Dornian Heresy, for having a kind of weird setup for the loyalists turning traitor, actually did a pretty good job of showing how best each of the OG traitor legions could have come out as well-adjusted loyalists.

Incidentally, in terms of what "the story demands", Emps really should have been more genre savvy on that. At least in the terms of, he knows about the Big Four, and four of his kids are PERFECT matches for each of them, and he doesn't pick up on shit.

>>49987336
Perty would've never stayed loyal, he probably would've never gone chaos without the nudging of Horus but his loyalty to the Emperor was paper thin and he hated his brothers.

>>49986763
>One of my sons is bloodthirsty as fuck and only wants to kill things with his chainaxes
>The other is heavily into sorcery, his skin turned red, and he lost one eye in a bargain with a warp-spawn
>The other spends all day painting, tastng wine, and bragging about his perfect legion
>And the other never bathes while breahing in toxic fumes, and he was born in a toxic field surrounded by corpses
>Could any of these guys fall to one of the four chaos gods of war, sorcery, hedonism, and despair
>...NAAAAAH
Bad parenting aside, the emperor was really fucking stupid about who he let command thousands of super-soldiers.

>>49987351

Its pretty weak sauce but its basically he wanted to make a point that everything he did he did in the Emperor's name and with his blessing. And despite staining himself with these evil deeds his loyalty was rewarded with betrayal.

That the Imperium was built upon the fear and ruin of those that resisted and only after when they had no further use for him did the Emps stab him in the back.

I dont know to whom the point was meant for but he does have a point. The emperor can be as cruel and merciless as the chaos gods only with the veneer of hypocracy.

>>49986763
>visible stinklines
Is he Our Guy?

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>>49987498
let Pert play with Legos and Minecraft, build cities and machines, not tear down fortress worlds manned by hostile xenos.
Heck, he could have innovated more in a decade than Mechanicum could in a century.

Pert was too autistic to complain and shit got dark fast. Which is probably we fa/tg/uys can sympathize with him so much.

heck, have Pert design Death Stars or some similar shit

>>49987474

Hm...

What were loyalist Thousand Sons like Hard to imagine a chapter of sorceror marines operating in the Imperium.

Or all of them for that matter.

>>49987336
/tg/ always talks a lot about how Pert WANTED to be a good guy, but was pushed over the "school shooter" line. I've never read any of the books, but the 40k wikis say that Pert was always a ruthless, calculating little bastard. Where in the lore was it stated that he was ever good?

Because I like the idea that Pert wanted to be noble, as it makes his character a bit more tragic and interesting, I've just never seen it in the lore.

>>49987351
He was a shoto

>>49987474
I dunno. Some of the Dornian Heresy ones are kinda thin.

Most notably Manus. He's probably one of the absolute most loyal Primarchs, and his whole being taken over by the Necrodermis thing never really sat well with me.

>>49987582

He wasnt

This is the same dude that committed decimation for no fucking good reason.

He was autistic and just wanted to build things that werent involving war but he wasnt a "good" person. But then again neither was Ferrus.

>>49987582
Pert was an autist.

He liked to sit by himself and build his fancy train sets, but when it came to people he treated them the exact same way. He saw his marines as numbers rather than individuals, so he threw them away like they were just more playthings or broken machines.

He wasn't really pushed over any lines, but if he had been left to just build the way he wanted to instead of putting him in charge of people, he wouldn't have ended up killing people the way he did.

>>49987604
Ferrus knew the score though. He wasn't a good person because it wasn't his job to be.

Most Likely Traitors who could have been loyal
>Magnus
>Kurze
>Lorgar

Most likely Loyalist who could have gone traitor
???

>>49987589
I was more thinking of Emps legalizing the Imperial Cult, soul-binding the Thousand Sons, getting Angron his surgery, being nice to Pert, etc.

>>49986947
They already went through the not!Butlerian Jihad once, I doubt Big E wanted to do that ever again.

