Hektor Heresy

>>49881066
>Void Angels
Maneuver Warfare

>Heralds of Hektor
Experts at using the environment against their enemies/ to benefit them. Honestly, this would be utterly OP in real life, but in 40k it's pretty bleh.

>Silver Cataphracts.
Combined Arms warfare with an exceptional amount of artillery.

>We have three.
Try again.

>>49881154
Okay, then by your logic, even the OU has zero specialist legions. Imperial Fists? Nah, son, they're defensive specialists. Iron Warriors? Nope, they're siege masters! Fucking ultramarines? Nah, they're not generalists, they're focused on combined arms tactics and infantry. Sons of Horus? CQB. Death Guard? Chemical Warfare.

There are no generalists, I guess.

>>49881441
>Imperial Fists? Nah, son, they're defensive specialists. Iron Warriors? Nope, they're siege masters! Fucking ultramarines? Nah, they're not generalists, they're focused on combined arms tactics and infantry. Sons of Horus? CQB. Death Guard? Chemical Warfare.

Exactly right on everything but the Ultramarines.

Maybe you should read the Legion pages before answering.

>>49881508
But Ultramarines aren't just generalists. They're extrememly focused on following specific tactics, with a bent towards infantry.

I think you could actually make a better argument for Imperial Fists being a more vanilla legion than the ultramarines.

>>49881530
>But Ultramarines aren't just generalists.

They are explicitly generalists. "Just" generalists is pretty redundant.

>They're extrememly focused on following specific tactics,

The Raven Guard, the Night Lords, the World Eaters, the White Scars, the Iron Warriors, and the Space Wolves are all Legions who are extremely focused on following specific tactics.

The Ultramarines are basically pre-Perturabo Iron Warriors with the addition of stolen, Chinese knock-off versions of everyone else's special units and tactics.

>with a bent towards infantry.

Every Legion is bent towards its Space Marines! Even the frickin' Iron Warriors! Individualized and storied heroes sell better than faceless planes and tanks.

>I think you could actually make a better argument for Imperial Fists being a more vanilla legion than the ultramarines.

You said it, you make the argument.

>>49881154
>Silver Cataphracts.
>Combined Arms warfare with an exceptional amount of artillery.
Combined arms is generalist.

>>49882028
>Ultramarines are just generalists
The double Gladius strike force is specifically supposed to be their average battle company, and this setup is almost exclusively infantry, working together with interlocking units and tactics.

Things the Ultramarines are good at: combined warfare, rigid tactics with flexible localized strategy, and shooting.

Things the Ultramarines are pretty mediocre at: CQB, armored assaults.

>With a bent towards infantry
Yeah, every legion. Except the White Scars (cavalry), the Iron Hands (armor), the Blood Angels (aircav and armored blitzkrieg), the Dark Angels (lightning warfare and terminators), Salamanders (mechanized infantry), and depending on the time of day, the weather, and their mood, the Alpha Legion.

>stolen chinese knockoffs
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over my better-than-the-IF's-breacher Invictarus Suzerains, and my better-than-tyrants Fulmentarus siege terminators.

Cheap chinese knockoffs. Bitch please, they're objectively better than their inspirations.

>>49881154
>maneuver warfare and environmental advantage
These are tactics, not specialties. Are there legions whose specialty is using cover, or coordinating their forces?

>>49882294
In our OU, or in canon?

>>49882468
Doesn't matter, I was more mocking the idea that basic fundamental parts of warfare could be a specialty.

WE ARE THE KNIGHTS OF IMPERIAL STEEL MARINES, AND OUR SPECIALTY AND CHAPTER CULTURE IS NOT GETTING SHOT!!

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>>49882487
>The proud Imperial Steel take pride in their usage of their feet in strenuous marches across average terrain

>>49882208
>Combined arms is generalist.
Far be it from me to disagree with the Legion's own writefag.

>>49882236
>The double Gladius strike force is specifically supposed to be their average battle company, and this setup is almost exclusively infantry, working together with interlocking units and tactics.

Damn son, I don't even know what your talking about. Which means I capitulate this point until I read up some more.

>Things the Ultramarines are good at: combined warfare, rigid tactics with flexible localized strategy, and shooting.

>Things the Ultramarines are pretty mediocre at: CQB, armored assaults.

As generalists the Ultramarines are pretty much 3-4th best at everything among the Legions. Being 3'rd best at most things and being "good" at it, and being 4'th best at some things and just being "mediocre" at it is pretty much in keeping with them as generalists.

>Yeah, every legion. Except the White Scars (Cavalry), the Iron Hands (armor), the Blood Angels (aircav and armored blitzkrieg), the Dark Angels (lightning warfare and terminators), Salamanders (mechanized infantry), and depending on the time of day, the weather, and their mood, the Alpha Legion.

Mongols on bikes, cyborg-marines, mutant borderline-heretic berserkers, plasma knights of Goatse, burnt blacksmiths, and Hand-wavium: the Legion. C'mon son.

>I'm sorry, I can't hear you over my better-than-the-IF's-breacher Invictarus Suzerains, and my better-than-tyrants Fulmentarus siege terminators.

>Cheap chinese knockoffs. Bitch please, they're objectively better than their inspirations.

You're a son of a bitch, alright. But you're a correct son of a bitch.

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>>49882577
>Far be it from me to disagree with the Legion's own writefag.
?

>>49882638
Are...are you not the Steel Cataphract's writefag?

>>49882294
Both those Legions have the same writer so why don't you kill two birds with one stone and ask him?

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>>49882663
I actually write for the IA, not the Silver Cataphracts.

Although on the subject of combined arms/generalist, the Markian Corps is combined arms/generalist.

First of all, screw this NO NAMEFAGGING shit, we should be able to tell who each other are.

>>49882577
>Damn son, I don't even know what your talking about. Which means I capitulate this point until I read up some more.
It's gameplay stuff.

The 7th edition space marine's decurion equivalent is a doubletap of the Gladius Strike Force (an originally ultramarine infantry-heavy FoC type thing that gives a bunch of bonuses if you take it).

>As generalists the Ultramarines are pretty much 3-4th best at everything among the Legions.
But they're the absolute best at interlocking units and combined tactics, which is perfectly reflected by their tabletop rules. No matter which doctrine you pop, everyone gets better, both rules wise and because you can capitalize on whichever squad is getting the big buff.

>Mongols on bikes, cyborg-marines, mutant borderline-heretic berserkers, plasma knights of Goatse, burnt blacksmiths, and Hand-wavium: the Legion. C'mon son.
I don't even get what your point is here. I pointed out some legions that aren't focused on infantry. You described them in a humorous way. What is your point?

>You're a son of a bitch, alright. But you're a correct son of a bitch.
You're god damn right. I march for Maccrage and I do it with the noticable support of the fluff and crunch author's biases for making the Ultramarines flawed badasses who are better at everything than everyone else as long as they can stick to the plan.

>>49882761
Well we would know how is who if people actually came and stayed on the IRC

Besides that where's the Fu Manchu Brennus you promised

>>49882761
>I march for Maccrage
I thought you played fists and admech. Did I just imagine that shit?

>>49882775
I check the IRC once a day, and no one is ever actually on, save for the host.
>>49882781
I play Fists in 30k, Ultramarines in 40k, and I ally in my skitarii to both forces.

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>>49882638
>>49882692
You see, you cannot have a generalist on the individual level. A soldier is not going to be your heavy trooper, your assault marine, your heavy weapons, and your scout all in one. If he is then he's not just a generalist but an elite. It is at higher levels where an army is actually generalist, with a balance of assault/defense, armor/infantry/air/artillery, long range/short range, etc. A generalist force is flexible, and combined arms enables flexibility. This does not necessarily mean a lapse in mastery though, it's just that specialist forces utilize strategies that allow their particular method of warfare to counter what the enemy brings.

It's jack of all trades vs "When all you have is a hammer" type of thing. Either have everything you need or be really handy with what you got.

>>49882761
>The 7th edition space marine's decurion equivalent is a doubletap of the Gladius Strike Force (an originally ultramarine infantry-heavy FoC type thing that gives a bunch of bonuses if you take it).
A cursory search shows the Gladius Strike Force is indeed combined arms/generalist

>>49882775
>Besides that where's the Fu Manchu Brennus you promised
Fuck, did I not post that one? I posted like four mustached Brennuses (brenni?), and a santa brennus, is that not enough?

>>49882761
>screw this NO NAMEFAGGING shit

I've always felt that names are tools, nothing more. People get way too upset about them.

>>49882812
I feel that everyone is a tool.

>>49882797
>>49882577
>A cursory search shows the Gladius Strike Force is indeed combined arms/generalist
It just occurred to me that my own internal logic here was not consistant, and that I was merely being defensive about my legion on reflex. If I'm going to consider combined warfare to be generalists, and I'm putting forward that ultramarines are experts in interlocking units and combined warfare, I therefore cannot put forth that the ultramarines are not generalists.

>>49882792
Not knocking you for that, I do the same. More of a general nobody actually goes on the IRC to discuss shit anymore, mostly cause nobody is on

>>49882809
You don't have to take my requests seriously, I think you really missed the Fu Brennus though

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>>49882830
Pictured: a gif I made all by myself.

>>49882847
Forgive me, I just had to share that one because I have yet to find a situation where I needed it.

>>49882838
Egch. Once I'm done cellshading goth eldar, I'll give brennus a fu manchu.
Also, anyone currently here, get into IRC now that the arguments have died, so we can sit there saying nothing.

Or you know, talk about the fact that we just lost the seventh legion. FUCKING AGAIN.

>>49882861
If it was truly that easy to lose its new writer, then it would not have made it to fruition in the first place.

>>49882895
I'm just going to hope it was someone shitposting and not arbites himself. We'll give him a few days.

>>49882847
I rekt myself?... Cool.

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>>49882861
>Or you know, talk about the fact that we just lost the seventh legion. FUCKING AGAIN.
Wait, what
>>49882895
Is he just being melo?

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>>49882900
Shoulda chekt yourself man.

>>49882904
>Wait, what
Someone claiming to be arbites anon ragequit the project last thread. I'm hoping and assuming it was just a shitposter, because he became angry over a trivial matter and acted uncharacteristic of arbites anon's typical behavior.

>>49882916
Stop mixing your filename based references.

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>>49882949

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>>49882916
You're gonna carry that weight.

I'm leaving this here because every loyal citizen needs to see this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gj8pAN7Y7E

>>49883018
We already know.

>>49883026
Snark is fine, but don't be rude.

