Flames of War General - Iron Maiden Edition

***BIG NEWS FROM BATTLEFRONT***

>http://www.wwpd.net/2016/10/why-we-fight-ep-7-tanks-tracks-bang.html

V4 confirmed for March or April of 2017!

Things will be streamlined similar to TY, but it will certainly not be a TY copy.

They're still working on it, so any constructive comments they receive now will be taken into account (which is one of the reasons they're bringing this info forward now).

Book size will be similar to TY. A lot of the trimming down will be by not addressing every minute nuance/edge case in the main rules, shifting that online.

Current Early and Late War books will remain valid, virtually everything in them will still work fine.

There will be a LLW compilation at some point, which will follow V3 standards (and viable to use with V3 rules) but be written with V4 in mind.

Mid-War will be given a rework with TY-style unit cards and loads of plastics, starting with Brits/Germans then adding more NA stuff before going to the Eastern Front.

As with TY, cards will not be required, but they're looking at options to get them to players who want them because they already have the minis.

Release for this is intended to be at the same time as the Version 4 rules.

They've got two separate external rules writers working on converting Vietnam and AIW to Team Yankee rule system, and will be including new forces in there as well.

This includes the Yom Kippur War.

Points values for this will be another era, basically Early Cold War, but 'nam and AIW will be fully compatible.

Also, plastic Hueys in the pipeline.

They do intend to make purchases in Forces not wasted, probably by giving you the new V4 version of a list if you bought the V3 version.

>>49927462
>They're still working on it, so any constructive comments they receive now will be taken into account
So where do we make these constructive comments? Because I somehow doubt they're looking at us.

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Opinion asked for. Six T-35s, 3 BT-7As, One KV-1 Obr 1939, HMG Portees, Katyushas and I-153s.

>>49927878
>So where do we make these constructive comments?

On the official forum, I'd imagine.

>Because I somehow doubt they're looking at us.

Officially, probably not. Unofficially, they probably are aware of us.

>>49928088
>On the official forum, I'd imagine.

Yeah, I don't have the direct link since I'm not in the the official forums, but that's the most likely place to look.

Otherwise the WWPD forums are probably a safe bet as well.

Do bunker busters/breakthrough guns negate bulletproof cover saves?

>>49928350
Yes.

>>49928350
>>49928368
They negate the save, but still need to take the firepower check caused by bulletproof cover. Though I don't think there's a single Breakthrough Gun/Bunker Buster without FP 1+ or 2+.

>>49928381
Rule of thumb, guns with a caliber of 100mm or more have Breakthrough Gun (with the exception of a few pure anti-tank guns like the soviet BS-3) and FP 2+. Guns with a caliber of 149mm or more have bunker buster and FP 1+

Reading through some books, and it seems that the British tank brigades with Churchills had dedicated OP Churchills to call in artillery support. Would that be better represented as a psudo-AOP (independent team you purchase that can spot for any battery with a staff team), or as an upgrade for the Observer teams in the artillery batteries? And how many points do you think would be fair? I was figuring ~20 points by itself, 10pts as an upgrade (still has the hull MG, but the main gun is replaced with a wooden dummy).

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>>49927462
>Things will be streamlined similar to TY, but it will certainly not be a TY copy
Could be cool.

Has anybody ITT gotten to use Iron Maiden yet? How was it?

>>49928006
Against enemy infantry lists you should do pretty well. You are going to have a lot of trouble with tank lists, especially lists with lots of light/medium tanks. I'd think about ditching the confident potato KV-1 for some T-26s.

>>49928088
I doubt they're that aware, or the book dump would be DMC'd.

Do y ou think Artillery will ever get streamlined? Because it's a clunker in my opinion, what with the ranging in factor and the occasional double-width template.

Aside from Battlefront, who else makes plastic US Paratroopers?

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Panzerspah guy from last thread. How does this list look? I used ArmyBuilder for it, sorry if the format looks screwy.

>Command 223, 2iC 223

>2x Light Panzerspah (4x 2cm 222, 2x Radio 223)
>2x Light Panzerspah (4x 2cm 222, 2x Radio 223)
3x Heavy Panzerspah (6x 231 8-rad)

>Scutzen Spah Platoon (Command SMG, 4x MG, 1x 3.7cm halftrack, 3x 250/10 halftracks)
>Armored Car Platoon (3x 233 7.5 cm halftracks)
>Anti-tank Platoon (4x 5cm PaK38 guns, Command SMG. Kfz 15 car, 4x kfz trucks)

>Afrika Scutzen Platoon (Command MG, 6x MG, Kubelwagon, 3x kfz 70 truck. 2x 5cm PaK 38 guns, 250/10 halftrack)

List is at 1500 points.

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Newfag question. Am I reading it wrong, or is a Parachute Rifle/MG Team made up of two bases of 4 dudes, with every other base having an MG?

>>49931881
rifle/mg is like the bastard child of a rifle and mg team. while there are MGs in the team, the relatively smaller numbers mean there's not as much ROF as a pure MG team. it's however many stands there are in your platoon with 4 lil' dudes on them.

>>49931881
>>49931913

Athough the difference is more or less conjecture; the difference is small enough that you can just call them rifle/mg teams one game and have them be pure rifle teams the next. More or less about being clear to your opponent what they are.

>>49931881
Yeah, that's what they intended.

It's a balancing act between fast game play and accurate game play.

It would otherwise be one rifle team with RoF 1 and one MG team with RoF 3.

So they simplified it to 2 Rifle/MG teams each with RoF 2.

You're still getting the same number of shots either way.

>>49931764
I'm not a mid-war player, but it seems decent.

My one concern is the uneven platoon count, but it seems like you have a decent mix of anti-infantry and anti-tank abilities.

>>49931750
Speaking of which, who makes the better infantry, Battlefront or Plastic Soldier Company?

>>49931750
As far as I know, only Battlefront, and only in the Open Fire starter set.

>>49932220
PSC has had some notable screw-ups with their infantry.

Most notably with how they sculpted German style equipment webbing on their US infantry.

>>49932256
That's a shame, seeing as how the PSC infantry tends to be much cheaper than Battlefront.

>>49932243
>and only in the Open Fire starter set
That's a bit odd, seeing as how they have lists made entirely out of paratroopers.

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>>49927462

Sounds pretty awesome. If it plays as quickly as Team Yankee I bet my LGS might actually get some players again.

Tossing the dice and trying to make MW the default era is a good idea, too. LW is such a clusterfuck.

>>49932304
Part of that is also that PSC infantry are supplied without bases.

>>49932088
The intent is to attach the pak platoon to the light spahs, driving forward and planting down to harass the grants and brens on the way. Makes an even platoon number, and keeps the enemy in place as I flank. My partner brings nebs and panzers out the wazoo, so there will be actual hitting power present. Maybe 88s, too?

>>49932321
How much do bases cost, honestly? Unless they're made from the ashes of dead Jews (for that nice period feel) they shouldn't cost too much.

>>49932313
At one point BF announced that they would be making plastic US Paras outside of the Open Fire set, but they never materialized.

All we have are the metal figures or the Open Fire plastics.

>>49932315
I don't know about it becoming the default era, but it's long overdue for some attention.

It hasn't seen any new releases since Version 2, and even those were supposedly just reprints of the V1 stuff.

>>49932315
>LW is such a clusterfuck.

Late War is detailed. Almost ever major campaign, especially on the Western Front, has been given detailed books about the forces involved.

Mid-War needs that kind of detail. Having only North Afrika and Ostfront for Mid-War books is pitiful for such an important and interesting part of the war.

>>49932527
>>49932579

Definitely. I think they wrote themselves into a corner with the really generic/universal lists. There's definitely potential to detail the battles of Kharkov, the counter-attack near Moscow, et cetera.

And LW is definitely brilliantly marketed. You have all these things that were just footnotes in history that BF developed in books/lists. Inexperienced panzer crews get themselves surrounded in the Lorraine - new list. An SS training unit puts up an unexpectedly good fight against veteran Americans - new list. Up through the release of Berlin I almost felt like WWII was something unfolding and not something that's been settled for 7 decades.

Is it cool to post lists ITT?

>>49932796
Go for it. What are you looking for advice on?

>>49932829
I'm new to this whole thing, so I'm looking for general advice alongside list specific advice.

Parachute Rifle Company, 500 points.

