MTG LEGACY GENERAL

Common Legacy - Decks You Should Prepare to Face
>Miracles
>Delver variants (Grixis, Izzet, BUG, RUG)
>ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)
>Death and Taxes
>Eldrazi Stompy
>Shardless BUG
>Lands

Uncommon Legacy - Decks You Should Know About
>LED Dredge
>Reanimator
>Infect
>Stoneblade
>Burn
>TES (The Epic Storm)
>Elves
>Painter
>Maverick
>4-Color Loam
>Nic Fit
>Sneak n Show

Rare Legacy - Decks You May See On Occasion
>Enchantress
>MUD
>Goblins
>Merfolk
>High Tide
>Aluren
>Food Chain
>12 Post
>Belcher
>Pox Control
>Blood Moon Stompy variants
>Tezzerator
>Sneak n Breach
>Stax (White or Black)
>Deadguy Ale
>Landstill
>Affinity

Mythic Legacy - Decks You'll See Once a Year
>Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils (DDFT)
>Cheerios
>Nourshing Lich
>Non-Eldrazi Moon-less Stompy variants
>Spanish Inquisition
>Ux Omnitell
>Parfait
>The Cure (Kavu Predator + False Cure)

>first for ban counterbalance
Banlist wants/predictions (if any)?

>>49815642
I'd be fine with a counterbalance ban. As long as they don't ban top.

>>49815688
Top is fine, yeah. I just dont agree with miracles' high meta share. (Im also a little salty)

I found a Channel in my box of old cards. It's banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage. Is it worth anything?

>>49815642
I don't think Counterbalance really needs a ban, though I'd really like to see DRS get binned. I'm pretty biased though, I feel like Tezz is favored vs Miracles

>>49815642
It's a "i don't know how to play against miracles" episode again?

>>49815785
No, i just really hate when blue gets to have a deck that jacks off forever and gets and instant speed WoG

>>49815785
My miracles matchup is solidly 60/40. I feel confident vs miracles. Doesn't mean counterbalance isn't a bitch card for botch boys.

>>49815828
Then play something that hates on that like DnT

>>49815642
Ban top.

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>European Xmage servers have been shitting their pants for over a month
I swear I will hurt someone soon

>>49815828
>lands player hates Miracles
lol

>>49815936
They've been really good this past week or so, up until today.

>>49815565
before, when I was preparing to go to large events, my friends and I would use that metadeck website to proxy ~10 decks at once and jam games for 8 hours a day at the lgs. unfortunately I moved recently, now I don't really have anyone to test with.

>>49815954
XMage/Cuckatrice

>>49815642
I'd like to see terminus banned from that deck if anything.

>>49815642
Not gonna Lie I think it is finally time to ban brainstorm.

>>49816029
Brainstorm is the only reason I play Legacy m8, don't. Just... don't.

>>49815642
Taking about bans is stupid. They should just unban, no ban. If we began to ask bans we will degenerate in modern general

>>49816124
Let's make Ashnod's Coupon legal.

>>49816170
Neato

>>49816098
they're never going to. they would have done it by now plus it's the reason a lot of people (including me) play the format. plus it's not doing anything inherently broken.

>>49815642

UNBAN BALANCE

MAKE WHITE GREAT AGAIN

But for real I love big dumb "symmetrical" effects (it's why I play Pox), and Balance would be fun to play.

>>49816124
Like what, DTT, Cruise, Goblin Recruiter? Bitch please.
>>49815688
This or Terminus.

Are xmage US servers shitting the bed for anyone else?

>>49817668
Dtt, survival, balance.
All who cry for counterbalance ban is a cuck who should go play standard safespace

>>49817736
How would you justify UU: Tutor for 2 cards given that every deck that'd run it is already very well positioned?

>>49815763
>Top is fine, yeah. I just dont agree with miracles' high meta share. (Im also a little salty)

>going to a new store with Grixis Delver
>Almost 1/3rd of the store plays Miracles
>now maindeck 2 Abrupt Decay

>>49815779
>though I'd really like to see DRS get binned.

I will fite u irl

Nothing in miracles needs a ban, go away and stahp. Miracles will kill itself once enough people get tired of the deck and start playing 12 post or infect or lands or start main decking sideboard cards. Legacy needs no bans as of yet, nothing is oppressive and it's the format that people get to play with their powerful cards and sometimes boring interactions, like countertop.

>>49817770
Not gonna lie, I miss DTT and had fun with it and was fairly salty when it was banned. In hindsight it's for the best, blue was way to good back then

>>49815642
There is no reason for earthcraft to still be on the banlist. I also think mind twist, mind's desire, frantic search, and maybe mystical tutor would be relatively safe unbans that might actually make a difference.

>>49816907
As fun as balance seems, that card can't come off, especially if Dingus Egg is legal. Neither can DTT or Cruise.

If you ask me, the safest picks are Goblin Recruiter and Mind Twist. Earthcraft is also pretty safe. After that, Survival and Bargain are pretty safe. I would almost be OK with Necro.

What's everyone's list of the cards that can't come off? I'd definitely say the Moxen, Lotus, Mana Vault and Crypt, Balance, Wheel, Twister, Jar, Library, Bazaar, Workshop, DT, Vamp, Seal, Recall, Time Walk, Academy, Strip Mine, Oath, Cruise and DTT.

>>49818049
found the high tide player
>>49818097
not sure about Bargain/Necro, but the rest are fine

I'm guessing you forgot to add Sol Ring to the "absolutely stay banned" list? I'd also put Time Vault on there

>>49818097
They would never unban goblin recruiter. Even the goblin players hated that card.

>>49818097
Recruiter can't be unbanned for logistics reasons.

>>49818049
The argument for Twist is that it does nothing. The argument against is that it probably does nothing, but if it does something then it's not a great experience for the person on the receiving end. It's probably a safe unban, though.

I agree on Earthcraft.

Desire is probably too slow to be amazing. Search is probably too good in Storm decks, though. Maybe one of two could come off.

Mystical is way too strong with Miracles in the format. It might be okay if there were a Top, Terminus, or CB ban. Not sure that's worth it, though.

>>49818141
I forgot about Sol Ring. Bargain doesn't seem nuts in a world with Griselbrand. Necro is nuts, but it's getting worse with time

>>49818302
Desire is just too insane to be safe. Mystical used to be ok, and maybe could come off some day, but it isn't safe right now.

Frantic Search might bring High Tide back too much, but it could be OK

>>49818302
>logistics reasons.
Which are ?

>>49818318
I guess so, I've seen people pushing for a Griselbrand ban so I'm not sure if adding more similar effects that are a lot more easier to control is a good thing, would make storm decks even more stupid.

Tinker is also another card that should never be unbanned in Legacy

>>49818398
Boring

>>49818391
Having to stack your entire deck in the perfect order every time. It got to the point where people would stack 10-15 cards and then just say fuck it.

>>49818398
Tinker definitely can't come off, unless they ban all the stupid robots for no reAson

>>49818445
Does it take part longer than Topping every turn? Or Doomsday? I think it's as much a logistical problem as Dragon

>>49818500
People had to plan 25 turns ahead, so yes, it took longer than spinning a top 8 times. Doomsday is only 5 cards.

>>49815565
I goldfish a lot. I also have almost 2 years experience with my secondary deck (Burn) so. I honestly don't practice a lot.

>>49818559
While you CAN do that, that's generally not the optimal way to play Recruiter. You basically build Ringleader piles, so you just need to throw together 4 card piles to ringleader into. You don't necessarily want to stack your whole deck.

>>49818559
>>49818500
not to mention nearly all of the time when you doomsday you know what cards you're looking for. I've never had someone call slow play on me while I'm trying to resolve doomsday.

ban chalice

dumb ass card with its dumb ass cointosses

>>49818869
While I'd probably be pleased to see that happen, I don't think it should since it would kill a whole style of deck. I really think legacy is totally fine and barring a couple harmless unbans there should be no changes.

>>49818869
Chalice is the wall that keeps combo decks away from civilization

Don't ban anything. Just stop printing combo-hosers. There's a reason I don't play Modern.

