/ktg/ Kill Team General

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First for you really fucking need to start including "40k" or "warhammer" somewhere in the OP because these threads slip through my highlighting filters.

Anyways, are HoR eversors as ridiculous as they look? Can take two pistols (plasma and grav, for example), each of which fire 4 times at an extremely broad array of targets. 4 plasma shots + 4 grav shots within a 6" area sounds positively murderizing.

At 250pts, you can run two of these sexbots.

In other news, 120 pts for a Mancus Poison Venenum Assassin sounds exceptional for any complementary assassin.

>>49915572
Woops, my mistake. Only one item from the ranged armoury list. So you can take a plasma pistol and an Executioner pistol for +25 pts. Still, 4 plasma shots alone just seems like pure, liquid fun_.

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I've just made this one and I wonder how would it perform.

>>49915572
HoR lists went crazy since the fans took over. They used to be simple, characters and depowered HQs in the Leader slot with some upgrade options, Troopers in the Core slots and everything else in the Special with some HQs moving stuff from Special to Core and the only army lists allowed are based on Codexes (including some discontinued ones from older editions).

Now it's a race because each army list has it's own "developer" group that one-ups the other with how many toys and new gadgets they can add, 3 Wound Leaders, Fast Attack options that are plain better than Troops in core and so on.

>>49915758
I dunno, man. The situation doesn't seem that dire. I think the only real fault here is allowing assassins to buy those weapons outside of their real unit sheets. I doubt the dev behind it realized the significance of Fast Shot + Gunslinger + plasma pistol when he tacked the usual "may take from Assassin's armory" blurb, as it doesn't mean anything for the other 4.

Personally, I found the way they incorporated assassins to be quite clever, all things considered - giving you the choice of which of their wargear you "buy back" to meet point limits. And the fluffy stuff doesn't seem particularly try hard - the Grand Master upgrade is 100 pts to improve your 4++ to 3++, and the hidden temple assassins are super expensive (~half your team's pts, or one whole assassin) for essentially one rule effect and no model supporting it.

But what do I know. I usually play HoR Deldar.

I've had good experiences so far with the Legion of the Damned. Biggest weakness in Slow and Purposeful but the entire list having Fearless, Ignores Cover, and a 3++ by default is really good.

>>49915853
That was one of the first lists I thought of with GW's release. However, I was soon to discover that it was extremely weak to horde armies, particular IG. A near 50 model horde pumping out lasbolts starts to hurt fast, and we can't afford those kinds of casualties while they can shrug off losing a dozen guys without blinking.

Aside from that, I loved them to death.

>>49915893
Same, my first loss with them was against a tyranid gaunt horde on an urban table with lots of cover. Each member got swarmed and brought down pretty quickly. A Damned list is one that lives and dies based on the matchup.

Some question /ktg/

How does close combat and pile in works on the new official kill team?

Are models that in range of 2 inches whithin engaged models are automatically piled in towards them?

I was first play it yesterday. One of my ranger was being enganged by Death squad, and my friend said that other rangers that within 2 inch of them are automaticaly piling in, joining the combat.

>>49916122
Is that how it works with separate units in normal 40k? No? Then is that how it's said to work in the Kill Team rulebook? No? Then you were duped by your friend.

The game is played model by model, not unit. There is no reason for someone to have to pile in if his unit (read: himself) is not a part of that combat. Keep in mind, in the 40k rulebook itself, it says only models whose unit is engaged in combat make pile-in moves at their initiative. Having individual model units means that so long as you aren't in B2B contact, you aren't ever engaged in combat.

And lastly, keep in mind the rule that makes these models separate is even called "Every Man For Himself" not "Every Man Better Run To His Death For Someone Else."

what is the best army for kill team competitively speaking?

>>49916337
GW or HoR?

In either case, the answer is a resounding "IT DEPENDS," far moreso than regular 40k. Mostly on your match up. Speaking in general terms, it has a rock-paper-scissors structure. Small, elite teams foil the average teams. Horde teams foil small, elite teams. The average teams foil horde teams. Sometimes that same pattern works backwards.

The terrain also plays a much more significant role in how a team performs against another. Density, LoS-blocking, cover-granting, fire lanes - almost every aspect of terrain starts to play a much greater role in performance.

>>49916394
Wow, it almost sounds well balanced and like gameplay matters.

I'm imperial guard, I have been having my ass handed to me 2 times by demons, this thursday we're gonna play again and I want to try a different list but I have no idea what to field. He plays a different thing each time but only tzeentch and khorne, I have been playing infantry platoon with a sentinel.

I'm interested in building a D-Eldar Kill team.. any decent options?

>>49918229
Splinter cannons are a special kind of wicked once you add relentless/reaping volley.

Blasters are a simple delete button for pesky MEQs/T4 multiwounds.

Raiders and venoms are spectacular overkill with their weapons, but grab a lot of attention and die as usual.

So I was thinking of taking a 6 man Deathwatch kill team. 5 vets all with shotguns and then a combi melta, stalker, infernus and a frag cannon plus a vanguard with two lightning claws.
Are formations allowed in the official 40k kill team as this means I can assemble an Aquilla kill team for delicious re-rolls to make sure every shot counts

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How does this list look? Too static?

>>49915391
Bumpan - them Tau ain't gonna field themselves!

>>49916422

eldar with warp spiders and an exarch still win from my experience but I tend to play a 5 man true born squad with a venom support.

Tinkering with dropping the Dracon for a standard true born so I can take a grisly trophy on the venom for break tests but it works pretty well thus far

>>49918229

I'm running:

Venom w/ SplinterCannon

Dracon w/ Power sword + Haywire

Trueborn w/ Blaster [Eagle Eye]

Trueborn w/ Darklance [Relentless]

Trueborn w/ SplinterCannon [Preferred Enemy]

Trueborn

It's working pretty well but it would get swarmed by a horde list I imagine, not played vs one yet but if I could tailor I'd swap the SplinterCannon Trueborn's perk to split fire and take a preferred enemy Shredder Trueborn instead of the dark lance. That'd free up some points for a grisly trophy on the venom for break tests assuming it's still alive.

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Ordering some Death Korps this month, going to build a kill team first. Hows this look? I'm worried its a bit fragile.

Grenadier Squad - 10 models
Watchmaster w/ hotshot laspistol & ccw [Team Leader]
Grenadier w/ Meltagun [Eagle Eye]
Grenadier w/ Hotshot Lasgun [Executioner]
7 Grens w/ Hotshots

Combat Engineers - 5 models
Watchmaster w/ Shotgun & Meltabombs
Engineer w/ Plasmagun [Preferred Enemy]
3 Engineers w/ Shotguns

Frag, krak, and carapace armor are standard for both unit selections. With what I'm buying I'll also have some flamers and grenade launchers I could swap in along with a heavy stubber but I'm not entirely sure if I want to pack more anti infantry or have a bit of AT.

Stupid question - do dedicated transports count as a unit?

>>49924977
It does in regular 40k, so I assume it does in Kill Team. It still doesn't take up a slot on the force org chart, of course.
Why do you ask?

How do i into tau the kill team?

>>49927414
Take numbers
Model count is what matters in KT

>>49927449
Thanks - that's easy enough for the Greater Good!

>>49927470
Remember to still take special weapons/models to tackle vehicles/high T/high Sv/hordes
Its a delicate balance t b h

Dark Eldar Kill Team

10 Scourges, 4 w/ Heat Lances

200pts even.

Medium model count, high mobility, and able to kill pretty much anything an opponent could take in a kill team game. Biggest weaknesses are shit range and zero assault ability. If a round of shooting goes poorly, I'd almost be guaranteed to get shot and charged the next turn. Then dead.
Sternguard would probably massacre me.

>>49917389
People love to bitch about platoons but I've found they lack dependability when it comes to firepower.

Consider running two squads of vets if you'd like numbers.

Here's a list I'm trying out, given what I've seen over about 20 kill team games as guard

Vet squad: Grenadiers, plasma, autocannon

Vet squad: Grenadiers, Plasma, autocannon

Plasma: Ignore cover
Plasma: Preferred enemy
Autocannon: Feel No Pain/Relentless depending on meta/table

Lots of bodies, good saves, reliable firepower. It hits hard.

Alternatively, a squad of vets with a chimera just does a stupid amount of work as well. This has been my main standby so far but I've found the chimera is an incredibly tough thing for new players to deal with, so I'm trying to leave it out a bit. The chimera is an MVP every match, no matter the enemy team. It can be a party bus, completely ignore your guys and go fight on its own, or lock down an area for defense and even clear buildings with the flamer. Plus the Multilaser gives you yet another heavy weapon to pick off enemy specialists. It even has lasgun arrays that can fire separately so almost an entire squad can fire out of it, and even has a searchlight for all the night fighting scenarios.

Vet squad: Grenadiers, Camo Gear, x2 plasma, Heavy flamer, autocannon

Chimera: Multilaser/heavy flamer

Plasma:Ignores cover
Plasma: Preferred enemy
Autocannon: Relentless/Feel No Pain


I'm sure you're noticing a thing with the specialists. You've not seen fear in a marine player's eyes till you tell him the plasma gun hiding in the chimera has ignores cover.

>>49927414
>>49927792
And never forget at least one Crisis Suit.

So is it even possible to play an ork killteam without being pathetically weak?

christ, i feel like i'm taking crazy pills.

i just got into an arguement in the genecult dev group on fb. they're saying that if you have the cult ambush you get to deploy with cult ambush turn one. and i'm saying that's incredibly wrong and you have to be an infiltrator to deploy cult ambush turn one.

>>49915800
Since you are probably familiar with how DE work, could you tell me is shrouded + stealth supposed to give 4+ in the open and 2+ whenever you 25% of you is obscured by anything? If I chuck a grenade in a shrouder+stealth blob, will they get benefit from cover?

On a sidenote, is there any other tool for orks to fight versus cover stacking except for burnas and melee?

So what's the best option for a Dark Eldar killteam?

