/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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>What do you think will happen to the more minor splats (Hunter,Mummy,Changeling etc..) when One World Of Darkness hits?

ded

>>49891509
I like the concept of playing as inhuman creatures of the night that are chock full of old school superstition that are just trying to make it in the world, but I don't care for the sexuality inherent to vampires.

Is Promethean the system for me? If so, how does the average game of Promethean go?

>>49891509
http://pastebin.com/u/Aspel
Don't forget to link sample plays by our resident SJW!

>>49891603
He did. And Aspel is our resident control freak, pedophile SJW. Get it right.

>>49891573
I predict that they'll get reduced product lines in comparison to the big three.

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>mfw playing V:TM:B for Halloween
>mfw downloading Kindred: The Embrace
>mfw downloading all WoD PDFs

One World is just gonna be the Big Three all day every day. Changeling might be able to squeak in since it's got a LARP base and its brand of Urban Fantasy is decent counter-programming to the current UF landscape.

>>49891914

Is it possible to OD on WoD? We'll find out, I suppose.

>>49891579

Promethean is a game about that's about learning about humanity while living on the margins of it. The average game of Promethean will put protagonists in very humanistic conflicts and situations, while contrasting them with the presence of Alchemists, Centimani, Pandorans, and the enigmatic Qashmallim.

An example plot hook might be that you've decided that you're going to try to imitate human day-to-day life for a while, to help stoke the fire within you into becoming a real soul. So, you get a job in a rock quarry for a decent wage. You make friends despite the Disquiet within you, and enemies because of said Disquiet. Then one of your friends discovers a weird statue in the quarry that turns out to be a Pandoran. The Pandoran activates upon sensing your inner fire, leaps up to eat you, and then all hell breaks loose.

It's a very high concept game, but if you like picaresque narratives with a horror bent, you might dig it.

>>49891509
What's the deal with One World of Darkness? I thought it was simply the new name of oWoD, but I'm a bit out of the loop.

>>49892341
Paradox is rebooting the whole set of gamelines which will include an entire canon rewrite.

>>49892268
Did 2nd edition add any new monster types? I know the default is: Frankenstein, living statue, golem, and zombie.

>>49892398
extempore, who can come from anything

>>49891914
you also need a copy of The Succubus Club playing on your media box:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vympzV240mM

>OP's question
The Big Three will dominate all creative choices and Global Metaplot. Elricsson ("head storyteller") is a douche edgelord obsessed with the crappy 1e editions of the Big Three, going so far as to hire back old writers that clearly need therapy and padded wallpaper now. Sure, some of the art back then was boss, but the writing could be generously described as hit and miss.

If we're lucky, we might see updated versions of the other lines, but I'm not holding my breath.

* The whole point of Hunter was that time was running out for Humanity to make a difference, and that urgency is lost in Elricsson's post-Gehenna world.
* Demon needs fixing and updating, but it might not match up with Infernalists in V:tM or the Nephandi in Mage (which are surely the priorities) and could end up scrapped in collateral damage.
* Wraith has pretty good chances of decent treatment. There's a solid fanbase who are still buying POD copies, it doesn't tread on the toes of the other splats and it offers a chance for players to explore a second, far darker chapter in their character's existence.
* Mummy will inevitably be rehashed into something even lamer, probably as mere allies for the Garou. 2nd Ed was the only version worth a shit.
* Changeling really has a chance to take off in a way it didn't 20 years ago. Urban Fantasy is a genre of fiction now. If WW play their cards right, it could be a real winner-winner chicken dinner. But again, *Elricsson*.

>>49892377
What kind of reboot are we talking about? What will happen to CofD?

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>>49892377
>rebooting the whole set
>entire canon rewrite

WAILING INTENSIFIES

>>49892398
There's robot and spontaneous generation as well, plus dust golem from the Dust Bowl Dark Era.

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My Mega is bigger than yours, OP.
https://mega.nz/#F!wpB0ib4a!EsAU0AE4ihrNlDWzp3-MIw!soA0EbTB

>>49892493
>What kind of reboot are we talking about?
Full on reboot-reboot. It won't be a new nWoD, all of the familiar things will be there, but it will still be a reboot. Basically like the World of Darkness equivalent of the new Star Wars movie.
>What will happen to CofD?
Given how much money Paradox can use to push CofD out of the market, most likely a slow death.

Did we finally get Aspel banned?

Last thread was a clusterfuck of epic proportions. I used to have difficulty deciding who was worse for shitting up threads, Camilla or Aspel. Now the answer is clear, it's Aspel.

Aspel is a literal pedophile, a sadist, and an SJW. Camilla's fucking annoying as hell, but at the end of the day is just a harmless weeb who simply doesn't understand the source material.

Atamajakki is still awesome though, as always.

Anyway, enough about Aspel (and let's hope he doesn't return to the threads again). Let's talk about some Classic World of Darkness.

Do you guys think Martin Ericsson's "One World of Darkness" vision will be good or bad? I'm kind of on the fence. On the one hand, I appreciate that White Wolf is now in the hands of someone who actually likes and cares about the IP (unlike CCP) but on the other hand, I don't like some of the changes he's hinting at for his One World of Darkness franchise or his dismissive attitude towards Chronicles of Darkness.

>>49892587
>Atamajakki is still awesome though, as always.
I wonder who's behind this post...

>>49892469
Agreed

>>49892602
Um, atamajakk has some SJW tendencies, so I doubt she'd be condemning Aspel for being one as well. Though atamajakki is also a decent human being, so I could see her condemning Aspel's pedophilic behaviors and defensiveness regarding said behavior.

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>>49892602

>>49892576
So a reboot-sequel? Damn, that kind of sucks.

>>49892724
I think Martin Ericsson has the passion required for reviving the World of Darkness, but lacks the aptitude and competence that is also required as well.

He also seems to be a generally unpleasant edgelord from his interviews and statements.

If you people fucking start a poster drama derail again, I will open my mouth and sing the song that summons Martin Ericsson to this thread.

>>49892738

It's weird. He's a cool, creative dude when it comes to everything outside of this. But holy shit his "canon" short story in the re-issue of Dark Destiny. What the hell.

>>49892738
This

>>49892796
Yup. Martin Ericsson shouldn't be allowed near White Wolf's IP's. Let him work on the next update for Crusader Kings II or something, but keep him away from WoD! And re-invest in Chronicles of Darkness while you're at it!

>>49892587
If you want to know what I think Martin Elricsson will do to the oWoD, take a look at what happened when Games Workshop hired Matt Ward, a long time fan, and gave him the creative control over their 40,000 line. "Contentious" doesn't begin to cover the harm that an out-of-control fanboy can do to the brand, the gamelines themselves, and finally, the relationship between the company and those of us holding money, which, spoiler alert, is what a business is about, not "reshaping the zeitgeist" or whatever wank-words are being thrown around in Sweden right now.

Ok. CoD 2e question.
How many reflexive actions can you use in turn?
How many same reflexive actions can you use in turn?

>>49892796
>holy shit his "canon" short story in the re-issue of Dark Destiny. What the hell.

I haven't read it. How bad is it?

really interesting thread about Elricsson setting the fans at ease by deliberately contradicting his partners in a stripped down shareholder pitch....

https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?788993-Anyone-with-a-report-from-the-White-Wolf-panel-at-Grand-Masquerade

>>49893154
>As an example of Mr. Ericsson veering sharply off-message, one of the players who was expressing concern about White Wolf seeming dismissive towards the issues that led to the MES topic-ban brought up the fact that for many players these are things they grapple with in real life, and don't necessarily want to deal with in game because LARP "is something they do for fun". The rest of the panel re-emphasized the point that it's up to each group to decide which aspects of they WOD they want to deal with, and they respect and encourage that self-determination. Everything seemed to be settling down, and then Martin jumped in with (paraphrasing slightly): "What does this word "Fun" mean anyways? It's kind of meaningless in the context of a horror game. We are trying to generate meaningful stories, and isn't it more true to say we are looking for a sense of catharsis from confronting the evils of the world?"

So rape is fun now, because forcing players to play shitty MET games with neckbeards that turn every scene into creepy ERP achieves catharsis, or something. #ElricssonTrump

>>49893247
I don't know, to me that sounds like the exact kind of response I'd want to hear that WoD 3: Revengeance will still have the same 90s cheesy edge.

>>49892935

>So we whiled away the long gloom of anticipation before the hunt pretending to fuck like a suburban couple, red satin sheets and plastic tarps under the mattress hiding the blood-cum stains... She screamed as I sucked and threw me straight through the solid pine wall as she came.

>Screaming in lust from the concentrated spunk in my groins- blood, the Akalia started to wriggle out of its dirty jeans, still gagging on my bleeding junk. It let go only to suck in air, preparing to turn its centuries- dormant sexual organs into full ass-rape stiffness.

You know, a mature setting that will help us confront our own human evil.

>>49892576
is CofD that unpopular that they wouldnt just keep both around? Shitposters aside, the games are fine (some quite good). Ya WoD has the nostalgia factor but is it really that much larger than Chronicles that they would kill it?

>>49893470
>>49892576
>Given how much money Paradox can use to push CofD out of the market, most likely a slow death.
Seriously doubt that.

>>49893435
>>full ass-rape stiffness.
That is some meme-worthy maturity and catharsis, right there.

More Shit Elricsson Says:
>”What if the monsters are real, hidden among us?”, is the elevator pitch for the new metaplot. Gothic-Punk is dead and buried as an aesthetic. (...) In line with this we integrate dramatic real world events to feature prominently in the story. We face difficult social subjects like the rise of fascism, religious fanaticism and the death of ideology in mainstream politics, head on. This naturally leads us to focus on areas where dramatic change is happening. Also there are more books on the US of Darkness than the rest of the world combined.

FUCK THE DESIGN PRINCIPLES THE COMPANY WAS BUILT ON
FUCK EUROPE
FUCK SOUTH AMERICA
FUCK EVERY SPANISH SPEAKER THAT PONIED UP FOR A TRANSLATION
LET'S TREAT THE RISE OF FASCISM IN A MATURE AND SENSIBLE WAY BY SUGGESTING THE GODDAMN NOSFERATU DID THIS

>>49893470

They probably won't actually kill it, it's just that as long as White Wolf wants to give WoD the grand transmedia tie-ins, there's not much CofD can do to get market and mind share when all they have is like five employees, an army of freelancers, and a single (albeit very popular) storefront that sells their material.

>>49893470
That will probably stick with Onyx Path.

Do vampires breath? Everything points to them not having to breath but wouldn't they do it automatically, without thinking about it?

>>49893540
>White Wolf wants to give WoD the grand transmedia tie-ins

Oh god, like, I hope all that stuff is good but holy fuck I can't get rid of the feeling that they're just setting up for failure.

>>49890243
Thread died as I was replying.
There's a bunch of playtest stuff released, including an entire chapter, but I can't really find it since it's scattered about. But, good news, everybody!
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/985239-very-minor-but-also-major-update
>So, this sort of stuff isn't part of the Meeting Notes crawl. But for the sake of transparency, I just sent over the compiled drafts for OPP/White Wolf approval, so we can get moving with the process.

>Like I said, there will be changes. There are a few things I just couldn't realistically get to in the time I had. But, I will as we do proof and errata pass work.

Apparently this shit can take three to six months, so don't hold your breath for getting Changeling as a Christmas gift, but still.

>>49892587
>>49892646
Maybe you should stop being obsessed with shitposting about board personalities.

>>49892602
Jakki's mentioned in the Discord that she finds it creepy that someone keeps talking about her like that.

>>49893579
Vampires don't NEED to breathe

But they can i they want to

>>49893527
>I love CoD (formerly NWoD) and find that is a much more playable game with a more vague and unsettling aesthetic than WoD ever had. Too bad it never sold for shit and that old players hated it. It lacked the epic scope and the punk passion of the classic WoD. Had it done even remotely as well as the classic WoD things would be very different.

---Martin "can I please be Dracula? I've got my own trenchcoat and everything" Elricsson

>>49892150
Hunter seems like it'd be a decent addition, and Wraith fits in, even if it's mostly 'Offscreen' as games go.

>>49892931
As many Reflexive actions as is reasonable (spending Willpower and energy points count as actions, if I remember). You can generally only use the same action once per turn. So no using Celerity three times to run super duper fast.

>>49893247
>>49893337
I feel like that's a well meaning but thick reply. Like... bless his heart for trying.
(For those of you not from the South, that means "that boy is a fucking idiot, hide the sharp objects")

>>49893619

>If you people fucking start a poster drama derail again, I will open my mouth and sing the song that summons Martin Ericsson to this thread.

I expect Changeling 2e to be around spring 2017, with a PoD version in summer 2017. They COULD get it by the end of the year, but two CofD cores coming out in the same year would be a true Christmas miracle.

>>49893606

The thing about transmedia is that it lives and dies on the people in charge of the tie-ins, not just the core creative team. They had better hope they get the horror/urban fantasy equivalent of Vince Gilligan in charge of the TV show project.

>>49893683

Wraith is Dracula's favorite, so it's probably going to show up in one way or another. The real question is whether or not Hunter would end up on the wrong side of the "horror vs urban fantasy" question in Dracula's mind.

>>49893579
off the top of my head, rules in oWoD were that, no, they don't need to breathe. There's a branch of Gangrel and another of Giovanni that went aquatic. They have to consciously focus on moving their chest to breathe. There was a secondary Talent called Masquerade that covered that kind of "acting" around mortals. Vampires on Paths give up any ability to breathe, flush their skin with warmth, or any of the rest of that "blending in" shit. They are above that. They are evolved.

>>49893735
Wraith is my favorite as well, I enjoy the Baroque mixed with Bettlejuice that it's got going on, but I've always had trouble convincing people to actually play it. The game I have had went well, it's just a really hard pitch you know? And I believe you can play Hunter either way, if they are based around Horror it's more a la Supernatural, if their tropes are UF in nature, they'd come off more like X-Files or Eerie, Indiana.

Also, who is Dracula? I don't keep up on the staffing of the company or what have you.

>>49893435
>>49893527
>And people were criticizing my vampire smut

>>49893540
I doubt CofD will just die. I mean, it still does well enough even when there's 20th Anniversary Editions. And, frankly... >>49893606

>>49893703
I'm expecting January or February, really. But, like, in a "I don't have my hopes up" sort of "expecting".

