The Hektor Heresy: Inquire Within

>>49717549
>tfw no IRC details in the OP

irc.thisisnotatrueending.com
#HektorHeresy

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>>49717549
>YOU CAN IMAGE

WHAT IMAGES THESE IMAGES BITCHES

These are from /tg/ drawthreads, which fall under Fair Use for us to use at the project(Unless they were posted to DA first or, you know what just google check them to see if they have a CC or not) but you can use them as the basis for your page, oh yes!

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>>49717587

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>>49717599

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So, any ideas for how to fix the Augurs?

Also I guess now that the Storm Bringers are a Successor Chapter I will take them once more.

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>>49717549

Link to old thread >>49688522

>>49717611
Beyond the aging factor for Voidseer? No, but I think that solves so many of their problems.

>>49717578
>How am I struggling to replace the VII? Genuine question. Always looking to do better
You're trying to replace a legion. We've been in an endless cycle of making legions, abandoning them, and replacing them. There has always been at least one legion that was a thorn in our side since before I joined the fun.

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>>49717624
So going with him aging and what I suggested from that? which I will need to find cause I cant remember it off the top of my head.

Also maybe some less Edgelord names?

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>>49717611
>So, any ideas for how to fix the Augurs?

What were the basic ideas behind the Augurs to begin with?

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>>49717637
>lampshading of moustache twirlers
>they can see the future
>the warp destroys you and has a cost

>>49717633
If I was doing it, I would just have Voidseer aging (due to Warp degradation) and see if that solved the problems.

>Edgelord names
In the history of the project, I can't think of a single time that changing the name of a thing helped. I can, however, think of many cases in which name changes accompanied a descent into incoherent blather.

Your call, though.

>>49717637
They are naughty wizards. That may seem too simple, but starting simple and broad is very helpful with Legions.

>>49717665
I think we can keep the names the same, it just seems to see what new people complain the most about.

My suggestion was two breads ago, I'll have to go looking, but it hinges on Void not being Immortal like his Brothers.

>>49717658
By the way I think if you can't summarize your legion in three lines of terse ironic greentext then the concept needs to be tighter.

>>49717682
Also I still think Void should become Nagash and rather than Skaven they need to be Vampire Counts.

And for the fuck of it have a unit based on the Gal Vorbak, but rather than being possessed they infused themselves with harnessed Daemonic Energy.

>>49717682
I think you were talking about having their gene-seed carrying the curse of age. Someone was, anyway. I didn't really care for it.

>>49717704
>Vampire Counts.
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Vetrovnak

>>49717724
I dont like the Vetrovnak. But I wasnt meaning having them as Vampires, just that sort of attitude compared to the Skaven one they have now.

>>49717748
OK. The attitude stuff on their page is OK for how they act after the Legion is thoroughly corrupted, it just needs to not be right there to begin with. If I was to single out a problem with the Augurs right now, it's that the page doesn't spend enough time on the Solar Warriors.

>>49717767
Yeah alittle more focus on them as not Cartoon Villains could help alot.

>>49717748
That'd be a pretty good point to build from and it's not like you have to worry about stepping on toes with the Vetrovnak because they're nothing at all like the VCs in attitude.

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>>49717658
>>49717665
Their current Sacred Band history portrays them as the premier assault squad of the Unification Wars, so why not go with that?

They're heralded as the best close-quarters combat unit, but as the Unification Wars come to a close and the Great Crusade begins they get pushed aside as Primarch after Primarch gets discovered and reunited with their respective Legions.

The discovery of Roman Albrecht ruins the Solar Warriors psychologically as the finest swordsman the Imperium will ever see soon develops his Legion to a commensurate caliber, leaving them with nothing. Even worse, when they finally do re-unite with their own Primarch, they find out that the Voidwatcher doesn't share any of their martial virtues at all.

What the Voidwatcher does share with his sons however, is a desire to restore them to their rightful place as the best warriors in the Imperium. And all they have to do is let him cast a "little spell" on them to get their mojo back.

What remains after the Decimation bears little resemblance to the Solar Warriors that came before, their once pristine, alabaster armor charred black by the psychic energies wrought upon them by the Voidwatcher.

Only the Black Augurs remain.

>>49717908
I feel I should point out after a generalization that I dont like your dudes, is that I dont like how they seem to be completely unstoppable.

Back to the Reformation, as I understand the Traitor situation after the Scouring they kick back and wait for someone else to do the hard work of knocking the Imperium down a peg or two. So the OU Black Crusade of 781 just isn't going to happen.

But that's a good thing, because it means the Vetrovnak's major invasion can take place in the 8th century of M31 - a few hundred years after they started probing the Milky Way, which seems like a short delay for nigh-immortal beings. Before doing more on that, some stage needs to be set. All of the following IMO, JAI, ETC.

The Hektorverse Temple of the Saviour Emperor isn't going to differ radically from the OU's version, at least in its origin and initial expansion. However, once it starts spreading across the stars it'll be running into Marian cults inspired by the life of Maria Vespa. If they were only dealing with one or two, that wouldn't be a problem, but vast reaches of space, especially in the Segmentum Obscurus, venerate the Star of Morning. Despite Maria's martyrdom, her cult is pretty popular in the Imperial Guard assigned to the region and it's not looking like the sort of thing that can just be brushed aside.

I guess at this stage we need personalities. Let's suppose that both of these trans-stellar cults are Organised Religions with heads to their churches. The Temple of the Saviour Emperor is based on Terra under a Cardinal or something, while the Marian faith focuses on Convents and looks to the Abbess Palatine as their spiritual superior.

Enter the Administratum. Yes, things are looking better for the Imperium than they have since the Great Crusade and it's likely that the odd sector has been reclaimed. But a gigantic war between two groups of ridiculous religious fanatics would throw that out altogether. To stop that happening, the Administratum establishes the Adeptus Ecumenes, a secular organ devoted to acting as an honest broker in a dialogue between the faiths.

>>49717941
>I dont like how they seem to be completely unstoppable.
I'm working on how they become completely stoppable.

>>49717941
That's fine.
Also couldn't the same be said of most other factions? Writ large most all of them are unstoppable without heroic sacrifice from the Imperium. So having the Vetrovnak appear as yet another unstoppable force poised to roll over the galaxy works completely in theme with the rest of the antagonist factions in 40k.

Of course they aren't by any means unstoppable but I can see why you'd think that since I've been playing up them up by presenting them only at their best or when they hold all the cards.

>>49717967
Violence is a good way to stop anything. Examples: HH, Beast, all 13 black crusades, Wars on Armageddon, Tyrannic Wars, etc.

On the subject of post-heresy threats not present in the OG, Morkai. If we're for reals going into M31 finally then they could be a thorn in the Imperium's side.

>>49718013
I think what that comes down to is that we are familiar with the 'unstoppable' other factions and have seen them being stopped before. These maybe our special snow flake marines, but they are still Marines.

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Also, FUCKING KOMRA.

>>49718040
True. It is something I need to work on and I'll get to it sooner or later.

For now though I have an appointment with my shower.

>>49717961
Discussion between Templars and Marians is - terse. To a good, Emperor-fearing Templar, Maria Vespa is at best a devout daughter of Big E who boldly fought Chaos and then got a bit silly and was rightly killed by the Astartes, at worst just plain heretical. To the Marians, the Emperor is a great guy but let's be honest he's not the only game in town. By the time that the Vetrovnak invade, the Ecumenes haven't achieved much more than getting the dispute to be more about shouting than bloodshed.

Actually, that's quite an achievement. Good job, Adeptus Ecumenes.

Before we go further, another quick diversion into the substance of these cults and their doctrines on war. The Templars we know pretty well. They venerate the Emperor and trust to the protection of Him and His Avenging Angels. Certainly, a Templar might take up arms in the Emperor's Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy, but the heart of the faith isn't militant. The Marians, on the other hand, venerate a figure who arrived without her own armies and inspired the common people to fight alongside her. Their Convents engage in serious martial training and often act as de facto Imperial Guard recruiting centres. So whereas Guard regiments drawn from the Segmentum Solar have a sprinkling of Templars in their ranks, there are regiments in Obscurus that are Marians from top to bottom.

And when the Space Vampires turn up, these regiments become extremely important. The Vetrovnak have a definite weakness in fighting proper, unenhanced humans - it's against their programming to use lethals means in such encounters. Adding to that, the Terrible Secret of Faith seems to shield the most devout from the Vetrovnak's crowd control arsenal. Now, against a regiment with a few handfuls of devout Templars, that's just a nuisance. But when faced by Marian regiments, it All Goes Terribly Wrong.

And there are Persons of Inquisitive Nature who take notice.

>>49718055
The Adeptus Ecumenes undergoes a minor administrative reshuffle during the Vetrovnak Incursion. (Or, if that's not clear enough, the Inquisition goes in and overhauls it.) Rather than simply trying to broker a compromise between the faiths, the new Ecumenes pushes its own solution: that Maria Vespa be recognised as the First Saint of the Imperium, a powerful ally of the Emperor who arose to aid the Imperium during dark times. They also start work on recruiting the cream of the Marian warrior crop into an elite corps to be unleashed on the Vetrovnak. Yes, faith is a wonderful armour, but why not Power Armour as well? The Inquisition's new project bears fruit and the Sisters of Battle spearhead the Imperial repulse of the Space Vampires.

As an added bonus, I'm thinking that Maria Vespa is executed at the order of Augustin Carron (a Space Marine), so we get the inter-service hostility of the early Sisters of Battle along the way.

>>49718044
Komra are pretty stoppable, though. Or perhaps it's just that they spend a lot of their history getting whipped by other factions.

>>49718116
No, that's not my issue. It's their name.

>>49718124
What's the problem with their name, comrade?

>>49717920
I endorse this.

Bloodseer, check it.

>>49717920
>>49718208
Looks good. So they go from Paladins to Sorcerers?

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>>49718208
>>49718255
Thanks, I will now expand on my reinterpretation of the Black Augurs.

