Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>49979918
Golarion is a fucking theme park and you know it.

>>49979940
I've always liked theme parks. They're fun.

Went to one at least once every year back in my childhood.

>>49979940
I've never actually played in the default setting, always in ones made by the DM.

What is the best Winter-themed animal companion you can take as a Druid?

>>49979940
>implying the real world isn't a theme park

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>>49979918
Dark Stalker
Giant Octopus
Shadow Demon

My games fall apart before they can take on anything really big, like a Dracolich.

What are some neat enemies I can throw at low level players (3-5 or thereabouts) in a campaign heavy on undead and aberrations? Evil Outsiders and maybe Monstrous Humanoids? work too I suppose.

Bonus points for creatures larger than Medium.

>>49979991
Moose.

They're big, they fuck things up, they can move at speed through 5 foot snow-banks and they can be ridden.

And as far as pathfinder stats them, they're actually decent in a fight.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/herd-animals/moose

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>>49980035
Skeletal Champion
Skeletons
Burning Skeletons
Hell Hounds

Let's see if your players remembered to buy blunt weapons.

>>49980167
A megaloceros is arguable even better, since it's a DIRE moose that can be ridden around like a demented Mountie. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Megaloceros

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Tell em about your favourite character you've played anons.

>>49980224
An Inquisitor that was on the hunt for the blood mage that had killed a beloved priest in their homeland. The Inquisitor was going made trying to find the fucker and he started believing that every NPC was lying to him about not knowing what he was talking about.

At one point, the blood mage appeared and captured the party. He used his magic fuckery to force black blood into the Inquisitor (DM forced me into picking up bloodrager).

At first I was pretty mad about the forced bloodrager, but I worked with it. Every time he used his bloodrage, his sanity slipped a little more until he eventually lost it and attempted to kill the party. They subdued him and brought him to a church to try and have him purified, but the zealots they took him to elected to hang him instead.

>>49980224
CORIANDER D. VIGARO
COOKER OF MEALS
SMITER OF EVIL
PUNCHED A LICH OFF A CLIFF WHILST NAKED ONCE
IT'S A LONG STORY

>>49979918
>>49979359
>>49979584
Yeah I dunno, I just read them.
The owod city books are more fun than most adventure books to read, and give you stuff to use.
The d&d equivalent is region and city books. They're typically the better books, ime.
If you just want dungeons you could look up 1 page dungeons and the like.

>>49979940
Eh.

Pick a single country and it's just a setting.

>>49980001
This desu.

>>49980224
The ribbon knight was tailored to fun.
Alas he died at level one.
But here be the late noble spirit's good tale. As his allies have lived to later regale. A goodly soul and man of good deed, the ribbon knight saw guild halls all filled with greed. He read through the rulings and bylaws of old, and hatched a plan candid and bold. By challenging the head tailor to a contest of blade, he stole his position and head tailor was made. He sought to reform the malpractice of men, but shortly was ousted from the city just when, a group of adventurers sent forth to a cave did the ribbon knight valiantly (not really) did save, from the bandits poorly hidden in the wilderness trees to which the ribbon knight tied his foes in the breeze. A flourish of ribbons and a city guard notes, the knight fixed the stitches and cuts of their coats. Toward the cave with the heroes he set out for a quest, against the threat of an evil monsters abreast. Before their arrival at unfortunate scene, the band met a traveler bursting at seams. His wagon was broke and his aura was wicked, yet the ribbon knight prepared his needle for fixes. Approaching the stranger's tattered old clothes, the blue yarns and brown silks were already chose. The amorphous man of indistinguishable features, was but a coat covering four tiny creatures. They attacked and they bit and they all latched on tight, but the ribbon knight's armor held up to their might. With pity and confusion at their useless onslaught, our knight tried to reason while all others fought. Offering the creatures absolution and amenities, the ribbon knight fell to four natural twenties. An unmarked grave, ribbons flowing in the sun, too noble and brave, to survive level one.

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rate the 3 homebrews I made, /pfg/:

The Empyreus (a debuff/support class rolled into a warlock/vitalist chassis)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xQMlB45-UFEWCB2ffqoBUMhR-t4afSXLk29fgTJNVyw/edit

WIP: The Sigilist (a daoist / onmyoudo-inspired 9th level divine caster)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fALiSRTmfZGb6k_7YccrTy6-FXou8yhaSqA_MukmXpg/edit?usp=sharing

WIP: The Mechanist (an alchemist that trades away all his alchemy for mechanical stuff like powered suits, jet packs, nanomachines and cannons)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rx0a2T6p_ADX0I74-yonZLc2NPyUuVSqACEFOZ1Oahk/edit?usp=sharing

I'm also brainstorming the Vajra - a Martial class (somewhat inspired by the soulknife, son wukong and of course, indian myths) who wields a shapeless, formless weapon known as a varunasta.

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>>49980224
She's my favorite by virtue of being the only one, sadly.
Just got done leveling her to 11 and finished copying 50 spells from a dropped spellbook that was carried by a Simulacrum of the BBEG. Now I still have 8 spells to add from scrolls, FCB, and 3 more from leveling. And I still need to grab 3 more spells for Helen.

It's been a long night so far.

>>49978884
The trick is to rarely ever go into the deets about it, anon. If anything they're handy more or less for comical effect. Because not only do we want it to not get awkward as fuck at the table, but also tits aren't what defines the character; it's their actions, motives, and deeds.

>>49980551
That's the character's actions, motives, and deed. Not the tits.

But that's an idea for a sort of misdirection-type character, I'm sure.

How to play a youxia? I want to get my wuxia on.

>>49980551
Man, she's getting more french.

Hey, /tg/, need some advice.
I am joining a friend's PF game part of the way through and they are just about to raid a very large raider camp. With talks with the GM my character is a barbarian pit fighter. Lots of killing and forced to fight once friends, and once friends betraying said barbo.

So what are some good PTSD triggers and how to play it properly? With the Pit Fighter able to do the combat performance class ability, I know he will have episodes of hearing the roar of the crowds while fighting on occasion, anything else anyone can suggest?

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So the optional piecemeal armor system actually seems to work fine, apart from being boring as hell. Instead of changing it, I think I might go for a more Monster Hunter inspired overlay onto the system that goes along with the piecemeal weapon system I'm building at
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16HubBmutUy1muWdRQy09jFtnIE6fa2WUYewK_CM-89Q/edit?usp=sharing
Having new exotic beasts with MH-like attacks to hunt down sounds more fun to me than buying materials in a store, and it could add a way of obtaining minor bonuses and customization without fucking with WBL any further. Would it be overly cumbersome to introduce a minor crafting system beyond PF's regular one just for that though? We're talking like +1 to Climb checks and half a trait bonus for getting the right dragon teeth and Huge beetle shells.

>>49980573
The only time I have female characters is when I have high Cha. Jokes can be said of how I got such high Charisma.

That being said, unless it is trying to be sly with an NPC (which shouldn't happen often), your character gender (male, female, or attack helicopter) really shouldn't have to be brought up often.

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>>49980597
Find a copy of "Forge of War" from the Eberron Campaign Setting.

Chapter 3, "Scars of War" has roleplaying suggestions.

Anyone got some points for a poison build?
DM said he's open to any not obviously broken 3pp on the SRD.

Right now I'm thinking an alchemist but then the poison is a bit overshadowed by bombs and mutagen.

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>>49980775
Poison mechanics don't work that well in Pathfinder.

>>49980775
Toxicant, take the Mutagen discovery. Grab Vivisectionist. Dip 5 levels into Guild Poisoner for Treacherous Toxin, and build into the Sap Master tree of feats, plus one feat for Accomplished Sneak Attacker. Get a Merciful Toxic Virulent Snakebite Dagger. Enjoy having a DC 15/19+1.5x level+Int poison

>>49980638
I hate the cha = big tits maymay

>>49980993
I don't mean for it to happen. Just literally, my Paladins, Sorcerers, Oracles, Clerics, everything I've played that had Cha was female.

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>>49980993
Blame the Wizards.

>>49980993
Cha does says it increases your physical appearance.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores
>Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.

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>>49980551
Speaking of spells, I still have a few to go. 10 to be precise; seven spells of up to 5th level, and three more being 6th level. I'm kinda braindead on ideas at the moment, so suggestions would be lovely.

Here's a large chunk of Elsbeth's spellbook for reference to what she already has at the moment. Note: this list doesn't include her maneuvers, SLAs, or her Mythic spells.
http://pastebin.com/DZH4ESNR

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>>49981085
>thinking big tits are attractive
plebeian tastes

>>49981125
Sorry mate, I love my tits big and lactating, held up by a round pregnant belly.

Don't be hatin', ya hear?

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>>49981139
Even while exploring, infiltrating, or fighting?

>>49981085
Big tits isn't necessarily improving appearance, retard

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>>49981139
That's fucking hot and you are a man of exquisite taste.

>>49981085
Appearance can mean a load of things that aren't physical appearance.

Magic Jar is the typical counterexample: You swap bodies with something and you keep your original CHA score.

>>49981158
It was a joke, jesus fuck calm down.
>>49981194
Do you keep your Str/Dex/Con?

>>49981156
She refuses to not come along. Her magic is more powerful thanks to her goddess.

>>49981200
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/spells/magicJar.html

>LGS game
>Decide to try
>GM "Ok, if you want to play a class out of core, though I only allow 1pp, you have elite array, if you play core class you have to roll"
1080º and moonwalked away

>>49981206
>Balance starts being a problem, she can't power-attack quite like she used to, and being sickened half the time don't help.
>Eventually convince her to borrow a firearm so she's not risking herself and her child as much
>even slight weight gain elsewhere than just the belly forces her to stop wearing plate in the last few months
>But it's true she can follow; she's got good con, and let's face it everyone was walking slow cuz of the dwarf in the first place so one more with that pace won't change a thing.
>On the upside, if anything happens, she *is* as close to a temple as you could ever get a family to live
>Once she's recovered enough to start in the front line again, daddy long-range can keep baby safely on his back
>Although after the first fight you learn we need a lot more silence spells on him.
(btw personally I like a small handful rather than huge knockers. but not flat; there's gotta at least be something there)

I havnt read much pathfinder, but Is there a wall of the faithless type thing, I heard something bout a moon or something but is that true?

>>49981519
No, the wall of the faithless is unique to the terribad pantheon of Toril, whose gods are such petulant assholes and permatriggered overentitled toddlers at best that they were starving to death from lack of worship despite (or perhaps because of) the level of influence they were inflicting on their worshipers.