>>49987582
I think there is one HH with Pert as focus primarch. It's just that of all the autistic primarchs, Pert is easier to understand. Dorn is the "Chad" who gets nice jobs, Pert takes the shitty jobs and doesn't get credited, etc...
He was not really good, but nor was he truly evil, he hated war but was good at it, so he kept bleeding his legion campaign after campaign. Pert wanted to create, but he was forced to become a destructive warlord, which he hated.
Maybe he would have suited far better for peacetime innovation and creation, but the war prevented him from enjoying anything.

>>49987633
Corvus
Jaghatai

>>49987661
Naw, Jaghatai skirted the line because he was thinking. Fact of the matter is I seriously doubt how he could ever come to the conclusion that Chaos was the right choice for humanity. Unless he was seriously deceived/corrupted.

>>49987661
The Lion

>>49987633
Lion
Lion
Also Lion

In fact, I don't think he's was ever loyal

Looking at what fuck ups the eighteen Primarchs were like, it makes you wonder how bad were the two Primarchs (2nd and 11th) that he expunged.

>>49987633
>Sanguinus, giving to bloodrage and turning Khornite
>Jaghatai, honour and loyalty to Horus, his best bro
>Lion, he hardly cared for either way and was always the opportunist, little love for Terra
>Guilliman was prepared to start his Imperium Secondus quite fast, wanted to just keep ruling his own fiefdom, Macragge>>Terra

>>49987633
Magnus was blinded by hubris and completely corrupt. Him going to Horus' side was an eventuality.
Kurze was doomed from the start because of Night Haunter and he knew it.
Lorgar is the entire reason the heresy started, and his path was set in stone by the Emperor not wanting to be seen as a god.

Now, the actual could-have-been-loyal primarch? Mortarion. Not a nice guy. Not a reasonable guy. But he was the one who Horus wasn't sure he could convince.

>>49987713
They probably weren't even that bad, but did "unspeakable" things like peacefully interact with minor xenos or believe in democracy.

>>49987713
They had to be the creators of the other 3 chaos gods, laid in bed with every xeno ever, had mutant friends living in harmony, introduced the Ctan to the Necrontir, started a lab project called T-ranids and probably the ones who killed the old ones, I srly can't think of any other act that could make them as hated

>>49987713

It must have been horrific. Clearly some mutations were okay (Sangy and Magnus) and clearly mentally unstable ones (Kurze, Angron) fit a purpose.

And Chaos would not have been known by the others at this time period in its current form so its likely not directly related to that.

My guess would be a Primarch raised by aliens. Or one with such severe mutations they were no longer human.

>>49987713
either filthy xenos lovers or outright pacifists, or maybe they condemned Big E and his genocidal conquest campaigns and refused to serve.
Or they called out Russ for being a furrylover and got killed as a result.

>>49987713

One a barren arid world filled with Orks, a child from the stars drops in.

In time this child raises up the ranks and despite his pale skin becomes the greatest Warboss the Orkz ever knew.

Painting himself green he leads the GRAT KROOSADE to bring the teachings of the Orkz onto the rest of the weak galaxy.

And thats when the Emperor had to kill him.

>>49987864
We already have Prime-Orks though. Haven't you read the Beast books?

>>49986973
I've always had a theory that the Emperor intended the heresy to break out.
>Be emperor
>Want humanity to reach full psychic potential
>See Eldar and want to avoid that fate
>Decide to create an enemy that can challenge humanity and even if they win humanity will persist
>Create several legions
>Design several of them from the ground up to fail, Night Lords, World Eaters, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors
>Shit goes wrong the good legions revolt, what the fuck are you doing Horus and Fulgrim?
>Send in anyone you can including some presumed traitors to fight them hoping to defeat them but not wipe them out
>Aw fuck even more are traitors than I thought, what the fuck?
>Emperor realizes the heresy is an actual problem now

There weren't 20 primarchs, they were actually 18 (19) but 20 was a better number and the XX legion being lead by twins fit perfectly. All marketing

This thread makes me wonder what some of the primarchs were meant to do without their different upbringings. Like, what were Angron and Fulgrim supposed to do? They certainly seem like they're defined by how they grew up.

>>49987879


should I?

