/btg/ - BattleTech General

Old thread:
>>49800145

I'll hold your Butte, if you know what I mean?

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GAS THE CLANS! SPACE WAR NOW!

I'm still a newfag to battletech, playing AtB.
It's been going well and now I have 31 prisoners. What the heck do I do with them (other than hiring the ones that are willing)? Just free them?

Gas the caps space war now

>>49854543
Sack 'em. Right click on the prisoner's name in the personnel screen, then select Sack.

>>49854543 >>49854680

Ralgith is not done with his "plug-in system", else you could define your own actions, like "Use them in your supersoldier breeding program", "Sell" or "Slaughter for meat" so sadly the only sensible action right now is to heal them for the XP for your doctors, then let them go.

If you feel sadistic, let them go while in flight, which implies "out of the airlock".

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>>49853207

I mean, tw says I myst choose up to 5 hexes in a row. If, for example, I have a seyditz and am strafing two mechs in a line, yes, I roll with a +4 mod to hit for each, and facing is based on where the attack is coming from, but with that one LL, am I hitting only one mech for eight damage, both mechs for eight damage, or both mechs for four damage?

>>49854747
>"Sell"

You do get C-bills for capturing enemies - fifty thousand for a regular 'Mech driver, IIRC.

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>>49854811
TW doen't make it clear, but if you look at the old Aerotech2 rules (page 24) it's simple: With direct-fire energy weapons every target in the hex is attacked for maximum damage, so if there are two targets for a Large Laser then both take 8 points.
The catch is that you have to attack every target in the hexes, even friendly units.
With ballistic and missile weapons a targeted strike is made, with only a single target being attacked.
This is why all fighters should have at least one laser - strafing attacks can be very powerful. Dedicated ground attack aircraft should have a good autocannon as well, to avoid friendly-fire incidents.
Personally, I recommend nuking the site from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

>>49854325
Every time I see Amos' face, I want to say "See you at the party, Richter!" But that bastard didn't even have his arms ripped off.

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>>49855190
>Personally, I recommend nuking the site from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

We got seven canisters of CN-20. You don't want to try that first?

>>49854291

Regarding last thread's autism spiral between "canon fluff" and "tabletop fun", I have an observation.

>I'm not going to respond further and have no interest re-igniting the shitfit, but I feel I should comment seeing as it's about the MoC.

Both sides are partly right. As usual, sanity lies in the nuance between them.

The canon fluff is what it is. 3025 MoC Mech selection *is* incredibly boring and limited. If you're going to play 3025 MoC, then you need to be prepared to suck it up and deal with that. Dealing with the crappier parts of a faction is part of what playing a faction *means*. Drac players have to deal with fielding a ton of Panthers and Dragons. Lyran players should have to deal with crappy Strategy/Tactics bonuses on the part of their unit COs. Suns players would have to deal with crappy part of their faction if those crappy parts existed.

So there's the MoC fan part of the argument.

With all that said, there's also the point that this *is* a game, and one of the purposes of playing it is to provide a fun experience on both sides, and if a scenario is set up where that's impossible, then the scenario is bad. There's nothing wrong with a scenario just using Shads&Bugs when the MoC player knows that's what's happening going into the game, and knows that he's either going to be facing appropriate OPFOR for S&Bs, or that there's a sort of scenario objective where he's trying to accomplish something, whether that's a fast raid against a heavier (and slower) OPFOR, or whether he's trying to hold the line as long as possible against a superior foe, and success is based on how *long* he can do it, not whether or not he ultimately gets overwhelmed. A huge chunk of scenario design is making the fluff work FOR you in such a way that both players have the chance to enjoy the game. A scenario which is just a line fight with S&B vs Davion Assault Guards is simply bad design.

That's the GM part of the argument.

As usual, nuance matters.

>>49856868
No, nukes first. Crack things open so the gas can get in.

>>49856917
>fuck the character limit

Would I *like* it if the MoC had better Mech selection? Yeah, of course. I did say "boring and limited", after all. But if you're going to make a committment to run a purely fluff-accurate force list, then you're just going to have to deal with the fact that S&B make up most of the MoC force structure and find ways around that when doing scenario design.

If you don't want to deal with that, then that's ALSO fine. Give them a wider selection of stuff to use in scenarios, and as long as the scenario is well-made and you're not making pretenses about 100% fluff accuracy, then everybody who is worth having in your games should be fine with it. You aren't being 100% fluff accurate, and that is ALSO OK; just don't claim you are being completely accurate to the fluff. This happens in official scenario design all the time, so there's nothing wrong with it happening at home. Having to choose between scenario and fluff is perhaps the most common "hard" choice made by scenario designers, and there's nothing wrong with either choice, as long as the scenario is fun.

That's it.

How reasonable would it be to replace the TAG in the Ti Ts'ang with a C3 Slave, if that was my only modification for a BV match?

>>49857097

Check with your opponent to see if they're OK with it.

However, from a fluff perspective the Capellans have fuck all in the way of C3.

From a gaming perspective there is literally no reason to use C3. For the same price as a C3ed Lance you can afford to upgrade everyone from the base 4/5 skills to 3/5 and never have to worry about ECM or losing your Master unit.

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>>49856868
>We got seven canisters of CN-20.

It's worth a try, but we don't even know if it will affect 'em.

>>49857482
>However, from a fluff perspective the Capellans have fuck all in the way of C3.

They do have some, but the majority of them apparently carry master-computers.

>>49856917
>>49856963
Hey NEA I had a question but stop me if I've asked you before.

If you were recreating the battle of Manila Bay (1898) with Star League era warships, how would you do so with the Spanish and US squadrons?

>>49858117
No joke about Coleman or munchiness or whatever intended, but the tech and equipment that becomes available to the Confederation in the early 3060s onwards really surprises me. If they had so much potential I can only wonder what things would have been like in someone like Sun-Tzu had taken the throne instead of Maximilian Liao.

>>49858255

If you read the FM unit entries the AFFC/AFFS somehow manages to field almost as much as the Dracs. And since the machines they have that carry them aren't mostly refits of shitty 3050 field upgrade kits that sacrifice a SHS or ML for a C3 Slave, they wind up having a higher quality level too.

It is what it is. The CapCon having it is barely noticable compared to that.

Can someone post a link to the mech walk animations synched up with Stayin Alive? I tried to find them on youtube by my skills are weak.

>>49857482
Oh this is thoroughly un-fluff, my C3 Master is an Ares

As to the BV stupidity, I'm running 3/4s (Ares and 2 Ti Ts'angs) and counting on the Force Size multiplier to help me out. It's silly, but my opponent is terribad and I wanted an excuse to try out some new Tech and my Tripod mini.

>>49858553
>somehow
They have superior industry and scientists, and multiplied in the AFFC years, so that one makes sense. Makes the CapCon's that much more noticeable.

>>49858808
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=822Nq5ugStE

>>49858998
That's the problem, no one SHOULD have anything superior to another faction. They need to all be equal or its unbalanced and what's the point of even having inferior factions then?

>>49858847
You know FSM is dead, right? I mean, anyone can use whatever rule they want, but FSM is no longer an official rule. I keep running into guys who haven't heard the news.

>>49858847
Force size multiplier no longer exists.

Sweet: we're bringing back Nemesis pods being able to sucker in Arrow IV homing missiles.

How do people feel about custom mechs using megamek editor?

I made a Dire Wolf Variant with 2 guass rifles, 2 large pulse and an lrm20 . Its got 13 tons of armor and a 300 engine.

>>49859761

Wait...say what?!

>>49860304
In the BMR, nemesis narc pods had a 50% chance of luring friendly Arrow IV homing missiles. This was dropped from TW not because they wanted to axe it, but because there was no artillery in the book and so the ref would only have been confusing. However, they forgot to add that ability to the artillery chapter when they released TO, so it was lost. It's returning.

>>49860378
Wait, so does it effect the other guy's artillery or no?

>>49860566
Yeah, that's what nemesis pods do: lure in "friendly" attacks. So if you're firing at an enemy, and a friendly unit is in the way with an enemy nemesis pod attached, your attack risks ignoring your intended enemy target and going after your tagged buddy instead.

>>49860621

This is why I wish more nations had access to iNarc.

>>49860675
Agreed. Narc is so underused that all these advanced pods should be given to regular launchers. I'd just like to take the best of both narc launcher types and make them one launcher for all.

>>49860718

Completely agree.

>>49860718
Do you think it's reasonable to say that a small Periphery nation (on par with Marians or 60% of the Taurians, something on that scale) might find it useful to specialize in Narc Launchers? Once you build the launcher, all you need is to build the ammo, which is significantly cheaper and easier than building multiple new systems and gives lots of utility. I'm playing around with the idea of a blazer and artillery based military and narc might be a good utility addition that seems within the capabilities of a small nation to produce.