>>49717658
>>lampshading of moustache twirlers

Obviously this means that the Sacred Band of the Solar Warriors are derived from the sires of Frankia's nobility.

Trained in swordplay from birth, the XIVth Sacred Band would distinguish themselves throughout their service in the Unification Wars as the premier assault force among the nascent Legions.

The blue-blood which ran in their veins fully expressed itself in the chauvinistic attitudes with which the Solar Warriors treated their allies and enemies.

Towards the end of the Unification Wars as the Sacred Bands became the "old-boys network" within the new Legions, the original Solar Warriors establish a pseudo-feudal organization within their Legion with themselves as the nobility.

But what the Great Crusade requires from its Astartes is not what the Unification Wars needed from the Sacred Bands, and the Solar Warriors, described by their rivals as a "Legion of duelists," begin to flounder.

As Legion after Legion reunites with their Primarch and grow greater for it, the Solar Warriors are seemingly drowning in their attempts to prove their superiority.

The discovery of Roman Albrecht, sweeps through the Imperium on 831. M30, especially the story of his besting the Emperor in a duel.

This news paralyzes the Solar Warriors, and for five years they slog through world after world like the VIth Legion.

Finally, they are called to muster and present themselves to their newly-discovered Primarch. At first, they think the old man that steps in front of them is merely the gene-sire's herald, after all who ever heard of a mortal Primarch? And this mortal was visibly bowed by age.

The reunion could not have been more akin to a funeral if the Solar Warriors had tried. Utterly disappointed in their father, leadership inevitably cedes over to the Voidwatcher.

(1/2)

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>>49718465
(2/2)

The Voidwatcher's attempts to reform his Legion are met with significant political backlash from the old Sacred Band and their sycophants, who believe that even after all their setbacks, they are still better fit to lead the Legion than some dithering mystic from some backwater, Primarch or not.

Tensions mount within the Legion, and a civil war is only averted by the Voidwatcher's understated diplomatic ability. He offers to restore the Solar Warriors to their rightful place, but only if they allow him to perform a spell on them, with the caveat that if it fails, he will unofficially cede back control to the original members of the Sacred Band.

Having been inculcated with Imperial Truth, the Solar Warriors are confident of their chances, and consent only to allow the Primarch to demonstrate for himself how unfit he is to lead them.

The true nature of the Decimation, as it would come to be called, would never be known as the Remembrancers the Solar Warriors had hidden within their ranks disappeared with a large number of the Astartes. All that is known is that the snow-white armor of the Solar Warriors was charred black by the energies that poured forth from the Voidwatcher, and that the Primarch himself had seemed to grow and swell during the course of the spell, what was entered the now-infamous hall as a bowed old man stepped out as the equal of any Primarch in stature and radiance.

The newly christened Black Augurs marched as one behind their Primarch, numbering only half of what had gone in, and it did not escape the notice of other Legions that were paying a close attention to their brothers that those who marched out with the Voidwatcher were the same Astartes who had marched in with him in allegiance against the now-disappeared Solar Warriors.

This new Legion would proceed to carve its way through the Galaxy at an incredible rate, shocking their brothers into a competitive mania.

>>49718636
I'd argue that not all the old Sacred Band would have stood against him or rather died in the Decimation, because removes the purpose of the Voidwatcher vs Bloodseer duel.

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>>49718255
So instead of sorcerers, the Black Augurs are now haughty French duelists who use their psykery like steroids. Individual combat prowess and exceptionalism are the hallmarks of their combat doctrine, like a fusion between the Emperor's Children and the Dark Angels, and they are organized like a self-contained monarchy with the Voidwatcher as king.

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>>49718668
Sure thing, easy fix. They can function as the noble class between the Voidwatcher and the rest of the Legion. What do you think?

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>>49718690
I like that fusion.
>>49718709
To go more with the Dark Angels theme they could form the Inner Circle or the Court of the Voidwatcher.

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>>49718722
Great! I'm really glad you like it. Now if you'll excuse me, it's currently 3:10 a.m. where I am and I must pass out now. See ya'll later today. Much later.

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Oh I created a page for the Storm Bringers of the wiki. Nothing there really right now, just there for when I slowly start piecing the Chapter together.

>>49718766
Have a good one.

I too will be heading off.

>>49717961
We'll likely need a few other cults to go along with them as well as how the Mechanicus feels about the Adeptus Ecumenes since their faiths would ostensibly take part in the whole dialogue process.

>>49718690
That fusion is pretty cool and fairly distinct.

>>49718796
Sure. The Confederation of Light (or equivalent) would probably get treated more kindly in the AU and coming up with small-h heresies is usually good fun.

I'm not 100% on the interaction between the tech priests and the Ecumenes, though. I guess Mars would have a representative but stand somewhat apart from the councils, as they're not really prepared to give up their traditions?

>>49718822
Well techpriests that belong to minor cults might see the Ecumenes as a chance to get their more orthodox brothers of their back.

>>49718847
That's a good point. They'd probably have separate councils for Imperial Cult and Machine Cult problems. Which is great, because it lets us do two different trajectories of secular authority interfering in religious affairs.

OK, here's a start on the alternate origin story for the Sisters of Battle:

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Maria_Vespa

Hopefully this will please people who want the sons of Lumey to engage in a bit of religious persecution.

>>49717637

Think Skaven, but as Space Marines.

>>49717961
>>49718055
>>49718105

And what happens to the Imperial Truth in all this? Does it just give up the ghost and let Religion take over? Does it let these people use the Emperor's name to go against the Emperor's teachings of rationality and truth and preach the false idea that the Emperor was a God when he specifically said he wasn't and spoke out against false faith?

>>49719657
Can I get away with saying, "It's just like in the OU"?

Probably not, as GW doesn't really answer your questions. I think it's a matter of the Imperial commanders picking their battles and choosing to secure the borders, rebuild Sol, etc. rather than worrying about the mumbling of superstitious types.

>>49719691

The OU doesn't care to point out. Basically as far as it's known the Imperial Truth just up and vanished one day and worship of the Emperor replaced it. Which is untrue and wouldn't happen.

More likely after the Imperial Cult has taken root those who espouse the Imperial Truth would bitterly decry it and fight a long and painful rearguard until by M41 only a few die-hard holdouts would be left like Ciban.

>>49719657
When I suggested the idea of the Adeptus Ecumenes in IRC it was specifically to find a way create a conciliatory compromise of a solution to that very problem. If they were to go around stamping out every outcropping of everything remotely religious it'd end up buring the Imperium to the ground in a never ending mole hunt.

The pragmatic thing to do is to try to control this growing religious sentiment through approved avenues and create a method for the approved "benign faiths" to reconcile their differences so they don't resort to killing each other or festering underground and turning to malignant.

So the Adeptus Ecumenes gets to slap a gold sticker of "not harmful at the moment" on faiths so the military can spend its precious time and resources rebuilding everything. As the centuries roll on the Adeptus Ecumenes becomes less secular watchdog and more interfaith mediator as the inmates inevitably come to run the asylum as it were.

It's like the Imperial Truth lives a hell of a lot longer in this AU thanks to the Adeptus Ecumenes protecting it but it will still be marginalized or be forced to adopt a facade of religiosity or ritual to avoid complete persecution.

>>49717586
#/tg/ Heresy

>>49719898
Preeetty sure we were using #hektorheresy

If I want to pitch a potential Loyalist Chapter all I gotta do is to follow the template from 1d4chan right (and read all the other stuff)

>>49720086

Go ahead. Though you might want to pick one of the more established Loyalist Legions (i.e one that isn't going to change radically any time soon) before you start.

>>49719919
I archived it. I would know.

also, when the threads started getting used, I didn't find a whole lot when I searched there for #hektorheresy, but I did find a few under #/tg/ heresy

>>49720130
Oh, I thought you were referring to the IRC channel.

>>49719830
This is actually fairly in line with my and Uriel's thoughts on the subject.

>>49720155
oh, I saw suptg.thisisnotatrueending and immediately thought archives. Sorry, just got up and the sleep I got was less than restful.

>>49720173
Nah it's fine.

>>49720161
Regarding earlier ideas about the coexistance of faith along the Imperial Truth I could see some people viewing the Emperor denying his divinity as being a sign of humility (regardless of the truth on the matter).

>>49719424
I don't think this was a "people want to see Lumey do this" as much as it was "we thought this was the case, didn't you say this was the case? we could swear you said something about it."

>>49720196
Yeah, I agree. the idea myself and Uriel had was a result of a more extremist cult trying to kill the Emperor because he needed to be freed into the warp, therefore completing his sacrifice to mankind and making everything better, so the HLOT had something like the IRL Council of Nicaea to create a uniform religion and get the beast they couldn't beat under their own control.

>>49720086
You don't have to read all the other stuff - but it helps. My advice:

1. Skim the Loyalist Legions looking for a gene-sire. If you find a Legion that seems like a good fit, read up a bit more about them.
2. Get a general idea formulated and post it to a thread for feedback.
3. Apply feedback, create a more finished version.

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>>49720095
>>49720488
Alright here we go,

>Chapter Sigma

>The Chapter Sigma are a codex-compliant (unofficial) First Founding Chapter. Formed from a warband of loyalist blackshields during the heresy, the warriors of Sigma Chapter would pledge their alleigance to Gaspard Lumey and the Imperium, reforming themselves to fit the Institutorum Astartes.
Uniquely the Chapter Sigma also strictly follow another piece of combat doctrine, referred to as the Codex Mathematika, or simply the Mathematika. Treated with suspicion by many due to their presumed traitorous origins, Sigma Chapter continues to fight on in the name of the Imperium.