>>49816029
I agree I think it is finally time for brainstorm to get the axe

>>49816170
I want R&D's Secret lair to be legal with that.

>>49821416
But brainstorm IS legacy. The format would be WAY too different to still be "legacy", you literally take out such a major amount of consistency in a majority of the format and let non-brainstorm decks run free. That's not a meta I'd be okay with, and I know majority of players don't want that either

If that was sarcasm forgive me for failing to see it

So I've been think of adding a lilianna of the veil to my sideboard, but in order to have a chance of casting her against decks with blood moon I should probably add in another basic swamp over a dual right? Or is she really bad against moon decks to not even bother with it? And if I do add her in should I get a 4th snapcaster in the board as well to get some more functionality with her + ability?

So basically
1. Is it worth it
2. Should I add another basic swamp in (would go up to 2)
3.is she bad against decks with Blood moon.

>>49823244
What matchups is she in for? Delver? The Mirror? She's definitely awful against most moon decks

>>49823739
I'm guessing Delver, the mirror, DnT and I'll try her out against some other things to see what she's good against

>>49823786
How many black sources are you running? That's never going to hit the stack against either of those decks if you're only on 2. It's good against Delver, but that's already pretty good. Might be worth trying as a mirror breaker though

>>49823817
Right now I've got 3 black sources, 2 underground sea and 1 swamp I'm willing to drop an island or maybe a Plains for another swamp or Underground sea or even a scrubland

>>49823786
Liliana seems vulnerable in the mirror, have you considered Exquisite Firecraft ?

>>49820185
Sneak variants, Dredge, Belcher & storm (after sideboarding) don't give two shits about Chalice, it's just unfun and hurts blue midrange more than anything.

>>49823998
This doesn't seen right. Even if chalice is more like a speed bump for these decks, if that speed bump buys you time to play a trinisphere or a thought knot seer or a blood moon, it did its job. "Blue midrange decks" should be just as prepared to fight chalice as combo decks. Force of will decks can counter a turn 1 chalice on the play. I don't see how it's worse for blue decks.

>>49821416
Excuse me, but you seem to forget that you're not me. If I have to tripfag now I will.

>>49825293
>>49822096
>>49821416
And furthermore, why would you ever ban Brainstorm? Legacy is the only format where you can play a full playset of it. It's a skill-intensive format defining card. It doesn't break any portion of the format, it doesn't enable horseshit combos like Blazing Shoal in Modern, and it's an essential part of what makes Legacy interesting.

So fuck you for trying to speak for me, and double fuck you for being a faggot.

>>49825293
Uh oh. The reptilians are invading and stealing our skin.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lich-fit/

>>49817970
>Miracles will kill itself once enough people get tired of the deck
Miracles has been one of the top legacy decks for what, 2-3 years? I don't see it going away anytime soon, especially now that it has Mentor and can win fast.

>>49825338
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lich-fit/
You can't keep doing this
but I'll test it on cockatrice later

>>49825652
I'm pretty sure I made it worse

>>49825680
Theres only 4 basics

>>49825719
Can't fit many more in a deck with 16 lands. I think it's fine in a combo deck

>>49825338
>jamming Explorer into an already fragile deck
>no creature to ramp into anyways
YOU CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS

>>49825759
Maybe this is just a bad idea

>>49826121
See
>>49825680

>>49825338
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lich-fit/
The madman. lets see Miracles-Fit next

>>49826164
That might be crossing a line. 5c miracles with veteran explorer/therapy package. Cdo you even play terminus if you're trying to win with fatties? Probably want to max out on entreat the angels since you'd have a ton of mana you can just cheese fast win with 6 angel tokens.

>>49826533
it would be 4c no red. you could use helix pinnacle as a win con since you're splashing green. I guess you also get abrupt decay if that's worth playing? seems bad, but I think that was be the point.

>>49826551
Actually that's a good point, no need for red. 4c is more manageable. You could probably build it 2 ways, as nic fit feat. Countertop, or miracles feat. Drs/therapy/vet

>>49826657
nic fit featuring countertop seems bad since all your stuff would have high mana costs so I think miracles with therapy and vet explorer is the way to go.

>>49826674
Killing with a DRS from behind countertop lock sounds like it could be good

>>49824940
Something like non-BUG Delver variants and to some extent fair non-blue decks with lots of 1drops and swords for removal do absolutely nothing with an unanswered Chalice for 1 in play, whereas Sneak and Belcher can just laugh it off and go off and Storm can naturally draw into enough mana and a business even without cantrips, TES can burning wish for answer or just make landdrops and run its 0 costers to chalice and cast ETW.

Can both types of IF termies take storm shields? Or just tartatos

>>49826820
What?

>>49826820
You seem to be lost, friend. Don't worry, this is a nice place to be lost in, would you like a trip?

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>>49815565
Did people just suddenly stop playing pic related?
This with U "return target creature to your hand" and 1U "counter target spell" cards was the best

I've decided to stray from the path a bit and play some other decks, and have settled on Grixis Delver. Anyone got some spicy tech? I found a list with 1 Bonfire of the Damned, which seems sweet with Brainstorm to set it up.

>>49827180
All I've got in my (old) list is True-Name, Forked Bolt, and Pyroblast. Probably not very helpful.

You could always sell Grixis Delver and build Exarch Stompy.

>>49825338
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lich-fit/
>see this deck everyday
>still no Lich's Tomb
>still no way to actually win the game

why you do dis

>>49827336
>still no lich's tomb
>still no way to actually win the game
What? It kills with sickening dreams and lich's tomb is hotter garbage than the rest of the deck.

>>49827336
>A deck with Deathrite Shaman
>A deck without a wincon
Pick one.

>>49827502
Deathrite Shaman is actually the win condition? You're joking right?

>>49826533
I want to play that

>>49827453
I fail to see how Lich's Tomb is worse than Lich if you already have 4 Nefarious Lich.

>>49827775

Lich's Tomb doesn't draw cards for gaining life, that's the problem. Lich and Nefarious Lich do exactly the same job, so one just acts as copies of 5-8 for the other.

>>49827180
Fire Covenant and Stifle are mine

Is Bomberman an actually competitive viable archetype for legacy?

>>49828521
It's a fragile creature combo deck, it's pretty bad without good fast mana

>>49828443
>Fire Covenant
that's almost too spicy, a Toxic Deluge kind of effect that's targeted. Really nice.

>>49815565
Please never change Legacy General.

I just stopped by the standard and modern generals and saw nothing but the worst of people. You faggots are all right. Don't go to standard general tomorrow.

>>49827180
Bonfire is pretty sweet, I like that a lot.

In terms of "spicy tech" I've been considering Kolaghan's Command as a 1-of to fight through Chalice, as well as ways to kill off Batterskull and Aether vial. It would replace the 1 Forked Bolt in the main.

Winter Orb is sweet sideboard stuff btw, not spicy anymore but still so unexpected.

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>>49829971
Y-You too

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>>49825338
>what's this foul stench coming from the basement, son? Didn't I tell you? No shitbrewing in my house!

>>49825338
Well, it's better than 4-drops.deck, or as I like to call it after rigorous testing, "Bad Leylines"

Then again, my restriction gives me an excuse.

>>49830599
To be fair, when I initially joked about the 4-drops deck I did say "curve starts at 4", not "starts and ends at 4"

>>49830799
Then maybe I'll try something different in the morning, but I can't imagine what.

>>49829971
>Don't go to standard general tomorrow.
Anon don't do this

They're just underageb&, they don't know any better

>>49831373
I will make them learn

>>49830857
12post

>>49831474
I was trying not to say it, but yeah, that's probably what it would end up as.

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>>49827180

I've used (and somehow won) with Sands of Delerium in 12-Post.

>>49829971
Modern general is the /v/ of format generals honestly.

Can someone with parfait experience rate my list? My meta is a lot of combo with delver and muricles.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-10-16-parfait/

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...Bump?

