Mtg: Modern General

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>>49721827
>Modern Nexus metagame stats are prevalence-based numbers reflecting how frequently a deck appears in tournament Top 8s, Top 16s, and Day 2s (as well as MTGO finishers). It does not consider a deck’s Match Win Percentage (MWP) or other “performance-based” metrics. A deck can be an excellent strategy and a strong metagame choice regardless of its tier, although there is certainly a correlation between frequently played decks and high-performing decks.

First for people sticking with RG Tron in these dark times.

>>49721827
>((((competitive general))))
>No modern pro tours

Do you people like to play pretend?

>>49721886
I don't get why day 2 percentage isn't a much larger factor in how high a deck places. It seems like that's a better measure of how a deck is doing than just how many people are playing it

>>49722003
So what would you call the level of play that wins GPs?

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>>49722061
>the level of play that wins GPs?

None of you has the level of play to win gps though, this thread is as casual as it gets

>>49722096
>>49722003
Here's your (you)
>>49722056
I agree, a mix of both is needed because some decks steal wins so they'll have a disproportionate day 1 number but the decks that are far better will have a much higher day 2, Eldrazi is a good example

>>49722156
thx for proving me right, you're all playing pretend to be pro

>>49722222
(you)

>>49722222
can't argue with numbers like that.

>>49721886
Don't use Modern Nexus anymore, the site is shit now.

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Oh good lord this thread is off to a depressing start.

So here's the results of the last MTGO Modern event. It's more of a control lineup than I was expecting, between UW Control and Boros Nahiri. Should Dredge really count as a combo deck in Modern? It seems so much slower and lacks the Bridge and Dread Returns for a big one-turn-finish like it's Legacy counterpart.

>>49721827
Why would you change the OP? The last one was perfect and clear. Just copy and paste instead of typing everything once more, with typos.

And don't say "not changing the meta at all" yet. The changes are usually slow when a new set comes out.

>KTK only gave us fetchlands !
>FRF only has Monastery Mentor !
>DTK only has sideboard cards !
>BFZ-OGW will do nothing !
>SOI-EMN will have zero impact !

>>49722551
Don't use MTGTop8. That site is a trainwreck because of their horrible deck labels.

Just use MTGGoldfish, man. Same data, better site.

>>49722602

Thanks, will do in the future.

>>49722585
English isn't my first language, my bad

>>49722672
Et alors? Just copy and paste. You don't need to excel at English to do this.

infinite mana fucking sucks and will never be viable in modern

Is melira Pod still good ? Last time I played was before theros

>>49723028
Birthing Pod was banned, but now you have Collected Company instead.

>>49723028
Pod is banned, bro. People tried Melira Podless, it got overtaken by Jund, and eventually evolved into Abzan CoCo. It still works, not very well, but plays differently.

Been thinking about building a second modern deck (first was RG tron). Decided on Naya burn. Besides the basic stock list, anybody got some spicy tech for it? Though honestly seems fairly tuned, without much wiggle room. Trying to find space for git probe is kinda tough

>>49722551
modo events are shit and skew results. You can just prepare for the meta and then build some weird deck that techs against it even though it's not a good deck in paper. Big example of this was BG Infect, it was sniping tourneys on modo but it wasn't putting up paper results

>>49723170
Deflecting palm is amazing

>>49723028
Pod is banned, people moved over to abzan coco. decent deck, but not as good as regular junk.

>>49723196
Yeah palm is going into the side.

Also didn't know destructive revelry was a card, and it is fucking GOAT

First for Jundfags are massive cuckolds.

>>49723170
Burn lists are pretty tight. There's like, 6 flex slots unless you don't run Nacatl.

I like to mainboard Searing Blood instead of searing blaze. Hits the same things, and doesn't require I hold a fetch. Also, a better topdeck.

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Hey tg, currently running this , am thinking of changing geth's verdict for victim of the night or go for the throat, also thinking of putting 2 profane command but am not sure if I what cards switch. 18 swamps 2 ghost quarters and 2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is the mana base.

Any advice will be appreciated

>>49723317
I do like searing blood. Was able to cast three of them on a single dude in casual play once and just blew my opponent out of the fuck water with it. I also don't get why most people don't run a full play set lightning helix along with boros charm.

Is brow beat any good for burn? I don't really wanna main deck anything for 3 mana...

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>>49721886
recent sword and vision unban made an impact

>>49723392
Seems just all around weak to me anon. Have you taken it to FNM yet, or any actual play with it instead of just gold fishing?

Seems like it'd be weak to fast aggro, which is the big boy in the meta right now, seems like midrange junk'd would just grind you out, and as a tron player i'm not seeing anything that causes me concern.

Got a sideboard list you can post?

>>49723411
Before ACommand and Nacatl unban, we were running lightning helix, but its' usefulness was vastly outweighed by those two cards. Some lists still run one or two helix, sometimes in the side (I run two in the side). It's just not as impactful as it used to be.

Also, browbeat is terrible. Never consider it again.

>>49723392
Phyrexian Arena, nigga

>>49723471
Seems like with everyone going aggro right now, the 3 life gain could be enough to bullshit some wins.

>Browbeat
Yeah that's what I figured.

>>49723028
You could try cord of calling instead of pod, but I think most people go for kiki combo with cord instead (by the way, twin is also banned)

>>49723471
>Also, browbeat is terrible. Never consider it again.

oh yeah? Tell that to 2012's RED DECK WINS oh god this list uses Volcanic Hammer what a dark time for burn

>>49723873
Oh, man, do you have a link to that deck list? I need a good chuckle.

>>49723392
Victim can't kill kalitas, zombie fish, or some dredge stuff. I used to like it but it's gotten worse.
A few dismember would help, and a better mana base. Profane is meh to bad unless you can make serious mana.

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>>49723923
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=2622&d=217039&f=MO

>>49723392
Splash for green and run deadly allure for massive keks

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>>49723954
As hilarious as this is, I have to wonder how spicy Everlasting Torment is. I mean, it probably really bad in the current meta, but still, I might try it out. Hell, I might just take this list, or something very similar, to fnm this week. I already have all of that.

This is going to be fun.

>>49724163

Good luck, anon! Let us know how it goes.

>>49723934
how can improve my mana base what you suggest ?