>Chapter History
The origins of the Sigma Chapter are muddled in the chaos of the Heresy. Originally operating as a nameless warband under the command of Warsmith Napha Sigma, the Sigma Chapter took part in isolated campaigns throughout the galaxy against the traitorous forces. Much of the work done by the Sigma Chapter is now lost to time, battles over nameless star systems and planets which ultimately amounted to minor skirmishes in the grand scheme of the war.
Nevertheless, the entirety of Napha Sigma's warband stood in defence of Terra during the Siege. Vastly outnumbered and outgunned, almost two-thirds of the warband met their deaths at the Eternity Wall, including Napha Sigma himself, eviscerated by a Lord of Change. The survivors were forced back within the Ultimate Gate, expecting to meet their ultimate end as well, however they would endure, as the psychic scream of the Warmaster ended the Siege of Terra.
During the Imperial Reformation, the warband was recognised for their sacrifice and efforts during the Siege of Terra and granted permission to become a full chapter.

>>49720614
>Notable Members
>Warsmith Napha Sigma
A quiet and reserved tactician, Napha Sigma led his force of blackshields during the heresy and penned the Codex Mathematika, a distilling of combat behaviour into a quantifiable number. Slain by the Lord of Change Sa'loxir'ath during the Siege of Terra, the Sigma Chapter have worked tirelessly to banish this Lord of Change whenever it returns.

>Chapter Master Quan
The current chapter master, Quan is a veteran of numerous battles against the enemies of the Imperium. Once considered brash and unreliable over 2 centuries ago, Quan has had his fiery temperment tempered by the crucible of war. Unique amongst the chapter masters of the Chapter Sigma, Chapter Master Quan only has one censure band remaining, a reminder to him that he cannot tolerate even one failure.

>>49720621
>Chapter Combat Doctrine
The Chapter Sigma closely follow the guidelines of the Codex Mathematika during combat operations, which assigns value to all facets of combat, including damage to enemies, harm to self and collateral damage. Each Space Marine has been extensively trained to maximise the sigma value of these combat calculations, to acheive the greatest possible effect with the least effort.
This has led to backlash against their tactics when they allow enemies to retreat because the cost of total annihilation was too great, or when they let civilians die in order to assassinate an important target.
The chapter has a great amount of flexibility, with captains serving as the first of equals, and the chapter master considered as the first of firsts. Ordinary marines are encouraged to counteract their commanders if they have judged them to have made a miscalculation, due to the flexible and subjective nature of the Codex Mathematika.
Apparently due to a quirk in their geneseed, many psychically-gifted aspirants either perish during the implantation procedure or see their gifts diminished to the point of uselessness. As such, librarians are highly valued amongst the Sigma Chapter, totalling between 2 to 5 usually. As such, the chapters librarians are highly prized and tend to serve support roles, far way from the heat of combat. The value placed on the librarians is extremely high, with entire companies willing to sacrifice themselves for a single librarian. Due to those dangers, the chapter rarely confronts the forces of chaos which would threaten their librarians, except in the case of the accursed Sa'loxir'ath.

>>49720633
>Chapter Beliefs
The Chapter Sigma are heavily influenced by the Codex Mathematika, which prioritises the maximisation of success. They employ a unique form of punishment, in the form of censure bands. Following 10 years of service in Chapter Sigma, a marine is judged to have sufficient experience to make appropiate judgements, and will receive three censure bands. Should the marine make a grevious mistake which threatens the safety of his brothers, his chapter or the Codex, he will be stripped of one band. Once a marine loses all of their bands, they are punished in an ultimate, irreversible way, the removal of their chest Progenoid. This is considered the ultimate shame by members of the Sigma Chapter and the third-censured will usually join a Censure Company, where they undertake risky missions that may result in the total loss of gene-seed of their other uncensured brothers.
The Chapter Sigma also greatly despises the hero worship of specific marines. Upon death, the deeds of each space marine is added anonymously to the Hall of Deeds aboard the flagship Sum Infinite, a chronicle of the sum of successes and failures of the chapter.
Only the chapter master and head chaplain are privy to the greatest secret of the chapter, the last page of the Codex Mathematika which contains the identity of their true primarch. As such, the two are rarely seen together, for if both were to fall without the chance to pass on their knowledge, the chapter would lose the most important part of their history forever.

>Chapter Homeworld
The Chapter Sigma are a fleet-based chapter, operating primarily from their flagship Sum Infinite. They have no fixed base of operations, preferring to travel wherever they feel that they are needed.

>>49720614
I could see that happening. The Eyes of the Emperor are taking the same kind of path from disconnected small actions to the Siege of Terra on Legion scale. Perhaps Chapter Sigma has some ties to the sons of the Vardhana?

Nit-picking stuff:
They're probably Second Founding, in that they would have been acknowledged as a proper Chapter along with the other Chapters that came out of the original Legions. (In the OU, that would be Chapters like the Black Templars, while the First Founding is the Imperial Fists.)
The Lord of Change needs a name.

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>>49720728
Thanks.

So we have a Second Founding Chapter, the original idea was to have them from a traitor legion (was thinking XIII, Napha Sigma being all srs mathematics would have set himself apart from the jokers). Lord of Change that kills Napha Sigma is Sa'loxir'ath, from >>49720621

This is what I've imagined the chapter logo to be, a simple circle that (almost) sums up.

>>49720924
So are these guys blackshields?

>>49720924
I like your logo.

One thing to keep in mind though, Loyalist chapters from Traitor Legions/geneseed is definitely in the top 5 "Don't Ever Do This" things as far as fanfic goes.

I've seen people propose such things for the OU Legions here on /tg/ and elsewhere a hundred times, and it rarely goes well. It's simply not necessary to be Loyal Traitors, and always sets you apart as someone who's trying too hard to be special.

I'm not going to say it's impossible, but this is a road that many other people have trod before, to their peril. Just be very honest with yourself regarding whether or not that idea truly benefits your narrative.

>>49721206
IIRC, Fundamentalist Guardsman tried something similar.

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>>49718135
Komra
Okmra
Mokra
Rmoka
Armok

Like... What? Really? Why not just squats?

>>49719424
>Saint of the Adepta Sororitas
>Psyker
Nooooooooooo.

>Resurrection
Uh, Maria was the mother of Jesus, not Jesus himself.

>>49721127
Yep, blackshields that kinda popped up during the chaos of the heresy

>>49721206
I see, we'll stick to nobody knows but the select few then

>>49721331
Keep in mind that Loyalist Chapters still have to tithe their gene-seed to Mars.

There are many secrets that Chapters and the ravages of time can keep. Being descended from Traitors unfortunately isn't one of them, unless you assume a large, high level, fairly implausible conspiracy.

And that always makes a writer's story sound forced/Deus Ex Machina, you know? I'd hate to see you start from such a difficult position.
The other alternative is the "Redemption in Death" storyline that always plays well into the 40k universe.

It's entirely possible to have a small group of Loyalist Traitors bail out of their Legion, so long as you respect the setting's narrative and have them die out fairly quickly. Don't extend their timeline all the way from 30k to 40k, have them simply refuse to recruit new Marines, and whenever their natural end comes, they meet it honorably and with courage, in service to the Emperor.

"The sins of the fathers shall not be passed on".

That would be a decent option for you, should you find it entertaining.

>>49721311
>Why not just squats?
Because I can't see a people self-identifying as "squats". It would be like calling the space elf faction "Knife-ears".

>Nooooooooooo
In the OU, the Sisters of Battle venerate a powerful psychic being known as the Emperor of Mankind.
In the AU, the Sisters of Battle venerate a powerful psychic being known as Maria Vespa.

What's the problem?

>Maria was the mother of Jesus
Maria Vespa doesn't have any children. You're thinking of someone else.

>>49721331
First off, this: >>49721359

There are Chapters which may or may not be descended from traitor stock in 40k of the OU, I think this could potentially be a bit of fun with a Chapter, as long as you leave it to hints and clues within the writing of their origins.

However, that is also after 26 foundings, where the HLOT and/or Inquisition might be more tempted to say "well, we do need X skill set not currently employed by our Astartes forces. Let's run these guys as an experiment under close Inquisitorial observation and see if they can work this time."

>>49721518
>Knife-ears
How about Keebs?

>veneration of saint X
How about we keep it as veneration of the Emperor with the saint in question being their ideal? Like monks of the order of St. Francis, or nuns of...

Do nuns follow specific monastic orders?

>>49720924
>the original idea was to have them from a traitor legion (was thinking XIII,
You could get away with that if Shakya Vardhana claimed them as his own and don't explicitly state their actual heritage. (Just say that they were Blackshields who aligned with the Eyes of the Emperor and that the Primarch said that they were as much his sons as any other warrior who had fought for him, or something like that.)

This gives them an authoritative sponsorship to stop meddling early on, though their actual paternity could become important later in the story. As a bonus, you don't need an explicit reason for the Vardhana to have claimed the Chapter Sigma, just that "fate required it".

>>49721359
Well I figured it was not a secret thing to Mars, kinda a 'well most of you died to save Terra so we're all square' deal.

What's dangerously heretical is that they still respect their mystery primarch

>>49721331
>>49721551
Shit, my bad, forgot to get to my point on that:

If this is going on during and immediately after the Heresy, I don't see that as a possibility, especially with the number of traitor legions that didn't really have to cut their numbers down.

Don't forget, suspicion is everywhere, and Lumey and the HLOT are just trying to stick the Imperium back together with spit, gum, and duct tape. Having an entire chapter of guys who represent the astartes that literally just tore the Imperium in half so hard it took decades to fix might not be so welcome an idea.

>>49721518
>Because I can't see a people self-identifying as "squats"
40K is the answer to all your problems.

>>49721518
>In the OU, the Sisters of Battle venerate a powerful psychic being known as the Emperor of Mankind.
>In the AU, the Sisters of Battle venerate a powerful psychic being known as Maria Vespa.
They think he's a god.

Wait, so they don't venerate the Emperor?

>>49721551
>Keebs
Sure. Let's rename the Eldar as "Keebs".

>How about we keep it as veneration of the Emperor with the saint in question being their ideal?
I suspect that I didn't express the thought properly. My pitch for Marianism is that Maria Vespa is regarded as inferior to the Emperor but greater than all of the other Saints and other jibber-jabber of the Imperial Cult. The Sisters of Battle would regard her as their special patron, but still see the Emperor as the God of mankind.

