A good spearman will always shit on a good swordsman.

>>49966295
Depends on the battlefield and the armor between the two.

otherwise its pretty empty words.

>>49966311
Nah there is a reason why spears were so widely used even among samurai post 13th century and samurai didn't fight in tight formations so don't start this ''muh phalanx only weapon'' meme shit.

Swords are garbage like every non polearm melee weapon.

reach is very important, but if the swordsman closes in he's at a clear advantage unless they're both heavily armored
swords are much more manoeuverable, can cut as well as stab, and they can cause greater wounds
spearmen are better in mass that one on one combat, especially since spears some of the easiest weapons to use

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>the hour is upon us once more

The spearman and swordsman are engaged in a popularity contest. Your move.

>>49966370
>if the swordsman closes in
He won't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYKjoosrRRI

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Yeah, everyone remembers how the Roman Legion never won another victory after replacing the spear as its main weapon with a short sword.

Oh wait.

>>49966295
And yet, that's why they invented the zweihander. To chop the ends off spears to allow regular troops to close in.

>>49966388
>shitty tiny buckler
>1 hit anywhere on the body with any force is lethal
yeah, alright

>>49966413
>roman legions
>exclusively fight untrained unarmored barbarians
>good
Swordfags as usual.

>>49966424
>waaaa 1 hit isn't an instakill
>ignores how the swordfag was completely outmatched and couldn't touch the spearman
Typical.

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>>49966428
Ah, you're a troll. I see.

>>49966311
See, the thread could have ended here, but instead TG decided to become the dragon that eats its own tail and keep going in circles.

I don't know why some people thing TG was ever hard to bait. We like being baited, we like argument for the sake of such. Never change, brothers.

>>49966428
Carthage. Persia. both used spears and phalanxes as their main weapon. Don't talk about shit you don't understand.

>>49966428
Those same Barbarians who constantly BTFO of the Greeks so much the Greeks got buttmad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae_(279_BC)

Question, Why didn't Alexander the Great conquer North or West?

>>49966428
>Greeks
>Persians
>Egyptians
>Carthaginians
>Untrained barbarians

U wot Pleb?

>>49966370
>m-muh just get in close xD

aside from the fact that a spearman would have a secondary weapon for this exact fucking reason he could also simply change his grip

>>49966480
Dirt shit poor. No gold, no ancient rivalries to fix, no Glory to be had fighting opponents who will simply ambush you and raid constantly. Also, its cold up there.

Wow OP, you're right. You should go back in time and tell all ancient and medieval warriors who relied on swords that they were doing it wrong. I mean, how could they possibly know more than you about the topic? It's not like they ever had to actually use them instead of just browsing imageboards all day.

>>49966496
>Celts
>Whose Love of gold and Baubles allowed them to be bribed by the Roman Empire to frature them
>Don't have alot of gold.

>B-But my Ambushes MUH HONOR AND GLORY

So basically, Alexander the great was scared of the Gauls.

spear is a step above a club, it's an ape weapon. It's only benefit is that it takes 0 training.

>>49966564
Yet every proffesional soldier used one. I wonder why.

>>49966575
Except that's clearly not true.

Even in Cultures that venerated spears like the Irish and Britonnic celts and the Norse, the Spear was still classed lower than the Sword.

>>49966491
According to the greeks, three of those four were barbarians

>>49966564
Apes can't use spears. Their arms are hinged wring for the movements needed to do that.

>>49966413
that fucking song is now stuck in my head

>>49966589
According to the Greeks, the Gauls were Barbarians.

They Still Sacked Delphi after utterly bitch slapping the Greek Alliance like everyone did.

I mean, do people forget Rome conquered the Greeks before the Gauls?

>>49966588
Show me some of these weapon classes, show me a first hand source talking about these weapons.

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>>49966295
Get a load of this Barbarian

>>49966295
Dagger>your weaponfu

>>49966627
Well, easiest example I can use is king Arthur of brittonic legend.

Everyone knows the name of King Arthur's sword Excalibur and to a lesser extent Caliburn.

But hardly anyone remembers Rhongomynyad or it's christian name Ron.

>swordcuck arguments: WE WUZ ROMANS
>implying the Romans didn't use whatever weapon was best for a circumstance
>implying Romans only had one weapon
>implying spears weren't still more widely used than swords
Historical revisionism and autistic obsession with one imaginary "achievement". Literal BLM tier.

>>49966624
You speak about the greeks and the gauls as if they were a single group. The Romans conquered the cis-alpine po-valley gauls before they conquered the greeks of south Italy

>>49966537
>Celts. On the wrong side of dirt poor horsemen, mountain men and the germanic tribes to be present. Also, just because someone loves gold several hundred years after a figure, yes, they must have existed in exactly the same way. 340 BC. is not the same time as 40 BC. Which is when the romans began moving into Gaul.

>>49966387
For the time they were used the swordsman would be chosen for being the elegant, popular man. Meanwhile the spearman would be considered a terrible uncultured brute, especially if its publicly.
God forbid if he was carrying a halberd or any of the sort, he'd be thrown out of any sensible establishment.

>>49966575
>Proffesional
No. SPears are used by warriors who are not warriors all the time. Swords are used by the proffesionals, because it takes more time to train to use it.

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>>49966646

>>49966712
That's why knights used the lance as a primary weapon right?

>>49966295
No it won't. Look at the Macedonian wars were Roman swords men shit all over Macedonian spearmen

>>49966742
Lance. A weapon used for a single huge charge, which breaks upon impact.
Spear. A weapon designed not to break, and be used to poke things repatedly.
If you don't know the difference between a spear and a lance, don't try to argue they are the same.

>>49966678
Concession accepted.

>>49966441

Not only does the swordsman land some hits, but most of the spear 'hits' are side-taps instead of straight thrusts. They win by the sparring ruses used, but a real spear used that way would have trouble getting through a sweater much less any kind of armor.

>>49966678
>Spearchucker argument: SPEARS USED MOST EVER
>Only ever used my Levymen and peasants.
>Became outdated with the invention of the Polearm
>While swords were still used.

>Swords are the most used weapon in the history of weapons.
>B-BUT MUH PEASANT SPEARS

>>49966765
So the carolingian heavy cavalry allready used a lance made to break on impact like Europeans used after 1300?

No they didn't, even at hastings the cavalry used lances that were not made to break on the first impact.

Lance and spear are kind of the same weapon up till 1300.

Bows conquered more continuous landmass than swords or spears

>>49966830
Actually, Yes, in a way.

Lances were made to be discarded because it's close to impossible to keep a lance after the first charge.

It's why Knights and Cavalry always hard a Sword.