>>49883208
But we already knew.

>>49883214
Maybe you did. I didn't.

>>49883226
That's impossible.

>>49883299
I'm just saying, we're not here to dismiss people who are sharing things. By being rude to that anon, you justify some of what the trolls would try to say about us. Some things certainly deserve criticism, but I do not believe that anon does.

I hadn't seen that video, and now I have, and I thought it was cool. And I appreciate him sharing it with me, at least.

>>49883226
>>49883299
>>49883018
I think I had seen the video pop up on youtube, but I didn't actually pay attention to what it was. So it's definitely possible to not know what it is.

>>49883351
Did you see "real" version of Brennus's mustache? There are a couple versions, one longer, one shorter. Plus a couple silly ones, but they matter less.

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>>49883349
>>49883351

>>49883385
I've only seen the silly versions as of yet. I'd love to see the real versions. Hopefully at least one has some sort of weird charm woven into the stache

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>>49883397

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>>49883407
Looking at these after the fact, I realize that I went too detailed. I should have matched remembrancer's work more closely.

>>49883407
>>49883421
It's only mildly too detailed. I didn't really notice that it was too defined until you called it out. I do prefer the longer version, I feel that'd more fitting for the character. I like the curving protrusions on the bottom charm of the right hand...tail? That's a good touch.

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>>49883407
>>49883421

>>49883456
Alright, cool. I'll go back and touch up that version for a "final" edit when I have some time (probably tomorrow or saturday). Any other notes you'd make?

Brennus is supposed to be loosely celtic/pictish, right?

>>49883499
Yes, generally Celtic with a special focus on a Gaelic influence.

>>49883469
Brennus shaves his moustache after Akechi Ferdiad shames him. That's the closest I think we can get to Primarch seppuku.

>>49883519
>Brennus shaves his moustache after Akechi Ferdiad shames him. That's the closest I think we can get to Primarch seppuku.
Ah, if only I continued work on the Ogre Legion.

>>49883519
>Yes, generally Celtic with a special focus on a Gaelic influence.
Why then the stone age fetishes then? Figured he'd have more braidwork and bronze than anything else if you're going celtic.

>>49883551
Bones are hardcore.

>>49883562
Actually, the core of most bones are soft, as many vertebrate species broduce red bloodcells in a lattice of soft intra-skeletal tissue colloquially known as bone marrow.

If your bones are hard cored, please seek out a magos biologos for medical attention immediately, as your life may be in danger. Such an occurrence, if untreated, would likely lead to death as your body would lose its ability to convey oxygen to your cells.

>>49883551
Well, I didn't tell Remembrancer what sort of thing I expected with the stuff woven into his beard, and I liked his design when he posted it. If he came back now I might talk him into doing some visible earrings, or more intricate braids.

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>>49883590
My marrow is hardcore. It's literally made of blood.

>>49883605
get me some references for the kind of thing you're looking for, and I'll give it a go when I go in to decrease the detail on his beard. Can't promise it'll be as good as rememberancer's work, but I'll see what I can do.

>>49883612
We're all going to IRC, get your ass in here.

>>49883622
I will get on it asap. If you leave a message on my talk page with your email I'll get in touch with you when I have something.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/User_talk:PrimarchBrennus

>>49884366
Second bump, same as the first.

Hey, Arbites!

I thought paratroops were supposed to be tough.

Sincerely, a dirty leg.

PS You won't continue working, no balls.

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Also, this post has no link to the last one, and did anyone archive shit? No?

Well, then...

>Last thread:
>>49809767

old thread is archived under the tag /tg/ heresy

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>>49886215

I have returned after a healthy breakfast of oxycodone and greek yogurt

Have I missed anything pertinent?

>>49886566
Yup, some anon pretending to be you *quit* in making the Crimson Eagles.

>>49883687
What's the server again?

>>49886612
suptg.thisisnotatrueending
#hektorheresy

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>>49886729
Thank you

>>49886602
Jesus christ, are you kidding me?

>>49886225
No...no you're not. That's fucking wierd innit?

>>49886215
THE TOUGHEST THERE IS

WATCH YOUR ASS LEG

>>49886748
I'm sorry, I don't register the complaints of pogs.

>>49886756
I can't hear you over my GT score, grunt.

>>49886770
>Brings up GT score against a grunt
>second highest average per job in military
>person he's arguing has a 127.

>>49886782
>second best
First losers, leg.

>>49886782
127? Das pretty good

Is infantry really second highest though? I figured that would go to 35F or 09 series

Guys, I have the mental facilities of an earthworm, I can't into IRC

>>49886895
Yes, we are. Largely thanks to the 18-series jobs (every one is also technically 11B as a secondary MOS), Rangers (min. 105 GT), and LRRS (see Rangers). Add on to that the fact that all the 18x washouts go back to 11B, etc. etc.

But, yeah, the MOS generally attracts two types:
Dumb guys who want to join and don't want to be cooks or truck drivers and smart guys who want to fuck shit up.

>>49886932
What's the problem?

>>49886748
>>49886932

Hey Cali, just looked over the Eagles. Bretty good so far, especially the Demolition of Daecee.

Quick question about their organization, though. When you say that each of their ten Chapters is made up of five Companies each, do you mean that their Chapters just tend to the smaller scale, or that each of the Companies within the Chapter is of a higher-than-average strength?

And do the Eagles overall structure lend itself to the lower echelons? Or is it more top-heavy?

>>49886947
I cannae find it, lad.

>>49886960
The later, with your first question. Companies are slightly larger than in other legions due to fewer formations. If they had the same amount of formations their numbers would be pretty average, more or less.

At the Chapter level you just have commanders and honor guard and such. There's at lot more going on at the lower echelons, providing greater levels of autonomy should shtf. Their operations require a pretty good deal of cooperation and communication, but once you climb out of your drop pod or hop out of the thunder hawk or rev up your space apache you kinda just need to be able to execute the mission as it was detailed to you before mission.

>>49886936
That's perfectly understandable. I wanted to be 11BangBang but Daddy ArbitesAnon, a former Cav Scout, suggested that I would enjoy 35M more.

This was after he steered me clear of artillery and 19k

>>49887068
can't find what? the extension/add-on/app?
the server? irc.thisisnotatrueending.com
the channel? #hektorheresy

>>49887068
Download an IRC Client, then just chuck in the server and channel

>>49887127
>>49887148
Ah. Gotchya.

I'm on my galaxy right now, what's a good IRC app?

>>49887169
Maybe something like RiceIRC or HoloIRC? Do note that there's no rush to jump into the IRC, the original post to get in was hours ago.

>>49887169
I used to have a cell phone client for that. But found it was more trouble than it was worth, as there were lots of issues with connecting/disconnecting, etc.

I'd suggest just using it when you're actually at a computer.

besides, practically nobody is on right now.

>>49887195
>>49887204
Roger.

>>49887169
>>49887195

You don't even need to download an app, you can just go on KiwiIRC.

>>49887068
>If they had the same amount of formations their numbers would be pretty average, more or less.

So the Crimson Eagles Legion as a whole is one of the smaller ones, with fewer Marines? Quality over quantity, ey?

>There's at lot more going on at the lower echelons, providing greater levels of autonomy should shtf. Their operations require a pretty good deal of cooperation and communication, but once you climb out of your drop pod or hop out of the thunder hawk or rev up your space apache you kinda just need to be able to execute the mission as it was detailed to you before mission.

I'm imagining the Crimson Eagles in comparison to the Raven Guard as the Space Marines version of what the Harakoni Warhawks are to the Elysian Drop Troops. Is that close to what you were shooting for?

>>49887297
>So the Crimson Eagles Legion as a whole is one of the smaller ones, with fewer Marines? Quality over quantity, ey?
That was the intent, yes. But they also have a tendency to lose marines in impossible fights but bolster their forces pretty quickly from their target world. This makes their numbers some of the most inconsistent around.

>I'm imagining the Crimson Eagles in comparison to the Raven Guard as the Space Marines version of what the Harakoni Warhawks are to the Elysian Drop Troops. Is that close to what you were shooting for?

Yeah the Warhawks are prettt close to what I'm going for in terms of theme, aesthetics, and doctrine. As for the Raven Guard analogy...ehhh

I see them as a combination of Raven Guard and World Eaters, with the Raven Guard influence slowly turning into Night Lords over time

>>49887467
>This makes their numbers some of the most inconsistent around.

Well the most important numbers are the Legion's when the Heresy begins. In the OU, Horus pulls strings to get the Traitor Legions in tip-top shape before attacking. Should Hektor do this, what would the Eagles number at their mostest?

>I see them as a combination of Raven Guard and World Eaters, with the Raven Guard influence slowly turning into Night Lords over time

Raven Guard elements are pretty untouched at this point, but World Eaters and Night Lords tropes are already present in the Void Angels, Eternal Zealots, Sons of Fire, Black Augurs, Iron Rangers, and Life Bringers so that'll be harder to distinguish oneself with.

>>49887729
>Raven Guard elements are pretty untouched at this point
The Iron Rangers, Justicars, and the Black Augurs all tap into these elements with varying degrees of strength.

>>49887994
And the Zealots (kind of).

>>49887994
>Iron Rangers
Stealth

>Justicars
Misdirection and disinformation, which the Raven Guard don't expressly practice as part of their doctrine.

>Black Augurs
Psychic mind-clouding.

So, only the Iron Rangers really, and only superficially at that.

>>49888419
>And the Zealots (kind of)
How?

>>49888686
You seem to change the goalposts every time you make an assertion about what's written on the wiki...
Read the Raven Guard wiki page, especially Chapter Doctrine section. Then read the AU legions doctrine sections.
Also "Stealth" and "Psychic Mind Clouding" aren't doctrines.

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I keep getting this screen. What am I doing wrong?

>>49888686
>zealots
Using Jump packs to avoid enemy contact and directly decapitate enemy forces. given, they are much more direct, so it's more about jumping over the amassed forces than performing a stealthy lightning strike

>>49888799
Stealth isn't a doctrine, but the ir use girls strikes and asymmetrical warfare that has been attributed to something akin to "the Raven Guard using Night Lords tactics for Alpha Legion reasons."

Not necessarily in that order.

>>49889049
Guerrilla* strikes. But girls strikes is funny.

>>49888848
Short Answer? Nothing, keep at it.
Long Answer? Nothing, there's a long editorial process and consider most of these posts as suggestions and constructive criticism. Take it as advice, not censure, and keep rolling.

>>49889113
I meant with the IRC, anon.

