Pathfinder General /pfg/

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>>49935158
I haven't run the game yet, but I want to include the not!Allagan Empire from FFXIV.

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>>49935158
>When have you included an ancient, advanced civilization in your game? What was it like?

They're an undead nation of inward-focused ascetics who spend their immortality contemplating the nature of god and philosophy.

>>49935248
Oh, so they couldn't get a job after college and turned to undead to cut down on the food/heating/cooling bills?

>>49935158
>When have you included an ancient, advanced civilization in your game? What was it like?
They're all dead. Decided to overthrow the gods, then were reminded exactly why they used to call them 'gods'.
One apocalypse later and the new world was sort of just put on top of the old one, and they started again. If you dig down deep enough, you can start finding the ruins of the previous civilization. Their tech is worth a fortune to the right buyers, but people don't like digging it up less they attract the ire of the gods.

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>>49935268

No! They're wise philosophers whose erudite mannerisms belie their simple existence!

I-It's just very cold up in the north, and living in dank glorified basements means s-shipping in food or drink is difficult, see? They like being undead!

Can the marriage battle from the last thread please continue? It was cute.

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>>49935341

>Implying it was even a battle

That tramp got put in her place! Ain't nobody stealing what's mine!

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>>49935341
I don't know if my kokoro can take any more fighting

>>49935341
I think we should talk about something interesting instead.

>>49935384
PoW Marriage Discipline when?

>>49935158
I don't get this /pfg/ meme, why are you using the Pillar Men for Azlanti?

>>49935384
How about we talk about you?

>>49935401
Azlanti are an old dead race that's more powerful than the current inhabitants.

>>49935401
>why are you using the Pillar Men for Azlanti?

Have you *seen* what the Azlanti look like?

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>>49935403

Yes, I would love to talk about >>49935384, they seem so interesting!

Tell us about what characters you're playing, how did your sessions go this weekend?

>>49935396
Discipline skill: Heal?

What would the weapon groups be

>>49935158
fuck off jojo spammer.
You're almost as bad as the frogposters.

I'll take dorkposting over shitposting any day of the week honestly

On topic, what are some Stealth essentials? Aside from a +5 competence item. Smoke bombs, caltrops, that kinda stuff. I'm going to be playing a ninja soon and I want a bunch of tricks to put up my sleeves.
Normally I stick with frontline fighters so this tricky sneakguy is definitely outside my zone of expertise.

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>>49935458
>What would the weapon groups be

Natural, Close, Blade (Light), Thrown and Spears.

Thoughts on this feat for DSP's Akashic system please?

Essence of Arms (Akashic, Combat)
Your skill with akashic weaponry lets you create multiple to suit your needs.
Prerequisites: Con 13, ability to shape a veil that grants a manufactured weapon (such as Crimson Totem, Hand Cannons, or Loyal Paladin's Spear of Light)
Benefit: You can invest essence into this feat. You create extra copies of a weapon granted to you by a qualifying veil equal to the invested essence.
You gain 1 point of essence.
Special: If your granted weapon lets you use your veilweaver level in place of your base attack bonus, you may qualify for feats in the same way. Feats acquired using veilweaving level instead of base attack bonus do not function for other weapons until your actual base attack bonus would be high enough to qualify for them.

Idea behind this was to allow someone to dual wield with these unique weapons. Crimson Totem would require extra investment since it's a greatclub, and Hand Cannons a third hand to be able to use two at a time, while Loyal Paladin's Spear of Light works out of the box (but is also the weakest of the three). Using essence investment lets it work for yet higher amounts of arms while not being OP with getting half a dozen free magical weapons. My only worry is that maybe it does too much for 1 feat due to the veilweaver level=BAB clause and should be split into two, but a lot of Pathfinder feats suffer from piece-of-shit-itis.

>>49935484
I think the disc should be based around buffing/protecting a specific ally for maximum cute.

>>49935401
Jojospammer needs to jojo spam.

Just call him a cunt and hope he eventually wakes up to how the series he's obsessed with really isn't as great as he hopelessly wishes it was.

>>49935458
Double weapons, of course.
Also Bows, Close, and Natural

>>49935502

>Implying you can't have multiple husbands or wives

>>49935541
Ahmed pls go and stay go

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>>49935541

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> Multiple books in the pastebin trove refer to a "Inner Sea World Guide"
> The trove doesn't have said guide.

>>49935502
>>49935396
Taintless Matrimony discipline:
>Strikes from this discipline only describe half of a maneuver, for them to activate they must be augmented by a boost that fills in a gap of how they work
(Something like, boosts determine the effect and damage, while strikes determine the attack rolls or ways you can deliver them)
>You cannot use a strike and boost from this discipline in the same round

>However, if you use one and then an ally uses the other, you may immediately as a free action join them in executing the combined strike as a two-person combo

>>49935570
Huh, the other trove was removed from the pastebin.

https://mega.nz/#F!vIJn1Y6Q!MbyyqQK6u0tWWSAimsIjiw!vBhCkRRL

"The Inner Sea World Guide" It's under campaign setting

>>49935571
Holy shit
Drop the marriage meme and start printing it as a real discipline
That's genius

>>49935571
>readied action

>>49935571
While a neat concept it seems like a pain to get it to work, at least there are built in ways to get around teamwork feat requirements. Or there eventually were.

>>49935594
>Drop marriage
Degeneracy.

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>>49935555

>Implying love isn't at it's purest between one woman and her three studs

>You guys want to kill the Blind Idiot
Normally you think the universe-destroying ultimate evil cosmic bad guys plotting and planning for no other purpose than to follow their drive to destroy all life, matter, and existence are unrealistic inventions of fiction. But here you all are.

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>>49935631
>advocating the cock carousel
frog=R*E^8

What's the best class for a Bushi? ZweiSent Warder, Warlord, Brutal Slayer Stalker, or something else?

And is Daisho Expertise worth it with all of that?

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>>49935590
Thanks, anon! There's a lot of new material here.

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>>49935733
It depends on what you want your Bushi to do in the game.

>>49936109
Never seen one. What would be the options?

>>49936109

Senrans are best titty ninja.

Best race for Sohei/Enlightened Paladin?

>first session with a new group, making characters
>first man out to start rolling my stats
>it's an 18 STR
>manage to convince the GM to let me play a Drow
>slav drow spider memes everywhere
>session ends with party forced to flee into the big fat door leading into not!Moria
>this was not how I planned to go back home
Good first session desu

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>>49936141
Stalker (or Vigilante) Bushi = Ninja
Warder Bushi = Samurai bodyguard
Warlord Bushi = Samurai general

>>49935158
ok fucking seriously: why pathfinder general start with pillar man?

>>49936224
Who gives a heck.

>>49936224
Why does it matter? Are you triggered by jojoposters?

What's the best stat spread for a 15PB Marksman (Elf)?

I was thinking 10/16/12/10/14/8, but I feel like Wis should be higher, since the Marksman does get powers and stuff.

>>49936168
Angelkin

>>49936290
Probably something like 13/16/13/8/14/7. You're going to need decent strength if you want to actually deal damage.

Is there any martial class that is useful both in and out of combat?

>>49936290
Your Wisdom defines bonus power points (pretty handy), but isn't mandatory, and you don't need an especially high Wisdom to be able to manifest marksman powers. You should be able to get by with a basic +2 belt at the upper levels. Some class features do scale by it, though, so do whatever.

>>49935733
I've been rocking a ZweiSent Bushi in our group's Jade Regent game, and it's been going pretty well. I do feel like Daisho Expertise and a Dex focus in general is holding me back a bit, but even then, it's so difficult to mess up a ZweiSent that I'm still a functional member of the group, while still keeping my party safe.