++Headquarters++
Company HQ (45)
-Command SMG Team

++Combat Platoons++
Parachute Rifle Platoon (225)
-2 Rifle Squads
-HQ Bazooka Team

Parachute Rifle Platoon (225)
-2 Rifle Squads
-HQ Bazooka Team

Grand total of 495 points. First list ever, so please advise on any retardation.

>>49932947

FoW punishes creativity so you there's certain nigh-mandatory units you want depending on your company type.

For infantry you want 8 total platoons in a full size list. You want some artillery, some heavy weapons to cross-attach to your platoons (since they're small), some AT guns to ambush with, supporting tank platoon, that sort of thing. Be wary of junky support units: AA without gun shields, light field guns in platoons of 2, that sort of thing.

In the case of elite infantry you usually end up having to skimp a bit on support since your platoons are pricy. IE, cheaper units like Hetzers or basic M10's in support.

>>49932947
Small, but capable. Decent against both tanks and infantry. Especially at such a low point value.

Which book are you using to build your list?

Overlord and Market-Garden are both good, but The Battle of the Bulge also has some great options.

>>49932947
For that points level, you're fine. That's the backbone of an American infantry list. The first rule of that is MORE BAZOOKA. Gotta have those zooks. Granted you're at the limit but when you can bring more, bring more bazooka. Artillery is nicely costed with great rules, but imo our tanks are a bit over costed and don't perform as well as German counterparts. Don't depend on at emmplacements to work as well, you'll need to hit their sides.

>>49933050
I'll take all that into account, though I'm not sure if I can put all that in a 500 point list.

>>49933058
>Small, but capable. Decent against both tanks and infantry. Especially at such a low point value
Stop it Anon, you're making me blush. And I'm using the Battle of the Bulge book, actually.

>>49932947
Pretty good for such a small list. There isn't too much more you can do with US Paratroopers at only 500 points.

>>49933050
>For infantry you want 8 total platoons in a full size list.

Not always possible with Fearless Veteran forces. Especially depending on the points limit. I find 6 platoons is a more reasonable expectation for FV forces.

>>49933082

Oh, the whole list is 500 points. I figured this was just the basis of an army. Is the league/game going to be Infantry Aces, out of curiosity?

>>49933075
If I could, I'd legit give every Rifle Squad a bazooka.

>>49933098
>Is the league/game going to be Infantry Aces, out of curiosity?
I honestly don't know. My area has a fairly casual group, so I'm not building for a league or anything, I just want something to start with.

>>49933121
500 points is a good place to start, but 750 points or 1000 points will give you a better feel for how full-sized (1500 to 1750 points) games will play.

>>49933202
I'm planning on going to 1K ASAP, but I'm starting with 500 because it's cheap, and it'll give me an army to play with while I paint the other 500 points.

Where do my fellows Burgers order their minis from? Wayland Games has good prices and reasonable shipping, but I dunno how long it'd take coming from the UK.

>>49933229
What are your thoughts for 1000?

I'd suggest maybe some MGs or Morars for more anti-infantry capability and some anti-tank guns to add some range to your anti-tank weaponry. Bazookas are good, but they don't have much reach.

>>49933277
I figure I'll grab some Shermans (dunno which variant) first and foremost, then some AT Guns + Arty. Maybe some MG Teams and Air Support? I'll burn that bridge when I get to it I guess.

>>49933272
The War Store, based out of Riverhead, NY is pretty good.

Miniature Market, based out of Saint Louis, MO is also pretty good.

>>49933319
Seconding both of those.

I've used them both and was happy with both of them.

Also, technically ordering from The War Store counts for me as me still supporting a "Local" Game Store. If 60 miles away from my house still counts as "local".

>>49933272
I also have an order on the way from Wayland. The emailed me Thursday saying that my order had shipped. I'll let you know when I get it here in NY.

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>>49933501
>I'll let you know when I get it here in NY
Absolutely based.

>>49933319
I order most of my stuff through them, and a lot from ebay as well

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So I've finally gotten around to updating this thing to v0.6. Still 100% fanmade bullshit, so don't go trying to use this without your opponent's permission. And feel free to point out when I'm being dumb.

New stuff:
>Churchill OP tanks
Purchased as an independent observer team, can only be gotten if you have a Churchill VI in your force. That limits it to lists with NW Europe Churchills, since they used Stuarts for the role in Italy, while allowing it to be used by infantry/mechanized companies with Churchill support. Much slower than an AOP, and doesn't give the extra re-roll, but doesn't die to AA .50s everywhere.
>Heavies Forward
"Jumbos Lead the Way" for Churchill VIIs, with the additional caveat that you have to actually be leading the way (be the closest tank).

Changes:
>Medium Artillery support increased to 35pts.
It's 30pts as an upgrade to the light howitzers in MG, but I figure it's better to err a bit higher in points, even as an addition to 25pdrs that have better bombardment stats.
>Tip and Run Training is now +5pts per two teams
Because Archers suck, but it's still good enough to require some points expenditure.
>Clarification on wording and rules for Rocket Rails and AVRE attachments
Straightforward
>Grant CDL no longer removes concealment from night
The strobing that dazzles the target is going to make it trickier to see the target, so even with something that bright they'd be concealed.
>Air Interdiction removed
Air support points are a bit off, but this wasn't a good way to solve that.
>Eight Tradesmen no longer applies when gaping or in transports
Just making it simpler and more logical.

>>49933834
You could suggest these changes to the Version 4 suggestion threads on the official forum.

>>49933229
I'd recommend focusing on infantry 'solutions' first - if you're starting out with them, learn to wield them properly before dropping cash on expensive (points wise) tanks. Once you're used to your army, dabble with mechanized if it's your thing. Personally I love my MW armored gents - one big block of men (CT, unfortunately, but numbers trump that) with LMGS and about half a dozen bazookas each. Even has a few Sherman's to keep the enemy back, but those are expensive as hell (to me). Downsides are that it suffers at long range and a low platoon count.

I recently came into possession of a shit ton of little 2 man bases and various figures (american). I want to build an OSS detachment, but is there anything else i could build as an allies player?

I like oss just because of the rules they get in midwar, will take all sudgesstions.

>>49934089
Is that all you have? Can you see what they're armed with?

>>49934391
Bought them cheap from a guy who mas/clearence bought the minis. They appear to be a combo of us (troops/para) and scatteriengs of brit troops. They came with like 40 smaller bases. The ones about galf the size of the four man bases. They are cast metal, some flashing. I need a small base army to use them with, since they wont be able to count as full/regular bases of rifle teams.

>>49933272
The Warstore. They're quick, friendly, reliable, and they match any sale Battlefront does. They also tend to have their own sales and offers.

I've ordered probably $600 worth of FoW from them and never had a problem. Also, their shipping caps at like $7, so its really cheap to have it shipped out to wherever you live.

>>49934638
Hope you like pasta, because your guys are suited for the breakout in Italy. In the Road to Rome book there's a First Special Service Force detachment rated FT. They had combined arms US/Canadian commando unit. It's late war but the nice thing is that there's a paired german/italian book with it (Fortress Italy) that the rest of your group can use, if they do that sort of thing.

I'm a historical gamer, so we pick out the literal battle with similar force comps and see if we changed history, then drink booze and discuss the battle afterwords.

http://fowlists.blogspot.com/2014/07/road-to-rome-us-first-special-service.html

>>49934828
Oh shit nigga.

Thanks, this was what i was looking for. I didmt want to be trapped in mid and early war.

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From Facebook... I'm excited!

>>49936583
>Plastic Tiger

I FUCKING KNEW IT

"OH NO, THEY'D NEVER RELEASE A PLASTIC TIGER, NOBODY NEEDS THAT!"

HA WELL FUCK YOU LOOK WHO'S LAUGHING NOW

>>49936602
Eh. Fuck the Tiger.

But they've got a most adorable little puma. I hope they sell them in 5-packs, I'm already gearing up for 15.

>>49936602
I think the success of Tanks is what made a plastic Tiger feasible.

>>49936711
Tanks is finally back in stock at my LFGS. Might be too late after the initial hype died a horrible death due to unavailability, but I do hope it catches on.

I'm guessing the fresh look at MW is more relevant though - history buffs love the Pz. III, but you need a plastic Tiger for the publicity. Then again, those are LW wheels on that sample. I assume the kit will have both.

>>49936602
It has zimmerit though.

Would be a reason for me to ditch the PSC tiger and get BF tigers.

>>49936878
They sold out of 6 weeks worth of world-wide stock in 2 weeks.