It's a terrible fucking idea, the kind of thing you just implode the crystal-sphere containing those gods outright and be done with it.

I have very little good to say about any of golarion's deities, but I'm relatively certain even they would never be able to agree enough to get something like that built up.

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>>49972424
>>49972489
>>49972589
>>49972629
>>49972670
>>49972716
>>49759863
So, I did a thing.

>>49981590
you did a pretty okay thing.

>>49981590
Is that a balding fat man stalking her?

>>49981535
also i read that you get absorbed by your afterlfie after a while, According to one of the devs i asked on a forum.

>>49981721
in regular D&D yeah (the wall of the faithless is a nasty, and literally infernal deal with devils and demons to sell them souls. good job, lawful good deities).

Well, not in a bad way, you have to understand. First, resurrection and reincarnation still work from there; the soul does hang around for a little bit making things easier for friendly clerics, but after that, afterlife is where you're getting called from.

If you're not a devout follower of a specific god (in which case you go to their personal realm) you go to the plane/layer that most fits your life. CG? Fighty? More of this stuff would be great? Asgard. Have fun. Even Baator is pretty much what those ending there wished for, to a point; yes it's a horrible, harsh environment, but pretty much everyone except the strongest and most already evil start at the bottom of that hierarchy and claw their way up from there. Of course if you had no real drive or willpower you'll just be one of those chatty skulls that eventually gets crushed or eaten or just dissipates.

From there, those willing and capable enough will become agents of their deities, or may evolve like the devils do into a more physical incarnation of the plane. Others meanwhile will just enjoy the conditions; whether that's being a faceless mook in big drunken battles for the next who knows how long, or laying back enjoying nirvana until you just become one with the universe as one might say. At that point you're finally well and truly gone, but there's plenty of new souls made from those same places you dissipated into to take your place, much like corpse in ditch became wormfood became plants became meat became the proteins your mother's body built you with.

So there's many ways out, but to most, it's lay back and let yourself fade out without a care.

Or, you know, some angry assholes stick you in a wall that literally tortures and tears your memories apart before selling your soul bits organ-legger-style to demons and devils.

>>49981770
But i mean in pathfinder, do you get absorbed?

>>49981770
Does this happen in 5e as well? I thought petitioners just lived out eternity in there plane of existence, not get absorbed, Well thats what i read on wikipedia at least

>>49981843
Yes, according to the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide:

>THE AFTERLIFE
>Most humans believe the souls of the recently deceased are spirited away to the Fugue Plane, where they wander the great City of Judgment, often unaware they are dead. The servants of the gods come to collect such souls and, if they are worthy, they are taken to their awaited afterlife in the deity's domain. Occasionally, the faithful are sent back to be reborn into the world to finish work that was left undone.

>Souls that are unclaimed by the servants of the gods are judged by Kelemvor, who decides the fate of each one. Some are charged with serving as guides for other lost souls, while others are transformed into squirming larvae and cast into the dust. The truly false and faithless are mortared into the Wall of the Faithless, the great barrier that bounds the City of the Dead, where their souls slowly dissolve and begin to become part of the stuff of the Wall itself.

>>49981880
Okay, but what does it mean to be "truly false and faithless?"

Has anyone ever explored Kaer Maga in a campaign? We're running Godsmouth Ossuary this weekend as a prelude to a campaign focused on the city and its Undercity.

>>49981880
>if you dont declare true faith to us you're going to suffer for all eternity no matter your deeds

>>49981621
Thanks

>>49981680
Yeah, today's Inktober prompt was creepy, so I killed two birds.
I poked a little fun with y'all there.

>>49981880
So what happens to the unborn and the people with little brain development?

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>>49981892
False - Saying a deity is your patron, but not living up to their tenets (pacifist worshiper of Tempus, worshiper of Hoar who forgives his enemies, etc.)

Faithless - Either not believing in the gods, or deciding that they are not worthy of your worship.

>>49980775
I think in general if you're going to use poison you'll want multiple attacks so that the DC and duration stacks. Probably the only thing shuriken and darts are good for.

I think alchemist in particular can coat their weapons in a sticky poison or some shit.

>>49981948
I think unborn go to Lathander since unborn are "youth" and within his influence. The simple minded are turned into larvae.

Try asking in the 5E thread.

>>49981985
So if your like a normal dude who doesnt want to be a outsider, you get absorbed by your plane, huh, but according to one of the devs, a god can still retrieve a absorbed soul iirc

>>49981996
so regardless if its dnd or pathfinder, if you dont want to be a outsider, you get absorbed.

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>>49982022
Divinity is no escape either.

If you run out of worshipers, you fall into a coma on the Astral Plane. It takes a lot longer, but you will be absorbed there.

Now your characters have a reason to seek undeath (lichdom, vampirism, etc.), or a way to become an outsider while retaining your identity (becoming a shade, a final revelation, or mastering an outsider bloodline).

>>49982218
Or theoritically do something like remake the entire cosmology like how they justified the changes in dnd various editions. but that would require far more than a single diety or god.

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>>49982310
Not every time.

3rd ed came about because Vecna entered Sigil and became a greater deity.

4th ed happened because Cyric killed Mystra with Shar's help.

5th ed happened because a lot of stuff happened across several novels, but several gods were involved.

>>49982348
I love how entering sigil just broke the entire cosomology.

>>49980638

>Gender is irrelevant
>He doesn't build his characters to incorporate their gender as a theme

You know, Ripley became so good as a character BECAUSE they emphasized her motherliness in Aliens.

>>49982378
Naw man, every character should have the same priorities and important character traits that I say they should have.

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>>49982358
Golarion is probably more resilient than Toril.

>>49982397

It just feels like you're missing out on a wide assortment of character backstories, potential arcs or wrinkles in personality by making your characters effectively genderless, people say that doesn't affect a character but it does.

Something like the woman seemed "too old for marriage" going out to adventure because the alternative is being a spinstress, or the sensitive young man who hides his emotions beneath a steel suit because his dad beat him for "not acting tough like a man," or hell something classic like a mother protecting her children or the father ripping and tearing across the Worldwound for his missing wife.

And don't even get me started on non-human races and non-traditional sexualities or genders, you think you can talk about a hermaphroditic Tiefling without mentioning them embracing or rejecting their peculiar societal position? The female half-orc that wants to be something more than just a wet hole in her Orcish tribe?

One of the greatest tragedies of the setting is Paizo trying to reject gender roles being a thing in the setting, when they're an excellent way to further delve into a character and their mindset.

This isn't strictly a pathfinder question overall, but we're playing pathfinder so I thought here's as good a place to ask as any.
Joined a group playing pathfinder at uni, I think most other people in the group are also new to each other, and the DM wanted us to all roll stats. Those whom were present at the first session got a range of rolls, nothing too bad or massively good, however the person who came in the second session claimed to have got 12 14 14 16 16 17, which isn't impossibly good but has less than 0.037% chance of getting that or strictly better.
The question is should I obliquely raise the issue, or wait to see if it becomes more of a problem (so far it's just that he has nigh every skill as good as anyone else)?

>>49982733
Either it got lucky and he'll play as normal or he is a constant fudger, and will cheat any roll possible.

I roll in front of DM for this reason.

How come Infinity Mirror Stance is so fucking bad? Am I misreading it?
It essentially lets you coinflip against the first attack someone makes on you and if you win it tge attack is negated and the stance is over and you have to switch off. It's literally garbage. You dont even pick which attack it is. Please tell me I'm missing something here, because this is too bad to be even a level 1 stance, let alone a level 3 one.

How can you make undead feel the joys of being alive temporarily or is it impossible?

>>49982841
Do you not know how good Mirror Image is? Jesus.

Yeah, you only get one for now, but it scales up to 5. Mirror Image is amazing and they ain't giving that shit to Martials.

You can reactivate the stance at any time (as a swift action) to re-gain images.

>>49982881
There's a psionic power that lets you share sensations.
Probably works on undead.

>>49982886
You can't reactivate a stance, you need to stance-dance over the course of two turns.

Also by the time this stance gets good you have a level 8 godstance to be in.

>>49982919
You don't get 8th level stuff at level 8. You'd get a 4th level stance, which there aren't any. You need to be level 5 to take a third level stance aways.

>>49982841
They only get the coin flip if they hit. If they miss, you still have your image. (Unless they miss by less than 5 which is stupid, but balance reasons)

>>49982960
>You don't get 8th level stuff at level 8. You'd get a 4th level stance, which there aren't any. You need to be level 5 to take a third level stance aways
2 images isn't when it gets good anon.
As I said, by the time it's a good stance you'll have an ultimate superstance to be in instead.

>>49982960
>They only get the coin flip if they hit. If they miss, you still have your image
Wew how powerful
Meanwhile EFlux level 3 stance exists.
Or the SCrane one. Or the RHourglass one.

>>49982993
At least it's not as bad a stance as the Golden Lion flanking one. You need at least 2 rogues for that one to be worth shit.
>2 Rogues

>>49983029
or sandman bards, or vigilante stalkers, or snakebite strikers, or hey, guess what? warlords get to give their allies their Charisma bonus as a flank modifier instead of the basic +2, isn't that nice?

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>>49981960
Biggest problem is both are surprisingly easy to qualify for (surprise surprise, the wall's highly profitable...)

Most people are going to worship the gods to a limited degree; they don't have the power or ability to understand, and might not be able to survive even in a simple farming community if they can't do something like forgive an enemy.

And faithless? The gods are REALLY good at causing that one. There's not only the Athar over in Sigil; who do have a point since the gods are neither omnipotent nor omniscient - in fact they're rarely much more capable than a level 17+ cleric or wizard in their own demiplane is... hint hint.... But there's also utter bullshit moments reminiscent of a certain trumpets time in golarion, where deities on toril do utterly nothing for even devout worshippers despite the direct and illegal intervention of another god or goddess, or refuse to give spells for petty-ass reasons, leading to the destruction of entire sections of their faith by rival faiths...

Enough to make you consider that they've been finding sales at the wall more useful than allowing the normal flow of souls to function properly... And to remember that they can literally just choose what alignment they count as despite their acts.

The kind of act that inevitably attracts some epic level attention.

>>49983068
It's nice, sure, but it's still tohit bonuses that your martial buddies don't really need. Properly built melee strikers miss very infrequently as it is.

>>49983099
even on the tail end of a full attack?

>>49983104
Initiators usually don't do those or get full BAB on each hit because of course they do.