>>49861314
The devil's in the details as always, but offhand I don't see why not. All sorts of military micro-environments have taken specialist tacks, and as narc equipment is old and widely available, I could easily see a force deciding to make it a core part of their doctrine if it's late enough after 3050 (to allow plenty of time for tech diffusion to the Periphery, which is traditionally slow in getting this sort of thing). The added expense from more using more complicated ammo is about the only problem I see offhand, but that's minor.

If anyone wants them, the Robotech Tactics minis are on sale over at Miniature Market for half off.

>>49856917
>S&B

What is this S&B?

>>49862164
Shads and Bugs, the main products of the MOC industry.

>>49861314
Are you thinking that the Space Poles should be Narc-lovers? I like that idea, brb with some narc designs.

>>49861545
I was thinking they'd start off with Star League-era relic Narc stuff, lose a lot of it during the SWs, then slowly starting reproducing it during the 3030s and really have a lot by the 3050s-60s when tech was diffusing around a lot. Other than Narc, I wasn't seeing them have anything fancy (not like Large Lasers [Blazers too] and artillery cannons are complex tech).

>>49862547
No, but that's cute. I have my own ex-RWR periphery faction that I work on from time to time. I was thinking about kitting out their military, basically.

>>49856963
>>49856917

Christ I hate you so much. Can somebody please be a hero and shoot up their group already? We shouldn't have to listen to yor shit any more.

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>>49862777

>>49862928
Yeah but it always triggers me, since I know that group IRL and they're all great guys. Fuck the haters.

>>49854289
Where do I find lists of iconic mechs for each faction?

>>49862534
I thought sex and illiterate doctors were.

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Hood...

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>>49863265
...or skull?

>>49863278
Skull.

>>49863265
Hood seems more interesting. Skull's good, but feels like an "okay, another one..."

>>49863265
Hood. It gives the mech a real spooky evil sorceror look to it, almost like the horned king from the black cauldron and a ring wraith got borged

>>49863265
Skull, but the angle on the skull in the picture is bad, makes it hard to realize that it's a skull.

Skull is definitely more evil looking

>>49863265

Hood. Skull makes it look just a bit too much like a Necron.

>>49863265
Hood. Skull makes it oddly alien-like rather than BT-like, and skulls are done to death anyways.

>>49860718

That'd be nifty, especially if there was some other ammo choices.

>>49863265
Is this a WoB BA?

>>49858998

Dude, the Dracs outright gave it to the FedCom in 3058 as part of the co-operation effort along with a fucking WarShip.

You wanna know what they got in return for that? Literally nothing. Not a god damn thing.

Cap deployment of C3 makes a shit ton more sense.

>>49859855

>a Dire Wolf Variant

You made a completely custom 'Mech. Omnis can't change their engine or armour. 13 is not enough tons of armour to protect it either, it's gonna get wrecked.

I'd take that one back to the drawing board.

>>49863013

This thread.

Which faction(s) did you need details on?

>>49858233
>battle of Manila Bay (1898) with Star League era warships

Wish granted. This will be several posts, obviously.

Spanish
Alfonso XIII-class (1) - SovSoy. Roughly equivalent rate to the Aragon class, the Alfonso XIII were built completely without armor. For all practical purposes, so was the SovSoy. Likewise, the SovSoy's 2/3 speed adequately represents the mere 10kts speed exhibited by the Reina Cristina due to that ships persistent boiler issues. The 6-IN guns were modern with excellent range (IIRC the first ship to open fire on Dewey's squadron), so the NL battery is a reasonable substitute.

Aragon-class (1) - Aegis (2372). The near-immobilization of the Castilla at the Battle of Manilla Bay is represented by the Aegis's slow speed. Both ships are extremely old (Castilla was an 1869 craft) and mount a surprisingly mean short-ranged battery of guns; I've seen references to the Casilla mounting between 4 and 6 5.9-IN guns and between 2 and 8 4.7-IN guns.

Velasco-class (2) - Carson. The 13kts speed of the Velasco was really slow for an unprotected cruiser of that rate; one would have expected an essentially unarmored barque-rigged steamship to be pushing 15kts, so the 2/3 profile works. The Velascos had a nasty enough battery that the Spanish deemed it worthwhile to pull it off of one of the ships to reinforce the shore, and the Carson has an especially mean NAC array.

>cont

>>49864140

>cont

Isla de Luzon-class (2) - Lola I. The IdZ's pushed 16kts of speed, represented by the Lola's 4/6 movement profile. These ships were old, and by the time of the engagement they were often called gunboats instead of cruisers, partially as a function of the surprisingly long range of their 4.7-IN guns. They were also considered fairly tough ships, even though they had bad seakeeping properties. The Lola I is fast, tough, long-ranged, and is outdated by newer ships of its rate.

Fernando el Catolico-class (1) - Vigilant. Surprisingly well-armed for something of its mass (FeC's had a 6.4-IN gun), but without any meaningful ability to take a hit. I'd prefer something with 2/3 speed instead of 3/5 to represent FeC's 10kts speed, but I'll content myself by saying the speed is represented by the low fuel load of 1,000 tons, so the Vigilant can't burn much fuel for acceleration. Also, the Vigilant kinda has a ram bow, just with a gun inside it.

>>49864140
>>49864160


Americans

…are annoying because a ton of their ships are 1-offs instead of classes.

USS Olympia – Black Lion I. High speed of 20kts is unmatchable in extant WarShips, so I fake it using fuel load. Absolutely vicious medium-range broadside armament. The Olympia mounted 2, 8-IN guns, 10 5-IN guns of long caliber, and 14 6-pdr guns, which gave a throw-weight in practice a third greater than anything in the Spanish Fleet (and matched almost perfectly in a 3:2 ratio with the NAC armament of the 2372 Aegis ).

USS Baltimore - Riga Block I. Again, high speed of 19kts is unmatchable, so I fake it by leaning on the 10,000-ton fuel bunker on the Riga. Baltimore was a tough, long-lived ship that served in hard seas all the way from the 1880s through the start of WW2; the Riga’s 70 SI makes her tough as well. Finally armament on the Baltomore is heavy but spread evenly all around the ship, being mostly in sponsons. Likewise, the Riga has a lot of roughly equivalent gun bays scattered all around without a true heavy or light facing.

>cont

>>49863991
>Which faction(s) did you need details on?
Steiner
Steiner associated Mercs
Capellans to use as OPFOR

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>>49864176


USS Boston - Naramaki Block 1. The Bostons were true cruisers mounting 8-IN guns forward (HNPPCs) and a battery of 6-IN guns, and ended up much faster in practice than designed (16.8 kts; just as fast as the Yorktown class). Statting them as Naramakis allows them to keep up with the Pintos, and gives them the weight of firepower they deserve. Bostons were protected cruisers with 1-2 inches of armor everywhere but the gun sponsons (which had more); the Naramaki has ~75 points on armor per facing, making it solid but not "heavy" by the standards we're working with here.

Cincinnati-class (1) – Essex. I can’t reasonably match the 20-kt speed Cincy’s could pull with the WarShips available. It should be 6/9 in comparison to the 5/8s of the Yorktown and Boston-class equivalents. The Cincys were just all-around solid warships for their rate, with a very heavy medium-range armament of 1, 6-IN gun, 10, 5-IN guns, and 8 6-pdr guns. Essex does everything right but the speed, and they’ve got an OK enough fuel load to allow for long burns it’s close enough. Oh, and it's obviously the worst thing in the fleet because it's from Cincy, and everything from Cincy is bad, amirite?

Yorktown-class (1) - Pinto. Yorktowns were more or less gunboats, heaver than the FeCs, and much swifter and with very solid armament of 6, 6-IN guns and a mix of 6-pdr and 3-pdr guns. If the FeC's are Vigilants, then Pintos fit all those comparatives.

USS Petrel - Vincent Mk39. Basically, an average gunboat. Petrel should have better guns and less speed


That work for you?

>BRB, considering painting WarShips in American White Fleet Colors.


(Oops, fucked up formatting. Had to delete/reupload.)

>>49864140
>Spain wtf r u doin

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>>49864140
>>49864160
>>49864176
>>49864206
>>49864235

>>49863991
True true its not a real Dire Wolf. I think it has the same XL-300 though. Yeah I'm going to have to redo parts of it.

I have another question the rules regarding ammo are kind of strange.
One ton of Gauss Ammo is (8) per ton.
Is one turn of shooting for 1 Gauss Rifle= 1. So you'd only have 8 turns of shooting?
What about for AC-5? One ton is (45) per ton.
So one ton of ammo would equal 45 turns of shooting?
What about LRMs that are 5,10,15,20 shot weapons?

>>49864257

Mostly losing.