>>49889145
What client are you using? Or is that kiwiirc

>>49889145
if you are on Firefox, download Chatzilla extension.
If you are on Chrome download Byrd extension.

Which are you using?

From there, you need to open the application (usually a button on the top right bar) and find join channel in the options.
put in the server field:
suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com

and in the channel field:
#hektorheresy

That should be it.

>>49889283
Where is the channel field?

the chat just keeps telling me that it will reconnect that countdowns

>>49889391
which client are you using?

>>49889417
Byrd

>>49889422
I'm on Chatzilla so I can't help you exactly, but it should be under the server field. And its not working for me now either.
Try without the .com at the end in server, and if that connects you can worry about the channel after.

>>49889521
Connection failed result: -118

>>49889563
I'm out of luck too. Not sure what's wrong with it, it worked earlier, though literally no-one save the host was there.

>>49889735
Meh, I'll just work on the outline then

>>49889422
Byrd is a bit odd that way. Right click the server option, and "join channel" should be an option that pops up. From there it should be cake.

>>49889802
Connection keeps failing boss

>>49889773
I got mine to work again.
Network: suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com
Channel: #HektorHeresy

I recall that Byrd can also add ports. I believe it was 6667 for suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com.
If thats incorrect, someone please jump in to correct it.

>>49889972
>>49889802
I'm in.

>>49890001
good to hear!

>>49890148

>>49882294
My original idea for the HoH was that there specialty would be deep strike and suprise attacks on the enemy. I didn't flesh it out fully which is probably why it never made it in to the writing people did after I vanished.

Is our IRC down for anyone else? I can't connect to the server.

>>49892049
no its up.

this should be the info you need >>49889972

>>49892097
My usual method of entering isn't working. I'll get it figured out.

>>49881035
holy fucking shit i am so glad it's friday fuck this week my coworkers are retarded.

>>49893489
Get in the IRC!

>>49893613
IRC is nah.

>>49893719
What?

>>49893769
I'm not a big fan of IRC, so I don't generally use it.

>>49893781
Well we're all in there

>>49896290
is there a point any more?

>>49897456
Sure there is. I don't mind IRC, it's good for bullshitting and such, but if there is work to be done it should be done here.

>>49897976
I'm going to bump for now. Slow night. I'm stuffed and tired, will probably be on in the morning to add some stuff to the Scale Bearers and possibly discuss the future and past of the Vulpis Canem with Zorg if he's around, see if he wants to do that.

>>49898942

I'm Thinking this one's a lost cause.

>>49902495
Nothing's ever a lost cause

>>49903685
That's a totally sane philosophy...

>>49904132
>>49902495
Everyone is pretty much just chilling in the IRC

Has anyone read my outline for the Eagles in the Heresy? I want to make sure all is kosher with you guys

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Crimson_Warhawks

You guys need to check this out.

>>49906769
Its the Crimson Eagles, but Imperium Asunder did them...

Based on the dates under user history, they predate Arbites Anon by at least a few weeks.

>>49907132
more like a mix of the IR, Justicars, and Crimson Eagles. So basically Raven Guard and Alpha Legion.

>>49906769
So what does this mean for the Crimson Eagles, exactly?

>>49907132
>Imperium Asunder
Considering that Boopy/Alexios/Golgothos has actually referred to some of his creations in IA by the names of the HH Legions that inspired them, I'm not overly worried about things flowing back again.

Speaking to the Warhawks in particular, they look to be a bland knock-off of the Barrow Lords:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Barrow_Lords

>>49905312
I skimmed the outline and nothing leaps out at me. Unfortunately, it's pretty common for a sketch to get a pass, then the detailed version has problems.

>>49907890
I rather like the Warhawks, and they didn't seem like a knockoff to me.

Also, give feedback on what I have so far in the Heresy section of the Markian Corps if you feel so inclined.

>>49907890
>Speaking to the Warhawks in particular, they look to be a bland knock-off of the Barrow Lords

By that logic, the Hektor Heresy Legions are just bland knock-offs of the canon Legions.

The Warhawks have a lot more detail and fluff though. How is one thing a "bland knock-off" of something else, when the one thing is better than the something else?

>>49908551
Ignore the frog. Frogs be talking shit about Warhawks.

>>49907966
I feel that the Battle of Thenar could use more detail beyond 'we ground it out until the traitors ran out of bodies'

Other than that, looks good, especially the Anorexia part

>>49910050
>Especially Anorexia
Ara ara~

>>49910199
Chaos could always use more yanderes

>>49910321
I like to think of Anorexia as a parody of Pallas and Arturia.

>>49910432
I'm not seeing it. Maybe Pallas but Arturia?

>>49910447
This fanfic has increased the number of females in the galaxy from none to three. We're trying to go for sex equality here.

>>49910474
All female IA regiment when

>>49910505
Whenever you feel like writing one up, I suppose.

>>49910505
Whenever I transplant the Sabbath Ice Maidens from AS to over here.

>>49910543
Wait, IG/IN split. I can't do that.

Alright, just brainstorming the rough ideas behind a IA formation that may or may not be mostly women.

Any thoughts on heavily psycho-indoctrinated soldiers that upon command will suicidally rush enemy vehicles and emplacements with short-range, single-shot mini-lascannons?

>>49911823
Seems like a job better suited for bulkier warriors, might be the issue. Also if they're all single-shot guns, that's just gonna lead to a lot of wasted blood and iron. It's usually more effort to equip and ship such an army to battle than it's worth to use.

Women are known to be genetically better at various things relevant to air combat though, like G-tolerance, smaller frames that fit into planes better, and so forth. Might make a good IA formation, especially if you can come up with something clever than the "lol valkyries" thing people always do.

>>49911909
That's true, but the idea of a regiment of crazy mini-Eversors is highly tempting.

The gender-equality angle will probably have to be scrapped though. However, this is sci-fi, women aren't limited by real life genetic differences, just the fact that it wouldn't really contribute anything story-wise.

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>>49911823
>Any thoughts on heavily psycho-indoctrinated soldiers that upon command will suicidally rush enemy vehicles and emplacements with short-range, single-shot mini-lascannons?
>>49911909
>Seems like a job better suited for bulkier warriors, might be the issue. Also if they're all single-shot guns, that's just gonna lead to a lot of wasted blood and iron. It's usually more effort to equip and ship such an army to battle than it's worth to use.
Sounds like a job for the 901st Antitank team!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UASzuBGd5L0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGu_84pg_Pg

>>49912127
Of course, this is Zorg.

>>49912127
Damnit my references have been discovered

>>49912140
If it makes it better I do have an explanation as to why you need crazy pointblank troopers.

They come from a death world with monsters that induce fear and panic through pheromones, these guys are indoctrinated to get in and kill the monsters through their tough hides.

>>49912190
If something causes fear and panic, the last thing you want is people indoctrinated to charge into them with heavy weapons.

Because if anything goes wrong, ever, they're charging into your own front lines. Or they're attacking each other as they charge.

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>>49911909
>Women are known to be genetically better at various things relevant to air combat though, like G-tolerance, smaller frames that fit into planes better, and so forth. Might make a good IA formation, especially if you can come up with something clever than the "lol valkyries" thing people always do.
>>49912140
My homeboy.
>>49912190
You could always just say that it's how their world trains them based on poorly thought out doctrine that they pulled out their asses, and because the regiments never report either success or failure back to the homeworld they just assume it's working. It is.

>>49912257
Sounds like something that would happen in 40K.

>>49912257
Well the idea is that you indoctrinate them to prevent fear and panic

>>49912338
If it works, then some of the time you have some people who will charge in close enough to hit things that have armor enough to resist bolter fire and krak missiles from range, yet *not* enough armor to be immune to things that a human can carry.

If it fails at any point, you risk losing the entire regiment. And as we know from our good friends the Spess Mehreens, "indoctrination" is never something to be depended upon.

Basically, I'm dubious.

>>49912302
Even by 40k's loose standards.

>>49912448
Fair enough. I won't stop trying to get the suicidal nutter squad in though, they just need more refinement

>>49912723
Suicide's fine, you just probably wouldn't have trained the squad to suicide in that fashion.

>>49912804
>Suicide's fine
Suicide is never fine. It's a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

>>49912804
I should clarify that not all of them are indoctrinated, the nutters are something like an elite unit for them.

As for weaponry, the reason why they have to get suicidally close is so that they can penetrate armour. This would be a tactic employed on their world to take down the beasts. The weapon itself would be their signature equipment.

>>49912448
>If it works, then some of the time you have some people who will charge in close enough to hit things that have armor enough to resist bolter fire and krak missiles from range, yet *not* enough armor to be immune to things that a human can carry.
Aim for the viewports. That's what the guy in those videos does.

Also, a regiment I did in Imperium Asunder was Corps Zero, which was essentially a regiment of Eversors lite. It made penal legions look sober. Suicide regiments are fun stuff.

>>49913033
>I should clarify that not all of them are indoctrinated, the nutters are something like an elite unit for them.
That's dumb. They should all be nutternauts like the 901st.

>>49913090
Nah it diminishes the effect if all the troops are 901s. Gotta keep the nutters in short supply so that they're more surprising. Then again maybe all the nutters could be in a single regiment that creeps out the normal troops.

>>49881035
So, I'm being a fuccboi and not writing shit like I told Lumey I would.

Who wants a planet written for them?

Disclaimer: (As always, to receive planet, one must have made space on the wiki for planet, because I am lazy and dislike making wiki pages)

>>49913166
An entire regiment of Randel Oland expies would be fun. They're all big amiable oafs, like friendly Saint Bernards, but then they get on the battlefield and a switch just flips, and they become these emotionless juggernauts, unfeeling, immune to pain and dismemberment. They move like machines, braving lasfire and cannon barrages to destroy tanks at point-blank range with their lasmagnums and meltabombs.

>>49913340
This reminds me that I should probably finish fixing up the Endless Sons rather than starting new shit like the nutters. Damnit.

Skimmed the thread to catch up

Something about alleged plagiarism?

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>>49913410
I grok you man.

>>49913428
What?

>>49913428
>>49913451
I think he's referring to the similarities between the Crimson Eagles and Crimson Warhawks, with the Warhawks coming first

>>49913410
Having the discipline to finish one thing before moving to the next is always the hardest part.

Trust me... I know.

>>49913514
Just running through the Endless Sons new plan quickly.

