Drawfaggotry of Botes

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>>49818308
Got plenty of ship photos, but don't know I've got any art

I'd ask /k/ about the minimum range stuff

I once requested a boat (well, kind of) on a drawthread, but it got no replies.

Have a boat bump with two of the most famous ships of the Royal Navy

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>>49818998
Reason I am asking is that I am runnning a fleet in a 'strangereal' sort of world, and I wanted an image for the team so they could go FUCKYEAURGH!

We have a Courbet, Andy Dory, Furutaka, Pensacola, and a Salamis.

>>49818308
Okay first, spelling it like that every time makes me want to strangle you. I think you're doing it on purpose.

Second, what do you mean "no one ever drew any boats"? Like where do you feel entitled to find boat drawings? Where are you talking about?

Third, asking for art of boats is off topic for this board. Find the appropriate one.

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>>49819055
>Boat Drawings
>Not /tg
>Ignores Historical Wargaming entirely

Naval Warfare is a huge section of actual wargaming, so fuck off mate.

>>49819055
I spell it Botes, because 'No Botes Allowed' is a popular 4chan meme for World of Warships, Navy Field and Steel Ocean.

>>49819129
Ok, the first two I know, but wtf is Steel Ocean?

>>49819080
Asking for drawings of boats isn't /tg/.

Making a thread to discuss any Naval Historial Wargame is.

Shall I make a thread asking people to draw horses for me because there are games with cars in them?

>>49819252
>Shall I make a thread asking people to draw horses for me because there are games with cars in them?

So, like most of the old drawthreads on /tg/?

You are the CANCER anon!

>>49819055
It's probably shit along the lines of "doggo" and "snek"

>>49819054
This actually looks like Jackie Fisher's work...

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>>49819054
Only got photos I'm afraid

Don't think asking for ships would get you very far in the drawthread, but it might be worth a shot

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>>49819252
>Asking for drawings of boats isn't /tg/.

Uhh, it is, OP posted why he needed it, which is a game.

Go shit up some other thread.

OP, have a boat.

>>49819307
Mmmmm, some delicious High Seas fleet you got going on there OP.

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>>49819325
Not OP

I do have a couple of ships firing though, if they're wanted?

>>49819357
I'll always take boat photos.

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>>49819410

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>>49819465

>>49819465
The cool thing about that shot is you can clearly see that the guns do not fire all together, they are staggered so as to not disrupt the accuracy of each shell exiting a barrel with muzzle blast.

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>>49819494

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USS Joisey shelling some poor dumb bastards.

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>>49819589

>>49819753
Where the hell do the spent casings go?

>>49819129
>/VG/ 'memes'
>Popular across all of 4chan.

If you're already in deep with those generals, ask them if they have any collections of ships to share. That said, war get drawn all the time, it's a heavily romanticized aspect of society.

>>49819859
oddly enough, naval art is really hard to find good (modern) stuff of. Lot of shitty 1970 era drawings of WW2 stuff, but no good HQ stuff.

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>>49819859
To add onto this, Google 'paintings of ww1 warships. There are some pretty cool results. Pic related. The boxes for model ships are great for this.

Wait. Are you asking people to draw art for your game for free?

>>49819920
No, he's asking if people have already drawn battleships. He wants a battleship dump, but he doesn't know how to say it because he spends all if his time on /v/

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>>49819920
Not that uncommon on /tg/. Used to be a big thing, you had cool experiences, some drawfag got inspired, then they drew the shit out of it.

Pic related.

>>49819984
>>49819942
Wait which is it?

It's neither, look
>I need some bote art for some bote game I'm working on

He's working on some homebrew, and asking for art.

The thread is about drawfags

>>49820020
>Anyone have boat art they wish to share?

Implies he wants art that already exists, and is not expecting people to draw it for him.

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One of the nicest Warship photos I have ever seen.

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>>49819054

>>49820355
Go be french somewhere else.

Such a stupid design.

>>49819080
>alaska
>battlecruiser

>>49820368
Reknown and Scharnhorst as well.

>>49820365
He wanted 'strangereal' ships, the surcouf is the weirdest thing I could think of.

>>49819772
paper cartridges dont have casings, everything that is loaded in is shot out or deflegrated.

>>49820548
You need to look at that video again. And the final powder load in german ships was a brass casing, since the sliding block the germans used wouldn't seal properly like a wellin would.

>>49820574
You're right, it probably gets sent below deck to be reloaded, or saved for brass content and brought back to harbor.

I want a drawfag to depict two commandos in a chainsaw duel on top of a sinking higgans boat coasting on a wave made by a nuclear explosion in an ocean of blood.

I always request that in any drawfag thread, which is almost never.

>>49820418
Strangereal is an Ace Combat thing. It's the world it's set in, where you've got factions using all sorts of weird combinations of real-world equipment.

>>49820609
Pity the poor deckhand who gets that dropped on him.

>>49819080
Coastal Defense Ships:
Sverige
Väinämöinen

Heavy Cruisers:
Alaska
Deutschland

Battlecruisers:
Admiral
Kongou
Moltke
Renown

Pre-dreads:
Mississippi

Dreadnought battleships (both slow and fast kind):
The rest

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Got Strange and Real covered, anon.

>>49820706
Alaska was a Battlecruiser by any definition.

>>49820741
Sure, if she had been built in 1910's that is. By 1940's she was neither faster than the contemporary US battleship design (Iowa) nor did she carry battleship scale guns. Not to mention that the role that the USN had envisioned to her was remarkably different from the one that they had planned for their CCs.

>>49820823
Battlecruiser: A fast, heavily armed, lightly armoured ship designed to hunt down enemy cruisers.

>>49820823
She had 9x12 inch guns, that's battleship levels of armament, and a good inch larger then the Scharnhorst.

Is there a word for people who love Ships and Naval history? It has always fascinated me.