Do tell me; How exactly do you think You're supposed to keep fighting with a Lance after the main charge?

>>49966867
Counterpoint: Arrows are miniature spears.

>>49966830
Look at our best source for the battle of Hasting, Bayeux tapestry. What do we see. We see Norman Knights, carrying swords as they charge the shield wall. Also, can't help but realise that these Carolingian shock cavalry you seem to think exist don't exist. No Stirrups in Francia till after the carolingian empire collapse.

>>49966877
Counter-Counterpoint

Speartips are just small Swords.

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>>49966808
>Spears
>Became outdated with the invention of the Polearm
Aren't spears a type of polearm?

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>>49966910
Let me know when there's a sword shaped like this.

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>>49966931
Celtic swords Genius.

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>>49966714
excuse me just going to fuck your shit real quick

>>49966949
>leaf-blade sword
That's shaped like a leaf, not a speartip.

>>49966927

Depends. Are swords a kind of knife?

>>49966931
Are you joking?

>>49966931
>nitpicking this hard

>pointy tip
>flat blade with sharp bits on the narrow side
>longer than it is wide

>b-but there isn't a sword with the exact same shape so they can't be the same thing

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>>49966963

Is this army v. army? or individual v. individual?

>>49966960
And the spear posted has the same tip shape as the sword does.
My Point.

>>49966870
You stab a fucker with it?

What do you want when killing somebody, a short piece of metal or a longer piece of metal?

You want range, all the time everytime. Except in small corridors like tunnels and houses

>>49966960
Your face is a speartip.

>>49966963
Sure, don't the Germans have large blades they called War Knives?

>>49966984
Pretty sure swords were invented after spears so it's the other way around though

>>49966970
I assumed this was a bait thread so yeah, pretty much.

>>49966973
Congratulations.

>>49966994
Thank you

>>49967007
>Let me know when there's a sword shaped like this.
I was responding to this. He asked, I delivered.

>>49966976

Exactly. When it comes right down to it, most early melee weapons are just different varieties of knife or club.

That definition of a knife applies to swords, swears, and even axes. That giant, two handed battleaxe your barbarian carries? Its a knife. Just a funny shaped one.

>>49966927
Nope.

Most polearms Evolved from Either the Poleaxe or the Polehammer. Which in turn evolved from the Dane Axe and the Warhammer respectively.

Spears were mostly unrelated.

>>49966993
>Stab fucker with lance while on horse
>Can't withdraw because I am riding a fucking horse full tilt
>Either need to discard the Riding Spear or stop my horse in it's charge
>Or I can drop the weapon and draw another less limited weapon.

>>49967007
Actually, leaf Bladed Swords probably came about before Leaf bladed Spears.

>>49967031
Hey, that's true. Sweet. So, new topic:

Which is better, knife or club?

>ITT Let's wank about weapons we've never used and will never use
I swear to God, you guys are worse than /k/ with this shit.

>>49966884
Shock cavalry was allready a thing since fucking long before Cannae

>>49967031
>Implying Axes are not just sharp clubs.

Knife fags delusional as always.

>>49967052
>coming into a thread just to whine you don't like it
Do you feel in charge?

>>49967060
Not lance charges genius.

>>49966712
Yes hoplites and Immortals clearly were amateurs let's not forget Swiss pikemen.

>>49967041
That's why both the poleaxe and the polehammer had a point on top?

>>49967086
Axes and Hammers had Points on top beforehand.

You know "a point" doesn't make something a spear.

>>49967085
Swiss Pikemen. Do you mean swiss Halberdiers, the people who did not use spears. Hoplites. The people with two spears for throwing, check out some cylixs, and see the throwing loops, and carried a sword.
The immortals. Again, same as hoplites.

>>49967068
And this gives you power over me?

>>49966295
a good swordsman would never engage a good spearman in a fair situation

>>49967041
>less limited weapon

Less range is quite the limitation

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>>49967141
>I need range when I am in the face of my enemy on a horse

A lance is a hinderence in anything but the first charge.

>>49967111
No he means swiss pikemen.

>>49967150
gun with a gunded sword every time, if you disagree you're a faggot.

>>49967041
That's retarded, polearms are poles with the armed part at the end of the shaft. That's a spear, a pike, a lance, a glaive, a guisarme, a poleaxe, a polehammer, etc.

>>49967111
>hoplites
>spears for throwing

as usual /tg/ knows fuck all about history

>>49967150
Gun with a Gunded Sword, obviously. It has two guns + 1 sword.

>>49967158
You are on a horse, a highly mobile fighting platform.

>>49967158
That's how it's like in video games you play?

>>49966295

Are you familiar with Roman battle tactics, famalam? Have a wee read at 'Art of War' by Niccolò Machiavelli.

>>49967170
>>49967181
Bullshit, the sword can close into melee range before the gun can draw his gun.

>>49967203
Typical swordfag argument ''MUH ROMANS''. If swords are so amazing why other armies didn't use them as primary weapons? Could it be that legionaires won not thanks to gladius but thanks to their fucking logistics and discipline?

>>49966480
>Why didn't Alexander the Great conquer North or West?
Because he was busy conquering the Persians and he died before he could launch other campaigns. If Alexander the Great lived until he was 50 or 60 I could easily imagine him launching invasions of Italy, the rest of North Africa, or Dacia. Might even have gone back to try and conquer India later in life.

>>49967111
>hoplites did not carry spears for thrusting in combat

Now you are just posting lies on the internet to piss people off, what is wrong with your brain? Mature hoplites did not use throwing spears, that is an early/transitional thing from pre hoplite times.

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>>49967173
And look at the small loops on the spears. Designed for throwing.

>>49967171
The Evolution of Polearms are from their respective weapons being added to a longer fighting stock.

Spears have no relation to a Poleaxe or a Polehammer at all other than "They sort of have a long shaft"

They don't even have the same fighting style.

>>49967230
Because Spears are easier to train and manufacture than Swords, and most elite infantry did use swords.

Why is it as soon as any elite infantry come about, they stop using spears and start using different weapons?

>>49966344
or maybe because samurais were shit tier fighters?

>>49967255
Most polearms aren't similar because its a general term for a weapon at the end of a pole, its not specifically poleaxes and polehammers.

>>49967254
>look at how shields have small loops
>designed for throwing

>>49967255
There are other polearms than a poleaxe (axe with a spearhead attached) or a polehammer (hammer with a spearhead attacked) like a glaive (spear with a cutty bit) or a bill (spear with a hooky bit)

>>49966667
>The holy spear of possibly the most well known king in all of history
>Ron

>>49967276
>different weapons

such as polearms

so swordfags still have no arguments

>>49967276
What quantifies "elite" in this case?

