Why are Rangers divine spellcasters?

Why is it that bards can learn to use positive energy to cast cure spells, but other arcane casters can't?

>>49734087
So they can get access to the nature-y druid type spells

>>49734087
Because they usually get druidic magic which gets classified as divine.

>>49734103
Because bards have a "jack of all trades" magic pool but their magic is defined as arcane even though it should be a mix and match of different sources.

Because D&D is retarded

>>49734087
But they aren't divine casters.

>>49734087
Rangers, much like druids, are not divine casters, but rather draw their power directly from nature.

The only divine caster is the cleric; even the Paladin can be empowered by an oath instead of a deity.

Because the Ranger began as Aragorn, and Aragorn is Jesus.

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>>49734087
BECAUSE RANGERS FIGHT FOR JUSTICE!!!!

Because they round out the partial-caster roundup of Bard, Paladin and Ranger being lesser casting versions of Sorcerer, Cleric and Druid respectively.

Because there are only two magical sources; arcane and divine.
"Divine" literally just means "anything that isn't arcane". Arcane magic, known in-setting as the Art, has a specific source: the primordial "pure magic" that springs forth from the setting-dependent God of Magic, usually buffered by something, such as the Weave of Faerun, because it makes mortals explode to touch pure magic directly. The magic caster themself is what shapes arcane magic, hence why it can be learned by anyone.
Divine magic, referred to as the Power, while it is fueled by the same energy as Arcane magic, is molded and shaped by some external force. (That external force does not actually have to be a god, ideals and thoughtforms shape the magic into divine structure just as effectively.) The magic caster has to be accepted by the external force to use divine magic, hence why it can only be used by the faithful. (Even faith in ideas etc.)

tl;dr an arcane caster uses engineering (either conscious or subconscious) to magic, a divine caster uses their heart.

Rangers use druidic magic, which is Primal.

>>49734103
Because bards originally (1e) learned magic from druids, who could heal things because divine magic.

>>49734207
/thread

And this is coming from someone who actually liked 5e.

>>49734389
Back in the days when you didn't fuck with a Bard because he'd wreck your shit, desufampai.

>>49734148
I always thought that they communed with the universal harmonic. They basically have the power to sing to the universe, and tell it what to do. Their charm spells? That's them finding your universal position and basically harmonizing with your cosmic resonant frequency and manipulating you through that.

Of course, that's musical bards. Playwrights, Narrators, and Orators? I'm pretty sure they're able to bullshit the universe into doing magic for them. Of course, the universe knows what they're doing, but these guys simply have too much style not to indulge them.

>>49734420
That's because Bard was equivalent of a prestige class and not available as a starting class.

>>49734420
Which is stupid. Remember that a bard's superpower is music.

>>49734478

Isn't a bit odd that being a master playwright means you can tank a hit from a ballista? I mean, Shakespeare WAS a soldier, but that had nothing to do with the fact that he later became a bard.

>>49734810
Shakespear was an NPC class. Probably expert. As human, he spent his 2 feats on some sort of stacking feat bonus to profession(playwright).

Alterntively, NPCs are not bound by the same laws and follow the same progression as PCs. Just because the blind seer can cast high level divination spells doesn't mean he's a high level cleric. It just means the story needs a person who can cast high level divinations.

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>>49734785

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>>49734278

>>49734895
>implying the Bard wouldn't be a PC

>>49734087
I bet his butthole is divine

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>>49734278
>FIGHT FOR JUSTICE!!!!

>>49734087
As far as I can see in my book, they are Power Source: Primal, not Divine.
I think your book might be wrong, anon.

>>49735819
Fug, I didn't actually look in the book when saying that.
They are Martial, not Primal.

>>49734931
That has nothing to do with anything he implied at all.

>>49734332
this desu

>>49734405

> liking 5e qualifies you to have an opinion

Quite the opposite, friendo.

>>49734332
>Because there are only two magical sources; arcane and divine.
False, you have Psionics/Ki(which are the same thing in 4e), many monster supernatural abilities that aren't related to either.

>>49738126

Don't forget Primal and Shadow.