I was thinking 10 Kabalites in a Raider with a Splinter Cannon and splinter racks+night shields.

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HoR player here.

I feel like there are some problems with melee at the moment. Note that I'm not suggesting to implement all of the changes below, I'm asking your opinions on what would be balanced and what would be broken.

>1
First of all, 2d6 is assault does not make that much sense for killteam. Run random element has been removed with d6 beeing replaced by guaranteed 6` run. Why not have the same for charge? Charge now is 6`+ d3, so random nature of it is a lot easier to predict.

>2
Secondly, tying up multiple units in assault is hard and sometimes impossible. Each unit has to charge in a straight line, which ends up in you sending multple melee models against same enemy model, simply because you can't draw a straight line to for charge to other models. Now, to declare an assault you still have to have LoS on target, but now you can assault in a curved line, allowing you to tie up more enemy models when they are blobbed up. Also, if you make it so 1 of your models can touch multiple bases of enemy models after moving into assault, they all count as beeing tied up in a combat.

>3
Thridly, overwatch does punish assaults, but does not get punished back by melee units. I propose that when a friendly models is getting assaulted other friendly models within 3` have to pass leadership test(Even if they are fearless) or be forced to make a pile-in move to help their comrades. (Counter-attack units benefit from that move as if they charged).

>4
Last suggestion is that consolidate now is 3`+d3 move that after passing leadership check allows you to tie up another enemy unit. You can do it only once per model, once per assault phase.

Opinions?

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I'm thinking of running a list like this

Chaos marines - iron warriors

Cultist champion: carapace, bolt pistol

2 cultist squads : flamers

5 chaos marines: 2 autocannons

1 chosen: autocannon

1 terminator: reaper autocannon

About 240 points. Is this many autocannons cheesy? I could mix it up with a missile launcher or a heavy bolter if so

>>49929305
Spam boys?

>>49930588
Not a previous anon, but squads do have it hard in KT HoR. Also rout tests.

>>49930636
My friend has done work with his orks in HoR. 'Eavy Armour is key. Sure, you bring less boyz, but the ones you do bring are so much more survivable. A Doc is essential too. He's also had some real success with a Mega Armour Boss Nob. Can't remember his exact list, but it was that nob, melee boyz with armour, shooty boyz with a rokkit and 4 nobz with an assortment of gear (all eavy armour, most melee focused) and a Doc for that sweet FNP.

9 man scion squad with 2 plasma guns and a taurox or a 10 man squad with 2 plasma guns and a sentinel?

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>>49929721
Well, those are questions anyone in this thread (or, more precisely, the Rulebbok itself) could have answered, but yeah, I'll give it a go.

Pic related should cover your first and second questions. Notice the "Shrouded and Stealth are cumulative" part.

>Grenades against cover
Grenades are Blast weapons and thus do not ignore cover. You can confirm this by reading the Blast special rule, which does not specify it ignores cover (like the Template special rule does).

>orks
Sorry man, no idea.

>>49930880
Depends on how you usually play terrain. Generally, a transport is the better choice, but my friends and I play with terrain so tight and tall that you'd never actually get anywhere if you tried taking a transport - that, I feel, is the spirit of Kill Team, but to each their own.

If you tend to have enough space to maneuver a taurox, then take it.

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>>49929324
>Units with this special rule that Infiltrate
Seems pretty intuitive to me.

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>>49930939
>countering cover save as orks
Just found out that barrage weapons kinda ignore cover since hit is comming from the center, not from the gun. Still, since intervening models grant 5+ cover save, if you'd fire barrage weapon into a mob of shroud+stealth units, units on the outskirts of the blast would still tank at 2+.

Tried playing with shooty orks vs DE who had shroud+stealth 3` bubble on leader as of late. Results were not amusing. Mandrakes turning into terminators whenever they partially slip behind a tree , other model or random junk is infuriating.

>>49931098
Sorry to hear that, anon. I just jobbed hard today with an all-incubi list (with a beastmaster & khymera as my core) against sword and board lychguard/immortals/cryptek necrons and plasma squad/ass termy/knight dark angels. 1v1v1 game.

I realized too late that Punishers were only AP3 after committing 4 incubi with them to the ass termy in a tight corridor. Needless to say, the result was not pretty, and I lost nearly half my team in two turns.

We all had a laugh about it, and that same ass termy (with a teleporter) went on to mow down another 8 models after (for a total of fucking 12 kills), so I didn't feel too bad about it. It was a fun game.

Anyways, to your problem, don't forget that Melee always ignores cover saves. Orks have plenty of melee - and despite never having opened its codex, I assume ways of getting into melee. Better than base 40k at least, I hope.

What do you think of this GW KT list /tg/?
Inquisition Henchmen Warband

Chimera - 2x Hbolter, psybolt, dozer blade. 65pts

1x Crusader (leader) 15 pts
8x Acolyte w/ storm bolter/chainsword, 7pts each.
2x Acolyte w/ plasma gun/chainsword and carapace. Specialists, Master-crafted and Preferred enemy. 18pts each.
1x Acolyte w/ melta gun, combi-flamer and carapace. Specialist, Executioner. 28pts.

Special weapon acolytes hide in Chimera and shoot anything remotely dangerous, Melta guy flames any big groups of chaff from the hatch.
Crusader hides in the chimera unless there is some ranged specialist I want dead, where he hops out and hopes to live till next turn.
Rest of the Acolytes go wherever.

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>>49931201
Haha, this reminds me of that time my Mega Boss Nob soloed entire CSM squad in HoR.

I lost my entire ork army in 3 turns (don't ask me how, I did really dumb shit), while my opponent lost only a single chaos marine. There was only 1 Warboss left versus 5-6 raptors and 2 lascannons chosen ones positioned on 2nd and 3d floor of a nearby ruin. We didn't know about rout tests and we were playing elemination.

Warboss had powerclaw, 2+ save from megaarmour, T5 because of metal scull and FnP 5+ from `ard case. I think it sums up at 75 points for 1 model.

My opponent decided to charge with all of his raptors in melee. What happened after was a streak of Warboss reflecting attacks, mauling raptors one by one only to get charged by the next one, including Khornate champion. Sometimes my Warboss couldn't fight back because of fear, so he had to suck it up and tank some more hits with his metal `ead. This went on for like 7 turns.

When all raptors were dead, opponent started shooting up my warboss with his lascannons. One missed, second hits... Its not an instant death though, because T5. And then my Warboss just ignores it through feel no pain and keeps slowly moving towards entrenched lascannons. In the following shooting phase he headshots lascannon on a 3d floor with twinlinked shoota, then tries to climb up and assault the other one on the second floor. And rolls 1 on initiative test, so he climbed up, tanked some more hits from chosen one with chainsword, then chopped his head off with 1 straight powerclaw hit..

Throughout the entire slaughter he didn't take a single wound. I know people on /tg/ like to overexaggerate the details to make story look more appealing, but I swear this was exactly how it went.

In HoR how well do Tau work with no Crisis suits at all? I am thinking a fire warrior squad with a few stealth suits and pathfinders.

>>49915391
Where did you find the pdf version of killteam rules? I looked everywhere in the 40k general thread but all I found was epub.

And epub is shit.

>>49932433
man, look at the OP

>>49932462
Yeah I'm talking about where OP got it.

>>49932488
Is this a meme?

Click the OP image, anon. It's a pdf of the rulebook.

>>49932501
Not him, but he's asking where the PDF in the OP came from, since the only version of it off of 4chan is epub.

warp spiders are probably OP in this but guardians, vypers and hawks would be fair right?

>>49932516
Right, bluh. No idea. Maybe some converted it into a pdf? Not that I'd know how, since every time I've tried to do that it ends in disaster.

Newfag here, what's a dece Blood Angels list?

>>49932872
For GW Kill Team or HoR? Either way, you should be bringing some gorgeous jump pack boys with fancy power weapons. Otherwise you might as well be playing Ultramarines.

I'm trying to build a harlequin kill team for gw. options seem super limited, but has anyone had good success with them?

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What would you include in the 'command squad' of an Iron Warriors Warsmith? I am going to build them mainly as models but also as an assassination objective for HoR.

The remaining points will just be filled out with cultists to represent the IW slave soldiers who are nearby. I am thinking 5-6 guys is probably ideal for such a thing.

So are there any other real "viable" IG builds for kill team that are not just Vets and a chimera? Also how do Commissars and other "squad upgrades" that dont have force org spots work?

>>49933251
HoR. Figured they'd be cheap and prettier than Grey Knights.

>>49935109
Multiple squads of vets works well. Armored Sentinels are pretty good too.

Honestly it's kind of hard to not take vets due to the way the platoon works, which is our only other troops choice. And if your club has a douchey little house rule because they can't figure out how to deal with more than 20 T3 LD 7 models with T shirts the vets are literally your only choice.

Stormtroopers can do work as well, but you'll have to play it smart. And again, stormtroopers may as well be vets with shinier toys. Move through cover and AP 3 main weapons is awful handy though, although they are hellishly expensive. If you are going to take vets, make sure you take a volley gun with split fire, that's the biggest bonus you get with stormtroopers.


Your other option is something like ogryn, or doing vet squad with camo gear/autocannon and 3 armored sentinels for a sentinel recon detachment.

Also, another new player in my group is trying ratlings. They had a poor initial showing as he was fighting my Guard, but I feel like they'd contribute more against tougher enemies like Necrons or nids. Plus they make a good "filler" unit since you can buy 3 for 30pts. On top of that, they have infiltrate and a few other nice little rules like stealth.

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so is genestealer cult just fucked out of using their return to the shadows and special infiltration rules to redeploy constantly?

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Which of these Kill Team lists looks superior?

The core of the list will be 5 Scourges, 4 of which are armed with heat lances.

Option 1: adds 6 Mandrakes
Option 2: adds 10 Warriors
Option 3: goes half-and-half with 3 Mandrakes and 5 Warriors

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>>49936536
Used the wrong picture. Here's what I cut out the first time.

