MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge - 「 B L U E M O N D A Y 」

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When do targeting and resolution for effects for permanents that say "As X enters the battlefield" happen on the stack? Do these effects count as ETB effects?

>>49932143
Effects like that are replacement effects which modify the way the permanent enters the battlefield. Replacement effects do not use the stack, cannot be responded to, and don't target. They just happen as part of the permanent entering.

In this case, Alhamsandwich has each opponent reveal their hands, and you choose the name of a nonland card revealed that way, all as part of it entering. They can't respond to this; their last chance to respond is to cast spells or activate abilities in response to Alhamsandwich, the spell, before it begeins to resolve.

Let's say I'm controlling my opponents turn via Emrakul, if I cast Torrential Gearhulk, flashing back Unlicensed Disintegration targeting the Gearhulk, will my opponent take 3 damage?

>>49932349
Assuming that's their only artifact, no. Whether or not the Disintegration's controller controls an artifact is checked as it resolves, immediately after the destruction effect. So, at that time they no longer control their Gearhulk, which means they'll only take 3 from their own Disintegration if they control another artifact.

>>49932371
Thanks, that's what I figured. Just one more question:
My Opponent controls a Bristling Hydra, and chooses to activate its pay 3 energy ability, am I able to respond with a Grasp of Darkness in response to the cost being paid before its gets the +1/+1 counter & hexproof?

>>49932424
Yes. The "Put a counter on me and I get Hexproof until end of turn" doesn't happen until the ability resolves. It has to go onto the stack, and can be responded to, so you can blast it with Grasp in response.

>>49932434
Good to know I didn't cheese out my opponent yesterday. Sadly our judges were not at the game day yesterday so we had to use our best rules knowledge. Thanks again.

Do you think the new "partner" commander will share a commander tax? As the rules are now i think theyre taxes would be seperate but that seems unfair to me.

>>49934263
Did you read the mechanics article?
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/commander-2016-mechanics-2016-10-24

>>49934351
Oops. Sorry all no i did not read the article. Thanks anon

for delirium effects would an artifact creature like narnam cobra count as both an artifact and a creature or would it count as a separate thing? also doe vehicles count towards delirium or is that a subtype?

>>49934700

Artifact Creatures count as both Artifacts and Creatures, therefore 2 out of 4 for Delirium. Vehicles are only a subtype and only count as Artifacts for Delirium.

>>49935102
good to know. what about flip cards, for example atumnal gloom or startled awake, do they count as both or just whatever they go into the graveyard as?

Okay I just had a game at my LGS and basically we spent ages playing draw go until shit kicked off, and my opponent just could not into stack so far as I understand it.

>I have a Thing in the Ice down with 1 counter on it, and 3 Dynavolt Towers just to fuck things up more, and a Jace emblem just got shits
>Opponent has 4 Kozilek's Return in the yard and a couple guys down

I finally decide to break the stalement, and here's what followed:
>I cast Anticipate, announcing my Tower and Thing triggers
>Opponent lets the Tower triggers resolve, then responds by sacrificing a creature to cast Elder Deep-Fiend
>At this point I announced my emblem trigger to counter his first spell
>He lets Elder Deep-Fiend get countered, then announces Kozilek's Return
>Tell my opponent that they should've triggered at the same time as my emblem triggered
>He just doesn't understand
>Whatever, I intend to respond to the Kozilek's Return triggers with another Anticipate to remove the Thing's last counter and force him to burn 2 Returns while bouncing his shit
>Opponent says Kozilek's Return will do 5 damage and puts the card in exile, giving me a chance to respond
>Whatever, I cast another Anticipate and announce my Thing and Tower triggers
>Opponent pulls me up and says the Thing should have no counters on it right now because it should've been removed when I cast the FIRST Anticipate
>Tell him that the counter is only removed when the ability resolved and he's doing all of this in response
It wasn't even a new player, it's someone who's been playing longer than me. Standard is going to be hell. I would've thrown my hand up instantly for a judge if it was a judged event.

>>49935236

Flip Cards only count the front face while they are in any zone except the battlefield. So for example if you have Scrounged Scythe on the field and that goes to the graveyard, it will be Harvest Hand, an Artifact creature, in your Graveyard.

Another example is that Grizzled Angler can't be grabbed by Coax from the Blind Eternities because it isn't an Eldrazi, despite transforming into Grisly Anglerfish which is an Eldrazi.

>>49934263
Mechanics article said their taxes are separate.

>>49934700
Both- it counts all card types among all your graveyard cards; if a card has multiple types, it can contribute them all. You could technically have Delirium online with just two cards.

"Vehicle" is not a card type, but a subtype. There's 8* card types: Artifact, Creature, Enchantment, Instant, Land, Planeswalker, Sorcery, and Tribal. Anything to the right of the dash on the typeline is a subtype, and anything on the LEFT is either a Type or a Supertype. Delirium only counts Types.

>>49935236
The back face of DFCs literally does not exist in zones that aren't the battlefield.

>>49935585
So, what should've happened is you should have announced the order of your triggers. Then he flashes in Deep Friend, and triggers your Emblem and his Returns, which go on the stack in AP/NAP order. If it was your turn, I could see an argument for either out-of-order sequencing and let him have his Return triggers, or tell him he lost his triggers. Probably OOOS.