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>>49936411
Stalker
Vigilante (Stalker)
Polymath (Alchemist or Investigator)

>>49936516
>Vigilante (Stalker)
WTF are you doing and why are you not writing Stalker(Vigilante) like literally everyone else?

>>49936565
Both the Vigilante (Stalker) and the Stalker (Vigilante) are pretty good at in-and-out-of-combat stuff, to be honest.

>>49936224
You want more kitsune?

>>49935571
Maybe it functions similarly to Sanctified Rings or a Zealot's Collective? A combo discipline could be really cool.

>>49936411
Cleric and druid.

>>49936595
kitsune miku?
>>49936256
calm down son, it's a legit question

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Making a ranger that has a roc and wolf as his companions
gm has a house rule that reversed the abilities of rangers/druids about animal companions
so, Beastmaster Ambush Hunter Ranger
he also gives us a free bonus feat at level 1, and the following are inbuilt in the system Power Attack, Piranha Strike, Martial Power, Deadly Aim, and Combat Expertise. Point blank shot and precise shot are also one feat now
anywho, my idea is a switch hitter, he can shoot with his bow, hit with his two handed weapon, and smash with his lance
feats:
bonus feat: Mounted Combat
human feat: Ride-by Attack
1 Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot(Steady Aim)
3 Quick Draw
5 Boon Companion-bird-roc
7 Spirited Charge
9 Boon Companion-hound(wolf)
Ranger stuff
1 Ambush Tactics (Ex), track, wild empathy
2 Combat style feat: Rapid Shot
3 Endurance, 1st favored terrain
4 Hunter's bond
5
6 Improved Empathic Link (Su)
7 Woodland stride
8 Pack Savagery (Ex), Swift tracker, 2nd favored terrain
9 Evasion
10 combat style feat: Shot on the Run

I'm just not sure on what disciplines to use, and whether this idea is stupid.
with human and 25 point buy, was going with
18,14,14,13,14,10 for stats at level 8

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>>49935341
Marry the poor Elven Witch healer that's approaching middle age from the last thread: >>49928667

Save her from the bullying, loneliness, and depression. You don't have to worry about her family's approval, because they all died 1,600 years ago.

Why is Stalker not a full BAB class?
It's literally the most "hit dude with weapon" class out of all the PoW classes. It's features are like 90% about hitting dudes or not getting hit by dudes. And yet it's less accurate and gets less iterative attacks than tin-can-man Warder, who spends most fights getting hit in the face intentionally and poking people with a reach weapon to piss them off.
I don't understand the decision here.

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>>49935420
>Tell us about what characters you're playing

My half-elf oracle for RotRL is the uncle of the half-elf alchemist I'm playing in Shattered Star. In terms of age, the oracle is only two years older than the alchemist, because "goddamn elves". This has led my GM on an investigative spiral into family history for the elven side of the family, as well as plenty of integration of backstory into the world. All because of a few throwaway lines I tossed in because I didn't realize how close together some of the APs were, time-wise.

>mfw realizing every single character I've made is somehow related to the same family of elves

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>>49936776
>kitsune miku
I have mikos.

>>49936595
Yes, actually. But dorkposting is also fine.

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>>49936595

SOMEBODY SAY KITSUNE?

BECAUSE I WILL GIVE THE FOXES A BIG FRIGHTEN.

You guys reckon I could pull off a general thief character concept as a Dervish Defender Warder?

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>>49936797
>Save her from the bullying, loneliness, and depression

I want to give her a reason to smile.

>>49937281

You'd have better luck with a Steelfist Commando.

>>49937281
With enough points in acrobatics and sleight of hand anyone could be a thief.

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>>49937281

Sure. Not every thief has rogue levels.

>>49937259

Kindly refrain.

/pfg/, why is it that you say Primal Fury is overtuned? It seems to be in line with most of the other damage heavy disciplines until the "attack with every weapon wielded" shenanigans and the 2x str stance (but that's at 15th so it rarely shows up in games). Am I blind or is it not actually a thing?

>>49937379

People don't like Primal Fury for the same reason DMs don't like barbarians; muh damage output, muh destroyed encounter.

>>49937379
Flat damage bonuses, pounce around Maneuver Level 2-3, and a stance which makes your weapons like 2 size categories larger.

>>49937398
>>49937413
So is it the maneuvers that take a minus to attack and get flat bonus + the flat bonus on a charge?

>>49937426
Basically. There are more reasons than that, but those are just the reasons that come to mind first for me when asked.

>>49937458
It does seem like a lot of it's power comes at around 7th level when you can pick up the 4th level maneuvers. Before that it seems kinda meh

Why is Extended Defense so fucking cool and why doesn't any other class get anything near as awesome?

>>49937281
Would work pretty decently, although admittedly they'd be at a bit of a loss for the traditional "thieving" skills like Disable Device and the like.

>>49937560
Adamantine dagger gives you +500 to lockpicking checks
Should work out fine

Due to my deteriorating health I am will be unable to run my game (please take it out of the OP next time) and will have to push back my playtest to once every two weeks for the foreseeable future. I apologize to everyone who submitted characters.

What are the Crystal Iouns mentioned in the Psychic Armoury entry in Psionics Augmented:Soulknives? I'm assuming they're like a crystal hilt for a panoply, but I'd like to see the specifics.

Is there any way to get Wisdom to Perform from a trait/feat/race?

>>49937364

Doggo > Fox

>>49937942
I don't believe so. If you've got POW, there's a trait that let's you use Dec for perform (dance).

>>49937942
Yes, the Spellburst Savant's Stir Heart and Mind alternate class feature allows you to use Wisdom for Spellcraft, and substitute Spellcraft checks for three types of Perform checks.

>>49935268
AHAHAHA--I'm stealing this idea!

>>49937640

Hope you get better, DHB! We need more of your brand of homebrew around here!

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>>49936781
no one have advice?

>>49937942
There's an inquisition that gives WIS to Perform (Oratory).
That's pretty much the only way you've got aside from memes.
Memes like taking the Agile Dancer trait (POW) to make Perform (Dance) run off Dex and then taking Wisdom In The Flesh to make it run off Wis instead.

>>49937970
The issue is that I'm making a Bushi Brutal Slayer, so I don't have great dex or cha. There's the trait that lets me use wis for a dex skill, but I wanted the perform (dance) for the Flowing Creek Mithral Current counter.

Any suggestions for a level 1 or 2 counter for a STR/WIS focused initiator?

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>>49937958

Dogs are wonderful, no denying.

But I also like foxes.

>>49938073
The best level 1 counter in the game is Flowing Creek.
You can do the meme I mentioned here >>49938050 but your GM may not allow it.
If not, the next best counter is Fear the Reaper (EG). Powerful as fuck (60 foot range) and you can get STR to intimidate with that one feat.
After that I suggest Sanguine Barrier (ST) since it not only runs off Sense Motive but you get a +2 as well.

>>49938138
Would Flowing Creek be worth it even with just ranks + class skill or would Calm the Storm (MC 2) be better?

Speaking of counters, how can I make Iron Tortoise ones more reliable?
Full BAB + shield AC is shit compared to counters that run off skills. I love the idea of actually defending with a shield though... Can I boost my Shield AC really high somehow?

>>49938205
use a tower shield
best way to iron tortoise is str based twf
stupendous strength and prodigious twf

>>49938204
As a Brutal Slayer you'll have a higher chance of success with Calm the Storm. The added effect is quite potent too, much more than a free 5 foot step. MC is full of free movement so you shouldn't miss Flowing Creek too much.
That said, Perform (Dance) comes up a lot in later maneuvers. Consider purchasing items for it. There's some shoes or some shit that are perfect for you, but I dont really remember them. Go dig around in the Archives for "dance" and you'll find 'em.

