If you could change one MAJOR thing about 40K, what would it

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>>49792558
>Chaos
>Edgy

Anon the acolyte Cultists are the only edgy thing about Chaos. Everything else fits perfectly fine and even makes the Chaos Gods mandator y for everyone else to function.

Now hush.

>>49792594

there is nothing about the setting that makes the chaos gods necessary, outside what GW put in there specifically to make them important and relevant to a scifi world.


And yes, they are edgy. "hurr we are chaos and thus EXTREEEEEME, everything we do is unbalanced and incredibly single minded, because CHAOOOOS"


it's retarded and pointless in a scifi setting. there is plenty of threat and story potential without chaos.

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>>49792558
Hmm.
Take Space Marines back to their early third edition power level.
That's pretty much it, honestly. Other than that, I like 40k pretty well, warts and all.

>>49792628
>Chaos Gods
>EXTREEEEMEE xD

Anon did a CSM touch you when you were a child? Because you're bitching over nothing.

The Chaos Gods are the balance of universal forces along with emotions.

Without Tzeentch nothing woild be done, no imagination or invention.

Without Khorne there would be no strength, no ability to fight.

Without Nutgle there would be no stability, nothing would last or survive beyond mere seconds.

Without Slaanesh, emotions would be flat and without color.

Yes some cult Chapters are stupid, and maybe even 'edgy', but any other Legions are just Space Marines under a different doctrine.

Take out Chaos and the Warp and you have generic Sci-fi Setting #4.

I'm not really into 40k but if there is one change that could bring me into it - it would be a change in tone.

Rather than grim dark science fantasy with ridiculous over-the-top nonsense, I would like a more grounded science fiction that focuses on the imperial guard and their struggles.

But I understand that that isn't the point of 40k. Orks, overbearing religious zealotry, spess marines, and ridiculous weaponry are why people like 40k - it just doesn't do anything for me.

>>49792688

you literally don't even know how the chaos gods work.

The gods are a REFLECTION of the material world. not the cause of anything.

the gods were CREATED by pre=existing thoughts and feelings in the material world, of all the living beings with a warp presence.


The chaos gods DIDN'T EVEN EXIST for most of the warp's existence(at least not in a way significant enough to effect anything). in the time of the old ones there were no chaos gods.


WE create the chaos gods, not the other way around. Nurgle is not the source of all plauge, Khorne is not the source of violence, etc.

this is proven by the fact the Eldar single handedly birthed an entirely new Chaos god with their endless pleasure seeking. they were not being affected by Slaanesh, they MADE slanesh.


The chaos gods are nothing but a reflection in the warp of the state of the material realm's beings and their mindsets. they do not create or generate jack shit.

>>49792558
More attention towards abhumans like Squats & Ratlings. More Hrud & Rak'Gol. Less Space Marines.

>>49792714
40k is a metalfag setting. There's plenty of boring ones out there that might better suit you.

I'd reduce Necrons and Tau to minor, unplayable factions. Neither warrant a playable army. Space Marines variants also get way too much focus, they shouldn't.

>>49792966

they bring a very different playstyle and style then other races. I'd say that warrants plenty.


And no, 40K is just a scifi setting. they started heavy metaling it up by just adding in literally the same fucking gods from Fantasy and just trying to shoehorn the same chaos faction into both worlds.

>>49792558
All Space Marines share a codex, they can only be played as an allied detachment to a CAD that is more points than them. Space Marines have a more fluff-like powerlevel, so your average 500 points will be 5 dudes with weapons and a scout, all of which are independent characters with multiple wounds and IWND

There, now Space Marines are about as powerful as they are in fluff and actually have a reason to exist (linebreakers assisting other factions)

>If you could change one MAJOR thing about 40K, what would it be?
The community

>>49793490
On point anon. On point.

>>49792558
>>49792628

Jeez, this guy is worse than the people who occasionally complain about orks being too silly.

OP, you're welcome to your opinions, but you are in a very tiny and non-vocal minority.

>>49792833
>The chaos gods DIDN'T EVEN EXIST for most of the warp's existence(at least not in a way significant enough to effect anything). in the time of the old ones there were no chaos gods.

Bullshit.

Be'lakor confirmed to have been there at the time of the Old Ones and Necrontyr. Also Daemons were present in the Warp before the War in Heaven. The Old Ones created massive prisons to contain them (source Traitor's Hate).

>>49793677

which is where the "not significant enough to effect anything" part comes from.


Deamons existed, as they are just products of intelligent beings thoughts affecting the warp. but there were no all powerful chaos gods that controlled the warp and spilled over into the world en mass.


The chaos gods were born in the eons after the old one's deaths, as intelligent life spread and multiplied through the galaxy and certain themes(suffering, violence, etc) became extremely prevalent in the collective minds of those beings.