Need a decent Iron Hands list for HoR. I suck at making lists.

>>49936550
I've got to ask because I'm retarded but what program is this?

>>49936743
It's pretty useful:
http://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#/rosterCreator

It can take a little while to get used to the formatting (you have to drag and drop units from the roster to the build area, for example), but so far I love using it.

>>49936743
Some new thing /40kg/ is masturbating over

It's still got some flaws so I wouldn't trust any lists from it just yet. The IG one at least had several flaws and or really fucking annoying things in it but it'll probably get fixed over time. At least it's free I guess.

>>49936793
Sick thank you

>>49936850
Yeah, it's not entirely accurate. Dark Eldar jetbikes, for example, can only take 1 heat lance/blaster per 3 models, but this list maker lets you take one on every model.

I'd suggest making the list on paper, using the codex, and then just using this program to make it look neater.

Can I make a viable Killteam with 14 tactical marines? I basically have 10 tactical marines and 4 tac-marines with special weapons.

TL;DR: How viable is two tactical squads of roughly 6 men each in a killteam?

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sup guys, do you have any advice for a skitarii kill team ?
i have tried a sydonian dragoon with lance, with vanguard and rangers with 2 arc rifle, or 10vanguard with 5 rangers.

the sydonian dragoon kept getting killed due to have to charge people with krak grenade/melta/other
the two haywire gun are really marvellous though.

but i kept getting rekt. Some help please ?

>>49936636
In the same boat dude.

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>>49937834 Skitarii are
glass cannon - good in kill team but fragile

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>>49937038
add a razorback or rino

OR use them as vanguard/sternguard
special bolter ammo is da bomb

>>49937987
they are pretty squishy, instant kill with strenght 6 on alpha is hard
that's why i though the dragoon was a good idea to tank wound

any advice though ?
someone suggested me a plasma caliver with preferred ennemy
but that would mean less dudes

A new army type added to Warhammer 40,000, the Skitarii have some very interesting tricks that many players are not familiar with yet. We actually tested these units out in Kill Team the very day the White Dwarf magazine came out.
Doctrina Imperatives - A strange rule that allows you to adjust your stats through the course of a game, this is a force multiplier. It turns out you usually use your Ballistic Skill-enhancing doctrines at the start and your Weapon Skill-related ones near the end, but this can completely surprise your opponent.
Skitarii Vanguard - Now often regarded as one of the best value-for-points units, their affordability makes them ideal for Kill Team. Their low-cost combined with their competitiveness actually made us remove units from the above army entries, such as Ork Boyz and Imperial Guard Veterans, because they're at about the same points cost and are both more deadly yet just as durable. They have exotic rules like Rad-Saturation that lowers the Toughness of their opponent, which when combined with the aforementioned Doctrina Imperatives, not only let them stand toe-to-toe with Space Marines, but can possibly exceed them in close combat! You may need to take some Anti-Vehicle weapons, and in 1 squad you can fit as many as 3 such Special Weapons (which are also excellent and unique to this army type), but they do get a bit pricey. Even when factoring those costs, we believe they're still a very cost-effective choice in Kill Team where cost is a major factor.

Sydonian Dragoon - This Walker unit is at EXACTLY the maximum armour value allowed in Kill Team, making it a very tough melee unit that can quite possibly get the jump on the one or two anti-vehicle weapon-carrying unit(s) your opponent might be fielding. If needed, take that extra turn to maneuver a Dragoon around his flank and "cross the T". Of course, it is still vulnerable to Krak Grenade spam, thus there are instances when you would want to replace its lance with the Radium Jezzail, a sniping weapon that's also quite suited for Kill Team. Again, an exotic unit for Kill Team that may catch your opponents off-guard. Please note, their Broad Spectrum Data-Tether's buff to nearby units' Leadership DOES have an effect on the Break Test mechanic...just another fancy piece of wargear that gives the Skitarii a slight advantage.
Remember that you can't use the Skitarii Maniple Command Benefits in Kill Team - Even within 200 points, you can fulfill the requirements for the Skitarii Maniple detachment, which gives Crusader and Scout. Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to Kill Team games Rules As Written because they have to use their own Force Organisation Chart called a Kill Team Detachment. We only mention this because this is the one army where units can be so cheap that it actually fulfills the prerequisites for a formation. We're sorry about this; Crusader and Scout would have been excellent additions under Kill Team conditions.

>>49937834
Dragoon is okay but not fantastic. For me, it's between:

>15 Skitarii Vanguard, and either 3 Arc Rifles or 1 Arc Rifle 1 Plasma Caliver
>10 Secutarii Peltasts, 5 Skitarii Vanguard, Arc Rifle
>10 Skitarii Vanguard, Sydonian Dragoon, Serpenta, and either 5 more Vanguard or a Plamsa Caliver and Arc Rifle

And of course the obligatory

>5 Sicarian Infiltrators w/ whatever seems fun

Ultimately Rangers aren't ideal, but that's not to say they're terrible, Move Through Cover is nice and the rifles are hilarious on anything short of MEQs.

Nice enough, literally anything you can take is good. Maybe not ideal (Ruststalkers, though against vehicles it's funny) but still decent. Play to your advantages and stick to cover and it's a pretty good time. But above all play smart

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>>49938220
Doctrina Imperatives are not used in Kill Team games.

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>>49938347
thx, not much of a skitt player

>>49938220
>>49938237
>>49938265
thanks mate for the back up !
but you can't use doctrina imperative in kill team.
i love the ranger because their range is amazing, which means i can park them somewhere to snipe everyone, and they are only 2 points above vanguard
i might give a second chance to the dragoon, with a serpenta and avoiding contact to tank/harass the ennemy (i also completely forget that it also has a data-tether command buff)

i think i will try
sydonian dragoon with lance and serpenta
5 rangers
5 vanguards, alpha with arc-pistol, arc-rifle

>>49938347

I hate how you can't use Guardian Drones (+5 invulnerable to every Breacher in the unit) for Tau Breachers in KillTeam. Come on!

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>>49938718
6 of those invisible troops kicked my azz in kill team last week

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hey uh, its that guard player from a few threads ago, i finalized my list and i'm wondering whats a good way to take on MEQs while preserving my men if i can?

Here's my list

1st squad. Veterans (worth 136 points)
Chimera (65)
armed with turret mounted Autocannon
and hull mounted heavy flamer.
Veteran Sergeant(Warlord) (his name is Archibald Duckweave) Armed with a Bolter and CCW
one melta vet (specialist, guerrilla rules. infiltrate.)
and eight standard vets with lasguns.

2nd squad. Veterans.
Veteran Sergeant (speciallist. combat.. rules Killer instinct.) with CCW & Las pistol.
Two sniper Vets. (one is a Weapons specialist with the rule Expert shot)
and seven standard vets with lasguns.

>>49938220
>>49938347
In HoR Killteam doctrinas work just fine.

>>49938553
I don't mean Doctrina Imperatives, but Vanguard give a debug of -1T to enemies in close combat, and Infiltrators have their fancy aura thing.

Additionally, if you're bringing a Dragoon, I'd advise you go ahead and slap stealth on it. The 4+ cover save is nice, and if you have good cover then enjoy dancing around with a 2+ save. It's a fun time

Hey, getting started in Killteam/40k in general. I am building a Raptors SM chapter army, what are best units to take? How do I adapt to fighting the strongest factions in the meta?

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I've been away from 40k for abit is kill team a good way of getting back in without the bullshit?

>>49939372
For Raptors, you want lots of Bolters on stationary platforms. As such, either Tactical or Scout Spam will fit- scouts are likely your bet with cloaks + stealth.

However, Sternguard are a solid option too, and you'll get the Specialty Ammo on top of it.

>>49939436
There's still bullshit, but it's much more easily countered and isn't quite instant win as full size. From what I've heard the worst offender is Eldar Warp Spiders.

That said my local group has been playing a ton of it, whereas before Kill Team came out we'd pretty much sworn ourselves off of it for good. It's a lot of fun and since you only need a couple of boxes people can actually afford to start it. I think we've had our 4 man group increase to about 15 thanks to all the new blood buying into it. Most will probably never go up past kill team but it's nice to have new opponents and kill team is pretty fun as a game in its own right.

I'm new to 40k in general, but a buddy and split the death masque set and I got the harlequins...

I'm putting a kill team together with them for a newbie tourney at the flgs but I feel like I'm getting ripped off as far as points go.

my team, currently
1 troupe leader with crescendo and embrace.
4 players with pistols and embrace
a starweaver.

think this will work? alternatives are slim. I could technically go jester and jet bikes or swap the starweaver for a seer? or should I just get some Eldar and say fuck it?

>>49940365
Honestly? Fuck it. Eldar are better in every way, even the least cheesy routes will overpower Harlequins almost everywhere.

Go with what you want, though. KT shouldn't cost more than a hundred dollars for a full team, so I'd recommend you think about what to go with. Harries aren't bad, just be wary of low model count and low toughness, the 5++ isn't all that helpful.

>>49940482
yeah, that's my fear. I'm gonna get blasted off the table by bigger armies. I already spent so much on harlequins but I also want to actually enjoy me games.

you think I have any chance at winning with the death masque stuff?

Does an Omnispec given to a squad effect the whole squad, or just the model who's holding it?

>>49940785
Shouldn't, given the way other upgrades like medics work.

>>49926850
Just was going over my list and wanted to confirm that.

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Any ideas for a decent Iron Hands HoR list at 250 pts?

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Reposting, plix reply

I'm thinking of running a list like this

Chaos marines - iron warriors

Cultist champion: carapace, bolt pistol

2 cultist squads : flamers

5 chaos marines: 2 autocannons

1 chosen: autocannon

1 terminator: reaper autocannon

About 240 points. Is this many autocannons cheesy? I could mix it up with a missile launcher or a heavy bolter if so

>>49942959
You can't take terminators in Kill Team since they have 2+ armour saves. Also, you are still bound by unit restrictions in the codex, so you can't take 2 autocannons in a 5 man squad, nor can would you have been able to take a single terminator by itself (let alone with a reaper autocannon) anyway.