>>49734087
>Why are Rangers divine spellcasters?

They have access to druidic and magic-user spells, not necessarily "divine" magic.

Since druids call on nature for their powers, I assume the ranger is conscripted into a similar method rather than getting his spells from any gods.

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>>49734087
Ranger should just be "Scout" or "Archer" or "Hunter" and not have magic.

>>49734278
Does a Chaotic Evil cleric of a Chaotic Evil god fight for justice?

>>49738170
If that were the case then they would be redundant and scrapped because fighter can just do what they can do with more feats.

>>49738271
Rangers are redundant. They're better represented through prestige classes, class specializations, or feat trees.

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>>49734278
Why do the new suits look so much worse?

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>>49734785
?

Music is the best superpower

>>49734087
>>49734207
>>49734226
It's because they are more in tune with nature and not actually supposed to be bow wielding yards but a druid like fighter.

They have Divine based spells but are not "true" Divine casters and not really archers.

If you want to play a bow tard archer character I would recommend the class fighter, or archer.

>>49738193

No, they fight for the Patriarchy.

>>49734087
>Distinguishing divine and arcane magic

This is stupid.

>>49738335
Because they're trying to look like Iron Man?

>>49738335
Please tell me this is the concept art the studio threw away for being too ugly then decided to just stick with the old costumes? Please lie and this is what happened. Those look like god awful, try-hard pieces of shit

>>49739827
Magic from gods beind different than other magic isnt a big step anon.

>>49738313
Fighter should be "Soldier" or "Mercenary" anyway.

>>49739810
Kek is true Chaotic, if such an alignment would be possible. If not, he's chaotic neutral, just like us

>>49734785
Not really, it's more like an experienced traveled hero that knows the tales and the stories and uses them to his advantage, not to mention all that experience from being so well traveled.

Also, Bard from the Hobbit.

>>49738170
Nah, Aragorn from LoTR had healing powers.

More to do with him being the True King though.

>>49739778
>>49734207
Rangers were introduced in 1e as a way to play characters resembling Aragorn and Gwydion, popular in fantasy fiction at the time, who fought mainly with cunning. Gwydion was Lloyd Alexander's recasting of Gwydion Fab Don of Welsh mythology, a trickery-fighter similar to Odysseus but who had some magic. Alexander's Gwydion knew a little magic like how to set a magical snare, and this was added into the 1e character class. Like most things in D&D it just hung on as no one wanted to be the goat to get rid of it, while countless players who fancied themselves clever made rangers and died by the cartload. Eventually WoTC explored the question, "what if every character was a shitty ranger?" and thus 4e was born

>>49740066
forgot to mention that they had already put earthen-snare and tracking spells as divine because they were miraculous spells already assigned to clerics. It was thought that there should be a separation of powers where wizards could not cast healing and clerics shouldn't be very good at attack spells. Thus Rangers got healing (Aragorn's use of the magic stone to heal someone) and snare magic (Gwydion's snare trick in The Black Cauldron).

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>>49734785
>implying that the Music of the Spheres is not divine

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I don't see a "divine" anywhere.

Separating "nature" and "divine" was one of the few decent fluff changes 4e made

>>49734923
I don't even get this, did superman just sing darkseid to death?

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>>49738335
That looks like they are about to enter a BMX tournament.

>>49734332
>"Divine" literally just means "anything that isn't arcane"
>goes on to explain exactly what Divine magic is
You are correct, though. Even down to how divine casters can draw their power from ideas and not just gods.

>>49738335
The unnecessary dick-sucking lips on the face. Just go with flat plates goddamnit, or leave them open like Batman cowls.

The rest of the outfit is still a horrible combination of uninspired and overdesigned, but the DSL are the worst aspects.

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>>49738335
Meanwhile, in Japan, they keep releasing simple yet iconic suits year after year

The worst a fan can ask for is that hollywood releases a movie about his prefered franchise

>>49741410
yes

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>>49734278

>>49743971
>The unnecessary dick-sucking lips on the face

But that's the one thing in the original to which they stayed faithful

>>49738126
Psionics aren't magic, and supernatural abilities are generally arcane in origin.