>>49864222

>Steiner

Light: Commando, Firestarter, Wolverine, Valkyrie*
Medium: Hatchetman, Blizkreig, Enfield, Enforcer*, Centurion*, Nightsky, Griffin
Heavy: Crusader, Thunderbolt, Caesar, Warhammer
Assault: Salamander, Zeus, Highlander, Banshee, Nightstar, Atlas, Devastator*, Thunder Hawk

Not all of those are available all the time but they are what come to mind when thinking about the "iconic" ones. The 'Mechs marked with the asterisk are more associated with the FedSuns but were available to the Lyrans in considerable numbers during the FedCom era when they tried to standardise the more common machines across both.

Mercs: Wolfhound, Verfolger.

Capellans

Light: UrbanMech
Medium: Vindicator
Heavy: Ti T'sang, Jinggau, Cataphract, Thunderbolt
Assault: Striker, Emperor, Yu Huang, Pillager.

I'm not really up on the Dark Age trends but those should help a bit.

>>49864326

>True true its not a real Dire Wolf. I think it has the same XL-300 though. Yeah I'm going to have to redo parts of it.

Well with an extra 9.5 tons you can max the armour out or return it to proper Dire Wolf armour then have a few tons left over for short-range weapons.

The GR and A/C-2 examples you gave are correct.

LRM ammo is given in volleys, an LRM-15 gets 8 shots per ton, an LRM-5 gets 24, etc.

>>49864326
When it says x per ton that is x shots. and LRM-15 takes 1 shot worth of ammo to fire not 15.

>>49864326
>I have another question the rules regarding ammo are kind of strange.
>One ton of Gauss Ammo is (8) per ton.
>Is one turn of shooting for 1 Gauss Rifle= 1. So you'd only have 8 turns of shooting?
>What about for AC-5? One ton is (45) per ton.
>So one ton of ammo would equal 45 turns of shooting?
>What about LRMs that are 5,10,15,20 shot weapons?
It's very simple, the number of shots listed is how many attacks with that weapon can be made with that weapon per ton of ammo carried.
And the AC-5 has 20 shots per ton. It's the AC-2 that gets 45

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>>49863991
>literally nothing

Except Victor saving them from the Clans

>>49864409
>no Raven for caps
Come on, man.

>>49864660

Like that means anything. The Davions saving them from a threat that's the Davions fault in the first place doesn't merit gratitude, much less a fucking Warship.

>>49864660

No, this was a gift given to the FedCom. Not a deal or repayment.

Literally just "OMG you guys are so awesome, the only way you could be more awesome is if we gave you the few advantages we have and what's currently the biggest, best WarShip in existence."

>>49864698

I knew I was forgetting something.

>>49864705

How were the Clans the Suns' fault?

This being said they saved the Dracs for strictly utilitarian purposes any way, Hanse wanted them to keep it together so they'd deflect attention from the Lyran front. They already got their money's worth from it.

>>49864409
I don't understand. How is a Wolverine a light?

>>49864769
>How were the Clans the Suns' fault?

Davions stopped accepting Comstar as the arbiters of technology and started doing things that Comstar did not approve of. This cause Comstar to react by trying to attack the Suns (such as at the end of Sword and Dagger), but because the Davions did not roll over, Comstar started a variety of programs designed to find new sources of technology and power they could use to combat the Davion threat. One of those programs was the Outbound Light project, which is ultimately what kicked off the Clan Invasion.

Had the Davions not been mary sues and hadn't tried to wiggle out of Comstar's technological domination of the Inner Sphere, Outbound Light would not have happened and the Clans would never have invaded and the Combine would have never required saving.

So yes, the Clans even being in the Inner Sphere are ultimately the fault of House Davion.

>>49864795

Because I derped on typing Wolfhound.

>>49864257
Spain lost that war really, really hard. By that point their navy was horribly outdated and underfunded, a far cry from their hey day.

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>>49864839

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>>49864864

>>49864409
>>49864222
Gonna supplement that cap list (post-jihad) mechs have an asterisk) with a number he forgot:

Light: Raven, Anubis, Flea
Medium: Blackjack, Huron Warrior, Men Shen
Heavy: Catapult, Thunder, Lao Hu, Tian-Zong*, Shen Yi* (LRM model for something good, MRM model for waste of mech)
Assault: Lu Wei Bing*

>>49864864
>>49864887

Er, the growing power of House Davion (allying with the steiners) actually WAS specifically cited by Leo Showers as the primary reason for the Clans to invade. They were concerned that Davion would conquer/unite the IS and that if the Clans didn't invade then, the IS would be united against them when they DID invade.

So Hanse Davion causing the Clan invasion is actually kinda true. If the Davions weren't so powerful (and growing), then Showers wouldn't have had his primary point of leverage to convince the other clans to invade.

>sarna article for Outbound Light has the citations

>>49864861
Yes, I know. It was a joke.

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>>49864839
I've never accepted that, mainly because I don 't trust the Commies and their toaster-hugging ilk.
You mean to tell me that ComStar - the holders of Earth's secrets didn't know where the clans were all along? Nope, they either knew already or found out about the clanners from the Minnesota Tribe and sat on the information until they needed it.

The formation of the Federated Commonwealth meant the eventual end of ComStars plans to rule humanity, so they deliberately provoked the Clan Invasion to destroy it.

tldr; The Clan Invasion was Comstar's fault. EVERYTHING is always Comstar's fault.

>>49865016
>The Clan Invasion was Comstar's fault. EVERYTHING is always Comstar's fault.

If Hanse Davion hadn't formed the Federated Commonwealth, Comstar wouldn't have felt their plans to rule humanity were in danger. So yes, the Clan Invasion ultimately leads back to the choices of Hanse Davion, and thus, the Clans being in the Inner Sphere at all is the fault of the Davions.

So no, they don't deserve a Warship for something that's their fault.

>>49864981
>>49865016

It's possible (maybe even probable) that the Outbound Light was deliberately sent on that route to see what the former SLDF was up to, plus or minus info from the Wolverines.

But at the time the Crusaders had an overwhelming majority in the Grand Council. Even Clans that were in the Warden FM were in lockstep with the Crusader agenda at that stage.

The Invasion was coming sooner or later no matter what.

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>>49865063
One of the things I've always loved about Bt is the rich setting full of mysteries. It's the only game I know of where the Illuminati are just one of a hundred possible conspiracies.

>>49865088
My theory? ComStar had agents in Clanspace for centuries, and subtly manipulated them just as they did the IS.

Battletech: Not Only The Mechwarriors Wear Tin Foil Hats

>>49865088
>The Invasion was coming sooner or later no matter what.

Speculation.

We know what actually happened, and there's a clear line of action starting with the Davions and ending with the Clan Invasion. Whatever else may actually have happened, the Davions ARE at fault.

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>Trying to make sense out of the nonsense that is Battletech plot

Btg, please. It is just fluff for a game, not even good fluff. Just enjoy your robots and accept the stories where written to attract teenager nerds

>>49864176
>…are annoying because a ton of their ships are 1-offs instead of classes.
Yeah what was the deal with that?

I'm going to apologize in advance in the case of drunk-posting. I've tried really hard not to do that for the last 6 months (since hockey playoffs)...but my wife and I are watching the debate tonight.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled BattleAutism thread.

>>49865373

Historically, it's because they kept advancing tech and didn't want to get stuck with a bunch of ships - all the same class - that were as a group behind the tech curve.

Which totally makes sense. It's just goddamn annoying from the historical gamer's perspective.

>>49865418
>watching the debate tonight
Gods why, NEA? Save yourself, go do literally anything else. Fuck, drunk post all you want if it means you don't kill precious braincells watching the debate.

>>49865418
Wow, I'm not the only person watching the debates drunk. It all makes sense now.

Kinda makes you long for the stable sanity that is the Inner Sphere.

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>>49865501

...but...I haz bingo...and watching trains crash is fun-ish. Honestly, I'll probably laugh more at the debate than I laughed at the last thread's MoC shitflinging, so why not watch the debate instead of 4chan?

>>49865418
>>49865536

>timeforMOCbait.png

>>49864981
Yet again the Fedsuns ruin everything.

>>49865577
Make Andurien Great Again

>>49865536

Pretty fuckin' close to Bingo on those already and there's like an hour to go.

I just watch it with the Chuck Tingle twitter feed up.

TFW not even American and just in it to watch the slow-motion train wreck.

>>49865594

Purple Burd was never great.

>>49865536

BINGO

Right-hand chart. >>49865536

Scalia - very, very - Free Space - Hackers - Massive

Well, goddammit, now all I have to do is drink every time Trump says something inane, the moderator is ineffective, or Hillary smiles in a creepy-clown fashion.

>>49865717

Better just drink water then because anything with alcohol will kill you.

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>>49865601
>TFW not even American and just in it to watch the slow-motion train wreck.

Enjoy your show.

>Oh, goody, ObamaCare. I didn't have health insurance for 8 years due to my *employment* counting as a disqualifying pre-existing condition. No, I'm not all at biased on this topic.