>>49938087

For what it's worth, I agree with you.

Canids are just cute in general, especially Fennecs!

What do you do when you run out of feats to pick? playing in a core only game and I'm pretty much out of feats to take.

>>49938225
Well, it's 2 higher than a normal shield, and the flavor is lovely, but it's still not much better. I'm meant to be the tough guardian, but my dinky bard is much more adept at defending himself than I am since that fucker has a huge Perform (Dance). Feels wrong rolling +9 at level 5 when he's rolling +17 or so.

>>49938138
>You can do the meme
What does that word even mean now? How diassociated from its original meaning can it become? Wouldn't it be better to just say "shenanigan" or something?

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>>49935285
That's just retarded.

You don't overthrow gods unless you're *ready* for it (aka pretty much on their level or packing the kind of tech that will turn every last one of those gods, realms they're in and all into rather long lasting batteries to power your capital vessels no matter how much they struggle).

It's like any other major rebellion: if you try to pull the coup while its in it's infancy, it's getting nipped in the bud before it ever became a fucking threat.

BUT with gods there IS one thing you can do...

It'll cost you most of your clerics and divine healers... but you COULD just stop worshiping entirely. That will decrease their influence and even slowly depower them if the population giving up is high enough. You'll need to be able to counter the occasional miracle, and be ready to start imploding planes if the assholes get desperate enough to try and build a wall, but it's way better than just trying to fucking kill them while the difference between you is still at the "gods vs men" level.

>>49938350
there is shield focus, for a +1

>>49938378
Memebuild is a proper term in my eyes.
A build that's running the RAW/RAI gamut or abusing a loophole or just blatant and gross powergaming.
In that context, the use of "meme" there was mostly alright.

>>49938379
>That will decrease their influence and even slowly depower them if the population giving up is high enough.
Not a thing outside Forgotten Realms, and even then only because Ao said so.

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>>49938378
Meme is used in the way that it's an idea that is spread around a community, usually with the added meaning of it being a shallow, not well thought out idea.

>>49935514
I think jojospammer might be someone in the two roll20 games I'm in...

>>49938395
>>49938350
defensive focus for shield ac to touch
martial power gives a bonus when you use a shield
twf to use it with another weapon
improved shield base, cos having it to ac when attacking with it is nice
shield slam, free bullrushes
shield master for no twf penelties using a shield

>>49938350
>>49938466
>>49938395
Iron Tortoise Style [Combat, Style]
You guard yourself and allies with your trusty shield at your side
Prerequisites: Proficiency with shields, 1 more Iron Tortoise stances, Bluff 3 ranks
Benefit: You deal damage with shield bash attacks as though you were one size larger than you actually are. This stacks with other effects that increase size.


Iron Tortoise Shell [Combat]
Your shield protects you from more than just physical assaults
Prerequisites: Iron Tortoise Style, Bluff 7 ranks
Benefit: Whenever you initiate a counter, you gain the evasion special ability until the end of your next turn.


Iron Tortoise Snap [Combat]
Your sword-and-shield style is brutally efficient.
Prerequisites: Iron Tortoise Style, Iron Tortoise Shell, Bluff 13 ranks
Benefit: You may make an additional attack at your highest attack bonus with a non-shield weapon whenever you hit a creature with a shield bash. This additional attack must be made against the creature struck by your shield bash. You may only make up to two additional attacks per round in this manner.

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>>49936797
How's she feel about retired rangers looking to settle down somewhere quiet after all their adventuring?

>Aura of Excellence (Su)

At 3rd level, an enlightened paladin is immune to any effect that would force him to reroll a die against his will or roll twice and take the lower result
Do such effects even exist?

Multipliers are still additive in Pathfinder right (not sure of how much it differs from 3.5 which I am more familiar with)? If I crit with a x2 weapon while using Rising Zenith Strike I do a net x3 damage, not x4?

While we're on the subject of Iron Tortoise, can you use a Tower Shield with stuff like Iron Shell? Assuming no Stupendous Strength. It says you use a shield bash, but that seems to just be flavor text for it.

>>49938665
Misfortune Hex is the only one to come to mind. So they technically exist, but there's a good chance your paladin will never encounter one even if you play from level 1 to 20.

>>49935519
Automatics and Siege Weapons.
With some maneuvers and stances for Gunner/Loader teams.

Rather than the typical discipline, a discipline that focuses not on "let's get ten people to charge" but on close teamwork; with several maneuvers that give a bonus to you and a different bonus to a close teammate.

>Free Aid Another to your partner with your shots
>This counter affects both you and your parnter
>Your THP shielding layer is refreshed if your partner uses a strike
>Lv 8 Stance: While in this stance your partner may activate a standard-action strike or make a regular attack as a free action once during your full attack or strike actions on your turn; This occurs simultaneously with one of your attacks as decided by yourself. If both you and your partner are maintaining this stance, any boosts affecting either of you instead affect both - so long as they are not identical.

Tell me about your campaign ideas /pfg/!

>>49938739
No, needs to be a shield you can bash with I'm fairly sure
I'd be happy if I was wrong though

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>>49938802
I want to run a gestalt Monk game set in 1970's Kowloon Walled City.

Is there any 3pp class or anything like that that gives Con to AC? Looking to be a big guy for my party.

>>49938961
There's probably something amongst 3.5 material.

>>49938961
Entropic Sage (Hedgewitch archetype) in the Destruction sphere allows you to add your casting ability modifier to AC. Take Fortified Casting to make Constitution your casting ability modifier, and thus add your Constitution modifier to AC.

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So GM wanted me to brew something to replace the Preservationist part of Promethean/Preservationist, due to it not really being fun for anyone involved. After lots of brainstorming and failed ideas RIP mecha golem idea, you would have been rad as fuck I slapped something together using suggestions and ideas tossed at me by the GM, and now I'd like to get a rough draft of what I'm about to throw at my GM skimmed to see just how shit and/or busted it is before I inflict it on my group. It's all rough as fuck and I need to shuffle some stuff around, but it gets the idea across at least.

http://pastebin.com/d6dKrNCR

the TL;DR
>Fuck poison, improve upon Homunculus and make it so we share more than just headspace
>protect homunculus at all costs, that smile gives you power my man
>A unique crossbow and discoveries, all so my lazy ass party won't have to remember I gave them infusions
>also some way to actually hurt the enemy

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Due to the wonders of 'Being kinda bored for the last few days', I bring homebrew.

The Phenomenal Prestidigitator, an illusionist/stage magician variant of the Spellburst Savant.

Feedback is highly appreciated.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15Hl4iSN5el-ohN9paOuf_1TszJK9_srUXZFxj-HMpz8/edit?usp=sharing

Warder seems very good at getting enemies to hit him.
How do you guys' Warders handle the heat they get?
I'm building a level 5 one right now and the highest AC I can get is 23, and that's with the "I can't fucking move" Full Plate + Tower Shield combo. Seems low, and it messes up my mobility something fierce. My previous character, a Monk, had 21 AC at this level, so 23 feels quite awful.
How do I need up my defenses?

I also need advice on what to do about CON. INT is so damn good for a Warder I kind of want to just keep CON at 10 and focus solely on STR and INT. I mean, the d12 hit die already does a lot of work. Is that retarded, or..?
Thanks in advance, guys.

>>49939101
I don't really give a shit about Alchemist so I won't check it but I just wanted to let you know I really enjoy your continued shenanigans

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>>49938524
Not that strongly, unless they can rebuild her hoard.

>>49935158
>>49921850
Feats: rewritten, martial edition.
The garbage feats, redesigned to not be a waste of time.

>>49921927
What does it do and why should I want it? Explain the product to me.

