40k Codex criticism.

Don't forget:
>Gork/Morkanaughts. Transport five models at basic walking speed. No assault transport, no firing points. There is literallg nothing that benefits from riding in one. Meks can ride in to repair it, but it's completely inefficient at both close combat and shooting so there's no point spending even more on it to make it even more inefficient. It has a lot of hull points but can STILL be exploded in one shot. Literally the worst unit in the game.

>infantry heavy army with very fast FA/HS units
>no transports
>designed explicitly to be allied with another army, to the point of having a mixed formation

>>they have no transports either

I legitimately don't think Guard have it that bad in any real respect, but it has a lot of minor annoyances.

Lasguns especially are god awful and can't even keep a good volume of fire to keep on tier with anything else point wise. They're supposed to be terrible but investing even double the points won't give a good volume of fire.

Orders are half the time useless because you can only buff infantry so you're either buffing lasguns (woo-pee, ignores cover S3 AP-) or that Scion squad that shouldn't even be part of the 24" gunline.

Formations are also super expensive with minor buffs barring the Psykana Division. This is coupled with a lot of packaging/selling issues like Melta/Plasma only available in the HQ box, Rough Riders not even being sold and Wyrdvane Psykers being sold in boxes of 3 with a minimum of 5.

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We lost our 2+ armor to most guys right after I started playing, and a lack of invulnerable saves means even our biggest fuckers have survivability issues.
And in an edition where ap3 and plasma is so plentiful, would it kill you to give us some of that? Only reliable sources of ap3 shooting are zoanthropes, which are good, and exocrines, who are too short ranged for an "artillery" unit. And if you we're an assault based army, why does the armor on dedicated melee suck so hard?
I miss 4th edition.

>no decurion
>no more psybolts or psyflame
>bad dreadnoughts
>teleport army without servoskulls or other ways of making deep strike less dangerous
>all nemesis force weapons suck except hammers
>grandmaaters don't have 4w

>>49825788
>Grey Knights
>Complaining

>>49825843
>Grey Knights
>competitive

>>49825843
Gk lost a lot of their flavor recently

Now it's just baby carrier spam

>>49825281
Main complaint I have as CSM is a lack of options. I wouldn't mind the weakness as much if I could do more wacky stuff like teleporting rhinos through warp rifts or strapping a bunch of flamers to a terminator.

>>49826075
>40k
>competitive

>>49825420
If you're going to post, at least tell us you mean skitarii

>tyranids
>the entire thing

>>49826866
Thats because the best Tyranid codex by far was the 3rd edition. Where you could literally design your own 'species' n shit and it was fun

>>49826876
odd how chaos marines best codex was also in 3.5 times, and also let them design their own kind of marine monsters.

CSM

>lack of options, especialy painful if you remember 3.5 wargear pages
>close firefight oriented army, which is utter bullshit
>less options for more points compared to loyalists
>no fucking Legion rules when chapter rules exist, prooving something like Legion rules can ne easily done.
>general fucking too many points for ehat you get

Fluff will keep me with them firever tho

>>49826931
who wrote CSM back then do you know?

>>49827015
Pete Hines. IW fan, hardcore chaos player.

I may be complaining "with a full belly" (as we say down here), but I guess this thread is for every codex. So, here it goes:

>Broadsides and vehicles lost mobility
>Fireblade only gives buff if the unit he's in stays put
Gunline Tau is boring

>Planes suck ass
Looks like all the competent Air Caste pilots and Earth Caste aerospace engineers moved to Forge World

>Broadsides have similar cost, usage and size of Centurions, but aren't T5
I'd gladly give up TL for more toughness

>Coldstar can't take Iridium
Used him yesterday, died in 1 turn. Useless

>Kroot should have been our top melee units
>got sniper rounds, lost S bonus to melee, no Fleet or rules like Fearless/Stubborn
Already got shooting somewhere else

>Vespid
>basically worse plasma crisis
nuff said

>Railguns
Just one shot, hardly destroys anything with one-shot nowadays. Noone fears them anymore

>No way to manipulate reserves unless you use a 300p formation, and the same formation to bring people turn 1
It's almost as Tau never liked to use reserves!

