>Dexfags

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>>49869519

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>>49869519
Yes, and?

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Dexfags.

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Dexfags

>>49869638
Spidey has both high DEX and STR stats.

>>49869714

he's not shabby with INT neither

>>49869519
>her face when she seen muh dick

Jokes on you I just stole your gold

>>49870044

Jokes on you it was counterfeit and the city guard is on the look out for people spreading fake cash

>>49869519
I'm guessing you're a big fat fucking blob of fat fucking fat fuck who likes to tell people you have a lot of muscle underneath. You know, from your MMA training. And black ops experience. And superpowers.

In other words, Strfag straight from the factory.

>>49870049
Jokes on you I planted it on one of the guards and he didn't even notice that I held hands with his wife

>>49869519
Wow, a single word of green text.

>>49869519
>>49869605
I came here to meme, not to fap you neck beards.

Side note:

Do strfags or dexfags experience a better fap?

>>49870088
jokes on you now she has your prints and you can't escape justice

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>>49870126

jokes on you it was a sting operation and I am Justice

I remember a faggot GM that made climbing and running checks dex when athletics are supposed to use the strength stat.

>>49869638
I bet you think that's "cool"

>>49869605
It takes a lot of strength to hold that pose

>>49870108
dexfags for sure, they're subtle enough to not tear the blood vessels in their dick as quickly while beating their meat, therefore they can do it longer, more times, and are not as sore afterwards. They also don't develop death grip syndrome. Best of everything really.

>>49870142
jokes on you I fucking love sting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib4uodmkaR8

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>>49870172
So let me get this straight.
If you want to have good, light, subtle handjobs you marry a thief.
If you want to have mindblowing, toecurling sex where her vagina basically eats up your dick, you marry a barbarian with impressive kegel muscles?

STR > DEX once again.

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>>49870152
>I bet you think that's "cool"

What, Spider-man? Hell yeah I do. Spidey is the best.

>>49870197
Quality build best build

>>49870197
>Y not both?

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What about CON?

>>49870214
fat people don't have CON

>>49870152
>I remember a faggot GM that made climbing and running checks dex when athletics are supposed to use the strength stat.
But Acrobatics is a Dexterity check.

>>49870222
Sprinting and climbing are not acrobatics.

>>49870242
Depends on the system and how they're interpreted, and what you mean exactly by "sprinting and climbing." Ultimately, though, most rules say the GM's judgment trumps all.

>>49870287
The GM's judgement was bullshit.
Not that it affected me in any way and I didn't fuss in game. My character had identical athletics and acrobatics.
It was just stupid as fuck.

>>49870242
I don't know why people who never practiced any kind of physical activity besides being gym rats try to talk about shit they don't know.

>>49870301
I'm talking about what's in the fucking book, retard.

>>49870308
Depends on the fucking book, cretin.

>>49870293
>It was just stupid as fuck.
Why? Acrobatics is Dexterity. Rock climbing is more about balance, so I could see why a GM would consider it Dexterity. Sprinting, meanwhile, would be aerobic (unless we're talking long distances), which means it doesn't quite fit the anaerobic nature of Athletics (and sprinting isn't listed under Athletics in 5e), so again, I could see the ruling.

Again, ultimately, it's the GM's ruling.

>>49870301
Wandering track star weighing in. Sprinting is athletics, not acrobatics.

>>49870365
Wandering in track seems like a bad idea.

>>49870381
kk

>>49870365
I don't disagree. Climbing, however...

>>49870355
>Again, ultimately, it's the GM's ruling.

Exactly. Sometimes, the rules as written don't fit.

Example: Intimidation is a Charisma check, but an uncharismatic big guy could be super intimidating through a display of strength, so couldn't it also be a Strength check instead?

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>not playing GURPS where a warrior will want more dexterity than strength because it helps reacting first, parrying and landing some well-placed attacks which ultimately do more damage than an attack with brute strength

What's the point of being strong if you can't land an attack or defend yourself?

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>>49870214
>Con

>>49870420
Climbing requires a lot of strength.

>Acrobatics (from Greek ἀkροβατέω akrobateō, "walk on tiptoe, strut"[1]) is the performance of extraordinary feats of balance, agility, and motor coordination. It can be found in many of the performing arts, sports (sporting) events, and martial arts. Acrobatics is most often associated with activities that make extensive use of gymnastic elements, such as acro dance, circus, and gymnastics, but many other athletic activities — such as ballet and diving — may also employ acrobatics. Although acrobatics is most commonly associated with human body performance, it may also apply to other types of performance, such as aerobatics.

Some games do classify climbing as Dex, and if the rulebook says it, go with it, but I don't think that makes much sense.

>>49870485
>Climbing requires a lot of strength.
Climbing requires a lot of balance, so it's a Dexterity check.

>>49869795
desu his constitution is pretty high too, and spidey sense is just jacked up wisdom.
Hes pretty charismatic too, as a popular hero and shit.

Mary sue cunt

>>49870485
>Climbing requires a lot of strength.
Have you actually done any kind of research on rock climbing?

I mean, some of the defining feats of acrobatics (tumbling, rings) require much more strength than actual rock climbing.

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>>49870521

Charisma

>>49870527
Are you talking about with gear or not?
Because climbing without the gear would be a lot more strength intensive.

>>49870566
>strength intensive
Maybe endurance-intensive, so a Constitution check.

>>49870566
I'm the guy he replied to, and I don't think characters would be carrying gear with them, hence why I'm saying it would be strength.

>>49870515
>>49870527
Yes, some of those ring guys are incredibly strong pound-for-pound, but it doesn't change the fact that the idea behind dex's acrobatics is nimbleness, agility, etc. Climbing a cliff, wall, or a rope is a matter of strength, unless the characters brought gear with them, which would probably factor into the game mechanics somehow. Constitution definitely makes more sense than dexterity, due to lactic acid build-up.

I'm no expert, but I've done some pretty elaborate rock-wall free climbing at the gym, and the limiting factor isn't balance, but grip, strength and endurance.

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Stat me

>>49870661
Climbing up a wall and maintaining your balance is definitely Dexterity.

If you're doing it for a long time, you'd also need to make a Constitution check.

A Strength check for climbing would make sense if you were encumbered somehow while climbing.

>>49870680
someone needs to draw more hands/10

>>49870688
Why are you just ignoring the fact it actually takes strength to climb up sheer surfaces?

Plenty of people are physically unable to do it or do anything severe due to a lack of strength.

>>49870688
Maintaining your balance doesn't make sense. It's not like climbing is walking a tight rope.

>>49870680
Small bonus in STR. Penalty in CON. Bad INT, because he wasted feats/levels so he can wear armor.

>>49870689
there are two hands in that picture, which is normally as many as there ever would be in a drawing of one man.

>>49870707
>Why are you just ignoring the fact it actually takes strength to climb up sheer surfaces?
Because it takes more balance than strength, especially when you're talking sheer surfaces.

