Warmachine/Hordes General - Skorne Dreams Edition

>>49798206
First for Amon's nipples.

Skarre1 and all the Satyxis being real good is tempting me to play Cryx.

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So is it true that the impetus for Hordes was to introduce the Skorne to the setting?

>>49799266
Skorne was already a major player in the RPG. Hordes was to introduce Skorne to the wargame.

>>49799582

>Skorne was already a major player in the RPG.

As someone who isn't familiar with the RPG, does that mean that events like the Siege of Corvis by the Skorne and the Invasion of Llael were in the RPG before they were printed in the MK1 books?

>>49799625

Well, the Siege of Corvis was. I think the Invasion of Llael was the kick-off event for MK1, though.

>>49799680

I thought the attack on Corvis happened after Llael was conquered?

>>49799625
The very first IK product written features the Skorne as a major enemy, dealing with the Siege of Corvis.

Skorne and their areas were also a huge focus of the second monster manual written for the setting.

>>49799680
The invasion of llael was the first mk1 expansion actually

>>49799699

Was Vinter, Saxon Orrik or Magnus anywhere in there?

>>49799740
Vinter featured in it as well, yes.

He meets someone, I don't remember who.

Wasn't the first IK fiction about Alexia?

>>49799845
Witchfire Trilogy, yes.

The third part of the story centers around the city of Corvis as it comes under siege by the Skorne.

>>49799879

I bet that was interesting.

Did they name Skorne Warbeasts specifically back then?

And for that matter, were any of the Skorne characters like Makeda, Xerxis, Rasheth or Hexeris seen back then?

>>49800223
nothing was that fleshed out and skorne chatacters were named later. Rasheth is a mkii creation

Lol why Menoth heavies are having such a tiny legs? Compared to their light counterpart those are like INCREDIBLY FUCKING TINY. And dervish being that thin? Really? What kind of a foul sorcery is that, my humble Menites?

>>49798206
What is that skorne model?

>>49800223
Most of the Skorne warbeasts are shown in the MM. Off the top of my head, the Drake, Krea, Hydra, Hounds, Titans, Cyclops, Mammoth, Razor Worms, Archidon and Rhindon are in there.

I don't remember if Pendrake actually met any of the named characters, but I don't remember them at all, so likely not. They might have gotten footnotes somewhere, like a lot of warmachine characters, but nothing substantial.

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>>49800308
Desert Hydra, Skorne's second gargossal. It's not out yet I think, but soon.

>>49800766
I lied about the Razorworm and Archidon.

God, this book is so good. Hydra, Chimera, Mazak Fruit, so much cool shit.

It's funny to see the old Mammoth too.

>>49800776
More dragon than the dragons in the setting

And now I read the Rhinodon entry and got sad

>Steady, Armor Piercing, bonus to charging and slamming, extremely difficult to kill.

I kind of want the Cephalyx to have a Gargossal. Maybe it's the Abomination to their Monstrosities?

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>>49800857
The dragons are for the most part pretty dragon-y. Ethrunbal kind of breaks the mold, and Toruk is pretty much just Super Godzilla with wings, but all the others we've seen have been your standard, albeit elemental, dragons.

>>49800959
>Forgetting the Chimera

Shame on you.

>>49801001
That's a colossal gibbering mouther

>>49801001
Isn't the Chimera just some kind of Riftbeast? Or maybe just an aspect of the Beast of Many Shapes that slipped over when the Elves blew up the world.

>>49801106
No, he's a retarded dragon. His athanc got damaged so his mind and body are at constant flux

>>49801106
>>49801031
Nope. Chimera is a dragon who was too close when the Bridge of Worlds blew up, and his athanc got damaged. He's now a mindless beast with all the powers of a dragon, who wanders the Marches murdering everything he finds. The other dragons won't fuck with it because they're afraid the damage would be passed along when they absorb it.

It's notably one of the very few things Skorne are legitimately terrified of.

>>49800857
Surprisingly, the desert hydra is almost insectoid in design. It practically has little millipede legs

>>49801197

>It's notably one of the very few things Skorne are legitimately terrified of.

On the note of that, how resistant are Dragons to magic or supernatural attacks like those of Void Spirits?

How did Mardrak lose the World Ender?

>>49801387
Kromac just took it. Pretty simple.

>>49801412
All that stuff about how it'll curse him forever and then someone just comes up and says "This is mine now lol"?
Well that's lame
Is he still alive?

>>49801431
Yeah, Kromac has some weird flashback and figures that he and Madrak were bros back in the day, and leaves him be.

>>49800223
I'm pretty sure the original Skorne big boys were Makeda, Morghoul, Hexeris, and Xerxis.

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>>49801343
So, IK dragons are less normal D&D dragons and more like super D&D outsiders.

Sample statblock from one of the weaker dragons.

>>49801343
>On the note of that, how resistant are Dragons to magic or supernatural attacks like those of Void Spirits?

About as resistant as they are to everything else.

>>49801491
This is accurate.

>>49801514
I forgot about those statblocks. Didn't one of the dragons have like +100 to oceanography or something?

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>>49801530

I thought they were more vulnerable to certain things?

Isn't the main weapon of the Hyperion supposed to have been one of the things that dealt a (temporary) defeat to Everblight when his lair was still in Ios?

>>49802007
The Hyperion's starburst cannon was built after Everblight was defeated specifically to deal with any future battles with dragons. And the starburst cannon isn't something dragons are "weak" to like dragon kryptonite or something, it's just a ridiculously powerful weapon designed to deal with ridiculously powerful enemies like dragons.

I think cold somewhat weakens dragons, but it's more like it weakens their regenerative abilities than anything else (Everblight's athanc was magically frozen on a mountaintop for a reason).

>>49801514
Aren't IK dragons more like eldritch abominations then traditional dragons?

>>49802007

The Hyperion isn't anti-dragon because it's specialised vs dragons. It's anti-dragon in the same way a nuke is anti-tank. You throw enough force at something and it will die.

>>49802337
We don't actually know what they are, just that they're not from caen or urcaen.

>>49802337
They're basically giant winged, flying narcissistic assholes with inborn god complexes that give off magical radiation that sickens, kills and/or horribly mutates everything around them, their very blood spawns horrible monsters, and their bodies contain a nigh-indestructible crystal from which they will regenerate if something actually manages to kill them.

Also, Toruk, the progenitor of all dragons, is insanely powerful when it comes to necromancy. He's the one who gave the Cryxians the secrets of necromancy and in Wrath of the Dragonfather, his mere presence was enough to cause the dead to rise en masse.

>>49802337

They're apparently creatures not of the Caen or Urcaen, much like Infernals.

As a result, they tend to taint in Caen that are in prolonged proximity to them.

>>49802398

*taint things in Caen.

>>49802392
The giants learned how impossible to destroy those crystals are one time when they finally managed to kill the dragon exterminating their entire race.

They took the crystal, broke it in two, and threw it into the biggest volcano they could find.

And now there are two dragons exterminating their entire race. Who are both very pissed about the whole splitting thing.

Well, not anymore.

>>49802460

I wonder what happens if you send an Anthanc to another world?

Like, say, throwing it into the portal behind Mordikaar or something of the like.

>>49802460

I thought the giants were busy playing whack-a-mole with the dragons?

>>49802392
Well, the crystal is their body. The dragon part is just a manifestation.

They're like Gems.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

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>yfw the Glacial King will never get played now that the MK has all the goodies

>>49802663
Fuck off already

>>49802663
And now a Sea King is coming. Why does a faction even need 3 gargantuans?

>>49802574
One of the last fluff books before the timeskip involved one of the twins getting eaten by Toruk. I think it was Char, but to be honest I can't remember

>>49802981
I think it will help vary up the factions some.

The gargs might become the Troll thing though. If you think of them as non-character heavies, it kind of makes more sense.

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Is that what this thing is?