>>49935722
But he was so adamant about thinking that the Thing's last counter should have evaporated the instant my first Anticipate went on the stack! He was even telling me that it's removed "When" I cast it, as if he couldn't comprehend that "When" means the ability goes onto the stack and waits to resolve, then does as much as the ability can.

I'm going to have to put up with this for a fucking year until cast triggers suck a fat fucking dick and rotate out.

>>49935791
Yeah, the problem there isn't on-cast triggers, it's that your opponent doesn't understand how triggers work in the first place.

>>49935839
I think it's just that the triggers are happening in a non-ETB order that's screwing with the people at my LGS. Can you make me an honourary judge so I can tell people to shut up? :^(

>>49935716
>>49935722
>flip cards only count as the face card in all non-battlefield zones
so does that mean when persistant nightmare bounces back to hand it becomes startled awake again? I really like mill mechanics. is there a viable modern or standard deck I could build on the cheap utilizing this?

>>49935866
Technically you can't just tell people to shut up even if you're a certified Judge. Just having passed a test doesn't make me right.

>>49935884
It'd be really bad if it was Persistent Nightmare in your hand, since it'd be stuck there without a Show and Tell effect.

>>49935899
>show and tell effect
I'm a scrub, could you please elaborate? I just assumed that if it went back to your hand as persistant nightmare that iw would just be a no cost 1/1 you can plop down again and again.

>>49935965
>No cost
And there's the problem. It doesn't have a mana cost of 0. It has a mana cost of "does not exist". You can't pay a cost that doesn't exist- that's why you have to Suspend (or cascade into) the cards like Lotus Bloom and Hypergenesis, rather than just cast them for free; because they don't cost {0}, they cost {NULL}.

>>49935899
>Just having passed a test doesn't make me right
I'm fairly sure that it does in its own way. If someone can prove a judge wrong then go for it, but for all intents and purposes, the judge is the law.

>>49936044
Nah- I'm just an educated interpreter. I absolutely can be, and have been, HILARIOUSLY wrong about something. Being a Judge doesn't automatically make me right, just like NOT being a Judge doesn't automatically make someone else wrong. More likely to be right than an average person? Maybe, but not automatically right. I'm human, too.

>>49936080
>I'm human, too
Respect LOST.

What'a the weirdest situation you've run into judging a game of Magic?

>>49936126
"I accidentally shuffled my hand into my opponent's deck".

>>49936144
how? were they both using the same exact sleeves or no sleeves? what are the rulings on "accidentally" shuffling when it's not called for?

>>49936279
Exact same sleeves.

Player A cracked a fetch to nab a land, saying what they would get, and casting a spell (just a shortcut). Player B cracked a fetch to respond, and paused to check their hand to see what shock to find mid-shuffle, when Player A handed the deck over for a cut. Player B accidentally shuffled his hand into Player A's deck during said shuffle, because he didn't realize it was still in his hand.

Happily, though their sleeves were identical, their decklists were very much not, so I was able to piece together what cards should not have been in the deck and put them back into Player B's hand.

>>49936321
glad there was a happy ending. still want to know how shuffling when there's nothing triggering a shuffle is ruled though. is it considered outright cheating or is it something you can do if your opponent allows it? I would assume it's cheating considering there's mechanics that place cards at the top or bottom of a deck.

>>49936425
Well, there was a reason for them to shuffle. They just did it wrong.

If you shuffled your deck when nothing told you to, it'd depend on what led to it. Most of the time it'd just be a GRV with a Warning, but if I suspect you were doing it to gain an advantage, knowing that you can't legally just shuffle on a whim, THAT is Cheating.

Cheating requires three things: for you to be intentionally doing something illegal, for you to KNOW that you're doing something wrong, and for you to be attempting to gain advantage by doing so. If you don't know that what you're doing is against the rules, or you did it on accident, it's not Cheating (for example, casting a Doom Blade off of 2 Plains because you thought you'd left up 2 Swamps; that's not cheating, that's just a mistake)

>>49936144
I can't imagine this being an issue unless they both have the exact same sleeves.

>>49932048
If I Mindslaver somebody in a commander game and I get the option to exile his commander during his turn (that I control), do I also get to make the choice whether he'll be put into the command zone or is the choice impervious to such effects?

>>49937144
You make all choices that the controlled player would make.

Whether or not to put their Commander in the Command Zone instead of where it's going is such a choice.

>>49937389
My opponent has a sylvan library and a reforge the soul. Is there a way he can wheel with library triggers on the stack, or does he have to wheel before library can do anything?

>>49937749
Absolutely. By drawing Reforge for their Draw Step draw, they trigger Miracle. Miracle and Library both want to put their triggers on the stack at the same time, after SBAs are checked in the Draw Step. Since your opponent controls both triggers, they can put the triggers on the stack in whatever order they like; meaning they can Library and then Wheel, or Wheel and then Library.

Why are Wizards and players autistic about pile shuffling when false riffle shuffles are at least 70 years old and virtually undetectable even to expert observers? "Real" magic players have been cheating at cards a lot longer than MagicTM players. At least pile shuffle cheats like double nickel are blatantly obvious to anyone that isn't literally blind.