So yeah, it was a success. But the question now is did it survive the unavailability caused by selling out that quickly?

>>49936986
Hype. Absolute HYPE.

>>499369866
They finally got it in at the FLGS. Thought I would be able to wait until the Tuesday I normally come in. They sold out of pretty much everything in 2 days. Who knows when they will get a restock.

I think it will survive. I am hoping to play some games with the guys who did buy the rules until I can get my copy of the game in.

>>49936583
>>49936602
MY DIIIICCKKKK

>>49936958

Screw zimmerit. Let people sculpt it on if they want it. I just want plain tanks I can paint hinterhalt camo onto or do the LLW dunkelgelb over primer thing to.

Do Banzai and Gung-Ho have any DLC?

>>49938037
Not yet. Not that I know of anyway.

>>49938024
Go buy PSC tigers then.

Sculpting on zimmerit at 15mm is for criminals.

>>49938051
That's cool, I just wanted to know how much Battlefront was gonna nickle & dime me.

>>49938037
Speaking of which, any word on a Pacific Theater compilation?

>>49936583

I'd like to offer thanks to Plastic Soldier Company for starting an arms race. Battlefront was getting lazy and was still trying to sell players shitty metal figures with pumpkin heads from 2002 like the British infantry. They were dragged kicking and screaming into the 2010's(they even tried to buy PSC) but now they're actually having to compete for players' dollars and everyone is better off for it.

>>49938024
Zimmerit was discontinued the month after Tiger I production ended. That means all late production Tigers (the ones with steel wheels like in that picture) should have it.

No panzer gray Tigers would have zimmerit. For six months (Feb. to Aug. 1943), Tigers were produced in dunkelgelb before zimmerit became a thing. Most, but not all mid-production Tigers (late cupola but dished, rubber-rimmed wheels) would have had zimmerit.

I'm hoping they'll have a non-zimmerit hull top with early version details. Here's a comprehensive breakdown of when every little change was made (not including color changes).
http://missing-lynx.com/panzer_facts/pftiger.htm

>>49936583
Plastic US Paras pls.

>>49938140
There only are those two books.

What is there to compile?

>>49938190
Hear hear

>>49938190
They tried to buy PSC?

I've never heard of that before.

>>49938190
>(they even tried to buy PSC)

Source? I know some people *suggested* they should do it, but AFAIK that was just wishful thinking.

>>49938190
Sometimes I feel like BF don't get enough respect for making one of the better set of WWII rules out there (out of thousands) and, mostly, for offering models that cover some very obscure infantry and vehicle options. I'm happy to pay a premium to enable them to do that. They're also more responsive (as in, responsive at all) when they make a historical accuracy mistake in their models.

On the other hand, you're right, they needed a push. Their hand-sculpted resins often look cartoony, and their metal casting is just plain bad. I can't help but recommend The PSC models when the BF equivalent is resin+metal.

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>>49938190
>(they even tried to buy PSC)

>>49939850
>>49938352

Yeah, heard from a friend of a friend who works in the industry that BF was mad as hell when PSC released the T-34s and Panzer IVs.

Couple dumb question from a beginner:

1) I'm fascinating at the idea of a fortified company, but what happens if two fortified companies play against each other? I'm assuming not all your matches involve sitting in your trenches and rolling dice? I like the idea of having the other guy come to me and deploying ambush units and so forth.

2) What's the importance behind having even numbers of platoons? Is having, for example, 7 platoons so terribly bad that you'd rather break up a strong platoon to have two weaker platoons to make it 8?

Thankee

>>49940290
There's a "No Man's Land" mission just for two fortified companies facing off against each other. But really, you want to have enough models so that you can run a normal infantry army every once in a while.

The even numbers is for the sake of reserves... but I'll let someone who isn't new explain the details.

>>49940290
Many missions have reserves and forces you to leave half your formations rounded up on the bench. Also company morale, making you roll after the destruction of more than half of your formations.
Having an uneven number screws you over.

>>49940290
>I'm fascinating at the idea of a fortified company, but what happens if two fortified companies play against each other?
Well, first, you find out how to capture that unicorn you just ran into.
More seriously, you play in the trenches, because otherwise one of you is getting fucked out of a chunk of your points and has to go against their normal gameplan while the other gets everything just fine. Luckily for you, very few people play fortified companies, so turtle wars are going to be infrequent.

>What's the importance behind having even numbers of platoons?
Say you have 7 platoons. When deploying units in a mission with reserves, you get to deploy only *3* of those 7, leaving the other 4 off table. When it comes to morale tests, having 4 of those platoons killed forces a company morale test. If you had 6 platoons, you'd still only deploy 3 and still take morale at 4, but now you have individually stronger platoons (presumably). If you went to 8 platoons by splitting one, you now get to place *4* platoons on the field in reserves missions, and need to lose *5* to take a company morale test. Worst case, splitting the platoon does effectively nothing. Average case, it lets you place another important platoon on the board in missions with reserves (most of them), while needing to lose effectively the same number of platoons, assuming they kill the two shorter platoons instead of the larger one they would be otherwise. Best case (small platoons are easily hidden and the single platoon they were before rarely gets targeted or destroyed), you get an extra platoon from reserves and they need to kill another important platoon to start forcing company morale tests.

>>49940571
>>49940659
Note, in tournaments, there's an exception to "always be even in number" for 9 platoons. This is because 9 platoons is the magic point where you get to ignore a dead platoon for determining your victory points, and you want to maximize those (obviously).

Thank you all, very helpful to know.

I gotta say, making lists is pretty fun, there's so many different books and lists and equipment available it boggle the mind.

Any tips for someone looking to get into the game on building a Tankovy Battalion? My friends play late war so thats what I'd be building for. Also I'd like to try and fit in some rocket artillery and a platoon of something heavy as a centerpiece.

>>49940945
In the beginning when you've only bought half the models, you might want to run Hero lists. Hero motostrelk are fine, but Hero tankovy not so much. Normal tankovy is fine. Hen & Chicks hurts, but it means your tanks are about 2/3 normal price. The idea is to keep one company still for good shooting while the other one moves. Leapfrog them. T-34/85s for anti-tank duty, /76s for assaulting things (consider tank riders). The bedspring armor from Berlin lists help. 7-8 seems to be a favored company size.

Make sure to take recon of some sort in addition to the other goodies you want to take.

>>49941106
Alright, thanks. Any particular book that stands out or should I just use the free Tankovy list available for now? As I understand it the late war books I should be looking into are Red Bear and Grey Wolf, right? One of my friends also said maybe a book called Desperate Measures too but I can't seem to see that one.

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>>49938190
>tried to buy PSC
Fucking kiwis get oooouuttt!

>>49941203

You want Red Bear. Grey Wolf is axis forces on the eastern front

Has anybody ITT met a German player who was an IRL Nazi?

>>49941203
Red bear first comrade. Branch out to desperate pleasures and berlin when you get tired of it. Personally, I would say Berlin completly replaces desperate measures.

>>49940945
>platoon of something heavy as a centerpiece

You could try to bring a heavy assault gun company out of red bear (NOT the hero one from berlin). The Gvardeyskiy Tyazhelyy Tankovy out of Red Bear can also give you some heavy tank options. Though the KV series is a bit outdated in LW and the concensus is that IS-2s are bad.

Your other option is bringing a lot of T-34s with a company of heavy assault guns as some solid support against heavy tanks and dug in infantry. If you want rocket artillery you can definitely have it, though I prefer heavy mortars.

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>>49941359
>desperate pleasures

>>49941347
>>49941359
Thanks again comrades, just grabbed Red Bear from the OP links now. Any good listbuilders available beyond the official one? I'm more used to army lists being more consolidated than this to learn while I build. If not I'll just start from the beginning with reading through stuff so no worries.

>>49941386
>IS-2s are bad
>KVs outdated
Why must my friends play late war germans?
Jokes aside what about the ISU line? I'm fond of 122s and 152s.

I just really like katyushas so I figured I'd have fun with them even if they aren't the best option. Is it possible for me to take some cheaper mortars for smoke support in conjunction with them or would that be too redundant?

Sorry if this is a lot of questions, its just this is the first time I've seriously sat down to give this some thought. If it helps my friends play German Mechanized, German Armored, American Airborne, and if I remember right some kind of Combined Arms Brits.

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>>49941401
What feeling does that image even convey?
>I am so out of touch

>>49941604

fowlists.blogspot has a decent one, though they don't have all the books.