>>49983121
yes, but initiators using single-attack strikes have everything riding on one attack, making missing effectively as good as being crowdcontrol'd that turn.

>>49983171
True, but their rolls are fuckhuge already without need for help.

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>>49982378
But they didn't do it at the cost of the rest of her character, which most people who make gender into a character's theme go well beyond doing.

Ripley was a badass, and when she started protecting that little girl it felt normal; perfectly natural. As in why wouldn't she take care of an unarmed innocent, she's a badass, she can handle this shit. You expect heroes to protect kids. It's what they do, no matter their first name is Arnold or Ellen.

Just like Samus in the first three games, Ripley just *happened* to be female.

That's as far as you can get from a certain dwarf in baldur's gate.

>>49983070
so gods are assholes and utterly petty and imcompetent.

>>49983297
They're extremely powerful though, so it's that incompetence you see in CEOs and tinpot dictators, as opposed to the incompetence you see from the chucklefuck trying to convince you you have to get the expensive package from geeksquad to protect you from windows bigtits virus 2000.

You know how Dragon bloodline Sorcs can take Dragon Desciple to be even more Dragon-ey

Is there a prestige class an Aasimar Inquisitor can take to be more angel-ey without being constrained to lawful good? I just want to live my NG life and slay demons

>>49983323
Could someone liek baba yaga dethrone a god in a circumstance?

>>49983367
probably not because the god can always just retreat to their own realm where their power is "i win in my own pocket universe", but she could probably force'em to stay holed up in there indefinitely. And that could spell trouble when worship starts dwindling.

>>49983382

Gods are at their most vulnerable in their own realm, that's how Desna's mentor was killed, that's how Nocticula has such a high demon lord kill rate, and it's why you can only truly kill Deskari in WotR if you follow him into the Abyss.

Ok with each adventure module, whats hte canon outcome for each? I am guessing ' the bad guy loses' as most of the time if they own it would screw up golarion as in the baba yaga modules.

>>49983490

Most APs create a problem than solve it in a semi-contained campaign arc, however what solving it entails depends on the story.

There are plenty of campaigns that present "what-ifs" should the PCs fail at something; if Ameiko dies, if Nyrissa bottles up the Stolen Lands, if Deskari breaks through the Worldwound. Most campaigns even have after-action campaign hooks, like fixing Minkai after the Jade Regent is usurped or uniting the broken kingdom of Brevoy after Choral the Conqueror returns.

>>49983323
>windows bigtits virus
They should release it sooner.

>>49983297
That mostly stems from writers leaving everything in the hand of PCs. If gods were as active and powerful as they should logically be, there would be not much left to do. It's like with the Elminster. And remember that you don't exactly have to be a saint to count as "faithful". Simple farmer beleving in Chauntea and participating in her festivals is faithful even if he doesn't spend much of his time worshipping her otherwise. Logically speaking, there is no much reason to be an atheist in D&D besides excessive pride.

>>49983544

>They should release it sooner

Increasing the cup size beyond E causes fatal errors.

>>49983535
I remember hearing something along the lines of, every adventure module after X is non canon.

>>49983435
Demon Lords aren't gods, though.
And yes, that's where you can kill a good permanently, but that's like saying "you can kill the level 20 wizard permanently by going into his personal demiplane and defeating him despite everything he can throw at you after he saw you coming and had a whole week to prepare.

It ain't easy. It's just that anywhere else it don't happen, that was just an avatar/simulacrum/whatever.

>>49983584
640CCs ought to be enough for anybody.

>>49982721
>One of the greatest tragedies of the setting is Paizo trying to reject gender roles being a thing in the setting, when they're an excellent way to further delve into a character and their mindset.
Maybe, but I don't think it's that bad. Gender roles can help with roleplay, and make things very interesting, but to have it hardcoded into a setting can be a turn off. I think a better option would've been to have it gender neutral and then have optional roleplay suggestions for dms/players who want them.

>>49983588

You heard correct, the only story with a canon ending is Rise of the Runelords since Jade Regent and Shattered Star (or was it Second Darkness? Council of Thieves?) assumes you've met some characters and their circumstances have changed since Burnt Offerings.

Which, by the way, is the first book you should run if you want to do Jade Regent.

>>49983627

I personally won't accept anything more than a solid pair of E cups, it makes my computer sluggish but it's worth every bit of dedicated RAM.

>>49983633
I am confused. So what is canon than? like is baba yaga canon or is she non canon since the events of her modules are non canon?

>>49983584
Goddamnit Microsoft, I just want my big tits.

>>49983632
It would be smarter to go by region. If your weapons are mostly throwing, for example (spears and rocks in particular), then between that and the fact that women without magical help won't be able to go hunting for half a year at a time - and then someone needs to take care of the kids, pick fruits and prepare the furs,etc anyway - there's likely going to be a strong split of gender roles. It's not a BAD thing, and it's not SEXIST; human males are in fact better suited to throwing shit accurately (and with training it becomes the biggest ability gap between the two genders compared to any other activity, apparently) and not nearly as capable at picking berries out from afar (men are a little better at picking up movement, but can't actually pick up on the finer hue differences that women can).

In a more renaissance-level area, on the other hand, a woman's no worse with a pistol or rapier than a man if both are properly trained. There are far fewer specific roles beyond childrearing, and if you have enough money, chances are THAT is being left to wetnurses and nannies anyways.

Speaking of, that's a job that's generally very much unavailable to men; wetnurse. And that's exactly as (that is to say 0) sexist as saying women are better at gathering than hunting.

>>49983810
>human males are in fact better suited to throwing shit accurately
>and not nearly as capable at picking berries out from afar
They most certainly aren't in Pathfinder or DnD.

>>49983867
not in pathfinder character creation, but female adventurers (all adventurers, rather) are utterly out of the norm for anything of their species most of the time anyways, which blurs things.

The average adventurer even with basic 15pb is basically fit like a dedicated minor-league athlete, with above average coordination, understanding of the world around him, high intelligence, and the charisma of a local TV personality or better. This is not your average flower-shop owning marm or fermented-fruit-drunken tribal daddy. It's a death machine that ate the fucking bell curve.

>>49981928
And that's why Faerun is a shit world and FR is an ass setting.

>>49984045
I would've given the reason of all the god-characters running around banging actual gods. At least the wall of the faithless is kind of interesting.

>>49981892

To be truly false you need to shit all over your declared god's goals (Without ever abandoning worship of them).

To be truly faithless you need to actively reject the gods or somehow go through your life without ever moving a god's goals forward. A soldier who ever said 'Tempus protect me'? Yeah, he'll take you.

>>49984073
Also doesn't Kelemvor give you like a week after you die to worship a god so you don't get thrown into the wall? Guy's pretty lenient because I'm like 40% sure he hates the wall, it's just that AO is the over-jackass.

>>49984079

Yeah, Kelemvor hates the wall (It was introduced by his evil predecessor but it's a cornerstone of reality now) so he'll go very lenient on you unless you are a jackass.

Like one of the things he can do is go 'Yeah, this person didn't fulfil his purpose so I'm reincarnating him' (Easy to justify if you did nothing to earn any god) or he can declare that instead your job will be to serve in his city in some manner (Like as a guide to souls while they wait to be collected by a god). It's not the most comfy afterlife but it's not exactly torment.

>>49984073
>be powerful good archemage
>personally believe gods to be very powerful outsiders, not divine in origin
>spend my life spreading literacy, feeding the hungry, defending the defenseless.
>bring peace to races of the world
>world wide cultural Renaissance.
>Die at a ripe natural age of 113.
>get stuck in a wall because I didn't explicitly suck a """"gods"""" dick

>>49984114
>(It was introduced by his evil predecessor but it's a cornerstone of reality now)
It may have been introduced by Myrkul (I think?) but it's still there because AO wants it there. If AO didn't want it there it'd be gone.

Still, Kelemvor is totes a bro.

>>49984116

Mystra would almost certainly take that character unless he goes out of his way to turn her down. Or Kelemvor would declare your afterlife to be as an archivist and teacher in his city.

>>49984079
Reminder that when he took it down all of the gods, including the good wants pissed them selves and made him put it back up under threat of violence.

>>49984143
Well the gods in faerun get their power from worship, if the mortals don't have to worship them anymore then they stand to lose a lot of power. I can see why many of them wanted the wall kept for that reason.

>>49983357
Bump?

>designing 12th level character
>half-elf Summoner 11/Diabolist 1
>Take Skill Focus Knowledge (Arcana) & Eldritch Heritage Arcane for Sage Familiar
>Diabolist gives Imp that acts like an Animal Companion
>Summoner gives a Eidolon

So here is what I'm doing currently:
>Familiar is a Sage Familiar, and a Consular Imp with Improved Familiar, he handled knowledge skills, spellcraft, and appraisal
>Animal Companion Imp has Skill Focus (Stealth), Dampen Presence, etc. Handles Dex Skills
>Eidolon is Huge and spends the rest of the evolution points of full upgraded Fiendish Apperance (using half-elf FCB), uses it's few skills on Linguistics, Sense Motive, Profession (Barrister), and Perception
>Half-elf handles all Charisma based skills

Together they fight!

I was planning on having these four be a villain in an up coming game. As even him alone has enough action economy through the four of them + summoning to be a formidable enemy on his own.

As well, he has item creation feats and has spread some of his wealth among his companions to enhance them.

Besides that I have been wondering what else I should do with this guy? I'm liking how he has turned out so far. I only optimized his summoning to a point, but it does pretty well for itself (rod of giant summoning, augmented summoning, etc.)

>>49983357
>>49984180
Prestige classes (even DD) are usually pretty bad. If you want to be more angel-y as an Aasimar, just grab the Angel Wings feat. No idea if any other racial feats are any good, iirc they looked shitty.

>>49984143

Well, there was a lot of shitflinging from longtime Forgotten Realms Fans who hated the setting changing in any notable way. That's honestly the more truthful reason it's back up. I mean, they unkilled basically all the gods that died during the transition to 4e and undid an entire apocalypse like it was 5 mins to the end of the episode.

>>49984238
desu I want arrow seasons 3 and 4 to all have been coma dream sequences.

>>49984223
Thanks. I also saw there's an alternate racial trait for a halo

>>49984223
There are a few that are fine to good. Essentially for a caster any that has full caster level increase is at minimum decent.

For an alchemist the Master Chymist.

For martials they allow for a few highly specific strange builds, such as the Master Spy, Sleepless Detective, and Hellknight.