>>49829160
I miss that card being good, but I Elves isn't popular any more. Electrickery is the other card I ran in that slot, but it's probably a lot worse. The K Command is a good idea, more outs to chalice is never a bad thing

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>>49833069

I'd run elves if I had Gaea's Cradles.

>>49832032
Looks slick

I would highly recommend you drop either Rule of Law or Isochron Scepter for a maindeck Runed Halo. Halo just beats ANT in G1 and forces TES or Belcher to go for Warrens, which is slower and can be stopped with Ghostly Prison. In non-combo MUs Halo is a very good non-targeted removal spell (TNN, Mongoose), and it can blunt Jace and Lili a bit. Also, Halo being two mana is critical sometimes, because every combo deck can kill you before you have time to play Sphere or Rule of Law.

Rule of Law is redundant with Trinisphere against most combo decks (Sphere being the better lock), the only one where you really want Rule is Enchantress, but I would rather run a SB Aura of Silence against them.

Isochron Scepter can situationally lock out pretty much any deck, but you have to have a Chant or StP in hand for it to be worthwhile, and even then it takes 4 times as much mana to put StP on Scepter and cast it than just cast the StP from your hand. Sometimes that tempo loss will get you killed, especially if they have removal for the Scepter. I those situations it would be better if the Scepter was a Halo or Wrath or something.

If you're in Wr I think not running Charbelcher is a mistake. It's a one-card wincon and repeatable removal that gets around Iona. If your manabase is all basics it can give you really stupid inevitability by letting you stack your deck.

>>49833504
>tfw you own 4 cradles and you never bothered to assemble elves.

>>49833960
Thanks for the input! I really appreciate it

Bumped again

I will not let the thread DIE

So, question for the thread until I figure out something Magic-related to ask. What's your stereotype toward a deck and it's player? That is, what kind of person do you expect when you hear "Miracles player" or "Infect player"? Are they usually bros, idiots, etc.

>>49836908
The only people I know who play infect are all total bros. They all know The Boss and he is pretty much the reason they all play the deck.

Well dudes I played another 4 rounder at my lgs and went 2-2 again. Playing DDFT as usual. List is here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-16-ddft/

R1 vs Burn (2-0)
G1 I turn 1 Therapied an Eidolon, turn 2 Therapied 3 Price of Progress, go off turn 3, being careful to play around the Fireblast in his hand.
G2 his first 2 turns are Guide, double Swiftspear. Mine are Divining Top, Combo out.

R2 vs BUG Delver (0-2)
Let it be known that this maniac plays 4 Force, 4 Daze, 4 Stifle, and 4 Hymn. Fuck that. G1 I get buried under disruption while some cheap threat kills me. G2 I punt like a demon. I brainstorm, forget to play and crack my fetch, and then get hymned losing my 2nd land, and have my first land wasted, so I am landless and brainstorm locked. I lose because my brain ceased to function.

R3 vs DnT (2-1)
G1 he has to Recruiter for Thalia, which is too slow. He does manage to get a Batterskull hit in, but I hit him with 3 extra drills. G2 he plays out some hatebears including Arbiter and Revoker on LED. I just make land drops. Eventuallty I have the combo in hand so I cast burning wish, he smells massacre and vials in flickerwisp to flicker his lone Plains. I have to pass the turn and die to exact damage as he topdecks some equipment. G3 I have a turn 2 kill and get blown out by a very unexpected Orim's Chant. Fortunately he chanted in response to my Burning Wish, so i don't just lose, and I am able to rebuild in a few turns when he doesn't have much else going on.

R4 vs Reanimator (1-2)
G1 he gets a very fast Griselbrand. I fire off my combo because there's nothing better to do, he draws 14 and Forces my Doomsday. G2 I slip a Doomsday through his counter wall, build an Emrakul pile, and it wins even though I have to pass 2 turns. G3 he t1 Careful Studies binning Iona and Sire of Insanity. I Duress and take his only Reanimate, but he topdecks another and Sire takes it home.

>>49837124
I'm really liking this list. Collective Brutality is dope, and three Decays seems enough against miracles based on testing on MTGO. I'm also starting to think burn isn't such a bad matchup. Certainly not good, but DDFT really isn't any slower than ANT so you can race. I still need more practice playing against Stifle. My meta feels very hostile towards my deck, but I'm sure it will help me get better.

>>49836908
From what I see the best of people are the burn players, while the worst of people are anyone who runs multiple obscure planeswalkers or Green players, actually, fuck Green players
>ACTUALLY think green is the best colour
>Get visibly upset when you counter their boss creature
>scoop phase happens right after I make them discard to empty hand

>>49836908
Dredge players are always the fucking worst.

Conceited little shits that miss triggers and still are able to pull of game one because of lul dread return.

Then they bitch and moan acting all butt hurt when you dared to actually have hate for games two and three, like yeah faggot rest in peace is so unfair compared to what you are doing.

>>49837445
Unfortunately you're completely right. I fucking hate the guts out of my local Dredge players. They're all Manaless players who think they're hot shit and then bitch like a punk when I drop T0 Leyline of the Void post-sideboard. Like, that's the game bro. You chose to play a deck that has a weakness which literally turns your win ratio into 0:100.

>>49837445
You're not me, fuck off I don't mind dredge

>>49837763
I didn't say dredge, the deck is a fine combo deck with reasonable foils existing in the format.

I said dredge players

And I am me you are probably that fuck that was impersonating /dredge/guy from earlier in the thread.

>>49837799
So I guess I have to use a trip now, fuck you to. Thanks for trying to stir shit up in our usually peaceful thread

>>49831932

Modern is the /v/ of formats.

Regarding stereotypical players of different decks:

>>49836986
Right on.
>>49837445
>>49837726
That hasn't been my experience, but then I'm the only person who's played Dredge with any regularity at my LGS. I've encountered a few who fall into that category bigtime. Unfortunately, being a "budget" deck, Dredge seems to attract a lot of people who don't really know what they're doing. Same is true for All Spells. People who hate those decks with a passion also tend to be insufferable. Rage-quitting the format because you didn't bring a $.50 card from 1994 is pretty bush-league.

Once talked to a manaless Dredge guy who genuinely claimed the deck's faster than LED Dredge.

Miracles guys tend to be pretty solid. In it to win it, but then again, so am I(?).

I actually find Delver players to be a bit more annoying as a rule than most other players. Not all of them—many are really solid dudes—but a number of them. It feels like it attracts a crowd of people who think they're playing the Best Deck in the Format, and like they have the right to just walk into the finals of a tournament.

Prison players are often much nicer than their decks are.

Combo players (esp. All Spells, Belcher, Storm) tend to fall into two categories: people who can't imagine why their perfect plan could ever go awry, and people who don't take things seriously enough not to YOLO hard on occasion. I like to think I fall into the latter category, but who knows?

>>49836908
Please note that all of these have the skilled player and total bro exceptions, and most of my recent legacy experience is from XMage.

Miracles players tend to be new guys who were told it was the best deck and then call your deck an unusable pile of shit when you beat them.

Eldrazi players are dicks, but you all knew that.

I only have one-off encounters with Soldier Stompy and manaless dredge players. The dredge player gave me the advice of putting manaless dredge on the play game two so he couldn't discard. The Soldier Stompy guy spent a solid 20 minutes talking about how shit my deck was.

>>49838921
Agreed. I may play an asshole deck, but i dont play it because i myself am an ass, i just like how the deck plays.

>>49837124
>DnT
>I cast burning wish, he smells massacre and vials in flickerwisp to flicker his lone Plains. I have to pass the turn
Why? I don't understand.
Also, when are you going to play Lich?
>>49836908
played burn on sunday against our local miracles player and he was whining all the time about how OP burn was, I didn't even have the Firecrafts

>>49839132
Soldier Stompy has no right calling other decks shit. I'll say that probably 2/3rds of the Miracles players on Cockatrice are godawful. The only truly unbearable opponent I've had was a kid on Pox, but that was more from getting mixed up in the toxic Atlanta scene than anything.