>>49967300
FUCK. Meant Spears. But point still stands. Hoplite spears could be thrown, and we know they carried swords. However, I confess it is a stretch. I mainly did it to piss people off with a weird but real theory

>>49967287
Were they? Compared to who?

>>49967318
>Polearms

Such as the Poleaxe.

Ergo, Axes are clearly superior to Spears AND Swords.

>>49967324
Literally every single elite fighting group in the world evolved beyond using a spear.

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>>49967276
Knights, Immortals and Spartans are not 'elite infantry' to you? What standard are you using?

This thread is stupid, knights AND common infantry carried both spears and swords/axes/maces when fighting on foot prior to the proliferation of plate armour.

>>49967333
To literally everyone else

>>49967339
Axe blade was used mainly for hooking you uneducated imbecile not for cleaving through armor like in your Dank Souls or Memerim. The main tool was the fucking spike and the hammer part.

Also, spears stopped being used once guns became useable without a stand. People then proceeded to use swords till the advent of steam power.

>>49967339
Poleaxe is just an axehead attacked to a spear

>>49967369
>literally

they sure as fuck weren't worse than vikings or random south american tribesmen

>>49967380
And then swords were replaced by handguns so clearly they were shit.

>>49967380
Stands have nothing to do with it, pikes went out because of guns becoming more effective and the bayonet being invented.

>until steam power

So all those situations where swords were used in the 1800's never happened?

>>49967373
Except that's not true you fucking retard.

If it was just used for hooking, why is it a Convex shape designed to Maximize it's cutting potential and not a hook?

I swear to god, are you and >>49967390
Are American, because this is some sheer American logic.

>>49967380
Like the napoleonic lancer, the napoleonic sergaent and the napoleonic boarding pike? All used spears or lances

>>49967287
What? Samurai were pretty fucking good archers, even before saying "m-muh Musashi"

>>49967437
>Although the lance had its greatest impact in the charge, lancers were vulnerable against other cavalry, as the lance proved a clumsy and ineffective weapon (compared to the sabre) at close quarters.[3] By the late 19th century, many cavalry regiments in the British and other European armies were composed of troopers with lances (as well as sabres or other secondary weapons) in the front rank and men with sabres in the second; the lances for the initial shock and sabres for the mêlée.

So literally Sabres>Lances

>>49967287
Kenjitsu is just as well thought out as European longsword fighting, the grappling the Samurai trained in was just as capable as what European knights used to fight each other. Your criticism is baseless.

The disadvantages they would have in weapons and armour against a European knight in full plate do not change the fact they were professional warriors who were raised to fight.

>>49967432
No, I'm not murrican, but seeing you can't tell how I am wrong you sure showed me by calling out a random nationality

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>>49967485
I'm calling it out because you are using Hindsight to try and fill in logic you simply didn't know or refused to accept.

American logic.

PoleAxes and Polehammers were not invented "By strapping an axehead to a spear"

They were invented because over the course of History, Axeheads got smaller and their handes got thinner to maximised their potencial.

Here is a Dane Axe, one of the claims to why Vikings fought so good ( Insert wrath of the viking autist poster ) that was actually quite popular among everyone because it was an extremely effective weapon. Note how fucking small the head is and how big the handle is, effectively it's a polearm.

Weapons are not sorted into families directly, they are only vaguely related to each other by form and function.

Despite what said, no, a Poleaxe's business end is not the point or the hammer bit. It IS the Axe head. Because the Discipline of fighting WITH a Poleaxe USES the Axe head as an axe. Just like my picture shows. However it also has a point to thrust and a hammer to crush because Utility.

But that's why it's called a PoleAXE not a SpearAxe. The Axe is the prominent part in it's use.

If a girl can be a swords(wo)man then it must be pretty easy and shitty.

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>>49967557
Vikings were such great warriors we all should imitate them.

>>49967464
Yes, sabres>lances in a certain context, like when a couple of thousand horsemen are pressed together on a small piece of terrain after a charge and nobody can manouver

Against cavalry it was a pretty good weapon. Lancers were feared by infantry as units that could totaly destroy a square because of their range.

>>49967557
Yes I'm sure people used the axe blade against PLATE ARMOR very often.

Don't forget medieval battles went like this
>CHAAARGE XDDD

and everyone fought in a hooligan clusterfuck but with weapons just like in LOTR

>>49967579
They were good enough fighters to be a pain in the ass for everyone.

Also they invented the Dane axe, an amazingly successful weapon that Richard the Lionheart used.

So they can't be that bad at fighting if we remember them today for fighting, despite losing alot of battles.

>>49967599
What are you trying to say here? That EVERYBODY had plate armor when poleaxes were used? Or that Smiths would fashion an Axe blade purely for hooking instead of... a Hook?

>>49967557
so they took the Daneaxe, and to make it an even better weapon they added a spearhead.

Got it.

>Weapons are not sorted into families directly, they are only vaguely related to each other by form and function.

If this is what you claim, how can you at the same time claim that the poleaxe is an evolution of the daneaxe and not the spear, while having influences of both.

>>49967623
>pain in the ass for everyone

because they kept sacking undefended villages you idiot there were no epic battles involved in their raids

modern niggers are a pain in the ass for everyone so I guess they are great warriors as well

>>49967623
>They were good enough fighters to be a pain in the ass for everyone.

Just change fighters to sailors and you are on the right path.

>>49967674
>WE

>>49967643
Yep, American.

Right, let me explain this to you as easy as it comes.

The PollAxe is used as an axe. it is in the same family as the dane axe because it's fighting style and design are very similar, long handled axe.

Yes, they did improve it by rebalancing the weapon, adding a pointed tip and a hammer.

However, 90% of a weapons identity and design comes from it's combat style and usage.

You don't sit in a tight formation poking with a Pollaxe.

You strike with it like an Axe, and thrust with it like a shortspear.

>>49966428
I should've known you were retarded.

>>49967693
Well; They were pirates really, but good enough to raid almost everywhere and enough to go down in History as such.

I mean What do people mean by "Great fighters" half the time?

Roman legionaires were beaten constantly in the history of the Roman Empire when they couldn't have superior logistics. Does that make Romans shit compared to Germans and Gauls?

I doubt that. It's like saying Samurai were shit fighters because they had poor quality equipment, It's just people finding reasons to bash one culture over another.

>>49967674
They did defeat armies in open battle you know, the Battle of Maldon for example.

Really, any Knight, Samurai or whatever worth his salt usually had some sort of Spear/Polearm AND a sword-like blade. They usually had an additional smaller blade just in case.

