Exalted General /exg/

>>49907158

It's not even really e6, but 7

>>49907158

>so you're admiting the mechanic is bad by removing it

no, you're just an illiterate ass and/or putting words in my mouth. nobody said anything like that. Only that the 3 devil tiger charms are more involved than "oh, I'll just learn these three charms now" I'm not even sure where you got the rest of that


>You don't need to be Essence 6 to learn custom Charms or take Heretical ones.

>A GSP could do this from chargen if they wanted to.

wait...what ARE you talking about? because it isn't what I thought apparently. you may have gotten yourself confused halfway through typing?

>>49909354
or maybe I got confused. were the three charms you're talking about "teach swlihn how to bondage sex"? is that what you were having a problem with? :P

>>49909301
>>49909354
>>49909387

I'm talking about the "GSPs can alter the Yozi by creating a new Charm for that Yozi" mechanic.

You know, the one referenced in the post I first replied to, and the one that I've been talking about this entire time.

Would the Yozi hate Devil-Tigers by default?

>>49909698

Yes.

>>49909698
Yes, and that's a stupid question. Please invest a minimum of effort in thinking before you ask shit like this.

>>49909828
>>49909840

Yeah that was a stupid question. I was focusing more on the fact that Devil-Tigers being able to free them while not being bound to surrender oaths rather than the fact that they're created by casting off their chains.

>>49910009

Devil-Tigers aren't any more able to free the Yozi than anyone else.

Are there any active exalted MUSHs?

>>49909425
that was a joke, it's not really how it works. you can't really make any charms that would /alter/ them while staying in their tree. anything that could meaningfully change them would end up having to be heretical because it'd reach outside of what they are.

so what 3 charms then? I still don't know where you got that number

>>49910650
>you can't really make any charms that would /alter/ them while staying in their tree. anything that could meaningfully change them would end up having to be heretical because it'd reach outside of what they are.

Except, again, that's clearly not the intent behind the mechanic, so you're altering it (removing it) because you acknowledge it's a bad idea.

>so what 3 charms then? I still don't know where you got that number

It was a facetious example; there's no number of Charms that would make it acceptable to alter the Yozi just by dint of learning them.

>>49910845
Wasn't "change the Yozis by making charms" Bad fanon though? I mean, I';m pretty sure some devs outright said that you couldn't actually do that.

I mean-the charms still have to fit the themes of the Yozi, so you can't make a charm or charms that radically changes a given Yozi's personality because any such charms would by definition be against the themes of the Yozi in question-you can't calm down Malfeas because his rage is part of who he is, and likewise you can't make ED less of an antagonistic assholic douche-bag because being that much of a bastard is literally the only definition he has.

Adding charms adds to their ability to do things(for those few that even translate well from a humanoid to a yozi in the first place) but it doesn't change what those things are or how and why they do it.

The only change I can see being made is "Yozi slowly evolves into better(as in better at being itself, not like as a "better" person) version of said Yozi."

The Yozi are their charms. The Yozi are also their demon souls. The Yozi are also alien individuals.

The problem is that you ignored the last two and interpreted the first as: "The Yozi are computer programs, the charms are lines of code, and by making unique charms I can hack into the Ebon Dragon matrix and change his personality."

It's something of a strange read on things. it's like you're getting youself all worked up over the idea of some solar sticking archery charms into bureaucracy so he doesn't have to pay out of caste xp

has there been a fan write up of warstriders or power armor in 3rd yet?

Who do you think would win the Realm Civil War? My money's on Mnemon.

>>49911604

The Sidereals.

>>49911604
I think the Civil War would be averted/ended by someone taking the Imperial Manse. I've always wanted to try and brave it to install the Roseblack on the throne. Maybe some day I'll play that game.

Yo, yo, Sandact6.
Would you advise that mission-thingy you do in your quest for a solo campaign?

what are some escalating sorcery sacrifices you've had characters make?

>>49911734
I want to marry the Roseblack and rule the Blessed Isle together.

>>49912475
I've already forsaken my House and my shadow. I'll probably give up my name when I hit Solar Circle.

Anyone has the snip on how heroic every exalted is? The ones with the "But no even the fat dragon blooded will kick your ass if he wants to be."

>>49910029

i recall exactly one and the guy who ran it is the type who changed names every month because he was scared that his previous failings of games with others would catch up and ruin his mush

and then he canned the whole thing because of personal issues or something. i wouldn't know, i was new to exalted and he encouraged me to join wherein i embarrassed myself one session in and called it a day

I have a weird question.

I posted twice in /exg and said I'm going through 1st edition books. And every time someoneu will say to not waste my time and to play 3rd edition.

And I wonder why. There is only a corerulebook for 3rd ed. 1st edition and 2nd edition have around 30+ books each. And when it comes to setting material it is clear that previous editions have more of it.

so is 1st edition really bad? I'm new to the game and while you veterans know the setting because of previous experiences I don't. And that is why I started with 1st edition. Also I hear horror stories for 2nd ed dice pool problem.

>>49912637
>Having feelings for terrestrials
Let me guess, you have compassion 5 don't you, you tremendous fag?

>>49913765

You know how 2E combat was just two invincible Ken dolls bashing against each other until one of them ran out of invincibility pills and died?

1E is almost exactly like that, but because all the Charms involved are scene-long, you're waiting entirely on the random chance that someone will flub a soak and defense roll on the same turn. 1E was a perfect example of why making Resistance as good of a defense as DV is a horrible idea.

Sure, read 1E for setting material, but play it in 3E.

>>49913830
So you're saying resistance is not as good as melee/dodge in 3E for defense? From the previous resistance threads i was under the impression that resistance was a good primary defense.

>>49914068

It's not "as good" in that you won't be able to sit around with a DV of 1 or 2 and invest purely in Resistance and do okay, in the same way that you can invest in Dodge, wear light armor, and do more or less okay.

Resistance serves the purpose of making the fight take longer, slowing down the pace of it, rather than stopping attacks cold like DV does.

>>49914068
>>49914089
It's a GREAT primary defense, if you invest in it. I mean you also need a half decent DV ideally, but you cans pend charm choices into Resistance and become insanely difficult to kill. It also counters some of the "lol Exalted still unbalanced" combos people tout around here better than having a high DV.

Actually, the "stealth man kills you on turn one" combo loses harder to Adamant Skin than it does to Seven Shadow since if you hit and your damage gets soaked down to 3 dice you will lose more init than if you are forced to miss.

>>49914716
Will double down on this especially because you'll likely have a pretty high Parry anyway if you're a combat character. Having 4-5s in Dex/Combat Ability plus an Artifact Medium weapon can have you sitting pretty at 5-7 Parry, 0 Charms required and that just makes your efficiency go up even higher.

Please tell me about leaving a fight in 3e, other than by bullshit "the villain teleports away" fiat. I would like to have some recurring antagonists that can actually recur rather than get beaten to death/cause TPK in their first fight with the circle, and the default methods of living to fight another day seem utterly impractical.

Withdraw's -10 init makes it look like a death sentence rather than a setback if you fail, and I think I must be missing something to see how it can possibly succeed when it only moves you one range band per round and everyone else can just move one range band after you on their turn, never letting you get to extreme range. (Hordes of meatshields?)

Go To Ground is repeated rolls, opposed by multiple enemies, at increasing penalties, which is pretty much everything that ever sucked about D&D's hide and move silently checks: for it to work effectively you almost have to be good enough that your 1 beats the opponent's 20, at which point why are you even fucking rolling rather than just handwaving a vanish.

>>49915078
>Withdraw's -10 init makes it look like a death sentence rather than a setback if you fail, and I think I must be missing something to see how it can possibly succeed when it only moves you one range band per round and everyone else can just move one range band after you on their turn, never letting you get to extreme range.

