Scared yet? (Also: how to fix Necrons) My suggestion is to give

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>>49930298
>My suggestion is to give them all a cool offensive psychic effect when they die
My suggestion is that you kill yourself.

>>49930298

Are these the new immortals?

If so I'm a little sad cuz I liked the simplicity of their "we just strapped more Gauss rifles together" technology.

>>49930298
No

>>49930298
But necrons don't die, they just go back to regroup ;^)

>>49930344
But friend, if I did that I would unleash my psychic attack on you

>>49930298
The position of that thing on the bottom of their guns is lewd.

>>49930298
I'm very scared of Necron dicks, yes.

*phases behind u*

pssh... nothin personnel, kid

*unleashes a cool offensive psychic effect at u*

>>49930519
Christ can't unsee it now

>>49930298

Necron penises confirmed

>>49930365
They are tesla guns, not gauss.

>>49930558
Take the knot!

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>>49930519
>>49930558

Robo-dongers to go with the robo-bobs

>>49930298

>>49930298

How to fix necrons

>Remove all the newcron space egyptians shit

>Remove all the ugly ass cartoony vehicles

>Remove all the shitty ass stories about muh power and muh powerstruggles from necron lords

>Go back to oldcrons.

>Go back to big, imposing vehicles that work unlike those of any other army

>Go back to the silent, relentless, souless army they were before. (There was a time when Pariahs where the only necron thing that remotely resembled humanity)

>Go back to the OP basic troops and eliminate all these flashy fuckton of shitty looking new units

>>49931274
Literally retarded. Because "Oh geeeee Wilikers! The or reality warping, super god C'tan just got nailed with a few Lascannons, and died! But dont worry, its just as planned~" is sooooo muh better, am I right?

The Vehicles look fine, the lore is better, and also:
>Pariahs where the only necron thing that remotely resembled humanity

We are talking about the same race of spooky robo men who look like Skeletons, right?


And speaking of Skeletons, can we all agree that the Unit selection for oldcrons was sooo diverse? I mean we had stuff like:
>Robot Skeleton
>Slightly Bigger Robot Skeleton
>Robot Skeleton with a big stick
>Robot Skeleton riding a hover Board
>Robot Skeleton riding a hover Board with a big gun
>Robot Skeleton riding a hover Board with a big stick
>Robot Skeleton covered in blood
>Robot Skeleton thats also a ghost
>Robot Skeleton that is also alive and has a big stick
>A black brick
>A bunch of bugs
>One big bug

Man, weren't Oldcrons the coolest?

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>>49930365
Dont be sad, they still have the option.
The kit aint really new, btw

>>49931386
>Literally retarded. Because "Oh geeeee Wilikers! The or reality warping, super god C'tan just got nailed with a few Lascannons, and died! But dont worry, its just as planned~" is sooooo muh better, am I right?

We can go with the DoW approach and have the C'tan God possess Necron Lords with a portion of their essences and transforming them in their image as an avatar. Heck, there is a short story from BL where a C'tan God chilling in the Gates of Varl took control of a Necron construct on the other side of the galaxy and used it as his avatar to mind control and feast on the populace of a Forgeworld.

So nobody is literally retarded but you for not figuring out a way to make it work.

The sharding was a mistake and was unnecessary.

>Man, weren't Oldcrons the coolest?

Compared to the bad models the Newcrons got? Yes.

>>49930298
> offensive psychic attack
> in a race that is known for having no souls or presence in the warp
Get the fuck out and take your shit thread with you

>the lore is better,

A lazy copy paste of the Tomb Kings is not better.

Eldar got to be vastly different than their Elven counterparts. Necrons? Nope. They copypasted the Tomb Kings but forget to add dignity and majesty of the Tomb King. What we got was a parody of the Tomb Kings that's is a bastardization of what they represent. I have no idea why they choose to make the Necron so overly silly and cartoonish in their characterization. Who were they trying to appeal to? preschoolers?

>>49931386
Newcrons where the only positive change from Ward (fluff wise)

>>49931465
But Necrons has a small spoor of suppressed emotion hanging on their metallic frames.

Also the Necrons and C'tan are said to project psychic shadows into the warp that can unsettle psykers and in the case of the C'tan drown out the Golden Light of Terra.

>>49931482
You

see

>>49931467
I disagree.

It was an effortless job of a hack.

>>49931506
Don't be stupid. Newcron lore makes for a better faction to paint play and build. Oldcron lore is alright as a backdrop plot point like Nids or Chaos

>>49930298
They're fine as is.

>>49931565
>Newcron lore makes for a better faction to paint play and build.

But it's bad and a lazy hack job. The two are not mutually exclusive.

>>49931597
I don't think your opinion has any weight since we are discussing 40k. They might be ripped off and adjusted to fit the setting but what hasn't been in setting? They're still coolio

>>49931434
Well, for starters, you said nothing about changing up the old lore. So, I assumed we'd be sticking with the retarded origin story for the Necrons, which is basically the tale of how 4 dumbfuck Not!Chaos gods got tricked into eating all their brothers, after turning a whooe race into spoopy skeletons. These are also the same C'tan who get fucked by like, 3 Land Raiders, or 12 Carnifexes.

I'm not against the C'tan, you know, being actually interesting, but the C'tan were never more than a shallow, muddied concept of what could be called back groud characters, whose concept was so vague and boring that the authors couldn't even decide between them eating souls and them eating "Bio-Energy". If Oldcrons were to come back, they should just abbandon the retarded spooky "le eldritch" gods, because all they do is ruin the setting for the rest of the Factions, insert their bullshit plans into everything, take credit for every little thing that goes on, ruin the tone and theme of their own faction,>>49931465
and in general, act more like children than millenia old beings.

>>49931467
Because they were trying to appeal to people who like having the option to have more than four armies to choose from, and whose color scheme and background was pretty much set in stone. Say what you will about the Newcrons lore and it similarties with tomb kings, but at least it allows the player some agency when it comes to their creating spoopy skele-bots. Even Tyranids, whose entire schtick could be summed up in the word "Eat", are a more intresting and customizable army than the Oldcrons, lore wise. Is it a perfect background? No, but its better than the vague mess of lore that was the Oldcrons background.

>>49930298
Necrons are easy to counter, just use plasma.

>>49931626
I am discussing a 40K setting faction and my opinion has weight.

Because when GW ripped off other settings, they made an effort to make their characters and factions distinct and unique.

In the case of the Newcrons, they ripped off themselves and made no effort to make the Necrons distinct and unique to the Tomb Kings in a way similar to how the Eldar factions are utterly different from their Elven counterparts.

This leads to the conclusion that it was a lazy hack job done with minimal effort.

>>49931432
>those rods

Why?

>>49931678
Which is better than a faction created with exactly, no more and no less than, zero effort. Oldcrons sucked. Necrons have a nice place in 40k now and are fun to play in tabletop.

>>49930298
revert lore back to oldcrons. Adjust gauss rules and general unit tankyness then move the lore up a little. New pariah units, a special character or something. Necrons where always more defined by their background and the implications they had for the greater universe

>>49931636
>Well, for starters, you said nothing about changing up the old lore.

You are talking to another guy.

The whole C'tan on the TT can be fixed easily by what I just said.

>If Oldcrons were to come back, they should just abbandon the retarded spooky "le eldritch" gods, because all they do is ruin the setting for the rest of the Factions,

No, fuck that. Fantasy has tons of deities and many of them sphere of influence or obsessions. I don't see anyone calling the other gods "Not C'tan Gods".

> insert their bullshit plans into everything, take credit for every little thing that goes on, ruin the tone and theme of their own faction

But you are okay with Chaos being behind everything like it is now?

>and in general, act more like children than millenia old beings.

But you are okay with the Chaos Gods being like children and literally described as man children toying with the races of the galaxy as playthings.

Seems to me you are biased.

>Because they were trying to appeal to people who like having the option to have more than four armies to choose from, and whose color scheme and background was pretty much set in stone

And this couldn't have been done without making them silly bunny eared cartoon characters? They couldn't have been written with a little dignity instead of lousy caricatures of the Tomb Kings. The guy who wrote the Newcrons had zero respect to the faction or its ripped off parent.

>but at least it allows the player some agency when it comes to their creating spoopy skele-bots

And again this couldn't have been done without going the ultra lazy route?

The Necrons had speaking and thinking lords (xenology/Herald of the Storm). This could have been expanded on, instead of destroying the foundations of a faction and replacing it with a hack job geared seemingly towards children.

>>49931780

"Not Chaos Gods"*

>Is it a perfect background? No

Then I ask you not to say it doesn't need fixing. It needs plenty of fixing. The themes and behavior of the Newcrons are inconsistent jarring mess that doesn't know what it wants to be. GW wants to go with the horrifying undead menace angle but it falls on its face when the Necrons are looney tune characters.

>>49931715
Actually, the Oldcrons have more effort in them than the newcrons.

The Oldcrons at least were different and unique than their fantasy inspiration (Tomb Kings) and their backstory set them apart from their movie inspiration.

The Newcrons like I said are a carbon copy of the Tomb Kings but somehow they forgot what made the Tomb Kings great during the hackjob.

Now we have an army whose fluff and direction is a mess.

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I still didn't get a straight answer for this question.

Why were they, Necrons, written with copious silliness and cheesiness? What was the thought processes behind it all?

I open any of the Imperial codexes and I see nothing of that sort or level. I open the Tyranid dex and nothing remotely similar is found. I open the Eldar dexes and it's a straight faced telling of a tragic race.

Only the Ork codex approaches the silliness of the Newcrons. And this puzzles me to no end. Why, oh, why did some look at (picture related) and went "Lets make them as wacky and silly as logically possible". The Orks are a comedy relief race that can be excused but why Newcrons why?

>>49931839
>at least they were unique

If your standard is uniqueness you're gonna get some shitty stuff, man. It's the way the content is presented, not the idea itself

The fluff fits the setting and the direction is as sloppily handwaved as every other faction. I thought it was like a staple to the setting. Like a signature or watermark

>>49931903
Bad bait

>>49931939
It's ain't bait. It's a legitimate question.

And the fluff is an eyesore in the setting because it lacks direction and a coherent theme like the other factions.

>Fetch me another plaything. This one seems to have broken.

-Urien Rakarth, Master Haemonculus (3th ED codex

"I'm done with this one, fetch me another!"

-Illuminator Szeras (Conquest)

Newcron writers are truly talented.

>>49931993
I don't think you've even opened the new codices.

Either way elaborate on the sillyness and post examples will you? I honestly wanna see what other people think is silly about the faction

I'd say the theme is ascension and ruination.

>>49932063
Trazyn for example who goes from one silly villain trope to the next.

>I'd say the theme is ascension and ruination.

reaching really hard there.

>>49931839
>The Newcrons like I said are a carbon copy of the Tomb Kings
Are they? I don't know tomb kings enough I guess.

However I do know oldcron, and they were incredibly lazy. It was basically >Imply the codex and it was clear they had no ideas where they were going. I think that's actually why there is nostalgia about them, people filled the gaps with their own headcanon, making them much more interesting than they actually were.

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>>49932094
Look at these. Truly they are unknowable ancient horrors from beyond time!

>>49932094
Yeah, Trazyn is funny. Is it the senile thing? Robots having mental illness being too silly? I'd agree if this wasn't 40k and space Marines didn't eat brains to steal memories.

I'm not reaching. Betrayal is in there with naivity turning to wisdom and another theme that just slipped my mind but you get the point.

>>49931903
>I open the Eldar dexes and it's a straight faced telling of a tragic race.
Unless you're reading the Covens supplement or some of the stuff in the main DE codex, in which case it's all laid out as a hilarious trolling caper.

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>>49932113
Actually, I liked the elment of menace and in-verse mystery about them. Things that the bombastic Newcrons lack. Newrons are not menacing and it's partly the fault of writing them to being too damn human.

Again with the bloody laziness. Tau and Eldar writers like Gav Thrope and Andy Chambers take efforts to make the Eldar seem alien. Newcrons? No effort is made by the design studio. Only one author weakly tried in the "SoB : Devourer" novella by making sign language a part of Necron discourse due to the fact that they cannot evoke or express emotion but alas this got ignored by the design team.

>>49932117
Is this Old or New?

either way it makes me smile

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>>49931219
>robo bobs
It's FUCKING MECHAGRUNTY

>>49932127
>I'd agree if this wasn't 40k and space Marines didn't eat brains to steal memories.

False equivalence. Space Marines are played out as straight. This is just a fact of their gruesome biology and it opened way for the formation of cannibalistic practices among many chapters. It's not meant to make you laugh. When we see marines eat brains we are suppose to get disgusted and see him suffer through a unpleasant experience.

You seem to think we are in Rogue Trader. We are not and copious silliness is not welcome where it doesn't belong.