>>49987911
except the E had prepared statues for 20 sons and had quarters available for 20 primarchs as soon as the war was over.

>>49987684
>>49987697
>>49987739
Why so much hate for lion? Is this a howling wolf thread?

>>49987926
Fulgrim probably would have turned out pretty similar all things considered. Angron would have been a noble warrior, kinda like Russ I guess. Khan would have been similar, but less bikes and Mongolian-ness. Ferrus would have been pretty much the same except no metal hands so his legion would have turned out better.

>>49986947
Automata are good for support or specific missions but not for general combat, they can't follow complex orders or have initiative.

>>49987937
All marketing, anon.

>>49987926
Fulgrim for Ministry of Culture, Angron for Ministry of Justice (he had a thing for fairness, which sometimes meant charging ahead to fight in a fair melee instead of cowardly ranged combat)

>>49987926

Some were to remain in war related roles, others were clearly more administrators or scholars.

I believe priamarchs like Khan, Angron, Kurze and Morty were meant to spread out to the edges of the galaxy and run rampant on distant threats.

>>49987175

I send The Ultramarines to do both.

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>>49987336
BL is covering their tracks by introducing the concept that the Emperor knew the Heresy was coming and indeed wanted it to, all part of an unknowable final objective.

I think it's Pharos that brings up a good point: why is it that Primarch's gene-seed, developed before they were scattered, match their "accidental" homeworlds perfectly? Night Lords of Terran descent were criminals with pale skin who could see in the dark before Curze was even discovered, World Eaters were savage fighters before Angron, Space Wolves were wolfy before Russ.

In The Outcast Dead, a Astropath shows the Emperor a vision of his "death" by Horus. The Emperor simply says he already knows.

In both Know No Fear and Vengeful Spirit, Russ and Guilliman state they don't understand why the Emperor waited so long to scold Lorgar. It was completely unnecessary. Unless he wanted the Heresy to happen.


The Emperor deliberately engineered the Primarchs to initiate the Heresy and it went just as planned. Now in M41 the final phase of his master plan to save (or dominate?) humanity has come.

now u woke

>>49987589

Its literally Fulgrims story but with a different weapon of alien make that causes his corruption and downfall.

>>49987327
>There are only ones you, personally, find useful.
And now you understand the Emperor.

>>49987984
to continue this assignment of cabinet roles;
-Lorgar for Ministry of Propaganda
-Horus as Prime Minister
-Pert for Min. of Urban Planning
-Leman for Keeper of Zoos
-Kurze for Min. of Police
-Mortarion for head of Inquisition, hunting down Psykers
-Alpharius for Intelligence gathering
-Sanguinus for Public Relations
-Ferrus for Manufactory Oversight
-Vulkan for Ministry of Public Safety
-Corax for National Aviation Agency
-Magnus keeps his ass on the Golden Throne
-Lion can keep being overly tactical and knightly
-Guilliman for Ministry of Finance

etc...

>>49988082
Alpharius for FBI, Corax for CIA.

Also, I see Ferrus as more of a drill sergeant type. He'd be best as second in command for the military.

>>49988082
Who for Ministry of Sound?

>>49988040
Would literally be one of the absolute worst cases of writing I have ever seen for 40k's timeline.

Sounds about right.

>>49988040
well yeah, also possible

and maybe he wanted 10k years of sleep to finally figure out how to complete the Webway project, without being disturbed all the time.
And maybe he wanted humanity to survive on their own, because eventually they would have to.

maybe he knew the war against chaos would keep Empire strong and vigilant, JUST AS PLANNED

>>49987580
Not him, but basically what happened was Magnus, during Nicea, was so pissed off at both his brothers for betraying him as well as no one caring about the Flesh Change ravaging them, decided to go "Fuck it! If you guys want my legion, which is mostly psykers, to be utterly loyal and punished, then you may as well soul-bind us like Astropaths and blind us you fuckers. Hell, I'll volunteer to be the first up, just to prove my loyalty to the Imperium."

