Nemesis or Frenemy

Enemies with mutual respect is much better story wise personally. Though that requires them to be of similar enough idealogies to nit instantly hate each other. The dwarf and the elf bonded over their love of competition for example.

>>49859351
I don't think those stand roughly on the same level. A nemesis is someone who seek the downfall of, a frenemy you just like to challenge. The relationship between characters like Gimli and Legolas are an entirely different level to the relationship of, say, Frodo to Sauron.

>>49859573
I suppose!

I guess I'm wondering if people would prefer to have an enemy they want to see utterly defeated, or an enemy they like to be at odds with.

Someone you despise, you want to see them crushed. Someone you respect, you're willing to go another round.

>>49859717

You kind of need both as separate characters. Catwoman can never really be the big bad, and if she is then Batman is suddenly dealing with some serious internal conflict.

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>>49859351
>frenemy
>a enemy that you actually like?
>an enemy who, if circumstances were different, would be a friend?

A frenemy is someone you act friendly toward, but who you really dislike and probably consider a rival.

For example, If you have someone in your friend-group who you secretly think is a jerk because he's competing for the woman you love, and you plot against him, that person would be considered a frenemy.

>>49860355
I thought it meant friendly-enemy! What would you call a enemy you like, then?

>>49860444
I think that's just called having respect for your foe, there's not really a term for it I'm aware of.

>>49860444
You learn something new every day, trips-anon.

>What would you call a enemy you like, then?
I'm not sure. The first ones I think of are "respected rival" or "respected enemy". Tvtropes calls the concept "friendly enemy" or "worthy opponent". Something along those lines should get the point across.

>>49859351
pic are neither, just buttbuddies

>>49860714
You sure do!
Worthy Opponent is a good way to put it! Certainly sounds better!

Personally, I prefer Worthy Opponents instead of a Nemesis. I'd love to play a campaign where there isn't a BBEG at first, you're just competing with a rival who you respect.

Actually, can a opposing adventuring party work? Like, same number of members, comparable in their group make up, but are opposed to you in some way.

Nothing beats a good nemesis.
Make me hate that fuck.
Make me hate him so hard that my character will do ANYTHING to see his cold dead body before his feet.

Drive is what makes the story and game worth it, and there are few stronger drives than hate or revenge. Especially in game medium, where "love" is hardly accesible, because game has little means to make you really love characters your PC is supposed to love.

Hate is easy to induce, and it really makes character going.

>>49859351
oftentijmes i think you want both

the main bad guy is deplorable and awful, and you want him to suffer a horrible fate

the main bad guy's main henchman is a worthy opponent, a cool, fair dude who just follows the bad guy's orders because it's his job. you don't want him to suffer, but you want to beat him because he's a cool dude with a fiery lance or something. maybe the climax of the story involves you turning this guy against the main bad guy who seems unbeatable, and then you team up for a cool moment and then do a fist bump later

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>>49860444
If you like portmanteaux, why not bropponent?

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Goddammit, "frenemy" is not a real word, and we already have a word for that thing: Rival!

Best Frenemy coming through

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>>49861651
forgot

>>49861549
Isn't a rival an ally that you despise utterly?

>>49859351
One of each, plus an antagonistic fuckbuddy.

>>49862196

It's generally someone who you are in friendly competition with. Like you might hang out and talk sometimes, but when it comes down to it, each of you knows there's no holding back. Rival teams in minor sports are often seen to go out drink and party afterwards. (This is less common in big name sports where a lot of money is on the line, and less common today than say, thirty years ago.)

Worthy opponents are a lot of fun in lighter settings.

>>49860970
A nemesis like this is better in more serious settings.

>>49862339
Rival can include any sort of competition. For instance, one might say that russia has a rivalry with the united states, or that target and walmart are rival retailers.

>>49861549
That can be anywhere between guy you like but compete with, to asshole you're sworn to stop

>>49862440
>>49862494

Yep, it's a versatile word. And it doesn't sound retarded like "frenemy."

Vermintide has a great selection of ways to do it, all with great bants thrown into the mix.

>>49860986
That's such an old and tired cliché that even its subversion has become a cliché itself.

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>playing M&M campaign
>our first real nemesis is a speedster with improved durability (likes to full body slam into things and/or us at top speed) who's entire motivation for being a villain is that he fucking loves fighting heroes
>like, fuck the money, he's just robbing this bank because he knows the alarms alert the Heroes Guild before the cops (this is very illegal)
>never tries to finish anyone off when he wins a fight, just lords it over us and bails before backup arrives
>can be counted on to team up with us against serious threats (kaiju attack on the city, for instance)
>dies valiantly in said kaiju attack, fighting side-by-side with the party
>entire group's face when

It was a good campaign.

>>49860444
Skumgrod

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>>49859351
Little of both
A Fremesis, if you will

>>49859351
The correct dichotomy is nemesis vs. archenemy.

Your nemesis is someone you hate but would go out for drinks with. Your archenemy is someone you would pretend to like, just to get them to go out for drinks and poison their drink.

>>49863632
Heat is such a fucking great movie.

>>49860820
That's literally what I'm about to do to my group starting a new campaign in about 30 mins

>>49860820
>>49864561

That's one of my favorite ideas, and it adds a lot for the players too

>>49862339

Archie & Reggie

Betty and Veronica

>>49859351
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/there_but_for_the_grace_of_God_go_I
It's done to death but it's my guilty pleasure.