/btg/ - Battletech General

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haha time for battle tech

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>>49961731

Cont. from last thread
>What sort of power range are lasers in battletech, gigawatts? 100s of gigwatts? Terawatts?

My personal headcanon is that battlemech reactors sit in the low gigawatt range, which is comparable to a modern nuclear fission reactor. My theory is that the rating is represents the power output in Gigawatts, 100-400 being 1.00-4.00 GW.

It makes sense for an advanced nuclear fusion reactor to generate 4 times as much power of a modern fission reactor while being 1/10th the size.

Lasers and other energy weapons in battletech are powered by super-capacitors that store power generated from the reactor over time, and then release it in an extremely high energy burst, sort of how a 240v wallsocket could power a 2000000v capacitor bank, so a cERLL could possibly be outputting 1000 times more energy per seconds then the reactor while it fires

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Some mini's to go along with OP's pic.

>>49961907
Small Lasers are somewhere between "slags an M1 Abrams in one shot" (according to WoG from the OF) and "WW2 tank guns are more dangerous" (from 1945, the best TRO)

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UPGRADED FOR MAXIMUM ENFORCEMENT.

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>>49962053
Nice.
I have an Enforcer on my desk at work. Best mech.

>>49961716
If information is ammunition, how much damage does it explode for per ton?

>>49962045
>"slags an M1 Abrams in one shot"

Depends on the critical rolls. You have seen the Urbanmech comic, right?

>"WW2 tank guns are more dangerous"

Well, they are. They can reach out to 1500+ meters, and Battletech guns can't. Therefore, the WW2 guns are more dangerous. QED.

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>>49962105
400 damage per ton. Adam Steiner's Axman shoots 30 INFORMATION PELLETS at the Cockfalcons.

>>49962116
>Well, they are. They can reach out to 1500+ meters, and Battletech guns can't. Therefore, the WW2 guns are more dangerous. QED.

>I'll take game simplification and pic related for c500 Alex

>>49962163
>>I'll take game simplification and pic related for c500 Alex


R E T C O N
E
T
C
O
N

A retcon is not <real> Battletech. That's an ass-cover to hush up the fact that CGL fucked up the ranges for no good reason.

>>49961907
Let's not forget the naval lazors and PewPewChoos.

The Invader JumpShip's anti-asteroid defense consists of two bog standard PPCs. I imagine naval grade weaponry can vaporize some big space rocks.

Not too big, though. BattleTech is a low-tech, "restrained" setting after all.

>>49962211
It's a necessary part of making giant robots a viable weapons platform.
Gundam does the same thing with Minovsky particles.

>>49962355
He's shitposting, do not respond

>>49962369

Whatever is the difference between somebody shitposting and somebody who is convinced they're correct but actually aren't? How is that distinguishable if the shitpost isn't blatantly obvious (and I mean extremely shitposty)?

>>49962461
>How is that distinguishable if the shitpost isn't blatantly obvious
Well, in this case, he refers to something created by FASA as being CGL's fault, which is a very common troll/shitposter move

Daily reminder that pedos aren't cool

About the range crap, I can't be the only one that plays with Extreme and LOS brackets right? It reflects just fine how you can hit way the fuck out there but it's hard to get the aim perfect in ten seconds while everything in bucking around. Careful aim helps somebody who is laying a trap or sniping though.

>>49962116

>Depends on the critical rolls. You have seen the Urbanmech comic, right?

Nah. Cray and others have run he numbers on the energy output needed to wreck a ton of solid steel (which results in extremely conservative numbers because BT armour isn't just steel, it's steel with diamond fibre reinforcement over some other dense metal I can't remember the name of) and scaled that to the Small Laser's 3 points of damage. Energy output was high enough to turn the Abrams into a puddle of molten metal.

>>49962211

>CGL

FASA. If you're gonna blame someone at least blame the right people.

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>>49962579
Hey, Melissa was 18 when I married her!
Shit was so cash.

SSW update when?

>>49963702

Never, he does the MUL now.

Is there ANY faction that uses small cockpits on more than one-offs other than the Word of Blake?

>>49962461

As a general rule, the dumber their post is, the more likely that they're 'only pretending' to be retarded. This isn't absolute. I've seen some deep-down scarily stupid shit posted here in earnest. But in general it's true.

Also watch out for the ones who start shitposting wildly when they're losing an argument as some kind of kamikaze damage control.

>>49963917
Republic of the Sphere (using old WoB designs)
Davion (One Phoenix era variant and DA homegrown tech)
Liao (Jihad variants and DA homegrown tech)
Steiner (One variant)
New Comguard (for the tiny time they existed)

You know, just going into megamek advanced search and selecting small cockpit does all the work for you.

>>49964022
Oh, and some Old is the New New upgrades.

>Dat fuckin Lyran/RotS Clint

What weapons pair well with snubbies, either on the same mech or on a buddy mech?

>>49964230
Something longer range. Snubbies are mainly your close in bracket guns. Because without that 9 hex short range, you might as well be packing regular PPC's and doing more damage. Even with some cheap LRM's, you can be sitting pretty at 7 hexes and getting all short numbers all the time.

Of course you can also go balls to the wall close brawler and just stack a bunch of cheap critseekers in there to take advantage of the holes the snubbie is blowing in the enemy.

As someone new to the tabletop, one thing I don't understand is what is the in-universe reasoning for running on pavement being more difficult than running on dirt or through a field?
Why is there a chance to skid any time a mech (or other vehicles) turns while running on a road but not over bare ground?

>>49964310
Because Battletech physics run on "fuck you"

>>49964310
Can't dig your feet into the turf. You'll notice that wheeled vehicles can also skid in similar conditions. Only thing that doesn't is tracked tanks.

Running on pavement is basically mech drifting, leaning the whole machine into cornering and such, not just letting the DI do all the work. It's why you need a piloting roll.

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>>49964357

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AC5-loving Rookie from yesterday here
Here's my 3049 (I guess it's Marik themed) lance made from your suggestions
- Archer -4M
- Archer -2S (Salvaged?)
- Lancelot -03 (seems a better choice than a Rifleman, but I can't find precise availability for this variant)
- Shadow Hawk -5M (maybe swap for a Wolvie or Griffin)

If customization is allowed, the ARC-2S loses a ton of LRM ammo for CASE in both side torsos, and maybe one of the rear lasers is front-mounted

Is it good enough?

Also reposting this nifty variant you guys made

>>49964478
>precise availability for this variant
Downtech lancelots are rare as fuck and only exist in the Draconis Combine at the time you're playing.

Also, the Calloway Archer and Shad will be extremely rare as they're starting production right at your game start. Depending on when the Archer actually rolled off the line, might not even be any at the time you play if the first ones don't hit the showroom floor until fall or winter of 3049.

Why 3049 though? Mariks don't do shit but chortle while they make loads of money during the invasion.

Question: is there any anime or big robot shows you like other than Battletech?
I love Fang of the Sun Dougram not just for the models, but the story. I'm glad FASA was allowed to use the art for the early mechs.

>>49964600
>Why 3049 though? Mariks don't do shit but chortle while they make loads of money during the invasion.
No particular reason, I just saw which faction had my chosen mechs in that era
I don't really have any preference between the houses/periphery guys, but I like to have lore coherency with my forces
I only played with standard and introtech so far, I've yet to try in practice the more advanced technology and the whole Clan shtick (beside the videogames obliviously)
However, I'm finding the pre-succession wars timeline quite interesting, especially when Stephan Amaris calls Kerensky a faggot, shoots a dumb kid with the swaggiest pistol, and becomes king of the IS for 10 years

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>>49964645
I like the Iron-Blooded Orphans.
Since the feeling looking at the Gray Death Legion in spite of the Gundam.

>>49964645
Lots. But it's hard to find one that's got Battletech's kind of earthy feel. Like you said, Dougram. Crusher Joe feels very Battletech even though it doesn't have much in the way of mechs. Dirty Pair is kind of similar in that respect. So is Irresponsible Captain Tyler. A bunch of the UC Gundams can be pretty good mechwise. Trigun has the Succession Wars feel in spades. Patlabor is pretty much the days of a Battletech security mech force on a backwater world. Memories is just excellent for a salvage operation.

Don't forget the actual Battletech cartoon from the 90's. It's cheesy as all hell but somehow manages to be pretty charming.

If you just want a general anime list that's a lot bigger, because there's a lot of good shows, but they might be fantasy, full hotblooded super robot or modeled after pure 70's/90's/2000's scifi.

>>49964748
I couldn't make it halfway through the first season. Had some good designs and a decent overarching plot, but man did the episodes themselves tank. I haven't been so disappointed in lost potential in a mech show since Gasaraki.

>>49964733
3049 isn't an era though. It's just a key transitional year. It's like picking 2784 because you want to play the Succession Wars.

The Invasion itself doesn't hit full swing until early 3051.

>>49964748
I quit because the politics were awful, even for a Gundam show.

>>49964776
The Irresponsible Captain Tylor and Patlabor are absolutely awsome.
Dragonar is pretty good as well as Vifam I think it's called. I don't know if they are Battletech quality though.