And so he did, and the whole rest of his legion willingly blinded themselves and soulbound themselves as Astropath Marines. This, conviniently, also cured their legion of the Flesh Change, and Emps was decided to trust Magnus with more of his plan, gave him the details, so Magnus never fucked up in the massive way he did in the Normal universe.
This display of humility and loyalty, and being accepted is what pisses off Russ and causes him to fall to Chaos.

Also
>Hard to imagine a chapter of sorceror marines operating in the Imperium.
Space Wolf Wolf Priests do it all the time, and no one complains.

>>49988109
Fulgrim for Ministry of Art and Culture, subsection for Noise Marines might be necessary

>>49988091
Alpharius maybe CIA, FBI which is internal policing falls to Curze
Corax might be managing prisons, he has experience of those?

Ferrus, a bit of mystery; he liked forging stuff and being angry and murderous, which makes him one of the blandest primarchs? Oversight over Mechanicum?

>>49988198
He liked people being the best and hardest versions of themselves. Forging was kinda incidental.

>>49988224
Ministry of Education?

>COME ON, YOU CAN DO IT! STUDY HARD, YOU WILL BE THE BEST STUDENTS EVER IF YOU KEEP TRYING HARD!!!

>>49988250
>YOU ARE WEAK CHILD! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAK!
Imagine what the PTA meetings are like.

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>>49987926
Pretty much were going to do this

>>49988117

The only version of that story that wouldn't be completely retarded is that, with his incredible powers, the emperor foresaw this future and what lay beyond it. Through an incredibly slim chain of events that WOULD come to pass if nothing was changed, Humanity would beat the odds and defeat chaos, emerging into a new golden age.

But if he used his knowledge and avoided the heresy, the future would be massively changed. And, here is the thing, he can't know what the new timeline will look like until he changes events. Not for certain.

Given the situation, Humanity enduring the 40k timeline and being sure to win in the end was a safer bet than trying to fix the problem and accidently destroying the future in which victory happened.

>>49987952
either that or they buy into the epik traitor maymays of 1dchan

>>49986933
>The most horse-riding fast man
One of the big surprises of the HH books is how much I've enjoyed the White Scars, they seem really cool.

>>49988117
gave me a hearty chuckle there anon

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I can't help but imagine, had the Emperor's plans worked, Magnus would've absolutely loved sitting on the Golden Throne and hooked to the Astronomicon.

>Get to sit around, in one of the largest repositories of knowledge in the galaxy
>Get to ask dad questions all the time
>spend everyday going "HOLY FUCK I CAN SEE INTO FOREVER!"
>Everyone finally appreciates you.
>"Oh my, I wonder how this ship full of horny newly initiated Sisters of Silence got here"
>Occasionally dick around with people by changing the Astronomicon's color or what have you

The only thing I wonder is, while he's on the Throne, what are his Sons doing?

>>49988428
>what are his Sons doing?

Probably getting put down like the rest of the Astartes. Emperor was pro-Human and didn't want the Space Marines to increase in number, meanwhile advances in technology would've eventually rendered them redundant.

>>49988428

another thing I'm wondering, before finding Magnus and when the Emp was still crusading, how did Astronomican work? No was around sitting to make it function, but it worked still well?
Does the Astronomican even need someone sitting on the Throne? Apparently not, since Big E was crusading with his sons for decades, long away from earth.

>>49987549
made me laugh, but yeah, the Emperor is just a gigantically bad judge of character. Mortarion, Angron, Lorgar and Konrad should have set of absolutely massive alarm bells in his head as soon as he met them.

>>49988484
The Astronomicon was powered, as it always has been, by a huge array of Archeotech stations, Psykana temples and the constant efforts of an untold number of Psykers specialized for the role. The Emperor, at least during or shortly after the Heresy likely wasn't the one powering it.

Chaos, however, has become far stronger in recent times so presumably the Emperor, alongside the additional Psyker-snacks and collective faith of Humanity is required to keep it running.

>>49988484
the emp at full strength could power it without it requiring his full attention
the throne merely keeps people alive and stops to the failed webway project from making a new eye of terror where terra currently is

>>49988517
so the big lighthouse from Terra does not really require Emperor, because after all he was very often in absentia from Terra...
which makes the association of Emprah with Astronomicon quite odd. Surely he can boost it, but it doesn't require Emprah to function.

which makes the Golden Throne even a greater oddity, couldn't it be moved in theory?