>>49921735
Liches, beholders, illithids.
Aquatic monsters, redone (simple version is like, flying dire sharks)
New stuff i haven't faced before.
I strongly recommend Green Ronin's advanced bestiary. A full bestiary of awesome monster templates for Pathfinder. I use it all the time.

>>49938927
A game run in that environment would be pretty cool.

Where are all the DSP guys?
Was there a second shitstorm while I was gone?

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>mfw the adorable Nymph actually reciprocates my pledge of undying loyalty to her

I got my first fae patron, guys! I'm so excited!

>>49939220
Don't focus on AC to the point where you're losing out elsewhere; you will get murdered by touch attacks, vs-saves, and so on and so forth.

Warders survive by good use of counters and *MURDERING WHAT COMES AT THEM* like anything else in this game does best.

Take the hawkguard for example; much of the hawkguard's "defenses" are things like being able to fire without provoking. The Zweihander Sentinel gets shield bonuses with his two-hander.

Their special abilities are most of what you need/want in terms of protecting the party; people aren't retarded MMO monsters and they WILL geek the mage if they get a chance. Your protective auras, infinite-counter-round ability and the such are your 'tanker' abilities; for everything else, DEAD THINGS DON'T HURT YOU OR YOUR FRIENDS.

Defensive Expertise is best shield feat (read it, and if you still can't figure out why it's good stop playing), tower shields are generally a trap, and don't COMPLETELY neglect your dex; better 3 stats at 12 than one at 19 instead of 18 (this is an example I don't know your exact spread). Mithral full plate will let you have a few points of it, and you want that to help against touch and whatnot anyways.

At level 5, you could afford a +1 armor AND heavy shield, and +1 AC from one of many magical items as well, along with a +1 weapon. Just the armor and shield alone should already put you at 23 before any dexterity or class abilities.

>>49939220
Aren't you counted in the allies affected by Aegis?

>>49939605

...You didn't literally use the word "undying", did you?

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>>49939688
Oh this'll be fun.


>The captchas always say calle

>>49939579
I'm playing in a similar setting to kowloon, only with zombies.

It's not fun.

>>49939730
It's fun for the zombies

>>49939629
No

>>49939419
Well, a ranger can probably do that pretty well.

>>49939606
I see. Thanks for the in-depth response, anon.

>it's another episode of "only one player took note of the big plot point that the enemy told them before the party edgelord cut his head off"
oh boy

>>49939744
Ally: Do you count as your own ally?

You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, "your allies" almost always means the same as "you and your allies."
posted October 2010 | back to top

>>49939837
No it specifically says you don't get it from yourself

>City is overrun by zombies
>Guards to the Druid: I can let you enter with that bear, sir

>>49939205
Hey, someone pitched it to me (I'm playing SS in one game) and I really liked it. Nice flavor and I will probably switch to it. Will say more after I actually get to try it.

>>49938333
What feats do you have and what kind of character are you playing?

>3,5 session
>i'm playing a druid and i'm worried i'll be too powerful
>Friend is playing tome samurai and is new to the game
>DM okayed it without looking at it too deeply

>3rd level
>he attacks for +10, and does 1d10+8 damage.
>has an ability called hordebreaker
>gives him a free cleave attack whenever he drops a foe
>has an ability called Kiai!
>lets him make any attack a confirmed critical after the roll, and he can do it 3 times a day
>he doesn't realize how much damage 2d10+8 is.

i don't have to worry about being overpowered at least.

>>49939837
The Aegis ability of the Warder explicitly discounts you as an "ally" for its effect, although another Warder with Aegis can grant you their bonus.

>>49939935
Uh.
The static bonus is also multiplied on crits, anon.

x2 would make that 2d10+16 not +8.

>>49939916
Fighter/Monk
Stunning fist
Imp grapple
Imp trip
Dodge
Mobility
Spring attack
Power attack
Combat reflexes
Weapon focus (unarmed)
And a couple others I don't remember now

I guess I should either start picking extra ki or those shitty stuff +2 to two skills, or skill focus

>>49938742
Ill omen also does it. There are a lot of spells that do. There is a bard ability that forces a reroll I think.

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Alright, new set of gun rules, how does these look

>>49939935
Then you have a bear, and the bears laughs at him
At 5th level you turn into a bear and you laugh at him
At 6th level you pick nature spell and you and your bear both fly and fire beams through your eyes

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>>49939476
Yeah, okay.

Legendary Vigilantes came out to solve a lot of problems I had with the class, most of which were it's PAINFULLY lackluster archetypes (I actually adore the base class).

A lot of the product is adding archetypes that really help flesh out certain ideas, like Dynamic Striker for unarmed combat, Exposed Vigilante for not wanting a second identity, Noble Soul for not wanting a lawful good paladin, and Masked Grappler because wrestling.

The new vigilante talents focus both on making vital strike more valuable (step one of this, step two is the upcoming Mercurial Duelist), as well as making spring attack and whirlwind attack more viable without sinking all your feats into them.

The feats offer new ways to get vigilante talents (which are limited since talents are so great), including a route for non vigilantes to pick up one, and allowing you and another player to share your identities, allowing for some cool "Hi, Bruce Wayne, have you met my friend Batman?" moments.

And Scion of the City is a great prestige class for players who are always in the same city, as it helps dial them into the setting more, give them unique abilities while in it, and eventually be able to influence it on a macro scale.

Overall, this was a silly fun book to write because I love this class, and the options really help open up new heroic archetypes as well as give tools to help with other ideas.

Legendary Villains: Vigilantes should be coming out soon, which I referred to as the 'ranged' edition of this series. But hey, I can talk about that later.

>>49939935
At 3rd level any barb is dealing 2d6+12 without even using rage powers.

>>49939982
Yeah i realized that after i posted it.

It literally went:
>"Nigga, you just did 38 damage, these guys can do like four. Do you not realize how crazy that is?"
>"You okayed it! you said it was thematic!"

He's going to get us all killed, lol. The GM threw a fifth level vampire at us and he two-shotted it. I wish i could have taken the 3rd level feat that gives me the bard spell list, fuck i need something like dimension door with this guy around.

>>49939935
>He thinks that's OP
Oh summer child
At 3rd level your bear should be attacking three times with +7 dealing 2d6+1d4+12. And there's also YOU, because you're two creatures, and you can even summon more.

>tfw too sick to run game regularly
>tfw still want to play in a game regularly
Man I know I'm being selfish but I just really want to play. I haven't in months.

>>49940091
me too dad

>>49940064
>Vampire has DR 10
>Fast healing 5
>He two shotted it
>He also turns into fog and says "lol, c ya"
>And can dominate the shit out of him
Repeat with me BULL.SHIT.

>>49940116
>teleports behind you
>stabs you in the back with a katana
Pssh... Nothin... Personal... Kid...

>>49940045

But they don't get unlimited free cleaves whenever he drops a foe, nor can they pick when they get a confirmed crit. I'm not mad, but it is nuts. A literal tier 1 martial homebrew class.

>>49940017
Pretty sure the bear companion i can get at 4th only does like +6 1d4+4. Bear shape won't be much better i think. If i had gone abberation wild shape, maybe. Correct me if i'm wrong, i haven't looked too far ahead as i've already enough paperwork to do at 3rd.

At least i still have bullshit utility spells like Impeding Stones and Kelpstrand, though i managed to roll a 1 last night and kelp'd the samurai, who broke out of a DC21 grapple check first try.

How come armour and shields are so fucking bad?
DEX classes get almost as high as armor classes, but their AC applies to Touch and also they're immune to being flat-footed too. And they take no speed penalties or armor check penalties. Why is this okay? The armor classes even have to pay gold for that shit.

>>49940153
>A literal tier 1 martial
Thats not how tiers work

>>49940153
Try 2 claws +11 melee (1d8+8) and bite +6 melee (2d6+4) on both you and bear.