>>49820909
Boatfuckers

>>49820909
Shipophiles.
FuckNauts.
Seamen.

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Is there any connection between the Kongo class and the Queen Elizabeth class? I know the Kongos were built in Britain, but do they have any design heritage in common other than being fast battleships with balanced 2x4 gun layouts?

>>49822504
Nope. The closest English relatives for the Kongou class probably would be other CCs designed in UK before the WWI so you should be looking at ships like Lions or HMS Tiger.

>>49822504
The Kongo is related heavily to the Tiger class Battlecruiser. Basically built in Britain, given to the Japanese, who reverse engineered it and made it worse.

>>49822696
I don't see how upgrading a Battlecruiser to a fast battleship is making it worse.

>>49822725
They added more weight, which sank the boat, which made her ship water constantly, and put most of her belt below the waterline, ie, not that useful. They added a ton of topweight, and even with improved boilers, she was no match for anything on the ocean, Especially not the QEs which modernized quite well, or the Admiral class, which outperformed her in every measurable way.

>>49822696
It is pretty hilarious to be honest.
>get fucking blueprints for the ship, some of the harder to make materials shipped to you and vickers' take in quite few of your people in so that they can observe how brit's built boats
>still can't make the turrets for rest of the bongous to have same elevation as the vickers' built ones

>>49822725
It does increase the risk of the idiots in charge treating them like battleships instead of cruiser killers (the role that they may or may not had been able to fulfill during the 40's given Hiei's abysmal performance against American treaty cruisers during the Guadalcanal).

>>49822747
Oh, and that top weight made her metacentric and rolling points REALLY BAD, so unless the ocean was near dead calm, she'd pitch and roll with no inherent stability.

Kongo was a very good boat in 1916~1920. After that, they could not be modernized unless they did a complete rebuild like the Doria class the Italians had, and even that was only somewhat successful. The Japanese then wasted time on the Fuso and Ise, before realizing that they should have been working on the Nagatos instead.

Japanese BB building is really one big screw up after another, they were always behind the times with their shipbuilding program.

>>49822764
Basically Nagatos were the only decent battleships designed by the Japanese.

>>49822786
Yamato's armed with 16 inch guns would have been ok if they'd put radar on the damn things, and a little more AA, but at that point carriers were kings.

>>49822808
Then you would just have a slower, more expensive Iowa.

>>49822827
Well, the Yamato's armor was a lot better then the Iowa. Montana had real armor protection, but the Iowa's armor was a joke against even 15 inch guns. Only decent armor on the Iowa was on the turret face, the belt was pretty bad.

Iowa still wins against Yamato most of the time though, since RADAR was built into the design.

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>>49822724

Two Naval threads on /tg/?

I am in heaven.

>>49822855
Iowa had better damage control practices though. Yamato is a hotel, not a warship

>>49822827
You mean an overweight South Dakota with shittier shells.

>>49822904
Oh I am not going to sit here and say really anything good about the Japanese Navy, but I have to give credit to the Yamato as a design, except for the Radar issue.

Just like I'll give credit to the KGV for being probably the only treaty battleship that obeyed the treaty, and outperforming ships that outmassed it by a lot (Bismarck).

>>49822904
At least partly her hotel-status can be blamed on Japan's obsession with muh decisive battle and their need to preserve her virginity until then.

>>49819307
Was this before the mass scuttling in scapa flow?

>>49822920
Dunkerques were also pretty treaty compliant.

>>49822868
I kind of want to play Victory at Sea again, but finding players at the FLGS is next to impossible. Full of 40k tards.

>>49818308
>botes

stop being a faggot

>>49822943
Dunkerques were way under treaty. Richlieu was over treaty, but probably almost as good as the KGV class was. Italy and Germany just lied, Japan as well, and America had the money/industry to retool for much bigger ships. Only the French and the British built true treaty ships, and of the two, I'd say the KGV used her weight the best. Richilieu was runner up.

>>49822764
If you want to see what a well upgraded WW1 cc looks like Renown would probably be the best bet. Of course she also has the advantage of starting off as purely oil firing ship unlike Kongous.

>>49820418

It is pretty out there. Do you have more submarine drawings and pics. Also more info on the accuracy and performance of surcouf's main armament would be appriciated. (Most of the detailed infor i've stumbled across has been in French which is a language I don't know)

>>49820651

Damn straight

>>49822986
>Surcouf Guns

http://navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_8-50_m1924.php

8 inch guns, basically heavy cruiser guns.

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What do you guys think about sphesbotes?

>>49820728
>>49820714

More aux cruisers plz

>>49823005
Fun to watch, but not relevant to the discussion

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>>49822986

>>49823010
Well it's a drawthread, and I'm considering drawing some.

>>49823004

Thanks.

>>49823026

Fictional or was this actually dreamed up for a practical role?

>>49823060
http://dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/SM_Projekt_50_1918/

Real.

>>49823060
Dreamed up by Imperial German Navy, ordered in 1918 but wasn't laid down before the war ended

>>49822725
It is pretty fun how the overgrown heavy cruisers that yanks built and didn't even bother to consider as capital ships ended up being faster and more heavily armed&armored than what Japanese tried to pass off as fast battleships.

>>49823094
Which Heavy cruiser was better armed/armored then a Kongo?

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>>49823101

>>49823033

If the thread is still up tommorow I may make a request for the Ship my current game of Rogue Trader is taking place on.

>>49823078
>>49823074

Wow. Thank you.

>>49823094

What you mean like the Indianapolis ?

>>49823130
US CA: 8 inch guns, 3~4 inch belt armour.
Kongo: 14 inch guns, 9 inch belt.

Yeah, I think the Kongo could take the cruiser.

>>49823094

Tell me about British destroyers in WW II.

The only one I ever hear about was camel town and she was a converted WW1 American Destroyer.

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>>49823149
Also, the I-400s. Designed to carry and launch floatplanes, they were planned to do an operation near the end of the war where they would drop virus bombs on US cities, but the war ended before that could happen.