>>49986763
Guys maybe we should have taken out armor off. Its really crowded up here like this.

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>>49988554
oh yeah, those theories

thanks a lot Magnus

>>49988561
no it does require the emps
see >>49988554

>>49988272
Who's the guy for Angron and Magnus?

>>49988561
The Golden Throne, Astronomicon and Imperial Webway were, hypothetically, meant to be used together, likely with the Throne itself as the keystone for the network. It wasn't designed to be used the way it has since M31, or at least as its role entirely, the Emperor was just placed there so he could help power the Astronomicon, I guess, which is a good thing considering how strong Chaos has become recently.

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>>49988600
so if they tried to remove Emprah from the Throne, there exists a chance of reality collapsing on Terra?
What are the odds of nothing happening in such case?

>>49988554
I don't think we have anything suggesting the Emperor was powering the Astronomicon before the Heresy, do we? Considering Chaos was seemingly weaker and it's always had hundreds, or thousands of Psykers working as one of the main bodies for its function, I'm not sure it would've even been necessary.

>>49986763
I love Magnus's face in this.
>Uuuugh, why does Mortarion have to always smell like dead grox?
>Holy shit Agron, calm the shit down already, you're breaking the railing.
>I wonder what product Jaghati uses for his beard. I've been looking for new stuff for my hair.
>I wish I was home, reading books.

Why did he give them all dumb names, though?

It's like naming his sons was an afterthought.

>>49987139
They could have all been loyal (except maybe our mystery two), the emperor just was a dumbass and did almost everything wrong.

>>49988561
The Emperor's task in the Astronomicon's operation is to focus the output, because a lesser mind (lens) would be destroyed by the amount of power going through it. Once he set up and started the process, he can maintain his part of it from anywhere.

The main reason the Throne needs to stay where it is now that the Emperor is a vegetable is because it's sitting on top of a rupture in the Webway, which the Emperor needs to be physically present to keep in check now that he's no badly maimed and weakened. This rupture in turn is the result of Magnus using sorcery to try and warn the Emperor of Horus's betrayal at exactly the worst possible moment.

>>49988623
Nil. It's already begun; the Emperor can only freeze the progression.

It's a Ministry of Truth situation, if you've played Morrowind.

>>49988082
>>49988428
>>49988484
>>49988517
>>49988554
>>49988561
>>49988615
>>49988743
Okay, so in a universe where Magnus did not fuck up, what would he do exactly? Because chances are the Human Webway PRoject would've been finished, so the Astronomicon wouldn't really have been that useful for space travel.

Would it still be kept around to instead act as a Rapid Mass Comms array and Defensive Anti-Warp field across the galaxy? In which case, would Magnus's ministry be the Ministry of Communications? And possibly be the guy in charge of foretelling/preventing planets getting attacked by massive warp presences? Meaning he'd be free to take his boys and go around the Imperium recording and collecting books for the Archives on Terra, Prospero, and possibly other major Systems?

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this image looks backwards to me, right i'm not going full angron here?

>>49988602
Angron = Howard Dean. He ran for Vice President of the US alongside John Kerry in 2004 and pretty much destroyed his career by going on a screaming berserker fit talking about how many states they were going to sweep

Magnus = Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister of UK before Cameron.

>>49987741
>There still lost and they will be discovered at 999.9.9.9 in the 41st millennia
>Gamesworkshop will sell each model for £100 each.

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>>49987175
there's a greater issue here

>one successfully orchestrated the defense of an entire world featuring the largest conflict in the entire war with multiple unknown factors

>one unsuccessfully defended a single fortress in a legion-on-legion slapfight because he underestimated the resolve of his enemy and the possibility of reinforcements

Everything might've been fine if Big E sent Perty a box of Lego for therapy after every campaign so he could satiate his DaVinci lust between engagements.

>>49987659
>Dorn is the "Chad"
I mean compared to "muh DaVinci" sure, but Dorn had problems too. He just didn't let them overwrite his duty to the Crusade.