>Find forge world cut off from the Imperium
>Get shot down, whole chapter decides to pacify forge world
>Something happens and the psychically gifted brothers unleash their gifts to save everyone else
>Eventually world gets brought into submission, librarians get forced into exile for breaking the oaths of Orannis
>Rest of chapter stays on forge world to fiddle, realises too late that the AdMech on the forge world has been subverted by some ancient force (maybe ctan shard)
>Rest of chapter descends into tech heresy, ironically librarians remain most untouched

Any thoughts on the feasibility of this?

>>49913451
This
>>49913466

>>49913614

Hmm.

Well, the main issue with that is that the Scribes screen their aspirants for psychic potential before letting them be Scribes. Quite literally, they consider the powers of the Warp to be poison fruit, and do not use them despite their utility.

So, there really wouldn't *be* any psychically gifted brothers among this Chapter. I guess unless they've been away from the Scribes for a very, very long time. Enough to basically have come from a different Primarch, at least.

>>49913738
Many people, including myself in previous projects, favor using all kinds of "Warp toys" in their narrative. For the Scribes, I tried to break out of my patterns/ruts, and actively go against that.

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Imma post the Markian Corps inspiration why I psych myself into writing more.

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>>49913834
*While

>>49913784
Okay, that's interesting. This could open up a way for them to get corrupted, since they don't have librarians to realise the danger of the tech that they unearth.

How do they screen for psychic potential? Would it be possible for some late bloomers to get picked as battle-brothers without notice? Especially since this chapter is pretty much on a exploration crusade and recruits from random worlds they pacify.

>>49913856
Or I could say fuck it, cut the librarian part and let them all become hereteks

>>49913856
I guess that depends on how common it is for people to awaken their potential late in life. I wouldn't really know what that percentage is, though, hopefully someone else could shed some light on it.

As far as the random recruitment goes, everything really just depends on how far the apple wanders from the tree, and for how long. If they've been gone five thousand years from Imperial-controlled areas and barely remember their traditions, or if they've lost so many people they throw away their pride in themselves and recruit anyone they can, those might both be reasons it could happen.

>>49913926
Hmm ok, that helps a bunch. Thanks Arelex

>>49914010
No problem. It's nice to be useful every so often.

>>49915505

>>49915505

Working on adding some stuff to SB.

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Guys, I dunno know, I'm trying to wrack my brain but I'm really not liking the Lightherders as they stand right now. I'm thinking of scrapping them completely and writing up a new Successor altogether.

I should have their page up by Tuesday.

>>49919567
What's the problem?

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Scale_Bearers#Task_and_Organization
Boom.

>>49919616
To be completely honest, the cult-Chapter idea came to me late at night, and that's when I've usually written stuff about them. Looking at them now, they're not what I want. I don't know if I'm going to completely rewrite them, but I'm putting them on hold for now.

I'm still going to write up a Successor for the War Scribes. Maybe not one as ambitious, though.

>>49920085
Welcome to the Hektor Heresy.

I think we should adopt the motto "My idea didn't work as I wanted it to and needs to be rewritten."

>>49920201
Ha! Now I'm finally part of this thing. Or I will be when I put the new Successor's page up.

>>49921309

I feel like Merrill needs to eat apples a lot.

So he can be even more of an asshole.

>>49919567
No need to rush if it doesn't work. We're not your boss or anything

There's still two Primarch slots open, right?

>>49924691
Officially: no.
Unofficially:
The lost legions debate has weathered the years here, and it doesn't seem like it's going to go away. Right now, we're not able to move forward until one final Legion is finished and slotted, and adding more Legions would significantly deeper/further rewrites of the existing canon we've got. If you have an idea, you can pitch it and if things fall away for one of the existing Legions we can swap you in, but no promises.

>>49924691
I'm assuming that the lost Primarch slots stay lost

>>49924777
Wait, what's the final unfinished legion? Is it the Crimson Eagles?

>>49924839
Yup, he just started a bit ago.

>>49924777
>>49924792
So I've only really bumped and pitched ideas recently, most notably the chambers militant being composed of the lost legions, and if Arbites Anon approves, maybe the remnants of the Loyalist Crimson Eagles, or perhaps loyalists from all the traitor legions

>>49925023
Further officially bits:

>Loyalist traitors
That's probably going to largely be a no-go because people have a habit of turning them into mary sues. Personally, I'd like to see the Knights Errant, we could have them doing cool guy shit behind the scenes without being ridiculously OP Mary Sues, then go on to help found the =][=, but it's unlikely.

>chambers militant
That's also probably a no. There have been a few nods of agreement, but several people have also disagreed, myself included. A lot of people just tend to think that having a stray chapter that specializes in combating xenos is a bit redundant, and the Grey Knights don't quite fit the big man's plan (he's trying to wipe out all references and worship, so having a massive military force designed to murder things you're telling everybody doesn't exist is kind of counterintuitive).

>>49925248
>Loyalist traitors
>No-go
Haha guys, good thing we don't have any of those right *nervously looks at Chapter Sigma

>>49925293
Not sure where you're going to fit in on the grand scheme of things, I'll be honest.

I'm kinda surprised that Lumey gave you the OK, because he's been rather critical of loyalist traitors in the past. Personally, I think you've got a lot of cool ideas in there, I'm just not sure about the timing of it all.

>>49925374
Well they are pretty much Eyes successors by now, since the Traitor geneseed got purged. Everything else can be explained as Vardhana visions.

>>49925470
Fair enough, and let me be clear:

I personally really like the idea of loyalist traitors, but they are by sheer virtue of existence, special snowflakes. So they are on precarious grounds.

I think we've also got a variety of skillsets balanced out within the Legions on either side of the split where the Imperium actually loses certain specialists with the split, and would be willing to support the creation of loyalist astartes from traitor genes somewhere down the timeline in much later Foundings, where the HLOT might decide that a certain skillset might be necessary and may be more willing to make that risk.

>>49925548
>special snowflakes
This is warhammer. There are litterally four factions that aren't composed entirely of special snowflakes.

>>49925023
Well I like where you're going, but I was just going to have the Loyalist Crimson Eagles revert to the Liberators and be a "normal" chapter. But if you come up with a better idea I'll be more than happy to roll with them

>>49925248
I think we should hear him out, inspiration comes from the strangest places, but for his benefit I want to clarify some of your reasoning, because I'm a big proponent for the Chambers Militant idea

>a stray chapter that specializes in combating xenos is a bit redundant

I'm just so confused with this point, do folks just point blank NOT want a Deathwatch or Ordos Xenos Chamber Militant at all?

>Grey Knights don't quite fit the big man's plan

I'm positive that they where made by Malcador, and either way the Grey Knights are one of the most tightly held secrets in the Imperium.

>>49925593
There's special, and then there's *special*. Snowflakeism in 40k has to be measured relative to its own baseline, not other writing, and by that standards some things do certainly stand out.

>>49925640
>the Liberators
What's their deal?

>>49925660
>Snowflakeism in 40k has to be measured relative to its own baseline
Right, but keep in mind that literally every traitor legion has a loyalist successor chapter (whose current ex-traitor status varies in canon).

>>49925721
Mostly I base my argument against Loyalist descendants of Traitors on having observed dozens of /tg/ homebrews and conversations regarding such, and the sheer amount of argument and hatred they inspire.

I don't think it's necessary, and I don't think it's a good idea.

>>49925721
Literally pre Primarch Crimson Eagles, they were more about diplomancing planets before salting fields and burning cities.

>>49925755
>opinions

>>49925859
I mean... yeah?

>>49925859
It is a contentious subject, both sides have understandable viewpoints. Also, he's kinda right you know. Still, snowflakes done carefully can still work

>>49925640
I would like to have some of these answered before sharing my ideas

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>>49925755
Yeah, I can see why it would be annoying if mishandled, but even in the canon there are at least 7 chapters like that. It's not like there's a lack of precedent, and there are plenty of narrative reasons why they might exist in our universe, hell, there might me MORE reason to have them in our AU then in the OU.

In our AU, there are several traitor legions that do one thing a lot. I'll use the example of the lifebringers here, because they're easy.

So, say you're a lifebringer. You've spent centuries studying and adapting biology, creating and perfecting the econologies of dozens of worlds. In that time you've created biological weapons to eradicate unclean alien species, and vaccines and medicines that led to billions of healthy humans that would never have lived without your work.

But one day there's a bit of drama between your primarch and some of the others. You aren't sure exactly what it was, you're just a biologos, not an equerry or something. But it doesn't affect you that much, at first, so why worry? But over time, the primarch becomes more and more bitter and radical. His lectures on medicine and biology increasingly turn to the dark pseudo-science of the warp, and the tainted results of his experiments are plain to see.

After so long serving life and prosperity, would it be so unreasonable for you to turn away from your lord's madness? You're abandonning your heraldry and your father, to be certain, but is that worse than abandoning all that you believe? Maybe not.

>>49925901
If you're asking about the DW and GK, the answer is that there is no answer since there's no consensus on it, apart from a general hands off approach.

But do share your ideas and we can figure things out later. Just don't get too attached.

>>49925640
We have at least four people chomping at the bit to start writing the inquisition. The problem is that, unlike marines, the =][= will likely start out by the actions of one person, or one small group of people, as they did in the canon. It's not the kind of thing you give away to lots of people to write until you have very clear outlines and communication.

>>49925901
Pretty much these >>49925999 >>49926019 . We've had the idea of them being what's left of the Eyes of the Emperor, them being a mix of Blackshields and traitor-legion loyalists, and I know it was being talked over a couple threads ago that they could be a more modernized, efficient version of imperial military, leaving heavily on modern special forces.

It's pretty up in the air right now, and will continue to be until someone starts crusading one way or the other.

>>49925640
>Do we not want a DW
I'm not sure. I do, as do a lot of others, but the specifics of how that happens are when discussion starts falling apart.

>Grey Knights are Malcy's
Yes, they are, but if we have them as an entire Lost Legion, that implies that they were designed by the Emperor as such. Hence my original statement.

>>49925897
Right now I'd say I'm the only one here, so I can't absolutely speak for a whole group. But pitch the idea anyways, if it's a strong idea, it might change how things go down.

>>49925999
>General hands off
We've discussed individual factions and ideas in the past involving them, and as a whole want it operating basically the same. The only real issue is how it starts. We've got Malcador does Malcador shit and things happen. If the Knights Errant were to make a debut, then that would fit in easily. Problem is, we don't.

And with that, I'm logging off for the night. Have a good one, everybody, maybe more people will be on in the morning and some more productive discussion can be had.