>>49964645
>big robot shows
Shows, not a whole lot, but mainly because there's not a whole lot out there.

Of course, Robot Jox for camp and so-bad-it's-good'ness. As far as Animu goes, beyond the aforementioned Dougram (I actually did not get any enjoyment out of Macross save for saying "Oh, it's a rifleman" a few times), my love of Battletech ended up inspiring me to watch Escaflowne, which in turn gave me a big weeaboo phase, eventually making me come back to Battletech.

Game media? If you haven't already, the Front Mission series of games are right up our alley, and though they're dated, the Earthsiege games were really good, too. It's a travesty that Sierra decided to shelve the whole giant robot part of the franchise when Starsiege Tribes took off.

>>49965054
These two MIGHT be interesting to some people.
Armored Trooper Votoms
and
Armor Hunter Mellowlink

Mellowlink is on youtube and Votoms is in the process of being put on youtube on the same channel. Votoms is more gritty than Dougram, and I only found it blah. I just started Mellowlink, which is in the same universe as Votoms and it looks a bit better.

Also I have a retarded fondness for Macross II even though it's crap. The mecha designs and warship designs of the UN Spacy fleet were cool back in the day.

I second the emotion about Macross not being too enjoyable. Seeing the old Unseen in action at times was cool.

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>>49965094
Macross Plus movie was seriously awesome.
And the soundtrack by Yoko Kanna was excellent.

I'd also second Tylor and Patlabor, both are a little old but still great.

Dancouga was kind of neat for one of those old 1980s combiner into a big mech shows.

Genesis Climber MOSPEADA had those battle armor that turned into motorcycles, and some decent mechs. One of them ended up in that Spider and the Wolf comic from Fasa back in the day. It's a pity the show ended with just a terrible ending.

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Gunbuster also deserves an honorable mention for getting mechwarrior cockpit uniforms right.

So uh, I play MWO (don't judge I just like blowing mechs up), and I was just wondering for theme purposes because I like that sort of thing, does using Clan Mechs mean you're not with the Inner Sphere?

>>49965684
Depends on the era, really.

In early Clan Invasion and MWO's "alternate timeline", Inner Sphere is not supposed to have any ClanTech.

In mid-late Invasion and beyond, the IS start getting ClanTech and Clan 'Mechs either through salvage or through trading with the Warden Clans.

>>49964992
Dragonar has a main character mech like the Raven with ECM capacilities. IIRC it deflects missiles this way and is kind of ugly, but useful.

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>>49964776
>>49964992
Patlabor, hell yeah!
Kanuka a cute.

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>>49965462
Speaking of busters, there's this. I would pay for a BT anime centred on these upstanding men and women.

>>49966187
>Space weebs being disgusted by bigger space weebs
Sasuga Kuroryu

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>>49966187
Only if done by Gainax,
if it's KyoAni I'm out.

>>49965926
Around what year is the alternate MWO timeline in anyway?

>>49966337
MWO is in 3052 right now. About to roll into 3053 as soon as the new calendar year begins.

>>49964645
>is there any anime ... you like other than Battletech?

Honestly, Girls und Panzer is one of my favorite things.

I guess that makes me a pedo too, according to >>49962579, but it's just a fun, adorable show to watch that scratches my /k/ itch adequately.

Andurien Rangers campaign anon here, got a request to throw out there:

A custom variant of a heavy mech for a Humphreys NPC my players are going to be escorting. Could be anything available to the League in the mid 3060s that you think cries "Andurien".

I was thinking maybe a Warhammer or Marauder.

To the anon last thread who thought the MAD and WHM were too Regulan, I just thought they'd fit as being pretty common, since Regulus is next door and could be bought from, the Rim Commonality makes one too and so does Free Worlds Defense Industries (and they have a connection through Andurien AeroTech). I mean it doesn't have to be either a MAD or WHM but I feel like they fit Andurien as well as Regulus.

Is Full Metal Panic a good enough Battletech-like show? It's been a while since I have seen it, but if I'm right doesn't it have ground based mechs that fight rather "realistically" until the weird stuff happens later in the series?

Also Sasuke and Chidori forever.

>>49966746

Pedo.

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>>49964478
AC/5?

Why not Heavy Rifles instead?

WHM instead of MAD, but showing off the comparable and often advantageous Heavy Rifles over AC/5s

>>49967083
>Regulans
>Sharing with Anduriens

Heh.

Also, sarna saying Tematagi makes the Warhammer is bupkiss. That's an error from the original House Marik book they corrected way back in TRO:3050. That place has always been Spider central. The only other place in the FWL that made Marauders was Gibson (they changed the name of the plant on the world from FWLDF to Gibson Federated in Objective Raids). And Tommy Boy gave that to the robes back in '54.

You asked about iconic though. Anybody and their dog can scratch up a Marauder or a Warhammer somewhere. They're some of the oldest continually produced machines in the sphere. But in the FWL, they are iconic of Regulus. Well, at least until they go full tard in the DA and switch over to Neanderthals and Violators.

Anduriens got a few iconic things, Stingrays, Space Dragon Infantry, Quickdraws and Stalkers but saying Warhammers or Marauders is plain laughable. Doesn't mean they don't have some and don't use them because they sure do, but they sure don't scream Andurien.

>>49967083
How about the whacky and baffling spectacle of a Quickdraw that doesn't suck?

>>49967541
>Not driving one that sucks even more than usual
It could be like Red Jack Ryan. The pirate king drove a broken ass Quickdraw while his lancemates were in an Awesome, Orion and Thunderbolt. Now I feel the need to paint "Haha Butte Hold" on a Quickdraw

>>49967720

In fairness, who's going to bother shooting at a broke-ass Quickdraw when you have an Orion, Thud, and Awesome bearing down at you?

It's like a variation on the old joke about "I don't have to outrun the bear; I just have to outrun you."

>>49967449
Handbook House Marik confirms Nimakachi made the Warhammer, and had plans to continue it again on the eve of the Jihad. And I don't see the Regulans, during peacetime, being averse to selling to pretty much anyone but maybe Liaos. None of those common mechs really "scream" either province, they're just produced by companies in those areas. Simply correcting the record.

>>49967449
I suppose I associate the Warhammer with the Anduriens because it was a Defender's WHM that 86'd Duncan Marik.

>>49967541
I'd be interested in a highspeed QuickDraw variant, for certain.

>>49968912
I figured the same with the Regulans. They're merchants first and foremost, after all.

>>49968912
>None of those common mechs really "scream" either province, they're just produced by companies in those areas

Correcting the record back the other way, what a place produces is what is iconic to them. Is the Shadowhawk a common design? Yeah, you can find it everywhere. But when you talk about iconic mechs of the MoC, then it floats right up to the top of the list. Iconic doesn't mean exclusive.

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>>49968280
>It's like a variation on the old joke about "I don't have to outrun the bear; I just have to outrun you."

It's never a good thing when your lance commander pilots a LAM and nobody else does.
"You guys hold off the Falcons, I'm gonna go get help!"

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>>49969415
Norman Dike is not supposed to be your role model for command. Instead, I suggest pic related.

>>49969328
Iconic implies you think of a faction (Jenner and Dracs, Atlas and Lyrans, Awesome and Mariks) which those common designs you've listed do not do. You tried but that's not how you correct the record.

>>49969328
Trebuchets are literally more iconic to the Regulans than Warhammers and Marauders and they don't even make them...

>>49969585
You just listed some common stuff yourself. Atlas is a common command mech across the board. People meme about Lyran scout lances but they don't think of the Atlas as some kind of mainly Lyran mech. It has too much history everywhere.

>>49967541
>>49969263
Anyone done a Quickdraw with a guass rifle before?

A real one, not a light job.

>>49969669
Trebs are way more iconic of the Marik political power block of the FWL.

>>49969679
Yet they're iconic with the factions I mentioned, which you admit to with the meme reference. That's what iconic is. Also see: >>49969669 who hit the nail on the head with the Regulans. They're known for their Trenchbucket lances.

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>>49967541

>>49969723
Not in the fluff, where they're directly referenced as an iconic part of the Regulan Hussars to the extent that each Hussar regiment keeps at least two lances of the things.

Come on man. It's basic stuff in the original House Marik book, Rolling Thunder and FM FWL.

>>49969832
What's that?

>>49969947
A Solaris Quickdraw. An energy boat with a hatchet.

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>>49969711
relatively easy to design.
but no canon QKD with gauss that I know of

>>49970395
That's not a bad little mech.

>>49970395
Looks like a lighter, more mobile Cestus. I like it

>>49970155
>Capellans don't even build the Quickdraw
>they're getting neat prototypes while manufacturers like the League get squat

I need that emoji with tears in the corners of his eyes

>>49970395
Amateur to the game here but when looking at record sheets like this one how to I tell what type of heat sinks it has and how many tons of armor?

>>49970726
Stop playing NPC factions.

>>49970943
Heat sinks are easy. If you look on the bottom right under Heat Sinks, it's 10 (20) Double. So it has 10 double heat sinks that provide 20 points of dissipation. Armor is a bit trickier, though all you have to know is the armor type (in this case, it looks like it's standard armor), and how many points per ton it provides. Standard has 16 points per ton, and this Quickdraw has 192 points, so that's 12 tons.

tl;dr, 10 DHS, 12 tons armor.