Srly, this is fucking bait.

>>49940078

This is 3.5. I don't even get the choice of a bear as my Animal Companion until 4th.

>and you can even summon more.

I summoned a Greenbound/Ashbound Black Bear and it missed its full attack, then the samurai finished it off.

>>49940116
Hmm, either my GM was unaware of those things or he was being uncharacteristically lenient. It did turn into a poltergeist when we stabbed it in the chest with a wooden chair leg.

>>49940153
But they don't get unlimited free cleaves whenever he drops a foe
No, they pick the feat and do more damage and have more HPs, and hit better and still are tier4 at best. So tell me, how this awesome samurai who is shit compared to the average barbarian is tier1, you fucking retardo?

Also, how much of a retard do you have to be to don't know shit about druid, literally you should be outdamaging him HARD by 1st level. 1d10+8 is shit damage compared with you can pull on a fucking monday.

>>49940163
Armor exists to punish you for not having better armor spells. It is a cost that is carefully balanced so as to do nothing in the long run, lest spells not be the vastly superior option in exchange for only being able to be cast once a day (per slot, often for at least half the day per casting).

>>49940231
It's bait, don't reply.

>>49940191
>Try 2 claws +11 melee (1d8+8) and bite +6 melee (2d6+4) on both you and bear.

in 3.5? I'm confused, Black Bear's entry says 2 claws +6 1d4+4 and bite +1 1d6+2.

I didn't take natural bond, so if i do take a bear as my companion (we're mostly in a city so it might be more trouble than its worth, compared to my current Riding Dog), i am pretty sure it won't be getting any HD or ability bonuses for a few levels, but i am new to druid.

>>49940153
You have NO idea what the tiers mean do you...

FUCKTONS of characters can kill shit fast.
I have a warsoul that can literally wipe out EVERY enemy with about half his level in average CR HP within 200 feet in a single action; or up to his full CR if they're within 200ft and directly in line behind at least one or two more such targets.

That doesn't mean I can create artifacts.
That doesn't mean I can create new demiplanes.
That doesn't mean I know where our quest leads
That doesn't mean I can take over a king's mind
That doesn't mean I can protect the party from the the negative plane or curses or any other number of things.

I just do a lot of damage.

That's ALL.

>>49940304
You can also craft items, use technology that the enemy doesn't know how to use, and can fly. At least, you can if you're who I think you are.

>>49940231
>But they don't get unlimited free cleaves whenever he drops a foe

https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Samurai,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)

>Horde Breaker [Combat]
You kill really large numbers of people.
Benefits: This is a combat feat that scales with your Base Attack Bonus.

>+0: You gain a number of extra attacks of opportunity each round equal to your Dexterity Bonus (if positive).
+1: Whenever you drop an opponent with a melee attack, you are entitled to a bonus "cleave" attack against another opponent you threaten. You may not take a 5' step or otherwise move before taking this bonus attack. This Cleave attack is considered an attack of opportunity.

It is bullshit.

It's not vanilla samurai you autist. Calm the fuck down.

>>49940323
>>49940304

The fuck is with all the impotent rage over tiers?

Is +2 to an ability score worth a feat slot?

>>49940282
>I didn't take natural bond
>Pathfinder Druid feature in 3.5
Oh you, we caught you in a fib

>Play Branded/Hunger Dual Cursed Lunar Oracle
>Be a Hulking Changeling
>Level 5
>4 Natural attacks & Animal Companion
>noble scion of war/prophetic armor/branded/steadfast personality
>use charisma for initiative & all saves & AC (neglect everything else except str)
>take power attack
>take trait for extra on crits
>all attacks are primary natural attacks

Am I a monster for doing this?

>>49940350
???

Complete Adventurer is a Pathfinder book now? Why the fuck are you people so aggro?

>>49940325
>You may not take a 5' step or otherwise move before taking this bonus attack
So he at best can kill 8 weak ass dudes? and that's good?

How would you go about keeping Power Word Kill as an option for a Lich without making a player feel like they had no control over their death?

>>49940323
Uh, I can't craft magic items, and I can't fly but I do have Ghost Step as a move and swift thanks to psicrystal containment.

>>49940342
+2 to an ability score is EXTREMELY strong for a feat slot.

>>49940383
For now. and you're acting like that's nothing? Not everyone minmaxes.

>+6: You may take a bonus 5' step every time you are entitled to a Cleave attack, which you may take either before or after the attack.

>>49940304

>That Guy

>>49940338
"But damage breaks all" Was the rallying cry of wizards, clerics and druids in 3rd edition all the way until recently.

It was particularly bad on D&D and eventually early pathfinder forums, where it was quite literally a diversion tactic: Scream loudly enough about the fighter murdering six things in a turn with cleave and people won't pay attention to the fact that you literally just cut the various travel encounters, npcs and events with a long range teleport.

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>>49939316
Glad to hear it, I'm hoping this sticks so I can give it a rest, but I still have another two weeks before I need to have any changes set.

I still wish there were more ways for a player to customize constructs when crafting.

>>49940424
Woah, he gets cleave and greater cleave for free, so strong.

>>49940446

I didn't realize i would trigger people this badly, lol.

>>49940445
>Is in a party with a diviner, so fuck you too.

>>49940463
When your goal in D&D isn't minmaxing, it's pretty strong.

Noob here.

I'm playing for the first time ever pen & paper, and playing a wizard seems overwhelmingly confusing

should I just play something else?

>>49940446
>Assuming the cleric or the druid can't pull the same damage
I made a GM shut up when he wanted to face his upper duper barbarian against a caster, any caster of my choice of the same level

And own his ass with a fucking cleric WITHOUT MAGIC ITEMS in 4 out of 5 encounters, we were going to make 10, but he rage quit

>>49940494
>That Group

How many copies of spheres of power do you have?

>>49940509
When your goal in D&D isn't minmaxing you don't pick a druid, you pick a wildshaper ranger

>>49939901

Thanks. I got some feedback a while ago about the vigilante part (aka: Vigilante alt identity is kinda really situational depending on game type) so this latest version gets either that or the ability have a handy haversack (Well, scaling by level so it's only on par with the haversack at level 6) they can access from anywhere. All the better for vanishing shit for later.

>>49940516

Don't ask here. All you'll get is autism optimization which ruins the game.

>How to spot the samefag crying OP at martials
Like clockwork.

>>49940553
okay thanks anyways

do you know a place i should ask ? lol

>>49940542
See, the thing is, the idea that picking a core class means you're "minmaxing" is completely asinine. If simply writing "wizard" on ym sheet makes me minmaxing then something is severely wrong with your perception of the game.

If in order to not minmax I have to choose an obscure archetype then something is wrong. If not minmaxing takes a degree more system mastery then something is wrong.

>>49940542
I was asked to play a druid two days before the first session.

My goal was to limit my abilities so i wouldn't outshine the martial and dread necromancer, since they're my friends. The Tome Samurai has never played before, so he had no idea.

>>49940516
Try something with less spells, maybe a bard or a paladin, probably a paladin.

>>49940509
Then why the fuck did you pick a Druid if you're going to complain about how many dudes a martial can kill? If you didn't care you would have gone with "replace everything else ranger".

>>49940516

If it seems confusing, then you can always ask the GM or a more experienced player to help explain it to you. But yeah, couldn't hurt to try something a little less complicated in the meantime.

>>49940573

Giant in the Playground or Paizo's forums would be far better.

>>49940524
If that's true then he was playing the character incompetently. I can build a 1v1 encounter martial at level 12 that wins 4/5 encounters. If all you want him to do is kill the caster than it's piss easy to do this.

>>49939688

Of course I did, along with "eternal love" and "ageless fealty!"

