Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>>49760069
Tell me about the Grimtotem.

Why do they wear the paint?

Is Maiev still dead ?

>>49760236
She's never been dead.

>>49760525
I was sure Malfurion killed her when he found out that she was the one killing the highborns.

>>49760640
She's one of the core characters of Legion.

>>49760091
Baine?

File: C'Thun.jpg (2MB, 3000x4000px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3000x4000px

>tfw these threads have taught me to, whenever I have depressing thoughts, reframe them as whispers from the Old Gods and tell them to knock it off

Now if only the technique was working.

So to get back on topic, how do you guys feel about N'raqi, Mantid, Nerubians, and Qiraji?

File: yW.gif (2MB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x375px

>>49760069
>best girl in OP
YOU'VE MADE ME ONE HAPPY ANON, ANON.

>>49758978
This is my canon. It's perfectly lewd.

What's your favorite moment so far in the new expansion.

>>49761217

DKs slapping Liadrins ass.

Being virtually unkillable as a Vengeance DH with the 4 piece set that reduces damage when you are low on health

Ashes of Al'ar finally dropped after nearly a decade.

>>49761217
Being a Warlock and doing the quest for the Scepter of Sargeras.
Pretending to join Gul'dan so we can steal the literally world-shattering artifact that's already in his possession.
Only for us to go home with this weapon of untold power and go back to being treated like the red-headed stepchildren of the expansion.
Fuck you, Blizzard. And fuck your little emo mary sue faggots.

>>49761276
>Ashes of Al'ar finally dropped after nearly a decade.
Same for me with the white chocobo.

>>49761286
>Warlocks being anything but dupes who use demon power because they can't into real magic

Yeah, nah, yer a cunt.

File: 1470259980221.jpg (61KB, 521x559px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 521x559px

>>49761493
Go whine about "muh sacrifice" some more because you took a little baby sip of the Fel Kool-Aid.
Meanwhile Warlocks guzzle that shit.

File: water earth fire air.gif (990KB, 500x315px) Image search: [Google]

990KB, 500x315px

>>49761528
>guzzling or even sipping the Mountain Dew
>drinking Titan blood like >>49761493
>not being the Avatar

Who /shaman/ here?

>>49761493
You do know faction warlocks and legion warlocks work differently, right?

Legion locks make all the pacts they want but are ultimately butt slaves to any decently powerful demon who calls them.
Faction locks bind demons (multiple) to their will and constantly impose their power over them.

Add to the fact that all warlocks have to literally be masters of other classes before becoming what they are and you realize they are probably the single most powerful PCs in the game.
Meanwhile some faggot gouges out his eyes and puts a single (as in one) demon in his body and thinks he can do anything.Banish is still a spell retard

who's writting wow lore currently?

>>49761909
I wonder how buttmad a demon hunter roleplayer would get if you try to banish them.

>>49762136
*it was just an illusion*
*unsheaths Muramas*
*teleports behind you*
Heh, nothin personell kid...

Speaking of warlocks, would a warlock have the ability to cram their own soul into another body via fel magic bullshittery?

>>49762215
Probably? They pretty much created the first DKs like that, though they used another warlock's soul to possess the dead humans, not their own.

>>49761068
Just remember that Arthas turned DK because his horse died, always makes me laugh.

>>49760640
That's been retconned. Also she never died she escaped then too

>>49762412
Bloody Cloak of Skill.

>>49761738
I cry everytime blizzard decides to nerf us from average to shit every patch.

Hurr durr elemental shamans are shit better buff them a little bit but now they perform as well as the other ranged classes! *proceeds to buff every other ranged class even more*

>>49762279
No that's exactly what they did, it just requires a third party (or a clever warlock) if they want to do it to themselves.

>>49762136
to be honest I'd kind of enjoy it, but I try to RP my demon hunter as a pretty chill dude.
Because the smug bastard actually got some of that moon priestess booty

>>49756714
>But come on, Strom'kar can't be that bad. It's King Thoradin's sword.

So? King Thoradin is a Literally Who?-tier character. Just because it was his sword doesn't suddenly make it cool. Thoradin is just barely a character.

Not only that, but the sword looks like fucking shit.

I would rather have had TROL'KALAR, the original trollslaying sword of the ancient human warlords rather than the cheap knockoff. I would rather have the Axe of Cenarius, Varian's elfblades, Gorehowl, or fucking anything with some established history and relevance to the story of Warcraft.

Strom'kar is nothing more than some piece of shit that was pulled out of some random developer's ass because they felt that the Axe of Cenarius (being technically made of wood) wasn't "badass" enough for the player character even though it was strong enough to cut Sargeras.

The only people who defend Strom'kar are retarded human fanboys who think eating whatever shit that falls from Blizzard's asshole is fine so long they get their boring not!viking lore.

>>49762910
>axe of cenarius
>broxigar
go and stay go.
Knaak's OCs are cancer and you should feel bad for liking them.

>>49763109

Man, fuck off, you dumb nigger. Just because I think the Axe of Cenarius is a better alternative to Strom'kar doesn't mean I like it.

But hey, don't let me stop you from completely ignoring the point of my post just so you could bash Knaak. Wouldn't want you to miss out on some sweet "lore cred" by making fun of the easiest target around. You've really demonstrated you know a lot about the setting now after saying "Knaak is shit."

Congrats, dumbass.

>>49763182
>muh oc donut steel axe made of wood that was lost
>but it hurt sargeras because of reasons.
Blizzard has been distancing themselves from everything Knaak has made and for good reasons.

A weapon like strom'kar isn't necessarily a bad weapon, especially as it was used by THE warrior who unified the human tribes and settled in the eastern kingdoms and secured a homeland for humanity. It is a far better lore weapon than an axe that knaak dreamed up for his orc OC.

>>49763251
>Blizzard has been distancing themselves from everything Knaak has made and for good reasons.

So that's why Knaak's characters from the WotA trilogy (including Broxigar) are referenced in the Illidan quests of Legion, yeah?

>A weapon like strom'kar isn't necessarily a bad weapon, especially as it was used by THE warrior who unified the human tribes and settled in the eastern kingdoms and secured a homeland for humanity.

First off, it's ugly as fuck and looks like a shitty drop from some random raid.

Secondly, playing up Thoradin doesn't make him any more special. He's still a Literally Who-tier character who was nothing but a sidenote on wowpedia and a random name in a low-level zone for the majority of WoW.

There are far better options (like Trol'kalar or Gorehowl) that have ties to actual characters who were playable in previous Warcraft games.

But thank you for confirming what I said earlier. The only people who defend Strom'kar are people with shitty taste who think "muh not!viking so badass barbarian human wurrlord" is good lore.

Don't you have some glowing golden cock to suck viking meme heaven, dude?

>It is a far better lore weapon than an axe that knaak dreamed up for his orc OC.

That orc OC is still better than your shitty Conan rip-off with no personality.

>>49763344
>So that's why Knaak's characters from the WotA trilogy (including Broxigar) are referenced in the Illidan quests of Legion, yeah?
yeah referenced.

>it's ugly as fuck
welcome to warcraft.
>playing up thoradin.
he is the forefather of the human kingdoms and the only reason the elves and men actually survived against the trolls. His importance to the lore is far more important than broxigar or rhonin. Thoradin is an important character precisely because he fills the gap in an important time of the eastern kingdoms' history.


>bad taste
>thinks a time travelling red orc who fought with sargeras and was treated well by the night elves and given an axe made by a demigod and all other mary sue bullshit is a good character.

kek. He is a sanic tier character, and its better off that anything related to him be kept far away from the game as possible.

>>49762910
Man we will never get the quest to find the trollbane axe so we can reforge the shards on it into Trol'kalar and get the axe as a secondary skin where you truly see that it is a broken sword fitted on a wooden head

File: squig giving a lick.jpg (810KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

810KB, 1920x1080px

what's the warcraft equivalent of squigs?

File: image.jpg (24KB, 180x183px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 180x183px

Who's best Mage and why is it Rhonin?

>>49763856
Richard pls.

you're right though.

>>49763856
khadgar tbph.
I really wish non human mages would do something.

>>49763919
I can't think of any notable live ones outside of Rommath, and calling him "notable" is probably still a stretch.

>>49763958
>eredar and draenei are supposed to be the most adept arcane users ever
>high/blood elves whose culture revolves around the use of magic
>the highborne from elde'thras who have an unbroken tradition of magic for 10000 years
instead we get quirky annoying humans.

>>49762136
I doubt banish would work on a non-demonform DH. They're still mortals, just with a bound demon, and only become properly demonic when they pop meta.

I do wonder if using exorcism on one would get rid of the demon, though, leaving the DH as just some blind guy with impractical swords.

>>49764062
Or at least banish it for a time. That would be an interesting way to fight a demon hunter.

>>49764123
>tfw a demon hunter
>get banished by a random warlock
>to add insult to injury he later summons and binds you

>>49763958
Azshara?

>>49764175
Tehd has a line about this

Favorite NPC in Legion so far

So, are we just going to forget about the massive war complex underneath Org?

Also what the fug happened to Blackfuse's stuff? Pretty sure Broken Shore would've gone a lot better if we still had Iron Stars, those giant robo scorpions, etc.

>daily reminder Day of the Dragon is the best book in Warcraft

>>49763856
That's not how you spell Khadgar

>>49764289
Not sure how well they'd fare with shipboard transport.

>>49764347
>Day of the Dragon
>Not The Last Guardian
>Not Lord of the Clans
>Not Tides of Darkness
>Not Rise of the Horde

Beyond the Dark Portal was garbooge. War of the Ancients arguable. Haven't read any other novels.

i hope maiev doesnt die in legion...