>>49926101
>Yes, they are, but if we have them as an entire Lost Legion, that implies that they were designed by the Emperor as such.
I disagree. Keep in mind that the original GK grandmasters weren't designed to be grey knights. Most of them weren't even psykers. The initial generations of the force don't have to be psychic anti-demon paladins, they can come later.

And even then, what's wrong with an anti-demon legion? Having one kind of makes sense. Demons require very specific tactics and gear to combat effectively, and such specific methods would be most efficiently employed in one smaller, elite legion, rather than as subsections of each individual legion.


>If the Knights Errant were to make a debut, then that would fit in easily.
Knights errant are kind of outside of the scope of our current state. Let's finish the foundation before we start putting on additions.

>>49925999
Check'd, but here's my ideas

>>Grey Ronin
>The VIIIth Primarch landed upon a fuedal world, perilously close to the Eye of Terror, populated by a vast web of island chains, the rest of the world engulfed in uninhabitable rocky islands and churning seas. There he was adopted by the great warlord of the Sakana clan, a maritime clan responsible for a large majority of the production of ships and fishing on their hemisphere. After their rivals, the Akuma clan from a neighboring kingdom razed their lands and invaded their capital, the Sakana shogun gave the young Primarch the family blade and had him flee with the clan seer, a beautiful young witch. After years of hiding the growing Primarch's psychic potential came to the fore, his sleep plagued by taunting visions of great and powerful Yokai that dwelled in the baleful spiral in the night sky. The seer helped him harness these visions, and how to drive the yokai from his mind, and as the planet veered ever closer to the eye of terror, from reality. After his caretaker died in the wilds the young man traveled the world seeking answers to his abilities, and how to further hone his will. He became handy with a bow, and with a blade, but with a glaive, spear, or trident, he was uncontested, using them not only as tools of martial prowess but as focii for his psychic abilities. As he studied with sages and the veil between the world and the warp thinned he learned of the dangers of his powers in the hands of wills weaker than his own. He traveled the land purging yokai and foul wizard alike with his mystic glaive until the renown of the warrior who bore the name Sakana reached the ears of the aged Akuma Emperor. He sent assasins, then mercenaries, then armies after him, but where his forces could not best him, they could not find him, the Primarch having taken to the sea or rocky islands. Soon the Emperor challenged him, conquering the land with wizards who consorted with the spirits and demons and yokai.

>>49926999
Soon ninja were replaced with oni, mercenaries with packs of yokai and spirits, and armies with bands of demons. Seeking to end this armageddon the Primarch set sail to his homeland to confront the warlord, now fully dedicated to Chaos. Little did he know but this great upheaval in the materium drew the attention of the Emperor, who sensed the Primarch's psychic pulse and iron will. They raced to rendezvous with the Primarch as he landed in his lands to cut the head of this demonic snake. The Primarch cut a bloody swathe through the land, and as he met the bulk of the demonic forces the Emperor and VIII legion made planet fall. They shared not a word, as when the Emperor made eye contact with his son they both knew all they had to about eachother. They purged the demons and the armies of Akuma, but as they marched upon the capital the Emperor had gathered every psyker on the planet that his forced could find in an attempt to sacrifice them all to summon a mighty ruinstorm. Through their combined effort the Emperor and Primarch were able to seal the breach and send the daemons back to the warp, but it cost the Emperor his son, and the legion half of their number, the Astartes cast into the warp as the final blow was struck. The Emperor was prepared to silence the rest of the legion, their experience with chaos sealing their doom, but Malcador the Sigilite, noting the remarkable strength of will, mind, and spirit that both the Primarch and his Legion possessed, and offered to instead secret them to the Jovians, where he could study them as they could prove useful in should the Enemy gain the upper hand once more.

So basically Seafaring samurai instead of Space Paladins.

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>>49926999
>>49927124
I've done space Japan like twice. I tried doing it a third time as a space marine legion before I decided "Naaaaah."

>>49927206
Well I've never done it, and I think it would be more interesting than grey knights what with all the "muh purity" elements of shinto. That and Aquatic/nautical imagery

>>49927238
I'd rather we didn't try bringing Japanese elements into the Grey Knights. That would come with accusations of "Muh weeaboo" from everybody.

>>49926999
>>49927124
That seems.... a bit much maybe.

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>>49927238
>>49927275
Also, Christianity is enough for me thank you very much.

Now, what I wanna work on later is a psi-titan legion/order.

>>49927275
It might be worth it to go all the way over the top. The Mary Sue to end all Mary Sues. Kaldor draigo wielding fine steel folded a thousand times to slice his name in kanji.

But yeah, Japanese grey knights are kinda ehh

>>49927275
>>49927291
>>49927328
It won't be over the top. My model will be the white scars. You don't see them running around with fur hats and bows, right? The biggest influences will be naming convention and some, SOME, flourishes, like Japanese waves on shoulderpads and tanks and such, litte nautical touches done in an eastern style. At the very least it gives them some culture and de-sues them a bit. No Emperor geneseed, just geneseed that, with proper training of the mind, provides some bonus resistance to the warp. Which is good.

Besides, a Primarch trapped in the warp preserved by a deep meditative state is less sue than Kaldor Drago running around wrecking stuff. Kaldor is epic and cool, but we hate epic and cool things.

Tl;dr I want the focus to be on the whole strength of will thing. They get to be daemon hunters because they work for it. They Grey Ronin don't get anything handed to them, there ARE Ronin that fall to Chaos, they DO lose battles, they DON'T carve their names on Daemon Primarch hearts. Other reasons why this could be a neat idea

>Judoflipping Daemons
>Grey Knights are Anime as fuck anyway, lets just bring it back to the old school
>they are grey because they never got their Primarch, I just thought it was kinda cool how that works out
>They could train with the Custodes, keeping the Daemons in the webway. While still kinda sue, it keeps with the theme of training hard and working for their sue status.
>The lost legion could be the source of the Legion of The Damned. Or one of the possible reasons anyway.

>>49927291
It probably seems like too much becuase it's two full posts of text wall.

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>>49927625
We could just de-sue the Grey Knights. Or do fucking Psi-titans for extra hardcore shit.

But we don't need to add MORE legions, even if they're not legions anymore.

>>49927696
>>49927625
Because it's late as fuck o clock I'm not going to write another shitty block of text

>>Black Wardens
>Primarch lands on a world that used to be a really advanced world but is now blasted back to like...1400s
>Primarch raised by injun raiders. If he survived he totally would have gone traitor
>Raids the shit out other injuns, becoming Injun conan with a mohawk and a jawbone club
>Ork WAAAAAHG, The Beast's, makes planet fall, at the same time as a Thrudd scrapper fleet and another minor xenos race that doesn't exist anymore. Primarch goes HAM on xenos, leading injun legions against them.
>Beast kills Primarch, and enslaves the humans to mine for Archeotech
>Big E and III legion show up to nab all the cool tech, OH SHIT THEY HAVE A DEAD PRIMARCH
>BTFO the Beast (for now) and the III Legion gives chase

I'm not sure whether it would be better if they were able to recover his body not.

>Anyway, that planet becomes a big deal, and the III legion chases after the Beast, conquering planets and shit along the way, until they corner them. Both sides are run pretty ragged, but for Orkz that's no big deal
>Marines get the everloving shit slapped out of them and the vast majority of the legion is lost. Essentially they take the place of the Imperial Fists. HOWEVER due to taktikul jeenius the legion isnt ENTIRELY whipped out and hunts down minor xenos and thrudd like jews in attics, taking out eldar and orks where they find them, not returning to system solar until they literally have no supplies left to fight, benching them for almost the Crusade. Being used as little more than oest control

>>49927745
>We could just de-sue the Grey Knights.
That's no fun and quite frankly the GK are boring as hell. Space Yojimbo is more interesting, if done right

I'll do it right.

>Or do fucking Psi-titans for extra hardcore shit.
>JAPANESE?! That's a bridge too far! How dare you! But what about Psy Titan legion instead?

Really?

>But we don't need to add MORE legions, even if they're not legions anymore.
>LITERALLY benched for the great crusade, if not the whole Heresy
>Too much

Besides, it's not like YOU'D be doing any extra work. Hell, the only time this would come into play is once we set up the Inquisition, which we are no where near
Don't shoot this down because it smells like weeb. Give the idea a chance.

And before I go to bed, a note on the lost legions:

Sometimes I feel like you guys are missing a key element of the function of the lost legions, and that's that they serve as an avenue for YOUR DUDES. Now the books of the official canon have fucked this up a little by saying that they were killed to a man.

However, unless you've forgotten, this isn't the official canon. This is an alternative interpretation of events and almost every single major player is fan made.

These are ALL OUR DUDES. We don't NEED Legions to be Lost because literally every marine is YOUR DUDE. Having missing slots without an explanation is quite frankly fucking stupid, ESPECIALLY when you can do something inventive and clever, like cannabalizing them and using them for something else, like the chambers militant.

Now if the big push back is cultural influences, which are there simply for flavor and to a lesser extent, aesthetics, or the name then that's a nonsense argument and something that can be worked around until we reach a product that will please the majority. If not, help me understand with a logical argument, because simply dismissing it with the argument of "I don't like it" is highly frustrating and makes you look like an asshole and unwilling to accept new people into the circlejerk.

For your consideration;
>>49925023
>>49926999
>>49927124
>>49927238
>>49927625
>>49927696
>>49927973
>>49928025
All my ideas and counter arguments thus far.

>>49928176
I wouldn't look too hard into the pushback that you're getting. You've made reasonable arguments and given new ideas, which is always good.

As for your frustration, different people have different opinions on things and some really like the lost legions to stay lost. I personally feel that with the right story, they can be brought back, but again it depends.

As for our mortalitywatch and light black knights, more consensus and hashing out of ideas is needed but they could be done if someone is determined enough

>>49928025
>That's no fun and quite frankly the GK are boring as hell. Space Yojimbo is more interesting, if done right
That the GK are boring as hell is your opinion. I rather like the space paladins.

>JAPANESE?! That's a bridge too far! How dare you! But what about Psy Titan legion instead?
>Really?
It was canon in Adeptus Titanicus, and there has yet to be fluff to retcon it. Granted, it's only a paragraph, but it has basis. Plus I'm not trying to replace the Grey Knights.

>>49928025
>Don't shoot this down because it smells like weeb. Give the idea a chance.
As a weeb I say I'm not shooting it down just because it's weeb. I'm opposed to the idea because it's redundant.