>>49988428
>Magnus the Rad
Shit dawg, I already liked my file name for that one though.

>>49988631
In Betrayal it says he powers it pretty effortlessly, regardless of where he's at. He just needs a part of his insanely vast mind focused on his psychic lighthouse.

>>49987606
That's bullshit. In angel exterminatus he says to fulgrim how marines aren't expendable and every life lost has to mean something. He even stands up for kroeger when Lucius threatens him and says if he ever touches one of his marines ever again he'd fuck him up.

>>49987549
Thts smething that gave Big E a little bit of humanity. Sure, they might be a bit fucked up, but... They are still his sons.

Personally I think that being forced to kill two of his sons is why he's so distant fro the rest.

>Maybe he tried to groom one, and they were corrupted by Chaos?

>Maybe they couldn't handle some mysterious truth of the Emperor and they killed themselves?

This is my headcannon, so Emps isn't the greatest dickhead humanity ever produced

>>49987864
They could have swerved us all and made the Warboss of Ullanor a Primarch chosen by Gork/Mork.

>>49987911
I thought it was so two players could both claim that their forces were Lost Legions

>>49992955
Yes, but in a way he can still be an autist.
>He has his obsession with building things
>has his legion, they might be numbers, but they are HIS numbers
I imagine them to be like minis to him. He loses loads of them in battle, but its okay because he still won. But they are his minis!
>REEEEEE!!!! GET THE FUCK OFF MY MARINES FAG BOY!!!!!!!!

>>49988554
How does this even work? Is the Locus of the breach in space somehow tied to the rock of Terra? Does that anamoly revolve around the Sun and hurtle through the galactic orbit exactly like Earth does?

>>49994145
Evidently. I mean, it's tied to the Golden Throne, AKA the Imperial Webway project that got blown up by Magnus. The Throne is the breach, so as the Throne moves, so does the breach.

>>49986763
So in The Beast Arises this whole palace and shit is secretly reconquered by The Beast about 1000 years after the Heresy. Was Ullanor actually inhabited and fortified by the Imperium or what? Were there no armies, no Astropaths, no Titans on Ullanor to fight the Orks when they came back?

>>49994670
It's basically said that due to the Heresy, settlement of Ullanor was abandoned and 1,500 years later still wasn't touched as there were bigger issues for the Imperium. The Beast appeared there and made it his capital, gathering a massive Waaaagh! without the Imperium's knowledge

>>49994708
So they build this Triumph palace and parade grounds, and then just left it there? Didn't even sterilize the planet of spores?

>>49987185

He did. Lorgar didn't listen.

>>49987679

In the HH books, the Khan is implied to be the Emperor's free spirit. He's doing what the Emperor wishes he could do: Roam free, fast and unchained.

>>49994735
They didn't really build a "palace", they built a viewing tower and flatened down a section of the planet for a road

The Heresy erupted just 4 years later, I guess it was abandoned in the chaos

As for building a lot of shit for 1 purpose then abandoning it, look at Nikea. It was barren, the AdMech came along and built this giant dome conference hall, they had the conference, then they left.

Yes, it was excessive and needless. That's the point of the Triumph.

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>>49994773
>Jaghatai likes going fast.

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>>49987970
>Automata [...] they can't [...] or have initiative.
I see what you did there.

>>49988638
Whats funnier to me is that hes casting a spell right next to Mort for apparently no reason what so ever.

>>49995388
>I will give you my other eye Tzeentch, just make the smell stop!

>>49994773
>the Khan is implied to be the Emperor's free spirit
>all the Primarchs are some aspect of The Emperor
>literally, Angron is just Big E turning all his anger into a giant meat person, etc
>the Primarchs are Big E's mental Codex Astartes, dividing up his own mind so no one part can control and corrupt the rest
>it worked, kinda sorta

>>49986763

Why is Horus so bald?

>>49995923
The Emperor foresaw the hairesy, and purposefully made Horus bald, for no man should have such power AND such glorious hair as the Emperor has/had.