>>49893735
Man, what the fuck even does he think Urban Fantasy is. You can't do a game about being fucking vampires and wizards without it being Urban Fantasy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brs6-uQMfGU#t=2s

ALUCARD
L
U
C
A
R
D

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>>49893802
Martin Elrikkson--current Lead Storyteller of White Wolf and LARPmaster extraordinaire--was a high tier backer of the Kickstarter for Vampire: the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition, and as such he was able to have his likeness in the art for the Clans. He was the face of the Tzimisce.

>>49893822

Your vampire smut is still garbage but at least you're not charging people for it and putting it at the end of an anthology with stories people might want to read. Small mercies.

>Man, what the fuck even does he think Urban Fantasy is.

Dracula is probably referring to the whole Dresden Files/Anita Blake/Night Watch kind of stuff. If it's not actively trying to shock, unsettle, or scare a person as the main objective, it's Urban Fantasy.

>>49893802

Dracula's the nickname for Martin Ericsson, the creative director for Paradox's White Wolf imprint, and basically the guy whose in charge of running the entire WoD show. White Wolf's got the keys to the WoD, CofD, and Exalted kingdom along with, I assume, anything White Wolf that CCP didn't sell off. But Martin's real focus is going to be a WoD, hence why we have One World of Darkness.

He dressed up as Dracula in Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition, so we call him Dracula.

>>49893435
Ummmm... guys?

Is Martin Ericsson really Aspel?

>>49891603
Yeah, because these threads suffer from too little attention paid to Aspel.

>>49892646
>she
No.

>>49894019

No Aspel's defining characteristic is refusing to shut up and be contrarian whilst also having absolutely no influence on people.

Giving Aspel a position of power would negate part of their identity.

>>49894019
>>49894050
>>49894057

Welp, ya'll went and did it. Time for me to sing the song that will summon Martin Ericcson to this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVNjx4k8mWk

No, I'm not using the other, actually VtM related song. I'm just summoning him, not empowering him.

Now it's just a matter of waiting...

>>49893912
Ooooh, thats why that Tzim looks like such a fag. I remember browsing through it, and wondering why the poor Fiends didnt get to re-use their art.
>>49893947
And so what, we can expect a resurgence of MET bullshit and 'Mah, Mah, Mah, woe is Meeeeeeeee, I have to kill to live, woe is Me, Mah, Mah' that we finally seemed to have gotten over in NWoD?

This video answers a few questions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlA6LKUNDWs

Briefly,
the artwork and feel of every line will be homogenized into the same grimdark look;
the focus of vampire will be being a bastard and manipulating the kine;
werewolves will be about Garou Nation internal shit and the planet is still dying;
Mage is about "the Ascension War at a time when technology is changing the world";
VtES may still return;
Bloodlines 2 is possible and so is another godawful Hunter game, but even better they're looking at lifting the C&D order on Project Vaulderie (Bloodlines Multiplayer through Unity engine);
The MMO assets will be cannibalised to spruce the Multimedia shit;
Demon, Changeling and Wraith will all "have their place". Mummy is not mentioned, but it's worth noting that Dracula's cock drips for 2e, not Mummy:tR;
MET can keep doing their rapey shit over there, White Wolf are going to throw hardcore Nordic LARPs in nuclear submarines and abandoned psychiatric hospitals in Europe, with live DJ's and people pretending to take fake drugs next to cleanskins snorting lines of sweetener;
good enough fan projects may earn official blessings and support. Larger commercial projects are welcome, as long as they got the bread to pay the piper, coz management are whores. Oh, and watch out for lawsuits!

>>49894137
Wow, this sounds absolutely atrocious. From my reckoning they're attempting to turn back the clock on the maturity and shades of grey that the lines eventually developed and want to go back to WW's catalog a la 1998

>>49894185

Only this time, we'll also have mobile phone games and slot machines with the brand, too!

>>49893703
>The thing about transmedia is that it lives and dies on the people in charge of the tie-ins,

Oh holy shit yes - remember Defiance? Fucking AMAZING TV show, but the game tied into it was laughably bad. It felt like one of those rush jobs they do with film tie-ins - shitty voice acting, shitty gameplay, decent fluff.

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>>49893912

>>49894241

While I never had the chance to watch Defiance, I had heard that the TV show was pretty good, so I'm genuinely flabbergasted that the MMO outlived the TV show. Apparently the MMO is going to finish the TV show's story now, or something?

But yeah, that's a great example. Every part of the property has to come together into a whole good IP, especially in its early phases.

>>49894106
I'm sorry, you got the tune wrong. That's the tune to summon Justin Achilli. The tune you want would be....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpdSm6-0ayo

COME, MARTIN ELRICSSON, CHOSEN OF TEPESH, I SUMMON THEE! FROM THE DEPTHS OF YOUR OWN ARSE I CALL FORTH YOUR DISHEVELLED, RAVEN-DYED HEAD!!

>>49894302
I thought the TV show got a second season two years later?

>>49893947
Elricsson doesn't have much control over By Night Studios. Ironically the LARP version of the game may stay more purist!

(I also found out today that the reason Assamites turn black as they age was because the game designer, a black man, thought black vampires turning white with age was racist bullshit.... so really, if you don't have black Assamites, you're being racist)

>>49894395

Didn't one of the BNS people jump ship to White Wolf recently?

>>49894185
Look at it this way. Elricsson is a purist, a man who literally wept when he read the Wraith core, a man who used the opportunity of making EU TV shows as a way to create unofficial oWoD slash fic. He is Matt Ward in platform boots. You can bet your left testicle/ovary that he's planning on spinning as much of the world back to 1998 as they can. He has stated again and again that the 1st editions had the best treatment of the source material, despite those versions being the least fleshed out with the shittiest mechanics. He wants everyone to be a grimdark, woe betide us all, we're all fucked, Monster. "We are all Monsters now in our One World of Darkness" was the byline with the relaunch in 2015.

Psychologically, this is dangerous territory. One of the hardest parts of getting someone to play Wraith is that there are almost no opportunities to break the tension up. It's actually a fucking horrible nightmare, and there's no getting out except for 2 methods, either of which erases you from existence. Compare and contrast with the Scottish classic, SLA Industries, which advised storytellers to find small moments of happiness for players caught in a hideous world - the smooth taste of a Coffin Nail cigarette after a brutal firefight, or a hot Mystery Meat Sausage from a street vendor when you're caught in the oily deluge of Downtown, or Operatives blowing off steam in The Pitt for TGIF. Werewolf allowed that with the accolades the characters earned through heroic action. Mage was such a wild and varied game that humorous elements didn't contradict the overall mood. Vampire, though.... unless your players are into it as kink, describing the sensual pleasure of penetrating unwilling flesh with fangs - the grown man's neck popping like a cherry whelp beneath the slight pressure and draining rich, salty, hot, liquid copper in thick, quaffing gulps is just going to make them feel uncomfortable. That means introducing a character entirely for comic relief.

>>49893802
I am still of the opinion that hunters should just be regular dudes who have either figured out that something's going on or who are members or organizations that have glimpsed behind the veil.

In short, they should just be the Arcanum, the Inquistions, Project Twilight (FBI Special Affairs Division and the NSA) and the Citizen's Defense League of Alma, Nebraska.

A question for Chris Allen if he shows up: Was there anything mechanical written for Mass: The Effecting that wasn't posted on https://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/Mass:_the_Effecting ?

Our ST is starting a game soon, and I've been scouring the internet for more.

>>49894386
Yeah, then it got canned. The shitty MMO still lives, somehow, despite the fact it looks like crap and plays even worse.

>>49894590

Honestly, a lot of the charm comes from oWoD's goofier shit. People knock on them, but all horror needs moments where the pressure needs to be let up, whether that be by regular drama or comedy. Plus, even White Wolf knew when it needed to make fun of itself every once in a while, which is why we have in-setting Black Dog.

WoD just isn't a setting that can be all dark all the time, and that's why I think it isn't going to take off like they hope it will. People want stuff like American Horror Story and Stranger Things, not Come and See: Now With Vampires.

>>49894549
hadn't heard about that, so I can't rightly say. What I also cannot say is where Onyx Path fit in to all this. Will they remain as a CofD label? Will they be dissolved into White Wolf?

>>49894628
Hmm, I may have had some stats for various creatures kicking around somewhere, possibly. The Rogues Gallery on the wiki was done by Kiero, one of my players, rather than by me, so it's probably missing some of the bits and pieces from the game I ran.

Mechanics-wise, I think that was about it?

>>49894607
Holy shit, this to the 100th logarithm. I always thought Hunter: the Reckoning to be both underwhelming in power levels and suffering from a cognitive dissonance in design values. The fluff is all about how hopelessly outgunned and fucked you are, but the art is shit cribbed from Buffy: the Vampire Slayer comics.

Arcanum, Inquisition, Project Twilight... they fucking work because it ties in with one of the fundamental ideas of every single one of the splats; we must remain hidden from humanity, because of how dangerous they are when they work together against a common threat. Every supernatural feared the swarm of humanity, so why not remind the fucking players?

>>49894698

Onyx Path continues their licensing relationship for their * of Darkness stuff. They can still do Chronicles of Darkness material and World of Darkness Material (their 20th Anniversary Editions are officially considered the 4th edition of the game by White Wolf), they just have to send everything they do to White Wolf for approval, just as they did for CCP. They just don't get any transmedia opportunities for their properties, and should White Wolf start a new publishing arm to get their games into stores, Onyx Path's material wouldn't join any 5e WoD stuff in being sold in brick and mortar.

Onyx Path probably knew something like this would happen, which is why they purchased Scion and Trinity Continuum outright, as well as licensing Cavaliers of Mars and Pugmire directly from Rose Bailey and Eddy Webb. Should the * of Darkness and Exalted licenses falter, OPP has backup.

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>talking about "Dracula"

>>49894698

Basically CCP bought the rights to all of the World of Darkness material and then licensed out a new company made largely of folks from White Wolf called Onyx Path to make new material for them. After murdering the WoD MMO and realizing that they had zero use for a tabletop game publishing arm, they sold the rights to Paradox Interactive, who revived White Wolf as a subsidiary of theirs currently staffed by like four Paradox employees. Onyx Path is still licensed to do all of their tabletop stuff while BNS handles the LARP material, but you can already see a little tension (which is why OPP is working on brands they own like Scion, Trinity, Pugmire, and Cavaliers of Mars.)

>>49894703
Thanks for the quick response. Do you think replacing thermal clips with ME1 style overheating would unbalance anything? The only issue we've noticed during character creation is that the Weapon Drill talent needs rewriting.

The rough outline for the overheating system (stolen from the Hurt Locker preview):
Low Capacity Weapons (10 or less rounds in current system):
Failure on Attack Roll: Overheats, spend your next action reloading.
Single Shot: No overheating.
Short Burst: After each short burst, spend your next action to reload.

Medium Capacity (11 to 50 rounds in current system):
Dramatic Failure (Botch): Overheats, spend your next action reloading.
Single Shot: No overheating.
Short Burst: After two short bursts, spend your next action to reload.
Medium Burst: After each medium burst, spend your next action to reload.

High Capacity (50+ rounds in current system):
Single Shot: No overheating.
Short Burst: After three short bursts, spend your next action to reload.
Medium Burst: After two medium bursts, spend your next action to reload.
Long Burst: After each long burst, spend your next action to reload.

>>49893703
>two CofD cores coming out in the same year would be a true Christmas miracle
Behold, because Christmas came rather early this year (we already got Mage and Promethean)

>>49894835
>talking about "Dracula"
This man needs to fall into an open manhole cover and die.

>>49894923

Fuck that's right, I kept thinking Mage came out last year. I'll have to go roast some chestnuts.

>>49894929

At least he isn't fucking with the CofD and Wraith20 is already safe from his clutches.

If only he wasn't there to ruin Demon 20 if/when it happens.

>>49894776
>>49894835
Thanks for the lowdown, guys. I appreciate it.

Random quote from my google searches:
>What 'White Wolf'? It's two guys in a marketing office... They haven't existed outside of a name since CCP gutted them and Dansky pissed all over them.

>>49894835
>>49894929

See, I thought "Blood and Souls" was just an ill-advised manner of trying to be cute when answering his e-mails. Then he actually says it in the Grand Masquerade speech and I realized he really wants that to be his catchphrase.

>>49894952

Dansky hasn't done anything though? He's just slowly working on Wraith while not crushed beneath the gears of Ubisoft and horrific personal loss.

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How well does a werewolf stand up to an AM rifle, would it deter them from a squad retreating?

It's not enough is it

>>49894952
Glorious hyperbole continues:

>Dude, these guys are PURE OLD SCHOOL. They literally refuse to acknowledge the last 20+ years. Hence the hilarity that is coming. CWoD is unworkable on multiple levels but they don't care because they are fanbio's with serious money. Go ahead and spend it. You can't take it with you and you give me entertainment. We both win.

>Or what? You think the reason why the 20 lines never actually give you an answer or actual cleanup isn't for that very reason? Hell, "How Do You Do That?" is very nearly a criminal act deserving possible jail time.

>>49895006

If you're talking Forsaken, then someone in full hybrid form could probably handle one or two shots from it.

>>49895006
You can talk all day about Werewolf regeneration, but a good shot with one of those things will render the Uratha a bloody, sticky, dead, tattered mess of flesh, fur and bone.

>>49895006
If you're lucky, he'll get so pissed off he can't think clearly and runs straight into your field of fire, allowing you a sporting chance (LOL) when he closes to close quarters and goes full Crinos on your ass. I would be mostly concerned that the fire rate isn't sufficient to put enough holes in the bastard.

If you're unlucky, he'll think for a second, then just step sideways and flank you in the Umbra.

About that attempt of resurrecting World of Darkness by Paradox, do you guys actually believe it can be done?
I for a one am rather sceptical and expect burnout as it happened with CCP.

>>49894989

Maybe they're referring to how Richard Dansky set up the White Wolf to Ubisoft pipeline? A lot of White Wolf vets ended up working there.

>>49895057

What do you mean? The X20 books have all done very, very well. CCP didn't do a damn thing with WoD but it still did pretty good while they owned it.

>>49895006
If they aren't raging, dangerous enough to deter a single wolf. If they're raging, one rifle won't stop them.