>>49939317
Because the only way to actually prevent people from cheating on the shuffle is to have a judge or other third party do the shuffle. For every single shuffle.

So they take the low hanging fruit and pretend there's nothing else to do.

>>49935722
Not specifically a rules question, but any idea why they didnt make tribal a supertype?

>>49942187
Because supertypes can't have subtypes.

>>49942275
Bump.

If an opponent counters my spell and I flip the table, look him dead in the eye and tell him to kill himself during a FNM game at my LCS, is that disqualifiable?

>>49943982
Very!

Hey gA long time no see!

If I attach an Equipment to a creature and lose control of the creature while the equip ability is on the stack, does the equipment still get attached?

>>49944096
It does not, because as the ability goes to resolve the target is not legal (because it isn't a creature you control).

>>49944226
Oh well, thanks though!

>>49932168
Is this different from WHEN x enters the battlefield?
I've been told that I can respond to Archangel Avacyn etb by doom blading or whatever. The indestructible still happens but she ded before it triggers

>>49944485
Correct. "When", "Whenever", and "At" denote TRIGGERED abilities, which absolutely use the stack, and can be responded to.

The "as ~ enters" things aren't triggers, but replacement effects, and can't be responded to. So are "~ enters the battlefield tapped", or "~ enters the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters"- they modify the WAY the permanent enters. It doesn't come in untapped, then tap itself, or without counters, then gain them- that's HOW it comes in.

By contrast, Avacyn comes in as normal, and WHEN that happens, a trigger is placed on the stack. The trigger doesn't actually do anything until it resolves, so she is 100% vulnerable to Doom Blades until then.

>>49944541
What if I just want to play a game and not solve an equation?

>>49944568
I'd say "Play mono red", but that involves counting to 7.

>>49944585
F-fuck you.

>>49944541
why isn't every etb AS then?

>>49944905
A few reasons. Any of them that target wouldn't really work, because when would you select your target?

Also, as I said- replacement effects can't be responded to. Wizards wants BOTH players to be able to respond to ETB effects, which is why they're triggers. If you made them into replacement effects, they'd basically be baked into the creature spell, so you'd have to respond to the spell, or not at all. Stifle and Trickbind would lose half of their functionality. There's lines of play that only exist when you can respond to the trigger, rather than the spell, etc.

In short, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

And with that note, I am off to bed. If the thread's still up tomorrow I'll answer questions- if it's dead, I'll make a new one!

>>49942275
I'm not sure i understand. I don't see why tribal has to be a type any more than legendary

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>>49932143
speaking of origins

does kothophed trigger from tokens dying?

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So when do you target shit with EDF? My opponent the other night said they cast it, pass priority, trigger to target, pass priority. Is this correct? I'm pretty sure it's cast, trigger, pass priority.

>Open my first magic pack in fucking forever
>get a mythic rare

LOL
O
L

Shits rigged to get me to buy more packs admit it

>>49948291
What rare?

>>49948136
>cast calamari
>no one gets priority because a trigger has to go on the stack
>choose targets
>pass priority
>they pass it back
>resolve trigger
>pass priority
>they pass it back
>resolve calamari

>>49947515
yes

Can I use stifle to counter cumulative upkeep ?

>>49948461

so lets say I choose targets, pick their four lands. i pass priority, they pass priorty, the trigger resolves, they can respond still by tapping and casting an instant or does the trigger resolving mean the land taps before priority passes.

>>49948950
He passed priority, the trigger resolves. He can tap the lands before he passes, but no, in this scenario he needs priority to tap them.

>>49948929
I don't see why not.

>>49948950
When the trigger resolves, the lands are tapped. No one gets to do anything during a spell/ability resolving.

what plane are WUBR and Silas Renn from?
why do they have missing bodies that are held together with metal fencing and fairy farts?

100.6b Players can use the Magic Store & Event Locator at Wizards.com/Locator to find tournaments in their area.

If I cast newmrakul, can I force my opponent to do this?

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>>49949166

>>49949180
I...don't see why not.

No, I'm pretty sure you can't. Just like you can't make them concede. I keked though.

>>49946102
The whole point of Tribal was to give creature subtypes to noncreature cards.

Supertypes cannot have subtypes.

It was easier for them to make Tribal a type, with a set of subtypes identical to Creature subtypes, than to make it a Supertype and write in a rule that the Tribal supertype allows non-creature types to have creature subtypes.

>>49947515
Yep! Tokens are permanents.

>>49948136
Deep Friend never targets anything, because creature spells don't target.

The TRIGGER needs targets as soon as it's put on the stack, which is right after you cast Deep Friend. So you'd cast it, it would trigger, trigger would go onto the stack, and then your opponent has priority with both the trigger and the spell on the stack.

>>49948362
Your hand size is equal to the number of Hour counters on the most-recently-played Midnight Oil.

>>49948929
Yes, it's a trigger. Countering it would stop the card from getting an Age counter that turn AND from you needing to pay for it that turn.

>>49948950
They can allow the trigger to resolve, then respond to the spell on the stack. They can't pass priority back, "let the trigger resolve", then respond by tapping lands- because the trigger resolved. It tapped those lands. They'd have to tap their lands in response to the trigger itself.

>>49949166
Alara, most likely from Esper. It's a living metal called Etherium, and the sapient life on Esper is obsessed with replacing huge chunks of themselves with it.