Because you move an additional range band back every time you accrue 10 successes on the running away roll.

>>49914716

I feel Resistance is really really good, but only shines at later essences. Supernal helps, but a lot of stuff is still "At ESS X or higher."

>>49915331
Supernal gives you the benefits of those effects.

Really all Supernal doesn't do is treat your Essence as 5 for the "add (Essence) dice/sux/what-have-you".

>>49913830
As someone who is really enjoying his game of 2e, Paranoia Combat is honestly the worst thing to happen to the community. Not the game: the game's alright. But to the community. Because now everyone subscribes to the school of "Paranoia Combat or GTFO" which admittedly ruins 2e combat.

But if you have a party that doesn't subscribe to the concept of Paranoia Combat - who is willing to deliberately create characters who aren't minmaxed

>>49915850
>But if you have a party that doesn't subscribe to the concept of Paranoia Combat - who is willing to deliberately create characters who aren't minmaxed

You all end up as splatters on the wall unless the ST is good enough at the game to notice when a Charm is about to fucking end your party, no save, and reinvent a new Charm to put in its place, like half the Abyssal Melee suite, or even generic Spirit Charms like Essence Bite or Element Control, or, y'know, a grand goremaul of any stripe.

"I wanna give my dude a huge hammer!" is not exactly minmaxing.

>>49915897
Note: I never said that we didn't have some manner of Perfect Defenses. I merely said that we don't abuse them. Yeah, if someone uses an Excellency to smash a Grand Goremaul into your face, you're gonna damn well use Ablation of Brass and Fire. But so far that hasn't been necessary.

>>49915921

"I could spend 5 motes on an Excellency... or I could spend 4 motes to automatically deflect the attack, no fears," is not really abuse, it's possessing basic math skills.

Paranoia combat was not invented, it didn't "happen," it was observed.

>>49915927
Someone clearly hasn't read the Errata. Minimum cost for a PD is 8m now.

>TFW my Abyssal player took a liking to Walker In Darkness (not her own Deathlord) and is facing a love triangle arc with the Green Lady

What are the chances she finds out about the Green Lady's deal?

Reposting my question on this thread:

I have a big problem.

On the one hand I have players that love playing Exalted (not many, and no ST beside forever me, but at least they are consistent and invested).
On the other, I fucking love Chronicles of Darkness 2E (especially Mage), with its genius way of handling XP, having Aspirations per player character, and utilizing Conditions to non-lethally inflict harm/change on player characters in exchange for XP.

A) Is there an existing houserule system how to include Aspirations, Conditions, and XP generation into Exalted 3E?
B) If not, how would one do that? What is important for houseruling that when trying to keep the spirit of the Exalted game alive?

I am most interested in your ideas fellow fa/tg/uys.


Current ideas:
a) Aspirations count as a special kind of Intimacy (besides Ties and Principles) and give XP as in CofD
b) Conditions follow the same rules as in CofD and are given by the ST ad-hoc
c) flat XP system, rescaled
d) XP from willing dramatic failures, solved aspirations, resolved Conditions

not complete of course. What do you guys think?

I want to get a growth item ie weapon/armor (similar to the teigu in Akame ga Kill), which book should I read?

>>49911318

I made a set of knockoff Air Dragon armor on my twilight, treating the various subsystems as evocations.

what situations might roll linguistics as an ability?

each dot grants fluency in one specific language, but does the overall number of dots mater for anything?

because if not then why is it even tracked like an ability? and if so then it seems like rolling linguistics for something like poetry doesn't make sense by my apparently flawed understanding of what it is?

>>49918162

>what situations might roll linguistics as an ability?

Love letters, poems, printed propaganda, forms, any words written on paper can be used for linguistics.

>each dot grants fluency in one specific language

That was 2e, in Ex3 languages are merits.

>does the overall number of dots mater for anything?

Same as presence, performance, socialise or any other social ability. More dots mean more charms and better general mastery.

>
because if not then why is it even tracked like an ability? and if so then it seems like rolling linguistics for something like poetry doesn't make sense by my apparently flawed understanding of what it is?

How do you communicate over long distances in a pre-electric era without sorcery? How do you make formal requests for things? How do record events in history?

>>49918162
There are a few things: some other examples include trying to talk to someone who speaks another language, or translating a coded missive.

Also, any form of written social influence

>>49918162
if you are talking about 3E, you are mistaken and confusing the merit with the ability. The ability is used to deal with all terms of human language, including understanding -e.g.- hidden messages.
Remember in school when the teacher asked what the author wanted to express? That's linguistics

>>49913765
The devs of 3e hyped up their release and papered over their general/apparent incompetencies and being a year late by relentlessly shitting on past editions.
The community who frequented the same boards the devs do got swept up in it.

It's like earthScorpion and his autist bootlickers on Sufficent Velocity, which makes sense because hes basically the same sort of person

>>49918250
>earthScorpion
Who and what's wrong with him?

>>49918314
I'm personallly partial to him because the first time I ever heard of Exalted was in one of his fanfics, but he's a massive Infernal fanboy from what I've been told.

>>49916010
Unless your player's high Essence or the Green Lady wants her to find out, low.

>>49918403
>but he's a massive Infernal fanboy from what I've been told
Nothing's wrong with GSP as long as you ignore that retard writing, in fact the whole "If Solar becomes the best seaman/sailor then Infernal becomes the sea itself" is pretty cool. They're also likely the ones who can actually fix things up beside redeemed Abyssal.

>>49918648
Oh, I agree completely. But there's a difference between "Infernals are pretty neat because they have the potential to actually fix shit" and "Infernals are the best Exalted every other type of Exalted is shit"

>>49918314
EarthScorpion is one of the best fanwriters for various supplement mechanics. He's also got something indefinably weird about him and his relation to Infernals.

>>49918742
Must be a TFfag since half of the Yozi charms is permanent effect

>>49910896
Neph said you could create Charms that would alter or push the Yozi in various directions, but you couldn't change them.

I remember talking with him about the possibility of developing Ghost-prayer and Shadowland-themed charms for Cecelyne, pushing her closer to the Underworld. Neph said that was fair game and Cecelyne would be metaphysically shitting herself the entire time, as her nature slowly began to get "infected" and twisted by Underworld concepts that she would rather steer clear from.

In fact, developing Charms for the Yozi that they might find horrifying or frightening was even called out as something like a bargaining chip the Infernals could potentially use if when they eventually found themselves at odds with the Yozi.

>>49911604
The problem for Mnemon is that she's in the best position to win, and the one thing all of the other Houses agree on is that anybody besides Mnemon would be preferable to sitting on the Throne.

If she ever lets an instance of real weakness appear, the rest of the Houses would join together and crush her. I find that if she can't take control of the Realm before large scale civil war breaks out, she's becomes increasingly likely to lose.

Ultimately I think the group with the best chance for winning would be an alliance between either Sesus and Peleps or Cathak and Peleps as the winner. Cathak and Sesus are the two strongest military houses - once open warfare begins and the knives are drawn, Ledaal's knowledge, Cynis' blackmail and Ragara's money won't be nearly as useful.

While Pelep's navy is of limited use in the Realm proper, it would be amazing for preventing many Houses from gaining access to their Threshold assets, tribute, etc. Honestly I think that, while House Pelep's can't win the civil war on its own, whomever it decides to ally with is the House that will win the Civil War.

>>49918742
>EarthScorpion is one of the best fanwriters

He is a fucking moron and the cult of personality he has going around him is honestly disgusting.

Anyone know a sane interpretation/fix for the weird "workshop" stuff that was crammed into Oadenol's Codex? The one where Solars with Craftsman Needs No Tools were stealth-errataed to need tools?