It's a nymph, I can't do better than that.

>>49940516
Prepared casters take the most mastery of the system to play, to the point that most players (even here) can't play them properly.

Try and explain what part of the class you don't understand. I can help you out on spell selection as well.

>>49940610
thanks man

I'll ask there anyways but, do you know any way to find a chill group online to play with?

>>49940597

First, have some tendies. You're not you when you're hungry.

Second: >>49940577

And i wasn't complaining. All i said was "lol, and i thought my druid was going to be the OP one in the group"

What kind of retard would actually be upset by that, lol?

>>49940636
Giant in the Playground or Paizo

>Cleave and Greater Cleave is minmaxing
Phahahahaha, oh my god, /ofg/ never ceases to amaze me

I mean, if he's amazed at Tome Samurai, man, when he sees Core Fighter his head is going to explode

>>49940636

Paizo, Giant in the Playground, Myth-Weavers and Roll20!

>>49940478
It's like shit grammar leading you to tell us you helped your uncle jack off a horse. People notice it.

Pathfinder's default system and "errata" have a long history of shitting all over martials in favor of casters; and these things are often staunchly defended by exactly the kind of things you stated.

By calling "lots of damage guy" "tier 1", you are, in this case, claiming that someone capable of doing lots of damage is exactly on the same level as someone who can skip half the adventure, reduce social encounters and puzzles to a simple act of dominating some servant of the suspect and having him tell us everything to bring us straight to the climax.

Imagine two action movies:
In the first, the hero fucking murders every mook in his way until the final showdown. So basically every action movie ever.

In the second, the hero, instead of his wife and daughter being kidnapped leading to the whole rampage, discovers that tomorrow night people at 2911 Glenn Drive Apartment 3C will leave in their white panel van in order to kidnap his wife and daughter. Then a tragic gas explosion destroys the apartment early the next morning. The next hour and a half is golf.

That is the difference between "can kill lots" and Tier 1. And when people pretend the former is the latter *yet again*, there's usually an agenda or angle involved, such as getting a fellow PC nerfed, avoiding suspicion that the entire AP fell apart because of your cleric, or simply getting psionics banned because they're so much more powerful than wizards right right right?

>>49940692
Fighter is op it gets feats for free stuff like weapon specialization (+2 damage wtf?!) and d10 HPs come on

Guess there's no hope for getting my shit looked at since we're all here being autistic about god tier wizards and shit right now

>>49940526
Zero.

The diviner's a standard wiz.

>>49940692
Well you've got nothing better to do so go ahead and minmax tome samurai and compare it to a minmaxed Core (only?) Fighter.

If anything, it'll make my GM feel less stupid for allowing Tome Samurai.

>>49940712
>It's like shit grammar leading you to tell us you helped your uncle jack off a horse.

Tendies. Stat.

>>49940712
Why do you care?

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>>49940613

>Undying loyalty, eternal love, ageless fealty
>Those exact words promised to a fae

WELL.

Best of luck, my son.

>>49940712
>Pathfinder's default system and "errata" have a long history of shitting all over martials in favor of casters; and these things are often staunchly defended by exactly the kind of things you stated.

>Help! I'm being oppressed!

>>49940767

Let's be honest here, what's the worst that could happen?

>>49940003
I like the rules, but it gets to a point where they are just the best weapon choice. They don't get manyshot, but deal much more damage then a bow on average and are also more accurate. Hell, a 5th level fighter might as well not bother with melee weapons and just take Point Blank Master.

>>49940776
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

>>49940788
Given that its for an old west setting i'm kind of ok with it.

I have been GMing for more than a decade and have only had two people try the "I dominate everyone" way to skip social encounters.

Let me tell you, it doesn't work with any sane GM. Not only do NPCs pass saves, but in any society with any sense in D&D mind control is a grievous crime. If your wizard wants to alienate himself and become an outlaw because he can't be assed to ask questions then I think that's on the GM's fault.

A lot of other shit has issues to, but much less when you have the world act like it knows magic exists. The traditional castle as we think of it would be entirely different in a world with magic and numerous kinds of flying threats.

Really, a good 50% of issues are resolved when you think through the implications of HOMDs walking around the world.

I'm not saying there aren't still issues, but from what I hear GMs do around here is bend over and go "Oh yes Mr.Wizard, use your wand on my soft supple ass" every time he opens his spell book.

>>49940743
Leve three? deal
3d10 HPs instead of 3d8
At first level feats are Power Attack, Cleave and Weapon focus for example and Still have 3 other feats to pick.
I'm also proficient with heavy armor and shields, he's not

So I have more AC, more HPs, deal the same damage to the same number of enemies and still have 3 feats to spare.

>>49939901

Addendum to >>49940551

Currently, illusions/enchantment don't charge many of your fundamentals.

The PP is not however super duper dependent on illusions to charge your fundementals as it's illusion support is mostly in the area of 'Oh and you can also do this!' rather than it being a solitary focus.

>>49940798
Yeah, the only issue is if you want anyone to use these rules outside of said setting. They aren't balanced, but you seem to know that.

So /pfg/, how would you make a game in the mana wastes? Zones of anti-magic, zones of primal magic, and a few normal areas. The big issue is the anti-magic zone, as that shuts down almost every class out there.

>>49940810
He has more skill ranks

>>49940817
I'm not horribly focused on making them relevant out of the setting, its actually a goal for guns to be better than bows, using bows should be a weird thing thats only being done by a master or a savage,

I just want them to feel good to play with. I think i've hit on that point. And I think the strength ratings and hits-flat-footed helps make it so mad dex pumpers can equally get fucking shot and killed real quick.

>>49940783

Who knows? Maybe fae magics will be used to corrupt you into an ungodly, undying abomination who exists purely to tend your patron's slightest whims, incapable of any rational thought beyond what is necessary to serve and adore her.

>>49940800
The difference is that the GM NEEDS to fiat such things away because the game at it's core gives caster that kind of power, and that your "I dominate everyone" example is not only the most inelegant, but the easiest to counter.

>>49940761

Because it perpetuates the problems with pathfinder, leaving most non magic martials drooling in their own filth with little to contribute both in and out of combat.

>>49940810
Have them fight. Don't forget about Hordebreaker and Kiai. Don't forget about the bonuses to his sword.

>>49940844
Not almost every, it shuts down every class. Casters rely of magic to cast. Martials rely on magic items to be effective. Mortals without magic are essentially doomed. The only exception to this is very particular Pit/Orc blooded barbarians (for those sweet sweet inherent and morale bonuses).

>>49940767

Let's be honest with ourselves here.

If pledging those things got you free access to a Charisma 25 woman, wouldn't you?

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>>49940577
>>complaining about a martial hitting things with a stick and a shittier version of great cleave
>>thinks playing a 'toned down' druid is one with greenbound summoning

go fuck yourself with a rake, friendo

>>49940870
What this guy said
but also I can't watch anything because I'm still at work so I might as well do long-winded explanations since that means I make them typing sounds which mean I'm working.

>>49940858
>using bows should be a weird thing thats only being done by a master or a savage,
From a player perspective I must say there is literally no reason to master a bow because mastering a gun is significantly better.

>>49940868
>The difference is that the GM NEEDS to fiat
Having settings that respond to magic isn't fiat. You're misunderstanding what GM fiat means.

Literally list out examples I will tell you how settings SHOULD deal with them if they're actually thought through.

>>49940870
>GM's must include ALL of the sandbox or IT'S NOT FAIR.

Dungeons and Dragons is as overpowered as the GM wants it to be. Just because the options are there doesn't mean they must be included in 100% of campaigns.

Seriously, all this impotent rage because of features and gameplay elements that are meant to be judiciously applied?