Veteran Bodyguard won't stop trample damage going through normally. Correct?

But what if you were attacked by a Iroas's Crusader with Primal Frenzy enchanting it and cast Curtain of Light or Flash Foliage after first strike damage?

>>49949830
>Trample
Right. If you block the creature, it isn't UNBLOCKED, so none of the damage goes to Bodyguard.

>Second thing
If you mean Iroas's Champion...

Still no. The creature became blocked (via your spell, but still), so Bodyguard's effect doesn't apply because it isn't an unblocked creature damaging you.

Destroy refers just to damage greater than toughness and cards that explicitly say destroy, right?

>>49952302
Things are only destroyed if they are creatures with lethal damage on them, or a specific "destroy" event happens to them, yes.

Did you have a specific interaction or card in mind?

>>49952898
I'm mostly thinking about Pyramids.

>>49953116
Pyramids is weird.

>>49953116
>>49953142
Not as bad as Equinox.

>>49948442
Forest Gearhulk, not the masterpiece version of it unfortunately

what happens if I awaken Westvale Abbey and then transform it into Ormendahl?

>>49956647
Transforming it changes the copiable characteristics, but any continuous effects applied to it still work. So it'll override Ormendahl J. Simpson's P/T to 0/0, and it'll still have the counters on it. Also he wouldn't be a Demon, but an Elemental, from the Awaken effect.

So basically, you just make him smaller.

If a sac Kokusho, the Evening Star for something like Viscera Seer or Ashnod's Altar will his ability trigger ?

>>49957042
He died, so yes.

Somebody posted this combo in another thread and i need some help figuring it out. March of the machines plus micosynth lattice plus planeswalkers plus experiment kraj. If kraj puts a counter on one or more of the planeswalker creatures can kraj use loyalty abilities?

If I Legerdemain a creature under the effects of Mind Control or Take Possession, do I get it?
If I keep it, what happens if either enchantment gets destroyed?

Can you answer the pay 50 life, do 50 dmg ability of that artifact? If yes, let's say the opponent has 51 life and I respond his ability with a fiery temper, what would happen?

>>49958214
I think he would lose first, since he pays 50 life to activate the ability which goes onto the stack, and then you cast Fiery Temper. He's currently at 1 life, Temper deals 3, and he dies before his 50 damage ability resolves.

>>49957042
Yep! "Died" just means "Was put into a graveyard from the battlefield". Doesn't matter if Koko was destroyed or sacced, both are still 'dying'.

>>49957845
He can, because those are activated abilities of a thing with a +1/+1 counter. However, you have to pay the cost of adding or removing however many loyalty counters, and you can only do one loyalty ability per permanent per turn.

>>49957892
Yes. The Legerdemain sets up a new control-changing effect in Layer 2, which overrides the Aura's. The Aura is still ATTACHED to the creature, mind you, it just doesn't do much. If the aura gets destroyed, nothing much happens.

>>49958214
It's an activated ability which means it uses the stack and can be responded to. Your Temper would put them at -2 life, and they would die to SBAs before their ability ever resolved.

>>49958996
you remember that bullshit about aetherflux if you cast two instants you gain 2+2 life instead of 1+2

what happens in the case of Rashmi, Eternities Crafter?
>cast 3 cmc spell
>rashmi topdecks a 2 cmc spell
>2 cmc spell resolves, gain 2 life?
>first spell resolves, gain 2 life?

what about Harness the Storm?
>take inventory, recasting another take inventory from bin
>gain 4 life? my "storm count" is now at 2, right? not sure about timing of these abilities but i figure one can stack them

>>49959937
>Rashmi
Correct, if you stack your triggers so that Rashmi's is on the stack ABOVE Reservoir. She'll trigger, flip the top card, and cast it. That triggers Reservoir again; each trigger will gain you 2 life as it resolves.

>Harness
Same deal. Both your triggers, so you can put the Harness trigger above the Reservoir trigger to cast the Inventory in your bin, gain 2 life, draw 1 card, gain 2 life, then draw 2 cards, in that order.

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Play Saskia, swing with a 1/1 with Furnace of Rath out. As I understand it, the 1/1 does 2 combat damage to the defending opponent because of Furnace, Saskia's ability happens and tries to do 2 damage to the chosen one and then Furnace says "nah make it 4"?

>>49960271
Correct.

>>49960271
>Saskia's ability happens and (the 1/1) tries to do 2 damage

>>49960283
This legend's a lot better than I initially thought.

>>49960005
thanks that helps
i'm actually considering cutting Rashmi because while she is quite good she is literally the only reason I'm running green
I've tried bfz kiora, altered ego, wildest dreams but all are not quite right. do you have any suggestions here? the list is heavy on cantrips to keep the cards going, using Jori En who is also good. ideally i would like a backup wincon for if they fuck up my aetherfluxes. i need some perspective, can you help?

>>49960312
>Suggestions?
I don't think you understand how catastrophically bad I am at Magic.

In a multiplayer game, if one player concedes, is there any time for other players to respond to the change in board state as a result?

>>49960271
This girl breaks double strike in two

>>49960689
In a way. They can't respond to the actual concession, but the player leaving the game may cause some other stuff to trigger (not likely).