File: i dunno lol.gif (1MB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 400x400px

>>49761909
>single most powerful PCs in the game.
>get btfo by a pit lord and can't fight him without an artifact

File: are you sure.jpg (21KB, 620x259px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 620x259px

>>49763856
>Rhonin
>better than the meme wizard himself

>>49765565
She won't. She is canonically as indestructible, determined, and crazy as the pc. Guldan himself confirms this.

>>49765749
yeah but im terrified theyre going to pull a "maiev sacrifices herself for illidan to show how far shes come" sort of thing

>>49765762
I rather suspect Khadgar will blow himself up to destroy legion portal or something. He can't possibly be the awesome incarnate of not one, but two expansions.

For those who read the books; it true Blizzard ripped off Knaak's Stormrage novel for the Val'sharah questline?

>>49765762
They should go with horned messiah sacrifices himself to seal the portal.

>>49765762
Nah. I suspect they will learn to work together this expac. There will be a few tense moments where people think they're going to kill each other, then they go back to fighting demons. Maiev doesn't have that many death flags, atm. Malfurion or Tyrande are more likely to die.

File: images.png (10KB, 266x185px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 266x185px

>>49760069
>Warcraft
>lore

>>49765947
You shut your mouth, elf! I'll gob you soon enough!

>>49765947
>repeatedly posting this meme in Warcraft and mtg threads
It will never catch on.

File: TLG1.jpg (138KB, 302x397px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 302x397px

>>49765947
>elf
>not dead

>>49765931
but do they kiss, anon

>>49765762
Khadgar is the prime candidate for stakes-upping death right now. He's basically the PC's mentor at this point.

>>49766372

If rumors of a Warcraft movie sequel are true I think he will be kept alive in the game.

>>49766175
No

but they do fug

scourge civil war when

>>49766661
It was cut. Whats gonna happen with KT now?

>>49762446
Also during black temple she blocked off demon portals using the corpses of the demons she slew.

>>49766699
I remember that part. I think they said by the end of it she stood on top of a mountain of demon corpses, which she butchered by herself, but wished there were more to kill.

Don't have a sorcerer to close the portal?No problem. Clog it with corpses.

40k/10

>>49762910
>axe of cenarius

I too wish to wield the weapon that was only ever held by Brox of the Gary Stu Clan in a trilogy of meh books that completely fucked up most of the pre-existing lore characters within and featured three irrelevant time travelling characters for more or less no reason.

>>49766661
Warcraft 3 TFT.

>>49762397
wait, is that canon? I thought it was because frostmourne corrupted him or some shit. that's what I got from wc3

>>49767085
It's a meme.

>>49767220
an official meme peddled by Christie golden and the guys at blizzard entertainment.

>>49767085
>>49767220
>>49767271
Official lore.

>>49767085
I think it's a play on all the new lore in WotLK detailing and expanding on his fall as Paladin.

In essence, Arthas was a blue-eyed, rosy-cheeked naive princling believing he would be the hero to save us all like in his favourite pandarian saturday morning hand puppet displays he watched as a young boy. He then got disillusioned because he faced adversity from the world through losing allies because of his thorough approach and witnessing misery left and right. The death of his horse, a beloved pet, and his emotional response to that death is often added to that pile of misery. It's a miniscule event but one that hit him more personally.

Overall it's people overstating the weight of that experience.

What's your thoughts on Warcraft Adventures?

Judging from the material we get to see here, I'd say they had done a great job to expand on the existing material from Warcraft 2 and giving them the proper spin in "Every side has heroes and villains". It makes me wonder why they made such an intense cut in the storyline to launch Warcraft 3 when they had a perfectly fine bit of lore right there available that could have been recycled fairly easily.

Also Blizzard pretty much shows in this one that they have had no sense of scale or timeline at all.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL780265A4FFFD41E8

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjfIEOkknLB-btY29Ij73l7vvCkwA1fUa

>>49768310
any particularly jarring part?

>>49768310
My thoughts ? Seeing Thrall catapulting himself into a wall is something truly magnificent.

>>49768325
Just the setup alone:

>2 Wars
>Only 1 of them is actually on Lordaeronian ground
>22 years
>Land is still utterly devastated and shit for some reason (no mentioning of the Fel/Orcish Warlocks/Demon Juice)
>Blackhand sends Frostwolf into de-facto exile
>Into a region of which he has technically no idea it exists
>Frostwolves make it there on foot, Durotan returns on foot to warn Orgrim, walks back with wife and newborn son to be slaughtered all within the few months of the first war before Blackhand got HAMMERED.com
>They go to Grim Batol to unite the clans to attack Durnholde
>Marching to Khaz Modan and back to Southern Lordaeron for a siege

Pretty much shows to me that they had difficulty figuring out how they wanted the geography to pan out. It's not an easy task to begin with, and looking back Blizzard has always only cared about "is it exciting" over "does it make sense", but in this case I think we can very much see they (read: Chris Metzen) must have been so high on cocaine that they threw all logic out the window to tell a rock'n'roll heavy metal story of badass noble savage barbarians who get oppressed by the slimey and scheming cartoon villain humans.

>>49768535
the game was canned before major story elements were finalized. I am sure they would have fixed it during beta.

>>49763109
>>49766872

Meh, Brox was one of the few decent Knaak things, if only because he was just a knockoff of his brother who could be safely killed off.

>>49762397
>>49767085
>>49767220
>>49767271
>>49767539
Golden basically made a side-cause to his fall that involved the death of his Horse when he was young to show how badly he dealt with failure and loss. (Also to shill for the big end-of-expansion mount, because you can't seriously tell me marketing didn't have a hand in that story.)

>>49768310
>>49768352
>>49768535
>>49768555
It was glorious and silly and they should have brought back ORGRIMUS PRIME in WoD and the movie. I mean seriously, Peter fuckin Cullen as Orgrim Doomhammer? That shit was GENIUS.

(I also like that after Metzen took over as Thrall they eventually brought Clancy Brown back as Blackhand.)

>>49768535
>they threw all logic out the window to tell a rock'n'roll heavy metal story of badass noble savage barbarians who get oppressed by the slimey and scheming cartoon villain humans.

the butthurt is so palpable

you have a million settings where humans dindu nuffin and are perfect snowflakes or are uncontested powerhouses that mow through hordes of orcs/goblins/beastmen/etc but instead you choose to be salty about the one setting where orcs get some development at the expense of humans

lol just lol

>>49768535
On the other hand, I love that they expanded on things in a more composed way, such as Shamans being still involved in occultism and a scary underworld or that the Dragons were, genuinely, not basically the Gods of the world but still very powerful creatures that could demand respect and worship (Deathwing and Alexstrasza).

I love that they picked up on things like old-school Death Knights kinda just fucked off to live out their days and were mighty sorcerors but that their mortal coil could be basically murdered by something as trivial as a tentacle monster.

And I actually had to smirk at the fact that they were self-aware enough to poke fun at the oversized hammer of that one Wildhammer Dwarf.

>>49768555
I'm not sure about that, to be frank. Certain aspects have to happen this way for the characters to even be possible in the first place or else the whole story is forfeit.

Thrall's separation from the Frostwolves was more reasonably resolved in the film, but now there's issue with how the hell did that orcling survive a river that led from somewhere in the Redridge mountains all the way to Southern Lordaeron and why would Aedelas Blackmoore take interest in such a baby when the internment act isn't even a thing yet?

>>49768656
Sorry if I went overboard there. The point is Blizzard would always make story choices that are extremely catchy and marketable rather than well thought-out. The remark about orcs and humans was more about blatantly switching the roles for effect than a detailed exploration of their characters.

I have been an Orcfag since I got my grubby hands on Warcraft 3 exactly because of the noble savagery, and I continue to be an orcfag for various reasons (apart from rampant memes about orc apologism)

File: yes, this pleases zugzug.jpg (57KB, 227x222px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 227x222px

>>49768736
>I have been an Orcfag since I got my grubby hands on Warcraft 3 exactly because of the noble savagery, and I continue to be an orcfag for various reasons

Mein neger.

>>49768736
Warcraft 3 ruined the orcs to be honest.

>>49765771
If the shadow priest dagger doesn't lie (big if), he'll fuck up and free Old Gods with the Pillars of Creation

>>49768635
Orgrimus Prime was amazing, but I can see why they wouldn't, because at the time of the film and WoD, Orgrim was fairly young and at the time of LotC he's practically ancient for Orc standards. It would make sense that his voice would change, which is what Pete-Boy's voice is all about: That grit, that smoky growl that commands respect simply by conveying the wisdom gained through decades of experience, seeing people and the world change as time passes. A resolve that is tempered by years of experiencing joy and witnessing grief.

By the time of Lord of the Clans, Orgrim has experienced the mightiest heights of his being, usurping the title as Warchief and making kingdoms tremble, and suffered the deepest lows as it all crumbled in his hands and he saw his people enslaved without any effort and himself become captured and humiliated.

The Orgrim before that isn't that. That Orgrim is a hungry warrior ready to prove his worth and whose conviction is the best interest for orc-kind. Film-Orgrim is a loyal follower not certain who deserves his loyalty up until it's too late, while WoD Orgrim does not have the initiative to become Warchief simply because there's no shadow council behind the scenes that ultimately only uses orcs as tools that needs removing.

>>49768897
Isn't that Il'gnoth that says that?