>>49971058
Thank you! Will the record sheet specify if the armor is anything but standard?

>>49971107
Mostly not on canon record sheets. I've never been sure why, but generally Hardened armor is the only one to be listed on the armor diagram (The type is under the Center Torso total). Instead, you need to infer from the critical slots. If that Quickdraw had Ferro Fibrous armor, it would be listed with Endo Steel in the Critical Hit Table. However, SSW reports everything but Ferro Fibrous on the sheet for easier reference.

Tell me /btg/, what's the shitmech you secretly like?
I dig the Whitworth, the loadout is nice and gives that feel of "trying it's best but it's not enough"

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>>49971314
I'll just leave this here.

>>49971314
Whitworth and Blackjack for me.

>>49971314
Blackjack all the way.

>>49971314
Quickdraw and Trebuchet.

>>49971341
That too, times ten.

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>arguing over what's fluff-accurate for FWL sub-factions

>>49971314
Easily the Blackjack

>>49971314
Probably the Rifleman

>>49971706
Look at me. Look at me. I'm the Muninn now.

>>49971314
Blackjack. Load AP, bully with long range shots.

>>49971341
For real though, I like the Champion, I just wish it could decide what to do. I like the War Dog too, warts and all, it just needs ES. And y'know, regular Streaks. Actually, come to think of it, I don't really have any mechs I consider shitmechs aside from several lights, and that's only because I want my scouts to have as little ammo as possible.

>>49971884
Champion is a good pick.

>>49971314

Awesome 8Q. Not enough firepower for its mass or speed in general, but it somehow manages to do OK most of the time when I have to put down Clan stuff and use IS tech.

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>>49971314
Zeus. A little light for scouting but I made it work.

>>49971939
>Awesome 8Q
>shit mech

I will fight you, and so will half of this thread

Hermes II. It sucks but I have a soft spot for it.

>>49972027
Anon, read the relevant portion:
>when I have to put down Clan stuff
Bait for the bait god.

>>49972053
Ruses for the Ruse Throne. Let the /btg/ burn!

>>49971314
I've got this weird fondness for the Clint, rifleman and malice.
Maybe it's just AC/5s

>>49972027
The Awesome really is the best designed mech in the game, next to the Hellstar which is a clan Awesome

>>49972053

It's not bait. I expect an 80-ton Mech to put out more than 20 or 30 points of firepower in a turn if it's going to be only 3/5. Therefore, it's too slow, or it's undergunned, or both.

I can take a Gargoyle A that does 40+ damage AND is 5/8 instead, and Gargoyles are not good Mechs. So yeah, compared to what I usually play, Awesomes are shitmechs. I genuinely have no idea why people like the things when better options are available.

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>>49971903
>>49971834

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>>49972111
Well yes, if you only play with Clan gear, then a mech designed without those massive advantages will be difficult for you to use. Of course, that just makes you a shit player for not expanding outside of your niche, but to each their own.

>>49971834
>>49971903
>>49972114
pic related.

>>49972097
Clint and Assassin for me.

>>49972177

Excuse me for playing with the stuff I find fun, and not wanting to play with deliberately gimped technology. Who else is having their fun wrong?

>>49972294
Unless you're playing with Zell, or are playing with more than the "staples" of Clan gear, then yes, you're doing it wrong. Your fun is bad and you should feel bad.

>>49972294
I know this is obviously bait, but people who play clans purely for the sake of clantech are the worst kinds of players

Gentlemen, how do we *improve* the RoTS' backstory fluff?

>>49972922
We must change the Successor Houses back story first. RotS fluff is all right, it just doesn't match the existing fluff.

>>49972922

Delete the ROTS. Best way.

>>49970395
I like it. Might just use it.

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>>49973108
>RotS fluff is all right, it just doesn't match the existing fluff.
Pre-Clan Invasion fluff was great, The House books are still the best stuff written, Clan stuff is a little bad, but semi-believable. By the time it gets to the Fedcom Civil War it gets moronic, I mean how stupid can Victor be?

RoTS fluff makes no sense whatsoever, unless you change Devlin Stones name to "Mary Sue" and every other leaders name "Moron McStupidpants."

>>49972922
It's actually the WoB in disguise.

>>49972922
>how do we *improve* the RoTS' backstory fluff?

You don't. They're basically the new tranny faction writ large: author favorites who jumped into relevance with no explanation or without deserving it aside from "we're the authors, we say so." And just like anybody who likes the trannies, anyone who likes the RotS is a piece of hot human garbage who we don't need shitting up our fanbase.

The only reasonable course would be to remove the RotS entirely and restore the worlds it possesses to their original successor states (with Terra going to the CapCon in order to even out relative state power levels). Then and only then can we make progress in the timeline without it being completely mary sue.

>>49972922
Since you said improve and not fix, I'd increase the size of stone's followers as a portion of the coalition. As stands, they're basically an afterthought, and a more significant role would slightly increase the reasonablility of the RoTS army size

A while back someone posted a doc about what the MoC likes in their mechs. Anyone have it handy?

>>49973936

Dicks.

>>49973995
Most of their pilots are female :^)

>>49973314
>Pre-Clan Invasion fluff was great
Hahahahahahahahahaha


>The House books are still the best stuff written

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Sorry, but SW is exactly why any fluff written for Battletech will never make sense. Pre Clan Invasion the game was just FEUDALISM IN SPAAAACE. The fluff was terrible, literally space America being better than Space Commies, and the low scale warfare was specially bad for a war game. You probably are old enough to remember the game from your teenage years and the nostalgia goggles are blinding you

>>49972922

The Houses don't hand over as many units and planets to them. RotS military is much smaller (maybe more high-tech to compensate courtesy of the Bears and Sharks) but they also have a smaller realm.

The amount of shit the Houses handed over is just ridiculous, you've got long-standing and highly loyal troops being gifted to the RotS (sink units like the Legions of Vega or problem children like the Sirian Lancers, sure, but not the good ones) and Houses like the Dracs handed over their most valuable industrialised district just so the RotS map would be consistently sized. The former Chaos March and WoB protectorate worlds that are deemed shitholes after the fighting or too much of a pain in the ass to re-integrate, sure, but again, not valuable ones that weren't giving them trouble.

>>49974192

"female"

>>49973936
Man, that was a long time back. I'll see, but checking the archive might be more productive

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>>49973429
>(with Terra going to the CapCon in order to even out relative state power levels)
Ah Ha ha!!!
Gee, why not give Terra to the Rassalhoovians? Or maybe the Mica Majority. I know - let's make the Blood Spirits the ilClan!

Capellan Confederation deserves nothing but Davion dick in their mouths, forever. The weak should fear the strong.

>>49974228
>You probably are old enough to remember the game from your teenage years and the nostalgia goggles are blinding you
My first 'mech sheet was printed out on a Coleco Adam, that should tell you something. But I don't think I'm being a grognard, the RoTS stuff just doesn't really have the charm of the old stuff. I think Catalyst did a great job with what they had to work with but being tied to the Clickytech timeline killed it.

But anyhow, it's just big, stompy robots after all.

>>49973995

At risk of starting another shitstorm, at what point are the MoC sex memes going to go away? They're already incredibly tired and unfunny, and nobody thinks your at all clever for posting them. Why bother?

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>>49974437
I'm starting an online petition;
"Totally Respect All Magistracy Pilots!"
Oh wait, That Spells "TRAMP"

OK then, "Boys I'm Magistracy Butt Out!"
Whoops, "BIMBO"

How about "Canopian Units Not Trollops"?
Wait, no ...

>>49974437
When they stop being a meme faction/one trick pony.

That matriarchy garbage simply doesn't work, and yeah I say that about a setting with mechs existing.

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>>49974437

OK, just because you asked nicely, I'll give you a totally candid answer. Why the fuck not?

Speaking solely for myself, as long as I post here, I will never let them die. The MOC is a lame feminist-faction that shouldn't have existed in the first place. If by my efforts I can drive away veteran players who are fans of that faction, or discourage new players who might be inclined to join up with that faction, then eventually with some luck the MOC will lose its fanbase. Nothing important will have been lost, because not a single person who enjoys the MOC as a faction has ever contributes anything worthwhile to the meta of this game. Without a market share to pressure CGL into keeping it around, the MOC will eventually die in favor of more products about Davions or Capellans since those are what make money.

Playing the long game like this is hard, thankless work. But every time I can get somebody to quit who would have supported SJW shit in what is otherwise a mostly-decent game, it makes the effort worthwhile. I can tell you that as long as I have internet access, I personally am not ever going to give SJWs a free ride into this game. As long as the MOC exists as a 1-stop shop for SJW pandering, I will never, ever, stop.

>>49974437
Frankly, until TPTB does something with them other than "titties and success". It's unfortunately a large part of their characterization, and how extremely out of place it is in battletech at all, let alone in one of the major factions

>>49974792
>>49974907

How could they be improved then without losing that one trick, though?