>>49827307
Kroot have always been cannon fodder used to tie up the enemy to protect the 'first amongst equals'

>>49827307
>>Fireblade only gives buff if the unit he's in stays put
That must be one the stupidest thing ever. It's ultimately benign but who thought "Hum... I know what tau need! They need to gunline HARDER"?
It's like modding a game to ADD loading time.

Deathwatch:

>Only sergeants you're allowed to take are in non-Sternguard. Want Terminator/Bike/Vanguard sergeant? Fuck You, because reasons;

>Conversely, all the bits on sprues sergeants were able to take? Relic Blade on vanguards? Up to 20% of 3 above units sprues are useless, because nothing can take these;

>Non-Sternguard has only options found in kill team box, so if you want to use Sternguard kit, fuck you, you're missing a lot of gear. Bolt pistols? What's that? Combi-grav? We're the only marines for which it REALLY is nonexistent, which is funny given DW fluff. Also, hack writers forgot you pay 5 pts per model for special bolter ammo and didn't reduced cost of options replacing bolters accordingly.

>DW HQ has only options found on clamshell monopose garbage, so forget about taking bikes, jump packs, or terminator armour. Unless it's captain, who can take terminator armour with default relic blade, which for some fucked up reason can't be taken by anything else (yes, even the same captain if he doesn't take terminator option). Oh, and the same hack writer forgot the officers can take bolters in several options, so he didn't added special ammo to them. So, your HQ dudes have literally worst bolters in whole DW;

>Watch Master is melee oriented character armed with bolter, and no relentless and/or bolt pistol. Can you spot a problem here?

>Speaking of hack writers, the book was done by "I shill Eldar" Kelly and "I can't write for shit" Cruddace. Guess who, in DW vs Eldar game box, in campaign DW canonically won, got garbage rules and who got OP formations removing all weak sides of that army?

>>49825281
My friend plays orks and I was literally questioning the stikkbomb issue a couple of days ago. Ghazzy has stikkbombs but hits at I1 so... whats the point? The only real use I can see them having is if a boy squad is charging into cover with a power weapon wielding opponent

Having said that yes orks are melee, 6 point troop being able to put out 4 S4 WS4 hits each is pretty damn scary

>>49825655
Bugbro here, I feel your pain

I remember the days when nids could add like over half a dozen biomorphs to almost every unit in the codex. Carnifex could be 2+ T7 and all sorts of lovely combos. Also MC that are built for CC having a WS3? Means a guardsman is able to parry 50% of our MC attacks...
stealers have real issues closing gaps although the GSC stealers are perfect

Chaos Space Marine
>There aren't enough spiky bits in the kits.

>>49830666
You mean, s4 on the charge. Unless they're REALLY FIRED UP FUCKING LORD GW THAT MADE ME SO MAD. Also, nice trips Satan.

only started with 40K, but I was thinking, that CSM could a litte bit benefit from more chaos cultist support.
Not that cultists should become stronger, but more like, that there should be a few more cultist centered units.
Like...
...a pick-up with a mounted machine gun, driven by cultists, and who could be used as a transport method for them too
...a cultist leader or sorcererer as a HQ option
...some sort of cultist sniper
...there is even fluffwise stated, that chaos cultists could be former guardsmen too, so why are there no traitor/renegade guardsmen as units (Lost and Damned doesn't count)

Also, why is the sorcerer champion what you get with a rubric marine platoon only limited to psyker level 1? He should at least get the option to upgrade on level 2

My only complaint about GK is lack of variety of units. I want bikes, land speeders, tanks, and all the other base units that have been in marine regular armies forever.

>>49832541
>why are there no traitor/renegade guardsmen as units
They are, in the IG codex.

>>49832541
>Lost and Damned doesn't count
it does though

>>49827007

3.5 war gear pages were dumb. Half of it was shit like CCWs, grenades, and pistols.

>>49833433
Yeah, I wish GW fucking deleted the armoury once and for all. 5th ed was so much superior, individually balanced points and no need to flip back and forth 60000 times while making army...

>Black Templar
oh wait...

>>49825281
For Orks, that many of the units have no customization options at all.