Specifically, I am running an Infernals game and one of players needs to know if Tool-Transcending Constructs is any good to repurchase, or will even have repurchases.

>>49913765
Exalted's problem was always with the mechanics.

In First Edition, you would have huge defensive pools that were almost impossible to pierce and when you managed to, soak would make your damage do almost no damage.

This led to combats that would take hours of players going, "I miss. I miss. I miss. I hit for... no damage. I miss. I miss. I miss. I hit for... 1 damage! Sweet, just 16 more to go!"

Second edition had cheap, easily accessible perfect defenses. Combat came down to running the other guy out of Essence.

"I attack."
"I perfectly defend and now I attack."
"I perfectly defend and now I attack."
Repeat this 20 times until one player says.
"I perfectly defend and now I attack."
"I am out of Essence so I can't defend. I die."

3rd edition has a much better base combat engine and was written with a much better basic understanding of how the system interacts with itself than the two older editions did.

First and Second edition have great fluff books - the direction books, the setting books, etc. The mechanics are not good. You -can- use them if you want, many people do. Just be aware that there are issues with them.

>>49918742
>EarthScorpion

I am so glad he went off on Holden and Morke enough times that when they started writing 3rd edition they weren't interested in tapping him for help.

>>49920171
And yet he writes pretty good stuff. He's much like Holden and Morke in this regard. He's much like Holden and Morke in a lo of ways, in fact, which also answers the question about what's wrong with him.

>>49920082

'Rules as physics' is one of the many concepts that 2e took to its logical extreme and you get stuff like Neph speculating how you can reprogram the Yozis like a malfunctioning computer by making new charms.

Its a far cry from Games of Divinity

>>49920271
His technical writing skills are fine, he knows how to construct an essay. I don't like his content or spin on the setting though.

>>49920336
Not liking something and something being bad are different things. I don't really like his take on the setting either, but I don't see anything actually wrong with it. It's just not my cup of tea.

>>49920082
>>49909387
Hey, malfeas! I made a new charm, you now have a massive throbbing penis constantly ejaculating green fire from your forehead! ! isn't this so cool!! :D


Getting these overgrown akuma to make charms for us was a mistake. A TERRIBLE mistake. Tell me again why we picked the losers to empower?

Hows that reverse engineered jade prison coming?

>>49921317
yeah, but if you tell him you don't like it or if you like something else you get one of those autistic "bad wrong fun" rants exalted fans seem to be so prone to generate, embedded in a thick layer of .keres game wankery over how awesome his fluff is.

for example he's one of these types of exalted fans(look at Touch_of_Sepia, it's not him but it's what talking to him is like) https://www.reddit.com/r/exalted/comments/2ba65w/advice_on_lunar_building/

>>49922981
That was... awful why are people like this, we're they not hit enough as children?

>>49922981

Luna's Grace he just goes on and on, doesn't he? He never shuts up and he doesn't see how much of a prick he's being, does he? He must be on the forum as well, mustn't he? Is he Sunder the Gold or whatever he calls himself?

>>49923947
Looks like a pretty similar writing style and voice, plus the complete lack of awareness, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Sepia was Sunder.

>>49924166

Remind me; one of the devs want on a massive rant on one the forumites in a private chat with other devs. Was that rant about Sunder?

>>49914716
Gonna second this and add that Resistance charms which add Hardness after an attack hits are amazing, because the attack -still hits-, and thus resets to base initiative, but does no damage at all. Shit like that makes Resistance a VERY good defense that can make a heavily-invested user damn near invincible unless he's in Crash or low on motes.

do associations of a caste have any mechanical importance? or are they just fluff like the titles?
trying to figure what they mean

Can you use gambits like Disarm and what not against battle groups? I'm sure you can't but the rules don't seem to specify that.

>>49925328
No, no mechanical importance, they're just good resonance to draw on.

>>49925360
You can use whatever gambits make sense, so "with a proper stunt or relevant Charm."

Best mutation for By Rage Recast and Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai?

>>49925402
thanks

>>49925595
I like huge, wings, snake body.
i donno, what do you do with it? it likely changes if you're going with melee or martial arts or archery or spells or favoring mobility or...

you can redo it from scratch every time you increase essence, so how many points are you working with?

>>49925864
Currently Essence 3 so 30 point, basically when By Rage Recast actives I want to be a bit faster and stronger, when going Shintai I want to be kaiju-esque, doesn't have to be Godzilla size but at least super sentai mech size, thinking about 6 arms for flurry and great hooves for trample.

>>49925595
>By Rage Recast
when you can keep mutations going full time from it you can put up the extra essence mutation and just have a nice bigger essence pool for when fights start. just have to empty it first but thats no problem.

>>49925934
some st might not let you do that, it's from scroll of heroes right? people are touchy about those mutations for some reason

>>49926029
>for some reason
>hey here's a bunch of mutations that are very powerful and also very boring biggernumbers

>>49925934
Just check the Scroll of Heroes for the extra essence pool you mentioned but fuck that's so bullshit
>Essence Abundance (Pox level) +3 motes
>Essence Abundance (Affliction level) +6 motes
>Essence Abundance (Blight level) +12 motes
>Essence Abundance (Abomination level) +16 motes
So I gain 37 free motes and still have 17 mutation points to spend

>>49926808
That isn't how tiered mutation work.

>>49926892
How do I fix it?

>>49926916
pick one unless the mutation(or your st) says it stacks

also rage recast only lets you manifest 8 at a time anyway

>>49927019
That one is for Devil Tyrant shintai
>The warlock simultaneously manifests all (Essence x 10) points of mutations provided by this Charm’s prerequisite. Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai explicitly ignores the normal restrictions on the number of positive mutations a Desecration effect may provide and does not count toward the mutation limit of other such effects. If By Rage Recast supplies mutations that are mutually exclusive to one another, he chooses which to manifest and which to keep inert within him. Mutual exclusivity is the only basis for a mutation not manifesting.
Oh okay so get the +16 motes one and spend the rest for something else, can I stack Gargantuan and Multiple Limbs?

>>49925595

Stack Gargantuan

Become huge with huge muscles. Get brutal attack and enjoy the +16 to hit constantly at Essence 4

>>49927091

If your ST actually lets you take Brutal Attack, you may as well just take pre-errata Zeal, because it's clear that he's asleep at the wheel.

Are there good STing guides out there? Generic ones too I suppose but Exalted in particular. I remember reading a really good one a couple weeks back but it's not in the homebrew dump in the op or anywhere else I can find.

>>49926916
Ban Scroll of Heroes.

>>49922981
This guy is good inspiration for a Fae. Obsessed with 'storytelling' despite being terrible at it and infuriating to listen to.

Any easy program to make charm tree? I tried MS Paint and it's terrible.

Alright, what are good books and resources to read up on Yozi, Malfeas and GSP in general? Besides their own book, obviously.

>>49912637
>Not stealing the SE from the Ebon Dragon on the day of their wedding, cutting her ring finger off and cucking the yozi then setting her up as your puppet and ruling the Realm

>>49913765
1-2e has mechanical problems.
Despite what the defence force says 3 does too.
Ultimately it comes down to taste which pile of shit you wish to enjoy.

>>49930568
Those aren't mutually exclusive.

>>49930560
Kill Six Billion Demons web comic gives you the culture of Malfeas
Joker in the Dark Knight is obviously a Scourge
Wikus in District 9 is an example of Infernal learning more permanent charms
The disasters of gourmet world in Toriko are similar to the ones in Malfeas

>>49928318

>I remember reading a really good one a couple weeks back

Really? I thought I wrote a pile of shit.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sG52v0QCij7-vI0Y3Mb2s2gusu8dfkzdUOLkmMshw3Q/edit

>>49930597
...Wow you really are my superior in the exalted ways of lewds.