>>49721567
Oh second thought, it would be easier story-wise if nobody knows who the fuck they came from, only that Vardhana took them on as allies

>>49721592
>They think he's a god
They think she's a saint.

Really not seeing your objection.

>so they don't venerate the Emperor?
They do venerate the Emperor, see >>49721600.

>>49721600
Okay, so essentially keeping her as the matriarch of the monastic order type dealio.

Also, Shadowrun makes an appearance in our list of references within the project!

>>49721607
Uh... I think this is letting the idea backslide a bit. Because as of the Heresy, especially during the Siege, they know who all the Legions are, and who belongs to who, so this idea implies that either they are Loyalists who have been unaccounted for (which, at this time ALL the loyalists are accounted for, because they need them desperately), traitors who are unaccounted for (which is kinda important for the Imperium to know where and who their enemies are), or worst case scenario, just shy of outright calling them a fragment of a Lost Legion.

Let me be clear:
I like the idea of Blackshields, and I would like some Knights Errant or something similar to the OU to help kickstart the =][=, but I think having an entire Chapter show up out of the blue to do it might not be the greatest way to go.

>>49721655
A unit of Blackshields might be Marines who had gone mad when Tiran died or Acharya who returned to the fold late. If the Vardhana was to say that they're his men, it's unlikely that he would be directly questioned.

>>49721695
I'd have thought Lumey would take the time to really question something like that. I mean, it's rather suspicious for another primarch to show up with an entire extra chapter. He might not question Vardhana, but I'd have thought he would keep a close eye on them.

>>49721749
Adding one chapter won't take the Vardhana one over for the Siege of Terra, and by the time Gaspard gets there, the Eyes will be well under establishment strength.

>>49721655
>Okay, so essentially keeping her as the matriarch of the monastic order type dealio.
Basically. They gotta jump through some hoops to arrive there, but Maria Vespa will be just a little bit more significant than Alicia Dominica. My notes are up at:

>>49717961
>>49718055
>>49718105

Some of that repeats what's in long-hand on the Maria Vespa page, so if there seems to be a contradiction the page represents my more considered thoughts on the matter. (Although like anything on the wiki I will change it if problems are pointed out.)

>>49721655
Alright, I'm gonna parse through the Heresy article to see where I can stuff the Sigmas. The main idea behind them is that back then it was pretty obvious that they were from a traitor legion but were loyalist, kinda Dantioch style.

After the heresy Mars gets together, checks that they're clean, honours their sacrifice by letting them live, with some minor adjustments to their geneseed so that they won't have the psykers to do dodgy warp stuff *hint hint wink wink*

Over the years people have kinda forgotten about them and just assume that they are from some loyalist stock, especially since they tend to be loners whose main defining trait is that they really really hate this particular Lord of Change

>>49721852
>I'm gonna parse through the Heresy article
It's not really worth your time, sorry. There are issues with the Traitor Legions that prevent the Heresy from being mapped out in detail at this stage.

>>49721846
Alright, thanks for absolutely clearing everything up.

>>49721793
>>49721852
Well, there's this: >>49721872
And it's got Lumey and a few other approvals. I like the idea, I just have a bit of an issue with implementation. Given, there's a lot of stuff that one or two people don't agree with that stick. It's a group project, so that happens.

That being said, Lumey's assessment does take care of a good chunk of my issues, and I could be completely behind it with a bit more nerfing. Maybe the idea presented earlier about the Chapter not continuing their gene seed or something similar. But, again, this is so far just me. Other people might weigh in either for or against. Don't worry about pleasing my palette.

>>49721934
Well given that they are supposed to be a pragmatist chapter, it could be that any new geneseed is derived from another Loyalist legion, probably the Eyes since they got disbanded.

That could be the reason why the punishment for failure amongst the Sigmas is premature removal of Progenoids, a callback to the price they paid to continue on.

>>49721989
By pragmatist chapter I mean that they don't care where their geneseed comes from as long as it lets them serve effectively. Though other legions may not be happy to give them geneseed.

My original idea had them also have a reputation as sort of lapdogs of the Inquisition, semi-permanently seconding two companies for the works of the Inquisition in exchange for the Inquisition not poking too far into their past.

>>49721989
>Eyes disbanded
People are desperate to undo that and want the Lost Legions to fill the Chamber Militant instead, so there might be bona fide Eyes of the Emperor successors. But that wouldn't really interfere with what you're suggesting. (For example, the Sigmas could be given the gene-seed of Acharya so that those genetic lines could be taught the humility that their sires had lacked.)

>>49722028
Right, so for the new lore, how does this sound

>The warband meets Verdhana while conducting operations against traitors
>Verdhana speaks with Warsmith Sigma, is convinced of their loyalty and takes them along for the ride, calls them his honorary sons
>Siege of Terra, most of the warband gets wiped out including Sigma who faces a Lord of Change (Sa'loxir'ath) who threatens to reveal their true legion
>After siege, warband is basically kept confined while they are examined for purity and heresy. Lumey gives them the thumbs-up to become a chapter, with the condition that they follow his codex absolutely and that any new marines come from loyalist genestock
>Following the Codex Mathematika penned by Warsmith Sigma before his death, his warriors decide that the loss of their genetic legacy is worth the opportunity to continue the fight for humanity
>The symbolic removal of all their Progenoids following the foundation of Chapter Sigma remains today as a punishment for severe failure
>Even today they remain under suspicion from the Inquisition, but nothing untoward has been discovered except for the possibility that their genestock has been modified to prevent them from having psykers

>>49722028
Actually, thought of something during math. Does Lumey arrive before or after the traitors breach the gates of the Throne? Because that is how we've got the Justicars revealing themselves, by holding the line at the doors so that the loyalists can retreat, then keeping the gates open while doing an about-face and opening fire when the traitors get there.

>>49722371
Disregard, that doesn't matter, because Verdhana would have already seen these guys were loyal in the future and would stick up for them.

Then again, if they were traitors, but it was fate, he wouldn't do anything to change it.

Fuck, I hate 4-dimensional characters.

So, Im thinking of the Storm Bringers chapter and what their rules might be like. What does everyone think of them having a rule like the old True Grit rule as part of their Chapter Tactics?

And then for a formation or Decurion rule have them able to make a disordered charge after Rapid Firing?

>>49717549
Yo Alex, I got a couple things for ya.

1 edited/updated planet, and 2 new ones.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Kuzgeta_Defense_Sphere#Worlds

I need you to assign them a Segmentum though, and of course you can change the names and such to your tastes. I also didn't assign any planetary images, I thought it best to leave that to your judgement.

Lemme know what you think.

>>49718690
I think the change is overall good, but I think being kinda haughty and old world puts them too close to the Lions Rampant.

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>>49724945
I've just read over the Lions Rampant page, and nothing there indicates them as being haughty or "old world."

>>49725002
Didn't they start as literally haughty englishmen on bikes or something?

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>>49724945
>>49725002
And besides, the posts above are only an idea of a reinterpretation of the Black Augurs, nothing there is set in stone.

Bloodseer, as the Legion's main writefag, is the one who actually decides anything about them.

>>49725026
I think they were "haughty" in the sense that "They are Englishmen". I don't know if it went much farther than leaning on that trope.

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>>49725026
Uhhhh, maybe they were, once upon a time. But know they don't seem to be so you'll have to ask their writefag.

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>>49725046
>>49725059
Shit, I should probably re-read the wiki and not bank on my knowledge of the project that's almost a year and a half old.

Also, just a thought, the whole change from Righteous Paladins to self-Absorbed Sorcerers reminds me of Thurim from Requiem Chevalier Vampire. The bit where he finds the hammer specifically reminds me of the new decimation.

>>49724050
I believe you wanted rules for EZ?

The EZ are a mash-up between Black Templars and White Scars [Sans Bikes].

Proto-Chaplains lead initiates on trials by fire and focus their zealotry driven brothers.
Covering fire is often given via air-support, often after escorting flying transports.

In concept, "Get to the front, smash them, go over the top and cause mayhem."
Otherwise, Break Morale by going after champions and commanding officers.

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>>49722028
Strategos, you are the main writefag for the Eyes of the Emperor, yes?

If so, I was wondering if there was an equivalent to the "Untouchable" caste within the Legion as well.

Specifically, this line really interested me: "the Legion's medicae carefully inspected the gene-seed of a fallen Brother to determine whether the warrior's life had purified or debased the material and destined his successor for another caste."

I wondered about what would happen to a Neophyte if the gene-seed he receives belongs to a Legionnaire who already belonged to the bottom class, but then debased it even further. Would the Neophyte be assigned to a Punishment Battalion or an equivalent?

Many of the OU Legions had proscriptions against the use of large amounts of Destroyer, Seeker, and Moritat units. Would the Eyes of the Emperor's have an "Untouchable" caste exclusively made up of such "dishonorable" units?

>>49725180
Based on the opinion I derived from a quick skim of the Zealots' Organisation and Doctrine section, I would've thought the EZ's rules would be more a mix of Night Lords and Sons of Horus, what with their Fear tactics and Command Decapitation strategy.

>>49725180
In regards to what i posted earlier i was more thinking of Second Founding Chapter tactics.

But i like the look of that for the EZ

>>49725290
Most custom legions are just "they do everything because they're cool and I made them"

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>>49724844
>>49724852

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>>49725379
No one must know

>>49725290
Looking at it i like that more for the EZ

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>>49725520

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>>49724816
>Lemme know what you think.

I think you should writefag for more than just planets.

>>49725601
Meaning what, exactly?

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>>49725665
I want YOU to WRITEFAG for LEGION(S)!

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>>49725756
*If you aren't already.

>>49725355
Golgy, don't make me go upside your head.

>>49725290
I never got Sons of Horus, their tip of the spear stuff.
I get the concept but I don't know how they go about it.
But I agree, maybe it's better explained that way.

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>>49725950
>I never got Sons of Horus, their tip of the spear stuff.

The Sons of Horus' combat doctrine largely revolves the idea of "going for the throat" or "cutting off the head" of the enemy force, that being, a strategy of killing off the enemy leadership as completely and rapidly as possible.

