Non-Human Races

Special snowflakes, anime, edgy races, furfaggotry. If you chose any of those you are automatically playing a shitty archetype and can never achieve the highs of role-playing. Only when you pick the blandest, most plain character, the male human fighter, are you able to properly role-play something that feels like a real character.

>>49770344
It is basically a 4chan unique stigma ive seen nowhere else.

Probably just shitposters who dont actually play games fueled by fake stories, all things considered

>>49770344
Non-human races are a crutch.

If you cannot make an interesting character without making them some sort of special bullshit snowflake, you're a shit player/GM

If you can make an interesting character, there's no reason to make them non-human.

If you make non-human character that is mentalli compatible with humans, see point 1.

If you make non-human character incompatible with human thinking, they cannot function in party.

It's quite easy, all things considered.

>>49770344
People that push the concept way, way too far, particularly in a setting where it doesn't make as much sense.

And because of people way, way overreacting to the former.

>>49770344

Because some people think its a crutch, which is a silly way of saying they dont think or understand how to make actual characters out of nonhumanoids.

As of being vanilla has ever stopped people from making special snowflake, bland, or shallow human characters. Its another silly stigma that only circles around the issue that bad roleplayers roleplay poorly, who knew?

>>49770514
Humans are a crutch for people unable to write nonhumans in a fantastical scenario.

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>>49770344
Non-human races are fine.

Bullshit anime crap like Kitsunes, Saiyans, Robot Masters, and Starfox furries is not.

Bullshit OC DONUT STEEL crap like half-dragon angel-blooded demonic vampires with powers over time and space, rainbow colored hair, and different colored glowing eyes is not.


Elves, Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings and other "generic" fantasy races are fine. In fact I wish DnD and it's clones didn't make Humans the best choice for 50-90% of the builds in the game, I'd actually like to see more variety in my games.

>>49771077
>No robotmasters
Opinion instantly discarded.

You do not deserve crash octopus

>>49771077
This. Most reasonable players don't hate people who play non-human races. Most reasonable players hate that non-human races gets turned into a slippery slope by weeaboos and tryhards who use non-human races as an excuse to build snowflakes and anime characters. This mostly applies to "homebrewed" races, but big enough faggots can even make it apply to the "generic" races, eg: making an elf just to play the entire game as an 800-year-old edgelord who's experienced enough to defeat anyone with his badass special elven katana.

As with most of the things /tg/ complains about though, apply reasonable approaches and common sense and the problem goes away on it's own.

>>49770514
>if you cant make a good story without fantasy elements, youre a shitty player/gm
>If you can make an interresting character, there is no reason to make them human
>if you make a non human character that is metnally compatible with humans, there is no point making him a human
>if you cannot make a human character compatible with non human thinking you are a shitty player

This entire thing is bait anyway.
Its a game of pretend you can do what you want, just be good at what you do. Most complaints about non human characters are actually just complaints about bad characters.

>your character is ltieraly just your races culture

Clearly having never seen anyone roleplay a "Viking"

>Your characters race has no point other than beeing exotic

Clearly you have never seen someone play a ninja in a european setting

>your character is just a special snowflake

See above

>Your character is just part of your sexual fetish

you have clearly never seen someone play a human character of the opposit sex
All of the arguments leveled at non human characters can be also leveled at badly done human characters.
Its just the stereotype of non human characters to be tumblr tier snowflakes but the same can be true for any human character.
And yeah i shouldnt have taken the bait.

>>49771077
>no Robot Masters

Nah, fuck you. Last rebel warforged bossfight I ran was fucking Sparkman on top of a lightning rod looking to destroy the rail system and it was awesome.


Recent NPC antagonist was a warforged in an underground bumfight circuit a powerhammer right hook. Harder-Than-Steel motherfucker.

>>49771205
>>49771200
Really, the only people ive ever seen complain about nonhumans either never played in the first place, or were such rejects that they had to form a group with other rejects out of despiration and had never been in a good group.

>>49770344
>What's with the stigma attached to non human characters?

Boring people being boring and inflicting their boringness on others out of jealousy for them not being nearly as boring as they are.

>>49771077
>Elves, Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings and other "generic" fantasy races are fine
If your're going to do that you may as well just go with Humans only.

Either you go humans only or you actually let people play exotic shit.