This argument is silly. They are both tools of a good warrior But please continue the argument for giggles

>>49967714
Nah, Dutch

>You don't sit in a tight formation poking with a Pollaxe.
You do though, warfare after the 1300th century became a lot more focused on infantry formations and fighting inside these formations. You use it when standing next to all your buddies and fighting those guys on the other side of the gap.

>The PollAxe is used as an axe. it is in the same family as the dane axe because it's fighting style and design are very similar, long handled axe.
The pollaxe is used as a poleaxe, with fighting inspiration coming from both axe, spear and hammer. Trying to penetrate plate armour is a lot more effective with the point of the poleaxe than with the axe part. Look at Fiori dei Libri and his flower of battle. When he writes about using a pollaxe, he primarly talks about it in the context of grapples and throws. Not brute forcing somebody with the axe head but using it smartly to throw you enemy on the ground.

Have a look for yourself.

>>49967810
The simple fact is Large pitched battles were not the main reason to alot of the Viking incursions.

They were not really a united people compared to the Franks or Even the Anglo-Saxons at the time.

They had no real eye for conquest And when they did it was usually a few Lords or a King with that intent.

"Vikings" and "Norse" were always a cultural group and not a united power faction save behind people like King Cnut.

>>49967810
Yeah they had few victories but so did everyone else. The point still stands: they usually lost, they were dog shit meme warriors for redditors and 14yo metal fans.

>>49967798
>Well; They were pirates really, but good enough to raid almost everywhere and enough to go down in History as such.
Yeah, good enough sailors. People were scared of them because they could strike anywhere. But when they met a military force they got wrecked most of the time.

>I mean What do people mean by "Great fighters" half the time?
I don't use the term great fighters because it's dumb. You have succesfull soldiers but they will always be beaten.

>Roman legionaires were beaten constantly in the history of the Roman Empire when they couldn't have superior logistics. Does that make Romans shit compared to Germans and Gauls?
No, it made them shit on that occasion. The Romans beat the Germans and Gauls because they could actually bring another army in the field because of their logistics after a defeat. For the romans, a defeat was merely a setback, they could always bring in new recruits.

>>49966413
Proof that /f/ still memes

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>>49967871
>You use it in formation fighting
>But this Fencer says you use it for grappling and throwing

>Dutch person actively trying to act like an American things

Well, here is where we come into a problem, because Fiori Dei Libri doesn't actually say a difference between a Poleaxe and a polehammer. Because there is such a Wide variance in Poleaxe and Polehammer designs and the names are used so flippantly it defies reason.

Hell, this is a Pollaxe. Go ahead and tell me the axehead on here is used only for Grappling and Throws.

Fuck, it's debatable if Poleaxe and Pollaxe are even the same sort of Polearm.

>>49966295

That's why your army is dying of dysentry, no matter how much more deadly swordsmen are when they're using weapons covered in spearman shit that infects any wounds they make.

>>49967969
>>You use it in formation fighting
>>But this Fencer says you use it for grappling and throwing
Yes, that's outside of formation fighting, the weapon has multiple uses. Thats what makes a good weapon. You don't go about grappling fuckers in a formation fight because that gets you killed.

>>Dutch person actively trying to act like an American things
nice sentence
>Well, here is where we come into a problem, because Fiori Dei Libri doesn't actually say a difference between a Poleaxe and a polehammer. Because there is such a Wide variance in Poleaxe and Polehammer designs and the names are used so flippantly it defies reason.
Why should there be a clearly demarcated difference?

>Hell, this is a Pollaxe. Go ahead and tell me the axehead on here is used only for Grappling and Throws.
Nice stylised poleaxe, that surely was painted to be as realisticly as possible

>Fuck, it's debatable if Poleaxe and Pollaxe are even the same sort of Polearm.
They are in some cases and they are not in others. It's just a question of semantics and hardly informative when looking at individual weapons.

>>49968057
Because you're using Fiori Dei Libri's Book about fighting in a duel about how to use a Poleaxe in formation fighting.

You argued you can't use a poleaxe like an axe because you're in a formation but suddenly leg sweeps and quarterstaff tactics are viable.

Fiori also brags he defeated countless "fake" masters and he mastered all martial arts both italian and German.

Sure, the Heraldry posted is stylised, but we have weapons with larger axe heads and we have "Pollaxes" with no Axe heads at all.

So maybe we should stop trying to assume hindsight fills all gaps and that some Italian sops writings do not outweight practical experience and the fact that Axes are generally used like axes and while that does include grappling, Does also magically involve using the blade of the axehead if, indeed, the Pollaxe has one.

>>49967623
To be fair, they're Viking RAIDERS. RAIDERS don't fight other armies, you kill the villagers, steal their stuff, grab the womenfolk, and then row away in your longship BEFORE the enemy can respond

>>49967150
I choose the shotgun that shoots a sword, which then explodes into miniature swords, which explode on impact.

>>49968235
And what's so impressive and fierce about it? That's literally what fucking gangsters do.

>>49968390
Because it's what everyone else did in their spare time too, but the Vikings were so nible and agile that it was a pain in the ass to pin them down.

strike down the Great heathen Norse army? Oh look, Several years later, Saxony is STILL getting raiding by Vikings.

The thing I don't think you understand is Vikings were raiders AND Merchants all in one package.

Imagine if you will, the Life of a Viking. You can go anywhere your Boat commands, You raid a village if your supplies run low and you sell the gains of your spoils. Perhaps a Merchant hires you to ship his wares from Persia to France. Perhaps he hires you to pillage his rivals along the way.

Vikings were basically adventurers. There is a Romanticism in it like there is with Swashbuckling Pirates.

>>49967467
But we all know even a rookie samurai can bisect a European knight wearing full plate in a single swing.

>>49968149
>Because you're using Fiori Dei Libri's Book about fighting in a duel about how to use a Poleaxe in formation fighting.
No, if you look at my post you see that there is a clear demarcation when I stop talking about formation fighting and start talking about fiori

>You argued you can't use a poleaxe like an axe because you're in a formation but suddenly leg sweeps and quarterstaff tactics are viable.
I never said that you CAN'T use a poleaxe as an axe. YOu are the one claiming that a poleaxe is most of the time used as an axe I am simply stating that that is not true

>Fiori also brags he defeated countless "fake" masters and he mastered all martial arts both italian and German.
Fiori's credentials are a whole different debate, but he knows what he is talking about, even if he is not the very best(tm)

>Sure, the Heraldry posted is stylised, but we have weapons with larger axe heads and we have "Pollaxes" with no Axe heads at all
Then those are not pollaxes but something else.