>>49865128
>One of the things I've always loved about Bt is the rich setting full of mysteries. It's the only game I know of where the Illuminati are just one of a hundred possible conspiracies

I honestly can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

>>49865754
I think that's still going to kill him with water poisoning.

>>49865717
Btw NEA, wanna write some fluff for the TRO? We have a tyranny mechanism that needs your love

>tfw your new phone corrects "tranny mech" to tyranny mechanism

Sounds about right

>>49865798

>Enjoy your show.

I mean it's entertaining now but in two years time I might be running around screaming "WHY IS EVERYTHING BOTH COVERED IN SHIT AND ON FIRE ARRRRG?!"

>>49865798
>Oh, goody, ObamaCare. I didn't have health insurance for 8 years due to my *employment* counting as a disqualifying pre-existing condition. No, I'm not all at biased on this topic.
Say that to my mech and not online faggot. Having worked for an exchange, I'm infinitely more biased.

>>49865869
Because communism has been infiltrating America for decades

>>49865869

Well, you lived through the Jihad plotline, so you should be used to that.

>>49865862

Yeah, I can do that. I promise I'll at least give a once-over once the hangover clears...so roughly Saturday. You guys have my email, right?

>tranny mechanism
>THEY KNOW

>>49865887
Note: I hated that job with the kind of passion that involves becoming so bitter that I prefer unemployment over working. Also, in the year I worked there, there were 15 heart attacks, 7 of which were fatal, all from stress.

Gas the everyone, omnicidal war now

>>49865920

I like the way you think, son.

>>49865920
Welcome aboard, son. Get your NBCs at the table on the left.

>>49865908
Yeah, will send you stats and art this afternoon.

>>49865972

Copy that. Thank you. Is it just a statblock in isolation or is there *any* accompanying fluff?

>>49866141
There's a little, but it's largely a blank slate.

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So, if the current candidates existed in the BT universe which faction would they lead?

Hillary has a serious Katrina vibe to her, so Archon Princess faction?
Trump is harder to place. Maybe that businessman who started up crap pre-blackout, what was his name? Bannock?

The only one I'm sure of is Gary Johnson. He's every leader the Outworlds Alliance ever had.

>>49866229

Plz no do this. You're playing with forces behind the ken of mortal minds. Delete this and save ALL our souls.

>its too late for me save yourself

>>49866229
Stop it

>>49866258
Oh come on it's fun.

Jill Stein running MoC?

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>>49866229
>>49866258

>>49866281
Nah. The only possible leader for the MoC is rule63!Berlusconi.
Search your feelings, you know it to be true

Is there a /btg/ discord?

Would /btg/ care if I made one?

>>49866561

These threads seem pretty discordant already. What are you referrring to?

>>49866590
https://discordapp.com/

It's a chat app. Allows for text and also voice. Essentially the same purpose as irc, but with more functions.

>>49866615
Why the duck would I want to talk to any of you flickers?

>>49866627
I dunno, I thought it might be neat for organizing games. The voice channels are optional.

>>49866697
>organizing games
No one on /btg/ PLAYS battletech, go home anon, you got a contact drunk from NEA.

>>49865418
But, and pardon my lack of American history knowledge as I am not one, why did the USA have such a small and weird navy? I always imagined them as particularly rich and it seems funny to look it up and see they have such a small navy with a bunch of one off ships.

>>49866787
Pre-WWI US wasn't the industrial powerhouse that it is today. We mostly just used our military at the time to fuck with any neighbors south of us.

>>49866779

You're thinking of the OF where a majority of respondants to one poll said they hadn't played in 5+ years.

/btg/ is pretty active.

>>49866967
your shitpost detector needs some more fine tuning

>>49866787

VERY short version because typing is hard right now.

Up until post-WW2, the US was isolationistic as fuck. Mostly, that was because we had so much land area that conquering that was more important than conquering stuff overseas. Additonally, a big part of American culture through the 1800s and early 1900s hjas been summed up by "Euro powers fucked everything up...let them fight it out."

American naval power started with Alfred Mahan (very late 1800s) who pointed out that no country who actually matters has failed to project naval power, and since the US had that whole "Manifest Destiny" thing going on then AND was seeing that they were going to run out of room on the continent, they started fucking around with naval power projection. This co-incided with some major technological booms (steam power, turbine engines, modern guns, etc) that meant that naval tech made huge advances every 3-5 years...given a 3-year build time for ships, that meant that often ships were obsolete before they left the slip. That got even worse when Dreadnought came into play, obviously, and actually validated the US position of building 1-ship classes since the US hadn't sunk of ton of national infrastructure into building the ships that became instantly obsolete.

Naval power projection waxed and waned with politics until after WW1, when we realized that wars in Europe affected us whether we wanted to or not. We could still fool ourselves into thinking that the UK would police the sea lanes until WW2 when it became clear that if we didn't do it, nobody would (well, maybe the Russians). Since NOBODY wanted the Russians in charge of sea trade, the US kept their WW2 "fuck Japan" navy around instead of scrapping it all, and that's how we get the US as the major naval power from 1945-present.

>this was hard to type.
>this knowledge base is why I did a lot of Leviathans work...

>>49867026

NEA I am consistently amazed at your ability to both speak at length AND at great speed about all things naval history.

It is one of the things I love about this threads.

>>49867116
Get Muninn in here and it's a party. I swear there was a 3rd guy but I don't know if he was a namefag

>>49867116
> speak at length

The funny part is that the answer I gave isn't at all "at length". The answer to the question of, "why did the USA have such a small and weird navy" is a feature book-length question. To answer *fully* the political, economic, technical and military reasons why that's true would require EASILY 600 pages of hardback-book-sized text. I just gave the dust-jacket summation.

but yeah, for 4chan, I can see where you're going. Thank you for that, at least.

>>49866787
NEA covers it well, but what the hell: let's have a mil-hist party, from a more social/policy angle.

The Americans, despite breaking from Britain, were a British people who built their government around British ideals. One of these was a fundamental view of standing armies as instruments of tyranny (a view shared by Britain, which is why there's a Royal Navy but no Royal Army; see English Civil War for tons of fun surrounding the ideas of the people vs. the ruler and essential background to the American Revolution in general). Believing standing armies = bad led to an over-reliance on militias (and hilarities in the War of 1812), the 3rd Amendment, etc.

It also led to America having to build a military from scratch every time it needed one. As soon as the need had passed (which always coincided with the threat having been utterly crushed), the military would be mass demobilized (this included the navy, and the air force when that became relevant). This happened post-US Civil War, post-WWI, and post-WW II. It wasn't until NSC 68 and the Korean War/almost getting their again-demobilized, crap-condition post-WWII army thrown off the Korean peninsula that American policy makers realized that the world had changed and you couldn't just improv an army when needed in a world with the USSR and newly-Red China as going concerns.

So the standing American mega-military is a post-1950 phenomenon, and still an oddity compared to most of American history.

>>49867669
>NSC 68 and the Korean War/almost getting their again-demobilized, crap-condition post-WWII army thrown off the Korean peninsula

Nice reference.

For anyone interested in more of this specific topic, I'm currently in the middle of The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam, and I cannot recommend it enough.

The description of what happened between the end of WW2 and the Korean war is mind-opening.

>>49867829
>The Coldest Winter: America and the Korean War by David Halberstam, and I cannot recommend it enough.

Agreed: great overview of the whole deal, and very well written.

>>49867026
I wish Leviathans would come back... Tell me it's gonna come back, NEA. Tell me everything is going to be okay.

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>>49868116

I...I wish I could, anon. But CGL has made the decision that VikingsBux and ValiantBux matters far more than assuaging the people who faithfully and loyally supported Levs through 4 years of toil, trouble, and Chinese Interference.

>Maybe if we'd let MacArthur nuke China we'd have Leviathans product.

OK, I probably need to stop posting for the evening.

>>49868156
I... I understand, NEA. Our childhood is over, and I guess I need to accept that. Leviathans... Leviathans is never coming back.

Just like mom.

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>>49868196
Leviathans is never coming back.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Pontbriands on fire off the coast of Dover. I watched torpedo volleys glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die.

>>49868253
That looks like a cake

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Not meant to be a troll post...but this is gunna sound like one.
To what extent were the design of the clans influenced by the zentradi?

>zentradi
>genetically engineered
>literally all war

>>49868269

Probably about as much as they were by the (popular myth, any way) of the Mongols.

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>>49868258

It was actually pretty cool in person. From what I remember from the original discussion, it was done in under a week for Origins 2010 or 2011, and it stayed as the flagship dirorama for Leviathans through 2-3 years of conventions. CGL's probably scrapped it by now, but at the time it looked amazing and pulled people into the CGL booth to talk about Levs by the dozen.

>unsure if this is NEA working on it or not. This was an update post from the old CGL site.

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>>49868156

>No more Levs

>>49868269
None probably? The clans don't practice actual genetic engineering, just eugenics. They don't actually go in and program stuff. And "warrior culture" is hardly a unique thing in sci-fi or fantasy.