Makes me wonder what the other Gargantuan are going to look like.

>>49803111
They've said they want to stop the whole "Everyone gets a Colossal/Garg" thing

It might not be a whole wave of Gargs, but just the Sea King.

>>49803073
You can only fit like 2 gargs in a list. Being the garg faction would suck because even if you have a ton of gargs, you can't take more than 2. Compared to heavy spam, which can let you take a variety of things.

>>49803111
>the boat looks like the head of a giant zombie dolphin eating its head
Thats pretty damn metal.

>>49803111
>>49803111
Didn't we have photos of the unpainted model floating around somewhere?

>>49803223
Just the in progress scale model, not the actual finished piece.

>>49802981
>Sea King
Between that and the elementaltrolls they sure are gunning for the pokekid audiance

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>>49803223

>Didn't we have photos of the unpainted model floating around somewhere?

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>>49803223
>>49803295

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>>49803223
>>49803295
>>49803311

>>49803339
>>49803295
>>49803311
At least its gonna look cool.

Is there any Skorne model that actually does the whole "counter punch" thing with any degree of effectiveness?

>>49803538
Zaal1 does it pretty damn well.

>>49803636

What does he do?

>>49804218

Some PP forum guy put it best: "Rewards the ability to lose half your army."

Just got introduced to this game today when i entered the wargame shop.
Saw some people playing the game and i picked up on the rules faster then i expected.
Ill pick up the 40 dollar pack for the faction with flames where should I go from there?

>>49804218
Zaal1's feat lets a model in his army boost an attack or damage roll for every model he's lost during the game. With models that can make multiple attacks, it can get pretty insane.

But Zaal's gameplan is usually to lost half his army and then win afterwards.

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Troll Rankings Mark 3 Edition
Warlocks
Best to Worst
3 Categories--Great, Playable, Trash


Great:
Ragnor
Madrak 2
Gunnbjorn

Playable:
Grissel 2
All Doomies
Borka 1
Calandra
Grim 2

Trash:
Borka 2
Grim 1
Grissel 1
Madrak 1
Skuld


*The above rankings are based on the current meta/state of Mark 3. Yes, I know Grim 1 can shred infantry but so what right now.

>>49804295

It also gets pretty insane if he's playing into his fluff and using skorne's statue units. They all have either vengeance, righteous vengeance, or if you kill them are replaced by something that is fast, incorporeal, and can buy attacks. Zaal1's probably the best assassination-engine you've never heard about.

>>49804483
And yet he's still nerfed on it because he can't do Karn shit.

>>49804578

>he can't do Karn shit.

Hasn't Karn be nerfed to the point where he isn't near about as useful as he used to be?

>>49804645
That's the problem.

In Mk2, Karn with Zaal was fucking terrifying, in Mk3, it doesn't do anything.

>>49803295
Finally, a troll model with good looking titties.

>>49804659

What is the best use for Karn now anyway?

>>49805158
Acting as a paperweight until errata arrives? Waiting for a resculpt where he is actually larger than medium based cyclops?

Someone convince me not to sell my models. I love WMH's setting, but I don't enjoy the game the same way that I used to.

>>49805158
As much as people rag on Makeda1, I think he's best with her.

She's got the ability to protect him with Shield guard, the ability to deliver him with Quicken, and Carnage can help him avoid boosts on an assassination run.

>>49805158
I used him with mak3 and he did pretty well.

>>49805158
Probably Xerxis2 - hit buff, spd buff, dmg buff, etc.

>>49805450
Protip: Xerxis2 is not the answer for anything. He's in the bottom 3 in the faction.

>>49805459
I know, there is a reason I suggested him.

>>49805450
It's funny how whenever people ask where a model or unit would work best in Skorne, most of the time I find myself replying with Xerxis1.

>>49805459
What about Xerxis2 + TyCom for those 11" sprints?

>>49807088
No.

>>49805249
What faction are you invested in?

>>49807088
Sprint is only useful if the distance is longer than your dick

>>49806394

Xerxis1 is probably still Skornes second best caster overall.

X1 was probably the best Skorne caster in MK2 and now he is only just below Rasheth.

He plays a very simple, straight forward game and is powerful at it. All the other Skorne casters basically get about 3/4ths of the way to playing the game they want to play but either just miss out on having the kit/models/points to do what they seem to want to do or what they want to do is so janky it's tough to make work.

Like, Naaresh seems to want to be a super attrition caster and he is almost there, except his ability to leverage his denial/attrition (his feat, Lamentation and his need to be whipped to get up to decent arm in the mid field) is hapered by his need to be in the mid field AND hurt himself to survive. So you end up whipping off half his health, restoring a tiny bit of it back and still being kind of vulnerable. Similarly, his feat requires you to have your beasts at least 3 health down for the effect to work. Simple fixes could make him do what he seems like he wants to do but he is just not really there.

Xerxis1 does exactly what he wants to do, has the pieces to pull it off and does it pretty powerfully. Always has. Dude is rock solid.

>>49808665
You know Naaresh's feat lets you damage the beasts, right?

You always get the +3/+3

>>49808665
>Implying Naaresh isn't best at sitting on flags since contesting in his turn is impossible

>>49804312
>tfw i only own madrak1 grim1 and grissel1

>>49804312
I don't think grissel 1 belongs there. Sure, she took a massive hit but her spells are worth casting now.

>>49804312
Can you share your lists for top3?

>>49807088
Doesn't work as he's a battle engine and not a warrior model/unit I'm pretty sure. He also can't be repaired any more. The only success I've had with X2 so far is, weirdly enough, proxying a hydra and going super deep with sandstorm up. Sadly he still dies half the time. Everything he has still isn't enough to keep him alive, even from relatively safe positions.

I want to try to run him more unit heavy, but I don't have the ferox, reivers, or any of that nonsense. That's probably one of Skorne's biggest problems right now. Unless you owned those models before, and why would you, you're looking at a ~200$ investment in a faction that still performs lack luster.

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>>49810884
Sure

Gunny
--Mountain King
--Dozer
--Bomber
--Winter Troll
--Storm Troll

Stone with UA min
Janissa


(I also have a build with the Knot/Lanyssa for wall shenanigans)


Madrak 2
--Mulg
--Bouncer

Fenns full with UA
Warders full
Warders full
Stone full
Fell Caller
SSC

Ragnor
--Mulg
--Mauler
--Dozer
--Bouncer

Horgle with Pyre
Lanyssa
Feralgeist
Stone full with UA
Fireeaters x 2

>>49808665
>Xerxis1 is probably still Skornes second best caster overall.

I just don't think he's up to the task. The poor guy *cannot* carry the faction on his back. All he can do is die trying. He would be a well-designed army supporting warlock except fury five, medium base, and nothing much to help him out. Trying to force him into the roll of faction-savior sets him up for failure.

Just put his spells and rules on Hexeris1 and marvel. On Xerxis1 it's tragic.

>>49811158
Erm is there any chance to use Gunbjorn without mountain king? I dislike gargossals.
And what does SSC mean?

>>49811308

Sure, just add another Bomber and then a Mauler. That will leave you some extra points for Whelps if you want. Even though he looks out of place with Gunny (the mauler), you need a damage fixer for your bombers when someone runs a Jugger in your face. That's why the Mountain King is so good with him, that 10" boosted spray is amazing..and he has a nice animus that helps your bombers/Dozer as well.

Stone Scribe Chronicler = SSC

>>49811427
Okay, thank you.

I thought that Janissa's new ability was sweet until I learned I can't place it under my models. Why would they put such a ridicolous restriction and how to make it work?

>>49812669
Because it causes some weird as shit interactions.

At a very basic level, you can put it on top of an enemy heavy, and then throw that heavy off the hill. Because they were elevated, you get extra damage.

There's also things where you can use it to elevate their warnoun so you get LOS on them, and then shoot them.