>>49928176
>Sometimes I feel like you guys are missing a key element of the function of the lost legions, and that's that they serve as an avenue for YOUR DUDES. Now the books of the official canon have fucked this up a little by saying that they were killed to a man.
As you just said, they're no longer an avenue for YOUR DUDES and are canonically destroyed. In this canon, all the legions are "Your dudes", so yes, we could have a legion of space samurai. However, you're also saying they'd be cooler than the Grey Knights. I like the Grey Knights.

>Now if the big push back is cultural influences, which are there simply for flavor and to a lesser extent, aesthetics, or the name then that's a nonsense argument and something that can be worked around until we reach a product that will please the majority
The names are my main problem after being Japanese Grey Knights. You could go without saying "Ronin","ninja","Oni", or "Yokai." Also need more derived names than "Akuma" or a Japanese dish.

Also, they become both the Japanese Grey Knights AND the Japanese Legion of the Damned?

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>>49928378
>Plus I'm not trying to replace the Grey Knights.
Sorry if this comes across as accusational, I didn't mean for it to be a potshot.

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>>49928378
>>49928386
And again, I did space Japan. I'm not opposed to bringing Japan into this.

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>>49928378
>Also need more derived names than "Akuma" or a Japanese dish.
Actually, scratch the second one. Naming a minor part of the plot after a Japanese dish is 40K as fuck.

I just wanna say that I'm with Zorg on this one. I really liked his Ogre Legion, and we've been trying to avoid the whole planet of hats thing for a while now.

>This still lets the Lost Legions be *YOUR* Legions
Except it really doesn't. If we know exactly who/what the Lost Legions are, it only allows for offshoots of said Legion, not a "fill in the blanks" option.

>>49931085
All this trouble could be avoided if the big E in this AU only made 18 primarchs or had 2 die in transit. Just a dumb idea but yeah.

>>49931179
I think it's fine to insinuate that things happened to them but not explicitly describe anything specifically.

>>49931085
>and we've been trying to avoid the whole planet of hats thing for a while now
What?

>>49931231
We've been trying to have defining cultures without making them caricatures.

>>49931220
Yeah I gotta agree with that. Still, the number of legions are just a number, and numbers can change. But of course changing the number leads to a ton of trouble so there's that.

>>49931085
>>This still lets the Lost Legions be *YOUR* Legions
>Except it really doesn't. If we know exactly who/what the Lost Legions are, it only allows for offshoots of said Legion, not a "fill in the blanks" option.
That's not my argument. I'm saying there's no need for "your dudes" when everyone is somebodies dude. The Lost Legions allow for fanon in the canon.

We don't need fanon within the fanon because

>A) Anybody who feels the need to make fan fiction in an elaborate fan fiction universe is highly unlikely

And

>B) If there is some exotic autist who trawls the depths 1d4chan that decides to create their own legion/chapter that's a degree of meta autism that we shouldn't cater to or think about

>>49931279
I DEEPLY enjoy the fact that the minute something is Japanese its a caricature. If it has a japanese aesthetic it's a caricature. If a single marine in an entire chapter has a faintly Japanese name then the entire legion is caricature. God forbid someone has a katana like weapon or helmet crest. God forbid anyone be anything other than a tacticool reasonable marine or a European Knightly knight.

It gives me high hopes for the future of this idea, it really does.

>>49931416
>Just because it's Japanese it's a caricature
No, the fact that it's so blatantly, openly, in-your-face Space Japan has me thinking that it's too much. There's no subtlety, just slamming a bunch of vague Japanese mythos into everything.

And, I'll be quite honest, your attitude about this doesn't help my decision. Instead of listening to criticism and figuring out what happened, or writing further to give greater assurances that it's not what it's being accused of, you're throwing out insults and jabs about how we're not open to ideas. Part of the nature of a group project is that you have to be willing to compromise for other people's ideals. Trust me on this, the SB, IR, and Vulpis Canem would have been vastly different otherwise, and we would have more than a few saints and =][= factions that I suggested but were ultimately turned down. Hell, Aubrey and Onyx used to have so much random nonsense going on they were more pink mohawk than Rogue Trader used to be.

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>>49931416
>I DEEPLY enjoy the fact that the minute something is Japanese its a caricature. If it has a japanese aesthetic it's a caricature. If a single marine in an entire chapter has a faintly Japanese name then the entire legion is caricature. God forbid someone has a katana like weapon or helmet crest. God forbid anyone be anything other than a tacticool reasonable marine or a European Knightly knight.
This would be an argument if there wasn't already a space Japan that's essentially the entire history of Japan shoved into one planet, that makes super aggressive knights AND super aggressive IA regiments, and has yet to be complained into nothingness.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Goda

As the first person to say "Cut legions" for whenever a problem comes up, I can't support adding another legion, especially if it's supposed to be the new Grey Knights.

>>49931635
Okay, okay. I've come off way too defensive, I see that now. If you can help me work this idea out, I would be most grateful. I want the visual focus to be on water with a Japanese styling

The motive behind this is the symbolism of purity and strength that water has, both in Japanese mythology and Shinto. I want these guys to train their bodies and minds incredibly hard to maintain the purity necessary to battle daemons

I'm truly sorry for being so aggressive, but I am dearly attached to this idea, and I think if tweaked enough it will be really good.

>>49931895
Goda is interesting, but I want the Ronin to a little more...sterile? Pure. I want them to be sleek, unfettered with blocks of text describing their history.

Instead I want to focus on their philosophy and traditions as Primarchless Astartes and Daemon hunters


If your concern with "adding more legions", then worry not. They, along with the Xenos Hunters will be benched for the great crusade and the heresy

The Ronin because they are under tight supervision by Malcador for signs of corruption and the Xenos Hunters because they took long green Beast dick and now they literally can't fight anymore.

Shoot, the Ronin can stay REDACTED and we just have the redaction link to their page. Big E and Malcy would probably want to keep them under wraps.
As a reminder to everyone this is very much so in beta, I'm not married to any names but I am married to asiatic and aquatic themes.

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>>49927328
>Kaldor draigo wielding fine steel folded a thousand times to slice his name in kanji.
That could be fucking awesome.

>>49927625
>>49926999
>>49927124
I guess I'm the only one that likes this, but I see a lot of potential here. It could be fun to see how the Grey Knight's culture changes from uber-paladins to uber-monks, and changing their christian/D&D tactics to more shinto/buddhist inspirations. It would also be interesting to see how chapter culture would change if they're based on the comparatively harsher and looser bushido, rather than chivalry.

There's actually a surprising amount of equivalency, but a different flavor. Japanese culture has equivalents of holy blades, purity seals, sacred armor, daemons, and a strong maritime tradition.

Not saying it'll automatically be good, but if a skilled and imaginative writer works with it, it could be good.

>>49927973
>>Primarch raised by injun raiders. If he survived he totally would have gone traitor
We already have three native american primarchs, try again.

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>>49928378
>space paladins.
Layman please, the Grey Knights are space blackguards, at best. Using the daemon's own power against them? Slaying the innocent? Disregarding the law of the land? Such radicals stain the good name of paladins everywhere.

>>49931085
>This still lets the Lost Legions be *YOUR* Legions
Yeah, sure, if you like having a horribly sub optimal legion that will loose every game you get into due to being 16-32% worse at everything than the legion you're facing at whatever they're good at, and no better than them at the things they're bad at.

>>49932946
>Goda is interesting, but I want the Ronin to a little more...sterile? Pure.
By that you mean?

>>49932946
>If your concern with "adding more legions", then worry not. They, along with the Xenos Hunters will be benched for the great crusade and the heresy
That they're a legion at all is the problem for me.

>>49934151
I can have my lawful evil paladin if I want!

>>49934098
>It would also be interesting to see how chapter culture would change if they're based on the comparatively harsher and looser bushido, rather than chivalry.
Instead of kneeling they kowtow. That's about all I can think of besides purely aesthetic changes. Grey Knights aren't really the chivalrous type.

>>49931279
Oh come on! This is on of the worst parts of this whole project, I swear. You guys are so obsessed with keeping the writing original and worthy of high literature that you write off some ideas wholesale. Americans in space? TOO MUCH!!! Japanese in space? THEY'RE A CARICATURE!!!

Dinosaurs in space? Cool.
Apaches/Iroquois in space? Cool.
An entire legion of biologists? Cool.
An entire legion of 007 agents? Cool.
A legion of rockbiters? Cool.
Fucking psychic titans? Cool.

Guys. This is not Hemingway. This is Warhammer. This is a setting wherein the far future, the best method of war is infantry and giant robots. Where there are wizards, vikings, and vampires in space. Warhammer is not and has never been high literature. If you want to keep your legion free of strong cultural influences, go right ahead. But don't expect everyone to do that, and stop scaring away new anons by insisting that they do to. Lighten. Up.

>>49934302
>Instead of kneeling they kowtow. That's about all I can think of besides purely aesthetic changes. Grey Knights aren't really the chivalrous type.
Well generally speaking Bushido holds its compliants less tightly than chivalry does, and it's generally harsher and less focused on helping people. Chivalry has at least some lipservice to upholding justice and helping the weak, but bushido is basically "serve your lord and you get these privalages". I think the grek knights would be harsher and have more personality under a bushido like system.

There's also the different approaches to dealing with malevolent spirits in shinto vs. Christianity. I imagine that grey samurai's psychic abilities would be less BLAST THEM WITH HOLY FIRE and more "Purify them with holy water!". Which is admittedly largely aesthetic, but the focus on purity rather than wrath could be an interesting change.

Also, the kowtow was a chinese thing, not a japanese thing.

>>49934328
We never had a problem with Americans in space, in fact we've got an anon writing up things right this minute.

The event in question we only really felt that the naming conventions were too "on the nose" about things, and loved the idea. If you want to write Warhammer that's balls-to-the-wall over-the-top, try Imperium Asunder.

I'm going to namefag now, just to cut down in confusion.

>>49934098
BASED.

This is what I've been trying to say. Thought experiment via cultural palette swap. Or giving them culture period.

>>49934115
Ah. Who are they out of curiosity? I want to brush up on your lore.

Regardless, I could drop the cultural aspects and have him be a cyberpunk post Apocalypse techno barbarian. That's actually kinda cooler now that I think of it.

Cultural influences aside, what are your thoughts?

>>49934151
One of the points I want to have within the Ronin is how to treat civilians. Should they step on those below them if they must, for the greater health of the Imperium? Or do they follow the example of Malcador and spare those that can be spared?