>>49768656
Eh, nah. I think the fact that humans were painted as they were in Warcraft 3 was flanderisation in the extreme. I'm more than glad they threw out the old dichotomy of good and evil between the Horde and Alliance(only to perpetuate it in WoW for no good reason), but the humans in WC3 were pretty terribly written. Garithos was a fucking cartoon character, as was Daelin. Just because the orcs being somewhat more fleshed out is more subversive than your stock fantasy setting doesn't make that good writing anymore than the universal norm where ebil orcs vs. knights in shiting armour are widespread.

>>49768892
Wow did, wc3 did them rather nice.

>>49768960
At least Jaina was cool

>>49768790
I've been an orcfag since WoD

:^)

>>49768892
BC ruined orcs

the Mag'har were the worst

>>49768925
True, but if they do make a second War movie, an Orgirm torn on what he should do with the no-brakes steamroller that his race has become would be suited for Peter. He can't try to stop the war outright or he'll be killed off and the war would proceed till one side or the other was completely exterminated, so he had to keep pressing forward with barely any mercy.

>>49769021
Some of WoD's Orc stuff was cool, I loved imagining the ancient Thunderlords playing what amounted to multiplayer Shadow of the Colossus to ring down the biggest animals.

>>49768892
You wanna know my opinion?

Blizzard invested a lot of energy driving the point home "Orcs aren't inherently evil" in Warcraft 3 and our protagonist Thrall is pretty much the one glorifying his own people. The main consumers of Warcraft 3 were 12-year-olds and upward, so we got a demographic essentially incapable of computing a nuanced characterisation (myself included at the time). So all the things showing that orcs could be cruel out of their own free volition (Blackrock Orcs still worshipping demons and enslaving dragons, waging a guerilla war against the humans, Grom admitting to Thrall that the Chieftains willfully accepted the demonjuice because it would make them stronger warriors, some of the Grunts telling Thrall that they WANT to fight something) flew right over our heads or were attributed to vague explanations of mindcontrol and dymynyc ynflyynce. We would never actually reflect upon it simply due to nostalgia.

The point of no return was, as >>49768967 says, WoW, because Blizzard did the smartest thing marketingwise and cashed in on the things the community was already screaming at the top of their lungs: That orcs didn't do anything wrong. So in all their media, Blizzard gave the fanboys what they wanted, until it spinned out of control and in our modern meme-driven mainstream media, things got overplayed so much that we can't help but see notions of Dinduism even if it was not the intention.

So in short, the reason Warcraft orcs are ruined is not any game, it's us. We ruined orcs. At first, we couldn't get enough of infallible orc dick down our throats and Blizzard Enterjewment made the easiest deal in the world and delivered it to us, but now we're fed up of the ever present FOR THE HORDE and the ennui has embittered us to the point where we seek to justify our bitterness at every confrontation witht he matter.

File: absolutely inhuman.png (236KB, 600x453px) Image search: [Google]

236KB, 600x453px

>>49769118
Or, the simpler explanation is that someone in Blizz had a hardon for orcs and the rest of the kids went along with it.
I retrospect, orcs were always mindless savages to be put down, on top of being literal aliens to Azeroth.
Alliance racism is not only justified, it's crucial for the continued survival of all native races of Azeroth against the green tide.

>>49769118
But Vanilla WoW orcs were fine

Vanilla orcs did both right and wrong, and it was great. Every race had it's fair share of heroes and villains. There was no "all good" playable race and no " all evil" playable race. And that was actually a great strength of the MMO

File: 1473526519232.jpg (31KB, 625x626px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 625x626px

>>49769161

>>49769246
But I'm not baiting, this is my sincere opinion. Orcs were always fun as an enemy, that's what they're there for. If you try to make them "good" you are ruining the setup.

>>49769161
>it's crucial for the continued survival of all native races of Azeroth

Indeed. The fleshy folk must be purged and Azeroth must be reclaimed for the glory of the Elemental Lords! All hail the Elemental Lords, the only true natives to Azeroth!

>>49769048
I think Rob Kazinsky deserveds to play and voice Orgrim Doomhammer a possible second film. His passion for the film was palpable at every opportunity you saw him speak of it at panels, in interviews, just anywhere.

Also the second war isn't all that far after the first one, basically a year or so apart? Not enough time to age to the point of a voice changing so drastically.

>>49769182
My point is that there's no definitive moment at which you can clearly state "Here's where the apologist nation attacked!", but that it was a gradual process where the quality of orcish portrayal declined, but that by the time of WoW vanilla the gears definitely started moving and that the community was the driving force, so Blizzard complied and delivered swathes of green and later brown dick.

Speaking of Green Dick:

In retrospect, I am a bit miffed that the effects of the fel have been gradually removed from the game.

Things like two-headed Ogres only ever existing because of Warlock shenanigans, Orcs turning green, Blood Elves being affected on a more subtle level, all these things are either retconned or resolved. Even non-Fel users were affected by the demonic radiation as shown by the Frostwolf, why should the Mag'har be anything but afflicted, too?

And looking back, the warlocks essentially uplifted a more or less bestial species such as ogres to be capable of civilisation on their own and imported them to Azeroth. Imagine the actual plothooks we could have had if the authors invested more time in this: We have a species, removed from its natural habitat, suddenly with the cranial capacity to process very complex thoughts and inputs, first as slaves and suddenly free to do their own thing. It was only a sidenote in WoW, but the Ogres were basically at the beginning of developing their own cultures for the first time in ever in an environment for which they didn't evolve.

>>49769392

You're playing the wrong game, faggot. Go back to Warhammer Fantasy.

>>49769404
To say that the ogres on Azeroth are "capable of civilization" is overstating their abilities greatly

The Ogres on Draenor were basically more self-indulgent romans, on Azeroth they live in mud-huts

>>49769465
He's talking about Pre-WoD canon.

Continuation of >>49769404
We could have seen so many wonderful and terrible attempts of the ogres to solve the mystery of civilisation.

But all that got canned because WoD just HAD to introduce Ogre Kingdoms and muh fall from greatness. Technically speaking, it's an alternate universe Dreanor, and nothing from that alternate existence could hold truth in Original Universe Draenor, but Blizzard seems to not invest any resources into propagating this idea further and seem to be very content with WoD Draenor to be the canon OU Draenor except for Garrosh mechanising the Horde with FIRE AND IRON.

And Blood Elves. Ahhhh, Blood Elves! Blizzard has already broken with a widely perceived tradition of always evil orcs, but now they can't ever seem to get out of "Elves are pretty sticks in the mud" territory. Night Elves were flavoured down, and Blood Elves had their biggest initiative to evolve and adapt resolved so now they can go back to being High Elves but for some reason they still wear red and green contact lenses.

>>49769465
You realise that in order to become even remotedly Roman, you would have to have a fairly advanced intellect when it comes to infrastructure and administration, right? That alone would speak of an amazing capability of civilisation.

And two-headed ogres exist only because that was the only way to give those fat, ugly beasts the cranial capacity to learn spellcasting and understand the complexities of magic.

OU has it that Two-heads only existed because of the war effort, AU has it that they existed before and were the ruling class. Because there's no statement to the contrary that AU is alternative in this regard, we are led to assume that OU ogres were the same on Draenor, which completely takes away all the fun of a race that's essentially a clean slate in everything cultural.

And yes, they live in mud huts - Yet. But the potential is endless! And amazing infinity of possibilities that's gone to waste with a retcon.

>>49769404
>Things like two-headed Ogres only ever existing because of Warlock shenanigans, Orcs turning green, Blood Elves being affected on a more subtle level, all these things are either retconned or resolved. Even non-Fel users were affected by the demonic radiation as shown by the Frostwolf, why should the Mag'har be anything but afflicted, too?
the mag'har were afflicted by the red pox and isolated.

>>49769541
They still have green eyes for the same reason that orcs are still green

Because once the corruption sets in, it doesn't go away, it's even passed down to your children long after you're no longer drinking the kool aid

>>49769541
>OU has it that Two-heads only existed because of the war effort, AU has it that they existed before and were the ruling class. Because there's no statement to the contrary that AU is alternative in this regard, we are led to assume that OU ogres were the same on Draenor, which completely takes away all the fun of a race that's essentially a clean slate in everything cultural.
MU/OU outright said that Cho'gal was a natural Two-head and the first in generations, which means that a few generations before there HAD been others.

There ARE lower-end One-head casters as well, mostly just Shaman before WoD, but they existed.

As much as some people including myself have complained about the handling of orcs and humans in this thread, I do feel like the point that WC3 is really pretty damn good should be hammered home.

I think the issue with it was that whenever they didn't get to develop a villain some such as Arthas or to an extent Illidan, they came up shallow. This is inevitable in a game with an already very large ensemble cast of GOOD guys. The story was pretty good and the characters were largely the driving force behind it but unfortunately as there weren't multiple players for each race bar orcs and humans, there wasn't really a time you could get a nuanced or complicated idea of how the race functions as a whole.

The opposite is both the biggest strength and weakness of WoW. Because the world is so large in WoW, there is a massive amount of variance in how the well written races go about their business. Some trolls are cannibals, and some are progressive and more moderate while maintaining their spiritual roots. Worldbuilding is inherent in an MMO, and nothing had a more solid foundation prior to an MMO's creation at the time more than WoW. Conversely, this also took a huge amount of power out of the storyteller's hands. While each race was now more diverse, characters no longer were involved with all of a long campaign and instead were replaced for the majority of content by nameless players who never were prescribed a personality. This lead to things like each of the racial leaders being more or less completely inactive for the first whole four years of the game's lifecycle until the developers learned tricks to circumvent this problem. Yet, this didn't really SOLVE it as can be seen during instances of character actions affecting a whole faction yet not being particularly well elaborated upon, the most egregious example of this being when Garrosh somehow managed to unite the clans against an enemy they had no reason to fight.