>I get the concept but I don't know how they go about it.

A strategy that prioritizes the engagement and destruction of the opposing force's command elements over everything else, and tactics shaped to target and kill the line officers of their enemies.

At least, that's how I understood it.

>>49725756

Well, I did write the War Scribes, though they've had significant edits from Lumey about 5 or 6 months ago, if that counts.

>>49726066
I meant in physicality, the way I imagine Zealots going about it is a combination of assault marines and air-support, making them more effective Shock troops.

Then following up the decapitation with a hammer blow.

>>49726170

Air support has never been given any mention, mainly because it can't be relied upon. What if the air support is grounded for whatever reason? Is the Legion unable to advance then? It should be able to fight regardless of atmospheric conditions.

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>>49726079
>Well, I did write the War Scribes, though they've had significant edits from Lumey about 5 or 6 months ago, if that counts.

So you are the primary writefag of the War Scribes? Cool, I will look them over and give you my unsolicited opinion.

>>49726243
Yes I am (Been here since thread 1, lol), and yes, that's fine. I will warn you though, they are and have been and will be in a state of flux. What is true now is likely to be modified tomorrow.

>>49726170
>I meant in physicality, the way I imagine Zealots going about it is a combination of assault marines and air-support, making them more effective Shock troops.

>Then following up the decapitation with a hammer blow.

Same difference with the SoH, honestly. Though they relied more on mechanized Tactical and Despoiler Squads to do the job.

>>49726282
>>49726199
Rhinos and Drop-pods, that's all I can say, it goes without saying that legions are expected to have some tactical flexibility.

>>49726378

Rhinos, Drop Pods, Thunderhawks, Stormbirds, Storm Eagles and Fire Raptors, all are merely a means to an end. The end being getting a Zealot force within bolter and blade range of the enemy command elements.

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So... You know how I said I was stepping out of the /tg/ heresy lore for a bit? I lied. I got bored and started writing the Four Horsemen by way of four fallen Knights, one for each chaos god.

Once I've got a rough done, I'll post more details.


Pic somewhat unrelated.

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I am now officially a name-fag, yay.

>>49726275
Do you still remember the initial ideas of what you wanted the War Scribes to be? The more recent portion of their edit history is by "Lumey," who hasn't shown up on the threads
so far.

>>49726552

They were the Technology Legion. Archeotech, overwhelming firepower, a massive navy. How that translates to battlefield doctrine is a mystery though, you might have some thoughts there.

>>49726552
Nope, Lumey's been with us and commenting for a few threads now.

>>49726542
Any main theming or just some generic knights to fill out the roster a bit?

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>>49726542

I'm interested.

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>>49726604
The idea is to stick to the original (earlier edition) chaos god's lore. Back when Khorne wasn't just "murder the women and children too," he was honor and martial pride. Back when Tzeench was also hope and change, back when Nurgle was also acceptance and peace, back when Slaanesh was passion and inspiration and pride. In the modern lore, Papa Nurgle is the only one who's held on to his good sides, and even then only just.

The idea behind the Four is to have four firmly chaotic knights who nonetheless hold true to ALL the ideals of the chaos gods, not just the easy ones. Sort of legendary figures for the chaos side.

Their working titles are:
>The Reaver (Khorne)
>The Reaper (Nurgle)
>The Reader (Tzeench)
>The Raper (Slaanesh)

Obviously, none of them will keep those names.

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>>49726697

Hopefully the Raper would get a new name. Unless he's supposed to be this guy.

BOOMSHAKALAKA IT'S DANGALANG TIME

>>49726552
Lumey is Strategos.
>>49726542
Welcome back.

>>49726552
I remember them, more or less, but they were always rather fragmented. Once upon a time the Legion basically went head to head with the Admech directly in open warfare, and Arelex died at their hands.

At one point, the Scribes were basically the AirCav Legion. And before that I tried a Napoleonic Warfare slant. Before that was "Archaeotech Everything, Everywhere".

None of it quite worked like I'd hoped.

>>49726697
>Old god ideas
This has been discussed. At length. I think the compromise we came up with is that they are beyond our understanding, and so there are those that uphold the old ideas and those who go with the new shit.

>>49726808

The Legion needs a good centre. A specific style of Warfare that fits them best. Maybe the new guy can think of one.

Really, I'd like the new guy to look at all the Legions and how they make war and see where our weak points lie so they can be fixed.

I'm putting a horrible burden on him aren't it?

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>>49726570
>They were the Technology Legion.

Sadly, this is no longer tenable. Multiple Legions are already described as having outsized stores of equipment and Dark Age of (Technology*2), as well as regularly fielding Terminator formations. Furthermore, some Legions boast inexplicably close ties to the Mechanicus and the Forge Worlds, and so are granted either prototype equipment or custom-made, Legion-specific wargear.

>>49726808
AirCav is now the realm of the VIIth Legion so that's a no-go.

Can you expand on the Napoleonic Warfare slant?

>>49726858
>The Legion needs a good centre. A specific style of Warfare that fits them best. Maybe the new guy can think of one.

I had an awful idea about Necron/Mordian- inspired Space Marines once if you think you can stomach the thought.

>Really, I'd like the new guy to look at all the Legions and how they make war and see where our weak points lie so they can be fixed.

I can do this, in time. But any changes to the content are made only by the Legion's writefag.

>I'm putting a horrible burden on him aren't it?

Nope, not really. If I considered it a burden at all I simply wouldn't be here.

>>49727035
>Can you expand on the Napoleonic Warfare slant?
They were just super polite while they killed you.

>>49727035
>no longer tenable

How so? Plenty of legions in the OU have all that shit, but the Iron Hands are repeatedly referred to as the ones with the best tech.

>>49727035

I'm glad to hear that. You're the first to really have a good knowledge of the technical side of things, how Legions make war and so forth. Something that in my mind has been sadly lacking for a while among most of the Legions. Problem is that so many Legions seem to either have a very narrow style of warfare or two or more Legions share the same style. That needs to be sorted out.

>>49726858
>The Legion needs a good centre.
They have one, though. The War Scribes are a giant hive gang painted up in rosy colours. That conception guides everything about them, from the emphasis on small unit tactics to the Primarch's fetish for large-huge warships to their theft and hoarding of fancy technology. Even the pedantic accounting by the tops is derived from that source.

This isn't a very glorious concept, nor is it necessarily what Arelex-anon had in mind. However, it was how I managed to anchor the various elements that were on the theme when I started editing it down.

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>>49726858
>I'd like the new guy to look at all the Legions and how they make war and see where our weak points lie so they can be fixed.

...

>>49727106
I know, the "we don't know what we're doing" meme has to die.

>>49727106

Do you think there isn't a problem there? Because I think there is. We have Legions with very vague styles of warfare, or even no style at all like the War Scribes.

>>49727094

Which is the exact same thing as the Entombed. They are experts in Zone Mortalis Combat, which is Hive Warfare (Among other things). Again, two Legions doing the exact same thing.

>>49727126
So, if you think that, why are you asking someone else to go through and identify problems? This seems (at best) lazy.

>>49727143
>The Entombed are gangsters
I've never thought so, but perhaps other people would see it differently.

>>49727181

Because I'm obviously not qualified. Better to get someone who is.

>>49727113
>>49727126
100% of all people on earth don't know what they're doing. We're all just retarded monkies who learned to talk. That's why we have other people to give us feedback and perspective. I for one welcome our new anon critic.

>>49727143
I've actually always seen the War Scribes and Entombed as foils to each other. They take very similar concepts and run with them in VERY different directions. They remind me of me and my brother: extremely similar at face value but once you get to know us we are very, very different. There's even an old idea that Golgothos hates Aralex he refuses to admit he even exists, and when they fight on battlefields together he manages his strategies as if they weren't there, leading to artillery landing on the war scribes and shit because according to the Entombed's strategic maps there isn't anybody there.

>>49726858
Which new guy are you talking about? We've picked up a few.

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>>49727055
>They were just super polite while they killed you.

That feels more Eyes of the Emperor to me, so that's a no-go as well.

>>49727065
The OU Legions did not have multiple Legions capable of fielding Dark Age of Technology*2, that was largely the Dark Angels, and only because they were the 1'st Legion. Terminators were also firstly supplied to the Legions that were the most vocal supporters of their development. Likewise, Horus, as the Warmaster, specially cultivated ties to the Mechanicus and the Forge Worlds to make sure that the future-Traitor Legions would have the best gear.

The Iron Hands had the best tech because their Primarch placed the most emphasis on it out of all the Legions, and also cultivated ties with the Mechanicus to provide his Legion with that tech.

It's not the same.

>>49727250

The Foils are usually supposed to be op opposite sides. See Raven Guard and Alpha Legion (Sneaky Operators), Imperial Fists and Iron Warrors (Siege Specialists), or Space Wolves and World Eaters (Ferocious Melee Fighters).

>>49727283

The First Legion here doesn't have any of the Terran Archeotech. They have lots of infantry and Artillery instead.

>>49727283
Off the top of my head, the Raven Guard also have their access to idiosyncratic technology and we have yet to see the full panoply of the 30k Legions. In any case, the Legions do need to have ties to Forge Worlds even if they're just receiving Power Armour and Bolt weapons from them.

>>49727304
That's wrong.

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>>49727304

>As their warriors set off into the Solar System, the Wolves of Dawn fought with Terran-manufactured weapons and armour, often ancient relics from the bitter wars of the Age of Strife. The Emperor would later command some of these items be surrendered to the Tech Priests and mass-produced for the Legions as a whole, but some of the First Legion's arsenal was simply too idiosyncratic or impractical for such methods. Thus, when the Heresy began, the Heralds of Hektor had a great many technological surprises to spring on their Loyalist brothers.

I consider this Terran Archeotech.

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>>49727290
>opposite sides
Well yeah. They're both high-tech heavy infantry specialists. One hates the mechanicum, and one loves it. One believes in progress, the other has a romanticized view of the past. One is rational, the other is spiritual.