What I read in all these analyses is a correlation/causation issue. I think that there are a lot of different groups of magic players, and different scenes attract different types of players. Take the SCG grinder scene, where the interest is in winning as much as possible. These people are attracted to playing the "best" deck, so they play Miracles, Delver or whatever FOTM is. They also tend to be salty assholes, so the decks they gravitate towards have this bad reputation. I think you can find similar trends among other types of players.

>>49838921
I'll fight you. Prison players are all pugnacious shitstarters

>>49839304
You can't cast Massacre if they don't have a Plains

>>49839305
Oh, I forgot to mention, there was also a heated debate where he tried to convince me that Suppression Field is useless shit.

>>49839323
I think it's definitely on the chopping block, but it's certainly not useless. It's just high variance and not a soldier

>>49839305
I play Stax not because I hate people, but because I hate the decks they play. I don't want them to suffer; I just want them to hate my deck as much as I hate theirs. I'm a healthy, balanced individual

>>49839305
Forgot the damn tag

>>49839350
I think Stacy is great if you like having a conversation. There's not all that many game decisions being made while you wait for a concession.

>>49839342
He meant in general. This was after I pointed out that when you're playing a white deck with almost all the Stax cards, you may as well just be playing Stax.

>>49839397
I do think that Soldier Stompy has angles that Stax doesn't, like legitimate card advantage and tempo. I just don't think there is a de facto best build of it quite yet. It certainly has gotten a lot of new cards in the last 3 sets

>>49838921
Manaless Dredge has an almost guaranteed t2 kill, t3 at the latest and never mulligans to oblivion like LED so it's faster in that sense, even if it "skips" its first turn. 4 street wraiths and phantasmagorian make playing through active DRS easier than trying to get LED+Breakthrough that doesn't get fow'd.

Why are so many people using trips in these threads?

>>49840017
We used to just name fag then an imposter(s) showed up so we all started using trips

>>49840017
There's been an imposter these last few threads, so most of us picked up trips.

>>49839304
I will be playing licht in at least one side event at gp prov, probably on sunday. My plan is to play doomsday for the first 2 days and then once the brain bleeds start i'll switch to belcher/lich.

>>49840094
>>49840138
So why use names in the first place?

>>49841045
So we know who we're talking to. It's not a very full general, so it ended up being more like a medium-sized playgroup who chat online.

>>49841045
Because we had a nicr low key community building up where people werent fucks, and It was interesting to know at a glance what deck a person played. It also makes conversations easier because you don't have people responding to the wrong person. If we have to use trips for a while we will.

>>49841113
Well I play dredge so I can't just call myself "dredge boy 7"

>>49818374
Mystical tutor will never come off card's busted, it would just make miracles better too.

>>49836908
in my experience

dnt guys are usually scrawny with very short hair and wore frame glasses. not directly related to the question, but their mechanics are usually ugly (hard to explain, but it has to do with the way they hold the cards in their hand, the way they draw and tap their cards. it's not fluid).

fat, bearded guys are probably on lands or aggro loam unless their dress tells me something else.

burn players are the only ones that do the red sleeves/red deckbox/goblin guide playmat.

metal band shirt indicates a black deck, probably storm or reanimator, but could also be bug/grixis delver. I'd assume the more brutal the band, the more likely reanimator, while likelihood of delver or storm variants scale with how techy/obscure the band is.

if I see an actual adult, ~40, I'd assume shardless or miracles.

seconding stax players being nice, I had a good conversation with the only one I've played against.

>>49841188
Sure you can. We can start a Dredge clan and overthrow the other decks.

>>49841255
That D&T description is pretty accurate, though the only D&T player I knew was this Asian guy in his 30s who was so thick he looked like he could bench press a mobile home. He was a nice guy though, we played a lot of Modern together.

follow up question: do you think you look like someone who plays your deck? what deck would you put yourself on if you were your opponent?

>>49841396
If I had to pick a deck for me at a glance, probably something like Dredge, or any other cheap deck. Possibly Miracles. If it was one of my friends trying to guess what deck I built, they would guess a shitty meme deck like Leylines, which I do actually play.

>>49841396
I play Manaless and I always wear one of the same two sets of clothing to my LGS so yes.

>>49841384
I think I've played against 5 or 6 different dnt players, and all but one of them have been white weenies themselves. actually, the last guy was a weenie too, just a fat one.

did your Asian friend have shitty mechanics? I wasn't sure if my thoughts on that were coherent.

>>49841396
I definitely look like a combo player. No one guesses doomsday though. I think I look more like a Belcher player.

>>49841384
You play LED dredge or nah?

>>49841396

I'm the metal band shirt guy who also uses anime sleeves. I'd guess myself as a casual supertimmy or an infect player. I'm mostly on lands/enchantress.

>>49841516
LED all the way. It's way faster and more resilient to hate than manaless. Now there was a Manaless Dredge guy who used to pop in but I haven't seen him for a couple of threads. Must be an extended holiday or something.

>>49841623
Is it possible to play without the LEDs?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-goof-troop-legacy-dredge/

Feedback would be appreciated.

>>49841661
Much weaker than manaless dredge or led dredge. I've played both and can tell just from looking at this list.

>>49841675
So should I just buy chinaman fakes for the LEDs?

>>49841661
Is it possible to play? Yes. Is it the same power? No. But if you're on a budget, here's what I suggest.

You're pretty high on lands and low on Dredgers. I would cut one or two lands to add in one or two Golgari Thug. With a full playset of Ichorid you'll want all the fodder you can find, not to mention you minimize your mulligans by having a full 12 Dredgers.

Is Ancestor's Chosen for the Burn match-up? I think it's safe to race, you could comfortably cut it for something else. Terastodon/Ashen Rider/Blazing Archon are all interchangeable but Elesh Norn and Iona are staples, glad to see you have those tucked away.

>>49841712
If you do buy Chinaman LEDs, buy from Villa Zheng, his are a little light but still incredibly top tier for what Chinaman usually offers.

>>49841712
I wouldn't suggest counterfeiting, I've had to DQ people for it, even the best fakes you can tell if you take them out of the sleeve while deck checking.

>>49841762
This is just FNM with a group who openly discussed some chinaman fakes they had, I think it'll be ok and GP only happens in Aus 1 a year where I live if im lucky,

>>49841778
ok man, just be careful.

>>49841762
What about a badly damaged copy of a card from one of the early sets like Alpha or Legends?

>>49841906
Usually you can tell based on text, most of the time the text is off too wide or too thin of font, sometimes the mana symbols look off, worse comes to worse I always do the flashlight test if I'm not sure, a lot of times you can feel it, fakes usually feel glossier than normal magic cards.

>>49841943
But real older cards also often have errors like that.

>>49841954
They will still be made of MTG cardstock though, also real cards wont have the same texture and will pass the flashlight test, if you're really curious about hunting down fakes you can also take a magnifying glass to it and see the way the ink is applied to the cardstock (you'll need a real card for comparison.), I was just giving some examples of indicators. The only places I've DQ'd people at were bigger events keep in mind, I was never the only person who checked the cards.

>>49841954
>>49842007
This always helped me identify fakes.

http://imgur.com/a/kZQNY

>>49841723
Link to his store or email?

>>49842065
Didn't know about the green mana symbol good thing to know.

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>bans & unbans
Unban:
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Necropotence
Memory Jar
Mind Twist

Ban:
nothing

>>49842095
[email protected]

>>49842102
The biggest thing to know is that fakes are typically printed in one flat printing process whereas Wizards prints in multiple color plates (black, cyan, yellow, and magenta iirc) and uses what I think is called multi-matrix dot printing? I'm not an expert, I just know what I've been told.

>>49842140
>wanting the format to go Ritual Ritual Twist you for 4
I'm fine, I need cards in my graveyard anyways. :^)

So I missed a turn 2 kill dnt game 2 last night and it just came to me. I was having a moment where my brain was screaming at me that I could kill with the cards in my hands but I couldn't come up with it on the spot so I just passed the turn. However...

Doomsday puzzle time!
You have an island and a swamp on board. Your hand is ritual, doomsday, wish, brainstorm, ponder, ponder. You both have 20 life. How do you kill them?