>>49823181
The British built a whole series of Destroyers known as "War Emergency" where the idea was to put on whatever guns happened to be available at the shipyard, and send it out to sea to protect the convoys.

By the end of the war, the Tribal class was probably one of the best escort destroyers in any fleet, and the Royal Navy was the best navy in the world at hunting submarines.

RN torps were also known to be very good, but at the time the RN placed more emphasis on the escort role then the offensive role.

Almost every RN DD that put to sea had search radar, so there is that too.

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>>49823176
Which is exactly why Hiei blew USS San Francisco up during their encounter at Guadalcanal.

requesting shipladies for Enterprise (WW2) and Enterprise (first nuclear carrier) trying to drag Nautilus out for a night on the town.

>>49823223

Yep, all those cruisers and destroyers couldn't take on the two battlecruisers and win, well not convincingly. Aircraft Carrier sank the BCs eventually.

>>49823198

Whitehead torpedoes were garbage, what developments saw the tribals equipped with reliable torpeedoes?

>>49823247
21 inch Mark VIII

Great torpedo. Made in 1927. Sank the Argentinians in 1983.

>>49823240
I would call a treaty cruiser crippling a ship three times her displacement a pretty solid win for the cruiser.

>>49823198

What planes were British carriers equipped with in the latter half of the war in the Pacific?

Modded hurricanes and Fairy Swordfish?

>>49823272

Nah they were using a mixture of American planes and captured German missiles.

>>49823176
Alaska class large/heavy/battle/whoever knows what cruiser 3x3 12 inch guns, 9 inch belt, 33 knots.

>>49823267
Not really, it was a night action, the BCs had HE loaded instead of AP, etc. And the BCs flat out crippled all the american cruisers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Battle_of_Guadalcanal

Only Air Power really made that a win for the Americans.

The Kongos did very well, and survived a pounding.

Troybilt orr huskavarna chainsaws also the landing craft or the pt boat

>>49823094

How is it more heavily armored?

>>49823318
Air power AND radar, not to mention some luck. American task force got beat the hell up.

>>49820635
>>49823346
Forgot to link

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>>49822696
Reading the Wikipedia article on Battle-cruisers, the British actually ended up incorporating design features from the Kongo back into the tiger class, namely making sure all the turrets are super-firing because fuck midships turrets.

The Japs didn't exactly invent that though. I'm honestly suprised it took the brits so long to figure out where to put the damn guns on a dreadnought. Fucking wing turrets for big guns, seriously?

>>49823356
Bongou: 8 to 6 inch belt, 10 inch turret face, deck 3 inches (with parts of it being reinforced 6 inches)
Alaska: 9 to 5 inch belt, 12.8 inch turret face, 4 inch armor deck with 1.40 inch main deck and 0.65 inch splinter deck

Of course this ignores the slight fact that the Japanese armor tended to be of somewhat weaker than its American and English counterparts.

>>49823521
Only feature that got incorporated from Kongou to Tiger was it's lower belt, Tiger had superfiring aft turrets since the beginning of her design process.

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>>49823194
And now one is a main character in a manga series.

Imagine you are in charge of British naval development pre-WWI. What changes would you make to the Dreadnaught, and would you have built as many battlecruisers knowing how Jutland would turn out, or would you have just used them differently?

>>49823614
>knowing how Jutland would turn out
I would erase the idiotic ammo handling practices that led to the magazine explosions

>>49823604
>Maximum speed: more than 80 knots submerged
Jesus that is a fucking fast boat

>>49823614
Personally I would had gone with the German design for the battlecruisers and tried to made sure that the ammo safety regulations would not ignored for the sake of the muh rounds per minute.

>>49823677
What was the german design?

>>49823726
Mostly trading firepower for speed instead of Fisher's trading armor for speed.

>>49823726
Brits wanted a strong raider, so they downgraded armor but upped the guns.

Germans wanted a ship that could still function on the battleline, so they downgraded guns but kept the armor and got a moderate increase in speed.

>>49823750
For example compare Orions to the Lion class and Könings to the Derfflinger class and you can see the difference between british and german design ideologies.

>>49823643
It is a space future nanomachines son boat.

>>49823272
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Seafire

>>49823217
Oooo, Purty!

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Not sure if this is what you want OP, but it is a battleship shooting at another battleship.

>>49823614
None. British Dreadnaughts worked as designed in Jutland, in fact the QE was massively better then any german ship.

Battlecruisers, I'd still keep them. People forget that the battle of Helgoland Bight was won by the battlecruisers, which thrashed the germans something fierce.

>>49826726
Hey, a KGV! Cool, what game is this?

>>49826763
I would hardly call beating up couple light cruisers armed with 4 inch guns and their support elements particularly impressive fight. If you want to argue that the British battlecruisers were worth of the steel used to built them then you probably should go with the battle of the Falklands (which probably also was the only time that they're used in the role that they're originally intended).

>>49827326
>beating up couple light cruisers armed with 4 inch guns and their support elements

That's what they were designed to do.

>>49828118
Seems rather wasteful to built a +20k ton dreadnought cruiser armed with +12 inch guns to sunk what can just as well be handled by a 5k ton light cruisers armed with 6 inch guns.

>>49820292
>Irish_saboteurs_infiltrate_HMS_Belfast.jpg

>>49826824
Looks like steel ocean to me, free to play game on steam.

>>49829373
That's World of warships, yah dummy. Steel ocean is a much better game with far less players.

>>49829576
>Steel ocean is a much better game
Understatement of the thread.

>>49829576
Are there any good botegaems that aren't multiplayer grindfests?

>>49829878
Sorta depends on what you want from boat games.

>>49829576
I'm fairly certain thats not WoWS, the only RN BB in the game currently is the warspite.

>>49829878
The Silent Hunter franchise if you like subs.