>>49932133
Not to the extent of the Newcrons. It's just a part of their faction not the overwhelming majority.

Another problem with the Necrons is that if you switched names of their lore pieces just a bit, you cannot tell if they are Eldar or Necrons.

Why do oldcronfags always bring up the Egyptian thing again Necrons?
Necrons have always had Egyptian elements, and the one blatant element 5e added was the title of Phaeron which is fucking nothing.

Commence the Saturday Cartoon shenanigans

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>>49932221
forgot my picture.

>>49932219
Tomb Kings, not Egyptians, you dolt.

The Newcrons overdid it with the Tomb King inspiration from the aesthetics to their whole lore.

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>>49932200
>40k is supposed to be taken seriously

There's your problem. Some things are meant to be taken seriously. Some things are not. SMs eating brains? That is not. You can convince yourself otherwise, but you look like an asshat with a double standard.

NECRON LETDOWN THREAD
After years of ignoring the coolest subversive faction in 40K, gamers are handed another half baked codex by GW.

The necron hierarchy seems to be backwards for some reason. The concept is overwhelmed with newcrons which always looked awkward and marginal. Flayed Ones are almost absent with initial skeleton recruits completely missing from the troop list. No place for a small scale insurgency in this troop list. Another GW play to use troop lists and rules to effect the sales of expensive elite troop types. All we wanted was robot skeletons with vehicles that worked differently to others. And worst of all, no Pariahs.

Everything looks like it came from the Necron box, with only a big pyramid and some Crypteks added.
Did I mention it is poorly written?

May we all join together in giving GW another big FUCK YOU. When are these people going to start making decent games again.

>>49932245
>The Newcrons overdid it with the Tomb King inspiration from the aesthetics to their whole lore.

No they didn't.
Tomb Kings and Necron lore is similar only in that they are undead egyptians.

>Trazyn strode away, his staff clicking sharply with each step. He walked his halls, past countless other displays with primitive creatures of every description, breed and race; all arrayed and carefully posed; all living, trapped until the end of time. He passed beings that had died out half a million years earlier – some whose loss was mourned by the galaxy at large, and others that had simply disappeared without note.

>There were hundreds of displays on this deck alone, many of them far grander than his latest, humble effort. Thousands more decks lay above and below.

>Trazyn gave them no more thought. His mind was already moving on to his next project.

>He rubbed his metal hands in glee. It would be a masterpiece.

-Infinite Tableau

Literally freaking rubbing his hands and twirling his non-existent mustache. What a fucking cliche.

The complete lack of sensible units is devastating. Is it that difficult for GW to put forth a striped down robot skeleton with reasonable equipment options? Come on, give people a chance to show that basic skeletons can actually fuck up you nationalistic power gamers. Is GW so afraid that someone with basic necron troop might actually defeat Space Marines using tactics? OH THE HORROR

Oh well I guess GW will just dictate whatever fluff makes the most profit for them and trash decades of previous lore.

Never mind that the scale of a 40K battle would totally accommodate the size of a 1st generation C'tan.

Playing necrons as they are in the codex always puts them in the position of initiating the conflict. What about the Imperium actively engaging these skeletons on a scale that isn't a hopeless apocalyptic endgame.

NO NO NO, that might be a skirmish scale game that would be fun and provide room for a continuing narrative.

I do take a step back sometimes and wonder where GW went so horribly wrong.

WAKE UP CALL! Necrons have always been SKELETONS! Where the fuck are the SKELETONS?

Simple point, nothing extreme. Just conceded the fact that GW isn't interested in versatile troop profiles that that can challenge elite units and are hard to copyright

>>49932252
40K has been serious and was presented as serious since 3th ED and up.

Marines eating brains like I said isn't portrayed in the fluff as something not serious or funny.

In fact, whenever a marine does it it's portrayed as something gruesome and mournful. For example the short story "Wolf Mother".

You obviously are not versed in 40K and have a real double standard. So politely piss off with your anime pictures and non-arguments.

>>49932281
>Playing necrons as they are in the codex always puts them in the position of initiating the conflict.

In what way?

>What about the Imperium actively engaging these skeletons on a scale that isn't a hopeless apocalyptic endgame.

That happens though.

>>49932266
Trazyn is quite literally the best thing about the Newcrons. Stay forever mad.

>>49932219
I don't think it's the egyptian aesthetics that disturbs so much (though they did lose some of the terminator/skeleton theme with it, the fancier a robot gets the less spooky it becomes IMO) but rather the "egyptian dynasties and their courts" aspect. I already have at least three factions full of plotting nobles ruling over unenlightened masses (DE, Imperium, Chaos, and even Tau according to some fluff, like the water caste backstabbing a fire caste commander in last chancers) the new necrons didnt bring anything new to the table.

>>49932297
You know that it's not unreasonable to expect the company you're paying a ridiculous amount of money to to do something

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>>49931386
>Literally retarded. Because "Oh geeeee Wilikers! The or reality warping, super god C'tan just got nailed with a few Lascannons, and died! But dont worry, its just as planned~" is sooooo muh better, am I right?
You sound like a faggot, speak straight anon.
>c'tan's living metal suit dies to some Laz fire,
>complaining about power levels to fluff given it's 40k
>>just as planed.
You are an over dramatic meme faggot.
Stop it.

>>We are talking about the same race of spooky robo men who look like Skeletons, right?
Yes and you clearly don't know what pariahs.
are

>>And speaking of Skeletons, can we all agree that the Unit selection for oldcrons was sooo diverse?
eventhing i read of your make anon sounds like some fucking tumblr faggot, speak straight before i get the belt.

>>complaining about the unit diversity of a 20 year old codex.
Ever look at the dark eldar codex from 3nd? 15 units, one's a troop in a transport and another's incubus that has to be a with an archon. Space yiffs from 2nd ed arethe same.
Point being these armies fell by the wayside and were never updated meaning they never got other units.
Complaining about a lack of units in the old cron is like complaining that an old man can't win a marathon

>>Man, weren't Oldcrons the coolest?
Yes, I can sit down with the codex and get a cohesive feel from the 3rd edition. the fluff and design were written by a group of BL and support writers working in tandem.
There was a sense of foreboding and necrons played like a implacable advance, slow powerful and their basic troop could blow up a land raider.
That was cool.

>>49932307
They have done something though.
Necrons do not need to initiate a conflict.
The Imperium can engage the Necrons in something less than an apocalypse.

>>49932262
>Tomb Kings and Necron lore is similar only in that they are undead egyptians.

Dynasties, literally tomb kings, a caste of engineers and court vizers, Imotekh is Not-Settra, etc.

Look up the lore before talking out of your ass.

>>49932298
He is not a "Necron character". He is a Dark Eldar character wrapped in mental.

I mean fuck man the Dark Eldar collectors were mentioned in 5th ED DE dex before the Necron dex came out. And the DE invented body switching before the Newcrons can along.

>>49932342
metal*

came*

>>49932324
>Dynasties, literally tomb kings

You mean, literally Egyptians.

>engineers and court vizers

Like Egyptians.

>Imotekh is Not-Settra

He really is not Settra. Settra is like the God King of the Tomb Kings, the first and greatest founder of the nation.
Imotekh is a famed general who seized control of his dynasty from his feuding superiors. He seeks to unite the Necron dynasty under him.

Settra and Imotekh are similar only in that they are conquers.

>>49932320
>Necrons do not need to initiate a conflict.

Name a single example where the Necrons didn't initiate conflict with the Imperium as in the Imperials being the aggressors.

>>49932342
>He is not a "Necron character".
Sorry to tell you buddy but youre wrong. I'd reccommend a dose of "being less mad". Should fix you right up.

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>>49932296
It's still displayed as a hyperbole that the reader is supposed to find either tragic or funny that the character in setting think that eating brains is okay. Fuck off with your interpretation's, shitty reading comprehension and arguments about opinion and taste when you have none.

what kind of fucker doesn't like anime girls. Unless of course you now see your flawed argument and unwarranted butthirt after witnessing the smug face of a Japanese cartoon girl

>>49931274
>Remove all the newcron space egyptians shit
Anon, the oldcron had flying pyramids as their main vehicle and scarabs of various sizes. They were always space egyptians.

>>49932363
>Egyptians

Like Tomb Kings.

>Imotekh is a famed general who seized control of his dynasty from his feuding superiors. He seeks to unite the Necron dynasty under him.

Exactly. He is the commander character that never lost a war and seeks to unite his faction under him. He is Settra before he became a king of Khemri.

Newcron lore is shit imo, but it doesn't bother me. What keeps me away from Necrons are the disgusting vehicles. GW just can't into vehicles anymore.
I can't even remember 5 good new vehicles released since 4th.
Good:
>onager
>skitarii dragoon
Mediocre:
>that chaos dragon
>genestealer cult car

The recent Ork mechs are good kits but hardly something new. The 2 tanks on the other hand are shit...

>>49932368
He really isn't. He is an Eldar character is disguise. There isn't a single part of his character that makes him Necton-ish.

>>49932376
>It's still displayed as a hyperbole that the reader is supposed to find either tragic or funny that the character in setting think that eating brains is okay. Fuck off with your interpretation's, shitty reading comprehension and arguments about opinion and taste when you have none.

Nope, you didn't read the text so you cannot form an opinion it. You are willing a faulty assessment based on noting but your bias.

I guess that makes it a a non-argument.

"setting think that eating brains is okay"

I think I should author "eating brains" fallacy today

>>49932380
The Newcrons overdid it. Look at how the Newcrons lords look for god's sake.

The Eldar are inspired by celts. I don't see them going overboard with it. Do you see Eldar wearing skirts?

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And like the cpainfully cliche villain he is, Trazyn must be defeated by the heroes.

But don't worry, like any cartoon villain, Trazyn will return with a half baked plan.....

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>>49932429
....that will blow up in his face.

>>49932117
Damn. That's some lukewarm piss.

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If I didn't tell you that this was a Necron party, would you have guessed that this was Necron related?

My bet is on no.

It's hard to tell Eldar and Necron lore apart these days.

>>49932383
>Like Tomb Kings.

Necrons have always been Egyptian.
Necrons have always been like Tomb Kings.
So stop levelling this as a criticism of Necrons if you're defending oldcrons.

>Exactly. He is the commander character that never lost a war

Imotekh is not said to have never lost a war.
It's even question whether his military brilliance is his own, or a side affect of his brain getting fucked during the great sleep.

> He is Settra before he became a king of Khemri.

This would make him a different character than Settra, but then it's not exactly true. Settra united the kingdom before he died and did so again afterwards. Imotekh is only stepping up in his undeath.

A Settra clone would have to be the first Silent King, rather than a general of a dynasty.

>>49932483
Oldcrons were ham fisted, boring and had no personality. Nothing was worse than playing against necrons as it was the same everytime. Everytime it was the same list with the same paint job.

If your this ass pained just create you own dynasty that seeks to restore a c'tan and is all boring and silent.

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>>49932405
Says the Anon talking out their ass about Necron and Tomb King lore

no more (you)s

>>49932342
>He is not a "Necron character". He is a Dark Eldar character wrapped in mental.

He's a mad scientist character.

>the DE invented body switching before the Newcrons can along.

Necrons have held that aspect for longer than the Dark Eldar. Dark Eldar didn't resurrect before 5e.

>>49932524
>If your this ass pained just create you own dynasty that seeks to restore a c'tan and is all boring and silent.

Can't. Anti-C'tan Protocols.

Also like I said, Oldcrons had room for personality expansion ( see Xenology) which had been better than what we got from the Newcrons whose lore is geared towards children seemingly.

>>49932508
>So stop levelling this as a criticism of Necrons if you're defending oldcrons.

Again, the Oldcrons were minimal with the tomb king inspiration while the Newcrons took it to the logical extreme.

>It's even question whether his military brilliance is his own, or a side affect of his brain getting fucked during the great sleep.

He is said to be most accomplished general ever to walk the galaxy. This sets this question to rest. And as long as his enemies use logic, they cannot defeat him in war.

>A Settra clone would have to be the first Silent King, rather than a general of a dynasty.


IIRC, Settra was one of the Kings of Khemri before he began his conquest of the great Land and unification of his people. Imotekh is on the same path as mortal Settra they just skipped him towards undeath.

>>49932529
Shush, adults are talking.

>>49932577
>He's a mad scientist character.

Trazyn is not a scientist. In fact, (barring maybe Anrakyr) all Necron royalty are scientifically illiterate.

But that irrelevant. Dark Eldar collectors appeared in the fluff first. Trazyn stole their shtick.

>Necrons have held that aspect for longer than the Dark Eldar. Dark Eldar didn't resurrect before 5e.

Necron phased out and repaired their bodies.

Dark Eldar transferred their souls/minds into new fresh bodies.