>>49941612
I'm not quite sure myself, it just felt appropriate.

>>49941604
>Is it possible for me to take some cheaper mortars for smoke support in conjunction with them or would that be too redundant?
Sorry to ruin things for you, but soviets don't get smoke.

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>>49941604

...Anonymous
10/25/16(Tue)02:27:02 No.49941604
>>49941347 #
>>49941359 (You) #
Thanks again comrades, just grabbed Red Bear from the OP links now. Any good listbuilders available beyond the official one? I'm more used to army lists being more consolidated than this to learn while I build. If not I'll just start from the beginning with reading through stuff so no worries.

>>49941386 #
>what about the ISU line? I'm fond of 122s and 152s.
They are fine. Kills dug in infantry and also has good AT.

>I just really like katyushas
Minimum katys are great and super cheap but larger units are also good. They are made out of paper so they are better as an attacker since they have less of a risk of being shot at.

>smoke support
>smoke
Comrade I....

>>49933096
FV tank/mech, sure. You can get FV infantry down alright.

>>49941661
Checking it out now

>>49941700
Pinning stuff with barrages it is then

>>49933272
Would not use Wayland. They're really quite bad.

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>>49941349

I'm a Monarchist/Tradcon who plays Germans(MW Afrika Korps, LW infantry, LLW panzerschule, working on EW mech/armor) and I think the Holocaust was exaggerated.

I play with 2 guys and 1 girl who are actual Nazis but they're more into Saga, Bolt Action, and 40K.

AMA, I guess?

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>>49941947
Uh.
Let's go back to discussing toy tanks instead.

>>49941947
What's it like being Twelve?

>>49941947
>AMA, I guess?
I'd prefer not to.

P.S. You disgrace Der Alte Fritz.

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So I'm assembling my hero cossacks.
2x5 ponies + hq horsies sounded like a good number to go with.
Should I take more/less?

Also, assembling cav is almost as soul destroying as motorcycles.

>>49942128

>horseys
>on a team yankee backdrop

I want to believe

>>49941612
no. its the children that are wrong.

skinner.jpg

Is Flames of War: Vietnam any good?

>>49941349
yeah they're around.

common traits:
>LW tank lists.;
>sweaty
>desperate to let you know they're a nazi
>memes
>easybeat practically give away points in tournaments
>holahoax didn't happen but the jews had it coming.
>did i mention easy beat?

in far more important news does anyone know if the war store will ever restock their fow shit?

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>>49941604
IS-85s are certainly a doable option of you want something heavy with a turret. Otherwise the ISU-152 and ISU-122 are good options when supported well. Battlefront sells a nice plastic box of them. You can even pin the guns so you can swap between the 122 and 152 mm.

>>49942313

From what we know it's gonna be rolled into Team Yankee.

As to how Vietnam plays, I never played it so beats me.

>>49942434
>From what we know it's gonna be rolled into Team Yankee
Elaborate pls. Is Team Yankee gonna become the post-WW2 ruleset or something?

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Back with my first stab at list building, ended up going with the official builder since the lists were only a dollar and it actually feels really nice to use.

I feel like I'm not fielding a lot but I'm always unsure of my own lists.

>>49942423
I'll take a look at them then, also thanks for the tip about pinning them. Sounds pretty handy.

>>49942722
Comrade
Take either ISUs or SU-100s, not both. If SU-100s, take 5 or none.
6 are too few pioneers.
Drop the aa-guns from the katys unless you have a plan.
Take this advice as opinion, not facts.
Davai!

>>49942334
>if the war store will ever restock their fow shit?
For real though, they're out of a lot of stuff.

>>49942821
I'll starting playing around with building lists with one or the other.

Honestly I took the aa-guns there because it was a cheap place to fit them in and I had 50 points left, so yeah not a great reason.

>>49942885
No that's a fine reason. But aim for even platoons/companies, aa trucks are cheap.

>>49941349
Yeah, tried to cover it with some irony but was really into the whole ubermensch thing. Went pretty much like the Peep Show bit where Darrel's a nazi.

>>49942434
It's alright. You have way more to play with on the US/PAVN/etc side, but the rules are set up very different so it's not as WW2-in-X as AIW was.

>>49942460
Yes.

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>>49943024
I just finished, but I almost feel like trying again with even more tanks.

>>49944005
Looks pretty solid to me.
Try it out comrade!

>>49944055
All thats left is to check prices, form a buy list, and put a bit of fun money away for it all. I think I remember seeing some discussion about places to buy when I glanced through the thread earlier so that seems like a good place.

>>49944163

Miniature Market or War Store are my go to places for ordering online

Nowadays I just buy everything at my FLGS because if they go up there's nobody to play

>>49944401
Just checked out war store awhile ago, seemed fine. I'll look at Miniature Market next. I would buy locally if I could but my local flgs doesn't stock any WW2 minis at all.

On a side note sort of leaning towards removing the tank rider company and instead picking up a heavy mortar company and wagon for the sappers for delicious mines.

>>49944483

Basically I use war store for small orders as they have flat shipping iirc. Miniature market has free shipping for $100+ orders.

Unit price is about the same for each.

>>49944667
Minimarket has the option for the same flat rate economy shipping, actually, and there's the reward points, with their bonus on flames of war stuff you can save a few bucks

>>49945188
MM doesn't stock PSC though, which gives WS an edge.

>>49945261
I buy psc from ebay, there's stores there that sell it cheaper and with free shipping

>>49932220
Definitely BF, though PSC has tidy army in a box style sets, if you don't mind the stiff poses and lack of variety. Also the problem with the US guys having the wrong webbing, and their first german kits being kinda crap. Their Russians aren't too bad though.

>>49932679
Hopefully the new go at MW will address its shortcomings. And yeah, for everyone complains about Berlin, there's lots of little details from the battle in there, right down to two hole Elephants taking part, and the like, or the captured soviet artillery set up in the Tiergarten.

>>49941349
Yes, though he's pretty chill, and actually german, and his family is distantly related to Rommel, which makes him being a Nazi even more funny to me.

If you couldn't guess, he plays SS, though borrows my MW Heer for our Stalingrad games and the like.

>>49944005
Honestly for now you don't have to worry about the perfect list. I'd just start buying the bread and butter stuff like T-34s and the ISU-152/122 box. You can start getting those assembled and painted while you think about what else you'd like. I bought a ton of strelkovy before I knew what I was doing or what I wanted to play. I am only now getting back to painting them. Even if you are experienced with the hobby aspects, the list you want to run may change once you get some game experience.

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>>49948365
Well thats something of a relief since I keep fiddling with the list. I think part of the problem is I have no sense of how things compare to units in other army lists or how many units I should have in comparison to similar armies.

For example I care the least about what sort of infantry I use, I was leaning towards something reminicient of shock infantry but I keep veering back to sappers before the list is finished since they feel like the best value of numbers to points. At the same time though I don't know how much they want a supply wagon since it doesn't feel like you get a lot from it, but I don't know if otherwise I am lacking defensively.

I guess I'll just start with the T34s, ISUs, and Katyushas since they're favorites of mine. Other soviet units I like that I might want to branch into are B3s, shock troops and penal troops. So in the future I might want to also pick up a shock army.

BMP-2

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Saw an anon posting his WIP of the stronk 203mm Soviet Howitzers. Went out and bought 4 of my own. Still have some cleaning up to do on this one after the glue dries, but it went together pretty easily. Well aside from when I accidentally spilt the model in half bending the trail for the gun to fit in snuggly.

Anyway my goal is to have all 4 of these things painted and based by the end of this coming weekend. Anyone actually use these on the table? It's nice you can attach them to storm groups, because the artillery battery is pretty pricy. Still... an AT 5 FP 1 bombardment sounds satisfying. Also the Berlin book makes it sound like building destoryer still applies even in a bombardment.

>>49949948
>Also the Berlin book makes it sound like building destoryer still applies even in a bombardment.
It shouldn't, given Bunker Buster and Breakthrough Gun stop working in bombardments.

Also, Sam is that you? Since when did you go on 4chan?

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>>49950030
nope. sorry to disappoint.

I think you are right about the building destroyer rule. It is likely applied as an extension off of bunker buster.

>>49950271
Just reminded me of a friend that also has a rough deadline of he coming weekend, plays soviets, and had the same thoughts concerning bombardments with them.

>>49936583
>plastic puma
>plastic tiger
FUCKING WHEN???