>>49830013
SH went to shit after the 3 one.

>>49829897
I just wanna play with boats. Either controlling a fleet of them, or commanding an individual one. As long as it's not some shitty MMO. WoWs's leveling system means that the more you enjoy playing with a specific ship, the less time you will be able to use it unless you want to shell out money for xp conversions, or let all your XP go to waste.

>>49830013
I don't mind subs, but the focus should be on naval combat in general.

>>49829908
I can tell by the pixels.

Steel ocean looks different, if memory serves.

>>49830098
Rule the Waves might be a decent choice then.

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>>49830041
>Sh3 was the last good one
Literally ok, shitter.

>>49830118
Looks cool but I'm not sure I can drop cash on it right now.

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>>49830118
fuck i love me some rule the waves.

>>49830773
Shit can get pretty fucked up.
>end up having 8 years long world war against UK as US because the fucking limeys couldn't just let me to colonize haiti
>most of eastern canada probably ends up turned into no man's land thanks to army's years long campaigns that fail to archive any decisive victory
>end up turning the northeastearn coast into ironbottom sound, littered with wrecks of both american and british ships (rip 8 star cc lexington, i had planned to turn you into a museum once the war was over but that fucking destroyer had just to go and torpedo you)
>8 years of bloody stalemate later
>finally fucking peace
>end up getting haiti, newfoundland, new brunswick and bahamas

Great times.

>>49829878
Atlantic Fleet on steam.

And yes, the screenshot is from steel ocean. It is a Lion Battleship against a Yamato and a Tosa.

>>49826726
Shit if that is Steel Ocean, did it get a graphics bump?

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>>49831913
Well, not really, that is the game on Max settings. It is still a lot less pretty then warships, but the gameplay is far superior then warships.

Give it some time, but the variety of boats makes it worthwhile. It also has subs.

Here is an Orion class BB shooting some poor bastard. Not the greatest graphics, but enough to look 'cool' in screenshots.

>>49831848
I'm kind of interested in that, but the combination of turn based gameplay and realistic 3d graphics look kind of frustrating. Watching the ships just sit there motionless with wakes trailing behind them as the waves crash against them in an endless loop makes me seasick.

>>49819226
Similar to WoWS, with the addition of subs and a server population of a ghost town. Its available in Steam.

>>49819307
I love that turret configuration, who cares if it isn't all that practical? It looks sexy as fuck.

>>49820642
Ace Combat also uses purely fictional designs, or have you forgotten the Wyvern, Falken, and Morgan?

>>49823026
>submarine
>funnels

Why? Hadn't the Brits already shown what a fucking disaster that is?

>>49833108
450 players at any one time, I wouldn't call that a Ghost Town. They added bots at lower tiers as well so new players get matches within 60 seconds.

>>49833233
Ah yes, the K-Class, a submarine that could, if diving quickly, exceed it's own crush depth at the bow while the stern was sticking out of the water.

Read about the "Battle of May Island" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_May_Island

Overall though, the british had very nice subs in WW2, they just don't get much recognition.

>>49823604
>Faster underwater than above water
>laughably improbable speeds

Dammit Japan, I was thinking about watching this.

>>49831942
Do the boats still handle like RC cars? That was the worst thing about that fucking game

>>49833329
I guess you'd have dropped it around the point where photon torpedoes and wave motion guns come into play.

Your loss for missing out on Darth Kongou and her Deathstar.

>>49833398
I can suspend disbelief for a lot of things (I like mobilesuits, for fucks sake) but...maybe its harder for things in actually knowledgeable about? I dunno, it rubs me the wrong way.

>>49833441
Then how is it difficult to not believe that a super advanced ship can gofast?

>>49833563
It's a WW2 submarine. Top speed was 19 knots on the surface and a whopping seven while submerged.

>>49833620
I didn't realize that imperial japan had access to laser cannons and nanobots.

>>49833353
Depends, ship accel is the only thing that is a bit 'wrong', crash stops in most boats can be done within one or two ship lengths. They reduced the accel for the larger boats a lot, DDs still have pretty good accel. As for turns, speed impacts turning radius and rate now, so there's more at play.

Seems ok to me for the most part, a lot better then the slow as balls Warships gameplay.

>>49833620
No, it's a hyper advanced nano machine constructed, almost literally a space ship, weapon of war controlled by an advanced AI that likes to play dress up as a WWII submarine.

>>49833770
But...why? Aren't they all WW2 IJN ships?

>>49833796
Nobody knows.

Literally, they're still figuring that shit out in the manga.

There's also British, American and German ships at the very least, all of which are again nanomachine based weapons of war armed with lasers, supercavitating torpedo's, shields and stupidly smart, powerful and effective missiles.

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>>49819307
>At least One turret will always be obscured no matter what angle you are firing.
>Even when firing straight ahead, one or both of the wing turrets will be obscured by the forward turret.

It's shit. Don't try to defend it. Had they gone with a 2x2-2x2 super-firing configuration they could have had the same firepower with 20% less weight, and more room for bigger boilers for more speed.

Stacked turrets are sexy as fuck looking, and they allow for 100% firepower in a broadside, and no less than 50% firepower in any arbitrary direction.

If I could instruct Fisher as per >>49823614 I'd just give him a napkin sketch of the south Carolina's gun layout and tell him to make sure battle-cruiser crews obey proper ammo handling procedures.

>>49833829
Hm. Maybe I'll chance it after all.

>>49833829
>supercavitating torpedo's

>super advanced technology
>uses torpedoes that can only go in a straight line

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>>49833866
I'd suggest reading the manga, it's better than the anime and movie.

>>49833888
Excuse me, supercavitating, maneuverable torpedo's with nanite warheads and enough tracking to come back around for seconds.

>>49833917
Supercavitation works because of an airbubble the torpedo creates. Changing direction collapses the airbubble.