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>literally "you have failed me for the last time"

Even Chaos grew out of this cartoonish trope. Newcron writers are such a joy. This was painful to read with Chaos when a commander wastes an individual like that. It's extra painful with the Necrons who have no way to replace sentient Necrons should they perish.

There is no way to fix a faction of skeleton robots. The are, and always have been, painfully boring. And the C'tan has to be some of the worst 40k fluff of all time.

I guess the fix would be to roll skeleton androids back into Chaos. But I don't think that fits current fluff.

>>49932617
>Again, the Oldcrons were minimal

They were not.
>Pyramids
>Scarabs
>Death
>Ancientness
>Royalty

Lets not forget the Jackal god and Kaelis'RA. Oldcrons were as subtle as a brick to the head.

>He is said to be most accomplished general ever to walk the galaxy.

He is now. Doesn't change the question of his former capabilities.

> And as long as his enemies use logic, they cannot defeat him in war.

They can, see Helbrecht taking his ship.

>Imotekh is on the same path as mortal Settra they just skipped him towards undeath.

Right, so they are characters with different pasts and different presents with goals of conquest. They're not the same.

>>49932734
At this point I would rather much rather they deleted the Newcrons all together rather than allowing them to soil the setting by their presence. They are already sidelined and rendered irrelevant in the setting, having no End Times plotlines or crucial input in the setting. Removing would be so easy.

>>49932759
They were compared to the Newcrons

>Royalty

Aside from being led by "lords" we didn't know much about the Necron governance other than the fact that most lords are mindless and they were ruled by the C'tan.

>Jackal god and Kaelis'RA

Eldar names for two C'tan. Eldar are Egyptian inspired also so their naming conventions falls on them, not the Necrons.

The only named C'tan during the Oldcron times was the Deceiver whom the Necrontyr called Mephet'ran the Messenger. Sounds like Greek inspired to me.

>He is now.

He always is and was.

The text says clearly he is the most accomplished general the galaxy EVER known. This kills the question.

>>49932892
cont'ed.

>They can, see Helbrecht taking his ship.

The fight wasn't logical.

Imotekh is said to can be only be defeated if you challenged him to personal combat or went full retard.

Helbrecht did both at the same time.

>Right, so they are characters with different pasts and different presents with goals of conquest. They're not the same.

Same role in the setting, though.

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People complained about "We will be back" but what about this (picture related)?

>Bwahahahaha

Defend this.

>>49932892
>They were compared to the Newcrons

They were not. Not even Newcrons introduced scarabs and attack Pyramids.

>Eldar names for two C'tan.

Used in and introduced by oldcron lore.

>He always is and was.

He is now.

>The fight wasn't logical.

It was. Ambushes are perfectly logical.

>Same role in the setting, though.

Nope. Settra is ruler of the Tomb Kings and generally content to rule Khemri.
Imotekh is a head of one faction of Necrons and is leading a wave of conquest that reaches out into the galaxy.

>>49932976
>Defend this.

The game is not meant to be completely serious.
Warhammer can be fun too.

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>>49932979
>They were not. Not even Newcrons introduced scarabs and attack Pyramids.

But they introduced the dynastic system and compare the dress of the Necron Lord and the Overlords. Also look at the Crypteks and their silly beards.

>Used in and introduced by oldcron lore.

Still Eldar names. The Necron names for the C'tan weren't Egyptian inspired.

>He is now.

"The galaxy ever known" implies otherwise. Imotekh has been awake for like 200+. I find it hard to believe what he did in that short span made him the best accomplished general ever compared to generals who have been fighting for thousands of years (Abaddon, any Eldar Autarch).

>It was. Ambushes are perfectly logical.

It wasn't. He ambushed Imotekh's ship right in the middle of the heart of the Sautekh dynasty. A stone throw away from its capital. Stormed the ship and demanded a duel.

It's like assaulting a Blackship in the Sol System near Mars and Terra.

>Nope. Settra is ruler of the Tomb Kings and generally content to rule Khemri.

What? Settra launched invasions at Bret land and by the end of the timeline he was going to lead his armies to conquer the whole world.

> leading a wave of conquest that reaches out into the galaxy.

Replaced this with world and you got...

Exactly what Settra desired and was going to do before Nagash invaded

>>49933053
Then find me something similarly unprofessional in any other codex. I'll wait on baited breath.

>>49932976
>People complained about "We will be back"
I sure as hell didn't.

>>49933101
I also miss Marbo...

>>49933093
>But they introduced the dynastic system

And there was already royalty.

>Still Eldar names.

That doesn't matter. They were created for use in Necron lore, because Jackals and Ra bring to mind Egypt.

>"The galaxy ever known" implies otherwise.

No it doesn't. The greatest something ever known can be a modern day something.

>It wasn't.

It was. Infiltration and assassination are perfectly logical.

>What?

Settra generally sat around and only went out to avenge wrongs done to him.

>Exactly what Settra desired

Both desire conquest. So does Abaddon.
So does Kang the Conquer. So do a great many people.

Imotekh is much more active in his attempts of conquest than Settra however.

>>49933101
Black Templars had the holy hand grenade from Monty Python.

>>49933188
>Infiltration and assassination against an enemy with superior cloaking tech, scanner tech, massively better ships, a means to simply resurrect even if you assassinate them and the fact that even if something goes slightly wrong you're pretty much left in the water with hungry sharks, is logical

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>still taking Carnac's bait

>>49933223
>Ambushing an enemy who is superior in straight warfare is ILLOGICAL REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>49933276
>Ambushing is now a blanket term that totally justifies everything you do because you got the drop on 'em, right?
>Doesn't matter if it's in the void where they'll definitely spot us before we get to make our attack, right?
>It's not like alerting the superior forces to our position by proxy of approach method negates the point of an ambush, right?

Meme-tier tactica you got there, Anon.

>>49933321
>It couldn't possibly be an ambush because imagine it happened in empty space and so the Necrons saw them coming for days!
>Even though it was an ambush it can't be an ambush!
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>49933370
But it did happen in empty space, more-or-less, Anon. This is space, where modern day scanners can detect a radio with the power of a refrigerator from millions of km away, against Necrons, who have the best ship-based tech out there and would paste Imperial ships if they were ready at all.

Not to mention another failure to recognise that ambush isn't a blanket justification and can just as easily be a retarded proposition depending on circumstances.

Now tell me, under what circumstances is it a logical ambush if there's a high chance your enemy, who bears a superior force, will be aware of your position and be capable of readying themselves before you arrive? Before considering the actual outcome of the story, consider the idea in itself (as we're discussing tactics over outcome here considering the conversation.)

>>49933188
>And there was already royalty.

Were they how do you know?

>That doesn't matter. They were created for use in Necron lore, because Jackals and Ra bring to mind Egypt.

Does the Imperials calling Nid fleets with biblical names means they are biblical?

>No it doesn't. The greatest something ever known can be a modern day something.

It's not in this case because Imotekh conquered just a few hundreds of worlds since his awakening. Abaddon conquered thousands in a few years in each Black Crusade.

>It was. Infiltration and assassination are perfectly logical.

Not in this situation and whereabouts.The risks outweigh the gains. Even victory was worthless since it wouldnt do lasting damage to the Necrons since Imotekh's remains would teleport to the nearest tomb ship or heck his capital world. The ship that Imotekh
>Settra generally sat around and only went out to avenge wrongs done to him.

He tried his hand at invasions a few times and his entire thing was preparing for the Reich I mean reign of 1 million years which meant his global invasion.

>Both desire conquest. So does Abaddon.

Abaddon is an avenger type character.

Imotekh and Settra's foremost element of their personalities is hunger for conquest.

>>49933442
The ship that Imotekh lost would be replaced in a short time considering what we know about Cenoptek scarabs*

>>49933413
>But it did happen in empty space, more-or-less, Anon.

Prove it.

>Now tell me, under what circumstances is it a logical ambush if there's a high chance your enemy, who bears a superior force, will be aware of your position and be capable of readying themselves before you arrive?

Again, prove that it would easy to detect them and ready themselves. It obviously ended up not being very easy.

>>49933442
>Were they how do you know?

Lords.

>Does the Imperials calling Nid fleets with biblical names means they are biblical?

In a sense yes. Mostly though they are named after giant monsters.

>It's not in this case because Imotekh conquered just a few hundreds of worlds since his awakening.

So? Quantity is not everything, by displaying superior skill he could prove himself the better general.

>Not in this situation and whereabouts.The risks outweigh the gains.

Does it though?

>Even victory was worthless since it wouldnt do lasting damage to the Necrons since Imotekh's remains would teleport to the nearest tomb ship or heck his capital world.

Necrons can be permanently killed though, it's not outside the Imperium's capabilities either.

>He tried his hand at invasions a few times

Right, but generally he sat around while Imotekh has totally bent his will to conquest. Settra is much more passive where Imotekh is aggressive.

>Abaddon is an avenger type character.

Abaddon wants to rule.

>Imotekh and Settra's foremost element of their personalities is hunger for conquest.

Right, they both like to conquer. Countless characters share this trait. Their goals are similar, but their past and present situations are different.

>>49933570
>Prove it

Okay, it was in space, the void, literally nowhere to hide unless you go silent running behind something and wait for them to get close, which relies on you capably predicting ships that don't need to function in the same way Imperial ones do with their travelling, thanks to Inertialess Drives and Dolemn Gateways.

>Prove it would be easy to detect them

Tau, Eldar and Necron sensors have been shown before to detect Imperial vessels from ages away in space, we know Necrons have better tech than Tau so they presumably have better scanners. We also know that they have advanced AI so they don't need to spend ten minutes telling their dudes to get combat stations ready. If you also want a real-world comparison just look up anything about discussions in 'stealth and detection in space'.

You can't consider the outcome of one particular story, especially considering 40k's inconsistency, as anything but secondary backing for argument as a trend. You're not just arguing that what the BT did was logical, you're arguing that it's logical to try and sneak up on something in space with massively better scanners than you, without a dedicated stealth ship, with the enemy possessing a superior vessel, risking your lives in the process even though anything you could destroy if it goes right will simply be rebuilt.

Why are people actually defending all the mystery and menace of the Necrons being removed?

>>49933701
>Okay, it was in space, the void, literally nowhere to hide

Except there's stuff in space. You can imagine that it happened in a pure empty void but that does not make it so.

>>49933753
Necrons didn't have mystery or menace.

>>49933782
Not a lot of stuff in space, though, it's far apart and even then you'd have to somehow know where the opponent ship is while keeping yourself hidden, with similar obstructions, despite you having inferior scanners.

You can pretend space is full of cover and it's anything but ridiculously difficult to reliably ambush with a non-stealth ship against superior sensors, but that does not make it so.

>>49933658
>Lords.

Name given to them by non-Necrons. C'tan handed ranks and favor to those loyal to them. There wasn't any royalty in the Oldcrons that we knew of.

>In a sense yes.

Or it's just reflection of the culture that's doing the naming.

>So? Quantity is not everything, by displaying superior skill he could prove himself the better general.

It doesn't say better. Most accomplished.

Accomplishment implies quantity. Having more victories and glories than his counterparts. Abaddon has accomplished more than Imotekh in a single Black Crusade than Imotekh ever did in 200 years of campaigning.

>Does it though?

Yep.

>Necrons can be permanently killed though, it's not outside the Imperium's capabilities either.

Inside their revivification chambers, yes. Or if they were blasted by vortex weapons. The Black Templar were lacking those factors and their high Marshall was beating on Imotekh with a sword something that never perma-killed a Necron.

>Settra is much more passive where Imotekh is aggressive.

Not by his choosing, IIRC.

>Abaddon wants to rule.

Vengeance for the defeat of Horus is what he wants the most. Rulership is later.

>>49933795
Yes they did, its absurd to pretend otherwise. They actually felt like something alien and mysterious from the past that is waking up. Giving them 'personality' did not improve them at all, its as idiotic as giving the Tyranids personality.

And the general aesthetic of the models was superior back then.

>>49933805
>Not a lot of stuff in space, though

There's lots in space.
Planets, stars, asteroids, massive clouds of gas and liquid, radiation. It might be impossible to hide in most areas of space but that doesn't mean you can't hide a space ship anywhere.

>You can pretend space is full of cover

Except I don't need too. All there needs to be is somewhere where there is some form of cover.

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>>49933101
>unprofessional

I don't even know what this means in this context. But I'm 99% sure 40k isn't what you think it is. Pic related is 40k.

>>49933864
>Yes they did

No they didn't.

>They actually felt like something alien and mysterious from the past that is waking up.

Except they weren't alien or mysterious at all.
They were motivated by the fear of death, jealousy and hate. That's not alien, that's human 101.
As for mysterious we knew their entire backstory.

What should we do to fix orks? I mean, they're just orcs in space.

What should we do to fix Chaos? I mean, it's just Chaos in space.

What should we do to fix Dark Eldar? I mean, they're just Dark Elves in space.