>>49974907
Good point. To add, frankly them being a "major faction" at all. The Periphery needs to stay the Periphery, and when they don't they need to end up like the TC did.

>>49974847
May be bait, may not, but honestly I agree that it's gotten annoying.

>>49974437
because it gets replies, as you have unintentionally proved. Replies are what keep trolls and shitposters going. It's pretty simple

>>49974935

You can't. I don't mean that like the guy who was bitching about the ROTS upthread. I mean that there's nothing to the MOC <besides> that one trick of titties and success. There's nothing else to build from. That's why people say that the MOC has to be squatted as a faction, because they're aware that there's no hope for that faction to improve. Improvement is impossible from the base the faction is coming from.

In fairness, a lot of this is FASA's fault. They're the ones who made the MOC what they are, and while CGL hasn't helped insofar as they haven't completely retconned the faction, there's really nothing that they can do with it. The alliance/merger with the Capellans was a valiant effort in making the MOC not completely shit, but by hitching them to the Capellans (who are Coleman-shit themselves) they screwed up. If the MOC was hitched to the FWL and became essentially another province, it might have worked.

But now the faction is just beyond hope.

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>>49974935
Well that's the thing: the MoC has nothing. As is often lamented here they had shit for industry for most of their history and have only been propelled further by the good fortune of Sun-Tzu rubbing off. They even avoided any real shit in the Jihad by more good fortune.

They need to actually be developed as a faction to be improved, and that includes either giving them real industry of their own, an agenda of their own besides "auxiliary Capellan commonality/porn shop", and a culture that doesn't try to juggle "womyn stronk" with "b-b-but men aren't REALLY oppressed, they all simply CONSENT to be second-class citizens for no reason".

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>>49974999
>hitched to the FWL and became essentially another province

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

>>49975006
>They need to actually be developed as a faction to be improved, and that includes either giving them real industry of their own, an agenda...and a culture

This would make them a major faction. As >>49974963 points out, that is unacceptable.

>>49975030

I thought the point was to have the MOC further developed. How would making them part of the FWL possibly accomplish that? You have to be written about to be developed.

>>49974999
To be fair to FASA, their MoC at least had the added dimension of "the only periphery state who *wants* to be involved in Inner Sphere business" and the whole "space vegas pleasure palace economy" part was falling the fuck apart, which gave a somewhat different feel compared to when it's doing fine

>>49974935

By not letting Kit write them again ever.

Same with all the factionfag authors. Jellico shouldn't write the Bears, Alex Knight the Suns, MadCap the capellans, etc.

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>>49974437
MoC:
Years in Operation: 615(As of 3145)
Total Contributions to Battletech Universe: Pleasure Circus, Myomer Strap-ons, TurboHerpes (As of 3145)

>>49974792
>>49974907
>>49974963
>>49974999
>>49975006
Plus the transparent and nonsensical favoritism they're shown. Like that nonsense about them building like 5-7 (whatever it was) new regiments in a matter of years with no explanation of the source of the mechs and their industry being garbage, while in the same time the Taurians (known for having a large military industrial complex) shrink by a few regiments and can't even replace them.

It's just such sloppy, poor writing. I can't imagine why anyone likes the Canopians after spending more than five minutes reading their fluff.

>>49975320
>I can't imagine why anyone likes the Canopians after spending more than five minutes reading their fluff.

Speaking as a Dracfag, I feel the same way about the Davions (magic warehouses) and the Capellans (COLEMAAAAN!) and the Lyrans (magic mountain that shits out assault Mechs). Somebody probably feels the same about my faction, even though I have no idea why they would.

The point is, everybody has fluff which speaks to them and fluff which they find stupid. Everybody's faction has shit writing at times and gets free shit they don't justify except with an authorial asspull. If everyone's writing is shit, nobody's is. IMO, the only reason the MoC gets piled on is because the "lolsex" effect, and because they're run exclusively by women (instead of periodically like most other factions).

>>49974847
I for one sincerely support you. Fuck the Ebon Magistrate being a top-tier intel agency, fuck them even having an economy, fuck their blatant fetishism...

>>49962781
Steel and diamond fibers woven around boron nitride, which is almost as hard as diamond.

The steel is treated with a process the CGL-era books call "radiation casting", which is never described to any degree. It's one of the settings "looks like magic BS" fixtures, along with myomers imparting superior performance and allowing giant robots to be way, way better than tanks at just about everything.

>>49974847
OW THE EDGE

Hey y'all, I'm planning on using battletech to play out giant robots doing fights in a homebrew sci-fi setting of mine
Any suggestions on how to make alien mechs of roughly the same tech level FEEL different than the human design, which will be mostly using standard IS tech?

>>49971314
CRD-3R.
turn 1: Dump the MG ammo if you're not feeling froggy.
Next 8 turns: Spam LRMs
Next 7 turns: SRMs and punches for the survivors.

>>49975320

The Taurians shrank because they tried attacking the FedSuns during the FCCW.

When you look at the growth of the TDF and Magistracy forces and account for TDF Battalions having an extra company they actually grow by about the same amount between 20 Year Update and FM: P. I don't know why this has you so mad; the Taurians did that mostly with domestic production, the Magistracy had to suck Capellan dick and buy on the open market.

Not that you really want to get into this any way, since like 16 Drac regiments just *vanish* between 20 YU and their FM, and those units never even fought the Clans. And even though they somehow managed to replace almost 30 regiments after the War of 3039 in the space of 11 years they can't replace 15 or so in twenty following the Clan Invasion.

On the other extreme you've got the Suns crapping out like 15 regiments of 3067 tech in the *four months* following the FCCW.

Production shit and growth rates just doesn't make sense and it's not like they're deliberately targeting the Taurians with this. There's blatant favouritism like the Suns' magic warehouses and then there's the needs of the plot. The Magistracy isn't even the primary benefactor of those forces, it's the CCAF and that happened because Xin Sheng and the St. Ives War is barely plausible as is, let alone with far fewer Cappellan regiments.

>>49975126
FWL provinces are better developed than the MoC.

>>49975089
Factions can be developed without being "main" factions. The Taurians, for example, are really well developed and I can understand why they attract fans.

>>49976749
No, this shrinking occurred before the FCCW. We've gone over the numbers here before and it's definitely a load that some MoCfag probably slipped through without fact checking, or frankly lazy fact checking like with the Dracs.

>>49975490
Whether you like or hate the Magistracy, MIM and the Ebon Magistrate is top tier bullshit (and the latter particularly cringy for a name).

>>49977115

That bit definitely.

"Lol suddenly we're better than WoB ROM, because Kit is writing us this week."

>>49976371
You kinda need to give us some info on the ayys to go from before we can answer that
>>49976749
>and buy on the open market
Which the taurians were also doing a great deal of, although that fact seems to have been forgotten or ignored somewhere between P2e and FM:P (but then, so were a lot of other things)

>>49976749
The open market in the era of the greatest build up by the two largest Successor States in years? Where the FWL's production was earmarked for those Outreach treaties to the extent that they were still short on PPCs and weren't fully upgrading their own forces? That was a seller's market and the poor-ass MoC, even if there WERE mechs available to buy, wouldn't be able to get a foot in to buy one regiment's worth let alone a half dozen.

>>49977444
You forgot to mention they also were replacing combat losses in the St.Ives war and Chaos march. Losses that forced the more developed and militarily-inclined Taurians to disband several regiments.

It's sad, sloppy writing.

>>49977486
There seems to be a lit of confusion as to which of the nonsensical MoC military buildups are being talked about; the 3050-58 one, with no losses for the MoC and TC and reasonable TC growth, 3058-62, where the MoC rebuilt and grew, while the TC couldn't even replace losses, and 62-67, where the same thing happened, but more so

>>49977444

This. There shouldn't even BE an "open market" for mechs at all. With the production rates given and the rarity of mech forces and the low cost of mech purchasing (relative to national GDPs), mechs simply should not be for sale at all, and should be exported only as a result of treaties or inter-company quid pro quo that the government gives its permission to.

Yet another instance of shit writing.

>>49977101

IMO it's fact-checking. That stuff all pre-dates Kit being a writer by a decade. He's a huge problem, but lets put the blame where the blame is due. The MOC is shit entirely because of what FASA did when initially writing it. Catalyst hasn't helped, but almost the entirety of what we're complaining about (Ebon Magistrate being badass, mystery Mech buildup, source of stuff from somewhere in the Periphery, etc) was set up during the mid-1990s and the FCCW. The main thing that CGL fucked up on was trying to make them storyline relevant by shacking them up with the Cappies instead of the League, but I actually think that their heart was in the right place for doing that, even if they cocked up the execution.

>>49977546
It's the 3057-3064 one pretty much covered in FM:P. The MAF is building new regiments and repairing old ones in the same space the TDF is losing regiments because somehow its industry no longer exists.