>>49724163
It seems pretty bad on 3 mana but it seems spicy for dealing with the valakut decks., but I doubt burn has too many problems with that anyway

>>49724287
As crazy as it is, up the urborg count to 3 so you can run tech lands like sanitarium, more ghost quarters, 1 or 2 bojuka bog depending on the meta

Thoughts on Jeskai Control as an entry to modern?
Looking at https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-jeskai-control-26155#paper

In some kitchen table brewing around Priest of the Blood Rite, I keep coming back to cards that get used in the linked deck. Restoration Angel, Wall of Omens, and Cryptic Command all help the brew and are useful in modern. Plus I've already got my bolts, helixs, and remands.

The main thing bothering me is that most of the non-creature blue spells can't be used in much outside of a few decks. There's also no BG I'd be picking up while building it either.
These don't seem like cost-efficient lands to be buying into, what with the whole G=B>R>U>W pendulum swing we're on.

Post your delver lists. I can't decide which variant to play.
RUG looks more tempo oriented and goyf is fun but grixis has hard removal and plays ancestral

>Kaladesh is now legal

I thought all Standard sets are released legal for Modern on day one.

>>49721886
>Abzan CoCo T3
>Death Shadow Zoo T2

lolwut

>>49725044
Abzan coco was always a mediocre deck. It only put up so many results because it combated the winter eldrazi decks

>>49724938

it's still novel even if this isnt the very first day its legal.

>>49724903
I cannot atest to rug delver, even though I plan on picking it up soon, but grixis delver is a whole lot of fun. Its been a while and the meta has changed, but burn and aggressive decks are the bane of your existence. Also av is delver seems bad. Way too slow.

>>49723392
Why are you running bob with that curve....

>>49726022
cuz i play kalitas , collective brutallity , and gary, i haven't got kill by bob yet. phyrexian arenas are one turn slow. do you think arenas can improve the deck ?
>>49724579
thanks for the suggestion i will try more ghost quarters , tron decks are a thing in my meta

>>49726284

arenas are more devotion and far less likely to chunk you for a quarter of your life total on the draw

>>49726284
Personally I love the idea of mono black in modern, the issue with it is you have no way of controlling opponents mana. Mono red punishes people with blood moon, there's the black version of that in legacy. Without a way to punish greedy mana bases you may as well join them and push yourself into the rock.
That said I think bitterblossom belongs in your deck, it's a solid clock and helps with blockers. Especially with the amount of life gain you run.
What's your side board look like? Any night of souls
Betrayal

>>49726492
I will try arenas then and see how things go thanks

>>49726573

trust me, they might not be better.

against something like jund, jund will answer your t2 play or your t3 play with abrupt decay. if you drop bob on t2, they're decaying it. if you don't, they're dropping something like scooze and still have decay open for when you drop your arena.

this is why people are just saying it won't work. bob is too risky, arena is slow.

give both a try, maybe you will find a balance that fits for you. but I won't make any promises.

>>49726607
Jund only runs 2 decays now, it's not something they're going to have t2 every game

>looking at cards
>junk rare used in no relevant deck had a price spike

This is the work of speculators, isn't it?
The card in question is Gran Architect.

>>49726607
i beat the shit out jund , but am not sure how many abrupt decay he was running , he used tasigur and grim flayer. i guess i got lucky with the discard and removal

>>49726837
It's almost as if modern isn't the only way to play magic

>>49726837
Grand architect is still like, 2 bucks. There hasn't been a price spoke. Unless I'm looking at the wrong card like an idiot.

>>49726837

there's a 2 card infinite that goes off on-curve turn 3 with pili pala, I'm sure that's exactly why you're buying it.

you can still get them for under a dollar though, certain sellers have a price spike for them but trollandtoad still has them for 80 cents a piece.

>>49727030
mtggoldfish has the price going from 1.40 on 5/18 to 3.20 on 6/18. It's not too dramatic, but the price did double in a month.
>>49727082
Yeah, I wasn't aware of the pili pala trick but that explains the deck using them. I was after the additional mana for artifacts, if Vedalken Engineer and Renowned Weaponsmith weren't enough.

Is it better to make Aristocrat deck on Abzan colors or Golgari? I don't want to make a Jund, never liked red for anything not ultra aggresive.

>>49727128

>that explains the deck using them
hardly, unfortunately. the combo has been around literally years. they haven't gotten any new tech. No idea as to why it's got a resurgence. mtggoldfish hasn't even indicated a price spike, though.

>>49727612
If you did Abzan, you could use white for Rally the Ancestors. Although, I'm not sure what flavor of Aristocrats you're using. You got a list to share?

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>>49727658
>hasn't indicated a price spike
?

Anyway, the resurgence is just someone placing 8th at SCG Burnsville with it, from what I see. Which may not mean much looking at the rest of the top8. It's a shame too, since the combo could power out some of the otherwise unplayable blue cards we've been getting.

>>49721886
Dem conversion rates. Remember when Twin was banned for having a 7% conversion rate?

>>49727852

my b, I was looking at online, not paper.

>>49727852
The most likely possibility is that Kaladesh being announced as an Artifact block was enough for some people to think they might do something that will break him.

>>49727612
With Golgari you have some good cards like: Zulaport Cutthroat (lifedrain), Nantuko Husk (sac outlet for +2/+2), and Catacomb Sifter (1/1 Eldrazi Scion on ETB, Scry 1 when something dies).

If you did Abzan you could get another lifegainer/lifedrainer card Pious Evangel // Wayward Disciple.

>>49727837
I currently have a Golgari Aristocrats deck and would love to improve it, but it's not a competitive deck by any stretch of the imagination.
Posting the list here would probably trigger half the thread
Just wanted to make a fun and interactive deck around sacraficing shit to play with more casuall friends.

For tourneys I got infect and working currently on UR deck, possibly a prowess oriented.

>>49726607

sounds like a job for MIDNIGHT OIL

I'm shitty at brewing and knowing what cards are the staples for certain goals

could someone please spoonfeed me the best ramp options for a green deck that splashes red

I'm not super budget mode but I'm definitely not going to be able to afford all the fetches and shocks the deck might benefit from at this exact moment

>>49728285
>could someone please spoonfeed me
No

>>49728285
Unless you're running elves (don't), you don't have many good options that aren't just lands.