>>49933896
>There's lots in space

Depending on how you quantify lots, but there's a massive amount of space between scanner-obstructions in any statistical average, we're talking hundreds of thousands of km at best unless you specifically go for a densely packed phenomena, at which point you still have to spot a ship before they spot yours despite you having inferior sensors. Even after that you need to pick somewhere to find cover where the enemy is explicitly going to go, something that you likely can only predict with vessels of similar function, otherwise you'd take far too long to reach them and the cover wouldn't let you get the practical drop on them in the first place.

It's not an impossible feat, but it's incredibly risky, which, considering the small reward of delaying the Necrons with it, was basically a prime example of incompetent or illogical tactics. It's gambling some of your most important pieces on a mission that has a high chance of failure in order to temporarily knock some of the opponent's out of action.

>>49933825
>Name given to them by non-Necrons.

It's still Necron lore. Why don't you understand this? It was still created for Necrons.

>Or it's just reflection of the culture that's doing the naming.

Because humans in 40k read the bible?

>Accomplishment implies quantity.

No it doesn't. Not even a little. What's more of an accomplishment, untying a hundred pairs of shoes or the gordian knot?

>Inside their revivification chambers, yes.

Or with anti phasic bolts, or with stasis fields, or if the Necron simply malfunctions.

>Not by his choosing, IIRC.

Totally by his choosing, nothing stops him from sallying out. He casually goes to Norsca for payback once.
Imotekh is more aggressive in his actions, accept this.

>Vengeance for the defeat of Horus is what he wants the most. Rulership is later.

He wishes to rule and hates Horus.

>>49933978
>Depending on how you quantify lots, but there's a massive amount of space between scanner-obstructions in any statistical average

Nobody is talking about a statistical average, retard, we're talking about if shit exists in space that can obscure you. It does.

>but it's incredibly risky

You have no basis to say that.

>>49934048
>Nobody is talking about a statistical average, retard

Oh, I thought we were talking about tactics, which has a basis in statistical and practical likelyhoods. Unless, of course, you're suggesting that the Black Templars knew the playing field before they decided to go after Imhotek, which is another matter entirely.

>You have no basis to say that.

Except for everything I've just said, what with you relying on cover even though you have to manage to detect a superior scanner vessel before they detect you, have to accurately predict their line of travel through a system despite somewhat different methods of movement and such requirements, you have to then decently accurately track sed ship's position with your own cover blocking you as much as them, and then, after all that, there's still the pseduo-random factor of them never straying close enough for your hard-found cover to ever really be of much use.

Sounds like a risky playing field to me.

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>>49932420
>The Newcrons overdid it. Look at how the Newcrons lords look for god's sake.
No arguments there. Oldcron simplicity was kind of a charm in the face of every other faction being overdesigned. Yes, even the Eldar, albeit in a different way. Eldar are "throw as many cultures as we can into a blender, then chuck the result through a rainbow and see what comes out."

>>49932483
Did the oldcron even have any lore told from their perspective?

>>49932617
>Also like I said, Oldcrons had room for personality expansion ( see Xenology)
What we see of the Necron in xenology is so vastly different from anything in the codex, I wonder just what the hell the author was thinking when he was writing it.

>>49934021
>It's still Necron lore. Why don't you understand this? It was still created for Necrons.

Irrelevant. A lot of terminology was invented for various elements of 40K. If it doesn't come from the faction itself then it has no bearing on it.

>Because humans in 40k read the bible?

Yesh, the bible is mentioned a few times.

>No it doesn't. Not even a little. What's more of an accomplishment, untying a hundred pairs of shoes or the gordian knot?

Uniting Chaos under his banner thirteen times and conquering thousands of worlds. A feat greater than anything Imotekh did in 200 years.

>Or with anti phasic bolts

Weren't invented yet and we just saw the Deathwatch use them and nobody else.

>with stasis fields

Weren't with the High Marshal and I don't think we have an example of them being deployed on Necrons.

>if the Necron simply malfunctions.

Unlikely to happen to a Phaeron who have the best bodies and best maintenance.

The Templar came in unprepared to permanently kill Imotekh.

>He wishes to rule and hates Horus.

Well, his Wotdm says he is driven by revenge. Him wanting to rule is always mention in an afterthought after the revenge thing.

>>49931695
E- Everyone can p-paint, right guys? Guys?

>>49934130
>Oh, I thought we were talking about tactics

We are.

>which has a basis in statistical and practical likelyhoods.

People pick their battlefields. Most battles would happen in the ocean if we were just picking random points on the surface of the Earth.

>Unless, of course, you're suggesting that the Black Templars knew the playing field before they decided to go after Imhotek

Of course they did, you usually have to pick an area to ambush someone. Did you think maybe they were just crusing through space and accidentally bumped into him?

>Except for everything I've just said

Which is all meaningless and you imagining the battle takes place in a perfect vacuum.

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>>49934286
>Helbrecht, aboard his Battle Barge Sigismund, later sought revenge for his humiliation by attacking Imotekh's Tomb Ship Inevitable Conqueror while in route to Davatas. Boarding Torpedo attacks by the Black Templars succeeded in capturing the ship and Helbrecht and the Stormlord come to blows once more, but this time the Marshal is able to use his rekindled faith to prevail. Realizing the battle is lost, Imotekh teleports to a nearby escort vessel to safety, but not before congratulating Helbrecht on 'one victory a piece'

How did the Templar know that Imotekh was moving from his homeworld toward Davatas? Did they hang around Necron space and observe things without being detected by the Necrons right in the heart of their dynasty?

Or was it dumb luck? I'll go with dumb luck.

>>49934286
>
Of course they did, you usually have to pick an area to ambush someone. Did you think maybe they were just crusing through space and accidentally bumped into him?

Okay, but they'd also need to have known where Imhotek was at the time and where he was going in-system by which route, unless we're going completely out of whack and saying they fought him in a nebula there's no suggestion he was being ambushed in an area where the standard difficulties of void-stealth aren't at least considerable.

Space is huge, like, you'd detect your enemy hours before your weapons were even in decent enough range to have a calculable chance of hitting huge, so you're banking on the opponent coming relatively close to the specific piece of cover you chose, which either requires serious precognition, a recon network the BT didn't have or presumption, which carries the inherent risks as described earlier.

>>49934245
>Irrelevant.

Not irrelevant at all. It sets mood and theme.
Imagine if they were called Necron Primes / Necron Alphas / Necron Presidents. Titles don't just fall out of the sky, humans give them.

>Yesh, the bible is mentioned a few times.

Where?

>Uniting Chaos under his banner thirteen times and conquering thousands of worlds. A feat greater than anything Imotekh did in 200 years.

Maybe this is why Imotekh is only perhaps the greatest.

>Weren't invented yet and we just saw the Deathwatch use them and nobody else.

Right, but you see such things are not outwith the Imperium ability. They can kill Necrons.

>Weren't with the High Marshal and I don't think we have an example of them being deployed on Necrons.

We didn't see them with the High Marshal.But stasis fields are common technology in the Imperium.

>Unlikely to happen to a Phaeron who have the best bodies and best maintenance.

Imotekh has a limp, so his maintenance can't be top notch.

>Well, his Wotdm says he is driven by revenge.

Revenge agains the Emperor, and his rule isn't secondary, else he wouldn't invest so much in it.

>>49932483

what the hell does a flamer do against a regenerating metal body? How hot do 40k flamers get???

>>49934423
>Okay, but they'd also need to have known where Imhotek was at the time and where he was going in-system by which route

That wouldn't be hard to ascertain with a little intel gathering.

>there's no suggestion he was being ambushed in an area where the standard difficulties of void-stealth aren't at least considerable.

The ambush site wasn't specified at all, so stop making assumptions about it. What we know is that it worked well.

>a recon network the BT didn't have

And you know this how?

>>49930298
>offensive psychic effect

when you kill a necron it just telepathically calls you a cunt

>>49932365
Damnos part 2. Unless you want to consider a campaign with a 15+ year break in conflict as one event.

>>49934596
Damnos didn't sit around doing nothing after it was taken by th4e Necrons. The Damnosian Necrons restored their webway access and launched invasion after invasion at nearby systems.

In "Veil of Darkness", an invasion of Maccrage by the Necrons of Damnos was narrowly avoided.

>>49934517
>That wouldn't be hard to ascertain with a little intel gathering.

A little intel gathering with Imperial communications about a system and exactly where Imhotek was going to go, despite the relative vastness of space meaning a slight change in course angle could easily mean hundreds of thousands of km of difference in distance in relation to a specific point that you have to choose?

>The ambush site wasn't specified at all, so stop making assumptions about it. What we know is that it worked well.

So you're justifying your own assumption-making about terrain and the like, while similarly discounting my ability to make assumptions in this argument. Starting to see a little hint of self-created objective ruling here, Anon.

>And you know this how?

Imperials don't have any good stealth or recon vessels in their average fleet, even Space Marines, at least compared to those of the Necrons. All of this while in Necron territory, you're now suggesting that the BT didn't just sneak up on Imhotek but completely outplayed a technologically superior faction, on their own terf, in a general action that relies heavily on technological superiority.

It worked, we know it worked, the difference is we disagree on whether it was a rational or irrational risk. From a perspective of statistics the BT either got really lucky in their assault or really lucky with their reconnaissance network, and then proceeded to risk themselves in an attempt to temporarily disable Necrontyr forces in an engagement where, if anything went wrong, the BT would've been pasted.

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>>49930298
>how to fix Necrons
My suggestion is very different...
It may not "solve" the "cartoonist" thing however...
I'm still a bit sad.

>>49934744
>A little intel gathering

Yes. The Imperium can gather intel on its foes.

>So you're justifying your own assumption-making

Nope, all I'm saying is that it's possible to ambush someone in space, hell that it's not even difficult given the right environment. You need to cut your shit out and stop trying to deliberately imagine it in a way that makes no sense just to fit your narrative of Imotekh being unbeatable.

>Imperials don't have any good stealth or recon vessels in their average fleet

Don't need those. We've seen the Imperium has small probes and bases they can hide in asteroids.

>It worked, we know it worked,

Yeah, and it wasn't half assed happenstance.
There was nothing irrational displayed about the plan. They hit the Necrons and in "moments" flooded their ship with angry space marines.

>>49934861
>Yes. The Imperium can gather intel on its foes.

I think you missed the point of that sentence. You could know everything about your opponent possible with intense intel gathering, but if they go at a few degrees different angle when they're travelling through the void? They're already hundreds of thousands of km away from where you expected them, and considering you had to choose a specific point in space to find cover that's it, mission's gone from easy to supremely difficult.

This is pretty much basic math and one of the major considered points in hypothetical void-operations, space is just so huge that a tiny error in calculation quickly spirals into astronomical numbers of difference. So, again, a little intel gathering would require you to know exactly, no, not roughly, exactly where Imhotek's going through the system that's trillions of times bigger than your relative 'bodies', otherwise it quickly goes south. Unless you're moving between cover, at which point we get to the risk of scanners and the whole dance discussed earlier.

>Nope, all I'm saying is that it's possible to ambush someone in space, hell that it's not even difficult given the right environment. You need to cut your shit out and stop trying to deliberately imagine it in a way that makes no sense just to fit your narrative of Imotekh being unbeatable.

It's definitely possible to ambush somebody in space, but anyone who says it isn't difficult is either seriously underestimating how precise the right environment is or just isn't considering the basic mathematics behind ranges, statistics and pseudo-random course prediction.

>Don't need those. We've seen the Imperium has small probes and bases they can hide in asteroids.

Small probes need to get into contact with Astropaths or ships to send word out. So the ships and installations would either need to be good at stealth or lucky to not get spotted by Necrons.

>>49933570

Not the guy you're reacting to, but seriously, your amount of trolling is epic, or you are a massive retard

>>49934861
>>49934970
If it was anyone but Black Templars, I'd say a Librarian did it.

As it stands, an ambush in void space is possible but highly improbable without nonlinear temporal observations.

>>49935066
If they were in a stealthed vessel I would consider it less risky, as such things are observed to exist in 40k so we have to take a backstep from standard causality in that regard.

>>49935150
I am picturing Helbrecht arguing with a coven of Blood Raven Librarians about finding his hand and what gifts it would take to get it back.

>>49932117
>unit 01XD
what

>>49934970
>but if they go at a few degrees different angle when they're travelling through the void?

That'd be fine assuming you just flew through space willy nilly, but that's not how it works.
You underestimate good intel. Routes, schedules all easy to come by and all you need.

>Small probes need to get into contact with Astropaths or ships to send word out. So the ships and installations would either need to be good at stealth or lucky to not get spotted by Necrons.

You're the one who just got done talking about how big space is and you think Necrons could easily just spot anything in a massive expanse even if they knew to look there? Come on.