Since sanctioned multiplayer basically doesn't exist outside 2HG at prereleases, feel free to play it by ear- have the player say "I'm gonna scoop. Before I do that, does anyone have anything they wanna do?"

>>49960865
>may cause some other stuff to trigger (not likely)
I'm having a hard time thinking of what someone leaving would do because them and all their swag is gone. All their effects on stack too. I don't think leaves the battlefield effects notice a conceding player's stuff leaving. Maybe if players have been swapping creatures?

It's more their absence, like you can't disenchant their Oblivion Ring to get back your whatever, that's gone now. Or you can't play something to benefit from their Forced Fruition or whatever.

>>49960916
Right- which is why it's a nice thing to say "I am going to scoop, so if anyone wants to do something before I do that, do it now", like giving an opportunity to pop their O-Ring.

They don't HAVE to, mind you, but it's a nice gesture.

Imagine I have a Artisan of Forms, cast a spell on it and make it be a copy of Basking Rootwalla, then I use its ability.

If I make it become a copy Basking Rootwalla again, could I use its ability again ?

If I make it be a copy of another creature, then make it become a copy Basking Rootwalla yet again, could I use its ability again ?

If I were to unsubstantiate my own spell queller while the ETB trigger is on the stack, will the spell I'm targeting with spell queller be exiled forever?

>>49964504
Yes, exiled forever.

>>49961753
I feel like you should be able to, because it's a new instance of the ability each time.

>>49964504
Yes. The LTB trigger would resolve and bring back nothing, then the ETB would resolve and exile the spell for good, because the LTB trigger that WOULD have brought it back already happened.

Let's say on my turn my opponent crews a vehicle. I then use Liliana's +1 to give it -2/-1 until my next turn. At the end of my turn it stops being a creature.

If my opponent crews it again during their turn will it get -2/-1 again or does the effect fizzle away once it stopped being a creature?

So I drop Warp World and we all choose to command zone our generals instead of shuffling them in.
Do we still count each of our generals when it comes time to flip cards off the top?

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Can a well-placed Time Stop end an infinite combo? Are infinite combos actually infinite or are they just effectively infinite and at the end you can interrupt? Will it vary depending on combo?

>>49968425
Depends on the combo. Generally the answer is yes.

>>49968425
To flesh out that "depends on the combo" answer:

Some combos might depend on a single central piece or a sorcery speed ability and get stopped by Time Stop.
Other combos might just be reactivated for a second time in response to Time Stop.

>>49968425
If it's an infinite combo that the player can choose to end at some point, they demonstrate the 3 points of being shortcuttable (forms a loop, name a number of iterations of the loop, state the ending position) and then do it. If you want to respond at any point, you'll want to make them go through that combo part by part until you time-stop the part you want - hopefully one where they can't go "in response continue the combo".

If it's a series of mandatory looping actions that players can't choose to stop, the game will be a draw.

>>49965299
Is there a single justifyable reason why Kent shouldn't be B& after what happened at the Open last week?

>Kent Playing dredge
>opponent has an empty graveyard and casts Rest in Peace
>Kent moves his graveyard off to the side a bit.
>Opponent passes the turn without doing anything else.
>Kent continues dredging and wins
>Opponent points to RiP
>"You missed the trigger so my graveyard never got exiled."

Ordinarily I'd say simple GRV-Failure to maintain, but Kent showed that he knew his graveyard was exiled and clearly pretended it didn't because it'd help him win. That's literal IPG-definition cheating, right?

>>49968678
who the hell is kent? also yes, that judge is stupid.

>>49968678
Where can I read more about this? Google isn't helping.

>>49968744
>>49968786
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPwnclSzLgc

>>49968678
>>49968845
I don't want to look at the vid but if it goes on what you said then the judge is stupid. One does not have to maintain awareness of a trigger until the first instance that it matters. Once the guy start dredging and the opponent points to RiP, that means he is aware of the trigger and thus it's exiled.

>>49968933
I think you should watch the video to get a better understanding of what happened. It doesn't exactly match what the first anon said.

Do the tokens from >>49968864


trigger panharmonicon?

>>49968985
Yep! A creature is triggering the ability of a permanent you control, so it'll proc twice. However, the "exile all the other tokens made by this" will also happen twice - so barring other ETB/LTB triggers it won't have an effect on the gamestate.

>>49969065

Cool, thanks. I'm mostly looking into it for ETB shenanigans, I know they will be exiled unles I use sundial of the infinite or something like that

>>49969106
There's actually no way to get multiple tokens off Faerie Artisans.
It's all one big trigger, so either none of it resolves and you get no new token or all of it resolves and your old token is exiled.

Does Hallowed Moonlight stop an Entwined Tooth and Nail?

>>49969174
Yes and no.
If you respond to a Tooth and Nail with it, your opponent can just search 2 creatures to hand, then put zero to the field.
Yes, it stops them from getting 2 creatures in the field. No, they don't have to put creatures to the field to be exiled.

>>49969127
Pnaharmonicon makes Artisans triggers twice. So it'll make a token and exile all the others, then make another token and exile all the others. (notably the one the first trigger made)

If you want multiple tokens off Faerie Artisans, you'll need a token doubling/populate effect.