Do it right or don't do it at all.
You are building a Modern deck, right?

>>49728285
The best are
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Search for Tomorrow
Explore
Farseek
In roughly that order.

>>49728169
>>49728169
My Golgari Aristrocrats Deck is basically the event deck for Battle For Zendikar with some adjustments like completing playsets of Nantuko Husk and Zulaport Cutthroat. lt feels a little incomplete. My win condition is just to have a bunch of creatures on the field with Zulaport(s) then Languish for the win.

>>49728509
Add rally the ancestors
>>49728285
Honestly abzan is the way to go, you get voice, cartel aristocrat and rally, not to mention better sideboard options

>>49728553
Meant >>49728285 for >>49728509

>>49728553
>Rally
Nigger no you run Return to the Ranks and Abzan Ascendancy.

>>49728698
Tried ascendancy and found it too win more, a lot of stuff I run already does stuff when it dies. rally gets insane value on 4 mana and is an instant, return is a sorcery and requires either already having creatures, or lots of mana.

>>49728509
>My Golgari Aristrocrats Deck is basically the event deck for Battle For Zendikar with some adjustments like completing playsets of Nantuko Husk and Zulaport Cutthroat. lt feels a little incomplete. My win condition is just to have a bunch of creatures on the field with Zulaport(s) then Languish for the win.
Have to agree to go Abzan. Instead of Languish you can run Wrath/Day, alongside Selfless Spirit.

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>>49728509
Is there a reason you play Nantuko over pic related?

>>49727612
I run esper humans (aristocrats) most are humans anyhow

>>49729393
What does blue give you

>>49729699
Snabgasder Mage :^)

>>49724903
RUG delverer here

I run some Huntmasters and Bedlam Revelers in my sideboard and they do well to level out against midrange. Hooting Mandrills get into play very quickly so grab some of those. Goyf is a good choice as always. Counterspells and bolt are your best tempo options, so get leaks, remands, snares, pierces, stubborn denials, etc. Cheap counters, cantrips like probe/thought scour/serum visions, red removal, and green fatties are going to secure the game all while delvers hit the face.

The problems I've been having are with Kalitas though. You should watch for Kalitas and act quickly or he will grow into a major ass pain.

>>49730129
Any success with simic charm?

>>49730158
I run two mainboard. It has flexibility but some modes dont feel super duper flexible. The one that gives your permanents hexproof is great, the one that bounces a creature is okay, the pump option only really works in conjunction with a temur battle rage as you can pump-battlerage to get +3/+3, trample, doublestrike. If you get it on a delver you can hit for 12 easy.

>>49730262
Mkay,I'm not that original guy, I've been trying 1but I've never gotten to cast it, I'll up it to 2

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>>49723392
i support flaying tendrils in the side. not sure what you can do against tron. maybe shadow of doubt?

>>49724938
cockatrice list is close to pic.

RUG definitely feels better suited to go fast. I had two games yesterday where on turn 3 i untapped with 7 evasive power on board.
i kinda think rug gets a better sideboard too. you get: never lose to burn aka feed the clan, traverse-reveler package, the ability to handle enchantments with destructive revelry, and damage sweepers that don't wreck your own board.
As far as grixis, i think k command is more exciting than av and since you're probably running full snaps you can grind pretty hard. Grixis also has a more harmonious aesthetic i feel since thought scour and like, paying life for info and cards feels more black than green. the art in rug has a kind of awkward mix of light and dark whereas grixis has just all dark and gnarly stuff

>>49730158
on the fence between simic and izzet charms. i feel like a quarter of the time they sit in hand and half the time i pitch 'em to shoal.

>>49726837
i just got wrecked by a deck using aether vial, architect, and chief engineer to power out thorn of amethyst and lodestone golems real fast.

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>>49724903
Here ya go bb. Much love from the jungle

>>49728421
Farseek is better than explore

>>49722003
>Do you people like to play pretend
YOU ARE ON
FUCKING
/TG/

>>49730962
Lmao this

>>49730739
I love your pics. This deck is so sexy

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>>49721827
Been forever since I've posted, or played for that matter. I play this as a big boy modern deck. Can't find my second damnation, I probably lost it so whatevs. saw a sultai list went 9-0 recently so that's sweet. Here's hoping it doesn't post sideways

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>>49731644
Fuck yeah, upside down! Even worse! And this is a fun deck I slapped together and have had a chance to play all of once over the year I've had it

>>49731691
Supreme verdict scares the shit out of me

>>49731704
Playing? Im considering also putting a with of God in, to get around regenerate

>>49731725
Infect
There's no reason to run wrath over verdict, counters see more play than regeneration. The only deck that really uses regeneration is Elves with Ezuri and that's not a big deal

>>49731761
Golgari charm also regens, it's more or less for thrun but he hasn't seen serious play since twin died so you're super right. I didn't even think of elves because noone around plays it.

>>49731775
Verdict is great against Infect, a lot of people have been dropping copies of Blessing for Blossoming defense because it's quite a bit better against decks like Jund and Junk and just relying on spell pierces and dispels to carry them through trouble, but verdict really fucks with that

>>49731811
>hexproof pump
Holy fuck, just looked that up. That's fucking nasty. I haven't had time to even keep up with kaladesh or new innistrad.

>>49729699
Reflector mage, spell queller, serum visions, probe, mana leak, supreme verdict, spell snare, spell pierce.

Reflector , verdict, and queller are good enough to warrant a splash for main board and side board. But mostly side board.

The deck plays mostly like human tribal but has free wins installed naturally.
Cartel Aristocrat is definitely mvp in here.

>>49729202
Depends on the curve and whether or not you want your sac outlet to become bolt proof when needed.

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>>49731644
you should seriously pick up collective brutality


here's my list right now
sorry for potato quality

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>>49732039
Pic related

>>49732158
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/garbage-gifts-a-four-color-junk/
decklist

>>49732158
Just looked it up, so first off I assume it's for the infect matches cause 2 modes look good against them

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>>49732169
>comparing a dual color to a monocolor when the conversation thus far has been about flexibility of cards and when to choose one over the other

>>49732212
it's great against burn, infect and along with being additional removal

>>49732169
But this is about Sac outlets in a Golgari aristocrats deck.
Who the fuck splashes White for this?

Chill it with trying to force your waifu into every deck.