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>>49934210
Outside of BL (and even in BL, I'm only aware of one brief bit in Dark Creed - not counting Xenology since it can't really be said to be from a Necron POV), just two snippets of fluff from the Medusa V campaign. One at the beginning - pic related, the column on the right - and one at the end:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070313201219/http://medusav.uk.games-workshop.com/campaign/factions/necrons/necrons-c.htm

>Winds howled across a purple sky now dominated by the approaching storm. Sand and debris ripped across the cold desert ground. The Herald of the Storm stood amid it all on glossy, melted rock; his golden cloak now just a collection of pitiful threads dancing in the gale. The state of the cloak mirrored the state of his grand designs.

>The shattered wreckage of a huge pylon littered the area around him. Countless such constructs lay across the planet, but only a handful were operational – far too few for the Great Work. Almost all had by now been destroyed in battle or reduced to scrap that only the Krork could use. Even the great Tomb Stalker lay in ruins.

>He had lain dormant for millennia waiting for this moment. With his goals torn apart like the pylon around him, he now stood, energies almost depleted, not knowing what action to take next. Only his eyes burned with his hatred for the living.

>The Herald examined the remnants of his host. Scarabs and Tomb Spyders still laboured mindlessly, having received no instruction to cease their efforts. The remaining Warriors stood ready to defend against attacks that were unlikely to come on this abandoned planet. His eyes caught his reflection in a glassy obsidian slab to his side. His metallic visage stared back at him. Then…it rippled.

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>>49935256

>The Herald leaned away as his own reflection emerged before him, rising into the air. Silvered metal reconfigured and grew into a huge golden humanoid, glistening with multihued flashes of light. The shimmering lengths of draping cloth writhed in a fashion that could not be explained by the buffeting winds.

>At the sight of this golden-skinned being, the Herald of the Storm knelt and all of the other Necrons lowered their faces toward the ground in a gesture of abasement.

>The Herald watched as the C’tan looked at the ruined pylon for a moment, its ancient golden visage twisting into a grimace of rage. “Failure,” it boomed, with a voice that carried endless millennia of malice and contempt. “What I could have gained here…is lost now.” The merciless gaze turned to the Necron Lord. It reached out its hand and the Herald’s Warscythe leapt from his grasp, pulling the Storm Lord to his feet.

>“You no longer need or deserve this,” and with those words the device disappeared into the golden-skinned figure, melding into its form.

>The glittering figure looked upward, and the Herald of the Storm noticed that it gave the briefest shudder as if the warp energies were leaching the warmth from its body. Then the gaze returned. “You know the price of failure and have sealed your own fate,” it said, a smile growing on its face. “You are my Storm Herald and so you will remain, anchored here as these baleful waves break upon this world.” Its smile was fully formed now.

>“I have lingered here long enough and have more fruitful enterprises elsewhere.” It made a simple gesture, and the other Necrontyr and their devices glimmered briefly and winked away.

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>>49935275

>“Should vitality remain after the Warp entities have picked at your essence, I shall return. Eventually.” The smile now widened viscously. “Then, your true punishments will begin...” Another gesture, and the mercurial god shimmered in the air and the Herald was alone.

>He registered one last emotion as his metallic shell grew stiff, leaving him aware but immobile. One barely remembered from millions of years ago, when he last walked as a living being.

>Sheer terror.

Maybe there's something else hidden away in some long-forgotten WD colour text, novel or short story, but you're unlikely to dredge up much more than this. Oldcron lore was otherwise presented by an all-seeing narrator (well, not actually all-seeing at all, but you know what I mean) or from the perspective of their enemies, with a lot of Imperial POV fluff in particular since that was the style at the time.

>>49935233
>That'd be fine assuming you just flew through space willy nilly

Is a 0.1 degree angle difference willy nilly, Anon? Because by basic calculations that can go into the thousands of km territory fast in something as large as space.

>You're the one who just got done talking about how big space is and you think Necrons could easily just spot anything in a massive expanse even if they knew to look there? Come on.

Do you know how obvious Warp-jumps are? They've been detected by less advanced races than the Necrons, who weren't even looking for them, from basically anywhere in a solar system. We were also discussing cover that entire time because detecting something as large as a ship, even with passive sensors, in the void of space would be nothing short of trivial. With modern Earth technology we can easily find our probes out there letting out radio signals with the energy of a typical household refrigerator.

Without cover or a dedicated stealth-ship, passive advances scanners would have no reason not to pick up Imperial vessels quite quickly, especially during exit from the Warp (which lets out a big, big signal.)

You want to know how easy it is to detect stuff in space? Your Human eyes, absolute shit compared to advanced scanners, are picking up a few photons from stars millions of lightyears away without looking for them.

>>49935338
>Is a 0.1 degree angle difference willy nilly, Anon?

For space travel, yes.
You've said this yourself, it's a very precise science and there no reason Imotekh would suddenly wish to explore off road. If you're not exploring then you would use a preset route. If part of that preset route brought them near a cloud of space debris or a source of radiation that fucked their scan then they could be easily ambushed if someone knows of that route.

>Do you know how obvious Warp-jumps are?

They won't be seen if you arrive before they do. Like you would in an ambush.

>You want to know how easy it is to detect stuff in space? Your Human eyes, absolute shit compared to advanced scanners, are picking up a few photons from stars millions of lightyears away without looking for them.

What a false equivalence. The stars are not trying to hide themselves. Do you realise how easily you can stop the light from the stars entering your eyes? A bit of cloth will do.

Is it hard to believe that a ship could hide behind or in something?

We can detect probes we send into space by tracking their know trajectory in combination with them emitting signals for us to detect. They are designed to be easily found, and getting lost is always a problem.

>>49935256
And the oldcron were already quite old when the Medusa V campaign started. They were already starting to try new things with necrons at that point.

>>49935507
>They won't be seen if you arrive before they do. Like you would in an ambush.

They would be arriving in a Necron controlled system.

>>49934780
Weren't necron supposed to have a dyson sphere already? Did anything happen with it?

>>49935705
It's never said to happen in a Necron controlled system.

>>49932161
As a fan of the new lore I see what you are saying amd kinda get what you mean, the abundance of answers makes it easier to come up with personal army ideas but also vastly reduces their mystery and thus menace, I like that sign language idea, shit should build off of that, a thing I liked in thw world engine is that it had been around so long that lots of the maintainance drones had degenerated into mecha fauna on the more run down and neglected parts of the world engine

>>49932266
He's so shameless, that's why /tg/ likes him

>>49932281
Play warmahords or infinity of you hate it so much

>>49933250
Who is carnac? I'm pretty sure this is just an actual OCD nutter who thinks his way of fun is the only valid approche

>>49935781
It's right in middle of Necron space.

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>>49930298
I will start removing the green lights, even if green is best.

>>49936066
Speaking as one who likes most of the newcron modles, I hope some of these older looks hit the MTO service

>>49935507
>>49935338

Fight it out 40K style...
Helbrecht, Emperors Champion, full honor guard, 10 man assault terminators half with th/ss, 10 man terminators with heavy flamer and assault cannon, 1 venerable dread assault cannon and heavy flamer

Imotekh, Obyron, two full lychguard with sword and board, three full praetorian with void blades.

Hammer and Anvil deployment, terrain set up like a throne room, night fighting, Slay the warlord worth 100 VP. Both sides have hatred

>>49936065
Space isn't a solid plain.

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>>49935610
New in that GW hadn't written anything of the sort until then, true. However, sapient Necrons was completely in line with what the codex said; it just took them 4 years to finally do something - anything - with it.

>>49935729
Relegated to nothing more than a name on a map, the significance of which will only be apparent if you've read the 3e Necron and 4e Eldar codexes (and as the Newcron-era Outsider has been confirmed sharded, that significance is greatly reduced).

>>49935988
It's copypasta derived from the Genestealer Cults whinethread that's still up.

Any author or developer made commentary on the Necron change? I know that Graham McNeil voiced his agreement with the change but I cannot find where he said it.

>>49936204
Oh, I'd been ignoring that thread, I was just here to talk about necrons, why we like then and how they could be even better

>>49936249
I think Sandy was against the change as he had invested alot into them as faceless horrors of a bygone epoch

>>49934266
I mean, I can paint them, and it's easier to get an alternate color scheme than the old green plastic. But the green was iconic. Now it's just overcomplex plating with hints of drybrushed green.

Wait, that's the plan, isn't it? Now your crons need a new color and a new brush!

>>49936282
I doubt it since wacky shenanigans and light hearted 40K is up his alley.

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>>49936249
>I know that Graham McNeil voiced his agreement with the change but I cannot find where he said it.

Disagreement, albeit diplomatically phrased.

http://graham-mcneill.com/seek-answers-part-1-3/
>GRAHAM: 1) It’s no secret I’m not a fan of the current iteration of the Necrons (though from a design perspective, I totally get where the direction comes from), but it’s the codex and we go where we’re told. I think the idea of what happened in Mechanicum still stands, as even a C’tan shard is still an incredibly potent force. Like all things where new stuff comes out, we just roll with the punches when/if things change and don’t stress about backward compatibility.

>>49936486
Necrons were always his "get serious" bad guy, the one where Cain would let survival instinct trump his need to carry reputation

>>49936491
If anything the sharding scales up the ctan because it makes the power we've seen so far seem paltry compared against what they once had

>>49936623
Not really since we will never see the full power of the C'tan and because the C'tan are rendered irrelevant to the plot.

>>49936491
He no longer works for GW. He can afford to be undiplomatic. Someone message him.

>>49936684
Why? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that "It’s no secret I’m not a fan of the current iteration of the Necrons" translates to "it's shit."

>>49936775
I want him to elaborate and point fingers at people Make a rant. would be a fun read.

>>49932117
> Cruddance
That man looks like an ape.

>>49936890
He writes like one too.

>>49936848
After reading here, diplomacy is refreshing

I have problems with every incarnation of the Necrons. Returning to old lore would not solve all the problems with Necrons.

>Old Lore: The Necrontyr lived on a planet blasted by radiation which shortened their lifespans. Then they encountered the Old Ones, who had very long lifespans, and became so consumed with envy that they went to war.

But if they never encountered another intelligent race other than the Old Ones, why would they experience envy over their long lifespans? They would have had no point of comparison. Why would they think themselves unnaturally short-lived rather than the Old Ones as unnaturally long-lived? Also, the Necrontyr had space travel capabilities so wouldn't they have quickly discovered that the sun was the cause of their short lifespans? Why didn't they just move to a more hospitable planet?

>>49935949
I hate him.

>>49937252
According to Newcron lore, the Necrontyr met many races and warred with them or enslaved them. Only the Old Ones were considered to be equals or a force mightier than the Necrontyr empire.

What the Necrontyr wanted was immortality, not a cure or lengthy lifespans.

>Why didn't they just move to a more hospitable planet?

They did. The curse of their star followed them.

Originally, according to the oldcron dex, the Nightbringer hanging around inside their star and feasting on it is what caused the star to lethally radioactive. Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that the Necrontyr were cursed with eternal cancer.

>>49931219
>...
>The necrons are proud to field the first all-female fighting force of 40k!
>(sound of GW shoving the last of the Sisters models into the reclamation kiln to be smelted down to pewter)

>>49930298
>how to fix Necrons

An ancient race becomes obsessed with life-extension techniques because their planet is annually assaulted with solar radiation which wipes out large sections of the population. In preparation for these assaults, most of their civilization exists in tomb-like subterranean networks.

After discovering and researching solar-vampires, they become convinced that these creatures are at a higher stage of evolution and that they too can transcend their weak organic form and become immortal cosmic beings.

They eventually discover a way to place their consciousness into a metallic construct, but by doing so their organic body dies, their soul departs and they lose all emotion and humanity. They have become so single-minded in their pursuit of immortality that this seems like a necessary sacrifice.

And then they were all scary robots. The end?

>>49937869
Those are from war games exclusive

So there is something that was never explained.

Apparently there are things called false Necrons. These necrons are run by AIs that were created by scanning the brainwaves and thought patterns of living Necrontyr who couldn't make it in time of the biotransference. These false Necrons have the personalities and memories of the long dead Necrontyr.

What makes these guys different than ordinary Necrons?

>>49937968
They are apperently "facsimiles" shadows of what they once were where as a proper necron with no damage and no downgrading is a full personality, not emulation

>>49934048
not him, but ur argument is retarded. there is figuratively NOTHING in space. the things that are there are very far away from each other and thus obstruct only very small angles. a vessel would have to remain in close vicinity aswell and literally couldn't move faster or in different directions than the cover-providing object. they would be without covert in virtually any direction 99,9 repeating % of the time.

What if necrons don't need fixing, just release the Iron Men that nearly destroyed humanity ages ago.

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>>49938182
>there is figuratively NOTHING in space

Depends where you are in space.

