Floors General.

I know De Lis has aspirations for it, but I was wondering if anyone was else had a desire to take on being a Midian, or interested in the Vampyre class.

Because I missed my chance and thread died, here is a very simple move for the current ACTION PHASE if allowed :

>Load Ticking Solution Alpha in Napalm Hug
>Engrave Arrow Ball Ball Ball Ball on Napalm Hug

[Q]Coffee, Level: 8
Status: Normal
HP:13/13(4+9), MOV:4(3+1), ACT:2(2+0), ATK:2(2+0), DEF:11(1+10), MPow:6(4+2), MDef:5(4+1)

Equipment:
-Napalm Hugs (Rng 3 tile line, 1 Handed) [Ticking Solution Alpha]
-Rainbow Box
-Otherwordly Dictionary (Air, Words 3, Mag +1)
-Storm Coat (+1 Mag, +1 Hp, +1 Def, Wind Proof, Water Proof)
-T.E.K. (Words 5, Chambers 5, Move +1, Hand +1)

Bag:
-Iron Maiden
-Empty
-Calorie Gram x2
-Moon's Hate (Pot 7x2, +Mag. Instant Coffee
-Empty
-Launcher (Rng 4, Ammo 2, 1 Handed)

Chambers : [Empty] / [Empty] / [Empty] / [Empty] / [Empty]

Rainbow Box :
2 Pyracyte Crystals,
1 Teracyte Crystals,
1 Aer Crystal,
1 Lux Crystal,
2 Darc Crystal,
1 Lux Shard
4 Hydra Shards
8 Beakers,
2 Waters,
Gem Cutter,

Gravity Solution Alpha
Lux Solution Alpha
Sizing Solution Alpha

Ammo : Pillshot x10 (Dmg 0), Iron Drops x6

Skills :
[M]Ball, Arrow, Ring, Block, Eye, Hand, In Tandem,
[Q]Engrave, Infuse, Crystalize, Launch Item, Potion Make

>>49762328
Could we get you to post the class sheet, Scholar? That might help curious people more.

>>49762360
Didn't Viktor and that viscout dudette expressly forbid the creation of more midians?

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Posting the information album
>http://imgur.com/a/wCDpg

Pic related is a Plant Pulse which targeted a tile, causing vines or roots to grow out of the ground. Doesn't inflict [Bound] but looks to instead pin the target to the tile.

[P] Justin Lv3 [Human Paladin]
=Interested in gardening=
HP 5/9 [b6+3lv] MOV 3 [b3+0] ACT 2 [b2+0]
STR 4 [b2+2CO] DEF 4 [7 Front] [b2+a2+s3] MAG 4 [b2+a2]

ATK: 5 [b2+2CO+1 Iron Door Shield]
POW: 7 [b2+ a2+ w3]

Equipment:
+Main Hand+ Iron Door [Shield] [lv2; +1 Atk; +3 Def]
+Off Hand+ [Poka] Druidmere (Level 3, Magic +3, Casting Range 4, Grants Plant, Teras, Hydra)
=Armor= Vestal Plate [lv3; +2 Mag, +2 Def]
Bag: 60z [100z + Hammer (1 Atk/ 0 MAG Rng) + Ish Bone in Llama Bank]
- ???? Book
-Gun
-
-

Skills:
[Guide] Channel; Pulse; Ward; [Paladin] Crusader OATH (Redistributes MAG split between ATK and DEF); Shield Formation
Missing Items: Traveling Cane, Barbed Shotel, Spiced Jerky, Sadia Kopis
Zeal: 2.2

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I think this is it.

It's real fancy! So new people can join, if they like - simply look at the image left and pick a class and make a sheet from something like this:

[Class]Name, Level:Class
=Status=
HP:Current/Total(Base+Mod), MOV:Total(Base+Mod), ACT:Total(Base+Mod), ATK:Total(Base+Mod), DEF:Total(Base+Mod), MAG:Total(Base+Mod)

Equipment:
-Main Hand (Stats)
-Off Hand (Stats)
-Armor (Stats)
-Offhand-Handless Equipment (Stats)
Bag: [Zenny]
-Empty
-Empty
-Empty
-Empty

The middle six ones (Rogue, Hunter, Knight, Militia, Mage, Guide) is what's available as a starter.
Pick 2 skills.
Level up and get more skills! And do it while avoiding death (death mostly will not be avoided). Or become a new and exciting advanced class with more skills! Power overwhelming.

And now a gossip inducing question:
How much do you think Questi's is in debt to the scholomance?

>>49762852
It would be goos to post the link to the Google Docs guide as well. Many things are very unclear
without it.

>>49763739
Ask questions and we will mostly answer!

>>49763739
The google doc is also incredibly outdated and can be modified by anyone who has the link. I've come to find many errors made in regards to the doc's rulings and how the mechanics function in the game.

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>>49762852
basic options for new players

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>>49763978

>>49762752
>>49762360
I might be interested, they only forbade turning people on the deaths door into midians

(Can lux-sworn only be taken on character creation? Because I'm considering becoming A SHINING BEACON OF HOPE FOR ALL!)

>>49765349
It's available to anyone at any time outside of running around in a floor, if I remember right.

>>49765364
Thanks dude.
SHIIIIIIINING BEACON!

>>49765372
Oh I do remember though that if a Knight goes Lux-sworn you lose Aethernumb since you get +2 Mag. Should you go into a class from Knight which has innate Mag then you still get the +2 bonus on top of it.

Jesus Christ!

Don't fancy running a Floors Lite at some point, do you?

Can't make head nor tail of the current version.

>>49765419
These campaigns can take months, so I don't know if a Lite version will ever come. He does do alternate games sometimes.

Anyway, the basics are fairly, well, basic. You pick a class, a name and a trip, you get dropped on a board and you post your action based on your stats and you skills.
Feel free to ask any questions if you're seriously considering.

Rolled 6, 6 = 12 (2d6)

>>49762360

I'm interested too.

>>49762328

Did processing finish with the thread? If so kindly ignore.


"Yikes.... Alright let's see if I can find anything out.... "

>-loot all the bones (ALL THE BONES)
>-loot Hel marine head
>-loot BR-02 if Nid can't get it
>[rule 0] pry off helmet from Hel marine head and see if there's any information in it. (2 acts? Can't remember if rule 0 takes all actions)
>move 2S E


[R6] Short, Level 1: Rogue

=Status=

HP:5/5(4+1+0) MOV:3(3+0) ACT:3(3+0) MAG:2(2+0)
ATK:3(2+1) DEF:2(0+2)

Equipment:
-Main: Dagger (Lvl. 1, +1 ATK)
-Off:
-Armor: Prisoner's Clothes (Lvl. 0, +1 DEF)
-Eqp: Maiden Face plate ( +1 DEF)

Bag: [0z]
-skull

Lost Bag: [0z]

-x4 Dagger (Lvl. 1, +1 ATK)
-x2 Keys (Opens doors or Chests)
-Thief Bomb (Can be thrown, AoE)
-empty

Skills: [R] Switch(P), Weapon Throw

>>49765884
And then, Short realized he could see /forever/.

Class specific templates are here.

http://pastebin.com/LuatcHLb

Tap

Stop that thread.

Don't die.

Operating on the wild presumption that I survive, I'm looking into when exactly I should make the switch to Magnate.
Now, it's become clear to me onthe current floor that switch is an invaluable skill, and with the way Skillz combine, getting back attack is also on my to-do list. Beyond that, though, I'm not aware of any restriction on advancing from adept rogue into an advanced class, is this possible? If so, Lightning reflexes is a must, and both scuttle and kicksteal would help with the high-zeny needs of a magnate, but I don't know how necessary they are.
Thoughts and input?

>>49769772
You won't be able to promote till next floor, so I'd wait to see how the new crafting system unfolds I'm not a big fan of neither magnate nor adept rogue tho

>>49769772

So leveling works as is.

Clear floor: 1 level as class you finished the floor as
Boss credit: 1 level as class you finished floor as

Then any time after that you can go to Advanced class, gaining a skill.

You can not use the above 1-2 levels into an advanced class.

>>49769772
I think you can advance any time you level, so even at level 2. But you can't do the reverse, so any skill that you don't grab before advancing, you'll never have. On the other hand, to grab all the skills, you'd need to assume you'll survive many floors after this one.
And assuming survival is never advised in floors.
Pick and chose.

>>49769969
also if you want to go adept, you need to waste 1 level unlocking adept without gaining any skill, which doesn't happen if you go advance

>>49770003

You don't really waste a level.

Lvl 2 rogue with 3 skills gains 2 levels
>take last rogue skill
>take adept skill

>>49765452
Thanks, I don't think this game is too hard to understand after all.

Is there PvP?

How many player characters have died so far?

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>>49770126
WyrdHunt pre floor 5

>>49770126
>Is there PvP?
There's shooting your teammates in the back. We would appreciate if you didn't do that.
The host also did a pvp-game this summer I think.