If that dynamic isn't fleshed out or apparent enough then maybe we can work on it. If that's not the kind of dynamic people like or had in mind, then maybe the War Scribes should indeed have re-clarified combat doctrines.

>>49727348

So the Heralds have Molecular Acid-Bolts and Grav Land Raiders and Portcullis Mobile Void Shield Generators and Stasis Rockets?

>>49727290
Not to mention the Dark Angels and Space Wolves.

Oh.

>>49727397
Space Wolves (Furious melee, actual fucking sorcerers, teamwork)

Thousands Sons (Midranged warfare, actual fucking sorcerers, teamwork).

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>>49727397
>>49727413
The Space Wolves are a foil to everyone that's literally their thing.

>>49727413
The Lion and the Wolf is one of the oldest rivalries in 40k lore. Are you the same anon who claimed that they weren't qualified to judge things?

>>49727445
Why does he have Frostmourn?

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>>49727374
You would be better answered by their writefag.

>>49727462
>The Lion and the Wolf is one of the oldest rivalries in 40k lore.
I know. I was just pointing out that the Space Wolves do actually have a traitor side foil. A foil that in many ways equates to them more closely than do the Dark Angels.

>Are you the same anon who claimed that they weren't qualified to judge things?
No.

>>49727469

You mean Balenight.

>>49727469
a better question is, why is Lemon Ruse, a fucking primarch, the same height as an unmodified human female?

>>49727374
>So the Heralds have Molecular Acid-Bolts and Grav Land Raiders and Portcullis Mobile Void Shield Generators and Stasis Rockets?
Not necessarily. When laying out the Legion page I had weapons of mass destruction in mind (because at the level we're writing that's more notable), but if someone was to press the case that a particular Herald character needed some flashy piece of kit to put them over I wouldn't stand in the way.

>>49727485
Why does he have NOTfrostmorne?

>>49727518
She's standing on a rock? Or a wolf.

>>49727469
>>49727530
>Why frostmourne
Because people at GW played Warcraft 3, but realized having their ice-fur-frost-knight-sorcerers literally be Deathknights was going too far.

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>>49727518
When will they learn?

>>49727526

Those are all the Terran Archeotech Weapons mentioned as being part of the armory of the First Legion. And you seem to underestimate how powerful they are. Molecular Acid-Bolts can punch through even Power Armour as though it were paper, while Stasis Missiles freeze enemy combatants in place for short periods or even (On a big enough missile) turn an entire city into a snapshot.

>>49727564
I've tried to read the DA books like 5 times and I've gotten bored every fucking time

>>49727035
>Necron/Mordian- inspired Space Marines

Explain.

>>49727518
Manlet confirmed

>>49727564
>Green pauldrons on the Lion
Bitch please.

>>49726858
Which new guy?

>>49727581
Even on Terra, the Dark Angels and Heralds of Hektor fight in different campaigns. They expend and acquire different resources along the way.

And again, most of the campaign histories are not at a skirmish level. If someone wanted to write fiction from that perspective they might feel differently, but for my own part I find long fight scenes intensely boring no matter how many gadgets are involved.

>>49727126
More just the facepalm about having several people who are legit studied and/or experienced in tactics and/or strategy, yet asking the new guy for advice in that field.

>>49727745
Again, which new guy were you guys even talking about? There's been more than one new guy in this thread alone, and we've picked up half a dozen over the past few days.

>>49727855
I think that Vaguely is the "new guy" in question.

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>>49727895
Yup, and you're Lumey.

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>>49727931
This is me.

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>>49727745
There's nothing with getting a fresh pair of eyes to look over a problem-area, even if those eyes aren't experts regarding the area.

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>>49728045
*wrong

>>49728045
Nobody is objecting to you taking a look and saying what you think.

What we're rolling our eyes at is Mastodontii/Captain Copy-Pasta/Lore once again saying that we don't know what we're doing and need someone to come in and sort this out, when by his own admission he's been the most destructive presence in the project by repeatedly submitting plagiarised material and lying about it. He even went to the length of pretending to quit and coming back under a new name in an attempt to get more copy-pasted content into the project.

>>49728110
>plagiarised material
elaborate

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>>49728045
I swear to god, one day I'm going to make up a big warhammer 40k battlefield composition, like one of those ones they always have in the first few pages of the codices. It's going to be a bunch of space marines fighting tau or something, and with no explanation of reference to the fact, I'm going to have an ork with some blue pauldrons taped to his armor fighting alongside them.

>>49728110
Has that copypasta issue still not been resolved? People were arguing about that before I bounced out back in *April*.

>>49728110
>>49728173
Yeah, that shit happened, it was bad, he's not adding material (officially) anymore, can it be dropped, please?

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>>49728110

Who? What?!

>>49728220
It's a long and very old story at this point.

>>49728138
The Mastodontii were axed because they had large sections of material copy-pasted from the Forge World books.

There was an entire scene on a Traitor Conclave that was copied over and namechanged.

We still have copied material on battles in the Heresy, but it needs to be rewritten anyway.

I could go on but this makes people unhappy.

>>49728173
>>49728205
Aubrey has him writing the new Eternal Zealots stuff. Which, judging by history, means that we want to start thinking about a new original Traitor Legion.

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>>49728110
>Past plagiarism
Oooh, here's a story I haven't heard yet. Do tell! I'll make popcorn.

>>49728109
Man, keep it up, I'm saving half this stuff. Lets get more AdMech if you got it.

>>49728259
It's not really a very good story. There was a project contributor.

He turned out to have been copying text from Black Library books and from the Horus Heresy book series directly.

Things got heated. He apologized. He copied stuff again.

He left. Mostly. I guess now maybe he's back in some fashion, I'm not sure.

And that's basically all it is. Chewing over old bones won't be very helpful or productive.

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>>49728257
>Aubrey has him writing the new Eternal Zealots stuff. Which, judging by history, means that we want to start thinking about a new original Traitor Legion.

Double-Heresy!

>>49728257
And he's also not posting anything to the actual site, so that it can be peer-reviewed and double checked for said issues.

WOW I'm coming late

About to hop on the Crimson Eagles page.

Anything that I've missed of importance?

About using the lost legions for the GK/DW equivalents? The VII Legion? Major changes?

>>49728317
>he's also not posting anything to the actual site
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Terraine

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>>49728364
Oh. No.

Suddenly I have even more work to do.

>>49728364
Huh. Last I knew he was still putting everything on the discussion page so it could be checked over.

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>>49728364

Lumey, I don't know if you saw this question >>49725191 or not, but it's something I'm really interested in finding out about.

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>>49728364
>>49728404

That's a lot of stuff, is it all copy-pasted? Please no.

>>49728296
You're missing the bit where he came back under a new name. Copied stuff. Got very politely told that, as it was probably an honest mistake, he should just check over his work and remove the plagiarised material before asking someone to take a look again. He got rid of the example and said it was fine. I read through the next few paragraphs and pointed out more copy-pasta, at which point there was a long discussion about how this was totally unacceptable.

>>49728453
>I trusted Captain CopyPasta
>again
Well, there's your problem.

>>49728473
I did see it and I don't have strong feelings either way. If the Eyes are being disbanded then it's probably worth doing. If they're not, then I think I'd want to keep "The Untouchables" as an option for a Successor Chapter.

(that said, I might change my mind later)

>>49728500
I'm looking right now. If it is, I'll ask wikifag to ban him, because that shit's against the terms and conditions.

>>49728500
>That's a lot of stuff, is it all copy-pasted?
The first three or four times we went around this block with Captain CopyPasta, he refused to identify what was original material and what wasn't. His writing method in the past has been to mix up his sources and he often used relatively obscure texts.

My rule of thumb with his stuff is that if the writing is bad, it's probably original. Unfortunately, that doesn't get rid of the need for rewriting.

>>49728327
Guess not

>>49728521
Which begs the question, if you knew it was posted, and needed to be checked, why bring it up now and in this manner?

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>>49728521
>If the Eyes are being disbanded then it's probably worth doing. If they're not, then I think I'd want to keep "The Untouchables" as an option for a Successor Chapter.

What do you mean disbanded? And disbanded into what exactly? Their page has nothing on them being disbanded.

>>49728567
No, not really.

>>49728500
>>49728524
>>49728555
>>49728576
Okay, thus far I'm not seeing anything, but that doesn't mean much: The scholarly plagiarism checkers I've been using to search also didn't recognize it when I literally copy-pasted the opening few pages of the first Horus Heresy book into them, so it seems that GW material isn't in any of the systems I've been using (no huge surprise there).

I'll keep looking, but at first glance, I can't tell.

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>>49728259
>Lets get more AdMech if you got it.

Here's my best AdMech pic.

>>49728591
Cool.

So I had an idea but I'm not to confident in it.

What if the Crimson Eagles fall to Malal?

>>49728650
>Malal

Plz no.

It's a touchy issue for many people, and it's not necessary for anyone's story. It doesn't add anything to the narrative.

>>49728613
>>49728524
>Starting a witch hunt
Struck a nerve, huh?

>>49728567
I never answer those questions because I don't know what other people consider important.

>>49728576
I had no idea about this "peer-review" business, I just thought that Aubrey was doing something incredibly foolish and was going to look it over in due course. (If you look at the edit history of the EZ, you'll find me doing a first pass.)

But, as you probably know by now, if the Captain is around this project he's up to no good. You might not intend to help him by saying that we don't need to rehash this, but never the less that attitude is what allowed him to keep causing damage.

>>49728613
He's well aware that his plagiarism passes the scholarly versions and tried to use that to get people to accept the stuff. That particular identity was copy-pasting into the Crusaders until I caught on around May.

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>>49728650
>Malal
Uh, Y-Yeah, sure... Good idea, but maybe we should '''not'''

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>>49728650
Considering their democratic nature, I expected the Crimson Eagles to shatter with at least one warband going to each Chaos god.

>>49728683
Call it whatever you want, but plagiarism is going to be a major taboo among any group of creators, be they writers, artists, or whatever. There's a reason that plagiarism will get you fired in most academic jobs.