>>49833917
Maybe I'll do that. How clearly drawn is the manga? There have been some I've gone to read and given up because the art was so cluttered it was hard to tell what was going on.

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>>49833967
Look man, it's an anime about hyper advanced AI's playing around with warship bodies and lasers.

Honestly not even sure if they use the word "supercavitating" in the manga at all, just that the torpedo's go faster than the sub that started the discussion, which can go 80+knots.

So, to assuage you it's a "Space magic" torpedo powered by who the fuck knows.

>>49834002
It's not bad. There's a few busy pages but overall pretty clear. Though it's been a bit since I read it.

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>>49833917

>>49834073
...I see. I guess I have to withdraw all technological objections. You say a key plot point is the mystery of why they look like WW2 ships?

>>49834121
Yes. Plus, the anime and manga both start around the year 2030 or so.

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>>49834073

>>49834187
Sauce?

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>>49834200
Really the only thing I can tell you is it is a full fledged animu. I never watched it, I just think the clip is cute.

Also I have no idea why it was in my Arpeggio folder.

>>49834200
Something x Inu SS

>>49834233
>Haruna only wore a lacy bra and pantsu under her coat
Why is Haruna such a slut?

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>>49834343
Hey, Haru Haru is a good girl who literally didn't know better.

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>>49834343
She was hoping.

>>49818308
>And a rules question, what was the general minimum range engagement in WW1 and WW2 for botes?
Depends on the class. For battleships, 5-8000 yards would be considered knife-fighting range though.

>>49833861
Ah yes, but stacking the turrets raises metacentric height, and puts far more weight in one section of the hull. Those were big technological issues they had to solve before they went to superfiring configs.

Nothing is ever simple in naval architecture.

>>49833329
Pro-tip: The Type XXI was faster submerged than on the surface.

>>49834517
But would be considered long-range by the standards of the 1890's through to the Russo-Japanese War.

>>49836245
A blistering 17 knots submerged!

>>49836245
The sub in question is not a Type-XXI, you mongoloid.

>>49835167
Wing turrets also cause structural problems tho.

>>49836563
To be fair when adopting new design direction that hasn't been tried before there is always going to be couple years filled with rather questionable designs.

>>49836492
No shit, it appeared that the comment I was replying to meant impossible in general.

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>>49835167
What I heard was the biggest problem was that people were afraid the back-blast would kill or injure the people in the lower turret.

Apparently when the french tried it, it killed some of the sheep they put in the lower turret.

>>49836245
>>49837134

Type-XXI did ten knots on the surface and only five knots while submerged.

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I'm enjoying the hell out of Cryptonomicon right now, which has some excellent and amusing descriptions of World War II in it.

For example, though it's mostly relevant only for that clipped sentence at the bottom...

Though it would appear the Maps had some sort of black magic available in WW2, as I found that both the I-201 and Ha-201 had marginally better submerged speeds than surface speeds.

>>49837193
>Oh_snap_flowchart.jpg

>>49837169
>Citations needed.
>Cleaner Hull
>More powerful electric motors

You realize that's worse than Type VII's and IX's right?

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>>49837261
>>49837193

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>>49837397

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>>49837340

>>49837422
And then I have two pages from Yamamto's perspective, but while I quite like them, they're not quite as fantastically snappy as that first bit bout about the Imperial Japanese """Army"""

>>49837354
So it's safe to assume any percieved arrogance on the hand of the IJN in WWII comes from their previous victory against the ruskies?

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>>49837455

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>>49837458
I think they really had let themselves go in the intervening forty years or so, honestly.

Ideologically hobbled. Kinda happened tot he Italians and Germans too, desu.

The first half of this page tries to give a feel for it. Japanese soldier who just saw his escorts get nailed and is about to see... well.

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>>49837501
And then two pages from Yamamto.
We went to explicit effort to nail him specifically. which is what this chapter ends in.

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>>49837537
And now I need to sleep. I hope you enjoyed these as much as I did, /tg/. I highly recommend Cryptonomicon. I didn't even post Ronald Reagan interviewing the marine.

>>49837562
Wasn't Yamomoto responsible for starting the war before Japan was ready though?

>>49837610
He knew Japan would never be ready, he just hoped that his plan would work compared to HQ's other plan which would get them whacked to death over several years

>>49837537
>IJA wanting to conquer South America, Alaska and North America
This is bullshit of the highest degree, the Army fought against virtually every operation that could divert troops from China.

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>>49837354
>In the night, thick fog blanketed the straits, giving the Russians an advantage. At 02:45 Japan Standard Time (JST), the Japanese auxiliary cruiser Shinano Maru observed three lights on what appeared to be a vessel on the distant horizon and closed to investigate. These lights were from the Russian hospital ship Orel, which in compliance with the rules of war, had continued to burn them.[22] At 04:30, Shinano Maru approached the vessel, noting that she carried no guns and appeared to be an auxiliary. The Orel mistook the Shinano Maru for another Russian vessel and did not attempt to notify the fleet. Instead, she signaled to inform the Japanese ship that there were other Russian vessels nearby.

>>49819054
what the fuck is this
why is it so big

>>49819054
Holy shit that's an actual sketch by Fisher himself.

>http://alltheworldsbattlecruisers.yuku.com/reply/9792#.WAWruDv56Hs

>>49820365
Go home japan, your drunk.

>>49838145
To be fair, it was a terrible design. It couldn't fire those guns until at least three minutes after surfacing and an emergency dive took two minutes to submerge her.

>>49837835
It is just Jackie being Jackie.

>>49823247
Better or worse than the USN's submarine torpedoes in the early parts of their war?

contrary to common rumor, buord was not actually run by japanese spies

>>49839038
It wasn't just sub torpedoes. It was also a common lament amongst US destroyer crews.

>>49839193
the subs were significantly worse-off though.

at least they had ice cream.