>How many player characters have died so far?
33%

You can also visit our character gallery
http://imgur.com/a/nVsC1/layout/horizontal#0

>>49770171
>>49770180
>>49770348
Nice. Reading the former installments and learning as I go.

Is there any class that would be really useful to join with right now?

(In other words, somebody talk me out of working towards Shinobi!)

>>49770348
>tfw you are not there

>>49770386
>http://imgur.com/a/nVsC1/layout/horizontal#0
You know, Anon, Anon is actually a really good name for a starting Rogue character... hmmm!

>>49770384
rogues have like 200% casualty rate and shinobi are like rogue+1, on the other hand ghoul and magnate have a 0% casualty rate

>>49769983
Planning character progression requires that you assume survival. I fully expect to die every phase, so all of this is just theoretical anyway, up until it (miraculously) happens.
>>49769969
If Goya was this floor's boss, I don't get credit. I didn't arm or save anyone that fought him, and was nowhere near to attack him myself. Sad day.

Speaking of credit, how do bombs affect Zeal gain?

>>49770534
Bombs are Throwables, so is falling under "throwable missile weapons". If you explode-detonate something with a bomb or molotov or rock that you blow up with your mind, you get Zeal. Yay! Rabbitspaw did that once.

>>49770384
Shinobi is great. Rabbitspaw is a shinobi. Also you can be great-big Shinobi Lux Dragon Pact Ninja! Then you are Justice Shinobi! Is best Shinobi.

>>49770511
>, on the other hand ghoul and magnate have a 0% casualty rate

And it's damnwell staying that way if I can keep it.

>>49769772
Let me jaw at you a mite, Suicide Lemming.
First of all, Fleur is wrong - ignore everything she says, we taught her the wrong way around on purpose for an experiment. A new skillpoint can be traded in to learn a new skill. Once you advance, you get 1 free skill because you advanced into the class, becoming the class.

So if you survive an entire floor you get 1 skill point.
Options:
+1 base class skill
+1 base class skill then advance for +1 advance class skill
advance for +1 advanced class skill, use skillpoint for +1 advanced class skill.

Now for the magnate. First of all, it's my monopoly, and I'll shoot you. Second of all, that probably all that discouraging. I'd say you want at least the Basics. A magnate IS NOT a class on its own. Other advanced class are, and get tricks and capabilities they can use independently of where they came from (Shinobi Red Petals make any rogue better, Slayer Twist is a straight upgrade to any attack, Scholar Polarize is always useful). As a magnate you get no survivability because they have the lowest stat gain of any advanced class, and none of the skills really give you a great big oomph right away. You're gonna be doing your base class activities a lot, with an occassional extra. IE: You pick up Deal, and then you use Deal and now you've gotta handle the rest of the floor, that's your base skills. Disguise? Subdeliver? Hire a body guard? Same issue.

You also need money for every skill, which is best gotten by padding your accounts. I blew my accounts on a bunch of stuff then got this Magnate gig, and don't I feel useless that I can't actually do my class right.

Round out the base rogue first for all the skillz, at least. That's 1 floor + 1 boss. Then either stick around and grab some adept skills - KickSteal and Scuttle are good ones for earning money - and thn grab an advance.

File: Rogue Lore.png (224KB, 600x618px) Image search: [Google]

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Sicne we are posting pics I will post the base classes lore sheet

>>49770879
Ooh yeah, I love these. I switched computers and now have to refill all my Floors-saves.
Thanks Poka!

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>>49770901
You are most welcome!

>>49765304
>>49770126

PvP is a potential thing in certain situations.

Hunters are actually incentivized to kill other party members in the right circumstances. For example, Blood Lust doesn't care where the kill comes from, so finishing off a team mate who is going to die anyway because there's no guides nearby (this is a very rare circumstance, so rare it's not actually come up where both a hunter was near and a guide-line wasn't) neither does "Revenge Has No Home". If you witness a runner kill another runner (even an NPC runner), killing them nets you a permanent +1 Strength.

>>49771043
Well I do say, you can be quite a scary fellow, oh master Judge! Functional, yes, but quite scary.

>>49771043
That's not really PVP though, that's mercy killing.

I think it's important to include the intentonal difference. You don't set out with the goal of murdering someone else.

It is true that at any time, for any reason, you could just make your actions
>I attack Trigger

But at the same time... Why would you? This isn't that kind of game.

>>49771149
I never said it was a good idea to do this stuff, just that the potential existed and the system does incentivize it. It's something to be aware of.

>>49771265
I can think of some circumstances where it might be necessary, maybe not against you but against other party members certainly. We don't all have the same ideas on what survival for the party means, and most of the time that means we stick together, but in some cases the actions of an individual might drag the whole party into threat and have to be taken care of, and that would no doubt cause a fracture in the party and eventually a civil war. PvP is a possibility in this game, even a strong one.

>>49771303
>Actually totally has contingency plans against pretty much every long term player, granted a lot of those plans are out the window in some cases recently.

Oh, and Burkhard has the contingency plan against me incase it should ever be necessary to put me down.

>>49771533

Generally you stab a person to death, then depending on who they are you light them on fire, or eat them.

>>49771614
Or turn them into your personal sock puppet in Verbal's case.

>>49771303
To be fair I am pretty fluffy and adorable and almost certainly not a spawn of Yig wearing kerbold flesh, puppeteered by an ancient mind to seep sickening tendrils into the floors of man.

Ahem.

Fluffy. Why would anyone ever want to murder me?

Are you thinking about murdering people again, Hetros? Rabbitspaw would be so disappointed in you.

>>49771809
Excuse me? We're runners. We quite literally are sociopathic murderhobo refugees on the run from the ultimate end of all realities who will kill, stab, steal, and murder our way to survival.

How many sapients have YOU killed Trigger? What about Rabbitspaw? I seem to remember an entire tribe of moblins having something like a third of their number simply annihilated in a single turn by a clever usage of Ki bombs.

Moblins are sapients... they have language, can communicate, and form societies, and as evidenced by our representative in the House of M, are capable of such things on a scale larger than that of jungle apes.

Just because our murder of them was completely justified in the circumstances, does not make them not people, and doesn't make what we did to them not murder.

I might seem cold hearted and sociopathic at times in my general making of contingency plans to eliminate any threat, but at the very least I don't lie to myself about what I am or what I do.

Fluffy as you are Trigger, trying to suggest that me planning on murdering people, or making plans in case I have to put down a team mate turned enemy, is some how morally objectionable compared to what all of us do here, is kinda silly don't you think?

>>49772066
>We quite literally are sociopathic murderhobo refugees
No no! We've talked about this! We're not murderhobo's! We're liberators!

We've just liberated Goya, right?
We're liberators.
Murderliberators.

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>>49772121
>viscount judgement stares

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>>49772169
>blank, gleeful, distracted stares at some floating aethersparks
Yes yes, free as a butterfly...

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>>49772169
>>49772231

Heckles down gents, we can talk runner ethics when we're out of this shithole prison.

You do the job that's in front of you or people die, that's the top and bottom of it.

>>49772334
No reason to lie to ourselves about what th job is though Burkhard.

>>49772066
Hmh. Well there was those eight Bagmen. Four skeletons. Ghouls. Vosskon marines. Ghosts. Four squids. I shot that soldier from Pest Control. That other soldier. Their buddy. Two or three or four helmarines. Five kidnappers. Oh, I just kicked two people into a Pit. Moblin jailors. That one giant. Think I shot a bloodmage. Two bloodmages. Giant chimera.

But c'mon, who's counting? If I wanted to let the mindnumbing terror of previous deeds somehow haunt my every waking moment I'd stop drinking and actually be sober for five minutes. It's much easier for me to just ride out the wave of blatanat hypocrisy and minor moralistic highgrounding through a lens of constant minor inebriation and lack of taking responsibility for my own actions.

In any case if you do want to kill people what I'd do is delegate the job. I can get you real reasonable discount rates on proper volga assassins! That way you can outsource your murder.

Be a Ghoul! Join me into a gastronomical food world! The undead world isn't bad!

>>49771043
" Avenging a Runner's Killer gains a permanent +1str "

It does not necessarily have to be another runner. But if you kill the creature,runner,boss that killed your friends you get a permanent +1str

>>49770785
In the interst of not getting shot for nosing in on your monopoly, what do you think my chances are of setting up a deal with someone other than Volga are?
See, thinking ahead, I'm worried that our less alive members might need some more solutions to their unique dietary requirements, and a deal with the house of M would go a ways towards solving that issue.

Huh, yeah, I should add that I'm not really interested in getting bit by either option.

>>49775186
Pretty easy. I did the paperwork on mine because I happen to know a quartermaster from way back when.

>You pick the contract when levelling into the class, either Arms or Red Market. Red Market deals in... Less Savory and Exotic Goods, so blood is quite likely.