>>49815779
I've been meaning to build Tezzerator, I've got most of the pieces. What's your list look like? How do you perform? Any tips for playing it?

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>>49841396
I think that I do. I play infect in legacy and modern and also Lantern control in modern. Not a bro like this other post mentioned, but just an obnoxious faggot who plays obnoxious decks. But I've been told I'm a huge dick when you first meet me and it took me a while to figure out it was said obnoxious attitude, which I was just unaware of. Skinny dorky looking fuck with glasses if that helps.

Follow up question: how important is your decks' aesthetic to you? For me it's annoyingly important. I can only buy specific printings of cards once I've decided a deck aesthetic.

>>49843171
your cards are prettier than mine.

my deck's aesthetic is pretty important to me in that I generally have a preferred art that I will play with even if it's more expensive. I also prefer old border cards. when I play infect in modern, my two forests are unglued. if I'm playing a deck with lightning bolt, I go 3 black bordered 1 white bordered. I guess I'm obnoxious, too.

>>49843171
For me the aesthetic depends on the deck. When I play Dark Ritual decks I only use the Urza's Saga printing. When I use Hymn to Tourach it has to be EMA printings. John Avon 5ED snow Mountains. Theros twilight Forest. Some things I'm real twitchy about but others I couldn't care less.

Aesthetic doesn't matter to me at all. I take pride in my ugly decks. Mixed printings, mixed borders, the works.

>>49842702
>What's your list look like
I've played a few lists that I've liked, though I think the best is UB and UBR.

>UB
Straight UB is most all-in on the Thopter Sword combo, less answers and interaction. Singleton Crucible has been a powerhouse since I started testing it, but I think that's because I drew and and a Waste in my openers every time I saw it. Variance will probably kick in and reduce my opinion of it, also great with Mox Diamonds of course. Being in UB puts a lot less stress on my mana base so I can afford to have Wastelands, which is pretty nice.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/18-10-16-ub-tezz/

>UBR
The first thing I have to say it that the manabase it a bit shifty, though what you get for being in red is great. Daretti, Iconoclast is amazing vs "fair" decks and even vs combo he blows up Moxes and such. The red splash is pretty much only for Daretti, I'm looking into more options, maybe Kommand in the sb.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ubr-tezz-4/

>Welder
I guess I should bring up this monstrosity, I played this for a while and dropped it after the manabase made me want to kill myself. I brought out the ThopterSword combo and brought in Goblin Welder, Wurmcoil Engines and Tangle Wire. Maindeck EE and Nihil Spellbomb let me beat a few matches I shouldn't have been able to win. Cavern of Souls goes on Goblin to push my Welders through Chalice.

>How do you perform?
I think I have a decent matchup vs control decks and a good one against storm combo decks, with Chalice, Trini mainboard in most lists which I can Transmute for and Force just in case. I have trouble with other decks that wanna grind you out like Jund, where they're packing Decay, Maelstrom Pulse and such. DnT is also pretty bad, but it's easy to break out of a Port lock with a bunch of Sol Ring lands and Signets in your deck.
1/2

>>49843946
>Any tips for playing it?
I think the most important thing to learn, and this is for pretty much any legacy deck is to be able to recognize what your opponent is playing and play around that. This is especially important when you have Chalice and can use it to lock them out of their wincon. Academy Ruins is a real hero, especially with Strix. When games drag out and my opponent is trying to beat down with a Goyf or something it's really hard to beat
>Block with Strix
>EoT Ruins target Strix
Now your turn
>Cast Strix, draw a card
Ad Nauseam
Forgot Welder Tezz link
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ubr-tezzewelder/

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>>49843611
That counts as an aesthetic. I tried to make my BR reanimator list as ugly as possible with as many different printings and white/black borders mixed in.

Anyone here fuck around with mono blue delver? I'm currently moonlighting as an undercover budgetfag at some stores heavy on drazi, lands, and 12post using this list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mono-blue-back-to-basics-delver/

If anyone has some CC it would be greatly appreciated.

Today I learned a circle is a rectangle. End blog post.

a POLAR rectangle but still a rectangle nonetheless

>>49841255

>likelihood of delver or storm variants scale with how techy/obscure the band is.

That actually describes me to a Tee. Pun fully intended.

>>49841712

No. Just buy the LEDs. They're super useful for their crossover value alone. I had initially wanted to play Dredge, but I started playing Legacy with All Spells because I realized I had almost all the cards for it. I picked up LEDs, which gave me everything I needed for Dredge as well, and then a few short purchases later, I had Belcher and ANT together.

>>49839511

I disagree. It's certainly got a whole lot of consistency, but it really relies on hitting all the right benchmarks to get a T2. It can't pull a T1, even after sideboarding, and unlike LED Dredge, you can't really ever mulligan.

One of the major strengths of LED Dredge is that a mull to 3 can still give you enough to cook off on turn 2-3. It's vulnerable to countermagic, but it's also much less vulnerable to graveyard hate.

>>49839230

I'm with you on this one. I like decks that do goofy, crazy things, like dumping its entire library on T1 or playing 15 spells in the same turn. If I had the money, I'd probably build Lands myself. Deck looks sweet.

>>49844238
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/lich-fit-v2/

This is what math makes me do.

>>49844470
It's time to stop, Frankenstein. Any more hodge-podge body parts and it'll become a kitchen table

While we're talking manaless dredge, how good is that deck? Does it lose 100% after sideboard?

I mean it's pretty cheap it looks like a decent entry point to play legacy without getting your wallet raped by dual lands.

Also what would be the next cheap replacement for them? fastlands?

>>49845524
You could try shocks or maybe battle lands, or even SOI lands

>>49845524
Chinamen duals are prety cheap

>>49845524

it's very consistent which puts high mulligan pressure on the opponent to start with hate, it can't explode turn1 like manadredge but you should never have to mulligan yourself. if they end up with 2 lands + rip + maybe a 1cmc spell to get past chancellor then you can't do anything. the deck wins and loses fast, and it can get very boring after a while. if you eventually upgrade to manadredge (LEDs are the problem not dual lands, you want stuff like mana confluence and city of ass) it's a very good entry point

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>>49845457
But NicFit can be combined with anything.

>>49845821
>>49845895
thanks senpai

>>49845852
I don't mind proxies but I'd rather not use them

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>LGS doesn't have any Blood Moon

Is magus of the moon a viable option?

>>49843171
>foil crop rotation
MUH DICK

>>49843171

my pauper decks have nothing but the cheapest basic lands in spanish/italian/portuguese to trigger autists does that count

>>49846838
Sure, if you don't mind it eating a Swords or a Lightning Bolt. Blood Moon is always going to be better because enchantment removal is virtually never run in the mainboard, but creature removal is essential to almost every deck.

>>49847326
>dredge player is an asshole

Well no surprise there but its only a temp card until saturday unfortunately.

>>49847502
>asks a question
>gets an answer
>you're an asshole

Hey /tg/, i wanna make a mono red Akroma deck. Any tips? Also, i plan on using snow covered mountains with the lens thing so only i get double mana. What should my land base be for that?

>>49841396
I look like a control player but I play burn.
I like control and play burn for budget reasons but I legitimately enjoy the deck.

>>49847824
This sounds awesome. I'm guessing 20 lands with 4 SSG. Maybe some scrying sheets but that could be too slow for legacy. Fetches won't really help you all that much, unless you want to splash a color but then that changes things. Which kinda deck are you going for? A chalice based deck like stompy or something less known and more janky?

>>49848013
Haha, im not to sure yet. Something spicy for sure though. Any suggestions?

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>>49842349
Senpai, please. I just want to count to twenty - and I'm not talking about storm counters!

>>49841396
I look like the deck I play
I play BW pegasus anal destruction

>>49848078
Look up "big red" or "red stompy" for a base idea of the deck

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>>49847326
>Blood Moon is always going to be better because enchantment removal is virtually never run in the mainboard

So is this why the miracles guy at my LGS concedes against me and swaps in disenchant?

>>49848364
I don't know why he concedes desu, miracles has a solid amount of basics in it, I usually get one out as my first or second land because of blood moon

>>49848516
My goblin deck isn't exactly the norm. I mean I run matron and ringleader but I don't have lackey.