>>49732245
Burn? For the removal and discard that actually makes sense. Yeah sultai is low on removal so any and all options are good. I'm considering even a hero's downfall for hard removal which Fucking sucks

>>49732274
Dude Brutality is so amazingly strong, just look at Jund and Abzan both pack at least two somewhere in the 75

Against burn it can be a huge trump card

>>49732347
Any card that can impact Jund enough to be a 2 of is absolutely insane, I'll pickup some asap

>>49732269
>Being this new
Holy shit

I just lost against a standard deck and I wanna kill myself.

I went 1-3 and only won that game because I got lucky. I usually go 4-0 or 3-1 at that place, I am really salty right now

>>49733268
Lol what were yours and his lists? Hahaha how does that even happen?

>getting angry about riffle shuffling
how to spot underage b& 101

>>49733268

I play Bw tokens and he was playing Rw vehicles.

First game I got stuck with a 3 land hand and second game he just played declaration in stone

>>49732269
Guess I don't want to play trash cards?

>>49733558
>BW tokens
Post list, this sounds funny

>>49733661

??? How new are you?

>>49733661
Tokens is one of those eternal tier 2 decks

It's hardly a new thing

>>49733693
>>49733728
I know that BW tokens is a deck you cunts, I want to see his list.
It's just one of those budget decks and I have a feeling his list has a glaring flaw somewhere, especially if he lost to Vehicles. Declaration shouldn't have been enough to stop him.

>>49733761

Its not a bugdet list you asperger.

X4 Bitter
X4 virtue
X4 Spectral
X4 Lingering
X4 path
X4 Inquisition
X3 Thoughtseize
X2 zealous persecution
X2 Gideon zendiksr
X2 Sorin solenm
X1 dismember
X1 Murderous cut
X1 Timely

I am too lazy to post Sb and lands, it was just a shitty day with variance and bad draws ( if i fucking make you discard two coronet dont you fucking dare to draw the third one) and I am just venting

>>49733865
>24 lands
>7 discard
>only 2 Persecution
>no Lili
Also I hope you're going hard with that stax-esque GQ/Flagstones mana base for the Tron and Valakut MUs

In the current meta, what is one looking to hit with Engineered Explosives?

>>49733865
>I am too lazy to post the lands
>no Lilianas either
>It's not a bugdet [sic] list you asperger

You do have the lands, right?
You've just chosen not the post them so we'll assume you have the lands you need, right?
You're not listing the lands because you don't know which of the lands you should and should not be running, right?

>>49734238
Infect dudes
Bogles
Burn dudes
Most of Jund's threats
Spirit Tokens
Tribal shenanigans
Racks and Bridges

>>49733865
>poorly spelled, less than informative posts
>"and I am just venting"

Love these quality posts. Thanks for contributing to the thread, lad.

>>49733928
>>49734367
>>49734379


Jesus fuck what a bunch of aspergers.Fine here are the lands

X3 Plains
X1 Swamp
X4 Marsh flats
X2 Flooded strand
X2 Isolated Chapel
X2 Shambling vent
X2 Vault
X2 Ghost
X3 godless shrine
X3 Windbrisk heights

If you think liliana is good for the deck then your opinion about the deck and modern is instantly discarded.

Also I dont speak english you retards

>>49734648
>Also I dont speak english you retards
>So I'll continue making basic mistakes like punctuation instead of trying to learn.

Any reason not to put RG Tron back together? The way I reason the only MU you're still not winning is Infect but with 4 Wurmcoil Engines mb and Fogs in addition to the usual stuff in the sideboard you should have some game vs Dredge, Suicide Zoo and Burn. Abzan is on the rise which is a bye, RG Titanshift can be fought against with Warping Wail (against Crumble and Scapeshift, you can Karn/Oblivion Stone titan and Ulamog Valakuts).

>>49734820
Tron should be great at the moment. Sideboard fogs and sudden shocks vs infect, anger of the gods, generic gravehate, wail/contortion, and even crumbles of your own vs valakuk decks (you can find it with stirrings). Add in some claims, maybe some skite or some lifegain and you're golden.

>>49734865
Anger is pretty uncastable since it's 1RR, I'm currently debating between Pyroclasm, Bolt, Firespout and Kozilek's Return in the mb.
I'm thinking like:

2 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Karn Liberated
3 Oblivion Stone
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Pyroclasm
1 World Breaker
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Warping Wail
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 Fog
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Crumble to Dust

Not really even trying to beat Infect with Sudden Shock which is lackluster in every other MU, but both Warping Wail and Fog do something.

>>49721886

>bogles
>more day 2 presence than a half of tier 2 decks
>tier 3 now

What happened?

>>49721827
White: wrath of god
Blue: gifts ungiven
Black: damnation
Red: chandra
Green: coco

>>49722543
Its the only site that at least knows how to properly process statics

Reminder that Modern still has the problem of lacking a universal answer to decks, ie. Force of Will and Wasteland, and without them the format will continue to be a shitstorm of proactive decks that get away with greedy mana bases.

>>49735479
Fuck off.

>>49735481
Did I hit a sore spot? :^)

>>49735543

No, but if you think that Force is a universal answer to everything then you're an obvious shitposter, the card is trash in grindy matchups.

>>49735599
>the card is trash in grindy matchups
So it's good against 80% of the format and buys you time to land a sweeper in game 1 of the other 20%? Oh no how awful.

>>49735619

It's also pretty bad against really fast aggro decks, like burn and affinity. You also have to be heavy blue to make use of it, which currently isn't that much of a thing due to lack of good cheap spells.

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>>49721827

>>49735683
I'd happily Force a Goblin Guide or Ravager in Modern. Sure I'm down a card and all that jazz, but those cards are huge threats.

>>49735708
T1-2 ravager without a board to eat if you have path up isn't even a threat. Oh noes, he got 3 power transferred to Ornithopter, what can I do?

>>49735715
>T1-2 ravager without a board to eat if you have path up isn't even a threat
No fucking shit there Sherlock. I know you Modern cucks like your flowcharts but do you seriously think that I'd do the exact same thing every time I see a certain spell cast regardless of what's in my hand?

without artifact lands ravager is shit

>>49735728
By turn 3-4 you wouldn't even need fow anymore, making your point moot. Make up your damn mind.