>>49769545
Red-pox is a virus, so you need somebody or something to act as host to transport it from one place to another. You contain a disease like that by a quarantine. The rest of the Horde didn't want it to spread through their ranks as they were on the brink of conquest, so they removed that threat from their midst.

Fel magic is supernatural nuclear radiation. Regular nuclear radiation is already a phenomenon that far surpasses such things as hostbodies or physical contact. There's indices that hint that the explosion of Chernobyl and the two A-bombs over Nipland have affected the way that the atoms behave on our entire planet, to the point where referencial atom-clock is actually off by some extend. (I read this quite a few years ago, I am not sure how much accuracy this holds today).

Then there's the canon of Draenor: A whole planet or at least continent changed its entire flora and fauna because of Fel-dickery. The sorcery's radiation has expanded over much larger distances than anything natural.

And we are to believe that the same solution actually applies to both these cases?

>>49769659
Well now that Warlords dropped of course it states it as such. It's a retcon. Warcraft 2's manual had Cho'Gall as the first of the two-heads created by Gul'Dan and that canon has held up throughout basically all of Warcraft 3 and WoW's canon.

>>49769699
What's more, the Iron Horde's major faction leaders did nothing to show how they felt about the war, the Alliance or the Horde in any way bar 'rawr we smash', a topic that morons have been keen to capitalise upon when roleplaying as a way to enforce their opinion of the race and vilify them.

But stuff like this has happened before. Just look at Cata. For large swathes of the campaign, the major players were missing. There were entire zones at endgame where nary a dragon reared their ugly head. Hell in Legion they went to great lengths to write stories that were self-contained in zones and their subsequent dungeons yet nothing interesting was done with the concept and neither Malfurion and Ysera were given any development, despite the latter of the two being in dire fucking need of it, what with being the only aspect with basically 0 characterization even when compared to 'i am the ebulz drugon', 'let's do the time warp again' and 'DA MAGICS IS BAD'.

>>49769782
>Well now that Warlords dropped of course it states it as such. It's a retcon. Warcraft 2's manual had Cho'Gall as the first of the two-heads created by Gul'Dan and that canon has held up throughout basically all of Warcraft 3 and WoW's canon.
Cho'gal was always listed as an adopted two-head at LEAST as far back as the Tides of War novelization and I'm 90+% sure it went back even farther than that.

>>49762397
I always knew he was a brony.

>>49765999
It spread on other threads and other boards too. Not just Warcraft and MtG

>>49769397
>only true natives

You tryin' ta imply sometin', mon?

>>49772338

Trolls were born from Titan blood as per Chronicle.

The only people who lived on Azeroth before the Old Gods or Titans showed up were the elementals.

>>49762910
What's a good alternative for the shield? I'm not a fan of that one

>>49772766
I feel that this retcon was unnecessary. What, are pygmies not native anymore? If Trolls are made of Titan blood, why did interacting with more Titan blood change them so drastically as to create Night Elves?

Did they confirm or debunk the "proto-drakes evolved from elemental beasts" thing?

>>49772766
>>49773442
>>49773585
They weren't born from titan blood, precisely, they were born in the cauldrons of life like all the other organics once the planet was made safe.

>>49772766
Really? Fucking retcons! why you gotta touch my trolls?!

Atleast the troll legends that describe titan and old gods arrival haven't been removed from the game i think.

>>49773628
Still a step down from trolls living on primordial azeroth before the titans even arrived.

>>49773731
That was never a thing. Or if it was it was only briefly a thing. There was no time before the titans arrived that standard organic life could thrive, it was all roiling oceans and barren or outright molten rock

>>49773764
Trolls could've been something else back then and considering old troll lore put them on the planet before titans

>>49773764
>That was never a thing.

Yes, it was. Trolls even had their own name for the Titans. The "Travelers."

>>49773987
My mon.

>>49773888
>>49773987
When was that introduced anyway? (Also that may be from the era where it went titans-oldgods-titans lorewise.)

>>49774054
Vanilla is the first time i think.
Trolls called them travellers because they came, left and then returned to deal with the old gods then left again.

>>49774054

http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Third_Troll_Legend

>They remembered when the Old Ones ruled and when the Travelers came and cast them down. They remembered when magic was new. [Context: "They" are the krakens.]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ask_CDev#Ask_CDev_Answers_-_Round_2

>What races were on Azeroth before the coming of the titans?
>Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Gods were the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir. Due to the Old Gods' war against the titans, as well as the extensive terraforming that followed the war's conclusion, records of what races existed before even the Old Gods' arrival have likely been lost forever.

>>49774561
Guess my old troll lore was a bit rusty cuz I remembered "they" as trolls and not krakens

>Goblins were originally under a species that was physically stronger than them
>Kazamite increases the Goblin's intelligence and they free themselves
>join the Horde
>get enslaved by the physically stronger Garrosh
Is this pottery?

>>49775415
I recall them being pretty well compensated under Garrosh.

>>49775415
Pre-MoP Garrosh valued those that could prove their worth. When the Grimtotem took over Thunder Bluff he didn't help Baine because he wanted to see if Baine was a strong enough leader to rally his people and take it back.

Thralls balls!

>>49777520
Why are you talking about the contents of Aggra's pockets?

>>49777652
Thralls balls consumable when

>>49778459
only on PTRs

Anyone else glad they retconned Med'an?

>>49761068
>how do you guys feel about N'raqi, Mantid, Nerubians, and Qiraji?

I love 'em. When the Mantid quest in MoP revealed that they were all once sibling races in thrall to the Old Gods, I was super excited.

Sucks that Y'Shaarj is already dead, but at least we've still got N'Zoth to go through.

Anyone else agree that giving titans god status power levels was a mistake? I feel that it was more fitting when old gods and titans were on the same playing field.

>>49779556
he isn't though.
>>49780334
lore is all kinds of fucked.

>>49779592
Can you really kill an old God?
It seems like you can destroy their physical form, and cleanse any corruption they've caused, but they still somehow exist and are able to influence the world.

>>49761068
the mantid are one of the best "original" races Warcraft has. shame about them being useless for the next few centuries though

>>49781163
Do you remember when Y'shaarj duked it out with titans instead of being plucked like a damn ant

>>49781583
I thought Cthun was the only one that actually put up a fight and maybe even killed a titan

>>49781163
It's important to define what "Killing" means in this instance.

You destroy their conscience, but their essence remains. When you die, your body composes and is broken up into enzymes and proteins so that other organisms can pick them up and take nourishment. I assume it is a similar process with supernatural evil and darkness that pervades your physical shape. Now on a world full of spirit such as Azeroth, this potent evil essence is animated to become an entity of its own. This entity develops a new conscience that harbours a semblance of memory from its original body.

At least I think that's what happened with Y'shaarj.

In the case of C'Thun, Yog'Saron and N'zoth, I believe it's simply because mortals do not possess such immense power as to actually strike a mortal wound, so they're just thrown back to sleep.

>>49781641
Y'sharaaj cast a curse just before he died which is why it wasn't just generic evil pouring from the body of a dead god.

Quick question:

Anybody have any good Warcraft fanfiction? Doesn't matter if it's "up to date" or if it's some old-school stuff.

I already know the one where Jaina becomes Lich King and Kel'Thuzad is her loyal advisor, and I know Sirens of Azeroth which is about wandering courtesans but surprisingly tame.

Anybody got some good stuff? I feel a craving.

>>49781683
>good Warcraft fanfiction?
Doesn't fucking exist.

>>49781641
The important bit to remember here is that every Old God we've fought and possibly killed so far has just been the surface level bit. The Old Gods dig into the mantle of Azeroth something fierce. We may have bashed in C'thun and Yogg'Saron's head but their body stretches for kilometres into the world. And none of it is guided by some master intelligence. They just keep on digging and spreading influence as they go. Y'shraaj was the same, except a bit more than just his head got beaten up.

>>49781683
Could you link me the Jaina Lich King one?

>>49781947
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6423427/1/Frostblood

>>49781981
>very good! Off to Zarkhenar, then. Off to see all my friends and family and loved ones.
>...to kill them. of course, for harming your dragon.
Runas the Shamed is the realest nigga on Azeroth

>forsaken
>2spooky4alliance
>death knights
>no problem

Did Blizzard ever bother to explain why shit is like this or should we presume that it is bitch queen's fault?

>>49782092
7.1's preview has shown us the Nightfallen restored to their original forms, so, if Runas is still roaming around Azurewing Repose, why not restore him to his original form (or at least make him sane again)?

>>49782172
Bitch Queen was shacking up with a demon and still using all the tools of the Scourge. Kinda hard to want to team up with someone like that.

>>49781163

The old gods have 'roots' that go so deep into Azeroth that destroying an old god has the potential to destroy the planet

Y'Shraaj was plucked out by Aman'Thul and a huge chunk of Azeroth was ripped and became a wound leaking Titan essence blood. The well of eternity

>>49782257
As opposed to undead who were Arthas's personal servants about 10 minutes ago?

DKs have sucked more soul than Jaina has cock.

>>49782331
I never said DKs were ever good. They were the worst class until Demon Hunters show up acting all fucking emo.

>>49782331
>smash the Scarlet Crusade's only stronghold outside of SM
>immediately betray the Lich King
the Ebon Blade are more effective at fighting the Scourge than the Argent Dawn and did literally nothing wrong

>>49782347
>shove one demon up your ass and then act all emo
>meanwhile warlocks casual rape dozens of demons into submission

Why are we keeping these Illidarifags around anyway?