So it's safe to say saving Runa may have her repaying the hunt by showing some of our healers the ways of the Druid. With that in mind we may end up seeing some other folks here that can aide us. I'm hoping to see Avdol. Now I wasn't running around with you guys but Yang definitely learned how to fight like a rogue before learning how to punch.

Shouldn't this be on the quest containment board?

My understanding of how spells work is the first word is the base or form of the spell, and the following words are all modifiers. this image seems to go against that theory. what would the difference be between -ball arrow- and -arrow ball-?

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>>49776588
Image didn't post

>>49776610

Arrow ball is a 5 range spell with +1 mag
Ball arrow is a 6 range spell with -1 mag

>>49776588
More specifically

ball arrow is a 5 range ball spell which is a
magic missle that doesn't hit friendlies

arrow ball is a stronger 5 range arrow spell

>>49776636
>>49776654
Thanks, the image didn't look like an arc, possibly because it was cast from a rune. That's what I was wondering.

>>49762752

Alistair doesn't want us raising the already dead by sirings. Which, sure, is doable but a waste if we're lacking navigators at that point of time. So blame him if you're dying, a navigator isn't there and I'm not siring you.

I don't think Viktor said anything about creating more, it's just generally maybe a taboo? We might get some vampire hunters coming after us but that's more loot. Not like I haven't probably pissed off a noble house by eating Fierstrom and refusing to give them back some blood.

>>49765304
>>49765884

So that's three in total? Maybe once we find a lull in the fighting I can make this happen.

If you're checking the thread Beckie, as you're the highest level shinobi and first to reach level 8.

Would you be interested in

Obsidian Combat Knife: Lvl8
[$][??] only
Atk+0
-Cannot Be Blocked with Phys-
-Causes Bleed 3-

???????

>>49777505
I would be very interested in having a weapon like that. We are starting to run into enemies I simply can't hurt. Even from the back. That would help a great deal.

>>49777657

When we get access to our bank, it's yours.

>>49776636
>>49776654

"POW modifiers of words always take effect regardless of their position in a spellchain. Arrow Ball and Ball Arrow therefore have the same strength, but perform with different qualities."

"Ball Arrow is a Ball spell with augmented range, arcing up to 6 tiles away."

"Arrow Ball is an Arrow spell with augmented power, penetrating up to 5 tiles."

>>49778298
awesome, thanks. That helps a lot and confirmed my theory. Is there a written source for those quotes?

Livia if i may if we or when a individual slays the T-rex may i acquire its skull for my own purposes? I would like to keep it for momento purposes and for a plan i have one day.

hi this is Charon I'm just wondering, if I don't deploy on this floor am I eternally imprisoned in this hellprison or what?

>>49779511
Nah only for a minor eternity, buddy. We'd get you out eventually.

>>49779511
>>49779527
Any chance you are adverse to being a kerbold?

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Floors 6.1 Upcoming patches and changes

In the coming days leading up to the Halloween Event [Tm] a veritable payload of features will soon Hit Floors as we fight our way to Freedom.

=Trick or Treatise=
The Peace Craft Update.

" Peace Crafts are that which has been leftover from the old world when Runners hardly moved and the mundanity of living yawned forevever t'wards an infinite plane of Turns and Days. Now they are measured breathes between our long marches, the gasp of air that reminded us the comforts of a hearth, and the fleeting time we once had. They are what remains of the concessions we made to preserve our way of life from fathers to mothers to sons to sisters to strangers past. And yet, let their hand guide you to better times, and their hunger take you to prosperous conquests "

Peace Crafts will soon become available upon progressing this arc. Like a Job Class, they are taken in conjunction with your current Runner Class as a [PeaceCraft] to be listed alongside your level. There at least 6 possible ones.

[FRG]- Forge: A long line of Blacksmithing communities are familiar with the Floors and understands the need for their Industry, Weapons and Armor becomes their bread and butter.

[ARM]- Armswright: Descended from one of the three pillars of the Order; The engineers of the Ignyllian Order are capable of crafting Firearms, Devices and Ship Parts using secrets passed down from halls of the Order.

[JNK]- Junker: Collects scrap and junk and specializes in breaking down and recycling objects for materials such as Ores and Material. The Junker lives and thrives at the bottom of the Iron line right where the Volgons want their deserters to be.
[CRV]- Carver: Living in the Wylds and subsisting on the Stairss can't be suffered the happenstance meeting of supply lines especially if one lives far and away from any runner society where there is nothing around but overgrown monsters :p

More >>>

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>>49780137

[WND]-WunderMaker: After a year of relative peace, the esoteric teachings of Wundermaking has proliferated from Luxendarc and ascended in many directions to aide many unsupported mages and guides despite their political allegiances. They have but on rule: No eating while on duty !*

[WVR]- Weaver: The Far Eastern art of silk and thread spreads unbidden in the shipping lanes of Qrloo's Dragons and Sidhe Nomads dressing, shrouding, and tailoring for Lords and Runners alike who wish to be adorned in their trophies and suffused with their power.

[STG]- Sturgeons are travelling students of the old Sciences, earning and learning their craft through their nonmagical healing artes. And generally finding a place in every Runner group from. They depend on a steady stream of medical supplies as a result, but are unafraid to use what they have to perform any grisly operation.

[VBK]-VeilBreakers use a specialized language to communicate with each other through the unending ainsible networks. As a result their services are second to none when it comes to gathering information, trade requests, and jobs far and away from populated Routes.

> So basically It's Crafting.
AND IT COMES WITH A BIG STUPID LIST OF RULES

> Do I have to pick one.
Aboslutely not ! The game functions even if there are only 3PC's in the group.

> So why include it ?
As the floors ascend, supplies will be limited, the monsters will get stronger, and new people will have a harder time having the stats needed to keep on top. Using any combination of PC's alongside progression will allow the party to benefit from crafted weapons here and there where sources of such will start to be in short supply. [Even in Corridors]

>But my Items
Players will recieve a second pool of items whenever they gain a Peacecraft it's purely a bonus feature.

>How do crafted items stack up against found items ?
Crafted Items > Intentional
Found Items > Interesting

>>49780298
> Do I have to pick one.
>Aboslutely not !
Does that mean that you can have zero, or more than one?

>>49780342
It is locked at one PeaceCraft per Runner.
The price of learning it is a jar pickles.

>>49780351
So where do I get my hand on a jar of pickled gherkins?

>>49780137
>>49780351
Will investing in a [Peacecraft] affect the progression of class abilities or levels? For instance, will we need to choose to learn a skill from of class -or- our peacecraft when we complete a floor, or will it draw from a different pool?
Will all the crafts be available, or will we need to unlock them? Will even more be unlockable at a later time?
Where do pickles even come from? Plant BlockArrowBlock?

All those of are fairly self-explanatory, except the VeilBreakers. What's that all about? They learn how to tune an ainsible frequency bands, sounds like.

Well that's a spiffy skill for a gunnery coordinator or a high-stakes arena bookie taking bets from multiple comers. Might even be a good trick in a core city for picking up stirring Volga Marching Music.

We're in a prison, and last time I was in a gunfight it was with a demon incursion from Hel itself that lead to a fight with an acid-breathing fire-sprouting chimera, during which assassin murder moths kidnapped our friends. Then to find them, we skipped by a desert where a giant acid-bleeding, multiple skeleton spewing and spawning mega-centipede king ruled the scorching sands.

I'm a dumb mutt, I might need a few more words to see how a veilbreaker is the kind of you want near you in the sort of situations we commonly get up to.

>>49780589
You steal them from pickle monsters.

Obviously.

>>49780583
In the ainsible, information travels more fluidly than all other services. Currying favors from the runners ahead only to have them returned to you from below has been the ideal situation but typically doesnt always occur. Veilbreakers make a name for themselves as a result and trade information, requests, and jobs to build credit for their group, allowing groups to navigate floors ahead without a map. It is also not unusual to have runners all over mediate deals and ship products across the Media line in a bold speculation for profits.

>>49780589
Being that this is a completely additive feature, the progression of Peaecrafts can be treated seperately from the development of Runner classes. However it should be expected that heavy resource usage will result from developing a Peacecraft class.

Oh! Zieg can be a Sturgeon, help even more people!

>>49780298
Will there be any connection between your class abilities and crating abilities? Like for example someone going [STG] to learn non-magical healing artes, can that knowledge and experience help enhancing their magical healing? Or is it simply easier to keep the two from overlapping?

>>49776610
Great guide!

Confused about one thing though:

In this example, Mage Number 1 is casting Arrow Ring at a range of 5 - the Guide's tile is at a distance of 5 from the caster.

Surely the spell should only have a +3 to range from the arrow component?

File: sturgeon160914.jpg (50KB, 765x490px)

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>>49780298
>>49781153
Does becoming a Sturgeon turn you into a fish face though?

>>49781322
I could probably manage a fish face. It's not like Ziggy is a handsome beast anyway.