>>49977579
>but almost the entirety of what we're complaining about (Ebon Magistrate being badass, mystery Mech buildup, source of stuff from somewhere in the Periphery, etc) was set up during the mid-1990s and the FCCW
To be specific, most of it is from Field Manual: Periphery, FM:CC and FM:U, which is all from the 2001-03 Coleman Era at the very end of the FASA run and start of the fanpro run.
The mysterious shit source was literally a canon rumor from fucking MECHWARRIOR 1E that got whipped out recently after 25 years of not ever being referenced

>>49977546
>the 3050-58 one, with no losses for the MoC and TC and reasonable TC growth,

No problem with this one, since everybody everywhere was building back up. It's OK that the MoC did too. As long as everyone is maintaining a rough parity, I see no issues with everybody gaining slightly larger numbers, and I honestly don't give a shit about somebody quoting production numbers at me.


>62-67, where the same thing happened, but more so

This one is also mostly OK, because the Cappies are very explicitly feeding Mech production into the MoC. We may not agree that the numbers match out, but as explanations go, this is at least backed up by several years of fluff (Cappies have been helping jump-start Mech production in the MoC for years, plus getting Detroit up and running) and beats the pants out of Davion-style Magic Warehouses that ave no justification at all and come completely out of nowhere.

>3058-62, where the MoC rebuilt and grew, while the TC couldn't even replace losses

This one is complete and utter bullshit, and whomever wrote it and/or approved the plot thread should feel ashamed. How this buildup happened, especially in light of everything else going on in the Periphery, is completely inexcusible.

>>49977614
Yeah, I knew which one you were talking about, I actually didn't mean to reply to you, but people upthread were also referring to the 50-57 buildup

>>49977695
You're good. To be honest I regret this topic coming up because it always causes such a shitstorm.

To semi-change the topic, what were the Dracs building around 3025? Aside from Dragons and Panthers.

>>49977670
>Cappies have been helping jump-start Mech production in the MoC
Fun fact, those were both originally taurian initiatives, but were literally retconned into being capellan from the get-go

>>49977756
Medron come on

>>49977735
I think Warhammers, bugs, wolverines (I think), Atlases, either the marauder or thud? I think another assault too, but I'm not really up on the dracs

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>>49977756

Try harder next time.

>>49977735

It's actually been pretty OK this time. As far as any of the discussions about whether or not a faction is inherently shit ever do stay OK, anyway.

>>49977781
He's partially correct; periphery 2e describes the taurians helping the MoC build mech factories, though I don't have my copy handy so I can't say if detroit is specifically mentioned or not.

>>49977735
>what were the Dracs building around 3025?

Depends on whether you want to include the TRO3039 retcons, or if you want to discuss legitimate Battletech fluff.

>>49977735
Speaking of dracs, you know what's a cool mech that deserves more play?
The Orochi.

>>49977798
I never really have either, and I'm feeling the urge to jump in and work on a Drac force.

>>49977838
Oh?

>>49977886
>9 shots each for 2 T-Bolt 20s
You're joking right? Anything less than 12 isn't effective.

>>49977886

The 'Mech the FedSuns have held the factory for longer than the Dracs? Yet which is inexplicably a Drac exclusive?

>>49977946

Also this. Swapping the Streak-4s for standard 4s would have been a good idea

>>49977827

Detroit Mechworks was a joint MoC/Taurian ownership project that was going basically nowhere until the CapCon stepped in, formed the Trinity Alliance in 3058, and started providing technical expertise. Detroit was by no means strictly a Taurian initiative, as >>49977756 idiotically implies; the MoC was involved essentially from the start with the Taurian Treaty in 3056. After Caulderon's death on Detroitin 3061, the Trinity Alliance started semi-breaking up under the weight of Shraplen's paranoia, and by 3063 TDF forces were going house-to-house on Detroit looking for Davion spies and firing on civvies. The MoC didn't formally annex Detroit until 3066, and the fluff is fairly clear that Capellan troops ensured that until then, production was evenly split between the Trinity powers.

It's also interesting to note that the New Colony Region expansion (of which Detroit was a part) started being developed by both the TC and MoC in the early 3050s as part of the buildup to the Taurus Treaty, and that's when the production lines on Detroit were laid down. Capellan assistance in building the factories starting in 3058, and the first production line opened in 3060. It could literally not be made any clearer that this factory was a shared venture. Anybody bitching about the factory being the "rightful property" of either the TC <or> the MoC is a fucking idiot, Medron, or both.

>>49977946
It's not optimal, but it is fun.
>>49977986
>The 'Mech the FedSuns have held the factory for longer than the Dracs?
Dark Age, right? I'm a recovering grog, and I've only picked up 3085 recently, so I don't know much. That sounds pretty lame, though

>>49977986
>The 'Mech the FedSuns have held the factory for longer than the Dracs?

Meh. Who makes the Victor again? The mech literally named after the leader of the Suns and which by all rights should be the definition of "iconic" for that faction?

Right. Capellans and Dracs. Factories change hands. Get the fuck over it.

>>49977904
>Oh?

he's describing the difference between new fluff and good fluff.

TRO 3039 added in a ton of previously-extinct (or ComStar-only, which is the same thing) Star League designs to the militaries of the Successor States to counteract the removal of the old Unseen designs. Unfortunately, a gigantic plot point was that nobody has seen those Mechs in 300 years, and it caused confusion in the Sun's ranks when they showed up, which allowed the Dracs to kick the shit out of the Suns in the War of 3039.

Now, as of that TRO, all of those designs have MAGICALLY been in active production since the fall of the Star League (even the ones only made on Terra), and so the entirely storyline of the War of 3039 makes absolutely no goddamn sense. So when you're asking about available Drac Mechs, should one include those Star League Mechs or not?

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>>49977986
>Also this. Swapping the Streak-4s for standard 4s would have been a good idea
I'd prefer a swap to T-Bolt 15s over 20s. Then you can get 4 tons per launcher, and with left over tonnage, add another heat sink, 2 ERMLs and a C3s, just in case someone gets close.

>49978062
>It's not optimal, but it is fun.
Shallow ammo bins are a liability in anything but a standup fight on a 2x2 map. I've had games go up to 20+ turns, and a mech not having ammo for its primary weapon for most of that time are bad investments.

>>49977986
>>49978062
>>49978211
Going to thud-15s and swapping the streaks for LLs might be an interesting refit

>>49978076

>Meh. Who makes the Victor again?

The Suns recaptured Quentin in the Dark Age and built a line for it on Robinson in the late '50s.

The point isn't that the factory changed hands, it's that it did it after a stupidly short time of even being built, has been out of Drac hands ever since, and neither the RotS or Suns who've held it since are using it because... reasons?

Why not just put the factory somewhere else, like New Samarkand? They knew what the DA maps were going to be like, after all.

>>49978580
>has been out of Drac hands ever since, and neither the RotS or Suns who've held it since are using it because... reasons?
>Why not just put the factory somewhere else, like New Samarkand? They knew what the DA maps were going to be like, after all.
Honestly, it's entirely probable that they literally didn't notice that the factory was on a world that changed hans in the DA. Fact-checking and cross-referencing are not exactly skills that CGL are known for

>>49978670

You might say that, but it's something they praise themselves to the high heavens for, especially Roosterboy and MadCap.

>>49978670
>>49978722

You say that, but look what happened to the Black Thorns.

>>49977735
>Part 1/2

Atlases on Al Na'ir, which would also start building Catapults in the early 3030's. On Luthien, Dragons (though 3024 was when they started switching production to early model Grand Dragons), Quickdraws, Chargers (by this point production was probably focused on the -1L model being exported to the Caps, and production would cease a few years later, eventually to lead to the Hatamoto project), and downgraded Lancelots (assuming retcons, and the downgrade models are not great). Panthers on Alshain, and sometime around the mid to late 3020s, Jarett. Spiders at Lapida II, and Stinger LAMs at Irece. Phoenix Hawks on New Oslo, probably. Oddly, Clan Wolf would later refit the New Oslo facility to make Locust IICs even though no source ever mentions Locusts being built there. On the other hand, TRO 3025 says Locusts are made at 8 different factories, and 8 different locations are mentioned in pre-3050 sources, but TRO 3039 says there are 'nearly a dozen', so maybe?

Also of note, Jenners at Ozawa before the factory was destroyed in the Second War (and despite the planet being in Feddie hands through most of the game's history; a new/retcon Jenner line is added to LAW in the 3040s), and Warhammers and Wolverines from Alamgamated Sword and Steel, location unknown, mentioned only in FR2765:DCMS, and presumably destroyed during the Wars. The Dracs may have also produced Archers at Hun Ho during the Succession Wars, though that factory is only mentioned before the SW period in FR2765 and in Jihad and later sources, so maybe it got trashed and rebuilt in the interim. On the other hand, TRO 3039 says it's built at six factories but only five are named in other sources of that time period, so again, maybe? Even if not, it's the Archer, they're everywhere.

>>49977735
Part 2/2

First Succession War also mentions they had a lot of Shadow Hawks, apparently purchased during the Star League era, and that a lot of the were refitted to -1Ks. Can't say how many survived to 3025, but if they started with a lot, probably more than a few.

Lastly, Marduk and Quentin are border worlds that were raided/changed hands, so they'd get some Atlases, Griffins, Jagermechs, Marauders, Victors, and Wolverines out of that.