>So maybe we should stop trying to assume hindsight fills all gaps and that some Italian sops writings do not outweight practical experience and the fact that Axes are generally used like axes and while that does include grappling, Does also magically involve using the blade of the axehead if, indeed, the Pollaxe has one.
What practical experience? Poleaxes have multiple means of attack, you are not going to limit yourself to just the axehead because that is where the weapon evolved from.

Poleaxes were designed as a tincan opener, something to directly attack somebody in platearmour with. This meant that having an axehead was beneficcial. also having a spearhead (two in some cases) and a hammer.

>>49968451
And gangsters kidnap and rob people as well as deal drugs and guns.

I guess they are also adventurous warrior-merchants.

>>49968390
It's not, they were just tremendous dicks in that they could raid wherever they wanted, when they wanted, including winter when everyone else bedded down, and then run off with your shit before you can respond effectively. The problem is that when they get caught they tend to litter the countryside with their corpses

>>49968451
Does not make them great warriors, just dick-ass traders.

>>49968501
Vikings didn't sell Illegal goods, they sold goods everyone did.

They also explored the world.

Something I am pretty sure Gangsters don't do, but even then people have romanticized gangsters.

I have a feeling you're just autistic and you think people don't yearn for Exploration and the feel of lawless freedom Vikings do encompass.

Alright, this is how it be.

You're up against a motherfucker sword 'n boarding like it's knightly, he's pretenden he tight.
FUCKING WRONG.
Hook that dumbass shield and put him off balance, its time to slice a bitch. Oh wait his shield wasn't properly strapped onto his arm and he was just holding it with his hand? Enjoy your broken wrist and lack of shield motherfucker.

You want a weapon for mounted combat? This is what you need. A lance? The fuck is that good for? A hook halberd with bud fulcrum won't get stuck in an enemy and can slice to boot.

BUT NO there's this other shitheel with a horse and you've lost your mount, now he's charging you, but your righteous-ass Halberd has a spear tip because that's how it do. Brace it into the ground and if he's stupid enough to continue it's shishkebob knight night. But, huh, it's a smart ass that wants to swerve at the last second.

FUCKING BITCH YOUR HALBERD HAS AN AXE.
It doesn't matter if he tries to take you from the side because you've already got him fucked. Aim for him? Don't need to, aim for the mount, it's just as good. He puts a shield up? Either hook-grapple him until he eats shit or hit his shield.

Wait, did you read the right? Just hit his shield?
MOTHERFUCKER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND.
IT'S A BITCHING-ASS HALBERD.
You don't need a clean hit to set a bitch off kilter.

But, oh no, you're in a cave. A small alley. A tight crevice. A sheer cliff.
You're at a disadvantage, right?
FUCKING WRONG.
Thrust your spear-axe tool up-to-down and down-to-up right in the faces of any dumbass that thinks a polearm has a disadvantage is tight quarters. This is the shit that city guards dream about while banging their ugly as sin fishwives.

Flying enemy? Same shit different day.
Armored enemy? Same shit different day.
Dexterous acrobatic ninja? Same shit different day.
Caster behind 1000 skeletons? Same shit, different day.

Are you a bitch?
If not; then Halberd.

itt manchildren argue about things they have no conception of beyond deeply inaccurate, flawed and anachronistic video games and lazily perused wikipedia articles

>>49968585
What does make a Good Warrior?

Is it personal Arms? The Logistics of the many? Numbers?

Because a life of Seafaring and Skirmishes would make you pretty good at seafaring and skirmishes.

>>49968604
>I have an oppinion too guys!! :^)

>>49968586
Yeah sure. Except vikings are always shilled as great warriors which they weren't as killing unarmed people is hardly an achievement but as soon as someone points out they were garbage then sudden;y ''muh trade and exploration''.

>>49966295
Stay salty

>>49968671
No one has denied that though, in fact we've admitted they suck at real battles and even joke about them being more a pain than a real serious threat.

>>49968671
>killing unarmed people is hardly an achievement

How many have you killed, you little nithing?

Joking aside, viking bands were usually lightly armed and lightly armored, and Saxon peasants were usually armed (they all had fyrdmen in their shires who were expected to serve their local lords)

Small band of armed warriors (vikings) vs small band of armed warriors + civilian support and knowledge of the terrain is more than just some kind of cowardly sneak attack, like /his/posters want you to think

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>>49966714
>Go get yourself a shield, and a good, broad bladed sword, and kill a barbarian or two for the honor of Rome.
I would but Rome doesn't exist anymore.
ROME. DOESN'T. EXIST. ANYMORE.
If anyone needed proof that there's no justice left in this world, it's right here. There is no Rome. There's not even a Greek pseudo-Rome. Hell, at this point I could even go for a French wannabe-Rome with muskets. But none of that exists!

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>>49968749
>yfw romans larped as trojans

>>49968738
Shires are pretty big though and vikings definitly had the initiative. A quick raid on a shorevillage can only be stopped when there is an active garrison there which of course can only be the case in a couple of cases.

>>49968749
I went to Rome last year anon

>>49968772
Agreed, I'm not saying they weren't marauding opportunists that came out of nowhere; I'm contesting the image of Saxon peasants as shit covered plebs from Monty Python, Saxon peasants were armed, even the ones not in the Fyrd.

I like spears more because I think they look cooler and are underappreciated in most mediums.

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The Best thing about spearmen is that you can have lots of them.
They're for using in an army
I'd say the Pike Block and shot was the final evolution of the spear in modern combat.

Longest possible stick for poking from the furthest distance away.
Armour & helmet to reduce poking and having to carry a shield.
NCO's would carry a shorter polearm to get people that came inside the reach of the pikes
Pikemen would carry a shortsword or knife to stab if some idiot breaks formation and runs with his zweihander into your block.

Your purpose is not soley to kill the enemy but to be a moving wall to protect your musketeers and artillery from cavalry and other pike while they reload and do the killing.

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Counts as Glaive" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Halberds deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Halberd in Germany for 10,000 Euros (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my Halberd.

European smiths spend years working on a single Halberd, hardening the steel and honing the edge to produce the finest weapon known to mankind

Halberds are thrice as sharp as any sword and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a sword can cut through, a Halberd can cut through better and with the advantage of reach. I'm pretty sure a Halberd could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe quickly abandoned melee combat? That's right, they feared the apocalyptic horror they unleashed when they created the Halberd. Even in World War II when nuclear weapons were on the table, the world was too afraid to put Halberds back on the field of battle.

So what am I saying? Halberds are simply the best weapon that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Halberds:

>(One-Handed Martial Weapon)
>2d12 Damage. Versatile (2d20).
>Slashing, Bludgeoning, and Piercing damage.
>Reach, Finesse.