>>49781354
All good so long as Ziegfried fish face doesn't get himself zapped and become a deep-fried fish face ^^

>>49781283
Guide sturgeons are not uncommon, when the salve of magic has run dry, resorting to conventional ways are typically a good fallback. As well, the skills of a sturgeon allow them fix more permanent wounds. Watch out if any peacecraft confers any [FieldSkills] as it would normally aide in their occupation.

>>49781476
but how do I build ROBOT ARMS?!

>>49780298
Well, I've been painting Bardo as a shady back alley surgeon. Guess I'll be adding [STG] to my name.

>>49781299
Arrow has a default range of 4, and then Ring by default does not target the central tile but the tiles around it. The Guide's tile is 4 away(diagonals are 1 range when attacking/casting spells, even though they are 2 movement to go through) BallRing fills out the center tile though, so that trick doesn't work.

>>49782569
Arrow has a range of +3 specified in the image in >>49763978
So what is it?

>>49782753
That is the Spell Modifier range. Arrow as a base word has 5 range and does -1 MAGPOW. Arrow as a following word adds 3 range to a spell and -1 MAGPOW.

>>49783118
So does arrow have 4 or 5 base range? And is there a document with the most recent spell info somewhere?

>>49781153

Only if you dispose of the things you cut out in a hygienic manner. And I don't mean 'washing your hands after you've eaten them'.

Or just have a wash in general Zieg you smell like a corpse. Otherwise you'll get the hose once we're back on the Furiosa.

>>49780137
>>49780298

>[VBK]-VeilBreakers use a specialized language to communicate with each other through the unending ainsible networks. As a result their services are second to none when it comes to gathering information, trade requests, and jobs far and away from populated Routes.

Is this the one I want if I want prisoners to 'assist me with my inquires'?

It'll go very well with my skill set.

File: Volga Arms.png (2MB, 1286x1819px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49781654

You don't build them. You barter with your Volgon associates who obtain them via the Volgon Delivery System!

>>49783262
Basic runes explained has been posted here >>49776610

>>49783588
Oh, thanks!
The rune explanation section was easy to miss with a glance.

In this new system would I be able to modify my book so it stays relevant to my level? Or do I still need to visit Cracky at Luxendarc?

The Thousand Arms. ; Lvl 5 ; [Legendary Fake] ; Hidden Skills: Open Book, Page Turn, Close Book

>>49783754
Fortifying a weapon is talked about, usually it leads to an increase in stats [and level] and certain conditions are needed to ultilize it

>>49780351
>One PeaceCraft per Runner
Will we be able to change our minds, switch crafts or something?

>>49784252
yes. if changing your mind converted to pickle jars.
or cups of coffee

File: Hetros chain arts.png (228KB, 601x581px)

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Did some art of Hetros performing chain artes

>>49780298
>[VBK]-VeilBreakers use a specialized language to communicate with each other through the unending ainsible networks. As a result their services are second to none when it comes to gathering information, trade requests, and jobs far and away from populated Routes.

Sounds fun. And I always preferred talking and investigating.

>>49783440
We should go into this together as the party faces. Build a reputation for solid, honorable, reliable work. We should see about getting one or two more to handle other information sources. Especially somebody on the monsterous side of things since me being a Viscount, and you being Volgon, won't help on that front

>>49786224

Im thinking of going veilbreaker

>>49786556
Sounds good to me.

I haven't decided myself just yet but a number of them make sense given Meave's background. I guess I'll see how we're arrayed before picking.

>>49780137

"Ignyllian engineering? Not as good as Volgen engineering, but it will do. Never hurts to learn new techniques I suppose."

>>49788593
given that veilbreaker probably is processing heavy compared to the others, we'll probably only get a limited number of them.

>>49783440
I do wash! I even put vinegar under my armpits and I try to use some very heavy scented soaps! I also wash my clothes and my mask. I'm like the cleanest Ghoul you know! You wound me with your accusations.

>>49785945
Sweet!
You've captured the [Judgement] just right!

Junker Carver Weaver Sturgeon?
Junker would be good for gaining supplies for everyone else, and fit with my roguish sensibilities, but looks to lack direct uses. Carver fits similarly, supplying foodstuff and parts, but bodies are valuable to lots of folks. Weaver could be fun (premade disguises maybe?), but I don't know how I feel about being a seamstress. Sturgeon seems like it'd never be a bad choice, but how effective would a suicidal medic really be?
>Spoiled for choices.

>>49791070

There's plenty of choices but until we know how progression works there's not much to see.

Could you go [ARM] and make a bunch of bombs? It seems it's only limited to bullets and guns.

>>49791400
>>49791070
In the end my friends, you should do what seems fun to you. Our group is mighty and strong. We need not concern ourselves with the best order of things. Simply our passion and drive will allow us to move towards a new tomorrow, more floors, and unknown designs. If you fancy something, go for it above all else.

>>49791438
Also, while these are all great generalizations, nobody except the man in charge knows the specifics yet, so reserve judgement for the time when the specifics are made known.

>>49785945
Will I ever be important enough to get my own fanart?

File: Poka nervous_2.jpg (90KB, 403x412px)

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After her last misshap in the Hunter's Circle basement Poka will most probably take up weaving. She always neglected the study of the ladylike crafts a shame but at least now she might make use of it.

>>49793684
I am sure you will be!

>>49793684
The nice thing about these games is that the turnover rate of high level PCs tends to be fairly high with a few exceptions. So the torch gets passed onto the other people whose characters have survived. For example, when Jackie, our team leader got nixed for a floor due to being captured, even though he was still playing as Dara Dara, his successor, Burkhard was the guy in charge (despite Dara Dara's adorable attempts to usurp control by right of primogeniture or something)

>>49793684
you could do your own fanart anon, is not that difficult, and we always need more drawfags

>>49793684
Easily. You already are. Everyone's important, after all ! And one day you too will live to prosper, with full fury and glorious magnificence. If you're in the wyrd hunt, you're bound to live forever like a hero!

Or die like a chump. Either or. Could go both ways. Happens.

>>49780739
Ah great. Competition.

>>49786224
>solid, honorable, reliable work.

Stairs and stars, I'm working with complete amateurs.

>>49780137
Junker sounds useful, seeing as quite a few of the other [PeaceCrafts] sound like they require some sort of materials to work with (Forge, Armswright, Sturgeon etc.), and with resources becoming more scarce as it is we'll need everything we can get.

>>49796325
Forsooth!
'Junker' they call it, as if any gear that isn't made from polished mithril and dipped in holy water is "junk"! Hah, they'll see what's what when all mithril trees are chopped down and the holy water turns sour!
Take it from a grandiose adventurer: any rotten piece of metal or rusty kettle can aid you against vicious fangs and darkened blades! And with each piece of metal added, you'll hear another satisfying 'clang' as you stride into battle! AHAHA

Now brother Hugo, give me a hand, for we must collect ALL THE SCRAPS!

>>49796528
My mom once called me junk and useless, but I know she never had a good naming sense.

>>49796528
I like your attitude, Sir Nut! After all, there's plenty of decent stuff to be found on the ground: no sense in letting it go to waste.

Keep in mind how even the same base class can deviate wildly. It's easy to imagine no one peace craft will be the same.

>>49795266
>Stairs and stars, I'm working with complete amateurs.
Or you do something incredibly ill advised and get remembered for being the impetus for the party nearly killing themselves. Also for being fluffy.

>>49789051
It's fine. I'll see how we're arrayed before picking.

>>49798154
Oh please, Hetros! That only happened three times. And you're all still beautifully, wonderfully alive.

>>49798579
Three times in almost as many floors since the initial event...

>>49798579
*Cough*'cept-for-the-midians*Cough*

>>49798609
it's a high risk, high reward occupation.

>>49798615
Or Oscar. Or Bloom. Or Gren. We salute your sordid memories.

>-tap thread to bump

As you all might have guessed I elected to take a small break after processing 10 ish turns and will resume around Sunday. In the meanwhile, extensive work is being made to incorporate the new system.

>>49803232
See you then!

Guess we can let the thread die then

>>49805744
Easier if we don't

Its strange, I expected more folks to be interested in Forging. Weapons and armor are the bread and butter of a lot of runners.
Which brings a semi-related question to my mind: will we be able to craft things above our level? Or, more accurately, things of roughly equivalent use as items above our level (because there's nothing saying one way or the other if crafted gear will use the same level system)?
Because if our only Forgewright is a level 2 hunter, how are they gonna do anything for a level 7 knight?
Conversely, do we have to craft at our level, or will that 7th level Knight be able to weave stuff for our 2nd level guide?
>[Carver] Food for thought.

>>49807951
It's actually, from what I've seen of the system, going to be harder to make low level gear than it is to make gear so incredibly high leveled that nobody can use it.

>>49808093
Has the formula changed since the last time it was brought up in the irc? If not all of the filing/balancing will make it pretty easy to keep gear at the appropriate level for the intended recipient.