>>49895057

Can it be revived? Yes, OPP has proven this over and over again with every successful X20 Kickstarter and the lines that come forth from it. There is still very much a market for these games. I feel that if the X20 games hit brick and mortar regularly we'd see even more popularity, same for CofD 2e.

Can the white hot zeitgeist of late 1e to early Revised World of Darkness be resurrected? Unless every single aspect of this multimedia project is at least good, there's not a chance in hell. White Wolf has to especially hope and pray that the inevitable Vampire game developer doesn't bungle things up.

>>49895057
Yes, it can be done but the seed of fail is still within the project.

Yes, I'm talking about Dracula.

>YAWYE is fucking stupid and I don't care if it's in the core book, that shit is not happening at my table.

>>49895057
The rulebooks will sell. There are enough old people who played in the heyday that they'll make a nice tidy profit.
So long as they don't fuck up the video games, it'll likely sell quite well given the reputation of Bloodlines.

But everything else?
I'm HIGHLY sceptical.

Honestly the only thing I might buy would be the video game.
I've played a couple of WoD games, and I can honestly say that I'm not too big a fan of its fans.
Or at least those I met.

I still haven't forgiven that motherfucker for fucking my character over by using fucking early 20th century skeevy business practices (and travel times) to a Medieval fucking setting. Getting a fucking contract passed around 3 fucking countries overnight included travelling over the English Channel. Vamp please.

>>49894590
>a man who used the opportunity of making EU TV shows as a way to create unofficial oWoD slash fic
What?

So I recently watched the first season of 'The Strain' and I loved the concept and how episodic the build up was written (for the most part). I really want to take my players into a similar episodic story, and I thought WoD is probably the best system for it (since the themes match so much).
What book should I read though, there are so many it's a bit confusing on where to star.

>>49895260
Which book you want depends entirely on what you want your players to be. If they're going to be regular people, all you need is the corebook.

>>49895260
Each supernatural faction book is pretty much self-contained.

The biggest decision is World of Darkness (very 90s, Vampire the Masquerade and so forth, much metaplot) v Chronicles of Darkness (more modern, stuff is shades of gray, people try to not be monsters, more a toolbox).

Within that, choose the line you like the sound of.
Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Hunter, Changeling, Demon, Mummy, Promethean, etc.
Then read that book.

There's no "core" book for World of Darkness, but there is one for Chronicles of Darkness. It has some stuff the supernatural books don't, and is mostly used for playing "mortals", people (normally) without Supernatural powers, and the backing, brass balls, and frequently the self-righteousness of Hunters.

>>49895226

Ok, so, the guy wrote a few TV shows and web dramas for Scandinavian TV. He's been pretty open that they're all WoD fanfiction, just slightly changed to prevent legal issues. Like this dude is into WoD in a MAJOR way, there's no doubt about that.

>>49895299
Regular people.
Then, chronicles of darkness or world of darkness?

>>49895347
I prefer CoD myself, and I'd generally recommend it to new players since there's fewer potential hiccups.

>>49895358
>>49895334
Thanks! This helps a lot.

>>49895347
If you're playing regular people, then certainly Chronicles of Darkness.
All you'll need is the core book.
It has all the info and so forth.

Try not to get dissuaded by the social rules, conditions, and the "beats" experience system. I was originally put off, but I came to like them.

>>49895226
"The Conspiracy for Good: London 2010" and "Sanningen om Marika" (and possibly "The Spiral") were deliberately written in such a way that they nestled into oWoD fluff without contradiction.

Sorry, didn't everyone here know Elricsson had a background in multimedia? Specifically, TV shows with Game tie-in content?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2995036/

>>49894672
Free to play MMO probably takes less work than a high budget TV series.

>>49894923
>>49894936
If Changeling comes out we'll have super Christmas

>>49894948
He wept when he read Wraith. Don't you want that? He'll make it everything you loved.
No he won't.

>>49894989
>and horrific personal loss.
Expect Wraith to be even more depressing.

>>49895347
If you do prefer oWoD, have your players first be Mortals, then become Ghouls, then Kindred. It's the best way.

>>49895397
>high budget TV series
If it's a Vampire TV series (and you fucking know it will be) then I can certainly see ways of doing it on a quite low budget.

>>49895009
What?

>>49895168
What?
>>49895260
Vampire: the Requiem Second Edition. Full stop.

>>49895397

I don't think I can handle super Christmas, I would die of joy.

>>49895390

I did, which was why I was very intrigued by the whole idea. In a lot of ways, the dude is Living The Dream, and I'd certainly love to be in a position like his, making games and TV shows and stuff. Kind of a shame that things are already looking shaky from the gate.

>>49895390
>>49895338
Links?

>>49895441
I meant why Defiance the shitty MMO was going longer than Defiance the praised Syfy series.

>>49895442
Oh dear, getting problematic triggers from your unchecked privilege about "solved" interstitial intersectionality?

>>49895467
>Links?
Bitch please, this is 2016. Look on netflix or something, the torrentsphere is dying. Anything I could find right now, you could too - through google. Get off yo lazy good fo nothing ass and WEBCRAWL, nigredo!

>>49895486
When did Twitter shitposting bots get 4chan access?

>>49895516
The only thing The Conspiracy For Good turns up is some ARG for Heroes. I'm not sure how that could tie in to oWoD.

>>49895516

It's also not just TV, it's also part ARG. You'll never get the full effect even if you track down all the pieces, because stuff like that is all about the doing, not just the watching. A well executed WoD TV show could do wonders with that.

>>49895567
>The only thing The Conspiracy For Good turns up is some ARG for Heroes.
I dunno what to tell you, check his IMDB link and try searching with the years the show was made a part of your search string. Failing that, translate the title into Scandinavian.

This was a *very* local show, man. The chances of it getting capped and then released are 1 in 200 or so. Even if you find it, the multimedia aspects may no longer be hosted.

>>49895567

That's it, that's what you're getting. Tim Kring made the Conspiracy for Good as part of the Nokia series of ARG/TV show hybrids. Ericsson was the creative director behind it, and it very subtly takes place in the World of Darkness.

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should I do one with the bloodspunk quote?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN590e-fopc here's a summary video of Conspiracy for Good, if it helps.

>>49895006
depends on werewolf
they can make it miss, they can make it blow up,, they can make it fall apart into hundreds of pieces with a word
they can take a shot
one of the writers had a rahu up against a battle tank and win
but rahu can get like 30+ health

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>>49895618
How.
Same with The Problem With Marika.
How do these shows take place in the World of Darkness other than "they take place in the real world"?

>>49895632
Use this one

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>>49894137
Jesus fucking Christ.

Remember those disclaimers that they used to have in the splats?

The ones that said "It's just a game. You're not a vampire"?

This is the guy that they were talking about. I mean, granted, his enthusiasm is infectious and he's probably one of the guys who kept the lights on during the nWoD years but take some fucking Valium, man.

>>49894835
>>49894835
>Dat post

Be happy if I don't get repeatedly insulted. Got it.

>>49896210
>This is the guy that they were talking about.
Eh, his entire job is selling the game line.
If being loony sells books, then it's his job to do it.

It aint the 90s any more. You've got to push the product HARD to get it to move.

>>49896099

The bad guy corp in Conspiracy for Good is most likely a Endron sub-company and the Conspiracy for Good itself is almost certainly a Changeling influenced organization. It's all a gambit to stave off Eternal Winter, if we look at it through that lens.

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>>49896099
Behold. Fucking rolled a 10 on my Crafts check right thar.

>>49896210
>Remember those disclaimers that they used to have in the splats?
>The ones that said "It's just a game. You're not a vampire"?
>This is the guy that they were talking about.
Actually it was this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ferrell

>Be happy if I don't get repeatedly insulted. Got it.
I have no problems with the politics.
But for anyone who thinks the OPP sidebars are "demeaning" and "heavy handed" and "criticizing anyone who thinks differently"
Well...

>>49896366
A ten is a bit too much credit. I feel like it could be formatted better, but it's not like you've got much to work with. The other quote was better, too.

>>49896099
>How do these shows take place in the World of Darkness other than "they take place in the real world"?
Nothing in it directly contradicts established oWoD canon, while at the same time it attempts to thematically echo ideas from 90's White Wolf. The idea is that it could happen in the oWoD, rather than it being a strictly oWoD show.

>>49896099
>>49896267

A fair few shows obviously take WoD and base their settings off varied interpretations of it. Look at Supernatural. It's a low-gothic Hunter/Demon hybrid game, which delves into the other splats, with enough tweaks to not be immediately obvious unless you are heavily invested in oWoD.

>>49896386
1) yes, you get the coconut, Rod Ferrell and his scooby doo gang of cross-country murderers and heamovores were what caused that specific freak-out, but let's not also forget a certain German Neo-nazi Satanist couple and a young Welsh kid that cut out an elderly woman's heart, around the same time.

2) I just think the sidebars are over-used and ugly as fuck. The text inside could have been comfortably accommodated elsewhere with decent editing.

3) Everyone's a critic. Still, making fun of Dracula is like difficulty 2 or something.

>>49895032
Aggravated Damage: Aggravated damage regenerates much
slower, closer to the speed of human wounds. Uratha heal one
point of aggravated damage every four days. Only silver and
supernatural powers (including Gifts, mage spells, and vampiric
Disciplines) can cause aggravated damage to Uratha directly.
Any source of harm that would cause aggravated damage to a
human, *including massive bodily devastation, only causes lethal
damage to Uratha*. As such, most unwitting attackers must do
enough lethal damage to cause it to “roll over” into aggravated
damage before it poses a real problem for werewolves.

They can just walk it off, particularly in Garu.

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>What ever they do....they at least can't fuck it up as much as By Night Studio decided to fuck up W:tA for their new LARP Version...

>Silverfangs fully aligned with the Weaver, Male Blackfuries, Rage that decreases in your breed form, no more middle Umbra, gifts that go in levels like Vampire Disciplines, the effects of Rage on humans toned down enough so the average Garou can hold down a 9 to 5 if they want..and all kinds of other things that take a giant shit on 20+ years of canon!

> Oh yeah, and people can now be bitten by a Garou and changed into a Garou from it WEEE!!!

Dear Christ.... I'd heard By Night Studios made some awful shit, but this takes the whole fucking cake, doesn't it?

>>49894137
>werewolves will be about Garou Nation internal shit and the planet is still dying;
So the least interesting possible angle?

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>>49896408
Supernatural is nothing like World of Darkness, though. It's far more Buffy.

You could argue that Dresden Files is clearly inspired by Mage: the Ascension, though only loosely, and it's clearly more fitting for Awakening (which wasn't out when the earliest books were written). There is some WoD influence in that one, at least.

I don't think there are many shows out there inspired by World of Darkness. There are shows that have the same inspirations as World of Darkness (primarily Vampire Chronicles)

>>49896499
>The text inside could have been comfortably accommodated elsewhere with decent editing.
I don't mind the sidebars and I see the use for them, but yes, this. Paizo if nothing else can be said to do representation well. I don't even think they have sidebars like that, but they're without a doubt the most queer friendly company, especially in terms of representation.
That said, they also show why sidebars explicitly spelling things out can be useful, considering people expressed confusion over an NPC that was a comical crossdresser played for laughs in her first appearance and then written to be much less asinine by an actual transwoman (pic related). The forums were filled with people whining and essentially saying they were going to portray her for comedy regardless.
You see it a lot that people refuse to acknowledge the evidence that characters are nonbinary or queer, to the point that writers have to explicitly say it on twitter.

So, I mean, I can see the purpose for them. If nothing else, when someone says "games aren't for your demographic", there's something to point at and say "go fuck yourself".

>>49896781
I thought that thumbnail showed David Hasselhoff singing to a laptop on the hood of KITT.

Most of those things don't piss me off. But then again, I prefer Forsaken, so "Rage isn't fucking stupid" and "Black Furies aren't a 70s feminist stereotype" don't bother me.

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>Oh yeah, and people can now be bitten by a Garou and changed into a Garou from it WEEE!!!

This I can actually see. For fans of the traditional movie werewolf, raised on them and getting into WoD, playing as an odd blend of druid/gypsy whose a Garou from birth is more than a little off putting at first for some. I know it was for me.

It also makes an impossibility the storyline of a life destroyed by the 'curse' and learning to live with it through the lens of someone who had until then lived the 9-to-5 style normie existence, or the idea of slowly grown trust between this new wolf and existing packs, or the potential strife between 'born' wolves and 'made' wolves.

I know there are ways to have these sort of stories, but the the WtF fluff was always more compelling to read for me than actually play.

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>>49896781
>mfw
I blame the public school system.

>>49896859

Thing is, they kind of half-assed the whole bite thing. Biting only increases a chance of becoming a Werewolf or becoming Kinfolk. The only time bite-to-werewolf becomes a thing is if they were Kinfolk to begin with. You can tell they kind of ran into a corner with it because if it was always guaranteed, the Black Spiral Dancers would have overrun the earth by now.

>>49896842
No one cares.

>>49896842
>Supernatural is nothing like World of Darkness, though. It's far more Buffy.

Seriously? It's both, but far more akin to World of Darkness in tone, and theme. I could list all the ways, starting with both Angels and Demons using human vessels, to season five basically being a Time of Judgement scenario. I guess we can agree to disagree, if you don't see it.

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>>49896781
>The Apocaplyse has happened....sorta.... and the result is things like... the Garou Nation deciding to split into two diamretically opposed groups..

>The Concordant of Stars: Who are the clear 'Good guy' faction, led by the Shadowlords and which also have Fera members...they have openly allied with the Weaver...

>The Sanctum of Gaia: The LoL why would anyone want to play them? group...which is dedicated to a strict return of the old ways...return of the Impergium, rejection of Weaver Technology, rejection of any Fera help...basically the stupidest ideas of the stupidest ideas...Oh yeah and led by the Silver Fangs of course, since we need the Shadow Edge Lords to be the real Heroic Leaders...

>Also, Werewolf Genes are a thing again...where as previous werewolf has said "There isn't really such a thing as a werewolf gene...that's silly and stupid, it's more spiritual" this Larp has decided the werewolf gene is totes real and it's recessive....or something....the writers decided not to look to hard into actual biology but wanted a real werewolf gene.... also apparently Gaia is causing some people to mutate and have the werewolf gene now to make up for the lower Garou population in the age of apocalpyse...