I'd suggest actually reading the Kill Team rules before making a list.

>>49943063
I think it's HoR list since he also went to 240 points. People should mark which version of KT they are talking about when publishing their lists.

>>49943378
What is the appeal of HoR, by the way? I can't see a reason to use it other than it being less restrictive and thus easier to break.

>>49943454
>implying GW KT isnt also unbalanced as fuck

>>49943378

True. Each has different points limits and what each team can take. Personally, HoR/s makes sense for allowing limited 2+ armor saves because the models that run with those are usually expensive and can be drowned in horde lists.

Still, neat synergy going on with the balance:
>Balanced Team < Elite Team
>Elite Team < Horde Team
>Horde Team < Balanced Team

>>49943454

GW sanctioned KT is already easy to break, might as well run some neat lists and fun builds while you're at it. HoR has a lot of appeal. The lists are tailored so they have a lot of mini-HQ and other units, as well as some of the restricted models and fluffier wargear so you can built your own personalized HQ and really "Your Dudes" up the playing field.

>>49943533
My post is implying that now that I read it again, but that was not my intention. Nothing GW releases is truly balanced, but I don't see how making something even less balanced would improve it.

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>>49943454
>less restrictive
>easier to break

Have you actually... read HoR?

>>49943546
>GW sanctioned KT is already easy to break, might as well run some neat lists and fun builds while you're at it. HoR has a lot of appeal. The lists are tailored so they have a lot of mini-HQ and other units, as well as some of the restricted models and fluffier wargear so you can built your own personalized HQ and really "Your Dudes" up the playing field.
I see. That actually does make a good deal of sense. Thank you.

>>49943587

I know Orks get a set of Kaptin gear if you want to make them Freebootaz and fluffy, and Tau can basically make themselves a mini-Farsight Crisis Suit leader, complete with a counts-as Power Sword.

Still, most of the egregious stuff is out, and even if you can bring something big and heavy to the field, the cluttered terrain and heavy points cost makes it a liability. A lot like bringing a TAG in an Infinity game, actually.

>>49936492
cannot deep strike, or generate more model in Kill Team anon. (summon, redeploy etc....)

>>49943063
It is HoR btw

>>49915391
Alright guys, I need some help. I managed to convince a buddy of mine to get into WH40k and he's been reading up on IG. What's a good list for him to play a game of GW KT? (Most likely against Tau or Chaos SM).

I want to be able to guide him so he has a pretty decent list so it's not just one sided (I am unfamiliar with IG)

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>>49939436
If you are going beckm then roll with HoR, I think it is less derpy compared to normal kill team.

Anyone could explain if I'm correct on how artillery works?
- Crew uses gun's toughness when tanking ranged attacks (T7), but uses their own cover/armour save for wounds instead of gun's save(3+).
- When doing morale checks gun does not count as beeing there
- Artillery can snapshot as long as it is not firing blasts, also artillery can run.

Thing is - I don't understand why 1d4chan recommends taking crew artillery members for mek gunz. You can have a crew of 4 grots max, which means they take morale tests whenever a crewmember dies with LD5. Whats the point of taking additional crew members then if they are going to run as soon as 1 grot dies?

>>49943454
Well, for starters medics share FnP in a 6` bubble around them.

>>49942672

All bikers with 4+ FNP.

Why the hell do the HoR Sisters have a Leader for 45 points with 3 wounds ? Did no one explain what Kill Team is about to these people ? Even the Space Marine list writers aren't retarded enough to do something like that.

>>49947799
Orks get boss nob with 3 wounds for 18 points. Or Kaptin-flashgit with 3 wounds for 22. Get jelly. Although they come with no armour but a 6+ T-shirt.

Although boss nob is kinda an exception to the rule. There was a poll on whether or not make him 3 wounds and people decided that 3 wounds was the way to go.

>>49947850
Yeah but they're Orks, it makes sense for them, same with say Tyranids and perhaps Daemons. High wounds and low save to balance itself out and be fluffy.

But the Palantine is basically a HQ instead of a buffed sergeant.

>>49947319
Because you may have a Nob nearby who'll slap/shoot a grot to stop them from running away. That's as best as I can figure it.

>>49942959
Missile Launchers are real good. Krak Missiles will pop MEQs and Tyranid Warriors and frags can take chunks out of any squads your opponent may have. That and you'll be able to do some good anti-armour work with them, if there's any on the table.

>>49947799

T3 makes it pretty damn easy to gib them. That and presumably they wanted to give the 'Generic' leader something that couldn't be gotten better from Seraphim or Celestians.

>>49947799

The space marine list writers were retarded enough to allow the T5 2W marine babycarriers all over the place in kill team.

>>49946971
Veterans with melta and/or plasma will give him stuff to punch through armour with, and a chimera is probably a good idea too. IG are unfortunately kinda crap in GW KT since the only way to get access to their Orders is by buying an infantry platoon, which alone takes you up to ~25 models, and gives you access to a single, non-senior officer order per turn.

>>49947850
>>49947799
I kinda like that the "weaker" factions can take 3 Wound leaders in HoR. I can see Sisters being on the fence a bit since they do get power armour, but they're also T3 squishies. But then so are Tau, and I don't think they get W3 leaders.

>>49948421
Problem with that is that they don't have Mob Rule and thus are unaffected by nob slapping them. Best you can do is to bring a leader, but ork leaders should be on front lines getting stuck in. Runtherds can beat Gretchin mobs, but not artillery crew.

I think I'll post it in Facebook orks discussion some time later. As of late I've managed to contact a dude behind ork codex - he is total bro-tier. There will be some fixes about orks (Rokkit packs run move becomming 6`+d6 instead of 2d6; flashgit's gitpole range extended to 6` from 3`, grots not triggering nerve tests)

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I know this is a kill team thread but....
Does anyone know if (in 40k 7th E) in an IG army, you can take 2 meltas AND a vox in a Scion squad (5 guy team). Still new & not sure if the codex means only 2 upgrades possible or 2 upgrades, but must be separate from other models.

>>49948560
Not got the rules in front of me, but in pretty much every case with special weapons the limit is explicitly for those weapons and not for all the other upgrades the squad can take.

For example, a regular guardsman squad can take one special weapon. Doing so does not prevent it from also taking a vox caster, nor does it stop two soldiers from forming a team and taking a heavy weapon. If upgrades are mutually exclusive it'll say so clearly, like with Veteran squads being unable to take a 3rd special weapon if one dude has already taken a heavy flamer.

>>49948556
>As of late I've managed to contact a dude behind ork codex - he is total bro-tier.

While you're there, the current HoR Ork dex has several errors

>Ork Nobz initiative too low
>Ork leaders Leadership should be 8 rather than 7
>Ork Kaptin is missing his entry
>Ork warbikes save should be 4+ rather than 6+
>Mega-Rumblah wargear mistakenly duplicates the text of the Kaptin's Booty wargear right above it

>>49948556
Can you also ask why both the forums and the facebook group aren't visible to people who aren't registered/logged in?

>>49948588
So no go on 2 meltas + vox?

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>>49948611
I could ask this question in a group. I don't see why is it a problem to make an empty FB account and join the group to contribute to discussion. My impression is that HoR forums are way more quiet(but not entirely dead) when it comes to discussion - in facebook group people reply almost instantly.

>>49948601
>Here is FAQ by ork codex creator - I asked him same questions.
http://heraldsofruin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=482

>Here is the "fresh" ork codex , but it does not have everything fixed.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s4l1n2q9lvgm7ji/AABu-Vh9trCDeRdu9FcyK0s7a/Orks/KillTeamOrks%207.0.3.pdf?dl=0

>>49948588
Also, I think I heard from someone else that you are not able to take just a solo Militarum Tempestus Command Squad, is that true? Do you have to form a platoon in order to take it?
Because so far there seems to be no rule saying I can't take it.

>>49948629
Just opened the codex and had a read and I see why the wording is confusing.

You can take a vox caster as well as two meltas, but the scion that takes it cannot have been upgraded already. So you can have your two scions with melta guns and a third with the vox caster. What you can't do is have one of your melta gun people also carry the vox caster.

>>49948601
>>49948652
Oh, and as a sidenote, right now there is a discussion to make Dok and Mekboy characters. (so you can save their sorry expensive 6+ asses with sluggas sacrifices on Look Out Sir)

>>49948656
That's right. If you're taking MTs in a guard army then you can only get them as part of a platoon. A platoon can be as few as a single command squad and a minimum size scion squad, but there's no option to get the command squad by itself. Look at the wording at the top of page 99.

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>>49948673
Ok good to know. Thanks

>>49948696
Wording on top doesn't seem restrictive, it only states rules for building a platoon. And the wording just above the CMD squad only references similar buildings for a platoon. But it doesn't say it can ONLY be taken as a platoon.

I will go with your guy's wisdom & not question the emprah lmao
I do think a suicide squad CMD squad is kind of a waste of 15 additional points if I am using it for a shock & awe suicide unit anyway.

>>49936550
>>49936536
What website/program is this?

>>49948864
I think >>49936793 links to it.

>>49932433
>>49932516
Some kindly anon made it for the 40k general right when it released, before we had an epub. He had to compress it hard to meet the pdf size requirements here, which is why it's quality is so meh, and also why the general left it behind once the epub was released.

The more you know.

>>49949552
Is there a consensus on what the best epub reader for GW stuff is? Everything I use mangles their stuff terribly.

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>>49949596
I hear Readium (Redium?) gets touted a lot. I use Epub File Reader because it's clean and, while still slightly broken, it's still serviceable enough that I don't need to make a switch yet. The ability to zoom solves 90% of the problems.

>>49949628
Zooming is nice. Why don't all epub readers let you zoom? Why do they make me long for bloated pdf files and adobe reader?

What do you think, are big shootas a must in any boy mob, whether in `ard armour or without, shooty or choppy? 5 pts for assault 3 STR5 seems like a steal, yet sometimes I wonder if it could be skipped.