Same way, while doing flips and swinging from a rope also takes strength, they're Dexterity because it's more about balance.

>>49870450

I dunno. People underrate the ST for warriors in GURPS.

The most successful fighters at my table has always been the ones that puts out bigboy damage

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>>49870214
That's not a CON build, this is a CON build.
There's a difference between fat, T H I C C and beefy. A CON build would be more on the beefy side.

>>49870727
>Because it takes more balance than strength, especially when you're talking sheer surfaces.
It doesn't, dude. Maybe you should try climbing something sometime.

>>49870717
they are the size of about a third of one hand, however

so he needs another four tiny gimp hands to make up for lost volume

>>49870711
Maybe this will help you understand the crucial importance of balance in climbing.

http://xtremesport4u.com/extreme-land-sports/how-centre-of-gravity-affects-your-rock-climbing-performance/

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>>49870744
thats just plain not true

if his forearm wasn't so fucking long, you'd be able to easily tell his hand is practically the same size as ol boy arnie here.

>>49870742
Dude, maybe you should, like, totally try it, too.

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Dexfag with flip ring and low encumberance

>>49870733

Wouldn't CON build be bearmode?

>>49870748
I don't need to read an article, because I've done it, as recently as this summer. Balance is a factor, but not the main limiting factor.
Furthermore, none of that would enter into the equation in a "sheer surface."

>>49870776
I have, you fat shit.

Rock climbing is used for strength training, for fuck's sake. But there's no point in arguing further with fatshits for whom physical activity is purely theoretical.

>>49870792
Wow, you're a cool dude. Can we be friends?

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>>49870790
I guess so. Bearmode and beefy are probably pretty much the same thing.

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>>49870214
>No endurance
>Low life expectancy
>Joints at the verge of collapse
>Ridiculously easy to kill, cause they can't dodge/fight/live/work worth shit with all that fat.

>CON build

Take your shit fetish and your (you) and get out.

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>Ugh, can't quite make it. If only I was a little more balanced!

>>49869795
MARY SUE

>>49870849
Hey man, I climbed as recently as last summer, you FAT SHIT. Climbing isn't just a theory to me.

>>49870854
>superhuman STR, DEX, CON
>peakhuman INT, CHA
>average WIS

>>49870849
>guy loses his balance
>he falls to his death

>>49870861
>spidey sense
>not giga-wis

>>49870865
yeah all that balance is whats keeping his hands from slipping

>>49870881
Listen here you fat shit I invented climbing so fuck off with your theories.

>>49870855
Summer ended Sept 22. I'm sure you've climbed more recently than him?

>>49870905
I'm climbing right now.

>>49870897
>I have no argument, but I am triggered that other anons are more physically active than me

>>49870855
>>49870897
You do realise how stupid you look right?

Its self evident to anybody who has done it that climbing heavily involves strength, it should be obvious in theory too.

>>49870911
And typing at the same time? That must take a lot of upper-arm balance to be able to hold on with one hand like that.

>>49870915
>I have no argument

See >>49870792

>>49870917
He doesn't, but let him continue. It's funny.

>>49870937
It's not nice to reply to yourself.

>>49870221
>>49870846

Nah, the high CON score lets you just tank all the associated health problems.

>>49870214

I agree, though, this isn't the thread for this ___cutie___

>>49870935
I see an argument there.

>done it
>balance a factor, not the main limiting factor
>no balance in sheer surface climbing
>rock climbing is used for strength training

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>>49870944
>implying samefag
Swing and a miss.

>>49870947
The entire argument is "personal experience" which is an anecdote that shouldn't be taken seriously because it comes from an anonymous stranger on 4chan.

>>49870927
No, I'm balancing myself on the rocks so I can use the laptop held balanced on my knees while simultaneously balancing these ledgers for my bank account. It's a very balance-intensive exercise.

>>49870957
That was one thing, but it wasn't the only thing.
Has it been your experience that balance is the main factor when you climb?
Is rock-climbing not used for strength training?
How does balance play a role when you're climbing a sheer surface like a wall or rope?

>>49870871
spidey sense is just treated as a sixth sense.

Just because your character class gives you the ability to occasionally detect impending danger aimed at you doesn't mean you have the collective wisdom of several Tibetan monks who've meditated on the meaning of life and the universe for 60 years each.

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>>49870956
>implying a screenshot proves you're not samefagging
I'm not new to 4chan, friend. Are you?

>>49870971
>That was one thing
No, that's your entire argument, hence me ridiculing you.

In fact, when an anon posted an outside source explaining why balance is important, you dismissed it based on a bullshit story and insults.

I have no reason to trust you so I don't.

>>49870990
And you're deliberately ignoring the rest of the post, even now?

Would you also ignore citations explaining why strength is important? Because it seems you don't even want to acknowledge those points in the posts you're replying to.

>>49870976
It says a lot about you if you can only respond to multiple people agreeing with baseless accusations.

>>49870990
So you have never seen a rock climber or tried to climb anything? You are going to ignore the objective fact rock climbing is a form of strength training?

>>49871011
I'm ignoring your "I climb every day you fat shit" bullshit argument, yes, because it's not worth paying attention to. It's a worthless argument devoid of merit.

>>49871028
So you're the dishonest one here. Glad we cleared that up, fat shit.

>>49871033
>dishonest
I'm not the one making up stories and lying on the internet.

>>49871028
And 'rock climbing does not require high levels of strength because that concept offends me' has merit?

You have yet to actually support the idea its not a high strength activity.

>>49871046
Intellectually dishonest. You must not have a very high INT stat either.

>making up stories and lying about climbing
lol, you really are fat, aren't you?

>>49871068
You're lying to people on the internet and making up stories.

If I were wrong in saying this, you'd prove me wrong. You can't because I'm right and you're a pathetic liar.

>>49871076
>I'm lying about having climbed before.

>>49871096
You absolutely are. Prove otherwise.

Fucking climbers i would build a wall to keep you out if it weren't for the fact you would just climb over it.

>>49871100
I don't have any pictures or video of myself climbing. It's not a rare or extraordinary activity for most people. If you don't believe me, I don't care.

>>49871103
Electrify it.

>>49871113
Thank you for verifying that you were lying.

I just want to make fun of dexfags like in Dark Souls

>>49871124
Actually, the fact that I don't have pictures of myself climbing isn't proof that I have never climbed, dipshit. I'll take one tomorrow at the gym just to trigger you.

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Stat me

>>49871132
More bullshit from the liar.

>>49871154
Like I said, I don't care, and I suspect that some part of you knows that you don't have an argument. It's just pathetic that you never even addressed the points from other anons.

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>>49871186

>>49870214
Fat people can have no good stats, fat people are just disgusting prices of indoctrinated shit, they're sickening

>>49870521
>D&D stats

>>49870762
okay, then his head is like five sizes too large

>>49871458
eyeballing it, it looks mostly okay, but only if you compare it to is height.

the proportions are all over the place, but depending on what you ignore its still kind of solid

>>49870355
In this case it's not a ruling, actually. There's no vagueness in the existing rules to make a ruling based on.
You would know this if you read the skill rules closely.