>ME AM FOLLOW RULES RULES CANNOT CHANGE THAT UNFAIR ME.

for fuck's sake.

>>49940863

>Becoming an immortal barely-thinking stud that exists purely to service your lady

... I'm not seeing the problem here?

>>49940870
What about Autism Fighter? Can he contribute?

>>49940895
Never once complained. All i said was "and i thought druid was overpowered, lol" and you let it trigger you because you have PTSD from obsessing about internet fights.

>>49940895
If anyone doesn't know, greenboud summoning gives this template to all the summons

http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/greenbound.shtml

Yeah, talking about OP bullshit

>>49940913
>Dungeons and Dragons is as overpowered as the GM wants it to be.
The fact these options exist is a problem. Saying "you can change the rules" is not an excuse for a poorly designed game.

>>49940920

You're gonna have to be more specific, everyone has autism here.

>>49940907
People will still want to do it. Fuck man I run into people that try to play with Crossbows -right now-

Note that guns are also loud, and stealthy operations will likely be better served by a bow user

But if you could pick out one point to trim, what would it be?

>>49940907

The oppressed martial's world view:

>Martials always suck because casters are better
>but changing the rules to limit casters doesn't make martials better

You literally cannot reason someone out of that quagmire of logic.

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Sorry for interrupting...whatever it is that's going on right now.

About a week ago I came around asking for help with a Bloodborne homebrew class. I got some good feedback, so thanks for that. In return I wanted to take the opportunity to share the first finished draft for the class, along with some archetypes. Feedback is always appreciated, but right now I'm just getting it out there while I finish the other two archetypes.

Bloodborne Hunter:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NW98K-_vTEnS5ELs6UEZgu2WyMX0-hwrfEoMKGdUXlE/edit?usp=sharing

Vileblood:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s5BDGbHbBVnoqLpgMAFAlyz2etbaRLcJouVraeJasRI/edit?usp=sharing

Blood-Addled Hunter:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U85TQ-_b_anKdM2O9AzRv0XPxvZTZA9y9w_4GgrAzf0/edit?usp=sharing

>>49940932
Damage Reduction (Ex): A greenbound creature has damage reduction 10/magic and slashing. A greenbound creature's natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Fast Healing (Ex): A greenbound creature heals 3 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 or fewer hit points in combat, it is slain.

Grapple Bonus (Ex): The thorny hooks on a greenbound creature's hands and feet grant it a +4 bonus on grapple checks.

Resistance to Cold and Electricity (Ex): A greenbound creature gains resistance 10 to cold and electricity.

Tremorsense (Ex): Greenbound creatures can automatically sense the location of anything within 60 feet that is in contact with the ground.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +6, Dex +2, Con +4, Cha +4.

+6 to AC

For a feat it's balanced.

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>>49940880
It depends. There IS such a thing as a mouth that can ruin those looks.

For us regular uggos that's easy to do
>wow, ugly AND a bitch. what a catch

But better looks just mean it takes more of a shitty attitude to ruin it.

>>49940934
>The fact these options exist is a problem. Saying "you can change the rules" is not an excuse for a poorly designed game.

You sound like a kid who doesn't want to assemble a lego set because "these pieces can be anything!!"

>>49940936
http://pastebin.com/mcN9n7L9

Autism Fighter

>>49940956

>That pic
>Bear saying it how it is

I like it.

>>49940880

Not if fae are involved.

>>49940915

>Assuming you'll be her stud
>Assuming you'll be in any shape to be ANYTHING's stud

Need to learn to be more specific with those oaths, paison.

>>49939602
I'm also curious to hear about this.

>>49940964

Say what you will about Aqua, but she's a genuinely fun drinking buddy, even if she isn't necessarily someone you want to fuck.

>>49940950

Called it: >>49940934

>>49940895
I took greenbound summoning right as the first session was starting after i skimmed Tome Samurai, and because my DM is a known hardass and he's said we've a good chance of dying if we're not careful due to the nature of the setting. I was just going to take spell focus conj and augment summoning before that.

>>49940971
>You sound like a kid who doesn't want to assemble a lego set because "these pieces can be anything!!"
So you're saying because one can put in work to filter the game to make it "ok" means it is a well designed game? That broken/trap/etc. options are excusable because one can simply not use/take them?

Really what is worse is people without a level of system mastery simply do not know what is broken, they do not know how to filter and limit the game to their liking. The fact that these options are presented as equal with no way to indicate otherwise to a layman is an issue.

>>49940993
The only person there with an iota of consistent talent has struck out on there own.

>>49940962

You also cannot tell them to use their SLA's until 5th level or so when you get Speak to Plants.

>>49940956
Could you make a share link that can be commented on? I have found a few things that could cause issues but it would be easier to comment on the document itself rather than fill the thread with them.

>>49940973
>54 str
>40 con
>600hp
>+47 fort
>+39 ref
>+39 will

How does one even fight this?

>>49941026
Dont you fucking dare imply Gareth isn't top tier you cunt

>>49941016
>So you're saying because one can put in work to filter the game to make it "ok" means it is a well designed game?

Yes. A perfectly balanced game would be boring and stale. I sincerely doubt there is such a thing in the world.

>Really what is worse is people without a level of system mastery simply do not know what is broken, they do not know how to filter and limit the game to their liking.

Oh now we're talking about newbs who cannot minmax? You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.

Even if that did happen, a decent gm would say "Nah i have to nerf that" and a decent player would say "that's fine".

>>49940985

My DM won't be that much of an asshole! I have faith in him to portray this nymph as a kindly mistress who totally won't fuck me over!

You'll see!

>>49941053
You don't

>>49941053
Timestop
Summon Monster/Gate
Instigate Psychic Duel

>>49941053

Autism wizard, one would assume.

>>49941034
Really? fuck, well, we'll have to survive just with +6 Natural Armor, DR 10, fast healing 3, resistance 10 to electricity and cold, tremorsense and Str +6, Dex +2, Con +4, Cha +4 for now

>>49941062
>t. Jade Ripley

>>49941073
>DMs
>Not horrible monsters waiting to enact horrible ironic karmic retribution upon the players

oh my sweet summer child.

>>49941089

So batman-level prep time and plot armor, since you're implying that the caster would have foreknowledge of the fighter being a threat.

>>49941044
Links should be updated.

>>49940907
>Having settings that respond to magic isn't fiat. You're misunderstanding what GM fiat means.
And like I said, the fiat only applies to the most brutish means of using coercive magic.
Even then, who is usually the recipient of such spells? Do you think those stories of people walking into palaces and trying to use dominate on the king are true, or that minions of the bbeg often have status enough to bring charge to the pcs?

>>49941053
With a 15th level wizard, druid or cleric

>>49940182
It's a tome class.

Everything in there is balanced around a well optimized cleric /druid

>>49941098

They only last 1 round/level unless you took ashbound summoning or extend spell, so it's not like they have staying power. I only took it as an "In case shit happens" spell.

I feel like that's the role of the caster; Plan B.

>>49941107

Never! This DM is different! We're gonna hold hands and do Eskimo kisses and turn into a hideous elk beast and oh god what did I do!

>>49941112
>foreknowledge
there's an entire magic school about that, it's usually the most recommended Arcane School to pick

>>49940913
>Just because the options are there doesn't mean they must be included in 100% of campaigns.
>if you strip out 50% of the phb, the game is alright!

>>49941069
>Oh now we're talking about newbs who cannot minmax? You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
Are you trying to troll? Options that are presented as equal but wildly are not will disenfranchise new players who experience large differences in power between players. Why are so fucking focused on the idea of minmaxing? You're tunnel visioning to a point of idiocy.