>>49934302
I mean I want them to be largely self contained, I don't want to bog down the setting with them and vice versa until absolutely necessary. Once we get to 40k they can become a little more prominent, just like the GK


As for you not liking that they're legions at all, I don't know how to help you.

>>49934328
This wasn't me, but I've been thinking it.

>>49934392
This. The end result will be a lot of smaller changes that will help create a separate and unique entity.

>>49934328
>Americans in space? TOO MUCH!!! Japanese in space? THEY'RE A CARICATURE!!!
Again, Japanese in space is already in this. For me, the issue is that they'd replace Grey Knights.

>>49934392
>I think the grek knights would be harsher and have more personality under a bushido like system.
They already kill people for just being within a mile of anything Chaos. They're already pretty harsh.

Until Ronin writes more the only thing I'm hearing is,"Grey Knights, but Japanese." It's not just the Japanese thing, but also that they would be a lost legion and would replace the Grey Knights.

>>49934392
>There's also the different approaches to dealing with malevolent spirits in shinto vs. Christianity. I imagine that grey samurai's psychic abilities would be less BLAST THEM WITH HOLY FIRE and more "Purify them with holy water!".
Yeahno. Imperium loves fire. Fire is based. And in the context of an entire setting where the bad guys are based on Christianity, having this one group that fights them Shinto style is... Jarring.

>>49934421
>If you want to write Warhammer that's balls-to-the-wall over-the-top, try Imperium Asunder.
Balls-to-the-wall over-the-top is inherent to 40K.

>>49934548
>As for you not liking that they're legions at all, I don't know how to help you.
Not making them Legions?

>>49934548
>Ah. Who are they out of curiosity?
Merril (Comanche/Apache. Supposedly iroqouis, but he has much stronger parallels with the first two)
Tiran (Sioux/Lakota)
Brennus (Supposedly celtic, but has a LOT of parallels with the leaders of confederacy-era Iroquois leaders)

>Ronin is how to treat civilians
Well considering that even virtuous "chivalry" GK's shit on civilians, murdering them on sights, I doubt that Bushido knights would be any better. In all likelyhood they'd be much the same, but with more contempt.

Also, it's important to note that if you're basing them off japanese culture, they would NOT call themselves ronin while they still served a lord. To be ronin was disreputable, and not something samurai would really want to be.

>>49934328
There are better ways of saying it, but this holds some truth.

>>49934421
>We never had a problem with Americans in space
Heh. This is why I like you, you're funny.

>>49934614
>Grey Knights, but Japanese
What's wrong with any of that? I get that you don't like it, but why? Just saying you don't like it doesn't really help the anon who wants to write them, because the criticism is largely empty.

>having this one group that fights them Shinto style is... Jarring.
Dude. We have groups that fight bad guys in a dozen different cultural traditions. Think this through. The number of armies that literally fight with faith and fire is like two. We have space vikings, we have two different groups of space mongols, we have space Teutonic knights and space knights errant.

There's plenty of room for diversity.

>Not making them Legions?
No, explain WHY you don't like them, in as detailed a manner as possible. That's a lot of what frustrated me the first time around, is that most of the people on this project don't give useful criticism. Saying something is jarring or that you don't like it doesn't help him at all.

>>49934704
>Also, it's important to note that if you're basing them off japanese culture, they would NOT call themselves ronin while they still served a lord. To be ronin was disreputable, and not something samurai would really want to be.

Trust me, this is by design. They weren't able to save their Primarch, and because of this they don't change their scheme from the No-Primarch grey.

Depending on how things go, they may not even Participate in the defense of Terra as Malcador may not deem them ready and doesn't want to loose the ace up his sleeve

In my perfect world the Ronin will be marred by past shame and dishonor. They'll have some emotional baggage, which will help give them some weight and personality

As for Xenos Hunter Primarch (I'm very bad at names) I'm cool with dropping any cultural influences and go full Fallout/PostCyberpocalypse. Mohawk, robot jaw, half shave, tattoos everywhere etc.

>>49934614
Look, I get I'm not going to appease you, so my only hope is to work on them until I can win over the majority. Not everyone gets to be a winner.

But a dissenting voice is always good for the creative process.

>>49934823
>As for Xenos Hunter Primarch
I've been bugging Lumey to give me permission to write up the Xenos hunters since day 3. If you get it instead I will find your and fight you in the streets.

Holy shit. I come from the Motorpool to this? Well I'll chip in my two sense when necessary, but I want it to be clear that this idea has my full support. The Grey Knights will do much better as stuffy monastic warriors with a strong focus on strength and purity. The aquatic theme is a nice touch.

As for the Death Watch dudes I like the idea that the Primarch was a techno barbarian asshole but I'm not quite sure if I like that translating into the legion/chapter. I'm also fond of how the Deathwatch is made up of experts from across the Imperium. Perhaps they can loose more numbers at Terra?

>>49934859
Why not write it together? Be a guiding light to this young newfag
And for the Record, lets not pretend there wasn't a little friction when I first proposed the Eagles.

>>49934932
>Write it together
Could work, but I get the feeling he'll have his hands full with the space samurai stuff.

>And for the Record, lets not pretend there wasn't a little friction when I first proposed the Eagles
Yeah, and that's even after I'd calmed the waters a bit when I did pretty much the same thing a couple days before you showed up.

When I originally proposed the liberators, they had literally three american name references in the multiple paragraphs of lore in my proposal, but people decided that was too much american. Three. Literally three. And that was too much American for them.

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Hmm...

For the final battle of the Pacificus Campaign, what sort of enemy should the Imperial Army fight? Elite traitor Army augmented by Chaos? Dark Mechanicum? Daemons?

>>49934775
>What's wrong with any of that? I get that you don't like it, but why? Just saying you don't like it doesn't really help the anon who wants to write them, because the criticism is largely empty.
This is why:
>The Grey Knights are bland, let's replace them with a lost legion

>>49934775
>Dude. We have groups that fight bad guys in a dozen different cultural traditions. Think this through. The number of armies that literally fight with faith and fire is like two. We have space vikings, we have two different groups of space mongols, we have space Teutonic knights and space knights errant.
They don't fight daemons with ethnically thematic magic. They use fire. Fire purifies, water needs to be purified and is easily dirtied.

>>49934775
>No, explain WHY you don't like them, in as detailed a manner as possible.
I already did. They'd replace the Grey Knights and add more legions.

>>49934932
>Holy shit. I come from the Motorpool to this?
>Motorpool
Ha, sucks working a five-day week, huh? G8 Guard 4 lyfe And by life I mean 90 days

>The Grey Knights will do much better as stuffy monastic warriors with a strong focus on strength and purity.
They're already monastic warriors with a strong focus on strength and purity, what are you talking about?

>>49934859
Shit dude, I'm sorry.

I'd be more than happy to do what Arbites said and co-write it.

What are your thoughts so far, on the Xenos Hunters at least?

>>49934932
I appreciate the support, and the feedback.

On further thought, I think that distancing the legion from the Primarch would fit better.

I don't think the Xenos Hunters really need a culture. Maybe keep the technobarbarian them until they get to the Beast?

>>49935011
The Grey Knights always seemed really filled with religious fervor. I figure the Ronin will be a little more reserved

>>49935011
>Fire purifies, water needs to be purified and is easily dirtied.
Ever burned a tire?

>They'd replace the Grey Knights and add more legions.
Yes, but that isn't inherently bad. Hate to sound like a broken record, but explain WHY that's bad.

>>49935016
>Shit dude, I'm sorry.
Mostly a joke. I've resigned myself to stay off directly writing lore for this project anyway. Too much drama.

>What are your thoughts so far, on the Xenos Hunters at least?
I want to take the idea of the Deathwatch, basically elite units that aren't quite as horrible nonsensical as the rest of warhammer's armies, and turn it up to 11. One part reasonable marines, one part deathwatch, one part modern special forces, one part intelligence warfare, with the rim dusted with 007 and garnished with scientists. Somwhere between x-com and Force Recon. Small teams of elite units, using science and information as much as they actually use guns, to make the maximum effect with the minimum troops, with so much tech heresy that they'd be excommunicat traitorus in three seconds if they didn't have so many inquisitors behind them.

I want an army in the setting that actually makes sense and works with optimal efficiency.

WE NEED SOME EFFICIENCY! LOTS OF BOOTS AND BOLTERS IS NOT EFFICIENT, BY THUNDER!!!

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>>49935125
>Ever burned a tire?
Ever taken a bath? Ever peed in a pool? Ever been to the ocean? Ever looked up the purity level of tap water?

>>49935125
>Yes, but that isn't inherently bad. Hate to sound like a broken record, but explain WHY that's bad.
I like the Grey Knights, and I doubt they can be made better by throwing Japanese influences into the mix.

And it would add another legion.

>>49935182
>Ever taken a bath? Ever peed in a pool? Ever been to the ocean? Ever looked up the purity level of tap water?
Ever watched a video on purifying steel? Ever read about the heat and pressure of the Sun's core creating the stuff we're made of? Ever heard about people getting cooked instantly after falling into lava? Ever listened to the cries of the damned as their souls are cleansed in the fires of vengeance?

>>49935182
Fire is the oxidation of any combustible substance. Water is an almost universal solvent that's necessary for all carbon-based life. It represents purity, cleansing, healing. Like half the realms of the warp are made out of fire. All Tzeench and Khorne's stuff is on fire anyway.

>I like the Grey Knights,
Okay, so your criticism boils down to "I like what it's replacing, and I don't want a new legion," which is almost totally useless to roninanon.

>>49935238
>Ever watched a video on purifying steel? Ever read about the heat and pressure of the Sun's core creating the stuff we're made of? Ever heard about people getting cooked instantly after falling into lava? Ever listened to the cries of the damned as their souls are cleansed in the fires of vengeance?
Are... Are you arguing with yourself now? But yeah, good point. Fire is pretty much antithetical to complex life, as we tend to die a lot when we touch it. Which is probably why it is so often associated with the warp. Water, on the other hand, is necessary for pretty much all life, so it stands to reason that it would be antithetical to beings of the burning hellish warp.

FIGHT TZEENCH WITH FIREHOSES

>>49935269
>Fire is the oxidation of any combustible substance.
Fire is also used to smelt metals and purify water.

>Water is an almost universal solvent that's necessary for all carbon-based life.
IE water is only good for being corrupted by contaminants.

>It represents purity, cleansing, healing.
Fire represents purity, cleansing, and light. In the Imperium.

>Like half the realms of the warp are made out of fire.
Fire is also prevalent in the Imperium.

>>49935331
>Are... Are you arguing with yourself now?
No, I pushed post too soon.