>>49951040
Soon(tm)

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I kinda want to get into 15mm flames of war.

I want to learn more history beforehand though.

ANy suggestions for good documentary series or books that are concise history of ww2 or books/doc that are good history of different weapons systems from the war?

>>49951834
Ospreys are always useful for the details. Check out /hwg/ here on /tg/, they have a most amazing mediafire library.

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>>49951834
Watch The World At War

>>49951894
>>49951916
Not him but where is a good place to find historical unit composition, squad/platoon tactics, and the like for help in making accurate and fluffy lists?

>>49951950

Bayonetstrength, but his site seems to have kicked the bucket. You can look it up on an internet archive site though.

>>49951894
I always wondered if Ospreyanon is one guy, because that guy is a goddamn saint if he is. He has other stuff too so if you don't find it he'll upload it if you request it.

>>49952044
>Bayonetstrength
The archive is nice, thanks. Shame about the proper site though.

>>49952044
>>49951894
Ospreys look great but no idea where to dive in yet. I wish I could DL a complete pack of them.

>>49951916
Ill have to check this out. Its from 70s is info still up to date?

>>49942128
How are Cossacks anyways?

>>49936583

> Plastic Tigers

YES

>>49952204
No idea. Berlin digital has hero khazaks so veteran and fausts may push them away from being dog shit. My meta is tank heavy so I'm not holding my breath.

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>>49942313
Yes and no.

It plays a lot like what you would expect. Basic structure same, with changes in mission type. I find it is a lot like playing out of the burning empires book, with late war units.

Nato plays as juggernautish as you would expect.

VC play about as well as the midwar sas or oss, mixed with the soviet style of numbers.

It is fun, but noone seems to play it. Ill wait for the team yankee combo.

>yfw it becomes early, mid, and late war periods for the coldwar, with korea, nam, and some tom clancy bullshit as period conflicts.

>>49952699
I doubt it'll go quite that in depth, but I definitely think Team Yankee is probably going to be their basis for all post-WWII rule sets

>>49954064
I'd be cool with this.

So, how exactly does a multi-company force work in Flames? The rules are kinda scattered about.

>>49955587
One Company breaks, they all break. CICs can't influence Platoons from the other Company.

>>49955777
Higher command teams still can though (provided they're not Allies), right?

Seems pretty harsh compared to TY, but I guess that's because of the differences in morale rules and such.

I assume it'd be fair to ignore the "one breaks, both break" rule if it's a 2v2 game or such, were both sides have multiple (same size) companies?

>>49956123
I've never played in a doubles tournament, so I don't know how that is typically handled.

I remember reading in these threads that there was some sort of problem with the armor the soviets produced for their IS-2s. Anyone know a source with more details on that?

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Hey.
How do you feel about tape measures painted and based to fit in with the terrain?

>>49957832
Seems like it'd be confusing.

>>49957832
Seems kinda impractical when you wanna hold it.

>>49957832
Why tho its not like your gonna have your guys stand on the tape measure

I just clip mine to my belt when not in use

>>49957832
I have enough trouble finding my tape measure when it's a distinct colour against the table top.

Do Battlefront minis contain lead?

>>49958515
Basically no metal models in mass sale have contained lead since like, the late Eighties man. They're made usually of White Metal now.

>>49958636
I coulda sworn White Metal had some lead in it.

>>49958666
HIEL SATAN

Bampu

>>49952113

It's only 26 episodes so the level of detail means it is still quite accurate. The advantage is of course they could actually talk to people who were in the war.

The BBC also made a Great War series which is very similar in style and while a bit more out of date it's also an excellent series. It's very expensive to buy, though so watch it on YouTube.

>>49958515
>>49958636
They're usually made from pewter which has trace amounts of lead, so don't stuff them up your nose.

If I was gonna get into this would TANKS be a better starting point if I don't want to spend a lot?

Could I do a Girls Und Panzer style force?

>>49960314
Yes it would on both counts.

>>49960386
Should I order the starter or download it and buy open fire?

>>49960415
Open Fire's less of a good choice than it used to be if I'm honest because it doesn't come with a rulebook now. It's cheap enough to buy a mini rule book, but still. Tanks gets you enough to get going pretty quickly, you'll need more than two shermans and a Panther for a proper game, but the clam shell packs for TANKS are pretty good. So it really depends on what you want. At least with say, most of a Panther Squadron for Tanks, you'd have a good support choice for FoW.

>>49960470
is plastic soldier company still go to for cheap stuff?

I like US and German tanks. If I were gonna do something it would be one of those.

If I did full on flames of war id like to do a armored company with tanks/halftracks of either.

What the hell is TANKS anyhow? WW2 X-Wing?

>>49960667
Id like to know this too.

Is the starter worth it or can I just pirate the rules?

>>49960667
Essentially.

It has some significant differences, but that's the core idea.

>>49960667
Pretty much yes.

>>49960522
Depends on the kit, but most of their tanks are solid. Zvezda has also come out with some pretty decent heavy armor kits for the Jerries. I have heard good things about the KT and Elephant models.

>>49927405
Hey /fowg/, I joined the Minis Wargaming Club here at my college, and I've managed to play my first couple of games of FoW. First game I played was US Armoured Rifles. I lost. Bad. But the second game was as an SS Totenkopf Panzerkompanie, and that one I managed to win.

But I'm not sure whether to go with Italians (the army I wanted to play when I first heard about FoW) or Hungarians, which gives me more options for LW. In either case, I'm glad I managed to finally get some games under my belt.

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>>49960470
Just looked over the tanks videos on youtube.

Man I am kinda disappointed how basic the game is.

Do the tanks retain any of their actual flavor or are they all the same? It seems like all guns being able to pierce all armor is kinda goofy.

The starter set not even having the fucking rules for standard flames of war is pretty distasteful too.

I would learn towards tanks but I am afraid to get into it without getting to look at full rules.

If I bought third party minitures would I still be able to use them in that game or would I need Battlefronts special cards?

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>>49961223
Tanks's full rules is on Gale Force Nine's site. The Cards though are in the boxes.

>>49961311
So even if you own the tank minis already you have to wait for an anon to scan the cards I guess?

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So, I'll be at a friend of mine's this weekend. I know he has ruskies, and I know he recently expanded his infantry selection for them by approximately a lot. He also sent me this "Dream OMG force" list a few days ago, but a decent chunk of that he could have fielded before so it doesn't necessarily tell me anything. Other than that, I have no clue what his 2000pt force is going to look like.

On the upside, he has no idea about what I have aside from my old Cromwell list and my recent Churchill purchase. He does not know I have all these damn airlanding infantry now. I don't know mission or anything in advance, just the points level. I've got two forces mocked up, both pretty similar, but neither is finalized. In addition to what's in the lists, I have:
1 Airlanding Mortar platoon (4x 3" mortars)
1 US Parachute platoon (7 Rifle/MG, Bazooka, mortar)
2 Fireflies and 6 Shermans
3 more Churchills
Spare Dingoes and UCs to double the size of the recce platoon.

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>>49961429
Option A) Lots of 25pdrs, but the Churchills lack a VII and the 6pdrs are down to 3.

>>49961179
I would go for hungarians. Pancakes and yakuzzis are smexy.
Welcome to the war!

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>>49961444
Option B) Less 25pdrs, but the 6pdrs and Churchills are fully upgraded, and I plop a sniper team in the HQ. I COULD drop the panzerfausts from the normal platoons to get a larger recce group instead of the sniper, but I don't know if he's going to do a bait and switch and haul out the T-34 horde, in which case I really want those 'fausts.

>>49961419
Well the kind of nice thing is that the Starter Box comes with a Card for every plastic tank out when it was released.

>>49961466
>>49961444
>>49961429
I don't believe anyone regularly plays past 2000 points. Beyond that point shit is just unmanageable.

Also with 25pdr batteries they should be at the full eight. I'd go with Option A, you'll want to delete the Recce Group in my opinion, and find a way to squeeze some 17pdrs in. Relying on Six Pounders and Panzerfausts to deter Tanks tends to end badly. Otherwise they can sit back at range and wail on you for a while.

>>49961551
Why delete the recce group? I have no idea if I'm going to be attacking or defending, and if I'm attacking having some recce to help me range in quickly is going to be important.

>>49961454
Thanks! And yeah, I'd like to run the Hungarian Volunteer Rifles (I just like the oddball lists) for a LW army, and use the Italians as my EW and MW armies. The guy I was playing against using the Panzerkompanie actually got really into the idea of being able to play Desert War Brits.