Oh also, will junking items with abilities give us their shapes as well? If so that'd be a good means for optimizing gear. A balance point for it could be the shapes are item-specific so a wand with an element shape can't bestow that element to armor or a weapon.

>>49807951

1. Crafting above level: Perhaps? This is still being discussed.

2. Crafting below level: Yes, nothing is stopping you from crafting a level 1 sword other than materials.

>>49808284
I more meant that you start off making something rediculously high level and high powered in it's raw state, and then have to take additonal effort to balance it down to lower levels so it can actually be used.

>>49808313
Please don't tell me that filing is a separate action or restricted to a specific crafting class.

>>49808355
you'll have to wait and see until it's done alright? I'm probably already in trouble for answering as much as I have.

Since we have the time: who's planning on recovering their gear from the two remaining chests in the warden's room?

>>49810001

Me.

I want my stash of ammo, snacks, and my binoculars back.

>>49810001

I could really use more ammo.

I would like my ammo stash back.

Aaaaaa-CHOO!

>>49810001
I'm sorta planning on grabbing ane of the boxes entire again. Bring ir with me so that whoever doesn't need to backtrack to get their stuff. That, and a pocketfull of books.

>>49812969
Please leave some of the books for the poor newbie mages

>>49814194
You don't want to make use of the Persican Courier Service? Alright, I guess if you'd rather get down here yourself, I don't mind leaving a book on the ground.

>>49814352
I take my words back very fastly!

>>49810001
"If at all possible, I would like to recover my Scepter of Earth and that Timeworn seed. The former is a very useful tool, and the latter is a very valuable experiment I would like not to go to waste."

>>49810001
I can wait, since Justin has my wand the rest of my gear would be an Oracle staff and a magic flask of llama water filled for 57 uses. Both are valuable but neither are essential.

>>49814581
I also have a ???? book in my inventory right now. I'll examine it the next chance I get.

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>>49808313
Wouldn't that depend on the materials we manage to get?

>>49815584
water might be really valuable and not just because we need it to survive.

>>49818805
The Llama Water is going to be useful for stabilization but I'm pretty sure drinking water can be had from Mages with access to the Aqua element.

another bit is will we see crafting immediately implemented next phase? It'd give us lower levels something to actually do.

What is this some online game or something? Forum RPG?

>>49819873
"Homebrew Specific" / "Skirmish"
Run here

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>>49820013

um thanks for clearing that up for me.

>>49820066
You don't seem satisfied with the answer. Did you need more details? There are archives on suptg and we can post more rules than what you see in the upper parts of this thread.
It's also not a closed game, so if you're interested, you can make a character.

>>49820066

Think of it as a weird chess game where every piece is controlled by a person. Anyone can join at any time. It's not uncommon to have 30 PCs running around. Atm we're a Mercenary group escaping from Hel Prison after being imprisoned for a long ass time and our walking murder machine and kerbold arms dealer blew up our shit.

lookie here for classes and other stuff >>49762852 >>49763978 >>49764002

Here's a pastebin wtih some other shit http://pastebin.com/LuatcHLb

>>49820129
There's the moneyshot thanks. Now I can make some sense of this.

>>49820129
Hush, I only blew up some of our stuff. Kinda.

>>49820171
Turn based tactical wargame where every player controls a piece rather than controlling a regiment. Imagine Warhammer, if your pieces were players. That's the ticket.

Other incarnations include Skirmish Ques (FAR FUUTUUREE), Iron Hearts (MAGICAL WORLD WAR 2), Mecha Mercs (MERCENARIES IN MECHA), Wonderful Days (HIGH OCTANE HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTOUTS) Exfil / Infil (CYBERPUNK SHENANIGANS) and Vanguard (SOMETHING SOMETHING ON THE MOOOOOON). Different people, different things.

It's usually jolly good fun.

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Old but outdated. We stopped allowing our mages to use the wrong runes with their books.

>>49820850
Old but gold*

>>49820850
>>49820897
Well.
The fact that's distinctly worrying.

>>49820066
you can also check out our character gallery
at >>49770348

>>49823142
[Note that I didn't draw that.]

>>49823142
Please do. It's awesome.

>>49823627
You DID draw the inspiration, though - and all the sprites. So that counts.

>>49820850

There's enough instances of incompetence to make a whole gallery of those. And it's usually from people forgetting cardinal directions.

>>49824594
There's also the common instance of 'I thought it was a good idea at the time' too.

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>>49824594

Mmmm, sweet, sweet incompetence.

>>49826384
>>49824594
Don't forget the mage taking out everyone's only route of escape during that one mission in Ironhearts.

>>49828504
Well it's a good thing this doesn't happen anymore.

...Right?

>>49831258

>doesn't happen anymore

I have a bit of a question for mechanics.

Currently you get a level from surviving a Floor. You also get a level from Assisting versus a Floor Boss.

In order to qualify as assisting versus a Floor Boss, you need to have somehow... assisted. Exactly how is a bit vague, but usually some class feature or something.

I wanted to ask if there's any particular reason that isn't simply "The Wyrd Hunt gains levels by surviving a floor and for defeating a Floor Boss?"

What I mean is that in the battle versus the Chimera for instance, Hetros was off somewhere near the stairs. Other people were fighting demons. Playing a pretty integral part of the entire Floor 5, but because they didn't get to make a single attack against the Chimera, no boss level.

if Goya counts as a boss, then Livia who can phase through walls and attack-on-movement headbutts and gets a level, and Zieg who berserks and hits it a lot gains a level but few others has the reach or time to get there and get off their "get me a level" attack or assist. This seems like a weird thing.

There are also some classes like Guides casting through Wards or Mages casting through Drawn Runes that just have a plain easier time getting in their "assist" hit than other classes who have to physically manevour across the entire map in a limited span of time. A militia on the other side of a wall has no real way of getting in their "marker" hit, whereas simply drawing in a rune on the ground allows every mage on the map to fire through it. If their spells do no damage, no problem, they still count as having assisted.

It leads to very gamey behaviour, maxizing the chance that you get in that one hit that counts, dealng with a kind of game mechanical logic rather than the game itself.

Would it possible to change it so that "If a floor boss is defeated, wyrd hunters present on map gain level" instead? It's an immediate boost to all the low levels who need it the most and it kinda works better.

>>49832396
I would support this.

One thing to remember in this is that encountering the boss doesn't make the rest of the map disappear like it would in a more linear game. Even if the level design is meant to have the boss be at the very end with the number of abilities around as well as crushing abilities it is very easy to sequence break. So suddenly we aren't just fighting the Warden, we also have 4 marooned facing 3 rogues down a narrow hallway as well as Goya all at once.

We can't support our rogues because Goya is in between us and them, and suddenly we're all covered in ice because people were dealing with Goya more then the Warden. The entire group was effected by Goya even if they didn't contribute directly to the Goya fight and that I believe is worth the level reward.

>>49832396
Bringing in an idea on how subfloors were initially made to work and how that could be improved to provide a stop-gap against newbies not being able to contribute for multiple floors at a time.

Given that there's no possible way that this level of the floor is the only one, newbies of say levels 1-2 who survive until the next floorplan/map gain a level. Once they hit level 3 they can only gain levels via boss interaction and surviving full floors like everyone else. Maybe also restrict it that they can't go advanced using these levels in order to prevent sprite reworks and additional processing on Mondays part.

>>49832732

Or, the group could try not to fragment itself like it usually does.

Yes, you could make the case that the current level didn't help, but there certainly wasn't any noticeable effort to get everyone in one spot. At most there were small pockets of coordination to break free from cells or deal with local threats, but it didn't look as if anyone told the guys in the southern cells to go meetup with the rest of the crew instead of diving into the unknown.

>>49835146
There was an effort to do exactly that. Then a ghoul busted through a wall and suddenly: Goya Boss Fight. Start!

>>49832396
Even though I was on the wrong side of it before, I don't mind it not being that everybody gets a level if they didn't fight the floor boss.

Keep in mind, the Floor bosses are 90% of the time purely optional.

You don't -have- to fight them, in fact, it's detrimental to fight them because you want to get out of the floor with as many turns left as possible.

And keep in mind, if you reach the stairs, and head up them, regardless of what happens to the rest of the players? You get out. You live. So if the party chooses to fight the floor boss and dies from it, but a few people get off the map? They survive and get out, but no level.

Or you could be off making items, or doing what I was doing, which was fighting off demons to hold the line against demons invading the stairs and us taking the blame yet again.

I didn't fight the Chimera, I had no reason to get those levels from fighting it.

>>49835354
There really wasn't... or rather, our efforts to coordinate ourselves stalled hard after a certain point.

>>49835402
Wait they are optional?!

>>49835416
Yes, it was stalled, by the fact that we suddenly had two people bleeding out because Goya decided to start the fight. We certainly weren't planning on confronting him with just 2 people. This fight wasn't optional because we ran into him blindly.