>>49771255
To be fair, getting in a good group is hard as fuck. When you're younger, everyone is a /v/tard or /a/utist, and when you're older finding people with an interest in TTRPGs or the time to actually participate in them is a process that can sometimes takes months when the time to find a new group comes.

>>49770846
No, humans are universal. You can make every type of character human and it will fit.

Fantasy races have one, at most two archetypes they fit into and in general they're "humans in funny hat" archetypes.

Essentially, if you make a CHARACTER and not dumb archetype, there's no reason they shouldn't be humans.

>>49771284
Yeah, it is hard.
You know what helps you get in groups not composed of rejects?
Avoiding spewing how much you hate widely appreciated things.

>>49770514
>If you cannot make an interesting character without making them some sort of special bullshit snowflake, you're a shit player/GM

This is the only point I agree with. 9 out of 10 times, someone who relies on their race to make them interesting will wind up with a shitty character. That said, I see no reason that once you have a basic character concept in mind, that you cannot make that character any appropriate race in the setting.

>>49771292
Archetypes are fine when they're deconstructed or played against types. Essentially the existence of different races in fantasy settings is a padded way of representing different races and cultures in a game without actually getting into /pol/-tier subjects of actual real-world racism among humans and such.

In some respects it might be cheap easy writing, but I'm actually OK with it. Assuming players are actually picking their character's race with an awareness of that race's stereotypes and culture, and not just because they give a good set of stat bonuses for a particular "build".)

>>49770514
This is mostly true for new/bad players/writers, and if they make a human it will just be more obviously bad without being any better. But there are some people who do this, i.e. a friend of mine who makes alright characters generally, made a literal goliath with nothing special at all, just competition, barbarianism, fairness, yadda yadda. This isn't really an argument against nonhumans, but rather against taking pre-established cultures, races, personality traits, characters etc. and not inventing or changing much. And if you're the GM, or even a fellow player and you don't make characters separately, you can prevent this by just asking the right questions and making them realize what they're doing.

>>49771292
>Humans are universal
Yeah, a universal crutch.

>>49771255
>such rejects
i think this goes even further.
Basically people that got low self esteem about playing DnD and stuff. They feel like they need to somehow legitimize their hobby by letting go of "silly" things like Kobold PCs. Im not even kidding.
This reminds me of people that keep saying vidya needs to be "Mature".
They feel that the stigmatization of their hobby is so justified that they need to somehow distinguish themselves by blaring on about how much better they are than anyone else.
Think about it, everytime you see someone post about how human only settings are superior (muh superior treatment of cultures, because nobody ever heard of glorantha) and how non human characters are degenerate you can just see them reek with insecurity.
They see that they are losers but they dont want to be the worst of the losers. The most pathetic of them all id argue.

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>>49771333
>Widely appreciated
>/a/
>/v/

>>49771292
Thats retarded anon, you can make a race do whatever

You sound like your history of gaming is exclusively reading that guy stories.

>>49771292
If non-human intelligent creatures exist in the setting, due to divergent evolution or magic, and these creatures regularly interact with humanity. I don't see a reason to restrict them.

>>49771375
And narrative speaking why even have races be a thing aside from different +2's at that point.

Having non human races is only worthwhile when their baseline psychology is radically different than that of a human. You can still play people that break the mode like this, but your usual mileu of Halfings, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Half-Whatevers are essentially just humans with different stats both socially and mentally.

Non-Humans are only worth bothering stuff when you get to stuff like Orcs, Warforged, Kobolds, etc.

>>49771371
Meanwhile, videogames outsell movies and are one of the largest entertainment industries.

>>49771414
>Why even have fantasical things?

>>49771292
Humanity isn't eusocial
Humans have emotions generally
Many other traits may not fit well with human characters.

No matter when or where, humans are doomed to be the weak link in the chain.

>>49771267
I fully agree with this.
Either go only human to focus more on the human cultures (not that you shouldnt always do that anyway if you are a good DM) or have some interresting races.
Im not saying you cant have elves and dwarves , even tho id skip the latter, but you should have more options than that. Youre better off with 10 different human cultures than 3 different variations of humans nameley the "Normal" , "tall" and "short" varieties.