>Gorkanaut has absolutely no options.
>Morkanaut either has a KFF or doesn't.
>Battlewagon can't take Big Gunz.
>The only option Flash Gitz have is to take a Battlewagon.
>The only option Stormboyz have is whether they take a Nob.
>The only option Warbikers have is whether they take a Nob.
>The only option Burnaboyz have is whether they take Meks.

That said, my major saltiness still lies with the Draft FAQ's "why does Grotsnik have a Cybork Body? Since he has Dok's Tools, wouldn't it be useless?"

"Yes it's useless. He's mad, after all!"

>>49829418
Wow, that actually sounds really bad.

I can deal with an army being unbalanced but oversights and inconsitances like forgetting to give some units special ammo would trigger my autism hard.

>>49833433
But on the flipside, there were some really useful tidbits, like being able to give Rhinos AV 12 or replace its Combi-Bolter with a Combi-Weapon on the cheap, rather than buying a second one, or being able to actually *choose* the Mutations for your Possessed at army creation...because Your Dudes and all that.

>>49825655
I also miss 4th.

I literally don't play the game anymore because faggots won't give some Tyranid homebrews a try.

A fucking dyslexic baltic man could write a better book than(what is it now, the hardcover - 6th or 7th?) the current dex.

>>49835301
3rd was better than 4th though

4th was still pretty hot tho

>>49835301
I'd be curious to know what you homebrewed. Like, I'd be that type if we met to give it a roll.

>>49835312
3.5 was the best.

Dark Eldar

>Wyches now 50% more useless!
>Ravagers lost airborne assault.
>No more shard Carbine trueborn.
>No more invulnerable saves on rocket propelled cardboard sleds.
>Sleds now come stock with Disintigrators, have to pay to upgrade to DLances.
>The one army I really wanted Horrorfexes for is immune to them (space marines).
>Goodbye Duke.
>Goodbye Vect.
>Reavers can't turbo boost drive by anymore.
>Only source of ap2 in melee is Incubi and Archite glave.
Last point isn't exactly Dark Eldar specific, but making Riptides/Wraith Knights gargantuan creatures was bullshit.

>>49835301
I also miss the build-a-bug codex and I don't even play nids.

>>49830729
I always saw it as the fex being slow and lumbering,with the guardsmen being able to just jump out of the way. They could get the scythe tail for killing guardsmen back in the day.

>>49826931
Not really odd, the rules guys were better and the design paradigm was more interesting.

>>49825281
>Orks are a melee army.
The best lists of every edition have been balanced toward shooting, except Nob Bikermob. Although melee has always been part of the plan, dakka has been superior.

>>49825281
>Tau
>There's no formation special rules that let me remind the opponent that I play Orks as my second army.

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>>49834334
Is it the answer from the same kind of shithead who was writing ork codex? I can't believe a fan of a race replying like this to an obvious typo/oversight.

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>Chimeras only have 2 fire pints now
>Tauroxs have 4 but look like shit
>Leman Russ ordnance + heavy tank type is annoying and stupid
>Wyverns rules are crazy annoying to roll out correctly
>Hydras stink and they are heavy support, put then in elites at least.
>No talarn, modian, vahallan, ect ect

And give us some new Cadian sprues for damned sake, I get not wanting to do a whole new army, but these models are blocky, huge and all mono pose goons. The basilisk dosent even come with a heavy bolter becuse the turret parts are from the old cut of the Chimera.
>Poor ol' Catachans...

We're ok, but ultimately guardsmen are just there to deliver there paided for weapon and die. The gimmick we get are artillary and tanks that are from an era of 40k where just straight statlines was aow you fought.

>Pic, space marines anrnt to small, gaurd are to big.

>>49828934
Tau being very static kind of bugs me, since fluffwise they're supposed to favor mobility. In practice they're pretty much going to sit in place most of the times, as the infantry is slow and Broadsides and Stormsurges lose firepower when moving.

Speaking of things that bug me with Tau, it's annoying they didn't do anything to Broadside railguns. Missilesides are one of best units in the book, but the railgun is worse in almost every situation.