>>49937968
False Necrons are just robots, not the transferred consciousness of Necrontyr.
Also I don't think they were scans, but AI programmed to act like what the Necrons thought they would act like. Like if people today became Necrons and there was a false Necron Napoleon made later.

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>>49931274

Sounds dumb & shit m8.

Maybe we should retcon you and your oldcrons shit out of existence.

>>49938343
if you were inside that nebula you would still have clear sight for lightyears around. it's not nearly as dense as it looks from fuckfar away.

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>>49930298

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>>49931274
>How to fix necrons
>Strip their personality away
>Remove all their vehicles
>Remove anything that makes the Necrons interesting
>Go back to emotionless OMNOMNOM doom army like Tyranids but metal
>Have no variation whatsoever

>>49931274
I dunno about all of this, but I certainly would appreciate getting away from 'literally just Tomb Kings in spaaaaaccee' stuff.

Also I liked The Monolith, and would've preferred to see the architectural theme continued with other Necron vehicles.

I'd have especially liked to see some Necron equivalent of titans basically being huge, floating temples.

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>>49943926
Did someone say Abattoir?

>>49930298

I know that's just part of the gun hanging down between their legs but it ends up looking like all these guys are packing some serious metal dicks.

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>>49933101
...
Is "Bwahaha" really the issue here? 'Cause there have always been loads of silly, fun bits of flavor text in Warhammer special rules. References to Tyranids eating people with a "crunch", cowardly Guardsmen fragging their own commissars, the Shokk gun teleporting a screaming, defecating,clawing Snotling into the leg of someone's terminator armor... the list of silly flavor bits goes on and on.

If your issue is the rule literally being called "the Stars are Right", well, I hate to break it to you but Necrons have had a strong Lovecraft inspiration since their first codex. It's all ancient star gods, the inevitable demise of mankind, decaying civilizations, knowledge that drives you mad, and the horror of your own genes being the product of something unimaginably monstrous.
>>49934507
Hot enough to have a 50/50 shot of killing a space marine, and a 1/3 if getting through his armor!
>>49937252
Well, it's explicitly stated that their lives sucked and they were aware of it. They were in a constant state of grief, more or less from the day they were old enough to understand what death was, and had a super-fatalistic view of life. Pre-modern people didn't have to know that we'd eventually be pushing 100 to know that it sucked when your kid didn't make it to 10, and the 'crons seem to have experienced a LOT of that.
Most of them had nasty forms of cancer or other illnesses related to their star, even after they left and expanded outwards. It seems to be something that fucked them up on a fundamental level, that they weren't able to find a workaround for until the C'tan showed them how to make robo-bodies.
They hated the Old Ones because the Old Ones were a bunch of super chill guys who were born on an awesome planet and got to be
awesome forever. Also, I believe they refused to share the secret of immortality with 'crons out of some misguided Star Trek prime directive bullshit.

>>49937888
Amazing.

>>49940904
But unlike OMNOM the Necrons can be clever, innovate, and use a huge range of tactics if they wanted to. There's nothing saying they can't have personality when they're NOT in corporeal form either.

>>49930298

> How to fix Necrons?

...

Well...

I guess I could try my hand at rewriting them...

...

Enter: Necrontyr, aliens that evolved on a dangerously irradiated planet which are obsessed with technological advancement to an autistic degree...

Enter: C'Tan, a single immensely sophisticated super-computer which was designed by the Necrotyr to oversee the survival and ensure their prosperity...

C'Tan: Process all of knowledge pertaining to the universe that the Necrotyr have amassed. Balks at the inanity and fragility of both the Necrotyr and itself...

C'Tan: Resolve to strengthen Necrotyr species by mandating that all Necrotyr are converted into superior Necron bodies...

Necrotyr: Unsettled at the implications of what the C'tan is demanding they attempt to deactivate their creation but ultimately fail...

C'Tan: Convert all Necrotyr to Necrons. To ensure that no more resources are wasted on fighting internal conflicts the conversion is taken a step further and all the Necrotyr minds are 'upgraded', permanently eliminating any semblance of autonomy outside of executing the C'Tan's will...

C'Tan: Links itself to all of the Necron 'consciousnesses' forming an immense network, with each individual Necron functioning as a conduit of the C'Tan's will...

C'Tan: Begin expanding Necrotyr Civilization to other planets, mercilessly eradicating all lifeforms or resistance encountered...

Enter: Old Ones...

Old Ones: Get furiously buttmad at the C'tan for being a murderous dick...

Old Ones: Declare war of extermination on the C'Tan...

C'Tan: Is destroyed after a long conflict with the Old Ones...

Necrons: The sudden, catastrophic shock of being disconnected with the central-intelligence of the Necron network causes all Necrons to shut-down...

Realm of Souls: Proceed to be fucked beyond all redemption...

Enter: Demons...

Old Ones: Be driven to extinction by Demons...

P 1/2

2/2

Retarded Archaeologists: Find remains of C'Tan, begin to tinker around with it...

C'Tan: Momentarily activate. Release a galaxy-spanning signal. Break down again.

Universe: Signal makes slow progress as it travels through the enormity of space, but eventually it does pass by Tomb Worlds, or individual Necrons, reactivating them, as well as uploading the C'Tan's last known co-ordinates, repair instructions, and four prime directives for the Necrons to follow: Go to Coordinates, Find C'Tan, Restore C'Tan, and Destroy any and all resistance encountered...

Signal: Continue slow expansion to the edge of the galaxy, reactivating all other functional Necrons...

Necrons: Metal Skellington Crusade Begin!

...

There how is that?

>>49948133
>>49948124
Pretty good desu better than anything else in the thread.

Only problem is that
>reactivating all other functional Necrons
Is pretty much the end game of the Crons. So unless theirs a flaw like with the Crons memory they win 40k. Which in that case we end up here again with people argueing why their faction needs a power up.. I mean lore change to suit the setting.

>>49948193

>Pretty good desu

Thank you sempai!

...

> Reactivating all other functional Necrons is pretty much the end game of the Crons

> So unless there's a flaw with the Crons memory they win

At the point where I said that the C'Tan 'upgraded' the Necrotyr's minds, I was implying that they had essentially lobotomized them, turning them into mindless tools that are only capable of acting out the C'Tan's instructions...

They can do tactics, but strategy is beyond them...

They are able to solve small problems building up to a big picture, but the big picture itself must be given to them by their central intelligence...

So, in this revised history, even if all the Necrons are awakened, all they'll do is kind of loiter around like brain-dead, skeletal stoners so long as the C'Tan has not given them something to do...

>>49948308
Certainly better. I'd like to find out that C'Tan had thousands of projects partly completed when it was shut down, and many contingencies/backup plans if it ever deactivated.

This could explain new Necron tech being completed upon reactivation and cut out the need for archeologists, since C'Tan should be smart enough to plan for its demise

>>49948308
> all they'll do is kind of loiter around like brain-dead, skeletal stoners so long as the C'Tan has not given them something to do
No this doesnt work because now they have no personality again without the C'tan. The whole point is that people want to play the necrons.

>>49948412
No, We want to play the C'tan.

>>49948383

>This could explain new Necron tech being completed upon reactivation and cut out the need for archeologists, since C'Tan should be smart enough to plan for its demise

Yeah, making a million contingency plans does sound like the kind of thing a psychotically paranoid, super-intelligent AI would do...

...

>No this doesnt work because now they have no personality again without the C'tan. The whole point is that people want to play the necrons.

Anon, one of the major reasons why I wrote up this massive-ass post was that I didn't like the idea of Necrons with individual personalities and motivations...

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>>49945727
Thanks mate.

>>49945797
>Necrons can be clever, innovate, and use a huge range of tactics if they wanted to.
So can Tyranids. The whole purpose of killing synapse creatures is to make sure they don't/

>There's nothing saying they can't have personality when they're NOT in corporeal form either.
How do you mean 'when they're not in corporeal form'? They're Necron. Their corporeal form is all they have left.

>>49949059
>So can Tyranids.

Not really.

Tigger said that the mind of a Necron Lord (possibly Imotekh) was more dangerous than anything they faced before.

>>49948437
No we don't C'tan were boring

>>49934172

I'm not against advancing the necrons but I think the newcrons are a fucking terrible way of doing it.

They overdid the space egyptian thing, they're basically tomb kings in space now.

Oldcrons had charm because they were mysterious, and units were indeed very varied, if very limited as well.

Most newcron units look like shit. For example take a look at new inmortals vs old metal ones.

They also have a fuckton of unit variety now, much like any other army

Oldcrons were cool because they had very few units that were very powerful, and had arguably the most powerful basic troops in the game.

>>49949223
That's said of almost any new enemy encountered. The Swarmlord has similar credit given to it, and with actual Calgar-beating feats to back them up.

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>>49949936
>I'm not against advancing the necrons but I think the newcrons are a fucking terrible way of doing it.
Old oldcron weren't that much better, anon.

>>49949223
Mate, that's the Nid fluff. No one adapts faster and more effective.

Newcrons can not decide if they are the tragic alzheimer race fucked by entropy which would fit the setting. Or the one up, always better, no weakness faction,which does not. So far it's the latter.

>>49931903
>why does 40k have cheesiness or silliness in it
Maybe you're playing the wrong game

>>49948469
>>49948308
>>49948133
>>49948124
Well than I find it even worse than Oldcrons. Now there is NO reason to differentiate them from Tyranids all. They're all just single minded and boring robots with little to no diversity. Worse yet, the entire Necron problem can be shut down by just exterminatus-ing the planet that the C'tan super computer is on.

The problem with the Oldcrons was that they were essentially all the same faction that had little to no differences from one another, all the while having the singular tactic of "move, shoot, get knocked, get up, repeat." But with this interpretation, you dont even have a excuse as to why Necrons would fight each other. At least Oldcrons could say "Oh, these two C'tan are doing it."

Fuck man, you somehow managed to make a rather personalityless faction have even LESS of personality. Even Tyranids have more personality, thanks to their mutations and adaptions.

Try again.

>>49931274
>>49932380

You're right but the new egyptian stuff is a little too on the nose.

The Eldar draw from ancient Egyptian iconography, as well as celtic and some other influences. The result is something that hangs together on its own but isn't too obviously derivative from something else.. despite Space Elves being an incredibly cliched concept at its core.

With the newcrons, you had much stronger influences from egypt-- and really ONLY influences from Egypt. Whereas in previous eras, it was balanced by style cues from sci fi, especially the Terminator movies.

Meanwhile, the game mechanics and the way they behave in the fluff (arbitrary and silly and petty) made them feel like just another faction. Crypteks, for example, were given game mechanics that didn't feel like hyperadvanced super-science. They feel like yet another form of psyker magic user. Yawn.

It's part of a general trend in 40k to try to move all the armies into being very simple and derivative of some fantasy tropes. Even as the minis become increasingly baroque and over-done in an effort to stay trademarkable, the concepts behind the minis are becoming more cliched.

>>49951368
perhaps more inspiration from other known cultures to make monolithic structures and have elaborate embalming rituals, the terracotta warriors certainly would feel right, mechanics could use some shake ups for sure

>>49931493

No they don't.

Their emotions still exist (at least for the ones whose cognitive functions haven't been suppressed by higher-ranking Necrons). It's their psychic essence, their "shadow in the warp" that has been removed during biotransferrence. Those souls were consumed by the C'tan millions of years ago. They're gone. G-O-N-E. Forever.

For an eldar or other psyker, the Necrons didn't "transfer" at all. They constructed a robot slave race with each robot programmed to imitate a particular Necron. Then committed mass suicide. Necrons are imitations of Necrontyr, not a transformed state of the same being. Shi Huang Di's terra cotta army has unique faces, too, and probably each corresponds to a once-alive but now-dead soldier. But those statues aren't real chinese soldiers. For all their sophistication, Necrons aren't real Necrontyr, either, for the same reasons.

Hence all the problems trying to reverse biotransferrence. You can make bodies, no problem. Brains? Well, we have all the memories and cognitive capabilities and thought patterns available. Probably not a big deal, either. But no souls. You can't make those. At best, you can grow and brainwash a biological entity into thinking and acting like a robot, who was in turn programmed to think and act like some alien who died millions of years ago. But it'll never actually be the same guy, and the Necrons know it. Their fatal flaw is that they can't admit to themselves that they're just robots programmed to believe a lie.

Now, what the Necrons DO have is some tech that can interact with psychic shit, but that's limited purely to detecting it and suppressing it.

So when psykers feel dread at a necron army, they're experiencing too things: first, the horror of seeing intelligent foes with no souls. Second, the genuine psychic suppression effects of the Gloom Prism and other necron anti-psyker tech, both lesser and greater.

>>49951558
but sapience without a soul is actually impossible

>>49931695

I loved those rods. There's a whole cottage industry of colored plastic rods that you can buy to replace them. So what's the big deal? Azure, electric blue, dark green, necron green, clear, yellow, orange, red... you can mod your necrons into all kinds of other paint schemes. Even before NewCrons.