>>49949757
More dakka is always good, and 5pts is pretty cheap. Orks are not accurate, however, which drops its utility a bit. Best to take them to begin with and then cut back if you're short of points for something tasty.

>>49916122
Your friend lied to you. Each model is a separate unit in KT.

>>49949845
>>49916122
Yeah, in GW KT there's no way for nearby models to jump into a melee. They're all separate units, so there's no pile in moves for unengaged models.

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Considering a five-man Terminator for HoRKT. God, I'm fucking over myself on the amount of wounds but a group of just 5 models really captures that heroic feeling for me.

Sadly I have only 50 points to make each one of them unique, any ideas for loadout ? I'll go cheap with a flamethrower, one TH/SS combo and one pair of lighting claws, what to do with the remaining 30 points ?

>>49950104
Anything else that increases survivability. Plasma and melta is going to make you cry.

Would it be possible to do a not-shit Kroot kill team in either KT or HoR?
I love kroot in the fluff but I don't want to play Tau

>>49950161
I was considering swaping out one of them for a Deathwing Knight but it might be too close to the guy with TH/SS aesthetically.

I just finished painting up some Fire Warriors and am now painting up a Devilfish. /TG/, what are your thoughts on the brave old Devilfish in this format? The Smart Missile system seems competitive in theory due to terrain being so dense in KT; not only do you not need line of sight, but you can ignore cover saves!

Making the Devilfish itself a Split Firer makes it especially powerful too. 12 front armour is very hard to deal with too. The only downside I can see is no firing points. Of course, this is all theoretically speaking. If anyone here has any other insights or practical experience, it would be much obliged.

MOAR TAU

Any decent kill team for Necrons in HoR?

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>>49952266
more tau you said?

here's my 200 pt allotment.

>>49953309
Fuk yar

thanks, anon

Can i pick the same specialist skill for my team? can all the Tau take Eagle Eye? :D

>>49954022
no. no two specialists can be from the same category. this applies to the leader "been there done that etc" trait. the kill team rulebook details this on the first page of specialists.

>>49915391
So, our local meta has hosted two kill team tournaments recently. The one who won both the ongoing 4 week tournament and the other was using his ravenwing black knights. I can't tell you how many times I saw those bikes save themselves with their re-roll able jink. He was undefeated in the campaign, and tabled all but one of his opponents in the single day tournament- one of which was a list of no less than 20 boyz. We have also noticed that reaping volley heavy bolters on a high ledge really put in some work. For the Emperor!

>>49954296
How can one man stand against such cheese?

The Cheese stands alone.

>>49954296
Jink is a cover save.
Fuck him up with ignores cover.
Just be careful not to take his place as cheesemaster.

>>49954296
what are you running? as >>49955564 said, you'd benefit from burst/ignore covers stuff.

ravenwing black knights are expensive, so he probably doesn't have that many units. a horde army might be a good idea; just get in enough shots that eventually the dice are on your side.

>>49936536
>>49936550
Can anyone offer me some advice on these?
I'm leaning towards the third option, but I'm just not sure.

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>>49953327
>>49953309
For the love of Aun'va don't use this list. Boys before toys, PLEASE! Also, never, ever take twin-linked weapons on the suits. It's always better to just take regular weapons for points efficiency. Example:

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I've been looking to get to Warhammer 40.000 for a while now, and that Kill team ruleset looks like a cheap and reliable way to get into the game.

I've never played any 40.000 before, only some Fantasy battle but it was years ago. I'd really like to make and paint some Space Wolves dude, kit them with furs and skulls, but what would you recommend me to buy to have a nice rounded starting team for a Kill Team ?

Are Lone Wolves authorized in Kill Team ?

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>>49957775
Technically, yes, you can take a single Lone Wolf because you only get one Elites choice in KT. However, there are better ways to spend your points. Here's an example of a tough Space Wolves KT.

>>49958081
I am a little intimidated in buying those, they look a little complex to handle.

Can't I a good team made with Grey Hunters or Blood Claws ? The very basic space marine that look nicely customizable ?

>>49957586
What program is this that puts the units on the list?

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>>49958325
Basic marines are always a solid choice too, yeah. They're durable and come stock standard with great weapons like Boltguns, Frag & Krak Grenades. And They Shall Know No Fear also allows you to reroll your break tests, making the team even stronger against adversity. I believe are the Grey Hunters are the Space Wolves tactical marine equivalents, so try those. Boys before toys, so favour a higher model count over fancy gear. Have fun!

>>49958701
http://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#/rosterCreator

>>49958742
THE FIST THAT PIERCES THE HEAVENS WILL BE OURS!

Thanks for the link!

Anyone play combat patrol? Basically 400 pts GW killteam, same restrictions but plus 1 HQ (non compulsory), +1 HS slot and a non HQ leader gets a stat buff.

I want to try it as I it would remove some of the cheese in regular 40k

where's the rule in KT that you buy per model rather than having to buy the minimum unit?

Or is that a HoR thing only?

Does your Kill Team group allow Forge World stuff?

Mine decided it'd be a fun add-on to allow 30k and some of the FW exclusives, and man has it been a blast. I've added in some Vorax Automata, some guy brought some of the Eldar specter guys, and a friend used some Secutarii Peltasts- and damn, are they dirty.

If I'd have known how fun it was, I would've pushed for this a long time ago. Not to mention the pair of T6 3-Wound Monstrous Creatures charging down the board. However, the 4+ makes it pretty balanced, one of mine got shut down way, way before it could do anything useful. Stil very fun, good times all around

>>49959201
Nowhere in the rulebook does it say you buy per model. You purchase in squads and come deployment, each member of the unit becomes a unit unto their self.

>>49959201
that's HoR only.

Where does the Vengeance is Victory rulea for 30k fall into kill team? It's kind of like kill team for horua heresy.

Any good lists for a Deathwatch Kill Team? I keep getting my shit pushed by tau.

>>49959004
where are the rules for that? I remember seeing it in the 5th ed book I want to say but that's been a long time ago

>>49960154
What list are they running? Lots of rifles? Elites?

Is it possible to mix codecs? Can I use harlequins and dark eldar, for instance?

>>49960154
Take 9 blank vets. Maybe 8 and one with a Stalker, one with a Reaping Volley Heavy Bolter. Stay out of LoS, be a call-of-duty level camper with your shotguns and bolters.

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>>49960485
Ask your local group, but I can't see why not, as long as it's not about minmaxing. Got a list in mind?

>>49960562
I was asking you guys before I took the time to build one or brought it up with the game store. I don't want to look like a complete idiot/jerk.

>>49960485
>>49960562

No, this is illegal.

"Each player can spend up to 200 points on their Kill Team, chosen from a SINGLE codex or codex supplement..."

>>49960686
Yup, there it is. Damn, was hoping to stretch some points.

Let's face facts: if I go into a 200 point game with 5 3+ T4 guys I'm going to get pooped on aren't I?

hey imma play killteam for the first time, give me advice on my list

Kill Team

Chaos Space Marines (5) - 102pts
1 Aspiring Champion: Champion of Chaos,Close combat weapon,Bolt pistol,Combi-bolter,Melta bombs
2 Chaos Space Marine: Boltgun,Bolt pistol
1 Chaos Space Marine: Boltgun,Bolt pistol,Close combat weapon
1 Chaos Space Marine: Plasma gun,Bolt pistol,Close combat weapon

Chaos Cultists (17) - 98pts
1 Cultist Champion: Autopistol
15 Chaos Cultist: Autogun
1 Chaos Cultist: Heavy stubber

30k alpha legion kill team

Veteran tactical squad
5 men - 125
2 more -30
2 power weapons-20
1 heavy bolter with suspensor-20
1 power dagger: 5

>>49960942
>>49961177

Use this.

http://webapplications-webroster.rhcloud.com/rc/web/#/rosterCreator

>>49961599
That site doesn't have 30k list-building options.

>>49960929
If you've decided to go for a heroic last stand, then all that matters is that you can take down as many of the bastards as you can with you.

>>49950892
I'd rather take the DS8 and attach it to a cover camper. Doesn't come in until turn 2, but it's 1/8th of the points and comes back on death.

>>49963075
The DS8 doesn't work in KT under RAW. Clearly, they intended for it to work because it's in the Kill Team starter box, but it requires a member of its unit to interact with it. All models are units unto themselves in Kill Team, and thus, the turret has no members of its unit within proximity at any given time.

>>49957775
Just roll with HoR Killteam anon.

And yes, KT is much more fun and balanced compared to 40k, at least there are less pure cheese presented. Also easier to learn since you are moving 10-30 models compared to fuckton of units in normal 40k.

>>49963821
HoR is far more complicated. Bare in mind you're talking to someone who hasn't played regular 40k, let alone the shitload of extras that HoR brings.

>>49963866
I've got to agree, although I'm incredibly fond of HoR's force lists. It's supports having a small team of Your Dudes far better. Still, GW 40k means you only have to learn a handful of brief rules on top of the regular 40k ones, as opposed to all the stuff about pinning, climbing, jumping, counter charging, etc.

>>49944867

Cult Ambush isn't Deep Striking, which is nice.

>>49963866
I wouldn't say that HoR brings that much on top - its just he fact that 40k is overloaded with fuckton of rules on it's own. Besides you could skip some HoR special rules like flamer or close combat modifications. Me and a friend started playing with barebones 40k rules and then added rules as time passed.

Reason why I'm promoting HoR is that unlike GW, HoR community actually cares. There is no such fuck ups as tau turrets destroying themselves as soon as they deploy since they are units on it's own or medics giving FnP to themselves only (since they are the only model in their own unit). Ruins do not slow you down to a crawl and give you cover only when you are actually covered(and not when your model is standing on ruins base), your dudes suddenly learned to run reliably and hop over fences/windows. It makes for a faster game and just makes much more common sense.

Normal Killteam is basically GW throwing 40k into 200 pts game format with every model as a separate unit. HoR actually reajusts rules and stats to balance it out. Also it is easier to get in touch with codex creators and suggest/ask stuff when they are loyal fans making for fans.