>>49966227
Nah, the effect is still existing in layer 7c, it just doesn't DO anything while the Vehicle isn't a creature. If they animate it again, it kicks right back in.

>>49968425
Most infinite combos are just a repeatable loop of actions. As long as they can't begin a new iteration of the loop in response to Time Stop, and must let it resolve before they could start again, a Time Stop could end the combo. But it'd depend on the combo.

>>49968678
As with all things like this, I do not presume to have all of the information that the Judge at the event did, combined with "Hindsight is 20/20" and "Judges are Human".

>>49968985
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. Panharmonicon will make your Artisans trigger twice, and if the token itself has an ETB trigger, that will also fire twice.

>>49969174
Sorta. It'll stop them from putting a creature out, but because they put UP TO two creatures into play, they can just put 0. So their creatures aren't exiled unless they're dumb, but you can make them have to honestly cast them (or use another cheat effect) to get them out.

>>49969727
>Sorta. It'll stop them from putting a creature out, but because they put UP TO two creatures into play, they can just put 0. So their creatures aren't exiled unless they're dumb, but you can make them have to honestly cast them (or use another cheat effect) to get them out.
Doesn't matter if it's "up to", hand is a hidden zone so they could fail to find.

>>49970000
That's specifically for searches, and you're not searching your hand.

>>49970037
So wait. On things like Memoricide where you're searching someone else's hand, can you fail to find the thing you're looking for?

>>49970215
Yes, because that -is- a search. That rule is baked in for two reasons: In case you don't want to find something when searching YOUR shit (for whatever reason), and to allow a no-penalty-needed outcome if you Memoricide someone and 'miss' a card.

>>49970305
This seems a lot more relevant with lost legacy giving your opponent a free card for every copy you rip out of your opponent's hand!

>>49970444
True.

I've heard horror stories about YGO where you can be penalized for playing a card like Memoricide and 'missing' one of the cards in your opponent's deck. Then again, that game is like a walking talking Poe's Law; I can't tell which of the ridiculous things about their rules are real and which are satire.

>>49970481
You're close. If you can't find a card with a certain quality in your deck, your opponent is allowed to look at your deck to confirm it.

What happens from there depends a lot on if the judge thinks you missed it, or you actively wanted to not find it.

>>49970531
Yeah, their rules, policies, documents... all of it sounds so ass-backwards. Other gems I've heard, all of which I simultaneously hope are false and fear are true:

>Touching your opponent's cards, in any fashion, is a Game Loss penalty
>None of the IPG/Tournament Rules are available online; they're only made available to judges, and sharing them with non-judges will get you decertified and possibly banned from organized play
>If a head judge at a large event makes an incorrect ruling, and it isn't publicly rescinded at the event, the ruling becomes LAW for that card/interaction until a more senior judge 'overrules' it at an event
>New card types have been released, legal for tournament play, before the rules for them are available to the judge community
>There is zero communication between the US judge community and the Japanese one
>Anyone can become a Judge by brute-forcing the online test until they pass

How exactly do I ask someone to split prizes without getting dinged for bribery?
This is the most incomprehensible part of an otherwise nearly perfect legal language.

Also, who's your favorite commander, and why?

>>49970616
Just say "Wanna split prizes?" and then play the game. Where you get into murky territory is where you're linking (explicitly or implicitly) the prize split to a result; if all you want is the prize split, just offer it and then play the game out (this happens a lot at prereleases, for example, where players might rather enjoy the game and a guaranteed 4 packs each, than playing for the CHANCE at 6, and the RISK of 2).

IF what you want is for them to concede to you, or for a draw, just ask for that. Don't mix prizes into it, because even if you don't INTEND for the prize split to be an incentive for them to give you the match result you want, it can very much be seen that way.

My favorite Commander is probably Treva, the Renewer. She was my first one, and the deck itself was terrible, but got retooled a few times.

My favorite commander DECK depends on the day- I usually have a blast with whatever hot garbage I most recently threw together until the novelty wears off, and then it'll just depend on what kind of mood I'm in.

>>49970616
To the best of my knowledge it us cheating/illegal to determine the outcome if the match by random method (such as rock paper scissors) or bribery (you can't offer your opponent part of you prize pool to convince him to concede). "Splitting" is usually done by writing the match slip as both players won one game and the final game is a draw, ensuring they get are both at the same standing and get equal prizes (assuming prizes are based on number of wins and/or ties, when prizes are based on 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Tie breaters will come into play). I believe this is allowed because both players agreeing to have the match outcome be 1-1-1 is not determined randomly or by bribery.

>>49970592
>Touching your opponent's cards, in any fashion, is a Game Loss penalty
Touching without permission was at times seen as an intent to steal and was a DQ. Now it's a "hey, you really shouldn't do that".

>None of the IPG/Tournament Rules are available online; they're only made available to judges, and sharing them with non-judges will get you decertified and possibly banned from organized play
IPG is public, TR is public but very vague and open to exceptionally liberal interpretation. IPG is also mostly guidelines more than actual rules, judges are allowed to deviate like hell.

>If a head judge at a large event makes an incorrect ruling, and it isn't publicly rescinded at the event, the ruling becomes LAW for that card/interaction until a more senior judge 'overrules' it at an event.
Mostly true, but the height of the even also matters (a new FNM ruling wouldn't necessarily trump a SCGO ruling - but again, depends.)