Now that seems a lot more representative of the combat dominance Halberds had in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Halberds need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

The flail is the thinking man's weapon.

>>49968950
More like the farming-man's weapon :^)

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Fauchardsman > Guisarmesman every time.

>all these meleefags
Enjoy being skewered by a hail of arrows while I aim at leisure from my comfy turret.

>>49969074
Archers are meant to stand behind infantry and fire over them.
Its an army not an adventuring party.

>23 (You)s in this thread
/comfy/ as fuck to be tbqh

>>49968788
Rome isn't the buildings, son. Rome isn't the city.
Rome was the people who are no more, who were replaced by Lombard mutts.

>>49969311
Rome is a pretty name that people believe in. Whoever wanted it, took it, and there was nothing the Latins you're talking about could do about it.

>>49966295
>A good spearman will always shit on a good swordsman.

Get your German scat fetish magical realm shit outta here, OP.

>>49966295
Maybe and depends.
But a good shieldman will almost always shit on both.

>>49968913
fuck that renactment, jesus, someone is gonna lose an eye there

>>49970313
Going by the outfits and style it's probably the ECW Society not a Sealed Knot group, so I'd give them benefit of the doubt to knowing what they're doing.

>>49966808
>Swords are the most used weapon in the history of weapons.
I'd actually be willing to bet that throughout history there have been more people who fought with guns than those who fought with swords

>>49966705
A Halberd is bad, but something like a Billhook or Guisarme is downright obscene.

You might as well be shouting "I'm an uncultured peasant that enjoys dragging down noble knights."

>swords
Generally used as cutting weapons, primary source of damage: bleeding wounds, severed arteries, blunt trauma(whacking someone's head with the blade can cause a concussion).
Requires significant amounts of training to be effective.
>spears
Generally a stabbing weapon with long reach. Primary way to cause damage involves puncturing interior organs (lungs or intestines in particular). Requires minimal training (pointy end goes to the other guy), far cheaper to make, less metal required. Very cumbersome to use in close quarters. Only the tip is major threat.

When people couldn't afford metal armor, most soldiers just wore a metal helmet, gauntlets and a gambeson. Well-maintained swords could cut through them.

Once steel armor became a thing, swords became effectively useless, thus came the estoc, and then rapiers.

And then guns.

Also important thing: The only way to kill someone quickly is to chop their head off, which is not an easy thing. If you stab someone, he can still stand if it didn't hit a vital organ such as the heart.

Blunt trauma however, is very effective, since your opponent becomes incapacitated, and he's at your mercy laying on the ground.

Getting someone off their feet is also extremely dangerous, it is almost impossible to get up again in heavy armor.

>>49970984
>swods
>generally used as cutting weapons

maybe in your anime

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>>49970984
You really had me going there for a second

>>49966295
A good spearman has an advantage on a good swordsman that helps a ton but won't always guarantee he wins, especially when other factors enter the mix.

>>49969311
This is true, there're no romans in Rome, I should know, I'm a roman.

>>49966295
sword & shield versus spear without shield? your statement is flat out wrong.

I would take this thread more seriously if I didn't know that /tg/ only likes spears to be contrary, just like so many other things they claim to enjoy.

>>49967771
he's just pretending, ofc.

>>49971229
...but I honestly always preferred polearms to other weapons.

>>49971229
Everyone who knows anything at all about history likes spears and polearms. Not necessarily more than swords but still.

>>49969247
22 due to samefagging, I'm sure.

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>>49968749
>the Byzantine Empire collapsed
>the last remaining successor states of it were swallowed soon after
>the heritage of Rome is only an empty title born by the Italians, the old Ottomans, and the Russians, with nothing truly connecting them to the traditions of Rome

>>49970984
>it is almost impossible to get up again in heavy armor.
bwahahahaha

>>49966295
>A competent spearmen will always shit on a competent swordsman

ftfy

>>49966344
>Nah there is a reason why spears were so widely used

Cheap
Easy to train with
Widely applicable

Why, were you thinking of some autist reason that was obviously false like, "MUH REACH!"?

>>49966441
>swordfag

Now I've heard everything. You're like those raging faggot autists on the youtube videos who go "Y-Y-YOUR JUST A TIGER-FAG! A CROCODILE COULD NEVER WIN!"

There's a reason that the Roman legions raped the shit out of the known world and were all armed with short-swords, and it wasn't because some faggot poked everyone with a spear.

>49971345
Kek, thanks for the (You) my friend.

>>49971375
>tripfag is an idiot

what a surprise

>>49971436
>can't offer a counter argument because he was proven objectively wrong so he relies on dated memes

What a surprise.

>>49971436
>replying to tripniggers
Don't.

>>49971441
How is reach NOT an advantage you imbecile?

>>49971355
America, or at least the founders, claimed it was the new Rome for a long time. It's why the White House looks the way it does

>>49971613
When you have tactics that render that advantage to be completely inert. Reach is only an advantage in certain circumstances, and is more of an operation of the weapon than a distinct advantage.

This is very basic, you "imbecile".

>>49971445
Never said it wasn't an advantage you retarded dipshit.

I said why it was actually widely used compared to why an idiot who doesn't know anything would think it's used.

>>49966295
1 opportunity for a counterattack roll.
the attacker might just run into the attack and hit automatically , but gets hit for increased TP damage (if the armor does not already absorb everything) and do a comparative roll to see if he also gets a crit.

if the attacker avoids counterattack or just takes it, the defender has a second opportunity to abort his counterattack instead and try to dodge or parry.

this means: longer reach is nice, but by no means an "i win" button

>>49971629
Haven't everyone everywhere claimed to be the heirs of rome?

>>49972025
A ton of people in the Renaissance, it's how archeology came to life. Lords started digging out of the ground roman and greek stuff to legitimate their rule.

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>mfw spearfags and swordfags are arguing over which hunk of sharp metal (glorified rock weapon) is better

>mfw archers will always shit on any army without proper defenses

>mfw damn it feels good to be a bowmen

>>49971629
Equally as empty a claim. At best they could have claimed to be the heirs to the ideals of the Roman Republic.

>>49972216
Considering the recently roman coins were found in japan it would be hilarious if the japs joined the "we wuz romans" train.

>>49966295
The most powerful weapon is your body

Oh my god why are these arguments even considered /tg/.

I love rolling up unarmed fighter/monk characters and shitting on autists who believe in "m-muh realism" with my flying kung fu fists of fury.

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>>49972321
Archerfags gonna archer

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>>49972407
>fists
tryhard

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What's wrong with a handgun?