What your DM did was a house rule; overturning existing rules and replacing them with his own made-up idea.

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>>49870733
>A CON build would be more on the beefy side.

>>49870742
Maybe you should. It's more a stamina thing once you're past the level of being able to do a pull-up. Doing thousands of pull-ups isn't strength, it's pure endurance. Doing the really tricky shit when climbing? The jumps, the reach for a handhold? That's not strength either.

And no, being able to do pull-ups isn't being strong, just like counting to 10 isn't being wise. It's basic, average shit.

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>>49870214
>>49870946

What have you done

>>49870792
>Rock climbing is used for strength training, for fuck's sake.
And the rings are as well. Box jumping too.

So I guess everything now falls under strength, because for some reason you think you're a real strong guy because you've done a little bit of rock climbing.

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>>49870355
Scaling a cliff with specialized gear can be Dexterity, you could certainly use a proficiency in Climbers Kit (or even a liberal definition of Thieves Tools as second story gear) in combination with DEX. The Grey Mouser climbs the mountain Stardock in this fashion, with special-made gear.

But equipment-less or low gear climbing is STR.

If you want to Ninja over walls play some Monk variant with their Ki based step of the wind and such.

Hey guys.

Couldn't you make like.

Different checks for different situations of the same activity?

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>>49871549
For things like Tools, Kits and even Instruments, sure.
For pure uses of Skill, unaided by the above, you use the Skill proficiency plus the Stat associated with it.

This is only argued by Dex-build characters who feel entitled to be "duh Greatest" at every physical activity ever.

Give them this, and they'll start fucking asking for DEX based encumbrance.

>>49871518
>>49870792
Hey, Tards. Yeah you guys, shitting up the thread:
Your pissing match is tedious, your opinions are initially undermined by the fact that the actual D&D rules are crystal clear about what skill does what if you take the time to fucking read them, and even past that, it's still ultimately undermined by the fact that D&Ds stat system doesn't model reality perfectly to begin with.

It's insulting that you seem to think anyone other than you would care about your pointless brain dead shitflinging.

>>49871576
>D&D rules
D&D rules say GM gets the final say.

So as GM, I say Climbing is a Charisma check because it's all about having confidence.

>>49871576
Again, it's mainly faggots who want STR to be a complete dump stat forever.

>>49871549
That is a variant rule, and it's in the PHB.
The default rules are that each skill prof. is associated with a particular ability score, and it's explicitly stated which activities are acrobatics and which ones are athletics, beyond any reasonable doubt.

>ITT rock climbers thing they're strong guys

I'd say go back to /fit/ but we know they don't want you there either

>>49871587
What you do under your own roof with the system is completely up to you.
What you can do in someone's Roll20 session, home game or AL game is totally up to the rulebook.

>>49871600
>is totally up to the rulebook
Which means it's totally up to the GM.

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>>49871603
Yes, but interestingly this argument isn't made by GM's, it's made by petulant Dex-build players.

Otherwise there wouldn't be a discussion at all.

>>49871615
>Yes
Okay, glad we agree.

So now that we agree the rules vary between GM to GM, we can also realize how silly it is to argue them, and maybe drop the pointless discussion entirely and just live and let live.

This is what you get for not fusing Strength and Con into a single stat.

>>49870108
Doesn't matter, but dexfags get better fugg. Flexibility is far more important than bulging muscles for bedside skills.

>>49871630
Dude! Lewd.

>>49871626
>we can also realize how silly it is to argue

Again. it's entirely an argument started by Dex players who's DMs won't let them scale wall with their 18 Dex.

DMs don't sit around arguing this.

>>49871574
>I'm not actually carrying it all with pure strength, I'm balancing it on my back

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>>49871659
>carrying
>not Dexterity

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>>49871659
Shaolin do this in ye olde Kung Fu movies, but it's Ki, they ain't gotta explain shit.

>>49871647
I'm looking through this thread, and it appears the argument began when a "Str player" complained about a GM ruling "sprinting and climbing" as Dexterity activities.

>>49870152
>I remember a faggot GM that made climbing and running checks dex when athletics are supposed to use the strength stat.

>>49871647
Actually, it was that STR fag that doesn't think Spider-Man is cool

>>49871679
That's balancing a bunch of empty crap on top of your head.
Balance is well established as DEX based.
Or do you think those are solid bricks?

>>49871707
I'm just making a joke. You need to relax.

>>49871133

ABSjurer.

>>49870426
Because by that logic you could use any stat to intimidate. At that point, the entire game is exceptions rather than rules.

>>49870426
in most systems intimidate is a separate skill

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>>49871760
This orc is not intimidating in the least bit because his charisma is too low.

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>>49870528
>the pervy old man with the dirty magazines
>Tony Stark

10/10, complete list is complete

>>49870062
S-source?

>>49871790
You could say the same thing about a wizard wreathed in flame and crackling with lightning, or a cleric glowing with the power of his God, or a thief with one dagger almost touching your eye and the other resting comfortably on your fun bits.

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>>49871790
He's frightening, not the same as Intimidating.

>>49871732
D&Dfags are autistic, they don't understand jokes.

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>>49871846
Again, frightening or menacing, but not intimidating.

>>49869519
The implementation of power is considerably more significant than the degree of power being implemented. This applies in all situations, from combat to strategy.

A meatman hammering away at an enemy's shield is considerably less effective than the same meatman hammering at their unprotected side -- even less effective than a wimpy pussy hammering at that unprotected side.

Dexterity represents this ability to determine power's application. Therefore, Dexterity is superior to Strength, which usually represents raw power. Of course, in reality both have a real effect and so both are desirable; but even in reality you see that "dexterity" is superior to "strength" -- women CAN match or overcome men in single combat, despite their lower strength.

>>49871850
If he were standing in front of you, staring you down, you'd be intimidated.

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>>49871862
>women CAN match or overcome men in single combat, despite their lower strength.

>>49871850
>>49871861
Never said Intimidation can't be Charisma, just that it can also be Strength because people like >>49871790 are definitely intimidating.

>>49871889
So are smart people, wise people, and nimble people. Even people with a lot of endurance can be intimidating if they couple it with some form of torture method.

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>>49871879
No, I'd be in fear of my life.
That's NOT the same thing as being intimidated.
This little balding fellow uses the Intimidation skill on Tom's character.
Jason Vorhees does not intimidate campers.

Why do I feel like I can't possibly explain this to you, even with pictures?

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>>49871889
>are definitely intimidating.
Not as defined by D&D, which defines Intimidation as force of Charisma, and not being covered in spikes and blood.

Again, I am almost certain you aren't smart enough to eventually grasp this.

>>49871133
Freaky sex act 8/10

>>49871909
I think you're splitting hairs and being pedantic.

If that orc barked at you to go away or he'd crush you, you'd run away. That's an intimidation check.

You can't explain it "with pictures" because I already know a non-strong person can also be Intimidating and have said as much.