But yeah, it'd be fun to run an oddball list and just have fun every Friday night.

>>49961628
You have ten platoons, Nine is the magic one, but the Recce Platoon is just a liability. Two fragile vehicles that can be ruined almost instantly by heavy fire.

>>49961660
It's a one-off game, the bonus from 9 platoons means nothing here. So: Why should I drop my only Recce platoon?

>>49958666
Shit Satan is putting lead in our models to poison us

>>49960724
You might as well get the starter kit - the cardboard stuff (like the arrows) would take some effort to replicate and it's a fairly good deal.

The rules on their website, so it's not piracy to download them.

>>49961223
Tanks is a basic game, and the rules have pretty much nothing to do with Flames of War. That's probably why they sell it under a different brand (Battlefront owns Gale Force Nine). I'd try it if you have friends that are totally new to miniature wargaming and a little intimidated by it. Or if you want to recreate Girls und Panzer.

Otherwise, jump right into FoW.

So this is gonna sound like a weird link, but this is where the old Wargames Factory historicals wound up. Dreamforge is having a sale and apparently you can pick up an entire German or US infantry company for $8. Keep in mind these are old Wargames factory kits. But if you need absolutely dirt cheap infantry might be worth a look. Plus you can buy some of Dreamforge stuff too, theyre at a good price if the shipping ain't too bad. I plan on using some for heavy infantry in Konflict 47

http://dreamforge-games.com/collections/infantry

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>>49952044
>I always wondered if Ospreyanon is one guy, because that guy is a goddamn saint if he is
Well yes to the first, and unfortunately no to the second, but thank you anyway anon.

>>49952113
>I wish I could DL a complete pack of them.
A while back someone from /k/ shared this Mega link of Ospreys in /hwg/:

https://mega.nz/#F!ZAoVjbQB!iGfDqfBDpgr0GC-NHg7KFQ

Mega allows you to download a folder en bloc, which a lot of people find very handy. So if you want to grab a whole pile at once this is a good start. I've found quite a few things missing though, especially recent titles and stuff from the Combat, Duel and New Vanguard lines, so if you can't find them in the MF then as always I can upload it.

Also check out my fucking awesome captcha! Anyone else getting all sorts of military aircraft in theirs? Honestly it's like every second one for me.

>>49963985
They don't look that bad, actually.

>>49963985
Newfag here, would anybody give me shit if I used these?

>>49965784
I don't know how they look, but I don't think so. Quite a deal for an entire company. I'm only restraining myself because I have enough shit that needs painting already.

Air support, yes or no?

>>49966861
Mu.

>>49966916
Mu Dick?

>>49967075
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_(negative)#In_popular_culture

I've now got some magnets and I'm trying to magnetise the contents of Patton's Eagles, but the magnets don't seem to actually fit. They seem to be very, very slightly (maybe like a mm?) too big to fit in the holes. I had assumed this was correct, and they were meant to sit slightly raised, but I went with that and the pershing that resulted has an obviously raised turret. Wat do? Do I just need to file out every single hole, and if so how is that more convenient?

>>49967284
What size magnets did you get? I think the flames ones are 5mm x 1mm

Been lurking and had a question, why is air support a bad idea? Too pricey or too situational?

>>49967497
Mostly, it's too unreliable, and it's note sure you can hit what you really want to hit, due to wave-off distance.

>>49967319
5mm x 1mm, yeah. As I say, they're really close to fitting, they just... don't quite.

>>49967578
So what does that mean for bringing anti air? Is it generally cheap enough to may as well bring it or is having a platoon not dedicated to countering something inconsistent more important given platoon count mattering?

>>49967799
It's a cheap platoon, it's a useful insurance against that time when the opponents Air dice are fucking hot, and AA are usually useful in some other way (heavy AA double as Anti-tank, while medium-light, such as german FlAK43 37mm, are hell for lightly armoured stuff, such as enemy recce, and even 2cm AA can chase infantry).

>>49967748
I guess just widen the hole a bit

>>49966861
>>49967497
The thing with Air is that it's generally unreliable and subject to waving off if friendlies are too close.
This means that in most lists, just getting some arty is a better options to make sure the enemy spreads out properly.

However, in forces that don't plan to be murderously close to the enemy for most of the game (like most infantry forces) air can still be a powerful way to threaten enemy assets, especially expensive tanks, making sure they spread out and stay close to terrain to at least force that range-in roll.

Priority (or even limited) air costs a lot of points though, generally making this suboptimal.
However, I'm personally a strong advocate of bringing sporadic air in mostly-defensive forces since you can often spare the 100-odd points to dictate the enemy movement in this way.

As for bringing AA: it's often a fairly cheap option that can also threaten some enemy units, typically light vehicles and infantry, as >>49967883 says.
Often a solid buy even with little airpower in your meta.

>>49967883
>>49967978
I'll be picking some up then, a buddy of mine just got a couple of stuka and we're both pretty new so I was wondering how much I should be worried. There any AA thats typically useless or should I just not worry too much so long as I have some?

>>49968172
Which nation (and what company)?

>>49968285
Soviet Tankovy, he figured it would counter me hard so he got them when he heard I ordered the plastic soldier company box of 26 T-34s.

>>49968409
Ya got an array of excellent options then.

Personally, I'd go for something light and mobile, like the basic "HMG on flatbed truck" option or the slightly more expensive but also more effective lend-lease half-tracks with quad .50 cals.

>>49968516
The DShK AA is really that effective? Is it better to take them as part of their own platoon or one of the attached options with one less member for less if the extra platoon will put you over an even number?

>>49968630
Not as good as the quadtrack, but pretty decent.
Fragile though, but you get what you pay for.

For numbers, I'd say that depends on where you need the AA most since having them as part of your arty kinda ties em to that location, which might not be where you need your AA cover.

>>49968687
Probably with my tanks then, particularly the heavies. I'll just be playing around with my list then, trying to find a nice balance of anti tank and anti infantry at the moment.

>>49968409
>countering your friends hard

Man I don't understand this, if you're both trying to have fun why go for specific lists to just shut down and fuck your opponent. Like, it's gonna just turn them off from playing with you and by extension the game

>>49969028
I dunno, hes nice enough personally but he pulls stuff like that when gaming somewhat often. He thinks things he finds cheesy is more funny than rude, but hes not the brightest so it he usually doesn't win due to a combination of poor tactics and not understanding what real cheese entails. At least thats what I learned about him from playing 40k with him.

>>49969109
>>49969028

Let him bring priority Stuka's and laugh as you roll right up into wave off distance before he can do shit with them. You should be able to space your tanks out enough to keep them from getting hurt too bad. Just keep your AA trucks behind the tanks.

>>49969176
Sounds like a plan, especially if I can pin his infantry when I close in. I was planning on using obr 1942s anyway for the fast tank rule so that fits with what I was already planning.

>>49969267
Just make sure you are out of line of sight of his tanks and AT guns when you move at the double, or he will get to reroll misses.

>>49969850
Right, that might actually be difficult given what I remember he has. Hopefully the terrain is nice since he has a unit of pak 40s, some stugs, Pz4 Hs, a tiger 1e, and two sturmtigers. I think they're all minimum unit size since he likes those big guns. Won't have all of that though if he brings the stukas. I honestly kind of hope he favors the sturmtigers and brings them instead of something more flexable.

Just found 2 old metal panthers from an aborted attempt to get into FOW years ago.

Are Panthers a decent choice for Italy?
For example could I pick up the >>49963985 late war Germans and a couple of PSC Panthers and have most of a valid Grenadier Company ?

>>49969850
>Just make sure you are out of line of sight of his tanks and AT guns when you move at the double, or he will get to reroll misses.
Sadly, At the Double is enemy gets double ROF, which is quite frankly absurd when combined with the other limitations. Re-rolls to hit or a -1 penalty to be hit (eg: vets hit as if trained) would probably result in it actually being used. As-is, At the Double is rarely worth it if anything that can hurt you can get LoS on you.

>>49970261
Italy has some nice infantry lists and Panthers usually don't fit much in an infantry list. If you want to play Panthers play a Panzer Kompanie from Ardennes or Desperate Measures. As a support for infantry Elefant/Ferdinands are great and they were avaiable in Italy iirc and Zvezda just recently released cheap plastic Elefants.

>>49970460
ah thanks for clearing that up. I always get it mixed up with semi indirect/volley fire.