>>49812669
You walk on top of it after you cast it.

Bam.

>>49811158
>Running Dozer and Horgle with pyre on Ragnor
>Claiming to have any idea about what's good in trolls

Dozer is amazing but only on Gunny. And Horgle even is a steaming pile of shit, which I say with pain, as he is one of my favourite pieces. I know he is taken just as fury management for the pyre, which is also shit and is taken simply to shot the feralgeist (which is also shit) to set fireeaters on fire (which are amazing) but that's spending 14 points for a gimmick and they barely do anything outside of that.

>>49802981
>Sea King
Fuck that, I want a Volcano King dammit.

Also I think a third Gargossal for every faction would be just fine.

>>49811183
>I just don't think he's up to the task
He has Defender's Ward and 2 ways to increase a unit's damage. That alone makes him better than most Skorne casters. Cetrati are brutal with him.

>>49812789
Horgle is great on ragnor.
You dig him in while you have the damage buff which you stack with pyre animus.

Is Cygnar still legit in mk3?

Can someone post a tier list of all the warmahordes factions as of now?

>>49813327
Cygnar is the Top Tier Faction, but not the top Tier Caster.

Fucking Swans.

>>49813327
SOmething like

Top
Cyngar, Khador, Ret

High Mid
Convergence, Circle, Mercs

Mid
Minions, Legion, Trolls

Bottom
Cryx

Skorne
Skorne

I have an opportunity to purchase three Rhinodons for $100 Hamburglarbux

Yes?
No?
Fuck Yes?

>>49813327
>Stupid tier
Cygnar, Khador, Ret

>Good tier
Circle, Mercs, Menoth

>Average tier
Minions, Cryx, Convergence

>Bad tier
Trolls, Legion

>Designed in 20 minutes on the back of a handkerchief tier
Skorne

>>49812770
But that would make it good. As it is you probably will never use it because every place in your range is obstructed.

>>49813371
Nope. That's still $33.33 per rhinodon. Tell them to check back with you when it's $10 a pop.

One is plenty as a shelf warmer. I'm not expecting PP to work any miracles for them in the errata, either.

>>49813388
Why do you think trolls are bad?

>>49813544
It's Madrak2: the Faction.

>>49813388
Ehhhh...

Merge Average and Bad and drop Ret down to Good, and I'd agree.

I'm increasingly thinking Cygnar deserves to be alone in Cygnar tier above Khador alone in Khador tier. Also I tend to think Protectorate is better than normally given credit for if nothing else because they have more answers for Cygnar/Khador bullshit than everyone else.

>>49813732
Bullshit. Minions are far better than trolls and ret is the top faction to watch out for.

>>49813371
Why would you want 3 of them? Since their inception there's been little reason to take even one, esp. now. You'd be spending money on the odd hope that PP will fix it, and that it'd also be wroth spamming come January's errata.

So, real talk about the January errata.

What are we expecting?

The two big ones that make the most sense to me are:

- Adding "cannot be moved by a throw" to every instance of "cannot become knocked down" to fix a lot of the throw bullshit PP has specifically talked about.

- Making all instances of (non-caster-spell) cloud/forest dropping to both go away when the model is killed *and* follow the dropping model.

As both of these have fairly subtle changes to the game outside of top-tier competitive lists, and in and of themselves tone down some of the most bullshit lists.

Storm Lances probably go DEF 12. Might get the Lance rule, too.

Madrak2 and Wurmwood obviously get kicked in the dick. No idea how, though.

Either Sloan or Hunters get tweaked.

Winter Guard Rocketeers lose Brutal for Crit Brutal. Or maybe Joe's speeches will only apply to non-spray non-aoe attacks.

Lot of stuff needs to be buffed, but that's a whole lot harder to predict. Wouldn't surprise me if Heavy Warbeasts see a point cost reduction across the board.

>>49813867
To beat the rush to get them in January :P

>>49813892
First idea is stupid. So I can't grab and smash any of gorten or irusks' jacks?

>>49813371

Ok, let's dojo this out.

The strength of 3 Rhinodons would be in spammability. 3 heavies for 36 points, let's get this wall of meat going.

The strength of the Rhinodons themselves are in their animus to get their defensive stats up to "durable" while still being their 12-point selves. Let's pop that off three times, sight on some enemy models, and charge across the table. 3 19-ARM heavies going 8 inches, 36 points.

Also 9 fury, though. Kind of overwhelms the fury budget of anybody (4 fury left on table at turns end is what anybody other than freaks like Raseth and stat-oddities like Hexeris ought to be doing, mostly. The 7-fury Old Men are fragile, everyone else is 6 and 5.) So that's 7 points of beast handlers to make that stunt not cost you the next turn.


You do realize that you can have 3 natively 19-arm gladiators just run up the table 8 inches for 42 points? And they can actually *do things*?

>not even one, anon
>not even one

>>49813995
In a word, yeah. I don't think PP likes either the throw your own Steady model tricks (Super Snake, Amon Pinball) or that there's no real defense against throws in the whole game.

>>49813224

Yes, he does. That's part of the point. He wouldn't be singled out to save Skorne otherwise. But what he's being called on to do for his list is more than he's capable of accomplishing and living. It's a legit tragedy unfolding.

>>49814125
You say that like he isn't basically the same caster he was in Mk2 back when he was Skorne's strongest offering.

>>49814248

Outside of Fist he was in the end found to be assassination bait, don't succumb to nostalgia. What changed now is that cataphracts are just more things he needs to carry instead of things that can carry him and take some of the load.

>>49814304
Please, "Cataphracts" is a refundant term. Just say "Cetrati".

>>49814091
If they didn't like it they had 12 years to fix it.

Wait, what. Khador got way better in mk3 but for some reason they heavily nerfed drago which wasn't played to begin with.

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Help on this Cygnar list? Newcomer to Cygnar, was going to start with Stryker3, but have found it difficult to work up the motivation to *assemble* him with all of the gaps in that model.

So I'm going with Haley1 for now.

>>49814399
MOAR STORM LANCEZ

>>49814383
Eh, originally, wrastlin' robots was supposed to be how you played the game, but Mk1 didn't have many robots, and Mk2 didn't have many cases where it was worth doing as opposed to just killing the target, so the meta has been built on throws being rare for a long time. Now the game is getting to be more like it was originally designed in that respect and... now they don't like it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm expecting throws to get substantially weaker in the errata, although it will likely only seriously affect highly competitive play, since casuals don't throw.

Morghoul1 is better than xerxis. Why bother taking skorne infantry outsider of paingiver caste? Morghoul1 + Zaadesh with a bunch of beast handlers and maybe some bloodrunners and tormentors is all you need. All other skorne infantry options are garbage.

2 brutes are 16 points, giving you 44 arm 18 boxes with def 13, 15 vs charges. They're also speed 6. And they have shield guard.

6 cetrati are 20 points, giving you 30 boxes of arm 20 at speed 5, but they can't run or charge or they go to arm 16. Def 11. Literally the only reason to ever take cetrati is to have one unit on xerxis with d-ward, and even then you've got the speed issue to deal with. Brute can run 12 inches to be where it needs to be without any drawback, cetrati can only ever move 7 inches with a speed buff or else they're getting fucked up.

As soon as you enrage a cyclops brute it hits as hard as cetrati does, and it can buy attacks. And you can Abuse it to make it pow 16 speed 8. If it's under Zaadesh, pow 18 speed 8 with the same MAT as cetrati, or just pow 16 speed 6 if you're saving abuse for your heavies.

>>49814388
You think you have it bad? Your heart should be going out to Makeda1. She was only a mid tier Skorne caster in Mk2, but then:
>Lost Defender's Ward
>Lost Savagery
>Her spell slave was nerfed
>Her character beast was nerfed
>Her feat was hit so hard that for a while it left people thinking that all placement effects force you to lose your action because no one thought they'd actually single Makeda out for a nerf
And then they took away her combo strike just to rub it in. She went from mid tier in a below average faction to quite possibly the worst caster in the worst faction. Well second worst. Can't forget Morghoul2 exists.