Are you allowed to play farsight enclaves and take xv8s crisis as troop choices?

>>49964604
Is the Farsight Enclave a single army list? If so then I don't see why not.

>>49964640
If you are asking whether it has its own codex and can be run by itself, then yes it can.
Yay XV8 troops

How many Tacticals is enough before you start buying other stuff in Kill Team ? Is 5 fine or should you get more ?

>>49966601
Boys before toys. You should honestly spam tacticals right to the limit, which is 14 bodies if you're feeling lucky, or 12 bodies with two anti-vehicle guns (Plasma/ Melta). 5 is nowhere near enough.

>>49966601
5 is the minimum buy for a Troop choice, if that's what you mean. Do try to get a good number of bodies out there though.

Renegades and Heretics

Renegade Marauder Squad (55)
+2 Meltagun (20)
+Power wpn on chief (15)
Total: 90pts

Renegade Infantry Veterans (35)
+2 meltagun (20)
Total: 55pts

Renegade Mutant Rabble (30)
+8 mutants (24)
Total: 54pts

Grand Total: 199pts
29 Models, 4 with Meltaguns.

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Been looking to run a KT with Assault Squads. Going with free Rhino transports 'cause hell why not?

>>49969037
I'm not sure this is legal. Didn't the newest BA codex make Assault Squads back into Fast Attack choices?
In Kill Team games, you can only have 0-1 FA choices.

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>>49969286
Shit, you're right. How's this then? Two tactical squads, six units each, one heavy flamer, one mulit-melta.

>>49970311
Flamer weapons in general are significantly less useful in Kill Team since unit coherency isn't really a thing. The Heavy Flamer is useful in terms of being an Assault weapon, but it's range and it's inability to get the usual high number of hits makes it a dubious choice.
I'm not sure how to advise you on other weapons, though. Maybe a meltagun?
That would help against vehicles (they do pop up from time-to-time) and high toughness models (fucking Eldar).

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So it's starting. How long until we get the event rules ?

>>49969037
Where are people generating these lists?

>>49971433
see >>49961599

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Here's my list. It's mainly for facing marines, necrons, and I guess Chaos Marines:

Bike Squad:
2 Bikers with Grav (one of them has Ignores cover, the other has FNP)
1 Biker Sgt with Combi Grav

Tac Squad:
Vet Sgt with nothing
3 bolter guys with nothing
1 Grav-Gun guy with relentless


Is this good? Is this bad? Is it cheese and if so, should I kill myself immediately?

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The Sgt and two dudes with the heavy weapons should have shotguns as their backup weapons but couldn't select it on the site. How's it look for six operators operating operationally?
It's for GW's kill team

>>49915391
>heralds of ruin has rules for squats
I'm really considering buying just enough squats for a kill team. Or maybe backing that Squat kickstarter.

how would an Inquisitorial henchmen cadre work in kill team? single models give rules that apply to the whole unit which often vary by turn, does it still count as 'one unit' for these purposes?

I am ready to assemble my Tau.

Prime on sprue or on base?

>>49915391
How is killteam? I used to love the old Sunday mega-battles at GW where everyone played one unit's worth of models, but army-scale 40k has always felt like a slog to me. It takes several hours to get through six turns, and by the end of it the battle usually didn't have a clear winner and you just had to count up who had more points. I ended up buying an entire army box worth of Space Marines (and Lizardmen, for Fantasy) and then used both of them maybe twice each for full-scale games.

A skirmish-level 40k game feels like it would solve a lot of my issues with Warhammer and 40k.

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My list for a planned army using models from Victorian Miniatures (Specifically the Aussie-Tastic Van Dieman's World Devils) with some editing from the original build.

All models will use flak chests with mk.1 shoulder plates and all carapace armor will be represented with trench raider armor, shoulder plates, and groin guards.

All lasguns will be the Mk2 since its pretty much the GeeDubs version.

The two officers will use field caps instead of the slouch caps.

>>49974454
Real good, IMHO. I abandoned 40k for Warmachine and Malifaux a long time ago, for the same reasons you don't like it, and because they nerfed my Sisters. (I later bailed out of minis altogether.)

My FLGS got big into the KT release, so I bought a box of Skitarii, and have been having a blast.

It's not a slog (Unless you're up against That Guy and his 40-grot list), and a lot of the cheesy strats that drove me away from 40k are avoided due to the low point cap.

>>49972214
Not in GW Kill Team; Every Man for Himself means that rules on a model that affect its unit only affect itself. HoR uses area of effect for these types of rules, might be more what you're looking for.

>>49971779
It's weak, honestly. Yeah, grav is good, but you forgo so many bodies in using it. Veteran Sergeants are wasted points. You get marginal stat gain for a 10 point price hike. Play some more rudimentary weapons that would work against less-heavily armoured units as well as heavily armoured ones, like melta or plasma. Your trusty bolter is nothing to sneeze at either. Never forget that when making the decision to choose a fancy gun over another marine.

>>49971230
Ugh! None in Australia! I'm finding it so hard to find games!

>>49971973
It looks flimsy because you've only got 6 T4 bodies with 1 wound, one of which costed you 35 points and is incapable of ranged combat.

>>49978412
closest one to me is 4 hour drive.
Goddamit.

Anyway, I want to try kill team.
I susually go with fluffy list, so i'll just put on the table my fav skitarii model, which is 2 dragoons and 10 vanguard with no gear upgrade.
It may work or should i cut one dragoon,/5 vanguard?

>>49971779
Going a bit heavy on grav there man, I would heavily reconsider and take some other weapons as well.

I mean, take IG for example. You're gonna wound them on FIVES, and they're gonna outnumber you at least 2 to 1 and still have vehicles, plasma, etc.

That said, a biker with a plasma or flamer would probably be pretty handy. I'd keep a single grav gun with perhaps rending volley on a biker if you just really want to murder power armor, but that'd be it.

>>49971973
I know a guy who ran something similar to this against my guard.

My advice would be to give the jetpack guy the super hammer with S10 and scout. You have not seen rape until you've seen that model cover 24" in the first turn and has decided that come hell or high water your chimera dies this turn.

On the other hand, having only 5 power armored marines running around can really hurt you in kill team if you're not careful or roll badly. Especially if you run into someone crazy like me who loves to run an ignores cover plasma gunner veteran with my IG.

Would Elysian Drop Troop Veteran with Special Weapons spam be effective in HoR Kill Team? Say 6 squads of 3 veterans with one special weapon and a leader.

Anyone got experience with deep striking in HoR?

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>>49948652
Alright, signing up for an expandable facebook account and getting onto the HoR group was worth it for this alone.

>>49981420
Oh shit, anon, I think I just found an army I want to try after I'm done with "Git gud with orks" bit. These look fucking amazing.

>>49960942
You can only have one HQ leader in HOR. You currently have two, a cultist champion and an aspiring champion.

>>49982209
Nvm I see it's GW

Is it true HoR is closer to fluff?

>>49982253
Yes, in that you can customize the team more.

No in that 3 centurions are unlikely to be on a reconnaissance or assassination mission

>>49974277
Base. Never ever ever prone or paint on sprue. That's just silly.

>>49983517
That should say prime, not prone.

>>49974277
>>49983517
Agreed. If you're worried about painting parts of the torso then just blu-tack the arms on before priming.

>>49977205
>and because they nerfed my Sisters. (I later bailed out of minis altogether.)
Aw dang, I was hoping to go with those.

>>49977255
HoR?

so I'm playing HoR grey knights, and I've decided that because the players I'm playing with either have never played before or haven't played in years, I'm going to play a all terminator list in order to handicap myself. That being said, does anyone have any list recomendations/suggestions to at least give me a fighting chance?

>>49983868
Heralds of Ruin, check the link in the OP.

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>>49915391
Thinking about rolling with this list for kill team. What do you guys recommend and what specialist traits should i be looking to give out?

>>49956348

Your 3rd option is the exact list I came up with previously, but I haven't played it yet. I had been leaning towards HWB but an anon pointed out HLs are better against everything else. Your Scourges will probably die after the first shot though lel. Also apparently Mandrakes and Scourge should be used in near-opposite situations so some anons said it's took much of a take all comers list and should be tailored to meta more.

>>49986109
Makes sense, but I have to admit to being a fan of all-comers lists. I guess I'll just have to give it a try.
I'll post results if I get the chance.

Thanks for the input, anon.

>>49971230
It's got some cool rules for campaign play, if a dude takes all his wounds he might survive for the next game, all surviving models roll on an XP chart for cool buffs like stat boosts or becoming specialists.

>>49985949
Get all the +1 Ballistic and -1 CS shenanigans you can

>>49983851
Actually, Sisters are fine in GW Kill Team. Not OP, but perfectly workable. The newest versions of their "Codex" just lack anything to make them viable as a full army, and KT wasn't much of a thing at the time. So I quit. =P

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Are radical 80s skeleton warrior space ghost marines legal in kill team?

>>49990811
They are but thats most of your points on a squad of five. Do it but be aware you will probably be facing more bodies.

>>49990939
Oh, I'm fine with it being bad, I just wanted to know legality- since normally they deploy t1 from deep strike reserve.


Im thinking 6 dudes, a multi melta, and a sgt with a power weapon.

Need a decent Iron Hands list for HoR.

>>49947799

We all know what Sisterfags are like.

Are termies still illegal in KT?
Haven't touched 40K in a few years.

>>49991461

Bikes, with an Apothecary for 4+ FNP.

Mass Tacticals with an Apoc are good too. Similarly, mass Scouts, though an Apoc won't be able to infiltrate with them.

>>49992048
Any ideas for a good loadout for mass tacs?

>>49992202
Plasma guns are always good and probably the best choice if you're expecting lots of MEQ opponents. Melta too.

Flamers are pretty good in HoR because there's more cover than usual, and they're fun because they can set models on fire.