>>49771292
theres also no reason they should be humans. Who says other races cannot be something other than humans with hats?
maybe you just got some shit imagination?
Even if your entire race is a bunch of Humans with hats why dont you use that hat to make your character interresting?
Why dont you subvert the hat? why dont you take the hat into new heights? Why dont you expand on the hat? If all characters of that race must be obsessive warriors why dont you make your character obsess over games of chance in war?
And for 90% of all exotic character races this isnt even the case, their hats tend to be very looseley defined like "eats people", so what mabye he doesnt always eat people, maybe he has to hide the fact that he eats people, maybe he relishes in the fact that he eats people, maybe he has grown up among humans and justifies his eating of people by him thinking hes only eating bad people?
What if he then becomes highly ingrained in fringe politics and starts eating people with opposing viewpoints still justifying himself that he eats "bad" people?
See this? You can use the hat of a race, such as eating people, to further exploit a classic human archetype like the "political radical".
Just be creative.

>>49771414
Agreed, though I think that those base races can be played with in interesting ways, different lifestyles may produce an alternate psychology.

>>49771434
>Why even have fantasical things?
Why indeed if they served no point?

Why have halflings if they're going to live like humans, eat like humans, think like humans, and occupy the exact same roles in society humans do with little variation or unique situations aside from the occasional short joke.

>>49771418
Quantity =/= Quality, in fact most mediums become WORSE the more popular (and profitable) they become.

>>49771469
>Agreed, though I think that those base races can be played with in interesting ways, different lifestyles may produce an alternate psychology.
I agree. Stuff like Glorantha Dwarves is a good example.

>>49771478
>Quantity =/= Quality

You can't seriously make this argument to oppose video games when the sheer magnitude of literature and film out there would only mean there is NO quality medium left, period. Books and movies still have the history AND numbers over vidya in terms of volume of product on the market, so by disparaging video games as "something mass produced therefor shit" you're basically admitting it's not as bad as the book or film industry.

>>49771414
>he is distilling races into numerical bonuses
>literally being everything he is decrying

>>49770344
Honestly the primary way to combat people that ALWAYS PLAY HUMANS is to make more races competitive with humans in terms of the benefits of playing them.

>>49771475
Anon, you missed the point already when you reduced the differences in races to numbers while ignoring the various complications and occurrances the various freakydeakies bring to the table.

A symptom of overd&d, it seems. Try shadowrun or something.

>>49771478
Goalposts: the moving.

>>49771687
No I didn't especially when I fucking pointed out that most fucking races don't have those complications and random occurrences.

You are deliberately misrepresenting my argument because I mentioned that stats exist, stop being stupid.

>>49770344
I think it has to do with the people that are often attracted to playing those races.

All the elf players we have had have been shameless weeboos, with anime or final fantasy names and played full edgelord. The one female player that played elf of course made an orc rape baby and constantly pointed at her ears and talked about being vegetarian.

The group has had good non human players one of them playing a wolf furry and one playing a dwarf.

>>49771600
Movies actually got beaten by vidya in numbers not too far back

>>49771475
What makes unusual races so non-functional with people?

What makes cultural differences irrelevant to being ""human""?

>>49771655
This has usually been harder in D&D because humans have generally been overall best in options.
From having the most class variety in 2e and Basic, to having better bonuses in 3.pf, etc.

>>49771292
There is also no reason they should be humans unless it adds something to them.

>>49771735
Trust me, this happens in all-human settings too, sadly enough.

Also, hey, I at least gotta give your non-existant rape-magical-realm player credit for mentioning their character is vegetarian. If that's a part of elven culture, good on them for playing to that culture and having it actually matter to their player.
But shame on your GM for letting rape fetishes be part of the game and not kicking her ass out immediately.

There is no reason to ever have humans as a race outside of strictly realistic settings.

>>49771775
No.

Humans are superior - they're more relatable, it's possible to emphatize with them and players inherently take them more seriously . They will remember human character/NPC's name instead of calling them just "an elf". They will CARE, not just tolerate the presence of a character.

Playable non-humans are a sign of amateurish, easily impressionable or just plain bad GM.

>>49771759
>Humans being the best in AD&D
>Not Half-elf
You literally only lost Paladin and, in 1E, Monk for rolling Half Elf. Elf wasn't far, only losing Druid and Bard but with kits allowing them to build either anyway (Seldarine Herbalists and most 2e races had a Bard kit besides dwarf)

>>49771759
Yeah, but that can be mitigated

generally races should be better at their specialty than humans, in some way a feat can't grant.