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Swords are cooler than spears, thus swords are better than spears.

Sorry OP, I don't make the rules.

>>49972707
I would imagine anal being painful.

>>49966494
So your argument is good spearman armed with sword beats good swordsman?
or
Spearman taking shallow grip on spear is highly effective use of spear.

Learn to use a polearm before telling people how someone can use a polearm because you clearly know nothing at the moment.

>>49966422
>I've never tried cutting down a tree with an axe let alone with a sword whose weight distribution is wrong for the task let alone a piece of wood that moves when it gets hit let alone when that piece of wood is covered with metal the sword can't even cut through

The fuck do you all take your unsourced claims about historical weapons so seriously for? Were your mothers melee weapons and now you need to defend their honour?

>>49972764
Swords are gay, though. Sorry anon, I don't make the rules.

>>49973088
Yeah my mother was a real old battleax

>>49972321
The Mongols had 4/6 of their troops as dedicated lancers though.

>>49966295
Objective truth, NO valid argument, thread has concluded.

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>>49972861
For you

>>49967798
>They were pirates really,
Go away, learn some history, then come back and try again only get it right.

>>49972707
What show?

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>>49973311
Keijo.
I unironically watch it for the plot and it's unironically good. The PLOT is just a bonus.

>>49966295
Gross.

>>49972429
Why don't you try invading Parthia again? Maybe this time standing still and letting yourselves get shot at in the desert heat will work out for you.

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>>49966958
Not so fast there son

>>49973227
They were absolutely pirates. Don't confuse "Norse" with "Viking", not all Norse soldiers were Vikings. Vikings were specifically Norse who were out pirating.
>>49973458
Brutal.

>>49968484
I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS 'MASTERWORK BASTARD SWORD' BULSLHIT

>>49972764
>swords were used as a status symbol
>therefore they are cooler
>therefore they are better

So, Apple > PC > Linux?

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>>49973511
>swords
>muskets
You're cute.

>>49973600
They are once those muskets have fired and take a day and a half to reload.

>>49973614
Which is why a few years down the road they started sticking big fuck-off knives on the end.

Longer reach than a spear when loaded, and still longer reach than a sword when empty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixm6sXe1TYE
A video that kinda shows what the argument is about. Worth a watch.
I honestly don't understand why people argue so much why certain weapons are better then the others. It's like one would argue that a hammer is better then pincers.
A weapon is a tool, that was made for a certain job. And, apparently, since a whole lot of people used those weapons for such a long time, they've apparently worked well.

>>49973689
because people dont see weapons as tools, they see them as SSB characters on different power tiers

>>49966295
That would be an uncouth and ungentlmanly thing to do. We have privies and should treat our prisoners with decency.

>>49973689
memes and easy bait

>>49973733
>>49973753
I mean, yeah, I realize you can easily bait people in dumb arguments like that (similar to knight vs samurai, longsword vs katana, bow vs crossbow...).
But I honestly thought that /tg/ was too classy for that?

>>49973826
>classy
>4chan

10,000 nigga watts

>>49973826
we are, its the same grognards everytime, smart people avoid this thread leaving only the dregs, oh god im the dregs

>>49973826
>he thinks /tg/ is a monolith
Get a load of this guy!

>>49973689
>lindybeige
>re-enactment

>>49973826
/tg/ has been getting upset about this shit since its creation, or so I'm told, I only came here around '09.

>>49973689
I think the big thing is that, in this case, up until fairly recently spears were not a popular weapon at all - they were used by grunts, skipped over in RPGs for meh rules, not really seen as heroic or good.

And now, you've got people who support spears now (or maybe all along) basically singing the spear's praises, and suddenly everything's been flipped the other way. So that also means it's annoying to people who didn't care or just prefer swords or axes or whatever to spears.

>>49974074
Do you think GoT helped with that? Y'know, with the whole Oberyn thing?

>>49974130
>GoT
Fuckin normies reeeeeeeee etc.

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>>49973576
Swords are much more aesthetically pleasing, both in how they look and how they are used. There's a reason that the overwhelming majority of fictive protagonists use swords instead of polearms, and why the most popular weapon relics are swords like Excalibur or Durendal or Masamune.

C'mon, you'd have to be mad to deny that swords are cooler than spears with only a very small number of exceptions.

>>49970984
>sword generally used as cutting weapons
>sword useless against armor
>it is almost impossible to get up again in heavy armor

Check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q

>the only way to kill someone quickly is to chop their head off
I don't even know where to start

>>49974130
Actually, I don't know. I never really watched the show, and never got up the interest to get through the second book.

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>>49966295
Fuck you buddy

>>49971613
When you swat the spear tip out of your way and move in past it, you have to choke up on the spear or back up really fucking fast before the swordsman get close enough to gut you. Good luck with that.

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>>49966470
Argument which rolls on for the sake of argument is the basic trait of nerds, academics, faithful and general "obsessed-with-X" peoples.

I think it's even fun in the real world, but here it is grating.

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>>49966714
You pleb.

Everyone worthy of their gens knows the true power of the SPQR resided in the Ballerinas.

>>49973458

The Romans did invade Parthia again. They pretty consistently held the upper hand over the Parthians and took their capital five times over the course of several centuries.

They just never kept it because it wasn't worth it.

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>>49966295
> A spearman will always have a weapon based advantage over a swordsman.
FTFY

>>49966295
Is it because a shit-smeared spear has longer range than a shit-smeared sword, thus making the act of smearing one's shit upon another easier with a spear?

>>49966646
>that appendix carry

>>49978367
Not as much that it wasn't worth it, but it was more valuable as a buffer state and a place for Roman generals to earn some fame abroad. Want to get some political support at home? Win a few campaigns in Parthia. It's what Ceaser did, and aside from the whole assassination thing, things went well for him.

>>49966295
>all other things equal
Always? No. Usually? Yes.

>>49978753
Parthia a too far and a pain to get too, not to mention the expenses generals needed to cover for such a venture. Why go there for fame when there's a perfectly good German tribe encroaching from the borders?

>>49968601
you're mistaking a billhook for a halbierd.

>>49979868
Why go to a nothing frontier when you could have an easy campaign against an empire that was steadily weakening between your own and the growing power of a new Persian state?

>>49979914
Cause the people and senate of Rome where try-hard moralist, they'd take a defensive stance over an offensive one on most occasions as they do not like being seen as the aggressors. It was always "they threaten our glorious and peaceful republic! they must be punished!"

Being a defender of Rome has more political pull and less backlash from conservative and watchful senators that would call out "warmongering" and would have generals face legal reprimands for it.