>>49871889
You can utterly fail to be intimidating if you have shit cha. You project yourself like shit, so you come off like a simpering idiot, trying to posture.

You try and threaten someone and you come off like a jackass.

>>49871963
>"heh, i wouldn't be intimidated by him"
Whoa internet tough guy.

>>49871956
>If that orc barked at you to go away or he'd crush you, you'd run away. That's an intimidation check.
No, it's not.
Just like if a rolling barrel of pitch came down a hill at me, it wouldn't be an intimidation check to see if I get out of the way. Or a flame monster with 0 STR for that matter.

Obvious physical menace =/= intimidation.

>>49871963

See: The big show basically forever. The guy is the least intimidating guy in a room with people he towers over.

>>49870742
What's the check for lifting your own weight? 8?
If it was all strenght even old wizbones could climb like a spider.

>>49871850
in·tim·i·date
inˈtiməˌdāt/
verb
gerund or present participle: intimidating
frighten or overawe (someone), especially in order to make them do what one wants.

>frighten [...], especially in order to make them do what one wants

heres two sitations

A: Halfthor Bjornsson walks up to you (hes like 7 feet tall or some shit and 420lbs, and can deadlift the car you drive to work), he leans down, puts his giant sweaty calloused hands on your shoulders, and screams as loud as he can, in his broken english "GIVE ME YOUR MONEY CUNT". The whole time shaking you like a leaf in a tornado, tightening his grip on your shoulders until you can feel your collar bone about to snap.

But, since his DM liked point buy, he had to sacrifice charisma for strenght, so that 20 strength thats about to rip your shoulders off, came at the price of a 8 CHA
(inb4 "I'd draw my katana and teleport behind him, using my dexterity to slice him in half")

B: Verne fucking Troyer the bard with a 20 CHA rolls up, puts his lute down, stands on it (hes 3'2 tall now), grabs you by the ass like hes about to give you a blowjob, and shakes you (really he pushes himself around because you're too heavy for him to move) while yelling GIVE ME YOUR MONEY CUNT" in his little mini-me voice.

You literally see NO reason for Halfthor to intimidate you more than Verne Troyer, the 2'8" tall actor that played mini me in austin powers?

>>49871978
Um, yes, making a threat to try to inluence another is an Intimidation check. What I described (the orc saying "go away or i'll crush you") is absolutely an intimidation threat.

>>49871970
If you got shitty CHA, right, NO ONE will be intimidated by you, because you come off like a self-absorbed fucknugget.

>>49871996
>an intimidation threat
*an Intimidation check

>>49871991

Being a size smaller than the target is -4 to your attempt to intimidate. So making them that far apart in size is a bit disingenuous as that's also a major factor.

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Also keep in mind that CHA isn't necessarily Charming or Suave, it's a measure of your ability to project the force of your personality upon others.
Some hulking uncharismatic huge orc would be bad at that, people would run from him because he;s dangerous, like a rabid dog.

People like pic related have Intimidation skill (probably specialization, really) and are good in spite of low STR (or height) and modest at best Charisma.

King Kong doesn't use Intimidate, he has a Frightening Aura. Trolls don't intimidate, they are menacing man-eating monsters.

>>49871956
Here's the difference between intimidating and menacing. If the Orc said "run, or I will crush you!" then I'm running. If he says "open this door and follow me inside, or I will crush you!" then I'm also running.

>>49871991
If he has 8 Cha, he comes off like an utter fucking moron the whole time. Like a total gibbering retard. You can't take this guy seriously at all.

20cha dwarf, on the other hand, has a hyper-intense presence that's just fucking terrifying. Logically, you know you shouldn't be scared, and yet here you are, shitting your pants anyway.

That's how it fucking works, you little shit.

>>49872012
>a very influential, very powerful man threatens you
>"heh, he's not intimidating because he's a size smaller than me"
>big guy? also not intimidating because he's not charismatic
Your rules are fucking stupid.

>>49871991
>frighten or overawe (someone), especially in order to make them do what one wants.
see
>>49871939
>Not as defined by D&D
D&D uses overawing by force of Charisma, as 99% of the Monster Manual is frightening and menacing to regular people.

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>>49872023

Case in point: A massively strong, huge guy who's pretty fucking shit at being scary.

>>49872042
>When you attempt to influence someone
through overt threats, hostile actions, and physical violence, the DM might ask you to make a Charisma (Intimidation) check.

You have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.

>>49872043
But in D&D, a scrawny guy with 8 Str and 20 Cha who threatens "to pound you" is more intimidating than a big guy with 20 Str and 8 Cha unless your GM is good and willing to modify the rules to fit the situation.

>>49872012
>hes not intimidating because hes small, thats not fair (while I ignore everything about the guy using strength to intimidate you)

>>49872029
So a man walks up to you and shows you that he could pull both of your arms off if he wanted to, and you go "no you cant, I'm not giving you any money at all because you don't have a personality"

Then you almost trip over a midget and shit all over yourself because he has a "hyper-intense" presence.

Are you actually autistic or do you just have such a high CHA that you never fail any bluff checks, because your presence is so hyper-intense right now I cant tell

>>49872067

Well yes...because Charisma 8 means that he's utterly terrible at getting that across. He likely sounded like he was trying hit on you with the threat of pounding you.

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>>49872043
Scary does not necessary equal Intimidating as far as D&D is concerned.
You can be scary as fuck an not able to use the Skill of Intimidation.
Intimidation in D&D is essentially the ability to cow or browbeat people into giving way WITHOUT the certainty of physical damage to them.

Hulk is scary; because there's the real threat of him just fucking you up. YES, he does fit the dictionary definition of Intimidating, but not the mechanical one of D&D which isn't the same.

>>49872069
See >>49872024. If a guy shows me he can tear off my arms if I don't do what he wants, I'm yakkity saxxing it out of there.

>>49872069
You still don't get what a fucking spastic retard you come off as at cha 8.

You literally don't understand how the rules work, how the fucking game works, and you are calling other people names.

Fuck off the edge of my dick.

>>49872075
>Well yes
Well no. The character receiving the threat would only misinterpret a clear threat of violence (which doesn't take 20 Cha to convey at all) if they weren't very smart themselves.

All you've done is convince me more and more that a character should be allowed to use their Strength when trying to intimidate a character with direct physical violence. It just takes them pounding their fists, being strong, and saying "you die" to get it across, and really, the extra muscle mass would benefit the threat way more than charisma ever would.

>>49872087
See >>49872051

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>>49872051
>through overt threats, hostile actions, and physical violence, the DM might ask you to make a Charisma (Intimidation) check.

Exactly, Rorschach might break some fingers and Intimidate a whole room of people who could dogpile his short ass. and get information.

Killer Croc would break your fingers and you'd scream and try to get away, because he's shit at Intimidation; he's simply strong and frightening. And really it'd never occur to him the need to Intimidate you.

You are confusing breaking rocks with stoneworking, really.