>Oh yeah....and if you have the recessive gene...and a werewolf bites you...there's a chance it will activate the gene and make you turn into a werewolf....so yaknow, we have bitten werewolves now..

>Why the hell the Garou don't just go around biting all of their kinfolk after a certain age is beyond me, with this being the case..

(cont.)

Obligatory begging for the updated Mage 2e PDF with the errata...

>>49896781

More By Night insanity. Apparently the changes they wrought in V:tM were comparatively minor but it was still enough for the entire One World By Night group to ignore them.

>When it comes to the tribes, it's more minor irritations that pop up...Like making the Get of Fenris into Vikings...despite the fact while technically being "Norse" they're not beholden to the Norse Pantheon....they are the children of Fenris...the wolf who is the enemy of the Aesir...but now it's all about Thor and Odin and all that...

>The Black Furies have decided that some dudes are allowed in, and anyone whose genderqueer is happy to join in too now..

>The BoneGnawers are looked down on for being "Common", not because they decide to live in cities like the Glasswalkers and seem to prefer it...No it's totes cause their blue collar...

>>49896900
Shhh now. Grown ups are speaking.

So...I'm not following this whole thing with One World of Darkness...but will Hunter get another edition?

>>49897106
We don't know. It was ominously left out of the One World of Darkness seminars. The new setting might not have room for them, especially as they are a more modern addition to the oWoD and Elricsson has a hard on for 1e everything. If you get Hunters, you may have to prepare for bog standard Mortals, optional Numina.

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>>49895397
When is Wraith20 coming out again? A friend asked...a close one.
>>49896859
>>49896859
This is true, I always thought it odd that the 'You get bitten and turned into a monster' thing taken out of Werewolf and put into Ratkin instead of all places, I mean the Rats were my favorite aspect of the original Werewolf, but still, odd.
>>49896842
>inspired by World of Darkness
I always thought the Hotline Miami series fit the feeling of WoD pretty well...

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Ever notice that all the great White Wolf oWoD books like Chicago By Night were before Revised Edition ruined everything with its pretentious metaplot and Justin Achilli's massive butthurt over the fact that people were actually having fun playing oWoD instead of wangsting in boring personal horror games?

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>>49893435
This can't be real, canon fiction.

It reads like a bad fan-wank. It's written like it's for housewives in their mid-to-late 40's whose husbands don't get it up for them anymore.

>full ass-rape stiffness
No. Nevermind. It's even worse than that.

There's no way this shit is canon. But then I remember the horrifying rape-fest the Exalted re-release was going to be like and I sigh and turn away.

>>49897076
Yeah, rpg.net is that way.

>>49897301
Better get going, then.
>full ass-rape stiffness

>>49897207

I'm dying to do a Hotline Requiem game that uses some of the really nasty optional rules in Danse Macabre.

>>49897266
>implying Revised was bad
>implying personal horror is bad

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Assrape: the Stiffening

>A Storytelling game of personal anal discomfort

We live in a World of Sodomy. Anal-Punk sensibilties dictate fashion, even as immortal being chock-full of blood-spunk plot and play their endless games in a neverending Butt-Jyhad.

>Buggery we are lest Buggery we become

But rumours persist of the Analdiluvians, who are destined to rise and slake their lusts on our own precious rectums. Is the Time of Fudgement upon us?

>>49897266
Revised had some awesome books but yeah, the metaplot was way too heavy-handed. I feel sorry for anyone making the transition who was running, say, a Tremere Antitribu and their ST was like "LOL Your character went to Mexico City and was never heard from again."

That being the case, I'm of two minds. Revised had better editorial control and was more cohesive. I do like how the Camarilla/Sabbat conflict went from a cold war to a hot one. 2e had that amateur charm and youthful brilliance.

My favorite Masquerade setting book is still Dark Colony. It's the book that covers all of New England and gives you a generous overview of the entire region. Then, they layer on a generous helping of New England horror, covens of witches, depraved Sabbat in the hinterlands. Meanwhile, on the Camarilla and Anarch side, the revolutionary War never ended and you have old, low generation vamps trying to reassert control over the princes and kindred of the area and they're using their own Childer to do it. This is a BRILLIANT concept for a setting. Unfortunately, it's clumsily executed, hasn't aged well and needs an editor's eye. Something that WWGS always had problems with.

>>49897439

Revised deserves credit for making Ascension a much, much better game. I know a ton of old fans hate how radical the shift was, but I'd sooner see the more grounded stories done in Revised than having airship battles with alien spirits and space marines in Jupiter's orbit.

>>49897470
>I'd sooner see the more grounded stories done in Revised than having airship battles with alien spirits and space marines in Jupiter's orbit.

I am your diametric opposite, my friend. I felt like if I wanted to have grounded street stories about Magick I'd just run a Sorcerer campaign. Part of what Mage unique was the High Umbra, Garou never went there, nor Wraiths, nor Mummies. It allowed for stories where anything was possible, and allowed whole stories to blow off steam, after particularly brutal or unsettling storylines. What is there in Revised for that? The Avatar Storm was bullshit. All those Archmages, all those dots in Time, and not one person sensed the coming of what was basically a tsunami of spiritual razor blades? Get fucked, Achilli.

>>49896997
In what way?
I mean, the vampires especially are completely different, and other than using human vessels, there's no real comparison to Fallen.

>>49897013
>>Also, Werewolf Genes are a thing again...where as previous werewolf has said "There isn't really such a thing as a werewolf gene...that's silly and stupid, it's more spiritual" this Larp has decided the werewolf gene is totes real and it's recessive....or something....the writers decided not to look to hard into actual biology but wanted a real werewolf gene.... also apparently Gaia is causing some people to mutate and have the werewolf gene now to make up for the lower Garou population in the age of apocalpyse...
Why is this a problem? The way werewolves worked was already stupid in oWoD.

In fact, all of this sounds like it makes Apocalypse into a less stupid game (by making it more like Forsaken).

>>49897207
>I always thought the Hotline Miami series fit the feeling of WoD pretty well...
Yeah, but not intentionally.

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>>49897470
Again, I'm of two minds. Revised made some needed changes, but there is something called too much of a good thing. 2e Mage always had this great vibe of optimism beneath all of the grime but it could be too far removed from the real world. Mage revised was all like "Everyone lost the central conflict of the game." You could still do interesting things with it, like looking for all of the deserted sanctums of the masters for their secrets and knowledge. There was gold to be mined there but it still felt heavy handed. I would have been much happier if they had focused it back onto Earth and kept the vibe of the Ascension War. However, it also gave us some of the most ridiculously good Ascension supplements ever.
>pic related

>>49897266
Go away, Camilla.

Also, did anyone know that Justin Achilli is working with Ubisoft on a Werewolf VR game?
Werewolf the party game. You know, Mafia.
It looks pretty cool.

>>49897523
I feel that if you're doing an urban fantasy horror game, setting most of it in somewhere that isn't the real world when your game's elevator pitch is "our world, but darker" is a mistake.
There are fantasy games that handle ridiculous over the top magical airship bullshit battles much better.

>>49897547
Cool art. Looks like a Galatea's disfigurements.

>>49897525
>Why is this a problem? The way werewolves worked was already stupid in oWoD.

Being Garou or Fera was a spiritual affliction, not a physical one. The moment it becomes a physical affliction anyone with an understanding of basic genetics is going to call out scientific plotholes like an NASA intern watching Armageddon.

To make matters worse, if all it takes is to be bitten by a werewolf to transform you into one, what's stopping the Black Spiral Dancers from munching on an entire town overnight, triggering "Zombie Holocaust; Crazed Cannibal Werewolf Edition" and wiping out or converting half the country before the Army get the idea to use napalm?

Still, it's not like White Wolf ever playtested the final version of rules that went to print, is it?

>>49897598
>what's stopping the Black Spiral Dancers from munching on an entire town overnight, triggering "Zombie Holocaust; Crazed Cannibal Werewolf Edition" and wiping out or converting half the country before the Army get the idea to use napalm?
the garou munching two entire towns overnight and setting them to kill the other werewolves

>>49897637
But you see how that could get kind of stupid. It also undoes the central conceit that the Garou were dying due to their own inborn flaws. It takes away that greek tragedy element.

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>>49897563
>I feel that if you're doing an urban fantasy horror game, setting most of it in somewhere that isn't the real world when your game's elevator pitch is "our world, but darker" is a mistake.

Okay. I - and my players - felt that we needed a palate cleanser after a Wraith campaign that was confronting, dreary, depressing, and not in the least bit fun. We were drawn to Mage by the idea we could do anything with it, stories about myths and dreams, stories echoing old forgotten folk tales... stories that didn't leave black hair dye stains on the carpet. We dropped the horror element as a major part of the game - we already had a long running Masquerade campaign for that - and just had fun.

Remember fun? That thing people used to play oWoD for before it became about making an artistic cathartic statement about confronting and contextualising our own inner darkness and morality systems when confronted with a fictional example of "full assrape stiffness"?

>>49897637
Okay, so now we have three towns infested with Werewolves, and the media can't get close without losing their minds. How long before this engulfs a city and Putin just hammers the nuke button before it leaves the continental USA?

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>>49897681
>That thing people used to play oWoD for before it became about making an artistic cathartic statement about confronting and contextualising our own inner darkness and morality systems when confronted with a fictional example of "full assrape stiffness"?

That was always there. People also played it for fun despite that and WWGS acknowledged that more than once.
>pic, again, related.

>>49897598
>Being Garou or Fera was a spiritual affliction, not a physical one. The moment it becomes a physical affliction anyone with an understanding of basic genetics is going to call out scientific plotholes like an NASA intern watching Armageddon.
You mean like they already did because one book gave actual mechanics for pregnancies and Garou birth? I don't have it on hand because I never saved it, but someone did the math. This wasn't from By Night Studios, it was from some Apocalypse book

Forsaken has "werewolf genetics" and it doesn't cause any problems. Nevermind that Apocalypse had plenty of families of Werewolves. And Kinfolk are already genetic, so you might as well argue that the whole world should be Kin

>To make matters worse, if all it takes is to be bitten by a werewolf to transform you into one, what's stopping the Black Spiral Dancers from munching on an entire town overnight
Have you even read what you're talking about?
I mean, I haven't, but from what I can tell, it's not a sure thing and werewolf bites are already not the sort of thing you survive in the first place.

>>49897672
So does literally most of Apocalypse
For fucks sake half the game is about how you should go fuck people for Gaia. The game was all about breeding fetishism (yet for some strange reason fucking other werewolves was bad)

>>49897727
>>49897681
What I find fun and what you find fun are not the same. I find depressing, gritty games cathartic

But you sort of juked passed my question
There are already games that do that with better mechanics and no silly ties to the World of Darkness to begin with. There are better games that don't ruin the tone of the dark and depressing things
If you want fun and light hearted, why play a WoD game at all? Why not play something else for your pallet cleanser

If you're just going to ditch the themes and mood and some of the mechanics of the game to play something "fun" like a vampire Mafia anime game, then it shouldn't really bother you

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>>49897727
>That was always there. People also played it for fun despite that and WWGS acknowledged that more than once.

And yet, there are didactic lectures in some books about what moods and elements of humour are "appropriate", given an ostentatious quantity of moody navel-gazing. Writers cluck their tongues over "superheros with capes," ignoring that if a large quantity of their fans are doing that with the game, that's obviously what they want from it. Telling me what I can and can't do with my own gaming group, with a book I paid money for and then spent time figuring out how to make workable is precious at best, annoying at standard and openly patronising at worst.

Some writers obviously understood, as miss Penny Dreadful there attests, but holy shit, do you really think you could run Destiny's Price with the mood as it's presented?

>everyone who lives in the city is a corrupt drug dealer, crooked cop or diseased sex worker
>everyone is armed
>to be ethnic is to belong to a gang culture
>vanilla sex is soooooo 1982

That's some Watchmen level shit, pal. I half expected a page instructing me that if the people in the streets looked up and yelled "Save us!" I'd automatically look down and whisper "no" unless I passed a Humanity check.

>>49898103
>ignoring that if a large quantity of their fans are doing that with the game, that's obviously what they want from it
Or maybe that's not the game the writers want to write.
Have you ever had your friends tell you to ST a game that you didn't want to run?

If you're playing a game, you can do whatever you want. But don't act like the writers should make the game you want instead of the one they want.

I think that Dracula is a fucking tool and he's assuming his way of doing things is going to be the best, but if he really wants to make that game that's his prerogative.

I think maybe you're ignoring the fact that a large amount of their fans DID want something dark and grim and edgy. That' why they did so well. They stood out against the more four colour D&D or the overwhelming GURPS.

>>49897911
Fuck off, Aspel.

>>49898260
>I half expected a page instructing me that if the people in the streets looked up and yelled "Save us!" I'd automatically look down and whisper "no" unless I passed a Humanity check.
I failed my Humanity check.

>>49893247

>"What does this word "Fun" mean anyways?"

/v/, what are you doing here?

>>49894137

No love for the Vigil?

>>49898335
Vigil is Chronicles, not World.

>>49897911
>You mean like they already did because one book gave actual mechanics for pregnancies and Garou birth?

I don't recall ever seeing that. I do recall there being some information published on Metis pregnancies around the Year of Revelations or so, what with the mother spending the last trimester in Crinos and birthing a not-so-tiny Crinos-form newborn, but there was nothing in there that seemed particularly odious. In fact, it answered some long-standing questions about Metis and their lives.
>Have you even read what you're talking about?
It's this wishy-washy rule that says being bitten gives a chance to turn humans into Kinfolk, or Kinfolk into Garou. Okay, so not many people get a chance to survive when a Red Talon goes completely wolfshit, but I'm talking about someone deliberately and with as much control as can be mustered deliberately infecting as many people as they can, which if you've read any of the Apocalypse stuff, you would know isn't beyond the strategies and tactics of the BSD. Even if the bite only has a 10% chance of succeeding, you do the math on what happens if they try this trick on a small town of 120,000 people. Goodbye Garou Nation....
Why the fuck would I argue the whole world should be kin? And why does Forsaken even enter into this when it's a completely separate gameline, with very different werewolves? You is confused.