>>49991997
Not in GW KT (No 2+ saves allowed), can't speak to HoR.

>>49991997
>>49992412

They're legal in HoR.

Updated my Skitarii list to squeeze in a Dragoon. Definitely feeling the loss of Move Through Cover from the Ranger -> Vanguard downgrade, but Rad Carbines are serving me well and having a model that's immune to Bolters is real good.

Skitarii Kill Team: 250 points
Skitarii Vanguard: 205 points
> Vanguard Alpha: Arc Pistol, Power Sword, Refractor Field
> Vanguard: Plasma Caliver (Specialist: Preferred Enemy)
> Vanguard: Plasma Caliver (Specialist: Master Craftsman)
> Vanguard: Arc Rifle (Specialist: Feel No Pain)
> 6x Vanguard: Radium Carbine
Sydonian Dragoons: 45 points
> Dragoon: Radium Jezzail

>>49950245

They can be okay. Sniper rounds make them great at range and HoR gives them a Shaper option as leader. Or was it a psyker option as special? Or both?

>>49959250

I'd say yes. Anything that's infantry scale from FW is generally just neat rather than broken (and sometimes simply subpar), unlike a select few of their huge vehicles. Eldar even get a whole new Aspect warrior in Shadow Specters, with potential for using the sergeant as a leader in HoR.

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>>49929847
1.
Random assault distance forces you to get close to the enemy if you want to be certain. It also gives a useful advantage to Fleet units or anything else able to reroll those dice.

I mean, if you position yourself within 4" of the enemy, there's not much "chance" about it.

2. This again promotes pre-planning in the movement phase to ensure you've got good charges in the Assault phase. If you're used to games like Blood Bowl, this kind of preplanning is trivial.

You can also declare assaults in any order. Use one assault to clear an enemy that's in your way, then charge the enemy past him with another set of your troops.

3. Hah, no. Just no. Melee is punishment in and of itself - you're locked in a bad position most of the time. Kill Team is often about claiming objectives - tricky if all your dudes are tied up fighting.

Show me on the doll where the Wyches touches you, anon.

4. No. You can do that anyway with preplanning, hit and run, or consolidate moves.

>>49994213
Not >>49929847, but these look fucking snazzy.

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>>49994589
https://ironsleet.com/

They are indeed. Read 'em and weep.

>>49994213
Guard player here, I'm all for not getting chopped to bits every game but you gotta admit that assault is way too harsh for assault armies. Shooting armies never have to roll to see their weapon ranges, why the hell do assault armies have to deal with a 2"-12" charge range? At the very least give the poor bastards 6"+d3" or something.

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>>49994748
>>49994748
I absolutely disagree. Gunline armies, in this era of pre-measurement, don't have the same options an assault army has. Your "ability" (shooting) has one result - your enemy dies.

But for an close-combat army, your "ability" has a whole bunch of options.

Let's see. You gain extra movement, and on a 4'x4' table, every inch is much more significant. At the bare minimum, it's an extra 2" - Fleet gives you an extra 3" maximum in HoR. It can very easily give you an extra 6". And if you want to be bold - and sometimes it's vital - you can risk an Overwatch shot for a 10"+ charge.

So assuming you aren't stupid enough to charge a Flamer, an Overwatch shot isn't much of a risk. Don't be stupid and charge a guy next to a Flamer either - pick your targets 3" away.

But anyway, go in. If your enemy has higher initiative, charge with plenty of backup and soak any wounds with bodies. Pick isolated targets if possible - if your enemy bunches up, make sure to force plenty of "Nerve and Pinning" tests, throw blast weapon and grenades at them, and generally make them break 3" coherency.

But wait, there's more! If you fail to kill the enemys with your charge, you might be able to kill them with a sweeping advance... /and/ get extra movement out of it!

BUT WAIT

Hit and run! 3d-glorious-6 of movement! Go hide behind some cover, hop on an objective, flank an enemy, etc.

And if you wipe them out, you get a lovely consolidate move.


Assault armies reward positional play and advanced planning. It's not just "shoot at all the guys you can see". You need to play Blood Bowl style games with your models.

>>49995043
good lord those are gorgeous

>>49994736
NO FUCKING WONDER. I have this site bookmarked.

Makes me sad that I'm 3 hours from the nearest Inquisimunda scene.

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>>49995355
Oh boo hoo. I'm in northern Canada. For 6 months of the year, 3hrs away from the nearest two-lane road.

Time to build your own group, son.

>>49995043
Advantage that shooting armies gets is the ability to focus fire on one target - reliably by the way, since their weapon range is always the same and you need to see at least a bit of the model to qualify for shooting. Meanwhile assault units have to make it there while getting shot and they can't really target whatever they want - more likely they will go after closest models because they block charging to other enemy models behind it. If your opponent is smart, those will be throw away units that die during your charge so your opponent can shoot you some more during shooting phase with the second shooty row.

You keep mentioning consolidate as if it is a godsend, but from my experience so far average 3` of movement won't even get you into cover.

>>49994213
>1
You can move up to 4` and still have the chance to botch it.

as for >2
I don't think you do it like that anon. You declare all assaults that you can, and after everyone you wanted attempted to charge, you roll dice for every fight in whatever order you want. So no, you can't do what you wrote.

>4
What do you mean you can do that with consolidate moves/hit `n run? When you are on the charge you actually want to kill enemy model during his assault phase, and not during your initial charge, so you stay locked in CC during enemy shooting phase. You can't really control this aspect, but at least now you don't start biting your nails when you assault, wipe out enemy model and then are stuck in the open next to enemy shooty units.

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>>49995672
So in Kill Team, on a 4'x4' board with plenty of cover, most straight shots are <24". If you use cover, you can move you assault troops to within 6" of a gunline without ever taking a shot.

And most assault units have 12" pistols too - very handy to focus fire on an "inconvenient" model like a flamer due or the one guy that keeps the enemy within 3" overwatch coherency.

Most of the time, Kill Teams can't afford throwaway screens.

Consolidate isn't a godsend by any means, but it's the cherry on top of... a large pile of cherries. More movement! The game isn't about killing the enemy (usually). It's about meeting your objectives for the mission. To do that, you've usually gotta move.

2. The order in HoR is as follows:

1. Choose an enemy model and declare ALL charges against that model.
2. Resolve Overwatch fire from the charged model (and any models within 3")
3. Roll individual charge ranges for all chargers and move models.
4. Declare and move any counter-chargers.
5. Go back to Step 1 until all enemy models you want to charge, have been charged.

It's all there on p.6

So imagine this. You've got a Space Marine in a bunker holding an objective token. In front of him, in the bunker's only entrance, are 3 other Space Marines with bolters. They're in a "V" formation, about 2" apart, with the lead Marine closest to the door. He blocks LOS into the bunker, and there's not enough room to move past him or his friends without removing at least 2 of them.

The Dark Eldar player has 5 Wyches. In order to seize the objective and win the game, the Dark Eldar player has to kill 4th Space Marine holding the relic.

What is the Dark Eldar player to do?

1. Move as close as possible.
2. Shoot every single pistol shot at the lead Space Marine. 5 shots that hit on a 3+, wound on a 3+

(Grenades might be a good option, but scatter is dangerous here. If you had more than one turn though, it'd be a great way to try and soften up the enemy before charging in)

So in GW KT, my pink horrors are 100% worthless, right?

>>49995981
>And most assault units have 12" pistols too - very handy to focus fire on an "inconvenient" model like a flamer due or the one guy that keeps the enemy within 3" overwatch coherency.

You have to charge what you shoot though, meaning that dedicating fire to that one model will leave that assaulting model with it's metaphorical dick in it's hands out in the open next turn.

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>>49995981
Sorry, got distracted. Meant to say "Hit on a 3+, wound on a 4+, with a 3+ save"

So... not great. But with five shots, there's at least a chance of taking down the Astartes.

Let's assume he lives though. Who should charge here?

If the Dark Eldar player charges Astartes #1 with all five Wyches, we'll take three Overwatch shots (Astartes #4 can't see us). Those shots hurt, but they can only kill three Wyches at worst so we'll still have combat. The Wyches are as close as they can get and are very, very unlikely to fail their charge rolls against Astartes #1.

No matter what, if everyone charges Astartes #1, the Dark Eldar player loses the game as Astartes #4 lives. Boo.

So what's a poor Dark Eldar player to do? Take risks and use positional play.

Astartes #1 needs to die for the game to be winnable. So the Dark Eldar player declares a charge with Wyches # 1, #3, and #6.

That's 9 attacks total at I6, hitting on a 4+ and wounding on a 5+, with a 3+ save. More than decent odds.

Possible results: Astartes #1 dies. Yay. The Dark Eldar Consolidates the fuck out of the way (sideways). Astartes #1 lives but loses the fight. If he falls back that also clears the path. If he lives and doesn't flee, then the game is over.

But couldn't Astartes #2 and # countercharge, you ask? Nope. The rules say "Move the model into contact with any charging model within 3" " and the gaps in the bunker just aren't big enough to let them get close to any charging Dark Eldar.

>>49996086
Fair point, I always forget about that. In that case, you'd pre-plan and use just 3 Wyches with pistols (#1,3,5) to try and clear Astartes #1.

>>49995981
Anon, who made original melee suggestion list here.

> If you use cover, you can move you assault troops to within 6" of a gunline without ever taking a shot.
Maybe we don't use enough cover in our games... Its next to impossible to do to be honest.

This is a good example. In order to remove that leading marine to have a decent charging space you need to shoot this bottlenecker to charge marines inside and give them no shooty phase retalliation. So, an assaulting unit has to shoot something, which is already a bit silly, but okay. What is worse is the fact that you'd have to roll LD tests to charge at other marines - or stay out in the open, getting shot some more.What if you screw up here and he moves marine #2 right behind #1 to bottleneck, while #3 goes behind #2? You get even more shots comming at your direction. Charging everything at marine #1 is an overkill and will not allow you to tie up #2 and #3.