>>49872118

Should guy also be able to use his dex if he's doing knife tricks while he threatens you? Or con if he breaks a bottle over his head to show how tough he is?

>>49872105
Cha 8 isn't "spastic retard."

>>49872128
Probably time to give up. This idiot's never going to be convinced. He'd already decided the ULTIMATE TRUTH before he shat out his first word onto the page.

He also doesn't understand how important personality actually is, because flailing your fists together and shammering out "Y-yuu d-d-dieeee" in a highpitched whine is what you fucking DO when you have such shitty CHA.

>>49872132
No, because that's obviously just menacing. Only strength can be intimidating. Didn't you read >>49871861?

>>49872128
>Rorschach
>high charisma
Not at all.

>Killer Croc
>not intimidating
Again, wrong.

You're just proving more and more that being Intimidating can have nothing to do with Charisma.

>>49872155

Rorschach was pretty damn charismatic. He wasn't nice but that's not the same thing.

>>49872139
Yeah, it's /r9k/. Imagine a guy staring at his feet and muttering about how he's going to kill you, he's really going to kill you.

>>49870566
It doesn't take much strength tp hold your own bodyweight up, that's kind of the bare-minimum of acceptible RL Strength.

>>49872149
>Only strength can be intimidating.

>>49871889
>Never said Intimidation can't be Charisma, just that it can also be Strength because people like >>49871790 are definitely intimidating.

Your strawman, destroyed.

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>>49872128
Hannibal Lector is Intimidating; he can unnerve andand manipulate you through dread when he's behind unbreakable plexiglass and you are in no danger whatsoever.

That't the application of the SKILL Intimidate as intended by Dungeons and Dragons.

The Cenobites are terrifying demons who will tear you apart, they aren't using the Intimidate skill, they generally can't convince a teenage girl to do what they want, just scare the fuck out of her.

>>49872166
>Rorschach was pretty damn charismatic.
You own a V for Vendetta mask.

>>49872166
Alternatively, he just had really high ranks in the skill, without any in Diplo.

>>49872155
>Not at all.
Actually, if you read up, I said Rorschach has proficiency and probably specialization in Intimidation, neither his STR nor his CHA are terribly meaningful at that point.

>>49872182

I can think someone is charismatic without agreeing with their philosophy.

>>49872105
For sure, because rules are paramount to RPG's (rule playing games), where you get together with friends to roll dice and see what the rules let you do with that number you just got, then you tell all your friends "woah, look what the rules said I could do!"

That's how rule playing games all work, the great pastime of reading rule books to look at all the fun stuff it lets you do.

I literally understand the real life definition of the word, and I literally understand that the only reason people like fucking RPGs is because you can bend rules when you need to so that the game keeps making sense, and your 8' walking muscle of a fucking orc isn't a little pee-pants nancy because he has low CHA.

Maybe if your DM really wants, sure you can use CON for an intimidation check, like how about this

>thickdick the dorf is in a bar, an elf shows up and points his dagger at him and goes "fuck off, give me the rest of your ale and I'll let you live
>the elf rolls for intimidation, and fails even though he has a good charisma score
>the dorf rolls back, asks the DM if he can try some shit and use con for his intimidation roll
>DM says okay because hes not autistic
>thickdick grabs the elf by his girly wrist, and yanks his dagger right into his own goddamned chest like a mandman, tells the elf in a perfectly calm voice
>"a cannae foken tal ye 'ow mooch a wan' ye ta troy an' taek me ale"
>the elf shits himself and leaves the sword coast entirely, crying every time he sees a dwarf

>>49872167
8 Charisma is not "retarded." It's slightly below average.

>>49872194
He might appeal to you, the reader, but he's completely uncharismatic with the people he actually exists in-universe with.
Even Nite-Owl has difficulty being around him, later.

>>49869519
I think the easiest way to resolve this is to just give characters a circumstance modifier if they're a credible threat to me. I'm not going to be more intimidated by someone with 30 strength than I am with 20, and I'm not going to be more intimidated by either of them by I am by someone with a gun. They're all equally capable of killing me or making me suffer.

>>49872194
He's not charismatic to anyone in the comic.

He also fails to intimidate some people in the comic.

>>49872203

>I literally understand the real life definition of the word, and I literally understand that the only reason people like fucking RPGs is because you can bend rules when you need to so that the game keeps making sense, and your 8' walking muscle of a fucking orc isn't a little pee-pants nancy because he has low CHA.

What's the point of charisma if other stats can replicate the few skills it has tied to it?

>>49872226
Again, this is not Intimidation the Skill as defined by the game.

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>>49872132
Yes, actually I'd say that would be the case. I mean, it'd be situational, but if some shifty fuck started using knives in ways I've never seen before, I'd be goddamn nervous. If some buggy eyed nutjob walked up and started eating a glass bottle because he just doesn't give a fuck, I'd be fucking scared. Having charisma as a sole source of intimidation is retarded, because it means Johnny Depp is better at scaring me into doing what he wants than Andre the Giant or Frank Castle. On the other hand, just having Str be the decider, because yes, one can be intimidated in many ways. I mean, shit, I've been intellectually intimidated by folks. There's a lot of leeway here, not just a binary decision.

>>49872203
>your 8' walking muscle of a fucking orc isn't a little pee-pants nancy because he has low CHA.
Maybe if you don't want him to be a spastic retard, you shouldn't give him the personalty stats of one.

Just a thought, you fucking retard. You are what your stats say you are in the game. And you CHOSE to have the cha of your average /r9k/ user.

>>49872215

Yeah, that's a bit of an issue of conveying people in still pictures over a few key events. He comes across as pretty charismatic because we see him at his most dramatic moments and very few comic characters look bad in that.

>>49872229
Because Charisma is more than just intimidating people with the threat of physical violence from yourself, and it's fine if there's some overlap in a game. In fact, some flexibility is preferable over strictly sticking to rules when it's unrealistic or makes little sense to do so.

>>49872203
>thickdick grabs the elf by his girly wrist, and yanks his dagger right into his own goddamned chest like a mandman, tells the elf in a perfectly calm voice
>"a cannae foken tal ye 'ow mooch a wan' ye ta troy an' taek me ale"
If he has high charisma, then that just might come off as intimidating. As it is, it's pretty much hilarious. If you saw someone stab themself in the chest in real life, would you be afraid of them in anything more than the "this person is clearly insane, I should walk away from them briskly" sense?

>>49872244
>He comes across as pretty charismatic
He comes across that way to teenage nihilists and loners.
Sorry.
He mainly comes off as a paranoid and obsessive violent vigilante with a soft spot for the weak.

>>49872254

But if Intimidate can be other stats, why can't other social skills? Why can't the wizard construct careful, logical arguments and use his Int for diplomacy?

>>49872240
>big muscle-bound retards aren't intimidating
Huh? If anything I'd be more intimidating he's going to go full retard on my ass and retard smash me with his retard strength, retard.