>>49835434
Not really. Goya is right in our escape path. As for the others I mean I certainly wasn't going to abandon Luxendarc to the pumpkins and Ouroborous's plans. Nor did we have a choice in facing The Board of Education. The only really optional boss was the Chimera.

>>49835434
Uh, yeah? We never had to kill that Chimera, that was never a thing we needed to do, we literally could have just gone straight for the stairs.

Same deal with almost every boss monster we've faced. I mean, not 100% of the time, Luxendarc is an exception, but the point remains. The only non-optional thing, is to get to the stairs as quickly as possible with as many runners as we can. Anything else is secondary.

>>49835468
>>49835469
You are both exposing new things for Ziegfried Kirbyers to learn and ponder about...

>>49835468
>Not really. Goya is right in our escape path. As for the others I mean I certainly wasn't going to abandon Luxendarc to the pumpkins and Ouroborous's plans. Nor did we have a choice in facing The Board of Education. The only really optional boss was the Chimera.
Luxendarc stuff was debatable. We could have bailed and left them to their fate. But we also weren't running away.

Board of Education is -highly- debatable on being optional. We were running the turns down to nearly 0 by the time we left, and when it comes right down to it, even then we had to decide on if we were going to just leave with the ship or risk everything to save the crew.

You guys didn't, I think, kill both reapers in Lanternreap.

And then there's the deal that Goya, while he was in the way, was hardly necessary to defeat. We have entirely circumvented his chamber via our Kerbold friend Trigger.

There are plenty of ways to have avoided all of those bosses. Killing them is not necessary to advance in any way, shape, or form.

>>49835584
Well it wasn't so bad....We've had worst.

>>49835584
Most bosses put themselves in our path to the stairs. Not fighting them simply means giving them free opportunity to strike us down while we try to run past them. The Reapers of LanternReap were like that. And yes we did indeed kill both Reapers. The Board of Education was like that, The Pumpkins of Luxendarc were like that.

And Goya is like that.

I don't call that optional. Its either fight or die.

>>49835647
Yeaaaaaah! *stomach rumbles* Fight or die! Also lunch!

>>49835647
I completely disagree. Goya was not in our path at all. The board of education wasn't actually in our path either, we just never pressed further north or around it once it had pulled itself out of the darkness, we never had any proof that you coudn't keep going into the darkness.

Floor Bosses are optional, full stop. They are not a necessary condition to leave the floor, even when they put themselves in our path it is possible to circumvent them.

You seem to be conflating 'we all get out alive' with 'necessary' which is not the case. Necessary is only that a good portion of us, or really, any of us at all, escape up the stairs.

Everything else is a bonus. Killing a floor boss makes it easier, in many ways, to make it through a floor, but it's not a victory condition.

Trying to tell people it -is- a necessary condition is silly, and obtuse. There will be times when we have to just run past the floor boss most likely, times when we put ourselves at significant risk just to survive because time is our greatest foe at that moment rather than the physical beings we face.

>>49835744

It's a good thing you're not the leader of this game. You seem pretty shit.

>>49835744
Go to the previous thread. Scroll up to where we first see Goya. Goya awakens and immediately attacks us.

Turn 1 after awakening. Justin is bound.
Turn 2 after awakening. Justin is bleeding out. Kail is bleeding out.

That was not avoidable.

As for the Board of Education, there was no avoiding it for the eastern group. The only path we had available was running along it for over 20 squares. It would have had plenty of time to pick us off.

Again that was not avoidable.

>>49835797
That specifically wasn't avoidable. But nobody said anything about the rest of you needing to Fight Goya at that point. You could have take Trigger's tunnels through the walls and around him while those of us who got ourselves into that fix distracted Goya and died horribly. That was a possible outcome, not the one I'd have preferred certainly because me, Justin, and Kail would certainly be dead, but it WAS on the table.

It was not NECESSARY to save us. It was preferable that you do so. But if we'd been at 4 turns and in generally the same situation, nobody would have blamed the rest of you guys for throwing us to Goya and getting the hell out of dodge.

>>49835791
There's a difference between recognizing what is necessary and what is preferable. Preferable is beating every floor boss, saving every life, keeping everyone moving forward.

Necessary is that most of us make it to the stairs.

>>49835864
Keep in mind, this is not really a debate of opinion. I pretty much think my character is expendable compared to everyone else's because my job as a hunter is to support everyone else.

That doesn't mean I'm not realistic about what is mechanically our victory conditions. Our victory condition is literally 'as many people as possible reach the stairs in as short an amount of time as possible' because if we don't reach the stairs before all of our turns run out, we all die. TPK, everything we've tried to achieve is done. Reroll the campaign, everything ends.

Killing bosses helps avoid that. It doesn't make it possible in the first place. Killing bosses is strictly optional. Incredibly helpful, but optional.

That said, I'm all for killing off as many bosses as we can, ESPECIALLY when we have turns to burn and they're in the easiest path for us to take. But I don't pretend it's anything but a choice we are making. Killing a boss doesn't unlock the stairs.

If lives are on the line and the fighting the boss means saving those lives then as far as I'm concerned the boss fight is not optional.

>>49836121

Best boss laying down the law.

No man or monster is left behind!

>>49835744
>>49835864

Levels by far are the most important thing to us. They facilitate abilities, advanced classes and more importantly gear. With both the additional HP upon level and crafting coming into the mix, levels will only become more important.

Reaching the next floor does us no good if we are not prepared to deal with the threats we will see, due to lack of abilities, gear or now HP. If anything we should go out of our way to fight bosses and try to get as many members credit as possible.

>>49836005

This is entirely a debate of opinion. You voiced your opinion on how things should be, and Jackie said otherwise.

>>49836121
I'm not arguing the moral weight of what you're saying.

But do not lie to people and say that fighting bosses is absolutely necessary. If you do not explain why it isn't, then you rob the fights of the moral worth of actually having fought them for those lives.

>>49836200
We fight them because they are trying to kill us. It is absolutely necessary to fight them so we don't die.

>>49832396
If i did this. I would have no reason to limit the power of floor bosses at all. It will be assumed that it takes the entire 30 people to kill them even if only 15 are present for the fight and were willing.

>>49836200

But they did. Our comrades were in danger and we rescued them. If we try running away there's always a chance of a boss getting a couple of cheap shots and taking a couple of people out.

>>49836259
Even now? With Goya? Goya had no idea about most of the rest of the party, he'd be drawn into the direction we had gone, and run into that giant pit, giving everyone time to run away.

Necessary has a very real meaning. Necessary things have no moral weight because they are necessary to advance, you do them out of self interest because if you don't, you die.

If bosses are optional, fighting them to save our comrades is a laudable thing, a morally just thing. Necessary things are never good or evil, they just are.

>>49836345
You are wrong, in the fact that you find going up the stairs more important then the lives of those who would die because of it. Without Kail and Justin the Wyrd Hunt would be greatly weakened for the following floor. We will need them.

If we had gone on to Floor 3 from the Board of Education with half our group missing the Volgons would have won. Yig would have been summoned as I would be dead and unable to stop Harold. If we had not stopped the pumpkins there would be no Paladin, no Lux Pact, no shinobi.

You are wrong.

>>49836387
And plenty of runners -do- those things. They leave wreckage and ruin in their wake. They keep going and they just focus on their own survival above all else.

That is all that is -necessary- and they survive because of it. That doesn't mean it is not better to take risks, to do the right thing, and we reap rewards for doing so, but it is not -necessary- to do so, and to claim that it is robs all virtue from the actions.

>>49836426
Those runners eventually end up alone, and then they die anyway. Because they've left behind too many people. You might call that necessary, I call that sad and pitiable.

>>49836241

Can we get a clarification on what consists of a boss assist?

The simplest way to get boss credit is to damage the boss, but some bosses are impervious to attacks by low level characters. There's also the risk of dying more easily to attacks.

One way to help without damaging the boss is to contribute to the fight. For guides that's as easy as healing other players. For rogues that's getting items to other runners. How can other classes contribute, or more importantly what is considered contributing?

In my case I got Justin a wand and made chalk for Livia to draw a ward for the guides to save Justin after he was downed. I can argue that my actions contributed toward the boss fight but what about other cases? Would Heinrich get credit for shielding other characters? What about a low level attempting to attack but dealing no damage?

>>49836345
>>49836426

Give it a rest already. Even if you're right, no one cares to follow your way of going about it.

>>49836437
I do too, and you are twisting my words. I don't say what they do is necessary, I say the do ONLY what is necessary.

THat is the difference. Doing bosses is not necessary, but not doing bosses is also not necessary. It is optional.

Saving lives is not necessary within certain limits, but NOT saving them is also not necessary. It is a moral choice specifically BECAUSE it is optional.

Most of those runners retire to the first town they reach. They do no more than is necessary, and they are limited because of it.

Doing more than what is necessary is good, it's even important, but it is not -necessary- and trying to claim that it is will lead us into far more problems than being realistic and admitting that what we are doing is purely optional and we choose to do it anyway.