>>49847824
You could do a 12 Post package if you want to have enough mana to cheese out huge creatures in the late game. Red 12 Post sounds like a deck I'd like to goldfish with. You got a list?

>>49848226

>BW Pegasus

what's this?

I had sudden and tired flash of insight in a middle of night and wrote down a deck idea,
I have a feeling that there might be something in this mess. At least "ok-ish" deck for casual legacy.

Sorcery
4x Acorn Harvest
3x Deep Analysis
4x Lingering Souls
3x Roar of the Wurm

Creature
3x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4x Pack Rat
4x Shardless Agent
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang

Instant
4x Accumulated Knowledge
3x Brainstorm

Enchantment
4x Standstill

>>49842349

I've gone through a lot of routes now and I'm always 1 mana short to cast tendrils fuck

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>>49849324
TASIGUR!!1!!one!!

>>49841255
I'm a fat, bearded guy who is usually in metal band shirts. I am a bit disappointed at how much of a stereotype I seem to be.

>>49841396
I dunno I usually wear my Enclave officer Hoodie or some sort of graphic tee, I always wear shorts or sweatpants unless I just got off work.

>>49848142
This one is about a 6 on the Dickter Scale of Doomsday Difficulty.

>>49842349
LED
Petal
Probe
LED
Random
Start with Ritual, 1, then DD for the aforementioned pile, 2.
Brainstorm, 3, draw LED, Petal, Git probe, put back Burning Wish and Ponder. Cast Petal, 4, LED, 5, and then sac the petal to Ponder, 6. Draw another LED with Ponder, cast LED, 7. Then cast Git Probe, 8, cracking both LED for RRR and BBB, play Burning wish, 9, and then ToA.
God damn, that took like 20 minutes of thinking and trying out random piles. I recently built DDFT and am quite glad I did, making piles is tons of fun.

>>49848863
Exactly what the name suggests. I play some White cards and some Black cards and I make Pegasuses. I have a perfect record against the dredge player at my local, so perfect he switched decks and plays Affinity now.

>>49849744
Yep that's it. Brainstorm piles are very powerful and underappreciated. Great for killING fast and with minimal onboard resources.

>>49850303
I noticed that as well, BS allows for some strange and powerful piles. Same thing goes for Lotus Petal, I really underestimated what it can do in piles.
How about a few more puzzles? I'll look at them tomorrow morning over some coffee.

>>49850061

Tell me more

You make pegasuses, so I'm guessing Sacred Mesa to make tokens? Or do you use Pegasus Stampede and abuse its buyback in some spicy way? Or do you make use of that Pegasus from Origins that's sorta like Thalia?

>>49850511
I'll try to come up with some more and post later tonight.

While i don't play competitively, my friends and i like to dick around a bit. Thoughts on this deck i'm making? http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/sac-sacks/
I decided to proxy Mikaelus and the westvales, and subbed in Fateful return, 2 Return from the grave, an undercity informer, and a grim discovery as well as a 4th tutor and a 4th retribution since i cuoldn't get my hands on an Intent or an Attrition

>>49850943
Diabolic Intent, attrition, stitch together, entomb, return from the underworld, and black market*

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biggest misplay I've seen in a long time, enjoy:

>my opponent has a fetchland
>I have taiga + manabond, no reason to manabond drop yet
>manabond on the stack, my opponent cracks fetch in response to grab underground sea, casts entomb on grieselbrand
>I have bojuka & wasteland in hand

>>49841255
>dnt guys are usually scrawny with very short hair and wore frame glasses. not directly related to the question, but their mechanics are usually ugly (hard to explain, but it has to do with the way they hold the cards in their hand, the way they draw and tap their cards. it's not fluid).

Craig Wescoe is the avatar of a DnT player.

>>49850627
You're mostly right. I run a bunch of 0 drop artifacts for free mana, Chalice, and Eidolon of Rhetoric. for a soft lock on my opponent turn 2. I can normally just sit comfortably until turn 4 where I can drop Mesa and Stampeding Pegasus, sacrifice all my lands, and make a bunch of pegasus.
I'm sure theres a better way to run the deck but its pretty good considering I haven't put any money into the thing besides buying more copies of Chalice.

>>49851848
I always thought Shahar Shenhar was a good D&T model too.

>>49851906
Are you running something like Planar Birth? That's a card I've always wanted to see used in some way.

>>49851906

Sounds great! I love Sacred Mesa (it was one of the few rares I owned four of back during Mirage!) so I've always been looking for a deck to take advantage of it and use it as a wincon, but there weren't any established decks using it so I wasn't sure what to do.

>>49852168
Had to Google Planar Birth, honestly I've never seen it used, but damn that could be good... The game's usually over by the time I get the first or second wave of Pegasuses out but I might actually test this. Thanks for bringing this to my attention mate.

>>49852503
http://www.autocardanywhere.com/
So you won't have to Google cards anymore.

>>49852528

Holy fuck, my life has been changed.

Thank you, LoamPoxGuy.

>>49852906
No prob, guy

>>49850739
>>49850511
Alright I have a DDFT puzzle, and I'll try to come up with more tomorrow. As always, the puzzles are based on my current list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-16-ddft/
Assume it's preboard unless specified. Assume life totals are irrelevant unless specified.

It's game 1 vs DnT. It's been a long game, and you are at 4 life. They are at 30 due to some batterskull action. There are no relevant hate permanents, but you roughly know the contents of their hand and it's full of swords to plowshares, so Lab Maniac is out of the question. You can beat them this turn.
Your hand: Ritual, Rain of Filth, Doomsday, Burning Wish, LED.
Your board: Swamp, Island, Volcanic Island, Sensei's Divining Top.

What's the play?

>>49853225
1. Ritual (BBB)
2. Rain of filth (BB)
3. LED (BB), sac swamp (BBB)
4. Doomsday for LED LED LED Wish SDT, tap volcanic, sac volcanic (BR)
5. Wish for Contract, crack LED in response (BBB), tap SDT to draw
6. LED (BBB)
7. Infernal Contract, crack LED in response (RRR)
8. LED (RRR)
9. LED (RRR)
10. SDT (RR), tap island, sac island (RRUB), tap SDT to draw
11. SDT (RRB), tap SDT to draw
12. SDT (RR)
13. Wish for tendrils, crack LEDs in response (BBBBBB), tap SDT to draw
14. SDT (BBBBB), tap SDT to draw
15. SDT (BBBB)
16. GIVE HIM THE DRILLS

Did I do it right?

>>49853412
If the Batterskull token is still in play, then I'm 1 spell short and I lose. If there is a whole other solution to this, then I missed it.

>>49853412
>GIVE HIM THE DRILLS
Why do I find that so funny

>>49853459
Maybe it's something about the thought of the DnT player thinking he's safe at 30 life, watching and slowly realizing how wrong he was until BAM! Tendrils to his dome for 32.

>>49853225
>>49853412
I thought of a different winning line.
Swamp into Ritual, 1, into Rain of Filth, 2, BB
Tap Volc and Island for UU, sac the lands for BBBBB and UU.
Play LED, 3, and DD, 4. BB and UU floating.
Make the following pile: Ideas Unbound, LED, Git Probe, Doomsday and a random card.
Tap top, cracking LED in response for UUU.
Cast IU, 5, BB UUU floating.
Cast LED, 6, cast Top with B, 7, cast Probe with mana, 8, cracking LED for BBB. You now have BBBB and UU floating.
Cast DD, 9, making the following pile: IU, LED, LED, Burning Wish, and a random card.
Tap top, cast IU, 10. Play Top, 11, play LED, 12, play LED, 13, tap top, cracking the LEDs for RRRBBB, cast BW, 14, ToA.

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>>49853412
>16. GIVE HIM THE DRILLS

To address>>49853433: I wrote this late last night and overlooked that. I meant for it to require a convoluted storm pile a la >>49853412 or >>49854118.
Both of these are equally correct.