>>49735740
Then it's done its job of helping me survive through the early game.

>>49735715
but would forcing a goblin guide or ravager be overpowered? And keep in mind with this that control is still really bad in modern, and that FoW does require you to play a significant amount of blue spells when even the control decks that are putting up results are all tricolored and relatively light on blue spells compared to legacy decks

The one thing that is dangerous about making FoW modern legal is that it would push Infect over the top but that deck is in need of a ban anyways

>>49735743
A card that helps you counter not-really-threats on turns 1 and 2 helps you survive the early game? Dude just play a Path followed by a Wrath/the sideboard bullet of your choice.

>>49735744
>ban infect boohoo
Christ.

as an infect player why are control match ups so fucking annoying?

Especially when you git probe them, see their 5 answers in hand and realize you have no way to get around it because they have spellskite on board.

Also would you fuck elesh norn?

>>49735751
>Dude just play a Path
Path is a fucking awful removal spell that only sees play because there's no good 1 mana removal in Modern. It's actually fucking terrible in the early game, which is when you need removal the most.

>>49735751
you can't path turn 1 threats, ramping your opponent does more bad than good

>>49735762
hush, you're playing the strongest deck in modern by a mile, you have no right to complain getting godhanded once or twice

>>49735762
>Also would you fuck elesh norn?

Why is that even a question?

>>49735762
>spellskite ever being an issue
l2twimage and nature's claim
Also Invisible Stalker (or Rancor+Wild Defiance) wins grindy matches by itself even if you just turn it sideways 10-15 times, just keep spell pierce up for game-enders.
>>49735774
Affinity's bottleneck is cards in hand, not mana, Death's Shadow doesn't run basics, Infect's bottleneck is its 12 creatures, not mana, Path is the absolute best card vs hyperaggro after "you win the game" cards like Stony Silence and Shatterstorm.

>>49735765
> there's no good 1 mana removal in Modern

>What are :
Path
Bolt
Dismember
Deathmark
Vapor Snag
Condemn
Reciprocate
?

>>49735789
you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes but when you can prevent it you do not want to spend path early as the ramp is relevant. Pathing an unprotected Glistener Elf is correct but it also puts you at a disadvantage for the rest of the match

>>49735789
>Path is the absolute best card vs hyperaggro after "you win the game" cards
I would argue that Force of Will would be even better just because it answers anything. Prevents Primeval Titan from getting triggers, hit Cranial Plating rather than making him pay another mana to equip it elsewhere, hits Aether Vial, hits Lilly.

>Path
Is only borderline.
>Bolt
Goes face most of the time.
>Dismember
Hurts too much to play for 1 mana in a lot of matchups.
>Deathmark
Is a niche sideboard card.
>Vapor Snag
LOL
>Condemn
LOL
>Reciprocate
Like seriously you're scraping the bottom of the barrel here. You didn't even say Disfigure.

>>49734648

Personally i'd cut to one or two Windbrisk Heights and add in some Flagstones of Trokair and cut the Flooded Strands. Ghost Quartering your own Flagstones is like double value over playing off-colour fetches for both fixing and pseudo ramp. Flagstones lets you fetch any plains card as well so you can get Godless Shrines with them.

>>49735801
Why no Tragic Slip?

It has a conditionall but it's good imo as a sideboard card in some matchups

>>49735479

Modern does not need Force of Will. There is no equivalent of Belcher or Oops all spells.dec in Modern that will need answering absolutely or you lose.

>>49735832
It doesn't need Tenement Crasher either but yet here we are.

>>49735808
In a vacuum sure, in reality the odds that you lose because your opponent has the 1 extra mana to cast ~ are infinitesimal.
>>49735815
>bolt goes to face most of the time
lmao
Condemn is basically plow light, can't imagine why you'd find it funny. Only thing it doesn't answer 100% of the time is Eidolon.

>>49735836

Lol wut? How is that even a relevant card or argument?

>>49735840
>Only thing it doesn't answer 100% of the time is Eidolon
You're casting your removal before damage in your opponent's turn. That's EXACTLY when Infect wants you to cast it. And it doesn't answer Ravager.

>>49735842
What harm is there in the card being there if its presence doesn't have a negative effect on the format?

>>49735840
Do you also think having an early manadork is irrelevant? Do you think there is a reason Infect plays Noble Hierarch instead of Cathedral of War?

>>49735856
Fow would push Infect to tier 0 while being a shit card for control since the decks you're fighting against are Burn and Affinity, not Spanish Inquisition and Belcher.

>>49735866
No, but the games which Infect wins _only and specifically_ of the 1 extra mana from an unanswered Noble and not because of the Exalted trigger are few and far between. Same applies to losing because you Pathed their turn 1 play.

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FoW would do nothing for Modern other than making infect overpowered. What Modern needs is a deck that punishes you for not interacting

>>49735867
>Fow would push Infect to tier 0
Infect in Modern is too green for FoW. The Legacy version gets to cantrip with Ponder and cycle away dead cards with Brainstorm, but in Modern you're stuck with a hand full of green pump spells. T2 kills already consume your entire hand, you don't have 2 cards to spare.

>>49735881
because of the 1 extra mana*

>>49735890
You'd cut mutagenics and all other low-impact cards for Serum Visions and Sleight of Hands in an instant if fow became unbanned. Most kills are done with 2 grounswells/mooks/become immense with spell pierce/blossoming/apostle backup.

>>49735890
And you don't go for a turn 2 vs basically anything but Tron or Nahiri piles that open with a tapped land.

>>49735881
I completely disagree, when playing Jeskai Nahiri the reason infect manages to win is EXACTLY because of extra mana. Being able to come in with pump spells early with protection up before I can stabilize or forcing me to spend removal on Noble Hierarch. Same goes for burn when you have to path an early Goblin Guide and they can empty their hand on 3 mana next turn or apply pressure whilst keeping open atarka/skullcrack

>>49734820
>Any reason not to put RG Tron back together?
Yeah, not being a total faggot is a pretty big reason to not play tron

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>>49721886
>Ad Nauseam
>paper metagame 3.1%
>day 2 metagame 0.0%

>>49735883
Fuck that card. That deck was nothing but uninteractive bullshit. It's no better than infect. Sure it could kinda win through slow beat down but that rarely ever happened. You need to watch this one video on magic bns by desolator magic on YouTube, he cuts it straight and explains it well

>>49736252
Can't honestly tell if trolling at this point.