>>49987027
I'm reading the HH books right now, just finished A Thousand Sons, and I must say that Horus (before getting revived) is the only primarch so far to not be either a fucking idiot or have some other kind of problem.

Ok, maybe Sanguinius as well, though he haven't featured so much yet.

>>49987739
Doesn't Horus admit outright that Sanguinius would never and could. Ever fall to Chaos or be convinced to turn? Even Guilliman could have been turned, under the right circumstances (don't know if he knew about Lion's loyalty is it's own reward though), but they all agree that Sanguinius simply wasn't going to happen. Ever.

>>49986763
The Tower was purpose built to hold the Primarchs during that ceremony

why is it falling apart already?

>>49996417
>>49987027
*cough blood rage and literal wings cough*

>>49987740
Perturabo, too. His rationale for defecting was that he was fed up with just following orders and never getting to do what he actually wanted, also never getting credit for anything.

In other words he was the little bitch that eventually turned into a school shooter. But he could have stayed a bitch.

Guilliman could have gone traitor. He had just as much hubris as Magnus, but about statesmanship instead of magic.

>>49996978
Yeah but that wasn't his fault. All the other primarchs (remember I've only read the first few books so far) were just fucking retarded in the head, taking stupid decisions despite supposedly being super smart

>I'm gonna research sorcery even though everyone even my closest followers say it's dangerous
>I'm a manipulative asshole
>I'm Leman Russ
>I'm a failed gayfag artist who breaks things and throws tantrums because I fail at art
>I'm gonna inject myself with and also drink poison because it's what cool guys do
>I'm gonna make everyone in my legion pretend to be me even though the actual me is obvious on account of being a primarch but actually it's just a ruse to not let anyone know I have a brother because that's really important to keep secret.

>>49997059
>Yeah but that wasn't his fault.
well let's put angron at the head of the justice department he dindu nuffin either

>>49997059
>I'm gonna research sorcery even though everyone even my closest followers say it's dangerous
Hey remember that time the Emperor went around half the galaxy telling everyone demons didn't exist and there were no gods then got mad Magnus was consorting with demons and gods? He was a good friend.

>>49986763

> literal visible stink lines off mortarion

>>49997217
As I recall he said demons didn't exist but still admitted to those who knew about the warp that there was dangerous stuff in there. And I mean, that knowledge was pretty widespread. Why else have geller fields on all warp capable ships?

>it's only demons if we call them demons
That's not how it works bro.

But don't even get me started on the emperor, because he is the most pants on head autist retard of them all. Starting with
>I don't want to create a race of super humans so let's create some super humans. What can go wrong?

>>49997402
If you want to save your self a lot of ass pain and time just don't take Black Library as canon. GW clearly don't and half the books are terrible anyway.

>>49987093
Curze was one of the three Primarchs who I might have actually trusted to do their job correctly in perpetuity, the other two being Corax and Dorn.

The problem was that Dorn wouldn't stop fucking hassling the guy about doing his job exactly the way he had been conditioned and ordered to do it, so he snapped and went rogue.

>>49997609
Right, but my point still stands. Geller fields were not invented by black library, and neither is the fact that the emperor didn't want to create superhumans and therefore intentionally went ahead to do just that.

>>49997956
>the emperor didn't want to create superhumans and therefore intentionally went ahead to do just that.
I don't know where you got that from. Not saying you are wrong just never read it.

>Geller fields were not invented by black library
As for this my earlier point about Magnus's sorcery was that Magnus literally couldnt have know better because the Emps left him in the dark. Not to say he might not have jumped off the cliff anyway however his family can't sue if theres a warning sign know what I mean?

Besides geller fields and other technology is involved with the Mechanicus and the navigators and they don't share their secrets with outsiders.

>>49988091
Alpha legion is way more CIA than Raven guard.

>>49988123
>Space Wolf Wolf Priests do it all the time, and no one complains.
no one complains Twice
ftfy

>>49988561
It requires the emperor, but not that he be actually on it. At least, not when he was still alive. Really, any sufficiently powerful psyker can power it, it just burns them out.