>>49930404
any tree or flowchart making tool is better than paint.

>>49930575
>Despite what the defence force says 3 does too.
Yes, anon, this is something no one, except maybe for Holden and Morke, denies. 3E's mechanical problems just aren't actually bad enough to make it a bad game. It's good, but not perfect. Only the latter half of that sentence applies to the previous editions.

>>49911318
I made a kind of alpha of warstriders. I wouldn't exactly call it done, but there should be enough to draw one up. I'll post the PDF when i'm home if people are interested.

>>49932427
for example https://www.draw.io/

>>49932512
Can I go Gundam with it?

>>49932547
I never watched much gundam. But I suppose there's no reason you can't. I tossed ideas back and forth with others and they did in fact conclude one of my generic evocations was kind of like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxnC6jkJyEM

how to gain graces exalted eclipse?

File: the biggest.jpg (248KB, 1000x749px) Image search: [Google]

248KB, 1000x749px

Question.

How do I get to be a big guy?

>>49933129
Be a Lunar.
Hunt something big.
Take Hybrid Body Rearrangement.
Manifest size mutation(s) of your choice.

>>49933129
Stack gargantuan until you're out of Essence and BP

>>49933018
I feel like you meant to type that into google.

But really, just have a Raksha forge them for you, preferably with some kind of oath or something to give them to you afterwards.

what happens if a 2e eclipse gets "sharing the gifts of luna"?

>>49933764
The ST smacks you for doing silly things with the eclipse power. Charmshare is full of broken and silly and should be taken with judicious amounts of care.

>>49933861
It's fine if you take charms for fluff reasons. I played an Eclipse once and only used Charmshare to get things like actively-suboptimal Sidereal Bureaucracy Charms, because Solar Bureaucracy wasn't good at forcing lazy gods to do their fucking jobs or suffer the consequences, and dedication to duty was a thing my Solar cared strongly about.

He did not like gods.

Had a surprising amount of respect for demons, though. They might be weird, but they at least understand the concept of a work ethic.

When you start using it to grab things like the Charms specifically included to make spirits able to be a legitimate threat to Exalts, ON TOP of the things you already get as a Solar, then there are problems.

File: Warstrider rules V0.1 Kinda Released.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>49911318
>>49932547
Here it is. Tell me it's good, tell me it's shit. Tell me how you think it could be improved.

>>49934026
Looks decent at first glance atleast. I'm a little dubious about DDV penalty along with being unblockable though; are warstriders really that fast? Would normally expect big-ass weapons to be easier to dodge (and to encourage jumping out of the way of a swing that gets telegraphed 10 yards away)

>>49936064
The way I looked at it was less the telecasting and more that when against a colossus it's literally just too big for most people to get out of the way fast enough.

>>49934026
>>49936262
Did I overlook it, or can two Warstriders not block each-other's attacks because their weapons are so big and heavy? IMHO the unblockable/undodgeable thing should be either tied to Strength directly or to size. I'd certainly expect a monster with legendary size to be able to parry a warstrider's weapon, too.

>>49936299
Hmm, I should definitely clarify that. The idea was that the undodgeable/blockable tags were for things of human size. Things with the legendary size merit should likely be able to guard normally as well as other striders. Though I wonder if a small warstrider against a colossus strider shouldn't still suffer a minor penalty.

>>49936348
I would handle everything via strength. People with less than X strength can't block, people with strength less than Y but more than X take a penalty.

>>49936387
That could also work.

looking at 2e errata, what is up with wyld shaping? why did the solars get a buff to an already brokenly overpowered ability?

>>49938344
It's not a buff, it's an overall balancing. You'll notice the errata removed the "make ten thousand people out of nothing" power.

What scale of power is a being made by a solar ambition 3 working?

>>49938445
Re-write the laws of nature/physics -tier

>>49938629
So like 3rd circle demon tier?

>>49938941
No that's Solar 2.

Solar 3 is "gravity goes up now" or "Nobody who says my name three times when they wake will ever die"

>>49938960
Uh, no. Solar 3 is "Make subtle alterations to the metaphysics of the entire cosmos". The "subtle" part is important. You can do something like Salinian Working and decree that from now on every living mortal can learn Sorcery and that Sorcerous knowledge cannot be truly destroyed. But reversing gravity in the whole Creation isn't subtle and it's way out of scope of even Solar Workings.

>>49938960
>Solarfag detected
k y s

So, if a slave of the Realm suddenly Exalts as a Dragon-blood, what happens? If they're young enough, are they allowed to be adopted by a House same as any other Lost Egg?

The Broken Winged Crane doesn't seem to lay any foundation for a GSP creating a new Heretical charm that has no prerequisites, but nor does it say that this cannot be done. Have any of the devs confirmed or denied this possibility? Because that seems like the way to go. To clarify, I'm not saying it'd be reasonable to make an infernal with 10 Heretical charms at chargen. I'm not even saying it'd reasonable to start with one, just that after my character starts accruing XP I'd never spend it on Yozi charms.

>>49942120
>just that after my character starts accruing XP I'd never spend it on Yozi charms.

I'd wager that that's the exact reason to not allow it.

>>49942104
They're probably treated as a Lost Egg, yeah.

>>49942120

>Charms with this Keyword originate in
the Charm trees of multiple Yozis.

Page 44. The only way it could reside in a tree of multiple Yozi is by having some form of prerequisite. Heretical charms were woefully underutilized, so it'll never be errataed.

>after my character starts accruing XP I'd never spend it on Yozi charms.

Therein lies the greatest flaw of Heretical charms. Every single Infernal game makes a beeline to the Devil-Tiger with no regard to anything else. Not other charms, not character development, not anything.

You can't really slip a leash if there's no leash to slip. Good luck, though.

>>49942242
>Charms with this Keyword originate in the Charm trees of multiple Yozis.
And there's the catch that I forgot about after the past few years. Fuck.

>Every single Infernal game makes a beeline to the Devil-Tiger with no regard to anything else.
This possibility is literally the first thing that occurred to me when I read The Broken Winged Crane and I also immediately figured out that this was a trap and a surefire route to sidelining your own character for the entire goddamn campaign. I understand that the tendency when dealing with other people on the internet is to assume that they're bottom-barrel-retarded, but come on. If all you did was focus on hitting Devil-Tiger you wouldn't be very mechanically powerful and you wouldn't have many tools to use just for fun either. It would take a year of playing weekly to hit the Essence fucking 6 requirement for that charm. Seriously, fuck that mindset and every time I hear people discuss on a general I want to punch a wall.

I've never even gotten to play Exalted.

>>49942120
>I'd never spend on yozi charms
why not? the hereticals aren't favored, they're not better than regular yozi charms, and you can easily make new charms in an existing yozi tree anyway(just stay in theme).

besides, almost certain you can't make one with zero prereqs, they're described as drawing on multiple yozi so I'd expect them to have prereqs in at least two trees

>>49942364
unlike those emo fucks abysals turning shiny?

>>49942364

>I've never even gotten to play Exalted.

Ha, join the club. I don't know how many years it's been, maybe five. I've just spent this time pouring over the books, building scenarios in my head, giving advice, and shitposting. Mostly just shitposting, though.

DTs also require an insane amount of homebrew in order to make work. What's wrong with staying as a loyalist and fucking Creation up anyways?

>>49942372
1) Because three out of four infernal concepts that float about in my head and never leave, like farts in the international space station, involve the characters wanting so badly to not be like the Yozi that they even refuse to use their magic if they have the option.
2) Because I want charms like Witness to Darkness and Selfishness Is Power, charms that hamstring my character one way and improve him in another, but I don't want those specific charms. Those charms are so COOL, and UTTERLY prevent the character from working well with a group.