>Basically this situation, which should be favouring assault(shooty units locked in a dead end against melee units) is: shoot marine #1 and pass leadership to charge inside or die during opponent's shooting phase.

>>49996086
In HoR you can roll Leadership check and if you pass - change target of your charge as long as the new target is within 3` of a dead target.

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>>49996097
So let's say Astartes #1 dies and the Wyches consolidate out of the way. Now Wyches #2 and #4 have line of sight to

(I probably should have moved # 4 to the opposite side for this example, but just... pretend that it's about 2" to the left, exactly mirrored of where it is now. Sorry, it's 2am, and I'm trying to remember how it went down in game).

They declare their charge and the Astartes player has a bit of a problem. He's already shot Overwatch with #2 and #3, but #4 has one shot. And Countercharging with #2 and #3 also won't help. The entire fight will occur at Initiative 4, and all the Dark Eldar player has to do is get 1 wound through to win.

6 attacks that hit on a 4+ and wound on a 5+, with a 3+ save, isn't great... but it's better than losing.

So that's positional play.

>>49996117
>Its next to impossible to do to be honest.

See if you can buy some Terraclips terrain. It packs flat, it assembles quickly and uniquely each time, and you can build cities, bunkers, cathedrals, towers, and more.

Also, in this example, it's the last turn of the game - a hail mary play. No need to worry about next turn's shooting.

Forgive me for being an ignorant fool, but how does one determine points? Say it's a model that normally comes as part of a unit, what do? Also, if I'm looking at units can I cherry pick? Like just take Sargents or something? I mean I see that on heralds of ruin they have rules for it, but I don't see them in the official pdf.

>>49996156
I really like pictures that you've provided, kudos for you,since it clears a lot of questions. Did you have this situation in-game?

Problem with this play (which is pretty smart by the way) is the fact that it gets screwed over by rules:

1. Choose an enemy model and declare ALL charges against that model.
2. Resolve Overwatch fire from the charged model (and any models within 3")
3. Roll individual charge ranges for all chargers and move models.
4. Declare and move any counter-chargers.
5. Go back to Step 1 until all enemy models you want to charge, have been charged.

In that list there is no "Roll dice for close combat" before step 5. This means that in your example you have to declare charges and move in for all Wyches you have, one after another and only then you can kill astartes #1. So, no matter what you do, you can't charge astartes #4 unless you shoot #1 with pistols, while skipping shots entirely on those Wyches who get a straight pass to #4 after #1 bites the dust.

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>>49996263
>In that list there is no "Roll dice for close combat" before step 5

Yup. Tooootally missed that there's no "resolve charges" at the end of that list. Well fuck.

I think we're going to houserule that. It leads to much more interesting turns and some fairly interesting plans. Baiting Sweeping Advances, for instance, or consolidating to block countercharges.

Fuck.

And I spent all that time making those diagrams.

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>>49996321
I feel you Anon. Also because of these charge rules you sometimes end up conga-lining your melee guys after one guy, and it is very punishing, since you can contribute only 1 attack during fight with units in a second row. That bit does open a lot of tactical plays, I'd houserule that too.

I kinda wonder how disorganised charge works in HoR - I know that there is a "lead" charger who has to move in a straight line? For example lets say green squad of ork boyz is assaulting reds - earch red is a separate unit.

>>49987324

Damn that's cool.

>>49987324
Got any photos ? Beside the ones that were teased some time ago.

>>49996252
In GW Kill Team, you buy and kit whole units at a time. Every Man For Himself kicks in when you're ready to deploy, so you place one model at a time.

In HoR, each model has a cost.

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>>49936793
I was excited, and then no sisters codex, for what purpose!

>>49996252
If you're playing GW Kill Team then you'll need the corresponding army codex. You buy entire squads from there as normal. So for a marine KT you may take a Tactical Squad as a Troop choice. That's 4 marines + 1 sergeant minimum, with an option to take up to 5 more marines. Once you're playing every model acts individually, but you still make purchases as squads.

Go check the main 40k thread for the codecies. There's a Mega link in the OP that'll take you to them.

>>49996172
Terraclips website is down and, from a quick search, it seems to be discontinued?

If I want to expand up to Combat Patrol is a mechanised infantry platoon for IG worth it?

Seems to fit the whole 'patrol' concept at least.

>>49998535
Probably? Isn't Combat Patrol regular 40k with a low point limit and a slightly relaxed CAD force org chart?

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>>49997127
Yeah, they don't make them anymore, but you can still find kits in some hobby stores.

>>49997032
>>49997078

Thanks anons, good to know. Already own the codex for my armies, I just wasn't sure if there was a way to mix things up. Well damn, gotta rethink my plans for tomorrow

So theoretically if I was a fairly new player with an admech/skittarii army and I got invited to the local shops kill team event tomorrow.... what do I run? Any advice? Purely hypothetical of course.

>>50001953
I'm not entirely sure. Both your troop choices are fairly solid, and the Dragoon walker thing doesn't look too bad as far as I can tell.

Just remember the basics of Kill Team: Boys > Toys.

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>>49960155
Warhammer world made some rules (are attached pdf) its basically like GW killteam but slightly bigger points allowance and slightly more buffed leader as well as +1 Heavy support (but still no 2+ armour or AV14 etc ) and +2 HQ

>>50001953
>>50003904

I love the Ranger aesthetic, but in the heavily-packed terrain of Kill Team boards, Vanguard do much better with a higher fire rate at 18" and a chance to score additional wounds. If a Ranger is getting full use of that 30" fire range, the board isn't packed enough or he's found a spot better suited to a Ranger wielding an Transuranic Arquebus.

Ranger's Precision Fire is nice in 40k, but only useful when targeting squads of mooks with a specifically-geared model in it. And Vanguard really make Melee daunting on your opponent with their -1T in base contact. Combine them with Stalkers and melee is now a death trap. Combine them with Infiltrators and enemy models become half-retarded as soon as they get in melee range.

Dragoon Walker is nice as a melee Walker, but they're also very vulnerable to anti-heavy model weapons your opponent might bring. The Radium Jezzail is a nice sniping gun, but ultimately overshadowed by a Ballistari with LasCannons, even though those are more expensive. Still a nice, powerful gun if you can give it protection or melee weapon against weaker hordes.

Of course, I'm a fan of HoR's list which gives you the options of a mini-Magos leader and some of the lesser Cult Mechanicus models.

>>50001953
>>50003904
>>50004782

Ironstrider Balistarii aren't legal in GW KT (They're Heavy Support), and trying to fit Sicarians of either flavor into KT points is a losing proposition since it gimps your model count.

Vanguard are definitely the best infantry we have. Rad Carbines just fit the Kill Team mechanics a lot better than Galvanic Rifles do. A 10-man squad with two Plasma Calivers (For your specialists that can reroll), an Arc Rifle, and an Arc Pistol/Power Sword Alpha comes in at 200 on the nose for a pretty reasonable all-comers list.

Alternatively, cut some of the extra dudes (And a special weapon) to fit in a Dragoon if you want an immune-to-bolters model. Shooty with the Radium Jezzail is usually better than the melee build.

>>50005754
>>50004782

So basically just flood infantry? Sicarians are a no go?

>>50006556

Sicarians are fine. Infantry flood can eat shit against an enemy with a balanced list and a template or two. Sicarians are nice because of their extra movement and melee power. I'm a fan of Infiltrators, and if you're playing no 2+ saves, then their Power Swords will cut through power armor easily enough. Burst Pistols are also nice if you're facing someone fielding squads, as they can stack a lot of wounds and there's a likelihood some of them will incapacitate.

Was thinking of using the Deathwatch I got in my Death Masque for a Kill team. Is that even possible with their points count?

>>49996113

Then kindly shut the fuck up with your empty, flawed theorizing.

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>>50007711
I was trying to use an example from an actual game we played to show how fun/tactical assault positioning can be, even with random charge distance. Is your monitor running out of ink or something?

R8 my GW Kill Team, 199pts on the spot.

Chapter Tactics [Black Templars]

+ Troops +

Crusader Squad
Initiate [Boltgun]
Initiate [Boltgun]
Initiate [Boltgun] (Infiltrate)
Initiate with [Missile Launcher] (Relentless)
Initiate with [Chainsword, Meltagun] (Eagle Eye)
Sword Brother [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Combi-flamer] (Leader)

Rhino

+ Fast Attack +

Rhino

Missile Launcher dude goes inside the Fast Attack Rhino, the rest goes inside their dedicated transport and infiltrates

>>49958742
Except with grey hunters you can squeese those last 4 points into 2x cc weaons

>>49972170
Squat kickstarter??

>>50009279

You hourly or something?

>>49981420
O.O

I love this!!

>>50009291
Uhhhh... huh? No idea what you mean mate, but coming off a 12 hour shift and staring at a computer before bed can make me a little thick. ;)

>>50006556
>>50006626
If you define a "flood" as 10 dudes, then yes. If you can't position 10 models so that the other guy's templates aren't hitting multiples, you need to re-examine your life.

Sicarian Rustalkers put 6 dudes on the board at 200 points, and at T3, Biker Marines they ain't. Infiltrators only give you 5. That's a force that goes down like wet tissue to any form of shooting.

Simple question. Are Imperial Guard any good as a kill team choice?

>>50010442
Veterans are good I heard. And max model spam is supposed to help you win, but will make games take hours and is a bit boring supposedly. Maybe take a Chimera and some vets for variety and fun

>>50004554
Interesting, but I don't get why there's still a limit on 2+ saves - there's enough plasma, melta and grav these days those don't do much.

I like that it limits the Inv save to avoid deathstars, but won't that fuck over Daemons ?

>>50011023
>nothing stopping a Paradox herald from doubling hit unit/point count every turn
Naw, Daemons would be fine.

>>50007902
You got multiple, key rules interpretations wrong in the course of your "theorizing."

>>50011023
Well, HoR kill team still allows 2+ saves because it's clear that in a fight between 10 conscripts and 1 terminator who will win.

>>50011155
If only the game rules reflected the fact it should be the terminator.