>>49739892

But why does it need to be? Why does a god's power have to be different from Arcane? I mean, the fact they can do things a wizard can't is fine but then you have wizards becoming gods so the fact that "divine" is different from "arcane" is arbitrary.

>>49744967
One you get from faith, the other you get from knowledge and ritual

Why is that somehow not worthy of distinction to you? It's very important to know the source of a caster's spells for the sake of things that might disrupt or empower them. Labeling it as divine or arcane is a useful shorthand that prevents us from needing to detail every particular spell's source, especially in the case with characters that have both arcane and divine spells.

>>49745080

Because there's no need to distinguish ever source from which a spell came from? Mechanically it's even less important because how it looks doesn't matter. You made a fireball by understanding how to draw fire from the elemental plane of fire or you cause air molecules to condense and the resulting friction creates heat or you embody the fire wrath/purity/whatever of god is all window dressing. If anything you can make it simpler by not having some distinction where some things work against each other and some don't. There's no reason why a cleric calling down the thunder can't be stopped by my wizard's magic shield

>>49745206
It's not window dressing because the elemental planes can be blocked, the weave can be disrupted, fire gods can die or disapprove of you, etc. thus the distinction for where your fireball is coming from is important.
The whole point of spells and why they can be as powerful as they sometimes are is that they have specific sources which can be cut off.

>There's no reason why a cleric calling down the thunder can't be stopped by my wizard's magic shield
No one is suggesting otherwise.
Nothing pertaining to this discussion has anything to do with how spells from different sources interact. Call Lightning has no specific interaction with any arcane abjuration spell.

>>49745206
>Because there's no need to distinguish ever source from which a spell came from? Mechanically it's even less important
How about powers that negate arcane only or powers that negate divine only? Or lore-wise? Ashbound druids consider arcane magic to be a vile and profane act, and kill arcane magic users on sight.
Also mechanically divine powers are almost exclusively powered by Wisdom while Arcane is powered by Intelligence or Charisma.

>There's no reason why a cleric calling down the thunder can't be stopped by my wizard's magic shield
That's not even an interaction featured in D&D.

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>>49745345
>The whole point of spells and why they can be as powerful as they sometimes are is that they have specific sources which can be cut off.

Cut off by what? The DM saying that divine powers won't work in a given area or setting. There's nothing mechanically stopping you from allowing other domains in the setting of Dark Sun, it's just held that in that setting the only divine options available are elemental ones and the way arcane interacts with that world is fluff as well.

I suppose what I'm ultimately getting at is mechanically the need for "power sources" is useless on top of the fact I think it's lazy fluff wise as well.

>>49745391
>Also mechanically divine powers are almost exclusively powered by Wisdom while Arcane is powered by Intelligence or Charisma.

I can't remember the name off the top of my head but they used Int as their casting stat to use Divine spells.

>>49745568
>Cut off by what?
Oh so you just ignored the examples I gave?

>>49745080
>Divine Magic comes from faith
Wisdom, the casting stat for clerics, is quite literally the exact opposite of faith. A faithful person doesn't require prior experience or reasoning skills to be faithful, and typically belief or faith is considered to be greater in the ABSENCE of rationality.

Likewise, many arcane casters are Charisma based, witch is more like one's force-of-will or force of personality exerted over the world.

>>49745603

I didn't, I even said those were matters of fluff driven by the settings they are used in. I suppose if you really want to go far enough you can just restrict a class or spell list

"You can be a leader of this religious order but mechanically you're a wizard and not a cleric because something something divine powers don't work here something something."

>>49734087
Outside of Wizard, Sorcs, Clerics, and Paladins, the Divine/Arcane split is nonsense.

>>49734332
>Divine magic, referred to as the Power, while it is fueled by the same energy as Arcane magic, is molded and shaped by some external force.
So why are Warlocks Arcane?

>>49745704
Cause it's oogy boogie lovecraft and devil deals, but that can't be divine or it'd be a cleric! Seriously the concept in D&D for warlock is shit.

>>49734785
>being able to shout someone to death
I mean, that's pretty fucking scary.