On a whole I say there are no PrC (bar a few like Evangelist) that are just pure "upgrades" to a class. They help you accomplish a specific concept.

>>49984260

I take it they've failed to impress?

>>49984285
People get applauded and congratulated as heroes for nuking cities.

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>my players get a new member to the party, rando that joined my table
>Gnome alchemist
>I'm still a fairly new DM, most players are core classes
>finish haphazardly setting up the character and skimming the alchemist section of the rules
>we're already an hour behind and I'd really just like to get the game going
>game starts, alchemist tries giving half-Orc wizard an enlarge person spell
>Wizard goes to pocket potion, Alchemist keeps telling him to drink it. The Wizard player looks at me sort of unsure if he has to drink it (asks if he has to roll), but I assure him he pockets the potion
>Gnome Rogue, who is party's de facto leader, rolls sense motive, I ask the alchemist what the potion is, it's a grow person potion
>tell Gnome Rogue it's just a harmless Gnome trick as Gnome tend to do. May cause some trouble but it's probably not poison
>Gnome Rogue tells Alchemist to fuck off, then the Human Monk decides to drink the potion causing him to grow in size

After that session, I went back to the book to figure out how alchemists work, realized my mistake, and will probably correct it next time we play. But can alchemists make potions others can drink? I realize their extracts only work on them, but surely they can make potions for their party members.

>>49984370
>But can alchemists make potions others can drink?
Yes, they are called infusions, it is a discovery.

>Divine bond can't be used several times in 1 minute each, no, it has to be 1 minute per paladin level
Why do I want to have 8 minutes that shit activated? combats don't last more than 1 minute, literally 100% of combats I'm wasting 6-7 minutes of that feature.

>>49982348
I do still love the fact that the edition changes are explained in-game as "holy shit some REALLY FUCKING MAJOR stuff happened now".

>>49984370
Their extracts only work on themselves (unless they take the Infusion discovery at level 2 or later), but they start with the Brew Potion feat. So, he can pass out potions of his spells, but those are going to cost gold to create.

>>49984289

...What, were they conquered by aliens or something?

>>49984399
Okay. Should I just use the potion creation rules in the core book for prices?

>>49984400
No, the super famous self-insert hacker awesome lady just redirected a bomb from a major city to a minor city. Therefore let's not mourn the death of everyone we just killed! Mind you she was, just a few episodes ago, saying Olly was bad for having killed people.

The arrow subreddit just gave up and made itself about daredevil.

>>49984370
>After that session, I went back to the book to figure out how alchemists work, realized my mistake, and will probably correct it next time we play. But can alchemists make potions others can drink? I realize their extracts only work on them, but surely they can make potions for their party members.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist

>At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist level as his caster level. The spell must be one that can be made into a potion. The alchemist does not need to meet the prerequisites for this feat.

>Brew Potion (Item Creation) - You can create magic potions. Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.

>Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures or objects. Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less, otherwise brewing a potion takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. When you create a potion, you set the caster level, which must be sufficient to cast the spell in question and no higher than your own level. To brew a potion, you must use up raw materials costing one half this base price.

>When you create a potion, you make any choices that you would normally make when casting the spell. Whoever drinks the potion is the target of the spell.


>Enlarge Person alchemist 1

Costs 25GP for an alchemist to brew a potion of enlarge person. It lasts 1 minute.

>>49984422
You need to check if he has infusion. If he does he can pass out his extracts for people to use.

Honestly your lot sounds paranoid, insular, and overall kind of backwards.

>>49984422
Yes, just keeping in mind that you can't make potions of spells with a target of "Personal", like the spell Shield.

>>49984274
Most of the issue with prestige classes, at least in my eyes, is just how you're shafted for multiclassing in pathfinder. Also the distressing lack of good synergy for a lot of stuff. Often there'll be a couple good combos, but they always require specific combos and leave you with tons of loose-hanging, superfluous abilities you can't trade away.

It's been two years since I got introduced to PF and Dragon Disciple still feels like a janky piece of shit. I still want to make one, but hate all the class combos leading up to it. Please kill me.

>>49984472
But you CAN make infusions of those.

>>49984426

...why not redirect it to out in the middle of the ocean or a BBC filming quarry or something?

>>49984483
Yes, but only if he has the infusion discovery.

>>49984480
>It's been two years since I got introduced to PF and Dragon Disciple still feels like a janky piece of shit. I still want to make one, but hate all the class combos leading up to it. Please kill me.
Most are janky. The thing is there are 100 prestige classes. They are are situational. I would say maybe 25 of them are worth it.

>>49984495
Because, and I can imagine this is the only reason, the writers started striking again so they hired the coffee retrieving interns to write the script.

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>>49984480

Even Magical Child Vigilante?

>>49984503
>it worked for the people in doctor horrible, it can work for us too!

>>49984471
I'll keep that in mind.

And yes my players are paranoid but I think it's more from their real life than anything. Most of them (sans one, my gf) sell or have sold drugs, so I think they're just wary of people offering them shit to just drink.

>>49984566
In a fucking game? If they can't separate real life and game then something is wrong.

>>49984426
I take it you missed the part where one of the new vigilantes is the last survivor of said nuked city and he constantly reminds her she fucked up. I get the writing's not the best, but it's not like it wasn't addressed. It's popular to shit on Arrow, though, so I don't even know why I'm taking the time to explain this. Also, not really Pathfinder related unless we're talking about builds.

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>>49984499
I just want to be able to have an effective "is manifesting dragon features that stick" with no bullshit time limits, damnit! Limited form of the dragon is acceptable, but at least let me keep my natural attacks!

>No way to patch CL for what us essentially a 7th-caster if I go all the way, aside from ONE trait
>No way to make the claws be at-will with no limit
>No way to make the shitty ass fire breath worth using
>Need to multiclass out the ass just to make CHA have any appreciable benefit aside from "is your casting stat" or be a blood arcanist and laugh at it I guess
>Will be MAD as fuck the whole way, so either fat as fuck PB or godlike rolls are mandatory
>Skills? What are those?

I can only pray that Jolly's dragon book will have something to sate my autism.
Or I can just homebrew something if I get a chance to go for it. My GM's a pretty cool guy, probably wouldn't mind.

>>49984665
I mean, a lot of stuff posted here isn't pathfinder related. And even the stuff that is we still have janitors that take it down.

>>49984579
You're saying they should just drink whatever people give them?

That potion didn't end up helping them and faded before they reached the dungeon. It was pretty in character for them to be suspicious of some random giving out potions.

>>49984708
Go with Bloodforge stuff or something?

Feral Fighter [Combat, Heritage]
You were born with - or developed - claws or fangs that you can use in battle.
Prerequisites: Aberration, dragon, fey, magical beast,
monstrous humanoid, or undead type and/or reptilian subtype.
Benefits: Choose bite or 2 claws. You gain the natural weapon(s) chosen, as normal for a creature of your size. You may not gain a natural weapon of a type you already possess
in this fashion.
Special: You may select this feat up to twice.

Ancestor’s Breath [Heritage]
You can tap into your ancestor’s elemental energy to breath that same energy upon your enemies.
Prerequisites: Aberration, dragon, magical beast, ooze, or undead type, and/or cold or fire subtype.
Benefits: Choose acid, cold, fire, electricity, negative energy, or sonic, then 30 ft. cone or 60 ft. line. You gain a breath weapon usable once every 2 rounds that deals 1d6/level damage of the chosen type. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your Hit Die + your Constitution modifier) halves this damage.

I want to be a Dark Souls.
How do I get automatic reincarnation as a martial?
Can non-spellcasters become liches?
Is it possible to become lich-like while staying Good in alignment?

>>49984924
Graveknights
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/graveknight-cr-2
Trying to attempt the ritual is kinda dedicating yourself entirely to evil though.

>>49984924
Skeleton Champion, refluffed as Hollow

>>49984935
>>49984986
How come angels don't have an option for this kind of thing?

>>49984986
But skeleton champions don't come back when slain.

How would you feel about a full BaB 4th level caster that could only use their spells while in a trance? Like the reverse of a bloodrager, conceptually. Is this a workable concept for a class, or is it ultimately doomed to failure?

>>49985046
Because Paizo are hacks, and apparently Pharasma must be someone's waifu there.

Personally, I think it would be cool to have a Good-Aligned Pheonix/Peri-esque template that makes you burn up when you die, but you are reborn after a certain amount of time or something.

Or, you could use that one Hollow Corruption some anon here made ages back.

>>49985098
The class would need to have good class features, incentive to actually want to trance, while also a capacity to still be somewhat useful outside the trance.

Also, it depends on the type of casting as well.

Could one pull a illidan and consume a outsiders power to gain it or become like them?

>>49985098
That entirely depends on mechanics. If the trance gives them swift action buffs, or bfc, or similar then it's probably fine.

>>49985098
Full BaB means they won't need the help of spells in combat.
Unless the spell list has zero utility they're just going to trance out of battle to cast utility spells.

>>49984260
Season 5 is actually really good so far

>>49985156
And then you remember the selling point is "Only 40% of our show is complete shite."

>>49984708
You know there is a way to have continuous Form of the Dragon, right?

Is Step Up chain worth picking on a monk? or at least the first feat?

>>49985098
>martial/caster that has not synergy
Take that away from here, we already have CBR monk, we don't need more classes which features work against each other.

>>49980613
Sign me the fuck up famalam.
But seriously, you need to the right group for this. I can definitely see fun times to be had in hunting down (semi) unique monsters for their bit and pieces. But I'm the kind of person who already likes Monster Hunter and that sort of thing.

>>49984906
There's totally ways to do things I want, I'm still just stuck tunnel visioning on Dragon Disciple for some reason.

>>49985214
I know it's technically possible to just craft a "Mask of Continuous Form of the Dragon x" at a reasonable-ish price, but feel free to enlighten me on other ways to do so. That wasn't really the bit I was super focused on, admittedly.

>>49984716
>Janitors
>Doing work
Choose one

>>49985330
>I know it's technically possible to just craft a "Mask of Continuous Form of the Dragon x" at a reasonable-ish price, but feel free to enlighten me on other ways to do so. That wasn't really the bit I was super focused on, admittedly.
Get a ring of continuation and a spell tattoo of shapechange. That way you don't need custom items any more than all spell tattoos being custom.

>>49985349
The janitors do work... eventually. And when they do they take a hatchet to the topic and remove posts that are even on topic. From posters who didn't post anything else that was off topic.

>>49985110
Lets say arcane casting without having to worry about ASF.