>>49868491
There there, anon. We can... we can still play Levs. Together. Like we used to. We don't have to let the dream die!

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>>49868519

Oh anon...*sniff*...you're a good guy. Sure. Sure...lets play.

>>49868258
Winner gets to eat the scenery.

>>49865869
>WHY IS EVERYTHING BOTH COVERED IN SHIT AND ON FIRE ARRRRG?!"
>>49865908
>Well, you lived through the Jihad plotline, so you should be used to that.

Underrated post/10

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>>49868867

I don't think most people here would enjoy that.

I didn't make it out of paste, after all.

>gonna go collapse in the middle bed, now

Can SSW create and modify tripods and superheavies yet? Can't check atm and trying to plan.

>>49868999
No, and it never will...

>>49869078

...god is dead.

>>49859622
Wait, seriously? Were there any other changes? And since when?

>>49869279

Davions get an inherent +15% bonus to their BV allotment in any scenario in which they are the attacker, as do Ghost Bears. This represents their factional tactical superiority and their superior ability to bring force to bear when they choose.

Aside from that, about the only other major BV chance I can think of is the change to RE-lasers when the weapons got re-statted to give a to-hit bonus.

>>49869078
Ouch. Alright, guess I better figure out how to calculate their BV by hand.

>>49869279
Since early 2013, when the new PDF "printing" of TechManual came out (there was no physical print to go with it). Welshman and I rewrote the whole BV chapter, mostly for clarity (way better examples) and errata incorporation, but we did manage to get FSM fixed (axed) and also made stealth armor heat be included for heat efficiency calculations.

The errata is available for free in the errata section on the main website. Alternatively, buy the TM PDF and you'll have it (and another 35 or so pages of errata corrections).

>>49869358
Guess that's what I get for buying the books - well, at least my suspicions of brokenness have been confirmed. I'll check out the errata, thank you.

>>49869337
>Davions get an inherent +15% bonus to their BV allotment

Wait, shit. Really? Source?

>>49869358

Thank you for the reference. I'll look into that PDF. What's the page number of the Davion BV thing?

>>49869454
:|

>>49868506
Dont they? Could have sworn elemental, aerospace and protomech pilots were genetically engineered

>>49864409
If I wanted to build a Steiner mixed lance from the intro box, I'd pick a Commando, a Zeus and what else?
The other mechs you listed are not in the box sadly.

>>49869337
>>49869454
Where do I find faction rules?

File: BT Introbox Force Lists by Year and Faction v3.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>49869675

Try this.

Is there anywhere I can find how the interior of a Leopard dropship is setup?

>>49869728
AWS-8Q, thanks!

>>49869739
Dropship and Jumpships has a description of where the various compartments on the ship are, but I don't remember ever seeing a blueprint or deck plans of the Leopard.

>>49869338
Megamek Lab finally seems to do superheavies right, after some time of mucked up weight regarding gyros and structure. Not sure if tripods are working right as I haven't checked.
>>49869549
Traditionally, what they do is basically selective breeding accelerated, with the main application of real genetic engineering being to fix any flaws and ensure only the traits they want pop up in the next generation. However, Elstars are a result of a new trend where they are doing some larger modifications, but we still haven't been given much info on that yet.

If I wanted to run a campaign where 2 or 3 players runs a merc outfit, what would be nice starting mechs for them?

>>49869821

Depends on where the characters are from. If they're Davions, Rifleman, Centurons, Marauder-Ds, or Valkyries are good. If they're Steiners, Commandos, Wolfhounds, Marauders, Zeuses. If FWL, Grasshoppers, Awesomes, and Hermes IIs. If Drac, Jenners, Panthers, Dragons. If Liao, Ravens, Whitworths, Cataphracts, Catapults. If MOC, Shadow Hawks. If Taurian, Thunderbolts, Griffins, Hatchetmen, or Devastators.

Those are all easily available and fairly common in each of those factions, so nobody should question a starting PC having them.

>>49869821
Depends. What era does the campaign take place, what sort of unit and/or lance they are, etc. The ones I used most recently were:

>a 3039 era short lance, where my players had a Griffin-1N, a Griffin-1S and a Wolverine-6R.
>a 3059 Chaos March lance (played, not GM'd) where we were the command/'Mech lance of a combined arms company: Marauder-5M (mine), custom Battlemaster-1G, Warhammer-6R, plus an NPC Archer-2R.

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>>49869739
Closest I know of is this one of a Broadsword.
It's practically a Leopard IIC, so it should make a decent approximation, just swap that front mech bay out for an ASF bay.

>>49869821
Don't make the same mistake I did and assign them Light 'Mechs; apparently players don't like working for their Heavies. Or maybe my players were just shit (they were shit).

>>49869906

>no bulkheads
>no heads, for that matter
>paper-thin walls and no structural members
>no secondary systems
>no galley
>no fuel storage
>no cargo storage
>no furry-incest-bordello
>no weapons bays, turret mechanisms, or ammo storage

-82.2/10, would not invade surats with. Please tell me this is shit fanart and not something CLG actually commissioned.

>>49869881
3025, they're newly founded, so they do not have an existing lance beforehand.

>>49869851
I kinde want them to be house-agnostic.

>>49869912
I actually would like to have them in lights or mediums at the start. I'm massively inspired by (= ripping of) mechwarrior 2 mercs.

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>>49869921
FASA actually.
Take discrepancies in the form of that layout and the actual art of the ship as you will.
And obviously the whole ship is the furry incest bordello.

>>49869954
>I kinde want them to be house-agnostic.
>I actually would like to have them in lights or mediums at the start.

Then use bugmechs or Shads, Griffins, and Wolverines.

>>49869954
Well, I wish you luck then. I'm sure your players are much better than mine were.

If you're looking at "house agnostic" forces, look at what's most commonly available on the open market:

Wasp
Stinger
Locust
Phoenix Hawk
Wolverine
Shadow Hawk
Griffin
Rifleman
Archer
Thunderbolt
Marauder

You can also probably easily get:

Whitworth
Blackjack
Trebuchet
Cicada
Crusader
Grasshopper

That should be a good start.

>>49869851
>If Taurian, Thunderbolts, Griffins, Hatchetmen, or Devastators.

fucking wat

>>49869454

>Wait, shit. Really? Source?

He's shitposting.

>>49869725

Field Manuals and sometimes Historicals. Whilst the Suns and Bears don't actually get the shit he's saying, they *do* get some really broken crap in their special units. One of the GB Keshiks has elite Clan pilots in what's virtually guaranteed to be Assault 'Mechs who get free C3 that can't be blocked and the Suns have a few units who get all the basic special abilities. Elite commands from other states get hit like "may torso twist after firing their weapons instead of before."

There's some *serious* codex creep going on for the usual suspects.

>>49869549

Speaking as someone who actually has a background in genetics, the notion that the Clans were able to get the phenotypes strictly through eugenics in 200-ish years was always ludicrous.

>>49869921

It's from one of the pregen MechWarrior scenarios, Bloodright.

>>49869954
If you want to use the Recce Lance, GS Mk I, give them a Phoenix Hawk-1 (lance command unit), two Wasp-1As and a Locust-1V. This has the added benefit of being cohesive on the ammo (all you need are SRM2 and MG reloads) if you're playing AccountantTech.

If you want to go heavier, give them a Wolverine-6R (lance command unit), a Griffin-1S, a Shadow Hawk-2H, and Phoenix Hawk-1. Less ammo commonality here, but all are common 'Mechs and appropriate for the era.

>>49870005
Thanks.

Finally: Is there something like a random force generator for the facions?
Like:
>Steiner Light Mech: 1d%
>01 - 20 : Commando
>21 - 30 Wasp
etc

>>49869954
Bugger, meant to say Griffin-1N.

>>49870080

Yes but the official ones are shit.

Xotl has some more fluff-accurate ones that he posts on the official forum. However "fluff accurate" will still mean "massively butt-fucks several factions because the fluff said they get fuck all worth having and anything decent goes to someone else instead."

File: 3028-3050 Random Assignment & Rarity Tables 9.1.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

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>>49870080
There certainly is.

>>49870092
>>49870093
As they are going to be OPFORS for my Mercenary players, imbalance really is not a problem.
Thanks.
This is probably the most helpful thread I've been in the last few years.

>>49870080
You'll want Xotl's MUL. Which... I don't have? What the fuck? Sorry man, I can't find my copy, but some other anon will have it that's less derp than I.

>>49870092
>However "fluff accurate" will still mean "massively butt-fucks several factions because the fluff said they get fuck all worth having and anything decent goes to someone else instead."

Why doesn't anybody fix the fluff, then? How is it promoting an even balance of factions in a wargame when one or two of them get clearly superior equipment? Isn't that terrible game design?