>>49839391
but ice cream doesn't solve the hell known as the interior of submarines.

speaking of, I just remembered at the end of the war murrican subs engaged japanese destroyers of all things. not because they were threatened, but because they ran out of stuff to sink, so they shot them with deck mounted cannons. which was(and still is) hilarious to me.
iirc it was done with a submarine that was called 'gato class'?

>>49839489
Well, deck guns were a pretty common way of sinking things, and they really did sink basically everything in the water once they unfucked the torpedo situation, and unfucked the next torpedo situation, and unfucked all the other issues with the fucking things.

I don't know why they'd get in a surface fight with a destroyer, but maybe they just got bored?

>>49839499
actually I read that with the war ending with it heavily favoring the murricans, and with nothing left to shoot, along with news of other submarines sinking japanese destroyers with deck guns, all these factors made ships without destroyer kills compel them to do so. in which I think is incredibly risky and dumb thing to do, but they must have been really thirsty for recognition or something.
and risky it was, since even subs with multiple destroyer killed with deck guns died while doing it again.

>>49839499
At least partly the blame for them running out of targets can be placed on Army's Operation Starvation.
>started less than 6 months before war's end
>end up sinking more jap tonnage than all other sources combined

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>90% of boat games ignore uk in the favour of japs and yanks

Is getting boats like HMS Renown or HMS Eagle too much to ask for? It is not like the RN ruled the waves for the first couple decades of 20th century or anything.

>>49838089
Good to know that even top admirals had my shitty doodling skills

>>49840112
When it came to designing boats Fisher was basically a six years old.

>>49839765
Royal Navy is getting added to WoWS. But it's not like the Brits did very much at sea in WW2. You've got, what, engaging Bismark, Tirpitz, and then being totally fucking useless in the Pacific?

>>49840234
>What is the Mediterranean, Battle of the Atlantic, etc.

As for being 'useless' in the Pacific, until Midway, the US record wasn't much better. Even then, there were only a few actual major battles fought by the US Navy in the Pacific as the Kriegsmarine and Italian fleets were being bottled up by the Royal Navy.

>>49841495
To be fair yanks entire war plan for the Pacific was "let japs run free for a year, then zerg rush them with all the boats that our industries will shit out".

>>49841514
wherent the flechers or some other DDs prettymuch a bathtub with a gun? i remember reading about some yank DD cracking under bad weather from cuting so many corners in construction

>>49841582
Bathtub with some guns, torpedoes and engines glued on is pretty much the definition of WW2 destroyer.

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>>49837723
Some exaggeration, maybe, but not as much as you seem to think.

>>49837610
I seriously doubt it. As the book implies, the Japanese Army had much more sway and was very ideologically hidebound. Further, Japan was never going to be ready to go toe to toe with half the industrial capacity in the world. (USA USA USA)

I think Yamamoto is the one to whom the "if we invaded America, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass" quote came from.
Practically, being in the Navy requires some kind of training and education beyond having a pulse and being able to point your bayonet at the Chinese peasants; their navy was both more competent and more worldly than the Army.

As implied in the photod pages, and int he movie Tora, Tora, Tora!, the Japanese actually were trying to sync their declaration of war and their attack on Pearl Harbor, but the diplomats in DC were slow to get it decrypted and presented.

Yamamoto was given an impossible task and while most westerners would think "You should resign, or kick and scream, or do whatever you possibly can to fight back if you know these orders are so patently impossible and suicidal for your nation", that wasn't the Japanese mindset.

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>>49839765
Didn't we help set up the IJN in the bloody first place, fucking Nips and Yanks.

>>49839765
>It is not like the RN ruled the waves for the first couple decades of 20th century or anything.
You're right, it isn't. :^)

>>49841743
We're talking about same IJN here that was too fucking proud to think that the enemy would not follow their carefully laid about plans down to the t and couldn't figure out that their codes were vulnerable (something that the IJA code breakers figured out pretty early in the war), so I really wouldn't put too much faith in the claims that IJN was that much better than IJA.

>>49841850
They were very Japanese, but they were at least good at what they did, albeit still crippled by the whole ideological handicap.

Think of it more as "The IJA was just THAT BAD."

Unsurprisingly, a book called Cryptonomicon does in fact deal with the codebreaking and the keeping thereof. There's one scene where Alan Turing is talking to our American cryptologist and bemoaning how grossly irresponsible they're being with their own intelligence; they have a bunch of handlers with almost the appropriate clearance level down in Africa who are responsible for feeding Montgomery and Patton useful bits of info that are deemed safe.

The handlers got told about a german air raid intelligence had identified would be going out at lunch time and had shown up to the mess hall with their helmets. When the camp started getting strafed in the middle of lunch, they were the only ones there with helmets. People started wanting to know why.

Likewise, having cracked the first enigma, they basically start sinking every convoy from Naples to Libya. That's, uh... pretty indicative. OF course, they at least make a token of sending out a searchplane to be spotted by each convoy first, so there's at least an excuse for how they know when and where each convoy is, but then they go and sink one in total fog.

>>49833866
The anime is a hot garbage fire, but the manga is great (some really good technical art, too).

>>49842193
Hey, the anime has nice action scenes.

>>49841756
Even designed and built the sample unit for their most useful capital ship class of the war.

>>49842223
They're not worth suffering the awful plotting, pacing, and CG.

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>wehraboo

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Since we're on /tg/, you people might be informed: Is there any nautical rpg that isn't about the age of sail? I'd want to play seafaring in the modern era, but there is few systems that have dedicated mechanics for that.

>>49837165
Turn of the century french ships are surprisingly beautiful despite their overweight look.

A blog with a ton of recolorized pics of old warship :
http://blog.livedoor.jp/irootoko_jr/archives/cat_20857.html

>>49823521
Others had spoken of superfiring turrets, but the fear was that the blast from the upper turret would damage the lower, and it wasn't until the USN did it that it was proven it was perfectly fine.