>>49735785
Well, would you?

>>49735789
How 2 magically draw up these cards when there's a max of 2 copies each in a typical deck list?

I find it extremely hard to have any sort of advantage.

>>49736317
It's strictly wrong to not run 3 Twimages, given that its opportunity cost is close to zero, it feeds Delve and kills mana dorks, Ornithopter, opposing Noble in the mirror and Spellskite. There's also Dismember for skite.

>>49736335
the opportunity cost of the third twisted image is a spell pierce or dispel, and at that point I don't think it's worth it.

>>49736125
I'm not surprised

The deck literally can't win against infect

>>49721886
>Grixis Control
>Day 2 Metagame 0.0%

Unban Mindsculptor please

>>49736265
He gave it away as soon as a brought up desolator

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Ban Become Immense Y/N?

>>49736825
No. Wizards needs to Stop Fucking banning shit. Infect is only good because twin is gone.

>>49736919
Unban Twin

Make Magic great again

>>49736825
If WotC decides Infect is too strong they will ban Glistener Elf or Inkmoth Nexus, not Become Immense: just like with Pod they will ban the engine, not the enablers

then again they did ban Summer Bloom over Amulet of Vigor

>>49737056
Their logic is to ban the parts but not kill the whole deck. They nt to slow the best decks and urban cards to give birth to new archetypes and decks, it Golgari grave troll

That's why they banned cloudpost

That's why they banned jitte, and for good measure stone forge mystic

That's why they banned twin

That's why they banned pod

they've had the most inconsistent logic, it's so Fucking annoying. They claim they want to ban only enablers but leave the engine butthat hasn't been the case. Pod is the only ban that makes sense, they couldn't ban any other part of the deck.
They could have left jitte banned and unbanned sfm
They could have banned exarch
Etc.

>>49737108
*want **ex:
Sorry, new phone problems

>>49735762
Control is fine, just never ever use pump spells
I know that's an oversimplification but that's how I do it, people aren't afraid of taking 1-2 poison every turn but throw down a Might of Old Krosa and everyone loses their shit

>>49737108
>That's why they banned cloudpost
no, cloudpost was beyond fucking retarded
I get that it's supposed to be a turn 4 format but hardcasting emrakul with 4 lands is absurd

>>49737409
That rarely, if ever, happened. The goal of the deck was to turn 3-4 prime time and use him to ramp harder.

>>49737429
I didn't say that it played Emrakul on turn 4, I said being able to hardcast him with 4 lands was absurd.

>>49737452
You're right that it's retarded but you're using the wrong argument which makes it look like you're wrong

The actual reason cloudpost is retarded is that it's supertron that is also much harder to disrupt

>>49737495
Yes, you are right
I'm not really disagreeing with you

>>49735883
>What Modern needs is a deck that punishes you for not interacting

Infect?

>>49737698

Jund does this also unless youre uninteractively spewing card advantage like dredge, it forces interaction with hand hate and one for ones out the wazoo

is b/w Eldrazi and Taxes the best hatebears deck in modern? are there any advantages of going mono white?

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http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-10-16-naya-humans/

a silly brew i put together. the bolts feel weird in it.

>>49740794
if you have two of that card on the field and play a different human, does each lieutenant get +2/+2 since the card doesn't specify "this card", but rather "named card"?

>>49740794
anytime it uses the name of the card, it means this one card

>>49740891
so it must specify "all cards of [name]" in order to effect more than just itself when multiple copies are out?

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>>49740917
yep
<<<<see

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>>49740794
The big question is, can these two be abused with Aerther Vial? i don't think you can inter-lay the triggers.

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almost ready for FNM

>>49743433
>Ravnica Imp
>Ravnica Troll
>Duel Deck Loam

What's wrong with you?

>>49743648

Ravnica imp is objectively better. The other two are essentially the same

>>49743725
Then get Ravnica Loams man.

>>49743804

I'm not him though. Maybe he got dd loams because they're $1 cheaper on average than Ravnica ones

>>49743648
The color on Ravnica Imp is great, my friend. Dose purples and greens.
(No offence to the latter printing though, Nils Hamm has some phenomenal work)

>>49743837
Ultimate Jew mode.

>>49743972
Nah.
Ultimate Jew Mode is buying heavily damaged imps for $0.32

Is sylvan scrying good enough for tron eldrazis?

I have huge problems getting ancient stirrings and crop rotations.

>>49744259
Ancient Stirrings is a necessity, it pulls gas
Sylvan Scrying is a necessity, it turns on tron

>>49744259
>crop rotations.
>modern

>>49744339
Fuck, my bad with Crop Rotation.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-09-16-zoo2/
i could just make this naya burn with 4 bloodstained and the rest of the burn package right? should i move my duals around in number? take out some stoming grounds for sacreds?

>>49737108
the obvious solution was to ban viscera seer and deceiver exarch.

without seer, pod is forced into kiki combo (without exarch) or pure value. without exarch, twin has all it's combo creatures die to lightning bolt.
it's not perfect, but it's better by a fair bit i think.

>>49744690
But anon.
The goal was to shake up the meta, not balance the game.

>>49744724
if they wanted to shake it up they should have banned mox opal, liliana of the veil, ancient stirrings, and lightning bolt. that'd fuck shit up harder than $50,000 alimony payments.

>>49722096
Holly shit fuck off

>>49737698
People here would argue that Infect also punishes you FOR interacting. Since the deck has a lot of anti-removal resilience.

>>49723317
>i play searing blood over blaze
Jesus /tg/ really is bad at magic.

>>49744724
>goal to shake up the meta

That's a really autistic justification

You could also throw darts at a card list and just ban forests, thoughtseize, storm crow and chancellor of spires and then unban tree of tales and cloud post

If you want to "shake up the meta" you bet your ass it would

The banlist goal should be to strive for a balanced game NOT to ban twin because it might hurt your leldrazi sales

>>49745145
>muh BAN ISLAND

I dunno, currently I don't think the meta is too cancerous.

The only infinite combo that exists (and is reasonably easy to reach) is the one with melira and madcap/finks, but that deck ususally wins with beatdown before you get to that point.