Seriously, why would anyone set up a game with lots of factions, and then most of them completely shit equipment, and why would anybody accept fluff that promotes that?

>>49870125
>and then most of them completely shit equipment


and then
>give
most of them completely shit equipment

Sorry, it's been a long day.

>>49870125
There is no easy answer to that besides "meh". Personally, I think what they should have done was to apply some kind of metric to each faction, by "type", that dictates what they can ultimately have. Almost like a kind of point system or something that determines production and troop quality, that kind of thing. Periphery obviously has less than the Successor States, and size can play into it, but what you end up with is something like the TC being as strong as the CC, so the strongest Periphery state is as strong as the weakest Successor State. Which makes some kind of sense. As it is, everything is made of asspull and "whatever is necessary to tell the story" which leaves people who want some structure that makes sense out in the cold. I don't care if the system is purely internal or not, but it needs to exist to some degree or another.

>>49870125

>Why doesn't anybody fix the fluff, then?

Because if you suggest BT factions should be balanced like that the fans of the factions that got all the good stuff come out with torches and pitchforks and whine that you're ruining the game and disrespecting the fluff about their faction being the super best at everything.

Or they argue it's fine because you're only meant to play Team Good Guy (Federated Suns, maybe FS+Lyrans depending on era) and everyone else is just there to be the Orcs to the intended Good Guy PCs. They're meant to look threatening and be fun to overcome, they're never actually meant to have a chance of winning and you're wrong to have ever expected otherwise.

>>49870170

>but what you end up with is something like the TC being as strong as the CC, so the strongest Periphery state is as strong as the weakest Successor State

TC is meant to be at best half as strong as the Capellans were at their absolute worst though.

>>49870063
>"may torso twist after firing their weapons instead of before."

What would even be the point of this? Torso twisting has no bearing on hit location since shooting's assumed to be simultaneous, so it's not like you could fire, then twist so your back isn't in arc to an enemy. The only thing I can think of is you could shoot an enemy in front fo you, then twist to bring a melee weapon to bear against someone who was 1 hexside out of your front arc. That's just silly.

Also they used genetics AND being written by people who don't know about the things they're writing about. Ignorance alloweth much bullshit.

>>49870188
Not even a TC fag but that makes no sense to me with the production they have. The CC, at one time, could not produce assault 'Mechs AT ALL (unless that was retconned) and nothing over 65 tons, if I recall. The TC can make a lot heavier shit than that, and it didn't have the ravages of constant war with the FS to cope with either. The only way I can see the CC being better in military strength would be troop quality; the TC's troops would be shit compared to the battle-forged vets of the CC military.

>>49870189

>What would even be the point of this?

So when you give it to the Dracs' most elite unit that's famous for their skill and hard-core morale, fighting to death against overwhelming odds in several dozen battles over the course of the Succession Wars it really hammers home how much better the Red heart Guard are because they literally did nothing for over a century bust still get initiative bonuses and everyone is shit-scared of them and has to immediately flee melee range because they're so AWESOME you guys.

The Field Manuals for the factions the authors really like (Wardens, CapCom, AFFS) were written last and benefitted from codex creep. The first few like the Drac and FWL ones got some interesting abilities that are completely outmatched by the later books and which have never been bought up to par since.

>>49870220

Because the TC does not have the industrial depth or output of the Capellans. Also being able to build something a whole 10 tons heavier does not mean they're building said unit in large numbers.

Great Houses are called Great Houses in part because even the shittiest of them have a massive power gap between them and the Periphery.

Part of the dissonance here may be because the writers have retconned in a number of factory lines for the Houses. The Periphery didn't benefit from that.

>>49870125
Because factions aren't strictly part of the game. There options supporting them, but playing super fluff accurate forces is entirely a choice on the player's part.

>>49870282

Yeah, but it's a choice CGL (and FASA before them) have *heavily* encouraged. To the point of not just having Starter Book/Starter Pack stuff for factions and the MUL project on top of the Field Manuals and Tech Readouts.

From everything I've see on-line and IRL, faction-based play (to varying degrees of fluff accuracy) has always been in the majority. I've never seen or heard of a fluff-agnostic group.

>>49870266
Point taken. Though, that doesn't change the fact that if they balanced around some kind of metric, the gap could be regulated better and make fluff and crunch feel more in-line with each other. As it is, you have to bullshit the crunch because the fluff makes so little sense, or is so inconsistent.

Mostly, it's suffering being a Peripheryfag. I just don't care for most of the Successor States, but the options are mostly "well now you have to suck at everything, deal with it". The Periphery doesn't have to be so shit to be insignificant. I think they could do a better job, but I don't think the game ever was about not playing as a big Merc group or one of the "main" factions, so liking anything B-list is a self-condemnation, unless you love being a Cappie buttboi.

>>49870329

Hey, at least they got a power-up eventually.

The Dracs and FWL are still waiting on that one. What few advances they've made have been because the enemy decides to act literally retarded for decades on end, not because they actually got better on their own.

>>49870315
There's a difference between being fluff agnostic and being a stickler for it though.
And then it seems there are some people who try to differentiate factions to a degree that the fluff itself doesn't follow, like treating what a faction can produce as the be all end all of what it can field, or treating a mech stated to be mostly found in one faction as if it can only be found there.

>>49870393
We were discussing the "mostly forgotten" status of the FWL a few threads back and I mentioned that I thought the FWL was specifically written to be a "playground" for campaigns and RP and whatnot, because it's so otherwise devoid of dev attention. It just seems like the official unofficial spot to do whatever you want, because nothing ever happens.

The Dracs had to deal with being black hats for too long. They really do deserve to be better treated. So does the FWL, but like I said, I have my theory about that.

>>49870235
I know, I'm just still trying to wrap my head around what the point of that one special ability is. Like, help me out here, what's its utility?

>>49870753
If your smart about positioning you can fire your weapons using the forward facing and then twist away so that you take return fire on your side hit tables, potentially protecting damaged/vulnerable sections of a given mech.

Where could I find material focusing on the Nova Cats from their perspective? From what I do know about them it sounds like there would be some interesting stuff but I never cared about clans until now so I'm not sure where to start.

>>49870797

It does not work that way. Torso twisting has no impact on hit locations and never has.

>>49870753

You said the only point of it in your post here >>49870189. You could fire into one arc then twist to make a melee attack you otherwise couldn't.

>>49870829

Their Field Manual entry and maybe Path of Glory. Also Invading Clans.

>>49870170
>so the strongest Periphery state is as strong as the weakest Successor State

Yeah nah. The weakest successor state, at it's worst, should be at least three times as strong as the strongest periphery state

>>49870862
Wow. That was really the only use for it? Goddamn. I was hoping I'd just missed something.

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>>49870080
Yo, I forgot this also exists. Dated for the 4th Succession War, no less, so your mercenaries can have Dr Banzai Approved enemies.

>>49871032

EREETO
SAMURAI
SKIRRS

>>49869851
>no mention of FWL

It's ok, we're used to it.

>>49870220
Of course at their weakest the Cappies were crippled by Hopeless Battle Syndrome and the fact most of their battle-forged troops were dead, defected or POWs.

Speaking of the Capellans, if I were to be building a timeless CCAF company what are 12 mechs that could be found in a Capellan force in pretty much any era (Mad Max era on)?
Aside from the classic three bugs.

Also, does anyone here like using bugs?

Hey guys, any word on a new Introductory Box set or does Catalyst just want to let Battletech die?

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>>49872882
Die :)

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>>49872971
Feels bad

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>>49872971
Forgot the rest.

Why does BattleTech not have any transsexual or genderfluid characters?

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>>49873141
This country is headed to shit. First no Battletech, next autism is being paraded.

>>49864530
>>49864451
>>49864451
Okay thanks!
Just wanted to make sure my group was using the ammo rules right. the 200 rounds of ammo for the MG is a little silly.

>>49873141

Who the hell needs those when you can have cyber cat girls?

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>>49873354
>the 200 rounds of ammo for the MG is a little silly.

Especially when it cooks off!

Remember, you can have a half-ton of MG ammo, which is only 100 rounds.

>>49870870

If that's where you're setting the bar, then we might as well not have periphery states at all. "The weakest successor state, at it's worst" would be the 3030-ish Capellans, who could make like 2 Mechs, had less combat strength than Wolf's Dragoons, and were mentally shattered by hopeless battle syndrome. That's an insane bar to set.

I get what you mean, and I understand and agree that Periphery states should be less powerful than Successor States. It's just that the bar you're setting is ludicrously low. A Periphery state in 3090 shouldn't be forced to have 3x less combat power than 3030 Capellans.

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>>49873141
>Why does BattleTech not have any transsexual or genderfluid characters?
They all live in the Magistracy of Canopis.
Be careful at Pleasure Circuses, it might be a trap!

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>>49873167
We need to make battletech more inclusive and diverse :)

Just look at the Free Worlds League: diversity is our greatest strength!