>>49782372
Because according to Blizzard, they know more about demons than anyone. Even the demons that hang around inside the Warlock class hall.
Yes, Blizzard's writing is that bad.

>>49782348
EB fanboys are the worst. I'd take Garrosh appologists and Illidindu over you guys any day.

>>49782372
>CRAAAAAAWLING IIIIIIIIIIIN MY SKIIIIIIIIIN

>>49782372
Because reasons. Demon Hunters are the official jobber class.

>Warlock
>Can't be assed with learning Arcane/Frost/Fire magic, decides it is easier to learn how to summon, bind and command demons
>Any given Warlock has, at any given time, at least one demon under its command that'll do anything it is asked of, without question nor hesitation, even if they don't like it
>While in combat, a Warlock that specializes in Demonology has around half a dozen demons under his complete control (Doomguard/Infernal+Dreadstalkers+Wild Imps)

>Demon Hunter
>Takes an Imp Enema for some enhanced agility and fel magic
>I MADE THIS ENORMOUS SACRIFICE FOR ALL AZEROTH, HOPING THAT Illidan-sempai will notice me
>OH MY GOD THE POWER IT IS TOO MUCH, I CAN BARELY CONTAIN IT
>I CAN'T HANDLE THIS VERY POWERFUL DEMON INSIDE ME HUMMING "SHE'LL BE COMING 'ROUND THE MOUNTAIN"
>OH FUCK GUYS, I COULDN'T RESIST HIS OFFER OF A SINGLE ICE CREAM SANDWICH FOR MY ETERNAL SOUL, GUESS I'M THROWING IN MY LOT WITH THE BURNING LEGION NOW, ENJOY DEALING WITH MY TRAITOROUS ASS
>"Bitch-ass niggas gonna be bitch-ass niggas, I suppose" t. Meryl Firestorm

>Death Knight
>Can't a guy enjoy the eternal peace of oblivion after a lifetime on the battlefield, for fuck's sake?
>Eh, since I'm here to stay, better make some good use of it
>Yo, boss, what do we have to do today?

>>49782654
It made sense before warlocks were a player thing.

Demon hunters melding with a demon was edgy but neat and made demons seem pretty spooky.

Now every gnome can have a dozen buddies on command so it kinda makes things less interesting. It wasn't always like that. Warlocks and using fel magic wasn't normalized.

And Arthas was the only death knight.

>warlocks: Guldan

>demon hunters: caste of illidan-likes

>death knights: illidan

Now every mouth breather can be one of any.

>>49782419
t. demon hunter

>>49782782
>death knights: arthas*
Derp as fuck.

>>49782782
arthas was the first DK of the scourge.

>>49782782
Original Death Knights were originally Warlocks that died and got reborn by Gul'dan using Legion magic.

I used to RP as a Warlock and always liked treating being a Warlock like a Psyker in 40K. Tapping in to incredibly powerful magic, but always on the razor's edge if it all backfiring.
I liked the analogy that's been brought up in these threads that being a Warlock is like playing with fire whilst doused in gasoline.

>>49782805
It was a brainfart. See
>>49782804

>>49782818
there were always other DKs you mong. The DK in vanilla, baron rivendare was one.
there were DKs in the TFT campaign.

>>49781683
I liked the Unlikely Heroes series that SickleYield did.

So what's your thoughts on magic?

>Chronicles introduces several different planes of existence as source of magic.
>If you want to spell light magic, you must tap into the light-plane, if you want to cast arcane, you tap into the arcane-plane.
>A single being may become adept at channelling and casting all magical energies by tapping into their respective domains

vs.

>Magic has a single source
>To cast a specific kind of magic, you have to channel the raw energy to alter it into a desired form
>This would make magic a spectrum and its different schools sections of this spectrum

I kind of prefer the non-chronicle version because it makes magic alltogether more ambiguous.

Also possibility of mixed spells.

>>49764035
>Silvermoon was sacked two decade ago but still hasn't recovered
>Exodar was super high tech and crash landed two, now it's still a wreck
>Dalaran was reduced to dust and rocks at the same time as Silvermoon, with its population all died or fled, but not only recovered, but also teleported 3 times and was a central hub of two world war campaigns

Humans are as much Mary Sues as orcs are Dindus.

>>49783113
Let's not forget that the same kingdom that got sacked in the first war is now the mightiest nation in the Alliance.

>>49783211
Mostly because they sat out the 3rd war and its aftermath.

>>49783335
Shouldn't Khaz Modan be the mightiest nation? Due to being mostly untouched by all three wars?

>>49783113
>Lordaeron undead-ed
>Stromgarde undead-ed
>Gilneas abandoned
>Alterac sacked
>Kul Tiras currently irrelevant

Wow, yeah, humans got it so easy.

>>49783211
Well, that is what happens when a kingdom can dedicate all of its resources to rebuilding instead of war.

>>49784012
Lordaeron
>helped stormwind in its hour of need
>helped its people to conquer their land back
>at least partially funded its reconstruction
Stormwind
>doesn't offer any help to lordaeron during the plague
>doesn't even give any support to the few remaining humans that fought to survive against the scourge's garrison forces after the 3rd war

Moral of the story: never trust in the Stormwind.

>>49784055
Well, the Stormwind nobility also refused to pay the workers that rebuild the kingdom, so they definitely have a history of being scumbags.

>>49784055
When Mor'Ladim was a human he helped Lorderon in the III War.

>>49784269
And yet goblins get stereotyped as jews when the Stormwind is more jewish than a synagogue full of loan sharks.

>>49769161
>Humans
>Native of Azeroth

A few decades later your Iphone80 will call itself "natives of earth" and ask for the execution of the then-mutated humans because they receive help from another strain of mutants to fight zombies

>>49781626
Might be but I remember there being on unknown old one that was killed but almost killed a titan at the same time then again my old lore knowledge is rusty.

>>49782419
Agreed, dks don't do shit other than attacking their allies and becoming LKs bitches again

So is the alternate timeline dreanor going to do anything or did Yrel's promise just get forgotten?

>>49782654
>yo boss should we attack the demons
>NO ATTACK THE PALADINS!
>ok we did that should we attack the demons now
>no

>>49784012
>humans got it so easy

No, humans didn't get it easy at all. The point is that they can recover so quickly, or even advance far beyond their original status compared to any other race is bullshit.

>Night elves: do nothing for 10k years, not even rebuild their empire. Making mistakes and taking losses one after another with no gains
>High/blood elves: still struggling to survive in their one kingdom even though they retook the Sun Well and the Scourge is largely defeated outside of Northrend/outright abandon their heritage and work as prostitutes for humans
>Dwarves: Still human's sidekick even though they far exceed humans in their industrial and technological capacity and was mostly untouched by war
>Trolls: they always lose no matter what despite being one the the most populous and physically strong races

It's World of human/orc/undead, and humans took the most losses out of the three but is somehow still the strongest.

>>49784508
Cthun is the one the maybe killed a Titan and was thought to have been killed.

>>49784917
I thought one was confirmed dead even in old lore

>>49785023
Y'sharaaj is the one that died, he got off a curse before hand which is how the sha came into existence
There was going to be one known as Xalatoth the the Spriest dagger was connected to

>>49785116
I know but i meant in old lore.

Was garrosh too much of a purist to consider breeding mok nathal for his armies? Or are they just being overlooked constantly

>>49781683
Do you have preferences for length, genre, characters, etc.?

>>49785725
Not that anon but I'd take anything decent with orcs.

>>49786028
>I'd take [...] orcs
Why are humans such sluts?

>>49786295
BGC

File: purge.png (339KB, 518x700px) Image search: [Google]

339KB, 518x700px

>>49786295

>>49784822
>>Trolls: they always lose no matter what despite being one the the most populous and physically strong races
They are also the least unified race.

>>49786528
They tried in Cataclysm but the players ruined it

>>49786528
They still kinda are. The Zandalari still have most of the other trolls under their influence during Pandaria.

>>49783715
Khaz Modan was occupied by the Horde in 2nd war, dwarves holed themselves in Ironforge that was pretty much impenetrable.

Also, dwarves lack human's raw numbers and reproduction ability. Human children born after First War are already adult and can have children of their own. Elves, nope, dwarves, likely also nope, though the lifespans and maturity rates were propably retconned.

That's what makes humans the most powerful race in the long run: elves, draenei, dwarves, gnomes and tauren reproduce more slowly, orcs have (or should have, fucking Blizzard's lack of setting logic) lower starting population and fewer women, trolls had even smaller starting population than orcs and while goblins reproduce faster, they have tendency to blow themselves up almost as fast.

>>49787020
>trolls had even smaller starting population than orcs
W-what?

>>49787061
Darkspear trolls.
If all trolls were taken into account, then they'd outnumber all other races.

>>49787020
>orcs should have fewer women
Why? If anything, their female population should be greater than the male.

>>49787310
Old Horde wasn't big on gender equality. What got to Azeroth was invading army, almost all males, and the survivors of that army army were what ended up in internment camps and followed Thrall to Kalimdor. There are some exceptions, Frostwolf clan was exiled in its entirety, but most orc women should've stayed in Draenor

>>49787466
Should have just killed all the males and used the females to make a half-orc slave caste.

>>49787466
Yes, but A LOT of those men were killed between the three wars and internment camps.

File: FacepalmCarl.jpg (93KB, 500x300px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 500x300px

>>49784822
>No, humans didn't get it easy at all. The point is that they can recover so quickly, or even advance far beyond their original status compared to any other race is bullshit.

...I know, I was being sarcastic in response to the anon I was quoting.