>>49970460
Thats actually really scary, so nevermind. At least obr 1942s are cheap.

Quick question about tank riding companies and reserves, are they considered to be attached to tanks and come on with them or will they have to walk on to the table sometimes if they are held back?

I know the conventional wisdom is "Tigers/Tiger IIs are overrated", but when are Tigers useful, assuming one doesn't pin everything on them?

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>>49970505
>If you want to play Panthers play a Panzer Kompanie
Ok so is list attached reasonable? (presuming 1500 points is a normal sized army?)

>>49971450
Tiger Is are overrated in Late War because their Front Armour is pretty easy to punch through with Fireflies, US 76mm guns, Soviet 85mm Guns etc. However they're great in Mid War because even one provides a good corner stone to an army capable of punching through basically anything that moves and surviving most if not all return fire.

Tiger IIs is a complex issue and I'm probably not the best to address it given my massive hard on for them. But basically with Front Armour 16, good positioning and a hopeful absence of Heavy Cruiser Naval Gunfire Support you can and should take Not-Veteran King Tigers. Reluctant Trained or Fearless Trained King Tigers are cheaper than Confident Veteran ones, but their effectiveness at their primary task: The Destruction of Enemy armour, is no less impeded by their shitty training.

>>49971578
Sadly this list is illegal, most Panzerkompanies have this little blurb in there somewhere:
>"You must field at least one Panzer Platoon entirely equipped with the same model of tank as the Company HQ."

>>49971669
Front Armour 15 rather. King Tiger (P)s have 14 which makes them vulnerable to being bailed by certain types of guns.

>>49971669
>Sadly this list is illegal, most Panzerkompanies have this little blurb in there somewhere:
woops

>>49971669
LW Tiger Is are only a tiny bit more expensive than Panthers... -1 front armor for +3 side armor and +1 top armor doesn't seem like a bad tradeoff for certain roles.

Are there CT Tigers anywhere besides the Desperate Measures tank school ones?

>>49972247
one armor can be pretty significant, actually.

But the tigers get a longer range gun and every once in a while your ace skill might be useful

>>49972287
Rapid fire is pretty nice. Hungarians have slightly cheaper CV Tigers if you don't want to pay for the Tiger Ace skill.

>>49972247

Tiger 1E has:
>Slow Tank, FA:9 SA:8 TA: 2 Co-Ax MG, Hull MG, Protected Ammo, Wide Tracks
>8.8cm KwK36 gun: 40'/100cm RoF:2 AT:13 FP: 3+ Slow Traverse.

Where as the Panther is
>Standard Tank, FA:10 SA:5 TA:1 Co-Ax MG, Hull MG, Wide Tracks
>7.5cm KwK42 Gun: 32'/80cm RoF: 2 AT:14 FP:3+

The best Comparison really I think is from Berlin with the Berlin Kampfgruppe's Panzer Platoon Divisional Support Choice which strips the Tiger Ace from the Tiger removing the uncertainty of the "Tiger Ace Tax"

>2 Panthers 370 points
>2 Tigers 400 points

I mean, personally to me, the choice is amazingly clear. Panthers. They're cheaper, better frontally protected, hit harder, and move faster. That extra point of AT helps a goddamn lot, it turns "I might save that" into "I have barely any chance of saving". Being Standard Tank is an absolute joy to consider after a lot of games as Slow and Overloaded. Plus this is with the Berlin Kampfgruppe, Comparing Panthers and Tiger Is anywhere else is doubly unfair In Kampfgruppe Bäke from Grey Wolf, where Panthers come out at 186.66 (Repeating) points per tank, and Tigers with Tiger Ace Skills come out at 215 points per tank.

Something's fucky with Tiger Ie's cost in Late War.

In terms of CT tigers you can also field Kampfgruppe Hummel from Bridge by Bridge, and there's also RV Tiger Ace Tigers from Bridge At Remagen.

>>49972738
As someone that plays Cromwells, I honestly fear the Tigers more. Both die to 17pdrs pretty much the same, but Panthers get rekt by Cromwells in the side arc (which is easy to do with 16" move). Tigers don't give a fuck.

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ok a new list from desperate measures which uses my 2 Panthers.

How does this look?

>>49972247
FA 10 is "I autobounce the western allies and am only scared of 1s against soviets". FA 9 is "I'm scared of massed western allied fire and soviets are going to give me a real bad day".

Erwin Rommel, meme commander or great tactician with poor understanding of defensive strategy?

>>49972738
>In terms of CT tigers you can also field Kampfgruppe Hummel from Bridge by Bridge

Don't they also gain either Unreliable or Overloaded?

>>49976592
Gain Unreliable, lose Wide Tracks.

>>49976550
Above average guy who also had a lot of luck and some really bad adversaries, and also doesn't get enough flak for war crimes because his big name job didn't have anyone in war-criming distance most of the time.

TY question: Helis can't actually be shot at unless they landed or shot, right? Does this mean you can only shoot transport craft after they've dumped their cargo?

>>49977497
Anti-aircraft weapons and anti-helicopter weapons can shoot at choppers at any time.

Any other weapons can only shoot at them while landed.

>>49973014
You have a min-sized infantry platoon, with no way of being mobile, no recon, and uneven platoon count.
-A five-team infantry platoon will rarely if ever be able to do diddely-shit, and dies way too easily (at least it's Veteran, and not Reluctant)
-A single infantry platoon when the rest of the army (the important parts, at least) is tracked means it's going to be left behind.
-Recon can prevent ambushes when you're attacking, make spoiling attacks against artillery/lightly armored teams/infantry trying to keep up when you're defending, and lift Gone to Ground whenever some infantry decides to dig in on a piece of ground you want. Rarely, if ever, leave home without it.
-5 platoons means that whenever you get hit by reserves, you'll deploy TWO platoons on the table. And you don't even have two strong enough platoons.

Redo from start. And I sincerely doubt 2 Panthers are enough, even when backed by StuGs. 3 would be better.

>>49976550
>poor understanding of defensive strategy?
The guy conducted a superb fighting retreat over hundreds of miles, so credit for that.

>>49976550
Mediocre commander exaggerated by his own enemies black propaganda. Never engaged with the Soviets which I'd argue was the litmus test for a 'competent' commander.

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>>49976550

It's something of a cliche but historians usually point out he was very adept as a divisional commander, but less effective at corps level. Certainly there was a legend built around him, by both British and German propaganda, to the extent where Monty literally forbade anyone mentioning him by name because he felt it had created an inferiority complex. The German hype came back to bite them on the ass when they had to cover up his forced suicide; they'd made him such a hero that they had to keep up the story. As >>49979982 suggests one wonder what he would have done in the East.

>>49980064
>It's something of a cliche but historians usually point out he was very adept as a divisional commander, but less effective at corps level.
The Peter Principle in perfect effect.

>>49980064
Surrender and defect.

I'm almost certain Rommel would've been the head of the League of Free German officers considering how much of a political opportunist he was.

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>>49980104
The same thing is sometimes said about my beloved Freyberg, commander of the 2nd NZEF. As divisional commander he was hell on wheels, but when appointed to corps command (Crete and Cassino) he struggled to balance all the extra responsibility.

so... i want to get into fow and bought a box of grenadiers just to see if i could even paint 15mm.

pretty overwhelmed my choices here too. a german company is the standard 3 platoons plus command right? there are two command sprues. does that mean i have my CO plus platoon leader?

this is certainly a step above bolt action...

>>49980216
A German Grenadier Company can roll with just two Platoons if need be. You'll want to double check the amount of command figures you have, because you'll need (recommended) three on a small base for your Company Commander, three more for your 2IC, and then you'll need two guys (Recommended) on a small base for each platoon's command team. Check an assembly diagram, they're usually in the books or on BF's site.

I personally believe that a Company level Command team should always have three figures on it and platoon Command teams should have only two. And if you think otherwise then you're wrong and deviant.

This should hopefully help you: http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=4541
(There's a similar article for doing mid-war)

>>49980303
>I personally believe that a Company level Command team should always have three figures on it and platoon Command teams should have only two. And if you think otherwise then you're wrong and deviant.
Shut up, heretic. 3 figures for all command teams, 2 figure teams are for special weapons. And 4, no more and no less, for medium base infantry teams.

>>49980389
Motherfucker I will feed you to Sheep!

>>49980474
Go poke a platypus.

>>49980132
please tell me thats a 15mm mini?