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>>49814417
Hmm...

>>49814496
I like Brute+Savage. The extra point of damage and MAT can mean a lot, and while Future Sight is a disgracefully bad animus, if you happen to have it, you can find niches for it.

>>49814518
STILL NEED MOAR

THEY'RE FIELD ALLOWANCE 2 COME ON YOU CAN DO THIS

STORM LANCE SPAM AND THE REST OF YOUR POINTS ON CRACKING ARMOUR

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>>49814532

?

>>49814545
Welcome to Cygnar.

I really want to get into a war game and this one seems the least complex. How on earth are you supposed to pick a faction though? I tried Menoth but I don't like how you have to have the choir to make the jacks with shit. I'm good with either warmachine or hordes. I really like aggressive things and combat tricks in Magic the gathering if you can help me pick a faction.

Returning player from mkii who got into the game but couldn't get into it, started assembling some old unassembled models I got as a present and I got to thinking how much I love the cavalry aesthetic in the game.

Is Menoth Cavalry doable? Take steelheads with the priest attachment so they can get in on those buffs possibly?

>>49814591
>aggressive things
>combat tricks

Try Circle.

>>49814591
Skorne sounds perfect.

>>49814619
Looked at them and really thought about it. They look fun and i like the battle box caster for sure.

>>49814571
O...okay.

I actually have all of those models. Only one Storm Lances unit assembled so far.

>>49814603

Run Vengers with Kreoss3 or High Reclaimer. Both work really well with them; Kreoss3 can run one or two units, HR can run one. HR has an *insane* assassination threat range on feating back Vengers.

I feel as though control range being tied to fury is fucking stupid at this point.

>>49814652
I already own Kr3oss so I'll probably do that, just to keep the flavour going. I might pick up the High Reclaimer just so I can be decent at tournaments.

Are Steelheads a good addition or is that too much invested into fast attacks?

>>49814623
Now now, no suggesting Skorne to newbies.

>>49814644
If you want aggression and tricky combat and like their aesthetic, go Circle. They're above middle of the pack power-wise (see >>49813367 and >>49813388), like to run really aggressively, and are built on using movement shenanigans to get things done. While their best caster right now (Wurmwood) is pretty heavy into control, most of their other casters favor a really aggressive playstyle.

>>49814704
>>49814623
Thanks, I do like how they look for sure! Only other one i REALLY like the looks of is Skorne and I know they suck ass sadly.

>>49814704
A lot of Circle's power level is down to Wurmwood though.

>>49814591
well you could do what I did and rather than look at the stats look at the warnouns, units and what have you and look to see who has the fluff you like the best. honestly the starting cost for warmachine isn't that bad a battle box is roughly 35 Richard Nixon funbucks. and you have a good start from there im thinking of picking up the cryx one if for no other reason then to grab the Reaper and a cheap slayer and Bane Witch Agathia

>>49814675
You need the halbardiers to make the Steelhead cavalry really shine, and with only 1" reach on their charge attack, you have to be pretty close to use flank *well*, while Vengers get a passive S&P from just existing in Kreoss3's list.

Dual Vengers in Kreoss3 is fine, but past that (and especially since Steelhead cav is basically a two-unit investment), you're kinda overinvested. There's not much reason to take Steelheads over Vengers before Vengers run out of FA, and once you've got the two units of Vengers, Kreoss3 doesn't have a buff for the third cav unit.

And you don't really want to put a priest on cavalry anyway, as it seriously restricts their second-turn threat range (i.e., you lose out on range on the *next* turn if you run the cavalry to get into position).

>>49813371
So he's giving you 100$ if you take his Rhinodons? Sounds okay if you have a good was to dispose of them.

>>49813327
ACTUAL RANKINGS THAT MAKE SENSE

>broken tier
Cygnar, Wormwood

>good tier
Protectorate, Khador, Retribution, Convergence, Mercs, Rask

>okay tier
Legion, Madrak2, Cryx

>shit tier
Skorne

>>49815059
You made a couple of errors.

>broken tier
Storm Lances, Wormwood

>good tier
Protectorate, Behemoth, Ossyan, Convergence, Mercs, Rask

>okay tier
Legion, Madrak2, Cryx

>shit tier
Morghoul2

>>49814906
Doesn't the priest only attach to small or medium based units?

Newer Protectorate player here:
I'm currently running a casual Feora2 list and I'm asking myself if I should get some Cleanser with UA to go 75 points.
Are they worth it? Can I use them with other casters? I don't want to dump money into stuff that I can only use with one or two casters.

>>49799762
Orrin Midwinter

>>49815236
Ah, you are correct. Was following up on >>49814603 without checking if it was actually legal. Even if it were, it would be a bad idea.

>>49814906
Makes sense. What kind of Jacks Work good with Kr3oss?

I have a Redeemer, Repenter, Reckoner, Templar, 2 devout, and the Avatar.

>>49815663
also a vanquisher

>>49812789

I can tell you haven't tried it.

Early game he squats a zone, dug in, upkeeping hot shot until you decide to press the button on Fireeaters.

Late game

With a Fell Call, Horgle does:

4 MAT 8 POW 17 attacks
1 MAT 8 POW 16 attack
4 of those attacks have crit knockdown/ram

....for 4 points.....

>>49812789

I do accept your rebuke on Dozer though, you are likely right. Two Bouncers are simply better in that list but I want to play Dozer :).

>>49815663
>>49815714

Reckoner and Templar are pretty much universally good.

Since he has reliable knockdown (Force Hammer), Redeemers are good, too.

He also runs Idrians pretty well.

>>49816393
Why go for a Templar when you get a Crusader with almost identical stats for 5 less?

>>49816425
Crusaders don't have Shield Block or Reach and have 2 lower ARM.

I'm all in on Crusaders (My main list currently has 5 of them in it (and two Templars)), and generally think most Protectorate casters who don't specifically want certain jacks work really well with 2-3 of them, but the Templar is almost always worth its points.

I'd agree with you on Guardians, but Templars, man, Templars are good.

>>49816518
Non-jack related question, but what do you think about Flameguard Cleansers (with our without the UA).
Are they worth it? Can you field them with a lot of casters or only specific ones like Malekus or Feora?

>>49816657
Malekus, Feora, maybe Severious 1. I'm not sure I'd ever go with two units myself. They need buffs to even survive not to mention hit.

>>49816657
>>49816776

Err...High Reclaimer dude

>>49816657
I was hyped as fuck for them when Mk3 hit, but as the meta quickly evolved to the current jack-heavy state it's in I never bothered to assemble my box.

Their problem is that they're a really good answer to a question that is rarely asked.

>>49816872
Eh, I'd rather take good infantry with him. I'm pretty excited about running the new KE officer with him in particular, maybe even two or three

>>49816393
Made up a list using the models that I currently own, keep in mind I'm completely clueless on the meta right now.

Kreoss3 (Intercessor Kreoss) (-28 Pts.)
* Templar (15 Pts.)
* Hierophant (3 Pts.)
* Redeemer (11 Pts.)
* Devout (9 Pts.)
* Devout (9 Pts.)
Exemplar Vengers (Leader and 4) (20 Pts.)
Exemplar Vengers (Leader and 4) (20 Pts.)
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4) (16 Pts.)

>>49818086
Don't need two Devouts. Do you not have a Choir? If not, go get one *now*.

Bastions aren't as sexy as they used to be, and Kreoss3 doesn't do much with them, but if it's what you've got....

Definitely pick up Choir and Idrians + UA, both work is just about all Protectorate lists.

>>49818168
Right. I forgot about my choir, thanks for pointing that out.