Personally I favor the non-double doomsday pile because I think it is far simpler, so less chance to screw up the order of your cards or something.

PUZZLE NUMBER 2:
you actually can kill with maniac in the situation from the previous puzzzle. This solves the "STP my Batterskull" problem as well. Lets say he has 3 STP. How do you beat that?

>>49855588
Wish for therapy and make a standard Pile with maniac? Seems a lot simpler than my double dd pile and the other pile suggestion.
IU, LED, Git Probe, Git Probe, Maniac.

>>49856173
Yeah. You can also put therapy in the pile and wish for contract to draw in. Basically I was tired last night and created a misleading scenario. I'll try to come up with a better one.

>>49856214
I still appreciate you thinking up puzzles to solve, and having a restraint on not using ladman makes it a fun challenge.
Well, I'm off to play some DDFT at the weekly legacy tournament at my flgs.

>>49856173
>>49856214
Fucking hell I'm out of it this morning. You don't have the life to cast probe after doomsday. Here's the answer:
Float all your mana, ritual, rain, led, doomsday. Pile [led, petal, therapy, probe, labman] wish, crack led for bbb, contract, led, petal, therapy naming stp, probe off petal, cracked led for uuu, maniac, tap top to win

>>49856277
But you do have enough, ritual, rain of filth, tap volc for red, island for U and sac the lands. Cast Wish with BBBBU floating. Cast doomsday, play LED, crack it for UUU, now you have BUUUU floating. Cast IU, UU floating, use the B to pay for top and Probe twice with UU.

>>49856401
You need the B to cast therapy.

>>49815642
Miracles is fine. Ban chalice otv.

>>49815642
ban meme decks

>>49856277
Can't you get island instead of petal for an extra mana?

>>49856563
I'm not sure I understand your question. Island works the same as petal in my pile, assuming you hadn't played a land yet. That slot can actually be anything since you could have U floating already anyway with the pile I proposed.

>>49856633
It should be an extra mana because of the rain of filth. I was just thinking about it on the drive to work, you could be more mana efficient.

>>49856895
You have to cast rain before the land is played so it won't have the ability to sax for black.

Here''s another puzzle and it''s complicated so bear with me (and hope I didn't fuck it up).

Game1 vs miracles. They have counterbalance, tapped tundra, untapped tundra, 2 tapped islands. You have bayou, 2 seas, badlands, swamp, SDT on board. You have Doomsday, Abrupt Decay, Probe in hand. You probe them. Counterbalance flips to reveal another Counterbalance. Probe draws you a Therapy and shows you they have a Counterspell and a Swords to Plowshares. You know you can resolve doomsday so what do you do to have the best chance of winning post-doomsday?

>tfw you could've won the game but lost due not paying attention

>>49842156
>Ritual Ritual Twist for 4
Not better than Hymn, just a 4 for 3.

>>49857130
Doomsday for Brainstorm, lab man, brainstorm, brainstorm, bayou
Draw brainstorm with top, cast it, putting back brainstorms, cast therapy for swords, cast lab man, cast top, pass turn?
This gets around counterbalance on two and wins the next turn through counterspell, but folds to 1 drop on top next turn.
I don't know if I can do better than that, but I'll keep working on it.

>>49858545
I just realised that I have one too many cards in library, I had the Bayou left over from fiddling with a double decay pile. That can be a probe along with one brainstorm, with the other brainstorm on the bottom of the pile. That should get you there next turn.

>>49858545
How are you casting all that? You only have 5 lands, and you need 3 to cast doomsday. Also, since this is g1, you only have 1 decay main, so be aware.

>>49858688
I can't fucking count today. I'll come back to this puzzle later because clearly I am not in the right mindset.

>>49858820
No worries. It is tough and unconventional and leaves the opponent with a very small chance to fuck your day up.

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mail came in today. got some spicy sideboard stuff just in time for legacy tonight, and misc stuff for when I eventually build bug delver. what was the last magic purchase you guys made?

>>49860279
I picked up the rest of my Burn sideboard including Plateau. My next purchase is going to be the core of Deadguy Ale (minus landbase, Liliana and Bobs).

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>>49860279
I got these fellas a couple weeks ago, foiling doesn't show up very well though

>tfw playing ANT and get hymned twice but still manage to cobble together a win.
Feels so much better than winning on turn one.

>>49860846
>Burn sideboard including Plateau

Are you a retard? Burn stays mono red in Legacy for a very good reason.

>>49862940
>tfw he cabal therapies my invigorate
>tfw I draw another next turn

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>>49863297
oh boy, now he's doing it to me. alters I've posted previously to prove I'm me, I guess.

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>>49860279
I got this thing in the mail a few days ago.

>>49863297
Retarded? No. Only testing because I was too short-sighted to pick up Leylines and now everyone in Modern is running them to buttfuck Dredge. Kind of stuck with it now but it's not like I'm splashing for Boros Charm or Helix. Plateau is only for RiP, nothing else.

Weren't you here when I discussed this? I thought you were here.

>>49863442
I was kinda suspicious when he called the dude a retard. This guy is super obvious with his fakery.

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>>49863469
>tfw I'm The Dude
You've got the wrong Lebowski!

>>49815936
Be happy xmage even works on your computer. The fucking thing freezes whenever I go to game two, then just crashes on startup until I do a hard reboot, then I get one more game.

>>49863469
yeah, I'm not that much of a dick

also, rk post's stuff is all really cool. what are you using that for?

>>49863623
It's just a zombie token. I'll probably just use it to style on people in edh games.

>>49863657
I guess this means my 30 foil zombie tokens will get benched for a minute.

What did you guys think of core sets as far as reprints go? What was the best core set? What was the worst? Should they have kept using white borders or were you happy with the move to black borders?

>>49864402
I think 8th and m10 were my favorites. I used to hate the white borders, but white borders are starting to grow on me.
I miss core sets.

>>49864956
Hated the 8th edition, it had the new card frame and overall it looked so ugly.

>>49865033
We were just talking about which sets had reprints you liked the best. 8th had a lot of my favorite rares, m10 had motherfucking Lightning Bolt.

>>49862940

It's awesome to play a deck with which you can try to combo three times over about five turns, then draw a Swamp and go off when they're out of permission.

>>49863657

I actually like to use those random "pro-player" cards they used to throw into boosters around 2007-2010 for some of my tokens. Some of the portraits are kind of funny, esp. when the players are acting goofy for the pictures. I also used one of those advertising cards from a booster of around the same time that said, "SCORE EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT."

>>49864402

Not sure I can pick a favorite or least favorite; I feel like the Modern Masters and Eternal Masters sets are starting to take the place of core sets in a lot of ways. Regarding borders, I've never had a problem with white borders. I actually think Unlimited cards look better than Alpha and Beta ones because the colors are so dark and saturated on the earliest sets. I think the white borders make the cards pop out a bit more than the black borders do.

I will never be enough of a baller/fully employed person to own A/B cards.

>>49817970
>when everyone starts playing 12 post
>main decking sideboard cards
uwatm8?
I play 12 post and miracles feels like my ONLY good match up, and I main 4 needles. Damn near everything runs waste, and now the new MUD list is even running ghost quater. Counter top is retarded. Have 3 potential counters+whatever might be in hand+ auto countering anything cmc 1 is fucking retarded. Oh not to mention the instant speed board wipe for 1, just for fun. Also, a lot of people dont like infect because its so gimmicky, and most people dont have a bank loan to take out to build lands.

Which one of you tripfags was the Vancouverite? I'm coming west for a week in november and need to know where to go for legacy supplies while I'm in town.

>>49818398
I want them to unban tinker just so I can sell mine off and make fat stacks, before they get banned a week later.

>>49866351
I don't recall any of us being Vancouverites, I'm probably the closest but I live 2 hours away from any big shop so I can't tell you

>>49866458
Shoot darn, thanks anyhow man.

Maybe i just saw the okanagan spring and assumed.

>>49866528
I live close actually, just not really ever been to a card shop there for 7-8 years

>>49866564
I love this general, y'all are so nice to one another and helpful to others.