>>49978859

Somewhat new player here (2 years). What happened to them? How is a regiment at all relevant to the issue of location fact-checking?

>>49978952
The Black Thorns' last location before the Jihad kicked off was Galedon. The Plague of Galedon was released during the early years, and literally none of TPTB remembered the Black Thorns were on the planet until someone pointed it out.

>>49978952
They killed a world with a bioweapon and forgot that a famous unit was stationed there. So the Black Thorns didn't even get a mention as being dead until like three books later.

Random design challenge idea:
Build the most stereotypically DARK AGE mech that you can. The more baffling the design choices involved, the better

>>49979189
But that one Malice with the XXL engine that's the world's most expensive artillery spotter already exists, anon.

>>49978917

Archer used to be built at Ozawa too.

>>49979072
>>49979080

Huh. So much for fact checking being so important, then. Thanks.

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>>49979189
HPG mech, or pic related? Because I really like pic related.

>>49979080
>Black Thorns
>famous

They're about as famous as the 1st NAIS Training Cadre or something. A name to be recognized, but barely even a footnote to a sideshow. The Black Thorns weren't even a large outfit.

>b-b-but muh novels

So? It's not like Blood Avatar means backwater cops are a major part of BT now.

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>>49979256
Genuinely curious, you got a source on that?
>the list feeds on page references
>oh how it hungers

>>49979290
Damn, add some kind of weird armor and it's perfect

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>>49979353
Done.

>>49979351

My bad, I was misremembering the entry in the old TR 3025. The pilot's name in it was Ozawa.

>>49979326
When you get two novels as a merc unit, you're automatically more famous than 90% of the other merc units to the fans. They're not Gray Death or the Goons, but it would be about like wiping out the Caballeros on accident.

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>>49979437
Despite remembering that detail wrong, I'm still impressed you remembered it.

Also, thanks for checking.

>it is apparently Banshee reaction image night

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>>49979495

>>49979395
Excellent. That's pretty fukkin dark.

>>49979395
Now you need to give it an XL gyro so you can armor the elbow joints. And make the ERSL clantech

Can anyone tell me the basics about the 53rd and 54th Shadow Divisions? Away from books atm.

>>49979395
Too useful. Give it HD armor

>>49979690
It's only got 1 crit left, so no room for the XLG. Unless I swap to a Clan XXL or something.

>>49979851
I tried. It's 9 tons overweight and like 6 crits short.

>>49979828
As far as I can tell, they're the two "New" Shadow Divisions that got trained late in the war.

53rd almost survived the whole war, conquered Poulsbo in 3075, defended it against the FWLM and Lyrans. Got destroyed on Poulsbo with the rest of Poulsbo by Duke Nuke'm Cameron-Jones 3081. Interestingly, the articles in Final Reckoning seem to indicate that they were pretending to be the Heart of Blake mercs or were actually them. I'm not clear on that.


54th only saw action with two other Shadow Divisions on the secret Star League base world of Luyten where they crushed the Comguard in 3078. They survived the whole war and disappeared into the night. As far as I can tell, they are only referenced by name in Final Reckoning.

Sifting through the unfiltered autism of the NGNG podcast, IlClan is supposed to be released "sometime in the spring." Randall wants more novels, especially in the relatively unexplored 3025 era. I'm only halfway through and I just can't take it.

>>49980062
NiGNoG streams and podcasts ARE pretty much unfiltered, raw radioactive autism.

Complete with all the political correctness and double standards of a US/ canadian university campus.

As for more novels in 3025, isn't that one of the most explored god damn eras?

>>49977579
>Yet another instance of FASANomics.

Feels good man.

>>49980121
>As for more novels in 3025, isn't that one of the most explored god damn eras?
Sorry, that was sarcasm that didn't translate well.

>>49980121
>As for more novels in 3025, isn't that one of the most explored god damn eras?
That's the joke.

>>49980225
>>49980146
The Sword and the Dagger, Wolves on the Border, Heir to the Dragon, and the Gray Death Trilogy are all the 3025'ish stuff.

>>49976371
Use projectiles and missiles to arm the human units, give the aliens energy weapons. Also, use standard armor and structure for human units, and give the aliens ES and FF.

>>49980062
>especially in the relatively unexplored 3025 era.

Man fuck that cuck

>>49980146
Further hilarity, this time relating to the new rulebook Randall announced: "Total Warfare is the most clear look at how the game is played." The meat of this book is that it's mechs only, final destination. It looks like it's folding TacOps gear into a single book with TW, and may be including TO rules. Artillery and minefields are noted as being in. He said he's going to post more material on the CGL tumblr in the coming days. It's going to be called the BattleMech Manual.

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>>49980282

Anybody got the PDF for Total Chaos? I never bothered with it before because it was just Chaos Campaign stuff, but apparently it has the info about Case White 2:Blakist Boogaloo when Stone personally led three of the four surviving Comstar armies to their doom.

Also looking for FM:FWL. I have it in paperback but not PDF.

I can't find either in the OP folders.

>>49980282
Somebody needs to Make Battletech Great Again (MBGA)

Maybe Nov 9 Trump can do it, he won't be busy

>>49980062

>3025
>relatively unexplored

What the literal shit?

We have a god damn trilogy for the 4th SW, S&D, and the GDL and two detailed sourcebooks for the 4th SW era and a bunch of scenario packs already.

Advance the fucking plotline already you embezzler enabling neckbeard.

>>49980282

Jesus Christ. Why not just re-publish the BMR with the updated rules? At least that explains things concisely, with the waffling of CGL writing and their boner for shitty miniature dioramas I can imagine this book being at least 50% thicker any way.

>>49980381
>when Stone personally led three of the four surviving Comstar armies to their doom.

Wait what?

>>49966187
what sourcebook is that from man
ive been trying to find it for awhile now

>>49980596
I know, right? They hid it in Total Chaos and I only caught it because it gets a passing mention in the past tense in Final Reckoning.

>>49980601
I bet FM:SLDF, as it is an SLDF unit and itasha wasn't a thing back in the old days. Either that or the SL Era DC Field Report.

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>>49980601
FM SLDF page 194.
Poor bastards got wiped out in the periphery uprising, tho

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>negativity about revisiting 3025-era stuff.

You know, I can't relate with you guys. Not to say that I'm a battledroids grognard - my first army was built to be TW/3067 compliant - but the number of players I run into who know shit-all about the lore beyond the battle of Tukayyid war is like... 1 in 10. Very few of them even support the franchise financially anymore, with the "Everything after XYZ era is garbage" being the common mantra.

Besides that, the way the game is set up right now, it presents the intro box, and then players are expected to be able to cover 130 years worth of new technologies and 8 or 9 TROs worth of new mechs to get up to speed with the current lore. I've always thought that by refusing to release products related to the core introtech product, it was shooting itself in the foot by not only making it difficult for new players to invest, but also not milking the way-too-large-a-proportion grognard population who have refused to buy new product since the Timber Wolf became a thing.

That, and with HBS Battletech coming down the pipe, having some synergy with the tabletop game is a good idea. If it's any bit of a success, I'm sure there'll be enough disgruntled MWO players playing HBS Battletech - and when that runs out, they may want to play some of the tabletop version. Having cool stuff ready at the introductory level is a really good idea. Since Starterbook Sword and Dragon is getting pretty long in the tooth, now, it'd be good to have something else to look at.

If it gets players playing, and it gets players paying, I'm all for it.

>>49980423
>and their boner for shitty miniature dioramas I can imagine this book being at least 50% thicker any way.

I actually kind of like the dioramas just because they're the only thing that keeps the book from looking like a horrifying 70s wargame text dump.

>>49980710
He's talking about how they substitute that shit way too much in the place of proper art.

>>49980721
battletech will never have proper art

>>49980659

The problem is that the 3025 stuff isn't being marketed at new players.

It's being marketed at old players.

CGL does a shit job of keeping the boxed set in circulation, and then doesn't have anything to bring new players up to speed. People will say "oh that's what Sword and Dragon is for" but no. Have you read S&D? It is *not* a newbie-friendly product. The rules for the prototype gear is more complex than that of actual 3050 tech. The 'Mechs and pilots have fiddly special rules. The FedSuns campaign is EZ mode because of the RAT quality. It doesn't even come with any maps. It's intended for people who already understand the rules and already have a collection.

Which is the same base the HBS game is being aimed at. People who are 3025 only, final destination types. People with a collection they've been sitting on for years because they didn't want to go past 3028.

They're already a vocal and seemingly large group on the OF, it's all you see on the HBS site, and if BT throws all its chips in on that crowd it's never going to grow again. Especially since so many of those players *won't* be buying new product. Why would they? They bought it the first time around, after all.

>>49980817
It will someday,
but there will be ponies.

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>>49980887

>>49978144
Like what mechs?

>>49980659
>>49980887
I wish CGL could figure out how to cater to both populations.