>so does literally most of Apocalypse
Does it? Give me the page numbers so I can look up the references.
>For fucks sake half the game is about how you should go fuck people for Gaia.
Really? "half the game"? that doesn't seem to leave much room for the Umbra, the Spirits, the Triat, the Fera, the Garou Nation's internal problems, interpersonal relationships between pack members, the conflict of peer support and accolades in exchange for supporting a cryptofascist terrorist nation, anxiety about the End of the World... and that's before we even discuss environmentalism!

You don't argue facts very well.

>>49898355

Oh, I forgot. I almost forgot the reckoning and how underwhelming it was.

>>49898260
Please, let's not call out Aspel. He doesn't like being called out because it's not his fault we don't like him. And he'd put on a trip but then we'd be able to block him more easily.
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>>49897911
>If you want fun and light hearted, why play a WoD game at all?
Because that's how Mage 2e came across.

Here you are, a guy who read Apocalypse and got so hung up on a subtext about players shagging timber wolves that you think it comprises half the game, and you want to bitch at ME for tweaking the mood? Maybe before you remove the speck from my eye you should do something about the giant sequoia growing in the corner of yours....

>>49897146

Good, the weird powers from nowhere shit was boring as hell.

Just give me humans with guns, some stolen magic trinkets and guts againist the darkness.

>>49898506

Funnily enough, the Cainite Heresy are basically the Imbued with a more overtly sinister tone.

>>49898257
>Have you ever had your friends tell you to ST a game that you didn't want to run?
The opposite - I've proposed various campaigns and received zero interest. If I'd pressed ahead no-one would have showed up. Pragmatism rules here - you need to give the players what they're looking for. Insisting about "high art" is fucking asinine. This is a hobby. People do this for fun.
> ...don't act like the writers should make the game you want instead of the one they want.

Wow, not the sharpest klaive in the sept... Listen, if the writers press ahead and make a game that shits all over 20 years of established canon, I'm just not going to buy it. Neither are a lot of other people. That means WW gets no money. That means they collapse and Paradox Interactive become copyright squatters on the IP for all of eternity.

Explain to me how it's not in the best interests of White Wolf, the players, the graphic artists and the writers for us to make our displeasure - and what we want to pay money for - known very, very loudly? Should they proudly ignore all customer feedback, like Games Workshop did? That worked out so very well for them... oh wait.

>I think maybe you're ignoring the fact that a large amount of their fans DID want something dark and grim and edgy.

All dark, all grim and all edges = players quitting because it's no longer fun. Something has to break up the gloom. I don't play RPG so I can make myself cry to Linkin Park, cut myself to Stabbing Westward and then pass out drunk to Nick Cave. That shit is not healthy.

Consider Sons of Anarchy. It had hard, gritty, in your face moments. At the same time, there was often moments of humour and humanity, even between characters that had few redeeming features. It made it mature and reasonable.

>>49893470
they stated that opp will maintain cofd lcencing but will lose the owod and the 20th anniversary lines will end

>>49894549
shane was hired on full time with ww and moved to sweden

>>49898566
>ut will lose the owod and the 20th anniversary lines will end

They've said no such thing. New White Wolf consider X20 the fourth edition of oWoD and has let them go on to Kickstart several more oWoD books since the change of hands.

>>49898543

And I can kind of accept that in that context because it's pretty clear that it's a super shady source of power and they use it well aware of how stupid it might be and blow in their faces.

Making your whole game about humans outsmarting/outsurviving the monsters just because some other unknown source decided to "be merciful" and help the humans undermine the whole point of struggling.

Letting a few conspiracies have dubious powers is ok when the whole setting ISN'T based on just accepting those and hoping things work out well.

The usual hunter should be paranoid towards any type of easy new way to kill monsters coming from unknown sources.

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>>49898385
>Reckoning
You mean Solar Exalted Lite, yes. I never bothered with them, the Buffy-wannabe art fucking sickened me. I remember one picture that literally (not figuratively, Aspel) showed a blonde teenager in gym pants holding stakes in a graveyard. The caption mentioned "kicking undead @$$". It completely contradicted the entire stated premise; that the Hunters were ordinary people who didn't really know what the fuck was going on, got given shitty powers and were hopelessly outgunned by the Supernaturals.

It all felt so forced, especially when there were already excellent resources like Hunters Hunted and Project Twilight that could have used a new lick of paint.

>>49897062
owbn ignores things because they dont want to reset too many people are attached to,their paper dicks and their plots wouldn't line up anyway.

>>49898652

They kept a sisterhood compact on Vigil, about a group of sorority girls that tried to keep vampires out of colleges, but they made it pretty clear that they didn't have much in the ways of powers and resources.

>>49897062
Do you have a copy of the book,to share? I am morbidly curious.

>>49898638
There was a statement by OPP that said when the 5th edition drops 20x editions will,stop and OPP wont be doing oWoD after tjat.

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When is the Demon 20th due, or more likely, possible? Has each of the 20th editions gone to Kickstarter dead on the anniversary, or is it more for poetic license?

I've missed the rest so far, but I really want to support (and get a cheaper copy of) Demon is they do it.

>>49898705
There's a longer history of betrayal, there. Before they were By Night Studios, they were the Camarilla, the "official" WW LARP. They ran a highly regimented organisation, where fagging and nepotism allowed you to rise to the top of the heap and receive up to 160 freebies on your chargens, as well as exclusive action to level 5 gifts, coveted Merits or maxxed out Disciplines (standard XP was 8 points a game). There were constant updates on new rules, errata, new outlawed combinations etc. OWBN, in contrast, was a loose confederacy of independent games. Players could travel around from Berlin to Boston in both orgs, and experience continuity for their character, although with OWBN always a chance the new town doesn't support Abominations or Kiasyd or whatever exotic shit you had.

At the time OWBN players used to pay a small amount per session - $5USD was average - to pay for venue, props, handouts and snacks. WW screwed the pooch by trying to destroy every unsold copy of Laws of the Night etc. to force players onto the NWoD, trying to force everyone paying for a game to join Camarilla and worse, pay $25 just for membership dues, to "protect their intellectual property". The decision was a disaster, only reversed after massive outcry, but the damage ran too deep. Camarilla lost too many players, and noobs were quickly bullied away from cliques of powerful, established players. The end finally came when it was losing so much money WW cut ties. Camarilla briefly became "Midnight Dance" before becoming "By Night Studios", a deliberate effort to conflate organisations.

All this explains why, when Elricsson talks about tackling "inappropriate behaviour" and "protecting the IP" OWBN look visibly nervous.

Never forget that LARPers see themselves as the true Scions of the White Wolf legacy, the true guardians of what is right and pure. You should all be worried they've got creative control.

>>49898846
>when is the 20th Anniversary of a game released in 2002 coming out?

>>49898714
Is it wrong that I kind of feel that hunter conspires would make great Outside Factions in other splats?

>>49898722
having trouble chasing a full copy, but this is the rules treatment that sparked the initial shitstorm;

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/169846/Minds-Eye-Theatre-Werewolf-The-Apocalypse-Gamma-Slice-Playtest-Rules

>Sorry Billy Blake, why buy the video when I can watch the informercial for free?

>>49898879
>You should all be worried they've got creative control.
Except no one really gives a shit about World of Darkness anymore.

>>49898387
Takes a big man to post private logs from a chat room just to try and shit on someone. You have to be 18 or older to be on this site.

>>49898941
>Except no one really gives a shit about World of Darkness anymore.

HAHAHA yeah, that's why this thread has 40 unique posters and there's a new /wodg/ every two days. You're adorable :)

>>49898911

Hey, Jakki. I'm almost exclusively an oWoD player but is there a Tzimisce/Vicissitude equivalent in Requiem? I am genuinely curious because they were my favorite Dark Ages clan but I never liked Sabbat games.

>>49898879
You're conflating two separate things there, man. The group that is now the MInd's Eye Society used to be the 'official' LARP insofar as they were directly supported by old WW. They're now a licensed fan club, much like Underground Theatre and a ocuple of other troupes. OWbN has existed for a long time, separately, though I admit my joining of the Cam in 2006 comes long after the OWbN was a thing. As the Cam/MES dropped OWoD as a venue after NWoD came out, OWbN was still the big OWoD gaming group. They are a fan club and LARP organization, not a publisher or licensee.

I am also tangentally part of the OWbN (at least by proxy), and a lot of their discussions about BNS' game didn't come down to 'oh god this plot is shitty,' it came down to unwillingness to change mechanics and unwillingness to reset some 20-odd years of their own LARP history, which is untenable and incompatible with anything else.

By Night Studios is a publisher, made up of a bunch of people, some of whom are/were LARPers in the various organizations. They license the LARP rules and publish them as a licensee of WW.

Two different entities and organizations that share some membership.

>>49898972
And any interest in World of Darkness is token nostalgiafaggotry.

Chronicles is the one people come to the thread for.

>>49898927

Well, they should be in the Chronicles of Darkness, since they went out of their ways to make these new series cross-over friendly.

The Barrett comission is a compact made out of politicians and bureaucrats whose mission is to undermine other supernatural beings from interfering with human politics, mostly vampires.

The Cheiron Group conspiracy is a pharmaceutical/tech conglomerate that specializes in hunting supernatural beings, chopping them and figuring out ways to turn their powers in military grade medicine and enhancements.

Several groups ripe for the taking if you want to make your supernatural games seem a bit more challenging, by making the humans a bit more hard to just exploit.

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>>49898257
>Or maybe that's not the game the writers want to write.

Then they can just fuck right the hell off, and i'm going to run it however the fuck I want. The artist died a long time ago, deal with it. That sort of sanctimoniousness was always the worst part of WWGS.

>I think maybe you're ignoring the fact that a large amount of their fans DID want something dark and grim and edgy.

Yeah, and an equally large, undefinable amount don't go throwing around generalities that mean nothing. The setting doesn't need to be this place of unrelenting darkness where everywhere is awful and everyone is terrible. That sounds like a Frank Miller stories and those suck dick.

>>49898879
>Never forget that LARPers see themselves as the true Scions of the White Wolf legacy, the true guardians of what is right and pure. You should all be worried they've got creative control.

They're terrible too, they hang up on the parts of the game I care least about, turning every group into a den of vipers socially that start to miss the fact that they're not fucking Vampires. Camarilla, not even once.

>>49898983

Bless you for understanding that Dark Ages is the best version of Masquerade.

There's a bloodline called the Norvegi that have totally not Vicissitude, you'd probably like them. You could also port the Tzimisce to Requiem as a crazy Ventrue bloodline pretty easily.

>>49898951
>You have to be 18 or older to be on this site.
If that stupid piss-whore who can't tell the difference between the words "figuratively" and "literally" and argues just for the sake of reading his own posts is allowed to be here, even though he's clearly 12, then so can Screencap Guy. At least Screencap Guy is doing us all a service by showing us what that faithless cunt Aspel says behind our backs.

Also, I, too, remember those "Moderator" things. Gosh, they were great, weren't they? The way inflammatory, disruptive arseholes got the banhammer.... the sad fact is, someone could yell that they're in grade school on this board and no-one would be able to do shit.

>>49898983

There's one, but if you want the Tzimisce just use the vampire translation book that converts everything over.

>>49899012
In general I thought a lot of the alternate settings were amazing for their respective game lines, The Great War is perfect for race, and Dances with Werewolves was surprisingly compelling. The only one that really didn't jive with me was Sorcerer's Crusade, and that's only because I though the inversion of Mage's "Technology Bad, Unsupportable Beliefs Good!" was boring.

>>49898373
>Does it? Give me the page numbers so I can look up the references.
Perhaps I was ambiguous there. "Apocalypse is shitty and the themes are dumb and poorly handled".

I doubt even the BSD are going to go around killing entire towns of people in the hopes that some of them decide to dance the black spiral.

>Why the fuck would I argue the whole world should be kin?
The whole point of Kinfolk is that they're related to Werewolves. Hence "kinfolk".
>And why does Forsaken even enter into this when it's a completely separate gameline, with very different werewolves? You is confused.
Because all these changes you hate are similar to Forsaken.

>Really? "half the game"?
>You don't argue facts very well.
Figurative language is dead.

>>49898387
>Implying this is news

>>49898418
When I said "half" I was intentionally being dismissive. The fact that I need to explain that when the tone itself should have made it clear is troubling.
My point is that there are games that do what you want far better. Why would you want the game that sells itself as being about a dark and edgy modern (90s) world and then use it for something completely unrelated?

>>49898563
>Pragmatism rules here - you need to give the players what they're looking for. Insisting about "high art" is fucking asinine. This is a hobby. People do this for fun.
And clearly there ARE people who want a game that's "high art", because THAT IS WHAT THEY FIND FUN.

I'm not arguing that the game Dracula is pitching will be amazing. I'm pointing out that clearly SOMEONE was buying those oWoD books you're complaining about. I'm not saying you can't voice your displeasure. I mean, it's clearly a fucking stupid pile of shit. I'm not arguing otherwise.

But you're not complaining about the game Dracula wants to put out, you're complaining about the game that Dracula liked, back when the company was at its height. You're complaining that the game was gritty and edgy. But people wanted that.

>>49899067

If the Victorian Mage stretch goal wind up anything like the outline that's been floating around the internet for ages, then it'll justify all the wonkiness in Ascension by virtue of being dope as hell.

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>>49898997
>And any interest in World of Darkness is token nostalgiafaggotry.

ROFLOL, yeah, that's why the 20th Anniversary "nostalgia" edition of V:tM outsells CofD books every day of the week, right? Not because people are actually playing it or anything... But please, drop the word "faggot" some more and impress me with your sophisticated education and rhetoric skills :) You're a fucking crack-up.

>Chronicles is the one people come to the thread for.

HAHAHAHA oh wow, yeah pal, that's why it's a /CofD/ only thread, right? You priceless bastard, you're a laugh a fucking minute!

>pic related: it's your *adorable* attempts to be edgy that make me smile :)

>>49898997
Why do you care? They're both great RPG's with a shared lineage. You play the one that you like and I'll play the one that I like.

>>49898988
That is genuinely interesting information. It doesn't negate the shittiness of By Night Studios and their vision of Monte Cook's World of Darkness 2.0, however.