>>49872229
Because for the vast majority of characters, who are medium sized and of average build, they do rely on their charisma and ability to make themselves feel threatening.
But characters like Rockpunch the 9' tall minotaur has garbage charisma because he doesn't even speak common, but fuckif he isn't still intimidating despite it.

>>49872240
>You are what your stats say you are in the game

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/v/

YOU say what you are in the game, your stats just ground you so its not a chain of "I teleport behind your back" like freeform RPGs

>>49872235
I'm on your side, dumbass. I think it's clearly a charisma skill; just give the strength autists +2 if their character is significantly stronger than the person they're trying to intimidate and nothing else is evening the odds.

>>49872278
Yeah, there's no reason to talk to you if you're going to ignore basic premises.

If you have Int 8, you're not pulling hyper-complex plans out of your ass.

If your Cha 8, you have shitty projection of personality, and come off like an idiot most of the time.

That's how the game fucking works.

>>49872278

>YOU say what you are in the game, your stats just ground you so its not a chain of "I teleport behind your back" like freeform RPGs

But isn't that exactly what you are trying to do by going 'Nah, I'm really good at Coercion because I'm strong'

>>49872284

Yeah, my general ruling would be '+2 if you have something to aid your case'. A fighter being hugely more strong than the other guy or a wizard with flames held in his hand would both get it. It's basically the iconic case for circumstance bonuses.

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Hobgoblin and Orc officers have CHA (13) high enough to have a +1 bonus, Warlords and Generals have a 15 CHA and actual skill in Intimidate.
Just being a large drooling spike covered homocidal Orc does not give you the ability to Intimidate as relates to the D&D skill.
It's CHA based, chumps, sorry if it's your dump-stat, you don't get to add "STR plus a bonus for whatever retardedly violent action I can think up".

Here's the real problem with the "Str = Intimidate" argument. What if I'm a dragon? What if I'm a wizard? What if I'm a knight in full plate with a spear? In all those cases, I don't give a fuck about your muscles. A 20 strength weaponless Orc is precisely as scary as an 8 strength unarmed weakling when I've got him clearly outmatched. Overcoming that disparity? That takes charisma.

>>49872300
>If you have Int 8, you're not pulling hyper-complex plans out of your ass.

Because thats literally something you can only do with high int, unlike scaring people into doing what you want

>If your Cha 8, you have shitty projection of personality, and come off like an idiot most of the time.

>most of the time
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING
Most of the time, yeah, until you're trying to intimidate someone who is half your size and who you could pick up and throw into the sun

>>49872306
No, because I'm not saying you can use strength to devise a battle plan, or DEX to bench press a car, I'm saying if you're real goddamned big you can intimidate someone into doing what you want and you dont have to be good with your words about it

>>49872267
It certainly could.

And you could use Charisma to determine if a person is lying or how they feel instead of Wisdom.

You could use Dexterity or Constitution over Strength to climb a wall.

You could use Strength to keep yourself steady on a boat by holding onto something instead of Dexterity.

It's pretty much up for the GM to determine what ability score (or ability scores) are relevant to the situation, and some of that comes with looking a the rulebook but also it's listening to the players and also using your noodle.

I think you're a bit too overly concerned about "balance" at the sacrifice of allowing things that make logical sense, like an uncharismatic yet muscle-bound thug to be intimidating.

>>49872323

Or basically any of those guys trying to stare down someone with no fear of physical pain. An old monk who's more concerned with the afterlife than the physical won't care much for pain but could be intimidated easily by someone with little power if he talks about the monk losing his immortal soul.

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>>49871829
Oji-san to Marshmallow, the heartwarming story of a woman who loves a man and a man who loves marshmallows.

>>49872329
>It's pretty much up for the GM to determine what ability score (or ability scores) are relevant to the situation, and some of that comes with looking a the rulebook but also it's listening to the players and also using your noodle.

At this point you should just play your own game of make-believe, and not adhere to any system of rules.

>>49872326
Why would someone with big muscles be more intimidating than someone holding a pistol to the back of your head, or someone wreathed in arcane fire?

>>49872322
Yeah, that's the biggest annoyance, really.

It's just some retard speging about how he shouldn't be punished for dumpstatting something.

Maybe don't dumptstat nextime, fuckface.

>>49872361
Except there clearly are still rules.

>>49872377
No, there aren't at that point, you're just "discussing with the players" on how shit should be weighed, and rolling a d20 at it.

>>49872349
Exactly. Honestly, given everything in D&D, some musclebound Orc is probably one of the least intimidating things you can encounter. It can't tear you apart and heal you over and over again until it gets bored. It can't slowly devour your mind, leaving you with only fond memories of not being a drooling vegetable. It can't pull out your soul and chew on it for a month while everything you were slowly fades away. It can't corrupt you into a twisted shadow of what you once were and leave you feasting on the flesh of those you loved.

>>49872365

Yeah. I mean, let's use the hobgoblin example.

13 charisma (+1) + Training (+5) + Waving A Sword In Your Face (+2 Circumstance) is as scary as someone with 17 charisma and training or TWENTY SEVEN charisma and no training.

The old GM tool of a +2 circumstance bonus for a good justification is as good as having 4 extra points of charisma.

>>49872349
Well then your DM could just fucking tell you that?

Unless everyone you're trying to intimidate is an old monk, you won't have any real problem with it, and having a problem with intimidating him by force on this occasion and needing someone who actually knows what he values when you might not have that person would create a problem you need to overcome, and keep the game interesting.

Fuck I don't get how hard a concept this is.

Same goes for these, >>49872323 sometimes shit doesn't work and s job to not be like this idiot this idiot >>49872361 and just stare at numbers and rulebooks without thinking about the actual game they're in charge of

>>49872362
They might not be?

If the big muscles guy can use his big muscles to scare you, he should.
If the gun to the back of the head guy is currently behind you with his gun, thats pretty intimidating.
If the arcane fire guy wanted to set me on fire for not doing what he said, I'd sure as dicks do what he said.

I'm all for using the "wrong" stat for shit in certain situations, I don't know why you're trying to stump me by basically using my argument.

>>49872401
>It can't tear you apart and heal you over and over again until it gets bored. It can't slowly devour your mind, leaving you with only fond memories of not being a drooling vegetable. It can't pull out your soul and chew on it for a month while everything you were slowly fades away. It can't corrupt you into a twisted shadow of what you once were and leave you feasting on the flesh of those you loved.

Yeah, but if whatever can actually do that doesn't have high CHA, then its not actually scary because they stutter

>>49872402
>+ Waving A Sword In Your Face (+2 Circumstance)
This is not a thing, it shouldn't BE a thing, it's a dumb idea.

This is the magical realm of face-melting Wizards and flying 20 ton carnivores; it isn't your nephew's daycare center.

>>49872414
Because what you're arguing is that someone with 30 strength should be immensely more intimidating than someone with 12 dex and a pistol at the back of your head, or 12 int and a cloud of flames billowing around his outstretched hand.