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Red alert folks, we have some definite plagiarism in the Eternal Zealots page.

>>49728650
...

Yeah, we'll just leave it at "nobody can do Malal justice to everybody's expectations, so we just leave it alone."

It's been brought up many, many times.

>>49728788
Could you be more specific?

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>>49728716

Khorne: (Adjective) Warhawks
Tzeentch: Something with owls
Nurgle: Crippled Eagles
Slaanesh: (Adjective) Raptors/ Raptors of (Adjective)

Lol

>>49728788
>>49728813
Scratch that, pretty sure it was a false positive. I used a plagiarism checker I've never tried before, because it seemed to have a much better variety of search parameters, but it also has an absurdly low trigger threshold. I'm going to run it through some more and see if I can track down the original source here.

>>49728853
>>49728788
If there's plagiarism happening, then there's plagiarism happening and it should be reported. If you have actual evidence.

Definitely don't want to jump the gun like that, it gives credence to the "Witchhunt" label. Do be careful before opening the drama-box.

>>49728850
>Crippled Eagles
Vultures, perhaps? Crows?

>>49728892
It's complicated. Running their stuff through the scholarly plagiarism checkers I usually use does nothing, as none of GW's material is in their databases. So, I use third party free plagiarism checkers, almost all of which lit up and claimed it was plagiarism, but none of which actually refer you back to the original source. Most don't have an option to see the source at all, and those that do just google it for you.

>>49728892
I'm not sure that it's really a witch hunt. We've known for ten days short of two years (!) that the Captain is a "witch". Josman is just doing a review of the material that (according to Sneaky) was meant to be reviewed anyway.

Reporting it to the site admin... well, I've never felt the need to go that far, but I'm not feeling any inclination to stop it happening either.

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>>49728972
>Vultures, perhaps? Crows?

Ha, that post was just a joke. The Crippled Eagles were an actual military group made up of Americans who fought in the Rhodesian Bush War.

>>49728850
I'd go with something about ravens or crows instead of owls myself.

>>49728853
Alright, you had canceled out a pretty decent spiel about that stuff.

>>49728685
I was going to say that he was waiting for us to check up on it. He's basically only posted a couple of things to House Accolon to accomodate the new EZ stuff and the rest of it was just talk and discussion pages.

I know how you feel about the plagiarism shit, and I also get that it's stuff we can't tolerate. But I'm also saying that his knowledge of the Lore and insights have also been helpful, even under his ban on contributions.

I also believe that we shouldn't jump to any conclusions on this, and we should check it first before jumping the gun, and to an outsider, it might seem like you're reacting to an oversight or minor annoyance by going thermonuclear and throwing some pretty major accusations.

>>49728972
Vultures could work.

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>>49728994
>>49728892
>Don't start a witch hunt
>Go easy on him.
No, fuck that. If someone might be plagiarising you go after them until you know, one way or another. Plagiarism is immoral, against Terms and Conditions on 1d4chan, and in a case like the one we're discussing that applies to copyrighted material, it's illegal. If you think it's happening, you find out, and if it is, you stop it and blacklist whoever did it. It's actually kind of shocking to me that you didn't ban him from the project as soon as you found out.

KHORNE HATES PLAGIARISM

HE HAAAAAAAAAATES IT

>>49729116
That dread looks fucking sick. Flying stealth dreadnoughts when?

>>49729121
If anyone wanted proof, I can link them to discussions in the archives. There's a nice exchange in the first round where he gets asked why he copy-pasted material into the Crusaders, says he didn't, and then gets given excerpts of the material he lifted.

>>49729134
People literally threatened to quit if I even brought it up in public the first time around and every time I've been told I'm over-reacting, causing drama, etc. Despite what people have been saying, I can't actually ban people from this project.

>>49728650
Go to the write faggery section and find Praise to Chaos on the wiki then toss some of them toward the unborn gods rather than going with malal.

>>49729194
I was there both times, actually.

And I'm saying we should be going into this calmly.

>>49729194
I'll also forward the info to a buddy of mine who has read and owns every book BL has come out with. Including the CS Goto shit.

>>49729194
>I'm over-reacting, causing drama, etc.
FUCKING WAT
Dude, in most groups of creators, plagiarism is seen as just about the worse thing you can do. In most academic jobs, plagiarism is a one strike you're out kinda deal. It's against the Terms of pretty much every creative site. Overreacting? Bullshit.

>You can't ban people.
Yes, but wikifag can, and if someone is violating the ToC by plagiarising, then you can report them.

>>49729257
See above. I don't know how many creative groups you've worked with before, but for most of them accusing someone of plagiarism is like accusing them of heresy (the original sense, not the comic EVERYTHING IS HERESY 40k sense).

>>49729208
Golden Tyrant and Ashen Mother really deserve some boys. Although Golden Tyrant might be Krenz.

>>49729257
My mood hasn't changed from exasperated.

>>49729286
I have felt the same way but as I said above we've been around this block a few times. If you want to see me fresh and firey on it, check out the archives http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/35658638 (I'm posting as M. Grenouille)

>>49729286
It's serious, but it's also one of those things that requires evidence. I doubt he'd be stupid enough to do it again, because that would legit be one of those "okay, we're done here," situations. But again, evidence. There's a reason I've been kicked out of jury selection.

Quick question since I'm a newfag.and also to move the topic away from plagiarism

When we write stuff are we responsible for putting it on the wiki, or is someone else responsible to ensure things don't messy.

>>49728678
>>49728697
>>49728813
I wasn't tracking that, but thanks for the direction.

I was just throwing out the idea.

>>49728716
>>49728850
The Crimson Eagles loyal to Caligor first and foremost wouldn't fall to chaos. Some time after the heresy there would be a civil war like the dispute of iron in which the legion would fall into Chaos Successors, Renegade mercenaries, and the OG Crimson Eagles who want to free Imperial Worlds from the Imperium, even if it costs those worlds

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Decision making time boys.

Is Voidwatcher's end game

A) sucking all the Black Augurs souls like Slaanesh over the millenia and then becoming a god.

Or

B) Tearing his way back out of the Warp as a Necrodermis Nagash

As Voidwatcher's original anon, I now lean towards the latter.

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>>49728259
>Lets get more AdMech if you got it.
I'm working on a Mechanicus+Entombed short story but I write slooooooooooow and edit slower.

>>49729383
>B) Tearing his way back out of the Warp as a Necrodermis Nagash
I like option but you're gonna need a reeaaaaaal good explanation for it happens.

>>49729383
Nagash nigga, is this even a question?

Also Augur/Eagle conflict after the Heresy?

>>49729353
>I doubt he'd be stupid enough to do it again
That's what I thought when he came back as Terraine/JE. But he did it anyway.

>>49729383
whynotboth.jpg

>>49729353
>I doubt he'd be stupid enough to do it again,
>do it again
>again
>AGAIN
>I know Mr. Jones is a sex offender, but we let him keep working at the daycare, because come on, would he be stupid enough to do it again?

Dude.

>>49729373
>wasn't tracking
Unless you've been following the thread for 2 years, you wouldn't be. Hell, I think I even suggested the IR be a Malal oriented Warband at one point or another.

>>49729383
Latter.

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>>49729383
Por que no los dos?

>>49729383
>Necrodermis

>In the Warp

>Where Necrons fear to tread

How, exactly, is this done?

>>49729445
I think it's more like he has to become necrodermis to enter realspace?

>>49729429
Lumey, I'm telling you, if you have solid evidence that this is the same guy who plagiarized earlier, report him to wikifag. He's breaking the ToC, he's dragging the project's reputation through the mud, and he's technically breaking the law. I haven't been on this boat for very long, so I haven't seen his origial misdeeds, or I'd report him myself, but if you have the evidence...

>>49729383
You can never have too much Nagash.

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>>49729445

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>>49729383
>Voidwatcher's original anon

Reveal yourself Primarch! Bloodseer and I want your opinion on these >>49718465
>>49718636.

Also, Bloodseer is now the primary writefag of the Augurs. You cool with that?

>>49729432
So, IR and CE, best bros, friendly rivals, bitter enemies?

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>>49729420
>>49729423
>>49729429
>>49729432
>>49729441
Both sounds good.

>>49729445
>>49729420
Well he's got his xenos weapon, which I always just saw as your run of the mill warscythe but maybe it's more than that. He's still got it when he gets tossed into the Warp after dueling Blood. The Necrodermis reacts, uh, violently to the effects of this. Ends up bonding with his body, but it's also what saves him from being consumed. Somehow soul sucking is involved, and after ten thousand years he's free. Queue crashing lightning and squealing guitars as he pulls himself out of some kind crazy ass warp rift.

Of course, this is all End Times stuff so it's kinda moot talking about it, but I just wanted to make a decision about it.

>>49729528
Does the soul sucking involve sacrificing all the Augurs

>>49729528
What cultures HAVEN'T been covered by the other legions?

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>>49729528
Yeah I'm in.

>>49729477
I agree with your points, but I don't do unilateral. If there's a majority of project people who want the guy reported then it wouldn't be hard to string him up, but the project's reputation is going to be what its members want it to be.

>>49729570
The Inuit. The Zulus. The Australian Aboriginals. The Jedi.

>>49729570
Not every culture needs a Legion, not every Legion needs a culture, IMO.

Some of ours riff off of other cultures, but several do not.

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>>49729509
Depends. How would Kilgore feel about a nihilistic, emotionally dead sociopath who believes civilization and any form of societal order is an abomination which prevents people from realizing their full potential, therefore wishes to destroy all of realspace to create a perfect universe of nothing but strife?

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>>49729591
This isn't about this project or this group. If the guy is breaking ToC and the law, he needs to go. Alright, then just refer me to his past misdeeds and I'll do it.

>>49729383
>>49729429
Im with the why not both.

>>49729499
I gave it last night. Here >>49718668 and here>>49718722

Also Im not really Primary, just been vocal.

>>49729562
I think the Soul Sucking affecting them could involve sacrifice and that's what was stopped in the duel, but now he's slowly doing it like Slaanesh. It give the Augurs a Dark Eldar feel and could lead to interesting alliances there. Also the Augurs could suck people's souls and be Soul Reavers.