>>49985117
Is bloodrager the only example of a class with full bab abd fourth level casting that had that sort of free spell buffing?

>>49985118
What is necessary to incentivize combat casting over out of combat casting?

>>49985269
Its homebrew, anon. Synergy can be added as needed

>>49985399
>Lets say arcane casting without having to worry about ASF.
in which type of armor?
Also, what would the spell list be like?

>What is necessary to incentivize combat casting over out of combat casting?
Bonuses applied while in the trance both to combat, concentration checks (or similar), and possilbly to some other aspect of the casting (like Touch Attacks, saves against single-target effects, or maybe even casting time)

>>49985456
Light armor with a slightly beefed up bloodrager list. Im open to other lists though, that was just my first choice

>>49985487
>Light armor with a slightly beefed up bloodrager list
Bruh, you may as well play a magus instead. Bloodrager has a weak spell list that's only suited for combat, which is redundant since as a Diet Barbarian he's already good at combat.

What exactly is the theme/fluff behind this class you're working towards? Also what Casting Modifier would it use?

>>49985512
Im the guy who was doing the bloodborne homebrew, working on an archetype for casting.

I could do a custom list, but Id prefer to avoid all that work for an archetype.

Its an Intelligence based class so INT casting.

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>>49980613
>Malachite
>Low Quality
I will cut you!
You know that Malachite is pretty rare, and expensive when you do find it, right? That's because its a Copper Carbonate based gem, which makes it a valuable source of copper that has been mined since the days of Ancient Greece.
This gem is squarely a +2 gem.

>>49985567
I'm unfamiliar with your homebrew project, however having played a lot of Bloodborne, I'd say a Caster Hunter would be mechanically very close to an Occultist. I suggest looking there for inspiration.

Which of the Martial Traditions would you guys recommend for justifying big Spellcraft and Kn (Arcana) bonuses on a Warder?
No caster in the party so I've taken it upon myself to be the guy who identifies magic items, yells "Fireball! Hit the deck!" and etc.
I can base my magic knowledge off, like, traveling with a Wizard but it feels a bit cheap. Having a tradition to weave my backstory around would be great.
So, ideas?

>>49985602
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NW98K-_vTEnS5ELs6UEZgu2WyMX0-hwrfEoMKGdUXlE/edit?usp=drive_web

>>49985583
But it isn't shiny or refractive!

>>49985618
Cagebreakers for Elemental Flux

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>>49985304
Cool. Building up a set of creatures with valuable parts is going to take awhile but overlaying their materials and bonuses on the piecemeal system(s) should actually be pretty straightforward.
>>49985583
I'm sorry, gem qualities are ripped straight from PF's suggested pricing. I didn't want to fuck with it too much, though it's clearly lacking. Some cool gems aren't even listed!

>>49985660
Swarovsky pls go and stay go. You sell overpriced glass, and your displays in Austria do nothing but give me a headache

>>49985618
The Fool's Errand tradition not only doesn't mind if you've joined another tradition, but lets you always take 10 on knowledge/spellcraft checks to identify spells or maneuvers.

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>>49985350
Oh, huh, didn't know that actually. It'd still require 9th spells, though, which sucks.

Man, talking about Dragon Disciple makes me want to go try to homebrew just a full class that just has what I want from it, even if it is completely unnecessary.
7th level spells max with 3/4th BaB, d10 HD, 4+Int Skills, mainly aimed at Str/Cha, good idea or terrible idea?

>>49985618
Seconding what >>49985707 said, The Errant Fools are a great group to join for martials that want to be skilled at identifying magic, either to use it themselves or to fight against it.

>>49985618
Be an ex-member of the Quills
Sure, you'll be hunted down for betraying/leaving them, but you get to keep Cursed Razor and your bonus to Knowledge Checks.
Plus it gives you and your GM some plot-point fuel

>>49985818
>Keeping bonus to knowledge checks after leaving the quills

I don't think it works that way anon

>>49985882
>A Quill that violates her oath loses her profane bonus on Will saves, but does not lose her access to the Cursed Razor discipline and her bonus on Knowledge
Straight from the entry

>>49985915
Well I'll be damned, I didn't think it would have a specific exception.
My bad.

>>49985944
It also has this gem
>Unlike most martial traditions, a Quill who ceases to be evil-aligned is not considered to be violation of her oath.
So he probably doesn't even have to leave the Tradition unless he wants to.

>>49984665

One character reminding you of a fuck-up does not and should not be a valid way to wrap up a major mistake you committed that was, for all intents and purposes, basically mass murder.

That is the type of thing that should define a character, haunt them even, there should be an entire season dedicated to dragging yourself out of whatever guilt caused by the thing. Nuking hundreds of thousands of innocent people should NEVER be played off as "one guy's got a valid grudge I guess."

Anyone got a link to the new Curse of the Crimson Throne complete book?

You have the choice of having a custom adventure path made in a custom setting.

You get to choose the following:
>Three Themes for the Setting
>Three Themes for the Campaign
>Three NPCs that will appear prominently

What do you choose? (feel free to specify as few or as many as you want)

>>49986592
The themes of the setting are the corruption and greed of the bourgeois, the destitute state of the land at their immoral disregard for their subjects, and the unjust suffering of the comodified masses. The themes of the campaign are the inevitable call of revolution, the strength of the proletariat, and the righteousness of the cause. The NPCs that will appear are a slothful and evil old king holding fast to his old traditions and hoarding the means of production, a brilliant revolutionary leading the charge and spinning the wheels of change, and a successor not noble of birth but of spirit destined to take the throne and establish Communism.

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>>49986757
>The campaign and cause collapses within 2-5 years after the old king is overthrown due to massive famines and shortages of all major resources due to a loss of economic incentive for the production of goods under a public-goods system due to the national collective action problem.
>The PCs end up resorting to methods just as exploitative of the proletariat as the previous bourgeois, if not more so, and they are forced to abandon their dreams of communism in order to privitive to a small group of land/resource owners consisting of only 2% of the population that are expected to provide for the rest of the 98%, all the while they are publicly demonized by the very Communist government that empowered them.
>The whole system eventually collapses, as in order to remain a viable global/economic power they are forced to leave their system of brutal Autarky in an attempt to prove their superiority to the world, only for the stress of a global non-federally monopolized to cause their system to collapse on both an economic and social level.
I love your taste is tragedies, friend.

>>49986757
I actually made a setting where the main country had thrown down the nobility some 30 years prior is the Great and Bright Cultural Revolution, but had instead set up a system of Enlightened Masters and position by enunciated skill & possession (essentially artisans, turned politicians, ruled the country and property ownership gave one the right to vote and citizenship).

So they went the opposite direction of communism.

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>>49986989
So Athens?

>>49986989
So the U.S. pre-Jacksonian Populist Democracy?

Does anybody have an annotated map of Tian Xia?

Where the fuck do you intellectuals keep coming from?
Where's the shitposters?
The thread quality is unacceptably over par.

>>49986347
I am also interested in that,it might help you that a few threads ago somebody posted stats for a few major character

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>>49987132
I always lurk here. I just only post when needs, such as when some pinko needs the flaws of Communism pointed out to them, or when someone needs some theology explained a bit, or anything else miscellaneous really.

Other than that, I occasionally make homebrew content, but I mostly lurk and enjoy the entertainment value of watching the lewd/cute posters have fun and act like lovable retards.

>>49986592
Going to make some schlocky setting up on the spot then, for the setting themes I'd go with:
>gods don't like mortals having not-divine power because in the past it has fucked the planes and the planet up
>mortals really want power through any means necessary because fuck those holy assholes
>there's only a handful of cities left on the planet through centuries of wars and monsters are becoming more numerous by the day

Then for the campaign themes:
>wizards warring with religious groups
>exploring the ways power can corrupt someone through interacting with both sides of the war
>how the growing population of sentient ''monsters'' is involved in all of this.

The NPCs would be:
>young wizard who is working as an ambassador to get the monsters on their side
>older cleric who lost their holy powers due to violating their god's rules but still champions their cause
>leader of the monsters who might be or might not be a rogue god who gave up divine magic

>>49986592
Setting:
Space, High-fantasy, CYBERPUNK
Campaign:
Fighting the power, Doing wrong to make right, Criminalized by those who you protect.
NPCs:
True AI, Business-man Lich, Dirty fighting mercenary who seemingly is always hired by the enemy, with at least one scene where he's not.

Dog fighting in space, boarding enemy ships, fighting sword to laser gun on planets and ships, carving a path through the criminal world and the business one to make the world a better place; even if the world will hate you for it.

>wotr still hasn't said whose in

fuck me

>>49986592
Setting
>World War X has happened, ended up in mutually assured destruction. Only small packs of mortals live
>Gods came down to protect the faithful, but lost some of their powers in the process. Still gods, but no longer distant and untouchable.
>The land is poisoned, save the cities. The miasma corrupts all into horrific monsters, to which there is seemingly no end.

Campaign
>Takes place around an old wizard tower used in the war.
>Goes up and down, with above being completely explored and taken over by the locals, with beneath infested with miasma and the wizard's enchantments, which re-arrange at random like that one wizard's mountain in Faerun.
>Players take apart of one of the many guilds who brave the miasma to bring back goods and resources from the ever-changing dungeon below.

NPCs
>Goddess of their small guild, a minor power even before the calamity. Is legitimate, but no real powers. Offers sage advice.
>Gods of other guilds, looking to steal the players for their own or otherwise seize power in this tiny town.
>Ghost of the wizard of the tower, who is trying to send a message, but what it is, no one knows.

Game of thrones meets DanMachi.

>>49987176
I'm just wondering, how likely would Desna be to go insane if she met an eldritch abomination? Would she maintain her sanity?
Is she an eldritch abomination?

>>49986592

>3 setting themes
Magitech Ruins
Fading Gods
Shifting Geography

>3 campaign themes
Exploration/Discovery
Base/City building
Alliances

>3 NPCs
Princess Kiandra, heir to the throne of Stamos, the sky city. Her adventuring parents founded the flying city, mostly skyships with a single skyland upon which the castle is built. Now in possession of a map capable of fixing locations on it into permenance, she tasks the party with filling it in, finding allies and brokering trade arrangements. She hopes to impress a merchant prince her family has traded with before, both for political and personal interests, asks the party for advice sometimes.

Daon Lygrath, ragebred skinwalker and retired adventurer. Still happy to provide counsel to the party, he can always be found at one tavern or another gambling and discussing different sorts of alcohol with anyone willing to listen.