>>49834334
>That said, my major saltiness still lies with the Draft FAQ's "why does Grotsnik have a Cybork Body? Since he has Dok's Tools, wouldn't it be useless?"

It's probably the primarily for fluff. He's a kybork, so he has the kybork body upgrade.
Same how in the CSM codex Dark Apostoles can buy the veteran of the long war rule for 0 points, despite gaining no benefit from it (they already have ld10 and hatered), because it makes sense for a traitor legion Dark Apostole to be a veteran of the long war.

>>49825281
>Haven't played since mid 6ed.
>Recently checked new stuff
>fucking dormations everywhere.
>not using them is like shooting yourself in the foot, since all the powerful rules coming from ations themselves or formaction-focs
>D-strenght and giant fucking robots everywhere, entire armies of them
>DEs have mechanics that favour dragging the game.
>Rules spread all over the place, you need a dozen sources to make a decent Nid army, as opposed to a single codex previously

Fuck geedubs. Fuck them with a chainsword.
Switching to WarhmaHordes was a right idea, as the game went to shit.

>>49840024
Sadly 40k is the only wargame really played at my LGS

>Warmahordes taking off
>PG that's disorganized as fuck
>store owner shits on Warmahordes whenever possible since he can't grasp the rules
>most lose interest in it or are interested and don't start since owner talks it down.

A Malifaux community is starting up, here's hoping it survives.

>>49825523
>Orders are half the time useless because you can only buff infantry so you're either buffing lasguns (woo-pee, ignores cover S3 AP-)
Nigger you're supposed to use that on your heavy weapons teams with like 36 lascannons, what are you doing.

>Necrons
They no longer stand up. I know the new rules for RP are better than IWBB, but still, that was the main reason I started playing them in 5th.
Monolith and pylon seemingly getting worse with every new rules ititereation.

>>49839291
Yeah, I would want to see Tau playing hit and run. Crisis played like that at one time.
I guess table may be too small to develop too much that type of strategy.

>>49840314
Fu*king heavy weapons teams, dont get me started.
2 wounds on a toughnes 3 unit, why bother, lose 1 and the unit runs away because of leadership 7 with no good way to boost it.
All the good orders that would make them better,( not good but better, still Bs 3 so half of everything will miss) is comming from Company Command Squads, they get 2 orders at crap range and with Heavy Weapons Squads you cant give vox-casters to so your rolling against leadership 7.
The squads are to small to be effectivly boosted, use a spyker to Twin-link?
He cost almost as much as the 3 dudes with guns, attach a commissar to boost Leadership?
The commissar cost´s something along the line of 25% of units already high cost and any strenght 6 attack will insta kill a weapons team.

>>49832541
>Also, why is the sorcerer champion what you get with a rubric marine platoon only limited to psyker level 1? He should at least get the option to upgrade on level 2

Funny thing, he alone is almost the cost of a barebones Sorcerer. Yeah, a sergeant having HQ cost.

>>49835823
>Riptides/Wraith Knights gargantuan creatures was bullshit.
>Riptides
>Gargantuan

wat

>>49840127
>store owner shits on Warmahordes whenever possible since he can't grasp the rules
Oh god, I'm so sorry. Dude won a golden star on 'how to lose clients'

>>49840965
>orders at crap range
> Radio not allowing long range orders...

>chimeras only having 2 fire points
>infantry platoon only takes up 1 troop slot forcing new players to field veterans for ages
>no special rules for the special regiments
>units that no longer have models
>ordnance fuckery on tanks
>weakness of vehicles compared to MC
and the obvious 6th ed codex in 7th issue
also i would love the vox casters to work like actual radios instead of re rolling orders
like in the arty formation or allowing orders to be broadcasted across beyond the normal max range
>>49840965
you can spam CCS thanks to the cadian detachment , a regimental standard allows leadership to be rerolled netting you a 75% chance to pass, upgrading it to a relic creates an 18 inch fearless bubble volkov's cane only fails orders on a 12 , plant your HWS behind a aegis et voila they now have a 2+ save (doesn't work with the relic) when going to ground and get back in the fight allows them to still fire at full BS plunk in an ammo dump and you reroll 1's put down a gun emplacement and let your CCS fire it while they're over there