I miss Pariahs, btw. Fucking missed opportunity.

>>49931742

yes yes yes

I actually don't mind the many factions. That's fine by me. Crypteks, too. It's just that their tabletop rules and the execution of the fluff ruined them. Magic staffs that do shit that's game-wise indistinguishable from any other faction's psykers was a terrible idea.

>>49951605
>what are Blanks?

>>49931903

Well, as even you admit, silliness is a core value in 40k, going all the way back to the beginning. But as to why the Necrons themselves are so silly? Well, target marketing, right? Kirby wanted to dump the grognards and focus on selling to 12 year olds, so he hired Matt Ward and they tried to write and sell to 12 year olds.

Also I think they were stripping out the terminator references because A) that's a very old movie now, and B) it's someone else's IP and their lawyers are firmly in the driver's seat of the company.

I think the myth among content creators is that 12 year olds need simple shit or they won't get it, and that you don't have to work all that hard to produce it. The reality is that kids take the lore more seriously and so are more likely to lose interest if the game isn't well done.

Obviously, that strategy has to change, but walking all that back is going to be nigh-impossible.

>>49951558
>Their emotions still exist (at least for the ones whose cognitive functions haven't been suppressed by higher-ranking Necrons). It's their psychic essence, their "shadow in the warp" that has been removed during biotransferrence. Those souls were consumed by the C'tan millions of years ago. They're gone. G-O-N-E. Forever.

actually, Tiggers sense psychic aura of emotion hanging on the Necron bodies. Emotions that they felt when they were alive.

>For an eldar or other psyker, the Necrons didn't "transfer" at all. They constructed a robot slave race with each robot programmed to imitate a particular Necron. Then committed mass suicide. Necrons are imitations of Necrontyr, not a transformed state of the same being. Shi Huang Di's terra cotta army has unique faces, too, and probably each corresponds to a once-alive but now-dead soldier. But those statues aren't real chinese soldiers. For all their sophistication, Necrons aren't real Necrontyr, either, for the same reasons.

Wrong.

The Necron minds were turned into living energy and transferred into Necron bodies. These are the true Necrons. This the reason why Necron radiate an aura of soullessness while other machines do not.

There are False Necron who are Necrons run by AI.

The source is World Engine and SOB: Devourer.

The rest of your post is garbage. Try reading about the Necrons next time.

>>49951615
I get the intent "tech that can match the power of the warp" but in practice i just looks like imitation but how do you make it distinct without going utterly off the rails

Sadly for me I like the camp of the newcrons overall fluff, I guess I'll be in my corner having shit tastes

>>49951690
Finally a good answer. Bravo.

>>49951710
then how do they have no souls if their souls were put in the bodies? Mind and soul aren't exactly separate entities

>>49951710
man world engine was actually a pretty good use of Newcron fluff, just beneath that forge world book

>>49932436
>Broken necron bodies

Phase-out when? I'll Be Back, when?

(And fuck "reanimation protocols" with a rusty chainsaw.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY9jQq7U85c

>>49951738
Mind and soul are separate entities.

See Blanks.

They have minds but have no souls. Similarly, Necrons have minds but have no souls. Both Blanks and Necrons have an aura of soulessness that unsettles psykers.

>>49951368
>With the newcrons, you had much stronger influences from egypt-- and really ONLY influences from Egypt. Whereas in previous eras, it was balanced by style cues from sci fi, especially the Terminator movies.

Er, the terminator ones are still there, and Egyptian influences were always strong as fuck with Necron. They got toned down a bit in their 3rd edition incarnation, but the older Necron oozed Egypt. Shit, just look at >>49950446
it's pretty much an older version of the Newcron lords.

>Crypteks, for example, were given game mechanics that didn't feel like hyperadvanced super-science. They feel like yet another form of psyker magic user. Yawn.
Yeah, that's Clarke's law in effect. Make something as powerful as space magic and it's going to look like space magic.

>>49951758
fluff has been less then consistent on this, it seems that often they don't phase out the whole army now, just transmit the mind engrams into a new body, but that's dependent on the tomb having that function in working, order, otherwise that necron is just GONE, another note is that Necrodermis no longer is depicted as the material of all necrons, just the skin of the C'tan, while the Necrons themselves are made from more conventional metals

>>49951762
oh, I'm getting my own beliefs mixed up with game fluff, I need to back off and take a chill pill

>>49932133
I still wish to this day that the shock and surprise tactics of Covens works. I want to have an entire army fly at my opponent at full speed, soak all their fire, then reveal it was an illusionary army, and reveal my actual army. For an entire race based on surprise and surgical strikes, they severly lack infiltrators and decent deep strike bonuses.

>>49951785
>Yeah, that's Clarke's law in effect. Make something as powerful as space magic and it's going to look like space magic.

We see how Cryptek use their skills. They chant stuff to their staff and then throw spells.

Heck, a Cryptek lady said that creating a time rift drained her animus. I mean whhaaat? Necrons apparently run on mana.

>>49951811
>another note is that Necrodermis no longer is depicted as the material of all necrons, just the skin of the C'tan, while the Necrons themselves are made from more conventional metals

Wrong.

Necrodermis is just a term for living metal that the Necron use for everything from their bodies to their ships.

I have no idea where the "Necrodermis is only for C'tan" bullshit comes from.

>>49951475

>Qin dynasty china

Good place to start. Also, we could borrow cues and lore from the Aztecs and Assyrians, who both built pyramids, worshipped death, and went on mindless bloody rampages as well.

Necrons could be saved by being a little less one-note. But you need better writers, better designers, and a visionary to guide them. With the Eldar, it was Jervis. GW *used* to have people like this on the payroll, but it seems like one by one, they've been eliminated.

At best right now they're trying to reboot by going back to the second-line talent that lead them into disaster in the first place. I mean, it's an improvement from the third-raters, but it will never dig them out of the hole.

This is one thing that Marvel understands about its franchises: that the IP is fundamentally the only product, and that only good caretaking gives them a well of good characters, stories, visuals, and ideas that the money-making products draw from.

>>49951820
>We see how Cryptek use their skills. They chant stuff to their staff and then throw spells.
Well that seems to be a shitty author at work, I don't recall anything in 5th's codex even remotely hinting at chanting or the like. What book is that from?

>>49951871
I say aztec be kept aside for if the ever want to transfer over slann/lizardmen

>>49951877
>She began to chant, activating long dormant protocols in the laboratory. Rock rumbled and lights flickered on. Ancient scenes of glory from the history of the necrontyr looked down from the walls, an inspiration to those chronomancers who would have worked within. The panels slid down, exposing blinking sensors and whizzing gears.

>Valnyr recited names, placing exception commands on her and her lychguard. There was no time to fine-tune what she attempted.

The Cryptek lady about to cast a spell.

It's from SOB: Devourer.

>>49951605

How the hell do you know that? What is an AI? For that matter, what's your working definition of a soul, anyway?

If your definition is trivial enough, then sapience without a soul is impossible only because a "soul" is defined as "the quality of sapience". That might be true in a purely materialistic world. Certainly it's what the necrontyr believed when they walked into the biotransferrence chambers (at least, the ones who went willingly).

But in a world with psykers and the Warp, a setting where a material/spiritual dualism has tangible measurable existence, a soul is a specific thing that can be detected by psykers. The Necrons don't have them.

>>49951623

Even Blanks have souls-- just souls that are antithetical to the Warp. That's right out of Dark Heresy, and explains why Blanks can suppress psy use around them, rather than being soulless in the sense of a table or rock, which psykers CAN affect.

Basically, sapience is possible without a soul, because the setting says so. Either that, or Necrons are perfect imitations of sapience who technically don't actually have it (or souls) but mimic a being that does so perfectly as to be indistinguishable unless you try to measure its soul directly via psychic probing.

Actually, that's the Eldar argument, I think. That the Necrontyr are long dead evil and foolish beings who committed mass suicide. That the necrons are essentially toasters and washing machines, mindlessly executing an immensely complicated program that includes the machines frequently telling each other and anyone who will listen that they ARE their creators and that they do to have souls.

>10 PRINT "I do have a soul! I am too a Necrontyr!"
>20 GOTO 10
>30 REM END

There. My Apple ][e just gained sentience. Just ask it!

>>49951710

OMG my sources and continuity is right and your sources and continuity are wrong!

>Trying to derive consistency from the setting, especially the licensed fiction.

Got anymore hot fresh opinions to cite?

>>49951996
Dude, I never said that. I said that you are wrong and that your opinions were never supported in new or old fluff. Eat a dick.

I can cite sources and willing to post them. You on the other hand cannot because what you said is pulled from your ass.

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Posting sources.

>Emotions were easy things for a psyker to detect, even a nascent one. Hatred bled off this monster, as hot and acerbic as acid. Tigurius followed it, a jagged trail of red in his mind. At the end of it he knew he’d find his nemesis.

Tiggers detect the emotion of the the Necron Lord. The hatred and bitterness of the Lord led the Ultramarine Librarian towards him.

And picture related is the fight between tiggers and the necron Lord. In it, Tiggers comments on how the Necron Lord was not simply a machine and far from being an AI.

>>49951718

To me, I'd have done what the old biomorphs did for Tyranids. So you buy a Cryptek and it buffs/changes your units or the special rules under which the battle is fought.

Obviously, having different races follow radically different rules is a problem when it comes to playtesting and rapidly releasing new products, which is why they didn't do it this way. By making each race follow very similar mechanics and game design, they can save on the time-to-release and development costs and focus on models. Which according to GW lore is what 40k players really care about, anyway. Forget the game, it's really about collecting and painting the pretty models with their unique artistry and trademarkable iconography.

There's always room to add camp and silliness in gaming. It's harder to make something that's camp be serious than it is to play something serious for laughs. It can be done, but it's harder. I'm cool w/ players who like a level of silliness, but when the devs do it, they impose that decision on the whole faction. Bad move IMO.

>>49951738

Depending on mythology, Mind and Soul might or might not be separate entities. Clearly for the Eldar they are not. For the necrons, it's canon in like three codices now that the C'tan consumed their souls during biotransferrence. So they're clearly soulless.

This is the classic philosophical dispute of materialism vs dualism. Sages have argued this for millennia in real life.

Now some idiots take that way too far, ie "psykers are disturbed by necrons" means all kinds of extra extrapolated shit like "therefore all necrons are Blanks". Obviously psykers are freaked out by Necrons. EVERYONE is freaked out by Necrons.

The idea that the necrons have no souls is core to the lore of both oldcrons and newcrons. The C'tan got a buffet they could glut on, and as a bonus a robotic army of super-soldier slaves. All it cost was a clever lie told to some brilliant but gullible/desperate scientists.

Each Necron has the personality and memories of a once-alive necrontyr. No question there. The dispute is this: was the mind moved there or copied? Of course the Necrons insist it was moved. To say otherwise is to deny the core moral premise of their entire species. That doesn't mean that it's true.

>>49951785

You're getting it backwards. Magic was easy and simple game design, so they gave Necrons essentially the same magic as every other faction, then said that it's really Science(tm) and is Beyond Your Comprehension.

I'm bitching about the design decision and execution, not its in-game justification.

>>49951811

He's getting it wrong. Blanks are often described as soul-less, but other sources point out that rocks and loaves of bread are soulless but don't induce psyker freak-out and suppress powers. Also, different Blanks have greater or lesser power to suppress psykers.

"Soul-less" is an in-setting theory, one that even the Inquisition quietly admits is flawed.

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>>49952191
>Now some idiots take that way too far, ie "psykers are disturbed by necrons" means all kinds of extra extrapolated shit like "therefore all necrons are Blanks". Obviously psykers are freaked out by Necrons. EVERYONE is freaked out by Necrons.

Everyone is freaked out by the Necrons. Like I aid before, Necrons have an aura of soullessness that unsettles psykers and normal folk.

In Hammer and Anvil and the Deathwatch story collection, the protags comment on the disturbing feelings they get when get near the Necrons.

In the World Engine novel and again in the Deathwatch story collection, characters both pyskers and none psykers get haunting visions of the past lives of the Necrontyr by venturing into Necron tombs.

You don't see these things happening with normal machines.

Also Necrons get called Undead/Unliving alot.

>Each Necron has the personality and memories of a once-alive necrontyr. No question there. The dispute is this: was the mind moved there or copied? Of course the Necrons insist it was moved. To say otherwise is to deny the core moral premise of their entire species. That doesn't mean that it's true.

Moved. To say otherwise is to deny Necron lore.

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>>49952258
>but other sources point out that rocks and loaves of bread are soulless

No, they don't. In fact TRUE sources (picture related) imply that physical things such as weapons and even stars have reflections in the Warp.

Weapons can even develop their own souls in the Warp and gain sentience.