>>49872421
>, then its not actually scary because they stutter

INTIMIDATION IS A SKILL, IT IS NOT A RAW MEASURE OF HOW FRIGHTENING OR MONSTROUS YOU ARE

Jesus Christ.

>>49872423

Well, that's presuming it's someone who 'A sword' is intimidating to. It's also the realm of the warrior who can get so good at murder he can eventually walk up and murder the current god of murder with his sword and take his job.

>>49872392
No, there are still rules (otherwise you wouldn't be rolling at all) and you really ought to listen to your players.

>>49872423
Then neither should a bonus for being big and muscular.

>>49872440
He's reduced to strawmen because he has nothing left. Basically just throwing a tantrum after being blown out repeatedly. Just ignore his dumbass.

>>49872440
Intimidation is a skill where you scare people into doing what you want them to do, so a scary/frightening/monstrous creature should be good at it.

>>49872445
>Well, that's presuming it's someone who 'A sword' is intimidating to.
Which is why it's stupid to conflate Intimidation THE SKILL, with physical menace in the first place.

>>49872392
>interpreting the rules means there are no rules
Huh? But that's wrong, anon.

>>49872421
They're scary, but they're not intimidating. They'll make me run, but they won't make me stop.

>>49872461
Then when you build that monster, give them ranks in that skill. It's really not hard.

>>49872354
thanks

>>49872465

I wasn't. I was saying that physical menace could provide a bonus. A wizard could provide the menace by bouncing a fireball in his hand or a rogue could get a bonus by putting the false ledger you give the tax man down on the table.

>>49872431
Not if he cant use that strength to scare you, though

Just because you can use STR for intimidate doesn't mean your DM is always going to let you, like for example if you're bound, or the enemy you're fighting is even stronger than you are, because you're basically fucked and you need someone scarier.

>Because what you're arguing is that
Thanks for letting me in on that, I didn't know what I was arguing, good thing you're here to tell me.

Lets go back in time
>>49871991
Read my example of when I thought you should be able to use strength to intimidate someone, and tell me how the fuck I'm wrong

>>49872440
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intimidate

>>49872472
>they're scary. but they're not intimidating

and if they scare you into doing what you want, they just intimidated you

>>49872472
>give them ranks in that skill
There aren't "ranks in skills" in D&D any more.

You're discussing a very outdated version of the game. I'm not.

>>49871499
Endurance is governed by STR, not CON.

>>49872489
no, everything is a number on a paper and NOTHING ELSE

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>>49869519
>not overleveling and going STR + DEX + INT + CHA

>>49872491
Endurance is Constitution accord to the rules.

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>>49872461
>ntimidation is a skill where you scare people into doing what you want them to do
It's in the book as an "attempt to influence someone"
>so a scary/frightening/monstrous creature should be good at it.
No, because by default they expect your reaction to be run in terror/freeze in terror/scream for mommy, not to decide against searching their luggage or to divulge information to them.

They are simply scary.

>>49872496
There's no rules for pee-pees or poo-poos so my character never uses the restroom.

>>49872488
>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intimidate
You aren't playing 5e Merriam Webster, it's irrelevant to the game's written rules or mechanics.

>>49872508
>It's in the book as an "attempt to influence someone"
You cut off the definition to soon. It's "an attempt to influence someone through overt threats, hostile actions, and physical violence." Not just "an attempt to influence someone" (which would also cover persuasion and deception).

>>49870355
Distance running should be a constitution based check. 90% of it is tell your muscles to fuck off when they tell you they're tired and want to stop.

>>49872517
You're also not playing a video game where you're bound to doing one of three things based on what the game engine will let you do, but that concept is scary for you I guess.

>>49872519
*too soon

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Holy fuck, it's autism central.
It's both entertaining and sad. I don't know which one more.

>>49872167
/r9k/'s more along the lines of 5 or 6, maybe 7 if they are lucky. And a few 3 CHA sperglords sprinkled in there as well.

>>49872527
This guy gets it.

>>49872529
So does this guy.

>>49872529
No, we're just sick of you dumpstatting, then whining that you are getting punished for dumpstatting.

Don't dump Cha next time, fuckface, and you won't have to play a stuttering manchild that no one's afraid of.

>Inb4 more whining about video games

Guess what, fuckface, you're roleplaying your bad stats. Deal with it.

>>49872519
>overt threats, hostile actions, and physical violence

um. no.

a living potato with 20 CHA and nothing else, who needs to be carried around by someone else in the party, is a god tier intimidator because he has such a hyper-intense presence in the room

>>49872488
Ok, but you're still saying "if he's threatening you with his bare hands, he gets a +10 to intimidate. If he threatens you with magic, he has a +1."

What I'd say for your example is that Halfthor gets a +2 to intimidate, because he's clearly dangerous to me. Verne gets a -2, because he's clearly not dangerous.

Also, again, you're conflating frightening with intimidating. If a monster threatens to kill me if I don't run, then yes, it got me to do what it wanted. But if it wanted me to open a door for it, and instead I bolt, then it didn't. The instinctive reaction to a giant monster is "oh fuck, run!" and not "better stay in close proximity and do what it wants." Hence, frighten versus intimidate.

>>49872561
>um. no.
Um, yeah.

I just copy and pasted what is in the current edition of D&D. "Overt threats, hostile actions, and physical violence" are the words they use.

You are wrong.

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>>49870733
Like so?

>>49872600
Skyrim 2's looking good.

>>49871991
I'd argue that Verne automatically fails, because he didn't attempt to use the skill. It's like opening a persuasion check with "hey, asslicker!" or rolling a climb check by saying "I grab the first handhold with my buttcheeks."

>>49870199
Spiderman is utter shit. He hasn't had a good comic since you've fucking been alive.

>>49872560
>dumpstatting

I'm rolling a scary half-orc barbarian, but I dont want to dumpstat so I'll put that 8 I rolled into strength so that I'm still intimidating

>you're roleplaying your bad stats

no, I'm roleplaying my good stat when it makes sense for me to.

>>49872563
>But if it wanted me to open a door for it, and instead I bolt, then it didn't

So if someone with high CHA intimidated you and succeeded its check are you still going to just go "yeah but I didn't open the door and ran away anyway"

When someone says they're going to kill your whole family, you fear for your family and you do the thing for the guy so they don't die. When someone says they're going to smash you into pudding, you fear for yourself and you do the thing for the guy so you don't die.
You cant just say "it scared me so instead of doing what they wanted when they win the intimidation check, I run away in fear"

>>49870355
Sprinting is in fact an anaerobic activity because you're burning the oxygen available to you faster than you can take it in. Distance running is the opposite. The more you know.

>>49870944 (You)

Here's your (You).

>>49869605
>dat ass doe

>>49870450
Nah, Strength and Health are the godstats for low tech warriors in GURPS. Dexterity is great, but you can get high skill cheaply and more damage + better survivability is a Big Deal.

Can't we all just be nice to each other?

>>49872735
Being nice is a Charisma check so no.

>>49871862
>what

Dude, naw. Weight classes exist for a reason, you know.