I also have Cinerators, Knights exemplar, deliverers, and Knights Errant, if they're still as good as they used to be. On top of that I have senschals for My Errants, Bastions, and Knights.

I'll put Idrians on my list though, I've been wanting them for a while now anyhow.

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How big is this model? I want to use it as a Warhammer vampire and I'm not sure if it would fit the scale.

>>49818294
Bout 50ish mm tall

>>49818421
thanks anon

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I'm looking to pick up the MkIII 2-player set. While I'm mostly looking forward to the Cygnar units, I have no one to split the parts for Cryx. Are Bane Thralls still a decent choice? Also, are spider-jacks of use now, or are they still pointless?

>>49818239
Knights Exemplar just got a UA that dropped last week that makes them good.

>>49818822
I'm sold.

What's the UA

>>49818844
Gives granted cleave and tactics overtake, and minifeat divine inspiration. Five points

>>49818844
1/game S&P
Granted Cleave
Tactics Overtake

>>49818894
But she costs more than half the total unit cost. It's a 9 point 6 man unit and she's 5 points. Does nothing to improve their survivability, and cleave and overtake are both meaningless unless you're throwing these guys into infantry. Maybe with 2 inch range it'd be useful but it's just a bunch of 1 inch range weaponmasters that want to be put into a warjack like weaponmaster infantry should.

Cleave and overtake are only relevant vs infantry and if you want to kill infantry take daughters.

I hope PP has ceased work on the new Hordes Faction until they get Skorne back into the middle.

Fuck.

>>49820834
Its still being worked on. Skorne got errata and a Command book coming to catch up with.

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>New players at the game shop
>Hear one of the vet Warmahordes players tell newer players they need to play scenario to make the game a bit more balanced
>Next week stop by and see them playing Steamroller, one guy looks pretty despondent
>He's playing against a Menoth gun line on Line Breaker

Why the fucking gun lines this edition? This game is starting to look like 40k now with everyone measuring out their long range guns to continue to blow shit away. Just fucking awful.

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>>49818736
banes are in a bad spot right now. in addition to nerfs across the board they suffer from the fact that a lot of them will get shot to shit before they can really do work, Satyxis are good and they just released a 3 man gun mage unit, so now we have some halfway decent shooting options for units. the crab jacks are pretty good for the most part, the leviathan took a hit in terms of reliable shooting you need to roll a D3 to see how many shots you get, the desacator is pretty situational but has a nifty bonus if you bring it with banes, the harrower is probably the best crabjack ATM it threshers, can collect souls, you can spend a soul token to ignore LOS, concealment and cover. Also, the attack and damage rolls are boosted. and it has quick work.

get some Satyxis, think about the banes there not super terrible but there not the spam machine they were in mk.2thank god, I always like the Satyxis better anyway, and crabjacks are a decent option with the harrower at the top of my personal list.

>>49821150
I think they didn't realize how powerful the gunlines had gotten. It's very likely a lot of them are going to take hits in the errata.

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>>49821150
Because PP has difficulty trying to find a proper balance between ranged and melee (and infantry vs 'jacks/beasts too). Just look at Cygnar's Trenchers and Long Gunners. MkI, they were kings of the table. MkII, they were overpriced and under-powered, and there was little justification to take them besides fitting a theme (list or aesthetic). Now we've hit MkIII and they're amazing again.

When range succeeds, melee is often dead before they can close the distance. When melee reigns, ranged units might be able to blow one load in their face before getting ripped apart wholesale. Now, this isn't to say that there aren't/haven't been outliers in each edition. But MkIII seems to be focused on range, and melee units will have difficulty handling this until/if PP does anything about it.

>>49821593
To be fair, I don't think Trenchers really showcase the ranged problems. They're a good unit, most certainly, but they're not WGRC with Joe.

>>49821593
A lot of the issue is that they nerfed a lot of the defensive tech against ranged. Decel, Krea, things like that that got hit. Power Up had a huge side effect on ranged as well.

>>49821593
Long Gunners are still widely considered trash with the possible exception of Haley1.

Trenchers are good now becuase they got a bunch of stat buffs, got better at melee, and got cheaper. Their shooting is still a marginal threat.

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>>49821606
Mostly used them for the prevalence of MkI hate for them. Not too surprising that Khador traded one Deathstar for another.

>>49821622
And that's the big issue. I get that PP wanted to improve the capability and value of ranged units in the game (because honestly, how many dedicated ranged units actually got taken routinely in MkII?), but in their nerfs they managed to overshoot their expectation and signed a death warrant for melee units. Hopefully they've realized their mistake and dial it back halfway (give or take), but it is incredibly painful for melee users in the meantime.

>>49821401

Why did they nerf Banes and Thralls like they did?

Those are the back bone of Cryx aren't they?

Anybody have that perfect with fire trilogy?

>>49821838
They nerfed the models that were overly dominant in the meta, and maybe buffed the models that were under-performing. At least, that was PP's intention. Tell me with a straight face that Cryx in mk2, especially towards the end wasn't just BANEZTOWN, population: BANEZ. Maybe that's what warmachine is always going to be, because even in mk3 its pretty much just MOAR STORMLANCES and MOAR SENTINALS.

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>>49821838
I imagine it was because Bane Thralls were a one-size-fits-all melee unit more effective than nearly every other unit in the Cryx arsenal (Satyxis are up there too). Nine times out of ten, if you had a problem you could solve it simply by applying more Banes to it. And it wasn't even a tasteful, entertaining, or thoughtful spam either (like Doom Reavers). Banes were a simple and brutal application of power that few armies could handle effectively.

>>49821838
Cryx as a whole got the boot hard style. I can sort of see why they did it for the most part. we got pigeon holed so everyone would spam banes at the expense of other troop choices, the problem is they nerfed too hard, guns are a thing this edition ,there trying to focus more on the jacks which is fine but cryx jacks are glass cannons.

>>49821977
>>49821993
>>49822001

They also nerfed Mechanitralls, Bile Thralls and Brute Thralls too didn't they?

>>49822117
EVERYTHING got the boot.

mechs defense is down, as is the POW of their steam fist.

biles CMD became a bit smaller. The Purge attack is now a pure spray attack with the same stats.

>>49822253

What about the War Witch?

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>>49822296
The Siren has now a slightly increased MAT, but she has lost one point of DEF. Her CMD has almost been halved . her magic ability has now 6. shadowbind is also shakable now

>>49821977
>>49821993
>>49822001
>>49822253
>>49822340

Were they trying to get Cryx players to take the Satyxis and Pirate Units and Solos more or something?

>>49822464
diversify in general

Fluff question: I'm GMing the IK RPG and I've got one question. How likely is the "Thamar sold the Elven gods to the Infernals so humans could use magic" theory? From everything we've seen, the Retribution are kinda full of shit given that killing humans hasn't done jack shit to help Scyrah.

>>49822474
50% 50%.

You have to remember that ancient history, especially divine ones are heavily biased and contradictory on purpose in the setting.

Elves are working off of correlation, not causation.

>>49822474
It was meant to be one of those plot points you could explore as a GM yourself. There is no actual answer.

>>49822474
from what I remember its a valid theory. Thamar made a deal with the infernals to get humanity magic. what the deal was is never said hence the theory. also keep in mind the whole thing with Scyrah is complicated, like about how goreshade was on the right track according to nyssior but he's going about the plan all wrong.

>>49822536
The whole thing with Goreshade makes me think he's in the right when it comes to all the elven gods.

According to the IK core book, the infernal pact theory is one of many that philosophers and theologians debate over, and it's really only popular amongst some Thamarite cults.

Do we know any of the lore concerning the time skip?

>>49822502
I've heard the Retribution worldview as being like that of a /pol/ack who sees loose correlations between Jews and bad things happening and due to already hating Jews he immediately blames the Jews for the bad thing and decides to become a neo-nazi

>>49822557
Nothing beyond the fact that it's very likely Goreshade will next be a Ret caster, and the fallout from the books.