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>>49745182
>I don't think the meta is too cancerous

>>49745202
what's wrong with it?

there's no single deck that is objectively faster or better than all the others.

besides channel fireball really pushing abzan company, when was the last time in the current banlist that a single deck archetype took up >30% in the top 16-64, depending on event?

>>49745234
>there's no single deck that is objectively faster or better than all the others.

Infect is easily the best modern deck currently

>>49745253
infect has only won 1 gp (i think) in the past 6+ months.

why do you think it's the best? i think it's definitely good but it doesn't dominate the meta, therefore doesn't deserve a ban.

>>49745182
Well there's also Spike Feeder/Archangel, Resto/Kiki, and Grand Architect/Pili-Pala

>>49745304
How often do you see these compared to abzam company?

>>49745182
Format Health =/= Legal Infinite Combos

>>49745145
You're aware that the reason he cited there was one of the more popular one with column authors, right?

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-real-reason-splinter-twin-got-banned

I can posts dozens of these. This one is the only one that actually has much of a point beyond just being the author's clickbait paycheck.

>>49745336
I didn't claim that it was equal, but certainly not having an easily accessibly infinite combo that is objectively better than the rest of the decks is a good thing.

>>49745383
I think there's more to it.
It's much easier to protect a combo in blue, Exarch has flash & survives bolt, the combo doesn't require a sacrifice engine, and it doesn't require graveyard interaction.

>>49745362
This is really insightful & sheds new light on the ban

>people are still upset at Twin

Not even the most played deck during it's time and even then it's day 2 percentages weren't amazing either

I feel like everyone that fumes at the deck got twinned once turn 4 without holding up interaction and went home and punched holes in their wall

>>49745336

Not that anon, but I'd argue in any extended format(defined as a card pool significantly larger and over more sets than standard) that "infinite" combos can help keep the format healthy.

You have to remember that as a general rule combo(generally inf combos) beats aggro, aggro beats control, control beats combo.

When you have a format without strong combo decks, it naturally becomes simply aggro beats combo, and nearly all of your meta becomes aggro, and the couple decks with real interaction shift more to the aggro side of things. This is what is truly cancerous about the current meta.

Note: the current meta is >65% aggro

>>49741916
If you're attacking with Garrison, and you want your tokens to be 2/2, you vial in Lieutenant between dec attackers and dec blockers step, after the Garrison trigger resolves. If you want Lieutenant to be a 3/3, you play/vial it before Garrison's trigger resolves. There's no way to finagle the stack to have your pie and eat it too.

So I have Titanshift, Dredge, or Ad Nauseam for GP Dallas. What should I play? I am most comfortable with Titanshift and am leaning towards that, is there a reason I should pick one of the other two?

Where are my Skred homies at?

Anyone tried out running the new Chandra in Skred yet? How did it go?

>>49746050
No, that's the best choice. AN has an almost auto-lose matchup, Dredge gets hated quite a bit although that's slowly changing and it isn't hated out quite as much.
Titanshift is good, run that, especially if it's what you're comfortable with

>>49746050
fuck. Speaking of GP dallas

>tfw really want to go
>tfw can't afford to spend flight and hotel money when my rent is raising by $300 in december

fucking REEEEEEEE i just want to go to a modern GP near me already

>>49746418
>tfw want to go but don't have enough money saved for hotel fare AND airefare
I know those feels brother

>>49746418
>>49746841
mail me your decks & IDs, I only live a couple hours away :^)

>>49746859
I'm going to Milwaukee instead, I don't have to pay really anything for travel fare but hotels are a bitch. It's not the same but it's at least an event which sates me

>>49745500
People are upset that it was banned when it had no good reason to be. They said it was to increase competitive diversity when really they wanted to just shake up the meta to make the protour exciting.
People have every right to be upset. I know more than one person that outright quit magic over it

>>49746841
>flight from CA is at least $150 each way
>hotel higher than 2 star is ~$150+ a night

i spent all my money at PAX, now i want to die

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u fuckin wot

>>49745954
Not him but modern is a format without a healthy control archetype, or combo archetype. It's midrange decks attempt to control the field as best they can but there is no reason to not just run the most uninteractive, linear aggro strategy.

>>49747080
Not every card in his deck has to be jank you retard

>>49747107
>without a healthy control archetype, or combo archetype
Modern has never had a strong control archetype, even since day 1. Bryan Kibler was talking about that even at PT Philly

>>49747144
I know. It's fucking stupid how the closest modern has ever come to control decks are midrange or a "control"- combo deck

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perhaps I can get some help on my Mono-red goblin deck? I last played in 2013 and just got back into it a couple weeks ago. I sold off all my cards back then and I bought a bunch of goblins I remember using as well as some new ones.This isn't my only deck, but I really like Goblins in general, so i want to make them as good as they can be.

so with some practice games, I find with lackey and warren instigator in the deck, mogg war marshal doesn't have much of a purpose. I get my lords out quickly and with all the other token generators he seems kinda redundant.

I haven't drawn Shared animosity once in a game, so i haven't been able to see how it works, but it seems kind of overkill with rabble master, pile-driver and lord buffs. I talked to another player at my local card shop and he already suggested I remove my coat of arms.

finally, hand issues. strong field presence, but no back up in case I get wiped. I suppose I am to just hope that the game doesn't go long and i wipe them out by turn 4-5?

am I wrong in these observations? what can I do to improve this deck?

So modern is dead?

>>49747204
Get fetches, get aether vials
Maybe make it RB or RW, or go RG and make it more like Burn

>>49747243
If you're a bluefag who can't live without playing control yeah.

>>49747249
This, also a set of guides and blood moons

>>49747204

Goblin Lackey isn't Modern legal. Did you mean to post in the Legacy thread?

>>49747291
Oh yeah, this
Can't believe I forgot those

Basically you're going to have to play the deck as aggro/slight midrange, like a poor man's Jund, except you can flood the board. Might do well at FNM

>>49747204
Oh yeah, Goblin Lackey isn't legal in modern either

>>49747204
goblin lackey isn't modern for one. I'd suggest looking up deck lists of goblins for the formats you are interested in. Lightning bolt and goblin grenade are a must for making games end faster.