>>49899078
> "Apocalypse is shitty and the themes are dumb and poorly handled"
For. Real. Though. Every single one of the Tribes of the Garou are racist and societal caricatures to the point where it's almost embarrassing; at least in Vampire most of the Clans have moved beyond their ethnic background enough that they're not simply, "The Spanish Clan" or "The Italian Clan".
>I doubt even the BSD are going to go around killing entire towns of people
The BSDs in W20 are pretty cool in that they're not simply berserker murder machines, but they still suffer from the problem that I always saw in them, why aren't these people being investigated by the authorities? I mean, I get that it's the world of darkness, but seriously, you can't do the kind of shit that the BSDs regularly pull and not turn some heads, it's ridiculous how much humans are portrayed as having their heads completely in the sand in W:TA.

>>49899115
Eh. The vampire changes are hit or miss, but generally are okay. The updated 'and Gehenna petered out, but we couldn't deny it, and so the Camarilla's party line changed, the Setites and Giovanni banded together, and the Tremere fucked over the Gangrel to get them back in the Camarilla' is alright. I was just glad for cleaned-up mechanics, and some of the things they added/changed mechanically are cool.

I run a 30-40 person average game and, we ignore the setting changes for the most part (we've incorproated some, like a few of the new big NPCs like the Malkavian Justicar La Llorona, and the Independent Alliance), and it doesn't affect us.

I can see why people would be insane over the Apocalypse changes. Guess that makes me glad I'm not really a Werewolf fan.

>>49899012
Hmmm... not Vicissitudy enough. I need muh fleshwarpin', Neofeudalist, Scenery-Chewin' Slav Vamps.

>>49899030
Vampire Translation book? Que?

>>49898911
>narrows a few weeks to month or so window of a Kickstarter that won't be widely publicized outside a niche fandom down to a year.

Wow, thanks for the revelation, my eyes are opened. You were so helpful it's not at all likely you just relish chances to be a smug prick.

There was a reason that I asked if they usually Kickstart around their origin release month/week, or if it was more broad.

>>49899089
Victorian Mage seems spot-on, but speaking of alternate settings for Mage, Mage Noir for Awakening was fantastic, I ran a game set around the rise of Vegas and the rush to conquer the Supernal concept of the American Dream in the post-war boom. Noir was basically the force behind that game.

>>49898563
>Consider Sons of Anarchy. It had hard, gritty, in your face moments. At the same time, there was often moments of humour and humanity, even between characters that had few redeeming features. It made it mature and reasonable.
I don't watch Sons of Anarchy but please tell me more about the magical airship battles with alien spirits and space marines in Jupiter's orbit.

Moments of levity don't have to be things that are complete 180s in tone and presentation.

Again, I encourage you to voice your concerns to Dracula. But complaining about a point in the game's history and acting as if what you wanted was the same thing that everyone wanted is silly. Clearly other people did want the brooding bullshit.
Even if most of them were probably going to play magical alien airship battles in it anyway.

>>49898652
>(not figuratively, Aspel)
You want some fries with that salt?

>>49898714
The Maiden's Blood Sisterhood does have resources, though. They're backed by Alumni. Having a bunch of college educated backers is pretty useful, even if it's not the US government or an ancient conspiracy.

>>49898927
That's what they're for just as much as playing them directly.

>>49899102
>that's why the 20th Anniversary "nostalgia" edition of V:tM outsells CofD books every day of the week, right?
How do you know?
Also, most people do come to this thread for Chronicles.

>>49899179

White Wolf did a Vampire Translation Guide that brought all of the Clans and their signature Disciplines into 1e Requiem. All of the Big Three got those, and then Demon recently got one as well.

>>49899185

You asked when. All I was saying that whenever it is, it likely won't be before 2022.

>>49899102
>ROFLOL, yeah, that's why the 20th Anniversary "nostalgia" edition of V:tM outsells CofD books every day of the week, right?
Is that why it's still on the hottest sales page? Behind Mage, Werewolf Promethean and Demon? No wait it isn't. And the only people talking about it (anywhere) are fat old racists wishing they were young punks again.

>HAHAHAHA oh wow, yeah pal, that's why it's a /CofD/ only thread, right? You priceless bastard, you're a laugh a fucking minute!
It's for both editions because WoD can't keep a thread alive on its own.

>>49899179
They put out a like 40 page PDF about using Requiem in Masquerade, Masquerade in Requiem, and smashing the two together like Reese's. It's kind of full of common sense stuff, but if you are shit with making up pools and things, it's useful for that as it gives pools and mechanics for OWoD Disciplines in NWoD rules.

>>49899196

Mage Noir was the book that sold me on Awakening after strongly disliking it since release.

Have you ever read Last Call, by Tim Powers? It sounds exactly like what you're describing.

>>49899179
>Vampire Translation book? Que?
It's probably in the pastebin, it converts all the basic masquerade stuff to requiem stuff. Clans/disciplines/sects even story.

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>>49899161
>the Setites and Giovanni banded together
That makes absolutely no sense, and my beloved Incest-Necromancers would never do that.
>the Tremere fucked over the Gangrel to get them back in the Camarilla
This however is an amazing development.

>>49899137

Well, the highly ethnicallity of the Garou could be argued as an extension of their animalistic clan mindset.

Animals don't understand that they could achieve much more if organized, so they keep fighting amongst themselves. Vampires are always struggling to keep their humanity and trying to not call much attention to themselves, so they still understand the value of a societal organization and diplomatic relations, even with clans they would otherwise kill on sight.

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>>49899137
Stop injecting Reality into my game ANON. How else am I going to MrderFck A subway car full of people and get away with it?

>>49899211
>the only people talking about it (anywhere) are fat old racists wishing they were young punks again

Is this what they call aspel?

>>49899227

I've always just assumed that the Independent Clans have a portion of any large Camarilla domain to themselves. Call it the Independent's Concession and have some fun with it.

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>>49899179
>Vampire Translation book? Que?

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>>49899161
Fck that Magically contrived BullSht

>>49899206
>The Maiden's Blood Sisterhood does have resources, though. They're backed by Alumni. Having a bunch of college educated backers is pretty useful

Oh, no doubt, but I'm putting them in perspective when compared to other compacts/conspiracies when I make that claim.

When I think "Compacts with resources" I think Ashwood Abbey, The Bear Lodge, Null Mysteriis, etc.

But they are, by no means, the compact with the least amount of support.

>>49899219
No, but reading the synopsis is almost eerie in how similar they are; Tim Powers' sounds dope as fuck in that case. And Awakening took me a very, very long time to warm up to as well, it wasn't until the last few books in the game line (Left-Hand Path and Imperial Mysteries) as well as Seers of the Throne, I think it had to do a lot with the fact that I disagreed with the old Mage's inherently anti-science stance.
>>49899211
Watch yourself with Cleave brother, that Edge can even hurt us Hunters!

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>>49899006
>Then they can just fuck right the hell off, and i'm going to run it however the fuck I want. The artist died a long time ago, deal with it. That sort of sanctimoniousness was always the worst part of WWGS.
Then why do you care?
They can make whatever they want and you can run whatever you want.

>Yeah, and an equally large, undefinable amount don't go throwing around generalities that mean nothing
Clearly they weren't so bothered they stopped buying books.

>They're terrible too, they hang up on the parts of the game I care least about, turning every group into a den of vipers socially that start to miss the fact that they're not fucking Vampires. Camarilla, not even once.
I'm not going to disagree with you here, and they're often assholes who cliquishly bully newbies, but ultimately that's the game they want to run. So long as they *aren't* bullying newbies, there's no problem with them playing social backstabbing bullshit games. Just like as long as you don't act like the writers should only write what you want, it doesn't matter if you run airship space battles.

>>49899179
I made a Tzimisce homebrew. The actual clan write up was meh and I can't think of a better way to do it, but the powers are something I feel is pretty solid. Take a look.
I also couldn't think of a good Bane. "Sleep in your home soil" is dumb. But if you want to, go with that and cap their dicepools at Humanity if they don't.

>>49899026
Christ, how are you literally this salty?
I even showed you the definition of the word where it says that it's used informally.
Also, it's not faithless, and I've said it to your face. If people want me to trip, too fuckin' bad, I'm not going to because I want to make it difficult for anyone who gets up in arms.

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>>49899207
Muh dick.

Time for a Bratovitch inspired bloodline of Serbo-vamps.
>pic related

>>49899211
>Is that why it's still on the hottest sales page? Behind Mage, Werewolf Promethean and Demon? No wait it isn't. And the only people talking about it (anywhere) are fat old racists wishing they were young punks again.

Yo. r/Gamerghazi is that way.

>>49899215
My default choice is to use officially published materials whenever possible.

>>49899265
You're awesome.

>>49899227
Essentially the two banded together for a mutual benefit. the Giovanni got hit hard and Augustus was kidnapped, though not destroyed or diablerized yet. In this instance, they broke ties with the Camarilla and went to the Setites, offering to help them deal with the Sabbat's pogrom against the Followers of Set. Ultimately they ended up finding a common ground and cooperative reason with each other and, the alliance was formed. It's tenuous at best, but both sides use it to their advantage.

>>49899308

Tim Powers is all about occult history. He did one called Declare about Cold War espionage, lost cities of the Middle East, and djinn that was the first novel I've enjoyed in years.

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>>49899078
>"Apocalypse is shitty and the themes are dumb and poorly handled".
Oh, your opinion. I'm afraid you won't find that printed anywhere in the sourcebooks.
>I doubt even the BSD are going to go around killing entire towns of people in the hopes that some of them decide to dance the black spiral.
Yes, because you've proven yourself such an authority on Apocalypse with such cutting edge - dare I say, bleeding edge insight as (see above).
>The whole point of Kinfolk is that they're related to Werewolves. Hence "kinfolk".
Oh, you read the first chapter of the corebook, how sweet. That doesn't explain why I'd want the entire world to be kinfolk.
>Because all these changes you hate are similar to Forsaken.
"similar"? HOLY SHIT! If only we were discussing it in the first place...
>Figurative language is dead.
...says the man who uses it every five minutes.
>Why would you want the game that sells itself as being about a dark and edgy modern (90s) world and then use it for something completely unrelated?
Can you not read? I said it was because that's not what I got from the source material. I saw hope and endless wonder, even in the face of darkness. We ran with that. If you had an imagination or were capable of customising your own setting, you might understand.
>And clearly there ARE people who want a game that's "high art"
Great, they can play Nordic LARPS. Leave this stuff to the rest of us.
>SOMEONE was buying those oWoD books you're complaining about.
Poor fool, *I* was buying those books. There were no .pdf files in 1997. What makes you think I'm even arguing against that?
>But you're not complaining about the game Dracula wants to put out,
yes, yes I am. Nearly every post I have made in this thread has been about Dracula and his stupid bullshit. The only reason I bought up Mage was as an example of how we needed a break from having more Edge than fucking U2.

Can you just put on a trip so I can ignore you, please?

>>49899233
>Well, the highly ethnicallity of the Garou could be argued as an extension of their animalistic clan mindset.
I suppose that's true, and the Tribes that are repeatedly showing to be doing the best in the modern day (I'd say the Bone-Gnawers, Glasswalkers and Children of Gaia) are the ones who have largely tried to shed their ethnically charged backgrounds to give themselves more breeding stock. Which, really, that sentence creeps me out a bit.
>>49899234
Hey, I love the BSDs as much as the next Anon, but i'm just saying that they work better as an insidious, lurking threat rather than a blood-soaked howling one in the middle of times square. I think they could be well served by casting them more as more cultured and modern than their Garou cousins, as they're not weighed down by the same iron-bound traditions (or at least, not the same ones) and they seem more willing to adapt.
>>49899260
I always kind of ran them as hangers-on, the kind of folk that you don't invite to Elysium, but you don't have the Sheriff or the Scourge run out of town (unless they're a filthy Ravnos) since they usually have unique enough skills that they are always able to find *somebody* willing to extend their largess to them. I don't see like, a group of Giovanni in a city, I envision more like two with a bunch of ghoul retainers.

>>49899265
>>49899221
>>49899215
>>49899207
I feel like the VtR translation guide is one of those 1e things that just really feels like it wasn't thought through and was given no playtesting. It's basically just taking the exact oWoD rules and putting them in nWoD.
It feels like something that would have been released in early Requiem instead of late Requiem.

>>49899233
That's a good Watsonian explanation, but the problem is Doylist. The writers made the choice to use racial stereotypes.

>>49899137
The tribes being racist caricatures is so low on the pile of things I find stupid about Apocalypse.
Don't get me wrong, though, it's up there. Right along with "your ethnicity determines your entire outlook". Are there just no mixed race Werewolves or something? What if I'm part Native American part Irish? What clan am I? If I'm just a fucking mixed blood mutt--German granddad, Irish Granddad, Chinese grandma, Greek Grandma--am I just a dirty Bone Gnawer hobo? What about the groups that don't have ethnic origins, like Glasswalkers?
I don't even remember that shit coming up in the corebook I read, though it's been over half a decade at this point.

>>49899413

It doesn't look great to be seen hanging around with the Independents, but you likely have envoys at Elysium and hey, if you need someone killed or something smuggled, the Assamites and Setites are right there.

The Followers of Set bother me something fierce. Either make them the Followers of Apep or change their powers to not be snake-themed... or do what I do and make them a dumb branch of Clan Baali.

>>49899245
>Implying I like oWoD

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>>49899078
REMINDER!

Do not engage with ASPEL. He is beneath you.

If you positively identify ASPEL, do not argue him. Do not flatter him. Do not give him the acknowledgement that he so richly craves but does not deserve. Shun him and redirect him to >>>/d/

>>49899312
Wow. you figured out how table-top RPGs work, congrats.
>often assholes who cliquishly bully newbies
That's pretty much the issue full stop, and for a game based on community, there's not really much to do to salvage it unless this attitude changes.
>Just like as long as you don't act like the writers should only write what you want
I only resent it when the designers spend nearly a third to half of their GMing section telling me that i'm trying to run their game the wrong way and that I need to stop.
>>49899365
I guess my main issue with this idea is that the Setites don't really have a precedent of working with any one really, they've always been a Sect unto themselves, the most self-sufficient of any of the Clans and it just seems odd to me that they'd try to open their doors for another like that, even if it does mean cheap, indebted muscle.

>>49899438
>The tribes being racist caricatures is so low on the pile of things I find stupid about Apocalypse.
>Don't get me wrong, though, it's up there. Right along with "your ethnicity determines your entire outlook". Are there just no mixed race Werewolves or something? What if I'm part Native American part Irish? What clan am I? If I'm just a fucking mixed blood mutt--German granddad, Irish Granddad, Chinese grandma, Greek Grandma--am I just a dirty Bone Gnawer hobo? What about the groups that don't have ethnic origins, like Glasswalkers?
>I don't even remember that shit coming up in the corebook I read, though it's been over half a decade at this point.