>>49822566
Pretty much. Ios was not a friendly country by any stretch even before Ret came to the fore, with the general philosophy of simply murdering any non-elf they found close by.

They were isolationist to the extreme before the events of Warmachine.

>>49822683

They must have had considerable military assets tied in with the Retribution.

It doesn't seem like they're doing much to handle the Skorne issue.

>>49822713
They kind of had, but there was a combo of Skorne using a bluff to draw a lot of military assets away and the fact that Ios was so sure of their walls(they held against fucking everything before, after all) that they didn't think the Skorne could actually do something.

I mean, they thought of the Skorne as being practically cavemen, you don't expect cavemen to show up with an army big enough to blow a hole in a wall that's stood for thousands of years.

>>49822730
Neither did Skorne considering that the gate was only opened up by blowing up a mammoth

>>49822752
Dropping a Mammoth, really.

That entire scene is still one of the best things to come out of a fluff book by PP.

>>49822761
probably one of the more controversial one as well.

>>49822730

So I'm assuming they were, and probably still are, entirely unfamiliar with innovations such as Mortitheurgy and the slew of other baleful arts that make the Skorne warmachine possible?

>>49822795
I'm sure in three years they did a lot of catching up.

>>49822795
Cavemen magic. Magic isn't anything special in the setting while at the same time, not common either. Hell, even dumbass cyclopses can use magic.

>>49822818
>I CAN SEE THE FUTURE!

>>49822818

Haven't they learned by now that Immoren has very dangerous cave men?

>>49813367
Wurmwood deserves his own individual spot in Top Tier, with the rest of Circle sitting in High Mid. Otherwise spot-on.

>>49822871
They are knife ears, they don't learn shit.

Elves in this setting obviously take WIS as their dumpstat.

>>49822818
>DAKAR: UM VOID SEER IS THERE A REASON THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY BOTH EXPOSING AND TOUCHING YOURSELF

>MORDIKAAR: IT'S MORTITHEURGY DON'T QUESTION IT

This is the only way I can see Skorne magic now.

>>49822557

Flashpoint and Mark of Caine are the only post time skip novels so far. I've only read Flashpoint but it's an important setup for where Cygnar and Khador stand in Mk3

>Empress of Khador and King Julius sign a treaty that ends hostilities between Cygnar and Khador. Khador gets to keep Llael(unless an heir to the Llaelese throne is found), but must also withdraw from the Thornwood and Northguard
>Empress marries Vlad, uniting the eastern peoples with the main body of Khador once and for all, also provides Khador with a stronger claim to Llael because of Vlad's heritage
>Julius to marry the previously hidden niece of the deceased Llaelese king, meaning Llael becomes a Cygnaran puppet state, and that their children will be heirs to both kingdoms
>Khador refuses to acknowledge the princess as a legitimate heir, and Cygnar uses this to lawfully go to war with Khador for breaking the terms of the treaty
>Magnus given the title of General, much to everyone's chagrin
>Stryker bitches and sulks about Magnus for the whole book, Maddox provides useful advice, which is usually ignored
>Cygnar takes Riversmet from Khador, which Khador immediately tries to take back with a large cavalry force led by Vlad and Harkevich
>Stryker tries to beat Vlad fairly, but is getting his ass kicked before Magnus detonates an illegal chemical weapon in the middle of the Khadoran army, killing thousands of Khadorans in a gruesome death
>Stryker almost court martials Magnus, but is forced to realize that Magnus' war crime saved thousands of Cygnaran lives and civilians
>Stryker reluctantly gives Magnus the choice of a swift execution, or providing Stryker with his experience and strategical advice but with the demotion to Major and being kept on a very short leash
>Cygnar marches on to Rynyr to have a rematch with Vlad

>>49822960
I love Magnus in this

>I have spent years and years working on a plan that will enable me to rejoin Cyngar. This plan has worked because I am intelligent, resourceful, and driven.
>Now I have gained my post back, despite the objections of the others in the military, to include the man I have a very bad blood with, and who would love to see me dead.
>My first act as general will thus be terrible warcrimes that I know for a fact will piss off everyone else
>This is an incredible plan.

>>49823066


Really Magnus only had to do terrible things to make up for the pitfalls of Stryker always taking the high road. If Stryker didn't let Harkevich go then they would have been able to fortify Riversmet and reliably repel the Khadoran army as Vlad's forces was not suited for a siege. This is further emphasized by the fact that every time Magnus has an idea, any other military commander other than Stryker agrees with him and then tries to convince Stryker that it's a good, if morally distasteful, plan. Really Magnus' only real mistake was allowing criminals and mercenaries to be his officers, which blew up in his face big time.

Fuck Magnus came up with the whole invasion plan to begin with, Stryker and Warmaster Ebonheart just wanted to march straight to the Llaelese capital and didn't even realize that Vlad's forces could prepare it for a siege in less than a day.

>>49823066
And yet:
>Stryker: Magnus y u do warcrimes tho?
>Magnus: Because my warcrimes killed all those Khadorans that we were planning to kill anyway, while saving hundreds of our own troops AND hundreds of civilian lives, AND probably saving the war effort as a whole because Vlad was about to push your shit in.
>Magnus: You mad bro?
>Stryker: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>49823196

I'll also add that Magnus' use of illegal chemicals meant that there were zero civilian casualties, and he saved the Cygnaran army from being obliterated by Vlad's host of cavalry.

Stryker wanted to save his countrymen, keep the people of Llael safe, AND defeat the Khadorans fair and square. Magnus and Maddox realize that war isn't so squeeky and clean and they spend the entire book trying to get this through the thick, red haired, head of the LORD FUCKING GENERAL OF CYGNAR.

>>49823235
Also don't forget that the chemical weapons Magnus used were the same ones the Khadorans used to booby-trap the bridge into the city, and the only reason they didn't detonate them all over Stryker's smarmy face is because Magnus went behind enemy lines to disarm the bombs.

So really Khador set the precedent for chemical warfare, it's not Magnus' fault they're bad at it.

Jesus fucking christ what is wrong with Cygnar and Khador

>two godlike dragons spreading undead and/or lovecraftian abominations from the west and the north
>a ton of religious fanatics trying to convert everyone by the sword
>a ton of religious fanatics trying to kill all humans because their gods are dying and they have no souls
>a bunch of psychotic cenobites trying to kill everything for the fun of it
>so let's just fight over a tiny scrap of land with our neighbor for all eternity rather than, you know, prevent the multiple apocalypses waiting to happen on our doorstep

>>49823508
Look at modern day real politics. Do you think actual factual priorities matter?

>>49822761
It's one of the worst written pieces of story I've read in years. Not simply because the whole "drop a mammoth on a giant building" bit, but because the very pacing and structure is just atrociously clunky.

>>49823508
They teamed up to punch Cryx in the mouth when they got too uppity in the Thornwood, but attacking mainland Cryx is impossible because of Toruk.

As for everything else, they're pretty much too small for Cygnar and Khador to really give a shit. The Protectorate's time as an existential threat to Cygnar passed when Voyle died, Everblight doesn't have anywhere near enough forces to tangle with a major nation, ditto the Cephalyx, and Ret just got done getting asspounded by Skorne on top of having logistical issues deploying armies very far beyond their own borders.

>>49823508
I don't think they always cover just how much Cyngar and Khador fucking hate the shit out of each other.

They've been at each others throats for fucking centuries, and utterly despise each other. Add that to the fact that for a very long time Cryx wasn't doing shit and all the other threats are brand new, and you get two nations who wouldn't trust the other to not shit in the food they're sharing just to spite the other.

>>49821150
Before Mk3 was released everyone was saying that free measuring will make gunlines too powerful. I wish PP had taken notes.

>>49815129
I swear that if with January Errata PP nerf wurmwood and doesn't solve gunline in some way I quit warmachine.