Sorry, you are wrong. When lives are on the line the boss is no longer optional.

>>49836486
>>49836503
"gentleman, woman...Please calm down we are all runners here...We kill so that we may live another day..And while it may not be necessary it is our duty, as human beings and within our humanity. To save anyone that can be saved."

>>49836503
then saving lives is a matter of course rather than morally laudible. There is literally no other option we could take as a team, ever. We have to fight that boss, and either win, all die fighting it, or the mal comes up and eats us all.

Simply no other option exists.

>>49836549
"My good man let me say this, if you were in danger and you were put in a position were it would be of some danger to us to save you...Would you sacrifice yourself to save us the trouble?"
*inches towards hetros staring at him*

>>49836573
Assuming that the choice was between that and everyone else being eaten by the mal because they came back for me rather than getting to the stairs? Yes.

>>49836241
Sure. That's not a problem. That's the situation as it is right now anyway. A boss is too powerful for a single character, so the moment its engaged everyone else is already incentivized to drop everything and help. Fighting it alone kills you. Fighting it with friends means you win and get a level. No boss can credibly kill everybody, so the only thing you're left with is losing out if you aren't lucky enough to qualify as assisting.

Scaling bosses so they're meant to be fought by everyone, but then also benefits everyone if slain actually makes them more optional. Either everyone agrees we do this thing now, or it's impossible. And the calculus there is "Do we have enough time". It also means you can split up and say Group A secure the stairs while group B fights the boss, and the team works together. With the current structure, anyone who isn't directly shooting at the boss losses out even if there are a bunch of other things that still need to get done, which is bad incentives.

Scale them up and make them more frightening, and make the benefits if slain apply to everyone. Then that's actually an optional target people have to decide whether it's worth engaging

>>49836906
gonna say that that makes it less optional, as levels are too strong, and a universal level up for everyone in the party on a floor, automatically boosting all newbies into adepts, makes it such a much more potent target that the party will go after them for the power boost of having killed them every time, rather than deciding if it's worth their own character to do it.

I dunno though, it depends on if we're ever put into a position where fighting the boss actually is optional as far as the party is concerned. As you can see, even now, the party largely considers boss battles necessary regardless of the truth of that.

>>49837041
Well, they consider them neccessary because they are.

The Reapers in Lanternreap Killed 2 people and have enough movement to catch up to everyone. They also blocked access to the stairs.

The Board of Education blocked access to the stairs and its minions killed people.

Pest Control / Yig had everyone pinned down and blocked our escape.

The Giant Pumpkin, The Pumpkin Dragon, The Deep Weasel and the giant rotting monster in Luxendarc were blocking mission objectives, the town itself and in one gourdy case literally the stairs themselves. They also attacked from 3 different directions, trapping everyone.

Goya was in the path of everyone in the middle chamber. Escaping the long way around would be taking 5-6 turns, while dodging enemies and attacks.

The Lesser King Kerkal took up 20% of the map, beelined straight for people and spat out monsters everywhere. No one could outrun it.

The only optional boss that has actually been 100% optional, avoidable and nowhere near the stairs nor able to catch up has been the Chimera.

I appreciate not wanting to die needlessly fighting thing stronger than you, but you are just not correct when you say that:

>Floor Bosses are optional, full stop. They are not a necessary condition to leave the floor, even when they put themselves in our path it is possible to circumvent them.

Every boss but the Chimera has universally been more mobile, possessed of more acts and stronger than any player character. Outrunning them, circumventing them or avoiding them when they're in your path isn't actually an option. If you turn your back and try to get away, they'll just use their superior range, mobility and firepower to attack you in the back. And now your shield bonus and gear won't help.

Spending 3-4 turns trying to outrun a potential boss is no good if that means losing a life per turn.

>>49837244
Let's take Goya as an example.
> because me, Justin, and Kail would certainly be dead, but it WAS on the table.

So that's 3. Then Goya smashes 1-2 people with range 8 chains. Goya does this again. Again. Again. By now everyone is out of range. Either Goya follows (and remember, Goya can follow). By now a few more people are dead. At which point does a person draw the line an say "Okay, this clearly isn't working?". Running away from a more mobile target that outranges you is more commonly called "suicide".

As a game mechanical thing I'm all for *optional* rewards for *optional* objectives. But in the game as presented, as it has been, in the game we have been playing, these monsters have not been optional, the rewards have not been optional and the choice to take them have not been an optional choice you decide to pick because you had the option.

Not getting a level from the Chimera is actually fine - that was an immobile creature on the corner of the map people could have chosen to avoid.

>gonna say that that makes it less optional, as levels are too strong, and a universal level up for everyone in the party on a floor, automatically boosting all newbies into adepts, makes it such a much more potent target that the party will go after them for the power boost of having killed them every time, rather than deciding if it's worth their own character to do it.

That's the point. If you know you can't take them alone, the choice has to be made by everyone. If you want optional bosses where picking a fight is a choice, that's one viable solution where a choice needs to be made.

And upon managing to defeat a boss, I'm not sure why everyone shouldn't benefit. It's a boss! Good on us for beating it. Sad if everyone died fighting it, but then, they're meant to be optional. If they're too strong - make it so beating a hasty retreat is actually also possible.

In the end I'm not the GM; I just wanted to bring up something I've wondered about for a bit.

Who's looking forward to crafting? What sort of shenanigan builds are people imagining?

>>49836447
Boss assists are quite easy to measure using these processing articles I tend to use.

I.If one was to infiltrate the Boss's Lair where a fight would surely take place it's an automatic in.
If the boss was not found within their lair then article I is invalid and the honor of its inclusion goes to those who discovered or encountered the boss.
II. If one damaged, hampered, or menaced a killing blow it's an automatic in.
III. If one was damaged or had defended bodily the boss's onslaught it's an automatic in.
IV. If one aided or rescued those who were harmed or prevented harm from and during the Boss's onslaught AND it's an automatic in.
V. And finally, upon defeat of the boss and only upon defeat of the boss, those who were in duly gets credit for aiding in the slaying of such a nemesis. Killing the boss however ends the Onslaught.
Guides sometimes go remote and that's fine if they contributed by healing or buffy participants.

Rogues assisting could consist of getting items or runners to and from the fight which puts them in article 1.

Mages, Hunters, Militia, need only damage or debuff from range.

Knights should have no problem judging whether or not they've fought according to article 1.

Here's an idea.
How about no bonus level for boss fights. This way I don't have to listen to people whine when they 'miss out.'

>>49839134
It would slow down progression and give less of a reason to take on bosses. Essentially means bosses who are already in the way have less of a reward for forcefully removing them from the field.

Overall there's no reason to remove a benefit just for the sake of you not hearing about the complaints, Norin.

>>49839199
I believe the sarcasm there was.
" You take this system the way it is or we do away with it entirely "

I would not blame monday if he did.

>>49832396
Here is my two cents

I will probably be the minority here but I always considered it would be beneficial for the team n general if veterans would not get the extra credit for bosskills, instead they either get their +level for bosskill or survival. Naturally veteran players are expected to be the ones spearheading the advances and take the mainstay of the most dangerous encounters, so they will be the ones doing the heavy lifting no matter what.

Since new players are in danger of instant death at bosses they will likely not be able to do big damage to it they are probably better off staying away and supporting by other means.
How about new players, random example: say level 3-4 or under, will automatically get the extra bosskill credit regardless of their proximity or contribution to it. Since levels are the most valuable resource this would save the newcomers the dangers of facing something way out of their leagues and allow them to focus efforts where they actually can make a difference. However they are still motivated to help the vets in defeating the boss because if the boss doesn't get defeated both vets and newcomers will lose out. But this way newcomer will be given a better chance to earn their levels and make a difference later.

Obviously the losers here will be the veterans who do not get +1 extra level from the bosskill. Veterans in turn will get the compensation of the loot from the bosskills, since boss drops are usually too high level for newcomers to use anyways. Veterans however can use the boss loot and they can potentially hand down their old gear to the newcomers as they climb the ladder.
Now this would slow down the top end progression in general, has both good and bad sides.
This would be bad for the veteran players, they need the levels to gain more awesome abilities even more to keep up with the growing power of the enemy and this will reduce their encouragement to put their lives at stake for the team.

>>cont

>>49839653
>cont

This would be good for newcomers because they can catch up faster and they would be less pressed to rush to Adv.Classes or becoming monsters to climb the power ladder. (Side note: I think that becoming midian was never intended to be a catch up mechanism for power but it seems to be becoming one.) Good for the team coherence because the gap between the top end and bottom end will shrink faster in time and ideally there should be a larger pool of intermediate level characters. Good for the developer because he will have an easier time in creating encounters and less top end content creation is required/floor like new classes/skills/items/options for the top end players.

>>49839653
the issue I have with that is that it's really against the spirit of the game, you don't get something for nothing in this system. I'd prefer it if bosses gave bonus levels to newbies who risked themselves and simply didn't give them to veterans at all rather than a system where people can get rewarded when not participating.