>>49841612
>>49840965

oh and i forgot to mention , CCS from the cadian detachment can issue up to 3 orders per turn

>>49833953
Yeah, poor Black Templars, shafted so hard. Not only they have native access to all the formations and toys SM get (because some uppity second founder would have more contemptors and cataphractii terminators than such insignificant forces as DA, BA, GK, or DW, eh?) they also get their own special snowflake units on top of it, being in effect Marines ++. And it's only their own brain dead stupidity (hating psykers while worshipping Emperor and using them to actually get anywhere and receive mail - no hypocrisy there, none at all) for which they can't blame anyone else that holds back their access to anything...

Can't put any Dark Eldar HQ on a Reaver Jetbike.

>>49842903
>Not only they have native access to all the formations

None of them have Crusader squads.

>And it's only their own brain dead stupidity (hating psykers while worshipping Emperor and using them to actually get anywhere and receive mail - no hypocrisy there, none at all) for which they can't blame anyone else that holds back their access to anything...

They don't hate psykers anymore, they just lost their librarius.

>>49830729
I would imagine it's like stabbing a murderous horse rather than the insect dinosaur most people seem to picture.

>>49837013
Yeah Orks are really a tarpit close assault army more than a dedicated melee force.


Case in point is >>49825346's complaint - they're 13/13/12 with 5HP, they can wade right through that blob of guard and shrug off anything a tac equivalent can throw at them except special and heavy weapons, firing back enough to make those heavy and special weapons' survival a real issue - deathstars. That's all. You wade into the throng and play like an Ork - doesn't matter if you're losing the melees around you because you've got plentiful cheap troops, mass transport battlewagons, and even if you somehow lose the fight you've got a 30% chance of ignoring morale completely and an 80% chance of ignoring it overall.

>but muh

Play better. Roll luckier dice. Learn what your opponent is expecting to get away with and surprise him with tactical choices he wasn't prepared for.

>>49825523
>>49841612
>units that no longer have models
>Rough Riders not even being sold

They're on-demand now, I believe. Or they will be.

Special rules for special regiments was garbage anyway. Look a the mechanics of snipers in Catachan 3E, they're just awful.

>>49826375

It's surprising how close the basic options for CSM are to the Crusade Legion basics from 30k.

>>49834334
>>The only option Flash Gitz have is to take a Battlewagon.

Trukk/Battlewagon, and you can literally smother a wagon in gunz.

You can even throw away a Heavy Support slow and put them in a Looted Wagon now. Or just agree with your opponent that they should get them as a DC option. 24"/7/3/Ordnance, Large Blast Killcannons don't hurt either, especially on your 14/12/10/4HP battlewagon or your 37 point Rhino equivalent.

>>49844186
>They're on-demand now, I believe. Or they will be.
If someone ever bought one. I mean the point? It does not work on the tabletop, and models themselves aren't good either.

>>49843883
>None of them have Crusader squads.

So what? Most of best formations have no tactical squads, either. Want Skyhammer of grav spam? Done, while until recently BA and DA could only gnash their teeth and point to their fluff stating they are masters of orbital/assault attacks and have piles of old gear so they should get it too. Yeah, BT are so shafted because they got it instantly despite literally nothing in their fluff saying they should.

As for tacticals, they only matter in demi companies, and nothing stops you from calling tactical squad a crusader unit (with sarge being sword brethren or something). Yes, you can't take your special snowflake meatshields but seeing demi companies are heavy MSU, it does not matter in the slightest.

Meanwhile, other marine commanders have zero access to special snowflake units of BT, particularly crusaders, who can be minmaxed far more efficiently than tacticals are. That's the point, you have options no one else has while having access to more stuff than every SM chapter found in main book, and far more than stand alone SM books. BA, GK, and DA had piles of old terminator gear during heresy? Fuck them, apparently BT stole it all in meantime.

And to top it off and cement special snowflake status, with new recent stupid rules that chapter tactics need to be WYSIWYG, during tournament Ultramarine or Iron Hand player has choice set in stone, while Dornflakes can pick and choose between 3 chapters worth of relics, traits, and tactics, not at once but it's again far more choice than everyone else has.