>New card types have been released, legal for tournament play, before the rules for them are available to the judge community
More like before the rules were formally decided. There was a lot of ad lib, assuming you're talking about xyz monsters.

>There is zero communication between the US judge community and the Japanese one.
They're effectively two different games. Different cardpools, different ban lists, different errata to some cards, different rulings. They sell the same product and that's the only common link.

>Anyone can become a Judge by brute-forcing the online test until they pass.
Sadly true.

>>49970693
Actually, a prize split is usually offering to split prizes evenly no matter the outcome of the tournament (and almost exclusively done in the last round). Also, an intentional draw should always be reported as 0-0-3.

>>49970710
>touching was theft
Yeah, I remember hearing that theft has always been a REALLY huge problem at large events. One of the big PTOs in Florida got hit by a car trying to stop a ring of bag-thieves at a Regionals or something, and now refuses to touch YGO

>IPG is public
Huh, neat. I'd never been able to find it.

>allowed to deviate like hell
whyyyyy

>XYZ
Yeah, it was that. I heard that there was a huge tournament right after they came out, but the judges didn't actually have the rules for them, and "ruled" in such a way that made them broken as fuck (and was incorrect)

>>49970693
>>49970753
So, let's say I'm up against a dude I've played against in the past. If we're both tired, and it's late, and we just want to be done, how can I express my desire to split the prizes between us, as well as the intent to call the match a draw?

Like, say "Do you want to just call it a draw?" without bringing in prizes? How can I address the unspeakable intent?

>>49970661
I once split 5 packs total prizes with a guy, 3 for the winner. That's fine, right?

>>49970814
If your intent is to just get shit done, it's most likely that a draw will give you roughly equivalent prizes to "One of you concede, and then split" and make things a lot easier.

Even if you're not INTENDING to make it look like you're offering him prizes in exchange for the draw, it absolutely CAN look like that. So just communicate what you actually need to: "We're both tired, we want to be done. Just call it a draw?". Leave prizes out of it.

>>49970819
Absolutely. "How about winner takes 3, loser takes 2?" followed by actually playing out the game of Magic is in no way Bribery, and is absolutely fine. You're not trying to offer them something for a match result, you're just asking if they'd agree to honor an agreement to split the prizes a certain way, even if THEY win.

>>49970779
It wasn't changed because it was incorrect, it was changed because there was a GIGANTIC secondary market explosion that needed to be corrected or else it'd warp the game.

There was famously a short-print promo that was the core of a tier 0 deck. Due to its scarcity, the deck was prohibitively expensive, to where we assume there were only 15 copies of the deck at the one GP-the reason we have that number is because it took 15 of the top16 of that tournament (the last was YGO's version of dredge, only a fuckhuge dragon instead of zombies.)

>>49970870
Ah, I see. I only heard about it secondhand from a friend who used to be a competitive YGO player; something about it was ruled that detaching an XYZ material counted as it going to the graveyard, so shit like Sangan would trigger off of that, which made certain cards absolutely bonkers.

But really, just about everything about YGO is a dumpster fire.

>>49970870
Is that the one that's still worth $1500?

>>49970910
The big problem is where the materials to make the xyz monster go - they stay on the playmat because they're used to pay for activated abilities, but they don't stay "in play" where they can be targetted by normal cards or abilities. It's a kind of limbo.

>>49970946
Nah, the lynchpin card that made the deck broken got emergency-banned after that tournament, then got printed into the ground to ensure it had no value.

Konami does that a lot, devaluing chase cards by banning them and massive reprinting - though usually it's done in the reverse order.

This isn't really a judge question, but are there any cards that reduce the cost of morphing/megamorphing? The actual flip over component, not the 3 to cast face down. Or more effects like Ixidor? I had trouble formulating a useful query

>>49971111
Nice digits

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Is this an kntervening if? the comma is not on the right place, but it matches the rest

>>49971111
dream chisel and obscuring aether make them less to cast, but cant find any turn-up cheaper

>>49971111
>are there any cards that reduce the cost of morphing/megamorphing? The actual flip over component, not the 3 to cast face down.

You should be able to use either Heartstone or Training Grounds to reduce those costs, but I'm not 100% sure.

>>49971291
Not an intervening if for a very common sense reason. An intervening-if trigger sees if its condition is true (someone other than you was dealt damage) and if so it goes on the stack, otherwise it doesn't even trigger. It then, as it resolves, double-checks to see that the condition is still true.

If you can find a way for "dealt damage to someone else" is true when the ability triggers, but not true when it goes to resolve, good for you.

>>49971294
no, turning a card face up is a special action, so reducing the cost of activated abilities wont effect it.

>>49971111
Not that I know of.

>>49971294
No dice- they're not activated abilities. Paying that cost to turn them face-up is a special action.

>>49971291
"When/whenever/At TRIGGER EVENT, if CONDITION, EFFECT".

This isn't an intervening if because it's not comma-if-comma-effect; this will ALWAYS trigger, and it'll check to see if anyone's lost life this turn as it resolves. I may be wrong, and it may be worded a little different to avoid ", if a player other than you lost life this turn, that player draws a card", because that makes it seem like the one who lost life draws the card.