>>49824845
I don't think premeasuring is the problem here, it's more that the most ubiquitous shooters weren't nerfed for the most part, while most everything else was.

>>49815129
>Storm Lance meme
They're not carrying the faction. Haley is.

>>49820834
Skorne is a faction of sold models. The new faction is a faction of yet to sell models. Where do you think their priorities will lie?

>>49824893
Haley could have Tk her feat and still she will be one of the strongest caster in the game.

The feat nerf is really stupid if you consider her 18" Control Area with the squire.

>>49824924
Fuck.

>>49817395
Are they really that good against infantry? The RAT 5 on a spray looks kinda weak. With the UA you can assault + minifeat for a rather impressive threat range of 18" with their flamethrowers, but the low RAT is really a turn off for me or is it a smaller issue than I think?

>>49825213
Nah they're pretty bad. Only real use is with Malekus for surprise weaponmaster on a kd target.

>>49825213
The low RAT is not that bad once you consider what you'll be sending them against. Cleansers are very good against tar pit infantry and - if you can maneuver them into a decent charging position - quite effective against usually fairly vulnerable gunline infantry.

Defenses there very rarely go higher than 14, most commonly 12. Combined with the fact that sprays hit multiple models and that you can make additional melee attacks on assault, they don't really have a problem cleaning out most units.

Just don't send them against very high ARM targets and you'll be fine.

>>49825316
Varies with your local meta I'd say. Around where I live, people still run quite a bit of infantry, and that's where Cleansers still do a good job.

Although I agree that if your meta has already switched to jack heavy lists with barely any units, they're bad.

>>49825213
HR can pretty much place them wherever he wants and then they go to RAT7. That's pretty damn solid.

>>49824893
Storm Lances ensure that any points your opponent spends on infantry are wasted points. Then beyond that they can just jam.

>>49825437
That's not Storm Lances. That's Mk3.

>>49825437
Correction :
> any points your opponent spends on infantry that can't deal with heavy are wasted points.

>>49825451
Infantry isn't wasted points if it's MAT7 with weaponmaster, because you can just throw them at heavies and kill them. Here's the way it works:

Infantry > WM Infantry > Heavies

BUT

Infantry !> Heavies

So if you bring infantry that can't deal with heavies and your opponent has no WM infantry, you've wasted 16 points on a unit.

Protip, Skorne has no cheap WM infantry.

>>49822960
>>49823066
>implying Coleman "The Final Solution to the Menite Question" Stryker can ever act morally superior

>>49825316
How good are they against Stormblade Infantry, Gunmages and Bane Warriors? That's what I'm currently facing most of the time

>>49825386
I don't have the High Reclaimer though....

>>49825517
And that has what exactly to do with my post?

>>49825629
Cleansers can deal with Stormblades and Bane Warriors just fine, as long as you keep them out of their charge range or charge first. Gunmages might outgun them with Snipe if you don't have a screener between them or a caster that can create cover/ashen veil

Does anyone have the witchfire trilogy?

A hearty hello good sirs. I am new to wargames and was looking to get into warmahordes
Thinking about skorne becasue they look cool as fuck.
what warlock should i use to not be a fuck up?

>>49826438
Ahm about that. You might want to take a look at another faction.

>>49826463
Alright then. what would you recommend?

>>49826438
Or wait a few months, possibly a year. PP fucked up big time with the new edition and Skorne is complete shit now til they errata it.

>>49826477
Anything else really. See, we just entered a new edition and Skorne is frankly quite fucked right now due to balancing mistakes. Sorry.

>>49826497
>>49826490
Well thats unfortunate. I wanted to whip some baby elephant people.
Any chance for a quick and dirty on the new shit? as far as play style and such?

>>49826516
If you are the gambling type, you could probably pick up Skorne stuff second-hand for stupidly low prices, as people are desperate to unload their stuff as they jump ship.

Since you're new, you might not feel quite so hobbled by Skorne, as a fair bit of our issues with the faction stem from knowing their strengths and weaknesses from the previous edition, and being baffled at PP's handling of them in the transition to mk3.

PP has said that they realize that they fucked up pretty hard, and the faction is going to be one of the things they strive to address in the upcoming erratas, balances, etc. So if you want to bank on them recovering from their current state though I admit that I don't trust PP to know how, since they already fucked them up this bad in the first place, now would be the time to buy in. For all the shit I give them now, they are still far and away my favorite faction in the game.

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>>49826516
Honestly, this tier list has it down fairly well >>49813367 Almost every faction is actually doing decently in terms of power, but Cryx and Skorne are in a bad way. Skorne was (we hope) accidental, but Cryx was intentionally nerfed due to how well the faction performed in MkII. It probably does still have its merits, but players are still figuring out what works after years of Banespamming.

The game right now is focused largely on the spam of heavy warjacks/beasts, and favors ranged infantry over melee. Melee infantry can still succeed, particularly if they have the Weapon Master quality, but many do not, and many cannot close the distance with ranged units safely.

If you want to play it safe+easy (or just want to win), Cygnar and/or Khador are your friend. If you want some flavor and challenge, any other faction but Cryx and Skorne will work. If you really want to struggle, go Cryx. If you want something nice to paint til errata comes in, only then choose Skorne.

>>49826516
>Any chance for a quick and dirty on the new shit? as far as play style and such?
Skorne used to be a mostly melee-focused army that relied on layering buffs on your units to make them much more useful than they seemed at first glance. One example of this was being shockingly good at securing the alpha-strike, despite having dogshit slow speed values on most of their heavy warbeasts, and hit far above their grade after you stack 2-3 damage buffs on them. It was not unheard of for the broneback titan to one-round a colossal (and with good rolls, possibly even scrap two in one turn), or Molik Karn to fly across the table thanks to speed buffs and special rules, and assassinate a caster from over 20" away.

However, Privateer wants them to be the counterpunch faction, where they weather the alpha-strike, and hit back hard. Unfortunately, Skorne's defenses, armor, and assorted support pieces have all been nerfed in various ways that make it extremely unlikely that you will be able to meaningfully retaliate after the enemy hits first and has his way with your army.

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>>49813371
So he's offering you 3 Rhinodons for about $12 off each ($45 MSRP new), despite the fact that Rhinodons have never really been spammable, and Skorne is effectively unplayable right now.

I'd tell him to either lower his price or fuck off. He's probably desperate to get off the Skorne boat, but the $100 price tag gives me the impression he is still looking to make an easy buck off someone.

>>49826653
>>49826701
Thank you. As Khador was my 2nd choice I'm not even mad about Skorne. So seeing as how im a helpless little shit. Ive read that Khador jacks are shit ( granted that could be from mk2)
what would a khador army look like?

>>49826885
Khador is pretty much the opposite of Skorne. Mk3 fixed almost all of their problems. Hardly anything in the faction is bad and some things are downright ridiculous. They can spam jacks with the best and their infantry is still good.

>>49826885
>Ive read that Khador jacks are shit ( granted that could be from mk2)
Absolutely mk2 talking, there. Jacks are very popular in mk3 right now, due to a mix of giving them what is effectively a free focus (taking strain off the caster), and being largely undeterred by ranged infantry, which are a popular option at the moment.

>>49826984
What about the spriggan? Can i lance a mother fucker?

>>49827050
He was among the most popular Khador jacks in Mk2. I heard he got worse, but that is hardly surprising. Should still be usable.

>>49827048
>>49827086
So if what I've read serves me right. Your army make up greatly depends on the warcaster. so what am i looking at? Jacks with some range back up with support units or what

>>49827212
If you want a spriggan, I think Strakov might be who you want to look at as a caster (not a Khador player, so I'm going off old info, here). If you want to run as many jacks as you can pack into a list, Karchev the Terrible is probably the guy for you.