>>49839699
>>you don't get something for nothing in this system.
You can join at the last turn of a game only to spawn at the ending turn and still earn your level for surviving the floor.

>>49839734
Yeah but you can only do it once. The system you outlined could be abused over and over again to close the gap potentially... especially if the highest levels keep growing and keep expanding the gap.

>>49839741
So if I am level 2 and see a floor thread and lurk and wait and then join only at the ending turn I do not get the survival credit?

>>49839758
why would you do that repeatedly? To what point? You'll not get anything else... and the party won't support you with goods or zenny or anything else. There's no point to leveling up if you're not going to play the game.

>>49839800
You are absolutely correct, I wouldn't and probably nobody would because it has no point, I just wished to illustrate that if discard the other blatantly obvious things you listed it is still possible to gain something for nothing.

>>49839653
Oh, I quite like that.

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Have some floors for Floors that can spell 'floors' or 'fjoors' depending on how you look at it. More will be added when there's time for it.

>>49839653
>>49839659
I like this idea. It ends up being a good means of getting newbies up to speed while forcing the level gaps to close a bit.

>>49839653
>Since new players are in danger of instant death at bosses they will likely not be able to do big damage to it they are probably better off staying away and supporting by other means.
>How about new players, random example: say level 3-4 or under, will automatically get the extra bosskill credit regardless of their proximity or contribution to it. Since levels are the most valuable resource this would save the newcomers the dangers of facing something way out of their leagues and allow them to focus efforts where they actually can make a difference. However they are still motivated to help the vets in defeating the boss because if the boss doesn't get defeated both vets and newcomers will lose out. But this way newcomer will be given a better chance to earn their levels and make a difference later.

>No.

>>49840382

Let me expand. A catch up mechanism that trivializes interactions an encounter with a floorboss more than it already does will make Floor bosses a happy event. A positive outcome. A challenge.

They need to be the reason you run from a floor. And they need to be in the perfect position to destroy high level players.

Let me tell you something about turn 5 and 6.
Goya is capable of attacking twice in one action. He has dual wielding chains. Striking someone once has the effect of dealing of 13 heavy damage. Kail, your most heavily armored unit in the game has 9 armor. But the attack type renders that down to 4. He would take 9 damage a turn. He died on the first salvo, and likely died got swept up on the next.

That we are talking about floor bosses as a source of reward is troubling. I regret letting certain people live.

Thank you for reminding me what I should have done 3 turns ago.

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>>49840419
You've just killed us all people.

>>49838719

Thanks for clarifying that.

>>49839852
Zieg get's a lot of stuff for nothing. He only eats and he naturally get's stronger. It's like living the dream.

>>49840419
I wish to better get to know my class, or at least the condition of ghouldom to better roleplay it later. I'm not sure if I should assume I am a very fonctional undead or more of a cursed being or even someone infected who's physionomy has changed. Sometimes a hard to kill zombie and other times a very mutable G-Virus like being.

>>49841011
Ghouls are kind of both 'very functional undead' and 'someone infected.'

Monday is streaming art on twitch for the next little bit. Channel : mondaydestroy

>>49840419
And this is exactly why I wanted to emphasize that bosses are optional and not a matter of course x-x because anything else, seeing them as level pinatas, was going to end up like this.

Protip for everyone here who doesn't know this, Monday subscribes to the game design philosophy of "Games of War" rather than "Games of Sport" (something me and Poka subscribe too). That is to say, a game's fun is derived not from the game, itself, being fun, but from the game being as challenging as possible so that winning is not easy, and fun is derived from overcoming that challenge.

>>49840419

>A catch up mechanism that trivializes interactions an encounter with a floorboss more than it already does will make Floor bosses a happy event. A positive outcome. A challenge

But, that's exactly how you presented them for the last 4 floors Monday, at no point was there a 'run from this' sign, at no point did you make it seem like it was an optional challenge, you didn't /communicate/ this.

It's literally point A in nearly every single game of this kidney out there that if there is a big boss on a floor you have to beat it to move on and you don't undo years of ingrained player training like that by /not/ mentioning this.

But why not have a cool boss fight that the players have to beat within a time limit? What you intended when you made the bosses might not have turned out how you wanted it to, but it has ended up making the game better because of it. Is this /really/ a bad thing? A mistake was made, and it accidentally added a cool thing to the game but you want to undo it because... What? You wanted to make the game harder?

The game ramping up in difficulty on a sheer curve until it was more of a chore then a game and everyone who wasn't stupid OP had trouble surviving because it was scaled to deal with Stupid OP is why I got conniptions from Floor 5.

>>49846519

I dont get why this is baffling. Of course it is.

You have succeeded in every instance of fighting a boss so far. Don't let me stop you.

Dont

Let Me.

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As per October Tradition, Skirmish makes its way to celebrating its 6th year so a big drawing gets made for no reason !

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>>49846949

My how time flies

I brought this up before when roles of classes was being talked about. While this doesn't match this situation, it should be something we try and hold in the back our minds going on.

Knights, Knight advanced classes, and even a bit of guide-Paladins have means to tank damage. They generally have the highest armour, especially with the inclusion of Unshakable Tera, have a skill that negates damage and another skill that gives stun. They are tanks and front liners for a reason. Yes, they're slow, but we have means to fix that. Hunters with chains, rogues picking up and moving them, navigator(s) giving them an act, haste pulse and possible other buffs.

Even new & early players of knights can be vastly more survivable than other members, a good example of this would be the Chimera fight last floor, or even a bit on the subfloor with Justin. Hell the demon fight with Jenny showed how powerful counter really is.

Please let the front line, and the knights do their job, especially with all the talk of increasing danger. We have the means to approach threats.

>>49846949

Thank you for the wonderful drawing, and continuing to pour effort in to everything you've run.

>>49846949
> Ps. Skirmishes official anniversary is halloween. With 11 Days remaining let's fight our way to freedom :vc

>>49846949
Aw Verbal looks adorable, and Zieg and Trigger and...and...

Thank you Monday, for all your hard work and this wonderful game!

>>49846949
LOVE.

>>49846949
AWESOME! Keep up the good work!

>>49846949
Absolutely beautiful! Even better than when I left the stream.

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>>49846949
Glorious.

>>49849332

Perfect adaptation man. Love it

>>49849332
Sick party, I just came for the food.

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>>49847004

>I can't wait to see how the new kids will stack up against bugs

>>49846949
I don't participate in these threads, but the visual stuff has always been pretty cool.

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>>49846949
OOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!
Is that Pokaaa? Damnit why is she standing in the front lines? Oh wait, this is us, the Wyrd Hunt so never mind.

>>49847004
>>49847266
Happy Birthday Skirmish games! Thank you for all the insane work you have put into this crazy endeavor just for us in these past years. You are truly an inspiration! Gosh I didn't even know about this... I should have made some a present.

Well I do have this lying around
http://imgur.com/a/IGVkM

>>49854512

Will the presents be llama-themed?

>>49857192
Skirmish was never born. It was only celebrated with death :v

>>49857279
So it's pumpkin themed instead? Each present containing a surprise! Sometimes deadly!

>>49859023
Are we getting zenny investments for advertising runner shoes now? Cause I want some of that action.

>>49861522
I think we'd definitely could sell the rights for 'Run with us' as a tagline for jogging gear.

[R]Don't just run, steal the race. Rogue Footwear.
[A] Why run, when you can run with Style? Magnate Sporting Goods.
[K]Run secure in this season's line of Knight Equipment. Protective Gear for all your sporting needs.
[G][Y] Vitae, the energy drink that will breathe new life into any professional runner. Also try our new energy bar, Corpus Vitae.
[N] Find your own path with the Navigators, running shoes by Schola Athletics.

>>49862208
[M] Blow away your competition with these magical beauties!

>>49862208

[I] March in lockstep, with Reiche. Volgon's Premier Sportswear (Buy our shoes and get [Double Time] for absolutely free)

Is it possible to still join this or is it too late?

>>49863819
I do believe that you can join anytime! Just be careful to not lose your head!

>>49863839
Wouldn't want to get ahead of ourselves.

>>49863880
Don't worry, if someone blows their top, the rest of us will stick our necks out to help shoulder the burden.

>>49863819
>>49863839
Sure we aren't at player cap for this floor?

>>49864164

Considering last phase I'm assuming there will be plenty of room

>>49864164
Two open slots last I saw.

>>49863819
It'll be fine, Cranial Case. Not on the map for the moment, but once we do you are of course just as welcome as the rest of these maddened folk.

How will PeaceCrafting be put in? Do players just pick something and get them, or will there be some kind of unlocking or training process?

>>49868001
FOr lack of a better explanation you will encounter more floors in the Prison in which this will all be revealed.

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>>49869246
Okay, so for now, we just gather materials like we did before?

>>49869438
Even wit hthe information I exposed gathering things now will of course be impractical but not unwarranted.