>>49942521

>involve the characters wanting so badly to not be like the Yozi that they even refuse to use their magic if they have the option.

What happened to them between deliberately choosing unfathomable hellish power and now that they changed their minds on where they sit with the Yozi?

>>49924166
>Sunder the Gold

Oh god that dumb fucker Thunder Wolf or whatever the fuck he was calling himself before Sunder the God is still around? Seriously?

Is he still screaming about all the insults thrown at his Lunar waifus?

>>49942364
>It would take a year of playing weekly to hit the Essence fucking 6 requirement for that charm. Seriously, fuck that mindset and every time I hear people discuss on a general I want to punch a wall.
Have any of you EVER been in a game that started at Essence 2 and actually got to Essence 6+, then kept playing?

I sure as hell haven't.

Devil-Tiger stuff is pretty much purely theoretical, in my experience

>>49942595

He's still active on the forums, but without a lot of books in Ex3 you don't hear that much from him. Enjoy it now while you can, it'll only last until Lunars is announced.

>>49942662

Christ I have never been so happy about the delays.

>>49942437
The original torturous quest that had to culminate in the truly selfless sacrifice of your character's life made sense to me. Everything else is stupid and I lack the energy to throw enough creativity at this response to express just how stupid it is.

>>49942587
I'm not saying these hypothetical characters would become unhappy that they're working for the Yozi or look down on them. It's that once they gain enough understanding about how much their patrons really suffer they would recoil in horror at the notion of becoming like them. They'd regard them sort of like how you'd regard a parent you truly idolized, and who fell victim to massive dementia or torture-induced psychosis. That's what the Yozi basically are, and one of the four concepts revolves entirely around a desire to rehabilitate these poor bastards.

>>49942779

The problem seems to be that you've planned out the entirety of your character arc, beginning to end, without any thought about how other players or their actions might affect your character. How would they even gain understanding of their patrons suffering? The Yoi suffer because they're imprisoned in Hell, the Infernals aren't. Set the Yozi free and all is well, right? That psychosis is just part of their nature.

What you ought to do is peel back the character development to the point where they're barely nascent Exalts, and find a game to insert the into. See where the story and the rest of the PCs take you.

>>49942869
The problem seems to be that you've planned out the entirety of your character arc
This is precisely the case because the character concepts have existed in my head for years without actually being used. They're calcified.

>find a game to insert the into.
If there was a game to insert myself into around here that would be relevant advice. I don't do RPGs online. Also, I want what I want. I'm not even sure what relevance what you're saying has in regards to what I said. If I were ever to join an Exalted game with Infernals I'd want to make one of these character concepts, and it would be nice if I could make charms that complimented those concepts. I'm not saying that I expect this to actually happen, dude. It's a fantasy I can't fulfill unless I move to a major metropolitan area and that isn't on the horizon for me.

>How would they even gain understanding of their patrons suffering?
What would actually stop them from gaining that understanding? What is preventing it? The Yozis' second and third circle souls do a rather good job of expressing their cognitive dissonance and meeting some of them is literally guaranteed for a GSP. Gerevesin had an instant to experience love and then murdered it himself; he wishes he could undo it. Orabilis's wisdom soul disobeyed him and he's pissed about it. Theion's whole thing was being the greatest and he was mutilated by some jumped up demigods. The psychological analysis required to understand these beings isn't even complex if you start by building an understanding of the lesser circles and work your way up. Anyone with Occult 4, to understand how the soul hierarchy works, and medicine or socialize 3, to understand psychological/social dynamics, would pick this shit up with ease.

>>49942651
this.


the wankery over deviltigers "removing the entire game: is ridiculous.

>>49942442
don't worry, your idea of exalted is better than actually playing it would be anyway ;)

this way you won't get all bitter like everyone else

What happens in the three hundred years from the Scarlet Empress disappearing onwards? I've never really found a comprehensive timeline.

I don't need anything super specific, but some idea of what might be in splats I've not read would be helpful.

>>49943504

That's kind of the whole point of starting the game where it does: NOBODY knows what's going to happen in the next 20 years, let alone the next 300.

There's a dozen different major conflicts that could all crack one way or the other, Solars running around being Solars, etc.

>>49943607
I mean, what are the threats facing creation? I know we got a civil war brewing over the Blessed Isle, and there's mutterings of Alchemical crusades.

Then there's the Fae invasion of the South, and the Bull of the North's circle.

But what other creation-spanning plot hooks exist?

>>49943733
The emergence of the Abyssals and consequent increase in Deathlord activity.

A million and one people fucking around with relics and sorcerous power that they can't comprehend.

Fae incursions in general.

The machinations of Demons.

>>49943733
>>49943859

Yu-Shan's corruption and the gods slacking off to the point of ludicrousness, placing the fabric of reality at stake unless people start doing their damn jobs

>>49942779
>The original torturous quest that had to culminate in the truly selfless sacrifice of your character's life made sense to me. Everything else is stupid and I lack the energy to throw enough creativity at this response to express just how stupid it is.
The original version of redemption was not a torturous quest but an extremely involved ritual involving a Solar Circle Sorcerer a Zenith, and the direct grace and compassion of the Unconquered Sun

The hardest part was learning that such a thing was even possible.

>>49945447
Was this from 1e?

>>49945568
>Was this from 1e?
Yes. Exalted: the Abyssals.

>>49942651

>Have any of you EVER been in a game that started at Essence 2 and actually got to Essence 6+, then kept playing?

Twice.

>>49942364
To be fair becoming a Primordial without the fetich soul is quite a honey pot, it opens the route to design your own ayyy world-walking titan but better than the already existed ones.
For example when the GSP goes DT they can build an inner world, gives birth to their own 3rd circle Deva which have 2nd Circle by themselves, the thought of playing god to the creatures you create is charming, you can make your own armies, have them harvest the material in your flesh, worship you like a god-titan you are and overall do whatever you want with them, and your inner world will have none of those disasters like Malfea, and perhaps you can guide your 3rd Circle to create their own not -Dragon-blooded Exalted to lead your subjects. Maybe one day when you're tired of the world you will go back to your inner one and spend time chilling out with those big boobs succubus you create, or debating and playing with 3rd Circle Deva.
Just the thought of getting things like that is so cool that people forget other routes.

>>49915078

There's a spell in earlier additions called Flight of the Raptor that allows you to turn into a bunch of birds and fly off in different directions. That's one way for a Sorcerer.

>>49942651
>Have any of you EVER been in a game that started at Essence 2 and actually got to Essence 6+, then kept playing?
multiple times. currently in one and going devil tiger.

>>49943733
>But what other creation-spanning plot hooks exist?
Here is my autism emo edgy campaign for casuals:
>There are two groups of GSP
>The first one led by Judas (who has discovered the Heretic Charms and method to become Titan 2.0) wants to become Neo Primordial to understand and to cures the Yozi by killing their Fetich soul then make a new big system to recycle the Neverborn back into Primordial
>The second group led by iconic GSP is Reclamation loyalists who just does whatever Yozi told them to, totally disagrees with the first group and plans to kill them
>5 GSP from 1st group goes full DT while 5 GSP from 2nd group goes not-Yozi clones. All of them are waiting for the big clash
>Meanwhile the Fair Folk are preparing other crusade to finally bring Creation back to pure Wyld
>Deathlords and Deathknights almost complete their own fleets of doom plague
>The Lunar has made an alliance with the Solar and gearing up for war against the DB
>Realm Civil War will happen a few more weeks in the future
>Carjack Ketchup predicts shit gonna hit the fan and plan to interfere
>Locust Crusader
>Back in Zen-mu some rogue Primordials who come after Theion left the place finally bored of the never ever changing world and have their eyes on Creation
>Gaia finally reaches the Shining Answer and becomes Upgraded Primordial who somehow can understand the persertive from mortals. She's rushing back to Creation to help her brothers and sisters
>MAD

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First time doing a charm flowchart, charms are from the book of ten thousand scorpions

>>49948364

It's a good start. Could you try adding Essence and Ability minimums? I know that Infernals don't have the latter, but if you're doing other Exalts, it's important.