>>49994145
Well, that's how it would always have to work, or translation points from the warp to real space wouldn't be a thing. The warp exists as a plane overlapping existence, time/space works differently there.

>>49994790
Pert built Nikaea

>>49997402
Pretty much everyone with knowledge of the warp knew if warp beasts, but considered them to be nothing but exotic fauna.

>>49988272
That GWB one in particular is super true, my goodness.

So hereis something that I always wondered.

When Magnus was introduced to his legion, Big E pretty much said "yo, they're fucked up, fix it". So, Magnus traded his eye to stop the flesh change, and its said in the book that where his eye was, is now smooth, like it was never there. So, did Tzeentch alter history so that Magnus never had an eye? Why did nobody question how Magnus is now missing an eye?

>>49999028
The fluff changes on whether or not he traded the eye or was always a cyclops.

I'll never understand why Big E didn't decide to reveal himself back when humanity was still confined to one planet. He could have done whatever he wants with them to make them stronger, more loyal, etc...

Instead he decided to conquer everything when humanity already got spread all over the galaxy and ruled by warlords.

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>>49987739
>Sanguinus, giving to bloodrage and turning Khornite
>doubting the best of them all

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>>49999471

>>49999471
Maybe Word Bearers trick them properly, most of Legion succumbs to wild rage and start killing everything and bathing in blood, Sanguinus in desperation is offered a pact, and he accepts this mysterious offer as long as his Legion sons are saved from the bloodrage.

Khorne can make deals too.

and if you look close enough, you can already notice how Sanguinus has chosen appropriate colour schemes...

...who was the real Red Angel?

>>49988771
>ministry of truth situation
>but it was stopped from falling on Vivec by Chim-powered Vivec, so it's not going anywhere, and even if it did, the altitude is too low for anything to happen really. At worst it'll fall in the river and destroy a chunk of temple's platform.

>>49997059
>>I'm a manipulative asshole
Lorgar?

>>49999582
Vivec is an asshole and instead of stopping the Ministry of Truth he froze it in time. The important difference is that it still has all its momentum so if it becomes unfrozen it will instantly re-accelerate to whatever speed it was at when he stopped it.

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>>49999544
>bird boy
>betraying humanity and his father to save his legion
>doubting His best son

>>49999654
>so if it becomes unfrozen it will instantly re-accelerate to whatever speed it was at when he stopped it.
>so if it becomes unfrozen
It will not

>>49999671
maybe he didn't read EULA so good when signing a "Yes I agree, pls save my Legion" when dealing with Lorgar?

>>49999698

but it did tho

>>49997714

The Space Sharks are basically loyalist Night Lords

In spirit if not in gene seed

A reverse horus heresy though would see an Imperium worst off than now since all the Primarchs were invented to fail, i have a hard time believing the traitors would have done a better job.

Imagine the space marine attitude average like mortifactors.

Whereas Chaos offered a more appealing quality of life

Sure you might be eaten by a deamon... but you have deamon trains that run on time!

>>49996893
Horus wanted Sanguinius dead instead of turned. A demon said it was because Sanguinius was so loved and charismatic that he would usurp the Warmasters role. Literally no one hated the perfect hawk boy.

>>49988198
But Alpharius isn't a big guy

>>49988566
don't try to make this gayer than it already is, Fulgrim.

>>49988040
>accidental" homeworlds perfectly? Night Lords of Terran descent were criminals with pale skin who could see in the dark before Curze was even discovered, World Eaters were savage fighters before Angron, Space Wolves were wolfy before Russ.
they were still made Astartes with their Primarchs Gene Seed.

Also the Emperor took those genes from existing humans and used them to create the primarchs

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>>49999671
You sangyfags are the worst. Sanguinius was going to see his soul for his legion to be cured from his inferior genetics and that one medic in his unit had to sacrifice himself to stop birt boy

>>49999698
But anon, it did, destroying Vivec city and causing the red mountain to erupt destroying most of vvardenfell

>>49998200
>Magos Pavel, I am Alpharius.

>>50003314
Oh, ooooooooooooooh.

>>50001485
But he didn't. Instead he died for your sins and sins of his father.