>>49818308
>Just wondering why no one ever drew any botes
Most drawfags just concentrate on headshots of pretty girls.

>>49819055
>>49819252
Board policeman please leave /tg/ and never come back.

>>49843077
What shame that the yanks didn't manage to keep that a secret, that way there would had been more wing turret cripples.

>>49842710
Ah, French pre-dreads, just as ugly as they're ineffective.

>>49843144
I like these threads for the naval talk, but you bote fags are scum.

>>49841582
Fletchers were the pinnacle of the design. The pre-war and some destroyers ordered before the war but actually produced during the war were of questionable quality.

>>49843808
First time poasting in a bote thread. I just don't like board policemen.

>>49837449
>wikipedia

Meanwhile in the actual post-war evaluation of the model:

Surface speed - max.
15.6 kn.
Submerged speed - 1 hr. rate
17-18 kn.

>>49842415
That's a big boat.

>>49843941
How does it go faster submerged?

>>49844297
>How does it go faster submerged?
Slices through water like superior japanese katana :^)

>>49843077
You still didn't fire directly over the other one though, because the blast came in through the spotting holes, and damaged the tturret roof.

>>49843939
Welcome to BOTES!

What is your favourite bote?

>>49840154
A six year old who invented Destroyers, battlecruisers, and Dreadnoughts.

>Draw thread
>Halfway to autosage
>only 55 images
>The only actual drawing is Fisher's 100 year old scriblings.

Where is the actual drawfagorty? Am I going to have to break out a pencil and start doodling, because I bet I can at least do as good as the First Sea Lord.

>>49845838
American South Carolina-class probably had a bigger role in shaping the battleship development during the first decades of the 20th century than HMS Dreadnought did.

>>49845419
>What is your favourite bote?
Inner tube.

>>49845973
If you want drawings you probably should either beg in a draw thread populated by drawfags or use those autism bucks to commission some.

>>49843941
>"Your cited numbers are bullshit"
>"My uncited numbers are correct"

>>49846086

There's no source you can cite which I will accept as accurate, therefore as far as the argument is concerned, both numbers are actually equally uncited. Since I put forth my numbers, mine are correct.

QED.

>>49846086
The cited data is the cruise data as in maximum range anyways.

Here's mine:

Board I&S ltr to CNO S8 Serial 472P45 of 3 Apr 1946:
Submarine U-2513 (ex-German) Standardization, Fuel Economy and Tactical Trials; Report of.

The results can also be found in Report 2G-21, Former German Submarine Type XXI: Design, Models And Plans, Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, Portsmouth, NH. July, 1946.

>Primary sources cabrone.

>>49844297
Many submarines have faster submerged speeds. Practically all modern submarines have much, much faster submerged speeds than surface speeds due to their hydrodynamics.

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>>49846372
>primary sources on german submarines
>in english

They probably translated kilometers into miles and liters into gallons without adjusting the numbers.

>>49846879
It is well known that the US and Britain did extensive sea trials on recovered german equipment. I'd believe his primary source over anything else.

>>49846844
To specify, breaking the surface of the water means the ship is subject to additional drag caused by the surface tension of the water.

>>49846980
And early uboats were designed like a ship,since they spent more time on the surface then submerged.

With the type 21, that wasn't required, so they built the boat to have good subsurface speed and handling, instead of good surface handling. On the surface the type 21 rolls and pitches like a bastard.

>>49837193
>>49837397
>>49837422

Cryptonomicon is one of Stephenson's best efforts.

>>49847011
You can pretty easily see how the submarines evolved from surface ship that can move underwater to truly underwater focused crafts if you look up how the USN subs evolved during 40s and 50s.

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>>49845973

i could post some of my favorite ships in rule the waves if that appeases you

>>49847260
Not enough pagodas/10

>>49841582

That 'bad weather' was a Typhoon, mate. Those things can sink modern vessels.

>>49847506
Halsey seem to have hated tin can sailors.
>leyte gulf fuck up
>obsession with sailing into typhoons

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>>49847293
i mostly fail when i try to make them

>>49847555
BIGGER

>>49846879
>lrn2history

Primary source is any of a direct witness. Therefore the testing and evaluation of a Type XXI by whothefuckever would be a primary source as long as the results were recorded.

Secondary source would be someone writing a book about Type XXI subs and using these sources and German ones, and whatever and you quoting their book.

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>>49846932
>>49847732
>irrational people can't take a joke

I sure hope you don't attack another bunch of random countries tomorrow.

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>>49847657
There was a point we really should have stopped at.

>>49847866
B I G G E R
I
G
G
E
R

>>49847814
>pissed that they are a dumbass

Cool story bro.

>>49847914
second best pagoda

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>>49847911

>>49847866
>Glorious Japanese flagship setting sail without the Tokyo Tower

NAY.

NAY.

NO WAI.

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>>49847959

>>49847959
>2battleships1pagoda
YESH

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>>49848016

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>>49848029

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>>49848047

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>>49848059

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>>49848075

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>>49847911
>>49847914
>>49847982
ITS SPREADING

>>49848137
NOT ENOUGH

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>>49848157
somewhere, a ship designer is crying.

>>49848466
I'm just imagining WWII Japanese admirals getting huge erections looking at these.

>>49847260
Well, you've convinced me to drop 30 bux on this game now.

>>49848466
THICCER

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>>49848665
its worth it, not as autistic as it first looks, designing is a breeze and battles are hectic.

on a more real note, my favorite ship i've ever used. the graz and lissa were originally ordered from german yards with 12 12in guns in triple turrets. however, top men in france sent plans for a +0 15in gun the same month they were delivered, and off to the austrian yards they went to get superior double 15 mounts in place of the 12s and improved secondaries and directors. they served in 5 wars over the course of their 20 year service and had by far the best record of any ships in my navy

>>49848740
look like a ship from the naval ops games
the only action arcade games with cap ships i know

the ships you can make and fight are bullshit, and fun

>>49848771
what game is btw

>>49848771
I'm actually hoping for autism.