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>>49948402
Like this? Though I haven't found out a suitable shape.

>>49948523

Like that, yeah. You could probably shoten it to Ess.2 and come up with shorthand for other abilities as well.

>>49942869
i donno, that sounds more like the general sketch the book suggests you have of what you want to be before you start filling in the sheet. just cause he has a rough idea of where it's going doesn't mean...all that stuff you said ;)

or do you just roll up a solar intending to play an utterly directionless drifter?


but yeah, don't *start* at that point, you have to reach it organically. theres no way you'd need to be taking only heretical charms from xp1, that'd be a bit silly. luckily the yozi trees are "far larger than what is printed in this book" even before you start adding charms your character made.
(another option is starting a bit late and inheriting from a deviltiger ho didn't make it all the way, or convincing another of the yozi to open their trees. or using szonery and isadoros who're already in but never got official charms)
>>49946155
and at that point how long had you been playing for?

>>49948402
without making the bubbles big enough to contain a summary of what they do you'd have to look them up anyway. the shape of the tree is the important bit, as long as hes got that it's a great chart in my book

Someone explain to me just how By Rage Recast is supposed to be balanced, because it seems like a weird outlier in the otherwise mostly good Ink Monkeys material.

Charm costs 8xp, gives you 16xp worth of mutations. Seems off already, BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! What if you could have a library of 80xp worth of mutations and pick which 16xp to manifest every time your anima went up!

Is it just that mutations are all fucking overpriced?

How do Abyssals and Raksha generally interact? I had one appear as part of a story in my Abyssals game where they fed Nexus to the Wyld FaFL style. I had the Raksha show up during their fight with the Solars trying to stop them and attack the Abyssals for trying to steal their ultimate showdown with the heroes and attempt to "prune the boring extras". The party loved them so much they they're practically begging for them to recur, but how would FF recur in a way that isn't repeating the FaFL maneuver over and over again?

>>49951007
Having By Rage Recast as one of your charms also means you're GSP, that means anyone with Holy attack can fuck you up.

>>49951007
>Is it just that mutations are all fucking overpriced?

Well yes, but the point was it to be babbies first Devil Tiger pre-requisite

>>49951007

It can only manifest 8 points of mutations at a time, and can only do so at full anima banner.

>>49951093

Not much of an issue unless you're an Eclipse caste. Infernals are CoDs by default.

>>49951093
That applies to every single Infernal charm, so it can't be the reasoning for By Rage Recast.

>>49951119
Yes, and 8 points = 16xp, and you can retain them after your banner dies down.

>>49951156
I'm not sure mutation is that powerful, or I just skip that part of the core book.

>>49918250
>autist bootlickers on SV
oh hi Holden how are you doing

>>49951474
Hello Strength of Many

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>>49951474
One doesn't have to be Holden to dislike EarthScorpion, you know. I think they're both massively ego-inflated clowns.

>>49951474
I am genuinely annoyed by Earthscorpion and the pointless squeeing over Kerisgame whenever I post there.

>steps into exalted tgread.
Wtf whut is this.
>seps out.

>>49951550
Okay.

>>49922981
>leddit
That was your first mistake.

>>49951658
This is like a Special Olympics bowler talking shit about a Special Olympics table tennis player.

>>49951863
They're called the Paralympics you unt

>>49951873
No, anon, they are not. Paralympics are for people with physical disabilities, Special Olympics for people with intellectual disabilities.

>>49951873
>unt
Thanks for confirming you're in the Special Olympics.

>>49951512
Considering how much of a cuck Holden is and how much he's feuded with those people I think it's understandable (even if it's stupid) for those idiots at SV to jump at shadows. They're both idiots but it makes sense to me at least.

anybody know of a backup from Exalted Compendium website?

>>49951474
I find it amusing that they hate eachother, given they are essentially the same person.

>>49952348
But Holden doesn't post on here or on SV, and accusing people who shit-talk Earthscorpion of secretly being Holden is pointless, as plenty of other people also love to shit-talk Earthscorpion.

>>49953846
You could never tell, given how thoroughly SV fellates Earthscorpion's brilliance, and totally insist his 2E houserules fix everything wrong with 2E.

The ones that still use Tick Combat, mind you.

>>49953846
I honestly don't know if Holden gives a shit beyond not liking ES's Terrifying Argent Witches thing.

>>49953947
If he hated it so much why did he replace the awesomeness of infernals with the bland shit of taw?

>>49912475
I gave up my religion when learning terrestial. I am planning on my love for celestial. Am unlikely to reach solar so that's not a concern

I have a question about Void Silcing Wind for Single Point style, specifically the part about using Countless Strike's Unsheathed to make multiple attacks against everyone in a line.

"Against each such enemy, she may choose to make a withering strike, which deals
her Essence in Initiative damage and adds to the Initiative pool chosen for the final attack
(including any Initiative Breaks received)"

Does this mean either withering attack only deals 3 damage if your Essence is 3? Isn't this virtually pointless with literally any source of armour or soak?

What are the penalties for attacking using two weapons?

>>49957036

The off hand penalty is -1 unless you picked up ambidexterity. If you've two identical weapon you get +2 to clashes, if you're using two dissimilar weapons you have o choose which one you attack or defend with every turn.

>>49954181
He didn't do that though?

>>49956060
No, its not dice of damage, its simply damage period. Soak wouldn't apply, their init would go down by 3i if it hit in that case. It functions similarly to the NPC charm Searing Edge Attack.

>>49920336
>>49921317
What is his spin?

>>49958140

Magitech and transhumanism being the most important parts of the setting, with Exaltations being treated as military hardware and the ultimate goal of all Exalts to become something other than a human being.

>>49909036
>Unusual Supernal Edition: What have people picked and how did it work out?

Strangely enough, I haven't seen anyone do Martial Arts supernal. Although I really want to; I want to play an MA supernal Dawn with the version of Ambidextrous that lets me use my feet to hold weapons, so I can learn every style and have four different weapons for those styles.

>>49958544

Will you stand on your head?

>>49958608
No, but I'd have a ton of Athletics and Dexterity, and flavor it as almost close to breakdancing. Shit like flipping onto my hands, then spinning with two swords held between my toes to cut like a whirlwind through the crowd of people gathered around me.

>>49949621

Year and a half, two years.

That's without the Essence cap breakers.

Because everyone has so many varied focuses and proficiencies, is planning sessions as "Player X's session" and the next as "Player Y's session" around what they can do well a good or bad plan.

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>>49958193
>the ultimate goal of all Exalts to become something other than a human being.
Shit, really? Got a link?

>>49933129
Be an Infernal, learn Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai and Greater Shintai of the Endless Desert then figure out the appropriate Heresy charm that combines them to turn you into a huge landscape full of huge mutant demon guts.

>>49933142
Okay, uh.

Somebody please prove to me Lunars are better shapeshifters than Infernals? Because as much as I dig Infernals I feel kind of bad.

>>49939773
Just curious, what the maximum solar ambition feat listed in 3e? Haven't picked it up yet.

>>49960280

Considering Infernals, by dint of how their Charms work, get to be better Xs than anyone for all values of X, that's not going to happen.

Even if Lunars weren't crippled by multiple terrible design decisions, Infernals would still be better shapeshifters than them, just like they're better fate-manipulators, better at doing personal excellence, better at teamwork, better at [whatever else you can justify a Yozi Charm for--which, considering each one is a world unto itself, is the set of all things].