Raadi Abdella, oracle to spirits of the air. He accompanies the party to keep journies smooth and ensure their skyship operates properly, but tries to avoid combat due to his slight build and focus on healing and support magic.

>>49987015
>>49987082
Some weird things were this:
The royal family (the Archduke) had powerful sorcerous blood and belonged to the Imperious Bloodline. The Enlightened Masters deemed this important to keep and an asset to the nation. The Archduke himself had his arms removed as that he may never again "Raise his Hands Against the People", however they still required of him his blood and power. They basically put him into a breeding program, took the children, and trained them. This gave birth to The High House of Krel, which amounted to a hardcore magical military force made up of at first the Archduke's bastards and then his forcibly born sons/daughters (they used artificial insemination and now out of roughly 1200 children ~600 had some blood showings).

When the Archduke died, eventually thwarting his guards and committing suicide via an overcomplicated scheme involving teaching himself stilled/silenced spell and immolating himself during the yearly festival to honor his casting down (he would be paraded in front of the populous to have stones thrown at him), his natural born son took the throne (born to his late wife before the revolution). This involved having his arms cut off as well and now he is the Archduke.

>>49987082
In a way yes, and in others no.

>>49986592
>>Three Themes for the Setting
The unreliability of memory
The unreliability of the enviorment
The unreliability of gods .

>>Three Themes for the Campaign
The unreliability of adventuring as a occupation
The unreliability of fishes.
The unreliability of tongues.

>>Three NPCs that will appear prominently
The unreliability of GEORGE
The unreliability of TIME
The unreliability of YOUR MOTHER.

>>49987438
>>49986989
Shit that sounds like an actually good custom setting. Most custom settings are poorly thought out garbage.

How large of a city do you think is required before you can have an entire adventure (level 1-18 like an AP) all within the confines of said city?

50k people? 100k? 1 million? More? Less?

>>49986592
>>Three Themes for the Setting
Antiquity
"The Past shapes the Present"
The meaning of what is "True" divinity and who has it
>>Three Themes for the Campaign
Exploration
Duty vs Desire
Seeking the Truth
>>Three NPCs that will appear prominently
The old, one-eyed adoptive father of one of the PCs who's a veteran from the last War of Expansion
The one-handed Chieftan/Elite Warrior who wrought much havoc during the War, but has chilled considerably and may be either an aid or font of wisdom for the party.
An Archivist from the Ecclesial Academia who thinks it might be a good idea to follow and record information from your party, and possibly convince any with natural magical aptitude to seek formal training and education from the Academia.

>>49987461
Hidetaka Miyazaki pls

>>49987399
Well, considering she is kinda from beyond the stars, accidentally caused the birth of a cosmic parasite, and only became a deity later after her mentor got ate my Lammashtu, I'd say that's a complicated question.

I'd wager on the side of either Ayy-God, or incredibly minor and unusually benevolent Nascent Great Old One who set up shop on Golarion after choosing to learn from one of its local Gods.

So, her response to encountering a proper Eldritch Abomination would probably be on a scale from "Immediately realize she's how and why she's fucked" to "Ah Hells naw! Get off it wanker!" pending on the caliber of said abomination. Considering she's somewhat alien herself, she would likely not suffer SAN Loss, but would still panic against the more powerful ones because she knows what exactly is wrong

>>49987520

I like to make massive city states based on Ancient Rome and Greece/Sparta. I have ran entire urban campaigns inside of cities from around 500k to 1MM people.

>Party puts their sheets up online for the GM
>Excited for the new game so I peek
>NG human Warder
>NG half-orc Warlord (me)
>LG elf Druid
>CN Dhampir Harbinger
Oy vey

>>49987640
So being an idiot I wrote a novel. I have considered transferring the binder full of notes into a setting book. How bad of an idea is this?

The main issues are that the only Pathfinder races there are in the novel are humans and something close to skin walkers. Besides them there are parasites that live in humans, several near human offshoots, and unique human offshoots created by metaphysical parasites that wrest control of humans that use magic. So I would have to stat everything but the unique. That and would have to include a corruption system for spell casters (if at least setting specific archetypes).

>>49987746
>Druid
>CN dhampir
whelp

>>49987438
lol arms

Why should I go Sohei1 instead of Brawler2 for my Enlightned Paladin?

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>>49987746
>LG
>Druid
u wot m8

>>49987746
>LG Druid
Wat

>>49986592
Setting
>Cataclysmic event reintroduces the supernatural to the world kinda like shadowrun
>monsters are running rampant/fantasy races are back
>humanity combines magic and weaponry to fight off monsters

Campaign
>Monsters sieging one of the human strongholds
>They are very tactical which surprises everyone
>Tasked to find out why and a way to stop them
>Travel around the mostly ruined city of NY looking for clues
>Each borough having a different aesthetic due to the monster inhabiting it


NPCs
>Angel who reveals that there are more than just what they've seen guide of sorts
>leader of monsters who only want to live in peace
>Human love interest for the players who they save from a cult

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>try to plot out a Dragon Disciple since I never actually built one all the way through, to see what homebrew I'd need to make the process feel less janky
>mfw realizing that unless I take only 5 levels in sorcerer before going DD I have worse spell progression than a 6th caster until high levels
>yet I'd still have shittier combat capabilities, and the ability score increases DO NOT make up for jack diddly squat

Shit's fucked much harder than expected.

>>49988029
DD was errata'd that is boosts the Draconic Bloodline for Bloodragers. That smaller spell casting progression doesn't matter quite as much.

At Bloodrager 5/Dragon Disciple 7 you have the following:
>8str/6con while raging & +4str/+2con while not

Bloodrager 12 you have:
>+6str/+6con while raging

You're actually straight better.

AND as a Blood Rager/Dragon Disciple you have Form of the Dragon 1/day at that level, blindsense 30, AND +3 natural armor.

It's so fucking good, like god damn.

>>49988029
just play a draconic bloodline bloodrager

basically the same thing

>>49988111
Draconing Bloodline Bloodrager now gets advanced by Dragon Disciple.

You're just plain stronger than a normal Draconic Bloodrager.

>>49988145
Eh, there's upsides and downsides to both

In reality if you go DD mode you need to find a way to grab up more natural attacks.

>>49988179
DD gives you a bite attack. There is a hat that gives you a Gore.

Claw/Claw/Bite/Gore will see you through till you get Form of the Dragon where your nat attack cycle goes through the roof.

If you really want more then just necrograft/demonic implant on a sting attack, or hooves.

>>49988205
Yeah, but you loose bonus feats from the bloodline, and losing greater bloodrage kinda sucks cause no self buff as rage

>>49987292
I want to be a player for a non-PF dystopian cyberpunk game mixing The Protomen and Ghost in the Shell with a heavy and broad range of philosophical themes. Androids/AI, cyborgs, and humans all fight for their place in a decaying society and on the scales of transhumanism.
For my DMing though, Pathfinder dragon slaying is so much more manageable.

>>49986161
Now I can tell you haven't been paying attention. In just the last episode, Felicity told Ragman that what she did has been haunting her every night and she will have to live with the guilt of it forever. They may have buried the hatchet for now to do hero-stuff, but she is still almost literally haunted by the ghost of her mistake, her impossible decision the script forced her into.

Seems pretty character defining to me. We just have to see if the writers remember to keep up with it. (They probably won't.)

And again, not really on topic.

>>49988271
>Yeah, but you loose bonus feats from the bloodline
Dragon Disciple gets bonus bloodline feats. At DD8/Bloodrager 12 you have 6 total bloodline feats (bloodrager 6/9/12, DD2/5/8) as opposed to the Bloodrager's 5 (bloodrager6/9/12/15/18).

You have MORE feats.

>and losing greater bloodrage kinda sucks cause no self buff as rage
And if you are a DD 8/Bloodrager 12 you have a greater total than Mighty Bloodrage.

Mightly Bloodrager gives you +8Str/+8Con.

As Bloodrager 12/DD8 you have +10str/+8Con

If you take 5 levels of bloodrager, then 8 levels of DD, then 7 more levels of bloodrager you will at every level have a higher total bonus to your stats than just bloodrage.

You are literally wrong in both your points. The only thing you miss out on is a +1 to will saves from greater bloodrager.

Step it up m8

>>49988439
ah, i was wrong about the feats, but Mighty Bloodrage what i'm talking about is freely applying a 2nd level spell to yourself as part of a rage.

>>49988439
So let us compare Bloodrager 20 and Bloodrager 12/Dragon Disciple 8:

Bloodrager 12/Dragon Disciple 8
>Greater Bloodrage
>+4 inherent to Str
>+2 inherent to Con
>+2 inherent to Int
>Form of the Dragon 2
>Full bloodline Progression
>6 Feats
>+3 Nat armor
>Uncanny Dodge
>Fast Movement
>Improved Uncanny Dodge
>DR 2/-
>Blood Sanctuary
>Blindsense 30ft
>Extra Breath Weapon

>Bloodrager 20
>Mighty Bloodrager
>Full Bloodline Progression
>Fast Movement
>Uncanny Dodge
>Improved Uncanny Dodge
>Blood Sanctuary
>5 feats
>DR 5/-
>Indomitable Will
>Tireless Bloodrage
>+2 Caster Level

I really can't see a reason to go pure Bloodrager unless you really value 3 dr and 2 caster levels.

>>49988499
i suppose going the 8 levels of DD is the smart way, hadn't thought about it like that.

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>>49988108
>>49988111
I know of the Bloodrager thing, this was mostly just me going back to experiment with the "classic" thing. When I was new to pathfinder, I looked at DD and thought it was the "you're a half dragon, or as close as we'll let you get: the prestige class", ergo ALWAYS being dragon-y with the option to go FULL DRAGON a few times. I quickly realized that was false, and regretfully turned my attention away. Since then I've gotten interest piqued by various other things (eldritch scion magus, dragon mystery oracle, scaled monk) but nothing's delivered.

Biggest gripe with the Bloodrager Dragon Disciple is that you fuck up your rage progression so hard that you may as well have just gone straight BR. Biggest gripe with straight Bloodrager is... Well, anything dragon-y about you is tied to your rage. You HAVE to rage if you want any of your dragon features. It's functional, and I totally intend to play it at some point, but it just never clicked.

>>49988480
Greater Bloodrage allows you to apply a 2nd level or lower. Mighty Allows up to 4.

However you're already applying Form of the Dragon 2 when you change.

Haste you should already be getting from boots of haste.

Really 3/4 level spell is worth losing all these benefits? from >>49988499

>>49988527
ahh.