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>>49873354
You have a couple of options when using MG ammo, which is important if you want to avoid a humiliating but hilarious 398-point ammo explosion. The first is to do what anon at >>49873430 said and take only half ammo. 100 shots is plenty of bullets.

The second is to crank your machine guns into a higher gear, as described in Tactical Operations. This takes away the zero heat advantage the MGs have, but it does burn the ammo faster and also increases your damage output.

And always, if you start losing armour or internals in the parts where you're storing anything explosive, you can dump the ammo to avoid a boom due to an unlucky crit.

Were there any notable Gargoyle pilots?

>>49873978
Ol' Ulric K himself piloted one, for one.

>>49873978

Ulric Kerensky. Killed both of the Ghost Bear Khans in a fucking Gargoyle Prime.

Maybe Conal Ward? Phelan piloted one a couple of times too.

Could someone post the technical layout image for a Kingfisher prime?

I'm trying to make a modern concept of it, and I can't make out where those weapons of it's are situated.

>>49874025
>Killed both of the Ghost Bear Khans

I refuse to believe this happened. Ben wouldn't allow it.

>>49874252

Happened long before his tenure.

>>49874016
Didn't like half the invasion-era Wolf touman pilot them?

>>49874095

On it.

I'm having to scan my TRO, since all the images online are incredibly tiny.

>>49874384

No, that was the Ice Ferret.

Gargoyle wasn't too far behind though.

>>49873637
>I get what you mean, and I understand and agree that Periphery states should be less powerful than Successor States
My personal two cents as someone who likes both periphery and IS factions is that periphery militaries should be able to achieve qualitative parity or in rare cases slight superiority(like 3030 taurians VS 3030 caps) of troops, but never quantitative superiority or parity.
Or, in simple terms, it's fine for a periphery state to have troops as good or very rarely better than a given successor state ON AVERAGE, but never to have an overall military of similar size.

>>49872841
They really didn't have much at all: Vindies, Urbies, Thuds, Bugs, and maybe the odd Cataphract or Raven around the late 3020s.

>>49873354
Be glad you're playing modern BattleTech and not Battledroids, with its 1000 shots/ton of MG ammo. I'm debating houseruling that in if MG ammo is stored as cargo, or for the BFFL Drone Bomb.

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>>49874095
>>49874416

OK, here you go.

Note that the "hidden" cMPL does in fact exist on the mini, so I'm not just bullshitting you to cover up the fact it's not there.

>>49874504
Where's the ERPPC? Is in the big barrel tube next to the second large pulse laser?

>>49874516
The Prime doesn't have an ER PPC.

>>49874516

...cERPPC? What cERPPC? There isn't a cERPPC in the Kingfisher's Prime configuration.

x2 cLPL
x2 cMPL
x1 SSRM-6
x1 LRM-10
x1 cERSL

That's it.

>>49874494
I found that making MG ammo explosions 1/10th of their normal size removes the sense that they're made of pure Explodium, while not altering any of the other rules. So 200 rounds going off does 40 damage, which is still big, but not Bikini Atoll big. Our group has used it for along time with no problems.

Bearing in mind that they're clearly optional and somewhat abstract, do the Clan Honor rules as appearing in TW need any special clarification?

>>49874563
But anon, that's not hilarious. 9000 damage in the target hex means that MG ammo is the strongest explosive in the setting if there's 1000 rounds a ton.

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>>49874550
>>49874546
Oh, yes, you guys are right. My mistake. Have a bandersnatch as an apology.

>>49874642

No worries. You have a very nice `snatch.

MUNINN, if you're out there, I've received your email and need a response from you before I start writing.

>>49874684
It's early morning in Australia, NEA. He probably won't be up for another few hours.

>>49874606

Clarification as to their optional-ness would be nice. Maybe go so far as to put in a very visible break-out text box to note that BV-balanced games REALLY don't use Zell. I think there's something to that effect in Tech Manual.

With Dezgra points someone may need to take a look at taking points for not firing at least one weapon. Bad enough heat should be a mitigating factor there, as well as maybe being down to the last shot of ballistic weapons. I think it should also be possible to generate more than one Dezgra point per turn and the loss of Dezgra points could probably afford to be slowed to one reduction every other turn for good behaviour, I've run into too many players who hover at two points deliberately to exploit the system.

Honestly I would scrap the section entirely unless part of the point of the product is to do campaigns.

>>49873354
200 shots is not that much when you carry 10 machine guns...

The heat-inflicted penalty to hit applies to melee attacks, correct?

>>49875492
They do not.

>>49875310
True
But why not 10 Heavy Machine Guns?

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>>49875310
>>49876775
Why settle for ten machine guns?

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And of course, if that's not enough brrrrrt, there's this one.

>>49873354
meh, just fire them in RAPID FIRE MODE. You can chew through something like 16 shots a turn with a single MG

>piranha firing all 12 MGs at full rapid fire
just imagine

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>>49876878
>>49876940

>>49874504
God, I hate Looses old art so much. Plog was definitely a sinner too, but he's improved greatly in recent times

>>49873430
Or just start the game with 15 rounds in the bin.

>>49877108

Context does matter a little here. For example, this is during the period of FASA where there was essentially zero art direction; '57, '58' and '60 all were affected by that. It's one reason why we got the "monster"-style ProtoMechs.

FASA sent a statline to the artist and said "draw the thing, we need it back in 24 hours or less." And the work was sent back in and nary a peep was ever heard back regarding whether it was good or bad, or needed revisions, or anything. So say what we will about Catalyst, at least their art direction *exists*.

>there was a sit-down lunch between Demo Team and Doug Chaffee at a con, which is where this all came out.

This doesn't completely excuse the art, and I totally understand if you have aesthetic issues about it. But the context about how FASA art happened *is* important to the conversation.

>>49876940
And I thought my Clan Archer with 40 Streak SRM missile tubs was ridiculous. Neat.

>>49877018
That is the orkiest zoggin thing i have ever seen and it is beautiful

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>>49877316

>>49877387

...I want to field a binary of those in Alpha Strike. 12 damage at medium range per vehicle is utterly unfair.

>>49873637
Well I didn't elaborate but IMO it's a moving bar, so the weakest state might be the Davions in 3145 and the MoC is equal to a third of their strength, instead of the Cappie-Taurian setup of 3030.

>>49874465
What about having periphery states with similar sized armies but lower tech?
I kinda think that would be more fun on the table and maybe in fluff than just being the same but smaller

>>49875310
Yes it is, that's still 20 shots. Most long-range weapons like the gauss rifle and LRMs are considered to have good ammo endurance at ~16 rounds each. For machine guns, which are incredibly short ranged and thus probably won't get to fire as often (since you won't be firing in the turns you're closing with the enemy), 20 rounds per MG is honestly too much, you could get by with half a ton for 100 rounds.

>>49878242
Well you could have the MoC focus on high tech, the Marians focus on low-tech hordes, and the Taurians focus on OPERATORS in HEAVY MECHS - no need to have everyone doing the same thing.

>>49878523
With their narrow educational focus the MoC strikes me as the "tiny group of actually good soldiers with high tech supported by hordes of cannon fodder pussywhipped illiterates" faction.

>>49878628
You can do whatever you like, I just don't see that everyone in the periphery needs to or even should take the same approach.

>>49878242
I feel like it's more era-dependant, but I do think that a mix of both is good. Like, in the 3050s, all introtech periphery VS 75% introtech IS is too close, but all introtech VS 3067 is too far IMO.

My personal AU thinking, as of 3099, has the MoC using a hodgpodge of whatever high-tech they can lay hands on, but smaller and greener, a TC with a 30-regiment military consisting mostly of vets in 3025 machines updated with DHS, CASE and some other bits, and only a moderate amount of more modern gear, and marian hegemony with a rampaging hoard of retrotech mixed with a bit of higher tech gear.
But that's just me

>>49878523
>>49878760
Peripherymind

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>>49878760
TC is entirely Urbies with tactical nukes.
Entirely.

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>>49878990
Common Orion in the TC according to the OF coming through.

>>49879127
It's sad I can't tell if you are joking or not.

>>49879269
Since it's not in HMP format, it's not from medron pryde, so I'd rate the chances of it being a joke as reasonably high. If it was, I'd think authentic

>>49874482
>They really didn't have much at all: Vindies, Urbies, Thuds, Bugs, and maybe the odd Cataphract or Raven around the late 3020s.

Really?

Are there any other mechs I could build into a Capellan force? Cruds or Victors would work right?

>>49879522
Yeah, they have a decent number of victors, and they have plenty of cruds, archers and warhammers, like literally everyone else

>>49879522
>>49874482
They like Cyclopses as well.

>>49878242
>What about having periphery states with similar sized armies but lower tech?
This is literally my AU (I'm PrimitiveTech and AoW Mech anon).