>>49951512
Can someone explain to me once and for all what the hell EarthScorpion's done that I should shun him on sight? I keep getting vague allusions to him being surrounded by yes-men and being up his own ass about fluff but nothing worse than, say, the touhoufag who used to hang in /nwod/ general back when it wasn't /cod/ general.

>>49960341
He's an asshole and he argues well. That's really it. He's incredibly fucking unpleasant often times and he's rather adamant in a lot of his views for Exalted, which he articulates fairly well, and has for a long time.

That's really it afaik

>>49960327
I thought Infernals had to approach problems more indirectly than Solars who can just charge first and stunt/combo their way through the problem.

...okay, not a good start comparing them to canon meme-Ultramarines. Better example: From what I recall they have a LOT less esoteric/conceptual stuff than Sidereals. Definitely a lot fewer fate manipulation options from what I remember, most of which involve the Ebon Dragon's "Haha, you win at everything until you fail utterly", "You fail to varying degrees as defined on an individual basis" and "I'm taking your character sheet home with me" charms.

I don't remember a lot of personal excellence either. Solars are the ones with "you do X really well" charms, Infernals just do X really well as a side effect of being the wind or the nuclear tyrant or whatever. Even ABYSSALS are at least focused on agg damage infliction and ruining stuff.

And I don't remember anyone trumping a DB when it comes to charm combos or teamwork.

>>49960364
Oh. Fair enough.

>>49960384
>Better example: From what I recall they have a LOT less esoteric/conceptual stuff than Sidereals.
Name one.

>Definitely a lot fewer fate manipulation options from what I remember,
Verdant Emptiness Endowment and its upgrade Charms blow non-Resplendent Destiny astrology out of the water. Loom-Snarling Deception covers 75% of the use case for RD astrology, with the remaining 25% either covered by other Charms or one of the rare cases where the copypasta made the ability stronger.

>I don't remember a lot of personal excellence either. Solars are the ones with "you do X really well" charms, Infernals just do X really well as a side effect of being the wind or the nuclear tyrant or whatever.
Yes, my mistake, they /merely/ get to be awesome at something as part of doing something else as well.

>Even ABYSSALS are at least focused on agg damage infliction and ruining stuff.
You mean like the Agg damage Infernals get to throw on the single best post-soak damage booster in the game? GSNF takes the entire Abyssal bad-touch tree out back and shoots it in the head.

>And I don't remember anyone trumping a DB when it comes to charm combos or teamwork.
SWLiHN.

>>49960449
Uh. Neighbourhood Relocation Scheme? Ceasing to Exist Approach? Conning Chaos Technique?

>VEE

...they do? I thought they ultimately boil down to +/- a shitton of Backgrounds/Abilities/Attributes/Charms. I admit I don't consider what Loom-Snarling Deception does equivalent to astrology mainly because you can only apply it to yourself, not others

Alright. I just think it's an important distinction because I'm just saying-a Solar has the OPTION of running around or just standing in place and doing a really good sword technique whereas a Scourge HAS to run around or their PD's screwed and Malfeas doesn't do much to give you finesse as a fighter.

Be fair, they need ESSENCE 6 to put out agg damage against anything that isn't of the Wyld, and most games end before E6. Whereas while I don't remember Abyssals all that well, I'm pretty sure they get agg damage around the same time Solars do vs Creatures of Darkness. Before that I can't say the GSNF series seems that good when it's just a few puny single-digit additions of lethal damage

>SWLIHN

...explain? I thought she's more about brainwashing a bunch of people into compliance. When I said DBs do teamwork the best, I was thinking more in the context of having powerful charm effects and discounts from working together.

>>49958714
thanks.

__________________________________
after two years I hardly see deviltigers as "ruining the game" I mean you'd have to be doing *something* for all that time that wasn't that


>>49960280
infernals can do some extreme shapeshifting, but it's fairly limited.
you've got "i sprout random obvious mutations", "I can become any fictional person", "i can be your evil twin", and "i turn into a sandstorm/the blob/kaiju" type shintais.


lunars can do animals, humans, demons, gods, behemoths, random mutations, landscape and environmental effects, plants, kaiju, swarms,

lunars can do more types of thing. they're capable of doing subtle better and kaiju almost as well...its just lunars need more charm investment than infernals to do most of what they do well for some reason.


they're better shapeshifters, but not by as much as you'd think given their status as "the shapeshifing exalts"

>>49960384
yes, you remember correctly

>>49960449
>SWLiHN.
lol, only if you're cool with mindraping those "teammates" out of existence to do it

>>49960681
Thank you. That's sad, but not as sad as I was worried about given there's only one canon Infernal landscape shintai. Maybe two if you get creative with Thank-You-For-Buying-All-My-Charms Shintai, but Shoggoth Shintai's too smol.

Honestly, if you were a Solar what would you even do with your Lunar knowing all this shit-or even an Infernal? Goes without saying Abyssals use them as body pillows.

You have this bright young thing who shows up all hyped and telling you about how they're your wingman/soulmate when you KNOW you can either do anything they can just plain better without wasting time on hunting some dude, OR turn into a scarier ragebeast and get what you want more efficiently than they can even imagine.

>>49960700
Actually-are we counting Hundredfold Facets of Enlightenment or not? Because while it's not much of a consolation prize given it's locked at E8-10, being able to say you can turn into an Unshaped/Primordial is pretty neat I guess.

Damned if I know how the fuck they playtested those though.

>>49960630
>Neighbourhood Relocation Scheme?
One of the big Shintais.

>Ceasing to Exist Approach?
What is: Loom-Snarling Deception

>Conning Chaos Technique?
SWL's Wyld-Shaping Technique equivalent eats it for breakfast.

>...they do? I thought they ultimately boil down to +/- a shitton of Backgrounds/Abilities/Attributes/Charms.
And that blows the SHIT out of "yeah people get a -1TN, but only if they're mortals because attempting to affect Exalt or spirits jacks the difficulty so high that I may as well not bother."

>[...] mainly because you can only apply it to yourself, not others
Considering you can't apply RDs to others either, there's no difference.

>whereas a Scourge HAS to run around or their PD's screwed
So just buy a different one of the 6+ PDs available to Infernals if that doesn't gel with your fighting style. Generally anyone who could force you into violating an Infernal PD condition could force you into violating a Solar PD condition.

>and Malfeas doesn't do much to give you finesse as a fighter.
He does it as well as Solar Melee does, since there's no distinction between "doing it really finesse-ly" and "doing it really hard" in the mechanics.

>Be fair, they need ESSENCE 6 to put out agg damage against anything that isn't of the Wyld,
VCE is giving them aggravated damage to gods, the second most-common form of meaningful opposition Exalts face (the first being demons).

>[...] just a few puny single-digit additions of lethal damage
In a game where 90% of your opposition has single-digit health level counts? It's also a keyword-defense check, since getting slammed by Final Viridescence is a death sentence.

>I was thinking more in the context of having powerful charm effects and discounts from working together.
Which might be something you could say, if DBs had more than 3 of those (2 of which are Elemental Bolt and Elemental Bolt Harder).

>>49960844
>Shintais

Um. I...don't think any of them can steal a neighbourhood WITHOUT smashing it up in the process.

>LSD

...fuck. Am I just remembering Sidereals to be more impressive than they actually are?

>WST

Nope, it inflicts the Wyld ON people, not shapes it.

Also, exhibit B: Dream Confistication Approach, Throne Shadow Style (not counting the other MAs for fairness' sake, but this IS the native style), Shadow Piercing Needle (is way better value than the equivalent ED curse) and Predestined Delivery Shaping.

...if you say so. I. It doesn't sound right that the fate splats aren't as good at affecting fate as the jackass genie splat, but I don't know why.