>Even if that did happen, a decent gm would say "Nah i have to nerf that" and a decent player would say "that's fine".
And yet we see numerous people who do not know how the game works and either bans the incorrect material or simply do not care to. Your perceived "decent GM" is in an extreme minority.

Really I can not imagine someone arguing for it to be ok for a game to be this imbalanced. It baffles me that you are taking this position.

>>49941112
>implying a wizard of sufficient level wouldn't prepare Time Stop/Gate/Summon Monster
Instigate Psychic Duel is also the single most powerful lockdown spell ever created.

>>49941139
>I can shit creatures that outmartial hard the martial but hey, they only last 3 rounds,which are more than enough to destroy everything

>>49941107

>That DM

I feel sorry for you if autists is all you've played with. It's never DM versus Players.

Is it wrong that I want to open a campaign with the players all waking up in an open grave cause fuck i really wanna rip off new vegas's opening

>>49941069
>A perfectly balanced game would be boring and stale
This is because you have no idea what game balance actually is, or are a bad troll.
Probably both.
>>49941112
>all spells that work in 6 seconds and can be found on most decent spell lists at that level

>>49941089
Psychic duals and minds scapes target
the soul (which was specified in one of the occult books). He's immune to effects that require a soul.

>>49941174
Oh i'm not looking to just outright murder the players

The point is to make the players bring about their own downfall. And have something horrible happen for it. I know. Actions having consequences is -terrible-. I'm a shit DM.

And if they make a really stupid pledge to a fey, well, thats their own damn fault.

>>49941174

It's a fae, anon.

A NYMPH.

Those things are infamous for two things; blinding beauty and fucking you over.

>>49941142

Why is the wizard using foreknowledge spells on the fighter before he has foreknowledge that he's a threat? He just does it to everyone in town?

>>49941143
>I CAN ONLY BUILD WHAT THE INSTRUCTIONS SAY TO BUILD, MAKING OTHER THINGS JUST SHOWS HOW POORLY THIS LEGO SET WAS DESIGNED

>>49941152
Wizards are not stronger than martials in the hands of someone who barely knows what their spells do.

>And yet we see numerous people who do not know how the game works and either bans the incorrect material or simply do not care to. Your perceived "decent GM" is in an extreme minority.

Again, those people will be more effective with simpler martial classes than with complex caster classes, so your argument is moot.

>>49941173
And i only summon them when the martial gets fucked up and we'll die otherwise. It's not something i use every combat.

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>>49941202
>fucking you

>>49940950
Make martials not suck by making martials better, instead?

I would also object to nerfing casters. The problem (afaic) is that t456 classes exist at all.

I'd much rather t123 than t456, or even t345

>>49941184
>This is because you have no idea what game balance actually is, or are a bad troll.
>Probably both.

Name ten games that are perfectly balanced.

>>all spells that work in 6 seconds and can be found on most decent spell lists at that level

He still has to somehow know the fighter is a threat to scry on him and determine he's a threat.

>>49941193
Fair enough.

>>49941246
>Make martials not suck by making martials better, instead?

Doesn't work thematically. Just lower the level of magic in the setting if you want normies to be able to compete.

>>49941249
i can only name one game thats even near perfectly balanced

[spoilers]And its name is dota[/spoiler]

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>>49941246
>no issue with t1/2
>but t4 is an issue!

>>49941225
>It's not something i use every combat.
>I'm not broken as fuck because I can choose not to use it
Same as the samurai, he's not broken, he can choose when to use cleave ;^)

As for divination school, learn how to use it, it's basically for that "fate, tell me what I'm going to deal with today?"

>>49941272
well shit i fucked that up good.

>>49941246

Surely you realize there will be fewer unintended consequences of nerfing casters than buffing anything else?

>>49941294
the one that happens the most is that the group gets wrecked because the system assumes casters are that broken and so the monsters are pretty tough.

>>49941272
>limited in what you can pick
>you cannot change it after you've picked it.

Gee.

>Same as the samurai, he's not broken, he can choose when to use cleave ;^)

Lol, you fucking autist. you just cannot live without assuming that i cared if it was op. I was just relating something i found funny, that the tier 1 caster was not going to be the OP person in the group, and you literally lose your fucking mind.

Get a grip, dude.

>>49941323
What the fuck are you going on about dude

You're literally talking to someone else

Are you ok?

Do you need a hug?

>>49941318

So we're assuming super competent players and dumb GM?

Because if both are competent, the players won't make overpowered chars, and the DM won't make overpowered encounters.

If both are dumb, then neither will know how to minmax and everyone will have fun.

>>49941323
You're still tougher and stronger than him, even if you hide it from the group, you're the OP one, anon, you just don't want to admit it, but after tell us what your character have, we already know.

>>49941249
>Name ten games that are perfectly balanced.
This doesn't answer the question at all.
And there aren't any perfectly balanced games. That is what makes it a design GOAL, rather than an actualized reality.
You are saying a balanced game would be boring and stale. That directly shows you have no idea what balance is, or are a troll.
Your last (you).

>>49941339
>being this autistic.

>>49941164
>>49941089
See >>49941185

>>49941363
I play dota of course i'm autistic dude.

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I hope that next thread has more marriage dorkposting and less tiers shitposting.

>>49941323
>Can summon multiple rabbits that are stronger and tougher than the martial
>"I'm not the OP, damnit!"

>>49941384
Nah, it'll be about a Cleric complaining about the CBR Monk being OP.

>>49941384
Nah next thread will have Sir Faggotstein the Salted AKA Mr Grumpers show up since its getting near that time of night and he'll do his weird autistic posting after begging for curse of the crimson throne pdf.

and then he'll get trolled until the thread gets to bump limit and he'll then proclaim himself the victor and show up the next night.

>>49941356

So D&D is balanced, even though you have to tune the rules for your specific goals in the campaigns?

>And there aren't any perfectly balanced games.
>You are saying a balanced game would be boring and stale. That directly shows you have no idea what balance is
>even though i just stated that there are no perfectly balanced games

So are there no perfectly balanced games because it's impossible, or because it's not fun?

Because you're either going to prove that D&D is not imbalanced, or that perfectly balanced games are not fun, which were both of my contentions.

>>49941413
Jokes aside, I've been in a group in where the Sacred Fist Warpriest complained about the Sohei Monk being OP.

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>>49941413
>>49941414
Why does god hate us? I just want things to be cute

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>>49941451
Because anime was a mistake anon.

>>49941443
D&D is imbalanced, said even by it's developers.
And fun is subjetive, I know many people who found 4e fun and is considered a very well balanced game.

>>49941053
By doing 640 DPR I believe? Maybe a little more if there's DR or THP

>>49941229

Oh please, the sexual prowess of nymphs is legendary, you're grabbing for low hanging fruit.

I'd rather fuck you over anyway.

>>49941384

Are you offering yourself as the eligible bachelor, anon?

I mean, you're adorable and available right?

>>49941477

So does fun come from imbalance? Or are perfectly balanced games fun?

It's a game about dice rolls. Complaining about balance just shows an immature mind that cannot deal with losing.

>>49941451

Things *are* cute, anon! You're cute, this guy >>49941414 is cute, there's plenty of cute!

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>>49941496

>>49940726
Sorry bro, welcome to the internet, where people repeatedly misunderstand tiers and then think lots of DPR is the same as bypassing encounters entirely.

>>49941496
If you think fun comes from imbalance, why don't you play an expert with 10 on every stat from now on while everybody else are ToB classes? 10 years from now you tell me if it was fun.

>>49941225
Choosing to not break the game does not mean you're not broken.

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>>49941482
I'm pretty sure I'd be the one fucking you anon

>>49940913
Agreed.

Tier boundaries are reasonable.

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>>49941491
M-maybe? I've never thought of myself as adorable.

>>49941026
Oh? Who, and what have they made since?