The Eldar could literally create gods at will through focused application of their minds unto the warp, and did so to make useful beings.

the same beings their final(accidental) creation, Slaanesh, devoured.


certain beings and entities existed in the warp, but there was NOTHING like these current 4 hyper powerful beings.

>>49793722
Nurgle has been part of the universe since the beginning

>>49793722


This. there has always been some manner of lifeforms in the warp, but the actual chaos gods and their total domination of the warp is very new, relatively speaking.


Ol slutty proved just how big the difference was between the older beings and the new when she ate most of the Eldar's gods single handedly. in addition, the deamons we see now are also more powerful, because they are in fact just shards of these new mega demons.

>>49793746

Very unlikely, unless there has also been intelligent life since always. beings in the warp are created from minds in the physical realm. Nurgle can't exist without beings in the material realm to suffer sickness and the like.

>>49793722
>>49793761
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M2

>>49793791
Meant for
>>49793746
>>49793677

>>49792558
>even considering removing chaos
nah. Other anons have said it better than I could but you can't really remove chaos and your reasons for wanting to do so are stupid imo.
I'd remove Dark Eldar though and re-write some of the Eldar history to make it make a bit more sense (60 million years of doing nothing is silly)

>>49792558
why are you playing 40k lol

Larger space marine chapter sizes

the codex standard of 1000 makes less sense the more I think about it, I think 10000 would be a better scale.

>>49793722
>which is where the "not significant enough to effect anything" part comes from.

Be'lakor was manipulating events from the shadows.

And the daemons were such a problem for the Old Ones that the Old Ones were sealing them inside massive planet sized prisons in the billions.

Also Be'lakor was created by the Four Chaos Gods. If he was there at the time of the Old Ones, then so were the Chaos Gods.

>>49793761
The Warp is a place where time has no meaning. So your statement is dumb.

>>49792989
Most of 40k is absolutely metal, though.
>flying space cathedrals
>melee combat (fucking hell, just ground infantry combat at all) 39 thousand years into the future
>space neo-feudalism
Nothing really makes sense except when viewed through the lens of a 70's or 80's metalhead.

>>49793490
Meh, it could be much worse. As it is the community is comfy and drama-free enough.

>>49792558
I'd give Orks the Squat treatment. Their brand of goofy bullshit has no place in grimdark. Leave them in Fantasy where they belong.

I'd rework the Tau to be a loose confederation of different small alien systems that banded together so that they wouldn't get this shit pushed in by every other large scale threat in the galaxy. It'd be a pretty even mix of aliens so instead of being blueberries and friends you get a wider mix. I'd still keep the old Tau races in there, but add a couple more so that there can be an alien council that is constantly bickering with itself, since each councilor is mostly looking out for their own species.

I'm still down with the same tech style and mechs, but the infantry would get more varied sculpts to show they are different species.

>>49792558
Sounds like you should be playing star trek not 40k

>>49793930
Fuck off and die you miserable, misbegotten cunt. If you think Orks are the only silly thing in 40k you are either 12 years old or a retard. Orks are fucking great, they provide some much needed comic relief whilst still remaining badass and a credible threat. I'm planning to ally some with my Eldar as we speak.

>>49792558

I'd change Chaos to an environmental danger rather than a militarized one. Keep the demons, hazardous warp travel, mutations and cults, but get rid of CSM and large-scale Chaos IG. Chaos should be a scary, ethereal force that manifests through either slow corruption or sudden possession, but on an individual level.

The one guy in the regiment who gives into his bloodlust and won't put the chainsword down when the fighting's done.

The Planetary Governer who indulges too deeply in wanton hedonism and starts a pleasure cult, gathering other members of the social elite to him.

Having these big ol' armies of organized villains seems very boring compared to the actual threats Chaos can pose, especially considering all the other armies available to fight.

>>49792558

Chaos is best handled in Dark Heresy, where it's a sort of omni-present background noise, and it's the warp itself that's the threat more than any individual god itself.

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>>49792558
The ability to dedicate yourself to two Chaos Gods at once, so long as they don't conflict with each other. For example, you could dedicate yourself to Khorne and Tzeentch, or Khorne and Nurgle, but not Khorne and Slaanesh (or make dedicating yourself to polar opposite gods a very risky thing). I don't see any reason why this couldn't be done, since Chaos Undivided exists, and it could give a needed breath of fresh air to Chaos.

Also, make Chaos less of a mindless evil and write it so that it represents potentiality instead of mere destruction. For example, bringing back the honorable aspect of Khorne.