Isn't Astrology easier to apply to a group of people though? Also I forgot how Craft: Fate works, but don't Sidereals have a better affinity/charms I've forgotten about that directly make them better at it as opposed to Infernals?

>Solar PD

Come off it, everyone I know who isn't building just for character reasons goes for the Conviction flaw and stunts like a motherfucker. Infernals are a lot more situational in terms of HOW they can fight their battles-and also Cecelyne's and Kimbery's just plain sucks balls for the most common situations where you'd actually need a PD.

>in the mechanics

Admittedly yes, I do think the distinction in fluff's important between "the Solar does the tsubami gaeshi" and "the Infernal sets his sword on fire before whacking you with it" but also-from what I recall most Malfean combat charms that aren't about setting you on fire are just individual blows with kooky effects, not success-adders or DV-modifiers or whatnot which seems to imply they're less accurate overall

>VCE

My point still stands-both Solars and Abyssal agg damage has a much broader applicability.

<Keyword-defense check

Shit. Okay yeah, that's. Fuck me, why do I always forget about the Green Sun Wasting and the like.

Fair enough.

>situational

Also I'm pretty sure trying to plant a flag in the wilderness and going I LIVE HERE or jogging on the spot and saying IM RUNNING or trying to use high Lore/Occult to justify that I KNOW THAT COMBO is more likely to make the ST slap you than convincing him X supports your Motivation.

Also a good amount of attacks you actually want to PD have the Holy keyword, which is bad news for Fiends.

>>49960449
But you have to be 5-6 charms deep in GSNF to be that strong? Not even the infernal lance is as effective as solar saber

>>49961161
That seems to be a recurring trend with Infernals, to varying extents. SWLIHN is the most blatent and ED the most easy to cheese-but it's almost like it's part of the Yozi mindset that you NEED 5-6 Charms to do the same things Solars can do with just one mid-high Essence Charm.

I mean, it kinda makes sense considering the mindsets behind the charm-givers:

Malfeas: YES, SMASH THEM HARDER. NOW BURN THEM. NOW SMASH THEM SOME MORE. YOU ARE A MAIMED, CRIPPLED, STUPID APE BUT WITH MY GIFTS YOU CAN WEAR YOUR OPPONENTS DOWN WITH VIOLENCE.

Cecelyne: Good, you know their heart's desire. Now you can bind them with it. What's that, fighting? Ha. Fighting is beneath you, silly. Just shock and awe them with a few miracles and then drown them in minions. And remember not to raise a hand against your betters.

SWLIHN: You must take these charms in the correct order. You will apply them for their ordained purpose, nothing more and nothing less. You should have avoided situations where they would be used inefficiently. Once your loyalty has been proven, you will be rewarded with the most broken of shintais.

Adorjan: [muffled giggling and murder in the distance]

Ebon Dragon: Heh, you know I hiked up those scary curses as a joke right? You can get everything you NEED at E3 and before, because I'm all about results not quality. Oh, but you might be interested in THIS tree if you have someone you really hate. And if you DO play along with me, I'll teach you how to make your ST regret daring to have competant enemies with the same Essence as you.

>>49961074
>Um. I...don't think any of them can steal a neighbourhood WITHOUT smashing it up in the process.
That's up to method. Cecelyne's is certainly physically big enough to carry a city without necessarily exerting enough force on any one point to damage it.

>Nope, it inflicts the Wyld ON people, not shapes it.
A side effect of its actual purpose, which is to stabilize a chunk of the Wyld. In any case, the effects of the curse can be matched otherwise.

>MA stuff
I'll admit I'm not familiar with Throne Shadow Style.

>...if you say so. I. It doesn't sound right that the fate splats aren't as good at affecting fate as the jackass genie splat, but I don't know why.
Because astrology is super punishingly written, mostly.

>Isn't Astrology easier to apply to a group of people though?
Somewhat. Astrology is easier to directly, mechanically apply to a large number of people, but you can achieve similar scopes of action by using VEE to e.g. make someone a prince.

>Also I forgot how Craft: Fate works, but don't Sidereals have a better affinity/charms I've forgotten about that directly make them better at it as opposed to Infernals?
Infernals have a craft-accelerator and a Wonder-Forging Genius-equivalent, which basically all there is to being good at Craft in 2E.

>Come off it, everyone I know who isn't building just for character reasons goes for the Conviction flaw and stunts like a motherfucker.
Your bad players are not my problem.

>not success-adders or DV-modifiers or whatnot which seems to imply they're less accurate overall
This is 2E, you remember. Solar trees are pretty low on that sort of thing too, since they cut straight to "negate all penalties entirely" or "just straight multiply damage, my guy."

>My point still stands-both Solars and Abyssal agg damage has a much broader applicability.
Fair enough.

>>49961317
Huh. I'll have to take your word for the remainder of the Sidereal stuff in turn. Throne Shadow's major thing is being able to manipulate people around you to attack better.

>Craft-accelerator and a Wonder-Forging Genius

Wait, really? I swore being able to throw successes and shit and the problem was really important if you want to make actually GOOD artifacts at 5 dots or more. Though I just remembered an unreasonable number of Solar Craft charms seem to be stuff like "this thing is now super durable" or "you can build it, therefore you can break it" or "you know how to pilot things because you build things well" instead of actual crafting.

>Bad players

My point was more that while Solars MIGHT have a problem if caught off-guard, an Infernal literally CAN'T do anything about not being in a city/not being mobile and that certain PD conditions are written to be rather punishing.

>cut straight to

True. In that case I don't know whether to blame the players I know or the influence of Infernal Monster for the absolute lack of exquisitely precise Slayer fencers/archers/lancers and the abundance of hellhulks.

>>49961422
>Wait, really? I swore being able to throw successes and shit and the problem was really important if you want to make actually GOOD artifacts at 5 dots or more. Though I just remembered an unreasonable number of Solar Craft charms seem to be stuff like "this thing is now super durable" or "you can build it, therefore you can break it" or "you know how to pilot things because you build things well" instead of actual crafting.

Nah; artifact crafting in 2E was an extended action, so you could just keep at it forever so long as you could clear the difficulty, and eventually you'd get there.

Wonder-Forging Genius was necessary so you could meet the requirements for 4- and 5-dot artifacts without having Essence 6, and a craft-accelerator was necessary so you could craft on a timescale other than "generational."

>>49961475
...huh.

I'm just imagining this dumbfuck Dawn who spends all day and all night punching magical materials with his bare hands for a hundred years, night and day to gather successes, until he comes out carrying a superweapon.

...okay, that came out a lot more wuia and a lot less dumbassy than i meant.

>>49961504
*wuxia

>>49953902
>You could never tell, given how thoroughly SV fellates Earthscorpion's brilliance, and totally insist his 2E houserules fix everything wrong with 2E.
>The ones that still use Tick Combat, mind you.
As the threat of having to roll Join Battle is still, well, a threat, he clearly hasn't fixed everything yet.

your own po as familiar?

>>49960280
>Somebody please prove to me Lunars are better shapeshifters than Infernals?
Errata to Hybrid Body Rearrangement. That's enough, really. Get a decent Heart's Blood library and you can manifest absolutely any mutation, any time, on top of the being able to turn into people and animals and ghosts and demons and whatnot.

>>49961298
I just check the charm tree again, if you want your GSNF to be effective like Solar combat you need at least E4:
>Insignificant Embers Intuition
>Green Sun Nimbus Flare
>Wrath-Stoked Bonfire Soul
>Kissed By Hellish Noon
>Cold Fire Desolation Brand, E5 for Final Viridescence
>Rebuking Impudent Arms
>Vitriolic Corona Endowment
So 7 charms if you don't have a good weapon, it costs more than a regular combat monkey Solar but it's expected I guess