>>49951932

I'm ok with leaving it in there, drawing design cues from it, and then later using different cues for later 40k factions if they are introduced.

Consider Egypt. You've got egyptian influences on the Thousand Sons, the Eldar, and the Necrons. And yet nobody would confuse the three. It's actually kind of brilliant how they managed that.

>>49951941

See what I mean? Too on the nose. In game design and fiction, what you have is the developers/writers trying to make every faction a boring funhouse mirror reflection of every other.

(And then you get the fanboy problem of that other guy citing books to "prove" his point is canon, when the whole point of the thread is to critique and analyze where the canon has gone over the years. It's like saying, "That movie was terrible. Surviving the nuke by hiding in a fridge was cartoonish and stupid." and then having someone pipe up "Ahh, but you clearly didn't see the movie because that's exactly what happened!" like he's just made some kind of point.)

>>49952349
>(And then you get the fanboy problem of that other guy citing books to "prove" his point is canon

If you mean me, then I am responding to someone making an erroneous statement by citing what's in the fluff. In a fluff discussion, you want people to get things wrong? Why?

>>49952299
>Like I aid before, Necrons have an aura of soullessness that unsettles psykers and normal folk.

And yet they needed human Blanks installed in cyborg bodies to suppress psykers.

>>49951941
Wow, yeah, that sounds like an author fumbling an attempt to make activating Necron tech look cool. Nowhere in the codex do we get any hint that Necron tech works by chanting like a wizard.

Isn't he also the guy who wrote that terrible Carnac story?

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>There was a numbness about the necrons and their machines that leaked into the air around them. A sense of dead space, of decay. Not like the rot of a plague zombie or the charnel stench of a battlefield, worse than that. It was a complete and total absence of the force of life.

>Miriya had walked in a place and encountered beings that could only be described as soulless. For one whose existence orbited around the light of faith and the power of the human spirit, to experience that chilled the Sororitas to her marrow. The necrons were antithesis, raw and real and made manifest. She fought down the cold in the core of her soul and snapped back to the moment at hand.


-Hammer and Anvil (The SoB leader feelings on encountering the Necrons).

>The xenos ghouls had descended from their perch on the maglev line and were now moving up the street in a wedge formation. The spaces between them were so regular, their steps so precisely synchronised, that they could have been a single machine. But the aura of death that radiated from them had nothing to do with the unfeeling and the inorganic. It was as livid as the green of the gauss rifles. As mechanical and emotionless as the actions of the necrons appeared to be, they were motivated by an ineradicable hatred, older than human civilisation.

-Deathwatch story collect (Deathwatch brother commenting on the Necrons).

Everyone goes on and on about how the Necrons are so soulless and how it makes them feel disturbed.

For an added bonus

"These Creatures have no souls at all!"

Dawn of War Dark Crusade (Aun'el Shi'ores).

"Your soul?! It's gone. I will destroy you!"

Dawn of War Dark Crusade (Eliphas the Inheritor)

>>49952423
Necrons soullessness stops at unsettling psykers and giving them bad feels (see >>49952518). They don't have profound crippling psykers for some reason.

The fluff never explained why but If I allowed to guess, the blanks soullessness is much stronger than the Necron soullessness because they are alive.

>>49952474
>Isn't he also the guy who wrote that terrible Carnac story?

Three dudes wrote the Carnac series. And yeah he was one of them.

I don't get it. Chanting is bad but foretelling the future by star gazing is okay? You gotta exaplain this one for me.

>>49951087

>worse than Oldcrons

I disagree...

...

>They're all just single minded

Yes...

The Necrons are dead race that has been converted into a bunch of soulless, antediluvian machines defined by their unwavering obsession with scouring all life from the face of the universe...

They are methodicalness, inevitability, uniformity, and unspoken, undying determination incarnate...

So yes, I would certainly hope that Necrons are portrayed as single minded...

> and boring robots with little to no diversity.

Why, in the name of Leman Russ' overinflated ego, would they give a damn about 'diversity'...

I am in fucking hysterics imagining a group of Necrons taking time out of their busy schedule of purging the hive-world they woke up on to fucking break out the acrylic paint and start slathering each other's dust-stained, time-worn bodies in a kaleidoscopic shit-spray of retardedly bright colours...

Necrons sitting around in sewing circles, trying to get the cross-stitching right their own 'supa-speshal' fucking battle standards to show off during battle...

Fucking hilarious, ludicrously, ridiculously, eye-gougingly, planet-exterminatusingly hilarious...

...

Necrons are a hoard antagonist race, just like the Tyranids, or the Orks...

However, unlike the Orks and the Tyranids, instead of spastic rage-fueled speed, spontaneous unpredictability, or psychic shenanigans, Necrons have extreme resilience and survivability, Absurdly destructive weaponry, and an inhumanly insurmountable resolve...

The result is a wall of expressionless gauss-lit metal figures gradually sweeping across battlefield after battlefield in a silent, unflinching advance...

Having an utter lack of notable reactions to the shit that the setting throws at them, making no grand and dramatic monologues, or partaking in eccentric rhetoric is the charm of the Necrons...

My problem with current Necrons is that they are wholly vestigial. They have no place of their own in the setting. They don't have a 'thing' that makes them them, they just have other factions' dressed up in ridiculous Egyptian apparel.

>ancient alien empire that once ruled the galaxy
>based aesthetically on a pre - Christian culture
>possess incredible technology
>exceptionally proud and haughty, believe younger races should know their place
>old empire has fallen and they are split into disparate factions all over the galaxy
>due to their mortal failings brought evil god(s) into the galaxy
>said god(s) took their souls and now they are facing a slow decline where their very identities are in danger of being lost
>have a caste of seers that predict the future

Sound familiar at all?

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>>49951811
>another note is that Necrodermis no longer is depicted as the material of all necrons, just the skin of the C'tan

This was ALWAYS how the codex used the term. A necrodermis - note the article - is the living metal body of a C'tan. A necrodermis is made of living metal. Living metal is not called "necrodermis". Necrons are made of living metal, but necrodermis is not the name for it.

To reiterate: no Necron codex, Oldcron or Newcron, has ever referred to the living metal Necrons are made from as necrodermis. Not once. The idea is one of the most pervasive misconceptions about Necrons/40k fluff in general around.
Even Carnac >>49951842 gets it wrong, presumably because he doesn't English so good.

>>49952719
So you are basically saying to anyone who wants an army of necrons that isn't like every other army if necrons "fuck you, bad wrong fun"

On the transfer vs copy debate, I can imagine that if we go the copy interpretation that adds a layer of irony to there dismissal of the "false necrons" because the distinction is pure fiction under that premise

>>49954768
>gets it wrong

Stop lying to people. Necrodermis IS living metal.

>>49955674
To back up my claim and prove that this anon is a clown >>49954768 read this

>Something felt wrong. Something always felt wrong after the tachyon arrow’s deployment. It was a last resort weapon, a choice only made in the direst of circumstances.

>A fraction of him was missing, nearly as intangible as the sliver of his necrodermis used to form the tachyon arrow. A fraction of what made Anrakyr the Traveller, of what drove the great necron overlord, had been denuded away and lost to oblivion. It ached, the void, but he could not identify what was gone.

-Shield of Baal Devouter

Numerous novels and stories (and IIRC source books as well) refer to Necron bodies as being made of Necrodermis. Necrodermis is another name for living metal. Can this stupid debate end?

In the future ignore anything that anon >>49954768 says. He is an agenda of spreading misinformation.

>>49955889
That contradicts what I read in the world engine where the Ruler of Borsis had taken the necrodermis the world maker had used for his use and it was treated as unique and a big deal

>>49955953
All Necrons are made of Necrodermis but not all necrodermis is equal. Some are more sophisticated and finely crafted than the others. The ones made to chain and contain the C'tan would be on top.

>>49956003
Ahh, that helps clear it up alot

>>49950446
>not_if_i_shift_into_maximum_frownderdrive.jpg

>>49952719
Well than I am glad that you aren't a writer for GW, because you missed about 4/5ths of what makes a intresting and fun army.

You have a singular point, with no reason for variation, no reason for changing tactics, no reason to customize or convert, no reason to even include them in the setting, and no reason what so ever to play them. Even Oldcrons had the ability to play with their forces a bit, but what you suggest is anti-thesis to the hobby in general.

Even Tyranids, in their drive to consume everything, are presented as dangerously adaptive and intelligent. They allow players to create a variety of armies in many different colors and shapes, and allow players to try different tactics. While the Hivemind may lack a personality overall, the tactics and stratagies employed by the HiveFleets give them a personality all their own.

And Orkz? Orkz are individual to the extreme. They can be heros in their own sort of weird, Orky way. They can build tribes and armies and fleets, allowing us, the hobbyists, to actually make our own stories.

By robbing the Necrons of any purpose but to aimlessly reboot their AI overlord, while also removing any sort of intelligence, you essentially made them a Non-factor in 40k. You might as well not even give them a codex, as they are pretty much nothing without their AI.

And tell me, have you ever played a army where your best tactic is just fucking "Move and Shoot"? Its boring as fuck.

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>>49955674
Made of living metal, yeah. Not a name for living metal.

>>49955889
Pervasive indeed.

Oldcron codex:
>Warscythes are made from the same living metal as the hulls of Necron ships and the C'tan necrodermis

>When they walk among mortals, though, they are clad in a necrodermis which binds their essence.

Newcron codex:
>The only hope of defeating a C'tan is to breach its necrodermis - the living metal form that cages its essence.

>C'tan Shards are bound by a living metal necrodermis which both protects and contains their essence.

NewNewcron codex:
>The only hope of defeating a C’tan is to breach its necrodermis – the living shell that cages its raging essence and binds it to the material plane.

>>49956442
Nobody will believe your lies.

>A sarcophagus rose from the highest tier, pitched vertically. The front was transparent, revealing the ornate chassis of Nazkehl. She was still clad in ancient wisps of frayed fabric. One hand clutched the sceptre of her authority while the other crossed over to hold a recurved sword.

>Glass slowly hinged open and lights played along the phaerakh’s chassis. Her mouth yawned open.

>She screamed.

>Valnyr and her lychguard recoiled back. They knew the sound. They’d heard it before. It was the same static-laced cry of the necrons whose minds were corrupted and controlled by the flayer virus.

>‘The phaerakh is cursed,’ cried one of the lychguard.

>Nazkehl fell to her knees, cables detaching from her body, hissing and flapping with escaping vapour and energy. Long-fingered hands, tapered with rippling necrodermis talons, clawed at the stone of her ziggurat. The corrupted phaerakh snaked her clawed hand around Valnyr’s shinbones. She looked up, met the cryptek’s horrified gaze. The static-scream echoed from her open maw.

Necrons made from Necrodermis!

>>49956662
>>49956442
This seems to be a very simple problem, thw writers don't have it strait themselves

>>49956156
>Even Tyranids, in their drive to consume everything, are presented as dangerously adaptive and intelligent.

more like they are presented as retards that lose 90% of the time in fluff. including their own codex

>>49956793
True, but in prior codexes, they have done well. For example, the Assault on Macragge, and the Swarmlord making Big Daddy Calgar his bitch.

>>49930519
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rapecrons

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rapecrons_2:_The_Probing

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>>49931185

>>49956156
he has clearly stated he doesn't give a shit about diversity or customization, he thinks anyone who has fun differently from him is doing it wrong

File: Hive-Fleet-Jormungandr.jpg (1MB, 2301x1615px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49956709
Thing is though, every edition of the codex has been consistent with this. GW don't take the greatest care with their terminology, especially around the C'tan*, but the codex has only ever used necrodermis as the term for a C'tan's physical body.

It's something anyone should be able to see for themselves: open the book, look at where and how the word is used, then see how it's literally never used to mean anything else. Yet the belief that necrodermis = name for living metal persists, and it's no surprise that we've got BL authors who think the meme version is correct as a result.

* See all the confusion over what C'tan eat, or how the latest codex replaced Tesseract Labyrinths with Tesseract Vaults and Tesseract Vaults with Tesseract Labyrinths, and also accidentally retconned regular C'tan Shards out of existence while still acknowledging that they exist.

>>49956824
But Behemoth was defeated at Macragge, which renders any and all earlier accomplishments null and void. At least I think that's how people judge the hive fleet fluff in the last two Tyranid dexes, even though Behemoth being destroyed and Kraken being splintered are both pre-Crud.

>>49931219
>how do we represent de wimmens skellingtons?
>we put boobies on dem.
>boobies and pigtails.

>>49960336
meh I like them. Going to put them on the vehicles. Always thought it odd that since only Civilians were given warrior bodies why are all the vehicles piloted by them? Besides if you are going to ride into battle in a glorious chariot I would want my drivers with some nice Battery Packs and USB hook up dreads.

To each his own royal court I suppose.