>>49988523
>Biggest gripe with the Bloodrager Dragon Disciple is that you fuck up your rage progression so
You mean in number of rage rounds?

That really is the only problem with this combo. At level 12 or so your number of rage rounds can be limiting at times, HOWEVER you should have enough Con that you can get through your encounters per day without ever having to choose to not rage.

Are there any ways to prevent being hit with Nat 20s in PoW? They're uncounterable after all.
I think the 3rd level Sleeping Goddess stance works for that, right?
Is there anything else relatively accessible?

So this is an experience I've had with PoW. It doesn't play nice with base pathfinder on either the side of casters or martials. For martials it is obvious that they are merely severely outperformed. However, in combat, I find casters when against PoW enemies (NPCs who are PoW) die extremely easily (the efficiency that PoW characters are able to both defend themselves and dispatch and enemy is beyond that of a caster when not highly optimized) and when PoW characters are facing caster enemies the same occurs. The casters still outshine the PoW character in out of combat utility, and only outperform the PoW character in combat in terms of battlefield control (debuffing, buffing, damage are all outperformed).

This is a pattern I have seen between half a dozen groups with more than a dozen set of characters and numerous NPCs I have built.

When put against an enemy with PoW a caster dies if the PoW character is at all competent. This is because most PCs don't have debilitating quickened spells at the ready, and thus when an enemy has a counter that allows him to use skill to save he has effectively neutralized one of the casters.

Of course there are ways around this, such as summoning specialized casters, but even in this case I find that the PoW character simply bypasses the summons and kills the caster (through a number of methods such as veiled moon or shattered mirror movement based abilities & charge strikes in Primal Fury and Piercing Thunder). How does one reconcile this on both the side of a GM making NPCs with class levels and as PCs with both PoW characters and Paizo.

Even worse is when the party members are not full casters. Bards, Inquisitors, Magus and Alchemists are all severely outperformed in combat by PoW characters, and can not contribute nearly as well in battlefield control, one of the few areas PoW lacks, and thus can only have a presence in OOC utility.

>>49988718
you're an idiot steve.

>>49988718
I went through this myself too.
I found it funny that they still couldn't do shit to encounters like Tucker's Kobolds.
Except run, half-dead and crying.

Wow, just saw the EZG reviews for some of the DSP monster classes, and they're getting trashed.

>>49988741
Steve may be an idiot, but ramping powerlevels up is only serving to exacerbate rocket tag game design and further limit decent encounter design.

>>49988793
They ARE pretty shit, tho

>>49988788
> Tucker's Kobolds.
Because Tuckers Kobold's exist soley to screw with the player.
>>49988741
Those are all legit complaints about PoW though.

It makes all but the MOST CANCEROUS casting styles utterly irrelevant. You either need to be a buff monkey or start wish spamming/chain binding outsiders to be relevant as a caster in a PoW.

As for "counters negate casters" include more casters bait players into using up their counters.

>>49988550
Fair enough. Again, Bloodrager into DD looks like it works and I'll probably give it a shot sometime, it just isn't... Quite what I wanted from Dragon Disciple. I looked at the prestige class hoping for an end result of a natural attacking midcaster, and instead I got a vaguely dragon shaped disaster that runs out of breath really easily.

>>49988840
prestige classes don't really work in PF

>>49988833
no it doesn't

Like thats just absolutely not true

>>49988741
>you're an idiot steve.
Please explain how. What of my points are incorrect?

>>49988788
Tucker's Kobolds is a conceptual "fuck the players" encounter design and doesn't belong in actual games.

>>49988796
I mean, sure, one can limit enemies so that they don't actually try and win, but that feels highly disingenuous. Enemies should not be built like minmaxed PCs (though I would argue PCs should not be built like that either), but instead products of their backstory and nature (again I would argue PCs should be built like this to). However once an encounter begins unless there is a compelling reason not to it feels fake to have a NPC with PC levels (which while not the most common enemy type do exist in large number in nearly every campaign) should try and come out victorious.

>>49988833
>Those are all legit complaints about PoW though.
I thought so as well, I am unsure what is wrong with my points.

That bloodborne homebrew seems pretty nifty. What do other anons think about it?

>>49988931
What part of it is not, and why? You have to explain yourself with something more than casual dismissal.

So our party is going to fight a litch. I think we have it's phylactery, but we don't have it yet.

How should we go about this?

>>49988986
Casters are higher tier not because they blast with spells, if you think that you're dumb

They're higher tier because they can solve in-combat and out-of-combat problems with spells, and provide powerful buffs and debuffs to ensure the party wins, including plenty of save or dies or save or sucks

That isn't even talking like hardcore optimized. Casters were never good because of 'LE DPR SLAUGHTER' but because they have a much much bigger bag of tricks than anyone NOT caster

Bards inquisitors magus and alchs compare pretty decently with POW classes, especially bards. Yes some POW classes offer similar things but its not like they invalidate the existence. Its not a CoDzilla problem.

>>49988718
You DARE criticize PoW in DSP Circlejerk General? Your days are numbered, boy. PoW is perfection, are you saying you support the CASTER SUPREMACY?

>>49989046
PoW isn't perfection but it doesn't invalidate the vast number of 6 casters, especially not cha based ones like skalds and bards cause umd lul

>>49989037
>Bards inquisitors magus and alchs compare pretty decently with POW classes, especially bards.
Holy fucking what?

Was there an errata released recently that nerfed most POW classes into the ground or are you talking out of your ass?

>>49988883
Hence being disappointed by it? I've honestly considered just homebrewing something to go with it that props it up into something functional, but at that point I likely may as well just homebrew an entirely new class.

>>49989073
you seem to be the one talking out of your ass

>>49989037
>They're higher tier because they can solve in-combat and out-of-combat problems with spells, and provide powerful buffs and debuffs to ensure the party wins, including plenty of save or dies or save or sucks
Did you even read what I wrote? I said casters still reign supreme in utility, that was never called into question. However they are far less efficient in combat at actually downing enemies than PoW character and much worse at defending themselves.

>That isn't even talking like hardcore optimized. Casters were never good because of 'LE DPR SLAUGHTER' but because they have a much much bigger bag of tricks than anyone NOT caster
Literally where did I say this? Did you just begin autistically raging before reading the entire post?

>Bards inquisitors magus and alchs compare pretty decently with POW classes, especially bards. Yes some POW classes offer similar things but its not like they invalidate the existence. Its not a CoDzilla problem.
In play I have seen all three highly outperformed in combat by PoW characters both in terms of defense and offense with PoW being varied enough to accomplish any required tricks in combat (and their bag of tricks being nearly the same size as 6th level casters) while also being simply better at offense and defense for the same cost.

>>49989102
brew an archetype.

>>49989112
>less able to down enemies and defend themselves

Yeah whatever

Define highly outperformed. And note that Bards/inquis/alchs have out of combat tricks too

Maguses are basically only in existence to nova so.

>>49988962
>Enemies should not be built like minmaxed PCs (though I would argue PCs should not be built like that either)
These things really need to go hand in hand. If your players are optimized high functioning operator wizards blasting castles to shreds at level 3, then throw Tucker's Kobolds at them. That's the kind of kill or be killed game they play so their enemies should too. If they build flavorful unoptimized characters (or "trash that doesn't belong in my game", as /pfg/ refers to them) then the world's design philosophy should reflect their own, with goblins taking cooking skills over stealth sometimes, a bandit attached to his shitty fragile obsidian blade because it looks cool.

>>49989151
the only trash that doesn't belong in my game is the chained monk

>>49989058
umd lul doesn't mean anything when there are charisma based PoW characters (zealot & warlord).

In terms of defense PoW characters, due to counters, are much better at defending themselves and their party. Defensive focuses PoW classes (zealot and warder) are better at defending their party than any Paizo class (yes even full casters), but simply have a narrower scope (a zealot is able to suppress a large number of debuffs, negate damage, heal damage, and activate counters through allies) this is very iron clad. A warder can activate multiple counters during their turn, which as well is a better defense than any other class. This is great for them. However when you try and build a counter for let us say a Warder and a Bard there comes a problem. If you are to threaten the Warder you must up the game on offense, but because the Bard's defense suite is simply worse there is a good chance the Bard will die to the same onslaught.

So unless the enemy refuses to use their abilities against all of the PCs and instead tailor the level of offense to the PC the encounter design falls apart.

>>49989164
Yes Bards and Warders have different capabilities and bring incredibly different things to a party

Are you retarded?

Non-PoW martials are boring. The problem is with the casters. Their balancing around spells per day and quadratic power creep means that spells are all they can meaningfully have. Their progression and resource renewal should be more like initiators, and they should then have meaningful class features making them actually distinct from one another.

>>49989190
we get it you don't like vancian casting.

>>49988833
>As for "counters negate casters" include more casters bait players into using up their counters.
Here's the problem with that though. In an ideal scenario, 4 PCs should have an equal fight against 4 equal-level casters. You're suggesting that in order for it to work, you need to have between 5 and 8 casters total to even make a dent due to counters. That's assuming it's just save replace counters too, not ones that let them move next to one of the casters, or turn invisible, or just become immune to magic.

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>>49989116
I'm indecisive on which class to use as a base, so if I did that I'd end up just making a books worth of archetypes, though.

Guys I really need some advice with an issues here,

In my current game we have a player who is playing a LE ninja/assassin and the campaign is coming to a close. The GM now wants to run a homebrew that I really want to play a LE ninja/assassin but I don't want to just come across as playing the same thing.

>>49989218
Given that you're looking for a nat attacking 6 caster, probably magus based or skald based

>>49989151
>If your players are optimized high functioning operator wizards blasting castles to shreds at level 3
I would argue against this simply because I know when I begin the PC/NPC arms race I end up winning. I am better at character optimization than my players and I would rather not force them to create hyper optimized PCs in order to compete with me, or I to them. I would rather flavorful PCs who choose abilities to fit the character and would not like to "rise to the bait" of bringing to bear minmaxing against minmaxing and instead choose to talk to my players to not minmax.

>>49989137
> And note that Bards/inquis/alchs have out of combat tricks too
No really, are you not reading what I am typing?

6 level casters have out of combat tricks, with PoW characters have far less of. However in terms of defense (negating attacks/spells, boosting their saves against attacks/spells) a bard has far less than a PoW character because of how Counters are designed. In order to challenge a PoW character's defense you need a greater offense, but when this offense is used against a character with a worse defense suite (most 6th level casters) then end up pushed much farther (often to death). So unless the enemies tailor their attacks to particular PCs the encounter design fails.