If the BC zones didn't have to be stagnant for gameplay reasons do you think the exodar and silvermoon would be fixed?

It would be nice they updated those two places and allowed flight.

>>49788929
>do you think the exodar and silvermoon would be fixed?
Do you mean lore-wise, or mechanically?

Yes to both, probably. I'd imagine the Dead Scar would be less of a problem in Legion-era Quel'thalas than it was during Burning Crusade, and probably the same with the Ghostlands. And surely the Exodar, while evidently not fixed as far as space travel is concerned, must at least be structurally stable by now.

As for mechanically, yeah, I imagine Blizzard would try to make it more modernized by now if the resources allowed it. At the very least, allowing flight and maybe making the zones a little less tedious to level in. And/Or updating them to modern lore standards, like getting rid of all the fel crystals in Eversong.

>>49789020
Aren't the Draenei Islands the the BElf areas off to the east of Hellfire Peninsula? That'd mean Blizzard would have to do something about Burning Crusade, and that sure as shit isn't happening.

>Caverns of time is based around your typical corruption story with the infinite dragonflight which has very little payoff
>Caverns of time could have been a tool to use so all the old zones could be updated while having the old versions still visitable and playable via the Caverns of time
What a goddamn waste. Blizzard could have their cake and eat it too when it comes to the vanilla nostalgiafags

>>49789020
>Exodar, while evidently not fixed as far as space travel is concerned, must at least be structurally stable by now.
In Legion, after you do the quest that kills Velen's son, he gets pissed and orders his mechanics to repair the Exodar, saying that they're going home.
So Argus is confirmed as at least a content patch.

>>49763344
Thoradin is basically the Charlemagne of WoW. As a human warrior I appreciate Strom'kar, though I'd prefer Trol'akar

>>49789020
>>49789898
Unless I'm sorely mistaken, the Exodar has been fixed for ages, but the changes are not shown ingame (Like how Gnomeregan was retaken from the troggs/leper gnomes/living fallout/dark irons in Cata, but it's still just an annoying low level dungeon).

Maybe when he ordered Romuul to fix the ship, he was referring to the damage caused by Rakeesh's invasion forces, instead of that caused by the crash nearly a decade ago?

>>49786028
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4308643/2/Diplomacy

I don't "ship" Thrall and Jaina, but this is an entertaining and well-written story in which they get married for political reasons.

>>49784055
>>49784269
>>49784314
never forget
with Stormjews, you lose

>>49790455
It was patched up to the point that it wasn't going to explode or leak anymore radioactive waste into its local environment.
Velen never went so far as to fix it to the point of space travel until just now.

>>49764035
>>49783113
>>49784822
That's because Warcraft is poorly written.

>>49788394
...I think you missed that anon's point.

I think that anon was saying that Warcraft Humans are giant mary sues because they always just magically, nonsensically recover from everything and remain the dominant power and leaders of the Alliance even though it makes absolutely no sense and all things considered they really shouldn't. Which is true.

Plus there's the fact that all the best mages are human which just makes no sense at all.

>>49791767
>I think that anon was saying that Warcraft Humans are giant mary sues because they always just magically, nonsensically recover from everything and remain the dominant power and leaders of the Alliance even though it makes absolutely no sense and all things considered they really shouldn't. Which is true.
I blame Beyond the Dark Portal retconning Dalaran's destruction

>>49792830
Dalaran was never fucking destroyed you fucking autistic retard.
The one mission involving it only let you destroy the city because of the limitations of the game engine. Even then, the mission log makes it clear it's just a smash and grab.

File: can't sleep.jpg (117KB, 575x779px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 575x779px

>>49790713

This is fine.

>>49792886
it was still destroyed in Tides of Darkness

File: Second_War_Map.jpg (461KB, 1012x1280px) Image search: [Google]

461KB, 1012x1280px

>>49793052
Doomhammer's army never fucking gets near it.

>>49793071
http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Siege_of_Dalaran_(WC2_Orc)
>This battle was a painful loss to the Alliance, but the defeat of Alterac shortly afterward caused the Horde to retreat its armies back to Crestfall and Blackrock Spire. Though razed by the battle, Dalaran was quickly rebuilt, and continued to function until its complete destruction at the hands of Archimonde in the Third War.
hurr durr

>>49793071
>Doomhammer
more like dumbhammer desu

>>49793189
Lothar pls

>Dorfs STILL haven't retaken Grim Batol and Blackrock Mountain

ded tred, ded gaem

>>49794310
>dwarves doing anything but driving tanks for superior humans
this kills the Kosak

>>49769782

>There's indices that hint that the explosion of Chernobyl and the two A-bombs over Nipland have affected the way that the atoms behave on our entire planet, to the point where referencial atom-clock is actually off by some extend. (I read this quite a few years ago, I am not sure how much accuracy this holds today

1000% bullshit. Those were only a rounding error compared to the amount of nukes used in testing. Also, chernobyl wasnt a nuclear explosion. It was a fire.

>>49795090
you think people know that?
their experience of nuclear reactors comes from C&C soviet reactors blowing up.

>>49782959
I don't think that those magics were presented as planes of existence, more like chart of how those types relate to each other, like Fel being opposite of Arcane and Shadow being opposite of Light.

When you cast Fireball, you don't summon it from Firelands, but gather heat from around to ignite air and then throw the plasma at your enemy.

>>49791767
>Plus there's the fact that all the best mages are human which just makes no sense at all.

Let's see... draenei mostly turned away from arcane to the Light, and the most powerful mages joined Legion. Azshara is still out there, other mages left nelves either to newly added Nightborne or to found high elves with Dath'remar. Highborne in Dire Maul kept away from the world. Helves were almost driven to extinction, we've killed Kael'thas and his most powerful followers, Rommath didn't do anything of note (his Twillight Hammer betrayal arc in Cata was scrapped), Aethas Sunreaver was kicked out of Kirin Tor... which was mostly human club anyway. Krasus and Kalec are dragons. Guardians of Tirisfal are something beyond normal mages, and elves had their runestones to hide them from demons, so they haven't had a presence amongst them. There's Millhouse Manastorm for gnomes, and other races haven't got much arcane tradition to begin with.

So I wouldn't say all the best mages are humans, but the focus is on humans. Other races had their most powerful mages hidden or killed off. Perhaps if we've finally got Quel'thalas remake to see what the elves were up to after BC...

>>49769782
>Warcraft 2's manual had Cho'Gall as the first of the two-heads created by Gul'Dan and that canon has held up throughout basically all of Warcraft 3 and WoW's canon.
That's bullshit, and you know it. Cho'gall always had 2 heads, he were Chieftain of the Twilight Hammer during the events of before the Warcraft: Orcs and Humans, and Gul'dan created Altars of Storms with parts of Runestone of Caer'Darrow only during invasion on Quel'Thalas, which were required for him to change regular Ogres into Ogre-Mages.

>>49782959
I prefer the idea of arcane magic, nature magic and light magic all being fundamentally different things (with fell being a reflection of arcane and shadow being a reflection of light, rather than their own things), rather than all of them being variations of "get in touch with elemental plane X and use it's power"

>>49781683
Travels Through Azeroth and Outland
http://destron.blogspot.com.au/2007/10/introduction.html

A Forsaken mage's travel log, filled with great world building and some shit world building (great or shit, most of it is now non-canon)

>>49796427
I really don't think that it works like that. For Shaman? Maybe. For Mage? Certainly not.

Also, the chart is more about relations. Fire is between Fel/Chaos and Light, and so it is. And that's why Ragnaros is chaotic, and Annihilan are burning. On the other hand, Nathrezim are more of Shadow related demons than flaming ones. And it shows in their attitude and preferred magics they use (Undeath).

>>49796830
I said "elemental plane" but I didn't just mean earth/fire/water/wind/whatever. I meant all the planes

By Chronicles, mages get their power via tapping the arcane plane, druids get theirs by tapping nature, warlocks via fel, etc. etc.

I don't like this because it turns everyone into a different flavor of mage, instead of being their own thing

is Prince Farondis /ourguy/?

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-010.jpg (4MB, 2292x3056px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 2292x3056px

>>49796882
Except that there is no implication that such planes exists. It seems that people looks at the chart and are interpreting in a D&D way, for some weird reason.

Mages learn how to use magic in an Orderly fashion, which is why they use Arcane. Fel is Chaotic in nature, and due to its origins, sacrifices works to make it. There is no such thing as "Arcane Plane" or "Fel Plane".

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-014.jpg (648KB, 2292x3056px) Image search: [Google]

648KB, 2292x3056px

>>49796990
This chart shows cosmic forces, not some Planes of existence. Some of those cosmic forces (Order, Chaos, Life, Death, etc.) have specific beings/magics/planes of existence related to them, but that doesn't mean that to use them one must tap to said realms.

Can't post actual pages, despite the chart being saved to a single file in the same way. "Error: Your image contains an embedded file." What does it even means?

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-013.jpg (269KB, 2292x3056px) Image search: [Google]

269KB, 2292x3056px

>>49797019
>Posted Realms of Existence
>Still can't post The Cosmic Forces
What is your problem, 4chan?

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-015.jpg (565KB, 2292x3056px) Image search: [Google]

565KB, 2292x3056px

>>49797029
Deleted the file, saved it again. Let's see... Nope, still can't upload that one page because "embedded file". What the actual fuck?

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-016.jpg (429KB, 2292x3056px) Image search: [Google]

429KB, 2292x3056px

>>49797052
Also, Illdan is Child of Light and Shadow, because he's basically a demon.
Fel came to be where Light and Shadow have clashed before life started, Fel was what remained from Light and Shadow annihilating each other in those areas.