>Which is probably why it is so often associated with the warp. Water, on the other hand, is necessary for pretty much all life, so it stands to reason that it would be antithetical to beings of the burning hellish warp.
Fire is often associated with the Imperium. With the warp? There isn't a fire god, and flamers are the favored weapons of an army of space nuns and a space marine chapter.

>>49935411
Pretty much, what I'm saying is fire is a better symbol of purity for Imperial institutions than water.

>>49935182
>And it would add another legion

To be fair that both if these guys seem to do absolutely nothing until Terra, if then. 20 is a nice happy number, and we're doing something with those dumb empty slots.

>>49935125
So maybe they look at the Primarch get Shreked, get #shrekt themselves and with their time on Terra/about the galaxy they could learn that it's sometimed better to excise a tumor than it is to smash the whole body with hammers.

They could learn a lot from the Iron Rangers and Crimson Eagles, and other "clever" legions.

>>49935411
>There isn't a fire god
Tzeench. Tzeench is literally a firegod. Yeah, change and fate are his primary spheres, but fire is also one of his big things.

Fire is also a big thing for khorne, as everything in his realms of the warp are either covered in lava or on fire.

So that's fully half of chaos that's heavily associated with fire.

Ultimately I think this argument is kind of pointless. We've both put forward our cases. No one has been persuaded. Not much to be gained here.

>>49935478
>>49935478
>Ultimately I think this argument is kind of pointless. We've both put forward our cases. No one has been persuaded. Not much to be gained here.
Yeah, this.

>>49935516
>>49935478
From what I've seen Josman, Myself, and Sneaky Git (with some reworking and tweaking) are on board. Zorg is vehemently opposed. Of course we need more folks to pitch in, but keep your head up Roninanon! Things are looking good!

Well at the very least this started some good conversation?

I appreciate the support from those who offered it, I really do.


But I'd prefer not to delve too deep into the Ronin just yet. Just in case. I haven't heard a lot of opinions on the xenos hunters, however

>>49937067
>the Ronin
There seems to have been a long and inconclusive argument that I really don't want to slog through, so could I have the short version on "the Ronin"?

>>49926999
>>49927124
>>49927625
>>49934098
>>49934392

>>49927973

>>49928176

>>49937242
>>49937242
Lost legion, not much of an identity until right before the battle of terra he turns them into a Grey Knight equivalent. Instead of Grey Knight's paladins and wizards IN SPESS, you get the ronin's samurai and onmoyoji IN SPESS

>>49937242
Here
>>49937477

>>49937483
Malcador turns them, rather. Lost the word somehow.

>>49937242
Hi, new here.

Basically they're the VIII Legion but over half their legion was lost in a Ruinstorm when they tried to reclaim their Primarch. The Emperor wanted to execute them all for their exposure to chaos but Malcador noted that they seemed to exhibit some warp resistant traits and asked that he be allowed to study them in secret in the Jovians as a potential weapon against chaos. Later they are formed as a chapter thay battles Daemons. They may or may not have assisted in the defense of Terra, but that's been undecided

Their theme is that of maritime samurai

>>49937477
>>49937483
>>49937498
>>49937631

It crosses two red lines for me:

1. It's taking an achievement of Malcador in order to make the Primarch special. This is uncreative, so it's unappealing, but worse it creates a precedent for taking away from Malcador and making the setting less approachable for people who know 40k.

2. It's adding another Loyalist Legion, which means that rather than being free to write Reformation Era while the Traitors get sorted out, I would have to go back to waiting or simply give up on the project altogether and do something else.

In addition, the notion of the Legion as a secret weapon against Chaos totally overlaps with what the 13th Legion currently have, even down to resistance to the powers of the Warp.

As far as I can tell, the main thing that this proposal has going for it is "fix the Grey Knights". But if you just want to fix the Grey Knights, why not - and I'm going out on a limb here - fix the Grey Knights? Their origin story has the brotherhood trained by loyalists gathered from the ranks of the Traitors, so it wouldn't be a far cry to change them from the OU on that basis.

>>49937688
>simply give up on the project altogether and do something else.

Bye! Send us a post card!

>>49937831
>it's my way or the highway
And people call me bossy.

They call me less polite things than that, but let's not get heated.

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>>49937831
>Grey Knights
Let me be, entirely clear on my opinion here. Quite sufficiently. And I know this is coming, after Lumey/Froggy, but whatever I just got done with my studies over the weekend so anyone conflating us can go fuck themselves.

If you want Samurai Grey Knights, work it in. Do it. Have it make sense. I'm personally not sold on it at face value - give me something more, a skeleton, a framework, and I'll go with it. Don't just make parallels and say how cool it'll be. Give me something to work with and think about and be persuaded by. I am not an arbiter of content, though. It's just my opinion and my sign off on it. If you want that, if it matters to you, then this is what I want to see before I go in further.

Lastly, there shall be no use for the Lost Legions. That is why they are lost. For people, that is, the readers to infer and to add their own interpretations of their ultimate fate on their on conjecture. That is their role in canon, that is their role here too. I will not accept them being used in any way, shape, or format than that. This is a very meta reasoning, and less grounded than what others have laid out. I don't care. This is my reason for not liking it, and I will not persuaded. Similarly, I will not have the momentary attractiveness of this concept override what I see as part of the integrity of what I'm writing. Yeah, it's 40k fanfiction, but goddammit I'm not going to half ass a thing out of that justification.

>>49937631
>maritime samurai
So.... Terrible? The Japanese navy was pretty terrible until their modernization. Yi Sun-Sin beat the Japanese navy (whose fleet to invade Korea consisted of more than a thousand ships) with less than 50 ships. Admittedly admiral Yi might be the best admiral of all time, but the fact that in some battles they outnumbered the more and literally 100-1 and didn't sink a single ship should tell you something.

>>49937688
>1. It's taking an achievement of Malcador in order to make the Primarch special
It isn't. At all. Their primarch dies like a bitch and malcador takes over for them.

>have to go back to waiting
Yeah but considering that at least three legions are getting major overhauls, isn't that going to happen anyway?

>>49937688
I just got done writing a sensible retort and the browser refreshed on me.

I'm nothing short of peeved, and I'm not writing all that bullshit again, but let me respond to you in short. I have a feeling I'm never going to convince you, but I might convince others.

Your first point doesn't make sense to me. Isn't this an alternate Horus Heresy? Why do things need to be by the books all the sudden. And Malcador is still doing all the legwork, he just has everything he needs sooner.

I don't get 2 but that's probably because I'm new. Numbers wise they aren't a legion, same with Xenos Hunters. And throughout history they are hidden in secret, so you dont have to account for them

>>49938152
>First paragraph
>Yay!
>Second Paragraph
>Fuck

Well, since I can't win you over you should know that leaving room for fanon in fanon is kinda retarded.

>>49938510
No dude, I mean with waves and shit.

I should have said aquatic or some shit.
Read these
>>49932946
>>49934392

Like Japanese waves and shit on trim and banners

>>49938152
>That is why they are lost. For people, that is, the readers to infer and to add their own interpretations of their ultimate fate on their on conjecture
Yes, because that worked SO WELL in the OU.

>>49937941
Seriously, who are you?

>>49938563
>No dude, I mean with waves and shit.
Nah, keep that samurai naval tradition, so they lose every void battle they enter unless they can board the enemy... Where they STILL lose, because more an peasants keep throwing burning sticks onto their ship.

>>49938626
I'm honestly fine with this.

>>49938562
>Yeah but considering that at least three legions are getting major overhauls, isn't that going to happen anyway?
I don't know which Legions you mean. I'm guessing Crimson, 13th and Black Augurs? As long as all the new writing is about Traitors, I can work around it. Adding another Loyalist Legion is a problem.

>>49938563
Regarding the first point, things do not need to be about the books but they need some level of approachability. In addition, if you're trying to sell your guys as Grey Knights with a new paint scheme, it's probably best not to mention that things could be just plain different.

As for
> Malcador is still doing all the legwork, he just has everything he needs sooner.

I think you should revisit the legwork that Malcador actually had to perform during the Heresy.

Regarding 2, I have my doubts. Certainly, anything relating to the Inquisition is going to rub up against these guys - isn't it? If not, that seems to be even more problematic.

>>49938606
>who are you?
I'm the guy who wrote Gaspard Lumey, the Void Angels, and some other stuff besides.

>>49938510
>>49938626
You fucker. I wanted to be the one to properly mock the samurai in Admiral Yi's name.

>>49938650
What era were you planning to base their military doctrine off of?

>>49938717
>Adding another Loyalist Legion is a problem.
Alright, fair enough, but as robin said, they're the smallest legion and don't really do anything important till super late in the heresy.


Why are you going by froggy now?

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>>49938781
Because his legion and his IA/IG regiment are both French, so frog.

>>49938781
>they're the smallest legion and don't really do anything important till super late in the heresy.
I'm resigned to the Heresy sitting incomplete. If Ronin wanted guys to do all kinds of crazy stuff throughout that period, I would say, "Good luck!" because he would be hostage to other writers. Similarly, if he wanted guys to be very active in the Great Crusade, that wouldn't be much of a problem. But this concept influences the Reformed Imperium - what happens after the Heresy and the Scouring are done and the Traitor Legions are contained. I had thought that we had enough done to start talking and writing about that era. If this change goes through, anyone who thought they could be writing in that period is back to sitting on their hands.

>Why are you going by froggy now?
Because I like the name.

>>49938827
Wait, is that from the cutie Monstergirl comic?

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>>49938852
Death Korps Quest? Yes.

>>49938840
>I'm resigned to the Heresy sitting incomplete
Well yeah, I mean, GW hasn't finished their heresy after thirty years + 6 years of the horus heresy books. Did you expect us to finish ours in less than a decade?

>Because I like the name
Well pick a name and stick with it, you're scaring the children, you bastard.

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>>49938920
>Well yeah, I mean, GW hasn't finished their heresy after thirty years + 6 years of the horus heresy books. Did you expect us to finish ours in less than a decade?
We're not writing novels though.

>>49938991
JEAN-BAPTISTE. EMANUEL.

>>49938920
>Did you expect us to finish ours in less than a decade?
I hoped that the major members of the cast and outline would be settled within two.

>>49938996
We're in this for the long game, comrade! By the time you people are done outlining, some of us will actually be good writers, and ill be a good artist! Well start putting out novel length AU fanfics, with cover art and complimentary voices by yours truely!... Then GW will sue the cheap out of us, and we'll start over again!