On the offense side a bard for instance is much worse at killing a single enemy than most PoW characters. This is due to multiple reasons, their relying of full attacks for damage, and the fact their DCs are lower both due to only being 6th level casters, tight feat budget, and more MAD ability budgeting.

>>49989207
I don't, no. It is a fundamental part of game balance though. D&D and its derivatives are some of the only games that employ vancian casting and give such limitless power to spellcasters.

>>49989106
>no u
I'm not the one claiming that anything not POW can stand up next to a POW character without seventh level spells

>>49989112
I'm 80% sure that we just triggered a fanboi. The canned responses and lack of reasoning gives it away.

>>49989178
>good reasons why pow is op
>but bards have spells dude u dumb
Just stop man. A bard can't hold a candle to a zelot until after he gets fifth level spells at least.

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So how's everyone's game going? What is your party like, composition-wise? What campaigns are you running or playing, or are they custom games?

>>49989240
Yes, we know a bard is weaker at killing something than a PoW character

This is not news to anyone.

No one is surprised by this.

This is unimportant. Bards aren't supposed to be as good at killing things as a PoW character. Why are you acting like they're supposed to be?

>>49989248
Cool play a different system then because vancian casting is pretty core to 3.5

No reason for you not to.

>>49989178
Across the board PoW character's defense is better than 6th level casters because of how counters work. Bards and Waders are an example, but the least defensive PoW class (Harbingers) have a better defensive suite than the best 6th level caster (bards actually are one of the best here with saving finale).

Personally PoW characters are far better at defending themselves than all 6th level casters. To challenge the defense of PoW characters you need to up the game, and 6th level casters can't keep up.

>>49989264
A bard is also weaker than a PoW character at literally everything else too.

Are the PoW employees posting without trips again?

>>49989264
But a bard is worse at buffing than PoW characters, has worse offense, and worst defense. The only thing a bard brings to a table over a Zealot or Mystic is OOC utility.

The fact that PoW characters bring nearly no OOC utility to the table, yet completely eclipse the bard's IC utility is a design issue.

>>49989253
Basically you're trying to say that Path of war is broken cause GOOD AT KILLING STUFF.

By that reasoning ragepounce barbarians are also broken because they're MORE GOODER AT KILLING STUFF

retard.

>>49989278
except they're not. Bards have a lot of out of combat utility

That a PoW character doesn't have.

>>49989276
Yeah Martials that are actually dangerous do require more dangerous enemies, the casters may have to actually move tactically and stay in the back line.

>>49989295
Are paizo forum retards posting on 4chan again?

>>49989264
I do when I can but sometimes the only offerings are D&D.

>>49989037
>Casters are higher tier not because they blast with spells, if you think that you're dumb

That's my point PATH OF WAR ENCOURAGES BAD CASTER PLAY BY ENCOURAGING PALEYRS NOT TO BLAST OR SUMMON BUT TO DO A BUNCH OF CAMPAIGN BREAKING OUT OF COMBAT BULLSHTI

>be gone for a while
>come back only recently
>PoW shitposting still going strong
Goddamn it guys I took a sabatical in hopes that the general would improve.

>>49989309
But blasting and summon was always bad caster play in the first place because it was BAD

>>49989319
>anything on 4chan
>ever improving.

>>49989304
well d&d isn't likely to improve any time soon.

>>49989303
A raging barbarian isn't half of what a PoW character can do. And yes, it IS a problem.

>>49989299
>The fact that PoW characters bring nearly no OOC utility to the table, yet completely eclipse the bard's IC utility is a design issue.
While I personally disagree with the design philosophy behind it, I think that's the whole point of PoW. Superpowered martials.

>>49989321
It could be okay with a little elbow grease, it just wasn't optimal.

Path of War makes it utterly irrelevant.

>>49989303
>Yeah Martials that are actually dangerous do require more dangerous enemies, the casters may have to actually move tactically and stay in the back line.
The thing however is "formations" do not matter in Pathfinder and anyone who things they do does not actually play the game at anything above 6th level. The ability to teleport for a PoW character is cheap and easy (as I explained before with charge strikes, teleportation boosts, hell the Harbinger is able to simply run between enemies and not provoke AoOs). If you are to challenge PoW character's defense a bard has nothing that can save him if the same level of offense if brought to bear against him. He will die because his defensive suite is that much worse.

>except they're not. Bards have a lot of out of combat utility
Yes, and that's the thing. The bard now ONLY brings OOC utility to the table.

Someone needs to make a pow bingo sheet. Here are some ideas for spaces:

>high damage numbers don't matter
>its fine because a wizard can cast wish in fifteen levels
>unkillable characters aren't a problem

>>49989299
>et completely eclipse the bard's IC utility is a design issue.
When was the Bard supposed to be the IC utility guy?
>>49989372
Path of War characters aren't unkillable though. Unless the only way you can kill a character is an instant kill Save or Suck.

>>49989299
Your use of OOC and IC here really fucked with my head

Out of combat utility and play is just as, if not more important than in combat utility and play, imo

>>49989349
At least someone gets it. The literal intention of PoW was MARTIALS THAT ARE SUPERPOWERED AND CAN PLAY ON CASTER'S LEVEL

If you don't like that.

Don't use it?

I don't like Spheres so I don't use that.

>>49989350
i disagree, when summoning gets good it usually breaks the game more

plus it slows down the game. Fuck summoning. Its really bad for the game's health.

>>49989365
>PoW
>unkillable

I feel like you don't actually play this game.

>>49989381
thank god

>>49989381
How do you kill a PoW character? An actually optimized one, not a retard that dumped Con and Wis and is wearing paper armor.

>>49989381
>a cr+7 encounter has a small chance to kill my character, so its fine

>>49989303
>a 5int 5cha barbarian can do almost as much damage, so its fine.

>>49989406
>SUPER OPTIMIZED CHARACTER MATH

oh boy I sure do love arguing about shit that doesn't actually happen.

>>49989417
Do you even play this game?

>>49989416
>I'm bad at encounter design abloo abloo abloo

Top tier shit homie.

>>49989349
It being the point doesn't make it good design. It invalidates everyone but optimized casters for IC utility while not bringing anything out of combat. This is simply bad design.

>>49989321
Essentially PoW makes everything but battlefield control as a combat casting style irrelevant. Buffing is worse, debuffing is worse, damage is worse, tactical battlefield control is worse (as in controlling singular enemies). The only thing a 6th level caster than brings is wide battlefield control (against multiple enemies).

This is not good. PoW needs slightly less IC utility and a lot more OOC utility to play nicely with tier 3 classes. Otherwise it essentially forces them to enter separate realms that can not interact. While Bards have a good OOC utility spell list there becomes an issue with an Inquisitor and a Magus, who have extremely limit OOC utility lists (or even battlefield control). They're not stuck not be able to contribute well OOC but are still eclipsed IC.

>>49989401
>MARTIALS THAT ARE SUPERPOWERED AND CAN PLAY ON CASTER'S LEVEL

But they go beyond caster level.

>>49989417
or how about actually normally built? Because they are still fucking invincible.

I also liked how you avoided answering the question.

>>49989429
Out of combat, no they don't

In combat I can see it.

>>49989406
You throw more than 1 enemy at him, usually with something that hits either Touch AC or otherwise is accurate. A character can only make use of 1 counter a turn unless they're a Warder of at least 5th level, and even then only once a combat; therefore, if you throw 9 3rd-level rogues at a 7th-level Warder, then even if he manages to kill 5 of them in a single turn (Reaping Strike two of them, Counter two more that moved in, kill one more on his next turn), the other four can now beat his ass in with sneak attacks and poisons; even if he counter-kills one or ignores a saving throw that one poison requires, the rest will be able to finish the job.

>>49989426
>you just need to make better encounters that properly challenge my OP pow bullshit

>>49989417
>optimized POW isn't gamebreaking because no one optimized POW

File: tumblr_oem6cjsPMe1u0cbvdo1_1280.png (684KB, 600x822px) Image search: [Google]

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Tieflings

>>49989427
>This is simply bad design.
That's my opinion as well but if others enjoy thing then thing is good for them. The world is full of people with shit taste. Just don't play their games.

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>>49989465

>>49989444
>implying 4 rogues can hurt a warder
>implying the warder won't just end them on the next turn
>implying that the warder probably surviving a gank that no one else could even hope to survive a single round is a point in your favor.

>>49989429
I missed the part where martials can summon demons, create demiplanes, and reshape reality.

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>>49989424
Do you?

Like in reality?

Cause most people don't actually play super optimized.

>>49989430
The same way you can kill anything else, they're not unstoppable. Apply yourself.

>>49989429
In combat sure

out of combat not even close.

>>49989427
Yeah, but PoW is literally all about WEEABOO ANIME SWORD FIGHTING EXTREEMEEE and is best used in KICK DOWN DOORS AND KILL SHIT the game.

I don't think PoW is perfect by any means, its got plenty of problems, but complaining that its good at combat is kinda hilarious given that was its design intention.

>>49989455
No one actually plays optimized anything.

In real games without sperglords everywhere.

They just don't.

Because its not fun.

>>49989465
tieflings?

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>>49989490
Tieflings.

>>49989483
It's balanced because a wizard can cast wish in 15 levels.

>>49989381
>When was the Bard supposed to be the IC utility guy?
He is a buffing character. That is one of the main concepts behind the class. However his ability to buff and variety of buffs can be eclipsed by a PoW character. Let us take the most dramatic example, a zealot.

A Destruction Zealot gives a larger bonus to Attack, Damage, and Skills at every level, and this is without using a single buffing manuver. A golden lion zealot simply laughs at a bard's ability to buff.

A Mystic as well has a enormous buffing suite.

Golden Lion by itself provide a wide variety of buffing abilities to compete with a bard without the need for outside class feature help.

>>49989401
>I feel like you don't actually play this game.


>Out of combat utility and play is just as, if not more important than in combat utility and play, imo
I think they are both extremely important, but a character should be able to do both and should be supported by class features to do both. If during combat half your PCs need to step back and twiddle their thumbs, then out of combat they switch places this is bad design. No PC should be able to cover every base IC or OOC, but they should have areas of specialization supported by class features (a face, a dex guy, a brains guy, etc for instance with OOC).

>I feel like you don't actually play this game.
A PoW character is not unkillable, I have never said this. They are simply much harder to kill than 6th level caster due to having a much poorer suite of class features to defend themselves with.