Right now i'm waiting for them to send the fucking serial number. FFFfffsss. Why is this not instant? Am I literally waiting for a human to send it to me?

>>49846844
The opposite tends to good true for WW2 subs and I assume for WW1 subs as well.

>>49848821
Rule the Waves, ww1 naval warfare sim. http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/ruwaddo.html

>>49848823
oh its autistic, just not mindbogglingly so. for me they sent the number within an hour, but yeah its really pretty bad

>>49848723
I feel the warp overtaking me

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>>49848901
fugg forgot pic

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>>49818308
There you go buddy, two battleships slugging it out.

>>49848926
Is this an editor or something? Can you actually build this ship in game?

>>49848943
>typical pre-dreadnaught naval battle.

>>49848926
>USS Twin Towers
>Sadly lost in monumental sneak attack by foreign pilots.
>Starts bloody war

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>>49848946
yeah, the pagodas and superstructure are just there to look cool. but the way it works is you decide on tonnage then allocate your weight to armour/guns/speed/etc

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Finally got my serial number. Which country should I play as?

>>49849068
germany is a lot of fun to start, or if you want hard mode austria/italy.

>>49849078
I was thinking that England would be the logical choice for easy mode. Other than that however, Japan and Merica seem fun as well.

>>49849111
england is a pain because they have a ton of colonies to protect, their navy has to be long range and patrol non stop. germany basically only has the northern europe area and and a couple colonies that can be ignored if you want so its a bit easier to start with. japan is hard mode, but you have an advantage in that no other superpower has much presence in their home port. merica's not bad but they have no presence in northern europe or the med so its hard to force decive battles and its a lot of colony patrolling.

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Still not sure if I want to start as Japan, but what do these options do?

>>49849246
fleet size is basically your funding.

historical resources gives you the funding the nation actually had, dont pick this unless you enjoy losing to america and england.

manual build lets you design the ships you start the game with instead of using the historical types the nation actually had

research rate modifies the rate at which you and your enemies discover tech, if you want a game to last longer, make it lower.

varied tech switches the discovery rate of techs around randomly, maybe design triple turrets 1 month after the game starts, maybe never

>>49848943
>3% overall hit rate
>shells either do nothing or the entire ship just fucking explodes

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Okay, how do I start building Botes. So many options.

>>49849425
so much, might have been better to start with legacy ships but oh well trial by fire. you'll need minesweepers, dds, cls, cas, and bs. bb and bc are not available at start. you'll want at least 20 minesweepers, make them light and give them a gun or two. you need them to do patrols during wars, dont neglect them.

you also need dd, dds cant have armour so ignore that part. they can be 500tons at start, give them a gun or two and a torpedo or two. you can decide to make their engines set to speed priority and make them short range and cramped to save some weight, but all are detrimental. i sometimes do this and use them as coastal patrol ships after the first war.

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I decided to start over with the pre-made fleet, but I didn't notice any minesweapers so I'm making one now.

Is this good? I'm mostly clicking around and seeing what the autobuild and check buttons tell me. (I wanted to put six inch guns on a 200 ton minesweaper, but it wouldn't let me)

>>49849810
thats exactly how my minesweepers look every game i play. sometimes i make ones for colonial duty by making them 1,500 tons with a pair of 5in guns and checking the colonial duty box. makes a good cheap gunboat so you dont have to waste fighting ships and they sometimes clear fields too.

>>49849844
I can't afford 20, the max it will let me build is 12, so I assume that's all the money I have. what do?

>>49849869
12 is the max you can order at once, if you place the order for 12, then open another build menu and order 8 you can do it. these are absurdly cheap but if you have no money at all just build them later, you shouldnt go to war for a few months at least.

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>>49849886
Here's my colonial minesweaper. I decided to go with 4 inch guns because I didn't feel like making it huge. This should be enough firepower to intimidate the natives.

What about other ship types? Should I just stick with the defaults, or is there any way I can improve upon them?

>>49850171
theres always ways to improve. i'd say modify off the standard ones as you see fit. one thing i like is to make light cruisers with at least long range and really fast and use them to raid, early game this is the best way to win wars and i convert them to colonial duty when they go out of date. also japan has junk tech and docks at the start of the game. try to maintain relations with a big power (UK, US, GER) and order big ships from their yards untill yours catch up.

>>49850237
Well I just realized the MaruMaru is the only colonial worthy class, so I guess I should make some sort of cruiser or battleship capable of projecting force.

How would I go about colonizing southeast asia? I noticed there appears to be some unclaimed territories there. Alternately, how would I go about bullying Russia?

>>49850293
i usually make ms 1500ton colonials or cl colonials, if you right click and pick colonial service they do this automatically.

colonize events are random and your effectiveness is based on your current forces in the area i think. events that are owned you need to get during wars. stationing forces in that zone and neutralizing enemies in the zone increases the odds of an invasion. you can earn them after winning a war as well if you do well enough, can also demand ships from their navy too sometimes.

to bully russia, spy on them as much as possible and pick events that antagonize them. its somewhat random though.

>>49848926
How do you get those pictures?

>>49850839
i'm not a clever screenshotter, just shift+prt scr and cut out the bits i wanted in paint.

>>49850867
oh, you mean the screen itself. right click on the ship you want, change ship picture, generate picture

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Alright, the Maru Maru class colonial minesweaper, the ship so lucky we had to name it twice.

Now we just need some cruisers for it to escort, and we can start rap- PROTECTING southeast Asia from western imperialism.

>>49851097
thats the spirit, protect the shit out of the future japanese colonies

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Reminds me of that "Freudian Nightmare" star destroyer copy-pasta.

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Developing a colonial cruiser, and I managed to annex north Korea. Score!

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Also apparently Mata Hari was really working for the Japanese as a double agent the whole time. Scandalous.