Honestly, revisiting the old stuff isn't bad, but they really should update things. Fuck the "sanctity" of that shit. I love 3025 but it's fucking messy like a goddamn Japanese porn starlet after a bukkake shoot. Filled with shit that isn't appealing anymore. It was when it came out, but times and tastes change, and if GW can get away with updating lore and reconning, then why not CGL? Fuck the grogs who think all change is bad. Some of the things in our preferred era are BAD, you fucksticks. It should be changed both to make way for new eras for people who like that sort of thing, and to make OUR era better.

Sometimes I feel like the lone grog in my particular corner. It's not a very good spot to be in; the person who wants to see everyone able to enjoy the game I like.

>>49980977
Honestly, I'm cool with retconning stupid shit, and making shit actually line up along the timeline. It's really not a big fucking deal; as long as you're not changing the core identities of factions and the biggest players, it's all good.

>>49980887
>>49980910
If that wasn't glaringly obvious, I don't know what is.

...but at this point, "Pushing Forward" isn't offering much of anything else, either, except requiring more rulebooks to lug around.

I don't LIKE that the oldbeards refuse to support the company for the cardinal sin of not being 1988 FASA, but if the 3025 stuff manages to revisit the old setting with some sort of new content, whether that's just rehashing it for Alpha Strike or actually presenting some interesting new facet of the succession wars that hasn't been touched on yet (I'm not disliking the 1st Succession War PDF I've been reading), if it gets the oldbeards buying, I don't have much of an issue with it.

Ideally, I want to see a mixture of content from retro-tech and modern BT. Up until now the oldbeard market has been mostly untapped. I'd like to hold out and see if the grogs will actually fork over some dough when it's the final destination 3025 stuff they've always said would be the only thing they'd pay for.

If not? Well, there are still a couple of things from 3025 I'd like to see, but getting some sort of Dark Age hotspots series of books would be good, too. Robutts look cool, but outside of Era Report 3145 I haven't been following along with the Dark Age enough to be that attached.

>>49981024
Yeah, that's fine. Really all the lore needs is a spring cleaning to streamline and a re-flavoring to make it more era-neutral regarding the real world, and more sensical in general. I don't condone doing anything like removing the Outworlds Alliance or something, but re-writing events to make them less goofy and more realistic is a good start.

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>>49980977
2439 is the only year Battletech is good
it goes to shit in 2440 and never gets better.

>>49981056
Skobel plz

>>49981056
Dammit Mackiefags your pet 'Mech works fine in every era. Just put new weapons on it. I'm even willing to give you a few factories in the TC and OA if you want them but you have to take a shower and come hang with us at the community table. And try not to grumble so loud we can't talk about not-Amaris Coup/Reunification War things.

>>49981045
My problem is "realistic" usually just means reskinning to goofy modern instead of goofy retro.

By all means, change some of the behavior and stuff as far as people acting stupid, but the visual absurdity should be kept and even cranked up. I want to see people and machines that look like they're from different places across 2500 lightyears of space and cultures that developed independently for the better part of a thousand years.

Honestly, you'll never stop writers from inserting their issues of the day into things though, especially when it comes to war.

>>49981106
All right, I'll start washing my beard.
Give me two weeks.

>>49981112
Fair enough. I'm more than willing to compromise if it gets us something more coherent and less "lolrandumb". I think the aesthetic of the game itself is fine 'Mech-wise though. The designs all look pretty different to me. The will look even moreso after Shimmyseen is in full effect. I don't want things TOO different though; there's a reason most MBTs look the same, and it's because that's the design that works, so people are going to go for what's optimized. You'll naturally get some flair and variance, but ultimately there should be some similar cues there too, to tie everything together.

I think the presentation of the characters and cultures could use some polish too, but mostly just to smooth them out. They can still be ridiculous, just make them equally so.

>>49981112
>>49981045

90%+ of the grog fanbase are Suns partisans.

Anything that decreases the retardation of the other factions will be counter-productive if your goal is to court them.

>>49965128
>Macross Plus movie was seriously awesome.
Watch the full (miniseries) version. Far superior.

>>49981105
>>49981165
>>49981189
m8 you fuckin drunk or what

>>49981219

I'd select the posts and then it wouldn't point back to them.

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>>49981210
Truth. Fun Fact: Bryan Cranston voiced Isamu in the english version.

> Isamu: And what about the two times I bought you lunch back at high school?

>Guld: I bought you lunch 13 times!

>Isamu: Don't hit me with numbers!

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>>49965094
>Armored Trooper Votoms
>and
>Armor Hunter Mellowlink

>>49980618
>I know, right? They hid it in Total Chaos and I only caught it because it gets a passing mention in the past tense in Final Reckoning.

What even happened?

>>49964748
As someone said it here
>>>/m/14873891

>>49981694
You know the secret hidden base world one jump from Terra where Comstar used to keep their warship fleet stationed? They lost it sometime after the Blakists took Terra. Remember what happened at Columbus back in 3068? Kind of like that. So the Blakists made it their secret staging area since before the Jihad even started.

This is where it gets fuzzy since I don't have Total Chaos. Sometime in 3078, either right before or after they take Terra, Victor decides to hit that base and wipe out the nest of vipers since it's an obvious regrouping point for the Blakists. He gives Stone the keys to the remnants of three of the Comstar armies and tells him to take care of business. It goes about as well as Case White. The Blakists steamroll the Fochts. All the units stationed there survive and escape. And the whole Coalition has to come back in and conquer the place later, though I think they just faced automated stuff at that time.

Apparently it was also used by the NuStar Word in the Dark Age, but I haven't gotten that far in the novels yet.

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>>49981858
>NuStar Word in the Dark Age
When I opened TRO 3145 and saw what looked like a new set of celestials, I was intrigued.
I read in the fluff that they were made by Comstar.
"But they're dead now HA!"
>MFW I got smoke jag'd before even knowing it could have been an option.

>>49981889
It's really weird when you consider Levin was begging for their help, and actually got it back during the Senate Rebellion. I guess a lot can change in ten years.

>>49981914

It still baffles me. Why bring them back just to kill them? If you were going to revive a dead faction why not do it with the Com Gard rather than the Smoke Jaguars?

>>49981936
They were revived all the way back in Sword of Sedition. Levin called in forces from Comstar Australia under the table. And they got development after that. So they were a plot thread hanging since 2005. It just sucks that they decided to tie it off first thing when CGL did Dark Age.

My guess is they were tired of writing six years of Blakists and wanted to nip any more Comstar shenigans in the bud.

I think it fucking sucks but I bet that was their reasoning. Well, that and all the folding Comstar forces into the Republic and everything back in the 3080's seems like they're trying to make the RotS the new Comstar equivalent instead of the crappy Terran Hegemony replacement it was originally.

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>>49978917
>Dragons
>Quickdraws
>Chargers
wow

I like mech

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Would you fight for the true good guys?

>>49974737
what did the Magestrix mean by this?

>>49984296

But I already fight for the Taurian Concordat, and there can't be more than one "good guy" faction in a setting.

>>49984313
>the Bulls
>good guys
*tips Apotheosis*

>>49984324

They're objectively less evil than any of the Successor States by definition, since they didn't have a hand in shattering the Star League into 300 years of war. They're less evil than the Clans because they don't into eugenics, and they're less evil than the other Periphery states because they don't believe in slavery (moC and Marians) or pacifism (OA prior to Ravens; post-Ravens they're just another Clan). They're less evil than Comstar and WOB for really obvious reasons, they're less evil than the Star League because they were minding their own business when the SL invaded THEM, and they're less evil than the ROTS because the ROTS is just the Star League all over again.

So yes, Taurians are factually the most "good guys" in the setting. Just leave them alone and let them enjoy their freedoms out where it doesn't affect you, and they'll be happy. It's only in defense of their people and freedom that they are required to sometimes take extreme actions, and only then just as far as they need to to ensure the security of their state, and there's nothing wrong with that.

>>49984554
>Being a pacifist is evil
I knew it!

>>49984324
any state that fields the Toro can't be evil

>>49984324
>Apotheosis
>wrong
Laughingsharks.hpg

>>49984554

The Medron is strong in you, young one.

>>49984598

Explains Randall, though.

>>49985154

I'm impressed you can't come up with a counterargument besides an ad hominum. Means I'm right and you just don't like it.

>>49981040
The thing is, the oldsters don't really buy. More than a few on the OF have said that they have no interest for new product of any stripes, and just go there to fight the same faction wars over and over again. Sure just mindlessly grinding forward isn't the answer, but once you fill in every hole of plot and canon, the players' role is going to be awfully small.

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Today, I discovered a C-List YouTuber likes our game the most out of all the giant robot fightan game

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escapist-extras/7719-ScrewAttacks-Best-EVER-Giant-Robot-Game

>Post yfw alienhead shitkid turned out to be /ourguy/

>>49985380

No, it means you're factually wrong on every count except one, and being a blatant factionfag while you're at it.

The Taurians were invaded the first time because they started a war with the Suns. The second time they were invaded it was because they were being Amaris' bitch boys and it allowed him to get his hooks into Richard Cameron and stage his coup.

If you want to talk about culpability for the fall of the Star League the Taurians are literally second only to Amaris himself.

The third time they got invaded? Again, starting shit with the Suns, this time in the FCCW, with no actual provacation because the causus belli was fabricated.