The Marians use lots of retrotech and shitty tech (muh RLs and AC/2s) and flood the field. They specifically homegrow a low-tech (SHS, normal meds, stolen JJs) Brigand because fuck you someone should (also it thematically fits their history nicely, even if it's not fluff compliant). They also homegrow a single assault mech, the Primitive Emperor.

The Canopians use a number of higher-tech cast-off SLDF Shads and bugs as well as whatever they can barter from the Cappies, but have worse pilots overall than any other Periphery faction. They don't homegrow any unique mechs but have a number of Shadbug lines keeping them in stock.

The Taurians use a large military with introtech and primitive machines and some few units with higher tech (DHS, CASE, the occasional LB/X or ER laser) but generally have good pilots. Also, they homegrow the Toro and Talos still.

The Outworlders use Merlins, bugs and primitives mostly, with a number of aerospace assets available, much like canon. They aren't a big combat faction, so I've done the least work with them. They homegrow the Merlin, natch.

The Stellar Republic (my unique addition; the southern half of the old RWR, I can give the entire story if anyone cares) uses mostly Kintaros and Heliopoli, as well as a spread of bugs and primitives. They have little advanced tech beyond Narc launchers and I guess artillery? They also make use of blazer conversions of Warhammers, Archers, and Marauder, whenever they get their hands on any of those chassis, though they don't make any of them. They also strapped Narcs onto a bunch of bugs. Finally, they've got 1 line of Phoenixes running and in the 3060s get a Dragoon line going too (thanks, C*), but they're both low-tech as well until the Dark Ages.

AU's goal is to keep things fun on table and fairly balanced (all get stomped by the Houses)

>>49880146
your over-use of "homegrown" is just making me imagine rows of mechs sprouting in the fields

>>49880352
Sorry, bad habit. I dislike using the same term over and over, but it is the correct term (as far as I'm aware) and I've found that specificity is fucking required on 4chan, where spergs will call you out on literally anything even vaguely shady.

>>49880466
spergs gonna sperg even if you ain't shady

>>49880507
You're not wrong. Fuckin spergs.

>>49880466
I mean, "locally-developed" would also work, but it means basically the same thing

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So the MOC builds SHDs and Manticore tanks. I wondered if you could combine them, reinforcing the frame of the SHD by 5 tons and swapping to the tank's fusion plant. It's like a slow Griffin with a bit more short-range kick. I kinda like it.

>>49881022
That's awesome.
>introtech intensifies.

>>49881022

I'm hesitant to say anything positive about it without risking a restart of the last autism spiral about "it's a nice thing" / "MoC doesn't deserve nice things", etc.

Which is sad, because positive things deserve to be said about that Mech and the fluff concept behind it.

>>49881212
The mental image of one of these waddling around with bolted-on Manticore missile launchers is making me giggle more than it should. I just wanted an intro PPC SHD done right, which isn't hard...but the Manticore fluff was too perfect not to use, since it's also made in-setting.

I'm pleased the armor is AC-20 proof on the front and LL-proof on the rear. And still 14 heat sinks!

>>49881257
I could honestly care less about MOC drama but the fluff is so damn fitting and the mech looks just so fun. You did good.
Someone needs to draw it though.

>>49881022
Looks solid to me, reminds me a bit of the Merlin, now that I think about it

>>49881212
Christ man, knock it off with the damn MoC victim complex shit. You guys really are turning into the new Medrons.

>>49881022
Looks nice. Fuck the haters, do your thing man. We need more anons like you who do cool shit because it's cool.

>>49881212
Frankly, you're the one starting MoC drama most of the time. Even if you start it by trying to not start it.

>>49881359

It's not a vicitm complex to recognize that whenever somebody posts something even remotely interesting for the MOC lately, there's been at least one poster who completely loses his shit and fucks the thread. People are being bigger fucksticks than usual lately, and I blame CGL for not giving us any interesting product to talk about for months. The last thing that mattered was IntOps.

>>49881570
Hyperbole much? Most of what's been going on is just "oh man why does my periphery faction suck? The writers suck and it isn't fair!" Just stop it with that shit.

>>49881570
>>49881570
>rockstar announced Red Dead Redemption 2 today
>coming fall 2017
>They will build the fuck out of the hype of that game in one year

>CGL low key announced ilClan in 2013
>It was supposed to be released in 2013, then 2014, then when it is done, then 2017
>They get mad the few people hyped for the book keep questioning them about details

I wish CGL changes their hype and release culture someday

>>49881644
CGL has serious problems with release dates because they always go with the lowest bidder. So they always keep stuff on the quiet because they've announced many, many products only to have that release date pass with nothing to show for it. Remember the Clan Box, 25th Anniversary Book, and Leviathans? Or any of a LARGE number of books?

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Okay I'm working on a merc lance, have a Jenner and Enforcer so far.

Which of the two following mechs would best round it out:
>Wolfhound
>Battle Hawk
>Falconer
>Stalker

And when you guys make non-House/Clan units like mercs, do you roll with just camo paint schemes or like parade schemes? Trying to think of what to paint them.
Have a second lance I'm going to work on next but I'll concentrate on this one for now.

webm unrelated but nice to watch

>>49881212
Hey, man, at least no one's mentioned novacuck

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>>49881767
I mean it's funny but even I get tired of saying it. Plus I kind of feel sorry for the Novas after reading about how the Dracs cucked them hard.

>>49881644
Key difference: Rockstar has actual money whereas CGL has two rocks and one jackoff who slaps them together until a book falls out.

I agree with you in principle, but CGL has screwed themselves so hard that a recovery seems statistically unlikely at this point..

Just preface all MoC/TC related posts next thread with
>Trigger Warning: Nice Periphery Things
To save the one guy who gets really butthurt about it the blood pressure

>>49881755
Wolfhound will be a great merc mech because it's a tough fucker and no ammo
Stalkers are common so as long as you don't cheese out advance tech and it can be your tank and fire support.

>>49880812
Canonically-challenged?

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Shadow MOC guy here, figured I'd see what happened if you did the same thing to an Archer. Didn't have room for the PPC, but...y'know it kinda feels like a babby STK-3F now. If I slow it down, I could pull two HS for two LLs, but the heat curve would be somewhere near the Liberator's....

Oh well, have some LRM-SRM goodness and more heat sinks! Guess it makes a decent enough brawler that can shoot its way in or help out its mates. And again, Manticore parts, so...maybe I'll photoshop this one.

>>49882179
Reminds me of a somewhat better version of the lyran model

>>49882179
ARC-2S, anon. 2 LRM15s, 2 SRM4s.

>>49881792
at least the spirit cats are still a thing

>>49882579
Yeah, I wanted a bit more up-close-and-personal, and again 'Manticore weapons' being a silly-ass theme restriction.

>>49881022
>>49882179

Holy cow, fuck all of your shit. Pushing for even more Magestry shit that they can't make and don't deserve? You just aren't going to quit and go slink off to tumblr with the rest of your mentally-deficient tranny freinds, are you? You're just going to keep posting stuff that you think is all 'reasonable" and that's qualitiatively better than Capellan mech selections at the time. Fuck that and fuck you.Stop posting and spare us from your drivel.

>>49881212

Yeah, way to play the martyr. Maybe if you weren't a complete cuck and supported a real faction you'd have an argument, but the truth is that those designs are nice things and periphery states shouldn't fucking have them if a real state like the Capellans can't. Like I already needed a reason to want you dead, but you just gave me a great new one. somebody shoots you, and we don't have to listen to your wastes of electrons any more.

>>49882686
Hooray I've been sperg'ed at! What're the stats for your bullshit, how many tons and crits does it take up and how much damage is it supposed to do?

>>49879909
That's because they like AC/20s, which I wish would have continued instead of them becoming "babby Gausswall" faction instead. I realize it kinda makes sense with the Stealth armor, but you know what else makes sense? ArrowIV 'Mechs with Stealth Armor raining death on everyone while speedy TAG-equipped AC/20 boat mediums run around being assholes. Toss in some SG-LRM Stealth missile boats and Plasma Rifle troopers and I'm on board for crazy town. But naw, they had to get Gauss out the ass and CERPPCs. Boring.

>>49882704

Just kill yourself, and if you can take NEA and whoever else you can tell is a Magestry fanboi with you, so much better. Nothing of value will be lost with you cucks and your whole faction lying dead in a ditch.

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>>49881359
>>49881635

Enter exhibit A and B:
>>49882686
>>49882719

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>>49882729
You know, you could at least spend two minutes thinking of something funny. You know, like 'the magistracy should all die of some gigantic STD that they accidentally made and unleashed with their pleasure circuses' but I suppose your incel probably precludes considering such approaches from lack of experience or understanding.

Oh hey I forgot I made this. Enjoy!

>>49882719
God don't I wish, at least the Lu Wei Bing does it right. Shame the AC20 runs so warm; I get the Gauss love but that just seemed like a Lyran thing to me instead.