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>>49980913
Sorry anon, Perry 28mm. They have a fantastic 8th Army range.

>>49980921
It's sorely tempting to start a small 28mm platoon...

>>49965784
No, probably not. Make sure base sizes are correct.

The great thing about 15mm is that it is almost too small to tell. Even rough painting in the proper colors make them look great.

Now, if you are talking about their scifi future nazi/greyknights then, yes someone will care.

>>49982435
Those aren't even the right scale.

Their sci-fi power armored Nazis are 28mm scale.

>>49982416
If you're using Bolt Action + Perry Minis It'd cost you next to nothing.

I forget who was asking but someone earlier in the thread wanted to know about Wayland Games shipping to the US.

The order shipped from the U.K. last week on Thursday the 20th and arrived last night, Wednesday the 26th here in NY.

So about 1 week shipping time. Maybe as 1 more day for mid-west or west coast.

>>49982839
So in other words, someone will care.

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Going to get some stuff in for my Tankovy company and wanted to get started playing soon with a small force to get more of a feel for the game. I could field this if I picked up a bit more that I wouldn't really mind having anyway.

Really I just remember reading somewhere that 600 point forces only need their battalion command and one combat platoon minimum. If thats not true please stop me. Beyond that does this look like a fine force to initially learn with?

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>>49987021
Eagles you are unironically the best.

>>49932579
I like how the Soviets have two fortified companies and no always defend lists, and both are Late War impromptu trench systems.

>what is kursk

>what is leningrad

>what is stalingrad

> what is moscow

>what is the stalin line

>what is sevastopol

holy shit sevasto even had 600mm+ guns on both sides. You can't even field bunkers as soviets.

>>49987021
If you don't mind my asking, how long did it take for your order to ship?

>>49933319
These guys managed to find two polish hussar boxes to integrate into my cossacks when BF shit their pants when they realized they either lost or broke the mold for them when they tried making new ones for my order. Credit to them for doing in three months what BF couldn't for 1,5 year with biweekly emails.

>>49987897
There was a bit of a back order. Maybe a week or so, but they were very good about emailing updates.

>>49987878
more battlefront anti-russian bias I see.

>>49987946
Cool. I'm trying to order a Parachute Rifle Company, and it's listed as "Available to Order", so it shouldn't take too long (I hope).

I could get it from The War Store or The Miniature Company, but it's only $45 (with shipping) at Wayland.

>>49941604
KV-85, KV-8, IS-85's are good heavies.

ISU-122 is a lot better then ISU-152 due to not being a bunker buster (no-one plays bunkers)

Katys of any size are good, i made 2nd in a tourney fielding 8 katy's with extra crew and some ISU-122s (fielding Forward Detachment)

>>49987878
>>49987965
You know if you really don't like it, email Battlefront, they are spending basically all of next year redoing Midwar. Hell do your research and write a list yourself man. Battlefront do sometimes publish lists from outside sources, even if they are generally within their circle of good chums. But if you're well researched, polite and respectful to them I imagine that they'd take a look.

>>49987878
To be fair nobody's got much mid-war variety.

>>49952204
I field both Cossacks and Hero Cossacks, and you always blend up a lot of your horses, but damn they clear objectives with QoQ. Yes, the FV list can get a 23-base QoQ unit for about 800 points, including the ever useful ZIS-2's. Scoot em up with scouts and laugh as your opponent can't rebuke them with 25 dice defensive fire.

Don't forget to dismount before assaulting against tanks, though the FV list has less issues with that due to fausts and the FT list can take a lot of AT support to compensate.

>>49961429
luckily for you, a lot of those units are not very good. Specifically, PTRD's are garbage tier against everything not a transport, 76mm guns only use is direct fire infantry digging out, the strahf company makes him always attack ( which for infantry lists is generally shit because you're slow an machineguns eat you if you're not in a dug in pit) , he's not fielding fausts in his sappers though you get em for free (unless the digital list builder is being shit) and the tip sturmo is wasted points compared to the normal sturmo. Against this have a lot of shooting dice. Like a lot. Get HMGs. Get breaktrough guns to deny him saves. Shoot his gun teams. Break company morale by killing shit platoons, because platoon morale is impeccable for soviets.

( this is from a soviet inf/cav player, i haven't played against airborne yet)

>>49988019
I could cut an SU-85 to upgrade to ISU-122s and pick up an MG team for the tank riders. A bit worried about the SU-85s having a small unit size but can't have everything I guess.

Kind of staying away from heavies due to points cost given I'd already have the ISUs, I'll take your word for them pulling their weight though. IS-85s are pretty cool so I'd like to eventually pick those up since I was warned away from the standard IS tanks.

>>49988041
Tbh i don't know enough about the nitty gritty but will certainly pop them an email. Already posted on the forums about this.

>>49932679
K U R S K ! ! !

Mid-War would have some hellacool splatbooks.

Kursk would have Total War for Mid-War/ V4. if it did not, i would pile-bunker them in the scrotum. twice.

>>49988084
How do you get 23 bases in Hero Cav?

>>49988213
PTRDs are for volley firing infantry from a second rank, slapping tanks with in assault, and bulking platoons out for QOQ, not for killing tanks with direct fire, they're a pretty good buy even if they're not 6pdrs. 76mm IGs are cheap and are cheap for a reason, but they knock out dug in things a treat and can cause some havoc bombarding things that try and make a dash.

Shtraf, shturmovik, and the fausts you're totally right on though.

>>49988019
>8 katushyas
the madman

Are OSS any fun?

>>49988378
The largest tank battle in history?

They'd be fools not to introduce a reworking, or at least a reprinting of the Total War rules for any Kursk book they might do.

Also, the name should be "Zitadelle" (translators note: Zitadelle means Citadel) the German name for the operation.

As long as my finns aren't molested too much, I'd welcome changes to midwar. It's my group's preferred period, and we're even starting a Kursk themed campaign. Yeah, there weren't any Finnish tanks at Kursk, but I already have a DAK army and I'm not making a second MW german force.

>>49990449
You could start a Hungarian force!

>>49990515
I like the Hungarians, but they're the same thing as the Finns in reverse: instead of shitty Russian tanks, they're getting shitty German tanks. Also I'm kind of cheap and in university.

>>49990582
and Romanians are just frost-backed Italians in disguise, just as useful too

Could I please get a rundown on US tank companies and which book I should use? Google is being particularly unhelpful about it.

>>49990796
It really depends on what book(s) you or your group uses. Will you be playing Mid-war? Late?

>>49990796
Bulge Compilation or Bridge at Remagen. Basically any of them with jumbos and easy eights.

>>49990840
Late war I believe is whats most popular in my area.

>>49990863
Personally I try to go with whatever conflict your group is playing in - tanks from Bridge at Remagen differ from those in Blood, Guts, and Glory which differ from Road to Rome. Best to mirror what people are using, but in absence of that I'd recommend Blood, Guts and Glory as a good tanker book.

>>49990859
Appreciate it.

>>49990951
Most of them use the free company lists available at flames of war or just pick whatever if I remember correctly. I'll add Blood, Guts, and Glory to the downloads.

>>49990796
The Battle of the Bulge is a good buck for Americans near the end of the war in December 1944 and January 1945.

>>49991070
*book, not buck

Bridge at Remagen is a must if you want Pershings - if you can live without them, I like the Bulge compilation. Chaffees FTW.

>>49991070
I'm liking it so far, trying to compare the pdfs versions of their tank companies side by side to work out the differences.

>>49991137
Don't care too much about Pershings, but if I'm seeing this right it looks like the only place I can get Calliopes. Always thought they were really cool, so I may go with Bridge at Remagen just for them.

>>49991236
Road to Rome also, and I could've sworn some were in the bulge comp.

>>49991447
My mistake then, found them in Bulge's rifle company and perimeter outpost companies. Would rather focus on mostly tanks as a tread head, but if I could I honestly would enjoy playing most of these companies. The amount of choices is amazing.

>>49991447
Ah, found out the issue; Calliopes were attached to infantry support tank divisions to begin with, so they're in the bulge infantry lists. Presumably the armour divisions got them later.

>>49991554
If I do use Bulge I'll just settle for armored mortars in that case. Bridge at Remagen's 3rd armored units being reluctant leaves me feeling somewhat reluctant myself. Does their vet status make up for it enough or should I always take 9th armored units from there?

>>49990226
>zitadelle

oh you!

new thread? i'll get one going, if you like.

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new thread

>>49991961