The only defensible argument you made is that they weren't as bad as the WoB, but that comes down to an issue of scale rather than a lack of trying.

Oh look, the anti-taurianfag is playing the pretend to be medron so he can post his prepared spergouts game again

>>49980282
So how many pages are we expecting this shit to be? And how many was the BMR?

>>49985762

>Oh look, the taurian shitposter is mad at being BTFOd so he's claiming everyone is samefagging game again

>>49985822

BMR was about 160 pages.

Depending on how much CGL bloat they want to put in with overly verbose explanations about every. goddamn. thing. and their fetish for mini diorama pics, they might be able to get all the rules into it for 'Mechs at the 160-200 range.

I would be completely unsurprised if it was 300+ though given how CGL puts things out.

>>49985762

Wait, I'm confused now. Someone hates a faction, so they pretend to be a member of the faction and post negative stuff about that faction so people will think that that faction is good because they know that it's actually somebody who hates that faction and if somebody hates that faction enough the faction must be worthwhile, otherwise they wouldn't be posting in favor of that faction when they really hate it?

So, double reverse, reverse, psychology?

Isn't the simpler explanation just that there are retards who support basically every faction, and this guy happens to be one of them? Something about "never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence?"

>>49985907

the simpler explanation is that it's angry shitposting, ignore it, and go about whatever you were gonna do anyways

>>49985907
Either that, or revolver ocelot shitposts here in his spare time

>>49986074

Excellent point my friend! Gift of the silver tongue. They say it's the mark of a good officer... and of a liar! Americans are too in love with the sound of their own voice to speak the truth!

>>49985822
It was too much fluff and talking up TW, not substance. It sounds like they may be cutting down text for once though.

>>49984296
The Terran Hegemony?

Though I will admit the RWR is the closest faction in spirit and feel to the TH.

I used to like the Concordat but honestly it's a hard faction to like nowadays. Still the best of the current major periphery factions, but that's not saying much these days.

Anyone else here a huge TO&Efag?

>>49987118
>like the Concordat

Well Medron'd, friendo.

>>49987250
Who?

>>49974437
what's all the rumble about the MoC anyway? Since when did they become a SJW faction? I have heard of them in the BT-novels and I only did read the first 2 DA-novels. Is this some newer stuff I did miss?

>>49987118

That's the joy of liking the TC. The suffering.

>>49978144
oh my god, suddenly I'm very glad that I have only read the novels.

>>49979449
>it would be about like wiping out the Caballeros on accident
I would be okay with that. The Caballero arc was horribly written. Fuck Victor Milan.
>muh Blooddrinker

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>>49985488

>>49987511
All the feminist crap in HB:MPS.

>>49987511
>Since when did they become a SJW faction?

The MoC is run by women. Therefore, they are the SJW faction by definition. Because they are an increasingly successful faction (largely because they made themselves indispensible to a Successor State) in an era where most factions get the shit knocked out of them, most people conflate the two above points. Instead of seeing this as two separate points:

>the MoC is run by women
>the MoC got a huge boost in production because they aligned themselves with the CapCon

...people see the situation as the following:

>the MoC got a huge boost in production because they are run by women

That reads as pandering to the SJW crowd, and so sets off the autists.

Did the MoC actually <deserve> to get uplifted by the Capellans? Yes and no. Yes, because if they didn't, there wouldn't be any point to having them tied to the Capellans in the first place. No, because nobody actually <deserves> anything. All the actual decisions made by "powers" and "characters" are just authorial fiat anyway. Patron author syndrome is hardly unique to Battletech, and even less hardly unique to the MoC; Loren Coleman bought a controlling interest in Fanpro EXPLICITLY so he could save his favorite faction: the Cappies. The only reason for the MoC to attract as much shit for something that is endemic across the Battletech franchise is because people don't like the fact that the MoC has women in charge and they're moderately more sex-positive than their detractors are comfortable with.

Looked at objectively, the MoC has no more and no less shining points or warts than any other Periphery faction or great House. The points are just more different than most. That's all.

>>49987720
Not often have I seen a poster here so utterly misread a faction and its detractors so badly.

>>49987815
Don't take it seriously, it looks like one of our resident MoCfags setting some lazy bait.

The strawmen are their usual calling cards.

Can someone post a link of a working Invader Clans pdf? I want to read about the Nova Cats and the pdf I have has issues with the CNC pages.

Did RS 3145 Unabridged (not NTNU) ever get uploaded?

>>49987815

Counter it point by point then.

>>49987815

At least that's an argument that hangs together and goes with >>49987695. And I certainly don't see a problem with

>MoC has no more and no less shining points or warts than any other Periphery faction or great House

So where's your wall of text explaining it differently? 1-liners don't mean anything, so make your points and back them up.

>>49987720

>Loren Coleman bought

Bitch please. This is how we know you're shitposting.

Coleman doesn't buy things. He steals them.

>>49988182

Be fair. Coleman and Bills bought the license 5-6 years before the Porch Incident. He had to work his way up to grand theft.

>>49985263
Wut

>>49988234

Randall's a super-devout mormon. His religion made him a pacifist and a gigantic whore for SJW causes.

IIRC he just made his kid go to Syria a couple months ago as part of his coming-of-age mission (the equivalent to a bar mitzvah) to convert people over there to Mormonism.

>>49987246
Comrade.

>>49988018
It doesn't make any points, only fallacies.

>>49988277
>His religion made him a pacifist and a gigantic whore for SJW causes.

Weird, I know a decent number of Mormons for someone who doesn't live in Utah and they're all conservative and keep 47 guns plus ammo in the basement.

>IIRC he just made his kid go to Syria a couple months ago as part of his coming-of-age mission to convert people over there to Mormonism.

Afaik the church sends people out semi-randomly, the parents don't choose.

>>49988277
>Mormon SJW
Are you one of those guys who just uses "SJW" to mean "anything I don't like"? Because the idea of radical feminist Mormons is making me laugh my ass off.

>>49988129
Walls of text don't mean anything either. Why waste the time when laughing and shaking my head suffices?

>>49987246
I've got an SLDF Division statted down to the infantry platoons. As well as a few SLN fleets. Do those count?

>>49987246
Absolutely, maybe we can discuss it next thread when the shit cools off

>>49988341

What fallacies?

>The MoC is run by women
Fact
> they are an increasingly successful faction
Fact
>they made themselves indispensible to a Successor State
Fact
> MoC actually <deserve> to get uplifted by the Capellans? Yes and no.
Supposition, but both supporting statements make logical sense
>Patron author syndrome is hardly unique to Battletech,
Fact
>Loren Coleman bought a controlling interest in Fanpro EXPLICITLY so he could save his favorite faction: the Cappies
Fact
>people don't like the fact that the MoC has women in charge and they're moderately more sex-positive
Conclusion, based on previous points.

Whar fallacies, whar?

>>49988417

I'm not about to let that happen.

>>49988373

Follow Randall's FB posts; he cites his religion as the reason for both pacifism and support for radical feminism.

>>49988392
They do. And I thought I was excessive with my AU clan touman done down to the last light star.

>>49988422

It's not "people," anon. it's the Taurian shitposter(s) who are mad their faction got buttfucked while the Canopians prospered right next door.

So they throw out the usual /pol/-tier bait and see who bites, furthering their persecution complex if anyone calls them on it.

What mechs in the introbox would fit with a merc unit with SLDF roots?

Like if I were to make a lance like in NEA's pdf?

>>49988422
>>49988585
>samefagging
>more fallacies
>Taurian naming
>invoking /pol/ for some reason
2/10, you're getting lazy

>>49988716

>samefagcomic.jpeg

Two different people.

>>49988770
*rolls eyes* yeah ok

>>49988847

OK, how would you like me to prove i's not samefagging?

>>49988855
These days you can't really prove it here. If you post some picture someone will just say "mspaint" and laugh.

The trick is to not jump into autistic debates if you don't intend to be treated as a troll by one or both sides.

>>49988879

Which one's aren't autistic, though?

>>49988855

The irony is that literally every time someone who writes like this >>49984554 posts, MR. I can't into spelling and grammar here >>49988847 starts spamming with +1s and "we Taurians good boys, dindu nuffins and anyone who says otherwise is the REAL shitposter" right away.

>>49988913
I hate to say it but the TC and MoC attract the lion's share these days. Almost as bad as the Free Worlds/Lyran arguments a couple years ago.

>>49988930
>I can't into spelling and grammar
What did he mean by this?

>>49988913

Over the last 4-5 years, the list of factions which spawn this sort of autistim bascially include:

FWL, Lyrans, Cappies, Davion, MOC, TC, any Clan, Comstar, WOB, ROTS, any merc company which appears in a novel.

Basically, if your goal is to avoid autistic debates, you can't talk about any factions or fluff. That's not meant as a reduction to the absurd; you really can't talk about any factions or fluff without at least some risk of it happening. And there's no way to stop it or mitigate it.

>>49988938
It's probably because each has attracted 1-3 dedicated hateposters (supposition, based on the fairly consistent hours of hateposting), and each has enough fans to trigger the hateposters on a regular basis