It doesn't even remotely work like that. The Tribes are bound together by blood but also by their totem. If the totem accepts you, you're a member of that tribe. Full stop, end of discussion. For an example, the Black Furies shunt off all of their male Lupus and Homid cubs and most of the time, they get picked up by the Children of Gaia.

That being said, all of the totems have peccadilloes. For example, the Furies' totem, Pegasus will not accept a male homid or lupus. Griffon, totem of the Red Talons, will not accept a Homid. Fenris, on the other hand, will take anyone who can kick ass and fuck shit up. The Get are a pure meritocracy. They treat their metis like shit, which is to say that they treat them exactly like all of their other cubs. They punish the parents on the assumption that the child never did anything wrong. If you're half native you could still become a Wendigo... or perhaps a Fianna in your example. Wendigo will not anoint anyone without native blood but Uktena will. I suspect that Turtle, totem of the Croatoan would as well but we have no idea because they're dead.

And for everyone else, there's rat. He gives everyone a second chance. Anyone can become a Bone Gnawer.

>>49899292
Iunno, I wouldn't say The Bear Lodge or Null Mysteriis has resources, either. I bet the Loyalists probably do. Actually, who has the LEAST amount of support would be an interesting question.
I was going to say NetZero or The Union, but they're both pretty organized on the internet. That counts for a lot.

>>49899391
>I'm afraid you won't find that printed anywhere in the sourcebooks.
It's printed all over the sourcebooks. I'm sorry that you had trouble discerning that "most of the game undermines itself" was an opinion. Stop getting so damned salty.

>...says the man who uses it every five minutes.
Yes, and you clearly have trouble with it. You fail to understand it. You get salty when people use it (except you, I see that sarcasm~)

I do customize my setting (I play CofD, which is all about customizing your setting). Your entire argument was that you preferred one type of sourcebook to the more prominent type. I was simply asking why you would want to play the game that doesn't do what you want instead of one that would cater more often to the things you like. Clearly you didn't like the fact that so many of the White Wolf books were about edge and brooding and darkness. Even in 1997, though, I feel like there were probably better choices.

And, again, perhaps I didn't spell things out for you enough, but what I mean to say is that you brought up Mage and were complaining about the books in 1997 being something you didn't like. You were bringing it up as reason why Dracula shouldn't make the game like that. But during 1997 the game was selling like fucking hotcakes and you were implying that most of the people who played it felt the same way you did. I do not believe that. If you think they did, please provide me with some sort of source.

>Can you just put on a trip so I can ignore you, please?
You first.

>>49899469
>Says not to acknowledge Aspel
>Acknowledges Aspel
You are the problem with this thread.

>>49899438
>Right along with "your ethnicity determines your entire outlook"
Yeah, unless it's the fact that you want to be human, or a wolf and just simply deny the other parts of you; even when they try to make the Tribes not single-raced like say, the Uktena, they still come off as being offensive by saying stupid shit like that by taking in oppressed minorities the Uktena have to deal with tons of Gang violence in their own ranks, as if the Cholos down the way still care when the Wyrm's around the corner.
> Are there just no mixed race Werewolves or something?
I'm not necessarily trying to defend the books, but I do recall them saying that Wolfies get some choice in what Tribe they join, so if you're like a sensitive poet type with Norse heritage, you won't *have* to join the Get.
>>49899449
Yeah, for all that I like the Setites they're a captive of some misunderstandings of Egyptian mythology.

>>49897207
No, Hotline Miami 1 fits the tone of Unknown Armies.

>>49899469

Like or dislike Aspel all you want, but could you at least gender her properly?

>>49899643
That is something that I do for everyone but Aspel.

>>49899497
You know, why don't you give me some examples of how they tell you that you're doing the game wrong and should be ashamed of yourself. Because more often I only see examples of how to run the game right, not a lot of time spent on saying how everyone who does it wrong should stop.

Also, again, that's what was selling in 1997.
Hell, plenty of RPGs like that still sell (Lamentations of the Edgy Game Designer, for instance)

>>49899578
>If the totem accepts you, you're a member of that tribe. Full stop, end of discussion.
Yes, but tribe is also ethnic. I mean, let's take the Black Furies, for instance, since they're the most overt example. It's right there in the name. They've all got dark black fur, right? And Wendigo look like they'd get lost in the snow? That's my problem with Tribe. It's Ethnicity and Philosophy rolled into one. The one equals the other, and I think that's fucking stupid.

>>49899604
>the Uktena have to deal with tons of Gang violence in their own ranks, as if the Cholos down the way still care when the Wyrm's around the corner.
While I don't think that mortal concerns you've dealt with your whole life, like intergang rivalry, man, fuck that comes off as racist, and I have no doubt that it's a thing that's in an actual book, that Uktena have to deal with gangmembers in the Tribe because they accept minorities.

>>49899583

The Talbot Group? They are basically a group of concerned parent and social service people trying to understand why their kids are turning into werewolves.

Also I'd argue Null Mysteries and Bear Lodge do have plenty of resources, or at least more that the sisterhood. Null Mysteriis is made out of several cientists in several of the biggest research institutions in the world. At least doctorate-level resources of researching plus a much better organized and researched data bank of info on the creatures.

The Bear Lodge at least has to have enough money and tactic to reliably hunt werewolves without being slaughtered every time or being target by other werewolf clans all the time.

>>49899664
>Yes, but tribe is also ethnic. I mean, let's take the Black Furies, for instance, since they're the most overt example. It's right there in the name. They've all got dark black fur, right? And Wendigo look like they'd get lost in the snow? That's my problem with Tribe. It's Ethnicity and Philosophy rolled into one. The one equals the other, and I think that's fucking stupid.

Again, no. The Furies try to lure away female Get, or female members of tribes that they feel are mistreated, all the time and sometimes they are successful. The tribes have an archetypal "look" but it's not universal. In the case of the female Get turned Fury, she'd probably look like a big fucking timbre-wolf next to her more archetypal sisters.

Again, you can be a member of any tribe who's totem will accept you.

>>49899665
You do realize that not all transgender people want to "fully" transition, right? In fact, many don't, whether because they don't have gender dysphoria directed at their genitals, they'd rather have a penis that works instead of a vagina that requires constant dilation and may lose sensitivity, or they just don't like the idea of the current surgical technology.

>>49899643
Nope. Fuck that fat little faggot. He gets nothing.

>>49899719

I am one of these, not that it matters to the thread.

>>49899715
Yeah, but there's still an ethnic aspect to it. You can change tribes, but by default you're not going to find someone who's all white furred and Wendigo descended in the Fianna. Which is silly.
The group that finds you first should determine your Tribe, not your ethnicity.

>>49899674
The Talbot Group does have scientists and researchers and grants, though. I mean, they're concerned parents, but sometimes a nusuzul has a rich mommy and daddy. I don't think they're rich, but I doubt they'd be the poorest.

Oh, wait. Duh. It's the Night Watch. They're basically just people who hate drug dealers and vampires, but don't have the strength, numbers, or organization of the Union.

>>49899739
It's cool, you're cool. A lot of trans people in general are cool. Aspel, however, is not. He's a self-righteous pedo who does not deserve to be defended by you.

>>49899137
>For. Real. Though. Every single one of the Tribes of the Garou are racist and societal caricatures to the point where it's almost embarrassing...
I feel you're drawing some pretty large generalisations. The Silver Fangs were not a caricature of Russian steretypes. The Black Furies were not "typical Greeks". Yes, there were regions of the world that certain tribes came from, just like the human populations they dwelt within. That just means they would have travelled and cross-bred like the humans around them. One generation, you have Indians and Chinese. Give a few centuries and you have Malaysians. In the modern nights it's fair to say the Silver Fangs *originated* in Russia, not that "...every Silver Fang is a depressed alcoholic with syphilis, heavily emotionally invested in Putin and yearning for communism when not struggling with a krokodil addiction."
>BSD
Does anyone remember that bit in Book of the Wyrm 2nd Ed where it says BSD kinfolk tend to be serial killers?

>>49899761
Stop ruining threads because you're fucking salty. You're the one being self-righteous. You're not even participating in the thread, you're just shitposting.

>>49899772
I don't know about the Silver Fangs, but the Black Furies are caricatures of 70s era antifeminist depictions of feminists.

Also he probably doesn't literally mean "every single one"
Glasswalkers are great. They're probably the only tribe that isn't dumb. Mostly.

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>>49899772
>I feel you're drawing some pretty large generalisations
Because a lot of the tribes are huge, huge generalizations. So i'll give you the Furies (feminist stereotypes) and the Fangs (Inbred nobles, seeing a trend?), but surely the Bone-Gnawers, the tribe of poor people (Appalachian Hill-folk and American White-Trash tropes errywhere), aren't that bad, maybe the uh, the Wend-oh...Uhm, Bunyi-nope. Stargaze...Eesh. Okay, how about the Hengeyokai....ahahhahahahahahahah.
>>49899772
Yeah, that was a bit of an odd depiction, you'd think they'd have a vested interest in keeping their kinfolk out of prison.

>>49899775
I'd say go eat shit, but that would just be cannibalism. So just fuck off, you waste of existence.

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>>49899206
>I don't watch Sons of Anarchy but please tell me more about the magical airship battles with alien spirits and space marines in Jupiter's orbit.
Yes, yes, that's exactly what I said, exactly. I clearly stated that Sons of Anarchy had gritty moments followed by attacks ships on fire off the arm of Orion, in reference to relieving tension in storytelling. You haven't confused what I've said, or made yourself look like a complete drooling imbecile in any way.

>You want some fries with that salt?
You got a collar to go with being such a bottom?

>>that's why the 20th Anniversary "nostalgia" edition of V:tM outsells CofD books every day of the week, right?
>How do you know?
Well... this is really, really complicated for someone on your level, but bear with me... if you go to the website that sells White Wolf books, print on demand? So, the only place to get new titles as well as old?
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/1/White-Wolf?test_epoch=0

Well, there's this thing on the page called "Hottest Titles from White Wolf" - hope those words aren't too big for you - that shows what the "Best Sellers" are, Aspel. Can you guess what that means, Aspel? It means the ones that sold a lot of copies, Aspel. The *most* copies, Aspel. And check it out... Vampire 20th Anniversary Edition has been at number 1 ever since it launched at %1100 of it's kickstarter goal, Aspel.

Changeling: the Lost, is at 2nd place, Aspel.

Is 1st place "better" than 2nd place when we're discussing performance, Aspel?

(None of the rest of you help him... it's important he figures this out for himself)

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>>49899758
>>49899823

>Yeah, but there's still an ethnic aspect to it. You can change tribes, but by default you're not going to find someone who's all white furred and Wendigo descended in the Fianna. Which is silly.

Because tribes developed along with the cultures in the lands in which they flourished in pre-modern times when people were still highly static. They took root in the those cultures because because they have familial ties which is pretty much the same as anyone else.

>The group that finds you first should determine your Tribe, not your ethnicity.

Oftentimes, it does. Werewolves sometimes pop up several generations down the line and in a modern, multi-ethnic society where people of different nationalities inter-marry, this can mean less-than-greek Black Furies and less-than-nordic Get of Fenris. Sometimes, if they're from a Kinfolk family, they'll already be marked by a tribe. Sometimes, if they're that Lost Cub that's several generations removed from his last ancestor, they won't. Modern tribes can't afford to be picky unless they're the Wendigo and they have a valid reason to be pissed.

Oh, and the Glass Walkers. They first arose in Judea and Mesopotamia. They've since spread out and they don't actually care about lineage and haven't for a long time. But that's because Cockroach is one step up above Rat.

The Furies? They actually have a totem enforced charge to protect women, children, the weak and the wilderness. They're pretty fucking cool, actually and their signature character is Hispanic.

The Fangs? Inbred nobility is NOT a stereotype.
>pic related

Wendigo and Bunyip? In a roleplaying game, they were taking the opportunity to call attention to the absolute betrayal that indiginous peoples endured at the hands of the colonial powers. What the fuck do you want?

BSD and their kinfolk problems? Pentex took care of it.

>>49899245
>>the only people talking about it (anywhere) are fat old racists wishing they were young punks again
....and game designers, reviewers, fans of Bloodlines, college students, parents, freelance writers, gaming groups, gaming stores.... are you butthurt because you can't pidgeonhole the entire world?

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>>49899413
Your reasonable assertions and thought out view points are not what I came her for Anon, and only fuel my corgy rage

>>49899907
I know its fun to play kick the retard, but really, its far better to just ignore him. He hates nothing more, you see him go into a 'tism tantrum every single time he thinks he's being ignored until he's derailed the thread to pay more attention to him.

Ignore the sperg, make these threads decent again.

>>49899907
My point is that oWoD did not keep to a consistent tone, which made it's levity moments seem inconsistent and disjointed. Your example--Sons of Anarchy--on the other hand, keeps a consistent tone and doesn't give mood whiplash.

>Well, there's this thing on the page called "Hottest Titles from White Wolf" - hope those words aren't too big for you - that shows what the "Best Sellers" are, Aspel. Can you guess what that means, Aspel? It means the ones that sold a lot of copies, Aspel. The *most* copies, Aspel. And check it out... Vampire 20th Anniversary Edition has been at number 1 ever since it launched at %1100 of it's kickstarter goal, Aspel.
Actually, I don't think that's in any sort of order. It also doesn't seem to be consistent, since Lost isn't at #2 for me, the VtR Translation Guide is, followed by the nWoD 1e corebook.

But, you see, if you go to DrivethruRPG's Top 100
>This is a listing of products ranked by copies sold divided by days on sale.
Kinfolk is the first World of Darkness game that comes up, then it's Promethean, Mage, and the 2e core before you get to another 20th Anniversary book.

And we've had Dave and Ian point out that these aren't exactly accurate metrics.

So if you're going to be a sarcastic twat, it's really helpful if you know what you're talking about.