I lean 'No', with the asterisk of "Wait until the release notes"

Can Saheeli's Artistry copy a creature and then copy that copy since it's an artifact, or do you choose the targets at the same time?

>>49973596
Targets are declared while casting the spell.

>>49956794
Isn't the elemental part in addition to it's other types?

How exactly does essence Flux work? Does it happen instantly? Just wanna make sure

>>49973596
It cannot, because you select all your targets well before the spell starts to resolve, and that token doesn't exist yet.

>>49973685
Nope! It just says "elemental", not 'in addition to', so it overrides other Creature subtypes entirely.

>>49974062
You move the target to exile. You then move it back to the battlefield, as part of resolving the spell.

Hey gA, if you exile Faerie Artisans, say with Deadeye Navigator, will it remember that it made a token from its effect on the battlefield? Will I still have to exile the other token when its effect triggers?

Why does the errata text for Soul's Fire specify "on the battlefield"? Can a creature exist anywhere else?

From the Gatherer:
>Target creature you control on the battlefield deals damage equal to its power to target creature or player.

>>49975333

just insurance to prevent future accidents I think

>>49975269
Since it refers to itself, and not "cards named Faerie Artisan", it works just fine.

>>49975333
So, since it has two targets, the spell will still resolve if one of them has become illegal, but with this wording nothing happens. If it weren't for the "on the battlefield" line, and YOUR creature had left the field, the spell would resolve and do damage equal to what your creature's power was as it LAST existed on board.

>>49975470
>>49975481
Ahhhh I see, I forgot that Soul's Fire had two targets so it would normally go through even if the creature died

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How does something like Twincast interact with an opponent's spell with no target? Would you be doubling the effect for them?

>>49975481
What about Fall of the Hammer?

>>49975617
The copy is yours, so you get the copied effect.

>>49975617
You have the option of selecting a new target. If you don't, it just keeps the same target, even if the target is illegal, if you wanted to do that for some reason.

>>49975661
If your creature is gone, the spell will use LKI and still deal damage. If theirs is gone, nothing happens.

>>49975701
>>49975755
Let's say I played it in response to Time Stretch. What would be the result?

>>49975827
Your Twincast would create a copy of Time Stretch, and assuming that resolves AND assuming you made the copy target yourself, your Time Stretch will resolve first, then the original Time Stretch will resolve. Once the current player ends his or her turn the caster of the original Time Stretch will take two extra turns, then you will take two extra turns.

>>49975755
So a creature that leaves the battlefield is still a legal target for Fall of the Hammer?

>>49976400
Not at all! But because the spell still has a legal target, it'll continue to resolve and do all it can.

>>49976434
I am confused. If the first target leaves the battlefield, then it becomes an illegal target. You say that the damage would still be dealt, but Gatherer states that an illegal target would not deal damage.

>>49976511
...huh. That's odd. I was pretty sure it would use LKI.

I'm gonna look into the why behind this.

>>49976540
>>49976511
Okay, stupid me, I forgot that the whole "the first target is illegal" doesn't do LKI.

can you pay zero for a card with an X cost?

>>49976589
The judge made a mistake!
Juuuuudge!!

>>49977386
Unless the card explicitly says you can't, yes.

>>49977412
Hey, I told you guys I'm human.

>>49971294
>Heartstone

Wrong game buddy

Bedtime!

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>>49977751

Also, friendly bump.

>>49977751
Hearthstone

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what is the what on what 'combat damage' is? i need to know the what

also, if this instant had 'draw a card' it would be goat

>>49974062
the exile and the come back happen at resolving the spell, nobody can take actions while this is going on

>>49982082
Combat damage is damage dealt by creatures during the Combat Damage step. Note this is the only time combat damage happens, so fight cards or creatures that deal damage as part of an ability do not count.

>>49982082
Combat damage is solely the damage that is dealt during the turn-based action at the beginning of the Combat Damage Step. Basically, damage dealt by attackers/blockers as a consequence of aformentioned attacking and blocking.

If you were to cast Get the Party Started, that'd stop the combat damage for the turn (so attackers wouldn't hit blockers or players/planeswalkers, blockers wouldn't hit attackers), but not any other damage; it wouldn't stop a Lightning Bolt or an Inferno Titan's noncombat damage.

scrub question here; for cards that target permanents (like tradewinds) does that mean just creatures or can lands, equipments, etc. be targeted as well?

>>49982995
A permanent is any card on the battlefield. So lands, Artifacts, Creatures, Enchantments, and Planeswalkers.

>>49983001
cool, that makes tradewinds a much better card than I thought it was.

Does Animar work with Suspend (if a creature uses it of course). I know he works with Morph and Evoke but was wondering if this wouldn't count.

>>49983705
Eventually casting it off suspend would trigger him if that's what you mean. The reduced costs don't do anything for suspend things though.

>>49983705
He won't make suspending it any cheaper, but he'll get a counter when you cast it out of suspend.

>>49984032
Lunch bump

If I have a Kalitas traitor of ghet with 3 health on board and I cast radiant flames for 3 does he still exile my opponents creatures?

Can a sealed game be played with a cube?

>>49986596
yes he will

>>49986596
Creatures don't have health, but yes. Kalitas is dying at the same time as those creatures, so his replacement effect can still apply to them.

>>49987100
A sanctioned one? No.