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-012.jpg (634KB, 2292x3056px) Image search: [Google]

634KB, 2292x3056px

>>49797066
ok Paint, you're my only hope.

>>49796882 >>49796427 >>49782959

>>49797080 Here, proof that there is no such thing as "Arcane Plane" and other such bullcrap, and that people are unable to read and just look at >>49796990 images and interpret them as if they would be looking at D&D.

>>49797019
>>49797029
>>49797052
>>49797066
>>49797080
>Explaining mysteries away

Literally the death of fantasy, I hate when interesting fantasy universes do this

>>49797132
Meh, some parts of those being explained aren't bad, like Arcane being volatile and hard to control, while Fel relying on sacrificing life-force, or what allows Dark Shaman (and Taunka) to control the Elements against their will (Decay, that is counter-Element to Spirit). I also really like >>49797029 traits that comes with Elements, which quite explains why Elemental Lords behave the way they do.

>>49795673
>their experience of nuclear reactors comes from C&C soviet reactors blowing up.
Delete this.
Our Soviet Super Reactors are 100% safe and not prone to explosions or chemical spillage.

>>49797313
It is true that all the meltdowns were created by Capitalistic saboteurs!

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-073.jpg (5MB, 4584x3056px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 4584x3056px

Reminder that Trolls have defeated Azj-Aquir at the height of their power and when they were led by a C'thraxxi.

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-034.jpg (5MB, 4584x3056px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 4584x3056px

>>49799359
N'zoth is likely somewhere under the Vash'ir

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-043.jpg (5MB, 4584x3056px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 4584x3056px

>>49799411
And if he's contained by some facility of Keepers (as he were first to be defeated), it was never named.

>>49799439
Looks like he's probably on some island out in the ocean if it never got sunk. If Blizzard is feeling sadistic, they'll put his titan prison right under Kul Tiras, or near enough to screw it over badly. Blizz isn't keen on new underwater zones, so I bet the prison will be on an island, and we'll fight a shitload of naga, murlocs, those crab-people, and the squidmen to get in.

>>49799359
The fuck is up with these empire borders? Where are the other races like Tauren, quillboard, Gnolls and centaur n shiet?

>>49799802
>The fuck is up with these empire borders? Where are the other races like Tauren, quillboard, Gnolls and centaur n shiet?
Subservient, squatting or somewhere else?
Or they could just not exist yet.

>>49799802
I can see it right now.
>End cinematic for the final Legion raid
>Vol'Jin has returned somehow and reclaimed the Horde. He, Greymane and Khadgar stand on a boat crossing the sea
>Khadgar: I spy our destination, at last a reprieve from the horrors that the Legion has wrought. Untouched for decades, I present...Kul Tiras!
>Camera pans out, we see a large port that puts Theramore to shame. Seagulls, a clear blue sky and the sun framing a large Human keep
>Suddenly storm clouds appear above it and black lightning strikes the island
>Tentacles spout all over it, ripping apart buildings and immaculate coast lines as tidal waves flood the port
>A huge rolling eye appears amidst the clouds
>World of Warcraft: Vengeance of N'zoth
>Q1 2018

>>49799802
>The fuck is up with these empire borders? Where are the other races like Tauren, quillboard, Gnolls and centaur n shiet?
Irrelevant.

>>49799889
Please no

Kul Tiras doesn't deserve that. They dindu nuffin, they good boys. But they'll probably be sacrificed as another zone to be destroyed, unless Zandalar appears as well. Then they can both get half destroyed, and be the settings for underwhelming question and faction grinding. The kicker would be that both zones are neutral.

>Thank you brave, orc! You've saved Kul Tiras from Nzoth. In your honor, I hereby dedicate this here big-ass ship to you: Garywuzrite

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-092.jpg (5MB, 4584x3056px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 4584x3056px

>>49799802
>If Blizzard is feeling sadistic, they'll put his titan prison right under Kul Tiras, or near enough to screw it over badly.
>Hints about a woman whose heart became a hole and was filled by Old Gods
>Jaina could be said woman
>Jaina returned home, sensed N'zoth, and got tempted by him, and ultimately corrupted, just as he corrupted Deathwing
I am ready

>Where are the other races like Tauren, quillboard, Gnolls and centaur n shiet?
>Tauren
At that point probably still Yangol, either during or after Mogu modified them. Anyway, mostly nomadic
>Quillboar
Were they even a thing before Agamaggan died?
>Gnolls
Not that relevant ever, especially before Hogger
>Centaur
Nomadic, irrelevant, probably not existing yet at that point, given that back then, Dark Trolls didn't mutated to Night Elves yet.

Also, Crystalsong Forest is like that because Highborne annoyed Blue Dragons.

File: World of Warcraft Chronicle v1-103.jpg (5MB, 4584x3056px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 4584x3056px

>>49800000
Can those quints lie?
Hopefully, it would mean that Vol'jin survived, body that was cremated was of a random Troll, and he will convince Zandalari and other Trolls to join the Horde.

>And then the Elves broke everything for everyone.

File: nerubian-crypt-lord.jpg (25KB, 625x559px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 625x559px

So, are the nerubians with Team Old God, or not?

In the old RPG books, which are non-canon I know but bear with me, they were described as actually being atheists, who rejected the idea of worshipping any sort of higher being, and I think there was a mention of them having rebelled at some point. Now, I think there was some more recent mention of them being with the Old Gods, some dev comment or something that would normally trump that... but that wouldn't line up with what's in the games. Anub'arak's reaction to the old god creatures during WCIII doesn't fit with the nerubians being with the old gods, and even in WoW itself, to this day, you can go do a dungeon in northrend where some living nerubian questgivers actively tell you to go murder some Faceless Ones for them.

So: fedorabugs?

>>49789047
What?

>>49800506
IIRC, as of WotLK, they were primarily split between a faction that followed the Lich King, a faction that worshiped the Old Gods, and a small group that opposes both.

>>49800509
In the game files, azuremyst isles (the other one whose name I forget_), Eversong forest and the Ghostlands are far east of Hellfire peninsula, and that's why there's no way to fly to them ingame or reach them, you have to take a portal there.

>>49800506
Aqir were probably not aligned with Yogg-Saron, who, like N'zoth, preferred to use N'raqi. Mantid definitely are for Yogg-Saron, while Qiraji are for C'thun. When the Trolls awakened that one C'thraxxi, he used his power to bring out all the Aqir, which had part in capturing areas that were used by Tol'vir: Azjol-Nerub and Ahn'Qiraj.

>>49799411
>tfw Ragnaros had the largest territory out of the Elemental Lords by far

Was he really that much stronger than the others?

>>49797052
>to truly destroy a demon's spirit, the creature must be killed in the Twisting Nether itself, in places where that volatile maelstrom bleeds into mortal worlds, or in areas inundated with the Burning Legion's energies

oh chronicles you mean like ALL OF OUTLAND, where we killed a butt-ton of demons who STILL came back???

>>49800571
Oh, okay, I had a feeling it was something like that, but wasn't sure.

Anyway, yeah, anything to do with Burning Crusade is doubtful to get any kind of update, unfortunately. Especially since leveling outside of dungeons seems to be pretty rare now, and I'm sure Blizzard is aware of it.

>>49800624

Actually, Ragnaros probably had the smallest territory, since Therezane would also have had Deepholm, Neptulon would have had the whole ocean, and Al'akir would have had the whole sky.

>>49800723
Didn't Deepholm not exist yet since this was the Black Empire?

>>49800622
>>49800539
>>49800506

Was there something about the mantid kind of going off their old god worship, as well? Like, the paragons were mad into it, but they were all popped out of stasis from ages ago. The younger mantid have basically just been dicked around with by sha, and their erstwhile god is now even more dead than he was before. I can't remember clearly, but I feel like there was some line after Queen whatshername was possessed and killed, saying that they had a new younger queen and things were going to be changing for them?

>>49800624
>>49800757

Well, she would have had most underground areas, there are probably a ton of big cave systems in azeroth.

>>49800643
To be honest, this lore applies to Legion, and is referenced in Illidan novel too, which I think was before Chronicles.
I do hope Chronicles 2 will be out soon to tell people more about Draenor. Preferably both original and WoD one, because why not.
And clarify how it works out with Nether and stuff.

Though I could believe it is not fully in the Nether, as it's not fully demonic in its nature, like most of the Legion worlds, that are both in Great Dark and Nether at the same time.

Comparing maps from >>49799439 and >49800387 N'zoth should be somewhere south of Suramar. Given the hints that using the Pillars of Creation to seal the demon portal in Tomb of Sargeras will release the Old Gods, I think it is possible that N'zoth is somewhere under the ToS. It even kinda make sense from Aegwynn's perspective: what better place to imprison a powerful being than already existing prison facility good enough to imprison something even worse? If Alodi was familiar with Pillars, why wouldn't other Guardians? The book was in Medivh's library... and Aegwynn built Karazhan in the first place.

Zandalar is too west. Kul Tiras should be between Wetlands and Hillsbrad/Arathi, but there's not enough place for anything significant there in-game... it may be retconned and placed to where N'zoth should be. Vash'jir is another possibility... there was something massive and evil under there, possibly somewhere in the trenches. Nazjatar could be added south of Broken Isles too, after Maelstrom being retconned to be a hole left after Y'shaarj and Suramar being put back on the surface, and it would make certain amount of sense, as he was behind turning Azshara & co. into naga.

>>49800624
Or he were the least obedient to his masters. Or that his presence required enough space around him where living beings (which minions of Old Gods were) had to keep away from.