TL/DR - cry me a river, Tempie, 90% of books in WH40K would love to be so shafted and have so easy access to so many special toys BT have...

>>49845155
Blood Angels and Dark Angels shouldn't have their own codices anyway, there's nothing special about them.

>>49841051
The guy basically poisons the well of any game that he doesn't play.

Currently that list is just 40k, AoS, and that new Tanks game.

>>49845187

dark angels certainly warrant a codex since they're only slightly more codex compliant than the space wolves, what with one of their companies being composed entirely of bikes and another made entirely out of teminators.

then theres all the specialist equipment that no one else has like plasma talons or the darkshroud

and the fact that they're super fucking aloof and don't like dealing with other chapters

and the fact that they're TOTALLY NOT REBUILDING THE LEGION GUYS

unfortunately the blood angels are seriously struggling to warrent a book of their own in their current state, both in the lore and the crunch.

they desperately need to be made more divergent or rolled into the main book (really hoping for the former as a blood angels player)

>>49844186
>It's surprising how close the basic options for CSM are to the Crusade Legion basics from 30k.

I think this is the most annoying thing for CSM players. You have 10,000 years of heretech and abominations and we are stuck with standard pattern rhinos, preds, vinds, and land raiders.

The reaspm is no sprues for weapon options because of GW's no model: no rules stance, but it is still annoying.

>>49845533
First company of nearly all marine chapters is composed of terminators (although most admittably don't have a full 100 sets of termie armour, so some veterans will be wearing power armour). They could've just had Deathwing as a generic "1st company list" rather than DA specific.

And most of those other special toys were onyl added after the DA already had their own codex. The original DA codex was extremely bare-bonres. Aside from being able to wield all-terminator or all-bike lists, the only difference between them and vanilla marines dex of the same edition was different special characters.

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WHY THE FUCK DON'T WE HAVE A GODDAMN HQ CHOICE?
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>49825281
Imperial Guard officers and Sargent's have no way whatsofuckingever to get lasguns when 99% of the goddamn time they have them in the lore. EVEN THOUGH EVERY KIT FOR IG HAS ENOUGH LASGUNS TO OUTFIT THE ENTIRE SQUAD INCLUDING THE SARGEJEHJXNEHDJD. Even the new stormtrooper entry, where used to be they could all have rifles, and the new kit, which has enough rifles for everyone, they TOOK THE SARGE RIFLE AWAY.

Seriously what the fuck, even the goddamn orks can take shootas on their nobs, and you're telling me an army BUILT AROUND SHOOTING cannot get a basic rifle for their NCO's and officers?!? We can't even get shotguns anymore, used to be we at least had that in the old codex. God dammit this should not make me so mad but it bugs the fuck out of me having those Sarge's sitting there being useless all the time because the fucksticks just had to bring their chainsaw swords to a rifle fight.

I mean honestly I just care for kill team, but you'd think something that shows up in nearly every fucking book written about the IG would be an option in their codex. For fuck's sake we can even stick bolters in our basic squads now? You seriously mean to tell me a friggin bolter is easier to come across than a rifle?

/rant

>>49845155
crazy thought, maybe he misses the fluffier options and isn't just trying to minmax his army like a munchkin

>>49846999
trips speak the truth

>>49825281
Dark Eldar:

>Why did they trim out half of the special characters? I liked some of them, particularly the duke.

>Power from Pain is quite obviously written for Wyches and does little for anyone else, though the HC supplement does at last alter this for them.

>Let's be honest, Realpace Raiders is a waste of a formation slot since it's pretty much a standard CAD.

Aside form that my only gripe is that the Haemonculus model looks shit and there really should be more than one fo them, he totally isn't how I picture a haemonculus looking at all, though that's not codex.

Aside from that I'm happy.

>>49844186
I was in no way saying that Orks aren't hard done by or shouldn't complain.

Orkanaughts are still crap that would be mediocre at half the price. They are immune to small arms in a game where large arms are plentiful, whoop-de-fucking-Doo.

Tarpit as an army strategy is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

>>49825281
>things that irritate you about the codex of your favourite army
>sisters of battle

I have literally nothing to complain about.
;_;