(In fact, for me, Changeling is 10th, right after Geist; so clearly the Hottest from White Wolf page isn't ranked
Going "Onyx Path Publishing" also puts CofD stuff before a lot of oWoD stuff)

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>>49899953
Nothing, and everything. Honestly i'm just trying to point out that most of the tribes fall to stereotyping hard and that they could be wider in nature. I like a lot of the tribes (Get, Wendigo, Uktena, Glass Walkers, Gnawers, CoG and Shadowlords) but many of them honestly just don't have a lot to them beyond their basic theme or their ethnic status, surely you can admit that much?
>BSD and their kinfolk problems? Pentex took care of it.
I must have missed that one, the latest version of BSD kinfolk I have read is from Wyrm 20, where it suggests that most modern spirals have dropped the whole, "Let's breed thrill killers, rapists and necrophiliacs!" and have mostly retreated to a hands-off approach where they try to involve their kinfolk as little as possible to limit their Wyrm-taint and culpability so they can make effective bolt-holes.
>>49900005
This is easily the best thing I have read all night. Thanks Corgie, Thorgie.

>>49899312
>Then why do you care?
>They can make whatever they want and you can run whatever you want.

Because rather than accept that simple truth, we get preachy passages from Brucato about how we're the worst, the absolute worst cunts in history, worse than Pol Pot & Herman Goering's lovechild, if we DARE allow brevity in the Grim Darkness of the 3rd Millenium, let alone have the AUDACITY to order food delivered from a place that didn't have sustainable organic practices! "it's hard to conjure the mysteries of the ether," masturbates Brucato, "...when the last of the pizza grease is congealing in the box."

The pretension is cranked up to 11 with the cookbooks that were released by Onyx Path. The recipe for the Fianna tribe involved a haunch of venison. I shit you not, a *haunch* of *venison*. What the fuck is wrong with pizza and mountain dew? It comes back to that "high art" bullshit I was talking about earlier. Airs and fucking graces, for what?

>>49899953
>Because tribes developed along with the cultures in the lands in which they flourished in pre-modern times when people were still highly static. They took root in the those cultures because because they have familial ties which is pretty much the same as anyone else.
I feel like you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to get at. You keep using these examples of things that sometimes happen, and I'm aware of them, but my point is not that this is 100% how it is and more of a "this is the default assumption that the game treats as the norm"

>>49900005
That is a beautiful lawn.

>>49900014
You keep saying to ignore me because that's what I hate, but you don't do it. Please, make me angry. Ignore me. You know how much I hate that.

>>49900070
Liking the Get
Well you can just Get out.

>>49900074
No, why do you care? Why do you care about preachy passages?
Also, show me. Show me what gets you so hot under the collar. Is it another "if real world demographics make you more uncomfortable than roleplaying murder, maybe you should reexamine why that is"? Is it so upsetting to you that a fun little cookbook for traditional and archaic tribes of werewolves uses archaic terminlogy?

>>49900100
>>>/d/

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>>49899312
>>Yeah, and an equally large, undefinable amount don't go throwing around generalities that mean nothing
(he was talking about you, Marie Curie)

> So long as they *aren't* bullying newbies
(he already said they were, Einstein)

>I even showed you the definition of the word where it says that it's used informally.
As long as you continue to use the word in a haze of hyperbole to cover for your chronic lack of perception, I'll call you out on it. Be clear, or be questioned. Choose.

>Also, it's not faithless, and I've said it to your face.
No, you typed it into a screen to a faceless mass of words. Don't pretend you can even touch me.

> If people want me to trip, too fuckin' bad, I'm not going to because I want to make it difficult for anyone who gets up in arms.
You have just reinforced my position. I will fuck with you until the end of time, Aspel. :)

>>49899365
>the two most untrustworthy clans form an alliance
This won't last long. 5th Ed will obliterate it.
>gangrel going back to camarilla
Why didn't they just give them the finger and join the Sabbat? I thought the Gangrel were sick of dying for their bullshit, and all that. Seems to me an attempt to blackmail an entire clan could backfire unimaginably badly.

>>49900145
Just. IGNORE HIM. Nothing rankles him more. He fucking wants attention, it feeds his persecution complex. Just cut his fatass off.

>>49899449
The Set = Snake bullshit is because the closest the original game designers came to studying Egyptian mythology was watching old Conan movies. Remember James Earl Jones turning into a giant snake? His god was called Set.

It comes back to something I said once before. The designers went with what they knew - pop culture. They weren't scholars.

>>49894137
>Bloodlines 2 is possible and so is another godawful Hunter game, but even better they're looking at lifting the C&D order on Project Vaulderie (Bloodlines Multiplayer through Unity engine);
>The MMO assets will be cannibalised to spruce the Multimedia shit;

These sound like good things though.

>>49899497
>>Just like as long as you don't act like the writers should only write what you want
>I only resent it when the designers spend nearly a third to half of their GMing section telling me that i'm trying to run their game the wrong way and that I need to stop.

PREACH IT SISTER

>>49899457
You talk about it all the time. Strange behaviour for someone who "hates" it....

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>>49900070
>>49900070
>Nothing, and everything. Honestly i'm just trying to point out that most of the tribes fall to stereotyping hard and that they could be wider in nature. I like a lot of the tribes (Get, Wendigo, Uktena, Glass Walkers, Gnawers, CoG and Shadowlords) but many of them honestly just don't have a lot to them beyond their basic theme or their ethnic status, surely you can admit that much?

For the Wendigo and the Fianna, yes. But I still think that there's something of value there, even if it needs moderation and modern eye. As it is, the tribes are informed by the cultures in which they arose and, as a history grad student, I can't say that that's wrong. Take the Get's symbol for a moment. That's some challenging shit right there.
>filename

Pretty daring for a company to put up as the symbol of a major faction in one of their flagship lines. Buuuuuut... go look up a map of swastika artifacts dug up in Britain. That shit was everywhere. EVERYWHERE! And it's because so much of what the Garou are is defined by a pre-modern paradigm and in a pre-modern paradigm ethnicity mattered. Holy shit did it matter.

>>49900074
>Because rather than accept that simple truth, we get preachy passages from Brucato about how we're the worst, the absolute worst cunts in history, worse than Pol Pot & Herman Goering's lovechild, if we DARE allow brevity in the Grim Darkness of the 3rd Millenium, let alone have the AUDACITY to order food delivered from a place that didn't have sustainable organic practices! "it's hard to conjure the mysteries of the ether," masturbates Brucato, "...when the last of the pizza grease is congealing in the box."

Yeah, and Brucato's an infamous nutbag who will never read this thread. Shut the fuck up.

>>49900240
I'm okay with that. Robert E. Howard Snake cultists are awesome.

>>49900145
Do not engage ASPEL. Simply redirect him to >>>/d/

If every post that ASPEL makes is met by three replies that redirect him to >>>/d/, we will be able to have a productive thread like we're having now.

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Oh wow, how did I miss American Horror Story? It satisfies my thirst for Wraith, or at least the first 'season' did. Sure, the lore isn't there, but it gave me the same feeling, and it didn't pull any punches with it's plot.

SPOILERS: I was genuinely surprised that Violet had been dead for a while when it was revealed. I also really liked Tate. I'm not starting the next season til sometime tomorrow, but I'll be sad to say goodbye to the characters, as I can see that they seem to be separate stories. Are the other seasons as good? Any have vampires?

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>>49900070
>pic related

>>49900074
>Brucato
>Terrible technical writing skills
>No Balance
>Riding on Nostalgia

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>>49900074

>>49899583
>It's printed all over the sourcebooks.
Uh, let's see.... nope, just a title, logo, WW code, that odd texture... maybe the blurb on the back clearly has the phrase "Apocalypse is shitty and the themes are poorly handled" like a mature content warning.... no. Hmmm.
Aspel, is it possible you just wrote that phrase in permanent marker all over your sourcebooks when you were drunk and can't remember them ever not being there? Because the alternative is that you're hallucinating, possibly even mentally ill or suffering from organic brain damage. You need to speak to a doctor.
>you clearly have trouble with it. You fail to understand it.
Aspel, it's you. It's your choice of words, your poor skills in rhetoric and your automatic resort to pure hyperbole. I don't have this problem with anyone else on 4chan. I'm not sure whether you're not as clever as you think you are and you just over-reach, or you genuinely have a chemical imbalance in your brain that leads you to irrationality and incoherence. Neither would surprise me.

>Your entire argument was that you preferred one type of sourcebook to the more prominent type.
That's a big F- for reading comprehension, little bottom. I said that the unrelenting bleak depressing shit in Wraith got too much, so we ran a lighter version of mage based on my interpretation of 2nd Ed, because unrelenting edginess is depressing shit, and I'm clearly not an emo like you. Then you got inflamed and started ranting about how inappropriate it was for me to customise that, despite your assertions, now, that it's all you ever do with CofD. Now what does "hypocrite" mean again...? Or is your "creativity" limited to storylines based on Tapping the Vein lyrics?

> what I mean to say is that you brought up Mage and were complaining about the books in 1997 being something you didn't like.

No, I complained about metaplot being incoherent, useless and unneccesary. You either don't read posts you reply to, or you're mentally ill.

>>49900561
Do not engage ASPEL. Simply redirect him to >>>/d/

If every post that ASPEL makes is met by three replies that redirect him to >>>/d/, we will be able to hav
e a productive thread like we're having now.

>>49900191
But he's so stupid, and slow, and dim-witted, with such an inflated sense of self importance and the memory span of a tsetse fly... it's fun watching him humiliate himself. It's even vaguely on-topic, instead of being about the social and gender issues that you all find so dreadfully triggering. You may not like what he's saying, but he's actually contributing right now.

>>49900593
>>>/d/

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>>49900284
>Yeah, and Brucato's an infamous nutbag who will never read this thread. Shut the fuck up.

I didn't type it for him, darling, I typed it for you.
Now, give me your tears, WoD: Gypsy.

(I like you. Have a picture of a Navy SEAL K-9 unit's armour, and dream big for your Glass Walker concepts) xx

>>49900631
Okay, dude. Seriously. I've never even played a glass walker. The closest thing that I've played to a GW is a Gnawer kid who was just thrilled to have a stable family that he finally fit into while pounding beers in the back seat of the general.

Dude, you are trying way too hard to troll. Trolling implied deception and you are just failing on all accounts in that area.

>>49900561
See >>49900443

>>49900396
Different seasons touch on different concepts of horror.

2 was "Asylum" - lots of horrific medical procedures in 1964, a demon, faith, insanity, aliens.

3 was "Coven", dealing with women whose bloodline allowed them to tap into up to seven dangerous powers, WoD: Gypsies style. They didn't sell their souls for power... not all of them, anyway. Also, zombies, hell as an afterlife and Melrose Place levels of bitchiness.

4 was "freak show" and dealt with one of the last travelling freak shows in it's dying days, 1956. Themes included betrayal, becoming "the other", grief, hauntings and a brisk trade in body parts.

5 was "Hotel", and that's the vampire one. Heavily influenced by the film "The Hunger" and the real life incidents in New York for the 1893 World Exposition, themes include disease, longevity, family, grief, madness, serial killers, vampire feuds, ghost hauntings and a demon that terrified the show creator, but after continued exposure to 4chan, simply made me smile.

6 is "Roanoake Nightmare" and has almost come full circle back to the haunted house of season 1. However, this time the show is filmed like Syfy's "School Spirits", with survivors talking in interviews, cutting to "re-enactments" with "Actors" playing the survivors. Unlike 1, we don't get to interact with the ghosts. The terror in this one is largely the fear of the unknown, the lurking, stalking, eternal terror... and a nod to America's oldest Cold Case, the mass disappearance of the Roanoake Colony (which as we all know, happened because the Croatoan Tribe, colonists and every kinfolk on the continent sacrificed themselves to kick the Wyrm in the nuts).

All up, it's good inspiration for any * of Darkness setting, because it encourages you to see the monsters of the setting as more than just Big Bads. They are deeply flawed people, with wants and needs and desires, never doing what they do because they can, but because for whatever fucked up reason, they want to.

>>49900070
Hey, it's >>49900284

Please respond. We were having an extremely productive conversation and I'd hate for it to die.

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>>49899953
>Wendigo and Bunyip? In a roleplaying game, they were taking the opportunity to call attention to the absolute betrayal that indiginous peoples endured at the hands of the colonial powers.

This, so much. The brotherhood of man shows up in Australia, and immediately sets to work poisoning, raping, murdering and generally harassing all the locals. The Tasmanian Aborigines had evolved separate to the mainland tribes over tens of thousands of years, as every effort to understand what remains of their language has proven to us. They lived lives of plenty, song and dance, untroubled by the tribal skirmishes common on the mainland.

And then Whitey. Ruined. Everything.

Tasmania started being settled around 1823, and battles between troops and tribes started soon after. Shit escalated into a now almost forgotten "Black War" that lasted a generation. The locals fought bravely in hit and run attacks by day, the troopers went after their women and children by night. Women were raped. Men were murdered. Children were adopted like housepets and given new names, new identities. Colonists sold disease blankets and poisoned flour. Places here still bear names scarred by history. "Mercy Point" - where the blacks begged for mercy as they were herded off a cliff. "Blackman's Bay," where 30 aboriginal men were murdered and the culprits never even investigated. Eventually they formed "the line", a press gang the length of the state that worked from one end of the island to the next; they caught one old man and one child, the rest melted into the bush. Eventually, ragged survivors surrendered and were placed in quarantine on islands to the north. Their civilization declined. While their DNA still lurks in our cells, their words and ways are lost.

The War of Tears, The Bunyip - these are constructs we use to examine the horror without being overwhelmed by the fact that Australia succeeded at something the Nazis couldn't; the systematic extermination of an entire people.

>>49900052
>ASPEL
>>/d/

>>49900100
>>>/d/

>>49900242
They are good things... I hope. But I smell corporate bullshit.

"Bloodlines 2" and "Hunter: I Hope You Have The Right Console" have the potential to die in development hell. Project Vaulderie may be "permitted to continue" but there's no indication they'll be given a shred of funding or support. Simply having the will to make these games is not enough, they have to be made to a standard worthy of the sauce or we'll have another "Vampire:tM Redemption" on our hands.

The MMO assets seeing use is probably the best part of that news. They had a crew working on that for 10 YEARS. Assuming they worked 260 days a year per person, 9 to 5 with an hour off for breaks... that's 1,820 work hours from each individual that worked on it. This wouldn't have been a small team, either. That's an *awful* lot of man-hours for a project that got pissed on by management.