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>>49872806
because the featherweights would embarrass everyone else with their masterful footwork?

Everyone knows larger muscles and longer limbs just means you have that much more dead weight slowing you down, making you useless in a fight.

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>>49872537

>>49872823
That is fantasy, though. In fantasy, a small but agile character can defeat the larger, stronger opponent.

>>49872806
We're not talking about sports, anon, we're talking about actual fighting. With weapons.

Matt Easton's got some video going on about technique (read: dex) being more important than weight and strength (although the two remain factors), and there's some other HEMA faggot saying the same thing, and using a short female fencer within his group as an example.

>>49872854
it doesn't have to be fantasy for that to happen, I just wish people would use a method other than "they're just so much gosh darn faster" as the justification.

>>49872823
How could you lose if you never get hit? How could you lose if you're the only person doing any damage? And remember: your damage is aimed at all the weakest, undefended regions.

Potential strength doesn't mean shit if it never sees use.
>>49872854
Ironically, it is only in fantasy that strength could triumph.

>>49870195
Jokes on you I am sting now hold my hands and love me bitch

>>49872621
Congratulations, you now understand the difference between being intimidating and frightening. If they manage to intimidate me, then they've convinced me I'm going to die if I don't do what they say, and might live if I do. If they don't, then they've managed to convince me I'm going to die if I stay, and might live if I run.

>>49872919
I agree.

>>49872945
>they've managed to convince me I'm going to die if I stay
In D&D, that's Intimidation.

Frightened is a condition caused by spells.

>>49872945
>If they don't
If they fail their intimidation attempt, you're not going to run because you aren't intimidated by them and don't find them a threat.

You're not going to be frightened. Failed intimidation attempts don't cause the frightened condition.

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>>49870881

Technically it's the toughness of the skin on his hand, otherwise he'd just slip painfully down the rope.

So climbing requires CON!

As much as everyone hates to hear this, how a stat or skill works is entirely dependent on how the GM wants.

If they're intimidating with words and presence, then charisma sure.

If you're intimidating by some kind of feat of strength, I say strength will work for it so long as you can justify it clearly and believably to me as DM.

RAW-fags are the worst of the hobby.

>>49873115
THATS NOT WHAT THE RULES SAY FUCKFACE

>>49873122
As DM I say what the rules mean.

If I don't like a rule, I change it or don't use it.

You know, how it says in the book to do.

>>49872940
How do you "never get hit" and "only do damage" against an opponent that is both larger and faster than you are.

Teleporting behind him with your hattori hanzo, perhaps?

>>49873082
literally everything requires CON then

>>49872979
>>49873035
You're clearly too dumb to live, but let me try this one more time. If they're trying to convince me to cooperate with them, and fail, then they did not successfully intimidate me. They didn't convince me to do what they wanted, so I remain convinced that I should do what I wanted. If I think I can take them, I might attack. I might think I'm fast enough or well-trained enough to beat them, even if that's not accurate. But if I don't, and I think I can escape, I'll probably retreat. That's not because they've inflicted the frightened condition on me, it's because I'm genuinely afraid for my life. I believe that they can and will harm me, but ultimately I didn't do what they wanted me to do.

I also might pretend to cooperate and then escape as soon as they're distracted. I might sound an alarm and hope it'll be too much trouble to kill me before the guards arrive. I might lie to them and pretend I can't help them; I don't have the keys, or know where to find them. I might stare them down and tell them to go ahead and do it, because my boss will kill me and my family and their family if I cooperate. Again, I'm afraid of them, but they're not able to leverage that fear into cooperation. That's what the intimidation skill is.

>>49873161
Within the rules, if a character tries to Intimidate another character: on a success, they'll do the thing; on a fail, they don't do the thing (and they aren't frightened).

Realistically, that's also how it works. If someone makes a threat and it fails on you, that means you don't find them threatening, so no, you won't be afraid. Even outside the rules, what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

>TODDLER: Imma cut you bitch
>YOU: That's funny, now I'm going to run away in fright.

I can only regard what you're doing as trolling, so this will act as my final reply to you.

Best regards,

Anon

>>49872940
>how could you lose if you're the only person doing any damage
I dunno, ask my overwatch team about that.

>>49873202
I laughed.

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>>49873145

Damn straight.

>>49873277
That's fucking dumb. You're dumb.

>>49873277
Yep.

>"I want to persuade the guard that he should let me in the gate"
>it's a test of your patience and endurance, so Con check

>"i want to swim across the sea"
>that takes a lot of energy and stamina, so Con check

>"i want to do a backflip"
>you're really exerting yourself there, so Con check

>"i want to translate the ancient scroll"
>it's exhausting work, so Con check

>>49873196
Nice strawman. Did you miss the part where I said "if I think I can take them, I might attack"? We're discussing the scenario where someone is frightening - that is, presents a clear danger to me - and fails to intimidate me. If a toddler rolls intimidate, and they fail, then obviously that's not the scenario I'm talking about.

But hey, keep strutting around like a pigeon when you're too dumb to even understand the conversation. No skin off my nose.

>>49873143
>both larger and faster
>and faster
Nigger this is about strength vs. dex, not low dex vs. high dex.

They're not faster -- they're slower. But they're stronger.

>>49873357
Again, I'm no longer interested in this troll where you misunderstand the rules of the game, what intimidation is, and what it does.

Your "emperor's new clothes" argument where "if I disagree, I'm a dum-dum" is transparent and boring.

>>49873385
>ou can change another’s behavior with a successful check. Your Intimidate check is opposed by the target’s modified level check (1d20 + character level or Hit Dice + target’s Wisdom bonus [if any] + target’s modifiers on saves against fear). If you beat your target’s check result, you may treat the target as friendly, but only for the purpose of actions taken while it remains intimidated. (That is, the target retains its normal attitude, but will chat, advise, offer limited help, or advocate on your behalf while intimidated. See the Diplomacy skill, above, for additional details.) The effect lasts as long as the target remains in your presence, and for 1d6×10 minutes afterward. After this time, the target’s default attitude toward you shifts to unfriendly (or, if normally unfriendly, to hostile).

>If you fail the check by 5 or more, the target provides you with incorrect or useless information, or otherwise frustrates your efforts.
Oh, hey, you're wrong. But go ahead and quote me 5E's version if you think it's an edition difference instead of just you being an idiot.

>>49873731
5e only gives examples of what context Intimidation would be used, and in the DMG gives a baseline of what possible DCs by difficulty level.
Ultimately the results of what happens in an Intimidation check's success or failure is up to the DM.

So it is an edition difference.

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>>49873299

>too tough to get tongue removed
>too hard to intimidate to get tongue tied
>no mental block can stop me
Can't be dumb with a high CON stat!

>>49874076
Yes you can and you are.

>>49870680
Class: Muscle Wizard
Class Features: uses STR as casting stat in place of INT, armor worn on the lower half the of the body grants 1/2 the AC bonus and does not affect chance of spell failure.