Long time lurker, extremely infrequent poster. Keep making /tg/ great.

Love, Anon

>>49866586
Aw shucks, you would've hit me in the feels if I had any.

Besides that, what are you building?

>>49866630
The dream is to eventually be able to afford legitimate Underground Seas for U/B reanimator, but until then I'll make do with some chinamans.

In goldfishing Tidespout Tyrant seems worthwhile as a one of, especially coupled with Jin-Git or Sire of Insanity, but does anyone with more experience care to chime in?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-10-16-bu-reanimator/

Thats the list so far.

just got back from the weekly. went 2-1, disappointed less people showed up this week.

round 1 vs shardless (0-2)
he wins the for roll and has t2 liliana, which I daze, but he has force. I don't really recover. I only ended up drawing a single pump spell throughout both games, even though I went up to two become immense this week.

round 2 vs 4c loam (2-1)
he has t1 sylvan library on the play, but reuses to draw cards off it most of the game. I draw the third green source I need to kick vines + invigorate one turn too late; he's already resolved chalice on one. game two he thoughtseizes me and goes to wasteland my inkmoth nexus, but I save it with vines. then I have invigorate+become immense. game 3 is insane. this is was I sent to my friends regarding it:
"I just ass ravaged a 4c loam player. I had actual everything and you could tell he was salty and I couldn't even blame him. most awkward I've felt winning a game in a while.

>spell pierce your toxic deluge
>stifle your liliana activation
>teferi's response your wasteland
>vines your maze of ith"

round 3 vs storm (2-0)
game one he was on the play and starts going off one turn before I could've killed him, but I guess he punted. said he was one mana short. game 2 I have a turn 2 kill, but he thoughtseizes my elf. I gitaxian probe into a second one, but the coast isn't clear since the probe revealed a flusterstorm. he can't go off on his next turn and scoops.

>>49866737
this was me. idk what happened to the trip.

>>49866737
wait, hold up. Vs a deck which doesn't actually care about your life total, he never drew extra off Sylvan?

>>49866691
We have an actual Reanimator guy who shows up every now and again (two of them, actually, one on BR and the other on UB). I'm no expert but I'll put in my two bits anyways.

Looks like a toolbox build, which is pretty cool to see. A lot of lists I've seen run the playset of Griselbrand plus Iona, Elesh Norn, and occasionally Tidespout or Inkwell. My ideal package against the field would be

>4 Griselbrand (ruins everyone's day)
>1 Inkwell Leviathan (mostly ruins Miracle's day)
>1 Iona, Shield of Emeria (ruins so many decks it's laughable)
>1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (RIP tribal, Dredge and friends)
>1 It That Betrays

I fucking love It That Betrays and I think it's a severely underappreciated card. Then again, with both D&T and Miracles as top-tier decks, that gives a lot of people access to Swords, which hoses this poor guy. I still like it.

Spells look fine. My library reference list runs 15 lands instead of 14, but apples and oranges.

>>49867042
Hopefully i can summon the fellow reanimators to the thread some day. Thanks for the advice dog, i will take it into consideration.

In terms of a lockout piece, which would you hate to see more, Jin-Git or Sire of Insanity?

Since nobody has gotten it I'm going to post the answer to my last DDFT puzzle before I go to bed and the thread hits the bump limit.


This one is about minimizing your chance of losing since i can't think of a pile that guarantees you the win. Here is what I believe is the best course of action. First, Decay their CB. You need Decay in the pile to beat the second CB, and you can't beat 2 CB's on board. Then cast Doomsday and build this pile: [Abrupt Decay, LED, Ideas Unbound, Brainstorm, Lab Man]. This is a rare Pass-Two-Turns pile. Pass the turn. They draw CB and probably play it and pass. On your turn, simply draw and pass. Then they draw a mystery card. This is the downside of the pass-two-turns pile, but I don't believe there is any pass-one-turn pile that can beat all the hate you know about. There is a small number of cards they can draw that will fuck you up. Basically they need to draw Predict, or have 2 live Counterspells, i.e draw Counterspell or get Force and a blue card (maybe the 2nd Counterbalance if they didn't play it). A second STP is not game over. On their end step, Decay the CB if they played it. untap and draw LED. Cast Therapy and name Counterspell. if you see you can't beat the mystery card, scoop. Else, Play LED, crack for UUU, tap top to draw IU, cast it and draw Top, LabMan, Brainstorm. Cast Top and lab man. if the mystery card was dead, tap top, respond to the plow with brainstorm and win. If they drew a second removal spell, pass the turn. This gives them another chance to draw a live card, but if they don't you now have 3 draws (draw step, SDT, brainstorm) to use to beat double removal spell. Estimates suggest you have around 80%+ chance to win with this pile.

>>49867255

If the opponent's on Storm, Sire is significantly better than Jin. I've lost games to Reanimator because I Pondered a Chain of Vapor to the top rather than putting it one card below. It also forces discards on each player's end step, it helps fill your graveyard, and it can't get extraordinarily renditioned to Venezuela (treaties be damned).

Tidespout Tyrant is also really good. Better in grindy matchups that rely on landing dudes. I think a Sire, a Tyrant, and a Grave Titan (maybe an Ashen Rider, too) are the best non-Legendary toolbox guys for Reanimans.

>>49867286

Anybody interested in starting a new thread?

>>49867485
All of that was perfectly sensible advice, except for the Venezuela bit. Am i missing something?

>>49867485
>>49867530
I think he means Karakas.

>>49867556
That would make sense, yes.

>>49867580
I don't get the Venezuela bit, but that is the only removal I can think of that is commonplace, affects Jin-Gitaxias, and doesn't affect Sire of Insanity.

>>49867606
Oh, the capital of Venezuela is Caracas. I feel a bit more stupid than I did before.

>>49867625
Man between the two of us we could ALMOST operate an automobile. On a good day.

>>49867606
>>49867625
>>49867674
You guys are madmen, I think too many DDFT puzzles addled your minds.

>>49867625
>>49867674

I should stop trying to be clever; whenever I call Clique-lock Miracles "Venezuelan Legends," people just give me this weird look like I'm trying to be racist or something.

>>49867767
I like Venser, Shaper Savant with Karakas.
I ran him in a Stoneblade shell with Sword of Feast and Famine for a while. Bouncing two things and bashing for four every turn was fun.

>>49867747
Man i havent even attempted a single one of those damned things, I'm a newborn to these threads.

>>49867799

I bet! Forcing double-discard locks somebody out really quickly, too.

>>49867862
Me neither bro and I've been here for like... a couple weeks?

>>49867747

It's funny; I think I have all the pieces for Doomsday except multiple Tops, but I never put the deck together.

I decided to try Storm partially because it was a challenge (I'm kind of terrible at math), and every time I see a Doomsday puzzle, I just sort of blank out on everything. Practice makes perfect, but I don't know that I'm sharp enough to pull it off.

>>49867904
I coulda sworn I've seen the boogeyman around here longer than that.

>>49867921
Try it out sometime if you can get tops. It's fun and different for stormie normies, and it can teach you some things about the value of cantrips and painkillers.

>>49867893
To be fair, I ran Vendillion Clique in the same deck.

>>49867998

I actually ran it briefly in a conversion sideboard for All Spells that only ran two piles:
—Shelldock Isle, Emrakul, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal
—Lion's Eye Diamond, Gitaxian Probe, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe, Gitaxian Probe

It was too cutesy and folded to a bunch of stuff, but it did pique my interest in the card and ways to use it. As I recall there's a thread somewhere on The Source (or maybe MTGSalvation) that attempted to put together a list of every Doomsday pile that was even remotely feasible. I can try to dig it up if anyone's interested.

>>49868047
I'm interested even if i won't understand most of it!

>>49868244

This isn't the list I'd seen before, but here you go:

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/established-legacy/combo/581031-primer-doomsday-fetchland-tendrils

Sections 5-7 deal with how DDFT works, basic stacks for Doomsday, and more complicated ones. I need to hit the hay, but I can keep looking tomorrow.

>>49869091
Well, i know a hell of a lot more now, even if it barely scratched the surface.