>>49747317
>>49747349
>>49747365


oh yeah, i forgot he wasn't legal in Modern. it has been a few years. so for replacements I should use what? Goblin guide, bushwhacker, or bump instigator to 4?

what about the other cards i mentioned like mogg war-marshal and shared animosity? I can just move my Aether vial from my Kaladesh deck into my goblins.

>>49747204
with so many cards that make tokens you should be able to rebuild ok after a wipe. war marshal helps this resilience to removal so i think you should keep it
lands: as a monocolor deck you should be able to find room for some mutavaults or caverns

>>49723392
Im going to be a big fag and try and get some advice on my own deck through yours. I run this for my 8-rack/land destruct deck: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/16-09-16-assisted-suicide/.

I've had some decent success with this despite too poor to blow $100+ on single cards, but I want to make the deck more interesting.

Im trying to decide what my stall/protection is going to be. I ran 4x geths verdict but often found my opponents had disposable creatures, so im considering running Darkness or just fogs in general while I go after their hand.

This is my first 8-rack deck so im mainly gauging success by how upset people get playing against it.

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>>49745253
>Go to 3 PPTQs
>top 8 two of them
>1 Infect in top 8 of 2nd PPTQ (only one infect player in top tables out of all 3 PPTQs)
>see same infect player at last PPTQ, ask him how he's doing
>1-3 record, offer condolences
And he wasn't a bad player... was my only loss in the swiss at the 2nd PPTQ (I had some seriously shitty draws against him).

>>49746050
>So I have Titanshift, Dredge, or Ad Nauseam for GP Dallas. What should I play?
What about Breach Titan?

>>49750343
I think you and him need to run a player of smallpox and splash to run tasigur or zombie fish. Theres no reason to not have a 1 mana 4/5 or 5/5 in the late game. If you run tasigur than you can also play shizo, death's storehouse and make him nearly unblockable

>>49752165
*playset of smallpox. Either run tasigur with a splash to activate, or zombie fish

What would white need to be a relevant color? It's only worth splashing right now for path, stony silence, etc., which may not even be mainboarded.

>>49752482

Given that Junk and Abzan are outperforming Jund, and Hatebears and UW Control are positioned well, I'd say White is already the most relevant control color.

I dunno, you could give white One Turn Kill combo like what Green and Red have to push it further, I guess.

>>49752482
Probably SFM, or some similar low- cost high- impact creature. It doesn't even need much, really, just a little something.

>>49752482
White has nothing that gains incremental advantage. Theres no land tax/parfait for modern. Theres no cheating mana/tutor like sfm. All white has for modern is "fixed" exchanges, ex: path, and archetype killing effects, ex: rip, stony silence. And these effects arent worth mainboarding because most of the meta doesn't care about the highly specific hate effects

>>49752545
Wait a sec, since when was Junk outperforming Jund?

>>49752545
Those aren't really pure mono white.
>>49752482
You have soul sisters I guess

>>49752559
For a while now, where you been?
It's not as popular but it's much better positioned

>>49752559

Since Shadows over Innistrad, if I remember correctly. It might have been even earlier.

>>49752571
>it sees less play but I think it's better
Okay. Opinion = fact

>>49752627

Go look at the events, man. Jund has been having worse showings than Junk despite being played more.

>>49752571
>>49752579
So it's better positioned, but has a worse Day 2 percentage than Jund? It's 'better' but much less played? How exactly does that work?

What exactly makes junk better positioned?

>>49752676
Where are you getting stats from?

DELVER PLAYERS

How do you guys feel about the Young Pyro + Git probe lists as opposed to more counter magic and v clique?

>>49753782
I play ur, and I really like them. Also comes with 3 bedlam revelers.

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>>49753782
In my Grixis Delver list I personally like the Young Pyro + Probe package. I feel like in general counterspells are more of a liability usually.

Being proactive with Pyro and having another good proactive threat is a bit better in modern currently.

>>49752676
Look at the top 8's from the last major paper events retard

It won MOCS, beating Jund, and had another in the top 8
Showed up twice in the top at the New Holland IQ
Top 8 in the last PTQ, with no Jund in that top 8
Showed up in Atlanta, with no Jund
Not to mention the two times that Abzan Coco took a tournament
When Jund and Junk show up, Junk is placing higher.

>>49753782
I think pyro is better for any build that isn't rug.

Who /azorious/ here?
Fuck bant, fuck jeskai

>>49754305
>Being Lawful Stupid

Git boy, GIT!

>>49754395
I bet you play grixis

>>49754305

How does it feel having the worst mechanic of all time? At least things like hellbent went on to represent in game ideas and exalted has a relevant card

>>49754305
Your deck is bad and boring. You're most likely poor

>>49754527
AM I BEING DETAINED??!

>>49754305

For some reason I read rakdos
Jeskai mechanic became evergreen get fucked
Azorius stays shit forever and ever, in theme, in design, and in deck colors

>>49754566

I forgot about that
I was thinking about Forecast

>>49754527
>tfw Temur
Ferocious is one of my favourite mechanics

>>49755114
>mfw your opponent sees you pull two Sabertooth outriders from of your graveyard

>>49754527
idk man I feel like cypher is pretty bad.

>>49755435
Cipher was like Rebound: a decent idea, but everything costs too much and takes too long.

>Paranoid Delusions is a 2 drop, target mills 3
>but drawing a card is a 4 drop
>and bouncing creatures is a 4 drop -- that returns them at the next end step

>>49755435
Cypher is like fixed Ninjutsu. It mitigates the massive cost of bouncing a creature by giving value and if you get in again you get more value. It's just that they didn't print any good cards.

In fact, most mechanics are shit only because they were only around for one or two sets. That and you quickly realize that there aren't a lot of color-specific effects in each color. Red is basically nothing but rummage, shatter, stone rain, burn, threaten, splinter twin, and power pump, and I'm sure a few others I can't remember and don't need to be listed.

>>49754527

You got a slight chance of detain making it into Aether Revolt just because it would not only shut down vehicles but it can also make flavour sense for a Revolt to detain people.

>>49755996
Nah, they've never brought back any of the Ravnica keywords for other sets

>>49754463
Orzhov like a motherfucker, stay mad

>>49756411
Hellbent appeared in future sight
Convoke was in a core set

>>49757122
convoke was also in future sight.

>>49753782
i like y. pyro + counters and clique. it's probably stupid but i just wanna play all the fun cards at once

>>49754305
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