There is also the fact the Parthia can put up a fight. Even when they were weakened they're were on equal footings with the Roman military. So for most generals Invading Parthia was a big maybe and after Crassus that maybe turned into a no.

>>49974074
The backlash is starting to get annoying. Both swords and pole arms had there purpose and many soldiers carried both. But the spear memeers treat the sword as an uber useless piece of junk that is a worse weapon than a gauntlet that should be melted down to make either more pole arms to arm more people or slightly more armor if your short on people.

>>49966422
That's widely accepted as bullshit.

>>49966870
1. Not lose it like some pissant and take it out of the pedestrianfag you stuck it into as you ride past
2. Get a new one and charge again (t. The Hussars)

>>49980567
You could probably make two spear tips out of a sword, melt all swords now.

>>49977887
If countering a spear is so easy why no one did it?

>>49966470
Nobody's said /tg/ can't be baited, it's just that several years ago we were more capable of turning many troll threads into creative discussions.

>>49967150
>>49967170
>>49967181
A sword with a sworded gun ofc, beacuse 21 step rule.
Farther than 21 steps I'd take rifle with a rifled sword, but this is beside the point

>>49982097
>two

more

>>49966295
i'll take the swordsman inside a phonebooth

>>49982297
The phone booth has to be bigger on the inside than the outside, however.

>>49967599
>Don't forget medieval battles went like this
>>CHAAARGE XDDD

Stop watching movies and do some fucking research. Start with 'shield wall' and go from there.

>>49966295
R E A D

U P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdx8kNo_ouA

A sword is fine too.

>>49983198
Meme wall. The most basic fucking ''formation'' possible the only downgrade would be a mob rush only shit eating levies used that garbage.

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>>49966958
>saves a thumbnail

You must be an auxillary

>>49979868
Germans were shit and romans knew it, there's little glory to be earned compared to what you can find in the east. See how Julian tells us he decided to attack the sasanian persians (the equivalent of parthians at the time), and not germans, because he wanted the better enemy.

Also imitatio alexandri was hugue in the Mediterranean for centuries. Alexander didn't attack shitty tribes in the north, but the rich and powerful east. You can't imitate him by attacking some forest savages.

>>49980045
>they'd take a defensive stance over an offensive one on most occasions as they do not like being seen as the aggressors

The two iranian states, both arsacid and sasanian, were portrayed as constant possible aggressors and a threat to the empire (or at least the eastern part, but that was the important one). And at some points it wasn't even false assumption, the iranian monarchs also attacked the Romans for prestige. A campaign in the east wasn't less defensive than a campaign against the germans.

>So for most generals Invading Parthia was a big maybe and after Crassus that maybe turned into a no.

Here you're showing your lack of knowledge since most relevant conflicts between romans and parthians happened after Crassus, not before him.

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A good marksman will always shit on a good melee fighter.

>>49986007
>glory
>Romans
kekimus maximus.png

>>49966428
>barbarians
>untrained
Do people just think the barbarian peoples sat around in forest huts for years and years at a time while Rome ignored their existence, and then suddenly they had a mental revolution and started forging weapons enough for an army and decided to bullrush Rome every so often without any of them knowing how to fight?
The only reason we call them barbarians is because any records we have are from Romans, who were quite haughty about their position in the world above everyone else.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying barbarians dindu nuffin, or were the real masterrace that history hides the truth about, but the >untrained barbarians meme needs to die. They were their own fully functioning societies, and most certainly were trained, and even likely organized to a rudimentary degree. They were no legionarres, that's for sure, but they had many reasons as to why they remained a threat to Rome for all its history.

>>49990326
>They were no legionarres
Thank you for admitting they were untrained. I get the impression you're butthurt about something, so if it helps I didn't say they sucked at fighting. Just that they didn't have training.

>>49990614
are you seriously suggesting that there is no such thing as training other than as legionnaires?

>>49990709
I'm saying that outside of an organized military system, combat training is nonexistent, yes. That's basically half of the entire point of a military. Train and mobilize troops. No military, no wide-scale training. Wide-scale training, probably an actual military.

No, your dojos and shit aren't combat training, martial arts are for self-defense and try to teach philosophical ways to live and/or how to avoid fights.

>>49966370
This. Unless the spear man can retreat to get more thrusts in, he pretty much gets one chance before the swordsman closes. And if you're good with a sword, it's not that hard to turn a spear.

>>49974186
While they're not as well know as Excalibur, off the top of my head, there is Gungnir, Odin's spear; Lance of Longinus, the spear that pierced Jesus; Green Dragon, General Guan Yu's spear; and Ron, King Arthur's spear. I'm sure there is more.

>>49966295
>ah yes you know your judo well
i posted this argument before

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>mfw lu bu is coming at me and all i got is a sword

>>49991860
ok

Romans developed their whole shit around beating spear because spear units are overpowered and the whole ancient world used them. How do you beat spear + shield? BIG FUCKING SHIELD and sword + trained disciplined soldiers.

>>49966295
Spearmen often carried a sidearm to fight off against swordsmen that closed the gap.
This sidearm was usually a sword if the spearmen had access to it.

>>49966295
A skilled Roy can beat any Fox.

>>49966295
No.
Though a shit spearman will beat a shit swordsman

>>49990913
>Missing Gae Bulg, Gae Buidhe and Gae Dearg

>>49990913

>Lance of Longinus, the spear that pierced Jesus

lol stabbing unarmed peasants wow so impressed at its power

>>49993960
Fatefag pls go.

>>49994482
>Fate
I can't help it if some hentai anime picked up concepts from perfectly fine legends
eat shit

>>49966588
Except that the value of having a sword was more a question of opulence. Swords were only affordable by a few, a sing of power and oppulence.

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>>49972429

>That fucking feeling when someone brings up the Testudo the second archers enter the debate.
>Out of context, just "hurr durr muh shieldss"

Yeah and the spartan shield wall was just sooo super duper impenetrable wasn't it? Fucking children

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>>49966295

These fucking threads never change.

Year in, year out, the same shit get's dragged up again, and again, and again.

>Samurai swords vs european
>Spear vs halberd
>Bow vs handgun
>Long bow vs crossbow
>Plate armour vs anything
>Shield wall vs archers
>Mounted Knights vs anything
>Muh wooden plank with a nail in it
>Vikings vs anything
>Pythians
>Muh Arche Selucia
>Weaboo
>Muh Deus Vult
>The jews

AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

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>>49966295

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>>49968749

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Checkmate Atheists

>>49966344
>Nah there is a reason why spears were so widely used

The reason is called price and ease of use as well as providing morally comfort (range so they are able to stay somewhat away from the enemy) for untrained fighters.

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>>49966295

you exaggerate