I guess it depends on what you want your army to look like. Jack-heavy, infantry-heavy, a mix of the two, combined arms, etc.? Once you have an idea of that, then you can find the casters that best support that type of army. Once you expand your model collection, and know the game better, you can then choose a caster and build your army around them, instead.

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>>49827271
Sage like advice. I think Khador jacks are really fucking neat. so i guess ill start getting a few

>>49827271
Honestly, it would probably be best to just get the Khador battle box. It's comparatively cheap and the stuff in it will last you for quite some time.

>>49827086
What makes the Spriggan good? I honestly can't see it. All I see is a Jack with a single decent melee attack and a ranged gimmick gun but without Assault. The launcher is nice, he has good ARM and the lance packs a punch, he just seems very overcosted to me.

>>49826247
If no one has covered it I'll upload it tonight

>>49827501
Spriggan is meh. The flares are nice but he's probably overcosted compared to all the cheap beatsticks Khador has.

>>49827212
Behemoth is incredibly good and goes with everybody. Juggernauts are so cheap you can't really go wrong with them. The character Jacks are very solid.

Awright blokes. I got a friend who wants me to get back into this crap, and I'm trying to decide what to do.

I have a small handful of Retribution figures. LIke, a dozen, maybe two, primarily picked by rule of cool.

I have literally shitloads and shitloads of legion that I havent touched in years, since early MKII. Was fully emotionally and mentally prepared to throw them on ebay.

He's desperate for me to keep legion. Like, seriously trying to convince me to keep them in a huge way. Did they get nerfed that bad?

>>49827690
Not really. Legion wasn't particularly nerfed more than other factions. They have a lot of really effective stuff in mk3.

>>49813388
I think this is a much more accurate representation of where Cryx is. Mid tier, average, (imo) boring and flavorless.

They should still be good since its still somewhat of a high armor meta, but the rebalancing was such a clumsy hatchet job that its tough to get into the fight. Plus our casters took a very extreem hit. I'm like tepidly interested in how they going to "fix cryx's problems with gunlines" but I have less faith in PP than I do with GW so who knows what could happen. At least 9th age is fun

>>49827960
Gapsy2 and Deneghra2 got slaughtered, but Cryx still has a lot of very powerful casters. Deneghra1 feels as ball busting as she's always been.

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>>49827690
Legion can still hold its own in MkIII, and they continue to get effective additions to their arsenal. The only faction that is in freefall is Skorne, and while Cryx got kneecapped they're not out of the game yet (for better or worse).

>>49798206
>"Tiny man, help me get APPLES"

>>49827960
That's not really fair. There was a lot wrong with mk3, but for all of its flaws, it's still better balanced than many wargames. The gap between Skorne and the other factions is still a shitload smaller than say, Orks and every other faction.

>>49822470
Cryx was not just MOAR BANZ in MKII, the internal balance between banes, satyxis and McThralls was actually pretty even. Additionally, biles were really only taken with Lich2 and rarely terminus (i never ran them really w/ scaverous).

With the mkiii shift, McThralls and bane thralls have become significantly worse, with knights relativly untouched. Idk if Raiders are particularly good, I think they had a minor nerf and blood witches are really great. Plus, they didnt buff other units that were cornercases (gorgers) or awful like the pirates so list building has become much less diverse.

Cryx really only has issues delivering itself, if they get some of those tools back they'll be fine, and a natural counter to jack spam.

What we really need is a counter to gunlines that isn't another gunline.

Give me Mk2 Lucant back and gunlines would be hating life

>>49826701
What is it with the Ghordson clan and that weird toilet bowl armor?

>>49828124
>I think they had a minor nerf

Lack of Advance Deploy and constant Pathfinder means they aren't as good for jamming and the loss of the minifeat hurts, but Gang means they're better at killing infantry and light 'Jacks on turns where you weren't using your minifeat. On the whole I'd call it a wash, but Satyxis (whether that's Raiders, Witches, or Gunslingers) are about the only good infantry we have left so they're all that's taken. It makes them look better than they are.

>>49828104
I don't agree at all. For example, ATM 9th Age has excellent balance, and a very quick turn arround with regards to questions of imbalance. With regards to Orks- the GW codex system is much different than PPs in that they only release rules maybe once or twice a decade. For Orks its just a matter of aging poorly, wich is unfortunate. I much prefer PP's system of dropping all rules at once.

The entire mkiii roll out was and continues to be a giant unprofessional cluster fuck and its really put me off the system. It makes the whole process feel rushed, unfocused, vindictive and sloppy.

>>49828195
I still think bane knights are good. They have the same output on the charge and are still the fastest infantry option.

I'm still assblasted that our infantry is not cheap compared to other armies, and that cryx isnt better at magic

>>49828267
If you think GW gives two shits about anything resembling balance you're insane.

>>49828267
>vindictive
?

>>49828267
The new Ork codex was shit out the door. Arguably worse than the old dex.

And Skorne can still place in high level events, so they aren't that bad.

The big thing about MK3 is that it was a PR disaster. Of the devs, Hungerford is the only one who knows how to talk to the community, and their response to the card leaks was incredibly terrible.

Really, a combo of feeling less like an edition change and more like a meta shift combined with the way PP handled the release was big complaint about MK3. Skorne was the only super bad fuck up.

>>49828321
GW does not care about balance, but I never said that they did. Rules are secondary to models.

>>49828338
The way cryx and legion were handled gives the impression that the devs were not impartial when rebalancing. Did they diserve a nerf? Yes. This hard? I dont think so.

>>49828584
Legion isn't that damned nerfed. Yea, some of their casters took hits, but they're still plenty competitive. And Cryx is just a few tools short of being capable of dealing, they just need some tools to survive gun lines.

>>49828584
After more than a decade of WoW balance changes and other similar games you'd think people would learn not to attribute the results of balance changes to malice.

>>49828678
I would only attribute lich2 to malice

>>49828629

Hordes warbeasts all get recosted and you won't notice any problems with Legion.

>>49827690

Definitely more nerds than buffs, but the faction is in a decent spot.

Biggest hits were the Carney chassis getting slower by 1, the loss of Tenacity, nerfed power casters, and the eyeless sight rework.

On the flip side Bethayne and Lylyth 3 are in good spots, and Abby2 and Kallus are still good. Swordsmen and Grotesques don't suck anymore. Hellmouth is great, but it's not an auto include in every list like people seem to think.

Not as high tier as last edition, but Legion could have fallen a lot worse.

Reminder that Skorne was broken in Mk2 but the Basilisk Krea managed to glue some of the cracks together, and what we're seeing now is Mk2 Skorne without the Krea.

>>49829216
Worse than mk2 too because their beasts lost DEF.

>>49829253
I'm not too annoyed by the DEF nerf because the Gladiator and Cannoneer got sweet buffs elsewhere, and the Agonizer can skew their ARM. But the Agonizer does nothing to stop Ozzy popping his feat and lasering your army off the table.

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>>49798206
>Struggling to write and Iron Kingdoms Campaign

Please help Warmahordes General. I need inspiration.

>>49829450
Do you have their character sheets yet?

Also, continue this in the new thread.

>>49829450
Underdog story about Skorne beating a tag team of Khador, Cygnar, and Ret.

>>49829304
I can understand the nerf, 12/19 was the best heavy stat line in the game. Just in context of everything else it hurt so much more

>>49829687
>12/19 was the best heavy stat line in the game
So? Something has to have the best heavy stat line. Might as well have it in the game's worst faction so you can at least claim it's the faction of heavies.

>>49829462
>Do you have their character sheets yet?
Yes.

An Iron Fang/SoldierHuman
An Investgator / Marksman Trollkin
An Explorer/Pirate Nyss
And a tbc Warlock

>>49830060
>>49830060
>>49830060

NEW THREAD
GOODBYE OLD THREAD

>>49821656
One of my friends uses long gunners with Siege for double tapping pow 20 CRAs on feat and that's pretty effective.