Then again, Therazane was also having areas going upwards (mountains that she could lift) and downwards (caves), Al'akir in the air, and Neptulon's water areas are not included.

>>49800695
I'd love for Blizzard to use their new level-scaling mechanics to make the quest zones independent on character level (with the grindy reputation exception, or to keep some semblance of old order by having OL/NR/Pandaland 60-70/70-80/85-90 anyway, but without further differentiation). But they are too lazy and they would propably fuck it up anyway.

>>49800790
If I remember right, there's a mention by one of them saying that, although they're allies with everyone else for now, when the Old Gods call again, they're going to serve them.

I may be wrong, though.

>>49800956
Yeah, those were the Paragons. Even if they were helping with killing current Queen, which was controlled by Sha (of Fear, if I remember right), ultimately they served the Old Gods.

>tfw no Caverns of Time: Fall of the Black Empire

>>49801077

If it was the paragons, then, it doesn't say so much about the younger mantid.

When we do get the inevitable Void Lords/Old Gods expansion, it'd be interesting if we had a faction of friendly rebel silithid to work with. Maybe a composite organization formed of splinter groups from all the races? Maybe with the new mantid queen for their leader/obligatory bug waifu.

>>49801256
Neutral Race: Mantid would be so fucking dope

Kunchong racial mount

File: I shall play you the song of my people.gif (91KB, 278x200px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 278x200px

>>49801256
>tfw no Nerubian Spiderlord to lead Nerubians, as all were made into Crypt Lords
>tfw Mantids have new Queen that is inexperienced
>tfw no Twin Emperors of the Qiraji
>tfw my face are mandibles

File: tumblr_o2iy53LaEj1rn2mwlo2_1280.png (505KB, 1000x600px) Image search: [Google]

505KB, 1000x600px

>>49801346
i'd be down for bug people race, but only issue with mantid is we already have neutral pandas from the same place.

>tfw no birb people yet please blizz

>>49801369

The Forsaken did have some nerubians at some point, didn't they? Maybe there's a free crypt lord hanging around somewhere?

>>49800643
That's not the case for Outland at all though. The Twisting Nether=/= The Great Dark Beyond. While there may be certain areas where the Legions presence is strongly felt (the Forge Camps maybe? Hellfire Citadel likely and Magtheridon did come back admittedly), but the portals that ripped Draenor apart weren't Legion magic to the best of my knowledge.

>>49801550
They were made using the Staff of Sargeras, created by Legionlord Sargeras himself to open portals to send his avatar anywhere he pleased. I'm pretty sure that counts as Legion magic.

>>49801550
>That's not the case for Outland at all though.

If you fly out from Outland, "Twisting Nether" comes up as the area you're in. Also, there's a zone called "Netherstorm", and if you do 120 quests there you get an achievement called "Into the Nether". The netherstorm contains giant magical devices called manaforges, that suck energy out of the sky, which is then called "nethergon".

Also there are giant fucking streams of magical energy flying across the sky. In every zone. And they weren't there when it was draenor.

>>49801698
>the portals that ripped Draenor apart weren't Legion magic to the best of my knowledge.

>>49801718

And? What? My initial post was "outland is in the nether or connected to it and should be a place demons can die", the reply post was "no it's not connected to the nether it's in the beyond", next was "no it is for this and this reasons". What does your greentext there have to do with that line of argument?

>>49801507
But I don't want Crypt Lords (Ebon Blade can keep them, they work for Bolvar anyway), I want living Spider-Lords.

>>49801659
It was powered with Arcane energies riding through Draenor's ley lines though.

>>49800000
Nice quints, amigo.

>>49801698
Or it lies in between, as it is with some planets that Legion conquered, except they never cared to fully take over it, making it more like Legion's vacation world.

After all, even Netherstorm isn't full of Fel energies, but more of Arcane ones.

>>49801659
It used Scepter of Sargeras, Eye of Dalaran, and Book of Medivh (though this one for knowledge of portals in general), along with utilizing ley lines of Draenor (with Karabor/Black Temple being one of the places where they crossed), and timing with appearance of 3 constellations, that happen to fit those 3 items.

>>49801958

That's the thing, though, Chronicles (>>49797052) specifies that it's not just the Nether itself, but areas on the edge of the Nether, or that have had a serious intrusion from the Legion. And I think, when you have a GIANT GREEN FUCKING VOLCANO, that probably counts?

If Outland isn't a place where "where that volatile maelstrom bleeds into mortal worlds", or an area "inundated with the Burning Legion's energies", then where is?

Anyone got a download link for Chronicles?

>>49802063
Even such locations like Hand of Gul'dan and AU Hellfire Citadel were not close enough, so no. After all,as far as we know, Archimonde's still alive, though slowly reforming.

Outland may appear as around Twisting Nether, but it's nowhere as bad as actual Legion Worlds, like Warlock class hall.

>>49801507
Nope. Even in Warcraft 3:TFT, you didn't have access to crypt fiends and necromancers when playing as Sylvanas.

>>49802378

>tfw no necromancer class

>>49802449
>What is Unholy death knight?

>>49802449
>tfw unholy death knights are basically plate wearing necromancers but Blizzard is intent on ruining the class

>>49802487

Demo locks are closer to necromancers than DKs

Also this >>49802506

>>49802519
Unholy death knights can literally summon armies of ghouls and their own undead minions, and use disease DoTs. The only thing that makes it less of an archetypal necromancer is the lack of cloth armor.

>>49802506
How?

>>49802547

I cant tell if you are serious or baiting. If you think that is what makes a necromancer there is nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

>>49802449

I really don't see how any necromancer class could be anything but a reskin of warlocks.

>>49802547
>How?
blood and frost are fundamentally broken specs and unholy is undertuned and was the worst spec that didn't get buffed in the last round of balance hotfixes

File: Maiev did nothing wrong.png (661KB, 412x664px) Image search: [Google]

661KB, 412x664px

This thread needs to end the way it began.

Best. Elf.

>>49802588
Teach me, O final authority on all things necromancy.

>>49802657
Maining Unholy Death Knight right now and having zero issues with dealing out damage.

Also, Frost was the worst spec at launch of Legion
http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/

>>49802588
I think Necromancers could cover quite a broad spectrum though. Though as >>49802640 notes, it'd be hard for them to be anything that a Warlock doesn't already cover.

>>49802657
How are Blood and Frost fundamentally broken?

>>49802690
>I think Necromancers could cover quite a broad spectrum though.
How so? I can't even imagine 2 specs without having to steal from other classes (Warlocks lost Metamorphosis with introduction of Demon Hunters).

>>49802690
>How are Blood and Frost fundamentally broken?
self-healing tanks will always be sketchy as long as every fight is designed around mitigation tanks, on top of that they're currently very underpowered compared to guardian druids and prot warriors that can just spam excellent mitigation while blood is stuck with bone shield

frost is fucked up because Blizzard has a hard on for making Obliterate undertuned because "you have a 45% chance for it to be good" while discounting the 65% you have for it to be literally a waste of runes compared to the main damage dealers of the other specs

>>49802803
That's what I was getting at. There's no definitive "This is a Necromancer" without it being "but it's also a warlock". I phrased it poorly, my bad.

>>49802814
Interesting, I don't play any tanks so I hadn't considered the differences between self-healing and the regular mitigation model.

Conceptually Frost DK is fine though right? I don't play one but I always got the impression that it kinda sucked, it felt to me like it should be the melee equivalent of a Frost mage. You freeze the opponent and then you shatter them, or you chill them to the bone with endless debuffs until they keel over in the tundra and let death take them. But apparently it's neither of those.

>>49802823
Anyway, bump limit's reached. Someone should start a new thread.

>>49802854
>it felt to me like it should be the melee equivalent of a Frost mage. You freeze the opponent and then you shatter them, or you chill them to the bone with endless debuffs until they keel over in the tundra and let death take them. But apparently it's neither of those.
that's how it should work, but it's based around spamming free crits, so Blizzard makes the baseline damage of it's abilities really bad. For example, on my character right now, with roughly equal ilvls on my frost and uh artifacts, Obliterate does 130k damage with a 45% chance to make Howling Blast free and do 4 times more damage, bumping its damage to 210k; while Festering Strike does 200k damage baseline with a guaranteed chance to do 80-160k more damage when I cast Scourge Strike in the future

on top of this, one of frost's talents (Frostscythe) is objectively better to spend your free crit procs on than Obliterate, but Obliterate is a better rotational ability, so if your free crit procs at the wrong time you can lose DPS by DOING YOUR ROTATION CORRECTLY
for frost to work properly, Frostscythe needs to either be removed from the game or made baseline and your only way to proc crits. I've thought about it being redesigned so that Obliterate stacks a buff that lets your debuffs stack higher, but Blizzard will never implement that because it would be fun and require skill

>>49802814
>and prot warriors that can just spam excellent mitigation while blood is stuck with bone shield
Funny, since prot warriors were complaining about their spec in these very threads.

>>49802900
It's not on page 7 yet.

>>49802683

>Necromancers are melee palte wears who police the world

Really made me think anon.

>>49803001
>Funny, since prot warriors were complaining about their spec in these very threads.
that's fine, they're just building up enough rage to ignore the pain

>>49761068
Qiraji were probably the best of the "original" factions conceived in WoW era. A perfect blend of mystery, creepiness, aesthetics and memorable encounters. Also, great music.

I wonder if they're extinct. Would be great to seem them brought back for the inevitable Old God Rematch expansion.

>>49803269
>>49803269
>>49803269
>>49803269

New thread.