>>49729636
Pretty sure the Law isn't gonna give two fucks about this.

>>49729636
Yall might wanna do that on SKype or IRC so that documents and citations can be shared.

Probably best not to burn out a thread with posts about that. And probably best to minimize any public drama, I think.

>>49729662
And yes, do that shit on IRC rather than crapping up this thread with bureaucracy.

>>49729570
Arabs? Persians? Africans? Canadians?

>>49729562
It was originally going to, but I guess he had to settle for the long game.

>>49729499
It's great, though I'm not 100% about dueling being their thing. Being the best one on one warriors maybe, but dueling specifically just sounds weird in my head. Also French. Isn't Lumey already French? I always pictured them kinda Teutonic, the Solar Warriors. Like a shiny version of the Black Templars.

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>>49729621
>who believes civilization and any form of societal order is an abomination which prevents people from realizing their full potential, therefore wishes to destroy all of realspace to create a perfect universe of nothing but strife?

Ultimate freedom. I could see Caligore eventually going full Heart of Darkness towards the beginning of the Heresy.

>>49729636
>just refer me to his past misdeeds and I'll do it.
That's basically the same as reporting the guy myself. And as far as I can tell from the non-committal noises here, the majority attitude is "don't make a fuss".

>>49729649
>I think the Soul Sucking affecting them could involve sacrifice and that's what was stopped in the duel, but now he's slowly doing it like Slaanesh. It give the Augurs a Dark Eldar feel and could lead to interesting alliances there. Also the Augurs could suck people's souls and be Soul Reavers

That's actually a pretty interesting angle. Especially given how they break up after the Heresy. (if they still do that in this new version) The Covens all kinda fuck off to do their own thing. I imagine most of them would be trying to acquire as many souls as possible, to stave off their own being drained or as pyramid scheme type thing going back to Void. Which itself kinda reminds me of the Hive from Destiny and how their Worm Gods work.

>>49729693
Well, Kurtz was a bit of an influence on the IR and Merrill from the get-go, with a bit of the mentality of both Kurtz and Martin Sheen's character in the opening scene.

Mix in a bit of Albert Camus, Tyler Durden, and the Joker, and that's what I was going for.

>>49729693
Evil Raptors are go?

>Heart of Darkness

Damn shame you've already got your heart set on American culture. I doubt anyone's ever had a Legion with Belgian overtones, lol. That'd sure be original.

>>49729722
If there is evidence, then convict. Done and done. Just make sure the evidence is solid, is my viewpoint on it.

>>49729661
>>49729676
Whether or not the law cares about this is irrelevant. It's not a matter of bureaucracy as you pout it, It's a matter of integrity, both personally and as a group. He shouldn't be here. I do agree that the clerical work should take place behind the scenes though, and as such...

>>49729591
See my above comments as to the moral side of the matter.

You want to post the relevant information on one of our 1d4chan userpages so I can collate it and present it to wikifag?

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>>49729687
>Being the best one on one warriors maybe, but dueling specifically just sounds weird in my head.

Dueling is pretty much the same as a one-on-one fight, it could be anything from two fancy guys shooting each other with flintlocks or sticking each other with rapiers. But it could also be closer to the Norse tradition of "making the square."

>Also French. Isn't Lumey already French? I always pictured them kinda Teutonic, the Solar Warriors. Like a shiny version of the Black Templars.

But if they're not French, then how will twirl their mustaches?

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>>49729722
My personal feelings are that we did have an issue with him, we resolved it with a ban on him actively contributing to anything for quite some time, and we are currently reviewing the shit he just posted. If it comes back dirty, then we do what's necessary. If not, we can have that discussion again.

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>>49729810
Fair enough on the first point. I guess I just mean less fencing and more one on one knight fighting. Less pretense/ceremony, more violence.

As for the second one, they only start twirling when they become the Augurs. Before that they stroke their mustaches.

>>49729822
This confuses the hell out of me. Some things you don't give people a second chance for. If a "creator" is plagiarizing, you fucking ban them. Look at the ToC of any creative site, I guarantee you'll find that plagiarism is against their ToC. If a professor plagiarizes in a paper, they can lose their tenure or get fired. If a scientist does that, they'll lose research grants. If a writer does that, good luck getting published. So why are you trying to pass this off as no big deal?

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>>49729765
>Damn shame you've already got your heart set on American culture. I doubt anyone's ever had a Legion with Belgian overtones, lol. That'd sure be original.

>>49729822
>My personal feelings are that we did have an issue with him, we resolved it with a ban on him actively contributing to anything for quite some time
That synopsis confuses me, because I'm not sure when you think the ban took place.

We had issues with him in early October 2014 and despite the matter being pretty thoroughly explained he continued editing and plagiarising until I put the heat on him the next month. There's a fairly long gap after that, then (after changing IP) he started editing again in March of this year. When I made contact with him, he claimed to be new and only admitted that he was the same old guy after plagiarism came up again in May. He never really stopped making edits after that, as you can see from the Terraine contribution history.

>>49729621
>"Whoa there son, I just wanna let people vote fer ther gov'ment officials and such. Don't gotta go crazy with it, now."

All joking aside he'd probably bust his balls for such an outlandish proposition. Caligor just wants to topple the Imperium and REMOVE XENOBAB

>>49729904
Oh, I would like to say I really like the Augurs more as psychically powered melee rather than straight up sorcerers and sneaking. Makes me picture Chaos Warriors.

>>49729907
*Disclaimer: Dates and Times may be somewhat misremembered*

Back in the day, people chose the path of forgiveness because we didn't all want to get into a giant shitfit. He did apologize the first time he was caught, and we accepted that. The second time he was caught people were pretty mad, but there was also *other* shit going on at the time, and a lot of the anons had left, so the rest of us were somewhat loathe to go to war amongst ourselves again.

Captain disappeared for a while, we thought shit was fine, then like Lumey says, he came back. Then he was gone again. If he's come back now, we will drive him off again. This is 4chan, nothing stops him from posing as a new anon *every week from here till forever* if he wants to.

Now, I don't think it's unusual for a bunch of people working on an unpaid project, alongside people they will never meet IRL, to not take plagiarism with the same "HERESY!" mindset as a group of college professors might.

So I agree with your sentiment, but I disagree that we need to be this riled up about it.

>>49729693
After his homeland gets nuked Caligor get real fuckin dark, until after the Emperor is struck down, then he becomes a little more focused

Also which spelling do ya'll prefer Caligore/Caligor?

>>49729810
>>49729904
To be fair, dueling as we know it did start with axes and longswords.

>>49729907
Most of your arguments also revolve around professional projects. In which case, I agree with you fully. This is most definitely not a professional setting, we're doing this for "poops and giggles." And the guy in question also provided a fuckton of background info and frames of reference from the original for us to base our decisions on. His value as a source of information and someone to just bounce ideas off was always much greater than his creative input.

>>49730015
Well, the idea was that he was never the most stable of individuals, and the events of the Crusade just kind of let things get progressively worse for his mindset. There was a bit of the Apocalypse Now/Heart of Darkness "going native" theme in there.

>>49730081
Your Primarch. But if you want to know more info on Merrill as an individual, read the wiki page
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Rogerius_Merrill

>>49729907
Who's plagiarizing.

>>49730034
>we didn't all want to get into a giant shitfit
I was quite happy to get into a giant shitfit. "Born and raised in a brair patch!"

>>49729984
I will say, though, if he pulls the "I can't help it" schtick again, I wash my hands of the matter entirely.

>>49730133
Fair enough, lol.

>>49730034
>>49730119
>>49730150
>>49730133
Look, If you guys who were collectively assfucked by him the first time around don't want to do anything about it, I can't really do anything either, because I don't have the proof I'd need unless you lot would provide it. Maybe I'm just bringing too much of my professional life into an informal context, but plagiarism is a capital sin for any creator. If he starts plagiarizing again, I'm reporting him to wikifag.

>>49730227
Who are we talking about?

>>49730261
You remember Captain Copypasta?

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>>49730261
The Many-Named-One: Mastadontii/Copy-Paste Captain/Lore.

>>49730261
See
>>49728257
>>49728317
>>49728364

>>49730293
I do not.

>>49730227
I just found out that the peer review story was made up. Give me a bit of time to get my sources together.

>>49730308
>>49730297
>>49730295
I remember Mastadontii.

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mfw drama instead of content

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>>49730313
You're doing the right thing.

>>49730354
Wouldn't be a Hektor Heresy thread without it!

>>49730406
At least it's happening for a good reason for once.

>>49730355
First off, this edit:
https://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=The_Crusaders&diff=246837&oldid=246238

It contains (at least) a good slice of text from Forge World's third book in the Hektor Heresy series, "Extermination". I'll quote passages from p61 to make it clear:
Page 61:
>As the Great Crusade progressed, the Imperial Fists rose high in honour and in the favour of the Emperor. Ever dependable, they were often used to reinforce flagging campaigns, to hold crumbling fronts and break deadlocked sieges. The Emperor also frequently called on both Dorn and his sons to fight beside him, bestowing this honour on the Imperial Fists more than on any other Legion. When the Imperial Host descended on Ophelia VII, the Emperor led the assault at the head of 100 Custodians and 10,000 Imperial Fists. Again at Askanisa, the Emperor called on not only Horus and the Luna Wolves, but Dorn and the Imperial Fists to form his vanguard in breaking the Shrouded Dynasties.
...
>High in favour and honour though they were, the Imperial Fists' status did not sit well with some of their brother-Legions. The animosity between the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors was well known, but Perturabo and his Legion were not alone in their resentment.
...
>It was, perhaps, this quality which caused the Emperor to pass over Dorn as Warmaster when he withdrew from the Great Crusade.
...
>But even as Horus took up the reins of the Great Crusade, Dorn was invested Praetorian of Terra. Even as Horus would push the Great Crusade on, the Imperial Fists would withdraw with the Emperor to Terra.