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>>49771847
Humans as the only playable race is the sign of an amatuerish, easily impressionable, or just plain bad GM with no imagination.

See, I can spew hot opinions like they're facts too.

>>49771847
You are changing your argument so hard that the goalposts just boarded a boat.

You make empty assertions, and I doubt you believe any of them, at best roleplaying as a dumb wannabe grog.

>>49771867
Too bad they're usually not and the feat is often much more beneficial than any racial bonuses, unless you're playing with overpowered 3rd party shit or retarded homebrew.

>>49771466
>Youre better off with 10 different human cultures than 3 different variations of humans nameley the "Normal" , "tall" and "short" varieties.
Interestingly, those aren't mutually exclusive.

>>49771847
Those are all signs of inexperienced And unrefined roleplayers

>>49771902
>empty assertions

nope, observations.

>>49771883
Except your hot opinions are seem to be more correct than the shitposter's most of the time.

>>49771788
The elves are not strictly vegetarian. Due to there nations current situation most live stock has not been sustainable.
That will probably be better now that the nation that holds the secret to necromancy and cloning is no longer isolationist.

On the rape bit. The gm told he that she was a stereotype and she never brought it back up.

>>49771907
i said should

>retarded homebrew
>overpowered 3rd party

honestly most of that junk is better than 1pp

>>49771759
Did literally nobody on /tg/ even read 4e?

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>>49771959
I was too busy playing videogames that scored higher than 4/10, and 4e's graphics were shit.

>>49771959
Some of us did, but there are enough people that sperg out and threaten derailment when it's brought up that we've been conditioned to gloss over it.
Humans were really good for certain things, though. Like getting an extra at-will on psionic classes that had those as their bread and butter.

>>49771959
You mean the bonus feat, extra at will power and floating +2 that humans had?
Humans were less an automatic option in 4e, but was still a powerful one, especially for casters who wanted to broaden their skill set and fighters of certain stripes.

>>49771942
Through observation, people also concluded that waving certain sticks made it rain, Pure empiricism is worthless.

>>49771915
I generally have multiple cultures of all races in play.

>>49772024
>I generally have multiple cultures of all races in play.
okay. Explain how they absolutely couldn't be human.

Go on, i'm waiting.

>>49771959
I mean, he mentioned 2E which means he was already objectively wrong (humans were underpowered and being able to play Paladin was a worthless bonus when so few people cared to roll one anyway; Ranger had less painful RP restrictions and less punitive reqs)

>>49770514
If you can make an interesting character, there's no reason not to make them non-human

>>49772040
Well, there's the guys whose architecture is predicated on being able to walk on walls.

>>49772040
They, indeed, could.

Conversely, making them human adds literally nothing of narrative worth. Therefore they aren't. The same way mentioning that children are humming while playing in the streets doesn't add much besides the impression that the place is alive.

>>49772040
Why would any of them be human?
Humans are a boring crutch for bad players.

Wether or not a player has a human character does not matter as much as if he is a good player

>>49772218
The only sound reply I've read so far
Getting tired of this Human only meme

>>49770344
if I lived in a world with non human races I would set out on a quest to sodomize every single non human female

>>49770344
>What's with the stigma attached to non human characters?
Too many stories and experiences with such unconventional characters being taken by edgy special snowflakes unable to roleplay well and believably, but desperately striving to stand out or to appear more like their favorite anime/game/whatever character or fit with their magical realm.

>I'm playing an elaborate game of pretend, why would I limit myself to the most mundane race?
You really don't have to, you shouldn't even limit yourself in arbitrary ways anons suggest in this very thread. But at the same time, you should accept that people will be wary - and so will be you - of characters striving too hard to stand out, players showing no ambition, moderation or common sense.

I know of games with beastkin races that went well despite me being slightly worried about such close proximity to what I assumed were furries. If players play characters well and characters befit the setting, go wild.

It's just often it's the people with the least abilities and worst taste which try to mask it with over-the-top-unique builds.

>>49770514
This person doesn't understand the point of fantasy games.

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>>49770514
This still needs to take into account

>That one can use these subjects and concepts as a placebo substitute of good characterization doesn't mean it will invariably used so.