Eldar focus may re on manipulating other races to do their fighting for them think the Shadows and Vorlons from Babylon 5

ALSO they have delicates fighters on par with Space marines thanks to litreal centuries of training themselves to perfect the art of war

>>49794855

This is, in fact, exactly what is being referenced in >>49794881

>>49794926
Yeah, that's part of what the Eldar are supposed to be in the fluff. Just going to war would be a risky affair to them, so even Dark Eldar raids into realspace would be a last resort if they can't buy slaves from anywhere else.

Get rid of the Tau. They feel like something out of star trek not 40k.

>>49794950
Basically and any proper force they eligibility while incredibly powerful lacks any real Stamina

Play up the Internal strife in the imperium, Imperial governor succession crisis, Mechanicum and Imperial church at each other's throats etc. etc.

Also Space marine companies/Squads and Imperial guard regiments "rent" themselves out in internal Imperial conflicts Condottori style

>>49794855
The thing is that experiencing the universe is secondary to playing the tabletop.
The tabletop needs armies.

I'd change the stupid loophole clause that allows SoB to act as the Ecclesiarchy's military arm.
Getting past "No men under arms" by using women is like something I'd hear from a child's movie.
It'd be much better to just allow the Ecclesiarchy to have military strength, but several Ecclesiarchs to divide up power and avoid another Gorge Vandire situation.

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>>49792558

>>49795140

Yeah but even now SM and CSM feel about the same when you compare them to any other army. The only exception is if you really amp up the sorcerers and demons bit for CSM, in which case you might as well be playing a demon and cultist army.

I like Chaos having strong, singular champions when it comes to mortals, rather than an army of mooks they throw at other armies of mooks. An occasional marine turned to Chaos is more interesting than an entire platoon.

I'd move factions about the same distance from victory.

Nobody is super close to victory, even if most factions are closing towards defeat due to all the fronts they are fighting on and most of them have a trump card or two they are trying for. The Necrons, Tyranids and Chaos are all just as much at risk of losing everything as the other factions.

>>49794892
>but not Khorne and Slaanesh

Kakita Duelists are (Not in setting but still) a fantastic example of Khorne and Slannesh. Utterly obsessed with the Perfect Cut and the Perfect Duel.

>>49795346
Chaos wold work better in if you were kinda forced to mix units up like you used to be able in fantasy (5th or 6th).
It would also be a lot better if there were fewer codex:chapter and more codex:xeno

>Doesn't know the fucking fluff
>Make a thread to bitch like a crybaby
>b8ing like 2/10

I like that Chaos exist. They add another dimension to the game. Without them, the game would be mostly Imperium vs Xenos. Basically all sci-fi out there is like that. How many others have the 'enemy within' with a pint of cthullu?

>>49792558
>scifi
Buddy, friend, pal, chum, amigo, hombre, compatriot.
40k is Science Fantasy.
It's supposed to have fantastical elements.

of course its edgy.

Chaos is at the literal edge of the human experience. THis doesnt mean a razors edge cutting itself, but to be at the lip, cusp, crest, and edge of what the human spirit can achieve.

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>>49792993
> Fluff marines on the table top

>>49792653
I, an inquisitor in the service of his holy majesty, order you to divulge the name of this game or program, unless you would wish for this world to be cleansed so your heresy does not spread

>>49793990
That actually seems like a fair idea.

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>>49794855
Yes but by the fluff that's what a good 98% of chaos is.

ultramarines fall completely to chaos, mainly due to their own hubris.

>>49795410
Both of those things fall under Slaanesh's preview.
[Skill with sword] and [skill with dueling] taken to /excess/.
Khorne doesn't care about how you execute your strikes, only that they spill blood.

>>49795653
Chapter master

>>49792558
I bet this is a Taufag.

>>49792558
I don't want Chaos removed, just dialed down significantly.

None of the "but akshully, we've always existed, and always will even if all life gets exterminated :^)" crap.
Make Abaddon a threat because he's tenacious as fuck and an incredibly skilled tactician who learned from the best, with his personal combat ability being significant but ultimately irrelevant. None of the bullshit like him waltzing into deamon worlds and making primarchs his bitches.
Give them a fucking lose condition like everyone else.

>>49792558
"I would remove what makes 40k 40k"

Neck yourself

>>49792966
>I'd reduce Necrons and Tau to minor, unplayable factions. Neither warrant a playable army.

Fuck is wrong with this guy?

>>49792966
Cron and tau player here... Go fuck yourself

>>49792966
>Necrons don't warrant a playable army
>Eldritch beings feeling nothing but hate who made the gods kneel at the dawn of time, brought low by their own hubris and turned into soulless mechanical abominations, rising again to end all life and claim the stars for their cold, dead, empire of machines and oblivion
>not metal
boi

>>49795992
This?
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Chapter_Master_(game)