It's just that when it is used as such, it tends to stand out pretty starkly. See the various renditions of Drizzit clones and Illidaniels.

Some folks wanna play something way out there, and they can make it work in an interesting fashion that compliments the party both in character and in gameplay. Regardless of the character's race, that's usually the ideal goal in most games I've run.

If you get a one-dimensional donut made of steel in your party, figure out ways to draw a character around the Caricature .

>My character is a surface-dwelling vampire drow who wields twin warglaives.
"What's his name?"
>Grimsteel.
"Well okay that sounds pretty artificial. Why's he called that?"
>It's a name he earned for his skill in battle!
"Alright, well he's got 5 levels in Warlord so I guess that makes sense. The hell is a light-sensitive-plus-light-alergic person doing on the surface?"
>.....
"Alright let's start there."

You are not having maximum fun if you do not follow the wookie principle.

Any group of all humans needs one wookie. Any group of all wookies needs one human.

>>49770514
(You)

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>>49770514
>>49771292
>trying to police glorified pretend

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>mfw I play a thri-kreen every chance I get just to spite pathetic weirdos who have a pathological fear of furries

>>49773158
You are doing god's work

Honestly I always feel like if I choose a human I'm wasting the system. If you're presented with 50 different ice creams why would you choose vanilla?

I have always wanted to write a fantasy novel that has no humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, trolls, gnomes, or halflings

>>49770344
People view it as a furry, even when it's not.

You guys are right. In a game where we play something, anything other than what we really are, let's get rid of everything that isn't real. Let's get rid of the fantasy races, like Game of Thrones did! (except they didn't)
Let's get rid of the aliens in Star Trek. Most of them are just people with rubber foreheads, like Mr. Space Elf. They're superfluous. They add nothing to the setting. Let's get rid of all the Xenos and Chaos in 40K, too. Most people just play as space marines anyway, the others are stupid or derivitive.
And does Lord of the Rings really NEED hobbits or dwarves, or Sauron? Let's just have it be all about the humans.
Why should Call of Cthulhu be about nightmarish monstrosities from beyond the stars, who mere existence mocks our firmly held beliefs about our place in the universe?
Why should anyone want to play anything other than humans, in a fantasy setting?

This is almost as retarded as the thread I saw here asking why these games even have magic. Listen , just because some people are unable to play a Dwarf as anything other than Gimli, doesn't mean you should only play as human. We're playing fucking make-believe. I'm going to play as something fantastic and unrealistic. Otherwise, I might as well just play as Steve, from accounting.

>>49772040
Because humans can't fly, breath underwater, reincarnate, go months without water, or have eidetic memory as a genetic trait

>>49770344
I think that that pic would be cool to see in a game and i'd polish her crystals if you know what i mean
All waifufaggotry aside a race of crystal people who are very good at illusion and shielding magic and working with crystalline materials to make all sorts of magical items and buildings
It would be cool for them to also be really wise and knowledgeable on all the different elemental planes and be sort of caught between the material and elemental planes not really having to much of a place in either

This is obviously stolen from a certain blog, but, fuck it.

The issue with demihumans is that they are human at core.

A Dwarf is just an exaggerated human. A Dwarf, short and stocky in stature, with a love of beer, a thick accent, a cherry-red nose, and a strong sense of ancestral spirit. Some Dwarfs, across different settings, have different traits. But, when you think 'Dwarf', you get a mental image in your brain.

Short, stocky, thick accent, booze-loving, hardy, lives underground.

Everything you do when you roleplay a Dwarf is now based on those stereotypes, and how you choose to indulge them or playfully subvert them. You are now pigeonholed, because you have chosen to play a dwarf, and all Dwarf-y things that come with that label are yours.

A shamelessly greedy but endlessly loyal human with a love of drink that is desperately looking for his ancestors kingdom, so old and forgotten the ink about them is flaking off in the history books, is a moderately interesting character. It's a paint-by-numbers Dwarf, though.

With that being said, Dwarfs are still pretty fucking awesome as a race, long-lived stereotypes about them regardless, and there's absolutely no shame in playing them, including them in your setting, or anything. But a setting without demi-humans doesn't magically become less exotic, since demi-humans are typically just exaggerated humans. They're replaceable with quirky human kingdoms.